#emc | Logs for 2007-03-25

[00:00:43] <skullworks-PGAB> and hurco was so fond of using red/white twisted pairs for everything...
[00:00:51] <feoc> yeah tell me about it
[00:00:59] <feoc> lol
[00:01:13] <skullworks-PGAB> make lots of notes...
[00:01:28] <feoc> i did try that
[00:01:31] <skullworks-PGAB> you , or someone will need them someday
[00:01:57] <feoc> worked out better in the end to just take it all out then seperate all the wies and trace them all o whereever they go
[00:02:44] <feoc> iv been labeing things with a black marker pen
[00:06:21] <skullworks-PGAB> That KM3 I used to run is sitting there dead. - died about 2001
[00:06:39] <skullworks-PGAB> owned is content to use it to store vises on
[00:06:43] <skullworks-PGAB> owner
[00:07:13] <skullworks-PGAB> I want him to sell me it... but he keeps ducking the question
[00:07:44] <feoc> why wont he
[00:07:58] <skullworks-PGAB> so - I ordered an IH mill
[00:08:05] <skullworks-PGAB> I have no clue
[00:08:06] <feoc> seems a lot of space to be taken up by a otherwise useless machine
[00:08:35] <skullworks-PGAB> yup - and he gets to pay property tax on it as it sits...
[00:09:13] <skullworks-PGAB> but no - he's content to pay out for a non functional space hog.
[00:09:20] <feoc> ah well
[00:09:51] <feoc> just hope i can turn my non functional space hogs into somthig usefull
[00:10:13] <skullworks-PGAB> I'm betting the mill will work out
[00:11:07] <feoc> should do
[00:11:23] <feoc> the lathe should too its just a matter fo hoe much it coss
[00:11:25] <feoc> costs
[00:14:44] <feoc> oh before i go
[00:15:00] <feoc> dont suppose you know much about the relay board in the hurco ?
[00:15:13] <skullworks-PGAB> what about it/
[00:15:33] <feoc> or if i can find wiring diagram for it
[00:15:43] <feoc> or info on the 11 pin relays on it
[00:15:47] <skullworks-PGAB> Ice cubes
[00:15:56] <skullworks-PGAB> they are common
[00:16:08] <skullworks-PGAB> I might have the diagram in the next room
[00:16:17] <feoc> Ice cubes
[00:16:20] <feoc> ?
[00:16:22] <skullworks-PGAB> I have the KM3 book here
[00:16:47] <skullworks-PGAB> those relays are commonly called ice cubes
[00:17:43] <feoc> ah
[00:17:51] <skullworks-PGAB> 1 sec
[00:18:04] <feoc> does it have wiring diagrams foor the board itself ?
[00:18:52] <skullworks-PGAB> maybe
[00:19:24] <skullworks-PGAB> first I want to post a pic - make sure you have the same relay board
[00:20:12] <feoc> ill not be able to check properly till tommmorow
[00:20:17] <skullworks-PGAB> OK - mine only has 8 sockets
[00:20:30] <feoc> 8 relays ?
[00:20:34] <skullworks-PGAB> yep
[00:20:38] <feoc> :(
[00:20:53] <feoc> think mine has more
[00:21:20] <skullworks-PGAB> let me post a pic - see if it sparks your memory
[00:24:26] <feoc> ok
[00:27:34] <skullworks-PGAB> www.skullworks.net/include/DSCF0188.JPG
[00:27:46] <skullworks-PGAB> www.skullworks.net/include/DSCF0188.JPG
[00:28:08] <skullworks-PGAB> www.skullworks.net/include/DSCF0188.JPG
[00:28:23] <skullworks-PGAB> HERE www.skullworks.net/include/DSCF0188.JPG
[00:28:45] <feoc> no
[00:28:47] <feoc> thats tiny
[00:29:03] <feoc> the one in mine is quite big
[00:29:17] <skullworks-PGAB> ok guess my browser froze for a moment
[00:30:11] <feoc> thanks anyway tho
[00:30:24] <skullworks-PGAB> you could email hurco with the machines serial number - they might have a copy
[00:31:04] <feoc> migh do if needs be
[00:31:23] <skullworks-PGAB> ok - well sleep easy
[00:31:25] <feoc> got info on the motors by emailing the motor manufacurers
[00:31:42] <feoc> was good of em to raid the archives
[00:32:05] <feoc> gnight cheers for the help
[00:32:05] <skullworks-PGAB> great -sometimes you find a kind soul
[00:36:04] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:40:21] <jmkasunich> good night alex
[00:40:37] <skullworks-PGAB> nite
[01:51:44] <skullworks-PGAB> Anyone tried that new release of GCAM?
[01:52:04] <skullworks-PGAB> http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[02:36:41] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[03:51:54] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: fix jogs with the arrow keys being too fast by a factor of 60
[04:31:56] <Jymmm> anyone alive?
[04:32:03] <SWPadnos> nope
[04:32:06] <cradek> clearly lots of people are
[04:32:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:32:26] <Jymmm> I dind't ask if anyone was here, I ask if anyone was alive =)
[04:32:33] <toastydeath> i am alive!
[04:32:36] <toastydeath> IN MANY INTERESTING, UNIQUE WAYS
[04:32:42] <Jymmm> lol
[04:33:20] <Jymmm> Anyone know of a source of smaller sized spindles by chance? Dremel sized, but quality.
[04:33:29] <toastydeath> rpm range?
[04:33:37] <Jymmm> 0-20k
[04:33:43] <toastydeath> hmm
[04:33:46] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB is watching CAD/CAM training videos
[04:33:46] <toastydeath> can you deal with 50-60
[04:33:49] <Jymmm> ok, up to 20k
[04:33:51] <toastydeath> or maybe 30
[04:33:53] <toastydeath> hmm.
[04:34:02] <toastydeath> no can do, dude
[04:34:09] <toastydeath> all the spindles I know of that small are ultra high rpm
[04:34:13] <Jymmm> what did you have in mind? air?
[04:34:17] <toastydeath> yeah
[04:34:23] <Jymmm> url?
[04:34:24] <toastydeath> the spindles off of Moore jig grinders
[04:34:25] <toastydeath> on ebay
[04:34:28] <toastydeath> they're like 2000 bucks
[04:34:30] <skullworks-PGAB> NSK
[04:34:34] <skullworks-PGAB> zoooom
[04:34:42] <toastydeath> you can get em as low as 30
[04:34:46] <toastydeath> or as high as 175,000
[04:34:52] <toastydeath> 30,000
[04:34:54] <Jymmm> I'm think more along the 50 to 200 range
[04:34:57] <Jymmm> $
[04:35:00] <toastydeath> oh, no
[04:35:16] <cradek> I'd love to have a simple 30k spindle that holds 1/8 PCB bits
[04:35:37] <Jymmm> cradek: I was thinking up to 1/4"
[04:35:54] <Jymmm> skat bearings can do 30K iirc
[04:35:55] <Jymmm> ABEC7
[04:35:59] <cradek> that's an awfully big tool for 30krpm isn't it?
[04:36:17] <skullworks-PGAB> build a spindle housing - and use a trim router with belt or O-ring drive
[04:36:20] <Jymmm> my router does 25k
[04:36:28] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB no lathe
[04:36:38] <skullworks-PGAB> oh
[04:36:45] <Jymmm> OH!!!
[04:37:07] <Jymmm> I hit Lowes tonight, they have a belt worn CO2 supply for air tools
[04:37:19] <Jymmm> no compressor needed
[04:37:40] <skullworks-PGAB> those will freeze up under continous use
[04:37:51] <Jymmm> heh
[04:38:21] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB ex roommate was a paintball freak
[04:38:53] <Jymmm> is something liek this any good? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92007
[04:38:59] <skullworks-PGAB> ex roomy kept 2 fill stations in his room
[04:39:10] <toastydeath> jymmm: define "good"
[04:40:01] <Jymmm> toastydeath no runout, no bogging down, has enough torque, etc.
[04:40:14] <Jymmm> that TYPE, not that specific brand
[04:40:23] <skullworks-PGAB> uses lots of air - has high T.I.R. - goes fast (if you use an inline oiler).
[04:40:47] <Jymmm> TIR ?
[04:41:01] <toastydeath> jymmm: you're not going to find something that is accurate in your price range
[04:41:01] <toastydeath> for "new"
[04:41:03] <skullworks-PGAB> Total indicated run out
[04:41:35] <Jymmm> toastydeath wanna bet?
[04:41:50] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I suspect you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who will tell you anything from HF is "good"
[04:42:05] <SWPadnos> maybe "OK" or "passable", but not "good"
[04:42:10] <toastydeath> jymmm:
[04:42:10] <toastydeath> yes
[04:42:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos read my lips... <Jymmm> that TYPE, not that specific brand
[04:42:21] <skullworks-PGAB> I dunno - the drin snake I bought worked like a champ
[04:42:26] <skullworks-PGAB> drain
[04:42:33] <Jymmm> toastydeath it'll cost ya $200
[04:42:43] <toastydeath> lol.
[04:42:52] <toastydeath> i will break it
[04:43:02] <toastydeath> and i will bitch about the accuracy
[04:43:01] <SWPadnos> well, you can buy a cheapo hand sander or a Porter-Cable. are they the same type because they look similar?
[04:43:03] <toastydeath> for 200 bucks
[04:43:26] <skullworks-PGAB> dude find someone with a lathe
[04:43:31] <toastydeath> you cannot, cannot, cannot find an accurate spindle new
[04:43:33] <toastydeath> for 200 bucks
[04:43:42] <skullworks-PGAB> a homegrown spindle is easy
[04:43:42] <toastydeath> you can find something that is within what you want to do
[04:43:52] <SWPadnos> well, there's a guy who sells some on eBay that are supposed to be pretty good
[04:44:01] <toastydeath> "pretty good" in terms of what you want to do, sure
[04:44:08] <toastydeath> actually a precision spindle, no
[04:44:09] <skullworks-PGAB> then drive it with a sewing maching motor...
[04:44:10] <SWPadnos> I've never used them, so I can't comment from experience
[04:44:49] <skullworks-PGAB> 2 sets of skate bearings
[04:45:09] <Jymmm> ceramic
[04:45:11] <skullworks-PGAB> a Proxxon collet and nose
[04:45:19] <skullworks-PGAB> 8mm drill rod
[04:45:21] <SWPadnos> this guy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170091264234
[04:45:30] <skullworks-PGAB> matl for a pulley
[04:45:42] <Jymmm> toastydeath PAY UP SUCKER!
[04:45:51] <skullworks-PGAB> 2 8mm nuts'
[04:45:51] <toastydeath> that's uh, mediocre at best
[04:46:12] <ds3> what about that pro version of the dremel... usually used with a flex shaft?
[04:46:14] <toastydeath> i use lathes with .0001 TIR for roughing
[04:46:24] <SWPadnos> well, I'm pretty sure Jymmm won't be milling tool steel or titanium any time soon, so that spindle is probably fine for his purposes
[04:46:33] <ds3> toastydeath: and you grind on them too?
[04:46:37] <toastydeath> i don't
[04:46:38] <Jymmm> toastydeath oh go to your room!
[04:46:39] <toastydeath> just turn
[04:47:09] <ds3> since we don't know what diameter of work you do.... that TIR could just be what is barely acceptable ;)
[04:47:15] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170081057970&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=170091264234&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&usedrule2=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
[04:47:34] <toastydeath> ds3: it almost doesn't matter when you're discussing a spindle
[04:47:41] <Jymmm> cradek ^^^ 1/8" spindle
[04:47:48] <Jymmm> 60k
[04:47:49] <toastydeath> there are plenty of big bore lathes with low runout spindles
[04:48:01] <toastydeath> and there are plenty of small lathes with .0004
[04:48:04] <cradek> that looks like it would work really well for PCB milling
[04:48:10] <ds3> toastydeath: if you are working with 0.010 diameter parts, 0.0001 is just 1% run out... but if you are doing 1" parts....
[04:48:18] <cradek> looks like it could do 30k with simply a new pulley
[04:48:39] <toastydeath> ds3: TIR at the part
[04:48:42] <toastydeath> is not TIR in the spindle
[04:48:46] <ds3> ah
[04:48:54] <SWPadnos> or get your own motor ans use this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170081057970
[04:48:57] <SWPadnos> and
[04:49:21] <skullworks-PGAB> those would be fine for PCB milling and drilling
[04:49:38] <toastydeath> my deal is that when someone asks for a precision spindle, you have to quantify what your application is
[04:50:11] <toastydeath> versus saying "i need a precision spindle" and defaulting to your application as the standard
[04:50:21] <toastydeath> because some of us assume you'll be needing real precision =)
[04:50:48] <toastydeath> i.e. that Moore dealy off the G18
[04:50:59] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/TB-440AC-High-Speed-Precision-Spindle-25-000-rpm_W0QQitemZ170091264292QQcategoryZ57028QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[04:51:11] <skullworks-PGAB> toasty - well before you go nuts on a spindle - remember the rest of the machine has to work with it.
[04:51:21] <toastydeath> skullworks-pgab: i'm aware
[04:51:29] <ds3> hmmm 100K spindle... does that require major hearing protection?
[04:51:54] <skullworks-PGAB> if there is slop in the vertical movement T.I.R. won't matter as much
[04:52:01] <Jymmm> ds3 WHAT DID YOU SAY???????????????????????????????????????????
[04:52:07] <ds3> =)
[04:52:20] <SWPadnos> that would sound about like a TV
[04:52:27] <ds3> maybe Haas spindles are crappy but it is pretty damn loud with their stock spindle at 6K
[04:52:30] <SWPadnos> ~16 KHz
[04:52:34] <toastydeath> skullworks-pgab: again, this isn't a discussion about any machine, it's specifically spindle related
[04:52:40] <skullworks-PGAB> "Precise" brand spindles are quite.
[04:53:02] <SWPadnos> I noticed a few for sale. thought about getting one for my BP
[04:53:54] <Jymmm> Have you guys seen the engraving vending machine in walmart?
[04:54:12] <ds3> walmart engraving?
[04:54:32] <eric_u> too bad you can't rate the stupidity of ebay sellers
[04:54:38] <Jymmm> no it's a vending machine, takes dollar bills and engraves various pet tags while you wait
[04:54:48] <skullworks-PGAB> is that engraver imported from china?
[04:54:56] <skullworks-PGAB> or the tags
[04:54:58] <ds3> seen those at petco (or petsmart) but never at walmart
[04:55:15] <Jymmm> it's CNC, kinda cool but have to see all its details
[04:55:33] <Jymmm> s/have/hard/
[04:55:37] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB will stick to using laser - its quicker.
[04:56:25] <ds3> speaking of which, what's a good non-ebay place for a cheap laser?
[04:56:49] <SWPadnos> DoD
[04:56:53] <skullworks-PGAB> complete system or just an emitter/
[04:56:54] <SWPadnos> ;)
[04:56:54] <Jymmm> heh
[04:57:10] <ds3> emitter is fine
[04:57:26] <Jymmm> ds3 http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasercc2.htm
[04:57:47] <skullworks-PGAB> I don't know -but Keling is selling some cheap laser engravers
[04:57:47] <Jymmm> ds3 http://www.hackaday.com/2006/12/24/make-your-own-co2-laser/
[04:57:56] <ds3> seen those
[04:58:00] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB wattage?
[04:58:10] <skullworks-PGAB> 1 sec for link
[04:58:14] <Jymmm> k
[04:58:23] <ds3> don't feel like blowing a bunch of green at the crucible to learn glass blowing :/
[04:58:41] <skullworks-PGAB> http://www.kelinginc.net/LaserMachine.html
[04:58:42] <ds3> there is junktronix around here which I still need to call to see if they will see to me in person w/o ebay
[04:58:49] <Jymmm> ds3 I have the link at home they will sell it to you
[04:59:00] <ds3> Jymmm: in person?
[04:59:26] <ds3> cuz junktronix has some nice 1W 808 emitters
[04:59:39] <Jymmm> ds3 brand new
[04:59:54] <ds3> just need it to be "working"
[05:00:19] <ds3> aren't these keling ones the same as the import ones mentioned at CNC zone?
[05:00:45] <skullworks-PGAB> not sure - Keling does advertise there
[05:00:46] <Jymmm> looks like them
[05:01:04] <Jymmm> 60w for $5300
[05:01:08] <skullworks-PGAB> the LG1200 is a 60W
[05:01:15] <Jymmm> 500mmx300mm
[05:01:31] <skullworks-PGAB> I run a 60W
[05:01:40] <Jymmm> at home?
[05:02:01] <skullworks-PGAB> but we bought ours when laser was bleeding edge - with a price that made you bleed too
[05:02:15] <ds3> that sounds like that same stuff
[05:02:19] <Jymmm> 1200mm x 600mm $8400
[05:02:26] <skullworks-PGAB> think it cost $128K in 1990
[05:02:29] <Jymmm> all 60W
[05:02:41] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB eppilog?
[05:02:46] <ds3> skullworks: how long of a lifetime you get per tube?
[05:03:13] <skullworks-PGAB> Motorola 68000 CPU 8mb ram - used a full 6ft high 19" rack mount chassis
[05:03:28] <Jymmm> I found a 48" 60W for $8k
[05:03:37] <skullworks-PGAB> Nd-YAg - 400hrs per flash tube
[05:04:03] <ds3> that's red, isn't it?
[05:04:05] <skullworks-PGAB> water cooled
[05:04:14] <skullworks-PGAB> 1064Nm
[05:04:23] <skullworks-PGAB> beyond visable
[05:04:39] <ds3> how well does it do on polished metals?
[05:05:01] <skullworks-PGAB> all you see is a little plasma ball where the laser impacts the material
[05:05:02] <ds3> most people use CO2's at 10um
[05:05:26] <skullworks-PGAB> Chrome Zippo's done all the time
[05:05:49] <skullworks-PGAB> Them BiG Ass Rodeo belt buckles too
[05:06:06] <ds3> what's the typical penetration on things?
[05:06:34] <skullworks-PGAB> I don't mess with that machine much anymore - trained the secretary to do it.
[05:06:42] <skullworks-PGAB> 'not much
[05:06:51] <skullworks-PGAB> its mainly an et5cher
[05:07:09] <skullworks-PGAB> I have cut copper foil
[05:07:20] <skullworks-PGAB> cut traces on a PCB
[05:07:26] <ds3> 2.7W for $200
[05:07:39] <ds3> nice... so at least 5-10 mils capable
[05:08:30] <skullworks-PGAB> I guess - I just loop the program if it doesn't cut thru on 1 pass
[05:08:50] <skullworks-PGAB> BTW - I also play music with it
[05:09:03] <ds3> so I guess copper pouring is a good thing? ;)
[05:09:40] <skullworks-PGAB> has a "Q" switch - I can program freq between 1 and 32KHz
[05:09:53] <skullworks-PGAB> or 0
[05:10:05] <skullworks-PGAB> which is constant wave mode
[05:10:29] <skullworks-PGAB> good for lighting cigarets
[05:11:31] <ds3> is there any special cooling for the 100% duty cycle mode?
[05:11:58] <skullworks-PGAB> not on mine
[05:12:09] <skullworks-PGAB> its on 100% anyway
[05:12:09] <ds3> very nice...
[05:12:11] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: give the axisui hal pins correct initial settings
[05:12:18] <ds3> the CO2's want water cooling
[05:13:05] <skullworks-PGAB> lamp current gets reduced during power save mode but its on - it just does not come out due to the shutter being closed
[05:13:56] <skullworks-PGAB> lamp uses 10 to 22.5 amps @ 400V
[05:14:46] <skullworks-PGAB> yes it sucks power for only 60W ouput
[05:15:12] <ds3> how is the beam directed?
[05:16:00] <skullworks-PGAB> beam goes thru a beam expanding lense group which makes it about 8mm dia
[05:17:26] <skullworks-PGAB> then it hits a pair of mirrors which are on Galvos which direct the beam thru a second lense which brings the beam back to a .1mm max dia.
[05:18:12] <skullworks-PGAB> without the beam expander the mirors would be toast in under a minute
[05:18:31] <skullworks-PGAB> as is they get quite hot
[05:19:15] <toastydeath> sizzle sizzle
[05:19:34] <skullworks-PGAB> BTW this is the same model laser that Mag industries used on there flashlites
[05:20:21] <skullworks-PGAB> I bet they use different equipment now
[05:20:56] <ds3> Hmmmm
[05:21:10] <skullworks-PGAB> Baasel LBI-60
[05:21:32] <skullworks-PGAB> Company was bought out lately by Rofin Sinar
[05:27:34] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/control.c: fix stupid bug that forced all jogwheels to operate in velocity mode
[05:40:07] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/command.c: print a message if an attempted jog aborts homing
[06:00:43] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (command.c control.c mot_priv.h motion.c): backport jogwheel velocity mode
[07:02:43] <Jymmm> can't find a belt/disc snader with cast iron table/disc =(
[08:10:11] <martinlundstrom> Hello everyone.
[08:10:26] <martinlundstrom> Dallur: Are you around?
[08:41:00] <renesis> heheh, ima machine a kittystab
[08:42:27] <renesis> (like, little kitty head shaped 2-finger brass knuckles, eyeball fingerholes, with ear spikies, so girls can protect themselves and have cute keychain things, simultaneously)
[10:33:50] <anonimasu> hello
[10:34:02] <anonimasu> renesis: cute..
[10:35:05] <anonimasu> though arent thoose illegal?
[12:17:00] <anonimasu> hm
[12:20:03] <robin_sz> and .. while we are onthe topic ;)
[12:20:40] <anonimasu> ?
[12:20:48] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:20:48] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-03-25.txt
[12:20:56] <robin_sz> generally speaking, the best defence is not being there :)
[12:21:28] <anonimasu> robin_sz: oh, you dont always get that option
[12:21:28] <robin_sz> the first two rules of self defence:
[12:21:36] <robin_sz> 1) dont be there in the first place
[12:21:38] <robin_sz> 2) run
[12:22:01] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I saw some movie that talked about slasking molestors with your carkeys/creditcard in the face then run away..
[12:22:16] <anonimasu> I cant remember where I saw that..
[12:22:18] <anonimasu> maybe on television
[12:22:29] <robin_sz> probably stupid advice to be honest
[12:22:56] <anonimasu> running away is a sure bet..
[12:23:26] <robin_sz> if it doesnt physically disable them from coming after you, it probably just annoys them ehough to want to harm you real bad
[12:23:49] <robin_sz> rule 3 is of course "make sure they are sorry they ever even set eyes on you" :)
[12:24:03] <anonimasu> heh, that's very hard in practice..
[12:24:32] <robin_sz> can be
[12:33:20] <feoc> hello
[13:28:45] <anonimasu> how long time should booting the livecd take?
[13:31:35] <mschuhmacher> it takes 2 minutes on my P4 2000
[13:32:12] <mschuhmacher> on my PII 233 it takes 10 minutes
[13:32:21] <anonimasu> my box dosent boot :/
[13:32:29] <anonimasu> it's a P3 1.2
[13:32:32] <anonimasu> err p4
[13:33:00] <anonimasu> intel i845e chipser
[13:34:41] <anonimasu> it locks up when X is loading
[13:35:08] <mschuhmacher> can you start the ram-test
[13:35:33] <anonimasu> it's done in 30 secs.
[13:35:37] <anonimasu> 74% done..
[13:35:51] <anonimasu> it's a p4 celeron 1.6 actually
[13:36:16] <anonimasu> it looks like there's something wrong with the cd..
[13:36:15] <mschuhmacher> do you have tested the cd for errors
[13:36:18] <mschuhmacher> ?
[13:36:25] <anonimasu> bit it completes the scan..
[13:36:41] <anonimasu> but..
[13:36:45] <anonimasu> 95% done
[13:37:25] <anonimasu> how does memtest work?
[13:37:33] <anonimasu> it should read "pass 1" when you've run it right?
[13:37:51] <mschuhmacher> you canrun it overnight
[13:37:54] <jepler> anonimasu: it writes a known pattern of data to memory, then reads it again
[13:38:22] <anonimasu> mschuhmacher: I dont see why it should break..
[13:38:23] <mschuhmacher> it writes values to the RAM and compares the result
[13:38:27] <anonimasu> yeah..
[13:38:41] <jepler> anonimasu: it looks something like this when running: http://www.memtest.org/pics/i875-big.gif
[13:38:47] <anonimasu> jepler: got any good idea? it looks like it starts x then loads loads loads loads
[13:38:51] <anonimasu> like a read error on the cd..
[13:39:04] <anonimasu> yep
[13:39:07] <anonimasu> but it
[13:39:11] <anonimasu> it's a new cd that I just burned
[13:39:21] <anonimasu> and I checked the md5 before writing..
[13:39:30] <anonimasu> and verified the disc..
[13:39:40] <jepler> try booting in "safe video mode"
[13:39:42] <anonimasu> then checked the integrity of it on the machine
[13:39:46] <anonimasu> that's what im doing
[13:39:54] <anonimasu> x starts..
[13:40:00] <anonimasu> I get to the screen with nautilus and stuff
[13:40:02] <anonimasu> then nothing more
[13:40:05] <jepler> beats me then
[13:40:36] <anonimasu> maybe I need another graphics card.
[13:40:43] <anonimasu> or fresh cd..
[13:40:53] <anonimasu> *grasping for air*
[13:42:00] <anonimasu> it passed the test twice now
[13:42:04] <anonimasu> no errors..
[13:42:18] <jepler> have you booted any version of ubuntu on this machine before?
[13:42:49] <anonimasu> no..
[13:43:07] <jepler> you could try the official cd instead of the linuxcnc version, if you have free bandwidth
[13:43:37] <anonimasu> can you turn off the splash?
[13:43:48] <anonimasu> I have a copy somewhere
[13:45:41] <jepler> yes -- if you hit F6 you can edit the commandline to remove "quiet" and "splash"
[13:50:00] <anonimasu> ok
[13:50:05] <anonimasu> it looks allright.
[13:50:29] <anonimasu> it starts gdm..
[13:52:49] <anonimasu> never ever rock a cd reader.
[13:52:50] <anonimasu> :D
[13:53:26] <anonimasu> 10 minutes until I have a normal ubuntu
[13:53:38] <anonimasu> jepler: is the axis display a separate widget?(the preview)
[13:54:30] <jepler> anonimasu: it is not written in a way that it is easily separable from the rest of axis
[13:54:45] <anonimasu> that's too bad
[13:55:03] <jepler> patches welcome
[13:55:18] <jepler> * jepler wanders off to make breakfast
[13:59:39] <anonimasu> how much memory do you need for the livecd?
[14:01:38] <mschuhmacher> I started it with 160 MB but not the current version
[14:02:02] <mschuhmacher> I think 256 should suffice
[14:04:10] <anonimasu> ok
[14:04:20] <anonimasu> I cant remember how much ram I have in this box..
[14:04:36] <mschuhmacher> If you have not enough RAM, you can test the Puppy-Linux EMC-Live
[14:04:41] <mschuhmacher> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[14:04:55] <anonimasu> 128
[14:04:56] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[14:05:02] <anonimasu> oh not a big deall
[14:05:08] <anonimasu> I can go to work and fetch a spare stick..
[14:19:18] <jepler> it's too bad the livecd doesn't warn you about inadequate RAM
[14:23:26] <anonimasu> shit.
[14:23:28] <anonimasu> it's rdram.
[14:23:35] <anonimasu> no
[14:23:36] <robin_sz> or .. use a CDRW and have a swap partiton on cdrw ;)
[14:23:47] <anonimasu> the new kind of sdram..
[14:24:01] <robin_sz> a new machine with only 128?
[14:24:07] <robin_sz> weiiiiird
[14:24:15] <robin_sz> 1gb is a minimum
[14:26:29] <ejholmgren> ?!
[14:26:54] <ejholmgren> blasphemy ... who's trying to sell that?
[14:27:17] <robin_sz> well, I suppose mroe would be usefu;
[14:29:20] <robin_sz> when you look at hte cost of ram, the cost of CPU speed, the cost of faster disks ...
[14:29:44] <robin_sz> you get more performance with a slightly slwoer CPU and a bit more ram ...
[14:30:11] <SWPadnos> he's already got 1 Gb
[14:30:18] <SWPadnos> I guess he needs more like 1 GB
[14:30:36] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, nope, he said 128mb
[14:30:57] <SWPadnos> actually, he just said 128 :)
[14:31:03] <robin_sz> thats painfully inadequate on a new box
[14:31:08] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[14:31:10] <SWPadnos> indeed
[14:31:22] <SWPadnos> and RDRAM is painful anywhere
[14:31:34] <robin_sz> it is?
[14:31:39] <robin_sz> expensive?
[14:31:47] <anonimasu> robin_sz: stop whining
[14:31:50] <anonimasu> this isnt a new box.
[14:31:53] <SWPadnos> yeah - didn't Intel stop using it?
[14:32:04] <anonimasu> it's DDR pc2100
[14:32:08] <SWPadnos> and rambus is mostly out of business or something ...
[14:32:21] <SWPadnos> ok. DDR is much easier to find. RDRAM isn't
[14:32:28] <anonimasu> rdram is easy too..
[14:32:31] <anonimasu> but not _here_ and now
[14:32:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:32:36] <anonimasu> need to go to work and look..
[14:32:42] <robin_sz> you can use the faster PC2700 afaik
[14:32:46] <robin_sz> or 3200
[14:33:10] <anonimasu> I have neither.
[14:33:56] <robin_sz> its so cheap now, we basically went through the PCs at home and work, slung out the various small sticks and made them all 1gb ... it was a good and useful performance upgrade for minimal cash
[14:34:46] <anonimasu> hm
[14:34:55] <anonimasu> I think I have a 256 in the router at work..
[14:38:02] <robin_sz> the going rate seems to be 30 eur for a 512mb stick
[14:38:26] <anonimasu> Yeah, But I just dont have any..
[14:38:32] <anonimasu> even if they are free it dosent help me.
[14:38:47] <anonimasu> brb
[14:53:57] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[14:54:02] <anonimasu> what a pain.
[15:19:38] <skunkworks> join emc-devel
[15:19:49] <skunkworks> oops
[15:50:16] <anonimasu> yay
[15:50:20] <anonimasu> now with more memory..
[15:50:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu upgraded to 512
[15:50:33] <anonimasu> * anonimasu upgraded to 512
[16:01:27] <mschuhmacher> anonimasu:does it work?
[16:02:17] <anonimasu> it booted further
[16:02:23] <anonimasu> but my good disc is ruined..
[16:02:31] <anonimasu> so I'm going to record a ubuntu..
[16:02:34] <anonimasu> and just install packages
[16:31:11] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bad_Jokes_and_Other_Deleted_Nonsense/ASCII_cows
[16:32:15] <anonimasu> *sigh
[16:32:21] <anonimasu> no luck with ubuntu
[16:32:35] <anonimasu> checking the cd now
[16:38:17] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL0u2jLpVuE
[16:41:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: cute
[16:43:50] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfmbblWDLh0
[16:59:03] <feoc> anyone know about GE motor relays ?
[16:59:26] <feoc> my hurco is filled with CR305BO relays
[16:59:35] <feoc> trying to find wiring details
[17:00:43] <feoc> hey skullworks-PGAB
[17:02:15] <skullworks-PGAB> hey back
[17:03:24] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB just found a huge ESD bag of L298N chips in his mailbox :]
[17:05:26] <feoc> been working on the hurco today
[17:05:55] <feoc> but not getting the power pbu light on the servomate
[17:06:26] <skullworks-PGAB> just doing cleanup or under power?
[17:06:32] <feoc> so checed the power and its not getting any on the main feed line(servomte ha too)
[17:06:47] <feoc> has two iput feeds even
[17:06:58] <skullworks-PGAB> Your in the UK?
[17:07:04] <feoc> traced it back and the power goes to a relay
[17:07:07] <feoc> yeah i am
[17:07:17] <feoc> via big coil
[17:07:36] <feoc> its a GE CR305BO relay
[17:07:47] <skullworks-PGAB> The land that has a fuse for everything... (actually a smart system)
[17:08:14] <feoc> so if were to apply 115 v to the relay that would start it up no ?
[17:09:15] <feoc> seems to be filled with a string of ever growing relays
[17:09:21] <skullworks-PGAB> OK the Hurco uses both panal buttons to start the amp
[17:09:42] <skullworks-PGAB> WMain disconnect on;
[17:10:00] <feoc> yah but i dont have any panels lol
[17:10:07] <skullworks-PGAB> power on (far right button)
[17:10:23] <skullworks-PGAB> consol is allready gone?
[17:11:04] <feoc> yup
[17:11:04] <skullworks-PGAB> hmmm
[17:11:04] <feoc> didnt do anyhing
[17:11:11] <skullworks-PGAB> thats a latching relay - not sure how to trigger it otherwise
[17:11:23] <feoc> hmm
[17:11:38] <feoc> well it has a red white twiste pair goingto it
[17:11:49] <feoc> and its a 115v coil
[17:12:14] <skullworks-PGAB> only requires a momentary closed to fire up
[17:12:29] <feoc> ah right
[17:12:46] <skullworks-PGAB> you have a 110-120V source in the cabnet?
[17:12:54] <feoc> yes
[17:13:26] <feoc> has 2 coils in the cabinet
[17:13:32] <feoc> and a coil outisde
[17:13:44] <feoc> outside coil does 415v to 220
[17:14:02] <feoc> the inners do 220 to 115
[17:14:03] <skullworks-PGAB> transformer - or the power "conditioner"
[17:14:45] <feoc> one of the coils (slightly smaller one) is linked up hard wire
[17:14:49] <skullworks-PGAB> are you running off 220 direct?
[17:15:01] <feoc> no 415
[17:15:26] <skullworks-PGAB> nice to have high V available
[17:15:34] <feoc> the bigger one feeds the servo and has that relay between the 220v and the coil
[17:16:12] <feoc> high V scares me
[17:16:23] <skullworks-PGAB> that latching relay powers the servo amp - but is also part of the E-stop chain
[17:16:49] <feoc> yeah it has 2 115v wires either side
[17:16:58] <feoc> one would be on and the other off
[17:17:49] <skullworks-PGAB> E-stop must be (open?) to work. (I honestly don't remember if E-stop is open or shorted on the Hurco system)
[17:18:53] <feoc> Each CR305 contactor is furnished with a normally open auxiliary
[17:18:54] <feoc> contact for use as a holding interlock in three-wire control circuits
[17:19:23] <feoc> no estops are connected at the momet
[17:20:09] <skullworks-PGAB> when E-stop is active it dumps all the power it the servo power supply into some sort of load, drains the Cap in like 1.25 sec or less.
[17:21:03] <skullworks-PGAB> I would want to rig a deadmans E-stop switch while testing...
[17:21:04] <feoc> the only things connected are the main voltage feeds
[17:21:22] <feoc> yeah i will
[17:21:32] <feoc> im just trying to get the stuff powere up first
[17:21:42] <feoc> if it goes horribly wrong ill ill main power
[17:21:50] <feoc> standing right next too it
[17:21:59] <skullworks-PGAB> good
[17:22:45] <feoc> oh yeah what does the cant follow joint 0 error mean?
[17:23:03] <feoc> on emc
[17:23:56] <jepler> feoc: it means that the requested position and the attained position of "joint 0" (the X axis on a traditional 3 or 4 axis mill) were too far apart
[17:23:58] <SWPadnos> do you mean "following error on joint 0" ?
[17:24:31] <jepler> feoc: in a stepper system, it means you've misconfigured emc. on a servo system, it can also mean that the servo amp has failed.
[17:24:59] <feoc> yeah that woul make sense
[17:25:03] <feoc> servo amp isn on
[17:25:15] <feoc> :)
[17:25:15] <feoc> right ill be back later
[17:51:15] <anonimasu> iab
[17:51:16] <anonimasu> hm
[17:54:18] <anonimasu> box is installed now
[18:13:51] <anonimasu> When homing can you turn off the go to zero after homing?
[18:14:36] <SWPadnos> I think the only way to turn that off is to not use a HOME_OFFSET
[18:14:42] <SWPadnos> but I'm not positive about that
[18:16:15] <anonimasu> that's a scary thing..
[18:16:49] <SWPadnos> well, the definition of homing is going to home position, so it makes sense to do that
[18:17:15] <anonimasu> homing means setting the coordinate system(machine) to whatever the home offset is..
[18:17:54] <SWPadnos> ok - "aligning physical and software corrdinate systems"
[18:19:34] <jepler> anonimasu: do you have home switches?
[18:21:17] <anonimasu> jepler: I will the day after tomorrow
[18:21:45] <jepler> anonimasu: so you want the position at the end of the homing sequence to be the same as the position of the switch?
[18:22:27] <jepler> if so, I think in that case you want HOME (position to go to) to be the same as HOME_OFFSET (location of the switch)
[18:22:28] <anonimasu> jepler: I dont want emc to move my machine from the homing position to the machine zero position
[18:23:20] <anonimasu> but I'd like to have my offset/home position at another place..(center of table as example..
[18:24:34] <jepler> you've looked at the diagrams here? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/index.html
[18:24:53] <anonimasu> no, I were just looking for a doc :)
[18:25:40] <skullworks-PGAB> Center of table... Okuma style.
[18:26:13] <anonimasu> or well where my fixture zero ends up as when I'draw parts..
[18:26:42] <skullworks-PGAB> when you home a machine your defining G53
[18:27:10] <skullworks-PGAB> the set a offset in G54 to tell where your fixture is.
[18:27:22] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:27:39] <anonimasu> then it shouldnt really matter..
[18:27:45] <skullworks-PGAB> yep
[18:28:05] <anonimasu> though I'd still like the option to have the coordinate system be zero at the center of the table..
[18:28:09] <anonimasu> without moving there..
[18:28:11] <skullworks-PGAB> it could be really stupid and scary like on Okuma lathes...
[18:28:33] <anonimasu> that dosent mean that I want to go there either way.. ;)
[18:28:48] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, "absolute" coordinates shouldn't have to change. there are like 9 coordinate offset systems available
[18:28:54] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: I can imagine the crashes..
[18:29:01] <skullworks-PGAB> X/Z0 is the far left corner of the machine casting...
[18:29:31] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: also, does the last coordinate system get saves?
[18:29:34] <anonimasu> saved?
[18:29:38] <SWPadnos> in fact, if you change what true zero means, you also have to change MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT, since the soft limits are relative to "machine zero"
[18:29:40] <anonimasu> if I kill emc/poweroff..
[18:30:17] <SWPadnos> in later versions, position is saved, but I'm not sure about coordinate system (though that would make sense since poisition is pretty useless without knowing which coordinate system it's for)
[18:30:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:30:42] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: so is there a table, that you can store your offsets in?
[18:31:03] <skullworks-PGAB> if you power off - even if the G54 is saved - machine may be off by what ever repeatable amount off error when re-homing the machine.
[18:31:07] <SWPadnos> AXIS does it, I think. I'm not sure if it's in the GUI or the underlying EMC system though
[18:31:37] <skullworks-PGAB> unless you have encoders with an index channel
[18:31:45] <anonimasu> but I do :)
[18:31:57] <skullworks-PGAB> then homing will be very repeatable.
[18:32:13] <skullworks-PGAB> and power off won't be an issue
[18:33:26] <anonimasu> nice
[18:34:20] <anonimasu> actually what machine position is is never interesting..
[18:34:31] <anonimasu> it's always the offset that is..
[18:35:28] <jmkasunich> anonimasu: I wasn't around for the first part of the discussion... but what you seem to want is easy to do
[18:35:53] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: I guess it's not a issue, ignore what I said..
[18:35:58] <skullworks-PGAB> I often use G53 moves for tool change position when I have large fixtures that would be in the way.
[18:36:04] <anonimasu> that's what I want..
[18:36:15] <jmkasunich> if you want zero in the middle of the table, and the switch is 10" away, you can set home_offset to 10"
[18:36:18] <anonimasu> only use machine coordinate system for toolchanges and stuff..
[18:36:33] <jmkasunich> if you also set home = 10" then the machine won't move after finding the switch
[18:36:44] <anonimasu> ah, that's nice
[18:37:12] <jmkasunich> or you can set home=9.95" if you just want to move off the switch a littel bit, etc
[18:37:16] <jmkasunich> whatever you prefer
[18:37:27] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:38:13] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: I heard robin say something that there was some way to inject commands to the interp is that true?
[18:38:31] <jmkasunich> I dunno, I don't know much about the interp
[18:38:32] <anonimasu> sorry is im hopping between subjects fast ;)
[18:38:41] <jmkasunich> do you mean MDI mode?
[18:38:44] <anonimasu> no
[18:38:48] <jmkasunich> that sends commands to the interp...
[18:38:51] <anonimasu> for doing toolchanges
[18:39:02] <anonimasu> I'm not keen on using the hal stuff to fake motion.
[18:39:07] <jmkasunich> oh, you mean movement during a toolchange
[18:39:11] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:39:35] <jmkasunich> you won't be able to use the interp
[18:39:57] <jmkasunich> as far as the interp is concerned, its right in the middle of a command (the M6), so it can't be processing additional commands
[18:41:21] <anonimasu> hm, so, how do you do it?
[18:42:37] <anonimasu> *looking at the wiki*
[18:42:49] <anonimasu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ToolChangerImplementation
[18:42:54] <jmkasunich> depends on the machine
[18:43:13] <jmkasunich> there is a tool change position that the machine can be told to go to prior to the change
[18:43:36] <jmkasunich> but that doesn't help much for a rack type toolchanger (where the machine moves from slot to slot to pick up the right tool)
[18:43:45] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:45:15] <anonimasu> well, if that kind of stuff mentioned in the wiki works..
[18:45:17] <skullworks-PGAB> I prefer to define my own location as a G00 move the line before the M6.
[18:45:29] <anonimasu> yeah.. the safe height..
[18:45:37] <anonimasu> or well retract height..
[18:45:42] <anonimasu> that's pretty standard.. :)
[18:46:08] <anonimasu> if you can use a G-code macro for the toolchanging
[18:46:18] <anonimasu> you can even use the TXX as offset for each tool..
[18:46:22] <skullworks-PGAB> This because most of the early machines I used were CNC knee mills and you had to find a spot that gave enough clearence.
[18:46:58] <skullworks-PGAB> like between 2 vises
[18:47:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[18:47:17] <skullworks-PGAB> or centered over a T-slot
[18:48:48] <skullworks-PGAB> Thats one think I will really like on my X3 - being a table top "bed mill" I won't have clearance issues.
[18:49:07] <anonimasu> the machine I'm doing toolchanging on has a long Z axis..
[18:49:15] <anonimasu> so clearance isnt a issue :)
[18:49:21] <skullworks-PGAB> nice
[18:50:52] <anonimasu> I found out that I need a toolchanger badly
[18:51:03] <anonimasu> all parts need more then one tool :)
[18:51:07] <anonimasu> all I make :D
[19:04:33] <skullworks-PGAB> what kind of spindle/
[19:04:35] <skullworks-PGAB> ?
[19:19:37] <anonimasu> a homebrew one
[19:19:43] <anonimasu> bbl
[19:19:46] <anonimasu> going to rest
[19:19:51] <skullworks-PGAB> k
[19:27:36] <feoc> ola
[19:28:24] <skullworks-PGAB> "When the XY-plane is selected, program G2 . . ."
[19:28:46] <skullworks-PGAB> "The axis words are all optional except that at least one of X and Y must be used."
[19:29:16] <skullworks-PGAB> ???? Why did they do this? ? ? ?
[19:29:38] <skullworks-PGAB> G03 i-.5 should be a valid command.
[19:30:18] <feoc> got the servomate running
[19:30:32] <skullworks-PGAB> Cool!
[19:30:46] <feoc> they went nuts before i connected the tachos
[19:31:25] <skullworks-PGAB> I may have to set my post process to output all coordinates for all moves to get this.
[19:31:35] <skullworks-PGAB> tachs - I bet!
[19:32:06] <feoc> once i connected em up i was able to control he motors usin a 6v batt on the signal inputs
[19:32:38] <skullworks-PGAB> neat - and just swap polarity for direction?
[19:32:42] <feoc> yeah
[19:32:55] <skullworks-PGAB> how fast @ 6v?
[19:33:12] <feoc> fairly fast actually
[19:33:15] <anonimasu> :)
[19:34:31] <skullworks-PGAB> is your manual draw bar ? tool change buttons working?
[19:34:40] <feoc> only prob im getting is the Y axis seems to creep slightly
[19:35:22] <skullworks-PGAB> thats just a trim pot tuning issue - by the LED's on each axis card
[19:35:31] <feoc> manual draw bar ?
[19:35:33] <anonimasu> mine?
[19:35:42] <anonimasu> yeah it's a manual drawbar for now
[19:35:58] <skullworks-PGAB> doesn't it have a released button?
[19:36:15] <feoc> skullworks-PGAB: yeah thought that might be the case might have gotten knocked
[19:36:17] <anonimasu> I didnt find any retainer grippers when I made the drawbar..
[19:37:58] <skullworks-PGAB> anonimasu; Sorry - was refering to feoc's Hurco
[19:38:04] <skullworks-PGAB> Bed mill
[19:38:18] <skullworks-PGAB> BIG BED mill
[19:38:32] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Pzk-TyMSQ
[19:38:48] <skullworks-PGAB> I'd guess about 4 tonnes
[19:39:36] <feoc> the hurco?
[19:39:41] <feoc> about 3 ton i think
[19:39:51] <roltek> anonimasu there's a couple of ways to do tool changer the easy one is pick and place with subprogram's for each position
[19:39:56] <feoc> 3 1/2 maybe
[19:40:42] <roltek> if you have enough room on your table
[19:44:34] <feoc> bbl
[19:44:46] <skullworks-PGAB> Alex - I think you must have spent too much time lately stairing at "C" code source...
[19:45:06] <alex_joni> skullworks-PGAB: in my own defence I didn't find it myself :P
[19:45:26] <skullworks-PGAB> or are there plans for a programmable sausage?
[19:48:08] <alex_joni> skullworks-PGAB: maybe a HAL sausage
[19:51:11] <anonimasu> roltek: that's ugly..
[19:51:25] <anonimasu> roltek: unless you can implement the changer macro as a integrator..
[19:51:51] <anonimasu> roltek: oh I'm designing a changer arm and a carousel..
[19:52:38] <roltek> that's the easy 1 next is drum run in and out by aircylinder
[19:52:57] <roltek> how complicated do you want to get
[19:53:14] <anonimasu> control wise I dont care..
[19:53:23] <anonimasu> mechanical bits and pices is trickier..
[19:54:02] <roltek> you will when you make it and it hang's up like all tool changer's do from time to time
[19:54:23] <anonimasu> hangs up?
[19:54:32] <anonimasu> why would it do that?
[19:54:44] <roltek> get's they all do
[19:54:55] <anonimasu> that's a design issue..
[19:55:26] <roltek> been in machine tool industry for 25 years and did not see a machine that did not hang up
[19:55:55] <anonimasu> I find that very odd..
[19:56:04] <roltek> no design issue you have to be able to get out of it
[19:56:19] <anonimasu> I dont get what you mean by hang up..
[19:56:35] <roltek> what if a chip gets inside your coolet
[19:57:03] <roltek> and tool doesnot seat all the way
[19:57:05] <anonimasu> what would that do to the linear feedback of the changer arm?
[19:57:47] <roltek> most changer arms don't have feed back
[19:58:04] <roltek> prox switch for in position
[19:58:28] <roltek> old ones had lead and lag switch's
[19:58:34] <anonimasu> yeah..
[19:59:51] <anonimasu> the plc I'm using has encoder inputs.. also
[20:00:08] <anonimasu> the main issue is mounting the changer arm
[20:00:35] <anonimasu> roltek: you can even do it without feedback..
[20:01:04] <anonimasu> arm moves in the puts the tool in spindle.. arm moves down and engages the tool clamp again..
[20:01:25] <anonimasu> then checks if there's still a tool in the gripper and sends off a alarm..
[20:02:13] <anonimasu> though I have no idea how close the tolerance are for the retainer knobs. I know I've seen them before..
[20:02:50] <roltek> you don't have to use arm makes thing more complicated drum would be best
[20:02:59] <anonimasu> I cant fit a big drum..
[20:03:03] <anonimasu> I want a changer arm and a tool magazine..
[20:03:19] <anonimasu> minimum 5 tools.. perferably 20..
[20:03:46] <roltek> arms are usaully all mechanical
[20:03:52] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:04:22] <anonimasu> also mounting a drum is much more complicated
[20:05:15] <anonimasu> this isnt on a big machine..
[20:05:36] <anonimasu> iso30 tooling
[20:05:55] <roltek> usaully drums are mounted on ways that move in and out with air cylinder
[20:06:54] <anonimasu> yep
[20:07:18] <roltek> drum is alot esierthan arm to make
[20:07:38] <roltek> machine picks tool with g code
[20:08:27] <roltek> or macro
[20:08:36] <anonimasu> my machine moves the table not the spindle..
[20:09:04] <anonimasu> and I think I changer arm is much nicer because you dont need the tool rack as close to the spindle..
[20:09:06] <roltek> does spindle have z move
[20:09:15] <anonimasu> no
[20:09:24] <skullworks-PGAB> Roltek is right ALL machine will hang up a ATC at some point.
[20:09:25] <roltek> true but more complicated
[20:10:10] <roltek> best machines have manual recovery easier than electronic
[20:10:23] <anonimasu> im pondering implementing that.. later
[20:10:38] <anonimasu> though moving the table isnt a problem either..
[20:10:42] <skullworks-PGAB> Okuma had nicest ATC in that respect - allowed single stepping either forward or reverse.
[20:10:45] <anonimasu> just for toolchanging..
[20:11:17] <anonimasu> it's not like I'm going to be running production day and night..
[20:11:41] <roltek> k&t have elctronic pain
[20:11:54] <roltek> dewoes have manual
[20:11:57] <roltek> nice
[20:13:05] <anonimasu> roltek: yeah, but you can minimize the stuff that happens when a toolchange breaks down..
[20:13:23] <anonimasu> *looking for air motors*
[20:13:47] <skullworks-PGAB> OKUMA has like 24 steps for a tool change - being able to single stepthru it, step back then step forward is very handy.
[20:13:59] <anonimasu> that's pretty brutal
[20:14:09] <anonimasu> :)
[20:14:54] <anonimasu> not surprising though
[20:15:18] <jmkasunich> IIRC the mazak at cnc workshop has quite a few steps
[20:15:32] <robin_sz> real machines have a tool library :)
[20:15:32] <jmkasunich> they're not numbered or anything tho, so I don't recall how many
[20:15:59] <anonimasu> I were just going to say that :D
[20:16:07] <anonimasu> robin_sz: you beat me to it..
[20:16:35] <robin_sz> a small obe would be nice
[20:16:41] <robin_sz> not too big
[20:16:43] <anonimasu> obe?
[20:16:48] <robin_sz> on
[20:16:51] <robin_sz> one
[20:17:08] <robin_sz> I dunno, 300, 400 tools maybe
[20:17:07] <anonimasu> yep
[20:17:11] <anonimasu> heh
[20:17:14] <anonimasu> go buy one
[20:17:23] <robin_sz> :)
[20:17:39] <robin_sz> Ive seen em with ~200 tools in the library
[20:17:49] <robin_sz> and 24 in the main turret
[20:18:16] <skullworks-PGAB> Okuma's are great machines - to bad there hardware is so off the wall strange that it would require replacing all the electronics and motors to upgrade to EMC2.
[20:19:13] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, anything beats changing tools by hand
[20:19:53] <roltek> what is max tool's used
[20:20:30] <anonimasu> I dont know..
[20:20:35] <anonimasu> more then one?
[20:21:05] <roltek> have to know max to design carasel
[20:21:30] <anonimasu> 5-20..
[20:21:44] <anonimasu> say 20 as a example..
[20:21:57] <roltek> fairly big drum
[20:22:18] <roltek> either side mount or top
[20:22:37] <anonimasu> side mount and a changer arm to change the tools..
[20:22:47] <skullworks-PGAB> your shanks are NT30 or cat30 or BT30?
[20:22:52] <anonimasu> iso30
[20:23:19] <roltek> built as completly seperate unit from machine tool
[20:23:32] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:23:45] <anonimasu> that's why a changer arm is a better idea..
[20:23:59] <anonimasu> they are 50mm at the bottom with nut..
[20:24:10] <anonimasu> http://www.stm.cz/kat_nast/iso30.htm
[20:24:16] <roltek> problem keeping them aligned
[20:24:25] <skullworks-PGAB> Since ISO 30 is not listed in tool catalogs I have... does the flange have a groove around it?
[20:24:37] <anonimasu> yes..
[20:24:59] <anonimasu> there are both manual and atc ones..
[20:25:21] <anonimasu> http://www.holthaus.at/inv-wkz/703.jpg
[20:25:40] <skullworks-PGAB> ok thats a CAT type
[20:26:48] <roltek> cat 30 correct
[20:27:22] <skullworks-PGAB> So - next question is what is the largest Dia tool you use?
[20:27:37] <skullworks-PGAB> (facemill likely)
[20:27:56] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/emcIniFile.cc: check for values first, not only for literals. LINEAR_/ANGULAR_UNITS = 1.0 should still be valid..
[20:28:11] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:28:18] <roltek> guesing 1.5 or 2"
[20:28:40] <anonimasu> 4.5..
[20:28:41] <anonimasu> "
[20:28:57] <roltek> drum just got bigger
[20:29:05] <skullworks-PGAB> There is also the option of keeping adjacent pockets empty...
[20:29:14] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:29:15] <jmkasunich> I was about to suggest that
[20:29:19] <anonimasu> that's probably more sane..
[20:29:22] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/ (emcIniFile.cc emcIniFile.hh): run dos2unix, no other change
[20:29:41] <anonimasu> let the plc keep track of tool diameters..
[20:29:45] <roltek> true changer has to handle weight of tool
[20:30:21] <anonimasu> im looking at drum size as we speak..
[20:30:32] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/inifile/ (inifile.cc inifile.hh): run dos2unix, no other change
[20:30:37] <skullworks-PGAB> now you just do a simple hole circle and fid out what size disc you need for the carasel
[20:31:11] <anonimasu> yeah..
[20:31:49] <skullworks-PGAB> you ever seen how Haas did there old tool changer?
[20:31:58] <skullworks-PGAB> its dirt simple
[20:32:10] <skullworks-PGAB> same for FADAL
[20:32:14] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:32:15] <roltek> is tool changer going to put back tool in any spot or where it came ffrom
[20:32:21] <anonimasu> big drum on top..
[20:32:35] <anonimasu> any spot..
[20:32:53] <roltek> fadal was owned by k & t
[20:32:59] <anonimasu> http://www.haascnc.com/images/options/vmc/SMTC4040.jpg
[20:32:59] <anonimasu> that kind?
[20:33:03] <skullworks-PGAB> for a while
[20:33:22] <skullworks-PGAB> not sure when KT bought them
[20:33:25] <alex_joni> haha.. I totally misunderstood that "owned"
[20:33:51] <roltek> early 90's
[20:34:02] <roltek> mabe late 80's
[20:34:15] <skullworks-PGAB> then Kerny & Trecker also owned them abit IIRC
[20:34:24] <skullworks-PGAB> pardon
[20:34:33] <skullworks-PGAB> Gidding & Lewis
[20:35:03] <roltek> true was up at g & l what a joke
[20:35:46] <roltek> they did have a 300 foot cnc bed mill though
[20:35:56] <skullworks-PGAB> anonimasu: - no - the old Haas side mount - no arm
[20:36:30] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: I havent seen them..
[20:36:52] <skullworks-PGAB> you seen the FADAL type?
[20:37:02] <skullworks-PGAB> nearly the same
[20:37:02] <roltek> did the drum just move in and out
[20:37:15] <skullworks-PGAB> yup
[20:37:16] <anonimasu> almost 1m in dia..
[20:37:23] <skullworks-PGAB> no
[20:37:31] <anonimasu> for 20 tools..
[20:37:35] <skullworks-PGAB> about 600mm
[20:37:48] <anonimasu> yeah..
[20:37:52] <skullworks-PGAB> 450 or so for a 16
[20:38:08] <skullworks-PGAB> rides on 2 vee rails
[20:38:09] <anonimasu> that's exactly right..
[20:38:23] <skullworks-PGAB> used a stepper to index pockets
[20:38:42] <roltek> sounds easy to me
[20:39:00] <skullworks-PGAB> think the FADAL used 2 rods with bushings
[20:39:09] <skullworks-PGAB> and an air cylinder
[20:39:21] <skullworks-PGAB> to move in & out
[20:39:34] <anonimasu> yep
[20:39:40] <roltek> most top drums used round and bushings
[20:39:41] <skullworks-PGAB> just used a limit stop bolt
[20:40:51] <skullworks-PGAB> there is sooo much slop in thoses - but they work just fine
[20:41:05] <roltek> see ya later guys
[20:41:05] <skullworks-PGAB> (armless)
[20:41:11] <skullworks-PGAB> later
[20:41:40] <anonimasu> laters
[20:42:12] <anonimasu> for my little mill I dont think I need that many tools but for the big mill at work..
[20:44:24] <robin_sz> i remeber those big mazaks with the chain of toolholders
[20:44:26] <anonimasu> to get a arm working nicely I need to draw up the column..
[20:45:11] <anonimasu> to see the bow I need to get the changer into envelope
[20:48:16] <skullworks-PGAB> an arm type is going to be a SERIOUS project!
[20:48:24] <alex_joni> night all
[20:48:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:48:46] <anonimasu> I know..
[20:48:50] <skullworks-PGAB> night alex - sweet dreams of talking sausage
[20:49:22] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: im not looking for blazing toolchanges, but with a small machine making the other kinds are very hard..
[20:51:14] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: seems like the tool magazine is as complicated as the actual changing
[20:52:00] <skullworks-PGAB> thats why I think you'ed be best to do the side mount with about 12 tool capacity. - Won't be fast, but will cover 90%+ of the programs you run.
[20:52:14] <anonimasu> you have no idea how small this machine is..
[20:52:27] <anonimasu> I cant fit 12 tools in a carousel next to it.. has to be \ to the side..
[20:53:03] <skullworks-PGAB> how small is it?
[20:53:22] <skullworks-PGAB> 30 taper gives me a clue
[20:53:28] <anonimasu> http://www.anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/Resources/SV13.JPG
[20:53:30] <anonimasu> that small.
[20:55:41] <skullworks-PGAB> OK - I've seen a slightly larger version of that type.
[20:56:11] <skullworks-PGAB> Leblond used to make it...
[20:56:24] <anonimasu> hm, ok
[20:56:35] <skullworks-PGAB> after Makino bought them it got phased out
[20:56:39] <anonimasu> it's a schaublin :)
[20:57:15] <skullworks-PGAB> ram moves for "Y", table for X/Z ?
[20:57:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:57:31] <anonimasu> extremely solid machines
[20:57:54] <skullworks-PGAB> that makes things fun - sort of
[20:58:15] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[20:58:27] <skullworks-PGAB> have you considered a rack on each end of the table?
[20:58:44] <anonimasu> yeah, but that limits my travel..
[20:58:56] <skullworks-PGAB> say 4 tools lined up in Y
[20:59:21] <anonimasu> the stuff I do requires the end of the y axis..
[20:59:28] <anonimasu> both + and -
[20:59:49] <skullworks-PGAB> On Y?
[20:59:57] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:00:04] <skullworks-PGAB> that shouldn't be a problem
[21:00:20] <skullworks-PGAB> your going to loose
[21:00:24] <skullworks-PGAB> x travel
[21:01:06] <anonimasu> I figure I'd use the Z travel for the toolchanging stuff to ge the tool/workpiece far away enough
[21:02:09] <anonimasu> *feels like he's just obnoxious* but toolchanging is pretty much a pain :D
[21:02:35] <skullworks-PGAB> true
[21:04:18] <skullworks-PGAB> but with the racks on each end of the table you get automated tool change - and you could dowel them so you could remove them to do larger parts with manual tool changes
[21:04:34] <anonimasu> hm, yeah
[21:05:02] <skullworks-PGAB> and it would be cheap!
[21:05:48] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB would be allready spending the money saved on more toolholders...
[21:05:57] <Guest573> hello I'm new to emc and can't type or spell but i have DAH LIH with a atc and was wondering if emc can work the atc seeing that the controler now reads punched paper
[21:06:36] <skullworks-PGAB> Wow paper tape!
[21:06:47] <skullworks-PGAB> what control is it?
[21:06:48] <Guest573> yeap paper
[21:07:05] <anonimasu> woah :D
[21:07:09] <skullworks-PGAB> like an old Fanuc 3 or 5?
[21:07:30] <Guest573> not real shour but the servos are fanuc
[21:08:34] <skullworks-PGAB> and the simple answer would be yes EMC could do it - But it will be a job to program it in Classic ladder.
[21:09:29] <Guest573> ok great i do have some knolage ot the slc500
[21:09:29] <skullworks-PGAB> yellow cap motors I assume?
[21:10:29] <Guest573> i do not remember it all in the yard under a tarp and i have not hade much time at home latly
[21:12:46] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB steps away to take a phonecall.
[21:13:16] <anonimasu> ok
[21:13:49] <Guest573> is there a servo i/o card that anyone would recomend
[21:17:53] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: http://imagebin.org/7826
[21:18:14] <anonimasu> Guest573: there are several cards that do that..
[21:18:22] <anonimasu> but I havent used either..
[21:18:44] <skullworks-PGAB> back
[21:19:08] <anonimasu> mesa does one vital systems does another(motenc/motenc lite)
[21:20:15] <skullworks-PGAB> anonimasu - that half the arm (done in Solidworks?)?
[21:20:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:20:49] <anonimasu> sensor on the side..
[21:20:54] <anonimasu> lock i the centre..
[21:21:10] <anonimasu> though I have neither of thoose as parts.. so I cant place them there..
[21:22:31] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: yeah it's sw.. :)
[21:22:32] <skullworks-PGAB> Guest - You best bet would likely be the Mesa 5i20 with some add on card ( 0-10v analog)
[21:23:03] <anonimasu> though the changer is a bit wrong..
[21:23:18] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: there should be a pocket around the tool > <
[21:23:22] <skullworks-PGAB> maybe an additional I/O card as well
[21:23:24] <anonimasu> that lets it down into the toolchanger..
[21:23:37] <Guest573> ok thanks i looked at there www. i just was not shour about all i need
[21:23:38] <skullworks-PGAB> yes
[21:23:41] <anonimasu> a bit, so that tools without lock wont fall out..
[21:24:28] <skullworks-PGAB> cut the profile with a 120 deg cutter
[21:24:40] <skullworks-PGAB> from each side
[21:25:12] <anonimasu> thar kind of cutter do you mean?
[21:25:29] <anonimasu> I were thinking a 20mm endmill..
[21:25:41] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB is hunting for a pic
[21:25:59] <anonimasu> 10mm, that's enough to give me the radius'es as drawen
[21:26:00] <anonimasu> drawn
[21:26:39] <anonimasu> the only important one is in that neck.. to let the sensor locknut have a flat face..
[21:28:09] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: im not happy with it though..
[21:28:28] <anonimasu> for it to be right it needs the changer pocket to be / /
[21:28:51] <anonimasu> but I need the arm radius for it..
[21:29:30] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB thinks the Kennametal website is useless.
[21:30:03] <skullworks-PGAB> I have the Kennametal cutters...
[21:30:44] <Jymmmm> HF finally paid off... Bought the speed controller from them, took the shopvac from 9a to 5a. laptop, drivers, router, and shopvac running take 11A total!
[21:30:45] <skullworks-PGAB> they work great but they don't have anything usefull online it seems
[21:30:59] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: though if I have a linear axis for the arm forth and back it can be done..
[21:31:30] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB thinks of the startup sequence in the Apollo 13 movie.
[21:31:37] <anonimasu> lol
[21:31:55] <Jymmmm> skullworks-PGAB pretty much =)
[21:32:36] <Jymmmm> But, at least I don't have to crawl under the house now.
[21:33:09] <skullworks-PGAB> hear that!
[21:33:30] <skullworks-PGAB> OK - I give up for now.
[21:33:49] <skullworks-PGAB> I'll just stop by the shopt later and take a pic
[21:33:57] <Jymmmm> I can't run the router at full speed 25K setting 6, but I can at 20k setting 5.
[21:34:22] <skullworks-PGAB> you have a tach?
[21:34:26] <Jymmmm> no
[21:35:20] <skullworks-PGAB> I got a deal on a tach on ebay stores.
[21:35:35] <Jymmmm> I guess I could use the wattmeter to see what it draws at certian settings.
[21:36:24] <Jymmmm> Heh, now I can even calculate and charge for the electricity =) lol
[21:36:53] <Jymmmm> screw charging by T&M, I'll charge by the KW!!!
[21:39:31] <robin_sz> hmm ... still having spot-welder fun
[21:39:46] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[21:39:55] <Jymmmm> In case you're interested, these work really well. We also sell them at work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93519
[21:40:23] <Jymmmm> Volta, Amps, VA, Hz, and KWh
[21:40:46] <Jymmmm> pF too, but I don't know what that is.
[21:40:56] <robin_sz> power factor
[21:41:03] <Jymmmm> which is?
[21:41:04] <skullworks-PGAB> Pico farads
[21:41:21] <robin_sz> pF is power factor on that meter
[21:42:44] <skullworks-PGAB> ah
[21:42:45] <robin_sz> cosine(phi)
[21:42:45] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB just sent Kennametal a nastygram about there websight...
[21:42:45] <robin_sz> Jymmmm, as resistor on the mains would have a power factor of 1, the current and the voltage are in phase
[21:42:45] <Jymmmm> robin_sz and in layman's terms?
[21:42:45] <robin_sz> that was laymans terms
[21:42:48] <Jymmmm> ok, dumbass terms then
[21:42:59] <robin_sz> an inductor (like a motor) would have a lower power factor
[21:43:13] <robin_sz> because the current and voltage are not in phase
[21:43:19] <robin_sz> ok, example
[21:43:34] <robin_sz> say you connected a big capacitor to the mains right?
[21:43:37] <Jymmmm> k
[21:43:44] <skullworks-PGAB> hmm do I really want to know how much power my computers are using...
[21:43:49] <robin_sz> it would draw a shed load of current
[21:44:04] <skullworks-PGAB> (enough to heat one room very well)
[21:44:11] <robin_sz> but (assuming it is a perfect capacitor) .. it would not get hot, right?
[21:44:23] <Jymmmm> I'll take your word for it =)
[21:44:27] <robin_sz> right ...
[21:45:00] <robin_sz> so ... lets see ... if its not getting hot, its not using power ...
[21:45:14] <robin_sz> indeed, your electric meter woudl agree and probably not go round
[21:45:39] <robin_sz> so ... its got 110Vac across it ,... its drawing 10A say, but not using power ...
[21:45:54] <Jymmmm> so, pF is sorta like inductive load on the line?
[21:47:49] <robin_sz> well, because the current is not in phase with the voltage on the line, it kinda doesnt get multiplied
[21:47:49] <robin_sz> with a resistor, like say a fire element it does ...
[21:47:49] <anonimasu> laters
[21:47:49] <robin_sz> typically a motor has a pF of around 0.8
[21:47:49] <skullworks-PGAB> later
[21:47:49] <robin_sz> so it might draw 10A at 110V but only conume 880W not 1100W
[21:47:49] <Jymmmm> robin_sz ok, so if pf is 0, I'm gathering you're fscked somehow
[21:47:56] <robin_sz> well, sorta, yeah
[21:48:07] <robin_sz> say you want a 10HP motor ...
[21:48:13] <robin_sz> for your lathe right?
[21:48:27] <robin_sz> 7460W that would be
[21:48:27] <Jymmmm> router
[21:48:34] <robin_sz> ok for your router
[21:48:39] <Jymmmm> smae diff
[21:48:47] <robin_sz> so ... you think to yourself ..
[21:48:59] <robin_sz> 7460W / 110V ...
[21:49:28] <robin_sz> 67Amps ... lucky me .. thats just big enough for the supply I have here
[21:49:58] <robin_sz> but .. no ..
[21:50:12] <robin_sz> the motor turns out to have apower factor of .8
[21:50:25] <robin_sz> you'll need 83A to run it ...
[21:50:55] <robin_sz> it will still only draw 7460watts though, 10 hp, even though its using those extra amps
[21:51:13] <robin_sz> its not such a big deal in domestic use
[21:51:29] <robin_sz> but a pain in industry .. some gear has really low power factor ...
[21:51:58] <Jymmmm> ok, so it's basically loss on the line is a sorta twisted way
[21:52:06] <robin_sz> sorta ...
[21:52:34] <robin_sz> volts x amps x cos(angle between them)
[21:53:07] <robin_sz> basically, if it gets out hand
[21:53:21] <robin_sz> you buy capacitors to hang in there and bring it back closer to 1
[21:54:08] <robin_sz> like this poxy spot welder of mine ... its pullign close to 200A, but its pF is crazy low, so I might buy a few caps to hang in there with it .. the current shodl come down to more like 50A max
[21:54:10] <Jymmmm> ok, I get a general idea now, will read up a lil more on it.
[21:54:14] <robin_sz> righty
[21:54:46] <Jymmmm> so the adding of the caps "balances" the line which reduces excessive load?
[21:55:13] <robin_sz> it balances out the inductive current with some capacative current
[21:55:28] <robin_sz> if you add the right amount it looks just like pure resistor current
[21:55:31] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm sees a dim light shining now =)
[21:57:05] <skullworks-PGAB> G84 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:57:16] <robin_sz> knight to kings 3
[21:58:39] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders if anyone actually does postal chess anymore
[21:58:42] <skullworks-PGAB> QUESTION: What will a machine do (using EMCv2.1.3) with a G84 command?
[21:59:24] <cradek> skullworks-PGAB: http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1003380
[22:00:18] <cradek> oh it's a tap cycle? it won't work
[22:02:28] <skullworks-PGAB> "This code is currently unimplemented in EMC2. It is accepted, but the behavior is undefined."
[22:04:00] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: give the axisui hal pins correct initial settings
[22:05:33] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: .
[22:10:40] <skullworks-PGAB> So how hard is it to get a simple G84 added? feed to Z depth and reverse and feed back to R.
[22:11:22] <cradek> by summer I hope to have real rigid tapping working
[22:11:28] <skullworks-PGAB> for use with floating tension/compression tap holder.
[22:11:44] <cradek> it may or may not be G84 (I understand G84 is usually not a rigid tap)
[22:12:31] <cradek> have you tried it? G84 may already do that
[22:12:43] <skullworks-PGAB> G84 is also rigid tap - but uses a M29 to indicate sync vrs m3
[22:13:38] <Jymmmm> robin_sz sibera and africa perhaps?
[22:13:52] <cradek> ok, but there is no M29 in ngc, so that part is all up in the air
[22:16:03] <roltek> does tapping have a dwel at z bottom before reversal of spindle
[22:17:18] <skullworks-PGAB> not really - but there is lag in the system unless you are rigid tapping.
[22:19:01] <skullworks-PGAB> Regular G84 does not apply spindle accel/decel - its just off/on
[22:20:31] <skullworks-PGAB> Rigid tap syncs both RPM and feed - good spindle control is needed to hit your depth target perfectly.
[22:20:46] <roltek> i'll have to check some books. they will not specify a dwell in the g-code but i bet its there
[22:21:33] <roltek> agreed but there has to be something on bottom before reversal
[22:23:43] <roltek> or are they running like cnc gear hobber where 1 spindle is run phase lock loop to another
[22:27:01] <skullworks-PGAB> In theory you could just drive the spindle with a off/on and read spindle position (encoder) and sync the Z to it.
[22:28:03] <skullworks-PGAB> but you may overshoot or undershoot due to tap friction and sindle decel rate.
[22:29:29] <roltek> true and the one of the reason for ridgid tapping was for higher rpm's at spindle because of better rigidty
[22:29:49] <roltek> with end mill holders
[22:30:20] <skullworks-PGAB> I can still tap faster with a tapmatic head...
[22:30:54] <roltek> agreed but than problems tool changing
[22:30:55] <skullworks-PGAB> #4-40 @ 4000rpm
[22:31:27] <skullworks-PGAB> they go thru the ATC just fine
[22:31:44] <skullworks-PGAB> but cost too much
[22:32:31] <roltek> but spindle has to have arm to grab and might get in the way of other tools
[22:37:30] <skullworks-PGAB> Mine have a short arm which when up in the ATC is pointing towards the center of the ATC.
[22:38:24] <roltek> i had 1 on 50 taper spindle stuck straight down
[22:38:46] <skullworks-PGAB> ug
[22:39:08] <skullworks-PGAB> I have not worked with 50 taper
[22:39:39] <roltek> kt's most 50 taper
[22:40:20] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[22:41:09] <skullworks-PGAB> I use CAT40 mainly - 10K-12K rpm
[22:41:55] <roltek> we use only cat 40 now cheaper tool holders
[22:42:15] <skullworks-PGAB> KwikSwitch 200 on the old Hurco.
[22:45:41] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/control.c: backport M51 fix
[22:46:25] <CIA-18> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: M51 fix
[23:02:13] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: jogwheel velocity mode
[23:10:27] <robin_sz> hmmm, that reminds me, must get back my tapmatic head from $mate
[23:14:39] <skullworks-PGAB> I have a 30X unit for drill press work.
[23:15:38] <skullworks-PGAB> want to get some NSM head for the X3 cnc project
[23:23:05] <skullworks-PGAB> Am I seeing some formating errors - or is this as intended?
[23:23:09] <skullworks-PGAB> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/tool_compensation/index.html
[23:24:05] <skullworks-PGAB> starting below the "Programming Errors and Limitations " list.
[23:25:38] <tomp> 1][t]0.4 ?
[23:26:19] <skullworks-PGAB> yeah - and [width=3in]
[23:28:30] <tomp> i suppose it was intended to be [G41][t]0.4 , tho previous discussions say the value is the INDEX into the tool table , not the offset . eg [G41][t]23 for radius comp of tool #23
[23:28:59] <tomp> oh, its some markup language scraps
[23:30:10] <skullworks-PGAB> yeah
[23:34:35] <tomp> same page says "EMC is very picky about the radius it computes from I,J coordinates, and they must match at the beginning and end of the move to within 10^-11 internal units, so you will have lots of problems with arbitrary arcs. " thats pretty picky when machine precision (and the gcode being interpreted) is often 3 or 4 decimal places.
[23:37:44] <skullworks-PGAB> I been using I/J for years due to simpler reverse engineering of any errors.
[23:39:16] <anonimasu> iab
[23:41:38] <anonimasu> skullworks-PGAB: I still need to try my tapping head
[23:42:12] <skullworks-PGAB> type?
[23:42:30] <anonimasu> some swedish brand..
[23:42:51] <anonimasu> looks looks like a tapmatic
[23:43:13] <skullworks-PGAB> Remember - many of the manual ones feed out 150% faster!
[23:44:01] <anonimasu> manual ones?
[23:44:11] <anonimasu> you mean for manual machines?
[23:44:35] <skullworks-PGAB> well - like may Tapmatic 30X
[23:44:37] <anonimasu> why should I remember that?
[23:45:27] <skullworks-PGAB> because if you try to use it with a cnc you will need to adjust the feed out...
[23:45:59] <skullworks-PGAB> g1 z-10 f10
[23:46:12] <skullworks-PGAB> z2. f15
[23:46:23] <anonimasu_get> anonimasu_get is now known as anonimasu_
[23:46:48] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:46:56] <anonimasu> I'd use the cycle for it..
[23:47:57] <anonimasu> *yawn:)
[23:48:01] <skullworks-PGAB> saw a guy using a procuner head in Mach - he busted a few taps figuring it out.
[23:48:12] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:49:35] <anonimasu> I'm still saving mine up for when I need lots of holes
[23:50:22] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:50:25] <anonimasu> scared to break it
[23:51:48] <skullworks-PGAB> I made a plate back in 91 - 27" x 16" x 1.5" steel, with a 1/2" x 1/2" grid of 1/4"-20 holes...
[23:52:21] <skullworks-PGAB> Its a ground subplate I use to hold panels for engraving.
[23:53:03] <anonimasu> nice
[23:53:49] <anonimasu> I need a plate like that really badly
[23:53:56] <anonimasu> actually I dont need lots of holes..
[23:53:59] <anonimasu> I just need it super flat
[23:54:12] <anonimasu> with location pin holes for fixtures
[23:55:10] <skullworks-PGAB> I got Hot rolled - did the pattern then sent it out for blanchard grinding.
[23:56:01] <skullworks-PGAB> its got about .0008" bow in the center.
[23:56:08] <roltek> stress releive it too
[23:56:15] <skullworks-PGAB> plenty good enough
[23:56:24] <anonimasu> that's pretty much :/
[23:56:27] <anonimasu> 0.02mm
[23:56:49] <skullworks-PGAB> thats part of why I used HR - less warpage
[23:58:21] <anonimasu> :)
[23:58:35] <roltek> skullworks where you out of
[23:59:15] <skullworks-PGAB> Colorado Springs, CO
[23:59:48] <roltek> nice
[23:59:58] <skullworks-PGAB> (in the shadow of Pikes Peak)