#emc | Logs for 2007-03-23

[00:00:35] <toastyde1th> yeah
[00:04:22] <toastyde1th> okay, so since this is a homebrew cnc channel
[00:04:26] <toastyde1th> at work, we have two machines
[00:04:28] <toastyde1th> hacked together
[00:04:35] <toastyde1th> diamond turning machines, that work to millionths
[00:04:38] <toastyde1th> all homebrew cnc
[00:05:01] <toastyde1th> they look like some sort of frankenstein monster
[00:05:09] <toastyde1th> wires and hydraulics everywhere
[00:08:00] <eric_u> sounds like my lab
[00:08:13] <eric_u> 'cept for the work to millionths part
[00:08:53] <toastyde1th> the surfaces look like CDs
[00:08:55] <toastyde1th> when they're done
[00:08:59] <toastyde1th> it's a very cool rainbow effect
[00:09:19] <eric_u> do you have a zygo?
[00:09:38] <toastyde1th> a who
[00:10:03] <eric_u> guess not
[00:10:21] <toastyde1th> what's a zygo
[00:10:22] <eric_u> white light interferometer surface metrology system
[00:10:30] <toastyde1th> not sure
[00:10:37] <toastyde1th> they have something, that's for sure
[00:11:00] <eric_u> the guys next door that do metrology talked my boss into buying one
[00:11:14] <mschuhmacher> do you have a picture?
[00:11:23] <eric_u> but we use it to look at fatigue cracks
[00:11:48] <toastyde1th> we use some sort of inductance probe
[00:11:48] <toastyde1th> i believe
[00:12:02] <eric_u> capacitance probably
[00:12:10] <toastyde1th> i'm not sure
[00:12:19] <toastyde1th> i haven't seen everything in the high precision rooms yet
[00:12:23] <toastyde1th> there's a lot of crap in there
[00:12:38] <ejholmgren> magnaflux and a magnifying glass? ;)
[00:12:44] <eric_u> http://www.zygo.com/library/photos/nv6300_lg.jpg
[00:12:57] <toastyde1th> we do have test indicators that direct read in millionths
[00:13:14] <toastyde1th> no, we don't have one of those thingers
[00:13:34] <toastyde1th> electronic indicators
[00:13:36] <toastyde1th> of course
[00:19:03] <mschuhmacher> toastydeath: what sort of computer do you use for your homebrew cnc
[00:20:06] <toastyde1th> some sort of keypad thing
[00:20:09] <mschuhmacher> sorry: toastyde1th
[00:20:10] <toastyde1th> mounted to the side of the machine
[00:20:17] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[00:20:26] <toastydeath> it's not sophisticated at all
[00:20:33] <toastydeath> it just does facing, turning, and boring
[00:20:34] <toastydeath> that's it
[00:21:05] <mschuhmacher> what about redundancy?
[00:21:27] <mschuhmacher> redundant power supply, usv
[00:21:46] <toastydeath> nope?
[00:21:50] <toastydeath> just a keypad and some knobs
[00:22:02] <toastydeath> it looks like a thing you'd swipe a credit card on
[00:22:11] <mschuhmacher> and it never failed?
[00:22:14] <toastydeath> no?
[00:22:33] <toastydeath> nothing would happen if it did
[00:22:36] <toastydeath> the tool would just stop moving
[00:22:49] <toastydeath> and the spindle would slowly drift to a halt
[00:23:28] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/stepgen.0/expected: endorse the results of the new stepgen algorithm
[00:23:46] <mschuhmacher> hmmm
[00:23:56] <toastydeath> now if it lost AIR
[00:23:57] <toastydeath> that would be bad
[00:24:05] <toastydeath> power, nobody cares about
[00:24:08] <toastydeath> but air, air is very important
[00:24:13] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/counter-encoder.0/test.hal: the counter output was not being tested
[00:24:23] <toastydeath> if we start losing air pressure the jobs are stopped immediately
[00:24:39] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/counter-encoder.0/expected: endorse the results of the new stepgen algorithm
[00:25:41] <mschuhmacher> I bet you have big air tanks
[00:25:45] <toastydeath> yessir
[00:25:52] <toastydeath> we also have large compressors
[00:26:05] <mschuhmacher> the screw type
[00:26:19] <toastydeath> i think they're older multi-stage piston ones
[00:26:35] <toastydeath> a lot of our gear has been given new life
[00:26:53] <toastydeath> found in junkyards and made to turn high precision spindles for semiconductor metrology
[00:27:35] <mschuhmacher> :O)
[00:27:43] <SWPadnos> cool. what company, if I may ask?
[00:27:50] <toastydeath> new way air bearings
[00:31:17] <SWPadnos> strange name for a semiconductor metrology company :)
[00:31:34] <SWPadnos> ah - spindles for semiconductor metrology
[00:31:52] <toastydeath> yeah
[00:31:56] <toastydeath> we make air bearings
[00:32:18] <toastydeath> i had several "this goes in WHAT" moments
[00:32:23] <toastydeath> when i started working there
[00:32:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:35:35] <ejholmgren> ?!
[00:37:20] <toastydeath> ??1!
[00:38:11] <ejholmgren> zomg
[00:38:19] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren grips his MDF gantry
[00:38:25] <mschuhmacher> we used air groves to make a tailstock go lighter
[00:39:13] <mschuhmacher> on an old used russian lathe
[00:39:18] <toastydeath> ?
[00:39:20] <toastydeath> make it go lighter?
[00:39:43] <mschuhmacher> very heavy tailstock
[00:39:55] <toastydeath> oh
[00:40:22] <toastydeath> lol, that actually is a pretty good idea
[00:40:24] <mschuhmacher> we used air to move it, you can press a button and pfff
[00:40:45] <mschuhmacher> frictionless
[00:41:08] <mschuhmacher> :-)
[00:42:15] <ejholmgren> what's an "air grove" ?
[00:42:26] <mschuhmacher> you have to care that the thing stops and not run into the workpiece
[00:42:44] <mschuhmacher> an air grove is:
[00:43:12] <ejholmgren> like an air hockey table?
[00:43:53] <mschuhmacher> http://www.newwayairbearings.com/images/orifice.gif
[00:44:03] <ejholmgren> I wish we would have gotten the air tables on the hydraulic cutters at work
[00:44:30] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren slides 50lbs of paper effortlessly
[00:45:24] <mschuhmacher> I mean air groove
[00:45:33] <mschuhmacher> not air grove
[00:46:01] <ejholmgren> what kind of force are they for .. thrust, radial, etc?
[00:48:22] <mschuhmacher> you make the grooves on the bottom of the surface, then with pressured air the tailstock floats
[00:48:55] <mschuhmacher> you need the grooves to distribute the pressured air over the surface
[00:50:05] <ejholmgren> was just looking at the design guide
[00:50:08] <ejholmgren> cool stuff
[00:58:44] <mschuhmacher> its late here good night
[02:32:42] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/incvis/index.html
[02:32:46] <jepler> graphviz is neat
[02:32:49] <jepler> 'night now
[04:09:07] <jmkasunich> serious pyromania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wir0qJdLYI
[04:10:18] <Guest866> Guest866 is now known as skunkworks
[04:15:17] <ejholmgren> nice
[04:15:22] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (control.c mot_priv.h motion.c): velocity mode for jog-wheels - stops as soon as the wheel stops, even if that means losing position sync. default remains position mode
[05:00:28] <Jymmmm> Did someone say extreme explosives???? http://one.revver.com/watch/40862/format/flv/affiliate/19518
[05:20:06] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymmmm, how was prime rib?
[10:07:49] <cncjunior> hi !
[10:25:21] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_
[10:38:00] <roltek> ray you up already
[11:02:15] <anonimasu> :)
[11:02:29] <anonimasu> hm, is there anyone that has done work on a touchscreen interface?
[11:03:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ponders how axis does on a touchscreen
[12:09:35] <anonimasu> gah!"#Ā¤
[12:30:07] <alex_joni> what?
[12:31:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. alibre works like crap for 2D drawings
[12:38:56] <anonimasu> ok
[12:39:54] <alex_joni> does it work ok for you?
[12:41:09] <anonimasu> havent tried..
[12:41:24] <anonimasu> I'm going to buy it as soon as they fix the damn dimensioningĀ“/relations stuff..
[12:41:32] <anonimasu> the snap is wild.
[12:44:13] <SWPadnos> does it seem worth the price?
[12:44:24] <SWPadnos> (for the non-gratis versions)
[13:16:17] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: yes certainly
[13:16:26] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: though I dont like the snap..
[13:16:48] <anonimasu> or the fact that they forgot that people like to neter dimensions when creating geometry without opening a new window..
[13:17:06] <SWPadnos> ok. I had tried Alibre before they released the free version, must have been several years ago now
[13:17:20] <SWPadnos> it wasn't good enough to get me to buy it - I got CadMax instead
[13:17:38] <SWPadnos> which doesn't look too nice, and hasn't been updated in 5 years or so now
[13:17:54] <SWPadnos> but it works very similarly to SolidWorks, and costs $300
[13:18:03] <anonimasu> oh
[13:18:10] <anonimasu> that's nice..
[13:18:31] <SWPadnos> yep - it works pretty well (sketches, feature tree, fully parametric with Parasolid kernel ...)
[13:19:38] <anonimasu> nice
[13:19:47] <anonimasu> do they have a recent version?
[13:19:57] <SWPadnos> not that I've seen :
[13:19:59] <SWPadnos> :(
[13:20:14] <anonimasu> that sucks :/
[13:20:16] <SWPadnos> I'd love to get some of the non-CAD features of "modern" programs, such as PDF output
[13:20:26] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's a bummer
[13:20:43] <anonimasu> I'd love to have the sketch driven/parameetric stuff..
[13:20:49] <anonimasu> ease of use..
[13:20:56] <SWPadnos> but $300 is about 3 months of the support contract for SolidWorks, so I guess it's still been a relatively good value
[13:21:08] <anonimasu> I tried brl-cad.. :D
[13:21:21] <anonimasu> I might aswell create parts in pov-ray
[13:21:27] <SWPadnos> it's pretty easy to use, it just doesn't look like a "modern" app (you know - no pastel/high-color icons ...)
[13:22:12] <SWPadnos> of course, their site is down, maybe they went out of business
[13:22:47] <anonimasu> :)
[13:24:01] <anonimasu> the issue with brlcad is that it's awky to use..
[13:24:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.deskeng.com/articles/02/sept/cover/index.htm
[13:24:18] <SWPadnos> "Although, at first glance, it appears to have a user interface that follows Windows conventions, I found it to be the least user-friendly program I tested."
[13:24:20] <SWPadnos> heh :)
[13:26:18] <anonimasu> pro desktop looks nice
[13:26:23] <anonimasu> solidworks-ish
[13:26:27] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was just noticing that
[13:26:42] <SWPadnos> too bad I didn't find that page before I bought CadMax
[13:26:45] <anonimasu> I'm going to call them for a demo.
[13:51:50] <anonimasu> pro engineer looks like nice value for price
[13:51:56] <anonimasu> under $5k
[14:01:22] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[15:11:29] <cncjunior> hi !
[16:14:15] <cradek> The University of Nebraska is so pissed off with the RIAA's outrageous requests to help rat out students who file-share that it has sent the RIAA a bill for the time the University has wasted dealing with the RIAA's demands.
[16:14:26] <cradek> heh
[16:19:37] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/cms/cms_cfg.hh: get rid of unneeded include
[16:30:56] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[17:12:32] <runner_guy> hey guys!
[17:14:06] <runner_guy> I'm a little stumped with an EMC config problem and was hoping I could bounce some ideas off someone that knows a lot more about EMC than I do
[17:19:31] <runner_guy> anyone out there?
[17:20:55] <cncjunior> hi, I am not expert
[17:21:12] <runner_guy> heh
[17:21:15] <runner_guy> that makes two of us
[17:22:08] <runner_guy> I figured out my problem with inverting the direction of an axis
[17:22:35] <runner_guy> now i'm trying to figure out which part of my velocity config is screwed up
[17:22:46] <cncjunior> are you using servos / steppers ?
[17:22:49] <runner_guy> seems that whenever I try to rapid somewhere I rin into following errors
[17:22:52] <runner_guy> steppers
[17:22:56] <runner_guy> with the parport driver
[17:24:02] <cncjunior> what kind of errors ?
[17:24:03] <SWPadnos> make sure that your STEPGEN_MAXACCEL and STEPGEN_MAXVEL are a bit higher than the MAX_ACCELERATION and MAX_VELOCITY for each axis
[17:24:44] <runner_guy> been getting following errors
[17:25:32] <runner_guy> yeah
[17:25:32] <SWPadnos> right. the only way tto get a following error with a stepper system is if the step generator has settings that are too low for it to keep up with the trajectory planner
[17:25:41] <runner_guy> yeah...that's what I assumed
[17:26:10] <runner_guy> I'm using an english setup right now, and have MAX_VELOCIOTY at 1.2 in the traj section
[17:26:13] <pier_> pier_ is now known as pierp
[17:26:22] <SWPadnos> actually, you should probably reduce the MAXVEL/MAXACCEL on each axis, rather than increasing STEPGEN_* (unless you have a large safety margin in your settings)
[17:26:43] <SWPadnos> what's STEPGEN_MAXVEL?
[17:26:59] <runner_guy> 1.4 on axis0
[17:27:45] <SWPadnos> hmm. I'm a bit busy to look over the numbers right now, but I suspect your BASE_PERIOD is too long, and that the stepgen can't generate steps fast enough
[17:27:46] <runner_guy> I copied one of the example configs and made a few minor mods t omatch my pinouts and such
[17:27:55] <runner_guy> that's pretty easy to change
[17:28:22] <runner_guy> are these all in UNITS per minute?
[17:28:29] <SWPadnos> there should be an error mesasge (in a terminal or in dmesg - don't remember) saying something like "STEPGEN: ERROR: Requested step rate of xxxis higher than max rate of nnn"
[17:28:33] <SWPadnos> UNITS per second
[17:28:37] <runner_guy> ah
[17:28:46] <runner_guy> I didn't see anything in the dmesg output when I looked
[17:29:00] <SWPadnos> ok, it may be printed to ther terminal
[17:29:31] <runner_guy> :-\
[17:29:42] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[17:29:55] <runner_guy> have been using the AXIS UI and it only throws the joint following error in the dialog is shows
[17:30:15] <SWPadnos> are you running EMC from a terminal, or from the applications menu?
[17:30:27] <runner_guy> apps menu
[17:30:38] <runner_guy> I can give it a shot from the terminal
[17:30:40] <runner_guy> [ 815.649026] SCOPE_RT: installed sample function
[17:30:40] <runner_guy> [ 815.662656] config string '0x0378'
[17:30:40] <runner_guy> [ 815.662802] PARPORT: installed driver for 1 ports
[17:30:40] <runner_guy> [ 1418.965412] 600848: ERROR: joint 2 following error
[17:30:50] <SWPadnos> ok. I think you can select "run in terminal" and "don't close after finished"
[17:30:53] <runner_guy> no whining from the step generator in dmesg
[17:30:54] <SWPadnos> or similar
[17:31:06] <SWPadnos> ok - it's likely on the terminal then :)
[17:32:48] <SWPadnos> gotta get back to work. check the wiki, and good luck
[17:33:23] <runner_guy> hrm...
[17:33:26] <runner_guy> here's the error
[17:33:28] <runner_guy> joint 2 following error
[17:33:29] <runner_guy> emc/task/taskintf.cc 787: Error on axis 2, command number 49
[17:33:45] <SWPadnos> ok. it may not be BASE_PERIOD
[17:33:50] <runner_guy> :-\
[17:33:53] <SWPadnos> can you paste your ini to http://pastebin.ca
[17:34:21] <runner_guy> sure...but that url throws an internal server error
[17:34:41] <SWPadnos> odd
[17:35:00] <SWPadnos> try this then: http://pastebin.com/
[17:35:01] <runner_guy> yeah
[17:35:03] <alex_joni> try pastebin.com
[17:35:09] <SWPadnos> usually .ca is better ...
[17:36:25] <runner_guy> oh geez
[17:36:29] <runner_guy> their mysql install is hosed
[17:36:51] <runner_guy> gives a nice dump of their SQL query
[17:38:55] <runner_guy> okay...it's up on paste.uni.cc
[17:39:29] <runner_guy> http://paste.uni.cc
[17:40:56] <SWPadnos> the scale of 32000 makes the velocity limit 10000/32000 or around 0.3 inches/sec
[17:41:13] <SWPadnos> 10000 is the max pulse rate, calculated from the BASE_PERIOD
[17:42:31] <runner_guy> okay
[17:42:41] <runner_guy> so I should be pulling those numbers way down
[17:43:08] <SWPadnos> yep. check out that tweaking wiki page if you haven't already. most of this stuff is explained there
[17:43:15] <runner_guy> or decrease the BASE PERIOD
[17:43:19] <runner_guy> mmkay
[17:43:26] <SWPadnos> yep, though that takes some experimentation
[17:43:31] <runner_guy> the part I was missing was the UNIT/sec and not minute
[17:43:38] <runner_guy> 20IPM is pretty reasonable
[17:43:43] <SWPadnos> that's a big one ;)
[17:43:44] <runner_guy> 20ips...not so much
[17:43:48] <SWPadnos> right
[18:08:03] <alex_joni> short question about a PWM<->analog converter board
[18:08:16] <alex_joni> http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=21 or http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/#speedcontroller
[18:08:20] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: what would you get?
[18:09:00] <cradek> runner_guy: are you using emc2.0.x or emc2.1.x? 2.1 is supposed to tell you when you have a stepgen setup that's not right
[18:10:12] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, Homann's unit, probably
[18:10:28] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: any particular reasns?
[18:10:32] <cradek> Confidence is no replacement for qualification!
[18:10:39] <SWPadnos> I don't particularly like DeskCNC :)
[18:10:57] <alex_joni> ha, that's a reason too :P
[18:10:59] <alex_joni> and it's cheaper
[18:17:46] <runner_guy> thanks for your help SWPandros
[18:18:10] <runner_guy> I ran through the calibrate stuff and made some tweaks to the velocities
[18:19:04] <cradek> runner_guy: are you using emc2.0.x or emc2.1.x? 2.1 is supposed to tell you when you have a stepgen setup that's not right
[18:19:14] <jepler> the homann board sounds good to me -- I like that there's a full PDF manual online
[18:20:14] <jepler> looks like the only thing missing compared to the imsrv board would be the CW/CCW and the other non-isolated terminals
[18:25:12] <alex_joni> hmm.. the homann board only takes 100Hz as a PWM
[18:25:22] <alex_joni> the deskcnc takes 50kHz max
[18:27:02] <jepler> 100Hz? that could be a killer
[18:27:25] <jepler> though with an emc digital output in pdm mode it could be fine
[18:27:47] <jepler> sure 100Hz is not a misprint?
[18:34:33] <SWPadnos> I think it's a 100Hz ouput filter
[18:39:06] <jepler> that would make more sense to me
[18:40:17] <jepler> but it's hard to read the manual as saying that
[18:40:53] <SWPadnos> true. it looks like he says 50 Hz is the max, actually
[18:41:09] <SWPadnos> I didn't realize he's using a PIC to do the PWM
[18:41:48] <SWPadnos> you can always use it in analog mode, with an RC filter on the higher speed PWM. then it just provides an isolated analog output
[18:42:08] <jepler> www.artofcnc.ca seems to be redirecting to http://errorpage.eastlink.ca/index.html today
[18:42:29] <SWPadnos> I get http://www.machsupport.com/ instead
[18:42:52] <jepler> I was trying to visit some internal page, maybe only the front redirects
[18:43:05] <SWPadnos> could be
[18:43:16] <jepler> looking for information on what its spindle speed output is like
[18:43:28] <SWPadnos> PWM at some very low frequency, I think
[18:47:26] <alex_joni> they say low frequency PWM in the manual
[18:47:28] <alex_joni> 2Hz-100Hz
[18:47:41] <alex_joni> although I kinda doubt a PWM at 2Hz is very usefull
[18:48:00] <SWPadnos> that's 2Hz total period, so it's actually usable for a spindle
[18:50:09] <SWPadnos> the Mach manual doesn't say what the max PWM rate is, but if their step rates are the base, then 45 KHz stepping / 500 (2 periods per step??, 1000 PWM settings) = ~90 Hz max for Mach
[18:50:44] <SWPadnos> bbiab - time for dinner
[18:50:57] <SWPadnos> err - lunch
[19:13:10] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLPIT-geTs
[19:14:42] <robin_sz> meep?
[19:14:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz bounces
[19:15:01] <robin_sz> like a Czech
[19:15:19] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLPIT-geTs
[19:15:22] <alex_joni> hi robin
[19:15:34] <cradek> robin_sz: every time I see 'gotadsl' it I think at first it's 'goatse'
[19:15:46] <robin_sz> heh
[19:15:54] <alex_joni> haha
[19:15:59] <robin_sz> dont see him around much anymore do we
[19:16:01] <alex_joni> cradek: he's quite close to goatse too
[19:16:20] <alex_joni> robin_sz: or used to?
[19:17:06] <robin_sz> alex_joni, well, I know him (as in the ex webmaster of that site, not the guy in the photo)
[19:17:23] <robin_sz> know him as in email him from time to time
[19:18:11] <alex_joni> robin_sz: wasn't implying anything else :P
[19:19:09] <robin_sz> * robin_sz reads the news
[19:19:12] <robin_sz> oopsie
[19:19:17] <robin_sz> thats Iran stuffed then
[19:31:31] <feoc> what they done now/
[19:34:42] <feoc> the sailor thing?
[19:57:38] <feoc> do most encoders run off 5 v ?
[20:01:40] <feoc> also how o i work out what wires are the A and B signals by looking ?
[20:06:20] <cradek> if you can find the power supply wires, figuring out which are A/B is easy - they look like quadrature on the scope
[20:12:46] <runner_guy> cradek: I'm on EMC2.0.3
[20:13:12] <cradek> runner_guy: ah, you ought to update to 2.0.5 or 2.1
[20:13:44] <runner_guy> how much of a PITA is it to upgrade?
[20:13:51] <runner_guy> I've got the standard ubuntu install
[20:13:52] <cradek> none
[20:13:59] <cradek> just use the update manager
[20:14:42] <runner_guy> the ubuntu one?
[20:14:44] <cradek> yes
[20:14:48] <runner_guy> I've been a slack guy all my IT days
[20:15:09] <cradek> that will get you 2.0.5. If you want to upgrade to the 2.1 series, you have to change a thing - let me find the instructions
[20:15:25] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[20:15:58] <runner_guy> hrm...mebbie I'll do that when i get back
[20:16:14] <runner_guy> I'm fighting with getting some parts made this afternoon before I leave town for a couple of weeks
[20:16:32] <runner_guy> and I'd try doing CNC via VNC...but I know better
[20:16:33] <runner_guy> :)
[20:16:34] <cradek> 2.1 is the active release tree - 2.0 is the previous which is very much settled now, probably won't have another 2.0 release.
[20:16:43] <cradek> ooh what a terrible idea :-)
[20:16:48] <runner_guy> bah
[20:16:52] <runner_guy> it could be done
[20:16:55] <runner_guy> I've done worse before
[20:17:27] <runner_guy> try writing system update code while in the passenger seat of a car using a cellular modem
[20:17:33] <runner_guy> that's living by the seat of your pants
[20:43:11] <crepincd1tcom> i'm making some H-bridges from n- and p-chennel mosfets
[20:43:26] <crepincd1tcom> is there a significant issue with timing?
[20:43:50] <crepincd1tcom> ie, mosfets turn off slower than they turn on, so for a short time eadch transition there will be a straight route from rail to rail through each half bridge
[20:43:56] <crepincd1tcom> crepincd1tcom is now known as crepincdotcom
[20:44:18] <cradek> that's why I used L298s...
[20:44:34] <cradek> well, not exactly why, but I didn't think I could make H bridges that wouldn't blow up
[20:44:55] <crepincdotcom> heh I thought I'd try the manual method at least once
[20:44:58] <crepincdotcom> so i should expect fire, then?
[20:45:18] <cradek> jmkasunich is the guy you want to ask - I have no clue
[20:45:35] <cradek> but, probably on the first try, yes :-)
[20:49:22] <feoc> axis doesnt work via remote x :(
[20:49:29] <cradek> sure it does
[20:49:38] <feoc> i cant get it too
[20:49:43] <cradek> what's the error?
[20:49:56] <feoc> think its coz it uses GL
[20:50:13] <cradek> yeah, if your X server doesn't have GL, it's trouble
[20:50:15] <jepler> what's the error?
[20:50:31] <feoc> its not an issue really
[20:50:37] <cradek> what's the error?
[20:50:45] <feoc> only using remote via my laptop while i setup
[20:50:51] <feoc> hang on let me try find it
[20:52:25] <feoc> X error of failed request : badwindow
[20:56:56] <feoc> anyway not too fussed
[20:57:14] <feoc> its just till i get chance to plumb in a monitor and keyboard to the pc in the box
[20:57:45] <feoc> my main concern is trying to hook up the mill to the mesa boards
[20:58:01] <feoc> dunno where to start tbh
[21:06:49] <feoc> is it worth running 2.1 over 2.0.5 ?
[21:08:05] <cradek> nobody can answer that but you - look at the changelogs and see if there's anything you want
[21:09:03] <cradek> 2.1 currently has regular updates/bugfixes - that could be good or bad according to your situation
[21:10:14] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=
[21:10:31] <cradek> (2.1.4 will probably be released this weekend)
[21:10:43] <feoc> ok
[21:11:26] <cradek> 2.0.5 is very trusted and stable -- but as you can see 2.1 has MANY nice new features
[21:11:29] <feoc> well i want to setup a lathe aswell is the lathe support been updated much as it says it would be on main page ?
[21:11:48] <cradek> for a lathe you would really want to use 2.1
[21:12:11] <cradek> for G76 if nothing else
[21:12:40] <cradek> there is only preliminary lathe support in 2.0 and several bugs have been fixed since
[21:13:06] <feoc> ok
[21:13:08] <cradek> I have to run
[21:13:22] <feoc> aight ty
[21:13:23] <cradek> do look through the changelog - we write it very carefully
[21:13:43] <feoc> ill test it on my other computer first
[21:31:39] <runner_guy> hey...I've got a question about tool compensation
[21:32:12] <runner_guy> I'm getting a gouging warning on the same line where I turn on compensation
[21:32:33] <runner_guy> even though I've rounded all the corners in my part
[21:32:43] <runner_guy> and their radii are much larger than the cutter
[21:32:50] <runner_guy> (at least they should be)
[21:33:38] <runner_guy> I've setup the cutter radius in the .tbl file
[21:34:08] <runner_guy> and I assume they're in UNITS in the .tbl
[21:46:19] <feoc> when i try to compile emc im gettin errors on configure
[21:46:25] <feoc> says missing version.h
[21:49:26] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[21:51:16] <jepler> feoc: this probably means you don't have all the right development packages installed. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_Ubuntu_to_compile_emc2
[21:55:16] <feoc> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_Ubuntu_to_compile_emc2
[21:55:20] <feoc> doh
[21:55:25] <feoc> sorry
[21:57:04] <feoc> ahh
[21:57:08] <feoc> build-dep
[21:57:11] <feoc> :)
[21:57:24] <feoc> serves me right for skipping chapters
[21:58:59] <jepler> is there something you know you need to change, or do you just like building software yourself?
[22:01:54] <feoc> just trying out the newer emc
[22:01:57] <feoc> only got 2.0.5
[22:02:56] <feoc> and there are some m5i20 driver fix's and lathe support that looks usefull
[22:07:01] <jepler> feoc: I see -- compiling 2.1 or CVS with --enable-run-in-place is a good way to try it out while keeping a working 2.0.5 installed
[22:07:34] <feoc> yah thats what im doing
[22:44:07] <Jymmmm> Does anyone know how to remove a set screw with a stripped out head?
[22:44:22] <Jymmmm> usually uses a 5/16 hex key
[22:44:55] <Jymmmm> 4mm key fits, but doesn't turn it, and 5mm is too large.
[22:53:40] <ds3> what is the set screw in?
[22:59:35] <Jymmmm> ds3 the disc for the sander I got
[23:00:25] <Jymmmm> I've put so much work into gettign the disc flat, I'd like to just buy a replament set screw instead fo replacing the whole thing.
[23:00:44] <Jymmmm> but I got to get the bad one out.
[23:06:00] <feoc> drill ad EZ out ?
[23:10:41] <crepincdotcom> jmkasunich: around?
[23:10:44] <Jymmmm> maybe I have some cheap hex keys I can grind down a bit and hammer in.
[23:11:20] <eric_u> the square ez outs don't work?
[23:11:52] <eric_u> also, some people swear by left-hand drill bits
[23:11:56] <ejholmgren> jymmmm: what did you do now?
[23:12:11] <Jymmmm> ejholmgren bough china iron
[23:12:25] <eric_u> heat might help
[23:13:19] <ds3> left hand bit on a drill
[23:13:38] <eric_u> but if it still has corners on the hex, the grinder method could work
[23:13:49] <eric_u> grinding a hex key that is
[23:14:12] <eric_u> flat head screwdriver of the right size
[23:14:26] <eric_u> I'm a veritable font of ideas
[23:14:52] <Jymmmm> cheap screwdrivers I have a few that have square shanks
[23:15:16] <eric_u> you just have to have one that will go from corner to corner, approximately
[23:15:37] <eric_u> in fact, a really high quality Weha precision screwdriver from work is your best bet
[23:15:45] <Jymmmm> Yeah, not many "corners" left, almost round.
[23:16:08] <eric_u> left hand drill bit then
[23:16:43] <eric_u> pounding thing in probably increases the friction too much
[23:17:24] <Jymmmm> no, havne't pounded anything yet, I stripped it use hand tightening alone
[23:17:27] <SWPadnos> dremel: cut a slot in it, then use a flat screwdriver :)
[23:17:40] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos it's recessed
[23:17:52] <SWPadnos> (that's the solution to all problems when you have a dremel around: cut a slot in it)
[23:18:02] <SWPadnos> then you'll have a slot near the new one ;)
[23:18:05] <Jymmmm> even thought a hack saw, but will cut thru the wheel
[23:19:16] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos did you ever get a chance to see if your sander is flat/true? the disc that is?
[23:19:21] <SWPadnos> nope
[23:19:49] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos could ya within the next few hours by chance?
[23:20:23] <SWPadnos> probably not, actually
[23:20:26] <SWPadnos> sorry
[23:20:34] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: you good with h-bridges?
[23:20:49] <SWPadnos> I'm OK, but not an expert
[23:20:57] <crepincdotcom> ok
[23:21:12] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos could you by tomorrow morning by chance?
[23:21:53] <eric_u> what are you using this wheel to sand?
[23:22:03] <SWPadnos> it's remotely possible, but I'm not sure I'll have the time
[23:22:07] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: when using servos in a pwm+pwm config, does EMC bring both outputs low when it's not moving the motor? And if so, does it use the braking effect this provides to its advantage or use revere pulses to slow the motor
[23:22:15] <SWPadnos> trying to finish a project before I leave town on Monday
[23:22:36] <Jymmmm> eric_u plastic
[23:22:57] <Jymmmm> ok, screw it, I'll just return the sander Saturday then.
[23:24:44] <SWPadnos> crepincdotcom, I think that EMC will end up braking due to the PID. since emc wants the motor to slow down, it will tend to coast "too fast", which PID will notice and correct for (by making the up/down output more "down")
[23:25:06] <crepincdotcom> so it allows the motors own friction to stop it
[23:25:12] <SWPadnos> both will help
[23:25:24] <crepincdotcom> oh right i see now
[23:25:43] <SWPadnos> realize that EMC may need to "brake" during normal milling as well, if you're climb milling (the cutter will be trying to pull the axis along ...)
[23:25:56] <crepincdotcom> right
[23:26:04] <crepincdotcom> thats a good thing :-p
[23:26:12] <crepincdotcom> climb milling gives a much nicer finish
[23:26:11] <SWPadnos> indeed
[23:26:36] <crepincdotcom> so pwm+pwm is well supported method right? or do most people do direction+pwm
[23:26:54] <SWPadnos> there's an up/down output that can be used to directly drive H-bridges, I think
[23:27:03] <crepincdotcom> hm
[23:27:05] <SWPadnos> PDM, not PWM - if you want to be pedantic
[23:27:13] <crepincdotcom> oh?
[23:27:21] <crepincdotcom> pulse d... modulation?
[23:27:25] <SWPadnos> density
[23:27:36] <crepincdotcom> the frequanecy changes as well??
[23:27:39] <crepincdotcom> *frequency
[23:27:43] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:27:50] <crepincdotcom> wow i certanly didn't know that
[23:27:55] <SWPadnos> check out the sample config skunkworks made
[23:28:01] <SWPadnos> I think it may be on the wiki or something
[23:28:06] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom searches
[23:30:54] <gene_> hey guys, nice warm day here. What repo do I need to install to get the 2.10 release?
[23:31:32] <SWPadnos> change emc2 to emc2.1 in sources.list
[23:31:40] <SWPadnos> on the 2 or 3 lines where you see emc2
[23:32:06] <gene_> Ok, headed that way, thanks
[23:33:08] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: do you have the cvs link off hand for (i think) jepler's etch a sketch? i think that used pwm+pwm
[23:34:08] <SWPadnos> err
[23:34:20] <SWPadnos> one sec
[23:34:25] <crepincdotcom> thx
[23:34:27] <SWPadnos> I'll get you to the configs dir
[23:34:53] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/
[23:35:01] <crepincdotcom> thanks
[23:35:17] <SWPadnos> I think lathe-pluto has the same setup for the spindle
[23:35:25] <crepincdotcom> oh ok
[23:38:11] <gene_> Found it, wasn't sudo'd, won't save.
[23:40:04] <SWPadnos> odd. if you run Synaptic, it should prompt you for a password, and you should be able to edit sources ...
[23:40:13] <SWPadnos> of course, nano needs sudo ;)
[23:47:11] <gene_> Got it, now to see if ti runs...
[23:47:20] <SWPadnos> wait!
[23:47:24] <SWPadnos> you need to update your configs
[23:49:19] <SWPadnos> gene_, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[23:51:40] <alex_joni> anyone seen this book http://www.cartertools.com/cnchand.html ?
[23:52:12] <SWPadnos> heard of it, but never seen it in person