#emc | Logs for 2007-03-19

[00:01:58] <sent> ok, thank you very much :)
[00:12:27] <Jymmmm> I'm working on the belt/disc sander I got from HF yesterday. when I place a steel rule across the disc, I can see the outside is higher than the inside. I've been trying to sand down the high spots to get it flat, but it seems that nothing is happening at all, but I KNOW it's removing material (60grit, 320grit, and even a file). Even if the platen is warped, shouldn't I still be able to flaten it?
[00:19:30] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich who makes american sanders?
[00:19:45] <jmkasunich> damfino
[00:19:48] <jmkasunich> americans?
[00:20:05] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich then how in the hell do you have american tools? 1886?
[00:20:14] <skullworks-PGAB> There is flat... then there is flat in a perpendicular plane to the rotational axis
[00:20:51] <Jymmmm> skullworks-PGAB that dind't answer my question (did it?)
[00:20:59] <skullworks-PGAB> A good surface plae would make things easier
[00:21:12] <Jymmmm> skullworks-PGAB again, that dind't answer my question (did it?)
[00:21:25] <skullworks-PGAB> not sure what to tell you about doing it by hand
[00:21:31] <Jymmmm> sander on, and pushing a file againes tthe front of it.
[00:21:47] <Jymmmm> againest the face that is
[00:21:51] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: find somebody with a lathe and have them face it
[00:21:53] <skullworks-PGAB> it can be done - but thats more art skill than science
[00:22:05] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich whats your address I can ship it to
[00:22:30] <skullworks-PGAB> whats the dia?
[00:22:33] <Jymmmm> 6"
[00:22:41] <jmkasunich> whats the material? alum?
[00:22:58] <Jymmmm> You guess do understand what I'm doing, right? yes aluminum
[00:23:10] <jmkasunich> there is a table with a miter slot, right?
[00:23:23] <Jymmmm> I'm sandgint eh metal disc, instead the the disc sanding material
[00:23:45] <Jymmmm> I'm working on the belt/disc sander I got from HF yesterday. when I place a steel rule across the disc, I can see the outside is higher than the inside. I've been trying to sand down the high spots to get it flat, but it seems that nothing is happening at all, but I KNOW it's removing material (60grit, 320grit). Even if the platen is warped, shouldn't I still be able to flaten it?
[00:23:49] <Jymmmm> bah
[00:23:51] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: you are trying to do lathe work, but you are using abraisve instead of a lathe tool
[00:24:08] <Jymmmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93981
[00:24:21] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: it takes a HELL of a lot of sanding to remove 0.005 from a large area
[00:24:30] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich but I should be able to reduce the high spots with sandpaper
[00:24:48] <Jymmmm> it's spinning 1780 RPM
[00:24:55] <skullworks-PGAB> if you have something very solid backing the paper
[00:25:09] <jmkasunich> if it is what you described, the "high spots" are the entire circumference of the disk
[00:25:17] <Jymmmm> what, puching a file againest the front isn't abrasive enough?
[00:25:26] <jmkasunich> no, its not
[00:25:36] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich no, just the outside is high.
[00:25:43] <jmkasunich> duh
[00:25:56] <Jymmmm> ?
[00:25:57] <jmkasunich> the entire outside, thought, not just one spot per revolution
[00:26:34] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich Yes, and it's spinning 1780 RPM, I should be able to reduce the whole outter edge. I should in the hell can in the middle with 320 sandpaper
[00:26:43] <Jymmmm> I can that is
[00:26:42] <jmkasunich> is it wobbly (one spot high, turn it 180 degrees and then its low), or is it just cupped (high all they way around the outside)
[00:27:01] <jmkasunich> never work
[00:27:10] <jmkasunich> stop and think for a minute
[00:27:13] <Jymmmm> I put a straight edge againes the face (centerd), turne d90 deg, and still "bowed"
[00:27:25] <jmkasunich> when you file on something, you drag many file teeth over a single spot on the part
[00:27:36] <jmkasunich> each tooth can take a chip, then move clear and the chip falls out
[00:28:01] <jmkasunich> same with sanding - many grains of abrasive move over a single spot, each takes a chip, then the chips have a change to fall clear
[00:28:03] <Jymmmm> I was able to remove all the original ridges using 60 grit sandpaper
[00:28:28] <jmkasunich> you are holding a single file tooth or grain of paper in one place and running metal constantly past it
[00:28:32] <jmkasunich> it can't cut efficiently
[00:28:45] <Jymmmm> no, running back and forth
[00:29:01] <jmkasunich> running back and forth a few times a second
[00:29:28] <Jymmmm> ok, I dont have access to a lathe, so any other siggestions?
[00:29:30] <jmkasunich> wheel is spinning 30 times a second, so you are dragging 18" (6" times pi) of aluminum past the grit
[00:29:52] <jmkasunich> I already asked you, does it have a miter gage slot?
[00:30:19] <Jymmmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93981
[00:30:27] <Jymmmm> there's a pic of it
[00:30:40] <jmkasunich> yes or no would have been easier
[00:30:47] <jmkasunich> so, it has a miter gage
[00:30:52] <alex_joni> what's a miter gage?
[00:31:03] <Jymmmm> alex_joni the thing on your wrist
[00:31:22] <jmkasunich> the thing that slides in a slot and is used to hold a workpiece perpendicular (or at an angle) to the sanding wheel
[00:31:41] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[00:32:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[00:32:14] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:32:16] <Jymmmm> alex_joni sorry, thought you were being funny.
[00:32:17] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[00:32:27] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich ok, what were you thinking?
[00:32:34] <mschuhmacher> night
[00:32:36] <jmkasunich> is the slot parallel to the wheel?
[00:32:37] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: no biggie
[00:32:45] <jmkasunich> should be, but the wheel should be flat too, so....
[00:32:59] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich: I square it up best I could.
[00:33:05] <Jymmmm> +d
[00:33:28] <jmkasunich> I don't think you can adjust the slot parallelism to the wheel
[00:34:02] <Jymmmm> It's just a rod
[00:34:04] <alex_joni> judging from that pic I think you can (using some force)
[00:34:17] <Jymmmm> anywho... what was your idea?
[00:34:25] <alex_joni> it seems only connected to the left side (where you can also tilt it)
[00:34:27] <jmkasunich> wtf Jymmmm, are we even in the same universe?
[00:34:52] <jmkasunich> where are you getting "rod" from?
[00:35:17] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich : I have to leave to work soon. You were asking about the parallel of the miter slot for a reason, I'm asking what that reason is?
[00:35:40] <unter_e> use the miter gage as a lathe tool?
[00:35:45] <jmkasunich> trying to figure out how to improvise a way to turn the faceplate flat
[00:35:48] <cradek> did alex and I mess up jogging?
[00:35:57] <alex_joni> cradek: only a bit
[00:36:01] <alex_joni> cradek: for jogwheels
[00:36:07] <jmkasunich> use the miter gage as the "cross-slide" of a lathe, yes
[00:36:09] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich using the miter slot to hold a lathe tool?
[00:36:11] <alex_joni> so it's your fault :D
[00:36:16] <Jymmmm> ah, ok.
[00:36:22] <cradek> uh-oh
[00:36:24] <jmkasunich> the tool part needs to be attached to the miter gage or somethign that slides in the slot
[00:36:47] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich it's forged al and pretty sloppy
[00:37:06] <ds3> take it out and pop it in a lathe
[00:37:12] <ds3> face it off, then remount
[00:37:14] <Jymmmm> SMACK
[00:37:26] <jmkasunich> slop of the gage's bar in the slot doesn't much matter, since you can press it against one side of the slot (preload)
[00:37:56] <unter_e> best to put an indicator on the miter gage first, see what you learn from that
[00:38:01] <jmkasunich> ds3: 1) he doesn't have a lathe, and 2) the shaft to disk attachment is probably such that if you don't do it in place, it will have runout when you put it back on
[00:38:17] <ds3> oh that situation
[00:38:18] <ds3> Hmmm
[00:38:37] <ds3> Jymmmm: how are you standing it? sandpaper on a LARGE block?
[00:38:40] <jmkasunich> thing is, I don't know what he does have - in terms of tools, etc
[00:38:59] <Jymmmm> 3) the head of the setscrew striped out that holds the dosc to the shaft
[00:39:00] <unter_e> even the really nice old delta american made sanders like that were a bear to work on
[00:39:15] <ds3> s/standing/sanding/
[00:39:35] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich basic hand tools, no cutters to speak of.
[00:39:57] <unter_e> is the disk made out of an identifiable metal?
[00:40:03] <Jymmmm> al
[00:40:48] <jmkasunich> how thick is the wheel>
[00:40:51] <Jymmmm> I have a 4" hand grinder
[00:41:04] <jmkasunich> are we turning thin sheet into even thinner? or is there some meat to it?
[00:41:31] <Jymmmm> no meat
[00:41:32] <unter_e> my thought is that stress relief could turn this thing into a pringle
[00:41:47] <jmkasunich> its already a saucer
[00:42:02] <Jymmmm> with webbing on the back to reinforce it
[00:42:20] <jmkasunich> 4" hand grinder eh....
[00:42:26] <jmkasunich> angle grinder?
[00:42:27] <unter_e> saucer far preferable to pringle
[00:42:29] <Jymmmm> yeah
[00:42:35] <ds3> maybe there is internal casting stress? as you take material off, it warps more to relief the stress?
[00:42:55] <jmkasunich> so far I don't think he's managed to get much material off
[00:43:05] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: do you own a dial indicator?
[00:43:09] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich yeah
[00:43:15] <toastydeath> i still promote my idea of using adhesive backed sandpaper on a surface plate =(
[00:43:31] <robin_sz> or even on a sheet of glass
[00:43:43] <unter_e> then you have to take it off, he probably can't
[00:43:43] <jmkasunich> ok, figure out how to attack the dial indicator to the miter gage, and slide the gage back and forth to measure the amount of cupping
[00:43:57] <Jymmmm> k
[00:44:05] <jmkasunich> make sure you press the gage against one side of the slot to take up the slop
[00:44:30] <robin_sz> sounds doomed :)
[00:44:36] <jmkasunich> if its 0.000 in the middle, 0.015 on one end, and 0.005 on the other, that means
[00:44:51] <robin_sz> pringle!
[00:45:04] <jmkasunich> that the slot is out of parallel by 0.010, and the disk is cupped by 0.010 too
[00:45:36] <robin_sz> or its not cupped evenly, like a pringle
[00:45:36] <jmkasunich> to be sure, mark a spot on the wheel near the edge, measure at that spot, then turn the wheel 180 and measure at the mark again (other end of the slot()
[00:46:04] <jmkasunich> the marked spot and 180 rotate cancels out the pringle effect, and tells him if the miter gage slot is parallel
[00:46:15] <robin_sz> mmmm
[00:46:26] <jmkasunich> once he knows if its parallel, he can slowly rotate the wheel and see if its a pringle or just a saucer
[00:46:43] <jmkasunich> he's being very quiet
[00:46:44] <unter_e> he can spin it at 3 miter gage locations to find out the pringle-tudedness
[00:46:48] <Jymmmm> Ok, is there a good brand of sanders I can look at?
[00:46:54] <ds3> GD&T lab with import tools ;)
[00:46:57] <Jymmmm> on the smaller side
[00:47:08] <unter_e> you probably can't afford a good one
[00:47:12] <robin_sz> I suspect its going to involve some cheese flavouring and salr
[00:47:12] <robin_sz> t
[00:47:23] <jmkasunich> there are good, and there are cheap, and there are cheap that can be made (reasonably) good with some work
[00:47:26] <ds3> the home depot ones by delta might be a bit better
[00:47:36] <robin_sz> Makita are good
[00:47:43] <robin_sz> not expensive either
[00:47:53] <unter_e> Makita doesn't make something like this, do they?
[00:48:10] <robin_sz> hand grinder?
[00:48:23] <unter_e> no, stationary belt/disk sander
[00:48:36] <Jymmmm> robin_sz http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93981
[00:49:08] <robin_sz> looking
[00:49:17] <robin_sz> wow that site is slow
[00:49:27] <robin_sz> still waiting ...
[00:50:03] <robin_sz> ok,
[00:50:22] <robin_sz> I thought you had a lathe?
[00:50:34] <SWPadnos> his sander is the lathe :)
[00:50:38] <robin_sz> heh
[00:51:05] <unter_e> we used to call the sander "the poor man's milling machine"
[00:51:28] <unter_e> don't think it works so good as a lathe
[00:51:56] <Jymmmm> ok, any company name of quality bench sanders?
[00:52:16] <robin_sz> as in QUALITY with a capital $$$?
[00:52:20] <unter_e> wilton, powermatic
[00:52:30] <SWPadnos> Baldor
[00:52:41] <SWPadnos> (usually grinders though)
[00:52:46] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: anything less than $300 or so will probably have about the same amount of suck
[00:52:53] <Jymmmm> Yes, I know.
[00:53:06] <unter_e> I suspect grizzley and jet are significantly better
[00:53:08] <jmkasunich> you have a 4" angle grinder.... you have a dial indicator
[00:53:13] <jmkasunich> you have (I think) a brain
[00:53:17] <unter_e> at least you could whine until you get good parts
[00:53:34] <jmkasunich> you can measure the extent of the badness
[00:53:40] <jmkasunich> if its a pringle, thats a problem
[00:54:12] <jmkasunich> if its a saucer, but the cup amount is 1/4 of the plate thickness or more, thats a problem
[00:54:20] <jmkasunich> s/plate/disk/
[00:54:26] <robin_sz> I would hav thought a $300 old lathe would have been a better bet? no?
[00:54:28] <Jymmmm> Yeah I understand
[00:54:45] <jmkasunich> if the cum amount is only 0.015, and the disk is 0.100 thick, then you can fix it
[00:54:50] <jmkasunich> s/cum/cup/
[00:54:59] <Jymmmm> scum cup huh?
[00:54:59] <robin_sz> I guess a lathe take sup more room, lots of weight etc
[00:55:14] <jmkasunich> a lathe isn't a very good sander
[00:55:27] <unter_e> those mini-lathes at harbor freight aren't supposed to be that bad
[00:55:51] <ds3> always an option to laminate a sheet of 0.125 alum. on it
[00:56:15] <unter_e> you can put a drum in a lathe and sand a lot of things
[00:56:21] <alex_joni> would wood be too weak ?
[00:56:28] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: can you visualise holding the angle grinder so that the disk is almost parallel to the sander disk, with the lower edge of the grinder disk touching the sander disk, and the upper edge 1/8" away from the sander disk?
[00:56:31] <unter_e> face plate would be a heck of a lot better than what he has
[00:57:01] <ds3> unter_e: I would differ.... my headstock was skewed, the tail stock is still too high, the lathe bed is uneven in thickness (so a cam clamp doesn't work very well).....
[00:57:15] <unter_e> you win
[00:57:33] <toastydeath> lol
[00:57:35] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich Yeah, just trying to figure out have to hold it steady and not gouge the sanding disc
[00:57:36] <toastydeath> VICTORY
[00:57:44] <unter_e> I guess people just like them cause they are cheap then
[00:57:47] <robin_sz> right, bedtime
[00:57:51] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: sanding disk should be spinning
[00:57:53] <robin_sz> happy bodging
[00:58:06] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich oh you mean the grinder unpowered
[00:58:13] <jmkasunich> no, grinder spinning too
[00:58:39] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: would wood be too weak for holding the sandpaper? (thinking about glueing a piece of wood on the disk, and grind that till it's flat, then use that as the regular base for grindpaper)
[00:58:47] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich Yeah, I still have to hold it steady.
[00:59:19] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: getting the wood flat is only a little easier than getting the aluminum flat
[00:59:34] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: s/easier/faster/
[01:00:08] <Jymmmm> ok, back in 90 - off to work.
[01:00:13] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: with the sander spinning, you won't be able to remove material very fast (faster than holding stationary sandpaper against the disk, but still not so fast that you have to worry about wrecking it
[01:01:34] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich If I can clamp the angle grinder somehow sure, but this thing can eat 1/2" steel plate in the blink of an eye.
[01:01:52] <Jymmmm> ok, back in 90
[01:01:54] <SWPadnos> that's some grinder
[01:02:06] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich gives up
[01:02:35] <toastydeath> lol
[01:02:37] <SWPadnos> could be better for (what's left of) your sanity
[01:02:48] <jmkasunich> if you have money, you can buy nice tools
[01:03:06] <jmkasunich> if you have ingeniuity, you can buy cheap tools and rework them to be nice
[01:03:22] <SWPadnos> then there's eBay
[01:30:34] <skunkworks> great work on the latest release.. thank you.
[02:07:46] <a-l-p-h-a> got my lathe up and running again.
[02:07:57] <ds3> what kind of lathe is it?
[02:08:09] <a-l-p-h-a> schaublin 102, cnc-retrofix
[02:08:16] <a-l-p-h-a> http://lloydleung.com/gallery3
[02:08:33] <a-l-p-h-a> http://lloydleung.com/gallery3/Lathe_Related/
[02:11:39] <toastydeath> it would be cool to put a hardinge turret
[02:11:45] <toastydeath> on a lathe cnc retrofit
[02:28:04] <jymmm> jmkasunich, I just remembeed I have a dremel as well.
[02:28:37] <jymmm> with a couple of grinding wheels (iirc)
[02:28:57] <SWPadnos> jymmm, too small for real work, I bet
[02:29:14] <SWPadnos> your angle grinder can't be that fast - just use it carefully, with a light touch
[02:29:26] <jymmm> lol, yeah right... 15K
[02:29:33] <SWPadnos> steady your hand on the work rest
[02:29:43] <jymmm> SWPadnos, what work reat?! lol
[02:29:53] <jymmm> I'd rahter fab a fixture
[02:29:54] <SWPadnos> 15k RPM, but you don't have to press that hard
[02:29:54] <SWPadnos> or that far
[02:30:25] <jymmm> SWPadnos, you are expecting my hand to me THAT steady =)
[02:30:31] <jymmm> s/me/be/
[02:30:38] <SWPadnos> well, not every day ... :)
[02:30:42] <jymmm> lol
[02:30:48] <jymmm> SWPadnos, Hey, when you coming out?
[02:30:50] <SWPadnos> you seem like a guy who needs some Prime Rib
[02:30:54] <SWPadnos> March 31
[02:31:03] <jymmm> SWPadnos, LOL GMTA
[02:31:15] <SWPadnos> Got My T&A?
[02:31:16] <jymmm> what DAY is that?
[02:31:28] <SWPadnos> Saturday, two weeks from yesterday
[02:32:33] <SWPadnos> I get in at about * PM
[02:32:38] <SWPadnos> no, 8DGQ63VM
[02:32:43] <SWPadnos> no, 8 PM
[02:32:48] <SWPadnos> what the hell wast that?
[02:33:49] <jymmm> I dun know.
[02:34:33] <jymmm> SWPadnos, I work Sat - Wed 1900-0300
[02:34:47] <SWPadnos> ok. Thursday it is :)
[02:34:52] <jymmm> SWPadnos, =)
[02:34:55] <jymmm> brb
[02:35:15] <SWPadnos> that's my last night in town anyway - might as well get a good meal before the return flights
[02:38:59] <ds3> uh... check the kind of wheels you have... the cheap AlOxide ones are not for grinding aluminum
[02:40:16] <jymmm> ds3, whtever the kit came with.
[02:40:33] <jymmm> SWPadnos, ok, what DATE is that? I'll write a reminder
[02:40:52] <SWPadnos> Saturday, 3/31/2007, 7:53 PM
[02:41:03] <SWPadnos> unless you're talking about Thursday
[02:41:10] <jymmm> SWPadnos, no,no, I mean prime rib
[02:41:38] <SWPadnos> which is Thursday, April 5, 2007
[02:45:04] <ds3> jymmm: I think those are AlOxide wheels they are suppose to be capable of expoding if their pores get clogged (i.e. from griding aluminum)
[02:46:18] <jmkasunich> a sanding disk would be better - even if it was just rubber backed
[02:46:45] <jymmm> I have some snading drums for the dremel
[02:47:13] <jymmm> some sanding discs too 3/4" diameter
[02:49:11] <Twingy> ok, new gcam release is being polished
[03:30:40] <ejholmgren> yar?
[03:31:19] <ejholmgren> I have motor mounts fiured out for my steppers :)
[03:31:57] <toastydeath> for grinding any nonferrous material you use silicon carbide
[03:32:00] <toastydeath> the green wheels
[03:32:06] <toastydeath> re: above
[03:32:07] <ejholmgren> mdf and #10-24 hardware :(
[03:44:58] <jymmm> ejholmgren, as long as you dont try to use the EDGE of MDF, you'll be fine.
[03:46:23] <jymmm> ds3, Cool, explosions! lol
[03:46:33] <jymmm> I got green I think
[03:46:39] <jymmm> and pink
[05:12:35] <CIA-18> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (command.c control.c mot_priv.h motion.c motion.h): one more round on keyboard jog / handwheel jog / homing interlocking
[05:17:39] <jmkasunich> goodnight everybody
[05:17:56] <tomp> nite
[05:18:24] <skullworks-PGAB> good wook, thanks
[05:18:56] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB needs his glasses cleaned.
[05:38:45] <ejholmgren> wookie?
[08:42:33] <anonimasu> hm
[08:42:36] <anonimasu> :)
[08:43:16] <Dallur> good morning alex, you seem to be in a good mood today
[08:43:50] <anonimasu> alex?
[08:43:57] <anonimasu> but I'm Anders :D
[08:44:18] <Dallur> anonimasu: Sorry, I must be getting dislexic ,,, bonk
[08:44:39] <anonimasu> what's up?
[08:44:59] <Dallur> anonimasu: spent the weekend redoing my plasma control config
[08:45:11] <anonimasu> I'm waiting for somone to show up with drawings so i can make the parts i need to cut today
[08:45:19] <Dallur> anonimasu: trying to make it human readable :P
[08:45:26] <anonimasu> oh
[08:45:35] <Dallur> anonimasu: Did you order a THC the other day ?
[08:46:06] <anonimasu> no
[08:46:16] <anonimasu> i'll do it soon :)
[08:46:21] <anonimasu> 09:47 < anonimasu> 06:12 -!- Tom_L [n=Tl@ip68-103-193-191.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit []
[08:46:24] <anonimasu> whoops..
[08:46:30] <anonimasu> Your item left the United States from LOS ANGELES AMC at 2:06 PM on March 15, 2007.
[08:46:36] <anonimasu> that was what I were going to post..
[08:46:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: You going with Rutex or ?
[08:46:56] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:47:14] <anonimasu> 2 more geckos comming :)
[08:47:29] <Dallur> anonimasu: When I saw their site I kinda wished I had ordered from them :D
[08:47:42] <anonimasu> but that's non plama thc's right?
[08:47:52] <Dallur> anonimasu: They also have plasma
[08:48:02] <anonimasu> then once I convert my mill(Z axis) to servo, I'll have drives for the lathe :)
[08:48:10] <anonimasu> nice
[08:48:30] <anonimasu> with a thc having the plate level isnt as important :)
[08:48:43] <anonimasu> it's hard setting a 2m plate perfectly level..
[08:48:51] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup, it's the thin stuff that's problematic
[08:49:04] <anonimasu> this stuff is 20mm > 40mm..
[08:49:05] <anonimasu> but still
[08:49:14] <anonimasu> a few degrees in the centre makes for a big diff in the end..
[08:49:15] <Dallur> anonimasu: and even if you get it level warping can still mess with your height
[08:49:41] <anonimasu> I hooked up the cutting gas to emc also :)
[08:49:53] <anonimasu> so it does the preheat and stuff automagically now
[08:49:59] <Dallur> anonimasu: ahh nice
[08:50:46] <anonimasu> now all that's left is re-ignition..
[08:50:48] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm hook up a HF starter unit from a master blower and you can auto-ignite the gas aswell :D
[08:51:19] <anonimasu> I just need a subroutine in my program to re-ignite on each part-start..
[08:51:42] <Dallur> anonimasu: I't should be easy in HAL/Classicladder
[08:51:45] <anonimasu> a conditional one.. so I can toggle the "skip lines with /"
[08:51:56] <anonimasu> I'm using a real plc via the serial port :)
[08:52:13] <Dallur> anonimasu: :D
[08:52:47] <Dallur> brb afk for a couple of minutes
[08:52:52] <anonimasu> I guess I could pause and run a mdi command and go to the line it dies on..
[08:52:58] <anonimasu> though it's kind of overkill..
[08:53:11] <anonimasu> ok
[08:54:02] <alex_joni> morning all
[08:54:06] <anonimasu> morning alex
[09:00:21] <Dallur> morning alex (again) :)
[09:00:52] <alex_joni> :P
[09:04:11] <anonimasu> grr!
[09:08:52] <alex_joni> anonimasu: ??
[09:09:07] <anonimasu> 09:47 < Dallur> good morning alex, you seem to be in a good mood today
[09:09:07] <anonimasu> 09:48 < anonimasu> alex?
[09:09:07] <anonimasu> 09:48 < anonimasu> but I'm Anders :D
[09:09:18] <alex_joni> yeah, I saw that
[09:09:27] <alex_joni> anonimasu: morning Alex !
[09:09:30] <anonimasu> haha
[09:09:37] <alex_joni> :P
[09:23:47] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[09:58:03] <Vq^> hello folks
[09:58:13] <Vq^> alex_joni: hows the swedish lessons comming? :o)
[10:41:23] <anonimasu> bork bork
[10:43:24] <xemet> http://www.albaria.com/mondellowebcam.htm uhm...maybe I should go to the beach instead of studying
[11:38:52] <anonimasu> damn you!
[11:38:55] <anonimasu> it's snowing outside :)
[11:42:51] <skullworks-PGAB> damn you #2 as it is a good 1200 miles to the nearest coast...
[11:44:17] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB used to play hookie in college and go to the beach when he Lived in Los Angeles
[13:02:46] <skunkworks_> :) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34550
[13:03:21] <SWPadnos> now where have I seen that question before? :)
[13:04:49] <skunkworks_> I wonder ;)
[13:10:34] <SWPadnos> http://www.glumbert.com/media/irack
[13:44:44] <SWPadnos> hey rayh, let me know when you show up
[13:45:09] <cncjunior> hi !
[13:52:17] <jepler> good morning cncjunior
[13:53:14] <cncjunior> jepler: hello, again
[13:58:05] <rayh> I'm here SWPadnos
[13:58:24] <rayh> but I may show up as a bit hazy.
[13:58:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: hi
[13:58:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: re the PC shutdown with ACPI disabled
[13:58:51] <alex_joni> I think it's a single instruction that does the actual halt
[13:59:02] <alex_joni> and it could be hacked to work even without ACPI
[13:59:10] <SWPadnos> could be
[13:59:15] <alex_joni> but then again, there are so many bogus motherboards & BIOS'es out there
[13:59:22] <SWPadnos> halt is easy, shutdown a little less so
[13:59:27] <alex_joni> that I don't plan to even suggest it
[13:59:38] <SWPadnos> rayh, now I can't remember why I was asking for you :)
[14:00:15] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/author.py: merge rev 1.4: support spindle speed specification
[14:00:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it was a plot.. ray asked me to distract you :P
[14:00:35] <rayh> I've had at least a dozen brain farts already this am.
[14:00:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:24:02] <rayh> new release 1h46m20s darn I hate dialup in the mega release age.
[14:24:38] <jepler> rayh: and we'll probably have to make another one real soon :(
[14:25:23] <cradek> yeah you might want to skip it and jump right to testing cvs v2_1_branch
[14:26:09] <rayh> I was thinking I wanted to run some tests on the release. Maybe that's what I get for thinking.
[14:26:35] <rayh> Glad they added a cancel button on that widget.
[14:26:57] <jepler> was that 1:46 download time other stuff than just emc? I thought the package would take around 15 minutes to download on a dial-up modem
[14:32:59] <rayh> You must not be thinking of a youpper dialup.
[14:33:15] <rayh> It's two soup cans and a long string.
[14:33:43] <jepler> the taughter a string the higher its bandwidth. is your string loose?
[14:34:06] <rayh> Yep. I use that "steel" fishing line.
[14:34:29] <rayh> 2k on a really good day and 600 on a not so good day.
[14:34:55] <rayh> With long dead spaces when they start the computer labs at one of the schools.
[14:35:45] <anonimasu> ouch :/
[14:52:18] <cradek> I like that apt resumes failed downloads
[14:56:34] <rayh> bacl later guys.
[15:09:19] <cncjunior> i want to use motion adaptive control in a range greater than 100% . where to change for this ?
[15:10:07] <cradek> you'd have to change the source to allow that - adaptive feed only slows down currently
[15:10:18] <xemet> hello
[15:11:00] <xemet> anyone knows if alex and jmkasunich had found the problem with jogwheels?
[15:11:44] <cradek> yes I think so, last night
[15:11:54] <cncjunior> cradek : i understand this but i need to override faster . which file is the source for this ?
[15:12:08] <cradek> but it still needs more testing I think - it won't be ready right away
[15:12:46] <cradek> xemet: you could downgrade if you need your jogwheel to work right...
[15:13:25] <xemet> cradek: no, it was just for know if effectively there was a problem or was only a problem of mine
[15:13:37] <cradek> xemet: it's a bug, it's not you
[15:14:19] <xemet> cradek: ok at least I can sto trying to change numbers in all configuration files :)
[15:14:24] <xemet> stop
[15:14:29] <cradek> yeah don't do that!
[15:14:42] <cradek> you can easily downgrade with apt-get install emc2=1:2.1.2
[15:15:03] <xemet> maybe 2.1.1?
[15:15:12] <xemet> it worked *before* the 2.1.2
[15:15:23] <cradek> is 2.1.3 still bad?
[15:15:28] <xemet> yes
[15:15:33] <cradek> ok (argh)
[15:16:18] <xemet> tried yesterday...you can read the archive, we have talked a lot yesterday about that
[15:16:21] <cradek> cncjunior: I think that code is in src/emc/motion but I don't remember the details - you'll have to study it a bit
[15:16:51] <cncjunior> cradek : thank you. i am serching for an optimum for spindle speed and feed.
[15:17:21] <cradek> if it doesn't need to be realtime you can use halui's feed override (which works just like the slider on the screen)
[15:17:42] <cradek> adaptive feed is meant for EDM where you slow down according to the gap voltage
[15:17:45] <xemet> cncjunior: there is a slider in AXIS to override up to 120%
[15:18:08] <cradek> you set the top feed override value in the ini file, some configs have 1.2, but you can use any number
[15:18:23] <cncjunior> xemet: yes but with the slider i work slow,
[15:18:37] <xemet> cncjunior: slow?
[15:19:04] <cradek> cncjunior: I don't remember - did you ever say what you're doing?
[15:20:04] <cncjunior> cradek : yes, i have a motion adaptive cnc project,
[15:20:44] <cradek> what external thing controls the feed?
[15:21:09] <cncjunior> cradek : linux + rtai + emc is a very good platform for this research.
[15:25:24] <cncjunior> cradek : i will cotrol the feed using two pins from parport
[15:27:28] <xemet> cncjunior: it seems interesting!
[15:28:17] <cncjunior> cradek : thank you, yes, the adaptive feed is in the /src/emc/motion/motion.c
[15:29:24] <cncjunior> cradek : i will change the source and recompile all with make. it's ok ?
[15:33:40] <skunkworks_> a-l-p-h-a: ball valve?
[15:34:57] <a-l-p-h-a> I always ask in the wrong chan.
[15:35:07] <a-l-p-h-a> skunkworks, does my other idea work?
[15:35:08] <skunkworks_> so do I ;)
[15:35:42] <a-l-p-h-a> so it's like a T, with the base for flow.
[15:36:41] <jepler> cncjunior: of course you may change the source of emc -- it's Free software.
[15:37:39] <cncjunior> jepler: i am not an expert in linux and c. i hope that after recompile it will work
[15:38:01] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, I have a aquarium water pump, that's like some silly amount of GPM. I need it to flow slower, not faster. :) The oil soluable coolant is spraying everywhere.
[15:38:24] <cradek> can you cycle it on and off?
[15:39:06] <a-l-p-h-a> yeah, I could... but wouldn't that hurt the pump?
[15:39:35] <cradek> I don't know
[15:40:08] <a-l-p-h-a> k
[15:40:36] <jepler> cncjunior: look for this comment in emc/motion/control.c: /* read and clamp (0.0 to 1.0) adaptive feed HAL pin */
[15:41:23] <cncjunior> jepler : ok.
[15:44:22] <xemet> cncjunior: I've changed my sourcecode and recompiled it. If I did succeed in doing this (yeah...with a lot of help here) you can be sure you can do it. Because I'm not a C espert or developer etc...
[15:45:14] <cncjunior> xemet: thank you for encourage me.
[15:45:31] <xemet> cncjunior: if it doesn't work, you can just ask or you can return to the previous state...
[15:45:59] <xemet> cncjunior: it will work
[15:46:31] <cncjunior> xemet: i am working on it right now.
[15:47:28] <xemet> cncjunior: if it doesn't work, remember: ask always to jepler :) he *knows*.
[15:48:17] <cncjunior> jepler: ok, thank you again.
[15:52:03] <cncjunior> jepler: in /*read and clamp (0.0 to 1.0) .../ section i changed 1.0 to 1.5. i hope that it will work.
[15:54:21] <jepler> ask the #emc channel .. xemet may think I'm the smartest, but he's wrong.
[15:56:55] <cncjunior> jepler : i found also in motion.c something about adaptive control. i changed the values also in that file.
[15:57:59] <xemet> jepler: I don't think so, only I've found you there often than others. But I'm sure everyone here helps
[15:58:32] <cradek> cncjunior: all I see in motion.c is the default set to 1.0, which you don't want to change
[15:59:42] <cncjunior> cradek : i will put back the initial value...sorry
[16:00:44] <xemet> friend of mine ask: to update emc2 offline (his PC is not connected to internet) what is the best way?
[16:01:28] <jepler> xemet: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates at the bottom
[16:02:50] <xemet> jepler: thanks
[16:04:16] <xemet> never installed from .deb ...how to do that? just click on it?
[16:04:28] <cradek> I think that works
[16:04:31] <a-l-p-h-a> xemet, yup.
[16:04:48] <a-l-p-h-a> xemet, unless you're on a RH distro, instead of a debian distro.
[16:05:43] <jepler> I just added this text:
[16:05:43] <jepler> .deb files can be installed or upgraded from the commandline:
[16:05:45] <jepler> $ sudo dpkg -i filename.deb
[16:05:45] <jepler> depending on your system, double-clicking them in the file browser may also install or upgrade the package.
[16:06:00] <jepler> I don't actually know about double-clicking because I'm a commandline user who refuses to change
[16:08:24] <xemet> yeah...I'm a clicking user who tries to learn commandline... :)
[16:24:43] <alex_joni> xemet: hi
[16:25:09] <alex_joni> xemet: seems it was a bug you discovered in 2.1.3 (a different one than the one from 2.1.2)
[16:32:05] <xemet> alex: hi
[16:32:25] <xemet> alex: yes cradek told me
[17:40:45] <tomp> re adaptive feedrate: does emc begin with adaptive feedrate multiplier at 100% and then reduce?
[17:40:56] <tomp> isnt the % override just proportional to pin value?
[17:41:04] <tomp> if the state of the pin began at half of it's float range, this would appear as 50% and alllow up and down ranging without code changes.
[17:41:08] <tomp> beginning at 50% of the pin's range would act 'like' 0 to 200%. beginning at 66% value to act 'like' 0 to 150% override ( 2 parts of 3 )
[17:41:22] <SWPadnos> AF can range from 0.0 to 1.0, and is multiplied by FO and afeedrate to get a "target feed rate"
[17:41:38] <SWPadnos> I think it's only used if some M code turns it on
[17:41:42] <SWPadnos> (or a G code)
[17:41:50] <a-l-p-h-a> mango juice + sprite.... yummmmmmmmmm.
[17:43:30] <tomp> yes , if a sensor value out was 0 to 10 V, scaled to 0 to 1 v, but the initial state was .5 v, then it could range up and down. what .5V means can be set externally in the control hardware, leaving the control software alone. (acts like an offset )
[17:45:58] <SWPadnos> tomp, yes, but all the programmed feedrates would be cut in half
[17:46:07] <SWPadnos> you'd get 100 IPM when you program 200 IPM
[17:46:10] <tomp> yes lowers resolution
[17:46:34] <tomp> and yes, you 'lie' about the F
[17:46:45] <tomp> but requires no code
[17:47:01] <SWPadnos> if there's a FO input (HAL input), then you could multiply that by 2 to compensate
[17:47:11] <SWPadnos> but I don't think there is
[17:47:11] <tomp> (aka lie)
[17:47:16] <SWPadnos> right
[17:47:21] <SWPadnos> well, sort of
[17:47:41] <SWPadnos> there's no limit on FO, other than machine accel/vel limits
[17:48:01] <SWPadnos> but I think that's an NML/UI down to motion thing, not an input pin
[17:50:27] <tomp> F0? is that same as MAX_VELOCITY ?
[17:51:44] <SWPadnos> sorry - FO = feed override
[17:51:52] <SWPadnos> like the sliders in the GUIs
[17:52:12] <tomp> ok, not F' but override, k
[17:52:56] <tomp> also cncjunior is wanting 2 overrides, if he wants to control feed and speed vs feed or speed
[18:00:46] <lerneaen_hydra> jmkasunich; you there?
[18:36:26] <twice2> does anyone have skencil installed on dapper? I'd like to try out jepler's gcode plugin on something
[18:58:56] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: a quick hack would be to set the adaptive feed override at 50%, and allow for up/down control, then set the GUI feed override (either from the GUI or using halui) to 200%
[19:07:03] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: logging was deprecated long ago. use Halscope instead.
[19:14:49] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
[19:15:05] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: what did you do? ;)
[19:15:27] <alex_joni> fscked it :)
[19:15:58] <alex_joni> I'll fix in it a second
[19:17:36] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/po/Submakefile: emclog was removed, beeing long deprecated. Use Halscope instead
[19:17:53] <skunkworks_> I have to hook up internet access at the new house. The only game in town is cable.
[19:18:07] <alex_joni> I have cable at home.. works pretty ok
[19:18:54] <alex_joni> should be getting 4 Mbit soon (they just upgraded the service)
[19:21:56] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot1_log.txt
[19:22:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waits on the new builds
[19:24:10] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
[19:25:18] <skunkworks_> it will be a bit more expensive than I have now.
[19:25:26] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
[19:25:39] <skunkworks_> I will probably go with the 1mbit down and 256 up
[19:25:39] <cradek> jeez alex
[19:25:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni blushes
[19:26:02] <alex_joni> :-P
[19:26:13] <alex_joni> the LTS nonrealtime didn't barf yet
[19:26:14] <skunkworks_> Good thing jmkasunich isn't home - he would be pissed ;)
[19:26:21] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: how so?
[19:26:30] <alex_joni> those things happen on each commit anyways
[19:26:36] <alex_joni> even if it doesn't fail..
[19:26:35] <skunkworks_> rebuilding slows his computer down.
[19:26:38] <skunkworks_> ah
[19:26:52] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ is just giving alex_joni crap
[19:27:50] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: thanks, but I seem to manage myself just fine
[19:28:19] <skunkworks_> :) weren't you taking a trip again - or are you back?
[19:28:46] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: didnt' make it, something came up
[19:31:27] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[19:33:26] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[19:35:16] <skunkworks_> woo hoo :)
[19:36:07] <alex_joni> yeah, one more to go
[19:38:19] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[19:39:37] <CIA-18> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[20:06:47] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: doc fixes - there are new pins for analog jogging
[20:17:44] <skunkworks_> wedsday at 3:30 for cable hook up. Excited. ;)
[20:18:39] <skunkworks_> wednesday
[20:18:42] <xemet> hi
[20:18:52] <skunkworks_> Hi
[20:19:22] <xemet> a friend of mine says he misses steps when going to low speeds, any advice? what should he change in the ini?
[20:20:06] <alex_joni> xemet: sounds like a motor problem to me
[20:20:08] <cradek> that sounds like a hardware problem, not configuration
[20:20:12] <anonimasu> xemet: what kind of drives does your friend have?
[20:20:51] <alex_joni> when 3 people say HW not Sw.. then it's most likely it's a HW issue :P
[20:21:01] <cradek> true
[20:21:02] <xemet> sorry...I don't know nothing about its hardware...I've read about this problem today in the forum
[20:21:28] <xemet> the only strange thing is that he says that at same speeds using kcam the motors run ok
[20:21:49] <alex_joni> xemet: it might be a strange timing his drives need
[20:22:16] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:22:29] <SWPadnos> other than spurious direction reversals, I can't think of any reason why low speed operation would cause problems when higher speeds don't
[20:23:05] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: sounds like a resonance issue
[20:23:18] <cradek> I think there's not enough information to make any helpful suggestion
[20:23:19] <xemet> he says he has problems at low speed and high speed...no problem at medium speed
[20:23:31] <cradek> except "troubleshoot some more"
[20:23:33] <xemet> haigh speed I think it is normal
[20:23:47] <xemet> all drivers have a limit...
[20:23:53] <anonimasu> hm, adequately sized motors shouldnt have a problem..
[20:23:54] <jepler> he should verify that the step waveform timings match what his drive expects. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[20:24:09] <xemet> anyway...you're right, not enough informations
[20:24:13] <anonimasu> yeah, and post what drives/ahrdware he's using
[20:24:16] <SWPadnos> the sofrware should be configured to not exceed the limit of the drivers, so there shouldn't be ny problems at high speed either
[20:24:19] <cradek> good advice jepler
[20:24:20] <SWPadnos> s/ny/sny/
[20:24:24] <SWPadnos> s/ny/any/
[20:24:36] <alex_joni> snynanny
[20:24:47] <SWPadnos> rmmmber the sffrwssffware
[20:24:49] <anonimasu> :D
[20:24:57] <anonimasu> how nicely does the lathe support work?
[20:25:07] <SWPadnos> I think it's great
[20:25:11] <alex_joni> the support is terrible
[20:25:13] <SWPadnos> (I have no lathe though)
[20:25:18] <xemet> SWPadnos: yes, he configured it but again...with kcam it is ok and with EMC2 not...
[20:25:22] <alex_joni> lathe works great
[20:25:27] <anonimasu> alex_joni: well, nice!
[20:25:39] <alex_joni> anonimasu: but there's no-one that comes to your place to install it
[20:25:39] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I've got a spare driver around soon :)
[20:25:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: aw crap
[20:25:54] <alex_joni> like I said... terrible
[20:26:00] <anonimasu> I were expecting you/lh/jmk to come and set it up
[20:26:00] <alex_joni> :D
[20:26:06] <anonimasu> :S
[20:26:10] <alex_joni> nah, cradek can do that
[20:26:10] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:26:13] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:26:13] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra pops in
[20:26:14] <cradek> who me?
[20:26:19] <alex_joni> but you can't afford him :P
[20:26:21] <anonimasu> damn
[20:26:23] <cradek> I don't know nothin' about lathes
[20:26:28] <anonimasu> cradek: liar!
[20:26:33] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu; lathe support is very nice
[20:26:35] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:26:40] <anonimasu> I'm just kidding
[20:26:42] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: nice
[20:26:46] <alex_joni> I have a big wooden support for a lathe
[20:26:50] <alex_joni> no lathe though
[20:26:58] <xemet> he is using this http://www.parsicitalia.it/ashop/ItemDetail.asp?IDItem=337&IDCategory=149& but no informations at all in the website :(
[20:27:00] <lerneaen_hydra> you'll want cam though if you're as lazy as I am
[20:27:06] <anonimasu> I'm starting to crave a bit after a lathe
[20:27:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:27:29] <anonimasu> what software are you using?
[20:27:43] <cradek> xemet: I hope he has the L297 set for half step mode
[20:28:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back at typing fIcrapfR
[20:28:32] <xemet> cradek: I don't know...is it important? I will ask...
[20:28:43] <cradek> yes very important
[20:28:56] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu; I'm using edgecam for cam stuff, very nice app
[20:28:59] <anonimasu> ok
[20:29:11] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: got any price?
[20:29:11] <anonimasu> $
[20:29:16] <xemet> I've used edgecm too...very nice!
[20:29:22] <xemet> I think expensive...
[20:29:32] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu; I get it off my school so I'm not sure, though quite expensive IIRC
[20:29:39] <anonimasu> expensive is over 4keur..
[20:29:50] <anonimasu> )
[20:29:51] <anonimasu> :)
[20:30:15] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC it's somewhere in that range (probably not a power of ten away from there=
[20:30:47] <jepler> l297 is pretty forgiving for step waveform compared to some of the others
[20:31:14] <cradek> yes it is, I use all the default timings with mine
[20:31:24] <cradek> but if it's set for full or wave stepping it's going to suck
[20:31:38] <SWPadnos> wave?
[20:31:53] <cradek> 2 coils on?
[20:31:57] <cradek> 3?
[20:32:07] <skunkworks_> 2 coils normally 2-2-2-2
[20:32:13] <cradek> ok 2
[20:32:22] <alex_joni> 2-2-2-2=-4
[20:32:31] <skunkworks_> ;)
[20:32:33] <SWPadnos> indeed
[20:36:00] <xemet> have you ever seen this: http://video.google.it/videoplay?docid=3522234692952701573&q=ferrari+scale
[20:36:24] <xemet> or this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeUMDY01uUA
[20:36:35] <xemet> ....crazy...
[20:40:24] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halui.1: docs fixes (pins weren't documented)
[20:45:07] <CIA-18> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: fixing some erroneous comments
[20:53:52] <tomp> my firefox had it's refresh hijacked. when i edited html and wanted the new version to be loaded without cache influence, i use ^AltShift click on reload. that lead me to a site instead !
[20:53:59] <tomp> i found the bugger in ~/.mozilla/firefox/6s29wplz.default/hostperm.1 which had 3 sites allowed... file.com p.moreover.com searchmachines.com ... kill these buggers!
[20:56:41] <jepler> tomp: "hostperm.1" is a normal file in a mozilla installation which lists sites you have given special cookie-handling instructions about. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Cookies "Holds preferences about which sites you allow or prohibit to set cookies, to display images, to open popup windows and to initiate extensions installation."
[20:57:46] <tomp> jepler: i used firefox's cookie manager to block those 3 sites, it didnt help, the technique is not a cookie trick
[21:00:48] <jepler> I can't say I've heard of this problem you describe
[21:02:25] <ds3> do you have autoupdates enabled?
[21:02:42] <jepler> I get firefox updates through the ubuntu update manager
[21:03:37] <tomp> hmm, good thought, there's an update allower in firefox for extensions and plugins... may need to insure those are choked off
[21:04:57] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:05:01] <anonimasu> they update automatically
[21:26:37] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:27:59] <cradek> night alex
[21:30:36] <xemet> night
[21:53:30] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/seticon.c: get rid of pre-python2.4 compatability code
[21:54:21] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/minigl.c: get rid of '#if 0' code
[21:54:57] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/_toglmodule.c: get rid of pre-python2.4 compatability code
[21:56:07] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc:
[21:56:07] <CIA-18> * get the emc version from config.h at compile time
[21:56:07] <CIA-18> * get rid of pre-python2.4 compat stuff
[21:56:07] <CIA-18> * get rid of emc1 compat stuff
[21:56:07] <CIA-18> * use a pointer to inifile so that its constructor and destructor get called
[21:56:08] <CIA-18> * assume opengl is always available (configure enforces this)
[22:04:43] <toastydeath> lordy there is ANOTHER cia?
[22:04:47] <toastydeath> what the hell.
[22:04:52] <toastydeath> how many of these bots do i have to put on my ignore list
[22:04:56] <toastydeath> IT IS ONLY SO LARGE
[22:07:58] <SWPadnos> you could try blocking CIA-*
[22:09:04] <xemet> night all
[22:09:33] <toastydeath> trying
[22:09:36] <toastydeath> hopefully that works
[22:09:45] <SWPadnos> see you xemet
[22:10:19] <SWPadnos> CIA is usually pretty quiet - it's only triggered by CVS commits or build failures
[22:11:48] <ds3> what's the min. I have to install to build EMC in the non simulator mode? (build only, do not need to run.)
[22:12:35] <SWPadnos> dunno. I'm sure it's in one of the debian control files though
[22:20:20] <ds3> time to update ALL the copyrights on each and every file ;)
[22:20:59] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: add EMC_TASK_EXEC enum so that emctop can show it
[22:21:37] <jepler> ds3: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2 gives package lists for several flavors of ubuntu and debian
[22:21:47] <jepler> e.g., http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Simulator_on_Ubuntu_6_10_Edgy_Eft
[22:22:09] <jepler> if you're using ubuntu dapper you can use the pre-built packages too, add deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2.1-sim
[22:22:17] <jepler> to your sources list and install the emc2-sim package
[22:24:35] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/emctop.py:
[22:24:35] <CIA-18> * better display of many items, such as positions
[22:24:35] <CIA-18> * make text selectable, can now select and paste into a terminal with middle button
[22:27:26] <rayh> roltek: you around
[22:27:46] <roltek> i am here
[22:28:57] <roltek> have to go eat talk to you later
[22:29:55] <rayh> I got an answer for your jerky motors
[22:30:36] <ds3> jepler: eh?
[22:31:38] <ds3> why do I need all those things just to do a build?
[22:32:02] <jepler> ds3: because they're all needed?
[22:32:26] <SWPadnos> ds3, it depends on what you want to build as well
[22:32:37] <ds3> think you are misunderstanding what I am asking
[22:33:20] <SWPadnos> I don't know if the make system allows you to build for non-simulator unless you're running an RT kernel
[22:33:33] <ds3> let me ask it differently -- I have an enviroment that can build the similator just fine (so a lot of the libs are there); I am trying to figure out what more do I need to get it to do the real build
[22:33:55] <ds3> gotcha...
[22:34:06] <ds3> I am trying to do a 'cross' build enviroment
[22:34:20] <SWPadnos> yeah - I'm not sure how much support there is for that
[22:34:42] <ds3> got it. will investigitate it myself then
[22:34:44] <jepler> it works just fine, I can build the RT dapper version while I've booted the regular kernel
[22:34:52] <SWPadnos> ok - cool
[22:34:54] <jepler> (and vice versa)
[22:35:16] <ds3> if so, there must be some additionally bits (RTAI headers and?) that is needed to make the build
[22:36:01] <jepler> look at what debian/configure does when you configure to build a realtime debian package
[22:36:08] <ds3> ok
[22:36:28] <ds3> just want to modify one of the hals to support dumb hardware
[22:37:01] <jepler> looks like linux-image-<kernel version>, rtai-modules-<kernel version> and linux-headers-<kernel version> are all put in the build-depends when configured for a realtime system
[22:38:31] <ds3> hmm
[22:55:19] <jepler> linux-image may only be necessary because rtai-modules, which also has needed header files, depends on it
[22:55:46] <ds3> sounds like I will make a RTAI linux tree and try to get it to use that for the system headers
[22:56:56] <toastydeath> doing anything kernel related on debian/ubuntu confuses me
[22:57:04] <toastydeath> mostly because i learned on slackware
[22:57:13] <toastydeath> which was just "oh hey, download the latest vanilla kernel and gogogo"
[22:57:20] <ds3> doing my best to avoid distro specific hacks
[22:57:34] <toastydeath> well i just meant getting the kernel in the first place/etc
[22:57:47] <toastydeath> "i have to download what to get the kernel?"
[22:58:05] <ds3> first thing I do when installing a system is to chuck the kernel the distro provided
[22:58:11] <toastydeath> apt-get install linux-kernel-headers linux-kernel linux-hokey-pokey
[22:58:47] <toastydeath> hmm, that might be a great idea
[22:58:49] <ds3> god I hate vim
[22:58:54] <toastydeath> what =(
[22:58:55] <toastydeath> vim is neato!
[22:59:08] <ds3> worse thing since moldy bread!
[22:59:17] <jepler> so use something else
[22:59:17] <toastydeath> vim is like the jig grinder of text editors!
[22:59:29] <toastydeath> it does everything, but only six people know how it works
[22:59:30] <ds3> I do, replacing vim with nvi is the second thing I do
[22:59:42] <ds3> except this laptop somehow still has vim on it :(
[23:00:26] <ds3> the colors are driving me nuts, then there is... n/m I will complain elsewhere
[23:01:14] <toastydeath> what colors
[23:01:28] <toastydeath> now i'm kind of interested as i have no idea what you are complaining about
[23:01:33] <ds3> the attempt at highlighting a C file
[23:01:35] <toastydeath> oh
[23:01:39] <toastydeath> type :noh
[23:02:05] <toastydeath> or maybe you are referring to syntax highlighting
[23:02:10] <toastydeath> in which case i've never tried to turn that off
[23:02:12] <ds3> it decides to use a light yellow to color the 'if' keyword and I stare at it and see just expressions with (......)
[23:02:16] <toastydeath> oh
[23:02:19] <toastydeath> whack.
[23:02:42] <toastydeath> you have like the retarded version of vim maybe?
[23:02:53] <ds3> it is the crap that fedora ships
[23:03:02] <toastydeath> yes i will go with retarded version
[23:03:03] <toastydeath> for 500, alex
[23:03:59] <ds3> this is insane... the C file looks like a lisp file at first glance :(
[23:04:18] <jepler> ds3: you may need to :set background to get appropriate contrast for the background you've chosen (light or dark)
[23:04:21] <toastydeath> "he's insane... he's losing his mind, and he feels it going"
[23:04:28] <jepler> or switch to the editor you prefer
[23:04:46] <toastydeath> bash: notepad.exe not found
[23:05:12] <ds3> jepler: on my work laptop now... forgot to put a proper vi on it :/
[23:05:13] <toastydeath> i really wish vim would integrate into everything
[23:05:26] <jepler> toastydeath: just install 'wine', then you can run notepad
[23:05:33] <toastydeath> no, i was kidding
[23:05:42] <toastydeath> i type "i" when i open up notepad
[23:05:50] <toastydeath> and wonder why an 'i' appeared
[23:06:09] <ds3> just checked, slackware still uses a sane editor...elvis ;)
[23:06:56] <toastydeath> slackware comes with like nine editors installed
[23:07:01] <toastydeath> and a broken install of x-windows
[23:10:51] <CIA-18> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py:
[23:10:51] <CIA-18> - get rid of pre-python2.4 compatability stuff
[23:10:51] <CIA-18> - get rid of pre-emc2 compatability stuff
[23:10:51] <CIA-18> - use the perspective view by default
[23:10:51] <CIA-18> - get the emc version from the emc module, not from the environment