#emc | Logs for 2007-03-13

[00:01:39] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtapi_bitops.h: include bitops implementation for x86_64, needed on edgy where the /usr/includ/asm/bitops.h header is no longer available
[00:28:26] <unter1> I ran my Mesa 5120 under EMC2 and it didn't complain
[00:29:00] <unter1> I'm guessing that it shows up as a PLX Technology device under lspci
[00:29:22] <unter1> my board had a rohs sticker over that chip, and I didn't peel it off
[00:29:45] <SWPadnos> it's a plx9030
[00:30:44] <unter1> it shares an interrupt, is that ok, or am I going to have to go beat on my bios?
[00:31:18] <SWPadnos> EMC doesn't use interrupts from the Mesa card
[00:31:24] <SWPadnos> so it shouldn't be a problem
[00:31:55] <unter1> that would be a significant factor, wouldn't it?
[00:32:37] <SWPadnos> what, using interrupts or sharing them?
[00:32:52] <SWPadnos> either should be fine, but it's unimportant since they aren't used
[00:33:07] <unter1> ok, thanks
[00:38:46] <tomp> jepler: yep, i understand. i cannot write to it, i can read from it.
[00:54:36] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtapi_bitops.h: remove stuff that is not used by rtapi
[00:59:06] <Goslowjimbo> I would like to add a calibration page to "my" DRO (you fellas really created it).
[01:00:17] <Goslowjimbo> The only thing I cannot see how to do with the new pyvcp and HAL is store the calibration values for recall when I start up the DRO program again.
[01:00:58] <SWPadnos> there may be ini file functions in the python library, but you can't do it without some programming
[01:07:22] <Goslowjimbo> Maybe this can wait. I just thought with the multiple page capability, that it would be great to have calibration capability.
[01:08:21] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[01:09:02] <Goslowjimbo> I'll do a little studying with the thought in mind, though.
[01:36:19] <cradek> lerman: around? I have a little more information about that program
[01:37:23] <robin_sz> mmmm Baileys!
[01:40:08] <tomp> the newest (2007 03 07) EMC2_User_Manual says "The EMC uses a tool file that is read in when a machine control is started. In a standard release this file is named emc.var, generic.var, or sim.var and is used by the similarly named run file." i think that oughtta be emc.tbl, generic.tbl, or sim.tbl
[01:41:43] <tomp> and there doesnt seem to be any .run files
[01:43:45] <SWPadnos> use the source, luke!
[01:43:46] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:45:40] <tomp> will try, last time i tried lyx.... argh!
[01:46:21] <SWPadnos> heh - I know the feeling
[01:46:35] <SWPadnos> what section of the manual, by the way?
[01:47:26] <tomp> closed it... well, must be the section on tool tables
[01:48:27] <SWPadnos> oh, that stands to reason
[01:49:05] <tomp> sectionc 20.1 emc2_users_manual (paeg160)
[01:49:40] <tomp> page ( really want me to edit it??) cant type fer sh@@ ireally do know how to spell tho
[01:49:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - I found it
[01:50:05] <SWPadnos> it's all wrong, not just the names
[01:50:31] <SWPadnos> there are no longer a bunch of xxx.run files for the different configs, they're in separate dirs ...
[01:51:30] <tomp> i cant find *.run in ~/emc2-head
[01:51:57] <SWPadnos> right, they're no longer used
[01:52:26] <SWPadnos> there's now one run script (scripts/run), and you supply a config dir for it to use
[01:53:13] <SWPadnos> do you also have the problem with the surrounding text overlapping the sample tool table?
[01:57:27] <tomp> yep, renders badly
[01:57:34] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/mkpre.py: a script to help with converting ASCII art diagrams into groff input
[02:10:44] <roltek> you in chris
[02:11:16] <cradek> haha
[02:11:23] <cradek> just ask your question :-)
[02:11:46] <roltek> does emc have servo spindle control
[02:12:30] <cradek> can you say more specifically what you mean? like analog output for a speed control for milling?
[02:12:52] <jmkasunich> "servo"
[02:13:07] <jmkasunich> does that mean position control (as opposed to simple speed control)?
[02:13:44] <roltek> i am using messa 5i20 to messa 7i30 quad h bridge and would like to use 1 for spindle control
[02:14:19] <jmkasunich> must be a little machine
[02:14:55] <roltek> yes using pittman dc and 500 count encoder just on test bench
[02:15:23] <jmkasunich> if all you want is for EMC to be able to control the spindle speed, then yes
[02:15:55] <roltek> closed loop
[02:15:56] <jmkasunich> if you are talking about full servo control of the spindle, as for rigid tapping, or boring with tool orient before retract, no
[02:16:14] <jmkasunich> closed loop what? speed, yes, position, no
[02:17:01] <roltek> speed for now full servo if possible
[02:17:09] <SWPadnos> run the motion.spindle-whatever output through a PID loop with feedback from the velocity output of an encoder (or a ddt if neeed)
[02:17:21] <SWPadnos> that gives you PID velocity control
[02:17:23] <jmkasunich> closed loop speed would require some non-trivial design - it can be done with existing hal blocks, but you gotta know something about motor control
[02:17:41] <jmkasunich> what SWPadnos said
[02:18:27] <roltek> so what you are saying is it can be done
[02:18:39] <jmkasunich> you gotta deal with things like velocity feedback quantization noise and such, not outrageously difficult, but not a job for a control theory novice either
[02:18:43] <SWPadnos> yes for speed, no (not yet) for orientation
[02:20:39] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, it should be pretty easy to make a separate vel (ddt) component that has output like the new encoder velocity output (taking time since last change into account)
[02:20:51] <jmkasunich> not really
[02:21:12] <jmkasunich> because the time granularity is 1 period of the thread which calls ddt
[02:21:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm - why not? (if you use the count output instead of the position output)
[02:21:52] <jmkasunich> the encoder trick works because it knows the time of the last count to base_period resolution, not servo_period resolution
[02:22:09] <SWPadnos> right - thinking about that now ;)
[02:22:11] <jmkasunich> I guess it would help for the case where you are getting 0.6 steps per servo-period
[02:22:18] <jmkasunich> but not the case where you are getting 1.6
[02:22:47] <SWPadnos> yeah, though a spindle is very slow, so you could just about run the PID loop at 10 Hz
[02:23:02] <jmkasunich> yeah, that would work - need another thread
[02:23:09] <jmkasunich> or apply a lowpass to the ddt output
[02:23:12] <SWPadnos> or a skip counter :)
[02:23:14] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:23:36] <SWPadnos> hmm. there's no return from HAL functs, is there?
[02:23:41] <SWPadnos> (return value)
[02:23:49] <jmkasunich> skip counters aren't a HAL suitable way of doing things
[02:23:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:24:05] <jmkasunich> no, hal functs don't return values
[02:24:08] <jmkasunich> they process signals
[02:24:25] <SWPadnos> I understand the idea behind them - that was an implementation question
[02:24:38] <SWPadnos> ie, in the thread function, does that get a return back
[02:24:55] <jmkasunich> I don't think so - I would have to check the code
[02:25:25] <jmkasunich> hal.h has the prototype for hal_new_funct, which in turn has a prototype for a hal funct
[02:25:41] <SWPadnos> ok - no problem, jus twondering
[02:26:46] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna do the "ctrl_type=" thing for stepgen
[02:27:01] <jmkasunich> I don't want to document what I have right now, knowing full well I'm gonna change it some more
[02:27:23] <jmkasunich> saved a copy of it as it is now tho, in case we decide to tweak it and backport to 2.1
[02:28:03] <jmkasunich> hmm, nasty decision:
[02:28:10] <jmkasunich> most hal comps have one funct per entity
[02:28:29] <jmkasunich> got 3 mux2's, then you have mux2.0, mux2.1, mux2.2
[02:29:05] <jmkasunich> but stepgen has "stepgen.make_pulses" and "stepgen.capture_pos" and "stepgen.update_freq" that cover all stepgens at once
[02:29:14] <jmkasunich> more convenient for the hal file writer
[02:29:27] <SWPadnos> not as flexible
[02:38:43] <jmkasunich> hmm, I thought this was the dev channel
[02:38:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:45:26] <roltek> thank's guys
[02:48:37] <skunkworks> another truck load of 'stuff' to the new house..
[02:49:08] <cradek> now is when you discover the things you didn't unpack after you moved last time
[02:51:07] <skunkworks> right. some boxes have been moved without really knowing what is in them :)
[02:52:03] <skunkworks> I have not tried the tweeks on the gantry yet - maybe I will get some time tomorrow.
[02:56:44] <jepler> 'night all
[02:56:56] <SWPadnos> see you jepler
[02:57:00] <skunkworks> night
[02:57:01] <cradek> goodnight
[03:04:04] <tomp> sieg has a small grinder http://www.syilamerica.com/product_U2.asp , looks like pretty small wheel, needing pretty hi rpm spindle
[03:04:23] <toastydeath> whirrrr
[03:04:50] <toastydeath> i would not really want to run a small wheel on a surface grinder
[03:13:35] <toastydeath> seig: loseAfingerCNC
[04:17:10] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: fix typo, clarify a couple comments, insure against unlikely race condition, tweak parameter init
[04:39:51] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: add a comment, fix silly whitespace typo
[04:40:34] <orpheus> this is a simple question, but it's oddly hard to google
[04:40:45] <orpheus> how are t-slots measured?
[04:41:00] <jmkasunich> with a dial caliper ;-)
[04:41:01] <orpheus> do they size the narrow width of the T
[04:41:12] <orpheus> or the wide width of the T?
[04:41:16] <toastyde1th> it's usually the narrow
[04:41:21] <jmkasunich> you are trying to buy some, and you don't know how to spec them?
[04:41:20] <toastyde1th> you can't really tell though
[04:41:49] <toastyde1th> as i recall, strap clamps are sized for the narrow
[04:41:57] <toastyde1th> so that's what they give you on the specs
[04:41:57] <jmkasunich> yeah - unless its a "standard" like bridgeport, can be tricky though
[04:42:07] <toastyde1th> if you're trying to mill a t-slot
[04:42:12] <orpheus> jmkasunish: worse, I now have a step block set. a very very big step block set
[04:42:22] <toastyde1th> orpheus: strap clamps
[04:42:26] <jmkasunich> much bigger than your machine can use?
[04:42:30] <toastyde1th> I DEMAND INDUSTRY TERMS BE USED
[04:42:38] <toastyde1th> no just kidding.
[04:42:44] <jmkasunich> pthbbbbt
[04:42:56] <orpheus> well, the narrow part of the t-nuts are as wide as the wide part needs to be
[04:42:59] <orpheus> yeah
[04:43:06] <orpheus> whoops
[04:43:14] <jmkasunich> got a reciept?
[04:43:21] <jmkasunich> or is it ebay or somethign like that?
[04:43:27] <orpheus> it was ebay
[04:43:32] <jmkasunich> bummer
[04:43:39] <orpheus> I could re-list them, but they cost more to ship than to buy
[04:43:45] <orpheus> i mean, they're really heavy
[04:43:49] <orpheus> they're HUGE
[04:44:05] <jmkasunich> hindsight and all - they often spec that stuff by the diameter of the studs
[04:44:11] <orpheus> yeah
[04:44:14] <jmkasunich> bport clamp sets are 1/2: studs
[04:44:32] <jmkasunich> the slot is wider than that, no idea what the actual width is
[04:44:38] <jmkasunich> not much wider tho
[04:44:44] <orpheus> so if something only has one number on it, you have a 1-in-3 chance of guessing which dimension it is
[04:44:53] <jmkasunich> right
[04:45:02] <orpheus> sigh...
[04:45:19] <toastyde1th> aren't there like 3/4" studs and 1/2" studs
[04:45:19] <orpheus> i just feel really dumb for getting the wrong ones...
[04:45:21] <jmkasunich> so how big is the set you know have?
[04:45:30] <toastyde1th> i guess there are smaller ones, i wouldn't know
[04:45:52] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: 3/4 would never fit on a bport - bet you'd find them around bigger mills though
[04:46:07] <toastyde1th> yep
[04:46:08] <orpheus> * orpheus finds the exact size
[04:46:21] <jmkasunich> I have 3/8 studs for my shoptask
[04:46:22] <toastyde1th> our cincinnati and K&T horizontals at work use big old clamps
[04:46:26] <jmkasunich> made the T-nuts here though
[04:46:46] <toastyde1th> not sure the exact size though
[04:46:47] <orpheus> they're 1/2"
[04:46:49] <jmkasunich> same with the van norman (I use the same 3/8 studs, just differnet t-nuts)
[04:47:13] <jmkasunich> orpheus: thats pretty much industry standard then - save them for when you have a bridgeport ;-)
[04:47:25] <toastyde1th> or mill your table
[04:47:26] <orpheus> that was one thought
[04:47:28] <toastyde1th> =)
[04:47:30] <orpheus> hehehe
[04:47:38] <orpheus> there'd be no table left
[04:47:41] <toastyde1th> actually i wouldn't do that
[04:47:50] <jmkasunich> what size is your machine? sherline-ish?
[04:47:49] <toastyde1th> unless you were going to regrind it flat
[04:47:49] <orpheus> just 4 thin walls
[04:48:12] <orpheus> it's a standard harbor freight micromill
[04:48:26] <jmkasunich> probably wants 1/4" studs then
[04:48:36] <toastyde1th> studs are only like 30 bucks, right?
[04:48:47] <toastyde1th> or are they 50
[04:48:47] <jmkasunich> HF probably has clamping kits taht would fit
[04:48:48] <toastyde1th> i forget
[04:49:32] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: a complete set (t-nuts, studs, hex-nuts, strap clamps, and step blocks, is usually not cheap
[04:49:49] <orpheus> ebay's pretty cheap
[04:49:54] <orpheus> considering
[04:50:02] <toastyde1th> yeah i keep seeing strap clamp kits
[04:50:04] <toastyde1th> the whole deal
[04:50:06] <toastyde1th> for like 30 bucks
[04:50:07] <orpheus> yep
[04:50:12] <toastyde1th> check msc
[04:50:17] <jmkasunich> chinese ones I guess
[04:50:18] <orpheus> just not in small sizes
[04:50:26] <toastyde1th> strap clamps don't need to be american
[04:50:35] <jmkasunich> no
[04:50:38] <orpheus> but so what if you're cheaply made.... they're block o' metal
[04:50:41] <orpheus> *blocks
[04:50:47] <orpheus> *they're
[04:51:01] <orpheus> *i'm going to stop typing so fast now
[04:51:15] <toastyde1th> or correct all your errors on one line, one or the other
[04:51:30] <toastyde1th> =)
[04:52:04] <jmkasunich> orpheus: what size are your tee-slots (the narrow part ;-)
[04:53:15] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: I'm looking at enco (figured they'd have cheap, and maybe small)
[04:53:25] <jmkasunich> 1/2" sets are $76
[04:53:31] <orpheus> well, i don't know off the top of my head, but the're almost certianly 1/4" studs
[04:53:42] <toastyde1th> what
[04:53:44] <toastyde1th> that's insane
[04:53:54] <toastyde1th> i'm stumbling through msc
[04:54:00] <toastyde1th> mabye they are hella expensive
[04:54:00] <jmkasunich> ok, enco only goes down to 5/16" studs, 3/8" x 5/8" slots
[04:54:50] <jmkasunich> harbor freight has 1/2" sets for $39
[04:54:59] <toastyde1th> yes! gg harbor freight
[04:55:05] <jmkasunich> 3/8" for $35
[04:55:22] <toastyde1th> wowza
[04:55:36] <jmkasunich> thats the complete 58 piece set
[04:55:40] <jmkasunich> dirt cheap IMO
[04:55:43] <toastyde1th> msc has a 253 dollar clamping kit
[04:55:50] <jmkasunich> te-co I bet
[04:55:58] <toastyde1th> yep
[04:56:06] <orpheus> for $250, what all can you clamp down?
[04:56:27] <toastyde1th> well
[04:56:38] <jmkasunich> orpheus: is this what you have? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47158
[04:56:45] <toastyde1th> at work we have a 30 hp horizontal that runs a 10" diameter, 5" wide slab mill
[04:57:04] <orpheus> that's what it /used/ to be
[04:57:09] <orpheus> i bought it used
[04:57:14] <toastyde1th> you don't want something to come loose when you run a job on that thing
[04:57:15] <jmkasunich> Table slot: 1/2'' x 3/8''
[04:57:19] <orpheus> the previous owner... upgraded
[04:57:23] <orpheus> ...everything
[04:57:36] <orpheus> yeah
[04:58:00] <jmkasunich> I was hoping the webpage would have "accessories for this machine"
[04:58:02] <orpheus> heh, shipping weight 103 lbs
[04:58:15] <orpheus> it was over 150 when I bought it
[04:58:45] <toastyde1th> you do not need to spend big bucks on hold down stuff
[04:58:51] <toastyde1th> that mill will not generate enough force to rip anything up
[04:58:56] <orpheus> well
[04:59:01] <orpheus> the new motor might
[04:59:07] <toastyde1th> nah
[04:59:19] <toastyde1th> a 2hp bridgeport will stall before you run into problems
[04:59:26] <toastyde1th> or snap the cutter
[04:59:43] <toastyde1th> mostly the heavier gauges are for rigidity
[05:00:28] <jmkasunich> heh, the webpage said slots 3/8 x 1/2, the manual says 5/16 x 5/8
[05:00:33] <toastyde1th> rather than fail strength
[05:00:34] <orpheus> ......
[05:00:46] <orpheus> clearance maybe?
[05:00:51] <toastyde1th> ..?
[05:00:57] <toastyde1th> clearance?
[05:00:59] <jmkasunich> no, typical HF accuracy
[05:01:09] <orpheus> t-nut size versus actual t-slot size?
[05:01:16] <orpheus> they're not a tight fit
[05:01:17] <jmkasunich> I trust the manual numbers vs. the webpage numbers
[05:01:29] <jmkasunich> except the actual numbers are probably metric
[05:01:42] <orpheus> well, before I buy anything, i'll measure. thrice.
[05:01:46] <jmkasunich> oh, you already have some t-nuts?
[05:01:49] <orpheus> yeah
[05:01:55] <orpheus> like..... 2.
[05:02:01] <orpheus> err.. no.. 3.
[05:02:01] <jmkasunich> then the real thing to measure is what the thread is
[05:02:15] <jmkasunich> get your self some threaded rod to make studs
[05:02:17] <jmkasunich> get some nuts
[05:02:22] <toastyde1th> oh my god, msc has a 497 dollar strap clamp kit
[05:02:31] <jmkasunich> get a small mill vise (you're gonna want that anyway)
[05:02:40] <jmkasunich> and use the vise to make tee nuts to fit the table slots
[05:02:51] <orpheus> already have a vice, that's how i've gotten this far
[05:03:00] <jmkasunich> use the two tnuts you hve to bolt the vise down
[05:03:03] <jmkasunich> and go to town
[05:03:23] <jmkasunich> get a piece of square bar as wide as the nuts need to be, and 6" long
[05:03:28] <jmkasunich> mill the steps in it
[05:03:31] <orpheus> but by the time I do it... won't i have spent $30 on materials?
[05:03:34] <jmkasunich> drill and tap every 3/4" or so
[05:03:38] <jmkasunich> and saw apart
[05:03:55] <toastyde1th> nah
[05:03:56] <toastyde1th> not 30
[05:04:07] <toastyde1th> probably like 8
[05:04:17] <jmkasunich> 6" of 5/8 square bar isn't much
[05:04:34] <jmkasunich> and you could make 8 nuts out of it
[05:04:39] <orpheus> that's another question... where do you people get metal?
[05:04:47] <jmkasunich> I use metal express mostly
[05:04:56] <jmkasunich> they are in the midwest/east, where are you?
[05:05:03] <toastyde1th> i don't have home tools, only at work and school
[05:05:05] <orpheus> I have a 1"x4"x18" bar i got from ebay that i've been hacking at for over a year
[05:05:07] <toastyde1th> and they buy from bulk suppliers
[05:05:14] <orpheus> i'm in atlanta
[05:05:45] <orpheus> metal express... that's what i needed someone to tell me
[05:05:48] <orpheus> sweet
[05:06:08] <jmkasunich> 8.99 for 6" of 5/8 bar
[05:06:11] <jmkasunich> 1018
[05:06:17] <toastyde1th> oh, someone was so close
[05:06:19] <toastyde1th> and it was me
[05:06:26] <toastyde1th> * toastyde1th dances
[05:06:27] <jmkasunich> crap, $5 for handling, that sucks
[05:06:31] <toastyde1th> blast
[05:06:33] <jmkasunich> small orders are no fun
[05:07:00] <jmkasunich> I think the closest one to atlanta is greenville SC
[05:07:28] <orpheus> they have value packs! sweet!
[05:07:28] <jmkasunich> I'm in cleveland oh, so I can usually go and pick the stuff up myself
[05:07:37] <orpheus> ok
[05:07:45] <orpheus> another question, is there any reason you can't tap something with a mill?
[05:07:55] <orpheus> let me explain more
[05:08:00] <jmkasunich> with that mill - torque (or lack of)
[05:08:12] <jmkasunich> and low speed
[05:08:13] <orpheus> if you took a wierd but, not square, but more of... diamond shaped
[05:08:37] <toastyde1th> you do not want to tap on a mill without a tapping head
[05:08:39] <orpheus> and then ran it around a hole or bar, in a long spiral
[05:08:45] <orpheus> does that work?
[05:08:55] <toastyde1th> huh?
[05:08:59] <orpheus> i mean, for something with a really wierd threading?
[05:09:01] <jmkasunich> sounds like a helicoil
[05:09:28] <jmkasunich> it would not be strong at all, unless the inside of the hole was already threaded, and in that case, why bother?
[05:09:42] <orpheus> oh
[05:09:47] <toastyde1th> i'm not sure i understand what he wants
[05:09:50] <orpheus> i actually found my own answer
[05:09:54] <orpheus> "Threads can be machined with a single point tool on a milling machine using helical interpolation."
[05:10:06] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: I tap on the drill press all the time (without a tapping head)
[05:10:13] <jmkasunich> oh, threadmilling
[05:10:20] <toastyde1th> what's your process
[05:10:25] <jmkasunich> that works for outside threads, and larger inside threads
[05:10:27] <toastyde1th> are you holding the tap in the chuck
[05:10:32] <jmkasunich> my drill press goes very slow
[05:10:43] <toastyde1th> yeah, i would not really do that
[05:10:50] <jmkasunich> yes - I know, hardened tap shank isn't nice for the chuck...
[05:11:05] <toastyde1th> the worst i do is align the tap handle using the spindle
[05:11:08] <jmkasunich> my drill press also reverses nicely
[05:11:18] <orpheus> but it can be done, which is really handy
[05:11:28] <orpheus> for those really really wierd threads
[05:11:34] <toastyde1th> orpheus: cnc mills can do many different things
[05:11:39] <orpheus> i'm learning this
[05:11:39] <jmkasunich> I've done 6-32 in 1/8 alum, and I've done 3/6-16 in 1/2" thick cast iron
[05:11:40] <toastyde1th> float tapping, rigid tapping
[05:11:52] <orpheus> anyways, thanks
[05:11:54] <orpheus> i need sleep
[05:11:56] <jmkasunich> and things in between
[05:11:59] <jmkasunich> ditto
[05:12:06] <orpheus> 10 AM class
[05:12:09] <toastyde1th> night then, folks
[05:12:21] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: I also have a tapping head, and I use that when I have more than one or two holes
[05:12:54] <toastyde1th> i never really want to risk a tap in the drill press
[05:13:19] <jmkasunich> I would not do it on the average drill press
[05:13:40] <jmkasunich> mine isn't average - a former owner put a countershaft where the motor goes, and stepped down the motor speed to drive it
[05:13:40] <toastyde1th> do you know if yours is marketed as a drilling/tapping machine
[05:13:44] <jmkasunich> I can run it a t30 rpm
[05:13:47] <toastyde1th> ah, cool
[05:13:49] <toastyde1th> so it kind of is
[05:13:51] <jmkasunich> at 30 rpm that is
[05:14:07] <jmkasunich> kind of - but its just a Clausing 15" drill press - not made as a tapper
[05:14:22] <toastyde1th> yeah, but there are normal drill presses that have tapping facilities
[05:14:30] <toastyde1th> that are indistinguishable from other drill presses in the same lineup
[05:14:33] <jmkasunich> between the vari-speed pulleys and the vfd it will do 30-1000 rpm
[05:15:00] <toastyde1th> pretty decent
[05:15:01] <jmkasunich> those have integral tapping heads, right?
[05:15:04] <toastyde1th> nah
[05:15:10] <toastyde1th> it just stops quickly and has a reverse
[05:15:19] <toastyde1th> very similar to what you are describing
[05:15:20] <jmkasunich> ah
[05:15:22] <toastyde1th> *describing
[05:15:24] <jmkasunich> must be three phase then
[05:15:29] <toastyde1th> not that i'm aware of?
[05:15:40] <jmkasunich> single phase motors don't reverse for crap
[05:15:41] <toastyde1th> i've never used one, so i can't be all that specific
[05:15:45] <toastyde1th> i think they have brakes
[05:15:56] <toastyde1th> electronic brakes
[05:15:56] <jmkasunich> you gotta let them coast down until the starting switch engages
[05:16:09] <jmkasunich> if they are industrial class machines, they'd be three phase anyway
[05:16:19] <jmkasunich> only home crap and small machines are single phase
[05:16:31] <toastyde1th> nah, i've seen some decent drill presses that are single
[05:16:45] <jmkasunich> my drill press is only 1/2HP and it is three phase (hence the vfd)
[05:16:56] <toastyde1th> but yes, i will agree that almost all the good stuff is three phase
[05:16:58] <jmkasunich> I think its 1/2
[05:17:12] <jmkasunich> 3/4
[05:17:42] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/shoptask/bsmt-less-3.jpg
[05:17:45] <toastyde1th> i rarely use drill presses, though
[05:17:56] <toastyde1th> i admittedly need to practice more
[05:18:27] <toastyde1th> that's a neat drill you have yourself
[05:18:38] <jmkasunich> used machinery rocks
[05:19:01] <toastyde1th> i'd have some if i didn't live in an apartment =(
[05:19:06] <jmkasunich> if I recall correctly, that was $250
[05:19:07] <toastyde1th> snap
[05:19:22] <toastyde1th> i tried to get my buddy to buy a jig borer
[05:19:24] <toastyde1th> instead of a drill press
[05:19:34] <toastyde1th> 500 for the jig bore, 500 for the drill press
[05:19:37] <toastyde1th> he didn't go for it
[05:19:44] <jmkasunich> http://home.att.net/~JEKasunich/vannorman/VN_Home.htm
[05:19:51] <jmkasunich> my mill was $500
[05:19:56] <toastyde1th> snap
[05:19:59] <toastyde1th> that is a cool mill
[05:19:58] <jmkasunich> the one in that pic
[05:20:48] <toastyde1th> that's darn good
[05:20:58] <jmkasunich> took me about 40 hours and $100 in parts, plus a surplus VFD from work, to get it running
[05:21:40] <toastyde1th> lol
[05:22:44] <toastyde1th> how do you like it
[05:22:47] <jmkasunich> a lot of the 40 hours was cleaning
[05:23:00] <jmkasunich> it was covered with caked on cutting oil and sharp chips
[05:23:25] <toastyde1th> ha
[05:23:32] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: revised stepgen, backport from trunk
[05:23:39] <jmkasunich> it works great
[05:23:46] <toastyde1th> how's the vibration
[05:23:51] <toastyde1th> i can't stand bridgeports
[05:24:12] <jmkasunich> the VN is at least as rigid as a bport, if not more
[05:24:22] <jmkasunich> its 1800 lbs
[05:24:36] <jmkasunich> but it doesn't have that long arm, knuckle, head, etc
[05:24:41] <toastyde1th> yeah
[05:24:42] <toastyde1th> that's what I was looking at
[05:25:03] <toastyde1th> it kinda looks like you could mout the vise sideways and run it horizontal
[05:25:07] <jmkasunich> my two standard "show off" pics
[05:25:10] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil3.jpg
[05:25:19] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil4.jpg
[05:25:32] <toastyde1th> nice
[05:25:43] <jmkasunich> first one is 4.5" wide x 1/8 to 1/4 deep
[05:25:52] <jmkasunich> second one is 1" wide x 5/8" deep
[05:25:55] <toastyde1th> how many hp is that
[05:26:06] <jmkasunich> both single pass, not a bit of shuddering or shaking
[05:26:10] <jmkasunich> 1.5HP
[05:26:24] <jmkasunich> gear drive spindle
[05:26:30] <jmkasunich> 70 RPM in low
[05:26:45] <jmkasunich> I was doing that cutting at 140 tho
[05:26:55] <toastyde1th> how wide is the cutter
[05:26:57] <toastyde1th> also, brb
[05:27:03] <jmkasunich> 5-1/2"
[05:27:06] <jmkasunich> I won't brv
[05:27:12] <jmkasunich> I won't brb
[05:27:14] <jmkasunich> bedtime here
[05:27:21] <jmkasunich> 1:30 in the morning
[05:27:58] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[06:41:17] <toastyde1th> ffff
[07:24:12] <Jymmm> Jymmm has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.1.2 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org || http://www.generation5.org/content/2001/floppy.asp
[07:55:30] <Jymmm> Boo!
[08:00:47] <alex_joni> hi
[08:07:57] <Jymmm> how goes it alex_joni
[11:54:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for the day
[14:14:18] <a-l-p-h-a> hello
[14:23:42] <anonimasu> hi
[14:24:24] <anonimasu> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil4.jpg
[14:24:40] <anonimasu> whoops
[14:25:02] <a-l-p-h-a> monster
[14:25:13] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, how's the day going?
[14:31:53] <anonimasu> nicely
[14:31:59] <anonimasu> cut 40 parts earlier
[14:44:46] <skunkworks> magic
[14:44:47] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/snow.JPG
[14:45:07] <SWPadnos> that should be called "snow+Ice.jpg" :)
[14:48:00] <skunkworks> unreal - couldn't do that if you tried
[15:36:35] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: markup fix
[16:08:29] <SWPadnos> ok, now this is funny
[16:08:43] <SWPadnos> I wanted to search for X and/or Y motor mounts
[16:08:47] <SWPadnos> on eBay
[16:09:12] <SWPadnos> so I use the search terms (X, Y, x&y) (bracket*, mount*)
[16:09:34] <SWPadnos> which should match X or Y or x&y plus mount* or bracket*
[16:09:43] <SWPadnos> and the first item that comes up is coffee in K-cups
[16:10:08] <SWPadnos> from 30 miles down the road
[16:10:18] <SWPadnos> "Green Mountain French Roast Decaf Coffee K Cup x 50 NR!"
[16:10:30] <SWPadnos> Green Mount* .... x 50" :)
[16:15:08] <skunkworks> random
[16:16:43] <skunkworks> I find myself doing a lot of subtracting in searches now
[16:18:39] <skunkworks> dell laptop -battery -adaptor
[16:20:07] <SWPadnos> -exploding
[16:25:58] <skunkworks> -exploded
[16:42:29] <CIA-6> 03lerman 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: Fix bug in handling of display of numeric parameters in comments (PRINT, and DEBUG,)
[17:32:42] <CIA-6> 03lerman 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_o_word.cc: Fix the previous fix to this file. Was checking the wrong return value.
[18:33:57] <crepincdotcom> cradek / jepler:
[18:34:08] <crepincdotcom> wanted to thank you guys for all your eagle script help
[18:34:25] <crepincdotcom> its working perfectly now, my boards are better than i expected :-)
[18:34:32] <jepler> crepincdotcom: that's great
[18:34:35] <jepler> crepincdotcom: got any photos?
[18:34:43] <crepincdotcom> no, i don't have a camera :-( hope to get some soon
[18:34:47] <jepler> crepincdotcom: drat
[18:35:00] <jepler> crepincdotcom: did you buy that mill CNC-ready, or did you do the addition of CNC yourself (motor mounts and the like)
[18:34:59] <crepincdotcom> i just milled the transmitter for my freinds rocket (his senior thesis, if you will)
[18:35:08] <crepincdotcom> nah I mad all the mounts and such
[18:35:10] <crepincdotcom> *made
[18:35:27] <crepincdotcom> in hindsight there are some things I would change
[18:35:37] <crepincdotcom> but i am really amazed how well it works
[18:35:55] <crepincdotcom> i mean the motors are 7.8 deg/step, and crappy at that. my linkages are rubber tubing
[18:36:09] <crepincdotcom> but somehow its ok
[18:36:29] <jepler> crepincdotcom: 1.8 degree (200 steps/rev)? Or 7.5 degree (48 steps/rev)?
[18:36:40] <crepincdotcom> sorry, 7.5
[18:36:47] <crepincdotcom> I'm half stepping them though
[18:37:08] <crepincdotcom> my drive board doesn't chop them though so they get uber hot when sitting still, i need to make a new driver pronto
[18:38:01] <jepler> crepincdotcom: is the limited size of the table (in "Y" particularly) a problem for the boards you're doing
[18:38:03] <jepler> ?
[18:38:12] <crepincdotcom> YES
[18:38:19] <crepincdotcom> i have to design them with the limitation in mind
[18:38:23] <jepler> * jepler nods
[18:38:29] <crepincdotcom> but its what i have until i finish my new mill
[18:38:45] <crepincdotcom> I got a nice position "table" I guess you'd call it
[18:39:00] <crepincdotcom> cant tell what its from, but its about 3' x and 2' y
[18:39:06] <crepincdotcom> ball screws, large steppers, etc
[18:39:27] <jepler> wow that's huge
[18:39:32] <crepincdotcom> yah
[18:39:39] <crepincdotcom> i have a 54k spindle too for it :-)
[18:39:39] <jepler> there's room for that in your dorm?
[18:40:06] <crepincdotcom> ha no, I have an apartment lined up for next year, and until then I have my own space in one of the machine shops
[18:44:45] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: :) http://www.electronicsam.com/video/MVC-341W.MPG
[18:45:06] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: are you still going to try to use servos?
[18:45:15] <crepincdotcom> skunkworks: on the new mill, likely
[18:45:24] <crepincdotcom> i need to play with them a little more before i trust them fully
[18:46:08] <anonimasu> :)
[18:46:15] <anonimasu> trust them?
[18:46:25] <crepincdotcom> hey i'm new to them :-p
[18:47:33] <crepincdotcom> damn skunkworks those are some HUGE motors compared to the table
[18:47:35] <crepincdotcom> nice work though
[18:48:09] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: (the video was to just sell them on ebay ;))
[18:48:13] <anonimasu> hehe, compared to any steppers tehy will probably rock..
[18:48:26] <crepincdotcom> wow
[18:48:41] <crepincdotcom> anonimasu: the issue i think i may have
[18:48:53] <crepincdotcom> is that the comparators in the encoders only go so fast
[18:49:01] <crepincdotcom> so I can't put the motors at full speed
[18:49:10] <anonimasu> crepincdotcom: I take it you bought servos without encoders..
[18:49:12] <anonimasu> right?
[18:49:18] <crepincdotcom> and I can't use divider logic, because the loss is at the comparator level not the computer leverl
[18:49:35] <crepincdotcom> no, the encoders came with the motors. I didnt buy them though, I liberated them from the robotics lab :-)
[18:49:38] <crepincdotcom> (legally, of course)
[18:49:44] <anonimasu> crepincdotcom: that seems odd..
[18:49:55] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: are they dual shaft motors? (encoder on one end)?
[18:49:59] <crepincdotcom> yes
[18:50:22] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: buy some cheap ones from usdigital.
[18:50:32] <crepincdotcom> do they have faster comparators?
[18:50:33] <skunkworks> they have ones that stick on with adhesive tape ;)
[18:50:37] <crepincdotcom> wow
[18:50:42] <crepincdotcom> thats awsome
[18:51:39] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: like this http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/
[18:51:43] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom reads
[18:51:52] <SWPadnos> how fast do the motors spin?
[18:52:08] <crepincdotcom> haven't clocked them yet. At no load, "quite fast" lol
[18:52:19] <SWPadnos> you'd need a very high speed motor and/or a very high resolution encoder to have encoder speed limit you
[18:52:25] <crepincdotcom> perhaps 600 rpm?
[18:52:34] <SWPadnos> that's nothing
[18:52:39] <crepincdotcom> the encoders are like 3600 steps/rev though
[18:52:58] <SWPadnos> is that 3600 after the quadrature "multiplication"?
[18:53:10] <crepincdotcom> no, its 3600 high pulses per line
[18:53:35] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom calculates frequency
[18:53:42] <SWPadnos> well, encoders are rated in cycles, so it's 36 KHz
[18:54:01] <SWPadnos> you get 4x that when you look at the signal in quadrants
[18:54:13] <crepincdotcom> right
[18:54:24] <crepincdotcom> but the comparator should be able to do 36khz no problem
[18:54:28] <SWPadnos> 36 Khz is not a fast frequency for an encoder
[18:54:30] <crepincdotcom> perhaps the motor is faster than i though
[18:54:39] <crepincdotcom> ill scope it again and see what i find
[18:55:04] <SWPadnos> you've got to remember the difference between RPM and Hz - there's an extra factor of 60 in there :)
[18:55:16] <crepincdotcom> yeah, i calculated it
[18:55:30] <SWPadnos> it's easy to forget about
[18:55:37] <crepincdotcom> yah
[18:56:55] <crepincdotcom> so if a servo is holding up the Z axis, is would have to constantly be pulsing the motor to keep it there, as oposed to steppers which have wicked holding torque, correct?
[18:57:30] <crepincdotcom> do you think it would be bad if i made a pully system with a weight the same mass as the Z axis, and each was cabled over a pully above the Z-axis
[18:57:42] <crepincdotcom> so the servo only had to move the axis, not hold the weight?
[18:59:00] <SWPadnos> yes, a servo needs to exert force to keep the axis stationary, but it will only be the amount needed
[18:59:07] <crepincdotcom> right
[18:59:20] <SWPadnos> with a stepper, you can't tell what's needed, so you pump full (or reduced) current into it
[18:59:27] <crepincdotcom> but a 2 tpi well lubed ballscrew will take a good bit of torque to keep in one place
[18:59:39] <SWPadnos> a counterweight can be good, but consider that weight is a very good anti-backlash device
[18:59:43] <skunkworks> I think there are better ways to couterbalance than using weight - but don't ask be what.
[18:59:56] <crepincdotcom> hm
[18:59:57] <SWPadnos> some people use air springs
[19:00:18] <crepincdotcom> but then doesnt the pressure vary with displacement, as opposed to a constant force of a weight?
[19:00:21] <skunkworks> (I would not want to add mass to the system
[19:00:27] <skunkworks> )
[19:00:28] <crepincdotcom> yeah, it would slow rapids
[19:00:37] <crepincdotcom> but my Z rapids are never very far
[19:00:42] <SWPadnos> yes, so you use a large-ish reservoir of air, and relatively thin springs
[19:00:48] <crepincdotcom> ahh SWPadnos ok
[19:00:53] <SWPadnos> you get some deviation, but not too much
[19:00:57] <crepincdotcom> makes sense
[19:01:10] <crepincdotcom> i have a whole pile of pnumatic cylanders, that actually sounds like a great idea
[19:01:13] <SWPadnos> weight has inertia, which is bad
[19:01:15] <Jymmmm> 4" PVC pipe 8' long == big reservoir =)
[19:01:26] <crepincdotcom> ha
[19:01:29] <SWPadnos> may need better seals, but sure :)
[19:01:45] <Jymmmm> Just NEVER exceeed 120 PSI
[19:01:52] <SWPadnos> boom!!!
[19:01:53] <Jymmmm> or come close to that
[19:02:12] <crepincdotcom> lol ill keep that in mind
[19:02:19] <crepincdotcom> my potato cannon can attest to that ;-)
[19:02:26] <crepincdotcom> we made a 16' long cannon
[19:02:31] <SWPadnos> I was looking for some good springs for my BP, but I never could fine any that had sufficient force and displacement (and insufficient cost)
[19:02:45] <Jymmmm> I actually am going to try a 2' one for vacuum reservoir
[19:02:50] <crepincdotcom> col
[19:02:52] <crepincdotcom> *cool
[19:05:35] <Jymmmm> crepincdotcom 16' out of pvc?!
[19:05:39] <crepincdotcom> yah
[19:05:46] <Jymmmm> was it ever straight?
[19:05:46] <crepincdotcom> 6' expansion chamber of 4" PVC
[19:05:50] <crepincdotcom> then 10' barrel
[19:06:00] <crepincdotcom> it was, eh, "fairly" straight
[19:06:06] <Jymmmm> lol
[19:06:15] <crepincdotcom> we could put a golf ball through 4 peice of 3/4" plywood
[19:06:51] <Jymmmm> heh
[19:07:19] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom: do you have pictures of it on your site?
[19:07:29] <crepincdotcom> let me see if i have the big one on there....
[19:08:12] <crepincdotcom> nope :-( this is just the 8 footer: http://www.crepinc.com/projects/potato-launcher-a-success/
[19:08:27] <crepincdotcom> that was probably 2 years ago, I wasnt as good at documenting things
[19:09:32] <skunkworks> I made a 'normal' one.. what I found worked the best was having multible spark gaps within the chamber. It was scary
[19:09:43] <crepincdotcom> I've heard that
[19:09:51] <Jymmmm> LOOK! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's GhettoCraft!!!
[19:09:52] <crepincdotcom> really a noticable response?
[19:10:05] <crepincdotcom> how did you get all the gaps to spark at the same time?
[19:10:48] <skunkworks> crepincdotcom - the where all in series.
[19:11:03] <skunkworks> I hear a stun gun works the best ;)
[19:11:21] <crepincdotcom> ha
[19:11:31] <crepincdotcom> i bet i could rig a stepper motor to do it
[19:11:39] <crepincdotcom> dont grab stepper leads when its running!
[19:11:43] <crepincdotcom> i found that out the hard way
[19:12:08] <crepincdotcom> giant inductor, when it looses its charge it pulses its energy as an "infinite" voltage
[19:12:41] <crepincdotcom> lim (dt-->0) V=L(di/dt) == inf
[19:14:47] <skunkworks> :)
[19:15:10] <crepincdotcom> found that the hard way... god i thought i was dying
[19:15:16] <crepincdotcom> arced across the chest
[19:16:33] <anonimasu> :)
[19:18:42] <skunkworks> I did the same thing with a ceiling fan ;)
[19:18:51] <edp> don't the stepper drivers have circuitry to decay the inductor current? no, i'm not disagreeing that there's still a lot of voltage
[19:19:30] <crepincdotcom> edp: in reallity its not "infinite" voltage, but most steppers (at least the ones I've seen) dont have internal components to deal with it
[19:19:47] <crepincdotcom> most drivers tie all stepper lines to the rails with fast diodes to dissipate the pulses
[19:20:11] <edp> most controller/drivers circuits though have diodes/etc. to allow the current a path to travel so it doesn't increase too much
[19:20:28] <crepincdotcom> ;-) read up
[19:20:33] <crepincdotcom> yes
[19:20:39] <edp> i have been :)
[19:27:07] <jepler> I think he meant "read one line up" not "read some books, noob" :-P
[19:27:18] <crepincdotcom> haha
[19:27:21] <crepincdotcom> indeed
[19:27:51] <edp> i see
[20:01:12] <SWPadnos> a-l-p-h-a, how about an Accord?
[20:03:49] <a-l-p-h-a> same pile
[20:04:15] <a-l-p-h-a> wrong chan... oops. :)
[20:04:16] <cradek> I had platinum plugs in my toyota for about 100k miles, then sold it
[20:04:31] <cradek> they just don't seem to wear out
[20:04:36] <a-l-p-h-a> do they work well?
[20:04:37] <a-l-p-h-a> guess so
[20:04:45] <cradek> they were factory
[20:04:54] <a-l-p-h-a> her car is really sluggish, but still goes...
[20:05:06] <a-l-p-h-a> so I'm figuring just a tune up, with new plugs may help
[20:05:14] <cradek> doubt it :-/
[20:05:16] <a-l-p-h-a> hopefully the spark plug wires will come out.
[20:05:24] <a-l-p-h-a> she did a fuel filter change a little while ago.
[20:05:25] <cradek> what year?
[20:05:27] <a-l-p-h-a> 98
[20:05:36] <a-l-p-h-a> 110K on it right now I think
[20:05:38] <cradek> it's OBD-II then. check engine light on?
[20:05:43] <a-l-p-h-a> nope.
[20:05:49] <a-l-p-h-a> I have a ODB-II reader... :)
[20:05:51] <cradek> it's not misfiring then
[20:06:05] <cradek> is it worse on rainy days?
[20:06:24] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, I don't know... it's been snowing, and cold most days
[20:06:34] <a-l-p-h-a> I just started dating her 2 months ago today.
[20:06:44] <cradek> ah, already you're fixing her car :-)
[20:07:05] <a-l-p-h-a> actually nothing wrong with it, other than when I hit the throttle, it's slow to respond.
[20:07:05] <cradek> happy two month anniversary - I got you some platinum ... spark plugs
[20:07:13] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, ;)
[20:07:17] <SWPadnos> well, when you want to end it, finish fixing the car ;)
[20:07:17] <cradek> haha
[20:07:18] <a-l-p-h-a> dinner and mini putt tonight too!
[20:07:30] <cradek> nice day for it (here anyway)
[20:07:38] <cradek> 77 deg!
[20:07:50] <a-l-p-h-a> http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/cities/can/Pages/CAON0696.htm
[20:07:51] <SWPadnos> holy crap that's hot
[20:07:53] <a-l-p-h-a> 13°C
[20:08:04] <cradek> it's beautiful
[20:08:06] <a-l-p-h-a> yup
[20:08:08] <a-l-p-h-a> it's uber outside.
[20:08:18] <a-l-p-h-a> I was outside in a t-shirt and light jacket...
[20:08:21] <SWPadnos> we;re up there also - I should break up the remaining ice in the driveway
[20:08:29] <a-l-p-h-a> getting the gear ready when she comes, I can do it quickly, and leave for dinner.
[20:08:32] <SWPadnos> 50 deg now
[20:08:32] <cradek> our mud is finally drying out
[20:08:47] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, where abouts are you again?
[20:08:53] <cradek> lincoln NE
[20:09:01] <cradek> very center of the US
[20:09:10] <a-l-p-h-a> Nebraska... what does it look like again?
[20:09:11] <cradek> equally far from, well, everything
[20:09:13] <a-l-p-h-a> is that beside Ohio?
[20:09:18] <cradek> flat, corny
[20:09:25] <a-l-p-h-a> thought Ohio was corn country
[20:09:30] <cradek> corn country is big I guess
[20:09:53] <a-l-p-h-a> oooooh
[20:10:09] <a-l-p-h-a> three states north of of TX.
[20:10:18] <a-l-p-h-a> what's in NE? besides corn, and flat stuff.
[20:10:41] <cradek> cows...?
[20:10:46] <a-l-p-h-a> what's considered biblebelt?
[20:10:51] <crepincdotcom> /me has goats
[20:10:55] <crepincdotcom> oops
[20:10:59] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom has goats
[20:11:06] <cradek> where are you?
[20:11:10] <a-l-p-h-a> crepincdotcom, as long as the goats consents, no one is the wiser.
[20:11:14] <cradek> a-l-p-h-a: deep south
[20:11:16] <a-l-p-h-a> Toronto.
[20:11:21] <crepincdotcom> atm im at school in mass, but i live in NJ
[20:12:26] <a-l-p-h-a> Is the stereo type of NJ people really bad at driving? Which group of people do NJ make fun of that can't drive... ?
[20:12:30] <a-l-p-h-a> hey lerneaen_hydra.
[20:12:45] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[20:13:00] <lerneaen_hydra> 'sup?
[20:13:29] <cradek> a-l-p-h-a: lincoln is a college town, about 250k people, low crime, a nice place
[20:13:48] <cradek> a-l-p-h-a: second largest nebraska city
[20:14:00] <crepincdotcom> wait
[20:14:04] <crepincdotcom> there are people in nebraska?
[20:14:25] <cradek> crepincdotcom: yes, but we scurry under the corn when anyone looks
[20:14:26] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, sounds nice... good parks?
[20:14:32] <cradek> oops, brb
[20:14:32] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, good night life?
[20:18:51] <tomp> Center for Nontraditional Manufacturing Research, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, a couple of edm publications http://www.unl.edu/nmrc/Researchpublication.htm
[20:19:19] <tomp> Rajurkar is prolific
[20:41:26] <crepincdotcom> a-l-p-h-a: i dont think NJ drivers are half as bad as MA drivers
[20:41:32] <crepincdotcom> its quite scary to cross a street here
[20:47:07] <toastyde1th> nj drivers are fast
[20:47:21] <toastyde1th> or so i have noticed
[20:47:33] <crepincdotcom> we do have a tendancy to move, yes
[21:21:45] <xemet> hi
[21:22:45] <xemet> question: I've my emc2 modified by me in a directory, configured as run in place. if now I want to take this directory, copy it in another PC and recompile all, what should I do?
[21:22:59] <jepler> copy
[21:23:02] <jepler> just copy it.
[21:23:04] <xemet> I've tried, the process went half good...
[21:23:12] <jepler> on the remote machine, run "configure" again
[21:23:17] <xemet> I had the need to run make with sudo
[21:23:22] <SWPadnos> is it a simulator build?
[21:23:27] <xemet> no
[21:23:31] <xemet> realtime
[21:23:38] <SWPadnos> do you have the same user ID on both machines?
[21:24:54] <xemet> no
[21:24:56] <SWPadnos> UID, not username
[21:24:56] <SWPadnos> is the target the same OS?
[21:24:56] <xemet> uhm...I don't know, but they are completely different machine, one is mine the other is at university...
[21:24:56] <xemet> ubuntu 6.06
[21:24:56] <jepler> ./configure ....; make clean; make; sudo make setuid
[21:25:04] <xemet> I've done: ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[21:25:09] <SWPadnos> yep - they're probably compatible at the source level, not binary (if that's what you were trying to copy)
[21:25:10] <xemet> make clean
[21:25:18] <xemet> make
[21:25:32] <xemet> at this point it shows a lot of "permission denied"
[21:25:40] <xemet> when trying the depend
[21:25:45] <xemet> so I tried sudo make
[21:25:48] <xemet> it compiled
[21:25:50] <SWPadnos> is the owner of the files on your machine "root"
[21:25:51] <jepler> you should never "sudo make"
[21:26:03] <xemet> after I type sudo make setuid
[21:26:05] <SWPadnos> that's the one user that has the same UID everywhere
[21:26:21] <jepler> except for "sudo make setuid" or "sudo make install" you should never use "sudo" anywhere in building or running emc
[21:26:25] <xemet> and now I need to run sudo /scripts/emc
[21:26:35] <xemet> well...
[21:26:44] <xemet> what should I do?
[21:26:49] <jepler> Of course, i'm about to contradict myself, because the way to fix this is to go to the top emc directory and "sudo chown <myusername> ."
[21:26:49] <SWPadnos> I suspect you need to chown all the files to your name/group, and then re-tar them
[21:26:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:27:11] <jepler> how did you "copy" the files in the first place?
[21:27:13] <toastyde1th> epic root maneuver
[21:27:34] <xemet> well...I clicked on the directory icon, chose copy...
[21:27:42] <xemet> and pasted it in my usb pen...
[21:28:28] <xemet> so I picked them from my usb pen
[21:28:37] <xemet> and pasted the directory in the other machine
[21:28:52] <xemet> curios thing...I've done it one time
[21:28:58] <xemet> and everything worked
[21:29:06] <jepler> beats me
[21:29:13] <xemet> yesterday I've done it again and had this problem
[21:29:19] <jepler> I have probably used removable media once in the last year
[21:31:10] <jepler> and I've probably used the gnome graphical "copy by dragging" about as many times
[21:31:17] <toastyde1th> it depends on how your system is mounting the filesystem
[21:31:26] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[21:31:47] <xemet> well...what this command "sudo chown <myusername> ." does?
[21:32:02] <jepler> er, it should have been "sudo chown -R <myusername> ."
[21:32:13] <toastyde1th> switches to the root user and then changes all file ownership to <myusername>
[21:32:17] <jepler> it changes the ownership of every file and directory under the current directory "." to be owned by the user <myusername>
[21:32:21] <toastyde1th> for the current directory
[21:32:29] <jepler> when you used "sudo make", it created files and directories that were owned by root
[21:32:34] <xemet> ah...so it should work
[21:32:42] <jepler> you may also need to: chmod -R u+w .
[21:32:58] <jepler> to ensure that all files and directories are writable by you
[21:33:01] <xemet> uhm...I will try
[21:33:39] <xemet> jepler: is there a simply way to read a HAL pin value using python?
[21:33:50] <xemet> simply = that I can understand
[21:34:20] <SWPadnos> from halmodule import * / <something goes here> :)
[21:35:32] <xemet> <something goes here> what goes there?
[21:35:51] <SWPadnos> I don't know :)
[21:35:55] <xemet> ok
[21:36:00] <jepler> 'pydoc hal' has one of the simplest example I could think of at the top
[21:36:02] <SWPadnos> but I'm sure it's quite simple
[21:36:44] <toastyde1th> i once shot a man for reading a HAL pin value using python
[21:36:47] <xemet> jepler: can you remember me where I can read something about that...I'm pretty sure I've read it but don't remember
[21:37:21] <jepler> xemet: open up a terminal. source the emc-environment script if you are using run-in-place. then type the command 'pydoc hal'
[21:37:37] <xemet> ok
[21:38:17] <xemet> thanks
[21:47:16] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:
[21:47:16] <CIA-6> -Changed encoder interface to conform to EMC canonical interface. Count
[21:47:16] <CIA-6> latching, when an index pulse is seen, was replaced with count clearing.
[21:47:16] <CIA-6> This still needs further testing. Roltek plans to test in the next few
[21:47:16] <CIA-6> day.
[21:49:25] <xemet> uhm...seems that I can create components and pins
[21:50:13] <xemet> but is there a way only to read an exixting pin while emc2 is running directly
[21:50:40] <xemet> or should I create a component with a IN pin for the pin I want to read...
[21:52:12] <alex_joni> xemet: you can parse halcmd show pin name
[21:52:20] <alex_joni> or use an input pin, and connect it
[21:53:13] <xemet> I mean read a pin whit a Python application
[22:11:30] <jepler> xemet: it is wrong thinking to say "I want to read the pin with name X created by some other component"
[22:11:41] <jepler> xemet: because the flexibility of HAL is to hook it up in different ways
[22:13:02] <jepler> alex_joni: if you must suggest invoking halcmd to do this, please suggest "halcmd getp" instead of "halcmd show pin/param" -- "halcmd getp" prints just the value of that pin or parameter with no heading or columns of data, so it mostly eliminates parsing
[22:13:17] <alex_joni> ahh, ok
[22:13:34] <jepler> (there's "gets" for signal values as well)
[22:13:52] <alex_joni> xemet: as jepler said.. you can do it with getp, but the proper way to do it is have you rown pin, and connect it to that
[22:14:02] <alex_joni> jepler: getp reads params too?
[22:14:20] <xemet> getp...where? at halcmd prompt?
[22:14:59] <alex_joni> xemet: yes
[22:15:04] <alex_joni> halcmd getp pinname
[22:15:16] <xemet> target: I've I python gui application, and want to show the value of a pin while emc is running
[22:15:29] <xemet> so I run emc
[22:15:48] <alex_joni> xemet: then make it export a pin, and link it
[22:16:03] <xemet> i run my application, and I would like that my application shows some pins
[22:16:41] <xemet> ok...so I let my application create a input pin and link it to the pin I want to read
[22:16:49] <xemet> right?
[22:16:58] <jepler> xemet: yes, the proper way to do that is to have your application create a component and associated (input) pins, and use "link" or "net" to link them to the other (output) pins
[22:18:10] <xemet> ok, understood, thanks
[22:19:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that may cause issues if you want the other program to run continuously, but have EMC start and stop
[22:20:12] <xemet> yes...I imagine...but I need it only when emc is running
[22:21:15] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1: document getp, gets
[22:22:37] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c: better describe 'getp'
[22:46:47] <xemet> night all
[22:48:08] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/m5i20/bit/ (4 files): -Moved all bit files to the same dir.
[23:20:06] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:56:45] <crepincdotcom> i just learned a valuable lesson
[23:57:02] <crepincdotcom> when I mill boards, I home the Z axis using the multimeter method
[23:57:25] <crepincdotcom> in order to get a good connection to the board, I (used to) press the probe down fairly hard
[23:57:57] <crepincdotcom> I was confused that my cuts were suddenly way wider: turns out I was compressing the carpet tape and getting an inaccurate Z reading
[23:58:06] <crepincdotcom> just thought people might like to know.