#emc | Logs for 2007-03-12

[00:19:56] <crepincdotcom> cradek / jepler: what does the roughing function do in the Eagle script? Up to this point I've been perfecting milling without roughing.
[00:20:06] <crepincdotcom> I assume it just takes off more material around the traces
[00:20:24] <crepincdotcom> but i only have a little bit of PCB left and need to make sure this one comes out correctly :-/
[00:21:00] <jepler> crepincdotcom: it is intended for clearing more space around the traces using a flat end mill. I usually don't use it (set it to 0) too
[00:21:19] <crepincdotcom> ahh. so its only astetic
[00:21:21] <crepincdotcom> (sp)
[00:21:47] <jepler> you could say that
[00:22:10] <jepler> usually I use a big GND polygon on the whole board so it doesn't actually do any good
[00:22:25] <crepincdotcom> hah ok
[00:22:49] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich Yo, tooling marks guy!
[00:23:31] <crepincdotcom> (topic change) when a servo if rapiding to a location, before it gets to the location does EMC let it coast and watch the encoder to guide it, assume the controller has braking, or reverse the pulses to stop the motor accuractly?
[00:23:32] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich: Shouldn't I be able to have tooling marks less than what I might get from a (lets say) table saw?
[00:25:48] <crepincdotcom> i seem to have killed it again :-/
[00:26:47] <Jymmmm> crepincdotcom: I'm pretty sure that emc comensates it's velocity/acceleration for "curves" at the like based upon it's setup.
[00:27:13] <crepincdotcom> so "braking"/deccelerating is configurable?
[00:28:17] <SWPadnos> crepincdotcom, if you're using a stepper motor, or a servo drive that accepts step/dir input, then EMC has nothing to do with whether the motor is coasting or braking - that's a driver thing
[00:28:42] <Jymmmm> DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 0.0167
[00:28:42] <Jymmmm> The initial velocity used for axis or coordinated axis motion, in user units per second. The value shown is one inch per minute.
[00:28:42] <Jymmmm> DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 2.0
[00:28:47] <Jymmmm> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config/index.html
[00:28:52] <crepincdotcom> but EMC has to know what to do to make it stop at the corect point no?
[00:28:52] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos you sure?
[00:29:04] <crepincdotcom> it cant simply allow the motor to coast and assume it will get to point X accuratly
[00:29:12] <SWPadnos> EMC will send a stream of step pulses starting at 0 Hz and going up to some maximum, then for deceleration it will reduce the frequency back to 0 (or whatever the needed end velocity is)
[00:29:27] <jmkasunich> crepincdotcom: are you talking about servo or stepper
[00:29:30] <crepincdotcom> so it wont send negative pulses then
[00:29:36] <SWPadnos> are you talking about a driver like Skunworks'
[00:29:39] <crepincdotcom> servo, sorry
[00:29:44] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yes, I'm sure
[00:29:46] <crepincdotcom> I'm talking about a generic h-bridge
[00:29:58] <jmkasunich> for servo, there is a PID loop that drives the bridge whichever way it needs to
[00:30:04] <jmkasunich> you have to tune it
[00:30:23] <SWPadnos> ok, with the H-bridge, EMC will tell the driver to push the motor when it needs pushing - there may be coasting from time to time
[00:30:23] <crepincdotcom> aha
[00:30:49] <Jymmmm> crepincdotcom: I could be totaly wrong here, but emc won't "brake" ther motor, but you can have it "slow things" (per se)
[00:30:56] <SWPadnos> if it's going too fast, EMC will tell the driver to push the other way a little to slow it down
[00:31:11] <crepincdotcom> but if it "slows" the pulses, it is in effect leting the motor coast
[00:31:13] <jmkasunich> it will too ask for braking
[00:31:19] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: thats what i was asking thank you
[00:31:25] <jmkasunich> braking = reverse current and/or voltage on the motor
[00:31:28] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, it doesn't do a "braking phase", but the effect of accelerating against the motion is braking ...
[00:32:01] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos what you're talking about is strictly servo and not stepper related, correct?
[00:32:13] <SWPadnos> sort of, but not really
[00:32:34] <SWPadnos> well, yes. there's no feedback with steppers, so it's only servo
[00:32:47] <SWPadnos> so the answer is yes, that's servo only ;)
[00:32:47] <crepincdotcom> unless you have steppers with encoders
[00:32:49] <SWPadnos> no!
[00:32:54] <crepincdotcom> sorry to complicate things
[00:32:54] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: isn't part of "look ahead" to accombidate for "um, there's a corner coming up, better slow down a bit"
[00:33:01] <SWPadnos> steppers with encoders are not the same thing as servos
[00:33:07] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom hides then
[00:33:33] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yes - the motor gets "braked" because that's what we call "decelerating"
[00:33:55] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: why "braked" instead of just "coast" ?
[00:34:09] <jmkasunich> this isn't driving a car
[00:34:19] <SWPadnos> crepincdotcom, steppers have no reserve torque - if they lag, then there's nothing you can do except slow down the entire move - that's the opposite of what PID usually does
[00:34:25] <jmkasunich> there is no coast, there is no brake
[00:34:30] <SWPadnos> right - what jmkasunich said
[00:34:35] <jmkasunich> there is only applied power vs consumed power
[00:34:36] <Jymmmm> note the "QUOTES"
[00:34:46] <SWPadnos> with steppers, EMC is requesting a position from the motor driver
[00:34:55] <jmkasunich> the drived can apply positive power to the motor, or it can remove power from the motor
[00:35:09] <jmkasunich> and it can do either one in varying amounts
[00:35:15] <SWPadnos> or no power ...
[00:35:16] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich: remove power == coast
[00:35:21] <jmkasunich> no
[00:35:30] <Jymmmm> ?
[00:35:34] <SWPadnos> "removing power" is pushing the other way in that context, I think
[00:35:41] <jmkasunich> remove power as in exert force against the motion
[00:35:43] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: right. but if you have steppers with encoders, and the encoder senses that the shaft moves without being told to, EMC will attempt to push it back the other way no?
[00:35:56] <SWPadnos> crepincdotcom, yes, it should
[00:35:56] <jmkasunich> crepincdotcom: no
[00:35:59] <crepincdotcom> lol
[00:36:11] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom wonders who to beleive
[00:36:13] <SWPadnos> it should if you have PID and the position changes
[00:36:28] <SWPadnos> but it won't help when the motor lags behind
[00:36:30] <SWPadnos> (?)
[00:36:33] <crepincdotcom> ahh ok
[00:36:36] <jmkasunich> steppers with encoders is a very wierd situation, and useless for a discussion like this
[00:36:42] <jmkasunich> they will just confuse things more
[00:36:46] <SWPadnos> crepincdotcom, wait for confirmation from jmkasunich :)
[00:37:06] <crepincdotcom> sorry i brought it up then jmkasunich. peope here suggested it before, thought i'd ask
[00:37:09] <crepincdotcom> SWPadnos: ok lol
[00:37:20] <jmkasunich> with steppers, EMC has no way to accurately control the amount of "push" so its very limited in what it can do if the encoder says there is an error
[00:37:36] <crepincdotcom> makes sense
[00:37:37] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/max/ (jogwheel.hal max.hal max.ini): add jogwheel support to my well-tested 4 axis configuration
[00:37:38] <SWPadnos> being pushed off position and the motor not having enough power to move are two different situations. they have to be handled diffferently for steppers but they are handled the same for servos.
[00:37:53] <crepincdotcom> ok
[00:38:20] <jmkasunich> for steppers, torque is proportional to the displacement between the rotor position and the ideal position (the position the driver is trying to make it go to)
[00:38:32] <SWPadnos> the problem is that as jmkasunich pointed out, there's no proportional drive for steppers - there's only position
[00:38:34] <jmkasunich> if you have very fine microstepping, you could do some closed loop contorl
[00:38:34] <cradek> encoders on steppers might be nice for stopping if you crash into something. to me, it seems not useful for much else.
[00:38:52] <jmkasunich> if you see the motor move a count to the left, you send the driver a few microsteps to the right to correct
[00:38:51] <SWPadnos> you can tell if the part is already screwed up ;)
[00:39:01] <crepincdotcom> my steppers lose steps sometimes because they are crap. someone told me to think about encoders.
[00:39:04] <crepincdotcom> i guess i won't ;-)
[00:39:12] <jmkasunich> don't
[00:39:14] <cradek> crepincdotcom: that's not good advice :-/
[00:39:19] <crepincdotcom> ok
[00:39:30] <crepincdotcom> i have some servos, suppose I'll get them running then
[00:40:04] <Jymmmm> are steppers smaller than nema common?
[00:40:08] <Jymmmm> nema23
[00:40:19] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, depends on where you look
[00:40:34] <Jymmmm> US
[00:40:37] <SWPadnos> there are probably a lot of very tiny steppers and servos in floppy and tape drives
[00:40:54] <crepincdotcom> ^^ i have a box of those
[00:40:58] <Jymmmm> no, not like that with funky OEM specs, but "standard"
[00:41:00] <SWPadnos> the head motor in a CD-ROM is a tiny motor, and I think they're steppers (could be servo though)
[00:41:13] <jmkasunich> old 5-1/4" disk drives all had NEMA17 unipolar steppers in them
[00:41:19] <SWPadnos> I think I've seen some, but they're too tiny to remember where ;)
[00:41:29] <Jymmmm> nema 17, ok I'll look at that.
[00:41:42] <SWPadnos> I wonder how big motors in 8" floppies were ')
[00:41:44] <jmkasunich> good luck finding 5-1/4" drives these days
[00:41:52] <crepincdotcom> ha
[00:42:29] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm wave his two 5.25" drives at jmkasunich
[00:42:41] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/max/ (jogwheel.hal max.hal max.ini): add jogwheel support and tweak jog sliders
[00:43:11] <Jymmmm> http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/23M003/55/Minebea%2DAstrosyn%2D17PY%2DQ202%2D03%2DStepper%2DMotor
[00:43:36] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: 'max' jogwheel
[00:43:59] <jmkasunich> note the relatively high voltage and low current - that will be a crappy motor for high speed use
[00:44:21] <jmkasunich> probably
[00:44:34] <jmkasunich> at least its not unipolar like the old floppy drive ones
[00:44:35] <Jymmmm> but how hard would it be to make/find/steal a driver for it?
[00:44:44] <crepincdotcom> L297/298
[00:44:48] <crepincdotcom> fetch
[00:44:51] <crepincdotcom> theyre free ;-)
[00:44:59] <SWPadnos> buy geckos and move the xylotex to these ;)
[00:45:06] <crepincdotcom> ug
[00:45:13] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: mass quantities
[00:45:28] <SWPadnos> cheap?
[00:45:31] <Jymmmm> That place is just 40 minutes south of me too.
[00:45:34] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos real cheap
[00:46:18] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: you ask very open ended questions
[00:46:36] <jmkasunich> you mean you need mass quantiteis of steppers and drives?
[00:46:40] <Jymmmm> well realtively cheap compared to motor price of $5.95
[00:46:50] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich correct.
[00:47:01] <jmkasunich> do you care about performance?
[00:47:06] <crepincdotcom> get L297/298 pairs lol
[00:47:09] <crepincdotcom> free samples
[00:47:12] <jmkasunich> (top speed, and torque at speed)
[00:47:30] <SWPadnos> the motor is rated at 400mA - you can do that with cheap SOT23 transistors that cost $0.02 each (* 8 or whatever)
[00:47:39] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich max travel is 12" and speed > snail pace
[00:48:04] <Jymmmm> or a snail on a hot date pace (whatever)
[00:48:04] <SWPadnos> a unipolar motor would be easier to drive cheaply, but as jmk is asking, we know nothing about what performance you want and at what speed
[00:48:40] <Jymmmm> Think Sears Craftman's of cnc performance/speed
[00:48:42] <jmkasunich> how many axes?
[00:48:47] <Jymmmm> 3
[00:48:57] <jmkasunich> that kinda rules out the very cheapest approach
[00:49:21] <Jymmmm> well 3/4... could be individual I suppose... I could always machine the PCB's
[00:49:26] <Jymmmm> 3 or 4
[00:49:27] <jmkasunich> 4 pins per motor, driving 4 transistors, driving a unipolar motor
[00:49:42] <jmkasunich> that would require 12 pins, and a parport doesn't have that many
[00:49:51] <jmkasunich> actually, I bet it does
[00:49:53] <cradek> yes it does
[00:49:53] <Jymmmm> oh hell... this time change shit is messing me up, almost time to go to work.
[00:49:56] <SWPadnos> actually, it's a 5V 400mA motor - you can just about use NPM and PNP transistors from a cheap microcontroller to drive it
[00:50:10] <SWPadnos> NPN, that is
[00:50:19] <Jymmmm> 2n222?
[00:50:26] <SWPadnos> it's not like it's a 200V motor or anything dangerous
[00:50:34] <jmkasunich> still need some passives tho
[00:50:36] <crepincdotcom> 2n2222 is 800ma
[00:50:42] <crepincdotcom> its npn though
[00:50:44] <cradek> phase drive on 12 parport pins is as cheap as you will get, and it'll mostly suck
[00:50:45] <Jymmmm> crepincdotcom is it?
[00:50:50] <crepincdotcom> Jymmmm: yes.
[00:50:53] <SWPadnos> sure - or the SMT version, the MMBT2222
[00:50:59] <crepincdotcom> if its a unipolar motor you could do it with those
[00:51:09] <SWPadnos> cradek, that depends on whether you're paying for the computer as well ;)
[00:51:09] <Jymmmm> whats the pnp version od 2n2222 ?
[00:51:22] <jmkasunich> dunno
[00:51:26] <Jymmmm> k
[00:51:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm - 2n2224 or something?
[00:51:37] <jmkasunich> a nice complementary pair is 2n3904/2n3906
[00:51:46] <crepincdotcom> * crepincdotcom prefers mosfets
[00:51:50] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: I don't think so
[00:52:08] <jmkasunich> I wonder if you can get logic level fets in N and P channel cheap
[00:52:12] <SWPadnos> right - 3904/3906 is what I was thinking of - thanks
[00:52:27] <crepincdotcom> jmkasunich: cheap is relative ;-)
[00:52:41] <jmkasunich> no drive circuit needed, just tie the gates together, buffer with a cmos chip that has rail-to-rail outputs (if your parport doesn't)
[00:52:43] <SWPadnos> you don't really need a FET fro 5V 400mA ... (though it is "better")
[00:53:00] <SWPadnos> yes, you can - there are $0.11 SMT FETS
[00:53:06] <SWPadnos> both types
[00:53:11] <SWPadnos> MMBT4403 and friends
[00:53:29] <jmkasunich> saves the various resistors and such you'd need with bipolars
[00:53:38] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/VERSION: 2.1.2 release
[00:53:53] <jmkasunich> high power CMOS logic ;-)
[00:54:02] <crepincdotcom> lol
[00:54:07] <crepincdotcom> 400ma buffers
[00:54:10] <SWPadnos> 4401 is NPN, 4403 is PNP
[00:54:14] <jmkasunich> I just remembered something I saw once
[00:54:27] <SWPadnos> 600mA or thereabouts, $0.09 in 10 qty at digikey
[00:54:37] <jmkasunich> somebody stacked about 20 4000 series hex inverter packages, then paralleled all 6 sections
[00:54:42] <SWPadnos> ops - that's the 200mA part. $0.15 for the 600mA
[00:54:58] <crepincdotcom> haha jmkasunich thats awsome
[00:55:00] <jmkasunich> don't trust any current rating you see on a datasheet
[00:55:05] <crepincdotcom> i really want to try that now
[00:55:42] <SWPadnos> I've seen these transistors work at currents that desoldered them. tacked them back on and they still worked
[00:55:43] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: some of those current ratings are based on case temp of 25C
[00:55:47] <jmkasunich> case, not ambient
[00:56:38] <jmkasunich> not saying they won't work, but they sure as heck won't be guaranteed to work
[00:57:14] <jmkasunich> to know the real current rating you have to figure out the allowable temp rise, then the allowable dissipation, then the current that gives that dissipation
[00:57:14] <SWPadnos> I've had very good experiences with those little parts
[00:57:34] <jmkasunich> most power mosfet vendors spec the current by doing that calc with Tcase = 25C and Tjunction at max
[00:57:34] <SWPadnos> yep. some are rated in case dissipation (350mW or so)
[00:57:35] <crepincdotcom> haha i like SWPadnos' line out of context
[00:57:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:04:10] <Jymmmm> back in 90
[01:24:04] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/VERSION: bump after release
[01:42:41] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: forgot to add this
[01:52:01] <SWPadnos> holy crap: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070226-sinkhole-photo.html
[01:55:15] <ejholmgren> I thought that happened in Cali on a regular basis?
[02:01:28] <ejholmgren> when using a gantry on the x axis ... does it matter where I place the leadnut? ie. on either face or in the middle
[02:22:45] <cradek> EMC2.1.2 is released!
[02:22:52] <cradek> cradek has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.1.2 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[02:24:13] <toast> hokay. I'm looking for a CNC backplotter, not a full controller.
[02:24:30] <toast> has anyone ever tried using EMC for just the backplotting and toolpath stuff?
[02:24:34] <cradek> you can run EMC2 without hardware or realtime
[02:25:07] <toast> and that will essentially give me the toolpath tracing and that's it?
[02:25:25] <cradek> yes it will be just like running machinery, with no machinery
[02:26:25] <toast> sorry, disconnected
[02:26:47] <toastydeath> gah, I apologize
[02:26:49] <cradek> you can build EMC2 on most any modern Linux system, or if you pick Ubuntu 6.06, there are prebuilt packages
[02:26:53] <toastydeath> cool
[02:27:09] <toastydeath> but specifically, how is the toolpath trace and backplot stuff
[02:27:20] <cradek> excellent
[02:27:20] <toastydeath> i notice that the EMC g-code isn't exactly Fanuc standard
[02:27:31] <toastydeath> so I'm concerned testing some production programs on it
[02:28:05] <toastydeath> so while I'm not so much concerned with what appears to be amazing backplotting
[02:28:08] <cradek> yes I bet there are some differences.
[02:28:23] <toastydeath> i'm concerned I'm going to crash as 350,000 dollar mill
[02:28:38] <toastydeath> i guess that's what the e-stop is for
[02:28:45] <toastydeath> well, I'll give this a shot and see what happens
[02:29:00] <toastydeath> ty sir
[02:29:03] <cradek> if you also run the mill with EMC, you'll know they will match
[02:29:05] <cradek> :-)
[02:29:09] <cradek> you're welcome
[02:29:13] <toastydeath> hahah, yeah, i suppose that would be true
[02:29:22] <toastydeath> does EMC support high speed machining
[02:29:31] <toastydeath> with nurbs curves or otherwise
[02:29:56] <cradek> we have the beginning of spline and nurb work, but nothing in the releases yet
[02:30:09] <toastydeath> interesting
[02:30:17] <cradek> we have not seen a lot of users asking for it yet, but a few developers are interested and working on it
[02:30:32] <toastydeath> yeah, not that I know anything about your demographics
[02:30:42] <toastydeath> but i don't really think most people can afford the inserts to do HSM
[02:30:46] <toastydeath> if they're hobbyists persuing this
[02:30:59] <toastydeath> still, it would be cool to see
[02:31:05] <cradek> we have some hobbyists and some pros - a huge variety of machines
[02:31:46] <toastydeath> do you know offhand if EMC supports being wired to a Fanuc control panel
[02:31:50] <cradek> of course since EMC is free/open source, we can't know exactly what people are doing with it - they're sure not required to tell us
[02:31:51] <toastydeath> like, for selecting rapid overrides and stuff
[02:32:05] <cradek> EMC2 has a lot of flexibility for wiring to buttons, jogwheels, etc
[02:32:21] <toastydeath> very cool
[02:32:48] <toastydeath> well, thank you sir for your time
[02:35:17] <toastydeath> questions, the remix
[02:35:28] <toastydeath> what's the ubutnu repository for emc
[02:36:40] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[02:36:53] <cradek> some information here - but it's mostly concerned with getting a realtime system
[02:36:58] <cradek> You can get the simulator only:
[02:37:12] <cradek> deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2.1-sim
[02:37:12] <cradek> deb-src http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2.1-sim
[02:37:27] <cradek> note those sim packages are ONLY for ubuntu 6.06 LTS release
[02:37:46] <toastydeath> i'm running 6.10
[02:37:58] <toastydeath> blast
[02:37:59] <cradek> you will have to build it from source then
[02:38:05] <toastydeath> fair enough
[02:38:06] <cradek> no big deal
[02:39:20] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Pure_Simulator
[02:40:15] <toastydeath> awesome!
[02:40:38] <cradek> not entirely sure that list of build dependencies is still right - please update it if it's not
[02:40:39] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Simulator_on_Ubuntu_6_10_Edgy_Eft
[02:40:51] <cradek> oh hey, look at that
[02:41:17] <toastydeath> this just keeps getting better
[02:41:38] <toastydeath> i bet if i just sit here long enough, someone will ssh into my box, install it, then do all my programming for me
[02:41:44] <SWPadnos> done
[02:41:46] <SWPadnos> oops
[02:42:29] <toastydeath> thanks
[02:42:36] <toastydeath> now i wonder if this will work
[02:43:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I started to do that, but since I'm running edgy for x86_64, it didn't work
[02:43:30] <jepler> SWPadnos: what didn't work, any idea?
[02:43:31] <SWPadnos> there's a problem with asm/bitops.h on x86_64
[02:43:48] <SWPadnos> it isn't there, and the RTAPI bitops says this CPU isn't supported
[02:43:55] <SWPadnos> (at least I think it isn't there)
[02:49:37] <toastydeath> new question: looking at the list of g-codes in the manual, i don't see support for the lathe g-codes
[02:49:54] <toastydeath> g70-74
[02:49:56] <toastydeath> etc
[02:50:10] <toastydeath> am i just looking in the wrong place?
[02:50:47] <cradek> there is some lathe support in EMC2 but it's not at all complete yet
[02:50:57] <toastydeath> still very impressive
[02:51:25] <SWPadnos> check http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Code and add anything that's missing please :)
[02:51:27] <cradek> we have single point threading with multipass canned cycles (compound feed), and tool shape compensation
[02:51:58] <cradek> and lathe tool offsets
[02:52:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that page (and some of the other 20 or so that mention "lathe" may need updating)
[02:52:12] <cradek> SWPadnos: thanks for volunteering!
[02:52:36] <SWPadnos> hahahah - I've almost never touched a lathe :)
[02:52:39] <toastydeath> oh whew
[02:52:44] <toastydeath> you guys do have the really important lathe cycles
[02:53:13] <SWPadnos> that page doesn't say what we have, it's a list of how it's done on various controls
[02:53:20] <toastydeath> oh
[02:53:30] <SWPadnos> (it may also say what we have, I haven't read the whole thing)
[02:53:43] <cradek> are you wanting to use EMC2 to simulate fanuc lathe programs?
[02:53:52] <cradek> that's probably not going to work well, if so
[02:54:02] <cradek> I assumed you were asking about mill, which is much more complete
[02:54:14] <toastydeath> a variety of controllers
[02:54:30] <toastydeath> Fanuc and Haas, primarily
[02:54:38] <cradek> ok you know full well how they're all incompatible then...
[02:54:44] <toastydeath> yep
[02:54:55] <toastydeath> my hope was there was some sort of abstraction
[02:55:09] <toastydeath> between the g-codes themselves and the emc implementation
[02:55:29] <toastydeath> but, i fully understand the purpose of emc is to be a machine controller, not to be an open source backplot
[02:55:38] <cradek> very true
[02:55:57] <toastydeath> it's sort of my only hope, as there's no open source backplot
[02:56:01] <toastydeath> at all
[02:56:07] <toastydeath> so I'm willing to run with this as far as it goes
[02:56:12] <cradek> we like to keep compatibility with commercial controls when we can, but we're not afraid to head in our own directions when we have to
[02:56:47] <toastydeath> no doubt, there's no reason to make yourself insane trying to keep up with the million different controllers
[02:57:01] <toastydeath> it would be cool to have a postprocessor kind of thing though
[02:57:06] <ds3> EMC does not behave the same way as Haas Mill nor does it support the follow idiosyncracies of Lathe mode
[02:57:11] <toastydeath> not like i'm in any position to write or contribute
[02:57:13] <cradek> yeah, the more commercial controls disagree, the worse our compatibility gets, but that's how it goes
[02:57:38] <ds3> toastydeath: do you have sample code on the Haas that blows up with EMC?
[02:57:51] <toastydeath> not yet, because i haven't installed EMC fully yet
[02:58:00] <toastydeath> but I will be putting it through it's paces once i do
[02:58:14] <ds3> I have a perl hack/preprocessor to take my own Haas code and make it EMC palatable
[02:58:41] <toastydeath> hmm, that's a kind of workable idea
[02:58:58] <toastydeath> for dumb stuff like just swapping g-codes i have no problem writing a script to swap it out
[02:59:07] <ds3> but it only does Mill; Lathe is too different
[02:59:29] <cradek> EMC with the AXIS gui has the concept of input filters - your script could translate transparently from haas/fanuc to ngc
[02:59:33] <toastydeath> ds3: your perl script or EMC
[02:59:40] <ds3> there is more than that... some of the can cycles behave slightly differently
[03:00:05] <ds3> toastydeath: my perl script only does Mill; the EMC lathe handling is too different
[03:00:05] <toastydeath> yes, like the automatic roughing/finishing cycles
[03:00:25] <toastydeath> i don't have a problem making two seperate scripts
[03:00:32] <ds3> AFAIK, there are no free/cheap controller with G70/G71 support :(
[03:00:41] <toastydeath> =(
[03:00:50] <ds3> then there is G47 on the mills...
[03:00:58] <cradek> remind us amateurs what g70/g71 are
[03:01:13] <toastydeath> g70-74 are automatic lathe cycles
[03:01:17] <toastydeath> that do roughing
[03:01:26] <cradek> oh, ok
[03:01:34] <toastydeath> so you don't have to sit there and program your toolpath to rough down, and then another one for finishing
[03:01:59] <ds3> G70 and G71 are roughing/finishing cycles; you define the geometry and tell the lathe to leave certain amount of stock in the roughing and tell it the amount to take off per pass
[03:02:22] <cradek> that doesn't sound hard to add. I have a fanuc lathe book that a user sent me just the other day - I'll have a look
[03:02:23] <ds3> it automatically figures out the number of passes; it will also let you over ride the feed rate for roughing; the Fanuc flavor will let you override the tool
[03:02:49] <toastydeath> basically, without 71-74, the controller is not lathe-ready
[03:02:56] <cradek> I assume the passes are deeper at the beginning?
[03:02:57] <toastydeath> but it looks like it has amazing mill support
[03:03:02] <toastydeath> nah
[03:03:05] <toastydeath> it's not like threading
[03:03:08] <ds3> cradek: the strategy to use is not that obvious as you need to figure out if they should be boring or turning
[03:03:14] <ds3> let me find an example
[03:04:32] <toastydeath> 70, as i recall, is turning
[03:04:33] <toastydeath> 71 is facing
[03:04:35] <toastydeath> 72 is finishing
[03:04:40] <cradek> if you guys would like to help us get the information needed to add those features, it would be great if you would add them to our wiki
[03:04:51] <toastydeath> and 73 is somthing retarded like 3d roughing
[03:04:52] <cradek> we need lathe experts as we continue adding lathe support
[03:04:53] <ds3> I would be happy to get you the info, samples, and even test them
[03:04:54] <ds3> =)
[03:05:13] <toastydeath> whose implementation do you want
[03:05:15] <cradek> the wiki is probably the best way
[03:05:16] <toastydeath> haas or faunc
[03:05:22] <ds3> (haas is what i know better)
[03:05:32] <toastydeath> i'd be happy to add stuff i run into as i use it as a backplot
[03:05:56] <cradek> I think ngc/mill is more compatible with fanuc, but I know almost nothing about commercial controls
[03:05:58] <toastydeath> don't know exactly where you want it
[03:06:06] <ds3> haas -G71 is roughing, G70 is finishing
[03:06:07] <cradek> maybe "the one that's most sane" is what we want
[03:06:13] <toastydeath> blast
[03:06:12] <ds3> sample callout:
[03:06:17] <ds3> G71 P25 Q28 U0.01 W0.02 D0.125 F0.007
[03:06:18] <toastydeath> ds3: i have it backwards, then
[03:06:31] <ds3> toastydeath: yeah... I am looking at code that I ran
[03:06:33] <toastydeath> Haas and Faunc are identical on the lathe for most of it
[03:06:46] <toastydeath> it's only when you get to 5 axis stuff that they deviate
[03:06:59] <ds3> toastydeath: uh... no... threading is quite different
[03:06:59] <toastydeath> and some other minor areas
[03:07:06] <toastydeath> (like threading and everything else)
[03:07:21] <toastydeath> well faunc and haas use different words, yes
[03:07:37] <toastydeath> hmm, i guess that is kind of important.
[03:07:37] <ds3> the parameters have different meanings and units :(
[03:09:39] <toastydeath> i don't like the haas controller interface
[03:09:43] <toastydeath> the editing stuff is cool
[03:09:44] <ds3> G71 - P/Q start and end block numbers that describe the geometry; U/W - amount of material to leave X and Y respectively (U/W are stndard lathe relative mode; there is no G91); D - depth of cut per pass; F feed rate over ride
[03:09:56] <toastydeath> but the interface itself is kind of dumb
[03:09:58] <ds3> G70 P25 Q28
[03:10:05] <ds3> P/Q are the geometry block numbers
[03:10:56] <ds3> I have only used one Fanuc lathe and that was painful to setup; had to manually type in machine coordinates into the offset tables; got spoiled by just hitting Diameter measure
[03:11:54] <toastydeath> there are so many damn fanuc controllers it's absurd
[03:12:01] <ds3> *nod*
[03:12:03] <toastydeath> some of them are really, really bad
[03:12:08] <toastydeath> some of them are very good
[03:12:23] <toastydeath> what i like about them over hass is the knobs for feedrate and rapid override
[03:12:30] <toastydeath> makes proofing programs very easy
[03:12:46] <ds3> can you single block on Fanuc?
[03:12:48] <toastydeath> yep
[03:13:12] <toastydeath> single block, block delete, and opt stop are all switches on the control panel
[03:13:13] <toastydeath> no buttons
[03:13:22] <toastydeath> very clearly marked in case you need to hit them real fast
[03:13:43] <ds3> cradek: is there any EMC lathe person in the bay area with space for a lathe?
[03:14:28] <cradek> I'm really the only one who has worked on the lathe part of EMC2, and I'm in the midwest
[03:14:39] <ds3> oh
[03:14:44] <cradek> and I could use a full size mill more than a lathe :-)
[03:15:17] <ds3> the local community college is thinking of getting rid of a Fanuc control based lathe in the next year or so
[03:15:42] <ds3> would be a good machine to check against; I've used it and it has quirks but it works
[03:16:11] <cradek> don't think I know of any takers, but thanks
[03:16:30] <ds3> I'd offer to house it but Ihave no place
[03:16:58] <cradek> now if you have an old bridgeport cnc, let's talk
[03:17:09] <cradek> a series 1 would make a fine EMC conversion
[03:17:11] <ds3> heheh... with the BOSS5 cabinets? ;)
[03:17:28] <cradek> with or without :-)
[03:17:30] <toastydeath> wow, emc did NOT like my lathe program
[03:17:54] <toastydeath> well, i suppose it's not mine
[03:17:58] <ds3> but the school has a Haas lathe already and is going to replace that with another Haas lathe so I can probally convince the instructors to let me check things against it if needed
[03:18:16] <ds3> toastydeath: first fatal problem; EMC does not understand lathe tool change
[03:18:32] <toastydeath> it also does not like G18
[03:18:33] <toastydeath> ?
[03:18:56] <toastydeath> huh. mabye that's not it.
[03:18:57] <cradek> sure, G18 is fine
[03:18:57] <ds3> what's G18?
[03:19:02] <cradek> XZ plane
[03:19:04] <toastydeath> g18 is fine
[03:19:11] <ds3> it doesn't like G96/G92 either
[03:19:32] <ds3> oops...G96/G97 I mean
[03:19:38] <cradek> nope, no CSS
[03:20:10] <ds3> think it also chokes on G50 if I read my notes right
[03:20:18] <toastydeath> spindle max?
[03:20:23] <ds3> yep
[03:20:27] <toastydeath> because i think that's scaling on the mill
[03:20:35] <toastydeath> or cancel scale, or something
[03:22:26] <toastydeath> when it says "near line #"
[03:22:32] <toastydeath> does it mean the line before it or after it
[03:22:59] <cradek> usually it's the line number given, but it may be +- 1
[03:23:22] <toastydeath> damn, i don't think this can do lathe stuff period
[03:23:27] <toastydeath> it's not liking my spindle g-codes
[03:23:33] <toastydeath> so close =(
[03:24:08] <Jymmm> Almost ANY language that says "near line #" or something like that, usually means " I got to line x, and you mucked up something and I can't continue anymore till you fix it"
[03:24:54] <toastydeath> hmm, if i strip out all the misc crap
[03:24:58] <toastydeath> it takes the program
[03:25:48] <toastydeath> so close =(
[03:28:25] <toastydeath> pretty nice gui though
[03:28:27] <toastydeath> i have to admit.
[03:30:30] <ds3> the gui beats the pants off haas
[03:57:35] <twice2> i'm trying to figure out how to setup a tool table so i can do cutter comp, the UG make reference to the 'tool table page' but i can't seem to find that page
[03:57:58] <twice2> i tried google it with no luck
[04:06:46] <twice2> ok, i found in the max sample config dir a max.tbl file, so i guess i just create one with the pocket number of the tool that my cam assigned and try it
[04:39:30] <unterh> I finally resolved to get my bridgeport running and bought a Mesa board
[04:39:57] <unterh> but I'm at a loss as to how to get started.
[04:40:22] <Jymmm> 5120?
[04:40:45] <unterh> yes, going analog
[04:41:13] <Jymmm> They other guys are working on drivers for it, but no ETA
[04:41:25] <SWPadnos> do you have motors / drivers yet?
[04:41:28] <unterh> there is a driver
[04:41:40] <unterh> I have motors and drivers
[04:41:44] <SWPadnos> there is one now, and will be another config "real soon now"
[04:41:58] <SWPadnos> ok - servos with analog inputs?
[04:42:06] <SWPadnos> (err - analog inputs on the drives)
[04:42:15] <unterh> yes, +/- 10v
[04:42:39] <unterh> more specifically, I'm trying to figure out how to enable the drives and hook up limit switches
[04:43:01] <SWPadnos> have you looked at the m5i20 sample config?
[04:43:24] <unterh> I should look at it again
[04:43:47] <SWPadnos> ok. that sets up the mesa hardware and many connections to the motion controller
[04:44:19] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure it deals with all the other I/O, but I think it does have some spindle outputs and limit/home switch inputs in it
[04:44:42] <SWPadnos> probably a coolant output as well, but I'm not sure (I'm not looking at it at the moment)
[04:45:26] <SWPadnos> yep - it looks to be all there
[04:45:53] <unterh> I guess I need to put the mill on the network, can't look at it from here
[04:45:56] <SWPadnos> look in the file m5i20_io.hal for spindle, coolant, lube, mist, spindle brake ...
[04:46:06] <SWPadnos> heh - it's a lot easier if it's on the net
[04:46:31] <SWPadnos> also http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/m5i20/
[04:46:42] <unterh> It could be, I only have one network cable on my bench hooked to another computer
[04:46:55] <unterh> brb
[04:47:06] <SWPadnos> you have to click on the revision number to see the file
[04:56:31] <unterh> I guess ubuntu isn't configured to take remote ssh connections?
[04:56:44] <toastydeath> it isn't?
[04:57:07] <toastydeath> oh snap, it looks like you are right
[04:57:07] <unterh> I can ping it but it refused to connect
[04:57:14] <toastydeath> what kind of madness is this
[04:57:45] <unterh> back to the basement
[04:58:08] <Jymmm> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto
[04:58:21] <unterh> thanks
[04:59:29] <toastydeath> what linux distro doesn't come with ssh-server
[04:59:34] <toastydeath> this is pure madness
[05:00:18] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: stepgen reworked - new core step generator with high resolution feedback, and tweaks to the position control loop to take advantage of it
[05:01:59] <unterh> so sudo apt-get openssh-server should install it?
[05:02:14] <Jymmm> yep, then you might have to enable it
[05:02:56] <jmkasunich> I think it enables when you install
[05:03:18] <unterh> we'll know in a few minutes, apparently I need the excercise
[05:03:19] <jmkasunich> ubuntu is targeted at desktops, no ssh by default is more secure
[05:03:47] <jmkasunich> I had little trouble getting it to work tho - apt-get install was about it if I recall correctly
[05:03:54] <jmkasunich> its been some months ago
[05:04:09] <unterh> didn't know ssh wasn't secure
[05:04:28] <SWPadnos> it's an extra service for portscanning
[05:04:43] <SWPadnos> and most people (those who want a desktop OS that's easy to use) don't need ssh
[05:06:55] <jmkasunich> any running service is a _potential_ hole
[05:09:11] <unterh> true, and most people have no idea what it is and have no need to use it
[05:09:34] <unterh> that worked
[05:12:00] <unterh> is there a better pdf display program on linux, evince is driving me nuts
[05:12:31] <Jymmm> ghost? <snicker>
[05:12:48] <unterh> tempting
[05:13:30] <SWPadnos> I like kpdf
[05:13:49] <SWPadnos> if you install it, it'll grab lots of the KDE libs, so I hope you have a fast connection ;)
[05:14:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I do =)
[05:14:10] <SWPadnos> prick
[05:14:12] <SWPadnos> ;)
[05:14:15] <Jymmm> ROTFLMAO
[05:14:18] <unterh> it was already installed, but evince is the default
[05:14:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Yeah, I'll have you foaming at the mouth soon enough
[05:15:18] <SWPadnos> I still have a faster computer and a higher resolution monitor than you :P
[05:15:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos who cares
[05:15:40] <SWPadnos> me, me!
[05:15:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and I got multiple 10GigE pipes baby!!!!!
[05:16:00] <SWPadnos> unterh, right-click a pdf file, and select "open with other ...
[05:16:01] <toastyde1th> i was thinking about purchasing 3 19" monitors
[05:16:12] <toastyde1th> the bill comes out to 500 bucks
[05:16:17] <unterh> I had a computer with 2 24" lcd monitors on it, but things kept getting lost
[05:16:16] <SWPadnos> then select kpdf, and I think it'll be default from then on
[05:16:32] <SWPadnos> heh - you guys just desxcribed two of the computers in my office ;)
[05:16:33] <toastyde1th> the only issue i ever have on large displays is the mouse
[05:16:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos 800MB in 5.7 minutes =)
[05:16:44] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix zero-radius tool comp
[05:16:47] <toastyde1th> at one time, i used 6 laptops for a unified monitor
[05:16:55] <Jymmm> or was that 8000MB =)
[05:17:16] <SWPadnos> I have 3x19" CRT on this computer, 2x24" LCD on the other one logged in here, and a 22" 3840x2400 LCD on another one :)
[05:17:23] <toastyde1th> a 3072x1536 display is hard on finding your mouse
[05:17:39] <SWPadnos> try it on a 200 PPI LCD
[05:17:49] <toastyde1th> isn't there a beryl module
[05:17:52] <toastyde1th> for like, mouse radar
[05:17:59] <toastyde1th> hit a button and your mouse gives off ripples
[05:18:10] <SWPadnos> probably, but I don't have beryl installed there (or at least not enabled)
[05:18:14] <toastyde1th> i haven't found it in the config yet though, i'm sure it's there
[05:18:31] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix zero-radius tool comp
[05:18:51] <CIA-6> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot1_log.txt
[05:19:18] <SWPadnos> toastyde1th, under System->Preferences->MOuse, there's an option on the Pointers tab called "Hilight the pointer when you press Ctrl"
[05:20:26] <toastyde1th> hmm
[05:20:28] <toastyde1th> that is not awesome water ripples
[05:20:35] <toastyde1th> i demand awesome water ripples.
[05:20:52] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hits toastyde1th with a fire hose
[05:20:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:20:59] <toastyde1th> also i demand sshd enabled by default
[05:21:02] <toastyde1th> but apparently i'm not getting that
[05:21:11] <SWPadnos> you get nothing!
[05:21:16] <toastyde1th> ='(
[05:21:28] <toastyde1th> dear ubuntu: this is not a kerberos server
[05:21:31] <toastyde1th> please enable sshd
[05:21:32] <toastyde1th> <3 toastydeath
[05:22:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:22:05] <Jymmm> Dear toastyde1th, RTFM <3 ubuntu
[05:22:22] <toastyde1th> what does reading the manual have to do with this
[05:22:40] <Jymmm> toastyde1th This aint Burger King, you can't have it your way!
[05:22:46] <toastyde1th> so i am noticing!
[05:22:50] <Jymmm> heh
[05:23:00] <SWPadnos> yes you can, you just have to get in the right line
[05:23:17] <toastyde1th> the "any distribution other than ubuntu" line
[05:23:44] <SWPadnos> no - I'm sure Linspire doens't have sshd enabled by default either
[05:23:50] <unterh> I could almost get used to ubuntu, but emc2 in /etc?
[05:23:57] <unterh> never would have found it
[05:24:05] <toastyde1th> if OpenBSD enables sshd out of the box
[05:24:29] <toastyde1th> and solaris
[05:24:37] <toastyde1th> it's probably okay for a desktop install of ubuntu
[05:25:03] <unterh> most people would never use it though, not a horrible decision
[05:25:12] <toastyde1th> not a horrible decision, no
[05:25:28] <toastyde1th> it does make it more difficult when you need to ssh into somebody's box to fix something
[05:25:31] <toastyde1th> and it's impossible
[05:25:36] <unterh> sudo apt-get install openssh-server made it run
[05:25:54] <toastyde1th> indeed, it does
[05:26:16] <cradek> nobody can pick a set of default packages that will make everyone happy...
[05:26:34] <toastyde1th> i wasn't aware anyone was upset with sshd being on until a half hour ago
[05:26:53] <unterh> I would be upset if telnet was on
[05:27:03] <toastyde1th> i would be upset if telenet was on, too
[05:27:07] <toastyde1th> unless it was kerberized
[05:27:11] <toastyde1th> then i'd be okay with it.
[05:27:17] <cradek> it's best to have no unneeded ports listening - you can't argue with that
[05:27:29] <toastyde1th> i can, and i will
[05:27:30] <toastyde1th> >=[
[05:27:33] <cradek> heh
[05:27:38] <unterh> firewalls
[05:27:50] <cradek> exit, stage left
[05:28:31] <toastyde1th> i am suggesting it's absurd to turn ssh off and remove a standard posix troubleshooting tool
[05:29:11] <toastyde1th> certainly, turn off as many unused demons as you can
[05:29:31] <toastyde1th> but the only place I've ever seen a security administrator turn off sshd was on a kerberos server
[05:30:08] <unterh> people who run linux should be able to read the source and help themselves, right?
[05:30:17] <toastyde1th> not at all
[05:30:20] <SWPadnos> or at least search a wiki and help themselves
[05:30:26] <toastyde1th> search a wiki, absolutely.
[05:30:49] <unterh> actually, there is so much trash out there about linux, it's amazing people can help themselves at all
[05:31:18] <toastyde1th> though the first time i installed linux it took me 3 weeks to get x11 running on slackware
[05:31:30] <unterh> I was looking up something the other day, and there were a batch of pages that talked about 2.2 kernels
[05:32:03] <toastyde1th> a lot of places are still on 2.2 kernels
[05:32:13] <toastyde1th> but 2.2 is pretty irrelevent from a desktop standpoint
[05:32:42] <unterh> I was trying to get my wireless to work
[05:32:47] <toastyde1th> hahahahah awesome
[05:33:02] <toastyde1th> yeah, the people who care about 2.2 probably not too concerned with wireless
[05:33:09] <unterh> who uses 2.2?
[05:33:21] <toastyde1th> datacenter applications, cluster computing
[05:33:32] <toastyde1th> people who care about a uptime a whole damn lot
[05:34:07] <toastyde1th> very willing to sacrifice performance for reliablity
[05:34:30] <unterh> I have realtime stuff at work running on 2.4, but it is behind a firewall. University finds it, and I'm in trouble
[05:34:48] <toastyde1th> woah, why
[05:34:58] <toastyde1th> (why would you be in trouble)
[05:35:12] <unterh> no security updates, I'd have to unplug it from the network
[05:35:14] <toastyde1th> security issues?
[05:35:15] <toastyde1th> yeah
[05:36:01] <unterh> we had a computer rooted within 2 hours one time before they added firewalls
[05:36:26] <toastyde1th> i'm still trying to man up enough to install selinux/ldap/kerberos
[05:36:33] <toastyde1th> and play with it
[05:36:43] <toastyde1th> but the last time i tried i was so confused.
[05:36:54] <cradek> * cradek uses NIS and rsh behind a firewall
[05:37:11] <cradek> talk about bravery
[05:37:13] <toastyde1th> living on the edge
[05:37:57] <toastyde1th> now i have that scarface song stuck in my head
[05:37:59] <toastyde1th> thanks guys
[05:38:04] <toastyde1th> i hate you all
[05:38:11] <toastyde1th> push it to the limit.
[05:38:22] <toastyde1th> PAST THE POINT OF NO RETURN
[05:38:23] <toastyde1th> etc
[05:39:09] <unterh> you got me singing that old Cartman favorite, "I hate you guys"
[05:39:40] <toastyde1th> haha, epic
[05:40:02] <unterh> c'mon guys, sing along, you know the words
[05:40:26] <cradek> come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me - you guys
[05:40:52] <CIA-6> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot1_log.txt
[05:43:16] <toastyde1th> apparently the beryl rain effects require a better graphics card than i have
[05:43:31] <unterh> what is the ssh command line option to display X?
[05:44:30] <cradek> ssh -X
[05:44:52] <unterh> that was my guess, can't get emc to start
[05:45:26] <toastyde1th> ?
[05:45:31] <toastyde1th> are you trying to forward X
[05:45:35] <unterh> yes
[05:45:39] <toastyde1th> oh man
[05:45:40] <toastyde1th> good luck
[05:45:47] <cradek> I use emc that way often
[05:45:49] <unterh> really, I thought it would do it
[05:45:57] <toastyde1th> i used to do that and forgot how
[05:46:31] <unterh> sez "Application initialization failed: couldn't connect to display "myipaddress:0"
[05:46:43] <toastyde1th> also do an xhost +
[05:46:51] <toastyde1th> although that is insecure as all get out
[05:46:51] <cradek> after you use ssh -X, don't mess with DISPLAY
[05:46:58] <cradek> ssh will set it to tunnel for you
[05:47:08] <unterh> ok, that's it then
[05:47:22] <toastyde1th> nevermind xhost is for running dmx
[05:47:39] <toastyde1th> completely ignore me
[05:47:44] <cradek> I'd ignore toastyde1th
[05:47:50] <unterh> it runs
[05:48:00] <unterh> strangely, I was, but not on purpose
[05:49:05] <toastyde1th> a+
[05:50:06] <unterh> at work, I ssh into a linux cluster from a windows pc, and so the ssh client has me all spoiled
[05:50:32] <toastyde1th> back in my day i ssh'ed into clusters in the rain
[05:50:34] <toastyde1th> uphill
[05:50:35] <toastyde1th> both ways
[05:50:51] <toastyde1th> AND LIKED IT
[05:51:14] <unterh> with windows ssh server, you have to click with your toes
[05:52:20] <toastyde1th> i broke two endmills the other day
[05:52:37] <toastyde1th> milling tool steel on a bridgeport kind of sucks
[05:52:38] <unterh> that's no fun
[05:52:45] <toastyde1th> one was a 1" 6 flute dealy
[05:52:54] <unterh> wow, that's really no fun
[05:52:54] <toastyde1th> the other was a 3/4" 3-flute, solid carbide
[05:52:54] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: non-realtime simulator doesnt have 'u32'... grumble grumble
[05:53:19] <toastyde1th> but the toolmakers at work convined with me, and gave me a new cutter that is supposedly a+ for this application
[05:53:37] <toastyde1th> five flute roughing endmill, plus some bridgeport tricks to get it to cut properly
[05:53:49] <unterh> the roughing mills are much better
[05:54:11] <toastyde1th> i am really hoping this one works
[05:54:16] <unterh> I was really shocked how much movement you get out of a bridgeport head when milling steel
[05:54:41] <toastyde1th> yeah, and our mills aren't level
[05:54:45] <toastyde1th> they rock on the base
[05:54:54] <unterh> that's exciting too
[05:54:57] <toastyde1th> so one good jolt starts the whole mill vibrating
[05:55:24] <unterh> I hope mine doesn't move too much, I have a series II, over 5000lbs of cast iron
[05:55:24] <toastyde1th> that's what killed the carbide
[05:55:31] <toastyde1th> the vibration
[05:55:44] <toastyde1th> that, and the powerfeed is jerky at low speed, adding to the problem
[05:55:58] <toastyde1th> yeah, series II shouldn't be a problem
[05:56:12] <toastyde1th> i wanted to take it in to work and run it with a 10" slab mill on the big horizontals
[05:56:23] <toastyde1th> if this doesn't work i'm going to ask if i can do that
[05:56:32] <unterh> what are you making?
[05:56:35] <toastyde1th> 1-2-3 blocks
[05:56:58] <CIA-6> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) non-realtime (2.6.12-10-386) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[05:57:05] <jmkasunich> yay!
[05:57:08] <jmkasunich> I can go to sleep now
[05:57:34] <toastyde1th> yay@
[05:57:50] <ds3> <-- just broke an engraving cutter :(
[05:58:17] <toastyde1th> =(
[05:58:52] <ds3> concrete floors and sharp carbide cutter are a bad combo
[06:00:20] <toastyde1th> do they make ceramic endmill inserts
[06:00:57] <unterh> I'm trying to decide if ds3 dropped the cutter, or is engraving his floor
[06:00:58] <toastyde1th> i'm trying to remember what they use for high speed machining on steel and i can't remember if it's a specific coating, or they somehow got ceramic to survive endmill cuts
[06:01:47] <toastyde1th> oh, it looks like they can use ceramic in endmills
[06:01:48] <toastyde1th> neat
[06:03:59] <toastyde1th> welcome back!
[06:06:00] <ds3> the floor could use some engravings, but alas, it is nothing that reasonable... damn collet released at a bad moment
[06:06:17] <unterh> sorry to hear that
[06:07:49] <unterh> I'm thinking about skipping the home switches on my mill, anyone have any thoughts?
[06:08:58] <toastyde1th> makes for a good re-zeroing of the machine axes
[06:09:34] <ds3> no home switches might have problems if you plan to have multiple machining sessions
[06:09:40] <toastyde1th> if you are concerned about wander
[06:09:43] <toastyde1th> or use fixtures
[06:09:46] <toastyde1th> etc
[06:11:07] <unterh> I did want to use linear encoders originally, which would solve the problem
[06:11:10] <unterh> but it's too much work
[06:11:26] <toastyde1th> abosolute encoders, i assume
[06:11:41] <unterh> no, almost all linear encoders have an index
[06:11:58] <toastyde1th> did not know that
[06:11:58] <toastyde1th> cool
[06:12:17] <unterh> on the Heidenhains, you can move it, it seems to be magnetic
[06:13:16] <toastyde1th> i have not looked at components to build a cnc
[06:13:23] <toastyde1th> so i am unaware as to the options out there
[06:13:45] <unterh> I learned too much shopping on Ebay
[06:14:05] <toastyde1th> hah
[06:14:10] <unterh> "that looks like a good deal, let's go find the manual"
[06:14:16] <unterh> 5 hours later...
[06:14:59] <toastyde1th> nice
[06:15:47] <unterh> let's just say I have some drives that need to go back on Ebay from whence they came
[06:57:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos wake up!
[07:25:51] <Jymmm> anyone remember the name of that surplus place that has motors among other things?
[07:26:09] <Jymmm> ah surpluscenter.com
[07:26:33] <K`zan> Night all.
[07:26:40] <Jymmm> K`zan nite pooky
[11:37:10] <a-l-p-h-a> morn'
[11:43:41] <Dallur> moaning
[13:05:13] <alex_joni> the devel channel shouldn't be flooded with crap :)
[13:05:23] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: NEC WT610 DLP beamer
[13:05:40] <alex_joni> 40cm image size, at 5.5cm distance
[13:06:21] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[13:06:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: NEC WT610 DLP beamer
[13:06:32] <alex_joni> 40cm image size, at 5.5cm distance
[13:06:43] <SWPadnos> err - what?
[13:06:58] <alex_joni> an interesting beamer
[13:06:59] <SWPadnos> small projector?
[13:07:07] <alex_joni> http://www.projectorcentral.com/NEC-WT610.htm
[13:07:20] <alex_joni> not that small, but has some lenses/mirrors inside
[13:07:29] <alex_joni> to shorten the distance to the projecting surface
[13:08:18] <SWPadnos> hmmm. 40 inches image size at 0.2 feet? that seems impossible
[13:09:33] <alex_joni> 20" at 2" distance seems more impossible
[13:10:35] <SWPadnos> less impossible - 0.2 feet is 24 inches :)
[13:10:44] <SWPadnos> argh. 2.4 inches
[13:11:34] <alex_joni> 40" at 2.5 inches, 100" at 25.9"
[13:11:50] <alex_joni> seems nice for tight spaces :)
[13:11:57] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[13:12:22] <SWPadnos> they must have some very good anti-keystoning optics/image processing
[13:13:38] <SWPadnos> I'll bet the throw distance is being represented as the distance from the projector to the surface, and that you need a very high vertical pitch to the screen
[13:13:52] <SWPadnos> wihch makes sense from the photo of the unit
[13:13:55] <alex_joni> yeah
[13:14:18] <alex_joni> they say something about 55° projection angle
[13:14:58] <SWPadnos> well, it looks pretty cool (though it's only 1080i, and the native res is 1024x768)
[13:15:03] <SWPadnos> do you have one?
[13:15:22] <alex_joni> no, I just noticed it in an online store
[13:15:35] <SWPadnos> ah
[13:15:39] <SWPadnos> out of production ...
[13:15:41] <alex_joni> they seemingly stopped manufacturing them
[13:15:49] <alex_joni> yeah, probably there's another model now
[13:15:58] <SWPadnos> probably
[13:17:00] <alex_joni> http://www.projectorcentral.com/NEC-WT610E.htm
[13:17:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:17:38] <SWPadnos> still 1024x768
[13:17:42] <alex_joni> yeah
[13:17:42] <SWPadnos> native anyway
[13:17:47] <alex_joni> but it has wireless :P
[13:18:12] <SWPadnos> I don't think I'd recommend anything non-1080p to anyone right now
[13:18:22] <SWPadnos> but then again, I'm like that ;)
[13:19:15] <rayh> What's the diff between 1080i and p?
[13:19:50] <SWPadnos> 1080i is like normal broadcast, interlaced half-frames at 60 Hz to give you full frames at 30 Hz
[13:20:24] <SWPadnos> 1080p is 30 (or 60) full frames per second, displayed prograssively (like a computer display)
[13:20:44] <SWPadnos> interlacing often causes odd artifacts with scenes that have a lot of motion
[13:21:16] <SWPadnos> (half the frame is from 1/60 second ago, and the other half, intertwined with the first half, is from "now")
[13:21:38] <SWPadnos> can you actually get TV where you are? ;)
[13:32:33] <alex_joni> only DVB
[13:39:07] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ever seen http://www.vitalsystem.com/web/motion/dspmc.php ?
[13:39:43] <SWPadnos> nope
[13:40:21] <SWPadnos> $1315.50
[13:40:21] <alex_joni> sounds like an eth-grex
[13:40:25] <SWPadnos> sort of
[13:41:04] <SWPadnos> odd. 2 MHz encoder counter, 10 KHz step generator??
[13:41:16] <alex_joni> 10KHz???
[13:41:23] <SWPadnos> that's what that page says ...
[13:42:29] <alex_joni> wonder what DSP they used :)
[13:42:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:42:45] <alex_joni> sounds like a more crappy one
[13:43:15] <SWPadnos> no - it's probably a DSP rather than an FPGA
[13:43:39] <alex_joni> that's what I said..
[13:43:47] <SWPadnos> and 10 Khz (if that's no t a typo) is probably being done in software
[13:44:00] <alex_joni> that's still way too low for a DSP
[13:44:11] <SWPadnos> you said "more crappy one" - I assumed you meant more crappy than the G-Rex, which doesn't have a DSP
[13:45:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm. have you looked at their instructions for using EMC with the motenc-100?
[13:45:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.vitalsystem.com/web/motion/motion100.php
[13:46:06] <SWPadnos> use BDI, get this zip file, copy source code, compile ...
[13:46:18] <alex_joni> yuck
[13:46:23] <SWPadnos> yes
[13:46:49] <alex_joni> it's so broken
[13:46:57] <alex_joni> get emc form CVS but use generic.run
[13:47:01] <alex_joni> :-X
[13:47:05] <SWPadnos> oh - that's not as expensive as I thought - $795.50 for the 8-axis board
[13:47:09] <SWPadnos> he
[13:47:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:47:29] <SWPadnos> or maybe I'm used to high proces now
[13:47:33] <SWPadnos> prices
[13:47:48] <alex_joni> imo.. this is a DSP: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MSC8144&nodeId=0127958594
[13:48:28] <SWPadnos> heh, or a TI 32000 (?)
[13:49:09] <alex_joni> 4 1GHz cores :)
[13:49:14] <alex_joni> 10 MB 128-bit memory
[13:49:15] <alex_joni> etc
[13:50:15] <SWPadnos> yep - that's a DSP
[13:52:04] <SWPadnos> I should make a cell-based motion controller
[13:52:14] <SWPadnos> separate core per axis, 6 axis ;)
[13:56:46] <alex_joni> haha, and send SMS's for g-code
[13:56:55] <SWPadnos> ewww
[13:57:05] <SWPadnos> the PS3 motion controller
[13:57:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm - you know, that might actually work
[13:57:48] <SWPadnos> a $300-$500 computer that has excessive performance and multiple processor cores, and can run Linux
[14:00:13] <alex_joni> yeah, but no RT for it
[14:00:19] <alex_joni> unless you want to spend a lot of time :D
[14:00:29] <SWPadnos> well, there's RT and then there's RT ;)
[14:00:59] <SWPadnos> the real problem would be getting any signal out of it other than video
[14:01:52] <alex_joni> what signal?
[14:02:02] <alex_joni> you mean for driving motors?
[14:02:03] <SWPadnos> step/dir, analog ...
[14:02:05] <SWPadnos> yep ;)
[14:02:09] <alex_joni> use the video signal then :D
[14:02:15] <SWPadnos> heh - not enough pins
[14:02:22] <alex_joni> sure there are..
[14:02:31] <alex_joni> but update rate is a bit slow
[14:02:33] <SWPadnos> a DVI breakout board
[14:02:53] <alex_joni> I was thinking analog
[14:03:04] <alex_joni> use a couple lines for one motor
[14:03:20] <SWPadnos> ok - for analog the output is way fast enough, but not high enough resolution
[14:03:40] <alex_joni> you need 6 motors lets say
[14:03:49] <alex_joni> divide one full image in 6 parts
[14:03:51] <SWPadnos> with DVI, if you can get to the TMDS chip, then you can get a 165 MHz update rate
[14:03:54] <alex_joni> and use that for resolution :)
[14:05:09] <alex_joni> SC140 Image Processing Library (StarCore) <- NICE
[14:05:53] <SWPadnos> does it have object tracking and stuff?
[14:24:01] <alex_joni> robin_sz: around?
[14:24:12] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I changed the PSU, and now it's great :D
[15:10:50] <tomp> Dallur: fix your panel problem? i just found some filename length limit and solved it by shortening the filename. this was in a tabbed (notebook) panel that included other files. very repeatable but i use a custom pyvcp_widgets.py.
[15:13:18] <skunkworks> So I followed the direction here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent and it would not see it as a boot device. At the bottom of the page I tried the install-mbr (didn't work) so then I tried the lilo. It sees it as a boot device now but I get an error cannot find kernel vmlinux.
[15:22:17] <tomp> skunkworks: X versus Z check that you told it to use vmlinuz (notice the Z) when you typed in the lilo/grub info if you said vmlinux (notice the X). it may never find a vmlinux , becasue the compressed image is usually called vmlinuz, and searching the web page you posted shows vmlinuz not vmlinux
[15:23:47] <skunkworks> hmm - ok thanks
[15:24:27] <tomp> i did that once too many times ;)
[15:24:41] <SWPadnos> I thought it was vml<tab> ;)
[15:29:58] <skunkworks> I just did an apt-get lilo or whatever then ran the command on the page.. I take it I need to do more?
[15:30:22] <tomp> gotta look
[15:31:50] <tomp> i'm more familiar with grub becuz over the many years of using lilo, i found for the last few years that grub was more flexible for me. at boot time you can ASK grub whats going on...
[15:32:36] <tomp> the instructions on that page look very complex... and i've no experience with booting usb drives (old computers here)
[15:32:56] <skunkworks> thats ok - I will keep looking.
[15:33:04] <tomp> i'd suggest before you try booting with the usb, that you mount it and look at it
[15:33:40] <tomp> look for the files you told lilo to use and where they are, and look at what device the usb is ( likely sda1 )
[15:34:18] <tomp> then make sure the lilo config agrees
[15:35:11] <Dallur> tomp: brilliant, I will test when I get home
[15:35:14] <tomp> attack the error you recieved first, you may be very close already I get an error cannot find kernel vmlinux.
[15:36:23] <tomp> Dallur: heres the ugly bugger... this works t1234567890123456789012345.xml this doesnt t12345678901234567890123456.xml urff!!!
[15:36:58] <tomp> some buffer too small
[15:37:00] <Dallur> tomp: hmm In my case the filename was probably around 10 chars
[15:37:30] <tomp> hmm, can you post/paste anything (simplified )
[15:37:46] <Dallur> tomp: once I get home I can copy/paste with a screenshot
[15:38:00] <tomp> Dallur: that includes the path!
[15:38:56] <tomp> Dallur: i take that back... does not include path
[15:39:26] <jepler> tomp: python should have no trouble handling paths with 100s of characters, and neither should any common linux filesystem
[15:40:27] <tomp> ok, it gives an error on rendering acheckbutton in one case and renders to screen and works fine in the other
[15:41:08] <tomp> the difference is the file is copied to a differnt length name... just copied, no edits
[15:41:43] <jepler> oooohhhhh -- the HAL pin name is based on the filename, and those have a fairly small size limit
[15:42:09] <tomp> k, i can use a smaller name when i know the rules of the game :)
[15:42:36] <jepler> >>> h.newpin("a" * 50, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
[15:42:36] <jepler> >>> h.newpin("a" * 90, hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
[15:42:36] <jepler> HAL: ERROR: duplicate variable 'x.aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa'
[15:42:49] <jepler> I would have expected an error message printed to the terminal, though
[15:43:13] <tomp> righto, i did see that it was the pin name and didnt make that known to you
[15:43:44] <tomp> 32?
[15:48:56] <Guest354> hello
[15:52:51] <Guest354> hello
[15:52:56] <SWPadnos> hello
[15:53:19] <Guest354> is alex_joni on line ?
[15:53:38] <SWPadnos> dunno
[15:55:27] <Guest354> in emc2.1.1, - steppers-mm I can't move spindle speed override with mouse
[15:56:37] <alex_joni> Guest354: hello
[15:56:45] <alex_joni> you need to set the MIN and MAX for spindle override to be able to do so
[15:58:29] <Guest354> alex_joni hi, this is dumitru pop
[15:59:50] <alex_joni> hello
[16:00:26] <Guest354> alex_joni ahere to put min and max ?
[16:04:29] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix another sticky-word problem
[16:07:15] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: fix another sticky-word problem
[16:20:13] <tomp> Guest354: in your .ini file ( eg: ~/emc2-head/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini ) you will find MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = somevalue i see no MIN anywhere
[16:21:05] <Guest354> tomp: thank you, I fix it.
[16:21:24] <tomp> np
[16:23:16] <Guest354> don't know how to control spindle speed
[16:23:59] <tomp> which configuration do you use?
[16:24:35] <Guest354> I use steppers mm for a milling machine
[16:25:03] <tomp> does the widget move now?
[16:25:21] <Guest354> yes, it's ok
[16:25:54] <tomp> does the spindle speed change?
[16:26:26] <Guest354> don't have all hardware setup
[16:27:10] <tomp> ok, you can do some checking with halcmd ( show ) and with halmeter to view what the system thinks is happening
[16:29:09] <Guest354> i suppose that all is ok but i don't know how to implement spindle speed control in HAL
[16:29:57] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-zchanges/ (expected test.ngc test.sh test.tbl test.var): test of sticky Z changes for both entry types
[16:31:10] <tomp> the ini file you chose(and associated hal), has on/off control for spindle, but not speed control ( as far as i can see )
[16:32:02] <Guest354> tomp: yes, but i tried some examples grom hal manuals.
[16:32:29] <tomp> so you can use computer controlled on/off with manual velocity for now, and later write code thru hal to allow spindle speed control ( examples... understood, will look )
[16:34:42] <tomp> which manual?
[16:36:05] <Guest354> in EMC user manual, chapter 4.3.5
[16:36:41] <Guest354> tomp: i want to understand that example
[16:38:10] <tomp> i have different emc user manual, i see you are in right place, in analog output... but my pdf goes 4.3.3 -> 4.4 so i cannot follow exactly
[16:38:21] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
[16:38:33] <SWPadnos> probably
[16:38:58] <tomp> SWPadnos: thanks
[16:39:07] <jepler> in http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf the heading is "Adding PWM Spindle Speed Control"
[16:39:25] <Guest354> emc2 user manual version from February, 19, 2007
[16:40:00] <tomp> Guest354: they just pointed us to a March 7 2007 version, lets both get that
[16:40:29] <SWPadnos> I think that section is unchanged, but it's a good idea to use the correct one for the installed version of EMC2
[16:40:48] <Guest354> in a moment
[16:40:56] <jepler> Guest354: in the AXIS user interface, the spindle override slider will not appear unless the HAL pin motion.spindle-speed-out is connected to something
[16:43:44] <jepler> in tkemc it probably appears all the time
[16:46:07] <Guest354> in tkemc the slider became active after I put values for MIN_SPINDEL_OVERRIDE and MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE
[16:47:35] <tomp> Guest354: in what file?
[16:47:44] <SWPadnos> in the ini file
[16:47:58] <jepler> tomp: the .ini file, section [DISPLAY] (I am guessing)
[16:47:58] <SWPadnos> stepper mm, I think
[16:49:29] <Guest354> the section 4.3.5 is the same in emc2 user guide February and March versions
[16:49:47] <SWPadnos> ok - that's good :)
[16:50:46] <jepler> Guest354: what kind of speed input does your spindle have? The example in section 4.3.5 is for a spindle which has a PWM speed input or a 0-5V analog speed input
[16:51:03] <tomp> my cvs checkout of 20070211 has stepper_mm.ini and the word override only appears in [DISPLAY], and the only as MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE not for spindle the only reference to spindle in the file is ... 'spindle' never occurs
[16:51:15] <tomp> 20070311
[16:51:16] <SWPadnos> ok - there's no information in the manual avout those INI settings
[16:51:18] <SWPadnos> about
[16:51:30] <jepler> tomp: right, that's why Guest354 had to add it
[16:51:45] <tomp> ok
[16:52:15] <Guest354> because there is no reference, that's why I asked here
[16:53:46] <Guest354> i want to use pwm speed input
[16:54:16] <SWPadnos> input?
[16:55:13] <Guest354> input for controller, output from parralel port
[16:55:19] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[16:55:50] <tomp> (output) the example outputs pwm on pin 9 of the loaded parallel port. did you look at that pin with a meter or scope?
[16:56:21] <Guest354> no, i want to use a real scope.
[16:56:45] <tomp> did you add the code to the .hal file ( yes real meter real scope, np)
[16:57:24] <Guest354> yes but i don't know if it works
[16:57:41] <SWPadnos> you're using tkemc?
[16:58:01] <Guest354> yes
[16:58:40] <SWPadnos> ok - you need to hit F1 (estop reset) then F2 (machine on) to make emc output anything to the spinde
[16:59:30] <Guest354> my experimental setup works at that level, i can move all 3 axes
[17:00:11] <tomp> connect real scope to pin 9
[17:00:34] <SWPadnos> ok, so if you issue M3S100 in MDI mode, you get no output?
[17:00:51] <Guest354> ok, but i can't do it now
[17:00:57] <tomp> ok
[17:03:54] <Guest354> many thanks to the emc2 team for help&time
[17:04:11] <SWPadnos> no problem. come back any time
[17:04:15] <tomp> best of luck
[17:04:38] <Guest354> how can I get a user name ?
[17:05:03] <SWPadnos> send a message to nickserv for help: /msg nickserv help
[17:05:26] <SWPadnos> are you using the web client from Linuxcnc.org?
[17:05:45] <Guest354> yes
[17:06:47] <SWPadnos> ok. if you have Mozilla or FireFox installed on your machine, you can install the extension "Chatzilla"
[17:07:23] <SWPadnos> it's a little easier than going through the java headache every time, and you can set it up to automatically connect to freenode (and this channel), and to log conversations
[17:08:29] <Guest354> ok, i will try that
[17:13:40] <skunkworks> well - I got emc to boot off of a keychain drive. (was my mistake initially as I forgot to copy a few files that where needed)
[17:14:03] <skunkworks> took 3 computers before it worked - the first two I tried must have been too new.
[17:14:26] <skunkworks> 3rd times a charm. ran emc2 stepper_inch config no problem
[17:15:16] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all. Services are going down for a quick re-start, hold on to your ops and we'll see you on the flipside. Thank you for flying freenode and have a great day!
[17:32:23] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, that's off a USB stick?
[17:38:51] <skunkworks> yes
[17:38:58] <skunkworks> SWPLinux: yes
[17:39:14] <SWPadnos> great - you dod the work so I don't have to ;)
[17:39:17] <SWPadnos> did
[17:39:39] <SWPadnos> it's basically like that Ubuntu wiki page?
[17:39:50] <skunkworks> I had to use lilo before it would actually boot - but the direction on the page are what I used
[17:39:51] <skunkworks> yes
[17:40:03] <tomp> what fixed it?
[17:40:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I didn't read that page - do they mention syslinux or grub?
[17:40:19] <SWPadnos> or did those not work correctly
[17:40:37] <skunkworks> I had forgotten to coppie a few of the files that needed to be in the root of the usb drive
[17:40:45] <tomp> a bit weird it used casper
[17:41:17] <tomp> /weird/ new
[17:41:20] <skunkworks> syslinux is what I tried initially - but none of my computers would see it as a boot device untul I did lilo
[17:44:09] <skunkworks> the wiki showed 3 different ways to make it bootable - but only lilo worked.
[17:44:13] <skunkworks> for me\
[17:45:51] <SWPadnos> odd. I'll have to try messing with that soon (in the next 3 weeks or so at least)
[17:46:14] <skunkworks> this should be persistant also - but I have not tried it yet.
[17:46:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I guess I should get another >600M USB stick
[17:46:22] <SWPadnos> right
[17:46:50] <SWPadnos> but it's still booting the "liveCD" system right? so it can detect video and all that jazz
[17:46:58] <skunkworks> I installed it on a 1gb dive. I made the primary partion 750mb and the ext3 partion what was left over
[17:47:05] <skunkworks> right
[17:47:12] <SWPadnos> ok - that's what I'll need
[17:47:16] <SWPadnos> cool
[17:47:20] <skunkworks> yes it is,
[17:47:58] <skunkworks> like I say - I have only gotten 1 computer so far to boot from it. usb/bios seems to be a bit pickyer
[17:49:57] <cncjunior> hello
[17:55:12] <alex_joni> hi
[17:56:23] <cncjunior> hi, thnak you for your help with spindle speed override
[17:56:32] <alex_joni> sorry I left in the middle of it :)
[17:56:36] <alex_joni> glad you figured it out
[17:56:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to put the stuff into the documentation
[17:56:56] <cncjunior> can we talk in romanian here ?
[17:57:04] <alex_joni> better in /msg
[18:01:13] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I should say 4 machines have booted off of it - only one has started the gui. (the rest didn't find the video card)
[18:01:23] <SWPadnos> ah - ok
[18:04:50] <a-l-p-h-a> the joys of making 25 of something, repeatively. :(
[18:04:54] <a-l-p-h-a> horray for CNC...
[18:05:00] <a-l-p-h-a> otherwise I would never ever ever ever do it.
[18:14:22] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:21:09] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: begin documenting items that configure the GUIs
[18:21:27] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: label used from ini_config.lyx
[18:36:08] <Jymmmm> Which would be better for emc2: 600MHz w/512 cache -OR- 1000MHz w/256 cache (both SLOT1) ?
[18:36:28] <SWPadnos> whichever one works better
[18:36:30] <jepler> either is likely to be fine
[18:36:38] <cradek> does that mean PIII? both are fine
[18:36:45] <Jymmmm> Yeah P3
[18:37:16] <skunkworks> I am running on a 600 pIII right now. works good.
[18:37:22] <Jymmmm> So L2 cache means squat?
[18:37:59] <SWPadnos> it's possible that the larger cache would help if you use an exceedingly short BASE_PERIOD
[18:38:11] <SWPadnos> but otherwise it won't change much
[18:38:18] <Jymmmm> 18000
[18:38:39] <SWPadnos> use the 600/512
[18:38:45] <skunkworks> damn IE
[18:39:05] <jepler> Jymmmm: if you can, run the latency test on both (from the CD) and see which gives the lower latency number
[18:39:07] <Jymmmm> k
[18:39:25] <SWPadnos> that's 18 uS (nominal), which is 90000 cycles. that gives a better chance of base thread functions remaining in cache
[18:39:27] <Jymmmm> is the cd bootable?
[18:39:29] <jepler> Jymmmm: have you seen jmk's page on stepper setup, including the spreadsheet? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[18:39:47] <SWPadnos> err - 10800 cycles
[18:40:04] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yes, that's why it's called a LiveCD
[18:40:08] <jepler> Jymmmm: yes, there's a bootable/installable emc2 live cd on the linuxcnc.org website
[18:41:04] <Jymmmm> Last I knew, it was based in ubuntu, never knew there was a live cdi after puppy
[18:41:07] <skunkworks> I have a question - I was running some text yesterday and I thought it was a bit jerkyier than I would hav liked. It would be smooth then would star to jerk in some locations. Could it be starved for segments?
[18:41:43] <cradek> skunkworks: possibly
[18:42:02] <jepler> skunkworks: listening to/watching the machine, or just watching the plot?
[18:42:12] <skunkworks> feeling/watching the machine
[18:42:17] <cradek> skunkworks: does a tight base period make your machine pretty slow while emc is running? that might cause starvation
[18:42:29] <cradek> you're using 2.1.x I assume?
[18:42:39] <skunkworks> I am running 50us - it will run lower
[18:42:56] <skunkworks> yes - latest installed emc2
[18:43:26] <skunkworks> I was going to hook it up to my laptop and see if it ran better - just have not gotten around to it.
[18:43:37] <skunkworks> this was using g64 strait up.
[18:43:57] <Jymmmm> FWIW... under DOWNLOAD section it doesn't list the LIVECD, except for the sidebar.
[18:44:11] <Jymmmm> err NEWS Sidebar
[18:44:33] <cradek> skunkworks: can you post the gcode somewhere? maybe your ini too?
[18:45:16] <jepler> Jymmmm: You're *supposed* to find it by clicking Download, then Basic Installation
[18:45:31] <skunkworks> ok - I will tonight.
[18:45:37] <jepler> Jymmmm: maybe you didn't have any idea what Basic Installation was, since it is not explained on the Download page?
[18:45:39] <jepler> (I don't blame you)
[18:45:58] <Jymmmm> jepler: maybe add a "(also known as LiveCD)"
[18:46:42] <skunkworks> cradek: I will tonight.
[18:47:17] <cradek> ok - jerkiness usually does mean starvation, but it's hard to diagnose without more info, maybe one of us can reproduce it
[18:47:26] <skunkworks> wait - I think I have it on my keychain drive
[18:50:48] <Jymmmm> where is wget usually?
[18:50:53] <Jymmmm> path
[18:51:15] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DEDoffset.ngc
[18:52:42] <SWPLinux> Jymmmm: /usr/bin/wget on ubuntu
[18:52:51] <Jymmmm> thanks
[18:54:20] <skunkworks> this was mostly x/y movement so 50us base period and input scale of x and y of 2540 and z of 10000
[18:54:48] <cradek> do you remember if there's a certain part of the program that was jerky?
[18:55:10] <skunkworks> it was on every letter that was curved.
[18:55:31] <jepler> I reamed the 'download' page pretty heavily: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=4&lang=en
[18:56:04] <cradek> skunkworks: hmm
[18:56:18] <skunkworks> cradek: it could be me.
[18:56:27] <skunkworks> what do you see?
[18:57:17] <cradek> I'm watching "sim" cut the Ds and halscope shows the tangential velocity staying at about .333 (F20)
[18:57:32] <cradek> were you cutting at F20?
[18:57:39] <skunkworks> yes
[18:57:53] <cradek> hmm
[18:58:36] <skunkworks> acc set to 10
[18:58:40] <skunkworks> for x and y
[18:59:01] <cradek> sim is 20 - I will change it to 10
[19:01:59] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone ever deal with loctite 609?
[19:02:59] <cradek> skunkworks: it looks quite good here - tangential velocity varies between .333 and .32 going around those curves
[19:03:16] <cradek> skunkworks: maybe your TRAJ or SERVO thread is set badly
[19:03:26] <skunkworks> ok - could just be my slow computer. Will try my portable.
[19:03:34] <SWPadnos> a-l-p-h-a, I have a bottle of it
[19:03:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no, mine's 680
[19:03:46] <SWPadnos> sorry
[19:04:16] <skunkworks> cradek: I will check that.
[19:04:30] <cradek> I doubt it's a slow computer - around those curves it's only using 10-15 segments a second, which is not at all hard to keep up with
[19:05:21] <cradek> if you can't spot the trouble, I'd like to see your ini next
[19:05:38] <skunkworks> Ok - I really don't have that here ;)
[19:05:47] <cradek> sure, later
[19:06:13] <skunkworks> cradek: the sing turned out really good though
[19:06:15] <skunkworks> sign
[19:06:30] <cradek> what did you use to generate the font?
[19:06:57] <skunkworks> Not your program.. It was some font to g-code utility I had found on the web
[19:07:25] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, looking for something that's like super glue, but for metal.
[19:07:31] <skunkworks> I then offset it to do the pocketing. sort of a pain ;)
[19:07:34] <cradek> yeah, mine can't fill like that
[19:07:39] <skunkworks> oh - I did that manually
[19:07:48] <a-l-p-h-a> 609 has like a gap fill of 0.005". But I'm not sure if that's good enough
[19:07:53] <cradek> ahh, that does sound like a pain
[19:08:24] <skunkworks> it went pretty quick - using acad is like riding a bike.....
[19:08:32] <a-l-p-h-a> I used a #30drill bit, for a 0.125 +/- 0.002 stainless steel 304 shaft... doing a test to see if they fit with each other or not.
[19:08:34] <cradek> yeah, me too
[19:08:42] <cradek> and its offset works well
[19:08:50] <a-l-p-h-a> autocad... :) crayons + ruler for the computer.
[19:09:14] <a-l-p-h-a> wish I bought their stock when it was $5, now it's $50, after 3-4 years
[19:09:27] <skunkworks> although acad 2000 offsets much better than acad 12. acad 12 would get lost on some of the letters - ended up finishing it in 2000
[19:09:56] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/inifile/ (inifile.cc inifile.hh): -Added table driven Find() method to handle enums, bool.
[19:09:58] <a-l-p-h-a> skunkworks, you should try 2006+, it's really nice, especially if you have a relatively new computer and vid card. it's a really nice GUI now
[19:10:18] <skunkworks> a-l-p-h-a: cool - have not looked at it
[19:10:20] <cradek> autocad's really nice gui = dos, 1996
[19:10:37] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, I've been using autocad since v10.
[19:10:44] <a-l-p-h-a> in 1994. :(
[19:10:58] <cradek> 11 here, maybe 95
[19:11:12] <cradek> never had anything newer than 12 though
[19:11:11] <a-l-p-h-a> I was teaching autocad in highschool, as a peer tutor...
[19:11:11] <skunkworks> yah - I think 11 here also
[19:11:18] <anonimasu> hm, now it's time to find out how to do preheat and stuff with sheetcam
[19:11:32] <cradek> in 11 it was a pain to edit polylines because there were no grips
[19:11:39] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/ (emcIniFile.cc emcIniFile.hh): -New module for handling EMC specific types in INI file.
[19:11:45] <cradek> that's the big improvement I remember
[19:11:46] <anonimasu> need to wire up the cutting valve tomorrow
[19:11:55] <anonimasu> got 130 parts to run :)
[19:12:05] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, did you make the plasma cutter?? :)
[19:12:14] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, photos?
[19:12:32] <anonimasu> no photos..
[19:12:32] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, any hawt CNC porn... or real porn if you must?
[19:12:34] <anonimasu> running oxyfuel..
[19:12:38] <a-l-p-h-a> d a m n y o u
[19:12:43] <anonimasu> plasma is overrated for thick stuff..
[19:12:59] <anonimasu> unless you have a big(bigger then my plasma)
[19:13:10] <anonimasu> im cutting 20mm at ~400mm/min now..
[19:13:16] <a-l-p-h-a> nice.
[19:13:29] <anonimasu> slow :/
[19:13:29] <a-l-p-h-a> and no videos. nor photos.
[19:13:29] <LawrenceG> cradek: good afternoon... on thepwmgen module in hal, what determines the total length of the pwm cycle?
[19:13:39] <anonimasu> 15-300mm is the rating of the torch I have :)
[19:13:55] <a-l-p-h-a> uh, so how'd you 'overclock' it?
[19:14:03] <a-l-p-h-a> all hail jlmjvm
[19:14:07] <anonimasu> the plasma?
[19:14:13] <anonimasu> I dont, I run oxyfuel..
[19:14:17] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, OOOH.
[19:14:29] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, :) okay... how clean are the edges/
[19:14:28] <jepler> LawrenceG: did you read 'man pwmgen'?
[19:14:31] <anonimasu> clean..
[19:14:39] <anonimasu> no kerf at all
[19:14:49] <LawrenceG> cradek: I would like to try making a coarse spindle spped control for a trim router using a "hockey puck" SSR
[19:14:54] <a-l-p-h-a> really? cool... did you use the T or H gantry design?
[19:15:00] <anonimasu> T
[19:15:04] <a-l-p-h-a> ridgid enough?
[19:15:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:15:30] <a-l-p-h-a> cool. I'm hungry... bbiab.
[19:15:32] <anonimasu> the trouble is the belts(length)
[19:15:32] <LawrenceG> jepler: yes.... I see the function that is called from a high speed thread,
[19:15:56] <LawrenceG> jepler: that would determine the minimum pulse width
[19:15:59] <anonimasu> but as I drive both rails it works really well..
[19:16:01] <cradek> LawrenceG: did you read man pwmgen?
[19:16:11] <jepler> LawrenceG: look for 'pwm-freq' in the manual page
[19:16:12] <cradek> LawrenceG: there's a whole mess of options
[19:16:33] <cradek> oh look, jepler gave the same advice above
[19:16:35] <cradek> sorry
[19:16:44] <cradek> it must be good advice
[19:17:03] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: the only problem is the preheat and pierce stuff
[19:17:26] <LawrenceG> cradek: np.... using a triac based SSR means any pulse will hold the SSR on for up to 8ms
[19:17:32] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I have no idea how to make sheetcam do it
[19:18:04] <cradek> with no feedback it's not really going to work very well, is it?
[19:18:30] <LawrenceG> cradek: but I really only need 3 or 4 speeds .... trim router has very little load with pcb engraving bits
[19:19:23] <anonimasu> is there a dwell g-code?
[19:19:41] <LawrenceG> cradek: will give it a try on the bench
[19:19:48] <jepler> anonimasu: yes. G4. quick reference: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode.html
[19:20:06] <cradek> LawrenceG: definitely sounds like it's worth a try
[19:21:53] <duerz> what does 2.1.2 fix?
[19:21:58] <anonimasu> hm
[19:22:25] <cradek> duerz: are you on the users list? I sent the changelog with the announcement
[19:22:33] <jepler> duerz: there's a list here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[19:23:02] <duerz> no - i dont think im on the users list
[19:24:50] <duerz> can I get an update with a .sh file?
[19:24:57] <duerz> over internet?
[19:25:37] <jepler> duerz: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates
[19:26:17] <duerz> cool
[19:26:39] <duerz> just wish it would fix this freakin vti card
[19:27:02] <Jymmmm> Cool, I can upload iamges to my gps (splash screen, waypoint symbols, etc)
[19:27:35] <jepler> duerz: did you try contacting eric johnson? he is the last developer of hal_vti and from his e-mail messages it sounds like he actually owned one of the cards.
[19:28:03] <duerz> yes - he e-mailed back - but i still cant get it to work.
[19:28:15] <duerz> its closer now
[19:28:24] <duerz> but no cigar
[19:29:41] <jepler> duerz: it takes a developer with access to the hardware, and nobody but him seems to fit that bill.
[19:31:26] <anonimasu> 6woohoo
[19:31:28] <anonimasu> I have piercing and stuff working
[19:31:29] <anonimasu> :)
[19:31:45] <duerz> does he got a phone number?
[19:31:57] <anonimasu> no
[19:32:03] <anonimasu> err sorrt
[19:32:06] <anonimasu> wrong place :D
[19:32:12] <anonimasu> lots of people looking for people
[19:32:17] <cradek> if he emailed you back, surely that's the way to get his phone number if he wants to give it to you
[19:32:18] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, I don't know sheetcam.
[19:32:23] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I just changed the post, a bit
[19:32:52] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I'll wire up the valve for preheat/cut tomorrow
[19:33:16] <a-l-p-h-a> cool.
[19:33:19] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, photos. :)
[19:33:26] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: no :D
[19:33:26] <a-l-p-h-a> photos are your friend, as well as ours. :)
[19:33:28] <a-l-p-h-a> :(
[19:33:38] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I've got one but I cant get it off my phone
[19:33:38] <a-l-p-h-a> you don't share any of the good cnc porn.
[19:33:47] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.hh: -Changed EMC axis type defines to an enum.
[19:34:08] <anonimasu> yeah I found a cable.
[19:34:23] <anonimasu> I've got a picture
[19:35:12] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/Submakefile: -Added emc/ini/emcIniFile to libemc sources.
[19:36:41] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/iniaxis.cc: -Cleaned up access to INI file.
[19:37:57] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: a action shot :)
[19:38:18] <anonimasu> but I need to get my mouse living agian
[19:39:54] <Jymmmm> CODE BLUE... Rodent Ward!
[19:42:03] <anonimasu> just need to grab 162 images off my cellphone
[19:44:12] <robin_sz> has anybody seen my camel?
[19:44:38] <Jymmmm> No, we haven't seen your wife. <rimshot>
[19:45:58] <Jymmmm> fuck it's already 1300.... this time change always throws me off
[19:45:59] <anonimasu> now..
[19:46:38] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/7613
[19:46:52] <Jymmmm> wb LawrenceG
[19:47:14] <anonimasu> dust protection is another issue I\ve yet to tackle.
[19:47:38] <Jymmmm> anonimasu wrap the whole thing in plastic sheet =)
[19:47:53] <anonimasu> the outer edge looks bad because it's re-cut..
[19:48:24] <Jymmmm> how thick is the stock?
[19:48:28] <anonimasu> 20mm
[19:48:58] <Jymmmm> ah, I was gonna say 1/2"
[19:49:20] <anonimasu> got some parts in 40mm comming up soon
[19:49:29] <anonimasu> but I badly need the preheat stuff working
[19:49:53] <Jymmmm> cellphone pic?
[19:49:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:50:01] <Jymmmm> not bad
[19:50:08] <anonimasu> it's a bad one :/
[19:50:08] <Jymmmm> original size?
[19:50:09] <anonimasu> really
[19:50:21] <anonimasu> it's blurry because I trued to hurry to get one in the cut :)
[19:50:49] <Jymmmm> 816x612 is that the resolution your camera takes?
[19:51:00] <anonimasu> no
[19:51:02] <anonimasu> double..
[19:51:10] <Jymmmm> 1600x1200 ?
[19:51:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:51:18] <anonimasu> I scaled it in paint ;)
[19:51:20] <Jymmmm> what phone is this?
[19:51:30] <anonimasu> k750i
[19:51:30] <anonimasu> old :)
[19:51:38] <Jymmmm> cool
[19:51:48] <SWPadnos> never scale by anything ither than an integer factor, unless you're using professional tools (and not even then) :)
[19:52:03] <anonimasu> ^^
[19:52:04] <SWPadnos> s/ither/other/
[19:52:38] <SWPadnos> nice cutting though - very cool (or hot)
[19:52:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:52:56] <anonimasu> I need height control to go faster :/
[19:52:56] <SWPadnos> thick metal there
[19:53:05] <anonimasu> ~500mm/min is the speed it should be cutting 20mm at..
[19:53:27] <Dallur> how fast are you going now ?
[19:53:39] <anonimasu> about 360
[19:54:32] <anonimasu> still not bad.. but the closer you get the nozzle the faster you can go
[19:55:18] <Dallur> how far off you running now ?, 3mm ?
[19:55:40] <anonimasu> 3-4..
[19:55:40] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:55:42] <anonimasu> maybe higher..
[19:56:35] <anonimasu> Dallur: also, it may be a setup issue(how much gas)
[19:56:41] <anonimasu> acetylene/oxygene..
[19:56:49] <anonimasu> "oxygen" sorry :)
[19:57:03] <anonimasu> need to set up home swithces tomorrow
[19:57:08] <cradek> lerman: around? I have a program that reportedly runs on EMC2.1 but not on cvs trunk, can I send it on to you?
[19:57:24] <lerman> Sure.
[19:57:33] <cradek> email?
[19:57:35] <Dallur> anonimasu: Yeah, somehow they always seem to be the last thing on the agenda although they probably should be the first :D
[19:57:40] <anonimasu> Dallur: agreed..
[19:57:47] <lerman> email to lerman-emc at se-ltd.com
[19:57:48] <anonimasu> Dallur: I'm never building a cnc without adding them first..
[19:57:59] <robin_sz> anonimasu, so waht you going to do for height control?
[19:58:07] <robin_sz> plate rider, or someting electronic?
[19:58:07] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I've yet to decide..
[19:58:09] <lerman> cradek: where did the program come from?
[19:58:11] <anonimasu> electronic..
[19:58:16] <anonimasu> laser/ultrasonic..
[19:58:24] <anonimasu> or capacitive..
[19:58:36] <robin_sz> oh, ok
[19:58:40] <anonimasu> or inductive..
[19:58:51] <robin_sz> mmm .. all very novel for oxy
[19:58:54] <anonimasu> I'm having some issues finding sensors..
[19:59:00] <Dallur> anonimasu: inductive will give you about 2% error in repeatability
[19:59:12] <anonimasu> Dallur: depends on what kind of sensor..
[19:59:20] <robin_sz> capacative is probably the most common
[19:59:25] <anonimasu> Dallur: there are very repeatable inductive..
[19:59:25] <robin_sz> that an ionisation
[19:59:38] <robin_sz> indictive is unlikely to work
[19:59:44] <anonimasu> how so?
[19:59:48] <anonimasu> I have analog inductive sensors ;)
[19:59:59] <anonimasu> that I do positioning with at the machines we build..
[20:00:03] <robin_sz> sure
[20:00:08] <cradek> lerman: a user sent it to me
[20:00:12] <robin_sz> but where will you put it?
[20:00:18] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's the issue ;)
[20:00:21] <robin_sz> quite
[20:00:36] <anonimasu> ultrasonic would work..
[20:00:41] <robin_sz> capacative is usally doen with a ring, with a 25mm hole or so in it
[20:00:52] <robin_sz> ultrasonic would fail for the same reasons
[20:00:52] <anonimasu> yeah but finding one seems hard..
[20:01:02] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ultrasonic are long range..
[20:01:11] <robin_sz> and?
[20:01:26] <anonimasu> mounting them on top of the slide would work..
[20:01:37] <robin_sz> you going to sense what ? just ahead of the cut?
[20:01:51] <anonimasu> yeah, or besides..
[20:01:52] <cradek> lerman: sent
[20:02:06] <alex_joni> robin_sz: dude!
[20:02:06] <robin_sz> besdies excellent choice
[20:02:46] <robin_sz> anonimasu, besides is great ... assuming your machine knows where "besdies" is .. or you only cut straingt lines on one axis
[20:02:58] <robin_sz> alex_joni, Dood!
[20:03:05] <alex_joni> robin_sz: changing the PSU worked wonders
[20:03:14] <robin_sz> alex_joni, perfect
[20:03:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: you have no clue about what kind of logic I'd use to control it..
[20:03:15] <alex_joni> no more hum, not even while on IR
[20:03:33] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it's not like sheets go +4mm in a few decimeters..
[20:03:46] <robin_sz> anonimasu, I have seen more cutting machines and more attempts to try and sense height than I have had hot dinners
[20:04:10] <robin_sz> anonimasu, err, wait till you cut multiple parts and one sticks up a bit ...
[20:04:17] <robin_sz> anonimasu, or you go to the edge of the sheet
[20:04:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: also ultrasonic have fairly wide area..
[20:05:15] <robin_sz> capacative ring ...
[20:05:31] <anonimasu> robin_sz: where do you get that kind of sensor?
[20:05:33] <anonimasu> for a sane price?
[20:05:36] <robin_sz> alex_joni, you have seen " a few" oxy fuel CNC cutters?
[20:05:38] <Jymmmm> To get the best edge finish, feed slow, rom's high?
[20:05:42] <Jymmmm> rpm's
[20:05:47] <robin_sz> anonimasu, less than $10 .. build it yourself
[20:05:58] <anonimasu> how?
[20:05:59] <alex_joni> robin_sz: a few, and also a bit of plasma's
[20:06:40] <robin_sz> alex_joni, explain to anonimasu why sensing is done the way it is and how laser, ultrasonic etc are just a painful way to have no fun
[20:07:03] <robin_sz> anonimasu, simple oscillator from a couple of TTL invertors at about 10mhz
[20:07:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, I have no idea how to build that.
[20:07:26] <robin_sz> well then you are screwed
[20:07:39] <alex_joni> anonimasu: all those robin_sz mentioned migh work in 80% of the cases
[20:07:47] <alex_joni> it's the other 20% that will bite you
[20:07:50] <robin_sz> yep
[20:07:53] <alex_joni> unless you use more than one sensor
[20:08:06] <alex_joni> and do some min/max math on the feedbacks
[20:08:13] <robin_sz> and the 20% wil be the ones that bust the tip off your torch
[20:08:20] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ofcourse..
[20:08:22] <alex_joni> robin_sz: it's replaceable :D
[20:08:33] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont see why my torch would dip that low, if I cap it..
[20:08:43] <alex_joni> anonimasu: if you're willing to mount 4-5 ultrasonics around the head, it might just work
[20:08:54] <robin_sz> alex_joni, spoken liek a true torch salesman :)
[20:09:09] <alex_joni> robin_sz: _anything_ is replaceable
[20:09:12] <alex_joni> :-P
[20:09:17] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'd bet you a ultrasonic would work.
[20:09:24] <robin_sz> OK, if you cant build electronics ... then the Rutex height sensor is good
[20:09:34] <anonimasu> while we can talk about it forever..
[20:09:45] <robin_sz> well, ive seen em tried ...
[20:09:51] <anonimasu> the sheets are very flat..
[20:09:53] <alex_joni> anonimasu: indeed.. prove us wrong :D
[20:11:14] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'd like a capacitive ring sensor, but finding one seems hard.
[20:11:15] <robin_sz> http://www.rutex.com/us/home/Oxy_Torch_&_Plasma_Control/R982kit.htm
[20:11:24] <robin_sz> use the rutex one
[20:11:33] <robin_sz> or build one for $10 .. your call
[20:11:56] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, if I can find a schematic it wouldnt be a problem
[20:12:05] <alex_joni> robin_sz: filtering out HF might be an issue
[20:12:18] <alex_joni> for someone that has never tried it before
[20:12:48] <robin_sz> anonimasu, on oxy?
[20:12:55] <robin_sz> alex_joni, on oxy
[20:12:55] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:12:59] <anonimasu> :D
[20:13:04] <robin_sz> sorry, that was for alex
[20:13:10] <robin_sz> alex_joni, no HF on oxy :)
[20:13:24] <lerman> cradek: I'm having trouble just starting emc2 -- what did I screw up?
[20:13:32] <SWPadnos> HEAD?
[20:13:41] <SWPadnos> err - TRUNK?
[20:13:52] <robin_sz> anonimasu, just buy this: http://www.rutex.com/us/home/Oxy_Torch_&_Plasma_Control/R982pcb.htm
[20:14:20] <lerman> I getr Application initialization failed ... this isn't a TK application...
[20:14:25] <anonimasu> robin_sz: yeah, that's a good idea..
[20:15:22] <anonimasu> robin_sz: or maybe I can zoom more and figure out what components they use ;)
[20:15:37] <anonimasu> just kidding
[20:16:08] <robin_sz> its not exactly difficult to brew something up on your own ... we built one for the CNC laser project
[20:16:21] <robin_sz> ours was a bit OTT though
[20:16:27] <anonimasu> ott?
[20:16:31] <robin_sz> over the top
[20:16:33] <robin_sz> excessive
[20:16:39] <anonimasu> ah
[20:16:59] <anonimasu> I could cook one togther with enough time..
[20:17:10] <robin_sz> basically, you make an oscilator
[20:17:22] <robin_sz> RC oscillator froma TTL invertor?
[20:17:44] <robin_sz> connect the ring sensor to the input ...
[20:18:00] <robin_sz> as it goes nearer/further from sheet, the frequency changes
[20:18:18] <robin_sz> convert freq to voltage through some means, job done.
[20:19:44] <anonimasu> I think there are ttl chips that do it directly
[20:21:54] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[20:22:34] <anonimasu> ah well, at 99$ I can afford to buy one, time spent building one costs more then buying the damn thing..
[20:22:50] <alex_joni> that's the spirit
[20:23:08] <anonimasu> alex_joni: well, it's true, normally I'd look more at it..
[20:23:30] <anonimasu> I've got about 2 months with 6 hours of overtime a day.. comming up now
[20:23:49] <anonimasu> I dont have time :)
[20:23:58] <alex_joni> who does?
[20:24:06] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:31:07] <tomp> it looks like that torch height control would work with the gates of an h bridge instead of 2 relays
[20:33:52] <lerman> cradek: are you around?
[20:36:06] <cradek> lerman: I thought you had that problem before, and found it had something to do with your rgb.txt
[20:36:32] <lerman> seems familiar, but I don't remember the cause or solution.
[20:37:01] <cradek> using vnc or something else unusual?
[20:37:09] <anonimasu> robin_sz: what's inside the thc ring?
[20:37:19] <lerman> I'm trying to run over vnc. It used to run. Oh well -- I'll go upstairs to that computer and see if it runs there.
[20:37:22] <lerman> bbl
[20:37:24] <alex_joni> anonimasu: small people looking at the material
[20:37:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: heh..
[20:37:38] <cradek> I bet your vnc has bitrotted
[20:37:41] <anonimasu> seriously..
[20:37:47] <anonimasu> I'll give you a pic..
[20:38:19] <anonimasu> http://www.rutex.com/pdf/R982.pdf
[20:38:46] <anonimasu> or is that between the shield and the sensor?
[20:38:52] <cradek> lerman: lots of similar reports on google
[20:46:37] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[20:47:10] <lerman> more that just vnc. My xterm is 640x480 and doesn't seem to want to let me set other preferences.
[20:48:14] <lerman> I believe I rebooted since the last time I ran emc (power failure).
[20:48:58] <lerman> for the heck of it, I'm rebooting again.
[20:50:18] <lerman> bbl
[20:50:50] <SWPadnos> DST fix?
[20:51:04] <SWPadnos> (not that it should matter, but what the heck)
[20:54:24] <lerman> rebooting solved the problem (I can now run emc).
[20:55:24] <cradek> hmm, that's always nice
[20:55:31] <alex_joni> cradek: nice?
[20:55:43] <cradek> rebooting to fix random problems
[20:55:56] <alex_joni> well.. running emc is nice.. but rebooting to fix stuff.. is .. ^&^*&^*^*#
[20:56:40] <skunkworks> gosh - that sounded like a microsoft product.. ;)
[20:58:13] <SWPadnos> oh man - I am a very happy camper right now
[20:58:13] <cradek> lerman: that file also does not load for me here, I just tried it
[20:58:17] <SWPadnos> even though I'm not camping
[20:58:54] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: there is a MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE too
[20:59:38] <SWPadnos> some (free) update to Altium fixed import of very old Protel files - I can now directly import all my old designs
[20:59:40] <SWPadnos> woohoo!
[20:59:52] <skunkworks> Nice. :)
[21:00:11] <SWPadnos> yeah. I didn't even see it in the changelogs, but I tried loading a file today, and it worked :)
[21:00:30] <SWPadnos> a file from 2001
[21:00:37] <alex_joni> that's an old one?
[21:00:55] <SWPadnos> it's the oldest of mine, in my current consulting business ;)
[21:01:14] <SWPadnos> the software predates Protel 99SE though, it's from Advanced PCB 2.75 or so
[21:01:19] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:01:21] <SWPadnos> see ya
[21:09:50] <anonimasu> alex_joni: awake?
[21:10:33] <alex_joni> some say I am
[21:10:38] <alex_joni> I'm not so sure though
[21:10:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waits for the red pill
[21:11:39] <anonimasu> do commerical oxyfuel machine pierce?
[21:11:53] <anonimasu> and if so, does it kill the torch?
[21:12:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: they usually do some fancy dance before the pierce
[21:12:32] <alex_joni> helix move around the spot to heat the material up
[21:12:45] <alex_joni> then jumping up and down during pierce
[21:13:03] <tomp> is there temperature feedback?
[21:13:14] <alex_joni> tomp: not on the ones I saw
[21:13:26] <alex_joni> tomp: just preprogrammed.. based on material &thickness I guess
[21:13:50] <tomp> i like 'fancy dance' :)
[21:13:54] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ok
[21:14:15] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I guess the fancy dance isnt that essential if not cutting very thick..
[21:14:38] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I pierced 20mm manually in less then 0.5 sec with a bit of preheat..
[21:14:52] <robin_sz> anonimasu, the ring is just .. a ring
[21:15:05] <alex_joni> anonimasu: yeah.. it's up to 30-50mm for piercing
[21:15:11] <robin_sz> anonimasu, its noting more than a capacative plate ...
[21:15:24] <anonimasu> yeah but the resistor in the drawing?
[21:15:34] <robin_sz> what drawing?
[21:15:37] <anonimasu> the rutex pdf..
[21:15:39] <alex_joni> although I've seen thicker getting pierced.. but that usually kills the torch slowly
[21:15:47] <anonimasu> alex_joni: yeah figures
[21:16:01] <robin_sz> pdf?
[21:16:09] <tomp> the rutex pdf resistor? unit, 2 relays , motor...
[21:16:11] <anonimasu> I'm just going to add a spray cap to it to keep molten metal from flying all around..
[21:16:27] <anonimasu> the resistor in the part with the ring..
[21:17:12] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did you read my question about piercing too?
[21:17:35] <tomp> ahh, looks like from the shielding to the ring frame
[21:17:46] <anonimasu> ah ok
[21:18:01] <tomp> i was looking at the 'schematic'
[21:18:06] <anonimasu> that's to avoid the shielding from being detected?
[21:18:06] <anonimasu> right?
[21:18:36] <robin_sz> anonimasu, the resistor is not so critical .. it would work OK without one I suspect
[21:18:50] <anonimasu> robin_sz: just making sure, that I can just order the kit and build the ring..
[21:18:55] <robin_sz> as for piercing ...
[21:19:07] <robin_sz> I personally wouldnt recommend it
[21:19:47] <tomp> anonimasu: the us rutex dealer is tom ???? nice guy, should be able to help ( oh you in the states? )
[21:19:57] <anonimasu> no
[21:20:02] <anonimasu> tomp: I'd had all stuff already..
[21:20:03] <anonimasu> if I were
[21:20:35] <robin_sz> anonimasu, avoid piercings if you can
[21:21:05] <anonimasu> hm ok
[21:21:12] <robin_sz> ears are OK I guess ...
[21:21:19] <anonimasu> ears?
[21:21:31] <robin_sz> but noses, lips, genitalia etc are not attractive
[21:21:41] <anonimasu> ah
[21:21:46] <anonimasu> heh
[21:21:52] <anonimasu> robin_sz: piercing workpices ;)
[21:21:57] <robin_sz> oh THAT ;)
[21:22:07] <anonimasu> :D
[21:22:22] <alex_joni> pierced workpieces aren't attractive either
[21:22:47] <robin_sz> like alex said, on thin sheet, like 6mm its easy, lower, wait, pierce , wait, cut.
[21:23:33] <anonimasu> robin_sz: so how do you do it? always cut from a edge..
[21:23:34] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you can't always do that
[21:23:34] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I know
[21:23:34] <alex_joni> e.g. cut out some circles from a part
[21:23:34] <anonimasu> alex_joni: that's why im asking :)
[21:23:39] <robin_sz> on 20mm its more tricky .. circular preheat path, then raise to a safe height ... begin lowerign at a feed rate ...
[21:23:42] <robin_sz> all sorts of strategies
[21:24:13] <robin_sz> anonimasu, this is part of the start of the story where me and EMC fell out :)
[21:24:19] <anonimasu> sheetcam will do that..
[21:24:28] <alex_joni> well.. now at least
[21:24:29] <robin_sz> IMHO it shouldnt
[21:24:31] <anonimasu> not circular preheat..
[21:24:42] <anonimasu> I guess I could do that as a macro..
[21:24:44] <anonimasu> somehow..
[21:24:48] <robin_sz> exactly
[21:24:59] <robin_sz> IMHO it should be something like :
[21:25:32] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: chris says it's usefull to write useful
[21:25:32] <robin_sz> Mxx P 22.0
[21:25:42] <anonimasu> that's hard to do :)
[21:25:45] <anonimasu> I think..
[21:25:47] <robin_sz> (set material thickness to 22mm)
[21:25:55] <robin_sz> M3
[21:26:00] <robin_sz> (pierce)
[21:26:11] <robin_sz> G1 xblah y blah
[21:26:21] <anonimasu> alex_joni: can you assign g code a M code?
[21:26:33] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sorry?
[21:26:43] <robin_sz> the "M3" should handle the pierce, including the torch raise, the height set, the circular pre-heat et etc etc
[21:27:03] <robin_sz> but, thats just my opinion :)
[21:27:24] <anonimasu> alex_joni: assign macros "G" functions..
[21:27:44] <alex_joni> anonimasu: not atm
[21:27:54] <alex_joni> although... maybe :)
[21:27:55] <anonimasu> hehe :)
[21:27:59] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, wouldn't the procedure depend on the material, not the machine?
[21:27:59] <robin_sz> in *some* controllers, you can assign a load of stuff to a Mxx macro
[21:28:20] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, it would depend on both material and machine
[21:28:22] <SWPadnos> in which case, a single M3 code wouldn't really be possible
[21:28:32] <anonimasu> alex_joni: acutally I'd be happy to call a file that does the circular pierce..
[21:28:46] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you can call a procedure in emc2
[21:28:50] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, well, are you sure about that?
[21:28:53] <anonimasu> alex_joni: is it in the wiki?
[21:29:04] <tomp> i was thinking the torch height control could provide a way to follow a surface and polish it. (who want a robo-back massage?? )
[21:29:04] <alex_joni> anonimasu: not the pierce
[21:29:08] <alex_joni> but the call-sub
[21:29:19] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, because I can tell you thats how almost every single plasma and oxy fuel control I have ever seen does it
[21:29:30] <anonimasu> alex_joni: oh, I dont need the pierce.. just the stuff to do it..
[21:29:45] <alex_joni> o-words or smthg like that
[21:29:44] <anonimasu> alex_joni: can you call files with parameters like height?
[21:29:54] <anonimasu> or set parameters before you call one?
[21:29:58] <alex_joni> sure
[21:30:03] <anonimasu> robin_sz: and your problem was?
[21:30:15] <anonimasu> though it'll be a bit of a post hack :)
[21:30:25] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, of course you usually have to select a material thickness/type from a database of paremeters pre-set for each material thickness
[21:30:45] <tomp> technology data base
[21:30:53] <robin_sz> anonimasu, its not easily acheivable in emc, no wait, it was nto easiliy acheivabel in emc at the time I tried it
[21:31:10] <robin_sz> tomp, exactly
[21:31:26] <tomp> trying to do that now with edm tables
[21:31:32] <robin_sz> right
[21:31:34] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I guess I'll have it working tomorrow..
[21:32:03] <robin_sz> I tried to hijack the tool table ... using diamter, length etc as params for the piercing ..
[21:32:11] <robin_sz> it soon became a mess
[21:32:15] <anonimasu> heh
[21:32:17] <anonimasu> yeah I can see why
[21:32:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: thanks!
[21:32:51] <alex_joni> anonimasu: np
[21:33:08] <anonimasu> now how to get a subroutine call into my code..
[21:33:10] <robin_sz> anonimasu, this is when I discovered my hatrred for the way emc passed messages :)
[21:33:41] <anonimasu> alex_joni: does g04 do millisecond pauses?
[21:33:47] <robin_sz> anonimasu, its a lot better now though ...loads better
[21:34:17] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I think so
[21:34:18] <anonimasu> one problem with doing piercing like this is getting the delay time right..
[21:34:21] <alex_joni> G4P0.1
[21:34:41] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:34:49] <robin_sz> better slightly too long than too short :)
[21:34:51] <anonimasu> I figured I'd do a quarter arc.. then pause for 0.1s, and another one..
[21:35:07] <tomp> feedback from an ir thermometer gun strapped to head, reading surface temp, fed into hal?
[21:35:10] <anonimasu> mayber smaller ones..
[21:35:15] <anonimasu> tomp: let's not go there ;)
[21:35:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: just use a slower feed
[21:35:27] <anonimasu> I have PLC>hal stuff..
[21:35:27] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:35:32] <anonimasu> alex_joni: hm I guess I can calc feed and timing..
[21:35:41] <robin_sz> straight delays are fine ...
[21:35:51] <robin_sz> it just needs experience to determine the correct delays
[21:36:06] <anonimasu> im not sure I need circular preheat.
[21:36:13] <anonimasu> not at what im cutting :)
[21:36:20] <robin_sz> 10mm?
[21:36:27] <anonimasu> 20mm
[21:36:34] <robin_sz> 20mm .. borderline
[21:36:40] <anonimasu> I'll be doing 40mm later..
[21:36:49] <robin_sz> err, fun!
[21:36:51] <anonimasu> but I can avoid piercing..
[21:37:07] <anonimasu> hm, the nozzle is from 15-300
[21:37:21] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I did 80
[21:37:32] <robin_sz> alex_joni, stand well back!
[21:37:42] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:38:44] <anonimasu> here's the spec..
[21:39:00] <anonimasu> 300mm at 100-70mm/min
[21:39:20] <robin_sz> standard ...
[21:39:27] <skunkworksemc> cradek: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/stepper_inch.ini
[21:39:42] <robin_sz> I've seen photos of thicker than that being cut with a "standard" torch ...
[21:40:01] <anonimasu> yep
[21:40:06] <anonimasu> still that's not a bad speed..
[21:40:09] <robin_sz> true
[21:40:21] <robin_sz> and what speed in 10mm?
[21:40:25] <anonimasu> im not concerned about speed, if I can keep the machine automated..
[21:40:38] <anonimasu> 680-600mm/min
[21:40:49] <robin_sz> bout the same as my laser then
[21:40:50] <anonimasu> that's for 10-15..
[21:41:17] <anonimasu> dont compare apples and pears.
[21:41:33] <robin_sz> shrug
[21:41:38] <alex_joni> apples and rotted pears
[21:41:41] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:41:43] <alex_joni> :P
[21:41:58] <robin_sz> still pretty impressive for fairly crude technology
[21:42:00] <anonimasu> though if we talk about the $ put into it..
[21:42:01] <anonimasu> :D
[21:42:08] <robin_sz> exactly
[21:42:19] <robin_sz> what tolerance you reckon you get?
[21:42:23] <robin_sz> +- ??
[21:42:27] <robin_sz> .5mm?
[21:42:27] <anonimasu> +/- ?
[21:42:29] <anonimasu> dunno
[21:42:38] <anonimasu> the parts I've made several off are identical..
[21:42:42] <robin_sz> 1mm?
[21:42:47] <robin_sz> right .. good enough then
[21:42:53] <anonimasu> I didnt use a caliper though but when I lay them on top of eachother they match
[21:43:00] <anonimasu> and with the drawing too.
[21:43:05] <anonimasu> good enough :)
[21:43:11] <anonimasu> we used to cut stuff by hand before
[21:43:14] <robin_sz> so way better than sending it out to be done then?
[21:43:27] <robin_sz> as in cheaper, quicker
[21:43:53] <anonimasu> I dont know..
[21:43:55] <anonimasu> probably
[21:44:23] <alex_joni> faster definately
[21:44:37] <alex_joni> at least you know tha machine isn't booked
[21:44:45] <anonimasu> also, it's a work issue..
[21:45:06] <anonimasu> the welder at work has better things to do then cut out 40 of something and 40 or something other
[21:46:12] <alex_joni> like play spider solitaire
[21:46:16] <anonimasu> heh like weld stuff
[21:46:41] <anonimasu> or well cut one off stuff..
[22:01:00] <anonimasu> is anyone awake with a axis working?
[22:01:51] <alex_joni> as in XYZ_A_ ?
[22:02:06] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:02:10] <anonimasu> as in the gui..
[22:03:31] <alex_joni> I have one around
[22:03:39] <anonimasu> now for the fun stuff how to make a full arc..
[22:03:40] <alex_joni> wot's the question
[22:03:58] <anonimasu> I dont know I and J :/
[22:04:11] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I need someone that can try this if it works..
[22:04:20] <anonimasu> /is legal g-code
[22:04:54] <SWPadnos> "/" is not legal G-code
[22:05:11] <anonimasu> heh.
[22:06:38] <SWPadnos> it is legal, however, at the beginning of a lilne of legal G-code, and indicates that the line (block) is to be ignored, if the "optional block delete switch" is active
[22:06:45] <SWPadnos> s/lilne/line/
[22:07:00] <anonimasu> yeah.. I know
[22:07:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:07:06] <anonimasu> but that werent what I were wondering about
[22:07:21] <SWPadnos> I'm still waiting on what to try or inspect ...
[22:07:34] <SWPadnos> one thing to note: I and J are always relative to the current position
[22:07:34] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I need to make a arc first :/
[22:07:38] <anonimasu> that's what I want..
[22:07:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni gave up waiting
[22:07:53] <alex_joni> :-P
[22:08:01] <SWPadnos> do you have to use IJ, or is R usable?
[22:08:19] <anonimasu> I can use either, as long as it's from where I'm at
[22:08:24] <SWPadnos> it is
[22:08:39] <anonimasu> but I need to specify my coordinates right?
[22:08:51] <SWPadnos> of course, or EMC doesn't know where to go to
[22:09:05] <anonimasu> that's harder then..
[22:09:06] <alex_joni> anonimasu: the start is where you are.. you specify the end, and either radius or center
[22:09:45] <anonimasu> so if I do "g01 x-10" I can do "g02 r10" ;)
[22:09:46] <anonimasu> =
[22:09:47] <anonimasu> ?
[22:10:12] <SWPadnos> no, because there's no endpoint
[22:10:22] <SWPadnos> that's like G1 <nothing>
[22:11:05] <anonimasu> hm, beats me how to do a circle wherever you are at..
[22:11:16] <SWPadnos> a full circle, or parts of a circle
[22:11:20] <anonimasu> maybe I should just go to incremental and wiggle around a bit..
[22:11:24] <rayh> Tell me where you are?
[22:11:30] <SWPadnos> sweden ;)
[22:11:32] <anonimasu> i can be anywhere ;)
[22:11:39] <anonimasu> that's the problem with the subroutine..
[22:11:42] <rayh> yea right always a smart ass around.
[22:12:02] <anonimasu> as for location im in sweden..
[22:12:04] <SWPadnos> I think an IJk arc can do full circle, you just respecify the current point as the endpoint
[22:12:03] <rayh> you are trying to make a circle in a subroutine.
[22:12:35] <anonimasu> that's right
[22:13:26] <SWPadnos> I'd give the subroutine the center and radius of the circle
[22:13:37] <SWPadnos> #1=x #2=y #3=R
[22:13:52] <SWPadnos> the subroutine is then something like this:
[22:14:03] <rayh> I and j can cause a full circle if you use current position for endpoint.
[22:14:16] <SWPadnos> G1 X[#1-#2] Y#2
[22:14:37] <SWPadnos> G2 X[#1-#3] J#3
[22:14:41] <SWPadnos> oops - typo on the first line
[22:14:43] <SWPadnos> G1 X[#1-#3] Y#2
[22:14:52] <SWPadnos> G2 X[#1-#3] J#3
[22:14:52] <anonimasu> I guess I can make the post do that..
[22:14:54] <SWPadnos> gah
[22:14:57] <SWPadnos> G1 X[#1-#3] Y#2
[22:15:03] <SWPadnos> G2 X[#1-#3] I#3
[22:15:11] <SWPadnos> that should be all you need
[22:15:17] <unter1> I think this conversation will definitely make it into the bash.org top 200 in no time
[22:15:28] <lerman> cradek: are you here?
[22:15:39] <SWPadnos> it moves to X-R,Y does a circle back to the same spot, and uses R as the center offset ofthe circle
[22:16:08] <lerman> cradek: I have a fix. :-)
[22:16:27] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/392544
[22:16:49] <anonimasu> ok
[22:17:17] <alex_joni> unter1: which one?
[22:17:34] <unter1> gcode one
[22:18:15] <SWPadnos> very slightly more readable, IMO: http://pastebin.ca/392549
[22:18:17] <anonimasu> hm, now lets see..
[22:18:44] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:21:46] <robin_sz> I always fancied doing it directly from an M3 ...
[22:22:30] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, you can always hack that into the interpreter yourself.
[22:22:37] <robin_sz> you could code it in a HAL thing, but, apparently, HAL can't do motion
[22:22:55] <cradek> lerman: cool, what was it?
[22:23:04] <robin_sz> anonimasu, well, I ended up using Mach2 :(
[22:23:35] <anonimasu> the only thing left is to calc the feedrate based on the delay..
[22:23:40] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, HAL does all motion, it's just a question of where the commands come from ;)
[22:23:50] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, ah, ok
[22:23:52] <lerman> The first time I hit a DO, I add the o-word to the symbol table (of o-words). When I loop back, I shouldn't add it again.
[22:24:30] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, I think the problem was with the interpreter not knowingthta the position had changed
[22:25:02] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, sure - that's one problem. there are ways around it, but they're not very easy to use
[22:25:06] <cradek> lerman: aha
[22:25:13] <SWPadnos> recall the discussion about "weaving" some time ago
[22:25:14] <CIA-6> 03lerman 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_o_word.cc:
[22:25:14] <CIA-6> Add an o-word to the symbol table on ONLY THE FIRST time it is hit; not each
[22:25:14] <CIA-6> time through the loop.
[22:25:32] <skunkworks> cradek: did you see my ini file?
[22:25:35] <anonimasu> hm, it'd be nice if you could just call up a file as macero with a parameter..
[22:25:42] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, the easy way would be for the M3 thing to inject G1 xxxx intot the interpreter directly
[22:25:55] <lerman> The trick to debugging this stuff is to turn on debugging. It took me a while to igure out that I had put that stuff into the .ini file.
[22:25:56] <anonimasu> but that's probably doable..
[22:25:56] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, so long as it was careful not to inject an M3 it should be fine :)
[22:25:57] <cradek> lerman: do you want to let him know it's fixed, or do you want me to?
[22:26:11] <cradek> lerman: thanks for fixing it
[22:26:30] <cradek> skunkworks: not yet, I'm away from all my emc machines now
[22:26:33] <lerman> You can let him know (please). But it now gives an error about starting and ending radii being different.
[22:26:58] <skunkworks> cradek: no problem
[22:27:01] <robin_sz> anonimasu, wait until you try it with Plasma ... much trickier
[22:27:06] <lerman> It goes with the job description... Fixes all bugs in code that he wrote.
[22:27:09] <skunkworks> I will probably be gone until later
[22:27:41] <cradek> lerman: I won't tell him it's ok yet then :-/
[22:27:45] <lerman> I've got to head off to class in a little while. I'm just glad I got it fixed before I left for class.
[22:27:51] <cradek> yes thank you
[22:28:06] <cradek> lerman: I'll try to figure out the arc thing (since it runs in 2.1)
[22:28:21] <lerman> It's probably a user error.
[22:28:36] <anonimasu> robin_sz: what?
[22:28:43] <lerman> ooops. Did you say that the error doesn't occur in 2.1?
[22:28:45] <robin_sz> piercing
[22:28:46] <cradek> lerman: right
[22:29:05] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, it's not like it's a problem still
[22:29:31] <lerman> It could still be my error, then. Code that uses parameters could be broken by me.
[22:29:32] <robin_sz> anonimasu, piercing with plasma is tricker, because you have to wait for a "arc detected" before you start the timer, if it fials, then retract the head
[22:29:49] <robin_sz> i think that would still be a problem
[22:29:57] <cradek> lerman: maybe I can determine that if so
[22:30:39] <anonimasu> robin_sz: here's how I'd do it, I'd throw a command to my plc to strike a arc.. and have it pause emc, until there's an arc..
[22:31:06] <robin_sz> ok sofar
[22:31:43] <robin_sz> lets say you didnt get an arc ...
[22:31:58] <robin_sz> within hte 5seconds allowed
[22:32:07] <robin_sz> now what?
[22:32:29] <anonimasu> as I can do both hal and nml from it I can back up to the line before the pierce and retry it..
[22:32:42] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:32:47] <SWPadnos> use optional block delete on the rest of the "macro", and the PLC sets the optional block delete output on error
[22:33:15] <robin_sz> this is where 2.5d systems meet 3d systems
[22:33:29] <anonimasu> robin_sz: so tell me where the problem is.. :)
[22:33:42] <rayh> Darn that is a pretty limited subroutine for running circles.
[22:34:35] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder how to time the delays..
[22:34:43] <robin_sz> anonimasu, the desired bhaviour is: raise head to safe height, stop machine, inform operator
[22:35:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, I dont care what the desired behaviour is, I could do either..
[22:35:23] <anonimasu> :)
[22:35:30] <robin_sz> if the operator presse cycle start again .. then try again
[22:35:31] <cradek> skunkworks: maybe try TRAJ_PERIOD of 3000000, every ten servo cycles seems not very often
[22:35:45] <robin_sz> ok, then thats great .. emc has indeed come a long way
[22:36:03] <robin_sz> it was a pita when i tried to do it
[22:36:25] <cradek> also reduce [TASK]CYCLE_TIME to 0.001 (not sure if that's still important but it can't hurt)
[22:36:37] <robin_sz> so, that wonderful .. things have come alonmg a long way
[22:37:00] <anonimasu> sure it'd be a bit of work, but running hal and nml from the plc took a few days of work(about 3 hours once I learned there was python modules for hal and nml) ;)
[22:37:22] <robin_sz> the last time I checked, hal couldnt command things like g0 z 100 to raise the head
[22:37:28] <anonimasu> then 10 minutes for the plc code..
[22:37:40] <alex_joni> robin_sz: hal still can't .. but nml can easily
[22:37:46] <anonimasu> yeah, but you can do mdi via nml ;)
[22:37:47] <alex_joni> and you can hack it in hal too
[22:37:49] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks
[22:37:58] <cradek> skunkworks: don't thank me unless it helps :-)
[22:38:21] <skunkworks> :)
[22:38:24] <anonimasu> :)
[22:38:26] <alex_joni> cradek: what's the dpi stuff in xorg.conf ? to make fonts bigger?
[22:38:28] <cradek> if it doesn't, maybe you can make some scope plots to help debug it
[22:38:30] <robin_sz> right ... and you can fir off any nml message you want from a bit of hal code?
[22:38:32] <anonimasu> hm, im very confused about this..
[22:38:48] <anonimasu> no, from the stuff that talks to my plc..
[22:38:57] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, no, you fire off NML code from a python script
[22:38:59] <anonimasu> but I guess you could build a python program that takes a nml input..
[22:39:04] <anonimasu> err hal..
[22:39:08] <robin_sz> right ...
[22:39:08] <anonimasu> and fires off a nml message..
[22:39:15] <anonimasu> in 5 lines :)
[22:39:17] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't know about those interactions, but setting everything to 75 seems to help legacy programs
[22:39:20] <robin_sz> so hal calls a python script,
[22:39:25] <anonimasu> no
[22:39:26] <robin_sz> python script fies off nml ...
[22:39:32] <anonimasu> python script is running, and connected to hal..
[22:39:39] <robin_sz> ok ..
[22:39:46] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, the scripting available in EMC is waaaaay more powerful than in Mach, but integration isn't as good (from a "normal user" point of view)
[22:39:56] <anonimasu> when stuff happens or dont, you fire off the pin..
[22:40:00] <anonimasu> from cl or so..
[22:40:03] <alex_joni> cradek: I meant the actual entry.. is it called DPI ?
[22:40:12] <alex_joni> I know you told me this once..
[22:40:23] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, right ...
[22:40:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has issues with a large screens, and small fonts
[22:40:27] <cradek> I think you have to specify the screen dimensions, and it calculates the dpi
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> I wonder if this works at all..
[22:40:57] <cradek> in gnome at least, you can change all the truetype sizes under preferences/font/advanced or whatever it is
[22:41:12] <cradek> try that first...
[22:41:25] <SWPadnos> some drivers have a DPI setting (NVidia is one of them, don't know about nv)
[22:41:32] <SWPadnos> option "DPI" "200x200"
[22:41:37] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, so, with a bit of gui goodness we are in a winning position then, the core work is done, now its just config tools? right?
[22:41:37] <alex_joni> ah-ha
[22:41:43] <alex_joni> it's set at 96
[22:41:58] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, for the most part, yes - I think so
[22:42:15] <anonimasu> lets see..
[22:42:27] <alex_joni> cradek: thanks, that worked wonders
[22:42:32] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, certianly the vcp stuff looks very promising
[22:42:33] <SWPadnos> there are other options for customization and configuration, which would be more like some commercial controls rather than Mach
[22:42:35] <anonimasu> I'd agree
[22:42:35] <cradek> which?
[22:42:46] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, its good to know the scriptign side is equally powerful
[22:43:08] <alex_joni> cradek: changing the number under advanced
[22:43:13] <anonimasu> to that it's tools that missing :)
[22:43:13] <cradek> ah
[22:43:23] <anonimasu> still, I lack much understanding how to do stuff.
[22:43:26] <alex_joni> cradek: hmm.. not for all windows though :(
[22:43:41] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, excellent .. the point is .. it is doable as a config thing rahter than a recompilingthing, so thats a big step forward
[22:44:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:44:20] <anonimasu> http://www.pastebin.ca/392588
[22:44:54] <anonimasu> missed a \n at the subroutine
[22:45:07] <SWPadnos> the interfaces that Axis uses to communicate with emc are available to other python scripts, including NML, interpreter, and HAL interfaces
[22:45:09] <cradek> bbl
[22:46:13] <SWPadnos> though that's userspace, not RT (like any stupid VB stuff would be)
[22:46:32] <jepler> new realtime parts can also be written with a minimum of fuss
[22:46:36] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:46:40] <anonimasu> jepler: what language?
[22:46:46] <alex_joni> anonimasu: comp
[22:46:48] <SWPadnos> though you do need to compile those
[22:46:57] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what?
[22:46:57] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, so, how far away are we from being able to have gui tool that lets you drag and drop widgets onto a canvas, save the config and then run an axis-like display with those widgets?
[22:47:13] <alex_joni> anonimasu: similar to C, but you only write a couple of lines for a module
[22:47:13] <jepler> robin_sz: as soon as you write it
[22:47:12] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, dunno - how are you coming along on the GUI? ;)
[22:47:18] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ok
[22:47:31] <anonimasu> alex_joni: can you look at that file?
[22:47:40] <jepler> anonimasu: 'comp' is a preprocessor that helps you write HAL realtime modules. It is basically C with extra declarations at the start. documentation: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/hal/comp/
[22:48:02] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, so the rest of it is all there, the running from an XML config?
[22:48:04] <anonimasu> jepler: it looks like im being force fed with emc-documentation today and it's good im learning lots of new stuff :D
[22:48:26] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, no, is XML somehow easier than plain text?
[22:48:36] <SWPadnos> (/troll)
[22:49:01] <jepler> robin_sz: pyvcp uses xml to store the layout of the control panel, but right now you have to hand-code it
[22:49:12] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, not really, I dont really care what format the config is in, xml would be a logical choice, but it doenst matter so long as it works
[22:49:25] <jepler> it positions things based on "pack" and "grid", which are very different from a drag&drop user interface editor
[22:49:31] <robin_sz> jepler, thats where i thought the xml came in ...
[22:49:45] <robin_sz> so pyvcp and axis use different config formats?
[22:49:51] <SWPadnos> right now the config file is a directory, with files in several formats (unfortnately)
[22:49:58] <robin_sz> right
[22:49:59] <anonimasu> hm pyvcp is the panel stuff that runs besides axis..
[22:50:06] <SWPadnos> axis doesn't have a config format, other than some ini settings
[22:50:40] <jepler> but you can hang a pyvcp panel on the side of the axis window: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01167748606/lathe_sim_pyvcp.png
[22:50:57] <robin_sz> so the position of buttons and widgets in axis is determined by?
[22:51:12] <jepler> the layout of the axis window is fixed, and will remain so.
[22:51:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: jepler and cradek
[22:51:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:52:20] <robin_sz> riiiiiiight.
[22:53:02] <robin_sz> and pyvcp and axis use the same widgets?
[22:53:09] <SWPadnos> can you change the Mach3 screen layout, or just create new layouts that look largely similar?
[22:53:29] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, create any one you want
[22:53:48] <robin_sz> the core code will crash in just the same way though
[22:53:49] <SWPadnos> I know you can create any one you want, I'm asking if you can *change* the one(s) you get with Mach
[22:53:53] <robin_sz> yes
[22:53:57] <SWPadnos> ok - thanks
[22:54:17] <alex_joni> robin_sz: not the same widgets
[22:54:22] <robin_sz> ahhm ok
[22:54:22] <SWPadnos> is that truly important, as a separate function from making yuor own layouts?
[22:54:23] <robin_sz> thnaks
[22:54:29] <alex_joni> but there are plenty already for pyvcp
[22:54:41] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, is what truly important?
[22:55:23] <SWPadnos> is the ability to change the actual file they provide you with important, or is the important part that you can create new screen files?
[22:55:40] <robin_sz> both
[22:55:41] <unter1> I'm thinking that with enough man-hours, you could use the Mach screens on emc. I just say this for the amusement value
[22:55:53] <SWPadnos> unter1, go home :)
[22:55:53] <jepler> if someone submits a patch that turns the AXIS backplot and program listing into pyvcp widgets, it would be accepted. but it is a waste of my time to give the user the choice of where to put the "clear backplot" toolbar button.
[22:56:36] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, say you want to have a screen almost exactly liek the one you have now, but say, less on control, or with an extra control .. you should be able to start with the standard one and modify it ... or build from scratch ..
[22:57:02] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:57:22] <SWPadnos> you can do the adding with axis right now, but no moving or deleting of controls
[22:57:30] <robin_sz> jepler, sure, but say anonimasu wants a "piercing wobble diameter" control instead of spindle overide?
[22:57:44] <jepler> robin_sz: he can put it on the right-hand pyvcp
[22:57:46] <anonimasu> that'd go into the pyvcp pane..
[22:57:51] <SWPadnos> he can add one with pyvcp, and live with the fact that spindle override is still there
[22:57:58] <jepler> robin_sz: if he doesn't connect the 'spindle-speed-override' pin, the spindle override slider will disappear
[22:57:58] <anonimasu> or I could just change axis to that..
[22:58:00] <robin_sz> jepler, and to get rid of the spindle control?
[22:58:09] <anonimasu> remove the control in axis..
[22:58:09] <robin_sz> jepler, ahh, right
[22:58:14] <jepler> robin_sz: most of the stuff on the left-hand side disappears when the associated hal pin is unconnected
[22:58:18] <robin_sz> great
[22:58:25] <anonimasu> jepler: really?
[22:58:25] <anonimasu> that's nice..
[22:58:32] <robin_sz> yeah, neat
[22:58:34] <jepler> anonimasu: yes, that was a new feature in emc 2.1
[22:58:38] <SWPadnos> heh - auto-cleaning UI ...
[22:58:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I think you are too concerned about customization..
[22:58:49] <anonimasu> robin_sz: integrators are different from end users anyway..
[22:59:03] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, not really - that is one of the big things people tout for Mach
[22:59:15] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I'm not that concerned with ever changing my ui if it does what I want it to..
[22:59:19] <jepler> SWPadnos: x86_64 edgy download completed, I'll see if I can figure out your edgy-sim compile problems
[22:59:28] <robin_sz> shrug, customisation is the most important thing,
[22:59:38] <unter1> people do seem to love the fact they can make their own front panel on Mach
[22:59:40] <anonimasu> robin_sz: so you mean you change your mach setup once you have a working system?
[23:00:23] <anonimasu> I care about making parts..
[23:00:46] <robin_sz> anonimasu, well, mach doesnt actually work well enough to be useable for me .. but apart from that ...
[23:01:36] <robin_sz> some people are happy enough to have "spindle on" meaning plasma on, other integrators would not be
[23:01:42] <anonimasu> robin_sz: so, tell me about this customization stuff.. do you change your mach frontend just for kicks all the time?
[23:01:53] <robin_sz> no
[23:01:57] <robin_sz> i dont use mach
[23:02:03] <anonimasu> no but if you were..
[23:02:08] <robin_sz> I have no working isntallation of mach
[23:02:23] <robin_sz> I have noi intenttion of installing it ever again
[23:02:59] <robin_sz> but ... on a cnc control, as an integrator
[23:03:19] <robin_sz> I would expect to be able to configure the display in some way
[23:03:47] <robin_sz> for example, I would not expect to ship a mill with a "torch height" button on the display
[23:04:02] <robin_sz> neither would I expect to ship a plasma with a "coolant on" button
[23:04:06] <robin_sz> thats all.
[23:04:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well you could do either..
[23:04:25] <anonimasu> removing the widget in axis isnt that hard either..
[23:04:39] <anonimasu> but as they dissapear automagically it's even better..
[23:04:42] <robin_sz> quite
[23:05:09] <anonimasu> you can even change the text on the spindle speed to height and connect it to another pin..
[23:05:20] <jepler> an integrator is also in the position to write a new GUI from scratch, or edit any of the existing GUIs
[23:05:28] <anonimasu> jepler: yep
[23:06:29] <robin_sz> it would be nice if the integrator edited a config for the GUI, like in pyvcp, rather than the GUI itself, so was able to keep up to date with new releases without having to start from sctratch
[23:06:42] <jepler> the integrator had better be smarter than "click and drool" -- otherwise I'd be scared to use his machine
[23:06:53] <anonimasu> jepler: I agree wholeheartedly
[23:07:12] <jepler> since these files are just source code, CVS will do a lot to help the integrator get updates and make sure they don't stomp on the same parts of the source as his customizations
[23:07:28] <anonimasu> there's nothing to say that it has to be dead esay.. to be a integrator.
[23:07:35] <robin_sz> yeah,
[23:08:03] <jepler> not that I would turn down more "click and drool" stuff, because most of our users seem to be end-users, not integrators -- but I also don't have the spare time to write them, nor the vision for how they should work
[23:08:12] <robin_sz> noted
[23:08:42] <anonimasu> I guess in the end it's how good the parts end up now how it looks while making them and the cost/functionality
[23:08:53] <anonimasu> users/integrators dont like hearing that stuff isnt possible.
[23:08:54] <robin_sz> dont get me wrong ... emc has come along light-years recently ...
[23:09:25] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, something that dosent make parts is scrap, nice gui or no gui.. :)
[23:09:43] <robin_sz> not that long ago, most of this stuff was on the "never happen" list ...
[23:09:51] <robin_sz> and, here it is already
[23:11:08] <robin_sz> I wouldnt like to bet on what we will have in 12 months time ...
[23:15:10] <alex_joni> robin_sz: :)
[23:15:47] <robin_sz> actually, i really shoudl investigate pyvcp more when I get a moment
[23:15:59] <SWPLinux> yeah - stop wasting time on IRC ;)
[23:16:03] <robin_sz> heh
[23:16:06] <robin_sz> its relaxing :)
[23:16:15] <jepler> you'll find that it's not as well-documented as you might like :-P
[23:16:16] <robin_sz> while Im doing this, I aint worrying about work
[23:16:30] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:16:40] <robin_sz> sad, but true
[23:18:05] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I know exactly how you feel
[23:18:26] <alex_joni> although I guess I still try to avoid that much responsability throughout the day :)
[23:18:35] <tomp> what was 'sim.var' 's intended use?
[23:18:40] <robin_sz> lucky you :)
[23:18:44] <tomp> (or any .var )
[23:18:50] <alex_joni> tomp: hold variables
[23:19:01] <robin_sz> alex_joni, the great thing about having your own business is you can work the hours you want ....
[23:19:02] <tomp> and how did we access those variables?
[23:19:03] <alex_joni> some interpreter internal variables that need to get remembered
[23:19:10] <alex_joni> #5273
[23:19:13] <robin_sz> alex_joni, the bad news is its 24x7
[23:19:19] <alex_joni> robin_sz: haha
[23:19:32] <alex_joni> well.. I came home at 19:something today
[23:19:36] <tomp> in g code? like G1 X#5273 ?
[23:19:40] <robin_sz> alex_joni, I try hard to do !work int he evenings .. for my sanity
[23:19:59] <anonimasu> :)
[23:19:59] <robin_sz> alex_joni, annoying you lot is a hobby for me :)
[23:20:16] <alex_joni> tomp: yeah, there too
[23:20:17] <robin_sz> hmmm ... speaking of which, where si Jymmmm ?
[23:20:29] <alex_joni> tomp: but there are other uses for that
[23:20:35] <alex_joni> tomp: most are described in the docs
[23:22:30] <tomp> thanks, i wonder if they can be written to by gcode of an m func ( Mxxx Pindex Qvalue )
[23:22:52] <jepler> tomp: no, the .var file is not re-read during execution of a program
[23:23:44] <tomp> could they be written to a hal comp?
[23:26:03] <tomp> i dont need to write to the var file, just random access reads . i can write when not running
[23:52:29] <Jymmmm> ?
[23:57:38] <jepler> tomp: the file is also not updated during the run of a program