#emc | Logs for 2007-03-10

[00:29:48] <skunkworks> So I followed the direction here to make a bootable usb livecd. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[00:30:00] <skunkworks> but I think I don't have anything that will boot usb ;)
[00:41:22] <skunkworks> (using the emc2 live cd)
[01:58:22] <robin_sz> meep
[01:59:13] <robin_sz> q/me awakes after a brief beer and chips induced sleep
[02:07:52] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (4 files): remove odd reuse of a double as a flag
[02:19:57] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: this makes the line after turning off cutter comp correct (putting us back on the right path) but the exit arc case is still (very) wrong.
[02:43:19] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/inifile/ (inifile.cc inifile.hh): Added Find() method for bool.
[03:44:17] <ejholmgren> Whats up sons?
[05:04:31] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[05:17:06] <cradek> ok everyone, we know the image is big, and we don't care about your machine's specs
[05:17:39] <SWPLinux> you dojn't want to hear about my dual Opteron 275 with 4G RAM and dual 1920x1200 LCDs?
[05:17:52] <SWPLinux> or the A64 3500+ with 1G and the 3840x2400 screen?
[05:17:55] <SWPLinux> bummer
[05:18:28] <cradek> no
[05:30:00] <cradek> I cannot see any problem with mixed linear and rotary, either with jogging or with coordinated motion
[05:35:22] <SWPLinux> *cough* comp *cough*
[05:35:50] <cradek> ??
[05:36:47] <cradek> heh I didn't remember the rotating cone was still in there
[05:36:47] <SWPLinux> that was another Ed problem? (some rotary/linear combined move thing)
[05:37:06] <cradek> no, his comp problem was related to relative coordinates, and I fixed it
[05:38:12] <SWPLinux> ah - I wasn't thinking of a specific problem with him regarding comp - it was kind of a bad joke :)
[05:38:54] <cradek> * cradek ducks
[05:53:57] <jmkasunich> mixed linear/rotary has always been confusing, even when it was correct by the spec
[05:54:26] <cradek> yes
[05:54:30] <jmkasunich> s/when it was/now that it is/ ;-)
[05:54:33] <cradek> the different units make it a mess
[05:54:51] <cradek> if you get the numbers right (black art?) it works great
[06:15:38] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: backport fix for exit move off-path
[06:16:31] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: another backport
[07:04:02] <Guest970> hello
[07:15:12] <Guest876> hello
[07:41:23] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[08:06:20] <CIA-6> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/inifile/ (inifile.cc inifile.hh):
[08:06:20] <CIA-6> -Added control over which exceptions are thrown.
[08:06:20] <CIA-6> -Added Find() methods with limit checking.
[08:32:52] <robin_sz> meep
[08:39:06] <alex_joni> dude
[09:10:27] <pier> monin all
[09:11:59] <K`zan> Night all
[10:19:19] <Rugludallur> morning
[11:17:37] <Martin_Lundstrom> Good day everyone
[11:17:51] <Rugludallur> morning Martin
[11:18:02] <Martin_Lundstrom> how is it going?
[11:18:43] <Martin_Lundstrom> did you have any use for my spagetti code?
[11:23:32] <Rugludallur> Martin: i'm rewriting my own config to start with
[11:23:36] <Martin_Lundstrom> If you want I can give you a sumary of the hack
[11:23:38] <Rugludallur> Martin: without the THC
[11:23:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> fair enough
[11:23:57] <Martin_Lundstrom> ?
[11:24:07] <Rugludallur> Martin: I want to try to simplify as much as possible to start with
[11:24:08] <Martin_Lundstrom> Without THC?
[11:24:17] <Rugludallur> Martin: I need to get gantrykins working
[11:24:27] <Rugludallur> Martin: then I will turn my attention to the THC
[11:24:40] <Martin_Lundstrom> Cutting will dificult withou the THC
[11:25:07] <Rugludallur> Martin: I won't cut untill I have THC
[11:25:11] <Martin_Lundstrom> ok, step by step :)
[11:25:56] <Martin_Lundstrom> When ever you want a sumary, drop a line
[11:27:12] <Rugludallur> Martin: great, thanks, im having breakfast right now :D
[11:27:21] <Martin_Lundstrom> bon apetit
[12:22:40] <Rugludallur> jepler: you awake by any chance ?
[12:59:35] <skunkworks> no open wireless near the new house. But a few blocks away there is even a business with totally open wireless - 1mb also ;)
[13:00:01] <skunkworks> I should say - no wireless signal near the house
[13:00:04] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: 18dBi dipole on the roof and you are golden :P
[13:00:13] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:02:00] <skunkworks> you can get 20dBi dishes for under 50 dollars also.
[13:03:19] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: To bad those things take up so much space, the shipping is problematic
[13:21:42] <skunkworks> rugludallar: http://sharperconcepts.zoovy.com/c=Lc8ALJ4OPbKgqgCBxvzXSkXPT/product/YSC-HG2424G
[13:22:02] <skunkworks> bought one of these for someone else - shipping wasn't bad at all.
[13:22:24] <skunkworks> really a nice built 2 piece design
[13:25:07] <skunkworks> mmmm 50 watts of wifi power ;)
[13:25:35] <skunkworks> think the fcc would catch that? :)
[13:25:56] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: nice :D
[13:26:20] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: add on an amp, boost the signal and run it 20km
[13:26:28] <skunkworks> :)
[13:26:58] <skunkworks> even with normal power you could go a few miles
[13:27:20] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: for sure, if both sides are 24dBi you can probably go close to 5m
[13:27:28] <skunkworks> yep
[13:28:01] <Rugludallur> skunkdowkrs: I saw a couple of 29dBi disks for sale the other day,, mmmmmm
[13:28:26] <skunkworks> got to go - have fun :)
[13:28:41] <Rugludallur> l8r
[14:53:16] <DanielFalck> just for reference- I set up my nVidia FX 700 driver last night and Axis works very well in sim mode now
[14:54:26] <DanielFalck> things run very smooth
[15:02:08] <DanielFalck> rayh: good morning
[15:03:30] <rayh> hi dan
[15:03:58] <DanielFalck> how are things up your way?
[15:04:06] <rayh> Good
[15:04:16] <rayh> snow is starting to melt
[15:04:35] <DanielFalck> is business keeping you busy?
[15:04:53] <rayh> wah! More than I can handle
[15:05:35] <DanielFalck> we are testing out Unigraphics NX on Linux at work now
[15:05:46] <rayh> great.
[15:05:50] <DanielFalck> on a real hot 64 bit machine
[15:05:51] <rayh> How's it going?
[15:06:03] <DanielFalck> really well. It's really powerful
[15:06:18] <DanielFalck> we should be able to do the cam demo this next week
[15:06:29] <rayh> Nice.
[15:07:07] <DanielFalck> I think some of the apt360 stuff should apply to NX- using the O/S postprocessor is possible
[15:07:22] <rayh> really.
[15:07:52] <DanielFalck> So, I've been learning apt
[15:08:02] <DanielFalck> and a lot more about python
[15:08:02] <rayh> Got a way to post a few images and code and such?
[15:08:07] <DanielFalck> yes
[15:08:12] <DanielFalck> let me get some
[15:08:39] <rayh> I've still got the sharpie note from you about python on the basement wall.
[15:08:47] <DanielFalck> start here:
[15:08:48] <DanielFalck> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?AptProgrammingForEMC
[15:08:51] <rayh> What was that about 99 or so.
[15:08:53] <Guest158> hello can I join your disscution ?
[15:08:56] <DanielFalck> sure
[15:09:00] <rayh> You bet.
[15:09:29] <Guest158> My name is Dumitru Pop, I live in Zalau, Romania.
[15:09:42] <DanielFalck> Hi Dumitru
[15:09:48] <robin_sz> welcome!
[15:09:54] <rayh> Hi guy.
[15:10:31] <robin_sz> Guest158, and you use emc already?
[15:12:32] <alex_joni> Hi Guest158
[15:13:03] <alex_joni> Guest158: I was in Zalau last month :)
[15:13:19] <Guest158> I work on a cnc project at Cluj Napoca Techioncal University
[15:13:36] <DanielFalck> rayh: step over into #cam for just a bit, if you can
[15:14:09] <alex_joni> Guest158: that's nice to hear
[15:14:18] <Guest158> I wnat to make some adaptive feed control using M51/M52
[15:14:24] <rayh> sure.
[15:14:33] <alex_joni> well.. it's been changed .. it's not M51/M52 anymore
[15:15:08] <robin_sz> when you say "adaptive" you mean monitoring spindle load or soem such thing?
[15:15:08] <alex_joni> sorry.. it was something else before
[15:15:12] <alex_joni> it's M52 now
[15:15:26] <alex_joni> M52 P1 to turn it on, M52 P0 to turn it off
[15:16:08] <Guest158> I want to use pins from parallel port to modify feed and spindle speed in the same time
[15:16:49] <alex_joni> Guest158: what's the signal? PWM ?
[15:17:39] <Guest158> I will take the signal from a dspace 1104 board so it can be PWM
[15:17:58] <robin_sz> alex_joni, is this just providing an external pot for feed control?
[15:18:10] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeah, limited 0..1
[15:18:16] <alex_joni> so you can't go faster than F-rate
[15:18:23] <alex_joni> but you can go slower
[15:18:23] <robin_sz> right
[15:18:31] <robin_sz> same as my bosch
[15:18:40] <alex_joni> M51 is for Spindle speed override
[15:18:58] <alex_joni> but that comes only from a GUI
[15:19:06] <robin_sz> we always run ay "90%" and program all our feeds at 111%
[15:19:27] <alex_joni> robin_sz: the adaptive stuff can be changed dinamically based on process
[15:19:35] <alex_joni> it's been designed and used on EDM
[15:19:38] <robin_sz> right ...
[15:19:53] <robin_sz> I was thinking about chip load on high speed spindles ...
[15:19:56] <alex_joni> that too
[15:20:03] <robin_sz> go as fast as you can to load it to 15hp
[15:20:05] <alex_joni> spindle current
[15:20:18] <alex_joni> or RPM or whatever you can measure
[15:21:02] <robin_sz> can be tricky ...
[15:21:12] <alex_joni> Guest158: there is a small problem for spindle override..
[15:21:18] <Guest158> Is it possible to write a hal file to implement this ?
[15:21:36] <robin_sz> as the rotational mass of the spindle means load can go up a long time befoe it shows on the rpm
[15:21:50] <alex_joni> you can only change spindle override from a GUI so far (moving a slider) or from halui by linking an encoder (MPG) to a pin
[15:21:55] <alex_joni> but it's not realtime..
[15:22:17] <alex_joni> depending what you need, you might have issues with speed
[15:22:21] <robin_sz> its 'close to' realtime though ... halui isnt that laggy
[15:22:44] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeah, for most stuff it might be enough (I imagine the spindle has quite a bit of inertia too)
[15:22:50] <robin_sz> exactly
[15:23:02] <alex_joni> Guest158: I sent you a private message.. (it should appear in another window)
[15:23:18] <alex_joni> Guest158: maybe we can talk this over in romanian a bit faster :P
[15:23:33] <Guest158> ok
[15:25:22] <rayh> IMO spindle current or analog out from a good spindle drive would be a lot more sensitive than rpm.
[15:26:20] <SWPadnos> rayh, that kind of output should be easy to use, if you have an A/D converter
[15:26:27] <SWPadnos> in RT even
[15:26:53] <rayh> That would be ideal.
[15:27:28] <rayh> Although I'm pretty much a believer in computed chipload rather than loading a motor.
[15:27:41] <SWPadnos> just run the analog input into a scale block, maybe a windoe comparator or summer, and straight into the AF input
[15:29:02] <rayh> It would work that way. There would be a knee in the load curve beyond which you start dragging the cutter on the surface rather than cutting material.
[15:29:10] <SWPadnos> oh - a friend and I came up with another interesting technique, which works for servos as well as the spindle:
[15:29:39] <SWPadnos> I think that would be taken care of: use an integrator on the feedback
[15:30:16] <SWPadnos> just like a thermal fuse - if the spike is way too high for a millisecond, or a bit too high for 10 seconds, you shut down
[15:30:36] <alex_joni> Is and Id are those on servos
[15:30:41] <SWPadnos> you can do separate integrators on each axis plus the spindle, and use the min() of all the outputs
[15:34:24] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: short question about cameras
[15:34:34] <SWPadnos> shoot (pun intended ;) )
[15:34:49] <alex_joni> I just installed some nice color CCD's with PAL/NTSC interface
[15:34:58] <alex_joni> but I have some black horizontal lines in the image
[15:35:06] <alex_joni> I think it's because of the poor PSU.. can that be?
[15:35:18] <SWPadnos> they're CCD and not CMOS?
[15:35:33] <alex_joni> CCD
[15:35:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[15:35:52] <SWPadnos> yes, a bad PS can cause some variation, but I wouldn't expect black
[15:35:55] <alex_joni> DC 12V
[15:36:08] <alex_joni> they are mostly visible on darker spots of the image
[15:36:10] <SWPadnos> do the black lines remain stationary or are they in random places?
[15:36:19] <alex_joni> 2 lines, half an image apart
[15:36:23] <alex_joni> they sometimes move
[15:36:35] <SWPadnos> that sounds more line a sync problem
[15:36:48] <alex_joni> image is dead stable though
[15:37:13] <alex_joni> I had a big transformer type PSU (12V 2A)
[15:37:25] <SWPadnos> do you get any "flicker" - with other lines getting bright/dark?
[15:37:36] <alex_joni> like the crappy adjustable ones (with 3-4.5-6-7.5-9-12V settings) but bigger
[15:37:41] <SWPadnos> ko
[15:37:43] <SWPadnos> ok
[15:37:48] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: no flicker
[15:38:06] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm netting it's not the PSU then
[15:38:19] <SWPadnos> a bad PS would tend to give you more random problems
[15:38:35] <alex_joni> it feels like it's 50Hz related
[15:38:53] <alex_joni> from the mains
[15:39:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm. flicker in the lights?
[15:39:09] <alex_joni> the first time I tried them (shorter cables) it was ok
[15:39:18] <alex_joni> a bit flicker.. but seldom
[15:39:22] <SWPadnos> try them outside
[15:39:27] <alex_joni> they are outside
[15:39:30] <alex_joni> IP66 :D
[15:39:30] <SWPadnos> oh :)
[15:39:49] <alex_joni> 20-30m of coax (RG6) though
[15:39:53] <SWPadnos> so the scene is illuminated by the sun, not by area lighting?
[15:39:57] <alex_joni> so not much.. and the cable seems relly good
[15:40:02] <alex_joni> right now sun
[15:40:12] <alex_joni> well.. light anyways
[15:40:12] <SWPadnos> ok - that eliminates lighting concerns
[15:40:19] <SWPadnos> ok, the clouds :)
[15:40:26] <alex_joni> they have IR lights, so they work at night too
[15:40:35] <alex_joni> (although not in colour :D)
[15:40:59] <SWPadnos> ok. anything on the camera probably won't cause lighting problems because the camera runs from a DC source
[15:41:22] <alex_joni> right.. but it's not the best PSU as I said
[15:41:23] <SWPadnos> it's generally beat frequencies that cause lighting anomalies
[15:41:31] <alex_joni> had about 16V when no cameras attached
[15:41:36] <alex_joni> about 13V with one
[15:41:49] <SWPadnos> no biggie - there should be a regulator of some kind in the camera as well
[15:42:03] <SWPadnos> what's the input volatge spec?
[15:43:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm. ok - I'm not an expert on driving CCDs - it's an arcane subject like PID tuning :)
[15:43:28] <alex_joni> heh
[15:43:42] <SWPadnos> I'm suspicious that the cameras have dual readouts though, and that you haev a periodic problem
[15:43:43] <alex_joni> I'll try a PC PSU, those have plenty of cojones on 12V
[15:43:53] <SWPadnos> dual readouts would explain the lines being 1/2 frame apart
[15:45:04] <SWPadnos> there may be a problem with the CCD clocks - CCDs generally have something like 4 clock signals that have to be at exactly the right phase (within a few tenths of a ns)
[15:45:19] <SWPadnos> but if you get no smearing, then it's unlikely
[15:45:55] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/7569
[15:46:16] <SWPadnos> oh - those lines aren't black ;)
[15:46:40] <alex_joni> darker
[15:46:43] <SWPadnos> have you tried different monitors?
[15:46:51] <SWPadnos> or is this going to a digitizer?
[15:46:52] <alex_joni> this is a capture card
[15:46:55] <alex_joni> right
[15:46:58] <SWPadnos> ok - check the card settings
[15:47:07] <alex_joni> didn't see any
[15:47:10] <alex_joni> :-)
[15:47:21] <alex_joni> but I have another card
[15:47:40] <SWPadnos> since the camera can output PAL or NTSC, disconnect it from the digitizer and try a standalone monitor
[15:47:51] <SWPadnos> or another card
[15:47:54] <alex_joni> I had some other cameras before, they worked ok
[15:47:59] <SWPadnos> same model or different?
[15:48:04] <alex_joni> but those were BW, and probably CMOS
[15:48:18] <SWPadnos> either way, that looks a lot like a sync problem
[15:48:18] <alex_joni> hmm.. I have 2 cameras now, both the same type
[15:48:25] <SWPadnos> though those usually make one line
[15:48:27] <alex_joni> and the lines on both move synchronously
[15:48:39] <SWPadnos> maybe robin_sz has a suggestion
[15:48:41] <alex_joni> so I still think it's PSu related
[15:48:51] <alex_joni> maybe badly filtered or something
[15:48:54] <SWPadnos> and the lines appear whether you have one camera or two plugged in?
[15:48:59] <alex_joni> yeah
[15:49:03] <SWPadnos> o
[15:49:04] <SWPadnos> ok
[15:49:17] <SWPadnos> I Need coffee - brb
[15:54:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs home
[15:54:47] <alex_joni> brb
[15:58:09] <robin_sz> that one is easy :)
[15:58:19] <SWPadnos> oh good :)
[15:58:31] <SWPadnos> new cameras / digitizers / cables ;)
[15:58:33] <robin_sz> and the line slowly moves through the picture,
[15:59:05] <SWPadnos> could be - stays steady for a while then moves or something like that
[15:59:19] <robin_sz> well, what does it do?
[15:59:26] <SWPadnos> "they sometimes move"
[15:59:42] <robin_sz> depends a bit on what he means by that
[15:59:52] <robin_sz> anyway, it looks like hum
[16:00:01] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos>do the black lines remain stationary or are they in random places?
[16:00:03] <SWPadnos> <alex_joni>2 lines, half an image apart
[16:00:04] <SWPadnos> <alex_joni>they sometimes move
[16:00:08] <robin_sz> thats correct
[16:00:17] <SWPadnos> ground loop?
[16:00:24] <robin_sz> effectively, yes
[16:00:31] <SWPadnos> oh - picking up mains hum or something
[16:00:55] <robin_sz> or a poor clamp in the decoder
[16:01:12] <robin_sz> it *should* be able to clamp it out
[16:01:35] <SWPadnos> I didn't get the brand of frame grabber
[16:01:40] <robin_sz> with a simple clamp in the back porch
[16:02:19] <robin_sz> some are better than others , some only cope with so much hum
[16:02:41] <SWPadnos> hmm. so you're thinking that the retrace is being "interrupted" by a spike during the back porch? (or something like that)
[16:02:59] <SWPadnos> (retrace is during the back porch, right?)
[16:03:32] <robin_sz> flyback ...
[16:03:41] <robin_sz> during the sync pulse period usually
[16:03:50] <SWPadnos> right
[16:04:09] <SWPadnos> duh
[16:04:16] <robin_sz> I probabkly meant to say front porch anyway
[16:04:22] <robin_sz> where the color burst is
[16:04:29] <SWPadnos> I've been looking almost exclusively at LCD timings recently - not a lot of retrace time there
[16:04:45] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if he's using them in PAL or NTSC mode
[16:04:48] <robin_sz> anyway ... it should just clamp the DC level there, and remove hum ..
[16:05:03] <robin_sz> they are basically the same, only the frequencies and numerb of lines change
[16:05:37] <robin_sz> anyway .. its probably either a poor clamp in the decoder, or a broken screen in the cable somewhere
[16:06:14] <SWPadnos> ok - I figured it would be something simple and obvious to someone who had worked in broadcast ;)
[16:06:25] <robin_sz> you can get "video rep coils" ... basically, about 200m of coax, wrapped around a transformer core
[16:06:50] <robin_sz> it puts a load of inductance in the outer core, can help in really bad hum situations
[16:07:04] <robin_sz> but basically, it will come down to groundign I bet
[16:07:21] <robin_sz> maybe his PC isnt grounded on the case or something?
[16:07:40] <SWPadnos> yeah -it looks like one of those "analog problems" you get with computers from time to time
[16:07:42] <robin_sz> yeah
[16:08:07] <robin_sz> but wat he is seeing is defiently mains hum on the video ... from where it comes is another matter :)
[16:08:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:08:34] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is very very annoyed
[16:08:56] <robin_sz> so .. I work all week
[16:09:03] <robin_sz> I work all saturday morning ...
[16:09:11] <robin_sz> I come home, have a cup of tea
[16:09:20] <robin_sz> get the bike out of the shed after winter ...
[16:09:21] <SWPadnos> and you're still not done
[16:09:39] <robin_sz> think .. "I'll just go and get some cleaning kit and polish it ..." and ...??
[16:10:11] <robin_sz> wife has gone off, left the kids here, taken all the car seats with her so I can't take them with me, not switched her mobile phone on.
[16:11:02] <SWPadnos> heh - stuck
[16:11:07] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[16:11:16] <robin_sz> I hope I can find some petrol for the chainsaw
[16:11:33] <SWPadnos> wait!!! - she'll be home sometime!!!
[16:11:40] <SWPadnos> oh - not for the kids
[16:11:42] <robin_sz> thats what I'm waiting for ...
[16:12:01] <robin_sz> you seen "texas chainsaw massacre" ??
[16:12:13] <robin_sz> now .. where did I put my hockey mask
[16:13:25] <robin_sz> I found a new, fast method of wart removal today
[16:13:31] <robin_sz> 5" air grinder
[16:13:37] <robin_sz> quick ...
[16:13:39] <robin_sz> efficient
[16:13:48] <robin_sz> but not *exactly* painless
[16:14:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:18:02] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[16:20:49] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc: strip quotes from arguents, so that 'step_type=3,3,3' works
[16:22:34] <alex_joni> robin_sz: so you think it's mains hum ?
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: (log message trimmed)
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> make the sequence
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> loadrt stepgen step_type=2,2,2
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> loadrt freqgen step_type=0
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> work on the simulator. before, it acted like
[16:22:51] <CIA-6> loadrt stepgen step_type=2,2,2
[16:22:55] <CIA-6> loadrt freqgen step_type=0,2,2
[16:23:44] <alex_joni> robin_sz: the decoder is a regular BT878
[16:23:49] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/modparam.0/ (expected test.hal): new test for bugs in loadrt on simulator
[16:23:53] <alex_joni> not much filtering on the inputs
[16:24:37] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: Do you remember the other day when you were explaining to someone how to make a charge pump, and you said you didn't understand why for my config I used siggen and then freqgen ?
[16:24:42] <robin_sz> its a question of clmaping not filtereing
[16:24:44] <alex_joni> robin_sz: right
[16:24:53] <alex_joni> robin_sz: clamping ?
[16:25:01] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: right
[16:25:24] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: I'm going over the whole thing now, and the reason there is a freqgen is because I needed to convert the float signal to a bit signal, just wondering if you know of a better way to do that
[16:25:31] <robin_sz> alex_joni, in simple terms, the signal comes in, through a C, then there is a diode and a switch to ground
[16:25:38] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: there are converters now
[16:26:03] <alex_joni> robin_sz: so if it just comes in and enters the BT878 then I guess .. :)
[16:26:17] <robin_sz> alex_joni, during one part fo the signal where the level is known (called the front porch) a small, but very fast, pixe operates the switch
[16:26:23] <robin_sz> probably ...
[16:26:36] <robin_sz> anwyay .. you migh thave more hum than it can cope with
[16:26:39] <alex_joni> it worked on a different PSU though
[16:26:50] <robin_sz> there you go then
[16:26:50] <alex_joni> but I only connected one camera on that one
[16:26:56] <alex_joni> and it had shorter cables
[16:27:19] <robin_sz> up to 50m of cabel is not usually a problem
[16:27:32] <alex_joni> it's less than 50m
[16:27:41] <alex_joni> but I used some UTP for power supply
[16:27:41] <robin_sz> try a different PSU then
[16:28:13] <robin_sz> anyway , its 100% certain hum
[16:29:58] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtapi_app.h rtapi.h):
[16:29:59] <CIA-6> make the sequence
[16:29:59] <CIA-6> loadrt stepgen step_type=2,2,2
[16:29:59] <CIA-6> loadrt freqgen step_type=0
[16:29:59] <CIA-6> work on the simulator
[16:31:06] <Rugludallur> jepler: you there ?
[16:32:16] <jepler> Rugludallur: yes
[16:32:50] <Rugludallur> jepler: im testing your gantrykins now (sorry how long it took)
[16:33:04] <jepler> Rugludallur: that's OK, I've forgotten all about it
[16:33:06] <Rugludallur> jepler: I had to make an adjustment or two to make it work with 2.1, want the updated file ?
[16:33:34] <Rugludallur> jepler: seems the source never made it into cvs, I got it from your website
[16:34:24] <jepler> Rugludallur: that's right, I never put it in cvs
[16:35:07] <Rugludallur> jepler: want me to mail you the updated source or dcc ?
[16:35:22] <jepler> Rugludallur: e-mail or pastebin
[16:35:30] <jepler> jepler@unpy.net
[16:36:48] <alex_joni> jepler: you plan to stick it into CVS?
[16:38:37] <jepler> if it is useful to people with gantry machines, yes
[16:38:47] <alex_joni> I'd name it more generic than gantry kins
[16:39:08] <alex_joni> I think it's also usefull to solve the trivkins where some axes are missing
[16:39:37] <CIA-6> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: the rtapi 'kernel' module is unused on the simulator
[16:40:57] <cradek> * cradek stumbles out of bed
[16:42:26] <jlmjvm> Good Morning all
[16:43:18] <jepler> hi cradek
[16:43:30] <jlmjvm> Im having a shared limit/home switch problem
[16:44:54] <jepler> jlmjvm: if you can describe the problem, someone may be able to help you
[16:46:11] <jlmjvm> for some reason it works with the machine off,but when machine is on it will hang on the switch
[16:46:47] <rayh> You mean the physical machine on, not the emc internal machine on?
[16:46:59] <jlmjvm> yes
[16:47:20] <rayh> Does that power on change the polarity of parport pins?
[16:47:25] <jlmjvm> when i actually home the bridgeport
[16:48:05] <jlmjvm> no
[16:48:32] <jlmjvm> the breakout board power come from computer
[16:48:35] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: sorry to bother you but I got a quick question, performance wise to convert from float to bit, would you use freqgen, comp, or convert to s32 and then to bit ?
[16:49:29] <rayh> What breakout?
[16:50:46] <jlmjvm> paraport breakout board
[16:51:22] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: comp
[16:51:29] <alex_joni> or wcomp
[16:52:25] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: great, thanks
[16:53:57] <jlmjvm> can home z axis,when i try to home y axis,it hangs,says joint 1 on limit switch error
[16:55:14] <Rugludallur> jlmjvm: have you added HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES to your AXIS configuration in your .INI file ?
[16:55:43] <jlmjvm> yep
[16:55:59] <jlmjvm> let me pastbin it
[16:57:11] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/389284
[16:57:51] <jepler> jlmjvm: you are using one input for Y limit, Y home, Z limit and Z home?
[16:59:00] <Rugludallur> jlmjvm: Are you using Bob Campbells breakout board?
[16:59:16] <jlmjvm> no 1 from cnc 4 pc
[16:59:44] <jlmjvm> yes 1 pin for xhome/limit,y home/limit
[17:00:34] <jlmjvm> its actually flickering between green and red on the y axis
[17:01:30] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: fix MACHINE ON bug (used to stay active on shutdown)
[17:02:56] <jepler> jlmjvm: in emc 2.1.1 you can't effectively have one input pin be used for the home and limit of two axes.
[17:03:27] <jlmjvm> no,1 per axis,sorry
[17:03:38] <jepler> jlmjvm: [AXIS_n] HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES only means "ignore the limit switches on this axis when this axis is homing", so if you are homing axis 2 and axis 1's home switch triggers, you will get a limit error
[17:03:47] <jlmjvm> x=11,y=12,13=z
[17:03:53] <jepler> jlmjvm: OK
[17:04:03] <Rugludallur> jljvm: remove HOME_IS_SHARED = 1
[17:04:12] <jepler> jlmjvm: then the problem I was just talking about should not apply
[17:05:07] <jlmjvm> k
[17:06:40] <jepler> jlmjvm: when homing to a limit switch, you need to make sure emc moves off the switch
[17:06:54] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: backport bugfix: MACHINE ON was left active on shutdown
[17:07:23] <jlmjvm> still not doing it,i think it need come off the switch a hair more
[17:07:42] <jlmjvm> would that be the home offset?
[17:07:43] <jepler> jlmjvm: if I read your inifile right, you have not specified HOME_OFFSET or HOME, so the switch is at 0 and emc moves to 0 (e.g., no additional move) which means it will still be sitting right on the switch
[17:08:01] <jepler> jlmjvm: HOME_OFFSET is the value of the axis at the switch
[17:08:08] <jepler> HOME is the coordinate to go to at the end of the procedure
[17:08:48] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: note about MACHINE ON left active bugfix
[17:09:00] <jlmjvm> what would you input if you wanted to move off the switch .010 thou
[17:09:59] <alex_joni> what should the readout be after the move?
[17:10:07] <alex_joni> 0? or 0.010 ?
[17:10:50] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/img1.png
[17:11:56] <jepler> maybe you want HOME = -.010 ?
[17:14:59] <jlmjvm> sorry had to reboot
[17:15:18] <a-l-p-h-a> be sorry. be very very sorry. for the reboot monster will get you in your sleep.
[17:15:35] <a-l-p-h-a> the ups monster got me a few weeks back...
[17:15:37] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/img1.png
[17:15:40] <jepler> maybe you want HOME = -.010 ?
[17:15:44] <a-l-p-h-a> nothing would turn on.
[17:17:13] <jlmjvm> i just want to move off the switch about .010
[17:19:11] <rayh> HOME_OFFSET 0.10??
[17:19:35] <Jymmmm> HOME_OFFSET 10.0!! =)
[17:19:40] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: basicly there are 2 ways to do it
[17:19:50] <alex_joni> 1. HOME=0, HOME_OFFSET=0.10
[17:20:01] <alex_joni> 2. HOME=-.01 HOME_OFFSET=0
[17:20:17] <alex_joni> both will go to the switch, then move .01 off it
[17:20:46] <alex_joni> but in the first case you'll have the home position exactly on the switch, in the second case you'll have the home position .01 off the switch
[17:22:38] <jlmjvm> first didnt work,will try second
[17:22:51] <alex_joni> what do you mean didn't work?
[17:23:04] <Jymmmm> .100 is enough?
[17:23:06] <alex_joni> there's no such thing as didn't work :P
[17:23:23] <rayh> there is work and work wrong.
[17:23:24] <Jymmmm> alex_joni didn't work, then starved.
[17:23:46] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you are actually watching for it to come off the switch?
[17:23:54] <jlmjvm> yes
[17:24:05] <alex_joni> in that case (depending on the HOMING velocity it might be further away than .01)
[17:24:23] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: home it, then jog it manually till it comes off the switch, and check the distance
[17:24:31] <alex_joni> then use that in the ini (+ some margin)
[17:24:50] <Jymmmm> and if you're using micro switches, try it a coupel of times.
[17:25:12] <jepler> HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.025
[17:25:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks that's fairly slow
[17:25:29] <jepler> in the nist-lathe configuration, where I know the homing works, a much smaller HOME_LATCH_VEL is used than yours
[17:25:48] <Jymmmm> negative vel?
[17:26:13] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: homes in the other direction
[17:26:18] <cradek> you want to go no faster than one step/count per servo cycle
[17:26:27] <cradek> (for best results)
[17:26:40] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: Ah, gotcha. I thought you guys were breaking the laws of physics (again).
[17:26:58] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: it's all relative .. as someone once said :)
[17:27:05] <Jymmmm> <rimshot>
[17:27:11] <alex_joni> a hairy dude
[17:27:37] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: Have you ever seen the photo pf al these guys in here?!
[17:27:51] <alex_joni> from Fest?
[17:27:52] <alex_joni> yeah..
[17:27:54] <Jymmmm> yeah
[17:28:08] <alex_joni> that was long ago..
[17:28:21] <alex_joni> I still have some nightmares sometimes (j/k)
[17:28:22] <Jymmmm> All are Grizzly Adams look alikes =)
[17:28:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni decides to start growing a beard
[17:29:08] <alex_joni> after that I'll be able to join Fest too :)
[17:29:11] <Jymmmm> lol
[17:29:21] <cradek> haha
[17:29:34] <cradek> we like you anyway
[17:29:45] <rayh> There are a few "all american boys" the others are clean shaven.
[17:29:58] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/cncworkshopemc.JPG
[17:30:21] <alex_joni> 6:4 in that pic :)
[17:31:29] <jlmjvm> that is a burly looking bunch
[17:32:56] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: le cr.me de la cr.me
[17:37:38] <jlmjvm> lol
[17:38:21] <jlmjvm> allright,this needs to move off the switch .100 thou of an inch
[17:39:26] <a-l-p-h-a> swampy's the hippie. XD
[17:40:17] <jlmjvm> that worked
[17:40:54] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: see.. now you're on the right track
[17:41:05] <alex_joni> it _must_ work
[17:41:33] <jlmjvm> yes it must
[17:45:38] <SWPadnos> I am *NOT* a hippie
[17:45:45] <SWPadnos> I'm way too young for that :)
[17:45:57] <alex_joni> haha
[17:49:02] <a-l-p-h-a> sorry, the long hair confuses me.
[17:49:38] <alex_joni> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=de+la+creme+de+la+creme+de+la+creme+de+la+creme+de+la+creme+de+la+creme
[17:49:41] <alex_joni> hahaha
[17:57:14] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: s/hippie/goth/
[17:57:17] <SWPadnos> so - pointing sources.list at the dapper repos and soing "dist-upgrade" on a BDI 4.3-era computer does not result in a usable Ubuntu+EMC2 system
[17:57:25] <SWPadnos> no - no piercings at the moment
[17:57:29] <SWPadnos> and none planned
[17:57:48] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos s/hippie/Johnny Cash/ ?
[17:57:59] <cradek> SWPadnos: you don't plan for those - they just happen one day
[17:58:21] <SWPadnos> heh - that's OK, but the ones you stick shiny things into (on purpose) are gross, in my view
[17:58:40] <Jymmmm> Ok, got a question... in regards to steppers, aperage does what? torque?
[17:58:44] <SWPadnos> er - that was supopsed to be "a BDI 4.30-era computer"
[17:59:02] <SWPadnos> current always is proportional to torque, in any type of motor
[17:59:01] <Jymmmm> cradek: Usually Jose Quervo is involved.
[17:59:19] <SWPadnos> (at least any type I know of)
[17:59:37] <Jymmmm> higher amperage == higher torque?
[17:59:36] <SWPadnos> voltage is always proportional to speed, and amx voltage is generally related to max speed
[17:59:53] <SWPadnos> yes, that's what "proportional" means (vs. inversely proportional) :)
[18:00:13] <Jymmmm> ok
[18:00:46] <a-l-p-h-a> I wonder if I could start a money pool, for swampy to cut his hair... top contributor gets a lock of his hair. and I get 10% of the proceeds for organising it. Rest is up to swampy, he could pocket it, or donate it to charity. :)
[18:00:57] <SWPadnos> I am a charity ;)
[18:01:02] <a-l-p-h-a> case.
[18:01:22] <jlmjvm> lol
[18:01:29] <Jymmmm> For some reason my X axis is causing vibrations - I can see it vibrate the rabbit hutch doors, but YZ don't.
[18:01:52] <jlmjvm> is it servo?
[18:01:55] <a-l-p-h-a> what's a rabbit hutch door?
[18:02:03] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymmmm, at all speeds?
[18:02:15] <Jymmmm> a-l-p-h-a 4' x 4' x 3' dust enclosure.
[18:02:24] <Jymmmm> a-l-p-h-a jogging
[18:03:41] <a-l-p-h-a> hmm... so it's not resonance... could just be the structure of your setup.
[18:03:47] <Jymmmm> Y sounds/feels smooth. But X sounds "funny" when jogging.
[18:03:48] <a-l-p-h-a> still that K2 thing right?
[18:04:00] <Jymmmm> yeah
[18:04:00] <a-l-p-h-a> could it be the screws not in perfect alignment?
[18:04:18] <Jymmmm> I guess, not really a way to tell.
[18:04:45] <Jymmmm> everything is greased up - rails and ballscrews
[18:05:08] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm notes: Never buy the Mini grease gun, just a waste of money.
[18:05:51] <Jymmmm> 2 * 3oz cartrdige $5, 14oz cartridge $4
[18:07:00] <Jymmmm> I just can't figure out if something is bent, out of alignment, or what. Driving me bonkers (short drive)
[18:12:35] <Jymmmm> anyone have any thoughts?
[18:13:24] <jlmjvm> is it a servo?
[18:13:28] <Jymmmm> stepper
[18:13:31] <SWPadnos> swap drive connections and see if the problem follows the motor or the drive
[18:13:32] <jlmjvm> k
[18:13:48] <jlmjvm> thats a good 1
[18:13:50] <SWPadnos> after that, if it's still on X, then swap motors around PITA I know, but still)
[18:14:25] <jlmjvm> what kind of driver
[18:14:33] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos REAL PITA, all spiral wrapped and tie wrapped
[18:14:45] <SWPadnos> heh - nuce energy chain too :)
[18:14:51] <SWPadnos> are there no connectors at the motor end?
[18:15:08] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos Yeah, the mat n lock
[18:15:11] <Jymmmm> mate
[18:15:33] <SWPadnos> then you disconnect the motor from one axis, and stick it on the other axis. you don't need to inwrap the wires
[18:15:38] <SWPadnos> unwrap
[18:16:20] <Jymmmm> Heh, that's what YOU think =) I have em wraped up to prevent undue stress on the wiring coming out of the motors
[18:16:35] <SWPadnos> I hope you have good wire cutters thn ;)
[18:16:36] <SWPadnos> then
[18:16:56] <SWPadnos> damn. first day over freezing temperatures, and my fingers are still unable to get all the letters out
[18:17:17] <jlmjvm> where r u at
[18:17:49] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos You really think it's motor/driver more so than mechanical?
[18:18:15] <SWPadnos> I don't know - that's what troubleshooting is for ;)
[18:18:28] <SWPadnos> do you have travel locks (clamps for the axes)?
[18:18:48] <Jymmmm> I already swapped drivers, no change on X axis
[18:18:53] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:18:54] <Jymmmm> clamps for?
[18:19:12] <SWPadnos> like the axis locks on a BP - you turn a handle and it locks an axis in place
[18:19:21] <SWPadnos> or clamps it down anyway
[18:19:33] <Jymmmm> nothing like that.
[18:19:57] <tomp> the idea is to stiffen the unused elements and listen again.
[18:20:00] <SWPadnos> if it's a resonance problem then you can change the resonant frequency by (a) changing the weight, (b) changing the fricion or (c) some other things
[18:20:15] <SWPadnos> actually, I was thinking of putting drag on the X axis
[18:20:48] <Jymmmm> ah
[18:21:41] <Jymmmm> If it resonating, I just figure out where it's coming from.
[18:21:47] <SWPadnos> right
[18:21:49] <Jymmmm> ^can't
[18:22:01] <SWPadnos> does the door shake even when it's open?
[18:22:30] <Jymmmm> Not really, I could lean againest the rabbit hutch w/o a problem
[18:22:50] <Jymmmm> though, the doors full open look like wings.
[18:22:50] <SWPadnos> is the door touching something when it's closed?
[18:23:28] <Jymmmm> Yeah, each other + a bottom full length stop
[18:23:39] <Jymmmm> dbl doors
[18:23:54] <SWPadnos> I mean on the machine
[18:24:06] <SWPadnos> even a cable or something
[18:24:36] <Jymmmm> Oh, no the doors nor the hutch itself is touching the machine at all. Yes just the cabling coming thru a hole in the rear.
[18:25:37] <Jymmmm> The hole thing is sitting on a gorilla rack. I can sit on the table the machine is sitting on wiggle my ass and nuttin moves.
[18:25:49] <Jymmmm> whole
[18:26:10] <Jymmmm> the hutch is directly bolted to the gorilla rack
[18:26:41] <Jymmmm> This is earthquake country ya know =)
[18:26:46] <SWPadnos> aaaah!! I'm blind!!!
[18:27:13] <SWPadnos> /must ban image of Jymmmm wiggling his ass on a table
[18:27:14] <Jymmmm> I never said nakkid!
[18:28:19] <Jymmmm> ok, steppers have been idling for 30 minutes.... time to take some temperature redadings.
[18:32:23] <Jymmmm> Z = 58, XY = 68
[18:32:36] <Jymmmm> I have Z amp turned down a bit
[18:35:35] <Jymmmm> FF has chatzilla?!
[18:35:43] <Jymmmm> must be a plugin.
[18:36:03] <jepler> Jymmmm: yes, https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/16/
[18:36:21] <Jymmmm> ah
[18:37:53] <Jymmmm> With some of the issues I've had, Sometimes I feel I bought a lemon. *sigh*
[18:40:12] <Jymmmm> Speaking of lemons, anyone seen Les in a while?
[18:43:20] <robin_sz> oopsy ....
[18:43:38] <Jymmmm> Les was pretty good at getting the lemonaid out of lemons =)
[18:43:50] <Jymmmm> robin_sz you being smartass again?
[18:43:51] <tomp> what does the motor sound like when not connected and laying on a rag? what does the motor sound like resting on a hard surface of your machine? 1st show motor noise, 2nd shows conducted noise.also move the axis w/o motor (maybe undo nut) to see slide's native noise.
[18:44:51] <robin_sz> Jymmmm, is the machine bolted to the rack?
[18:44:53] <Jymmmm> tomp I cna pull the belt off and jog it, gimme a few.
[18:44:59] <Jymmmm> robin_sz no
[18:45:04] <robin_sz> rubber mounted?
[18:45:27] <Jymmmm> robin_sz no, but no vibration in YZ, just X
[18:45:56] <tomp> belt removal will show hard mount noise of motor thru machine. useful but needs interpreting.
[18:46:34] <Jymmmm> ok, nm then =)
[18:47:01] <robin_sz> this is the X axis with the central ballsrew and then two raisl running front to back?
[18:47:36] <Jymmmm> robin_sz yes, what pic?
[18:47:47] <Jymmmm> want
[18:47:48] <robin_sz> and the rails are how far apart?
[18:47:52] <robin_sz> roughly
[18:48:24] <Jymmmm> This is close to mine, just no where as tall... http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/Pictures/detail.asp?iData=29&iCat=636&iChannel=3&nChannel=Pictures
[18:48:32] <robin_sz> and the rails are how far apart?
[18:48:33] <robin_sz> roughly
[18:48:48] <Jymmmm> rail ---- 12" --- ballscrew ----- 12" ---- Rail
[18:48:56] <robin_sz> so 24" apart
[18:48:56] <skunkworkstrempl> jepler: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269743&posted=1#post269743
[18:49:13] <robin_sz> and the carriages are how far apart on each rail?
[18:49:33] <Jymmmm> ~9"
[18:50:13] <robin_sz> hmmm ... not good
[18:50:44] <robin_sz> thats OK for a dual sided drive ... but a disaster for a centre driven system
[18:51:12] <tomp> regarding noise or machine stiffness?
[18:51:21] <Jymmmm> 24" travel in x and Y, 5.5" in Z
[18:51:37] <robin_sz> stiffness .. I suspect it might not be noise so much as the gantry "walking"
[18:51:49] <tomp> noise is Jymmmmm's concern right now
[18:52:03] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[18:52:08] <robin_sz> let me rephrase that
[18:52:16] <tomp> i agree on other issue, but he's looking at noise
[18:52:25] <robin_sz> the source of the noise might be the walkign gantry
[18:52:32] <tomp> yep
[18:52:33] <Jymmmm> tomp Well, it's just that I noticed the noise being an issue.
[18:52:53] <Jymmmm> nothing I can really "see", just hear/feel.
[18:53:25] <robin_sz> when you say "noise" is the issue the fact that you think it will affect tmachine performance, or you want to keep the neighbours happy?
[18:53:54] <Jymmmm> screw the neighbors.... I'm just spekaing of smooth operation/performance.
[18:53:59] <robin_sz> right
[18:54:12] <robin_sz> is the drive microstepping?
[18:54:47] <Jymmmm> I mena if Y is smooth w/o vibration, yet X isn't. That just tells me "something" is up. Yes, 8
[18:55:29] <robin_sz> maybe ... remember Y is insulated fromt he construction by two springs acting in the right direction to isolate vibration from the chassis
[18:56:09] <robin_sz> the side of the gantry look fairly springy in a Y direction
[18:56:19] <Jymmmm> When I FIRST hooked it up yesterday, X would stall in one diration about the same spot everytime. When I finally got enough grease on the ballscrew it doens't stall now.
[18:56:31] <robin_sz> coo
[18:56:58] <robin_sz> sounds like its quite close to a stall then ... not much extra left over for cutting
[18:57:16] <robin_sz> tried disconnecting the X nut from the gantry?
[18:57:17] <Jymmmm> I think the ballscrew housing was dry is all.
[18:57:40] <robin_sz> then you can push the gantry up and down ... see if thats smooth and free
[18:57:50] <robin_sz> and see if the drive system is the source of noise
[18:57:55] <Jymmmm> robin_sz Oh it's very smooth disconnected.
[18:57:57] <robin_sz> right
[18:58:11] <Jymmmm> even before I hit the truck with the grease gun.
[18:58:13] <robin_sz> so ... is the x microstepped?
[18:58:18] <Jymmmm> carriages
[18:58:25] <Jymmmm> Yes, 8
[18:58:34] <robin_sz> should be silky smooth then
[18:59:15] <robin_sz> you could try swapping over the X and Y pulse streams, see if it is a drive signal issue
[18:59:27] <Jymmmm> already have, same results.
[18:59:31] <tomp> fine test. a glass of water on a slide will show when its real smooth. watch ripples on the surface. and good comparison slide to slide.
[18:59:48] <tomp> and you were going to remove belt. notice anything?
[19:00:16] <Jymmmm> tomp let me go try that now, brb (time for another temperature reading too)
[19:00:53] <robin_sz> maybe its just the X axis motor is driven harder and he's hearing the steps more as it hits a bit harder
[19:01:01] <rayh> darn -- can't keep the water in the glass;)
[19:01:09] <tomp> :)
[19:01:25] <tomp> ray: not for angular!
[19:01:27] <robin_sz> as a matter of interest, 0ne rev of the motor = how much gantry movement?
[19:05:59] <rayh> Oh. I thought the problem might be my MAX ACCEL=120
[19:07:25] <robin_sz> oopsy
[19:07:59] <robin_sz> sigh ... my 7yr old just got annoyed with someof the neighbours kids ... so he wrote them a note
[19:08:35] <robin_sz> in hindsight, I thiink he now regrets starting it with the "f" word
[19:08:41] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[19:09:45] <cradek> I've done that, but it's usually been using email
[19:10:39] <cradek> it's a good lesson for him to learn early I guess
[19:11:51] <SWPadnos> as long as it isn't written on their fence, it may end up OK
[19:12:04] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[19:12:09] <cradek> true
[19:12:19] <cradek> or with salt in the yard
[19:12:36] <robin_sz> yeah, I suppose it would have been worse if he had spray painted it down their walls
[19:12:50] <robin_sz> paper burns easily, its gone
[19:14:42] <robin_sz> the really annoying part is the little tell-tale creep that came running in with the "Look what your boy wrote" story, is the foul mouthed creature he has learnt it from
[19:15:02] <robin_sz> better go fire up that chainsaw again ...
[19:17:40] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: fix backplot issues (accessing axes which don't exist: e.g. A,B,C on machines with [TRAJ]AXES=3)
[19:22:30] <pier> Could anyone around answer some questions on python and tkinter?
[19:25:28] <a-l-p-h-a> What's the document called, if someone's paid in full. Receipt, but is there any other name to it?
[19:25:58] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/5i20_vhdl/Makefile: remove unused function (param_generator was a duplicate of parameter_generator)
[19:25:58] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd_completion.c: remove unused function (param_generator was a duplicate of parameter_generator)
[19:26:06] <jmkasunich> crap
[19:26:17] <jmkasunich> didn't want to commit that makefile change
[19:26:47] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, deed?
[19:27:01] <SWPadnos> cvs --revert-to-what-I-wanted Makefile
[19:27:39] <jmkasunich> actually, that change isn't a problem
[19:27:48] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of something else
[19:27:54] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, nah.
[19:27:59] <a-l-p-h-a> "Invoice"?
[19:28:05] <a-l-p-h-a> is invoice right?
[19:28:11] <jmkasunich> too many things going on in parallel here
[19:28:10] <robin_sz> no
[19:28:36] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, an invoice just means you have been asked to pay ... not paid
[19:28:37] <a-l-p-h-a> and invoice is what's being charged. a "account statement" is what's currently owed...
[19:28:52] <SWPadnos> final reconciliation?
[19:28:54] <a-l-p-h-a> so, and invoice / account statement are similar?
[19:29:12] <robin_sz> not really
[19:29:12] <a-l-p-h-a> I just need to write something to my client, saying, he's paid in full, thank you.
[19:29:21] <SWPadnos> no - an invoice is a request for payment for something
[19:29:22] <robin_sz> sales receipt
[19:29:33] <SWPadnos> a statement is a list of invoices and payments, with a total remaining balance
[19:29:40] <a-l-p-h-a> okie. Sales Receipt sounds good.
[19:29:48] <robin_sz> or send a COPY invoice, with "paid with thanks" stamped on it
[19:30:06] <SWPadnos> the invoice represents new charges, whereas a statement only reflects existing items
[19:30:20] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, ahh. :)
[19:30:32] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz's suggestion with "paid with thanks" is good. :)
[19:30:39] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, issuing an invoice in business terms has tax implications. thats the poitn at which sales tax from you becomes due and when your client can offset that againts other stuff
[19:30:55] <SWPadnos> one slight correction: a statement may include additional charges such as penalties, interest, and late fees
[19:31:13] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, I am a registered business, so I can charge tax, if it's a packaged product, which none was... everything's classified as custom software
[19:31:18] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, invoices are when the accountign happens, your profits go up, his profits go down, slaes tax moves about ... all this happens at issue of invoice time, not when its actually paid
[19:31:51] <tomp> mshaver: what about svg / uml (umbrello) for the big diagrams ( or dia ... thats in the base package ) ?
[19:32:03] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, so an invoice is a very sspecific thing
[19:32:11] <a-l-p-h-a> robin_sz, thanks.
[19:32:17] <robin_sz> a-l-p-h-a, no problemo
[19:33:23] <Jymmmm> Issue a statement with Balance = ZERO
[19:35:04] <Jymmmm> Ok, running X w/o belt attached, stalls at high speed jog. Turn amps from 3a to 2.5a, still stalls. Turned down to 2A no stalling. Connected belt back up, X seems to jog a tad slower and a bit smoother, but still has some vibration.
[19:36:15] <Jymmmm> I *THINK* there's an issue in the ball housing, I *think* I can hear some roughness in the ball return. I had turn this apart months ago, cleaned up some rough edges on the ball return and repacked it. so just not sure at this point.
[19:37:19] <tomp> Jymmmm: cheap mechanics stethoscope = long handled screwdriver. amplifier = hold screwdriver end in teeth.... any idea why less current eleminated stalling?
[19:38:10] <SWPadnos> xylotex ...
[19:38:16] <Jymmmm> tomp: Not a clue, something SWPadnos had suggested trying couple weeks ago
[19:38:30] <SWPadnos> I did? - I wonder why
[19:38:56] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: I listen to what you say... sometimes I act on it, sometimes I don't =)
[19:39:19] <SWPadnos> ok. I just wish I could remember what I dais ;)
[19:39:21] <SWPadnos> said
[19:39:22] <alex_joni> I usually stick the screwdriver in my ear
[19:39:43] <SWPadnos> sounds like Roger Rabbit to me
[19:39:43] <tomp> alex: amplifier = ...
[19:39:47] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos I could look it up in the logs, but eh.
[19:39:56] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: the handle end I assume ;-)
[19:40:03] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: right
[19:40:10] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, so could I, but I don't attach that much importance to what I say
[19:40:15] <SWPadnos> err - I meant ...
[19:40:16] <alex_joni> and only if it can't enter my ear :D
[19:40:20] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos lol
[19:40:33] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos that's what SHE said!
[19:40:54] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, SHE didn't care about me saying anything ...
[19:41:06] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos Do you thin this is directly related to the xylotex itself, or the motors as well?
[19:41:17] <SWPadnos> I have no idea
[19:41:29] <robin_sz> * robin_sz didnt think the xylotex drives were microstepping
[19:41:35] <Jymmmm> SWPLinux Well you musta suggested it for a reason?
[19:42:11] <SWPadnos> only as a general comment on why doing something that's not expected to help (turning down current) would actually help
[19:42:26] <tomp> to see the influence of xylotec... test is to use another brand amp ( larger current = more time = less velocity ?? )
[19:42:29] <Jymmmm> robin_sz: FULL, HALF, QUARTER, & EIGHTH step/Full Step
[19:42:51] <robin_sz> sounds like the stalls are resonance related then
[19:43:12] <anonimasu> :/
[19:43:17] <robin_sz> as the stall is occurring below the corner frequency
[19:43:44] <Jymmmm> robin_sz: well, IF I need more amperage, I'll get geckos as they have the dampening built in, xylotex don't.
[19:44:01] <robin_sz> its not an amperage issue ...
[19:44:07] <robin_sz> its a resonance issue
[19:44:20] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: geckos works flawlessly, they really do.. even running with lots of load
[19:44:22] <robin_sz> changing the current moves the resonance point about
[19:44:33] <anonimasu> and with little load..
[19:44:42] <robin_sz> it also shows its geared wrong
[19:44:48] <Jymmmm> robin_sz: Well, like I said, xylotex doens't have any damping built in.
[19:44:50] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: he means "I don't wanna pay gecko prices for damping, but if I need gecko current ratings, then I'll pay gecko prices"
[19:45:11] <Jymmmm> what jmkasunich said.
[19:45:10] <robin_sz> ar the xylotex cheaper?
[19:45:17] <jmkasunich> oh yeah
[19:45:19] <anonimasu> well, have fun ^_^
[19:45:22] <Jymmmm> robin_sz $155 for 3 axis
[19:45:23] <jmkasunich> xylotex 3 axis is about 1 gecko\
[19:45:27] <robin_sz> coo
[19:45:46] <jmkasunich> but they are 35V (max, 30 recommended) and 2.5 or 3A max
[19:45:53] <robin_sz> ahh.
[19:45:55] <anonimasu> well, if they dont work.. the price isnt important
[19:45:59] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[19:45:59] <jmkasunich> so people think xylotex for small motors and gecko for big
[19:46:08] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[19:46:14] <jmkasunich> they don't think about stuff like damping as a distinguishing feature
[19:46:44] <tomp> what did the motors sound like when disconnected. did they exhibit the same noise characteristic? and when touching ( conducting thru ) the machine tool?
[19:47:14] <Jymmmm> anonimasu the problem is I'm not sure of the issues I'm having are electrical or mechanical at this point. I just pointed out that lower amperage == no stalling is all.
[19:47:31] <Jymmmm> tomp Yes, no difference there.
[19:47:37] <robin_sz> well, that IS a resonance issue. FACT.
[19:47:47] <tomp> yep
[19:47:57] <jmkasunich> Jymmmm: what is the rated motor current?
[19:47:58] <robin_sz> and it also shows a gearing problem
[19:48:03] <Jymmmm> robin_sz: Or the vibration coming from the ballscrew .
[19:48:19] <jmkasunich> if you were running too high before, that would saturate the iron and make the microsteps non-linear
[19:48:28] <jmkasunich> which would worsen resonance issues
[19:48:29] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich: http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[19:48:43] <tomp> now go back to 'feeling' all the elements, motors not needed untill that is done
[19:48:52] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich Mariss said these motors would run sweet at 50V@3a
[19:50:31] <Jymmmm> tomp If I turn X ballscrew by hand (belte removed), I do feel some roughtness and can hear it in the ballhousing I believe.
[19:50:55] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, does that happen on Y?
[19:51:13] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos slightly
[19:51:20] <Jymmmm> Z is acme
[19:51:29] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:51:43] <tomp> Jymmmm: now look for what can change that... undo the nut and feel the slide by itself, spin nut by itself...
[19:52:07] <Jymmmm> can't spin the nut, encased around a C channel
[19:52:49] <tomp> Jymmmm: yes i saw the channel cover...
[19:53:53] <Jymmmm> Is it possible that I have the ballscrew too tight/loose?
[19:54:17] <anonimasu> unless your motors are way underspec:ed..
[19:54:20] <anonimasu> it shouldnt matter that much
[19:54:46] <Jymmmm> anonimasu pulleys are 2:1
[19:55:13] <robin_sz> so ... how much does it move the gantry for 1 motor rev?
[19:55:33] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: minor tweak
[19:55:43] <Jymmmm> iirc everything comes out to 10TPI in the end.
[19:56:06] <robin_sz> right
[19:56:14] <Jymmmm> Z 10TPI acme, XY 5tpi ballscrew on 2:1 pulleys
[19:56:26] <robin_sz> fwiw, its not running at half the speed it could run at yet
[19:56:43] <anonimasu> gear more :)
[19:57:10] <robin_sz> because the stall speed moves with current, we can tell it is below the corner frewquency
[19:57:27] <robin_sz> because above the corner freq, current setting has no effect
[19:57:58] <robin_sz> you should be able to spin the motors to ~twice corner freq qithout any problems
[19:58:17] <tomp> Jymmmm: re the ballnut feel... turn it very very slowly by fingertip and look for places where it may hang, where fingertip wont overcome it . if that happens... then too tight or chipped ball
[19:58:19] <robin_sz> try gearign 4:1 .. you should get the same speed, smoother and with more power
[19:58:29] <Jymmmm> At this point, I'd just like stable, not speed.
[19:58:36] <robin_sz> try gearign 4:1 .. you should get the same speed, smoother and with more power
[19:59:30] <Jymmmm> tomp: When I removed the nut months ago, I never noticed anything like that, but I didn't inspect EVERY SIGNLE BALL under a microscope eihter =)
[19:59:44] <robin_sz> or maybe use the xylotex on the 2 axes that work, and a gecko on your problem axis?
[20:00:51] <Jymmmm> Well, *IF* it's a mechanical issue, I don't wan to just toss on a gecko to compensate if I don't have to. (know what I mean?)
[20:01:10] <tomp> Jymmm: i dont mean look at balls, i mean feel the assy of the nut on the screw. did you actually pull the race returns off and take the balls out? thats a very clean room operation.
[20:01:49] <robin_sz> well, you know you have a resonance issue anyway, so you need to solve that possibly AS WELL as a mechaincal issue
[20:02:00] <Jymmmm> tomp: Yep, I hugged and loved eash and every single one of the 64 balls in the sucker =)
[20:02:05] <robin_sz> I presuem you are runing 1/8th step ?
[20:02:13] <Jymmmm> robin_sz yep
[20:03:02] <robin_sz> the only other thing worth trying is some sort of "rubber" drive coupling
[20:03:42] <tomp> wow: well robin's right. i think it begins as mechanical and becomes resonant ( doh, sort of by definition )
[20:03:44] <Jymmmm> robin_sz to reduce the vibrations?
[20:04:19] <anonimasu> though rubber couplings are expensive..
[20:04:20] <robin_sz> Jymmmm, to try and isotlate the mechanical load fromt he motor a little and reduce the resonance issues
[20:04:28] <anonimasu> unless you stick a piece of hoose on there..
[20:04:36] <robin_sz> hoose?
[20:04:41] <robin_sz> horse?
[20:04:40] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the cheap way..
[20:04:49] <robin_sz> house?
[20:04:51] <tomp> hose
[20:04:52] <anonimasu> "hose" ?
[20:04:59] <SWPadnos> horse?
[20:05:00] <robin_sz> ahh
[20:05:05] <Jymmmm> See, what's kinda screwy, is that when the ballscrew was low on grease, it would stall in the same position +-.5", no other place along the 24" travel.
[20:05:07] <anonimasu> robin_sz: stop being a language nazi!
[20:05:24] <robin_sz> * robin_sz salutes
[20:05:26] <Jymmmm> and in ONLY one direction, not the other.
[20:05:43] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: well ampeage helps with that
[20:05:51] <Jymmmm> anonimasu ?
[20:05:51] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:06:04] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: stalling :D
[20:06:22] <Jymmmm> anonimasu what would amp have to do with stalling in the SAME position every time and in only one direction?
[20:06:28] <robin_sz> under normal circumstances, if it stalls, wind up the current
[20:06:39] <anonimasu> well, why do you think your driver stalls?
[20:06:46] <tomp> mount indicator from slide to ballscrew move along length. any sudden readings are bad, should be near nill always. esp look in the 'stall area'
[20:07:59] <Jymmmm> tomp measing on the ballscrew itself?
[20:08:06] <Jymmmm> measuring
[20:08:57] <tomp> yes... you should have 0 runout consitantly, this is to find out why the 'bind' occurs
[20:09:46] <robin_sz> if its running so close to the stall anyway ... then something is wrong with the gearing and the amount of drive power avaialble
[20:09:59] <robin_sz> we already know the gearing could be changed to help
[20:10:06] <tomp> if none, the stand back and watch the cable carriers... the 1 direction thing gives me an image..
[20:10:27] <Jymmmm> cable carriers?
[20:10:53] <tomp> robin_sz: but for now he can use the weakness to help identify the source, before he increases power and looses the ability to notice
[20:11:09] <Jymmmm> I wish there was a pastebin for video
[20:11:16] <tomp> Jymmmm: i think you called them energy somethings
[20:11:15] <anonimasu> the source?
[20:11:27] <Jymmmm> tomp energy chain?
[20:11:37] <tomp> source of bind
[20:11:42] <anonimasu> tomp: are you even sure the minimal binding is a problem?
[20:12:20] <tomp> no, but it's whats been noticed, so i go with what i can perceive that is wrong, fix that and look again
[20:12:56] <tomp> or allow for it ;)
[20:14:27] <robin_sz> tomp, all these things are never quite even all over the chassis, mayeb on reall big strong machines, but this is aerr, well, flexible, so you will get loose and tight spots .. but if it feels smooth by hand, it must only be a few % tighter ... he must be runnign very close to the stall point
[20:15:21] <robin_sz> perhaps he can borrow a gecko, see if that removes the resonance problem?
[20:17:25] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: how about gearing more?
[20:18:51] <anonimasu> ah well, im off.
[20:19:20] <tomp> Jymmmm: back to the noticed problem. you now can 1) overcome it with gearing or amplifier. 2) tear it down and eliminate it 3) ignore it ( have a beer :)
[20:19:33] <tomp> anonimasu: bye
[20:22:12] <Jymmmm> Ya know, it *ALMOST* sounds like a bad bearing. It's predominant in one direstion more thna the other.
[20:22:29] <alex_joni> robin_sz: still about?
[20:23:05] <robin_sz> alex_joni, dunno, let me check
[20:23:11] <alex_joni> robin_sz: seems on low light / IR light it's way worse with that camera :(
[20:23:23] <robin_sz> alex_joni, as expected
[20:23:51] <robin_sz> its a "lift" ...
[20:23:52] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/7576
[20:24:09] <robin_sz> a DC offset .. you'll see it in blacks not whites so much , because of gamma
[20:24:32] <robin_sz> yep ... hummmmmmmmm
[20:24:47] <alex_joni> ok, I'll try powering the cameras off a battery next
[20:25:09] <tomp> any suggestions on near 50$US (+/-25$) soldering pens/stations. Both my Weller WP25 and Weller EC1005 station gave it up last nite. I do small pcb assy every few months. (battery very low ripple ;)
[20:25:31] <anonimasu> hm, weller 24v iron..
[20:25:40] <anonimasu> with integrated temp control
[20:26:03] <alex_joni> tomp: I have this one: http://shop.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=3554
[20:26:34] <tomp> wew! fancier than my microwave
[20:27:00] <tomp> how 'leist' ist der price ?
[20:27:26] <tomp> 56 euros...
[20:28:24] <alex_joni> 70$ or so
[20:28:41] <alex_joni> it's sure worth the money imo
[20:28:45] <tomp> very nice catalog, you have nice resources
[20:28:47] <alex_joni> I have mine for about 4 years.. still very good
[20:28:56] <DanielFalck> is probing/digitizing a stock feature in emc2 now?
[20:29:12] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: yes
[20:29:15] <DanielFalck> with the appropriate hardware...
[20:29:19] <DanielFalck> cool
[20:29:42] <DanielFalck> I saw a program in the examples directory that got me interested
[20:29:50] <Jymmmm> tomp: FWIW... http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[20:29:54] <Jymmmm> doh
[20:29:58] <robin_sz> got a scope?
[20:29:58] <robin_sz> this is easy to spot with a scope
[20:29:58] <robin_sz> is the camera PSU properly regulated DC? ...
[20:30:02] <robin_sz> could it be hummy?
[20:30:02] <Jymmmm> http://www.halted.com/commerce/ccp14731-40-watts-soldering-station-for-hobbyist---regular-wlc100-wel021.htm
[20:30:06] <robin_sz> you'll see it move through the image as mains frwquency and video frew are not quite the same always
[20:30:08] <robin_sz> hmm ... I think I spelt frequency with the incorrect number of "w"s
[20:30:15] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: so, did you read anything at all?
[20:30:30] <Jymmmm> anonimasu what was I supose to read?
[20:30:41] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: HOW ABOUT GEARING? <- that?
[20:30:46] <tomp> Jymmmm: found similar, you found even better price.... gawd i'm cheap
[20:31:00] <robin_sz> oops, i fell off there
[20:31:36] <Jymmmm> anonimasu: Well, I really don't have the physical space to put on a 3 or 4" pulley
[20:31:42] <robin_sz> alex_joni, its more visible in blacks than whites, because its a DC shift, so the gamma of the signal makes it more noticisabel in blacks
[20:31:53] <robin_sz> alex_joni, you have a scope?
[20:32:00] <alex_joni> I can get one
[20:32:05] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: toothed belts?
[20:32:12] <Jymmmm> anonimasu yeah
[20:32:14] <anonimasu> what kind of brutal sized gearing do you have?
[20:32:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: the PSU can definately be hummy..
[20:32:21] <anonimasu> I'm gearing 6:1 on my stepper axis..
[20:32:36] <anonimasu> with 2" gear..
[20:32:40] <alex_joni> it's one of those transformer, rectifier bridge, cap..
[20:32:48] <Jymmmm> This is Y == http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/Pictures/detail.asp?iData=30&iCat=636&iChannel=3&nChannel=Pictures
[20:33:20] <anonimasu> you can fit way bigger gears there..
[20:33:30] <Jymmmm> anonimasu Y isn't the problem
[20:33:35] <tomp> alex_joni: you can have a bit o ripple on that setup, try the battery for a quick test, theres no ripple/hum on a battery
[20:33:56] <Jymmmm> X == http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/images/cnc-router-KG-3925-K2cnc%2022.jpg
[20:34:03] <alex_joni> tomp: that's what I thought
[20:34:08] <robin_sz> alex_joni, try a temporary proper PSU,
[20:34:16] <robin_sz> alex_joni, is it suposed to be 12V DC?
[20:34:21] <robin_sz> or 5V?
[20:34:26] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: move the motor down?
[20:34:52] <Jymmmm> anonimasu: I can only move the motor left-right - that's it.
[20:35:01] <alex_joni> robin_sz: 12VDC
[20:35:06] <alex_joni> but 1A for both cameras
[20:35:12] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: isnt the motor just mounted on a plate?
[20:35:22] <Jymmmm> anonimasu That's not the problem. There is NO ROOM for a larger pulley on the ballscrew.
[20:35:28] <robin_sz> alex_joni, why not feed it from the 12V line in the PC?
[20:35:30] <anonimasu> smaller on the motor?
[20:35:39] <Jymmmm> anonimasu it's 1" now
[20:35:45] <robin_sz> alex_joni, do you have access to an oscilloscope?
[20:35:55] <anonimasu> nema23 ?
[20:36:00] <Jymmmm> anonimasu yes
[20:36:15] <anonimasu> you can fit a smaller one..
[20:36:29] <anonimasu> there's are ones down to ½ a inch.. or so..
[20:36:36] <robin_sz> alex_joni, do you have access to an oscilloscope?
[20:36:45] <Jymmmm> anonimasu: Ok, and what will re-gearing accomplish?
[20:37:03] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: you will get way more torque
[20:37:06] <robin_sz> Jymmmm, it will move or even eliminate the resonance
[20:37:09] <robin_sz> more torque
[20:37:12] <anonimasu> and you will move your corner frequency..
[20:37:11] <robin_sz> smoother
[20:37:21] <anonimasu> causing your machine to be smoother and faster.
[20:37:31] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I can get one
[20:37:32] <anonimasu> and use less power..
[20:37:48] <Jymmmm> Ok, did you guys miss the part when I said it "sounds" like a "bad bearing" would when I jog?
[20:37:57] <robin_sz> Jymmmm, no we heard that bit
[20:38:01] <Jymmmm> k
[20:38:17] <robin_sz> we also heard the bit where you said it got better when you lowered the current
[20:38:25] <anonimasu> steppers can also sound really weird when moving with low amperage..
[20:38:25] <robin_sz> the gearing is wrong.
[20:38:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni _needs_ one of these: http://www.coldheat.com/pro.cfm
[20:38:28] <anonimasu> or high.
[20:38:38] <Jymmmm> Well, it wouldn't stall when the belt was removed at lower amperage.
[20:38:41] <robin_sz> alex_joni, http://www.elecdesign.com/Files/29/6312/Figure_02.gif
[20:38:49] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: doh.
[20:38:52] <robin_sz> the trace should look like the lower one
[20:38:52] <Jymmmm> alex_joni EW
[20:38:58] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: why ew?
[20:39:06] <Jymmmm> the belt wa giving it some dampening.
[20:39:12] <Jymmmm> alex_joni the clod heat thing.
[20:39:16] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: why ew?
[20:39:42] <alex_joni> sure beats dragging extension cords around factories...
[20:39:44] <Jymmmm> alex_joni too many cheesy "AS SEEN ON TV" commercials here
[20:39:53] <alex_joni> I have a gas one, but it's not that great
[20:40:05] <Jymmmm> ditto
[20:40:18] <alex_joni> actually the gas sux
[20:40:29] <anonimasu> http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/images/cnc-router-KG-3925-K2cnc%2022.jpg
[20:40:35] <anonimasu> whoops..
[20:40:37] <robin_sz> alex_joni, if the signal looks liek the upper trace, then it can be recovered inthe rx by the clamping .. BUT if it goes throug a non-linear stage at all, ie clips a bit or distorts, well , the hum bars get stuck in the signal and cant be clamped out
[20:40:43] <robin_sz> alex_joni, http://www.elecdesign.com/Files/29/6312/Figure_02.gif
[20:40:49] <robin_sz> alex_joni, 'k?
[20:41:22] <alex_joni> right
[20:41:36] <Jymmmm> I'm gonna do a dry run (no spindle) and see what happens. bbiab
[20:41:43] <alex_joni> so the bottom trace there is how it should ideally be?
[20:41:47] <robin_sz> yes
[20:42:04] <alex_joni> right.. makes sense
[20:42:04] <robin_sz> actually, that signal is inverted on the lower trace ...
[20:42:06] <tomp> upper was 60hz (or 50 )
[20:42:25] <tomp> ?
[20:42:37] <robin_sz> tomp, cant tell
[20:42:44] <alex_joni> 2ms / div
[20:42:55] <alex_joni> 4.something divs
[20:42:58] <robin_sz> 50 or 60 on a 50 or 60hz video signal
[20:43:05] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeah, that
[20:43:36] <robin_sz> you see the field balnking interval, just above the first V of the first 1V?
[20:43:45] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:43:55] <robin_sz> the lower trace is inverted
[20:44:04] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:44:12] <robin_sz> and its probably color bars :)
[20:44:15] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, robin_sz, guys, thanks for the help earlier.
[20:44:26] <SWPadnos> sure. just remember my fee
[20:44:25] <robin_sz> np
[20:44:44] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, hugs and kisses? I thought we could defer that indefinately.
[20:45:04] <SWPadnos> I agree. it's Rodney's I'm talking about
[20:45:23] <a-l-p-h-a> indefinitely
[20:45:32] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, pussy shaped food... I see.
[20:45:40] <SWPadnos> smells bad too
[20:46:12] <a-l-p-h-a> hahahaha... oh. gah. First time I had osyters with this girl... "oh! wow, that one sure looks like... umm. nm"... then she kicked me under the table.
[20:46:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:47:02] <a-l-p-h-a> I was going to do that last night with my GF, but then I didn't want to get her annoyed at me for later. ;)
[20:47:02] <alex_joni> lol
[20:47:26] <a-l-p-h-a> the oysters were stuff, and grilled... they were yummy as hell.
[20:47:57] <a-l-p-h-a> okay... who here knows what an "up-talker" is?
[20:48:11] <cradek> oh I do
[20:48:26] <a-l-p-h-a> up-talking, is when you raise the pitch, at the end of every sentence. Makes you sound completely stupid, and always asking questions.
[20:49:40] <alex_joni> a-l-p-h-a: right
[20:49:43] <cradek> up-talking is when you raise the pitch ok? like at the end of every sentence? it makes you sound stupid?
[20:49:54] <a-l-p-h-a> Some fucked up reason, last night, the hostest, put my GF and I, beside these two annoy as hell 18 yr old girls. One was ugly, the other I don't know... she looked good... but anywyas... "oh-my-god, like, here's my phone?" "oh-gawd, timmies like 23?'
[20:50:10] <a-l-p-h-a> "oh-umm-like-yeah?"
[20:50:30] <cradek> 18 is too old for that
[20:50:48] <a-l-p-h-a> seriously... if I could get away of smashing their heads against the table, and not be charged, or have reprocusions... I would have gladdly done it.
[20:51:20] <cradek> it's best not to admit those thoughts
[20:51:56] <a-l-p-h-a> I haven't dated a girl that spoke that way since I was 22, and she was 18. Only because she was in university, and hot as hell.
[20:52:17] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, I didn't say I'd kill them... just knock some sense into them.
[20:52:37] <a-l-p-h-a> it couldn't cause any more damage in their empty heads.
[20:52:54] <a-l-p-h-a> if assault is illegal, then this ... oh wait... it is illegal.
[20:53:52] <alex_joni> robin_sz: this one looks like mine: http://shop.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=7513
[20:54:09] <a-l-p-h-a> Also, if anyone out there has a skin complextion issues... don't cover it with makeup. Use some medication, and/or wash your face more often. Make-up-face, is so unattractive.
[20:55:36] <cradek> um, thanks for that advice
[20:56:31] <a-l-p-h-a> Sorry, the women at the other table, on the other side from the brain-dead-18-yr-olds, had makeup face.
[20:56:50] <a-l-p-h-a> dinner was enjoyable, just not the people at that restaurant.
[20:56:55] <Jymmmm> a-l-p-h-a: you mean they spray on makeup =)
[20:57:11] <tomp> tammy-fay-face
[20:57:13] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymmmm, I dunno what... it was nasty... she has blemishs all over.
[20:57:26] <robin_sz> alex_joni, I thnk my first attack would be better PSU and check the cable continuity
[20:57:28] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, don't you have beardface? so it'd hide you well enough.
[20:57:34] <robin_sz> maybe the screen is poor
[20:57:46] <robin_sz> or find some PSF1/2 :)
[20:58:14] <alex_joni> PSF1/2 ?
[20:58:22] <a-l-p-h-a> can't find that cnc fest picture now
[20:58:25] <robin_sz> nice video cable :)
[20:58:33] <alex_joni> robin_sz: it's 2 cameras on the same PSU, both same behaviour, so I really think it's the PSU
[20:58:39] <alex_joni> I put in some RG6 coax
[20:58:43] <SWPLinux> a-l-p-h-a: some people have issues that there aren't medications for, and they cover them up because people think they look bad - people like you're being now, complaining about "makeup-face"
[20:59:25] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, :( okay... I'm being too evil, and shallow. I should stop.
[20:59:33] <SWPLinux> sounds like a good plan :)
[20:59:37] <robin_sz> http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_36-362_2006909.aspx
[20:59:52] <robin_sz> alex_joni, is the PSU near the PC or near the cameras?
[21:00:13] <alex_joni> near the PC
[21:00:39] <robin_sz> alex_joni, well, what about using one of the disc drive connectors in the PC to supply the 12V?
[21:00:58] <alex_joni> yeah, I'll try that
[21:01:41] <alex_joni> robin_sz: is there such a think as type A video coax ?
[21:01:56] <robin_sz> dunno
[21:01:58] <SWPLinux> RG6 quad shield
[21:02:05] <SWPLinux> heh heh
[21:02:09] <robin_sz> I was a BBC teechnician ... we used PSF numbers
[21:02:20] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: what?
[21:02:44] <SWPLinux> that's probably the American name for the nice cable robin is suggesting
[21:03:26] <robin_sz> PSF1/2 is a dual woven shield cable, solid polytehene inner,
[21:03:29] <alex_joni> Impedanta=75ohm, atenuare=1.9dB/100m la 5,5MHz
[21:03:36] <alex_joni> that's the cable I have
[21:03:42] <robin_sz> the weave onthe shields is very very thick
[21:03:50] <alex_joni> this is 60% weave
[21:03:50] <robin_sz> nice
[21:03:52] <SWPLinux> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/rg6.htm
[21:04:08] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: yeah, I know
[21:04:11] <alex_joni> it's cable size..
[21:04:14] <SWPLinux> sort of
[21:04:39] <SWPLinux> there's no rhyme or reason to the numbering scheme, but otherwise it's bandwidth
[21:04:55] <Jymmmm> http://belden.com/03Products/03_Coaxial.cfm
[21:05:43] <alex_joni> might be this one: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/technicaldocs/1694tech.htm
[21:05:45] <Jymmmm> http://belden.com/pdfs/Cable101/coaxrefc.pdf
[21:07:13] <alex_joni> robin_sz: anyways, it's not a cheapish cable
[21:07:55] <alex_joni> at least doesn't feel like one
[21:09:31] <robin_sz> then time to start pushing wires in plugs ...
[21:09:43] <alex_joni> will do when I'm back at work
[21:09:54] <alex_joni> 11pm saturday.. not the place I want to be atm
[21:10:40] <robin_sz> ah, that camera is at work?
[21:10:45] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:11:16] <robin_sz> running 'motion'?
[21:18:58] <tomp> alex_joni: are you trying ir filming? i ran across some info while looking into ftir ( google iBar reactable ftir... ) people were removing the lenses from similar cameras and placing an ir - pass filter over it. trick was they used the ends of slide film, its a pretty ggod ir-pass filter.
[21:22:57] <alex_joni> robin_sz: motion detection you mean?
[21:22:58] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:22:58] <alex_joni> but the lines are under the treshold so far ;)
[21:22:58] <alex_joni> at least the ones in daylight.. no idea about the IR ones
[21:28:38] <anonimasu> iab
[21:31:45] <a-l-p-h-a> I just realized!
[21:31:55] <a-l-p-h-a> bluetooth is like a star trek TNG, communicator..
[21:32:21] <a-l-p-h-a> lerneaen_hydra, you kicking? ut99?
[21:38:23] <SWPadnos> Uhura had a Bluetooth earpiece in TOS ;)
[21:39:39] <Rugludallur> jepler: you still around ?
[21:57:27] <Jymmmm> a-l-p-h-a: Since when does bluetooth "communicate" from planet surface to orbiting ship 40K+ feet up?
[21:57:50] <SWPadnos> that'll be invented in 2109
[21:57:52] <SWPadnos> oops
[21:58:17] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos lets hope not
[21:58:28] <SWPadnos> what -you want 2009?
[21:58:47] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos never
[21:58:56] <Jymmmm> Big Brother
[21:59:03] <SWPadnos> oh, and 40k feet isn't orbital :)
[21:59:11] <Jymmmm> Big Brother LoJack your ass - literally
[21:59:18] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos 40K+
[21:59:26] <SWPadnos> that's what the fine tuned Phasers are for :)
[21:59:28] <jmkasunich> 400K maybe
[21:59:35] <SWPadnos> that's closer
[21:59:40] <Jymmmm> I never said plus what =)
[21:59:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:00:00] <SWPadnos> +exponent(2)
[22:00:14] <Jymmmm> plus comma, plus a zero, etc
[22:11:05] <jlmjvm> does anyone here know anything about the transformers in a bridgeport mill,boss series
[22:11:17] <SWPadnos> they're big
[22:11:20] <SWPadnos> :)
[22:11:25] <Jymmmm> they're heavy
[22:11:28] <jlmjvm> u got that right
[22:11:36] <SWPadnos> oh, and they're probably 3-phase as well
[22:11:42] <SWPadnos> at least a couple of them
[22:11:44] <Jymmmm> and run on electricity
[22:11:49] <jlmjvm> the main 1 is
[22:12:07] <SWPadnos> are you looking for specs or general info?
[22:12:06] <jlmjvm> dont think the others are
[22:12:11] <SWPadnos> ok
[22:12:20] <SWPadnos> I've never seen one, so I'm not really of much help there
[22:12:27] <jlmjvm> general info really
[22:12:51] <jlmjvm> was wondering if i could use em for something
[22:13:04] <jlmjvm> but i dont have 3 phase
[22:13:10] <SWPadnos> yep - motors or other stuff like that
[22:13:30] <SWPadnos> you can make a rotary phase converter pretty easily if you have a spare 3-phase motor sitting around
[22:13:31] <jlmjvm> yep
[22:14:29] <Rugludallur> If you don't mind the 30-40% power loss you can run the motor with a capacitor
[22:14:52] <jlmjvm> i have a phase convertor for my spindle
[22:15:00] <Jymmmm> Yep, got a spare one right here next to my zepplin
[22:15:55] <Jymmmm> my zeeplin full of juice prime rib roast that is
[22:16:20] <jlmjvm> ive never been able to find any documentation on this
[22:17:29] <Jymmmm> like this? http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/phase-converter.html
[22:18:38] <SWPadnos> that's what I based my design on
[22:19:12] <Jymmmm> so you take a 1ph motor connect it to a 3ph motor and ???
[22:19:24] <SWPadnos> btu I have a contactor and overloads in there
[22:19:27] <SWPadnos> well, no
[22:19:34] <SWPadnos> there's no 1-ph motor involved
[22:19:39] <jlmjvm> thats a cool setup
[22:20:25] <SWPadnos> I made mine so the E-Stop switch lights when the switch is out (enabled), then the start switch turns on when it's running
[22:20:38] <SWPadnos> I put a time delay relay on the start caps
[22:21:14] <SWPadnos> plus the needed miscellaneous transformers for the contactor coil and lights
[22:21:31] <SWPadnos> I may even have a PDF of the ladder logic diagram (and it may even be relatively acurate)
[22:22:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe not
[22:22:36] <jlmjvm> whats the best way to learn ladder logic
[22:22:41] <SWPadnos> run away screaming
[22:22:48] <SWPadnos> err - I think it varies
[22:22:53] <alex_joni> start with valium
[22:23:00] <jlmjvm> been in cnc for 25 yrs,cant make sense of it
[22:23:03] <alex_joni> then go over to xanax
[22:23:07] <jlmjvm> lol
[22:23:17] <jlmjvm> we may be on to something
[22:23:20] <SWPadnos> I downloaded a few programs with trial versions (Windows only) and played with them
[22:23:35] <SWPadnos> how familiar are you with normal electrical schematics?
[22:23:57] <tomp> if you want to learn plc control... you dont have to use ladder, there's other languages
[22:24:14] <jlmjvm> pretty much a nube,been in electricity for a little over a year
[22:24:27] <SWPadnos> ok. you can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_logic
[22:24:49] <SWPadnos> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_6/1.html
[22:25:08] <jlmjvm> thanks
[22:25:14] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:25:35] <SWPadnos> don't get discouraged if it makes no sense for a while
[22:25:47] <SWPadnos> just keep the bottle of Bailey's handy ;)
[22:26:26] <Jymmmm> There REALLY is an Emergency bottle of tequilia above my monitor =)
[22:26:48] <jlmjvm> my last name is Martini,lol
[22:29:08] <robin_sz> m mbaileys
[22:29:15] <robin_sz> i have some right here!
[22:29:40] <SWPadnos> I tried the new flavors at Heathrow - the chocolate mint is actually pretty good
[22:29:43] <SWPadnos> caramel sucks though
[22:29:55] <tomp> if you want some info on the ladder used by/with emc http://users.teledisnet.be/web/rlo05343/umanual/umanual_for_classicladder.html
[22:30:05] <SWPadnos> they had them at Costco in Reading - I should have gotten some
[22:30:20] <robin_sz> ooh phase converotrs!
[22:30:58] <robin_sz> you can buy them in auctions from time to time ...
[22:31:04] <robin_sz> antique auctions :)
[22:32:10] <robin_sz> vfds are so cheap now ..,. I picked up a 2hp on ebay for £20 a while ago
[22:32:34] <jlmjvm> i was lookin at 1 on ebay the other day for 200 bucks
[22:32:43] <robin_sz> bit pricy .. was that new?
[22:32:45] <SWPadnos> eek. wait a bit for less
[22:32:59] <jlmjvm> it was a nice hitachi
[22:33:03] <robin_sz> $100 max for a 2hp these days
[22:33:09] <jlmjvm> really
[22:33:15] <SWPadnos> I got a new Mitsubishi 1.5HP for $130 delivered, and an AB 1 HP for $80 or so
[22:33:23] <jlmjvm> wow
[22:33:28] <robin_sz> yeah, if you wait for a 2nd user one
[22:33:30] <jlmjvm> glad i waited
[22:33:45] <robin_sz> $200 is good for new price though
[22:33:48] <SWPadnos> one trick: try searching for slight misspellings of the thing you're looking for
[22:33:53] <robin_sz> heh
[22:34:09] <SWPadnos> I always search for bridgeport *or* bridgport when looking for accessories
[22:34:17] <robin_sz> I really cant understand how they still sell phase convertors these dyas
[22:34:33] <jlmjvm> i bought 1 last year
[22:34:37] <SWPadnos> I think the Mits I got had frequency misspelled as "frequeacy" or something
[22:35:01] <robin_sz> when a VFD gives you cotnrolled starts and stops, reversing, vari-speed, etc etc
[22:35:38] <robin_sz> heh
[22:36:01] <SWPadnos> the VFD can only drive one motor, and needs other things to work (such as controls, usually)
[22:36:11] <robin_sz> well, a 3 way switch ...
[22:36:14] <jlmjvm> turns single phase to 3 phase,f &r,program start
[22:36:14] <robin_sz> fwd, stop, rev
[22:36:16] <SWPadnos> I have a mill, bandsaw, and bench grinder that all run off one phase converter
[22:36:23] <SWPadnos> and I expect to add a lathe
[22:36:40] <robin_sz> 4 vfds :)
[22:36:49] <SWPadnos> also, the VFD I got doesn't happen to say that it'll work on 1 phase ;)
[22:37:04] <SWPadnos> hmmm. or one phase converter at $100 or so total ...
[22:37:07] <jlmjvm> the 1 i was looking at did
[22:37:17] <SWPadnos> the phase converter lets me be lazy doing conversions ;)
[22:37:48] <robin_sz> I think they are all ok, but I have a much better solution
[22:38:14] <SWPadnos> get 3-phase service?
[22:38:20] <robin_sz> yep
[22:38:23] <tomp> only the lower power units allow 1 phase ( cuz 1 phase is suited to low power... like 110 outlet is rated 12-15A max... )
[22:39:03] <tomp> so 400W may be near tops for 1 phase vfd
[22:39:18] <robin_sz> nah
[22:39:25] <SWPadnos> well, I ran a 40A 240V service to my garage, so I don't have too low a limitation
[22:39:35] <jlmjvm> this was a 2 hp hitachi,single or 3 phase 220 input,3 phase output
[22:39:37] <robin_sz> I have a 2.2kw vfd ...
[22:39:57] <tomp> single phase?
[22:40:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:40:11] <tomp> wicked
[22:40:38] <SWPadnos> robin is in England though, where the voltage is about double ;)
[22:40:46] <SWPadnos> (like the pound :( )
[22:40:50] <robin_sz> even so,
[22:40:52] <tomp> watts is watts ( VxA )
[22:41:05] <robin_sz> they do 5kw ones from 240V
[22:41:08] <SWPadnos> sure, but current limits are only one part of it :)
[22:41:21] <robin_sz> so 2.5kw should be OK from 110 surely?
[22:41:28] <tomp> :)
[22:41:33] <robin_sz> and anyway ...
[22:41:44] <robin_sz> it will be more efficient than a phase convertor
[22:42:10] <robin_sz> so if you wanted to run 3hp off 110v, a vfd will be kinder on the fuse than a phase convertor
[22:42:26] <robin_sz> and you can set slow accels to ramp it in nicely
[22:42:36] <robin_sz> DC injection braking?
[22:43:12] <Rugludallur> What do you guys figure is the least cpu intensive method of creating a 15kHz signal to a parport pin ?
[22:43:39] <tomp> turning on a signal generator :)
[22:43:40] <robin_sz> umm .. a 74LS nand gate and a resistor and a capacitor?
[22:43:58] <Rugludallur> Creating a new RT thread with fp at 30000 is just sucking up way to much juice
[22:44:16] <Rugludallur> tomp: and siggen requires fp :(
[22:44:20] <robin_sz> software step generation sucketh
[22:44:27] <robin_sz> I know ...
[22:44:34] <SWPLinux> do you need sine waves?
[22:44:39] <cradek> what threads do you have?
[22:44:43] <Rugludallur> SWPLinux: nope, just 0 and 1
[22:44:47] <robin_sz> connect one of Rays off board pulse gens ..
[22:44:49] <tomp> not a soft gen a box with a signal generator ( was a joke )
[22:45:03] <SWPLinux> from a comparator?
[22:45:03] <robin_sz> or a gecko g-rex :)
[22:45:26] <SWPLinux> Rugludallur: how about freqgen?
[22:45:30] <Rugludallur> SWPLinux: I hooked the siggen up to a comp and put that on the parport pin, takes up to much juice
[22:45:40] <SWPLinux> sure
[22:45:51] <Rugludallur> SWPLinux: I used freqgen before, that is less intensive but I still have to create that damn RT thread
[22:46:01] <Rugludallur> cradek: which threads am I using ?
[22:46:13] <cradek> yeah do you have one twice that fast for instance?
[22:46:18] <SWPLinux> err - which one? you always need at least one and if you're running EMC, you likely have 3
[22:46:27] <jtr> Does the freq need to be variable? or is this just to keep a charge pump alive?
[22:46:28] <cradek> you can get a square wave by hooking an inverter to itself
[22:46:37] <Rugludallur> cradek: nope, sorry the only one I have that is < 30000 is the base thread and that's not fp
[22:46:44] <SWPLinux> that's OK
[22:46:47] <cradek> you don't need FP
[22:46:51] <SWPLinux> you dont need FP for a fixed freq
[22:46:57] <Rugludallur> cradek: siggen requires fp
[22:47:03] <cradek> you don't need siggen
[22:47:05] <SWPLinux> even if the freq needs to change from time to time, it can still be done without FP
[22:47:36] <SWPLinux> this is the code you need to make a squarewave at 1/2 the thread frequency: out=!out
[22:47:53] <Rugludallur> SWPLinux/Cradek: ahh get your point , just create a thread with 1/2 the freq. and inverter :D
[22:47:55] <cradek> and you can do that with the not block
[22:48:03] <SWPLinux> or with chargepump
[22:48:12] <SWPLinux> (I think)
[22:48:21] <cradek> right, there is a chargepump now
[22:48:25] <cradek> forgot about that
[22:48:32] <Rugludallur> cradek:SWPLinux: brilliant, exactly what I was thinking :D
[22:48:41] <SWPLinux> FUNCTION(_) { out = !out; }
[22:48:58] <Rugludallur> cradek: I noticed the chargepump but there wasn't much documentation and I didn't quite understand the functionality
[22:49:12] <Rugludallur> (this is for a chargepump signal btw)
[22:49:16] <SWPLinux> if you need a variable frequency, it's a little more complicated
[22:49:18] <SWPLinux> ok
[22:49:33] <SWPLinux> then the chargepump comp would probably be appropriate ;)
[22:49:42] <Rugludallur> SWPLinux: for sure :D
[22:49:51] <cradek> haha
[22:54:12] <alex_joni> cradek: what's so funny?
[22:54:31] <cradek> that Rugludallur should maybe try using the chargepump block to make a charge pump
[22:57:28] <alex_joni> heh
[22:58:49] <Rugludallur> cradek: I tried using the charge_pump before but I figured it was not complete since "loadrt charge_pump" causes errors on start, and without any documentation .. I gave up :(
[22:59:54] <alex_joni> odd.. it shouldn't error
[23:00:19] <SWPadnos> it depends on where you stick the connections ...
[23:00:21] <Rugludallur> hmm 2 out of 3 it fails ... does not happen every time it seems (I re-enabled it and tried starting)
[23:00:32] <SWPadnos> what's the exact error you get?
[23:00:34] <Rugludallur> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.12-magma/kernel/adeos/adeos.ko': -1 File exists
[23:00:36] <cradek> there's documentation at 'man charge_pump'
[23:00:47] <SWPadnos> you're already trunning something RT
[23:01:01] <SWPadnos> (or there's something else wrong)
[23:01:13] <SWPadnos> dmesg is probably going to be more instructive
[23:01:19] <alex_joni> sounds like there's an older emc2 around
[23:01:30] <alex_joni> try restarting.. usually a failed start cleans up pretty well
[23:01:44] <Rugludallur> thx
[23:02:26] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: I'm not able to reproduce atm so I probably don't need to restart :D
[23:03:19] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: I mean restart emc2
[23:03:27] <alex_joni> _not_ the PC
[23:03:34] <alex_joni> you should never need to restart the PC
[23:05:58] <Rugludallur> I don't know if I'm to thick or what but how would you tell the charge_pump block which frequency to run at ?
[23:07:04] <alex_joni> it depends on the thread it's running in
[23:07:28] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: fix circular move "task issue" debug output
[23:07:29] <CIA-6> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.cc: fix circular move "task issue" debug output
[23:07:33] <alex_joni> so you need to create a new thread with the frequency you need (actually twice that)
[23:07:53] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: I got that part, but is there then a way to specify which thread to use when you use loadrt ?
[23:09:35] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: normal way to attach to a thread would be something like addf charge_pump.0 threadname
[23:09:55] <cradek> that's exactly how you do it
[23:10:15] <robin_sz> alex_joni> you should never need to restart the PC
[23:10:20] <robin_sz> well said
[23:11:06] <Rugludallur> robin_sz: <- still runs kernel v. 2.2 just to prove that :D
[23:13:18] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: I still have a 2.2.13 at work
[23:13:45] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: lol :D
[23:14:09] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: well.. it's down now, but it still works great
[23:21:11] <Rugludallur> This new charge-pump block rules :D (the problem was a pebkac)
[23:23:25] <anonimasu> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/tuxcnc/