#emc | Logs for 2007-02-13

[00:00:24] <robin_sz> anonimasu, I usually dont use the manufacturers part number as the part name, becuase often I will create a part (say a pulley) and then create several cofnigurations of it ... each one a different size and a different part number ... set the part number as a property ... that way it shows up automatically in the part number box in a drawing
[00:00:33] <robin_sz> and in bill of matirls lists
[00:00:38] <robin_sz> materials
[02:31:29] <ejholmgren> a pedro?
[02:31:40] <ejholmgren> ape like digital readout?
[02:46:54] <jmkasunich> even after the transient settles out, the output accel is banging back and forth against the limit, the output vel is a triangle
[02:47:33] <Guest647> :)
[02:47:38] <Guest647> oh
[02:47:44] <jmkasunich> oops, wrong channel
[02:47:56] <Guest647> Guest647 is now known as skunkworks
[03:19:37] <ds3> Hmmm
[03:49:39] <ds3> anyone know how to find a leak in a vacuum table?
[03:52:37] <jmkasunich> walk around with a cigarette and see if something sucks in smoke?
[03:55:09] <ds3> Hmmmmmm that's an improvement (and actually reasonable) from the other answer I heard... propane (bunch of engine heads)
[03:57:46] <skunkworks> I was thinking ether. but didn't want to say it out loud. (in the back of my head I would think it would raise the vaccum gauge.) but I like the smoke idea better.
[06:27:02] <tomp> hello, the apt cam system puts out gcode fieles that can be used with emc. but I had to hand edit 2 things. 1) the beginning % sign came >after< a time stamp comment, and emc/axis didnt like that, swapping them made it happy,. I think thats wrong. comments before code is common. 2) M02 was missing, fixed in the apt file. comments? thanks
[06:27:41] <tomp> fieles/files
[06:31:38] <tomp> 3, 3 things ( spanish inquisition) there is no feedrate in some files tested... unfixed now, not automated yet
[07:04:21] <K`zan> Night folks, rest well.
[09:58:26] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, that's overkill for lots of drawings..
[13:15:38] <jepler> tomp: % is a stupid thing to use in g-code in <checks date> 2007. fix your g-code generator, you have the source.
[13:19:40] <cradek> if there are any, ngc requires the % be the first and last things in the file, or if neither is there, a M2/M30 is required
[13:34:47] <skunkworks> doesn't axis let you load it anyways? just prompts you about it?
[13:45:54] <jepler> axis would only load up to the error, which would be the % after the leading comments
[13:51:53] <rafa> hello friends
[14:01:56] <rafa> how install interface axis for source-code?
[14:02:14] <rafa> because axis no in source-code of emc 2.1
[14:21:14] <jepler> I've been messing with having ttt use arcs rather than lines to approximate the shape of the truetype letters: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/ttt-arcs.ngc it looks just as good with about 50% as many lines of g-code (and thus each movement being on average twice as long)
[14:25:27] <jepler> my method is rather suspect, though: just assume that, unless they're colinear, three successive points are all on the same arc
[14:26:15] <jepler> the points come from interpolation of the spline at fixed 't' values, just like they do in ttt already
[14:28:07] <cradek> I think those results look really good
[14:28:15] <cradek> I can't see any corners
[14:31:54] <cradek> how do you chose the number of arcs?
[14:32:20] <cradek> in the e there are some very tiny arcs
[14:32:33] <cradek> by the left bottom of the flat
[14:33:26] <jepler> 08:26:16 <jepler> the points come from interpolation of the spline at fixed 't' values, just like they do in ttt already
[14:33:47] <cradek> oh ok
[14:33:59] <cradek> there must be a tiny one in the font then
[14:35:37] <jepler> I reduced the number of points per spline even further and it still looks good. new ttt output: 260 lines. Original: 1023
[14:36:09] <cradek> I'm not surprised since I don't see anything like corners in this one
[14:37:34] <cradek> strange - in that spot on the e, the spline curves the other way
[14:37:42] <cradek> seems like a bug in the font
[14:39:09] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/ttt.c -- use it if you want it
[14:39:14] <a-l-p-h-a> cradek, do you have some spare time? I'm learning trying to learn django... (python framework)...
[14:39:33] <a-l-p-h-a> I'm kinda looking and trying to see how I can do things...
[14:39:50] <jepler> bah
[14:39:50] <a-l-p-h-a> specifically syntax for now...
[14:39:53] <cradek> I'm probably useless for that
[14:39:53] <jepler> I've never met a framework I like
[14:40:03] <cradek> what's a framework?
[14:40:17] <a-l-p-h-a> jepler, django has a nice and quick way of making administrative backend applications.
[14:40:17] <jepler> cradek: it's a big library you'll never fully understand
[14:40:31] <a-l-p-h-a> okay... forget about the framework for now.
[14:40:39] <a-l-p-h-a> I'm looking to see basic syntax structures.
[14:42:55] <jepler> like the stuff that is in the python tutorial?
[14:43:19] <a-l-p-h-a> http://pastebin.ca/353671
[14:43:21] <a-l-p-h-a> where the python tutorial?
[14:43:23] <jepler> it gives examples of a lot of the statements here: http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html
[14:44:43] <jepler> you would learn the answer to most of those things in the tutorial. There's no switch/case in python (use if/elseif instead), and nothing quite like the ternary operator (except maybe in python2.5)
[14:45:27] <cradek> the tutorial is worth it
[14:45:48] <cradek> elif
[14:45:58] <jepler> cradek:er yes
[14:46:05] <cradek> (pet peeve)
[14:46:16] <a-l-p-h-a> looking at the tutorial... 1/2way through it
[14:46:21] <a-l-p-h-a> nice and condensed... I like it.
[14:46:29] <a-l-p-h-a> however, any raw inputs wouldn't be useful to me.
[14:46:39] <a-l-p-h-a> I need to know how to handle input from <input> tags from html.
[14:46:42] <jepler> and I'd have gotten that right if only I'd read the tutorial
[14:48:12] <jepler> a-l-p-h-a: more than likely, django will put all the data on the form in a data structure like the 'dictionary': http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007500000000000000000
[14:49:06] <a-l-p-h-a> jepler, thanks!
[14:49:38] <a-l-p-h-a> the python language isn't too ugly...
[14:55:37] <a-l-p-h-a> python also have a GUI toolkit as well?
[14:55:59] <a-l-p-h-a> like, able to make graphical apps?
[14:59:41] <jepler> it has a ton of them
[15:00:04] <a-l-p-h-a> any nice IDE? Interactive Development Environment?
[15:00:15] <jepler> you're asking the wrong person -- I think a nice IDE is vim and a shell
[15:00:47] <a-l-p-h-a> I use a syntax highlighting editor myself... BUT... the IDE would help a ton in making nicer looking applications
[15:01:14] <cradek> in other company I'd say "troll"
[15:01:34] <a-l-p-h-a> :P
[15:04:01] <jepler> a-l-p-h-a: I don't know enough about pygtk or pyqt to say for sure, but I assume you can use the GUI design tools that are commonly associated with gtk (glade) or qt (qt designer) with the python versions of the libraries
[15:04:28] <a-l-p-h-a> okie
[15:41:19] <rafa> hi
[15:41:32] <rafa> i need install axis interface
[15:41:44] <rafa> no axis in sources of 2.1
[15:41:54] <rafa> how install axis?
[15:42:04] <rafa> my sistem no ubuntu!
[15:42:25] <rafa> i compliled in slack and function ok
[15:42:36] <rafa> but i need axis
[15:44:54] <rafa> please friends
[15:51:45] <cradek> AXIS is in the 2.1 source distribution
[15:51:51] <cradek> if it did not build, you are missing dependencies
[15:52:01] <cradek> read the configure output to figure out what they are
[16:12:16] <tomp> hello, the apt cam system puts out gcode files that emc can use, but needs some tweaking. One thing was apt made a beginning % sign that came >after< a time stamp comment, and emc/axis didnt like that. Swapping them made it happy. I think anything should be allowed before %. Text before gcode is traditional on printout and papertape. comments? thanks
[16:14:54] <cradek> that's not allowed by ngc
[16:14:58] <cradek> let me find you the reference
[16:15:47] <cradek> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.web/RS274NGC_33a.html#1001702
[16:15:49] <SWPadnos> I think tomp mentioned that axis/emc barfed on it ("didn't like that")
[16:15:53] <SWPadnos> oops
[16:16:48] <cradek> yes, because it's an invalid ngc program
[16:17:37] <tomp> ok, if its a rule, just not what a lot of the cnc community wold do. users traditionally put info before the gcode in files, and used 'man readables' on paper tape. tanks
[16:18:47] <cradek> I agree you'd want to have stuff before the % on tape - but the ngc interpreter explicitly deals with "files" not tape
[16:19:09] <SWPadnos> actually, the older machines would just ignore anything before the first "%"
[16:19:16] <SWPadnos> and stop at the second one
[16:19:18] <cradek> yes
[16:19:23] <cradek> I agree you need that with tape
[16:20:15] <SWPadnos> I guess the problem with doing that is that you can now have no %, and end with M2 or M30 - so you can't tell which kind of file you're looking at until it ends
[16:20:27] <cradek> yep
[16:21:01] <cradek> it seems from reading the spec that ngc accepts files starting and ending with % as a courtesy - it doesn't mean we should still write them that way
[16:21:16] <SWPadnos> right
[16:21:33] <SWPadnos> though a program that generates G-code should, so the code can be used on older machines
[16:21:52] <tomp> you still need a beginning % and ending h% ( or 'h' for ebdic ). we fixed it in the apt output, i was thinking it was a bad fix. no biggee, but watch out reading those papertapes at the fest :)
[16:22:16] <SWPadnos> I read paper tape like braille
[16:22:24] <jepler> if your g-code target is emc2 then don't use % at all
[16:22:25] <SWPadnos> (I'm illiterate in both ;) )
[16:22:44] <jepler> if you want to include human-readable information, enclose it in () to make it a comment
[16:23:45] <cradek> I wonder if % was chosen because it doesn't happen to appear in that human-readable-when-punched alphabet
[16:24:28] <cradek> 0x25 - I bet it doesn't
[16:26:17] <SWPadnos> it may be because a space (0x20) could look like noise, and the 0x25 pattern gives you several single-bit transitions for baud detection
[16:26:22] <SWPadnos> not that old systems did baudd etection
[16:27:02] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[16:27:17] <SWPadnos> hi
[16:27:53] <cradek> I bet 0x20 would be used in W/V
[16:28:04] <cradek> J
[16:28:06] <SWPadnos> West Virginia?
[16:28:39] <cradek> N
[16:28:51] <cradek> * cradek hits google
[16:29:48] <jepler> fwiw here's an awk program that prints only the first %-delimited part of the input:
[16:29:53] <jepler> #!/usr/bin/awk -f
[16:29:54] <jepler> er oops
[16:29:58] <jepler> BEGIN { state = 0 }
[16:30:00] <jepler> /^%$/ { print; state++; if(state == 2) exit; next; }
[16:30:03] <jepler> /./ { if(state) print; }
[16:30:04] <jepler> #!/usr/bin/awk -f
[16:30:04] <jepler> BEGIN { state = 0 }
[16:30:04] <jepler> /^%$/ { print; state++; if(state == 2) exit; next; }
[16:30:06] <jepler> /./ { if(state) print; }
[16:31:31] <tomp> man readables on punched tape ( just wondered if it was on the web someplace ) http://www.dancad3d.com/640/P0900750.GIF the holes are grouped to look like english letters
[16:32:08] <cradek> yes that's what I was talking about
[16:32:21] <cradek> 0x20 would be used for some letters, but not 0x25 I bet
[16:34:14] <jepler> I wonder if 0x28 or 0x29 would be used -- if not you can get perfectly good man-readables inside (...)
[16:34:47] <cradek> I bet you could design an alphabet to avoid anything you need it to...
[16:35:00] <SWPadnos> they're using the 0x10 bit for horizontals on the human-readable characters
[16:35:10] <SWPadnos> so nothing with 0x2x in it would be used, it seems
[16:36:04] <cradek> there's an 0xfe right there
[16:36:44] <cradek> I'm surprised they use the 8th bit actually
[16:36:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:36:55] <cradek> I'm not sure my punch even punches all 8
[16:37:30] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is glad we don't need punch tapes anymore.
[16:38:58] <cradek> I'll say this - none of our modern media will be so easily readable in 20 years
[16:39:41] <SWPadnos> heh - stone and paper - that's what we have from the last 5000 years
[16:39:51] <tomp> right, ptape is history, but comments before code can be useful
[16:39:54] <SWPadnos> and wax phonographs from 100 years ago are nearly impossible to read now
[16:40:42] <cradek> SWPadnos: but 100 year old books are fine in everyday use (I have one from the regular public library at home)
[16:41:39] <cradek> it's hard to beat paper for long term storage I guess
[16:41:40] <SWPadnos> exactly - paper is good, and (as you said) most anything "modern" will be nearly impossible to read in 20 years ...
[16:45:14] <tomp> there was a prob as papertape readers moved from mechanical finger or star mechanisms, to optical, then it was found that a dot of oil screwed what was read.(made a 'hole' ), then came floppies, then networks. still comments in files are good, I wonder if ok after M02.
[16:48:44] <SWPadnos> I think emc stops interpreting after M2 (or %, for files that start with %)
[16:55:21] <awallin> anyone know what's the minimum hardware to display some pictures on a monitor over the network ? i.e. I have a 22" 1680x1050 LCD in a remote location (but with ethernet), but I wouldn't like to install a whole computer there... some thin-client that would just display stuff that I sent over the network would be ideal
[16:56:27] <cradek> there are some X stations around, but none of them will drive a screen like that - too old
[16:56:53] <cradek> maybe you want an HP e-pc
[16:56:59] <awallin> anything to tunnel the monitor signal over ethernet?
[16:57:13] <cradek> not that I know of
[16:57:41] <SWPadnos> yes, but it's more expensive than a computer
[16:57:48] <SWPadnos> Matrox Extio
[16:58:51] <SWPadnos> for 1680x1050, it may be possible to use gigabit ethernet and some data format converters to move the image data
[16:59:59] <awallin> wonder what the extio costs?
[17:00:05] <SWPadnos> $2000 or more
[17:00:36] <SWPadnos> how remote is remote? (now many feet of cable)
[17:00:43] <SWPadnos> s/now/how/
[17:01:09] <lerneaen_hydra> afaik DVI can be stretched quite far
[17:01:17] <SWPadnos> and is it CVI or analog?
[17:01:21] <SWPadnos> DVI
[17:01:24] <SWPadnos> damn
[17:01:29] <awallin> something like 10-15m would be enough I think 30-60 feet
[17:01:43] <lerneaen_hydra> that should be doable over DVI afaik
[17:01:46] <awallin> probably DVI
[17:02:02] <awallin> since I think we're getting a new monitor for this
[17:02:06] <SWPadnos> you may be able to use DVI over that distance, but only at low refresh rates
[17:02:29] <SWPadnos> look at products from Gefen for splitters, amplifiers, extenders ...
[17:02:36] <SWPadnos> http://www.gefen.com, I think
[17:02:41] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:02:59] <lerneaen_hydra> if it's DVI then it's also an LCD and refresh won't matter that much
[17:03:13] <lerneaen_hydra> anything >40-ish
[17:03:24] <lerneaen_hydra> probably it'l be 60
[17:04:13] <SWPadnos> the problem will be that the monitor EDID will tell the computer to display some nice high refresh rate, that the card and monitor can both do, but tje longer cable won't handle it
[17:04:49] <awallin> maybe a small computer close to the display is easiest anyway. I was searching for something similar to a mac mini, but a pc. it should be able to display powerpoint's and show videos smoothly
[17:04:55] <SWPadnos> do you want the $300 solution, or the $500 (ethernet) solution?
[17:05:41] <SWPadnos> nevermind - you'd want the cat5 solution for $539 (list)
[17:05:47] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin; why not just salvage an old used computer?
[17:06:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3870
[17:06:20] <awallin> yeah, but I'm not sure I would like a big box with possibly two noisy fans close to where the display is
[17:06:28] <awallin> SWPadnos: thanks, I'll look at that
[17:06:31] <lerneaen_hydra> if you want to display video than anything over network will be difficult
[17:06:44] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin; a PC does not need to be loud
[17:06:46] <SWPadnos> yeah - it really depends on the update rate you want
[17:06:54] <lerneaen_hydra> it's just a matter of planning it correctly
[17:07:28] <SWPadnos> if you need to stream 30 (or 60) FPS video, bandwidth is a problem. if it's just an image every once in a while, then a sff with ethernet PC is probably the best bet
[17:07:33] <lerneaen_hydra> and not buying into the claims of noise on the fan's specs (retail fans all the more so)
[17:07:36] <SWPadnos> sff PC, that is
[17:08:03] <awallin> I was hoping that someone would sell a PC like the mac-mini, at a similar price (500eur or less) that will do video and animations etc
[17:08:20] <SWPadnos> sure - you can get something like that
[17:08:27] <SWPadnos> but maybe not in Sweden ;)
[17:08:27] <lerneaen_hydra> are we talking h.264/ac3 or low-q animations?
[17:09:14] <awallin> hmm, maybe 500kbps quality or so, not fullscreen 1680x1050
[17:09:32] <lerneaen_hydra> 500kbit/s?
[17:09:41] <lerneaen_hydra> h-264 or mpeg4 based?
[17:09:43] <SWPadnos> ah. in that case you're probably best off getting a small PC and using standard ethernet
[17:10:11] <SWPadnos> transmit the low data rate and decode at the monitor
[17:10:29] <awallin> an AOpen MiniPC Duo MP945-VXR is 476eur but it doesn't include a processor, memory, or harddisk. was hoping to get a complete computer for that price
[17:10:51] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO a used computer with a low-heat-output CPU would be a good idea
[17:10:58] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: the codecs would probably vary wildly from no compression at all to standard divx etc
[17:11:17] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin; nothing as exotic as 264 though, right?
[17:11:38] <awallin> this would be to show people walking in the corridor by our lab some of our work
[17:11:43] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO a used computer with a low-heat-output CPU would be a good idea, say PIII coppermine, amd duron/sempron, or a celeron
[17:11:44] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: no
[17:12:17] <awallin> Is there an ITX board with a good enough graphics card to handle this?
[17:12:31] <lerneaen_hydra> possibly, though it won't be cheap
[17:12:39] <lerneaen_hydra> I had a mini-itx (1ghz)
[17:12:51] <SWPadnos> almost anything these days, I'd think. the main problem will be finding an epia board with DVI
[17:12:52] <lerneaen_hydra> the speed was about equivalent to a 400mhz PII
[17:13:12] <lerneaen_hydra> afaik they run at around 3.5k SEK
[17:13:38] <SWPadnos> http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/490
[17:14:18] <lerneaen_hydra> you'll need a pentium m too, they're not cheap :/
[17:14:45] <SWPadnos> http://www.mini-box.com/VIA-EPIA-EN12000EG?sc=8&category=99
[17:14:49] <SWPadnos> with CPU onboard
[17:14:59] <SWPadnos> but you need an external DVI converter board
[17:18:21] <awallin> thanks for the advice guys, I guess we'll go with the 400eur 22" display and a 600eur barebones small-form PC...
[17:19:20] <SWPadnos> if you have the space, I'd look at a SFF PC instead of a mini-ITX system. that is unless you're absolutely sure you will neveer need to upgrade the computer
[17:20:02] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin; are 22" lcd's that cheap?
[17:20:26] <SWPadnos> 1680x1050 is low res for that size, so it should be fairly cheap
[17:21:04] <awallin> viewsonic 22" 1680x1050 is 377eur at verkkokauppa.com + the university doesn't pay VAT...
[17:22:57] <fenn> awallin: you can send a vga signal over the unused wires in an ethernet cable
[17:23:20] <fenn> 15m should be doable at a low refresh rate
[17:23:37] <SWPadnos> other than the fact that the impedance is wrong, and that there aren't enough wires in an ethernet cable, that would be fine :)
[17:24:21] <fenn> well it works, sorry it doesnt allow you to waste a lot of money on it
[17:24:31] <SWPadnos> well, that is one main goal
[17:25:08] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883107251
[17:26:03] <fenn> http://www.geocities.com/dougburbidge/vgaovercat5.html
[17:28:12] <SWPadnos> hmm. he notes that at 15m length, an 800x600 image looks visibly worse than over a "normal" VGA cable
[17:29:04] <fenn> well, its a 20 minute hack if you ask me
[17:29:17] <fenn> worth trying
[17:29:49] <SWPadnos> sure - it'll work with some quality level, but consider that the original question was about a screen with 4x the resolution, and that there is a budget for making it work well
[17:30:06] <SWPadnos> the 20 minute hack isn't necessary in this case
[17:49:52] <xemet> hello
[17:51:40] <skunkworks> how is the joystick coming?
[17:53:03] <xemet> it works
[17:53:25] <tomp> xemet: was that an xbox joystick? or was it usb when you bought it?
[17:53:33] <xemet> usb
[17:53:37] <xemet> on ebay
[17:54:26] <xemet> something like that:
[17:54:26] <xemet> http://cgi.ebay.it/USB-PC-10-Key-Dual-Shock-Game-pad-Controller-joypad-UK_W0QQitemZ280081942898QQihZ018QQcategoryZ74943QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[17:54:56] <tomp> cool, mine has to be hacked from xbox to usb, but it's color for color ( leave the yellow off :)
[17:55:26] <tomp> xbox has weird connector
[17:55:32] <xemet> have you tried it to move the cnc?
[17:55:52] <tomp> nope havent yet
[17:55:54] <xemet> I think I will write a pge in the wiki maybe tomorrow
[17:56:03] <tomp> thanks
[17:56:24] <xemet> now at university I've got this:
[17:56:32] <xemet> http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/spacetec/4000flx.html
[17:56:42] <xemet> spaceball...serial
[17:56:50] <xemet> I wonder if I could use it to control the cnc
[17:57:31] <xemet> there is a driver for linux but I don't know how to get the axis values and report them to hal pins...
[17:57:54] <xemet> I would need something like hal_joystick...
[17:58:23] <SWPadnos> if the driver provides "input events" in a /dev/input/xxx file, then it should work with hal_joystick
[17:58:36] <tomp> cool, reminds me of haptic devices http://blog.richterscale.org/index.php/weblog/novint_falcon_haptic_input_device_to_ship_in_june_2007/ you grab the handle and push in out up down lean rotate...
[17:59:12] <xemet> wow, I will try that...and if id doesn't provide "input events"?
[17:59:25] <SWPadnos> then you're screwed :)
[17:59:27] <xemet> is it impossible to retrieve the axis position values?
[17:59:30] <xemet> well!
[18:00:05] <xemet> yesterday i succeeded in using flipflop
[18:00:11] <SWPadnos> excellent
[18:00:21] <xemet> now I've two button, one sets the scale to 0.1 and one to 0.01
[18:00:47] <xemet> actually I don't know if I've used it in the right manner...it was very simple...
[18:00:56] <Goslowjimbo> Hope you guys can once again come to my rescue. I had many of you help me in coming up with a DRO just a few months ago. Now I don't recall the sequence to start it up again. I have pasted my actions in http://pastebin.ca/353947.
[18:01:23] <xemet> I've linked button1 to set pin and button2 to reset pin
[18:02:09] <tomp> xemet: i thought you would use 1 button and get one of 2 outputs.. oh i see you used the set & reset pins and 2 btns, ok
[18:02:33] <xemet> one give FALSE to the output when it detect a rising event (when I press the button) and the other gives TRUE in the same way...
[18:03:44] <xemet> today I've seen it is possible to do that using only one button
[18:03:52] <xemet> but I've to study it better
[18:04:11] <xemet> I've seen it in the AndersWallin page about the jog wheel in his file jog.hal
[18:05:07] <xemet> he uses only one button to start or stop the flood
[18:05:30] <xemet> using a combination of NOT and AND functions
[18:05:58] <xemet> but he has one pin halui that change the status when flood is on or off
[18:06:43] <skunkworks> with the flip-flop setup correctly - that is how it should work.
[18:06:48] <tomp> i have to learn the components available. i'll look at awallin's hal file. and how it is intitialized to not flood when it wakes up.
[18:08:15] <xemet> I've read it, it seems very simple...I will try tomorrow
[18:08:29] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: looking now
[18:09:17] <xemet> http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/11/jogging-emc2/#more-107
[18:09:44] <tomp> dis i run into this before? try removing the - in the name just to prove me wrong
[18:11:22] <Goslowjimbo> tomp: are you talking to xemet?
[18:12:10] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: sorry, no, for you try removing the -, rename the file ( i may be wrong but it rang a bell )
[18:12:43] <Goslowjimbo> I will, but I thought this is the file that worked 2 months ago.
[18:13:43] <xemet> today I bought a rotary encoder on ebay
[18:14:05] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: ok, its that the error talked about the file as if it had that short name (up to the hyphen )
[18:14:09] <xemet> I will try to build my own jogwheel
[18:14:49] <tomp> xemet: important tactile feedback, is a 'click' on a jog wheel.
[18:16:23] <xemet> I know...
[18:16:58] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: you should not use "sudo" for "realtime start" or "halcmd".
[18:17:26] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: it's possible that "sudo" is messing up the PATH established by scripts/emc-environment, removing the directory where pyvcp should be found.
[18:17:27] <xemet> but I've seen a purpose-made jogwheel on ebay at 149 EUR...
[18:17:35] <xemet> and it is too much for me.
[18:18:06] <xemet> so at the moment I will build my jogwheel and I will build some friction dispositive
[18:18:32] <Goslowjimbo> OK.
[18:21:42] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: i got further than you w/o sudo, but it stopped at loading pyvcp-dro.xml, you having success now?
[18:24:18] <Goslowjimbo> tomp: no, I seem to be stuck halfway with and halfway without rtapi. This is the other opportunity I seem to be bumping into. If I try a halcmd, I get an error saying I don't have rtapi running. If I try a realtime stop, it says rtapi is in use with some of the logic from the previous attempt.
[18:25:08] <tomp> try bin/halcmd unloadrt all after what must be like one of my major botches ;)
[18:25:25] <xemet> well I've to go now...
[18:25:32] <tomp> xemet: thanks
[18:25:36] <xemet> bye byee
[18:25:46] <xemet> thanks to you for your advices!!
[18:25:53] <xemet> good bye
[18:26:15] <jepler> two notes: after you use 'scripts/emc-environment', you should not have to give a path to halcmd or realtime. second, use 'halrun': it does a realtime start, then halcmd, then realtime stop.
[18:27:27] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: hey I got a BIIG dro : nice!
[18:27:44] <Goslowjimbo> I got halcmd: hal_init() failed: -9
[18:28:03] <Goslowjimbo> Good, how did you do it? I'll write it down, I promise
[18:28:42] <Goslowjimbo> Sort of screams at you, doesn't it?
[18:31:03] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: testing the sequence now... assuming you're in ~/youremc2headdirectory and havent begun running realtime nor emc... kinda raw but standing in the right place... ok?
[18:32:51] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: also assuming the 2 fiels are in that directory (~/emc2-head, where you 'are' )
[18:34:12] <tomp> its just scripts/realtime start then bin/halcmd -f pyvcp-dro.hal and Blammo! big dro
[18:34:25] <jepler> I added 'waitusr pyvcp' to the end of the hal file, commented out all the parport lines because I am using simulator, and executed: halrun pyvcp-dro.hal
[18:36:40] <Goslowjimbo> jepler: what is "waitusr pyvcp"?
[18:37:49] <Goslowjimbo> tomp: why did you not have to command ". scripts/emc-environment"?
[18:38:21] <tomp> jeplers way works nice, no need for unloadrt stuff, very clean waitusr is so the dro doesnt dissappear right away, waits for you to close the window.
[18:38:32] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: that waits for the userspace component "pyvcp" to exit, which happens when you close its window
[18:39:33] <robin_sz> meep?
[18:39:33] <tomp> i did scripts/emc-environment a few days ago, & haven't rebooted , maybe thats why
[18:39:44] <Goslowjimbo> Gotcha. I'm going to write down both techniques.
[18:40:13] <tomp> use jeplers, it's clean, you dont need bad ways when you learn
[18:41:38] <Goslowjimbo> Hi robin_sz Is this in red?
[18:41:56] <robin_sz> Goslowjimbo, no, green.
[18:42:27] <Goslowjimbo> robin_ss: is this in magenta?
[18:42:48] <robin_sz> no, black
[18:43:23] <Goslowjimbo> Darn.
[18:43:29] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: do you recall the 'dali clock' for linux? each number morphed into the next number, i'd like the dro to do that :)
[18:43:38] <jepler> hm it seems like you could simplify the hal file a great deal by hooking encoder.0.position directly to pyvcp.Xdisplay (etc) and pyvcp.Xzerobutton to encoder.0.reset (etc), getting rid of the 'mux'es and 'sum's.
[18:43:54] <robin_sz> Goslowjimbo, is this in red for you?
[18:44:08] <jepler> as long as nothing else is using the output of the encoder, anyway
[18:45:08] <Goslowjimbo> I don't think I've ever heard of the 'dali clock' before. I'll try to look it up.
[18:45:34] <tomp> it was also a screen saver, just a bit of eye candy
[18:45:56] <Goslowjimbo> jepler: I agree. That's what I originally did, then someone (there goes that memory again) said this way was better.
[18:46:22] <robin_sz> 05jimbo, and this should also be red
[18:46:36] <Goslowjimbo> robin_sz: is what red?
[18:46:47] <lerneaen_hydra> robin_sz; that text is red for me, (xchat)
[18:46:54] <lerneaen_hydra> 2.6.6
[18:47:07] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: ok -- if something else (like emc itself) was using the position from the encoders, then it would not work right after you hit the reset button...
[18:47:36] <robin_sz> lerneaen_hydra, its OK, I understand the color highlighting, I was just having a bit of fun with Goslowjimbo
[18:48:03] <Goslowjimbo> I see. If emc is looking for absolute counts to locate ends, resetting the counters would be a problem.
[18:53:33] <Goslowjimbo> What is the significance of 2.6.6? It's probably not a steam engine or someone's vital stats.
[18:54:44] <lerneaen_hydra> that's my irc client version
[18:55:13] <Goslowjimbo> Oh.
[18:55:52] <tomp> Goslowjimbo: jepler: it wont work again. i use >halrun pyvcp-dro.hal<, i added >waitusr pyvcp< and a crlf to the end of pyvcp-dro.hal, and its back to a blink (dro appears & goes away )
[18:56:42] <jepler> any error printed on the terminal?
[18:56:48] <jepler> are you using emc 2.1 or some version from CVS?
[18:56:50] <tomp> no, nothing
[18:56:58] <tomp> cvs a few days ago
[18:58:00] <jepler> if you speify the wrong component name to 'waitusr' (e.g., one that doesn't exist) I think waitusr will finish immediately.
[18:58:18] <jepler> it can't know for sure if the component never existed, or if it already exited
[18:59:00] <Goslowjimbo> I think I'm going to have to re-boot to try anything. I will disappear for a while, while I regroup.
[18:59:04] <Goslowjimbo> bye
[18:59:12] <jepler> that shouldn't be necessary, but do it if it comforts you
[18:59:51] <tomp> between the brackets is cut and pasted from the terminal >waitusr pyvcp<, but it maybe the wrong name ?
[19:01:32] <tomp> rechecked the old way .... bin/halcmd unloadrt all scripts/realtime stop bin/halcmd -f pyvcp-dro.hal works :(
[19:03:58] <tomp> but this is good, i was making a demo for the parport, an xml , a hal, and photos of the breadboard to parport cable with hd power connector for +5, so it's good experience
[19:06:54] <jepler> loadusr -W pyvcp -c pyvcp pyvcp-dro.xml
[19:06:59] <jepler> waitusr pyvcp
[19:07:00] <jepler> works for me
[19:07:08] <jepler> I am testing with TRUNK
[19:07:37] <tomp> :) i thought you said you put it in the file when you said 'right after' :)
[19:07:57] <jepler> of course I mean I put it in the file
[19:08:24] <tomp> k, sorry
[19:08:30] <lerneaen_hydra> bbml all
[19:10:43] <tomp> ok, must need to update, it just blinks
[19:13:16] <jepler> hm if I put the wrong component name, it prints an error: HAL:117: ERROR: component 'pxxxyvcp' not found
[19:21:46] <Goslowjimbo> jepler: I got the flash of a DRO also. The error was : hal:115: space unknown command 'waitusr'
[19:26:38] <jepler> in that case, update your emc2
[19:26:47] <jepler> I'm not sure what's keeping it from working in tomp's case
[19:29:07] <Goslowjimbo> I was afraid you'd say that. The instruction was 'waitusr pyvcp' - correct?
[19:31:54] <jepler> * jepler bangs his keyboard
[19:33:52] <Goslowjimbo> bye
[21:21:32] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: just have to stay off the channel to get work done? ;)
[21:23:37] <SWPadnos> heh - it helps :)
[21:24:10] <SWPadnos> actually, Mozilla crashed, so I took the opportunity to reboot the computer, and just didn't reconnect until I had done a particular piece of work
[21:40:13] <skunkworks> what would be an easy way for someone to email a config to the emc2 group?
[21:41:24] <SWPadnos> tar up the directory and upload it to the wiki??
[21:41:46] <Jymmmm> anyone on M$ atm?
[21:42:35] <skunkworks> for someone who isn't that savy
[21:42:43] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yep
[21:42:53] <skunkworks> yes here alos
[21:42:56] <skunkworks> also
[21:43:07] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Favor, traceroute to and gimme the results
[21:43:21] <Jymmmm> it MIGHT timeoute
[21:43:32] <Jymmmm> tracert
[21:43:54] <SWPadnos> cyberkit for me :)
[21:44:02] <SWPadnos> ok, what do you want to know?
[21:44:09] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos mo, I need it ran from the M$ tracert.exe
[21:44:15] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:44:48] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/354276
[21:44:54] <SWPadnos> ms is so dumb
[21:45:23] <SWPadnos> I have a terminal that's ~100 chars wide, but the stupid tracert (and anything else MS) still wraps at line 80
[21:45:25] <Jymmmm> lol
[21:45:55] <Jymmmm> thanks skunkworks - btw where are you?
[21:46:00] <skunkworks> WI
[21:46:04] <Jymmmm> k
[21:46:17] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/354277
[21:47:05] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos have you tweeked anything network wise on your xp box?
[21:47:24] <SWPadnos> no, and it's not XP - it's Win2k
[21:47:27] <SWPadnos> Pro
[21:47:27] <erDiZz> uh. never dealt with rotational axes... in gcodes, what is specified after A/B/C? what's the meaning of the number?
[21:47:44] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos Ah, ok. might be a bug with XP tracert then.
[21:47:59] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos where you at ?
[21:48:20] <SWPadnos> IB at Essex Junction, VT (05452)
[21:48:21] <Jymmmm> at the moment that is
[21:48:25] <Jymmmm> vt
[21:48:29] <Jymmmm> ok cool
[21:48:45] <skunkworks> xp pro here also
[21:49:12] <skunkworks> erDiZz: I don't know what all emc2 can do - but normally degrees.
[21:49:14] <Jymmmm> skunkworks your path didn't cross the router in question, SWPadnos did though
[21:49:23] <skunkworks> ah
[21:49:38] <jepler> erDiZz: there's not a g-code to specify the units (as there is for linear units: g20/g21), so I think they're generally taken to be degrees
[21:49:44] <SWPadnos> here are the results from CyberKit, just in case you want themhttp://pastebin.ca/354280
[21:50:04] <jepler> erDiZz: rs274ngc envisions that A is parallel to X, B is parallel to Y, and Z is parallel to C
[21:50:12] <erDiZz> so if it is in degrees, is it always relative to the current position?
[21:50:18] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos thanks
[21:50:21] <jepler> erDiZz: and i believe it also defines which direction is positive
[21:50:23] <SWPadnos> I think you can set the scale such that they're radians, but I'm not surewhat you need to set it to (180/pi or pi/180)
[21:50:58] <SWPadnos> erDiZz, no, it's not always relative
[21:51:01] <erDiZz> say, one wants to rotate by 720 degrees, and the current position is 20 degrees...
[21:51:31] <SWPadnos> if you're in relative mode, you go to 720, in absolute, go to 740 ...
[21:51:33] <erDiZz> then what does one do? A720 or A740 (720 + 20)
[21:51:47] <erDiZz> ok
[21:51:52] <SWPadnos> it depends on G90/G91 (?)
[21:52:25] <erDiZz> ok, that means that has to track the "absolute angle"
[21:52:56] <SWPadnos> I think it's the same as absolute vs. relative linear coordinates - you ned to account for both movement modes
[21:52:56] <erDiZz> ("one has to")
[21:53:58] <erDiZz> I was confused by the fact that while linear motion is bounded, rotational motion is unbounded (i.e. one can make an "infinite" number of turns...)
[21:54:13] <erDiZz> ...and get an overflow
[21:54:30] <SWPadnos> it's not necessarily unbounded, though I'm not sure emc handles a limited case correctly (it may, but I don't know)
[21:55:11] <SWPadnos> it's not necessarily unbounded, though I'm not sure emc handles a limited case correctly (it may, but I don't know)
[21:55:20] <SWPadnos> (repeat, in case you missed it last time)
[21:55:47] <erDiZz> SWPadnos, yes, I've missed it
[21:55:48] <erDiZz> thanks
[21:56:04] <SWPadnos> sure. do you see the cases where there are actual limits to rotation?
[21:56:19] <SWPadnos> I suspect those are more common than unlimited rotation cases
[21:56:36] <erDiZz> uhm, probably
[21:56:44] <cradek> I wouldn't necessarily copy emc's behavior/limitations wrt rotaries
[21:56:55] <skunkworks> can the emc-board email take attachments?
[21:56:57] <erDiZz> I think it is practically impossible to get an overflow with a double
[21:57:04] <erDiZz> (double data type)
[21:57:04] <cradek> skunkworks: yes if they're tiny
[21:57:15] <cradek> skunkworks: total message limited to 24kbytes
[21:57:20] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, it looks like the user list can as well, from the latest messate I have
[21:57:26] <SWPadnos> message
[21:57:27] <skunkworks> ok - there is a guy who may have an tiag ini working in emc2
[21:57:41] <skunkworks> taig
[21:58:04] <skunkworks> he was wondering an easy way to get it to the developers. (very new to emc it seems)
[21:58:19] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: using cyberkit, could you run the traceroute again, this time using 38 byte packets?
[21:58:26] <SWPadnos> a wiki page describing the machine would be great then, along with an upload of the config
[21:58:38] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, I don't know that I can control the packet size
[21:58:42] <jepler> 'Taig (also Teague, Teg and Teig) is a derogatory term for an Irish Catholic' -- wikipedia
[21:58:52] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos I think you can,
[21:58:57] <cradek> ha
[21:59:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yep - I can
[21:59:04] <cradek> now look up sherline
[21:59:08] <skunkworks> :)
[21:59:16] <tomp> Jymmmm: were you looking at xml & hal this morning? (unsure of the handle, thought it was Jym something)
[21:59:24] <Jymmmm> tomp not I
[21:59:33] <tomp> scusa
[21:59:58] <SWPadnos> jymmm: http://pastebin.ca/354301
[21:59:58] <jepler> I think it was Goslowjimbo
[22:00:03] <jepler> not sure if he left happy or not
[22:00:27] <a-l-p-h-a> can someone ping nawrockiarchitect.com and tell me what ip they get?
[22:00:30] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos one last time using 30 byte packets.
[22:00:51] <cradek> what do you think are the chances Dino wants his stepper machine configured for 132 mm/sec
[22:00:55] <cradek> that's pretty darn fast
[22:01:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, same results, it seems
[22:01:04] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos thanks
[22:01:08] <anonimasu> 4heh
[22:01:14] <jepler> skunkworks: is there something about this tag config that makes it markedly different from stepper_inch or stepper_mm?
[22:01:19] <anonimasu> 7m/min
[22:01:36] <SWPadnos> a-l-p-h-a,
[22:01:37] <jepler> er, "taig" sorry
[22:01:43] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos,, thanks!
[22:01:48] <cradek> hmm maybe - his test file has F10000
[22:02:21] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos We had a Cisco 7000 needed to be rebooted last week, matbe residue from that
[22:02:24] <skunkworks> jepler: not sure - it didn't work for him until he changed the ini.
[22:02:27] <anonimasu> what kind of machine is that?
[22:02:30] <skunkworks> the change is unknown
[22:02:43] <anonimasu> that does 7m/min with steppers?
[22:03:17] <cradek> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /root/ncfiles/
[22:03:23] <cradek> ugh.
[22:03:30] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, ok. it seems to be wroking now :)
[22:03:32] <SWPadnos> working, too
[22:04:23] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos Actually not =) if you got a nix box, same thing using default bye size
[22:04:37] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257481#post257481
[22:04:42] <SWPadnos> it'll take aminute to boot
[22:06:05] <Jymmmm> wheres alex_joni when you need him... I wanna see a tr from romainia! LOL
[22:07:37] <tomp> jepler: i made a new directory and did a clean dev install , it (halrun pyvcp-dro.hal) runs, but the halpins he specs in the xml are'nt found (HAL: ERROR: pin 'pyvcp.Xdisplay' not found).
[22:07:51] <tomp> so i opened another terminal while the DRO was visible and ran 'bin/halcmd show pin' with the result 'HAL: ERROR: version code mismatch'. both terminals say they''re in ~/emc2-head
[22:08:42] <tomp> sitting in that condition still, if it's of any use
[22:09:51] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, well, isn't that interesting? I don't have traceroute, only traceroute6, which doesn't recognize an IPv4 address
[22:10:13] <SWPadnos> tracepath gets to hop 12, then stops getting replies
[22:10:32] <SWPadnos> (that's
[22:11:12] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: http://pastebin.ca/354310 Czech Republic
[22:11:47] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: http://www.traceroute.org/
[22:12:04] <skunkworks> your probably going to get dos attacks now though ;)
[22:18:05] <a-l-p-h-a> okay... AJ told me, it'd be okay, to have apache/php/mysql/emc2.1 running on the same machine... as long as the machine isn't gonna be hit while emc2.1 was running... how would the RT kernel play with apache/mysql/php?
[22:18:54] <SWPadnos> that should depend mostly on how nicely your storage and network drivers play with RT
[22:19:46] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos... umm... standard IDE drivers, and built in ethernet.
[22:19:49] <a-l-p-h-a> onboard
[22:19:59] <a-l-p-h-a> dunno how well it'll play together.
[22:20:03] <a-l-p-h-a> argh...
[22:20:11] <SWPadnos> I don't know the answer for your situation, but I suspect those are the possible trouble spots
[22:20:18] <a-l-p-h-a> brb... linux time.
[22:20:27] <SWPadnos> apache / php / mysql are just non-RT apps, and shouldn't affect things
[22:26:09] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos how weird.
[22:26:50] <Jymmmm> skunkworks thanks, unfortuantely that doesn't take the path I need.
[22:27:37] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, yeah, since ipv4 seems to work on my local network ;)
[22:27:59] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos are you specifically workin on IPv6 ?
[22:28:19] <SWPadnos> not that I know of. I'm pretty sure my Netgear router is IPV4 only
[22:28:32] <Jymmmm> lol
[22:31:17] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: there are a bunch of locations on that site to tracert from. Don't know of what direction you need to hit that specific router.
[22:32:28] <Jymmmm> skunkworks part of the problem is that they dont specify the packet size, and that's partly the issue in question (< 40 byte packets)
[22:33:18] <skunkworks> ah
[22:37:48] <Jymmmm> Now to finish up making the bracket I need for the last energy chain =)
[22:58:42] <crepincdotcom> anyone here used the Eagle to Gcode script before?
[22:59:16] <crepincdotcom> cradek / jepler, around?
[23:00:46] <cradek> yes but only for a minute
[23:01:36] <crepincdotcom> ah... i was just going to ask about tool definitions for the eagle scripts. I see the config file, but it's format is not instaly appererent
[23:01:41] <crepincdotcom> i can talk to you later if youre busy now
[23:06:45] <cradek> ah
[23:06:59] <cradek> umm there's a tool diameter, and then a range that that tool should be used for
[23:07:13] <cradek> I don't recall the details but that's the general idea
[23:07:28] <crepincdotcom> lol
[23:07:35] <crepincdotcom> thanks, ill work on it
[23:07:36] <cradek> one (first one?) might be special - it's used for milling holes
[23:07:43] <crepincdotcom> right
[23:07:46] <crepincdotcom> looks like it
[23:07:47] <cradek> ok be careful not to mill holes with a drill bit
[23:07:54] <crepincdotcom> heh ;-)
[23:08:11] <crepincdotcom> when i figure it out, would you guys be interested in me writing some docs for it, and get it in public usage?
[23:08:25] <cradek> that would be great
[23:08:30] <crepincdotcom> ok
[23:08:36] <crepincdotcom> ill catch up with you in a few days about it
[23:08:50] <cradek> thanks
[23:08:57] <crepincdotcom> heh thank you guys
[23:12:20] <tomp> jepler: the inheritance doesnt work because pyvcp never gets ready. i got a screen full of dots following Waiting for component 'pyvcp' to become ready....
[23:13:15] <tomp> i killed it (^C) as it scrolled of the terminal and got HAL:30: ERROR: pyvcp exited without becoming ready
[23:32:40] <robin_sz> meeeeeeeep?
[23:33:17] <robin_sz> so, it looks like there is a mouse visiting the back corner of our larder
[23:33:53] <robin_sz> probably because I keep leaving food out for it :) ... my wife is not very impressed :)
[23:40:53] <tomp> jepler: i reduced it to a .hal that only called pyvcp, and a pyvcp that only opened a window, no halpins.... the window opens and pyvcp never gets ready heres the hal,xml,and termional output, les s than 20 lines http://pastebin.ca/354432
[23:59:03] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, what's your work schedule like these days?