#emc | Logs for 2007-02-09

[00:00:05] <owhite> maybe I should get my crew here to contribute some code devel, actually repay in a currency that has some meaning.
[00:02:56] <jepler> what would you contribute, if you could?
[00:05:19] <owhite> documentation? :-) shoot, I dont know. they all write code for DNA analysis.
[00:05:35] <owhite> I'm director of bioinformatics of http://tigr.org
[00:06:12] <owhite> how about a nice assembly for DNA sequence fragments for the mammalian genomes?
[00:06:17] <robin_sz> the trouble with emc is ... you need a few years of CNC and about a years emc experience before you could contribute much useful to behonest, its a remarkably deep project ... the logical option would be to create some sort fo well-defined add-on tool for emc, liek a configurator for example, somehting discrete would seem the best plan
[00:06:47] <robin_sz> or some neat way of viewing the HAL xml config in a human friendly form
[00:06:58] <robin_sz> your guys must be great at visualisation tools
[00:07:06] <owhite> really? we bang on XML all the time.
[00:07:16] <cradek> I think anyone who uses emc and is well-spoken could contribute a lot to documentation
[00:07:38] <owhite> I write so freaking much, if I could contribute documentation I'd be happy to.
[00:07:45] <jepler> or review and improve what's there, instead of just adding more words
[00:07:52] <robin_sz> yep
[00:07:55] <owhite> since all my people run on goverment funds, bout all I do is write grants.
[00:08:06] <robin_sz> heh :)
[00:08:16] <cradek> yes, a lot of it is out of date, or has not been proofread
[00:08:28] <robin_sz> well, it came from NIST source originally, it would be governmint work still :)
[00:08:31] <owhite> zactly. keeping up with your code base would be hell.
[00:09:09] <owhite> I made a dxf to g-code converter in perl, you all want that? :-)
[00:09:18] <robin_sz> heh
[00:09:26] <jepler> perl's a language we don't use in emc yet
[00:09:32] <SWPadnos> two places where someone that's not steeped in EMC tradition can help a lot: 1) graphical configuration tools and 2) importers/converters for either old EMC configs or for things like Mach configs ...
[00:09:32] <robin_sz> yet :)
[00:10:07] <owhite> perl save the human genome project. we bang a lot of text, basically.
[00:10:20] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:10:28] <robin_sz> perl and bioinformatics go back a long way
[00:10:41] <robin_sz> isnt Nat Torkington the bio guy?
[00:11:00] <owhite> dont sound familiar.
[00:11:14] <jepler> I'd better take this as a cue to bail, since otherwise I'll go on some anti-perl tirade
[00:11:22] <owhite> ha.
[00:11:23] <jepler> bbl
[00:11:42] <owhite> I'm out of here too.
[00:11:45] <owhite> thanks for everything. again.
[00:11:48] <robin_sz> * robin_sz waves
[00:11:54] <jepler> he moves fast
[00:13:33] <robin_sz> like a greased rabbit
[00:15:24] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders whether 0 is a positive integer
[00:15:36] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:15:39] <SWPadnos> no
[00:15:41] <SWPadnos> maybe
[00:15:43] <robin_sz> heh
[00:15:53] <robin_sz> thats roughly the same conclusion I came to
[00:16:04] <SWPadnos> I could ask my mother, but you'd have to do something very nice for me
[00:16:29] <tomp> watch the sign on most dros as they cross 0, they're of the same inconsistant opinion :)
[00:16:37] <robin_sz> ive been looking at partitions, quite an interesting subject
[00:17:02] <robin_sz> for maths anyway
[00:17:21] <SWPadnos> well, according to this page, it's neither positive nor negative: http://www.answers.com/topic/integer-1
[00:17:29] <robin_sz> bah :)
[00:17:45] <tomp> yes, it has no sign, becuz it has no value
[00:18:02] <tomp> all the -0 displays are goofy
[00:18:27] <SWPadnos> those make sense, since the measurement resolution is likely higher than the display resolution
[00:18:51] <SWPadnos> so it may be reading -0.00001, but it would need to be -0.00005 to round up to something displayable
[00:19:16] <robin_sz> hmm .. ok, I gave in and looked it up on sloanes
[00:19:33] <robin_sz> its neither
[00:19:34] <tomp> yes, thats why, but thats not 'making senset, that's 'why it happens' ;)
[00:19:40] <robin_sz> http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A000027
[00:20:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I recognize the characters, but the page makes no sense
[00:21:19] <robin_sz> ooh, now , this is neat ... very neat
[00:21:23] <robin_sz> http://integrals.wolfram.com/index.jsp
[00:21:28] <tomp> tomp makes link on wiki to the examples the jepler pointed out http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/vcp/index.html
[01:02:27] <erDiZz> you have an option to use "myconf" for configuration. It provides distributed state (clients receive notifications when options change), stores things in XML, and has a GUI similar to GNOME's GConf
[01:02:34] <erDiZz> the screenshot's here: http://mync.sourceforge.net/f2.png
[01:02:52] <erDiZz> it's a separate library, independent enough
[01:13:42] <Jymmmm> one energy chain mounted, one to farbicated the brackets to go!
[01:14:39] <Jymmmm> CAT5 ran and terminated, just have to get under the SOB table and mount the bitch the wall!
[01:20:31] <tomp> erDiZz: looks nice. can you find a old agie 150mmx150mm to test with? some are being thrown away here in the US, and they're very accurate & easy to interface, just xy but 1/2um step
[01:21:39] <erDiZz> tomp, to test what?
[01:21:51] <tomp> wedm
[01:22:20] <erDiZz> that's kind'a the only type of machines I have access to
[01:22:45] <erDiZz> not till this summer though
[01:22:55] <erDiZz> s/summer/spring/
[01:24:17] <erDiZz> tomp, my uncle has a small business of replacing broken soviet control units
[01:24:43] <tomp> wow, maybe he can use your control and maybe emc
[01:24:45] <erDiZz> ...on wedm machines mostly
[01:25:38] <tomp> have him contacct Tom Truty at http://www.techstar-edm.com/, he restores old wedm also, and may have some parts
[01:25:47] <erDiZz> tomp, yeah, at the moment the goal is to implement all functions that the software he uses has
[01:25:57] <erDiZz> so that he could use mync as a replacement
[01:26:03] <tomp> cool
[01:26:26] <erDiZz> that old peace of sowtware I'm talking about was written in modula-2 in late 80-s - early 90s...
[01:27:00] <tomp> i worked a few guys who came from Moscow and specialized in EDM, they work with a 'Dr.Otto' on an anti-arc device ( wow modula-2)
[01:28:10] <erDiZz> I think they all know each other here
[01:28:28] <tomp> all the ingersoll's sold by Mitsubishi in the US have the 'otto box'
[01:29:18] <erDiZz> at those times the production was centralized, the head facility for manufacturing CNC controls for wedm was 'Istok' in the town of Fryazino near Moscow
[01:30:11] <tomp> I read some of the journals ( looked at the pictures) there was a lot of good work done there
[01:30:45] <erDiZz> tomp, yeah, but it was all stuck in the 90s
[01:31:24] <erDiZz> I was told that there is a whole hangar at Istok with a hundred or more ready-to-work wedm machines
[01:31:39] <erDiZz> they're just standing there
[01:31:44] <erDiZz> for nothing
[01:32:06] <tomp> get your control running & go to Turkey, they're hungry for machines.
[01:32:22] <erDiZz> will do my best :)
[01:33:41] <erDiZz> * erDiZz is a bit too patriotic to move anywhere
[01:33:57] <erDiZz> well, I'm off to bed
[01:34:07] <erDiZz> bye
[01:34:09] <tomp> dont move, sell them machine, take money home :) good nite
[01:36:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: since html documentation isn't even included in the debs, make it possible to build pdf docs without latex2html intstalled, and get rid of the build-dependency on latex2html.
[01:36:54] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: since html documentation isn't even included in the debs, make it possible to build pdf docs without latex2html intstalled, and get rid of the build-dependency on latex2html.
[01:36:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile.inc.in configure configure.in): since html documentation isn't even included in the debs, make it possible to build pdf docs without latex2html intstalled, and get rid of the build-dependency on latex2html.
[02:09:14] <CIA-8> 03fjungclaus 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/po/de_axis.po:
[02:09:14] <CIA-8> - Done some more translations
[02:09:14] <CIA-8> - Added translations for new MDI history stuff
[02:09:40] <fjungclaus_> Going to bed now. CU
[02:10:48] <cradek> thanks for translations! goodnight
[02:26:28] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[02:54:47] <ejholmgren> gah
[02:54:59] <ejholmgren> I can't understand a word my calc prof says
[02:55:31] <ejholmgren> mehnos this, mehnos that
[02:56:27] <jepler> owhite: you're back
[02:56:34] <owhite> yep.
[02:56:36] <owhite> with a problem.
[02:56:49] <owhite> I think I broke something with the last make.
[02:56:55] <owhite> http://pastebin.ca/346147
[02:59:26] <jepler> owhite: ipcrm -M 1004
[02:59:36] <owhite> whats that? a command?
[02:59:40] <jepler> owhite: emc uses shared memory buffers to communicate between different parts of the program
[02:59:47] <owhite> mm-hm.
[02:59:53] <jepler> owhite: one of the buffers has a different size specified in 2.1 and earlier than in 2.2
[03:00:06] <owhite> yikes.
[03:00:07] <jepler> owhite: emc is supposed to remove the buffer when it exits, but at least sometimes it doesn't.
[03:00:21] <jepler> owhite: when it doesn't remove the buffer, and you switch to a version with the other size specified, you get this error message.
[03:00:29] <jepler> owhite: you can fix it by manually removing the shared memory segment, the ipcrm command I showed earlier
[03:01:12] <jepler> except the right number may be 1005
[03:01:21] <owhite> that sounded real plausible :-) but I tried it and....oh.
[03:01:25] <jepler> * BufferLine: B toolSts SHMEM localhost 8192 0 0 5 16 1005 TCP=5005 xdr
[03:01:54] <owhite> now honestly, how can you be so smart?
[03:02:18] <jepler> if I was smart I'd fix the bug
[03:02:31] <owhite> new problem. something broke my tkemc.tcl, but....
[03:02:38] <owhite> I will try to fix that. :-)
[03:02:52] <cradek> I think it leaves those droppings only when it fails to start up right
[03:03:49] <owhite> crap the last build put lines like ">>>>>>" into my code.
[03:04:07] <cradek> no, cvs up with conflicts does that
[03:04:08] <jmkasunich> cvs did that
[03:04:12] <owhite> that's a cvs thing, right?
[03:04:16] <owhite> got it.
[03:04:15] <jepler> owhite: that means you and another developer modified the same lines in that file
[03:04:25] <owhite> I live for conflicts.
[03:04:26] <jepler> it shows you your lines, the other developer's lines, and lets you sort it out
[03:04:29] <jmkasunich> you made a change in your local copy that conflicted with another change in cvs
[03:04:35] <jepler> that's why it's called a conflict
[03:04:59] <owhite> how could another developer POSSIBLY know have a better idea than I do with my tkemc.tcl code?
[03:05:02] <owhite> :-)
[03:05:05] <jepler> well that's a good question
[03:05:55] <owhite> I've done all kinds of horrible things to tkemc.tcl, I knew this day was coming. :-)
[03:06:15] <owhite> all this because you guys talked me into using 2.1 :-)
[03:08:33] <owhite> not that anyone should care, but if I can get pyvcp to then I will just use the standard tkemc. I hacked it a lot to work on my laser system.
[03:08:52] <owhite> er, get pyvcp _to work_ ....
[03:09:02] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/scara-backplot.png
[03:09:08] <jmkasunich> owhite: I'd suggest renaming your tkemc, then do a cvs up to fetch the standard one
[03:09:19] <jmkasunich> (if cvs sees the file missing, it will reload the original)
[03:09:20] <cradek> cvs up -C tkemc.tcl
[03:09:24] <owhite> thanks good idea.
[03:09:28] <cradek> ^^ shortcut
[03:09:29] <jepler> I suspect owhite doesn't want to give up his changes!
[03:09:42] <jmkasunich> I said "rename it"
[03:09:48] <jmkasunich> not "delete it"
[03:09:52] <jepler> I guess both do preserve the old file
[03:10:12] <cradek> oh if you have to hand merge anyway, the <<< >>> are as easy as anything
[03:10:15] <jmkasunich> cradek: fun ain't it?
[03:10:16] <cradek> (or as much of a pain as anything)
[03:10:24] <cradek> yep, it's very cool
[03:10:38] <cradek> has anyone told the list about this?
[03:10:46] <jepler> no, I don't think so
[03:10:53] <jmkasunich> try a setp scaragui.joint4 30 while its cutting
[03:11:02] <jmkasunich> (like between the EMC2 and the AXIS)
[03:11:32] <cradek> ok
[03:15:35] <tomp> cradek: jmkasunich: re the scara-backplot... when you get the kinematics for the operator worked out, you can program him too :)
[03:15:50] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:15:57] <cradek> shouldn't one of ABC turn the tool around? (that's the R axis maybe?)
[03:16:09] <jmkasunich> its CNC - the operator walked away for a cup of coffee
[03:16:12] <jmkasunich> C turns the tool
[03:16:21] <owhite> out of curiousity, what are you guys talking about?
[03:16:26] <cradek> no it doesn't
[03:16:29] <cradek> owhite:
[03:16:30] <jmkasunich> but emc won't let us configure C unless we do A and B as well
[03:16:34] <cradek> oops
[03:16:41] <cradek> owhite: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/scara-backplot.png
[03:17:11] <cradek> owhite: EMC2 controlling a pretend robot
[03:18:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: ok, so I can't control C, but it's in the kins
[03:18:22] <jmkasunich> right
[03:18:37] <jmkasunich> I even think its correct
[03:18:43] <cradek> it would be cool to see it keep the point in the same place
[03:18:46] <jmkasunich> but its untested at the moment
[03:18:50] <cradek> ok
[03:19:12] <jmkasunich> you mean jog C, and watch the rest of the arm move as the tool orbits its own tip?
[03:19:23] <cradek> yes
[03:19:31] <cradek> that's how it should work right?
[03:19:35] <jmkasunich> alex mentioned a possible real-life use for this config
[03:19:39] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:19:52] <owhite> is EMC linked to software that's then rendering that picture?
[03:19:54] <cradek> I'm keeping an eye out for parts to build one
[03:19:55] <jmkasunich> if the angled tool was a plasma cutter, you could cut out pieces pre-beveled for welding
[03:19:56] <cradek> owhite: yes
[03:20:19] <owhite> you guys are really amazing.
[03:20:23] <cradek> owhite: the picture moves to represent emc's calculations for all the joints
[03:20:35] <jepler> owhite: if yo've successfully compiled the TRUNK with AXIS, you can try configs/scara
[03:20:39] <owhite> very very cool.
[03:20:49] <owhite> oh that's scara. nice.
[03:21:36] <cradek> there's also a puma robot, but it works ... a little less well
[03:21:42] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:21:47] <jepler> http://www.myscienceproject.org/j-wall.html
[03:21:49] <cradek> it has a cool gripper though
[03:22:01] <jmkasunich> the model works fine, but the emc kinematics for puma aren't quite right
[03:22:11] <owhite> I would settle for just getting a vcp panel to turn on my ventilation :-)
[03:22:43] <cradek> jepler: hahaha ramen jello
[03:22:53] <jmkasunich> composite!
[03:23:15] <cradek> bbl
[03:25:48] <tomp> this morning there was a link posted to a nice homebrew head for a 5 axis machine, it was in cnczone & i dont join. found it...http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/1117/cat/500
[03:26:27] <tomp> the tool doesnt quite hold still while the arm moves, it spirals over the surface of a sphere, so very similar
[03:29:29] <jepler> hm this is not a very good helical path, look at the facets .. http://imagebin.org/7208
[03:30:06] <jepler> (it's from that person's gallery)
[03:30:32] <cradek> cam-generated maybe
[03:30:34] <tomp> i think his 'finishing' passes are ... longitudinal, yes scalloppde
[03:31:14] <cradek> jeez, get a lathe
[03:31:15] <tomp> he might be beginning the spiral from bot to top, dunno
[03:31:43] <cradek> from the looks of the coolant I think he's cutting a spiral
[03:32:15] <owhite> there's a pyvcp_demo.hal in configs/sim, does anyone know what launches the "demo"?
[03:32:18] <cradek> but yeah, we sure have better arcs than that
[03:32:40] <cradek> owhite: I know sim/lathe has a vcp panel
[03:32:42] <jepler> there's a picture of the path in another image -- it goes from the south pole to the north pole in a single curve
[03:33:05] <owhite> yah I spotted that but I cant find anything that launches pyvcp_demo.
[03:33:18] <jepler> owhite: run the demo with: halrun pyvcp_demo.hal
[03:33:42] <jepler> hm looks like the hal file has bitrotted
[03:34:28] <cradek> goodnight all
[03:34:37] <tomp> nite
[03:35:09] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:35:42] <owhite> nite.
[03:35:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/pyvcp_demo.hal: fix demo to work with pyvcp changes
[03:36:04] <jepler> owhite: after you "cvs up", 'halrun pyvcp_demo.hal' shold work properly
[03:36:05] <jepler> should
[03:36:46] <owhite> cvs up, or cvs -z5 update -Pd ?
[03:37:18] <jepler> you should put the "-z5" and "update -pD" in your ~/.cvsrc so that you don't have to remember them each time
[03:37:23] <jepler> er, -Pd
[03:37:28] <jepler> that also means you don't have to type it right each time
[03:38:00] <jepler> good defaults for ~/.cvsrc are suggested on the wiki: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CVS
[03:38:00] <owhite> and do I run make after I cvs up?
[03:38:44] <jepler> it can't hurt and doesn't take long, but in this case (an updated .hal file) it is not strictly necessary
[03:40:28] <jepler> goodnight
[03:40:38] <tomp> nite
[03:41:47] <owhite> .cvsrc is working. pyvcp_demo.hal is working.
[03:53:29] <maddash> what motherboards work well with emc? ie, minimizes RT-delays...
[03:56:00] <tomp> dunno, there some thing that bother rt ( on board vid with unstoppable interrupts ), mainly stuff that is incompatible with rt, viewed from 'it does stuff when it wants to and wont abide with the scheduler'... so we dotn know whats good, we know whats bad
[04:06:47] <owhite> if I delete a file, then run cvs up, it'll restore that file, right?
[04:06:51] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:12:08] <owhite> so you all may be too busy to look at this, I'm wondering about pyvcp_demo -- I dont get how pyvcp_demo.hal connects to the check button name chbutton-sample in the .xml file.
[04:12:34] <jmkasunich> lemme take a look
[04:12:50] <owhite> most nice of youze.
[04:12:58] <jmkasunich> (gotta update first, hang on a bit)
[04:13:55] <owhite> you can use cvs -z5 update -Pd, or augment your .cvsrc file :-)
[04:14:05] <owhite> <--- incredibly knowledgable.
[04:14:13] <jmkasunich> I have a couple of scripts, update and build
[04:14:24] <jmkasunich> one does the cvs up -dP, and configure
[04:14:30] <jmkasunich> the other does the make
[04:14:54] <jmkasunich> both run from the top level directory to save doing cd
[04:15:10] <owhite> okay. but how about that chbutton? :-)
[04:15:24] <jmkasunich> which config are you running again?
[04:15:30] <owhite> sim
[04:15:52] <jmkasunich> there are about 7 configs under sim
[04:15:54] <jmkasunich> which one has the vcp?
[04:16:07] <jmkasunich> lathe?
[04:16:18] <owhite> sorry. halrun pyvcp_demo.hal
[04:16:25] <owhite> in /configs/sim
[04:17:46] <jmkasunich> ok, got it running
[04:17:50] <jmkasunich> what do you want to know
[04:18:09] <owhite> I dont get how pyvcp_demo.hal connects to the check button name chbutton-sample in the .xml file.
[04:18:17] <tomp> jmkasunich: owhite: pyvcp connects the checkbutton to the halpin with <halpin>"chbutton-sample"</halpin> the halpin gets it's name this way
[04:18:59] <owhite> yeah but if that's a pin, what other pin connects to it? I dont see anything in pyvcp_demo.hal
[04:19:22] <tomp> ah, yes, thisis only 1 end of the circuit
[04:19:52] <jmkasunich> nothing is connected to the checkbutton in the demo
[04:20:02] <jmkasunich> the regular button is connected to the led
[04:20:04] <tomp> :)
[04:20:37] <jmkasunich> when you run the demo, you get a halcmd prompt
[04:20:45] <jmkasunich> type "show sig" at that prompt
[04:20:53] <jmkasunich> you'll see three signals
[04:20:56] <owhite> oh. hm.
[04:20:59] <jmkasunich> one is connecting the button to the led
[04:21:19] <jmkasunich> one is connecting the scale to the number, and one is connecting the spinbox to the bar
[04:21:57] <jmkasunich> now type "show pin"
[04:22:07] <jmkasunich> you'll see that the checkbutton pin haws nothing connected to it
[04:22:28] <jmkasunich> but if you click the button, and then do show pin again, you can see it change
[04:22:56] <owhite> right. could I use linksp as in other .hal files?
[04:23:02] <jmkasunich> yep
[04:23:11] <jmkasunich> try this for example:
[04:23:35] <jmkasunich> unlinkp pyvcp.button-sample
[04:23:54] <jmkasunich> that disconnects the button from the signal "bit1" that goes to the led
[04:24:04] <owhite> yep.
[04:24:09] <jmkasunich> click the button to confirm that it no longer blinkes the led
[04:24:39] <jmkasunich> now "linksp bit1 pyvcp.chbutton-sample"
[04:24:41] <owhite> actually that didnt work.
[04:25:01] <jmkasunich> the unlink didn't work?
[04:25:30] <owhite> yep. didnt work.
[04:25:55] <jmkasunich> show pin still shows button-sample ==> bit1 ?
[04:26:22] <owhite> yeah.
[04:26:43] <jmkasunich> use the up-arrow key to scroll back in the history, check to see if you typed it right
[04:27:26] <jmkasunich> I get this:
[04:27:25] <jmkasunich> halcmd: show sig bit1
[04:27:25] <jmkasunich> Signals:
[04:27:25] <jmkasunich> Type Value Name
[04:27:25] <jmkasunich> bit FALSE bit1
[04:27:25] <jmkasunich> <== pyvcp.button-sample
[04:27:27] <jmkasunich> ==> pyvcp.led-sample
[04:27:31] <jmkasunich> halcmd: unlinkp pyvcp.button-sample
[04:27:33] <jmkasunich> halcmd: show sig bit1
[04:27:35] <jmkasunich> Signals:
[04:27:37] <jmkasunich> Type Value Name
[04:27:39] <jmkasunich> bit FALSE bit1
[04:27:41] <jmkasunich> ==> pyvcp.led-sample
[04:27:43] <jmkasunich> halcmd:
[04:27:48] <owhite> oh sorry I put that in the .hal file.
[04:28:15] <jmkasunich> oh
[04:28:40] <jmkasunich> the very best way to get comfortable with HAL (in my opinion) is to use halcmd interactively
[04:28:49] <owhite> it still hasnt hit me that halcmd is like an interpretter.
[04:29:05] <jmkasunich> its exactly like an interpreter
[04:29:10] <owhite> exactly. I havent gotten that point.
[04:29:11] <owhite> :-)
[04:29:20] <jmkasunich> in fact some of the devel have started referring to "the halcmd language"
[04:30:35] <tomp> i just got images for pyvcp http://imagebin.org/7209
[04:30:44] <tomp> an image widget
[04:30:44] <owhite> okay. so you I connected the checkbox to the LED.
[04:31:00] <owhite> er, I connected the checkbox to the LED.
[04:31:03] <jmkasunich> it works now? (clicking toggles the led)?
[04:31:08] <owhite> yep yep.
[04:31:13] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:31:32] <jmkasunich> now - you can (still using it like an interp) load the parport driver
[04:31:31] <owhite> as an excersize, the user shall try to put that into the .hal file. :-)
[04:31:48] <owhite> what!? oh that is too cool.
[04:31:48] <jmkasunich> loadrt parport cfg="0x0378"
[04:31:57] <owhite> 0x9800 :-)
[04:32:01] <jmkasunich> (or whatever address your port is at ;-)
[04:32:15] <jmkasunich> oops
[04:32:28] <jmkasunich> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x9800"
[04:32:35] <jmkasunich> (I forgot the hal_ the first time)
[04:32:51] <jmkasunich> show pin now gives you a much longer list
[04:33:19] <jmkasunich> the parport code isn't running though, because you have no realtime threads
[04:33:22] <owhite> right.
[04:33:27] <jmkasunich> next step:
[04:33:40] <jmkasunich> loadrt threads name1=foo period1=1000000
[04:33:47] <jmkasunich> that creates a 1mS thread called foo
[04:34:08] <jmkasunich> show funct
[04:34:16] <jmkasunich> will list the available realtime functions
[04:34:28] <owhite> parport.0.read
[04:34:31] <owhite> etc...
[04:34:35] <jmkasunich> yep
[04:34:40] <jmkasunich> addf parport.0.write foo
[04:34:51] <jmkasunich> will add the functiont that writes the port to the thread
[04:35:02] <owhite> okie/
[04:35:03] <jmkasunich> addf parport.0.read foo
[04:35:09] <jmkasunich> adds the function that reads the port
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> halcmd: addf parport.0.write foo
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> halcmd: addf parport.0.read foo
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> halcmd: show thread
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> Realtime Threads:
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> Period FP Name (Time, Max-Time)
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> 999849 YES foo ( 0, 0 )
[04:35:28] <jmkasunich> 1 parport.0.write
[04:35:30] <jmkasunich> 2 parport.0.read
[04:35:34] <jmkasunich> halcmd:
[04:35:37] <jmkasunich> show thread lets you see the result
[04:35:37] <owhite> yep.
[04:35:42] <owhite> very nice.
[04:35:44] <jmkasunich> the thread isn't running yet
[04:35:48] <jmkasunich> start
[04:35:48] <jmkasunich> starts it
[04:35:57] <owhite> okay.
[04:36:17] <jmkasunich> do you have something connected to your parport that is safe to play with?
[04:36:23] <owhite> time and maxtime have changed.
[04:36:26] <owhite> I sure do :-)
[04:36:30] <owhite> a little relay driver.
[04:36:36] <jmkasunich> right - that is the time execution time of the thread
[04:36:46] <jmkasunich> ok, what pin is a relay attached to?
[04:37:00] <owhite> 0-7
[04:37:05] <owhite> lets do pin 3
[04:37:23] <jmkasunich> ok, that will be parport.0.pin-07-out
[04:37:33] <jmkasunich> we already have a signal called bit1, controlled by the checkbutton
[04:37:34] <jmkasunich> so
[04:37:43] <jmkasunich> linksp bit1 parport.0.pin-07-out
[04:38:04] <jmkasunich> and (if everything is working right) you should be able to click the checkbutton and turn the relay on and off
[04:38:05] <owhite> righto.
[04:38:16] <owhite> un .
[04:38:21] <owhite> freaking .
[04:38:27] <owhite> real .
[04:38:34] <jmkasunich> got any inputs on that port? limit switches or something?
[04:38:45] <owhite> nope. all output.
[04:38:50] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:39:08] <tomp> frankenstein is alive (but write only)
[04:39:09] <owhite> so then I can roll all the above commands into a .hal file and be ready to roll?
[04:39:23] <jmkasunich> if you had an input we could make another signal, disconnect the led from "bit1", connect it to the new signal, and connect that to a parport.0.pin-??-in
[04:39:33] <jmkasunich> pretty much
[04:39:37] <owhite> yeah that'd be somehting.
[04:39:40] <owhite> would you anticipate....
[04:40:31] <jmkasunich> you can also tell halcmd "save" and it will generate a list of hal commands that re-create the current config
[04:40:53] <owhite> ...I use the univstep stuff. do you know of any problems with using that along with this system?
[04:40:57] <jmkasunich> save <filename> saves that to a file
[04:41:07] <owhite> right on.
[04:41:20] <jmkasunich> not sure I follow
[04:41:28] <jmkasunich> the univstep needs its own parport
[04:41:35] <owhite> sorry I am going with a two parallel port system.
[04:41:42] <jmkasunich> but if you have a second one, then yes, you can run hal stuff thru it
[04:41:47] <owhite> one will be for univstep, the other will be for this.
[04:41:56] <jmkasunich> remember - the univstep is also using hal
[04:42:10] <jmkasunich> if you start your emc, then open another shell, you can run halcmd there
[04:42:20] <jmkasunich> $ halcmd -kf
[04:42:29] <jmkasunich> will get you the halcmd prompt for interactive stuff
[04:42:34] <owhite> yep. just wondering if the threads or timing would somehow be incompatible.
[04:42:44] <jmkasunich> show pin and show sig will give you _much_ longer lists when EMC is running
[04:42:59] <owhite> makes sense.
[04:42:58] <jmkasunich> you don't use the threads command
[04:43:02] <jmkasunich> emc already has threads
[04:43:25] <jmkasunich> just add the "parport.1.read" and "parport.1.write" functions to the servo thread
[04:43:50] <jmkasunich> oops, parport.0
[04:43:51] <owhite> oh. I wont use: loadrt threads name1=foo period1=1000000
[04:43:55] <jmkasunich> right
[04:44:13] <owhite> well this is just amazing.
[04:44:17] <jmkasunich> if you do "show thread" when EMC is running, you'll see two threads
[04:44:20] <jmkasunich> servo and base
[04:44:33] <jmkasunich> on a univstep system, base is probably empty
[04:44:34] <owhite> got it.
[04:44:42] <jmkasunich> (its normally used for software stepgen, etc)
[04:45:03] <jmkasunich> servo is a 1mS thread just like the foo thread that we created
[04:45:12] <jmkasunich> halcmd also has help
[04:45:17] <jmkasunich> help show
[04:45:20] <jmkasunich> help addf
[04:45:21] <jmkasunich> etc
[04:45:25] <owhite> right.
[04:45:35] <owhite> who wrote it? youze?
[04:45:48] <jmkasunich> originally, but many folks have added to it in the last couple years
[04:46:08] <tomp> would it be good to have slower,not so important thread for user buttons, lights...
[04:46:16] <owhite> got it. the hal stuff is just so great.
[04:46:30] <jmkasunich> tomp: you could
[04:47:09] <jmkasunich> but simple stuff uses _very_ little time
[04:47:31] <jmkasunich> on my 1.6GHz box, 1mS is 1,600,000 clocks
[04:47:55] <jmkasunich> my foo thread (with parport read and write) is using an average of 10,000, and a max of 40,000
[04:48:14] <owhite> okay. I have everything logged. I'll start working up a .xml file for my little application. I'l l be driving all kinds of appliances now.
[04:48:32] <owhite> ventilation, motor power supplies, that sort of thing.
[04:48:39] <jmkasunich> the xml is just to define the pyvcp panel
[04:48:47] <owhite> yah I got that.
[04:48:50] <jmkasunich> then you use a hal file to connect ot
[04:48:54] <jmkasunich> it
[04:48:55] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:49:14] <tomp> take a look at the indow dressing http://imagebin.org/7209
[04:49:15] <owhite> earlier today they told me that are deprecating halvcp, and I should get with the program and do pyvcp.
[04:49:41] <owhite> really great stuff.
[04:49:58] <owhite> so. jmkasunich I do appreciate the help. I'm heading out.
[04:50:06] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[04:50:11] <jmkasunich> bedtime here too
[04:50:12] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[04:50:17] <tomp> nite
[07:14:03] <tomp> hey, this ubuntu wont recognize my paper tape punch ;)! http://imagebin.org/7212
[07:24:10] <K`zan> Night folks.
[07:29:33] <tomp> nite all
[07:52:04] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[07:58:07] <tray> Anyone able to help getting a PCI parallel port going?
[09:15:15] <tray> How many people here are running the latest version?
[09:18:41] <anonimasu> tray: I dont see why that would be a problem
[09:20:27] <tray> The PCI parallel port is a ITE chip, and when the computer turns on, the output of pin 2 is on straight away. I have a resistor & led across to pin25 (gnd) to indicate the status
[09:25:24] <anonimasu> ok?
[09:27:51] <tray> any suggestions on testing the configuration of the parallel port
[09:28:12] <anonimasu> not really
[09:28:22] <anonimasu> I used one a long time ago..
[09:28:24] <anonimasu> a very long time
[09:32:18] <tray> shame but if you think of anything I'm here. ;)
[09:36:57] <tray> I've got a c file that I believe is the driver, but not sure how to load the driver.
[09:37:17] <anonimasu> dont you have a kernel module?
[09:38:05] <tray> the file is parport_pc.c
[09:38:30] <tray> I got it from this site: http://www.emegatech.com.tw/download.htm
[09:38:40] <tray> It's the driver for the ITE chipset
[09:38:52] <anonimasu> isnt there one already with the kernel?
[09:40:05] <tray> I suspected that but I'm don't know how to configure it.
[09:42:37] <tray> or if I can configure it?
[10:01:56] <tray> righto, enough for today. Try again tommorrow. Take care. Thank you.
[11:12:57] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos you familure with PS/2 ?
[12:23:17] <a-l-p-h-a> morning people.
[12:53:54] <anonimasu> morning
[13:02:25] <a-l-p-h-a> thinking of making a gift for the GF... something off the mill.
[13:02:29] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, got any idears?
[13:03:14] <a-l-p-h-a> I have this... http://lloydleung.com/gallery3/Past%20Machining%20Projects/2004-03-04_Cube_1.5%5E3/
[13:04:43] <anonimasu> why not one like that?
[13:04:55] <anonimasu> write her name in the center ;)
[13:05:16] <a-l-p-h-a> I dont have tools long enough to reach the center... only to bore.
[13:05:38] <anonimasu> how big is that cube
[13:05:38] <anonimasu> ?
[13:05:49] <a-l-p-h-a> 1.5" ^ 3
[13:06:09] <anonimasu> 38cm
[13:06:11] <anonimasu> big :/
[13:06:23] <a-l-p-h-a> hmm...
[13:06:33] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[13:07:28] <a-l-p-h-a> maybe make a four tiny ones... like 1/2"... and make use thin thread to make 4, as little earrings.
[13:07:59] <anonimasu> that's pretty large
[13:08:06] <anonimasu> dont you think?
[13:08:11] <a-l-p-h-a> yeah... I was holding my fingers about 1/2" apart
[13:08:14] <a-l-p-h-a> then I thought about maybe 6mm.
[13:08:29] <a-l-p-h-a> then I thought about... how the heck am I gonna bore it out.
[13:08:38] <anonimasu> small tool..
[13:08:40] <anonimasu> pcb mill ;)
[13:08:49] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu,... btw, that's my gallery, that's mine... it's sitting ontop of my centre speaker right now
[13:08:56] <a-l-p-h-a> anonimasu, was gonna just turn it out
[13:09:16] <a-l-p-h-a> on the lathe, much easier.
[13:09:44] <anonimasu> me nods
[13:09:53] <a-l-p-h-a> http://lloydleung.com/gallery3/Past%20Machining%20Projects/2004-03-04_Cube_1.5%5E3/Cube%20xvid%204%20fps%2010%20no%20sound.avi
[13:10:42] <anonimasu> yep
[13:28:49] <skunkworks> went to ubunut channel by mistake. Gary is there. odd ;)
[13:29:08] <anonimasu> gary?
[13:29:15] <skunkworks> do you know him?
[13:29:18] <anonimasu> no
[13:29:24] <anonimasu> nevermind
[13:29:27] <skunkworks> :)
[14:54:46] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren winces
[14:54:47] <ejholmgren> 250MB across 10baseT
[14:56:40] <tomp> jepler: awallin: fyi, an image widget http://imagebin.org/7209 http://pastebin.ca/347263
[14:58:26] <skunkworks> ejholmgren: over 33 minutes
[16:15:08] <Giraya> friend alex joni, you know about contact a mavati?
[16:16:50] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, should be about 4 minutes
[16:18:46] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[16:20:25] <Giraya> friend alex joni, you know about contact a mavati?
[16:21:34] <alex_joni> http://membres.lycos.fr/mavati/
[16:22:53] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: really? I thought it was 10 megaBITS per second
[16:23:13] <skunkworks> oops - may have done the math wrong
[16:23:18] <SWPadnos> yep. that gives roughly 1 megaBYTE per second, and there are 240 seconds in 4 minutes
[16:23:43] <skunkworks> yep - didn't devide by 10
[16:24:22] <Giraya> fryen. is har talk witt he?
[16:24:44] <alex_joni> Giraya: sorry, I don't speak that language
[16:31:06] <Giraya> fryend. is hard talk witt he?
[16:32:00] <alex_joni> I sent him an email last time, and got an answer in a couple of days. so .. no, not really
[16:36:01] <Giraya> you get me your email (marc le)?
[16:37:00] <alex_joni> Marc Le Douarain
[16:37:00] <alex_joni> 28, vallée du LochTour Défense 2000 / Studio 32
[16:37:00] <alex_joni> 56390 BRANDIVY23, Av. Louis Pouey
[16:37:00] <alex_joni> Tél: (W.E.) 92800 PUTEAUX
[16:37:01] <alex_joni> Tél:
[16:37:21] <alex_joni> marc.le-douarain AT laposte.net
[16:37:55] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/users/mavati/
[16:38:13] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni; been stalking again?
[16:38:24] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: no, but I learned how to read
[16:38:27] <Giraya> watt is laposte.net, irc?
[16:38:34] <alex_joni> Giraya: ever heard of email?
[16:38:53] <alex_joni> AT = @
[16:39:45] <Giraya> ok i dont konw AT=@
[16:40:04] <alex_joni> "Electronic mail (abbreviated "e-mail" or, often, "email") is a store and forward method of composing, sending, storing, and receiving messages over electronic communication systems. The term "e-mail" (as a noun or verb) applies both to the Internet e-mail system based on the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) and to intranet systems allowing users within one organization to e-mail each other. Often these workgroup collaboration organizatio
[16:40:29] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni; I see a truncated message
[16:40:42] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: truncated where?
[16:41:39] <Giraya> amigo alex joni vai te catar seu grosso
[16:41:45] <jepler> Often these workgroup collaboration organizatio
[16:41:52] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, that's what I see
[16:41:54] <alex_joni> Often these workgroup collaboration organizations may use the Internet protocols for internal e-mail service.
[16:42:50] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9107SknOFl0
[16:43:41] <Giraya> friend i know the internet you not need this
[16:44:05] <alex_joni> Giraya: then I don't understand what you want..
[16:44:30] <Giraya> ok
[16:44:33] <alex_joni> you asked how to contact mavati, I linked you to 2 of his pages (which you didn't read, because they had his email address there)
[16:44:49] <alex_joni> then I pasted you his email address, and that still was not good enough
[16:45:32] <alex_joni> Giraya: and it's not nice to be disrespectfull, even if it's in a language I don't understand
[16:45:35] <Giraya> ok i stress
[16:45:50] <Giraya> the work is hard and pression
[16:46:04] <Giraya> i need this clp
[16:46:21] <Giraya> understand?
[16:46:24] <jepler> yeah I think alex here only speaks romanian
[16:46:45] <alex_joni> Giraya: if I were I would stop wasting time, and write an email to mavati
[16:47:09] <alex_joni> jepler: google helps with translations these days
[16:49:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni estou passado. vou dar um role
[16:49:21] <Giraya> i want to say for you one
[16:49:29] <cradek> 'I am passed. I go to give one rolls'?
[16:49:36] <Giraya> we a strange
[16:49:45] <Giraya> and i like yor work
[16:50:12] <alex_joni> well.. close enough
[16:50:20] <Giraya> we machines to made yor program
[16:50:20] <alex_joni> I am tired. I am going away..
[16:52:01] <Giraya> but the impression is that you dont like
[16:52:28] <Giraya> y can email for mavati
[16:53:10] <Giraya> thanks for all answer
[16:55:03] <Giraya> perhaps you dont interessanting in help for me
[17:15:04] <fenn> "support burnout"
[17:19:40] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[17:21:35] <a-l-p-h-a> lerneaen_hydra,? what time is it?
[17:21:50] <lerneaen_hydra> 6:20 pm
[17:21:57] <a-l-p-h-a> lerneaen_hydra, had dinner?
[17:22:15] <lerneaen_hydra> soon
[17:22:45] <a-l-p-h-a> damn you... I wanted to frag you.
[17:23:01] <a-l-p-h-a> unless you want to go a few rounds... and let me mop the floor with you...
[17:23:45] <a-l-p-h-a> lerneaen_hydra,!
[17:24:04] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[17:24:08] <lerneaen_hydra> you're on
[17:24:12] <lerneaen_hydra> which server?
[17:24:18] <a-l-p-h-a> loading
[17:24:45] <a-l-p-h-a> Mr. Rogers seems good 14/20
[17:24:58] <a-l-p-h-a> favourite it... as I used that server a lot
[17:25:07] <a-l-p-h-a>
[17:25:07] <lerneaen_hydra> adress?
[17:25:09] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[17:25:09] <lerneaen_hydra> nice
[17:30:02] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[17:30:10] <lerneaen_hydra> I didn't quite get how to aim
[17:31:36] <lerneaen_hydra> bbl
[17:31:37] <lerneaen_hydra> dinner
[17:32:27] <rafa> heloo friends you see one configuraration for me?
[17:39:20] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/ (image-to-gcode.py axis.py hal_manualtoolchange.py): more i18n
[17:39:50] <SWPadnos> rafa, can you post the file you want us to look at on http://pastebin.ca ?
[17:40:40] <rafa> yes
[17:40:59] <rafa> my friend in work its strees
[17:41:14] <rafa> its you help
[17:41:26] <rafa> sorry for he ok?
[17:41:30] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:43:25] <rafa> pastebin = www.pastebin.ca/347759
[17:44:01] <rafa> this idea no for emc
[17:44:10] <rafa> but classicladder
[17:45:01] <rafa> i want to only load classicladder
[17:45:04] <rafa> ok?
[17:45:11] <SWPadnos> if you only need classic ladder, you should download from mavati's page
[17:45:21] <rafa> yes
[17:45:31] <SWPadnos> there is no need to use HAL and emc for this
[17:45:32] <rafa> but i dont know ..
[17:45:45] <rafa> a correct funcyonaly
[17:46:02] <rafa> i need realtime
[17:46:21] <rafa> realtime need for hal
[17:46:25] <rafa> ok?
[17:47:26] <SWPadnos> classicladder should be realtime without HAL
[17:47:37] <rafa> i trought that needed hal..
[17:47:48] <SWPadnos> it does when you want to use it with EMC
[17:47:53] <rafa> because i wiky for emc..
[17:48:29] <SWPadnos> http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicladder/
[17:48:47] <SWPadnos> that page says that classicladder supports RTLinux, RTAI, and Xenomai
[17:48:57] <rafa> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Classicladder
[17:49:26] <SWPadnos> the wiki page is only related to EMC and the customized version of classicladder that we include
[17:49:30] <rafa> in tehe page says to use hal
[17:49:43] <rafa> " halcm -kf"
[17:49:46] <SWPadnos> if you only need ladder, then use the sourceforge calssicladder project
[17:49:55] <rafa> halcm for hal or not?
[17:49:59] <SWPadnos> there are two versions of classic ladder
[17:50:08] <SWPadnos> one that comes with EMC, and one that does not
[17:50:09] <rafa> ?
[17:50:20] <SWPadnos> you do not need to use the version with EMC to use classicladder
[17:50:31] <rafa> yes i need
[17:50:44] <SWPadnos> none of us are experts with classicladder - you will need to get help from them
[17:51:02] <rafa> because i made one process for automation
[17:51:11] <SWPadnos> so you need to go to the help forum for classicladder
[17:51:33] <rafa> ok friend?
[17:51:46] <SWPadnos> sorry, we can't help you
[17:51:48] <rafa> please one question
[17:51:53] <SWPadnos> ok
[17:52:02] <rafa> because classicladder in emc?
[17:53:00] <SWPadnos> classicladder was modified to work with EMC, but none of us knows much about it
[17:55:54] <a-l-p-h-a> lh, you stink. :) "8" points. hehe.
[18:02:38] <eholmgren> what are you playing?
[18:02:43] <a-l-p-h-a> ut99
[18:06:29] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/ (image-to-gcode.py axis.py hal_manualtoolchange.py): more i18n
[18:17:51] <tomp> what tools are used on ubuntu dapper to burn data cd's.
[18:18:07] <SWPadnos> right-click the ISO and select "write to disc" ...
[18:19:52] <tomp> sorry, data files, not an iso image. i imagine the answer is 'write to disk', so will try that
[18:20:37] <SWPadnos> oh - well you can create an ISO just by using the loopback device and copying files, but there are easier methods, I'm sure
[18:24:01] <tomp> ok, will try to make an iso first then use the rt click/write to disk method.
[18:24:28] <SWPadnos> I'm sure that's not the easiest way, but I don't recall what program(s) are installed by default
[18:24:33] <SWPadnos> for making discs
[18:26:23] <tomp> it has 'serpentine' but only for audio, and the drag to disk method built into the file browser you spoke of. I had problems with lotsa coasters from k3b, so wanted to try the 'right' way, so i could find what the error was.
[18:26:54] <SWPadnos> I know there's a gnome equivalent to k3b, but I don't remember the name
[18:27:02] <SWPadnos> G-something I bet :)
[18:27:10] <tomp> gtoaster ?
[18:27:19] <SWPadnos> gnomebaker or something
[18:27:37] <SWPadnos> I just fire up synaptic and search for burner or burning
[18:27:52] <tomp> yep, in there, gtoaster
[18:28:34] <tomp> thanks
[18:28:46] <SWPadnos> also accessories -> gnomebaker
[18:28:54] <SWPadnos> dunno if that's stock or if I added it though
[18:29:41] <lerneaen_hydra> random question, time dilation is proportional to speed, right?
[18:31:19] <fenn> tomp: usually the reason you get coasters is that the cd drive cant handle burning at high speed.. turn it down to 4x or so
[18:31:59] <skunkworks> as you bo faster - reletive time slows down. (time reletive to something stationary)
[18:32:02] <tomp> right, k3b's dialog is at 53x, and i want 8x and its grey:( i know
[18:32:13] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: it has an asymptote at c, so time will go 10x faster at .9c than at .99c
[18:32:53] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I see
[18:34:08] <rayh> tomp: I'd suggest stuffing a blank cd into the burner. Ubuntu will pop up a widget asking what kind of cd you wish to burn.
[18:34:13] <SWPadnos> the formula is 1/sqrt(1-v/c), where v is your velocity and c is the speed of light in the medium
[18:34:27] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I see
[18:34:34] <lerneaen_hydra> that's funny though
[18:34:45] <SWPadnos> ha ha
[18:34:48] <SWPadnos> why?
[18:34:51] <lerneaen_hydra> it would seem that the speed through the worldline is not constant then
[18:34:59] <SWPadnos> worldline?
[18:35:02] <lerneaen_hydra> speed_time + speed_spacial
[18:35:15] <lerneaen_hydra> err, speed_temporal + speed_spacial
[18:35:27] <SWPadnos> are you thinking of a 4-D velocity vector?
[18:36:30] <lerneaen_hydra> almost, a 1d spacial and 1d temporal universe
[18:36:34] <lerneaen_hydra> so 2d essentiall
[18:36:39] <lerneaen_hydra> but yes, that idea
[18:36:56] <tomp> rayh: thanks, that part works, and it tries to burn at a rate that it wont let me change, the dialog button is greyed out, thanks. i just installed gtoaster and it doesnt find the cdrw at all. i think i hav eto remove the newly installed 8255 & m2i50 boards and recheck ( it used to work )
[18:37:21] <SWPadnos> you have to understand the frame of reference thing
[18:37:39] <SWPadnos> both time and space change, by the same factor
[18:37:42] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, care to explain more?
[18:37:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, so the total speed is still conserved?
[18:38:13] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't say "conserved", and it depends on whether you're multiplying or dividing :)
[18:38:41] <lerneaen_hydra> the total "speed" through the universe
[18:38:43] <skunkworks> plus you have to get around the whole infinate mass as you reach the speed of light.
[18:38:47] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation
[18:38:59] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks; yeah but that's another matter
[18:39:11] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm thinking of speeds between 0 and <c
[18:39:32] <SWPadnos> that only affects acceleration - you need infinite force to get that last little bit if speed
[18:39:33] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: you have to specify what time frame the "speed" is in relation to
[18:39:52] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, that's true
[18:40:41] <fenn> SWPadnos: not infinite force, infinite energy
[18:40:58] <SWPadnos> same thing, once integrated over time :)
[18:41:03] <fenn> or at least that's the way things look from <0.0001c experimental setups
[18:41:39] <fenn> i think they're mostly just misinterpreting the equations
[18:42:06] <SWPadnos> or the equations aren't a perfect representation of reality
[18:42:09] <fenn> if you're transfering momentum to a particle in a particle accelerator using magnets, you're actually using an electromagnetic wave to push it.. but the wave cant travel faster than C
[18:42:49] <fenn> that doesnt mean that if you have a spaceship traveling at some fraction of C it will require more energy to accelerate
[18:42:57] <SWPadnos> if only someone knew how fields actually work ...
[18:43:06] <fenn> lots of people claim to
[18:43:12] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[18:43:31] <SWPadnos> people claim to know what they do, but not the underlying mechanism that makes them work
[18:43:33] <fenn> it's a lot of work to overthrow a scientific paradigm, especially when you dont really know all the details
[18:43:35] <SWPadnos> like "gravitons" ...
[18:43:53] <fenn> "graviton" is as semantically meaningless as "gravitational field"
[18:44:00] <SWPadnos> right
[18:44:24] <SWPadnos> and I'm not sure anyone knows how gravity is communicated with the fabric of space-time
[18:44:41] <SWPadnos> or B/E fields
[18:45:14] <fenn> i still dont see how the michelson-morley experiment "disproved" the ether
[18:45:43] <SWPadnos> I don't even remember what that experiment was - it's been so long since I've done it
[18:45:49] <fenn> there's a lot of similar concepts to the ether theory in "dragging" of intertial reference frames
[18:47:07] <fenn> basically it showed that the earth's rotation doesn't affect the speed of light
[18:50:19] <erDiZz> it can be shown that special relativity doesn't deny the existing of an absolute frame of reference
[18:50:40] <erDiZz> but that "absolute frame" can not be detected anyway
[18:50:54] <fenn> not if you dont look for it
[18:50:58] <erDiZz> s/existing/existence
[18:51:15] <fenn> absolute rotation is easy to demonstrate
[18:51:33] <erDiZz> it was about that theory of representing the universe as a cellular automation
[18:52:01] <erDiZz> imagine that the automate is an absolute frame of reference
[18:52:18] <erDiZz> then we have a constant speed of impact transferring
[18:52:54] <erDiZz> when a body achieves high velocity, the processes in it become slower, looks like "time dillation"
[18:53:42] <erDiZz> and "the twins paradox" is a matter of simple paperwork too in this case
[18:54:47] <fenn> why is that called a paradox?
[18:54:59] <erDiZz> fenn, because it's counterituitive
[18:55:24] <erDiZz> it's hard to imagine that there were two twins, and then suddenly one of them becomes older thatn the other
[18:55:38] <fenn> what if you had two twins, one who lived at sea level and another who lived on everest
[18:55:53] <fenn> the gravitational field strength difference would cause one to age faster than the other
[18:56:00] <fenn> or however you explain that in relativity terms
[18:56:33] <erDiZz> fenn, general relativity is a hard part with that cellular automate representation
[18:56:58] <erDiZz> it was claimed to be solved, but I didn't bother to read
[18:58:46] <fenn> its probably more like an octree, with "adaptive resolution", so you get all those weird quantum mechanics bugs
[18:59:08] <erDiZz> yeah, maybe
[18:59:24] <fenn> i dont really like the cellular automata explanation though
[18:59:42] <erDiZz> I have a plan to program a variable-resolution octree for collision detection once I have time
[19:00:42] <erDiZz> fenn, it's not required to use the cells to explain special relativity in terms of an absolute frame of reference with constant impact speed
[19:01:11] <erDiZz> the funny part is that the light travels with different speed in different directions there
[19:01:19] <erDiZz> but it can't be detected
[19:01:41] <fenn> it can be detected
[19:01:46] <fenn> gravitational lensing
[19:01:59] <erDiZz> fenn, no, because the moving observer considers those directions identical
[19:02:07] <erDiZz> ah, gravitation again
[19:02:15] <fenn> why does the light curve if it isnt traveling at different speeds?
[19:02:34] <erDiZz> fenn, I mean the vacuum case
[19:02:39] <fenn> and index of refraction..
[19:02:51] <fenn> gravitational lensing is the same as varying index of refraction of the vacuum
[19:03:15] <erDiZz> that's beyond my understanding already
[19:03:31] <fenn> index of refraction is caused by a different speed of light within a material
[19:03:39] <skunkworks> how can you change the index of refaction of a vaccum?
[19:03:46] <fenn> usually a material with higher density will have a higher index of refraction
[19:04:06] <fenn> skunkworks: it happens in nature around massive objects like stars and black holes
[19:04:09] <erDiZz> fenn, yep, I've just looked up 'refraction' in the vocabulary
[19:04:58] <skunkworks> fenn: I see. I wasn't putting togather the vaccum/gravitational lense togather.
[19:05:19] <erDiZz> hmm
[19:05:34] <fenn> i think its easier to say that the speed of light changes, rather than saying that "space is bent"
[19:05:36] <erDiZz> this gravitation<->cell density idea is interesting
[19:06:02] <Roguish> hello all. quick question. when i restart emc (with either gui) the last coordinate shows rather than zero. where is that info stored?
[19:06:16] <fenn> in the .tbl file
[19:06:18] <erDiZz> fenn, yep. more cells per unit mean smaller speed
[19:06:19] <fenn> i think
[19:06:57] <fenn> erDiZz: ever played mud's?
[19:07:02] <erDiZz> no
[19:07:08] <erDiZz> only saw it once
[19:07:08] <fenn> hmm
[19:07:09] <erDiZz> never tried
[19:07:35] <fenn> when you build a mud world, you have to link each "room" to the neighbors
[19:07:35] <Roguish> what .tbl? the tool table? in what directory?
[19:08:20] <fenn> oops its not .tbl
[19:08:23] <fenn> .var
[19:08:28] <rayh> What configuration are you running, Roguish?
[19:08:34] <Roguish> m5i20
[19:08:51] <Roguish> emc2.1.0
[19:09:50] <fenn> erDiZz: if you arent careful in your grid layout, sometimes you have to link rooms together so that there's more rooms to go from a to b to c than from a to d to c (that make sense?)
[19:10:33] <fenn> erDiZz: although you're going from point a to c you still need more hops along the way, and so it takes longer
[19:10:41] <rayh> It should be in your copy of the emc2/configs/m5i20 directory
[19:10:46] <erDiZz> fenn, like there was a heavier gravitational field in d, than in b
[19:10:50] <Roguish> yes, the .var file. thanks.
[19:11:06] <rayh> see that 5220 is set to 1
[19:11:17] <rayh> so that it starts with g54 active.
[19:12:04] <Roguish> what is 5220?
[19:12:11] <cradek> last position is stored in [TRAJ]POSITION_FILE
[19:12:50] <Roguish> taking notes now.
[19:13:04] <fenn> cradek: where did that come from? and why?
[19:13:48] <cradek> what do you mean?
[19:14:02] <cradek> why - because it's useful on a lot of machines
[19:14:23] <fenn> just wondering why it was changed.. it seems like it would cause more problems than its worth
[19:14:25] <cradek> where did it come from - we put it in a while back
[19:14:43] <cradek> if it's not useful for your machine, just don't use it
[19:14:48] <jepler> if you don't want that behavior, don't specify POSITION_FILE, and you get the old behavior (joints start at 0 every time)
[19:15:12] <cradek> it's very useful for stepper machines without switches
[19:15:18] <fenn> i thought the old behavior was to load the position from some variables in the .var file
[19:15:33] <cradek> no, that's never been the case
[19:15:49] <cradek> the coordinate system offsets are saved there, but not the absolute position
[19:16:06] <Roguish> where does one specify POSITION_FILE?
[19:16:15] <cradek> the ini file in the TRAJ section
[19:17:12] <rayh> Is this documented someplace?
[19:18:27] <cradek> I see it's in the user manual
[19:18:52] <rayh> thanks
[19:18:54] <cradek> 5.3.6
[19:19:29] <cradek> POSITION_FILE = position.txt If set to a non-empty value, the joint positions are stored between
[19:19:33] <cradek> runs in this file. This allows the machine to start with the same coordinates it had on
[19:19:35] <cradek> shutdown.5 If unset, joint positions are not stored and will begin at 0 each time emc is
[19:19:39] <cradek> started.
[19:19:40] <cradek> 5 This assumes there was no movement of the machine while powered off. It helps on smaller machines without home
[19:19:45] <cradek> switches.
[19:19:49] <cradek> sorry for the bad paste
[19:21:28] <fenn> hm. i wonder why they would bother saving g92 and g54 offsets if the position isnt saved
[19:21:28] <rayh> I see that this is a 2.1 thing.
[19:21:35] <Roguish> funny though, i have no POSITION_FILE line in my .ini file. i switched from tkemc to axis and back.
[19:22:49] <rayh> fenn the assumption was that the machine, rather than the interpreter handled this issue with home switches or such.
[19:23:11] <rayh> That's why the .var did not save current position during shutdown.
[19:23:54] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/po/de_axis.po: updated for EMC2.1
[19:24:40] <cradek> Roguish: if you have g54 offsets active, and your joint position goes to 0,0,0 you'll see nonzero values upon startup
[19:24:55] <cradek> Roguish: you can clear it with G10L2P1 X0Y0Z0
[19:24:56] <jepler> I just tried the distributed stepper/inch sample configuration, copied to my home directory. It does not have [TRAJ]POSITION_FILE and when started the next time it starts at (0,0,0)
[19:25:27] <Roguish> ok that explains it. i put in an offset while in axis.
[19:25:52] <Roguish> so it set the .var file.
[19:26:22] <Roguish> and tkemc followed suit.
[19:26:49] <Roguish> without the POSITION_FILE.
[19:28:35] <jepler> POSITION_FILE and offsets are different
[19:28:49] <rayh> another mystery solved!
[19:30:22] <Roguish> glad my ignorance could be useful.
[19:30:42] <rayh> glad you got it figured out.
[19:36:05] <cradek> fenn: because after you home, you get all your coordinate systems back
[19:41:02] <rayh> catch you all later.
[19:44:16] <Roguish> another question: the ferror value? if LINEAR_UNITS=INCH and ferror=1.00, then the following error limit is actually = 1.00" ?
[19:44:38] <cradek> yes at max speed it's 1 inch
[19:45:30] <Roguish> holly crap, i got something wrong then. i keep getting ferrors at ferror=1.0
[19:46:03] <cradek> yikes
[19:48:09] <SWPadnos> it only changes if you also have MIN_FERROR set
[19:48:29] <SWPadnos> if you only specify FERROR, then it's a constant regardless of speed
[19:49:33] <skunkworks> wouldn't this be an issue with base periods and feeds? Or no stepgen headroom. Assuming a stepping machine.
[19:49:50] <cradek> could be
[19:49:59] <cradek> what version are you using?
[19:56:46] <Roguish> 2.1.0
[19:57:09] <cradek> is it stepper or servo?
[19:57:47] <Roguish> servo, m5i20 with yaskawa ac servo drives and motors
[19:58:05] <anonimasu> cradek: when using a position file will it remember where you were, if you re home your machine?
[19:58:09] <cradek> maybe it's wildly mistuned?
[19:58:17] <SWPadnos> can you post your ini and .hal files?
[19:58:40] <jepler> anonimasu: POSITION_FILE is mostly intended for machines without home switches
[19:58:43] <anonimasu> hm ok..
[19:58:50] <cradek> anonimasu: the position file and homing are both ways to reestablish the machine position
[19:58:52] <anonimasu> does it store your offset if you have home switches?
[19:59:02] <Roguish> brb
[19:59:05] <anonimasu> the big mill at work does that..
[19:59:08] <cradek> yes but homing resets it
[19:59:26] <anonimasu> even if you power down you start up in the same coordinate offset..
[19:59:28] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, homing is what you use when the machine is running, the position file is what you use to remember the state of the machine between runs ...
[19:59:42] <SWPadnos> they're two ways of establishing machine position
[19:59:45] <anonimasu> yeah..
[19:59:56] <anonimasu> but, does emc store your position from the last run?
[20:00:21] <SWPadnos> if you set POSITION_FILE, then it does
[20:00:35] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: hm, here's the thing..
[20:00:38] <SWPadnos> that gets screwed up if you move the machine while emc isn't running though
[20:00:44] <anonimasu> lets say I do a rapid, my machine stalls..
[20:00:57] <anonimasu> I re-home it, will my offset (workpiece datum) be the same?
[20:01:32] <jepler> the homing process does not change gcode offsets
[20:01:52] <anonimasu> well, that wouldt be g-code offsets..
[20:01:55] <anonimasu> wouldnt be..
[20:01:56] <SWPadnos> machine zero is independent of coordinate offsets
[20:02:11] <anonimasu> I'd like it to store zero between runs..
[20:02:30] <anonimasu> or well "touch off" whatever it sets..
[20:03:06] <anonimasu> I love being able to run parts and then power down everything and re-power up the mill and just go to x0y0z10 and end up at the same place :)
[20:03:08] <jepler> the AXIS touch-off button sets the G54 offset which is stored between runs
[20:03:18] <anonimasu> jepler: thanks!
[20:03:24] <jepler> assuming that the "var" file is writable
[20:03:29] <anonimasu> nice that it works like real controls :)
[20:03:35] <jepler> and that emc is shut down cleanly
[20:06:40] <anonimasu> looks like a major thing I need is home switches
[20:11:15] <eholmgren> hmmrrnn... what can I do with the 18KV AC psu that I just got
[20:11:45] <eholmgren> where's the cat when I need him
[20:11:52] <anonimasu> eholmgren: tesla coils.'
[20:14:42] <jepler> anonimasu: yes -- it doesn't do any good to have emc know that the workpiece is at (1,2,3) from the machine origin, if emc doesn't know how to move to the work origin from an unknown position.
[20:15:08] <anonimasu> agreed
[20:15:43] <anonimasu> jepler: I need to do like 80 parts on the mill and I'd hate to lose my zero between them..
[20:16:25] <anonimasu> :)
[20:21:25] <Roguish> is there any simple, easy way to get axis.xx.f-error out to a file?
[20:22:26] <cradek> not really - but using halscope will give you a nice plot
[20:23:23] <Roguish> the gui output at the bottom of the screen is only to 3 significant figures. any way to increase that?
[20:24:07] <Roguish> change the format and recompile?
[20:24:16] <cradek> no, but you can turn up the scale and read it off the plot
[20:24:21] <cradek> yes you could do that I guess
[20:24:40] <SWPadnos> does halsampler/halstreamer work with parameters?
[20:24:53] <SWPadnos> (and is ferror a param?)
[20:25:22] <Roguish> yes, it's param
[20:25:29] <crepincdotcom_> cradek jepler jmkasunich_ : my school has a robotic arm exactly like the one in your simulation. If I pull some strings perhaps they'll let me try out the axis controls on it
[20:25:37] <crepincdotcom_> crepincdotcom_ is now known as crepincdotcom
[20:36:45] <a-l-p-h-a> alex_joni, my old company is closing down shop in California, and Toronto, to go to Romania!
[20:36:54] <a-l-p-h-a> alex_joni, www.embarcadero.com evil company
[20:41:38] <alex_joni> a-l-p-h-a: ok..
[20:41:43] <alex_joni> what do they do?
[20:41:55] <alex_joni> software?
[20:43:52] <SWPadnos> they don't seem to know much about short page titles
[20:44:11] <SWPadnos> <title>Embarcadero Technologies, Inc - Provider of strategic data management solutions that enable companies improve the availability, integrity, accessibility and security of corporate data.</title>
[20:44:32] <anonimasu> they forgot to add releive companies of overflow cash
[20:44:33] <SWPadnos> that would only fit in the title bar on my high-res monitor
[20:44:37] <anonimasu> "ibm db2"
[20:44:57] <SWPadnos> not just DB2, "IBM DB2 UDB for LUW"
[20:45:24] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:46:01] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, the company is a sweatshop.
[20:46:29] <SWPadnos> the guy on the front page does look a bit nervous
[20:46:49] <erDiZz> I'm working on EMC's gcode interpreter adoption. The question is about GET_EXTERNAL_ ("world-give-information") functions. If I understood correctly from the docs, they are not required to return real-time ("exactly at this moment") information, right?
[20:48:26] <erDiZz> are they called when nothing is moving only (or not)?
[20:48:34] <cradek> are they used anywhere except after probing? after probing the machine is probably stopped
[20:48:55] <cradek> I think probe is the only move where you don't know where it will end
[20:48:59] <jepler> the state desired is the state after any prior actions have been taken, and before any following actions are taken
[20:49:35] <cradek> that's a good way of saying it
[20:49:46] <erDiZz> so I can safely assume that they're called when everything is supposed to be stopped?
[20:49:58] <cradek> why not look and see where they're called?
[20:50:09] <erDiZz> cradek, I did
[20:50:31] <cradek> ok where are they called?
[20:50:34] <erDiZz> they are called from Interp::read
[20:50:47] <erDiZz> _and_ from set_probe_data
[20:50:54] <erDiZz> Interp::read confused me
[20:51:12] <erDiZz> ah well
[20:51:21] <cradek> I think that's one of the places I've been baffled too
[20:51:36] <erDiZz> it's when _set.probe_flag == ON only
[20:52:21] <erDiZz> and for the GUI I'll take the stubs that AXIS uses
[20:52:36] <erDiZz> more confidence is always better, thanks
[21:41:06] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/po/de_axis.po: updated, because the head was wrong
[21:50:49] <alex_joni> http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=232718&messageID=2398270&tag=nl.e406
[22:13:04] <Twingy> 6.493 kWh, yesterday was 6.543, no new record :)
[22:15:07] <robin_sz> or, nearly 30cents worth ,...
[22:15:27] <Twingy> ah, wrong channel
[22:15:51] <Twingy> $1.16 worth actually
[22:16:40] <lerman> Were those european numbers or american numbers. (Does the "." represent a 1000's separator or a decimal separator?) :-)
[22:18:10] <Twingy> american
[22:18:30] <Twingy> one point one six u.s. dollars
[22:19:06] <fenn_gohan> fenn_gohan is now known as fenn
[22:19:55] <lerman> I was referring to the 6.493 kWh. That could be 6 thousand plus kWh... since there was no context, it could be for a house or a town.
[22:37:33] <ds3> wheeeeee Gumstix has the RT extensions
[22:39:54] <ejholmgren> sweet
[22:40:00] <ejholmgren> did you pick one of those up?
[22:50:29] <tomp> rt
[23:47:07] <pier_port> hi all
[23:47:15] <ejholmgren_> yo
[23:47:28] <pier_port> looks I'll never get rt installed on this laptop
[23:47:54] <ejholmgren_> quoi?
[23:48:26] <pier_port> has anyone had problem installing RTAI on a laptop?
[23:49:31] <ejholmgren_> I know there are problems with rt and acpi sometimes
[23:49:57] <pier_port> ejholmgren_: do you think that disabling acpi could help?
[23:50:24] <ejholmgren_> I couldn't hurt
[23:50:54] <ejholmgren_> having problems installing rtai ... or using it?
[23:51:12] <pier_port> it compiles...
[23:51:28] <pier_port> but test programs not
[23:51:47] <pier_port> I get an error inserting rtai_hal.ko
[23:52:21] <pier_port> I have googled a lot so far..
[23:53:17] <pier_port> and tried with different kernels
[23:53:43] <pier_port> I'll try and disable acpi
[23:55:52] <pier_port> well... night all