#emc | Logs for 2007-02-01

[00:06:31] <crepincdotcom> < jackson3246> hey I'm running warcraft II with wine and I can't get my gnome-panels to go away when it's in fullscreen mode. any ideas?
[00:06:41] <crepincdotcom> DAMN RIGHT CLICK PASTE
[00:06:47] <crepincdotcom> sorry all, i know thats the third time
[00:10:13] <tomp> jepler: i used 'co -TRUNK' and got err "no such tag TRUNK", so, i checked cvs & see 3 trunks, trunk_pre-merge_7, trunk_merge-to_kbuild-0-1_5, trunk_merge-from_kbuild-0-1_3 ... which do i want? (sounds like we're leaving guhnome and moving to kde?)
[00:11:20] <tomp> cmd was cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -rTRUNK -d emc2-head emc2
[00:21:58] <jepler> tomp: to check out TRUNK you don't use a -r argument at all
[00:22:33] <tomp> so just cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -d emc2-head emc2
[00:22:55] <tomp> thanks
[00:24:25] <robin_sz> I think the word you were looking for is "HEAD" ...
[00:24:51] <jepler> tomp: I think "kbuild" refers to the kernel's system of makefiles -- kernel build
[00:24:56] <robin_sz> trunk is the main branch, if you see what I mean and there are multiple releases all along the trunk
[00:25:16] <robin_sz> head is the latest versions of files in the trunk
[00:26:33] <robin_sz> you cant checkout "the trunk" as it is multiple releases
[00:26:38] <SWPadnos> yes you can
[00:26:45] <SWPadnos> each branch has a HEAD, including the TRUNK
[00:26:53] <robin_sz> correct
[00:27:02] <robin_sz> you can co the head of the trunk
[00:27:11] <SWPadnos> head is the most recent version of files *for a particular branch*
[00:27:21] <robin_sz> exactly
[00:27:40] <SWPadnos> ok - it looked like you were saying sometihng else
[00:27:45] <robin_sz> which is exactly what I said above
[00:28:09] <robin_sz> the "trunk" is just the main branch and probably has 20 or 30 releases along it
[00:28:13] <SWPadnos> you said "head is the latest versions of files in the trunK" which is partly true, but not complete
[00:28:27] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:29:26] <robin_sz> the poitn I was trying to make is that you cant chekout "a branch" even the main trunk ... you can only checkout a particualr release on it, or the head. you cant co the entire thing ...
[00:29:53] <jepler> you can check out a branch or the trunk
[00:30:03] <jepler> the behavior is that you get the latest revision on the branch, and that "cvs up" gets you the latest one again
[00:30:13] <robin_sz> exactly
[00:30:18] <jepler> if you check out a revision, which is usually not what you want, "cvs up" will give you that same revision every time
[00:30:27] <robin_sz> it gets you a VERSION or the head,
[00:31:51] <SWPadnos> the same is true of a branch. you can checkout a branck (like v2_1_branch), and get a specific revision of that branch (such as "dec 25 2006"), or get emv1_`_branch HEAD, which is the latest on that branch ...
[00:31:59] <robin_sz> exactly
[00:31:59] <SWPadnos> gah - stupid typoing
[00:32:26] <tomp> cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -d emc2-head emc2 gave me a pyvcp_widgets.py dated today near 5pm, so i think using no -r switch was a good thing. i understand now that exclusion means give me the newest :)
[00:32:43] <robin_sz> right
[00:33:06] <tomp> thanks
[00:33:51] <robin_sz> its a wonderful thing, CVS
[00:34:58] <robin_sz> subversion might be better though :)
[00:35:09] <crepincdotcom> hah, how did i know that argument was gonna come up...
[00:35:16] <SWPadnos> git
[00:35:25] <jepler> I sure want to give 'git' a try on a project someday
[00:35:48] <SWPadnos> it seems to have some very useful features, like the "bisect" command
[00:35:50] <robin_sz> SVN allows you to rename files for example
[00:35:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: add see_also and description
[00:36:20] <robin_sz> renamin is a very messy issue in CVS
[00:36:25] <jepler> git is said to automatically detect renamed files
[00:36:27] <robin_sz> renaming is a very messy issue in CVS
[00:37:02] <robin_sz> and .. there is good svn support for doze too :)
[00:37:09] <robin_sz> tortoise svn
[00:37:30] <jepler> well shit
[00:37:32] <SWPadnos> I haven't been able to get tortoise to work with the equivalent of CVS_RSH=ssh
[00:37:35] <jepler> that's what has been missing all along
[00:37:43] <jepler> good support for windows in our revision control system
[00:37:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:37:51] <jepler> if we can get that I'm sure the vista port will be done soon
[00:38:10] <SWPadnos> vista EMC - all the DRM and half the resolution
[00:38:37] <robin_sz> to be fair, tortoise CVS is very good, way better than CVS support in any Linux desktop I've tried
[00:38:50] <robin_sz> it sucks when the dark side is better
[00:38:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: document see_also and description
[00:39:13] <SWPadnos> I like it, but I don't think it's a whole lot better than recent cervisia or (whetever the gnome version is)
[00:39:19] <jepler> is it some godawful GUI interface to CVS?
[00:39:24] <robin_sz> no
[00:39:52] <SWPadnos> it's actually pretty good, aside from some ssh issues, and possibly others I haven't detected
[00:40:01] <jepler> I mean, is it some GUI interface to CVS?
[00:40:12] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, dont think ive tried cervisia, does it integrate it into the desktop or is it a standalone app?
[00:40:20] <robin_sz> jepler, no
[00:40:36] <SWPadnos> it's a standalone app - no automatic cvs icons (that I know of)
[00:40:53] <robin_sz> jepler, it integrates CVS into the desktop, so you can see instantly which files or folders have changed etc
[00:41:16] <SWPadnos> you can also right-click in a directory and check out a new project, among other things
[00:41:17] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, thats the bit I like most, the way it just blends into the folders as a native part of the desktop
[00:41:20] <jepler> I am a big hater of all desktop software
[00:41:32] <jepler> desktop software is godawful GUI software par excellence
[00:41:41] <SWPadnos> heh - I would never have noticed with all the terminals all over your desktop ;)
[00:43:09] <jepler> the "desktop environment" is the set of apps that is hard to avoid running when I first log in
[00:43:09] <robin_sz> jepler, 90% of the time I would agree with you, nothing beats a nice simple xterm and a command line .. but Tortoise on Windows is just so good, it almost makes using Windows for developemtn nice than Linux somedays
[00:43:20] <jepler> robin_sz: I guess I'll never know
[00:43:26] <SWPadnos> well, I wouldn't go that far
[00:43:31] <SWPadnos> but it is nice :)
[00:43:53] <robin_sz> jepler, why will you never know?
[00:44:14] <jepler> robin_sz: because I'm way too proud to try it if I can avoid it
[00:44:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shrugs
[00:44:27] <jepler> I'd install the commandline CVS client first
[00:44:43] <robin_sz> always a good idea to see what the dark side are up to
[00:44:55] <robin_sz> tried Mach3 yet?
[00:45:37] <jepler> I've seen some version of mach
[00:45:40] <jepler> haven't used it
[00:46:06] <robin_sz> I wouldnt recommend using it for actually controllign anying
[00:46:09] <jepler> actually, that's not true -- I tried to run tort.ngc on it, and it popped up some error interpreting the g-code that looked a lot like an emc bug we fixed a few years ago
[00:46:19] <robin_sz> heh
[00:46:32] <jepler> some arc specification precision bug
[00:46:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:47:15] <robin_sz> we are catching up Mach integration now with the vcp stuff
[00:47:38] <robin_sz> in other areas we are way ahead
[00:48:11] <jepler> I'm very pleased that anders and tomp have been working on pyvcp
[00:48:43] <robin_sz> I'm pretty sure that soon we will have some sort of userland GUI tool for "drawing" vcps and laying them out with widgets
[00:49:19] <robin_sz> there again .. i havent been lookgn hard we may already have that :)
[00:49:34] <jepler> nope, I don't think so
[00:50:23] <robin_sz> it shouldnt be hard to write one better than the one in Mach ...
[00:50:50] <tomp> i'm sure we dotn have a gui editor for vcp... becuz i have xml files with thousands of lines, thus the need to break them up
[00:51:52] <robin_sz> it should be fairly simple to write an editor for the xml though
[00:52:09] <robin_sz> drag a button here, resize it ...
[00:52:16] <tomp> btw: get libgnomprintui-2.2, groff, libxaw7-dev, & readline5-dev to make 'configure' very happy
[00:52:23] <robin_sz> right click, link it to this hal pin etc
[00:53:52] <robin_sz> the big failing of the Mach layout editor is you cant align buttons with a layout line on the screen, each one has to be tediously placed by careful mouse positioning, and theres no "make all these the same spacing" layout tools
[00:54:09] <robin_sz> to make a neat layout needsa lot of patience
[00:54:51] <tomp> re the gui,,, there's tools available, but the hal pin and special options for hal-style widgets is a sticker ( look at the different designers like ERIC, BOA , Glade... they handle xml, but not xml for pyvcp )
[00:55:03] <robin_sz> someting using the same idea as the "rulers" in Gimp would be ideal
[00:55:18] <ejholmgren> or a grid?
[00:55:36] <robin_sz> tomp, exactly, and being OpenSource it shoudl be possible to build of one of them eventually
[00:55:46] <robin_sz> ejholmgren, yes, even a grid would help
[00:56:34] <robin_sz> tomp, the basic point I was making I tink is that a whole lot of the work needed for this to happen is now in place .. vcp and widgets lay the foundations on which a visual tool can be built
[00:56:49] <tomp> i tried making the 'look & feel ' then adding the hal stuff, i went back to hand wrangling it all ( i tried entity, BOA )
[00:57:34] <tomp> robin_sz: you're right: but i always have trouble getting into the other guy's code,,, there's folks here that can do it, but they have overly full plates
[00:58:01] <robin_sz> tomp, yeah, but the building blocks are in place now
[00:58:07] <robin_sz> thanks for that :)
[00:59:39] <tomp> whohooo new build done!
[00:59:56] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren pats tomp on the back
[01:02:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/vcpparse.py: get rid of debug junk
[01:04:35] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/ (pyvcp_widgets.py vcpparse.py): get rid of the need to specify 'elements' and 'parameters' by hand -- elements are found automatically, and anything not an element is a parameter
[01:07:07] <ejholmgren> here goes nothing ....
[01:07:27] <ejholmgren> installing ubuntu 6.10 on the main pc and killing win2k forever
[01:07:46] <jepler> ejholmgren: wooo go for it
[01:08:03] <ejholmgren> I never upgraded/bought XP :/
[01:08:17] <ejholmgren> I blame it on OS X
[01:08:18] <ejholmgren> :)
[01:08:47] <ejholmgren> everything is sitting happily on two 250G drives in raid-1 ....
[01:09:14] <ejholmgren> just have to get rid of the HD with the slackware install from an entirely different box
[01:09:58] <ejholmgren> package management will be like sitting on a nice comfy couch
[01:10:23] <ejholmgren> and eating pizza / drinking beer or something
[01:13:36] <tomp> jepler: i added every parameter to possible to pyvcp_widgets.parameters did you do away with that list? It was quite a long list, and the contents varied from 1 author to another ( 1 said 'container' was an option http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/frame.htm )
[01:14:19] <jepler> tomp: now everything that is not an element is treated as a parameter. It's up to the pyvcp_xxx class to give an error if an inappropriate element is given
[01:14:54] <tomp> ok, i think right now they're ignored
[01:14:59] <jepler> oh really?
[01:15:11] <tomp> try fred="blue"
[01:15:21] <tomp> i think
[01:16:18] <jepler> oh you mean <tag fred="blue"> ?
[01:17:00] <robin_sz> is there a DTD for the xml?
[01:17:01] <tomp> it'd be <fred>"blue</fred> , but i'm just getting back to running the new emc2.1 now
[01:17:45] <jepler> robin_sz: no
[01:18:13] <jepler> tomp: stuff like this works .. isn't 'text' a parameter? <label><text>"Spindle speed:"</text></label>
[01:18:24] <robin_sz> mmm
[01:18:33] <robin_sz> parameters are things like:
[01:19:12] <robin_sz> <spindle max_speed="3000"> ???
[01:19:14] <tomp> jepler: yes, for a widget that has a text option, like label and labelFrame.... exactly like that
[01:19:44] <jepler> robin_sz: sorry, I'm not referring to the XML concept of "parameter", but by a list of items that were (until my earlier change) listed in a Python variable called 'parameters'
[01:20:02] <robin_sz> ahh, got it :)
[01:20:16] <tomp> robin_sz: the parameters that pyvcp uses, are communicated using the framework jepler described
[01:20:56] <robin_sz> at some point a DTD will be useful :)
[01:22:07] <robin_sz> it would allow automatic checking of the document obviously, but also, could be used as the basis for an editor, becsue, for example right clicking on a widget, it would know what parameters are availabel to be set for example
[01:22:08] <tomp> btw: if you use an 'xml' editor on the pyvcp xml files, you'll get one even if you dont want it at save time, and a lot of 'em translate every " to &quot; arrgh!
[01:22:32] <robin_sz> ick
[01:22:33] <tomp> robin_sz: good idea
[01:25:17] <robin_sz> I think that EMC probably doesnt get as much user recongnition as it deserves , because until recently, the GUI has been a rather dull blue screen, with a few widgets that didnt exactly sing. I suspect alot of people didnt reallise just how much was there underneath
[01:25:44] <robin_sz> I suspect a GUI editor will elad to a whole crop of snazzy GUIs
[01:26:03] <robin_sz> and a big facelift, which may well boost uptake
[01:27:11] <tomp> robin_sz: i was wondering what the equivalent of css was to tkinter... setting a set of colors and window treatments, how to do that was nearly 'skins'
[01:28:47] <robin_sz> interesting idea .. of course, in vcp, you just need another xml file with the "skin" data in it
[01:29:14] <robin_sz> assuming youve used some sort of widget factory to produce widgets
[01:29:47] <tomp> jepler: i just tried <fred>"blue"</fred> and pyvcp didnt bark at me
[01:29:51] <robin_sz> are you familiar with the "decorator" design pattern?
[01:30:05] <tomp> nope, wazzat?
[01:30:12] <robin_sz> mmm
[01:30:18] <robin_sz> desing patterns in general?
[01:31:19] <jepler> tomp: tkinter has the X resource database for specifying the appearance of widges
[01:31:21] <jepler> widgets
[01:31:27] <tomp> yes, wikipedia has somethng on it ( and the uml that i'd like to handle the connections of the widgets to signals and pins )
[01:31:41] <jepler> unfortunately, the design of Tkinter makes the X resource database almost useless, because it depends on specifying the names of widgets to apply styles to them
[01:32:22] <tomp> jepler: thanks will look, but i >still < havent got to try your new tabs stuff with my new labelFrames and...
[01:32:30] <erDiZz> just for your imagination, it'd be cool if my 'gmync' GUI could talk to EMC as well. I even think it's not that impossible
[01:32:33] <robin_sz> mmm .. in a nutshell, there are various problems that come up and are solved most economically in certain ways. we tend to re-invent our own wheels all too often, so "deign patterns" is a basic set of odeas that solve these problems, in an efficient manner. its not language specific or even "gui" specific, its just a set of ideas
[01:32:47] <jepler> tomp: for instance, setting the "*highlightBackground" changes the default -highlightbackground for all widgets, setting *Label*font sets the default font for all widgets
[01:33:00] <robin_sz> the name for these ideas is "desing patterns"
[01:33:06] <robin_sz> design even
[01:33:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz slaps his typoing fingers
[01:33:19] <jepler> if Tkinter widgets had proper names that stayed the same from run to run, then you can also specify the color, font, etc. for a particular widget this way
[01:33:28] <jepler> but python uses names for widgets that differ from run to run
[01:34:14] <tomp> wicked, just *attribute !, but cant we specify the name in the xml? some DOM fiddling?
[01:35:07] <jepler> tabular layout for pyvcp: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pyvcp-table-layout.png
[01:35:30] <jepler> (the red color and bold font signify nothing of importance)
[01:36:15] <tomp> phew: ok i'm turning off the tts (txt2speech) that constantly reminds me how fast you guys work, and get back to work... thanks !
[01:36:24] <jepler> _tkinter.TclError: unknown option "-fred"
[01:36:31] <jepler> this is what I get if I have a <fred> in my xml file
[01:36:54] <jepler> the label widget was presented with a fred option, but refused it
[01:37:25] <tomp> i' just tried on alpha, with the result that it passed and displayed, and ran,, must be cleaner on trunk
[01:37:52] <tomp> <label>
[01:37:52] <tomp> <text>"test analog knob Widgets"</text>
[01:37:52] <tomp> <fred>"blue"</fred>
[01:37:52] <tomp> </label>
[01:47:13] <tomp> jepler: it must be something very very recent change you made , cuz it passes on emc2.1-head just gotten from cvs http://pastebin.ca/335031. if you dont get the same result, then you fixed it :)
[01:50:10] <jepler> tomp: so you think my behavior (an error for something that doesn't belong) is the right one? good, because I do too
[01:50:31] <tomp> yep good for me
[01:51:07] <jepler> tomp: it's a consequence of this change I checked in to TRUNK: "get rid of the need to specify 'elements' and 'parameters' by hand"
[01:52:18] <tomp> cool, i'll try cvs up ( we dont need crap in the xml files, & this'll filter it )
[01:56:43] <tomp> boohoo, fred's dead ;) no more garbage allowed
[01:57:07] <tomp> _tkinter.TclError: unknown option "-fred"
[01:57:15] <robin_sz> one thought ...
[01:57:33] <robin_sz> for back/forwards comaptibility ...
[01:57:56] <robin_sz> would it be sane to have a "strict" or "warn" pragma for this?
[01:58:57] <tomp> dont ask me , I write user-deadly interfaces :)
[01:59:12] <robin_sz> heh
[02:00:00] <robin_sz> I was just thinking of someone wanting to run say a xml file from a later version on an earlier version ...
[02:00:33] <robin_sz> cruft in files is baaaad, true, but there ought to be some way of telling it to be non-fatal if needed
[02:00:37] <jepler> it is not trivial to turn this warning into an error
[02:00:44] <jepler> er
[02:00:46] <robin_sz> --ignore-errors
[02:00:48] <jepler> it is not trivial to turn this error into a warning
[02:01:04] <robin_sz> it was just a thought ...
[02:01:07] <jepler> turning a warning into an error is much easier
[02:01:35] <robin_sz> I guess yo uhave to catch the errors in some sort of try/catch block?
[02:03:35] <robin_sz> whatever, it was just a thought ... I can imagine fatality being a problem when we have various layouts published and various different versions of emc out there and ...
[02:03:37] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shrugs
[02:04:18] <robin_sz> I guess it will enforce keeping the xml clean
[02:04:47] <cradek> I wish we would have added a version number and clean error for configs that are too old
[02:06:00] <tomp> a DTD might tip off the user before he gets too far into running a job, and suggest upgrading the system or running on older? ( only an entry in a log, but something he can use )
[02:08:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py: tabular layout, including Tk-style 'sticky', row and column spanning, and stretchy rows and columns
[02:12:53] <tomp> jepler: labelFrame ( saves space ) http://pastebin.ca/335052
[02:16:17] <jepler> tomp: I'll add that if you like
[02:16:23] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pyvcp-table-labelframe.png
[02:17:03] <tomp> jepler: i"m not sure about the packtype tho... plz look at that var
[02:18:27] <robin_sz> tomp, i guess its a bit liek web browsers versus web developemt tools ... in the dev tool you want to know about every little error, every missing tag .. in the browser, you want it to just do the best it can with whatver it gets, sorting out as much as possible. extra stuff is ignored, missing stuff is given sensible defaults
[02:19:11] <tomp> jepler: i like the spreadsheet like grid, i can use it for edm cutting technology (depth on off peak openV targetV jumpheight beer pizza... )
[02:19:25] <robin_sz> yeah grids are nice
[02:19:49] <robin_sz> right bedtime
[02:19:58] <tomp> g'nite, thanks
[02:20:05] <jepler> see you robin_sz
[02:20:11] <robin_sz> nigth
[02:21:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/vcpparse.py: now that add is used for all containers, get rid of packtype and assume support for add()
[02:36:15] <tomp> jepler: here's a checkbutton that is write once, designed for IOpin , yet allows std O pin checkbutton also (cfg'd via an xml option) http://pastebin.ca/335064
[02:37:27] <tomp> it stays down till xtrl signal releases it, the initial condition is also set by xml, so the btn may begin up or down, green or red
[02:38:13] <jepler> tomp: sounds good, but I am about to get called away from the computer
[02:38:54] <tomp> jepler: no problem, if you want i can post when you like ( i gave it 2hr life )
[02:39:52] <jepler> I probably won't get to it within that time
[02:54:25] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py: allow expand to be set for hbox/vbox contents
[02:54:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/.cvsignore: nf.py is now autogenerated by configure
[02:54:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: document new pyvcp developments
[03:28:52] <jepler> hi kc6lbj
[03:33:55] <kc6lbj> hi jepler
[03:34:50] <kc6lbj> New to EMC so I'm just watching what others are doing
[03:35:48] <cradek> it's been a little quiet as we're all recovering from the EMC2.1.0 release last weekend
[03:36:43] <kc6lbj> cool, I hope nobody broke any tools :-)
[03:37:12] <cradek> nope, it's going to be a good release
[03:37:18] <cradek> so how are you using EMC?
[03:41:37] <kc6lbj> I'm not using anything yet. My brother would like to have something for his woodwork. I looked around and came across this project.
[03:43:00] <kc6lbj> On personal note, a simple CNC router table is of interest to me. I'm not a machinist or of any such trade so it would take me a while to put something like that together.
[03:45:10] <cradek> I've seem some basic machines on ebay that might be a good starting point
[03:46:34] <cradek> wow, not cheap: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250076718944
[03:46:47] <cradek> and it comes with no motors or anything
[03:54:15] <tomp> jepler's new tabbed widget, handling m5i20 test configuration http://imagebin.org/7129 http://imagebin.org/7128 , the watchdog and estop reset always available
[03:55:45] <ejholmgren> kc6lbj: look at the DYI sections on www.cnczone.com
[03:57:46] <ejholmgren> fawk ... ubuntu refuses to install
[03:57:54] <ejholmgren> running memtest atm
[03:58:04] <ejholmgren> cdrom drive soon to be swapped out for another
[03:58:19] <ejholmgren> it keeps hanging at random points in the install
[04:00:09] <cradek> I have had that problem with a bad CD, even though the CD media check succeeded (!)
[04:00:57] <ejholmgren> this is the 2nd CD i've burned
[04:08:14] <cradek> does the media check pass? did you check the md5sum of your iso before you burned it?
[04:20:26] <A-L-P-H-A> sup folks?
[04:25:25] <ejholmgren> trying with a different drive now
[04:26:01] <cradek> ejholmgren: does the media check pass? did you check the md5sum of your iso before you burned it?
[04:26:13] <ejholmgren> media check crapped out fast on that other drive
[04:26:20] <cradek> ah
[04:26:31] <ejholmgren> burned the iso in osx as well
[04:26:42] <cradek> md5sum was right?
[04:26:47] <ejholmgren> on the wify's laptop
[04:26:50] <ejholmgren> yes
[04:26:59] <cradek> good deal
[04:27:20] <cradek> many ISOs downloaded over http are bogus - so I always ask
[04:27:34] <ejholmgren> this drive sounds a little better as well
[04:27:45] <ejholmgren> no out of place sounds
[04:27:56] <cradek> can you replace my car too?
[04:31:35] <ejholmgren> want to trade for a '96 aerostar?
[04:31:46] <A-L-P-H-A> aerostar?
[04:31:51] <A-L-P-H-A> is that a mini-van?
[04:31:55] <ejholmgren> kind of
[04:32:03] <ejholmgren> it's the XTL
[04:32:05] <cradek> ejholmgren: no thanks :-)
[04:32:22] <ejholmgren> the mustang is in storage ... so it doesn't count
[04:32:39] <A-L-P-H-A> xtl gears?
[04:32:45] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren is henceforth a jerk because he drives a mustang
[04:32:46] <ejholmgren> no
[04:32:56] <ejholmgren> the XLT van is longer
[04:33:06] <cradek> I had a mustang for a year - I thought it was a crap car
[04:33:13] <ejholmgren> not mucwhich year
[04:33:36] <cradek> it didn't make me a jerk - I may have started out that way though
[04:33:42] <ejholmgren> I have a '96 GT vert
[04:33:58] <ejholmgren> but the engine is total weaksauce
[04:34:06] <A-L-P-H-A> mustangs = organ doner vehicles. :)
[04:34:10] <A-L-P-H-A> death traps.
[04:34:19] <ejholmgren> heads and cams in the spring wi;ll change that
[04:34:27] <cradek> is that the 5 liter?
[04:34:42] <ejholmgren> 5.0 ended in '95
[04:34:49] <cradek> oh
[04:34:50] <ejholmgren> 4.6L thereafter
[04:34:56] <A-L-P-H-A> uncle bought a '07 mustang w/pony package
[04:35:12] <ejholmgren> v8 or v6?
[04:35:16] <A-L-P-H-A> v6
[04:35:51] <ejholmgren> hrrmmn.... cd drive on the install box is still seeking
[04:35:55] <ejholmgren> this could be good
[04:36:33] <ejholmgren> it never got past 25% of copying files before
[04:37:19] <ejholmgren> cradek: which year/engine did you have?
[04:37:32] <cradek> '01 with the little V6
[04:37:39] <ejholmgren> ah
[04:37:57] <ejholmgren> I think we've discussed this before
[04:38:00] <cradek> it wasn't the lack of power (it went plenty fast enough for me), it was the general crappiness of the car that bothered me
[04:38:49] <ejholmgren> I'm not too thrilled about that year body style
[04:39:37] <cradek> I thought it was ok, '06-07 is better, 65 is better still
[04:40:01] <ejholmgren> I'm a fan of the fox body 80's stangs
[04:40:10] <ejholmgren> although I have yet to own one
[04:41:11] <ejholmgren> 944 porsches seem to do something for me as well
[04:41:19] <A-L-P-H-A> eeeeeeeeew.
[04:41:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 944... this girl I knew had one... she loved it... but it wasn't a good car.
[04:41:48] <ejholmgren> I have bad taste, I know :/
[04:41:50] <A-L-P-H-A> too boxy
[04:42:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I love the Infinity G35
[04:42:09] <A-L-P-H-A> love that car... soo beautiful for me.
[04:42:09] <ejholmgren> that's nice as well
[04:44:14] <ejholmgren> there's a guy in town with a chevy malibu station wagon
[04:44:14] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: move the description part of the manpage ahead of the functions part
[04:44:22] <ejholmgren> with a 408 in it :/
[04:44:35] <A-L-P-H-A> argh... lightbox is broken.
[04:44:35] <ejholmgren> it lifts both wheels on the launch
[04:44:40] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich just wrote python! woot!
[04:44:56] <cradek> yay!
[04:45:02] <ejholmgren> woo woo1
[04:45:25] <jmkasunich> more like "cut-n-pasted jepler's python", but hey, its something
[04:45:58] <ejholmgren> it's an interpreted language .. anything goes ;)
[04:48:02] <tomp> g'nite all
[05:00:51] <ejholmgren> zomg ...it worked
[05:01:37] <ejholmgren> funny that the newer DVD-RW drive failed and the CD-RW drive worked
[05:10:30] <maddash> yay. done with my objectarx plugin. now I can sell it.
[05:23:12] <kc6lbj> ejholmgren: I stepped away for an hour. thanks for suggestions. I'm thinking in that direction. Need to do a lot of research before doing anything. I already learned a lot from this group so I appreciate experience exchange here and on the mailing list.
[05:45:35] <ejholmgren> kc6lbj: still there?
[05:46:29] <ejholmgren> I'm in the process of building my own cnc router as well
[05:47:08] <ejholmgren> I have the stepper motors / drives / ps ... etc
[05:47:19] <ejholmgren> just building the frame atm
[05:49:58] <kc6lbj> yes
[05:50:29] <kc6lbj> I guess I need another monitor to have IRC messages scroll by
[05:52:16] <kc6lbj> My interest was in getting a system with stepper motors but after looking into EMC I'm convinced it's better to use DC motors with encoders etc.
[06:01:42] <kc6lbj> cradek provided a link to CNC on ebay. That's not cheap! You need to add motors and all electronics. Anybody knows of reasonable ($) good source of aluminum extrusions?
[06:02:26] <jmkasunich> what kind of extrusions?
[06:02:37] <jmkasunich> fancy ones with slots for nuts and such?
[06:02:49] <jmkasunich> or just plain rectangular tubes and bars and things like that?
[06:03:17] <kc6lbj> yes, something similar to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250076718944#ebayphotohosting
[06:03:53] <jmkasunich> that kind of stuff ain't cheap
[06:04:02] <jmkasunich> (from anybody)
[06:04:30] <kc6lbj> I know, aluminum prices went up significantly in the last two years. China uses a lot of it.
[06:18:09] <maddash> omg I just discovered vbox
[07:37:40] <K`zan> Night all
[08:02:33] <ejholmgren_> ugh...
[08:02:45] <ejholmgren_> beryl is going to make me throw up
[08:03:07] <ejholmgren_> there's like water, fire, snow etc all over teh place
[08:03:47] <ejholmgren_> all the while this damnable cube is spinning around