#emc | Logs for 2007-01-27

[00:04:58] <robin_sz> Cable?
[00:10:10] <K`zan> Yes
[00:14:04] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[00:19:19] <Dallur> gn guys
[00:20:12] <erDiZz> night
[00:30:27] <anonimasu> night
[00:54:17] <ejholmgren> what kind of noise does a unix pirate make?
[00:55:02] <ejholmgren> XAAAAARRRGGSS!!!!!
[00:59:39] <fjungclaus_> fjungclaus_ is now known as fjungclaus-away
[02:12:49] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: wording
[02:13:09] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: wording
[03:07:54] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/bin/tkbackplot.tcl: backplot should expand when window is resized
[03:08:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/tkbackplot.tcl: merge rev backplot should expand when window is resized
[03:38:35] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: fix the case where the ini value is used to set a pin, not a parameter
[03:39:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: merge rev fix the case where the ini value is used to set a pin, not a parameter
[03:50:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: make gets work on pins as well, for symmetry with getp
[03:55:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: restore line that was accidentally deleted
[03:56:09] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: remove debug statement
[03:56:54] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: remove debug statement
[03:58:25] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: "halcmd getp" now gets pin values so use it directly instead of parsing "show" output
[03:58:44] <jmkasunich> cradek: thanks for the reminder - I saw a debug print from halscope, gonna fix that before I forget again
[03:59:24] <jepler> I do love to leave little turds everywhere
[03:59:30] <jepler> printf this and puts that
[03:59:54] <jepler> it's a terrible habit
[04:01:22] <jepler> good night guys
[04:02:45] <cradek> goodnight
[04:02:54] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:03:06] <jmkasunich> I think I just removed another jepler dropping
[04:03:26] <jmkasunich> scope_vert.c: printf("change_page: %d\n", page_num);
[04:07:34] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/sim_encoder.9: fix typo
[04:08:19] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/siggen.c: siggen control pins are inputs, not i/o
[04:09:20] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/sim_encoder.9: fix typo
[04:09:31] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/siggen.c: siggen control pins are inputs, not i/o
[04:26:41] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_vert.c: remove debugging print
[05:09:33] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/encoder.9: implement improved velocity output (much lower jitter, especialy at low speeds), also ensured that data transfer from the fast update() function to the slow capture() one is atomic
[05:09:34] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/encoder.c: implement improved velocity output (much lower jitter, especialy at low speeds), also ensured that data transfer from the fast update() function to the slow capture() one is atomic
[05:12:24] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[05:12:38] <cradek> goodnight
[05:15:13] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (9 files): many spelling/grammar/typo fixes
[05:18:07] <jmkasunich> copy those fixes to TRUNK.....
[05:18:28] <cradek> working on it
[05:18:32] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[05:18:34] <jmkasunich> nag nag nag
[05:18:47] <cradek> I'll thank you later for the nagging
[05:19:25] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (9 files): spelling/grammar/typo fixes
[05:20:03] <cradek> that was fun - I used cvs diff -D"hour ago" in the branch
[05:20:21] <jmkasunich> I committed stuff less than an hour ago
[05:20:44] <jmkasunich> stuff that was already in TRUNK
[05:20:47] <cradek> I don't think I screwed anything up - I checked the diff before I committed
[05:20:51] <jmkasunich> ok
[05:22:30] <cradek> manpage blindness setting in - goodnight
[05:22:36] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[05:25:21] <ds3> wheeeeeeee wrote my first non Hello World Palm program!
[05:42:11] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (comp.comp hypot.comp): spelling fixes
[05:42:45] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (comp.comp hypot.comp): spelling fixes
[07:48:01] <Jymmmm> Hey SWPadnos
[07:48:05] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[08:07:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: $450 http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/media_players/hd_mediabox.htm
[08:09:18] <Jymmm> Hey, they're in SJ!
[08:26:33] <fenn> lol 192khz dac and crystal oven
[08:26:54] <Jymmm> ?
[08:28:09] <fenn> in case you need to broadcast packet radio from your media player?
[08:28:23] <fenn> thru the audio port
[08:28:48] <Jymmm> well streaming, yeah.
[09:15:27] <fenn> "We are making the transition to the GPL license. " <- is this still true?
[09:16:13] <fenn> can i change it to say "EMC is entirely GPL and LGPL code." ?
[09:17:46] <Jymmm> From a legal perspective I'd say you couldn't.
[09:18:29] <fenn> why not?
[09:19:06] <Jymmm> There was/are questionable items that didnt' have the full "release"
[09:19:22] <fenn> that is a rumor that i'm trying to dispel, which is why i'm asking
[09:19:29] <Jymmm> It's not a rumor.
[09:19:48] <fenn> then provide something specific
[09:19:57] <Jymmm> The was code submitted, but no license/perms were "official" given, that I know of.
[09:20:20] <fenn> if it's not gpl or lgpl it doesnt belong in cvs IMHO
[09:20:23] <Jymmm> I don't have to, only a full code audit would do that.
[09:20:39] <fenn> you are parroting the exact thing that's bugging me
[09:21:02] <Jymmm> Well, talk to the board members
[09:21:12] <fenn> ok
[09:26:31] <Jymmm> Not trying to be difficult, just would rather take the safe route
[09:29:56] <fenn> if it's causing would-be developers to shy away from the project and make their own cnc control from scratch, it's a big problem
[09:30:31] <Jymmm> how many have questioned this?
[09:31:04] <fenn> i didnt know it was an issue at all until erdizz mentioned it (or whatever his name was)
[09:31:20] <fenn> when i asked him why he wrote mync
[09:31:27] <Jymmm> fenn check the irc logs for the last couple of years.
[09:31:55] <Jymmm> it's been a questionaable issue that long
[09:33:11] <fenn> people still believe the earth is flat, too
[09:33:37] <Jymmm> why are you aiming your frustrations at the messenger?
[09:34:14] <fenn> you arent saying anything helpful
[09:34:40] <Jymmm> Ok, fine. go ahead and make it say anything you want it to.
[09:36:42] <fenn> sigh.. guess i'm going to have to sign up to the mailing list again
[09:45:24] <K`zan> Night folks
[13:04:26] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:04:26] <alex_joni> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-27.txt
[13:06:49] <alex_joni> fenn: you there?
[13:56:15] <lerman> Good morning (mine) alex_joni.
[13:56:46] <alex_joni> hi ken
[13:56:52] <alex_joni> replying to your email
[13:57:27] <lerman> I just read fenn's email and as you saw, responded. I counted the number of files in emc2 -- about 3000.
[13:57:44] <alex_joni> lerman: I've been over them a few times
[13:57:49] <alex_joni> and the other board members too
[13:57:53] <lerman> A bunch of them have no license info -- eg.*.ini
[13:58:23] <alex_joni> lerman: I start to think that removing the license info from all is better, and keep a generic license on the whole package
[13:58:31] <lerman> The only way to put it to bed is to have a *formal* auditing process. -- That means with a document.
[13:58:34] <alex_joni> most the OSS software I've seen does it like that
[13:58:54] <alex_joni> lerman: that is ok, but will probably be based on TRUNK
[13:59:27] <alex_joni> I don't think configuration files need licenses
[13:59:40] <lerman> The problem with the generic license is the history. Someone can always pop up and say: Joe Blow wrote that piece of software and I don't remember the license being there.
[13:59:59] <alex_joni> I didn't quite understand that, can you expand?
[14:00:13] <lerman> Why not? If you copy a file, you need a license to copy it.
[14:00:48] <alex_joni> why would you?
[14:00:55] <lerman> expanding... There may be historical pieces that didn't have licenses with them. Some of that code is very old.
[14:01:49] <alex_joni> the code produced by NIST was released as PD
[14:02:06] <lerman> People copy the .ini files in the process of downloading them. The act of creating a file creates a copyright (under modern law).
[14:02:35] <alex_joni> that means anyone can take EMC1 (possibly minus 10% that was added later) and do whatever they want with it
[14:02:45] <lerman> To dispell the myth (if that's what it is), we should be able to define the status of each file.
[14:03:08] <alex_joni> I have no problem with dispelling the myth, if there even is one
[14:03:22] <alex_joni> as far as I'm concearned all the licensing problems have been taken care of
[14:03:45] <lerman> Yes. If it comes from NIST. So, each of those files should have a header saying that it was originally PD and the changes are GPL.
[14:04:07] <alex_joni> lerman: that is valid for emc1 only
[14:04:10] <lerman> But there is a myth... (erDIZz seems to believe it).
[14:04:42] <alex_joni> I am not going to track down all authors that commited code on emc1! and ask tehm under what license they implied their code/additions to be released
[14:05:04] <alex_joni> emc2 on the other hand started from a clear premise: GPL or LGPL code only
[14:05:42] <lerman> EMC2 has a variety of authors. We should have a firm policy and enforce it that any author who is given the right to commit to emc "signs" a document GPLing anything committed.
[14:06:13] <alex_joni> well there is one, it's just not formal
[14:06:31] <lerman> If it isn't in writing... it isn't.
[14:07:01] <alex_joni> ok, now taking care of the myth
[14:07:09] <alex_joni> fenn: hope you're reading too :)
[14:07:22] <alex_joni> I know of 2 licensing problems in the last year
[14:07:53] <lerman> Perhaps the board should send out a letter to each of the authors who ever commited asking them to reaffirm that everything commited is GPL.
[14:08:13] <alex_joni> 1. Paul made some comments about copyright infringements (referring to: a. 5i20 driver/work, b. genhexkins.* c. debian/*
[14:08:33] <alex_joni> these issues have beeen analyzed and confirmed as non-issues
[14:08:34] <lerman> I recall there was something about the mesa driver (or microcode) that was later resolved.
[14:09:03] <alex_joni> the Mesa work was GPL, and the rest of the work which is licensed by Pete Vavaroutsos (is also GPL)
[14:09:42] <alex_joni> b. the genhexkins were in fact written by Brian Register, but he was an intern at NIST when he wrote the stuff so it falls under PD, and moved to emc2 as GPL with the necessary changes
[14:10:14] <erDiZz> lerman, I just beleive that I don't have enough information
[14:10:28] <alex_joni> c. the fact that Paul's name didn't appear on the debian/* files was an overlooking on my part, and it has been resolved
[14:11:34] <alex_joni> the second even was more recent when Brett Smith (FSF Licensing Compliance Engineer) mentioned some licensing is problematic
[14:11:43] <lerman> I'm convinced. But if I were a manager at a large company wanting to integrate EMC2, I might be a little concerned by the lack of documentation.
[14:12:00] <alex_joni> s/even/event/
[14:12:12] <lerman> What did Smith have to say?
[14:12:31] <alex_joni> we had some license info stating GPL v2.1
[14:12:42] <alex_joni> there is no such thing, and it was simply a bad paste
[14:12:48] <lerman> Is that really a title Licensing Compliance Engineer? Is that really an engineer?
[14:12:58] <alex_joni> lerman: he signed the email like that
[14:13:12] <alex_joni> "--
[14:13:12] <alex_joni> "Brett Smith
[14:13:12] <alex_joni> Licensing Compliance Engineer, Free Software Foundation
[14:13:15] <alex_joni> "
[14:13:31] <alex_joni> we took care of the issue, notified him, and didn't hear anything else about other problems
[14:14:47] <alex_joni> lerman: to summarize: 1. I agree we can make an audit (it will probably take time, and the result is clear to me), but I agree that we should do it if people think it helps.
[14:15:26] <lerman> I agree.
[14:15:57] <alex_joni> #2. there are no issues regarding licensing in emc2 that I (or any other board member) know of at the moment
[14:22:09] <lerman> I just did a quick scan of files looking for GPL. Of 92 *.cc; 86 have the string "GPL" in them.
[14:22:11] <lerman> Of 160 *.c; 96 have GPL
[14:22:12] <lerman> Of 114 *.h; 56 have GPL
[14:22:14] <lerman> I'm not sure if that proves anything :-)
[14:24:19] <jepler> $ grep GPL /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL || echo "not found"
[14:24:19] <jepler> not found
[14:24:26] <jepler> i'd say it doesn't prove anything
[14:24:38] <erDiZz> scanning /usr/include in the same fashion shows that it is not quite common to make (L)GPL statements in .h files
[14:24:54] <alex_joni> erDiZz: that is correct
[14:25:12] <alex_joni> and if you look at the linux source tree, bet you'll find files with no license on them
[14:26:22] <erDiZz> * erDiZz experiences strange disconnects
[14:26:32] <lerman> And I suppose there could be some files containing the string: "This is not GPL"
[14:30:21] <alex_joni> lerman: not in emc2
[14:30:49] <lerman> Correct.
[14:31:02] <alex_joni> erDiZz: may I ask you why you think licensing is not clear with emc2 ?
[14:32:27] <erDiZz> alex_joni, I don't "think", I've just read a statement by something else. I gave you a link to that place
[14:32:42] <alex_joni> not me :) you talked to fenn I think..
[14:32:51] <erDiZz> one sec
[14:33:36] <erDiZz> it's here:
[14:33:37] <erDiZz> http://www.tuxcnc.org/pivot/entry.php?id=5#body
[14:33:39] <erDiZz> and here:
[14:33:41] <erDiZz> http://www.tuxcnc.org/pivot/entry.php?id=7#body
[14:33:50] <erDiZz> right at the bottom of both pages
[14:33:53] <alex_joni> erDiZz: I am sorry that site confused you
[14:34:14] <erDiZz> it didn't have any impact on me :)
[14:34:39] <alex_joni> I am sorry to admit that is an previous core developer of emc2 who forked the project, and it seems he didn't get quite well over the break
[14:35:16] <alex_joni> imo (as a board member) that is just FUD
[14:35:24] <erDiZz> there doesn't seem to be any traces of that fork except that site
[14:35:47] <erDiZz> and yes, that guy isn't accurate event a bit
[14:36:01] <alex_joni> erDiZz: he doesn't seem to want to be linked to emc2
[14:36:04] <erDiZz> I see that from what he'd written about mync
[14:36:17] <awallin> survival of the fittest I guess... only time will tell if the fork gets anywhere
[14:36:23] <alex_joni> actually the stuff he "talks about" at tuxcnc is not the fork of emc/emc2 I'm talking about
[14:36:52] <alex_joni> erDiZz: he has another project called BDI (brain dead install), which was a full OS with rt patches, and emc on it
[14:37:39] <alex_joni> he now has the same thing using some emc1/emc2 crossversion (libnml as in emc2, the rest of the code is based on emc1), compiled on 2.6 sarge
[14:37:43] <lerman> I'm still using a BDI.
[14:38:05] <alex_joni> lerman: and I'm not blaming you
[14:38:11] <erDiZz> that's not a bad idea to have such a thing
[14:38:14] <alex_joni> you're free to do whatever you like
[14:38:17] <alex_joni> erDiZz: actually it is
[14:38:26] <erDiZz> why so?
[14:38:33] <alex_joni> erDiZz: I see no reason to distribute/support a full OS
[14:38:41] <erDiZz> convinience is
[14:38:41] <lerman> I'll convert to EMC2 sometime -- when I have to.
[14:39:04] <alex_joni> we (the EMC/emc2 community) distribute debian packages compiled and tested for Ubuntu
[14:39:14] <lerman> How does the BDI differ in principle from Ubuntu.
[14:39:15] <alex_joni> there is also a Live-CD with emc2 & RT kenrel and all you need on it
[14:39:21] <erDiZz> alex_joni, that's quite limiting
[14:39:37] <alex_joni> the difference is that we do not support the distro itself, but only our packages on it
[14:39:42] <erDiZz> if one has to have a ubuntu install than he's restricted by its general-purposeness
[14:39:43] <alex_joni> erDiZz: limiting? how so_
[14:40:04] <awallin> bbl
[14:40:05] <alex_joni> erDiZz: I don't see why that is more limiting than a Sarge install?
[14:40:13] <erDiZz> it's about embedded software... general-purpose desktop distro doesn't fit into the picture very well
[14:40:30] <alex_joni> erDiZz: you are free to take emc2 and compile it on another system
[14:40:42] <alex_joni> we try to make it work on as many systems as possible
[14:40:44] <erDiZz> but if BDI is about somthing based on Sarge then, well, you're right
[14:41:13] <lerman> To me, the gotcha is the RT kernel patches.
[14:41:14] <alex_joni> emc2 has a subsystem called RTAPI (which is a layer of abstraction over RTAI and RTLinux, so you can use both)
[14:41:37] <alex_joni> easily one could add Xenomai if needed, or you could add your own kernel hacks :D
[14:41:59] <alex_joni> erDiZz: the idea is that we keep emc2 as generic as possible, but we chose one platform we like to offer support on
[14:42:06] <erDiZz> I like my kernel hacks. but I don't think others will like to compile the kernel with them
[14:42:13] <lerman> You can't just "install" emc. You need to do some kernel stuff; and not everyone is comfortable building a kernel.
[14:42:25] <erDiZz> that's why I'm about to provide somthing that is ready-to-boot
[14:42:26] <alex_joni> lerman: you can just install emc on Ubuntu
[14:42:38] <alex_joni> apt-get install emc2 is all you need
[14:42:48] <lerman> Is that because Ubuntu already has the RT kernel stuff?
[14:42:49] <alex_joni> kernel packages will be installed automatically for you
[14:43:06] <alex_joni> no, this is because we have kernel packages in the same repository as the emc2 package
[14:43:25] <alex_joni> they are simply installed as dependencies
[14:43:42] <alex_joni> users don't need to compile anything
[14:43:53] <lerman> Do other common distros besides Ubuntu support kernel packages?
[14:43:53] <jepler> we had to select some linux distribution as the one for which we would create and distribute kernel images -- we chose ubuntu
[14:44:01] <A-L-P-H-A> wth is a sloccount?
[14:44:11] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: counting sourcecode lines
[14:44:16] <erDiZz> Having packages in the main repository is a sign of maturity. I always appreciate that when deciding what software to use.
[14:44:43] <alex_joni> lerman: there are other distros that use kernel packages, but imo the Debian system is the most mature/easy to work with
[14:45:06] <alex_joni> we have some contributed kernel+RTAI RPM's for FC3 I think
[14:45:30] <alex_joni> but afaik it's a pain to properly ensure dependencies on FC for something like this
[14:45:53] <lerman> I do have a Ubuntu system running simulation only so that I can make interp changes.
[14:46:38] <alex_joni> switching from that to RT is a matter of 10 minutes
[14:47:08] <erDiZz> just out of curiosity
[14:47:14] <erDiZz> did you try my livecd?
[14:47:25] <alex_joni> erDiZz: nope :)
[14:47:57] <erDiZz> oh, well. the point is that I'm not sure about its bootability
[14:48:12] <erDiZz> I've tested it on only five quite similar boxes or so
[14:48:33] <alex_joni> can you give me a link?
[14:49:20] <erDiZz> alex_joni, http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173683&package_id=198959&release_id=471348
[14:49:43] <alex_joni> erDiZz: from looking at mync.sf.. I like your editor
[14:49:55] <alex_joni> it would be nice if you could distribute that as a separate app :)
[14:50:19] <erDiZz> it may look fine, but it's not that functional
[14:50:29] <SWPadnos> well - fix it! :)
[14:50:46] <erDiZz> and my g-code dialect is quite limited, so I don't want to put too much work into my interpreter
[14:51:01] <erDiZz> I thought about reusing the interpreter that you use in EMC
[14:52:19] <alex_joni> erDiZz: I see no issues with doing that
[14:52:42] <alex_joni> have you ever seen/heard about Mach2/3 ?
[14:52:56] <erDiZz> alex_joni, mee too. I'll hack on it when time comes
[14:53:12] <erDiZz> Mach2/3? is it about a microkernel?
[14:53:27] <alex_joni> no, it's a commercial NC control based on windows
[14:53:33] <lerman> That's a different MACH.
[14:53:35] <erDiZz> never heard
[14:53:49] <alex_joni> erDiZz: it seems to be quite popular on the DIY scene
[14:54:07] <alex_joni> sometimes people trust a software which costs 150$ more than one that's free :)
[14:54:34] <erDiZz> and how do they do real-time in windows? what do they use for that?
[14:54:43] <SWPadnos> not only is Mach based on the EMC interp, so is DeskCNC, and the interpreter that was put in the G-Rex
[14:54:45] <alex_joni> anyways, it started with the interpreter from EMC, and adapted that to fit their own needs
[14:54:55] <SWPadnos> he has a driver that takes over the timer interrupt for step generation
[14:55:09] <alex_joni> erDiZz: some custom kernel driver which makes it work most of the time
[14:55:17] <SWPadnos> it plays havoc with other stuff, in my experience (like winamp and all system timing delays)
[14:56:00] <erDiZz> it seems impossible to achieve finite response time without hacking the kernel
[14:56:29] <SWPadnos> it works OK, since Windows isn't as picky about what a driver can do
[14:56:41] <alex_joni> erDiZz: it sometimes happens that you get a handfull of pulses in a bunch with Mach
[14:56:47] <alex_joni> but they claim it's quite seldom :)
[14:56:57] <erDiZz> heh
[14:57:00] <SWPadnos> it all averages out, I'm sure :)
[14:57:51] <alex_joni> yeah, the total count sums up :D
[14:58:11] <lerman> To us, the question shouldn't be what's bad in Mach -- it should be what is good. We should find out what is good and then incorporate those aspects into EMC (where it makes sense).
[14:58:30] <lerman> That's why I'm working on my GWiz subproject.
[14:58:32] <SWPadnos> uh-oh. I hope Robin isn't looking ;)
[14:58:48] <SWPadnos> (but I agree with the principle)
[14:59:03] <alex_joni> lerman: I tend to disagree :D
[14:59:19] <alex_joni> we need to keep improving emc2 untill they start looking at what they can incorporate in Mach :D
[14:59:24] <lerman> In general? or is there something specific?
[14:59:32] <alex_joni> (which I'm sure they already do :P)
[14:59:32] <erDiZz> API docs on EMC or something like that?
[14:59:38] <lerman> Yes. That too.
[14:59:48] <alex_joni> erDiZz: depends what you need
[15:00:01] <erDiZz> alex_joni, say, the G-code interpreter
[15:00:02] <SWPadnos> I look at the question as "why does anyone choose "brand X" over EMC"?
[15:00:15] <alex_joni> erDiZz: Use the source Luke!
[15:00:21] <SWPadnos> if there's actually something useful, then it should be part of emc as well
[15:00:43] <alex_joni> erDiZz: joke aside, you can generate some doxygen info from the source tree
[15:00:51] <alex_joni> and that might be somehow helpfull..
[15:01:07] <alex_joni> but the interp. is basicly in a folder on it's own
[15:01:25] <alex_joni> and there are a few members to a class you need to mess with
[15:01:43] <erDiZz> oh, well. That's why the thing I'm doing at the moment is API docs. People never get the idea from the sole source
[15:01:44] <alex_joni> the interpreter calls some canonical functions based on the interpreted things
[15:02:00] <alex_joni> erDiZz: no, but you can always ask in here
[15:02:15] <SWPadnos> the canon calls are in the RS274NGC documentation
[15:02:57] <erDiZz> ah, I have that paper. just forgot about it
[15:04:05] <lerman> The source of emccanon.cc is pretty readible.
[15:24:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/ (hal.h hal_lib.c hal_priv.h):
[15:24:11] <CIA-8> make pin and param direction enum values distinct, and check direction of pins
[15:24:11] <CIA-8> and params when creating them. the enum change requires a HAL version bump
[16:32:47] <alex_joni> hi samco :)
[16:33:59] <DanielFalck> good morning alex
[16:34:16] <DanielFalck> or evening : )
[16:34:27] <alex_joni> hi there (evening here)
[16:34:56] <DanielFalck> I just purchased another lathe for work
[16:35:05] <alex_joni> oh, sounds nice
[16:35:05] <DanielFalck> Mori Seiki ZL25
[16:35:33] <DanielFalck> 2 turrets that communicate to each other through 2 processes
[16:35:47] <DanielFalck> might be 2 controls
[16:36:06] <alex_joni> http://www.emachinetool.com/usedcnc/catalog/vertical.cfm?ProductID=12848
[16:36:38] <alex_joni> quite a beast :D
[16:36:42] <DanielFalck> yes, like that
[16:37:12] <DanielFalck> interesting how the machining world calls it 4th axis
[16:37:32] <DanielFalck> kind of confusing if you've gotten used to 4th axis on a mill
[16:38:18] <alex_joni> 25 HP spindle motor..nice
[16:38:40] <DanielFalck> It uses a scheme that hands control back and forth to the opposite turret via M codes
[16:38:57] <DanielFalck> I really think that it has 2 seperate Fanuc controls built in
[16:39:03] <awallin> used or new ??
[16:39:07] <DanielFalck> used
[16:39:25] <alex_joni> awallin: you don't buy machines like that new :D
[16:39:34] <DanielFalck> I find it interesting how you sync the controls
[16:39:37] <alex_joni> 400k$ I think :)
[16:39:48] <DanielFalck> pretty pricey new
[16:39:59] <awallin> yeah, I would just be hesitant to buy something used... how do you check the ballscrews are ok and the ways etc
[16:40:18] <DanielFalck> I flew out to the shop and ran it
[16:40:50] <DanielFalck> I know that there's going to be a lot of work involved getting it up to our standards
[16:41:05] <DanielFalck> but even if we put $20k into it we're doing ok
[16:41:11] <DanielFalck> It ran fine
[16:41:26] <DanielFalck> but, back to the control...
[16:41:49] <DanielFalck> it syncs up by handing a m100 to the other control
[16:42:16] <DanielFalck> which acknowledges by having an m100 in it's program
[16:42:47] <DanielFalck> and then has a m101 in it's program that hands a signal back to the first control
[16:43:13] <alex_joni> heh.. so simple 2 bit sync
[16:43:18] <DanielFalck> I should say the controls don't wait either
[16:43:20] <awallin> DanielFalck: are you going to do an emc2 retrofit on this??
[16:43:42] <DanielFalck> no, just thought you might find it interesting how it does two turrets
[16:44:03] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: how does one control wait on the handover?
[16:45:02] <DanielFalck> just a sec
[16:45:33] <DanielFalck> wife is talking to me...
[16:46:22] <alex_joni> that happens :)
[16:47:26] <DanielFalck> head1 program:
[16:47:40] <DanielFalck> G code
[16:47:43] <DanielFalck> G code
[16:47:45] <DanielFalck> etc...
[16:47:52] <DanielFalck> M100
[16:48:16] <DanielFalck> can do more g code
[16:48:26] <DanielFalck> head2 program
[16:48:32] <DanielFalck> M100
[16:48:33] <DanielFalck> gcode
[16:48:35] <DanielFalck> gcode
[16:48:42] <alex_joni> oh, so the M100 is blocking ?
[16:48:49] <DanielFalck> M101 to get back to head 1
[16:48:58] <alex_joni> interesting
[16:48:59] <DanielFalck> something like that
[16:49:30] <DanielFalck> so just the basic idea of sending sync signals between controls
[16:49:36] <DanielFalck> is interesting to me
[16:49:53] <DanielFalck> you could possibly create a 12 axis control with emc
[16:50:08] <alex_joni> yeah, that's easy
[16:50:09] <DanielFalck> maybe not coordinated motion between all axis
[16:50:14] <alex_joni> the problme is with the G-Code
[16:50:15] <DanielFalck> but it could be interesting
[16:50:20] <alex_joni> right
[16:50:59] <DanielFalck> when you're at the control of one of these machines, you flip between programs by switching the head1 head2 switch
[16:51:23] <DanielFalck> you have to upload 2 seperate programs
[16:51:34] <DanielFalck> or type in 2 seperate programs
[16:51:41] <alex_joni> strange hack :D
[16:51:50] <alex_joni> bet it could have been hidden better from the user :)
[16:52:04] <DanielFalck> but that's how it's done by Fanuc and some others
[16:52:43] <DanielFalck> 2 seperate machines sharing one spindle
[16:52:59] <Vq^> * Vq^ waves at alex_joni
[16:53:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waves back
[16:54:01] <Vq^> * Vq^ is trying to figure out how to add a custom M-code in emc2
[16:54:48] <DanielFalck> talk to you later. gotta go work in my shop....
[16:56:22] <alex_joni> Vq^: make a script/program whatever, make it executable, name it M1xx and put it in the nc_files dir
[16:56:29] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: thanks for the info
[16:57:33] <alex_joni> Vq^: the entry in the ini is called "PROGRAM_PREFIX"
[17:17:33] <awallin> anyone know how to install .egg files in python (winXP) ?
[17:18:35] <tomp> http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs
[17:19:04] <alex_joni> Egg Verbis?
[17:19:21] <awallin> tomp: yes, but I get: zipimport.ZipImportError: not a Zip file: 'PyOpenGL-3.0.0a5-py2.4.egg'
[17:19:27] <awallin> with easy_install
[17:27:58] <awallin> now it worked, it seems I have OpenGL now, but still need GLUT
[17:28:11] <awallin> how can this be so hard??
[17:28:33] <alex_joni> :)
[17:28:47] <tomp> egg for PyOpenGL has been reported to do that http://blog.vrplumber.com/1710
[17:28:54] <alex_joni> "it was hard to write this. it should be hard to use it"
[17:30:01] <awallin> tomp: yeah, I got over that hurdle by downloading the .zip installation package instead
[17:30:11] <tomp> right
[17:35:17] <awallin> ERROR: PyOpenGL not installed properly. god dammit
[17:38:37] <awallin> f
[18:02:17] <alex_joni> awallin: not nice to cuss :)
[18:05:35] <jepler> neat -- http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=361611097&size=l
[18:11:13] <alex_joni> jepler: very neat.. what is it?
[18:13:32] <awallin> jepler: what lighting mode in opengl gives the 'flat' shading that's used in AXIS?
[18:20:13] <jepler> alex_joni: high voltage spark with an LED in the middle
[18:21:12] <jepler> awallin: most things are drawn with lighting disabled -- glDisable(GL_LIGHTING). the cone is drawn with one directional light, I think. see the function 'basic_lighting()' in the main axis script.
[18:21:39] <alex_joni> jepler: I figured that much, but wondered what the purpose of that might be
[18:21:55] <jepler> alex_joni: no purpose beyond looking pretty
[18:30:40] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[18:43:20] <owad> Any thoughts on converting an old 1990 HAAS VF1 to EMC control? Top right corner: http://www.quakercityauction.com/Auction6.html
[18:44:13] <awallin> sure, why not, if you have the time, money and patience
[18:44:52] <owad> It's got a 20-tool ATC, which, IIRC, wouldn't work too well with EMC.
[18:45:03] <awallin> what control signals do the motors take?
[18:45:21] <SWPadnos> ATCs are fine with EMC2
[18:45:25] <awallin> owad: there's nothing by default in emc2 for controlling an atc, but it's easy enough to program something yourself
[18:45:47] <owad> no idea. It has a broken HAAS CNC control, but doesn't say which model. I'm just now looking at the brochure that came today.
[18:45:49] <SWPadnos> there's a 24 or 25-position tool changer on the Mazak (at CNC Wrokshop)
[18:46:33] <owad> I think I may get this Benchman working, sell that, then buy something bigger like the HAAS.
[18:50:12] <alex_joni> owad: given enough time and patience you can get any machine working with emc2 :D
[18:50:56] <owad> heh
[18:52:12] <alex_joni> maybe you should do it like the CNC workshop
[18:52:30] <alex_joni> organize the thing, and let others pay you to fix your machine </joke>
[18:53:02] <owad> I'm thinking about coming out to that.
[18:54:32] <alex_joni> thats a good idea :)
[18:57:47] <owad> Has emc been used with any addtiive-type machines? like the reprap, or 3d printers
[18:58:29] <alex_joni> dunno.. maybe :)
[18:59:38] <owad> I've got a pair of robotic arms I'd like to do something with, and I was wondering about hooking a syringe up to them like the fab@home guys did with their device.
[19:02:07] <alex_joni> 6-dof's ?
[19:04:24] <owad> 5
[19:04:28] <owad> you're asking how many axis, right?
[19:04:32] <alex_joni> plenty for this :)
[19:04:34] <alex_joni> right
[19:04:42] <alex_joni> DOF= degrees of freedom
[19:04:45] <owad> It's a Microbot Alpha II+
[19:05:10] <owad> This one here: http://www.questechzone.com/microbot/alpha_specs.htm
[19:05:20] <owad> but that link only works in IE, unless you stop the page just before it's finished loading
[19:05:45] <alex_joni> I just noticed that :D
[19:07:20] <owad> strong enough to lift a syringe, 18.4" reach, .015" repeatability
[19:07:24] <owad> certainly good enough for a toy, I figure
[19:07:45] <owad> RS-232 interface
[19:08:01] <owad> it takes BASIC-like commands
[19:32:00] <alex_joni> hello
[19:32:04] <Whopper> hi
[19:32:20] <awallin> hi
[19:38:31] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, have you seen these? http://www.baumerelectric.com/en/shop/catalog/Winkel_und_Positionsmesssysteme/Drehgeber_absolut_Multiturn_BOMH_SSI_Dignalizer/
[19:39:10] <alex_joni> looking now
[19:39:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/html/gcode.html: g76 and typo fix
[19:39:21] <SWPadnos> on the subject of robot DOFs (and measuring thereof :) )
[19:39:56] <alex_joni> The page cannot be found
[19:40:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[19:40:19] <SWPadnos> they're 18-bit resolution absolute encoders
[19:40:32] <SWPadnos> and they have multiturn versions (I think 14 bits for the number of revs)
[19:40:42] <alex_joni> seems the Open Link feature decide to strip the trailing /
[19:40:55] <SWPadnos> bummer
[19:41:31] <SWPadnos> they're expensive as hell (in the $1000 range, I think), but very accurate
[19:45:35] <alex_joni> nice, but too expensive
[19:45:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:45:46] <SWPadnos> like most things :(
[19:45:55] <alex_joni> at least for robots (not sure about other areas) the current way to go is motors with included resolvers
[19:46:05] <alex_joni> I haven't seen an encoder in years
[19:46:17] <alex_joni> only on older systems (~1990)
[19:46:23] <SWPadnos> and an external battery-backed revolution counter?
[19:46:35] <alex_joni> nope
[19:46:40] <alex_joni> it's all in the servo these days
[19:47:07] <alex_joni> servo has some battery buffer, and saves position on shutdown
[19:47:18] <SWPadnos> so if the power goes out and the joint is moved, you will still be able to get absolute position on power-up, without moving the joint?
[19:47:19] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[19:47:30] <SWPadnos> what about motion when off?
[19:47:37] <alex_joni> if the joint gets moved while it's switched off, you need to resync it
[19:47:46] <alex_joni> but the brake should prevent that :D
[19:47:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:48:04] <alex_joni> the motors also have a brake inside
[19:48:08] <SWPadnos> ok, so maybe I'll have to think of something that hasn't been done yet :)
[19:48:13] <alex_joni> active without power
[19:48:16] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:12:12] <cradek> hi guys
[20:12:32] <cradek> there are a lot of new names today
[20:18:42] <alex_joni> cradek: plattschnauze is the guy from germany using the puma kins to control his bot
[20:28:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: improve discussion of INPUT_SCALE since there is no longer a second number. Remove paragraph that seemed out-of-place.
[20:30:21] <ejholmgren> just in case you missed it from last night ...
[20:30:34] <ejholmgren> what noise does a unix pirate make?
[20:32:46] <Ziegler> hi guys
[20:33:05] <erDiZz> Ziegler, XAAARRRGGSSS
[20:33:19] <erDiZz> just kidding
[20:33:33] <Ziegler> huh eh? lol
[20:34:09] <ejholmgren> XAAAARRRGGGSSSS!
[20:34:47] <Ziegler> any HAL experts lurking? I got a question about linking "halui.machine.is-on" to an out pin on my parport
[20:36:08] <Ziegler> XAAAARRRGGGSSSS
[20:36:23] <Ziegler> secret password?
[20:36:27] <Ziegler> lol
[20:37:10] <awallin> Ziegler: go ahead ans ask, I'm sure someone will answer
[20:37:43] <Ziegler> well... Im trying to link the gui machine on button to send a signal to my parallel port
[20:37:58] <Ziegler> so to hit a really and turn on my machine
[20:38:01] <Ziegler> relay
[20:38:16] <Ziegler> cant seem to get the files right
[20:38:23] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: baumer is nice..
[20:38:28] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: though I have no idea about pricing
[20:38:46] <Ziegler> in core_stepper.hal:
[20:39:05] <Ziegler> newsig PowerSwitch bit
[20:39:08] <Ziegler> linkps halui.machine.is-on PowerSwitch
[20:39:36] <Ziegler> in standard pinout.hal:
[20:39:41] <Ziegler> linkps parport.0.pin-05-out PowerSwitch
[20:40:05] <jepler> Ziegler: that sounds correct. do you get an error?
[20:40:23] <Ziegler> seems not to work as I cant load the gui unless I comment those lines out
[20:40:57] <jepler> Ziegler: do you know how to launch emc from the terminal? That way you can see the error message, if one is printed.
[20:41:13] <Ziegler> oh sure let me try that out.. one menent
[20:42:00] <jepler> did you activate support for halui by adding the lne 'HALUI = halui' in the [HAL] section of your inifile?
[20:42:24] <Ziegler> let me check
[20:43:06] <Ziegler> that goes in my stepper_inch.ini file?
[20:43:11] <jepler> yes
[20:43:19] <Ziegler> let me add it!
[20:44:51] <Ziegler> ok... errors changed.. but new error: HAL: ERROR: pin 'halui.machine.is-on' not found
[20:45:14] <Ziegler> I am using EMC2 - 2.0.4
[20:45:29] <alex_joni> Ziegler: there is no halui.machine.is-on in 2.0.4
[20:45:40] <Ziegler> :-(
[20:45:41] <cradek> you probably want to use axis.N.amp-enable-out
[20:45:49] <alex_joni> but there is a axis.0.amp-enable-out
[20:45:51] <alex_joni> right
[20:46:06] <jepler> alex_joni: are you sure? I see it in this version, which CVS says was the one in all the 2.0.x versions. http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup;only_with_tag=v2_0_branch
[20:46:06] <Ziegler> wha?
[20:46:15] <cradek> that is what you should use to enable your motor drivers, etc
[20:47:07] <Ziegler> so.... linkps axis.0.amp-enable-out PowerSwitch
[20:47:39] <Ziegler> ?
[20:47:39] <alex_joni> jepler: not so sure..
[20:47:50] <alex_joni> but it sure isn't started at that time
[20:47:52] <Ziegler> oh.... let me try it and see what happens
[20:48:05] <alex_joni> jepler: halui got started way later in 2.0.x
[20:48:39] <alex_joni> I think way after the HAL files were run
[20:49:02] <Ziegler> Woohoo!!!
[20:49:17] <Ziegler> so what is the latest stable of EMC2 now?
[20:49:28] <alex_joni> 2.0.5 right now
[20:49:30] <Ziegler> (that worked cradek)
[20:49:37] <alex_joni> but this will change in a few days
[20:49:49] <jepler> I verified that in 2.0.5, halui.machine.is-on exists, dunno about the order it is started though
[20:50:16] <Ziegler> I love this software
[20:50:26] <alex_joni> Ziegler: good to know that :)
[20:50:43] <Ziegler> I have much to learn...
[20:50:51] <Ziegler> but I am enjoying it
[20:53:59] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: use 2.0.x changelog along with the newer features
[20:54:11] <Ziegler> hmmm now I am getting a joint overide error
[20:54:25] <Ziegler> when I try to jog
[20:54:46] <alex_joni> joint following error?
[20:54:50] <Ziegler> err yes
[20:54:56] <alex_joni> are these steppers?
[20:55:06] <Ziegler> joint 0 following error
[20:55:07] <Ziegler> emc/task/taskintf.cc
[20:55:12] <Ziegler> yes they are
[20:55:26] <alex_joni> Ziegler: you are trying to get a velocity/accel which is too great
[20:55:33] <cradek> no, I bet you disabled stepgen.0 by linking axis.0.amp-enable-out to something else
[20:55:41] <alex_joni> oh.. did it work before?
[20:55:46] <cradek> that was already hooked to a signal "Xen"
[20:56:01] <Ziegler> yeah it worked a miunte ago
[20:56:09] <Ziegler> (excuse the typing and spelling)
[20:56:15] <alex_joni> ok, then it's as cradek says
[20:56:20] <cradek> you want 'linksp Xen parport.0.whatever'
[20:56:30] <cradek> you can see the Xen stuff in core_stepper.hal
[20:56:31] <Ziegler> what is Xen?
[20:56:41] <cradek> the Xenable signal
[20:56:43] <alex_joni> Xenable
[21:01:39] <Ziegler> that did it
[21:01:42] <Ziegler> !
[21:01:44] <alex_joni> nice ;)
[21:02:03] <Ziegler> is it serving another purpose in the file?
[21:02:16] <alex_joni> it also enables the step generator
[21:02:36] <alex_joni> when the machine is switched off, or in estop the step generator is disabled
[21:02:49] <Ziegler> I seee
[21:03:08] <alex_joni> on servo machines that happens to pid and dac outputs
[21:03:59] <Ziegler> now... I dont need exact details... but I should be able to do this the other way around yes? such as open a physical switch and have the machine power in the software open?
[21:04:09] <alex_joni> right
[21:04:31] <alex_joni> you can control ESTOP from the outside
[21:04:43] <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.emc-estop-in is the pin iirc
[21:04:59] <Ziegler> ok cool... what about the play and pause gui buttons?
[21:04:59] <alex_joni> there should be a linkpp in your file
[21:05:26] <alex_joni> you mean as hal pins?
[21:05:32] <alex_joni> those will be available in 2.1.0
[21:05:37] <alex_joni> in a couple of days
[21:05:38] <Ziegler> neat
[21:05:42] <Ziegler> OH wow
[21:06:11] <ejholmgren> just have to figure out how to dcc the dev team massive amounts of beer now ...
[21:06:20] <Ziegler> LOL
[21:06:39] <Ziegler> * Ziegler starts pouring into the obsolete floppy drive
[21:07:30] <alex_joni> send concentrate, we have lots of water available
[21:07:53] <Ziegler> LOL
[21:14:40] <awallin> anyone working with OpenGL: is there a limit to how far away the camera can be placed? I seem to experience such a limit...
[21:16:12] <jepler> awallin: when setting up a projection matric with gluPerspective, you specify 'near' and 'far' planes. items beyond those planes are not shown
[21:16:31] <awallin> jepler: yeah, that might be the problem. thanks.
[21:17:20] <awallin> yep! that was it
[21:17:36] <awallin> now I can read in an STL file, and I can start testing the z-slicing algorithm
[21:17:47] <jepler> it's desirable not to have zNear and zFar include too much 'empty space', because that decreases the accuracy of zbuffering
[21:19:21] <awallin> guess it can be set a bit farther than the bouding box of the objects
[21:20:32] <awallin> go dammit this SPE python editor. keeps crashing
[21:32:39] <awallin> anyone know a good book about UI design? how to organize a model-view-controller kind of program
[21:33:16] <awallin> even for simple things I find my ad hoc program is a mess and need serious re-structuring
[21:39:39] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: more changes documented
[21:39:51] <cradek> whew
[21:40:24] <alex_joni> oh cool
[21:40:47] <lerman> Some of the Smalltalk books did a good job of MVC description, I think.
[21:41:10] <cradek> alex_joni: we'll never know if we have everything :-)
[21:41:53] <alex_joni> right.. we need a real cattle prod
[21:42:10] <alex_joni> and start prodding people that improve emc2 and don't write it to docs/NEWS
[21:42:17] <alex_joni> I'm gonna make a motion on that
[21:42:19] <cradek> that's all of us
[21:42:28] <cradek> the cattle prod motion?
[21:42:39] <alex_joni> right
[21:42:48] <cradek> good luck finding a second
[21:43:05] <alex_joni> hmm.. how about a small buzzer in the computer chair?
[21:43:13] <alex_joni> remote controlled
[21:43:23] <jmkasunich> I'll second it
[21:43:27] <alex_joni> haha
[21:43:31] <alex_joni> thanks John :)
[21:43:39] <alex_joni> maybe Ray and Jon vote in favour too :D
[21:45:09] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5blbv4WFriM
[21:46:15] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[21:47:26] <robin_sz> *nearly* funny in places
[21:47:43] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofFb_eOxxA
[21:48:11] <jmkasunich> honey, why is the water bill so high?
[21:49:59] <cradek> haha "be quiet, I wanna put it on the web"
[21:50:07] <jmkasunich> ?
[21:50:19] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4v9PJZSygM&NR
[21:50:28] <jmkasunich> cradek: was that in the audio?
[21:50:33] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:50:38] <cradek> yeah at 01:54
[21:50:46] <robin_sz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPVlljVWqBg&mode=related&search=
[21:52:32] <alex_joni> hahaha.. they have mass youtube comments now
[21:52:35] <alex_joni> "please don't read this!
[21:52:35] <alex_joni> In 1945,a young girl named katu lata kulu came over to America in a grey boat from Africa. A mysterious man killed her by cutting the word "LATUALATUKA" into her back. now that you have read this measge she will come to your house on a full moon and steal your soul unless you follow these directions:
[21:52:40] <alex_joni> 1. Retype this message as a comment for three other videos"
[21:55:23] <robin_sz> and the other two things?
[21:55:33] <alex_joni> you'll never know HAHAHAAHAHA
[21:58:19] <robin_sz> I played with the welder today :)
[21:58:31] <robin_sz> buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ....
[21:58:37] <alex_joni> you shouldn't play with your welders
[21:58:47] <alex_joni> play with your wife instead :D
[21:59:00] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders that
[21:59:19] <robin_sz> for all you know, my wife might be a welder ;)
[22:00:09] <robin_sz> 210cm 102kg, tattoos and piercings
[22:15:08] <ejholmgren> O_o
[22:15:59] <ejholmgren> so many possibilities for innuendo
[22:17:30] <K`zan> Slow day on #emc today :).
[22:17:40] <anonimasu> lol
[22:17:42] <anonimasu> not really
[22:17:47] <anonimasu> I havent been around
[22:18:05] <K`zan> Ok, does that mean that now things are really slow <gs&r> :-)
[22:18:54] <ejholmgren> XAAAAARRGGGSSSS!
[22:19:15] <K`zan> c or v?
[22:19:52] <ejholmgren> -0
[22:22:10] <anonimasu> :)
[22:22:37] <ejholmgren> it could be slower ...
[22:22:49] <alex_joni> NAME
[22:22:48] <alex_joni> xargs - build and execute command lines from standard input
[22:22:48] <alex_joni> SYNOPSIS
[22:22:48] <alex_joni> xargs [-0prtx] [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]]
[22:22:48] <alex_joni> [--null] [-d delimiter] [--delimiter delimiter] [-I replace-str]
[22:22:51] <alex_joni> [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] [-l[max-lines]] [-L
[22:22:55] <alex_joni> max-lines] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] [-n max-args]
[22:22:56] <alex_joni> [--max-args=max-args] [-s max-chars] [--max-chars=max-chars] [-P
[22:23:00] <alex_joni> max-procs] [--max-procs=max-procs] [--interactive] [--verbose]
[22:23:01] <alex_joni> [--exit] [--no-run-if-empty] [--arg-file=file] [--version]
[22:23:03] <alex_joni> [--help] [command [initial-arguments]]
[22:23:52] <ejholmgren> like my 200GB transfer from an ata drive on a 40-pin IDE cable to a RAID-1 paired on the same chanel ...
[22:24:15] <ejholmgren> * ejholmgren winces
[22:25:27] <lerneaen_hydra> ejholmgren; ah, yummy
[22:53:19] <fjungclaus_> fjungclaus_ is now known as fjungclaus