#emc | Logs for 2007-01-24

[00:21:43] <owhite> hey people. I put a new PCI card in my machine to add an extra parallel port. any idea how I could check if the operating system sees it?
[00:21:55] <owhite> lsmod or something?
[00:31:37] <owhite> hey peeps. anybody home?
[00:37:11] <tomp_> lspci
[00:37:39] <owhite> what should I look for in the output of lspci?
[00:38:26] <tomp_> it should show a parallel port identified and an address lix 0xC000 or such
[00:38:31] <tomp_> like
[00:39:17] <tomp_> try it, and if you dont see what you want, pastebin the result, maybe i can help
[00:39:40] <owhite> drat. I dont see nuffin. I always forget where to post to pastebin. is it pastebin.ca?
[00:40:19] <owhite> pasting...
[00:40:19] <tomp_> http://pastebin.ca/
[00:40:45] <owhite> http://pastebin.ca/326325
[00:41:28] <owhite> all I did was open the computer, drop in the card, fired ubuntu back up. didnt know if I had to install anything.
[00:41:32] <tomp_> yep, the system doesnt recognize it, got any docs? who made it?
[00:42:11] <owhite> china. :-)
[00:42:18] <tomp_> i like china!
[00:42:31] <tomp_> any jumpers?
[00:43:02] <owhite> jumpers. hm. lemme look, I have to open the lid.
[00:43:55] <tomp_> dual boot sys? see if windows can smell it.
[00:44:20] <tomp_> (jumpers unlikely sorry if you already opened it up )
[00:44:56] <owhite> no jumpers. sorry its not dual boot.
[00:45:15] <tomp_> hmm, manufacturer, model # before you close it?
[00:45:38] <tomp_> or, it this the system you're speaking from?
[00:45:41] <owhite> jeepers I should really go back to school. I thought it would be recognized by the OS. do you think its okay if I yank the card to look at manufacturer?
[00:45:57] <tomp_> NO NO NON NO NO
[00:45:59] <tomp_> NO!
[00:46:01] <tomp_> and
[00:46:04] <tomp_> NO
[00:46:08] <owhite> oh. just to be clear, is that a no?
[00:46:23] <tomp_> it certainly was olly
[00:46:57] <owhite> hm. well, I'm hangstrung because I only have one machine available to me today -- the harddrive on my laptop died.
[00:47:52] <tomp_> well, this time write down and keep it someplace, maybe pasted outside the box
[00:48:19] <owhite> oh, here's a model number on the box.
[00:48:30] <owhite> no manufacturer, just a model number.
[00:48:56] <tomp_> and the winning # is ???
[00:49:22] <owhite> A-9835-1P2S
[00:49:44] <owhite> it appears also as A-9835-1P-2S
[00:49:53] <owhite> what do I win?!
[00:49:57] <tomp_> ao sound intl io card
[00:49:59] <tomp_> reading now
[00:51:16] <tomp_> 1 par & 2 ser?
[00:51:29] <tomp_> yes (doh)
[00:51:36] <owhite> would you believe the company is called "Generic"
[00:51:42] <owhite> yes. 1 parallel and 2 serial.
[00:53:02] <tomp_> should come with a 2nd rear plate to hold the 2 extra dongle db9s & AND a cd!
[00:53:11] <tomp_> made by asound international
[00:53:20] <tomp_> who ripped you?
[00:53:51] <owhite> huh. well it just was a little PCI card with a DB-25, and it has a dongle going to another 2 serial ports.
[00:54:11] <owhite> figure I got to find a driver for it?
[00:54:50] <robin_sz> beeble
[00:56:04] <tomp_> driver found here but win only http://www.asound.com/ProductDetails_cn.asp?ProductClass=36&ID=245 for linux, try to find the chipset :( = pull card again :(
[00:57:09] <owhite> okie doke. I'll power down, pull the card.
[01:00:21] <tomp_> argh, the zip file they have is munged too
[01:05:07] <tomp_> owhite: likely a NetMos 9835
[01:07:36] <fenn> should be supported in the kernel
[01:07:57] <fenn> try removing some of the other pci cards
[01:11:17] <tomp_> owhite: the info on the NNM8235 for use as printer port (1284) http://pastebin.ca/326354
[01:11:25] <tomp_> NM9835
[01:17:32] <tomp_> fenn's got a good idea, may be a clash, and defeat any on-the-motherboard parports too
[01:22:39] <owhite> I found docs!
[01:23:06] <owhite> http://pastebin.ca/326367
[01:26:00] <owhite> mr tomp_?
[01:32:16] <tomp_> owhite: (mr! woohoo!) i pastebin'd the same thing! no problem if you get it working :)
[01:44:04] <owhite> tomp_ wave hello if you're available.
[01:48:53] <tomp_> owhite: sorry, whats up?
[01:49:30] <owhite> hey. I found some documentation for my card....
[01:49:44] <tomp_> yep, any help?
[01:49:57] <owhite> http://pastebin.ca/326367
[01:50:15] <tomp_> look up, i pasted same one :)
[01:50:34] <owhite> it says I should be able to more /proc/pci
[01:50:41] <owhite> but there aint no /proc/pci
[01:51:25] <tomp_> can you view /proc at all? (huge)
[01:51:40] <owhite> yep.
[01:51:50] <jmkasunich> I just checked my dapper system
[01:52:00] <jmkasunich> no /proc/pci here either
[01:52:00] <tomp_> ubuntu dapper?
[01:52:13] <jepler> use the "lspci" command to view what's detected on the PCI bus
[01:52:32] <tomp_> did that, nada parport
[01:52:47] <owhite> yeah.
[01:53:07] <jmkasunich> the port itself might not be identified as such
[01:53:21] <tomp_> he pasted http://pastebin.ca/326325
[01:53:28] <jepler> "lspci" has the information that /proc/pci would have contained
[01:53:34] <jmkasunich> lspci might just show the PCI interface chip that connects the port to the bus
[01:53:35] <owhite> the docs also say I should be able to lsmod parport.o and that reports no such file
[01:54:16] <jmkasunich> owhite: I'd try doing lspci >foo
[01:54:26] <jmkasunich> then remove the card, and do lspci >bar
[01:54:28] <jmkasunich> and diff the two
[01:54:49] <jmkasunich> if something appears when you add the card, that is the parport (even if it don't look like a parport)
[01:54:51] <owhite> right. by the way I said lsmod parport.o, its insmod parport.o
[01:55:23] <owhite> jmkasunich: right. but shouldnt it also show an address like 0xC00 or something?
[01:55:28] <jepler> owhite: is emc2 installed on this system? If so, we've prohibited the Linux kernel driver for parallel port cards from loading by default
[01:55:44] <owhite> jepler: yes. emc2 is installed.
[01:56:07] <tomp_> owhite's lspci output is 10 lines long http://pastebin.ca/326325, the chip is a NetMos 9835
[01:56:31] <jepler> try: 'sudo modprobe -i parport_pc' to load the linux kernel parport driver
[01:56:38] <jepler> then look at dmesg to see if it detected anything
[01:57:40] <owhite> sorry, where is dmesg located?
[01:57:56] <jepler> run this in a shell: dmesg | tail
[01:57:58] <jepler> dmesg is a command
[01:58:01] <jmkasunich> just type "dmesg" on the command line
[01:58:03] <owhite> sorry, I forgot its a command.
[01:58:10] <owhite> right. okay.
[01:58:10] <jepler> I got these lines when I ran that command (I just have the onboard parport): http://pastebin.ca/326402
[01:58:20] <owhite> parport: PnPBIOS parport detected.
[01:58:31] <owhite> parport0: PC-style at 0x378, irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP]
[01:58:39] <owhite> lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven).
[01:58:45] <owhite> sorry I hope the spam is okay.
[01:58:53] <jmkasunich> three lines is fine
[01:58:59] <jmkasunich> 10 isn't ;-)
[01:59:09] <owhite> :-)
[01:59:24] <jepler> that's likely to be the onboard port unless you don't have one -- I'd say nothing in linux is detecting the presence of this card
[01:59:26] <owhite> so I am interpretting that to mean I just have one parport, 0x378
[01:59:27] <tomp_> is that the mobo parport, not pci
[01:59:30] <owhite> right.
[01:59:39] <jmkasunich> some channels/servers wull auto-kick you if you paste too many lines too fast
[02:00:11] <jmkasunich> did I hear you say this was a multi-function card?
[02:00:32] <tomp_> jmk: 2 ser 1 par NM9835 chipset
[02:01:29] <tomp_> owhite: did you disable the motherboard parport in bios? or see if there was one in bios?
[02:01:31] <jepler> in 2005 this person was getting 'lspic' entries for that chipset: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-parport/2005-February/000251.html
[02:01:36] <jepler> I am really surprised there's not a pci card entry for it
[02:02:31] <jmkasunich> is the card known to be functional?
[02:02:32] <owhite> the card is identical in appearance to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815166006
[02:03:22] <owhite> tomp_ I tried disabling the mobo parallel port in bios. rebooted, and I dont think anything was loaded based on using lspci
[02:04:59] <owhite> jmkasunich: the docs for the card are here: http://pastebin.ca/326367 it gave me the impression I could use this under linux. I dunno.
[02:05:09] <SWPadnos> you can also try lspci -vvv, possibly with sudo (though I think the extra information from sudo isn't useful)
[02:05:18] <jmkasunich> owhite: yeah, I already read that page
[02:05:29] <tomp_> ok, it must still be disabled ( at least mobo pport not seen by any linux tools ), jmk asked... did it >ever< work?
[02:05:43] <jmkasunich> and thats why I asked if the card is known to work
[02:05:55] <jmkasunich> that page says it should show up on lspci, but it doesn't...
[02:06:00] <jtr> Try to load the parport driver again?
[02:06:00] <jmkasunich> so maybe its busted
[02:06:04] <owhite> oh. ever work? I just bought it and threw it in.
[02:06:17] <tomp_> wrong direction :)
[02:06:30] <tomp_> throw it out :)
[02:06:51] <jmkasunich> do you have another PC you could try it in (maybe a doze box?)
[02:06:59] <owhite> right. well it came from china, so it must be under superior quality control.
[02:07:09] <skunkworks> omg - windows? ;)
[02:07:15] <owhite> sorry, no I cant check with another box.
[02:07:35] <owhite> I think you lack imagination to be blaming the -hardware itself- :-)
[02:07:36] <jmkasunich> then take it back and tell them it doesn't work
[02:07:46] <jmkasunich> you don't have to tell them it doesn't work with linux
[02:07:55] <jmkasunich> why?
[02:08:04] <jmkasunich> anything, including hardware, can be busted
[02:08:25] <jmkasunich> lots of low end consumer electronics is never functionally tested
[02:08:25] <SWPadnos> trust him - he designs hardware ;)
[02:08:32] <owhite> well I feel like I get a fairly small budget of using everyone's time, and I'm running out very quickly. :-)
[02:08:33] <jmkasunich> the customer is the quality control
[02:08:54] <owhite> I can try testing the card somehow.
[02:09:03] <tomp_> it came incomplete, no cd as it should have according to maker 'asound', so it was an opened box ???
[02:09:05] <skunkworks> owhite: if they have not banned me yet - you have no problem. ;)
[02:09:16] <jmkasunich> yeah, don't worry about time
[02:09:23] <owhite> no actually it had a CD.
[02:09:45] <jmkasunich> its just that, when you've checked the basics, its time to go back to troubleshooting 101
[02:09:52] <jmkasunich> what works, what doesn't
[02:10:04] <owhite> righto.
[02:10:13] <jmkasunich> if you can't find _anything_ that recognizes the existance of the board, then maybe its dead
[02:10:57] <owhite> this is getting philosophical. "I am detected, therefore I am".
[02:11:09] <jmkasunich> heh, thats about it
[02:11:28] <jmkasunich> its funny - a parport is about 100-200 gates
[02:11:34] <SWPadnos> owhite, have you tried lspci -vv ?
[02:11:41] <owhite> *tries*
[02:11:44] <jmkasunich> but the interface to the PCI bus, with detection and all that crap, is probably 20,000 gates
[02:11:58] <SWPadnos> that's what the PLX chip is for ;)
[02:12:13] <owhite> wow. what should I look for in that output?
[02:12:15] <jmkasunich> the PLX chip that seems dead
[02:12:40] <SWPadnos> (plx on the 5i20 - owhite probably has a single chip board)
[02:12:54] <SWPadnos> pastebin it
[02:12:55] <jmkasunich> oh
[02:12:55] <tomp_> look for "parallel" or "1284"
[02:13:02] <jmkasunich> pastebin it
[02:13:13] <jmkasunich> then look for parallel or 1284 ;-)
[02:13:22] <SWPadnos> in parallel
[02:13:45] <jmkasunich> in series - because once its pastebin'ed the browser can do the search for you
[02:13:47] <owhite> http://pastebin.ca/326418
[02:13:56] <SWPadnos> but we can all look in parallel
[02:13:57] <tomp_> check pastebin for NM9835
[02:14:52] <jmkasunich> nada
[02:14:55] <tomp_> i'm playing new orleans jazz band funeral music
[02:15:01] <owhite> magic eightball says future uncertain.
[02:15:03] <jmkasunich> parallel, 1284, epp, ecp, 9835, nada
[02:15:09] <SWPadnos> nope - I don't see it either
[02:15:26] <owhite> robin_sz: did you see anything?!
[02:15:31] <owhite> :-)
[02:15:39] <owhite> survey says NADA!
[02:15:42] <SWPadnos> you can try a different PCI slot, but other tahn that, it looks like crapola
[02:15:42] <tomp_> looks like it, smells, like it, tastes like it, might be ^%!!#
[02:16:01] <owhite> hey, the _slot_ could be screwy?
[02:16:04] <jmkasunich> did you get it from a local store, or mail-order?
[02:16:16] <owhite> local store.
[02:16:16] <jmkasunich> anything is possible
[02:16:20] <owhite> I even have the receipt.
[02:16:24] <SWPadnos> the slot or the IRQs / resources allocated to that slot by the BIOS
[02:16:34] <owhite> I just cant believe the lack of faith in our consumer electronics industry.
[02:16:44] <jmkasunich> if its local, I'd just march back in there and say "this piece of crap doesn't work, I want my money back"
[02:16:57] <tomp_> and a pound of flesh
[02:17:00] <SWPadnos> also check the BIOS settings for "Plug-n-Play OS", and set to "no" if you have the option
[02:17:08] <owhite> oh. do you imagine there is something I could change in bios?
[02:17:18] <owhite> what is plug-n-play?
[02:17:22] <SWPadnos> yes, set the Plug-n-Play option to No :)
[02:17:44] <owhite> okay before I log off, other things to check in bios?
[02:17:48] <SWPadnos> it may not be there at all, but it has to do with whether the BIOS sets up peripherals or leaves it to the OS
[02:18:23] <SWPadnos> nothing offhand, but let us know what BIOS/chipset the motherboard is
[02:18:37] <owhite> and pastebin it!? :-)
[02:18:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:19:03] <owhite> okay. *mental notetaking* plug and play, and the BIOS/chipset of motherboard.
[02:19:18] <jmkasunich> paper and pencil notetaking works better
[02:19:18] <tomp_> and try another slot while your there
[02:19:31] <jmkasunich> I know this from experience - I can't remember shit
[02:20:01] <SWPadnos> actually, change one thing at a time - fix the BIOS if you can, and if you made changes, boot into Linux and save the output of lspci -vv
[02:23:58] <tomp_> does the basic m5i20 setup still include enc-00-cnt-latch enc-00-count enc-00-idx-latch enc-00index enc-00-latch-index enc-00-pos-latch enc-00-position enc-00-resetcount ?
[02:24:18] <tomp_> i making a pyvcp test panel
[02:24:32] <SWPadnos> that's an excellent question :)
[02:25:51] <tomp_> well enc-NN...
[02:28:01] <tomp_> to make the pyvcp panel, i need to know the data types and the data direction
[02:28:12] <jmkasunich> I take it you don't have a 5i20 card?
[02:28:26] <tomp_> you can take it i do
[02:28:47] <jmkasunich> start the m5i20 config, open a shell, and do halcmd show pin
[02:28:49] <SWPadnos> halcmd loadrt hal_m5i20
[02:30:32] <tomp_> yes, thanks, halcmd more powerful than halmeter (uh i been told before ) now i know direction and type, thanks
[02:32:53] <tomp_> what widget is useful for bit i/o ?
[02:33:10] <jmkasunich> you mean pyvcp widgets?
[02:33:10] <SWPadnos> checkbox/button and LED
[02:33:13] <jmkasunich> leds for inputs
[02:33:18] <jmkasunich> what he said
[02:33:30] <SWPadnos> checkbox for things you want to keep at some value, button for "temporary" things
[02:33:44] <jmkasunich> heh, that reminds me of something
[02:33:55] <jmkasunich> before vcp came along, during the first round of the mazak
[02:34:21] <tomp_> yes, but halcmd show says the pin is bit and is i or o enc-00-latch-index
[02:34:44] <jmkasunich> ray was testing some IO using "newsig foo; linksp foo pin-to-test; sets foo 1; sets foo 0"
[02:35:08] <tomp_> always 0?
[02:35:18] <jmkasunich> of course each command was typed individually
[02:35:44] <jmkasunich> when he tested the coolant pump bit, it started squirting stinky old coolant at the ceiling because the pipes were disconnected
[02:35:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:36:05] <jmkasunich> and of course its hard to type "setp foo 0" fast when there is stinky coolant shooting at the ceiling
[02:36:34] <jmkasunich> today a pyvcp button would be a good choice
[02:36:47] <SWPadnos> yes indeedy
[02:37:03] <jmkasunich> tomp_: sorry, got distracted with my story
[02:37:14] <jmkasunich> you are talking about a pin that is listed as "IO"
[02:37:22] <jmkasunich> neither in nor out, but both
[02:37:26] <jmkasunich> right?
[02:37:32] <tomp_> yes
[02:37:38] <jmkasunich> ok, I misunderstood
[02:37:52] <jmkasunich> to be honest, I'd just stick an LED on it
[02:38:07] <tomp_> ok, thats easy
[02:38:14] <jmkasunich> if you really want to test the index functionality, you can setp it to 1, the led will light up
[02:38:18] <SWPadnos> hmmm - can you connect an IO to an O?
[02:38:25] <SWPadnos> or just other Is
[02:38:29] <jmkasunich> then turn the shaft, when you hit the index the light will go out and the counter should reset to zero
[02:38:29] <jepler> SWPadnos: not anymore
[02:38:31] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:38:48] <jepler> an IO-mode "set only" pin would be useful in VCP
[02:38:55] <jepler> sets to 1 when you push
[02:39:08] <SWPadnos> but doesn't update
[02:39:16] <tomp_> but somethng else can turn it off
[02:39:17] <jmkasunich> in theory, "O" means "I'm gonna write to the pin every time I run", so that would cause contention with somebody else who (might) write it
[02:39:28] <jepler> .. pops back out when the pin goes back to 0?
[02:39:43] <SWPadnos> tomp_, yep - that would be ideal
[02:39:48] <tomp_> "stickybuttons"
[02:39:57] <SWPadnos> write 1 when pressed, detect reset to 0 before popping button out
[02:39:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:40:15] <tomp_> that sounds like fun
[02:40:27] <tomp_> jepler: did you see vpython?
[02:40:29] <jmkasunich> how about "displayed state of button matches the signal, when clicked it writes (only once) the opposite state
[02:40:33] <jepler> tomp_: i've heard about it, never used it
[02:40:43] <jepler> jmkasunich: race condition between the eye and the hand
[02:41:17] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:41:40] <jmkasunich> oh, because it might change just as you are clicking it?
[02:42:05] <jepler> right
[02:42:39] <jmkasunich> well, if you are gonna have one that writes a 1 when clicked, then you ought to have another that will write a zero when clicked
[02:42:40] <tomp_> for test purposes ( no motors allowed), just checking functionality, the btn could begin a timer for 1 sec & the led reflect the state ??
[02:42:48] <jmkasunich> I was trying to kill two birds with one stone
[02:42:53] <jmkasunich> but maybe two stones is better
[02:43:07] <jmkasunich> tomp_ no clue what you are talking about
[02:43:41] <jmkasunich> if you are testing the index function of an encoder (the only reason you would access that pin) then you want the widget that we are talking about
[02:43:49] <SWPadnos> you could make a compound widget, with a "set" button, a "reset" button, and an LED
[02:44:40] <jmkasunich> well, the "write 1" button is the set, the "write 0" button is the reset, and we already have the LED
[02:44:45] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't build a widget
[02:44:54] <jmkasunich> just make a box and stick the widgets in it
[02:45:05] <jmkasunich> (of course, that means more hal and xml code)
[02:46:01] <tomp_> ok, write1 write0 and led in a frame with a label
[02:46:31] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:46:34] <SWPadnos> actually, you can leave it as a button that stays down until the signal goes back to 0
[02:46:34] <tomp_> 2 radiobuttons, 1 led 1 label 1 box
[02:46:49] <jmkasunich> not radiobuttons
[02:46:50] <SWPadnos> not radiobuttons - those are "permanent"
[02:46:51] <jepler> they should be called but-ons
[02:47:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:47:04] <SWPadnos> and a butt-off
[02:47:15] <jmkasunich> there is a momentary button in pyvcp, right?
[02:47:17] <jepler> yes, butt-on and butt-off
[02:47:28] <SWPadnos> butt dup on off ;)
[02:47:38] <tomp_> ok, but-on but-off ( thought i could write to the radiobuttons ( control thier state))
[02:48:01] <jmkasunich> there is a momentary button in pyvcp, right?
[02:48:15] <tomp_> yes, button' is momentary
[02:48:40] <SWPadnos> then all you need is one that doesn't write a 0 when the button is released
[02:48:54] <jmkasunich> it writes a zero (repeatedly) when off, and a 1 (repeatedly I hope) when held down?
[02:49:09] <SWPadnos> it may continue to write a 1 while held down
[02:49:26] <jmkasunich> it should (both when down and up)
[02:49:35] <SWPadnos> not foran IO signal ...
[02:50:07] <tomp_> "halpin is 1 when button pressed, 0 otherwise "
[02:50:07] <jmkasunich> anyway, I'd suggest an attribute for "button" that says "export an IO pin instead of an out pin, and only write it when clicked"
[02:50:24] <jmkasunich> is there a toggle button?
[02:50:29] <tomp_> not yet
[02:50:46] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich should RTFM
[02:51:01] <jmkasunich> toggle button is actually a better candidate for this
[02:51:20] <tomp_> checkbutton is close
[02:51:26] <jmkasunich> display the state of the pin, when you click it, read the state, and write the opposite state one time
[02:51:37] <jmkasunich> oh, checkbutton is togglebutton
[02:51:44] <jmkasunich> just different names
[02:51:47] <tomp_> semantics
[02:51:57] <SWPadnos> it's a checkbox, not a checkbutton ;)
[02:52:03] <jmkasunich> whatever
[02:52:13] <tomp_> class pyvcp_checkbutton(Checkbutton):
[02:52:38] <tomp_> owhite ok?
[02:52:43] <jmkasunich> anyway, the "normal" behavior for checkbutton/checkbox/togglebutton/funnywidget should be to export an OUT pin and repeatedly write it
[02:53:04] <jmkasunich> and an XML tag should be able to say "export an IO pin and write it only when clicked"
[02:53:19] <tomp_> is out pycomp.newpin(halpin, HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT)
[02:53:36] <jmkasunich> I would guess so, but I don't know
[02:54:01] <tomp_> that was a quote from pyvcp_widgets.py
[02:54:39] <SWPadnos> probably. change the HAL_OUT to HAL_IO for an IO pin
[02:56:32] <tomp_> oh thats how it'd be done ( to get the IO pintype) but the rule 'only when checked' thats not to be done inside pyvcp_widgtes, maybe in vcpparse.py , it may need an xml token added
[02:58:00] <SWPadnos> both, actually
[02:58:29] <SWPadnos> the button widget will need an internal variable, and the update function will need to check that variable to see if it's OK to write to the pin
[02:58:55] <SWPadnos> the variable will be set with an additional XML token
[02:59:10] <SWPadnos> I'm not looking at the code - is there a way of doing "internal options"
[02:59:45] <SWPadnos> like <option>io<value>true</value></option> or something
[03:00:24] <tomp_> yes,there's a list of tokens for allowed options, and in the widget __init__ you collect any name/value pairs that make it past the parser
[03:00:38] <SWPadnos> ok, that should make it easy then
[03:00:52] <SWPadnos> (he says, without knowing anything ;) )
[03:01:20] <tomp_> tomp is collecting which of many ideas was the final suggestion...
[03:02:09] <SWPadnos> I think it was an option to the standard button, which when set causes the exported pin to be IO, and the update function to only update (toggle) when the user clicks the button
[03:07:20] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, it's arrived.
[03:07:27] <SWPadnos> excellent!
[03:07:43] <A-L-P-H-A> well, it's actually at the post office, where I have to pick it up, and pay something like $26 for duties and shit.
[03:07:50] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:07:58] <A-L-P-H-A> they came by, but didn't ring my doorbell.
[03:08:04] <A-L-P-H-A> didn't hear the other one.
[03:08:52] <SWPadnos> well, at least you know it's around, and available for a finite amount of cash
[03:09:28] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder if customs would have been a bitch to have marked it for $20.
[03:09:42] <SWPadnos> probably
[03:09:57] <tomp_> so far http://imagebin.org/6994
[03:09:59] <A-L-P-H-A> for a while, I thought customs was opening my mail...
[03:09:59] <SWPadnos> I had to fill out a postal declaration that tells what's inside
[03:10:12] <A-L-P-H-A> as anything from a tech company was being opened, mysteriously, if it was addressed to me.
[03:10:29] <tomp_> SWPadnos, always use it first, then mark it used parts, cheaper
[03:10:38] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it should be sealed when you get it
[03:11:00] <A-L-P-H-A> tomp_, oh hey! good idea
[03:11:03] <SWPadnos> tomp_, heh - I could have done that. though I included a copy of the receipt for warranty use
[03:11:17] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, mail that separately next time!
[03:11:18] <tomp_> customs can open everythng, i have to put a hole in crates, cover with tin, for them
[03:11:37] <A-L-P-H-A> tomp_, where you from?
[03:11:44] <tomp_> Chicago
[03:12:00] <SWPadnos> tomp_, otehr than the input numbers being the same (I00-I07 three times), that looks cool
[03:12:10] <SWPadnos> s/oethr/other/
[03:12:16] <SWPadnos> or whatever I put there
[03:12:29] <jmkasunich> what are those things for the outputs?
[03:12:34] <jmkasunich> are those the checkbuttons?
[03:12:36] <SWPadnos> looks like a copy/paste error to me :)
[03:12:48] <tomp_> yep
[03:12:55] <jmkasunich> funky looking things
[03:13:04] <jmkasunich> not screamingly obvious whether they are on or off
[03:13:05] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the word on step/dir functionality?
[03:13:14] <SWPadnos> the word for today is "wait"
[03:13:21] <jmkasunich> same as the last time somebody asked
[03:13:22] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich. :) the man of the hour
[03:13:25] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[03:13:38] <jmkasunich> I think it was a day or so ago, on one of the lsits
[03:13:36] <skunkworks> make sure it has the good packing nuts in it.. I heard of others getting sub-par packing material
[03:13:38] <jmkasunich> lists
[03:13:54] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, I'm on the list, but don't read it... too many posts
[03:13:55] <jmkasunich> and the answer was "in a couple months"
[03:14:20] <SWPadnos> the phrase for today is "if you want it faster, do it yourself!" :)
[03:14:41] <skunkworks> * skunkworks waits longingly for the next dev or user list posts.
[03:14:59] <SWPadnos> Jon Elson just posted one ...
[03:15:03] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, I don't see that when I searched for mesa, or 5i20... :(
[03:15:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't see the post that is.
[03:15:23] <A-L-P-H-A> this is the emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net list right?
[03:15:24] <SWPadnos> look for step, in the body ;)
[03:18:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I see something, but nothing in regards to mesa step/dir project completion date. :) Just jmkasunich saying he's using the mesa, cause it's better suited to his needs.
[03:18:41] <jmkasunich> Re: [Emc-developers] Generating step and PWM control
[03:18:53] <jmkasunich> Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:11:00
[03:18:56] <jmkasunich> from me
[03:19:07] <A-L-P-H-A> ooooooooh... I'm no the devel list.
[03:19:41] <jmkasunich> oh, then you are excused for asking ;-)
[03:23:13] <fenn> wow look at this edm'ed racecar part http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/040508.html
[03:31:50] <SWPadnos> bah - I can do that with my 6" long 1/64 end mill :)
[03:32:56] <jmkasunich> woot - an LED dimmer!
[03:33:02] <jmkasunich> 5i20 fun
[03:33:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:33:14] <SWPadnos> stock config?
[03:33:17] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:34:29] <tomp_> what, it wont turn it off all the way? or (more likely) pwm to an led?
[03:34:56] <jmkasunich> I'm messing with the DAC outputs (which are actually PWM)
[03:35:05] <jmkasunich> and I have the 7i31 LED board connected
[03:36:52] <tomp_> i found the stuff on vpython when i found stuff on how to capture desktop to swf/flv/ogg, and in that i found some python tutors, http://showmedo.com/videos/python
[03:38:17] <tomp_> we need more visual communication
[03:38:30] <SWPadnos> o_O
[03:38:59] <tomp_> in then end i found i could just use ffmpeg to do screen capture ( not istanbul or vnc ... )
[03:39:31] <jmkasunich> videos to learn programming?
[03:39:35] <jmkasunich> thats just... wrong
[03:40:49] <tomp_> thats from a good programmer, who doesnt click much, but for the 'rest of us' (woooooo i heard that before) :)
[03:43:44] <jmkasunich> I can see the value in pictures, especially when learning GUI software where you have to show people what to click, or when talking about toolkits and you need to show them what the widgets look like
[03:43:47] <jmkasunich> but video...
[03:44:07] <jmkasunich> video (or audio) forces you to proceed at the pace of the media
[03:44:23] <tomp_> you're right, it was handy to see how some ide's worked...
[03:44:29] <jmkasunich> its inconvenient to slow down over the parts you need to think about and speed up over the simple parts
[03:44:41] <jmkasunich> its hard to index so you can go back and review a specific topic
[03:44:52] <jmkasunich> it just plain sucks as a teaching medium, IMHO
[03:45:06] <tomp_> this is what video is for http://www.i-bar.ch/en/video/
[03:46:43] <tomp_> the technology is tfir? an acrylic sheet, some leds, an ir camera and a lcd projector
[03:48:42] <tomp_> Frustrated Total Internal Reflection
[03:48:48] <jmkasunich> I didn't realize the 5i20 dacs wire pwm+dir, I thought they were up/down (two PWM pins)
[03:48:50] <tomp_> :) really
[03:48:50] <fenn> ftir means that when you touch the acrylic it changes the index of refraction and so your finger "glows" and the camera can see that from the other side
[03:49:00] <fenn> its lit from the side by led's
[03:49:43] <jmkasunich> I wonder how long it takes before the top gets scratched
[03:52:08] <tomp_> the web shows more greasy fingerprint pix than scratches, and scratches are bad for the detection, jef han at TED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcKqyn-gUbY
[03:53:54] <tomp_> jmkasunich what are you describing about the dacs, it's a single pin, and the signal is above/below 0?? so pwm can cause polarity and magnitude?
[03:54:17] <jmkasunich> no, its two pins (logic signals can't go below zero)
[03:54:35] <jmkasunich> one pin has PWM on it, based on the absolute value of the desired analog
[03:54:47] <jmkasunich> the other is either on or off based on the sign
[03:54:56] <jmkasunich> that is pwm/dir (similar to step/dir)
[03:55:16] <jmkasunich> the alternative is up/down, where one or the other pin PWMs, based on the sign of the analog value
[03:55:49] <jmkasunich> up/down is more suited to driving H bridges - send up to one side of the bridge and down to the other
[03:56:31] <tomp_> ok, i eventually need to turn that into standard analog bipolar... this was discussed before & i better find it ,some integration as I recall ( no h bridge, stock analog amps )
[03:56:36] <jmkasunich> you can convert from one to the other with a couple of gates, but its a pain to have to do that in external hardware
[03:56:56] <jmkasunich> if you are using analog amps, the easy choice is the mesa 7i33 card
[03:57:26] <tomp_> oh, thats why i bought one =-O
[03:57:31] <jmkasunich> they do that for you - convert the PWM into analog (including the biploar part), filter it, and gain it up to +/- 10V
[03:58:02] <tomp_> (off to get those docs)
[03:58:34] <tomp_> no, off to finish the dang mesa test panel
[05:20:01] <ds3> hmmm
[05:38:23] <Jymmm> mmmh
[05:58:10] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (siggen.9 sim_encoder.9 supply.9): more new manpages
[05:58:29] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: backport: new manpages
[05:58:29] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (siggen.9 sim_encoder.9 supply.9): backport: new manpages
[05:58:55] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[06:10:07] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IbV7ad2xgY
[06:17:57] <ds3> any opinions on which is the move advance linux 3D system?
[06:18:03] <ds3> 3D cad system that is
[06:18:19] <ds3> s/move advance/most mature/
[06:20:53] <fenn> brlcad
[06:21:15] <fenn> varicad looks slick
[06:33:10] <ds3> let me look at them
[06:37:22] <ds3> okay varicad is out, commercial
[06:41:13] <ds3> hmmm brlcad looks nice but no support for engineering analysis...
[07:10:57] <fenn> brlcad is hard to use and lacking important features like opengl shading
[07:11:09] <fenn> but its very mature :)
[07:15:12] <ds3> I see.
[07:15:52] <ds3> okay, is there a useable 3D cad that will support de facto file formats?
[07:27:13] <K`zan> Nytol :-)
[07:28:32] <ds3> eh?
[07:37:04] <K`zan> Good night :-)
[08:00:53] <fenn> ds3: no :(
[08:15:56] <robin_sz> ds3: yes, yes there is!
[08:16:34] <fenn> i think o'reilly is running out of animals to put on their book covers
[08:16:40] <robin_sz> ds3, its called "Solidworks"
[08:17:08] <robin_sz> fenn, do they really put animals on their books?
[08:17:08] <Jymmm> How to you get dhcp to renew under ubuntu/debian?
[08:17:18] <robin_sz> Jymmm, do an if up/down
[08:17:28] <Jymmm> robin_sz tried, didn't work
[08:17:43] <fenn> sudo pump ?
[08:17:55] <robin_sz> did it search for a DHCP response and didnt get one?
[08:17:54] <Jymmm> you mean 'if etho down' ???
[08:18:06] <robin_sz> ifdown eth0
[08:18:09] <fenn> sudo pump --renew
[08:18:09] <robin_sz> ifup eth0
[08:18:27] <robin_sz> pump? new one on me .. I try
[08:18:34] <ejholmgren> dhcpcd?
[08:18:35] <Jymmm> me too
[08:18:47] <robin_sz> nah, thats the server side
[08:18:48] <fenn> ubuntu/debian dont use dhcpcd i think
[08:19:20] <robin_sz> oops, I thought he meant dhcpd
[08:19:26] <ejholmgren> ;)
[08:20:24] <Jymmm> dhcoclient
[08:20:45] <ejholmgren> I use dhcpcd -R eth0 to bring up the interface on my firewall/router
[08:21:26] <robin_sz> I just use ifup ifdown ... the dhcp happens as part fo network initialisation
[08:22:04] <robin_sz> a of course, I should add I am a Debian guy, its possible the the ubuntu fairies have fucked it up
[08:22:13] <fenn> all good things to know
[08:22:52] <robin_sz> dhclient seems to work also
[08:22:56] <fenn> here is a jumping whatever for your pleasure http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythoncook2/cover.html
[08:23:07] <Jymmm> ok, 'sudo ifdown eth0' 'sudo ifup eth0' worked
[08:23:26] <robin_sz> oh, PICTURES of animals .. that makes more sense
[08:23:28] <Jymmm> weird that ifconfig eth0 down didn't renew
[08:23:37] <robin_sz> no its not
[08:23:54] <ejholmgren> wtf is that ...
[08:24:09] <fenn> some sort of rodent
[08:24:12] <robin_sz> not a fucking python thats for sure ;)
[08:24:16] <ejholmgren> the product of rabbit/squirrel procreation?
[08:24:49] <Jymmm> The animal on the cover of Python Cookbook, Second Edition is a springhaas (Pedetes capensis)
[08:24:55] <Jymmm> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythoncook2/colophon.html
[08:25:25] <ejholmgren> so there's a huge python on the back cover about ready to swallow its ass?
[08:25:36] <robin_sz> Jymmm, ifconfig brings interfaces up and down ... it does just the "interface up" part of it .. not all the "and run this script, do all these other things" that are in /etc/network
[08:25:54] <robin_sz> only ifup ifdown do that
[08:26:13] <robin_sz> ifconfig is lower level
[08:26:29] <Jymmm> hmmmm, ok.
[08:28:01] <robin_sz> The python cookbook. Take one medium python. Skin and wash. Slice into1/2" thick slices, fry lightly in oil with a little garlic, serve in a bread roll with a few onions and a little mustard relish
[08:46:10] <Jymmm> mustard relish?
[08:46:16] <Jymmm> never heard of it
[09:10:31] <A-L-P-H-A> ohla
[09:10:32] <Jymmm> alex_joni you awake?
[09:10:37] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz's up early
[09:17:10] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah
[09:17:17] <A-L-P-H-A> supal.
[09:17:20] <A-L-P-H-A> sup alex_joni
[09:17:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni installed ubuntu, any issues uninstalling gnome and installing kde?
[09:36:16] <alex_joni> Jymmm: only that some stuff will stay behind
[09:36:25] <alex_joni> that means diskspace
[09:36:31] <alex_joni> other than that, not that I know of
[09:36:43] <alex_joni> (disclaimer)> I never tried it myself *grin*
[09:36:52] <Jymmm> lol
[09:37:25] <Jymmm> I have ried installing kubuntu, has issues installing where ubuntu doesn't. weird, but
[09:38:32] <alex_joni> all I know is that sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop should switch you over
[09:38:48] <Jymmm> eeesh, I'm running firefox and a terminal, yet 89 processes are running, almost as bad as M$
[09:39:13] <Jymmm> and kde is less resource intensive than gnome?
[09:40:01] <alex_joni> not really
[09:40:11] <alex_joni> just a different flavour
[09:40:25] <alex_joni> if you want less resource intensive then try xubuntu with XFCE4
[09:40:33] <Jymmm> icky
[09:40:39] <alex_joni> icky?
[09:40:45] <alex_joni> I liked it a lot
[09:41:02] <Jymmm> and you like yugo's too,
[09:41:19] <Jymmm> so, that aint saying much =)
[09:41:34] <Jymmm> ok, it aint too bad
[09:41:49] <alex_joni> I don't like yugo's :P
[09:41:53] <alex_joni> but I'd like a smart
[09:42:02] <alex_joni> (the roadster though)
[09:42:09] <Jymmm> you liar!
[09:42:14] <Jymmm> You should me a pic once
[09:42:16] <Jymmm> showed
[09:42:34] <alex_joni> I might have.. but I don't like it
[09:43:07] <alex_joni> http://www.dieselstation.com/wallpapers/Smart-Roadster/Smart-Roadster-016.jpg
[09:43:15] <Jymmm> well the pic had you in a 2pc bikini on the hood of one!
[09:43:34] <Jymmm> who makes smart?
[09:43:44] <alex_joni> some european consortium incl. Mercedes
[09:43:50] <Jymmm> ah
[09:43:56] <Jymmm> nice lines
[09:44:05] <alex_joni> hahahaha http://www.bureauangenent.nl/smart/images/foto_true_smart_Roadster.jpg
[09:44:32] <alex_joni> the normal smart, and forfour (with 4 places) is butt ugly imo
[09:44:33] <Jymmm> I'd rather my gf get smart instead of a mini
[09:45:06] <alex_joni> it's somehow cheaper :D
[09:45:15] <alex_joni> but the roadster is still 20k$
[09:45:25] <alex_joni> http://www.autointell.de/europaeische-hersteller/smart/smart-forfour-diesel/smart-forfour-cdi-125.jpg <- FUGLY
[09:45:26] <Jymmm> so is a toyota =)
[09:45:45] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah, but a toyota is a bit bigger than 3.5m length
[09:45:57] <Jymmm> lol
[09:46:10] <alex_joni> the standard smart is 2.5m
[09:46:35] <Jymmm> we were watching a movie once, and there was a car smaller than a mini in it and she wanted it *sigh*
[09:46:51] <alex_joni> "The Roadster is powered by 45 or 60 kW (61 or 82 PS) versions of the turbocharged 3-cylinder engine in the rear, which is engineered by Mercedes-Benz."
[09:47:11] <alex_joni> that is a motor you can take out of the car by yourself
[09:47:16] <alex_joni> with your bare hands
[09:47:19] <Jymmm> lol
[09:47:21] <alex_joni> (45kg)
[09:47:31] <Jymmm> oh geeze
[09:47:55] <Jymmm> 100 lbs
[09:48:52] <Jymmm> does that mean I don't have to worry about breaking my 4 ton floor jack?
[09:50:29] <Jymmm> what's a nice smb browser client?
[10:00:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses smbclient
[10:00:41] <alex_joni> some don't like textmode though
[10:07:30] <Jymmm> yeah, want gui for this
[10:08:56] <slundell> Jymmm: in kde you just type smb://hostname to browse
[10:10:02] <Jymmm> what about in gnome?
[10:10:13] <alex_joni> I think that works too
[10:10:25] <alex_joni> the normal explorer understands smb afaik
[10:10:49] <Jymmm> where is the normal explorer in gnome?
[10:10:57] <alex_joni> places menu
[10:12:27] <Jymmm> woohooo!
[10:13:12] <alex_joni> that sounds like it works :)
[10:15:03] <Jymmm> argh... Totem Movie player is whining that it can't read from the source.
[10:24:39] <Jymmm> alex_joni oh xubuntu is what you were talking about by chance?
[10:30:25] <alex_joni> yeah, why?
[10:30:48] <alex_joni> 11:39 < alex_joni> if you want less resource intensive then try xubuntu with
[10:30:48] <alex_joni> XFCE4
[10:30:48] <alex_joni> 11:39 < Jymmm> icky
[10:32:06] <Jymmm> read after that =)
[10:33:33] <Jymmm> I can't get movie player to see the smb share
[10:38:23] <alex_joni> Jymmm: smbmount
[10:38:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni syntax?
[10:39:07] <alex_joni> same as mount
[10:39:22] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, the roadster isn't too bad... http://www.dieselstation.com/wallpapers/Smart-Roadster/Smart-Roadster-016.jpg I wouldn't buy it... but if a chick drove it, I think it's be okay.
[10:39:38] <A-L-P-H-A> if you drove, I'd probably laugh. :)
[10:41:41] <anonimasu> hm
[10:41:44] <anonimasu> hi
[10:42:23] <anonimasu> I saw a smart roadster with 420hp
[10:42:26] <anonimasu> for sale..
[10:42:36] <anonimasu> a motorcycle engine with turbo
[10:43:30] <anonimasu> no, that was a smart motorcycle car..
[10:43:31] <anonimasu> :D
[12:28:39] <anonimasu> hey Martin_Lundstrom
[12:48:59] <col> hello
[12:56:41] <anonimasu> hey
[12:57:41] <col> having issues trying to install emc
[12:57:53] <col> says theres a package missing on apt
[12:59:42] <alex_joni> do you have universe enabled in the repositories?
[13:01:51] <col> Hit http://security.ubuntu.com dapper-security/restricted Sources
[13:01:51] <col> Fetched 4B in 6s (1B/s)
[13:01:51] <col> Failed to fetch http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/dapper/Release Unable to find expected entry emc2/binary-amd64/Packages in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
[13:01:55] <col> Reading package lists... Done
[13:01:58] <col> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[13:02:01] <col> Reading package lists... Done
[13:02:02] <col> Building dependency tree... Done
[13:02:04] <col> E: Couldn't find package emc2-axis
[13:07:43] <anonimasu> hm, shit, I really need a faster Z
[13:07:44] <anonimasu> :D
[13:08:28] <anonimasu> ah well, 11 minutes per part isnt bad at all
[13:08:44] <anonimasu> but it's be 5 with a faster z
[13:08:51] <anonimasu> and I could do paralell contouring
[13:09:00] <anonimasu> or plunge for the edges
[13:17:14] <col> sorry got cut off
[13:19:52] <cradek> col: there are no 64 bit emc packages
[13:21:02] <col> why is the script trying to install em then
[13:21:22] <alex_joni> the scripts installs based on your subsystem I think
[13:21:25] <cradek> did you install the 64 bit ubuntu?
[13:21:32] <col> i installed the livecd
[13:21:37] <col> from the emc site
[13:21:46] <Martin_Lundstrom> will there ever be a 64 bit version of EMC?
[13:21:51] <alex_joni> the LiveCD already has EMC on it
[13:22:04] <alex_joni> so somehow you must have ended up with something else
[13:22:12] <col> it didnt install with it i dont think
[13:22:15] <alex_joni> Martin_Lundstrom: there is sim, not sure about RT
[13:22:16] <col> odd
[13:22:23] <Martin_Lundstrom> ok
[13:22:30] <col> maybe i isntalled from a different disk
[13:22:32] <alex_joni> col: can you run "uname -a" please?
[13:23:19] <col> Linux colin-desktop 2.6.15-27-amd64-generic #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 8 17:50:54 UTC 2006 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[13:23:40] <cradek> that wasn't the emc livecd :-)
[13:23:51] <alex_joni> definately not :D
[13:24:07] <col> that would explain why its not there lol
[13:24:16] <alex_joni> amd64 & SMP ..
[13:24:42] <alex_joni> it'll be a while till emc2 runs on that (if ever..)
[13:25:26] <cradek> maybe the 2.2 series of releases - but we're just starting 2.1
[13:25:38] <col> so emc wont install on the 64 bit
[13:26:05] <cradek> the problem is the realtime system, not so much emc, but in short - no
[13:27:18] <col> ahh bokie
[13:27:23] <col> okie
[13:27:30] <col> ill have to reinstall
[13:27:41] <cradek> brb
[13:28:06] <anonimasu> 62hm
[13:28:10] <anonimasu> I hate 3d contouring
[13:28:24] <col> getting my machines next week
[13:28:26] <anonimasu> it takes so damn long time
[13:28:42] <col> should be fun trying to work out everything
[13:29:02] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:29:37] <col> think im gonna go wih the montenc controller boards
[13:30:02] <anonimasu> why not the mesa cards or something?
[13:30:30] <anonimasu> I _think_ they are better priced
[13:30:30] <col> are they better?
[13:30:57] <anonimasu> you should as SWPadnos or someone about it
[13:31:12] <anonimasu> http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html
[13:31:40] <anonimasu> you should ask SWPadnos or someone about them
[13:32:41] <anonimasu> http://www.mesanet.com/
[13:32:42] <anonimasu> :)
[13:32:51] <col> im just hoping that the servo control boards in the mill already are usable with teh controller
[13:34:57] <skunkworks> col: what are you getting?
[13:36:37] <alex_joni> motenc have real DAC's on them, the mesa boards use PWM + filtering for that
[13:36:43] <alex_joni> both are supported by emc2
[13:37:11] <jepler> yeah the built-in real DAC and ADC seem to be the motenc's main advantages
[13:37:16] <jepler> * jepler was just reading that page
[13:37:57] <jepler> the non-lite card has a lot more total I/O too
[13:38:10] <alex_joni> yeah, but it's way more expensive
[13:38:19] <alex_joni> it's also 8-axes afaik
[13:38:21] <jepler> more expensive than two -lites?
[13:38:30] <alex_joni> don't think so..
[13:38:37] <alex_joni> but still more expensive than 2 5i20's
[13:39:51] <jepler> bbl
[13:41:19] <col> getting a hurco milling machine and churchill lathe
[13:43:10] <col> bed on the mill has about 1m travel
[13:43:40] <col> lathe has 12" chuck hydrostatic bearings 10 tool changer and a C axis
[13:43:58] <col> the lathes using siemens controls at the moment
[13:44:37] <anonimasu> hm, what's wrong with the stock control?
[13:44:48] <anonimasu> other then that it's siemens
[13:45:17] <col> on the lathe nothing
[13:45:30] <col> on the mill the memory board has gone
[13:45:48] <anonimasu> ok
[13:45:55] <anonimasu> I wouldnt replace a working controller
[13:46:00] <anonimasu> if it's not old as hell
[13:46:09] <col> its pretty ancient
[13:46:32] <col> but if it works for now ill be happy
[13:46:36] <col> the mill is the main one
[13:50:19] <anonimasu> :)
[13:50:57] <col> are the servo controllers usualy reusable from old mills ?
[13:51:07] <col> or am i probably looking at new controllers
[13:52:05] <anonimasu> yes they are
[13:52:48] <anonimasu> if you are lucky ofcourse
[13:53:23] <col> ill have to take a load of pics of em when i get it
[13:53:58] <col> if not is somthing like the gecko servo drive what id need?
[14:01:06] <anonimasu> yeah, but that depends on your motors
[14:01:16] <anonimasu> encoders/tachos/
[14:01:26] <anonimasu> or resolvers
[14:05:27] <col> i had a look at the motors
[14:05:38] <col> didnt really have a lot of info on em
[14:05:51] <col> how do you tell?
[14:08:03] <anonimasu> look on the back of the motors and see if there's a marking at the thing at the end
[14:08:25] <anonimasu> [*][MOTOR]-
[14:08:26] <anonimasu> on that thing :)
[14:09:01] <alex_joni> fjungclaus__: hi Frank
[14:09:56] <alex_joni> col: sometimes it helps to count wires :)
[14:10:19] <alex_joni> tach is 2 wires usually, works together with velocity controlled servo (usually on DC motors)
[14:10:39] <alex_joni> for position loop you usually get an encoder (can be 6, 8 wires)
[14:10:55] <alex_joni> AC motors usually have an resolver on them (6 wires, pretty neatly shielded)
[14:11:24] <col> i belive its a dc motor with encoder then
[14:11:44] <alex_joni> you can either keep the old amps (if they work)
[14:11:58] <alex_joni> the most probable interface from the control is +/- 10V
[14:12:07] <alex_joni> so you can hook them up directly to the motenc
[14:12:15] <col> thats what i was hoping for
[14:12:29] <alex_joni> or if they are busted you can a). get new ones b). get something like the G340 form gecko
[14:12:38] <alex_joni> b). means you don't need the motenc
[14:13:00] <alex_joni> you use step/dir (like a stepper) from the control to the drive
[14:13:01] <col> whys that?
[14:13:07] <alex_joni> and keep the PID inside teh drive
[14:13:19] <alex_joni> but that has several limitation (and it's also cheaper :)
[14:13:36] <alex_joni> limitations: 1. possibly smaller max vel (because of software generation of steps)
[14:13:44] <alex_joni> 2. you don't have the position fed back to emc2
[14:13:57] <col> id rather get teh montenc then
[14:14:02] <alex_joni> 3. you need to tune the PID inside the drive
[14:14:03] <alex_joni> etc
[14:14:12] <alex_joni> col: if you can afford it, then go for it :)
[14:14:31] <col> well to me then montenc isnt that expensive with exchange rates ect
[14:14:45] <alex_joni> col: where from?
[14:14:52] <col> UK
[14:14:59] <alex_joni> oh cool.. :)
[14:15:09] <alex_joni> there are some other people from there on this channel once in a while
[14:15:16] <col> sweet
[14:15:41] <alex_joni> robin_sz is from Worcestershire
[14:15:41] <col> im also considering getting the 8 axis controller
[14:16:01] <col> coz ill want 5 axis at some point i reckon
[14:16:15] <alex_joni> you can always get a second lite :)
[14:16:35] <alex_joni> the driver supports multiple cards
[14:16:43] <col> true
[14:17:08] <alex_joni> but it's 2 x 550$ vs. 1 x 765$
[14:17:49] <alex_joni> hmm.. I see the Motenc Lite has 8 channels of DAC/ADC
[14:17:57] <alex_joni> only the encoder counters are limited to 4 channels
[14:18:11] <alex_joni> maybe it's cheaper to get a Motenc + a 5i20 from Mesa
[14:18:30] <alex_joni> use the Motenc for 8 channel DAC/ADC, and 4 channel encoder read + 4 channel encoder read on the Mesa
[14:19:28] <alex_joni> that means 550$ + 200$ pretty close to the 8 channel :)
[14:19:53] <alex_joni> but you'll have shitloads of IO on the 5i20 :D
[14:20:06] <col> for the price difference i might aswell just get the 8 chan
[14:20:13] <col> $765 and its all there
[14:21:36] <col> i might just rip out all the old amps from the mill anyway i can probably sell them for more than the costs of some new geckos
[14:22:06] <alex_joni> yeah, but as I said.. geckos are inferior to DC amps
[14:22:17] <alex_joni> although they can be crippled to run as DC amps
[14:22:41] <alex_joni> not the product is inferior.. the solution
[14:22:49] <alex_joni> the geckos are great drives
[14:23:45] <col> ah
[14:23:55] <col> what would be a good DC amp then?
[14:23:59] <anonimasu> copley's..
[14:23:59] <anonimasu> :D
[14:24:13] <anonimasu> or the galil ones..
[14:24:22] <col> i thought the geckos were brush DC amps
[14:24:28] <anonimasu> yes
[14:25:19] <alex_joni> col: yes, but driven as steppers
[14:25:31] <alex_joni> so you need Dc motor + encoder => gecko
[14:25:36] <col> ahh i get you
[14:25:41] <alex_joni> the gecko closes the loop itself
[14:25:58] <col> ill try keep the existing amps then
[14:25:59] <alex_joni> http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/downloads/pdf/4122z.pdf
[14:26:07] <alex_joni> col: if they work.. it's best
[14:27:47] <col> :)
[14:28:26] <col> do the amps just connect to the montenc with 10v out ?
[14:31:04] <alex_joni> yes
[14:31:12] <col> sweet
[14:31:15] <alex_joni> and you need the encoders connected to the motenc too
[14:31:20] <col> yup
[14:31:29] <col> i should be ok then
[14:31:32] <alex_joni> and a bit of tuning :)
[14:31:52] <col> aparnetly the machine was running fine its just teh memory board on the old controll that gave up
[14:34:22] <anonimasu> alex_joni: you make it sound so simple
[14:34:21] <anonimasu> :D
[14:34:41] <anonimasu> especially the tuning part
[14:46:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't want to go there :D
[14:49:25] <col> ill be happy if i dont have to refit the lathe
[14:49:54] <col> the hydraulics pipe are just as much of a spagetti junction as the wiring is
[14:52:25] <col> right must dash
[14:52:27] <col> work to do
[14:52:40] <col> thanks for the help :)
[14:56:50] <alex_joni> hi ray
[14:58:57] <cradek> rayh: I added some commented out configuration and instructions in configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal. Would you check it and let me know if there are other common questions you hear that we could answer with an example in there?
[14:59:11] <cradek> j
[15:00:21] <alex_joni> cradek: without looking at the file: home/limit switches, amp enable/disable, (power save for amps - less common), spindle on, estop..
[15:00:29] <anonimasu> brb
[15:01:06] <cradek> I did not touch estop or power save (actually I don't think we have a good approach for power save)
[15:01:18] <cradek> the rest I put in there to some extent
[15:01:23] <alex_joni> I had a user ask once for that..
[15:01:35] <alex_joni> I made him a hal file which used ddt and a window comparator
[15:02:17] <cradek> that means the amps are still in power save at the beginning of every move, since the enable signal will be delayed a bit
[15:02:55] <cradek> it would need to be in stepgen to do right
[15:03:09] <cradek> the steps need to be delayed (just like they are currently when there's a direction change)
[15:04:04] <rayh> Hi cradek. Let me look in just a bit. Phone.
[15:04:09] <cradek> thanks
[15:04:37] <alex_joni> cradek: yes, I agree with you that's the proper fix
[15:04:51] <alex_joni> but this particular user reported it's ok like this
[15:05:05] <alex_joni> had another one ask for the exact opposite :)
[15:05:52] <alex_joni> output a pulse once every 2 seconds so the drive doesn't go into powersaving
[15:06:02] <cradek> ha
[15:06:18] <cradek> what an evil hack
[15:06:47] <alex_joni> :-P
[15:06:51] <alex_joni> evil?
[15:06:52] <cradek> it was easy to get constant pulses out with emc1 :-)
[15:07:16] <rayh> siggen?
[15:07:29] <cradek> I had that often when my pseudopid and deadband were wrong
[15:07:41] <alex_joni> rayh: right, siggen + sum2 + ...
[15:08:00] <cradek> siggen one step worth of distance?
[15:09:01] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/sandbox/core_stepper.hal
[15:09:06] <alex_joni> cradek: right
[15:09:34] <cradek> I appreciate your cleverness, but that really should have been solved at the hardware level!
[15:10:06] <alex_joni> cradek: I agree.. but this was a custom driver which probably didn't have an option to switch the powersaving off
[15:10:17] <cradek> I understand
[15:10:28] <alex_joni> probably = microcontroller based, with little info :)
[15:11:13] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal?rev=1.4
[15:11:19] <alex_joni> anyways.. definately not something for standard_pinout
[15:11:21] <cradek> ^^ these are the changes
[15:12:40] <cradek> brb
[15:12:48] <alex_joni> cradek: although I like the last part (net command) I think it might scare newbies
[15:17:44] <jepler> I think 'net' is easier than newsig+linksp/linkps
[15:17:50] <jepler> and better than linkpp
[15:18:56] <jepler> for 2.2 we should change the standard configurations to use 'net' everywhere
[15:21:45] <rayh> standard_pinout.hal changes Look good to me.
[15:22:17] <rayh> I tend to feel that this level of documentation ought rather to be in the integrator manual.
[15:23:34] <alex_joni> rayh: it's not a replacement
[15:23:55] <alex_joni> rayh: it's rather a quick info to get users going, instead of sending them in here to ask about it :)
[15:24:23] <alex_joni> the Integrator Manual is rather incomplete too.. :(
[15:24:45] <rayh> Sure. There are lots of things that ought to be more readily available.
[15:25:37] <alex_joni> anyways.. running home.. bbl
[15:30:11] <cradek> rayh: I wanted to put only the very basic example stuff in there - now that I go look at it again, I may have overdone it
[15:31:13] <cradek> it's just another attempt to avoid the first common stumbling blocks that people hit
[15:33:48] <rayh> Sure I can understand that.\
[15:34:04] <rayh> oops (\) typoing
[15:35:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I like the information there, but it definitely looks "complicated"
[15:35:56] <rayh> I'm thinking that the approaches you use here could as easily be applied in many other configurations.
[15:36:11] <rayh> but the stepper stuff is the most common entry point.
[15:37:06] <cradek> yeah it's not supposed to be documentation, just a way to reduce questions -- many people seem to make it to that file, but don't quite understand what to put there
[15:37:25] <cradek> SWPadnos: any ideas for how to simplify it?
[15:37:56] <SWPadnos> only one, and it doesn't simplify, it just makes things easier to find in the editor
[15:38:53] <SWPadnos> the idea is to stick "big text" section names in the file: http://pastebin.ca/326904
[15:39:19] <SWPadnos> "HOMING" "ENABLES" "LIMITS" ...
[15:39:27] <cradek> you're joking?
[15:39:49] <SWPadnos> not really. it gives a visual cue to someone who doesn't know what they're looking at
[15:39:54] <SWPadnos> it's stupid, but it works
[15:40:54] <cradek> I agree it's stupid, but don't necessarily agree that it works
[15:41:06] <cradek> proportional fonts are common in editors now
[15:41:23] <rayh> You guys know where yelp gets it's toplevel directory list?
[15:41:28] <SWPadnos> that's true - in which case it ouwl look like the "html representation" there :)
[15:41:36] <SWPadnos> s/owul/would/
[15:41:41] <cradek> right, like someone puked some letters on the screen
[15:41:48] <SWPadnos> yeah
[15:42:35] <cradek> rayh: do you mean the contents of the Help Topics screen?
[15:42:42] <rayh> Right
[15:43:20] <cradek> looking...
[15:44:42] <cradek> /usr/share/yelp/toc.xml
[15:45:44] <cradek> well that's what's under the line I guess, hmm
[15:45:48] <rayh> I looked at that but didn't see anything but i18
[15:46:12] <cradek> <title>Desktop</title>
[15:46:22] <cradek> <description>Guides to using the desktop</description>
[15:46:46] <cradek> oh but what does it link to, hmm
[15:46:55] <cradek> I guess the answer to your question is "no" :-)
[15:47:28] <rayh> thanks for trying.
[15:48:18] <cradek> in the source's README there's something about "scrollkeeper" and "docbook"
[15:49:02] <cradek> <long shot> maybe someone #ubuntu could tell you how to add stuff to it </long shot>
[15:49:13] <jepler> it'll turn out our documentation is in the wrong format
[15:49:13] <fjungclaus__> fjungclaus__ is now known as fjungclaus
[15:49:21] <jepler> not to be negative or anything..
[15:49:45] <cradek> jepler: I think it can show man pages prettied-up
[15:50:22] <cradek> yeah, it does a nice job at that
[15:52:01] <jepler> someone should get rid of this remark in stepper_mm.ini: # axis is an external interface, check http://axis.unpy.net/
[15:52:11] <jepler> I'd do it but I have local modifications in that file right now
[15:52:34] <cradek> I thought alex cleaned those up
[15:53:03] <jepler> maybe I don't have the latest version, or he did it only on the branch?
[15:53:03] <jepler> I'm working in HEAD
[15:54:30] <jepler> now that I've been reminded of the INCREMENTS feature I got around to adding something else I wanted
[15:54:33] <jepler> INCREMENTS = 1 cm, 1/8 in, .1 in, 1/16 in, 1 mm, 1/32 in, .01 in, 1 mil, 10 um, .1 mil
[15:56:28] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini: remove outdated info
[15:57:50] <cradek> jepler: do they show up just like that in the listbox?
[15:58:13] <cradek> sorted?
[15:58:42] <jepler> cradek: they appear in the order listed
[16:02:27] <jepler> a user could choose to sort them by length (as I have) or split them into metric and imperial, or list them with the smallest increment first
[16:04:49] <cradek> I agree that's probably smarter than automatic sorting, which is what I was thinking originally
[16:23:22] <SWPadnos> you know - what may be more generally useful would be a halcmd syntax hilighting file
[16:24:28] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure there's a way to get all of the standard text viewing/editing tools to use it (less, nano, gedit, kate)
[16:47:39] <fjungclaus> fjungclaus is now known as fjungclaus-away
[16:48:43] <alex_joni> oops.. forgot about TRUNK
[16:48:50] <alex_joni> wanted to do that last night
[16:49:41] <fjungclaus-away> alex_joni: Hi, Alex (with a 2.5 hours delay :-) I just left my irc-client running for monitoring the traffic here. And let me say, I'm astonished about the amount of traffic on #emc!
[16:49:49] <fjungclaus-away> fjungclaus-away is now known as fjungclaus
[16:51:04] <alex_joni> fjungclaus: you should have been around this weekend :D
[16:51:12] <cradek> how much of it was on topic?
[16:51:16] <jepler> SWPadnos: ha ha that is a funny joke
[16:52:04] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: remove references to AXIS beeing an external app
[16:52:04] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: remove references to AXIS beeing an external app
[16:52:04] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/minitetra.ini: remove references to AXIS beeing an external app
[16:52:52] <SWPadnos> jepler, which one? (I never know what people think is a joke ;) )
[16:54:45] <jepler> SWPadnos: syntax highlighting that is used by less, nano, gedit, and kate
[16:55:06] <jepler> SWPadnos: calling those programs "all the standard text viewing/editing tools" is also rpetty funny
[16:55:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:55:49] <SWPadnos> well, right-click in a file browser, and you get gedit, sudoedit gets you nano ...
[16:55:55] <cradek> we're lucky they can all properly view and edit the encoding we chose for hal files (7 bit ascii)
[16:55:56] <SWPadnos> less is just - well, less
[16:56:02] <alex_joni> jepler: you didn't like the MAIN LOOP joke?
[16:56:04] <SWPadnos> I
[16:56:17] <alex_joni> IIIIIII
[16:56:18] <SWPadnos> I'm quite sure I've seen color syntax hilighting in less and nano
[16:56:21] <alex_joni> II
[16:56:21] <alex_joni> II
[16:56:24] <SWPadnos> IV
[16:56:25] <alex_joni> II
[16:56:26] <alex_joni> II
[16:56:30] <alex_joni> IIIIIII
[16:56:38] <SWPadnos> MMVII
[16:56:39] <cradek> /kickban alex_joni
[16:57:02] <SWPadnos> I/XXIV/MMVII
[16:57:13] <SWPadnos> (if the romans cared about the date)
[16:57:40] <alex_joni> they did.. but used a slightly different calendar
[16:57:46] <SWPadnos> if only we could specify jog increments in roman numerals :)
[16:58:08] <jepler> SWPadnos: anyway, fixing "sudoedit gives nano" is one of the first things to do after a fresh ubuntu install
[16:58:20] <cradek> no kidding
[16:58:21] <alex_joni> jepler: it does give mc here :D
[16:58:28] <SWPadnos> heh - vi has syntax hilighting also, doesn't it?
[16:58:30] <alex_joni> and I like it that way
[16:58:30] <jepler> vim does
[16:58:39] <alex_joni> vii ?
[16:58:48] <SWPadnos> the editor "6"
[16:58:49] <alex_joni> vii of ix
[16:58:55] <SWPadnos> yummy
[16:58:56] <alex_joni> indeed
[16:59:16] <alex_joni> </insider joke>
[16:59:19] <skunkworks> bunch of goof balls.
[16:59:25] <SWPadnos> shaddap
[16:59:25] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:59:42] <alex_joni> stfu! u're just jealous :D
[17:00:08] <alex_joni> skunkworks: kidding.. btw, there was something I was meaning to ask you :P
[17:00:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: support units for jog distances: um, mm, cm, in, inch, mil
[17:01:36] <skunkworks> alex_joni: whats up?
[17:01:45] <skunkworks> deb testing?
[17:01:52] <skunkworks> no time yet :(
[17:03:00] <alex_joni> heh.. you seem to know the drill :P
[17:04:40] <jepler> new documentation for jog increments: http://pastebin.ca/326984
[17:05:36] <alex_joni> "machine's native unit" -> is that the TRAJ setting?
[17:05:40] <jepler> alex_joni: yes
[17:05:50] <alex_joni> or the corresponding AXIS/JOINT setting ?
[17:05:50] <jepler> I think so, anyway
[17:06:25] <fjungclaus> Oh, "units for jog distances"! Great! Somebody was able to read my thoughts (wishes) :)
[17:07:49] <jepler> alex_joni: if there are bugs in axis support for machines with different units for each axis, that's a separate issue
[17:08:12] <alex_joni> ok..
[17:08:28] <alex_joni> I think the doc you wrote there makes it clear for the user
[17:08:33] <jepler> (beyond having different units for XYZ and ABC)
[17:08:49] <alex_joni> it doesn't make it quite clear for me though, but I bet/hope users don't try all possible combos
[17:09:55] <jepler> it's not likely that a 1um jog will be useful on very many machines, I guess
[17:10:23] <jepler> can someone tell me what a good value for INCREMENTS on a metric machine really would be?
[17:10:59] <jepler> fjungclaus: you must have some idea
[17:13:54] <fjungclaus> My metric setup is: INCREMENTS= 0.0125 0.1 0.5 1.0 10.0
[17:14:35] <fjungclaus> Don't wonder about the 0.0125. That's the minimum stepwidth my machine is able to handle
[17:14:48] <cradek> ah I was just going to ask
[17:16:04] <SWPadnos> I suspect that a lot of people have near 1 uM resolution - that's only 25400 steps/inch
[17:16:14] <SWPadnos> whether it's useful to jog that little is another question
[17:16:49] <jepler> 0.5 but not 5.0?
[17:16:55] <jepler> I was thinking of changing it to this: INCREMENTS = 10mm, 1 mm, 0.5 mm, 0.1 mm, 0.5mm, 0.01 mm
[17:17:29] <jepler> er, something's not right there
[17:17:39] <cradek> one "step" on the pluto lathe is 1/6000 mm
[17:17:49] <jepler> INCREMENTS = 10 mm, 5 mm, 1 mm, 0.5 mm, 0.1 mm, 0.05mm, 0.01 mm
[17:18:17] <jepler> cradek: .167um?
[17:18:22] <cradek> yep
[17:18:24] <jepler> that seems a bit nutty
[17:18:32] <cradek> that's how the encoder worked out
[17:18:41] <SWPadnos> and JonE has his 120000 step/inch machine as well
[17:18:43] <cradek> of course it can't position like that
[17:18:50] <jepler> no I bet not
[17:19:46] <SWPadnos> 10TPI screw * 2000 steps/rev (for 10x microstepping steppers) = 20ksteps/inch, which is ~1.25 um /step
[17:20:04] <SWPadnos> (1.27, to be exact)
[17:21:42] <fjungclaus> jepler: Your metric suggestion sounds ok for me
[17:22:37] <jepler> cradek: you want to stake out a position on useful imperial step distances?
[17:23:21] <cradek> the smallest two should be .001 and .0001, the largest depends on the machine
[17:24:03] <cradek> for me the largest useful would probably be 1"
[17:24:20] <jepler> you wouldn't rather do that with continuous jog?
[17:24:39] <cradek> yes maybe
[17:24:49] <cradek> depends on the jog speed - on the lathe it's a little fast for that
[17:32:02] <skunkworks> I cringe using incrimental jog. for me I really don't see a use.
[17:32:59] <jepler> I usually use incremental jog for only the shortest jogs -- the final steps of a "touch off", basically
[17:33:49] <jepler> I might choose .005in, .001 in, <machine step> actually
[17:34:19] <skunkworks> I could see that - I guess I do touch off differently. I get the axis close - then measure the tool hight off the part.
[17:35:13] <jepler> cradek had a good system with a feeler gague and a .0001 final step size, for doing circuit boards
[17:35:21] <jepler> gauge
[17:35:25] <jepler> geez I'm spelling like skunkworks today
[17:35:29] <skunkworks> :)
[17:36:00] <fjungclaus> fjungclaus is now known as fjungclaus-away
[17:40:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx:
[17:40:13] <CIA-8> document new jog increment units feature
[17:40:13] <CIA-8> in axisrc example, show how to turn DTG on by default
[17:40:16] <skunkworks> we use this a lot for finding material.. http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,990648.html
[17:40:24] <skunkworks> hight
[17:45:07] <alex_joni> hight?
[17:45:22] <fjungclaus-away> fjungclaus-away is now known as fjungclaus
[17:46:32] <alex_joni> fjungclaus: since you're still messing with your IRC client.. make it join #emc-devel aswell
[17:49:03] <fjungclaus> jepler: "show how to turn DTG on by default": This is specially for me, isn't it :-) :-)
[17:51:03] <jepler> fjungclaus: mmmm could be
[17:51:25] <alex_joni> subconcious actions ;)
[17:51:30] <alex_joni> on both of you :P
[18:00:06] <fjungclaus> Anybody any suggestions for a nice irc-client? By now I'm using (aka fighting) with Chatzilla ...
[18:00:30] <jepler> fjungclaus: I like the terminal-based "irssi" program
[18:00:44] <alex_joni> xchat seems also nice
[18:00:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses irssi too
[18:03:03] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:03:08] <fjungclaus> TNX. I'll give them both a short look
[18:05:08] <fjungclaus> fjungclaus is now known as fjungclaus-away
[18:41:07] <anonimasu> hm
[18:41:21] <anonimasu> alex_joni: do you have any idea why my Z tris to keep up with all other axes
[18:41:41] <anonimasu> even though I've limited it in my config
[18:45:51] <skunkworks> what do you mean?
[18:51:19] <anonimasu> on this line
[18:51:30] <anonimasu> G91G28Z0.
[18:51:30] <anonimasu> G28X0.Y0.G91G28Z0.
[18:51:31] <anonimasu> G28X0.Y0.
[18:51:38] <anonimasu> err dan
[18:51:41] <anonimasu> damn
[18:51:47] <anonimasu> M5
[18:51:46] <anonimasu> G91G28Z0.
[18:51:46] <anonimasu> G28X0.Y0.
[18:51:52] <anonimasu> there's the right one..
[18:52:00] <anonimasu> and when I jog X or Y and Z
[18:52:15] <anonimasu> Z tries to keep up and starts mising steps..
[18:55:08] <anonimasu> skunkworks: do you understand?
[18:58:43] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, why are you using G91 on those lines?
[18:58:53] <SWPadnos> G91Z0 should result in no motion ...
[18:59:08] <anonimasu> it does..
[18:59:19] <anonimasu> g28z0
[18:59:44] <anonimasu> in incremental mode
[19:00:17] <anonimasu> G28 Automatic return to reference point G28 Automatic Zero Return
[19:01:06] <skunkworks> g28 is go home. I read it is - go home through xyz point.
[19:01:09] <SWPadnos> G28 homes all axes, not those specified
[19:01:42] <SWPadnos> right - if you specify a position, then the sequence is "go to position, then go to home"
[19:04:48] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:05:39] <SWPadnos> if you try G0 <whatever the home coordinates are>, do you still have problems with Z?
[19:06:07] <SWPadnos> if so, then I'd suspect a configuration issue. if not, then the interp is busted, since G28 is equivalent to G0
[19:07:47] <anonimasu> it does the same when jogging Z and other axes at the same time
[19:08:09] <anonimasu> g0 for just Z works.
[19:08:12] <SWPadnos> ko, so there's wither a config problem, or there's a TP problem (I'm betting on config ;) )
[19:08:17] <anonimasu> probably
[19:08:18] <SWPadnos> s/ko/ok/
[19:08:21] <anonimasu> I can post the config in a bit..
[19:08:28] <SWPadnos> can you pastebin it?
[19:08:30] <anonimasu> just need to go out and shop some
[19:08:36] <anonimasu> will you be here a while?
[19:08:43] <SWPadnos> in and out, but yes
[19:08:46] <anonimasu> great!
[19:08:47] <anonimasu> thanks :)
[19:09:04] <SWPadnos> you're welcome (in case I help any :) )
[19:20:35] <slundell> I'm planning on setting up a dual stepper gantry. Would it be possible to "replicate" the axis by connecting dir/step to both motors drivers, and their individual homing switches in series?
[19:20:49] <slundell> Or should I go the "software" way?
[19:22:14] <SWPadnos> software is probably better, since homing can be a problem if the two motors are driven by identical signals
[19:22:43] <SWPadnos> ie, you would have no easy way to "un-rack" the motors if they ever got out of synch
[19:28:51] <slundell> You mean if they are so out of sync that the gantry jams.
[19:34:14] <Dallur> slundell: Even if you want to use the same step/dir signals to drive both motors I recommend multiplexing the signal in HAL by hooking up multiple output pins to the same signal generator, much easier than doing hardware and much better (this is what I did btw)
[19:35:15] <Dallur> slundell: I plan to test out the new gantry kins soon though :D
[19:35:26] <slundell> Dallur: oki, servos or steppers?
[19:35:32] <Dallur> slundell: steppers
[19:35:40] <Dallur> slundell: you ?
[19:35:47] <slundell> steppers
[19:36:17] <Dallur> slundell: it also saves you from reversing the phases on the motors to make one motor run backwards, you can just reverse the signal in software
[19:36:52] <slundell> How about homing, were there any problems?
[19:37:00] <Dallur> slundell: dallur-thc config in 2.1 is my config which you can look at
[19:37:24] <Dallur> slundell: I do manual homing at the moment, but gantry kins will solve homing by enabling me to sync the sides during the homing cycle
[19:37:37] <slundell> thanks, will look at that.
[19:37:45] <Dallur> slundell: np
[19:38:55] <slundell> Do you have any kind of feedback from the steppers?
[19:39:19] <Dallur> slundell: I don't have any encoders or optics no, the only feedback I have is the limit/home switches
[19:40:28] <marley> god evening
[19:40:57] <Dallur> evening
[19:41:19] <slundell> I was thinking that one could use some sort of adjustable switches to be able to tune the alignment.
[19:41:24] <slundell> evening
[19:41:44] <marley> Huston, i heve a problem.... a big problem
[19:41:54] <awallin> hi all, what's going on?
[19:41:54] <marley> in mi system
[19:42:01] <slundell> .... we have a mains B undervolt...
[19:42:33] <marley> ??
[19:42:42] <Dallur> slundell: I use inductive NC switches for the home/limit switches, those work just fine and your table really should have those for safety
[19:42:48] <slundell> sorry, that is from apollo 13
[19:43:29] <Dallur> slundell: This way the homing sequence that is already in EMC with gantry kins can automatically sync up your gantry sides during the homing cycle
[19:43:59] <skunkworks> marley: what is the problem?
[19:44:12] <marley> this problem is, joint 2 following error
[19:44:17] <slundell> dallur: oki. Do you mean that standard micro switches won't do?
[19:44:30] <skunkworks> can you pastebin.ca your ini file?
[19:44:57] <Dallur> slundell: standard microswitches are just fine if they work for you, depends a bit on what you are doing with your table though, interference from plasma HF throws many switches
[19:45:05] <marley> no, because i´m in windowsssss
[19:45:53] <Dallur> slundell: I prefer solid state switches myself but that's just me :D
[19:45:57] <slundell> dallur: this is router that i build for fun. I have no plans on adding a plasma or such.
[19:46:09] <marley> haw to configure ferror
[19:46:13] <marley> ?
[19:46:17] <skunkworks> marley: could be a few things. running the axis too fast for your base period, You don't have any headroom in the stepgen max velocity,max accelleration.
[19:46:28] <skunkworks> marley: steppers I assume?
[19:46:50] <Dallur> slundell: then your microswitches are probably all you need, might want to check the repeatability though depending on how you mount them and what kind of switches they are
[19:46:57] <marley> yes, steppers
[19:47:20] <slundell> dallur: K, will have solid state switches on Z, because the actuator was shipped with them. microswitches on both Ys and X.
[19:47:31] <cradek> marley: it's impossible to help without seeing your ini file. You have a misconfiguration.
[19:47:43] <slundell> dallur: that was my next question, the repetability of microswitches...
[19:48:13] <marley> in ini file ferror, is 20.
[19:48:44] <cradek> marley: it's impossible to help without seeing your ini file. You have a misconfiguration.
[19:49:04] <Dallur> slundell: I don't have enough experience to help you with that question (or the info), probably just need to try it a couple of times and measure
[19:49:23] <marley> friends watt is ferror?
[19:49:47] <skunkworks> marley: proper setup of the ini file will most likely never have issues with the default following error settings.
[19:49:47] <awallin> following error
[19:50:04] <marley> thanks
[19:50:06] <skunkworks> We really need to see your ini file.
[19:50:17] <cradek> with steppers, it just means you have configured the ini file incorrectly
[19:50:17] <marley> ok
[19:50:26] <marley> i see it
[19:50:50] <marley> please one moment
[19:51:00] <marley> and i paste it in pastebin ok?
[19:53:27] <marley> friend
[19:53:36] <marley> friend
[19:53:47] <marley> my paste bin is:
[19:54:05] <marley> http://www.pastebin.ca/327187
[19:54:03] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/univstep.ini
[19:54:07] <anonimasu> that's the config
[19:54:10] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:54:48] <marley> ?
[19:55:02] <marley> pk?
[19:55:07] <marley> my pastebin is http://www.pastebin.ca/327187
[19:55:36] <marley> ok?
[19:56:08] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, two things jump out at me: first, Z is the only one with nonzero backlash, second, Z has ~4x the resolution
[19:56:22] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, can you also like to the .hal file(s) (or are they unmodified?)
[19:56:28] <SWPadnos> s/like/link/
[19:56:35] <marley> you see mi ini file?
[19:56:49] <anonimasu> unmodified..
[19:57:20] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:57:19] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: the Z axis cant have backslash.. as it's damn heavy..
[19:57:55] <SWPadnos> I see [AXIS_2]BACKLASH = 0.011
[19:58:17] <anonimasu> maybe I did set it.
[19:58:36] <anonimasu> I suspect it's a accel issue
[19:58:53] <anonimasu> MAX_VELOCITY = 5.0
[19:58:53] <anonimasu> MAX_ACCELERATION = 20.0
[20:00:08] <marley> ?
[20:00:26] <SWPadnos> well, it's possible that the TP is mishandling widely disparate accels, but I thought that was all fixed
[20:00:32] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:00:36] <anonimasu> this is with head.
[20:01:05] <SWPadnos> I don't think that's been broken lately ...
[20:01:06] <marley> i do maker?
[20:01:22] <anonimasu> 2006-10-29
[20:01:26] <SWPadnos> marley - I'm looking, please wait a little
[20:01:27] <anonimasu> is when I grabbed it..
[20:01:33] <alex_joni> marley: DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 2000.0
[20:01:36] <alex_joni> that is not correct
[20:02:57] <SWPadnos> argh - is output_scale still being written to the ini?
[20:03:07] <jepler> SWPadnos: surely not
[20:03:25] <SWPadnos> I'm led to believe that by the single spaces around the = sign
[20:03:32] <jepler> I think you could line up several people who are sure we took out all the "ini writing" behavior long ago
[20:03:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is amongst those people
[20:03:54] <SWPadnos> I agree - that's why I ask incredulously ...
[20:03:56] <cradek> I took it out
[20:04:12] <alex_joni> and I'm someho pretty sure OUTPUT_SCALE is useless for steppers
[20:04:34] <SWPadnos> yeah, which is a whole other topic ;)
[20:05:05] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: what do you think about the accel?
[20:05:05] <anonimasu> it
[20:05:14] <anonimasu> the motor's pretty small for that axis..
[20:05:20] <anonimasu> so that may be the issue..
[20:05:27] <anonimasu> but it occurs when jogging also
[20:05:30] <SWPadnos> dunno - it's strange that it works fine on Z-only G0 moves
[20:05:36] <SWPadnos> or does it?
[20:05:38] <alex_joni> anonimasu: can you step back a bit?
[20:05:43] <alex_joni> I wasn't around :)
[20:05:51] <anonimasu> www.almaskin.se/univstep.ini
[20:05:54] <anonimasu> there
[20:05:56] <alex_joni> opening now..
[20:05:59] <anonimasu> my Z axis ( AXIS_2 )
[20:06:17] <anonimasu> misses when jogging X or Y togther with it
[20:06:26] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, look around 20:42 (your time, assuming it's ~22:08 there now :) )
[20:06:49] <cradek> what is "misses"?
[20:07:04] <anonimasu> cradek: it goes "whirr"
[20:07:19] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, are you using the USC in "internal feedback" mode?
[20:07:24] <SWPadnos> or do you actually have encoders?
[20:07:26] <anonimasu> yes
[20:07:34] <anonimasu> I do on X and Y but they are not connected..
[20:07:38] <anonimasu> they are servo axes..
[20:08:00] <alex_joni> whirr sounds like too much accel
[20:08:06] <anonimasu> yeah..
[20:08:16] <anonimasu> but shouldnt a g0 be at the fastest rate possible?
[20:08:37] <alex_joni> right
[20:08:43] <SWPadnos> ok, so you're running geckos with the USC, and are using the encoder counters to count the steps output, not encoder feedback ...
[20:08:48] <alex_joni> maybe MAX_ACCEL = 20 is too much
[20:08:51] <anonimasu> yes
[20:09:09] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: yep
[20:09:34] <SWPadnos> and you get ferrors, not just weird noises and a machine in the wrong position?
[20:09:35] <anonimasu> no
[20:09:43] <anonimasu> the stepper goes too fast..
[20:09:54] <anonimasu> "whirr" just like when thre's too much accel..
[20:09:59] <anonimasu> but I dont know where it comes from
[20:09:59] <SWPadnos> ah - ok. I thought you were getting errors in EMC2
[20:10:06] <anonimasu> no
[20:10:06] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I suggest you scope the velocity/accel for that axis
[20:10:20] <SWPadnos> you need to tune the accel/vel parameters
[20:10:26] <alex_joni> set the limits tighter to ensure EMC2 does what it needs
[20:10:31] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: ferror?
[20:10:36] <anonimasu> or what limits
[20:10:41] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I can scope it right now
[20:11:15] <anonimasu> if you hold on
[20:11:16] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, what?
[20:11:35] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: the thing is that a G0 should be at max_accel right?
[20:11:43] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:11:55] <anonimasu> then something is wrong
[20:12:04] <SWPadnos> actually, any move should be at max_accel, I think
[20:12:10] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: when I do g0 it works..
[20:12:11] <SWPadnos> at least any independent move
[20:12:34] <anonimasu> maybe 20 is just too fast..
[20:12:41] <anonimasu> that's 20 units/s
[20:12:45] <Jymmmm> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070122/ap_on_fe_st/tiny_apartment
[20:12:55] <anonimasu> ^2
[20:12:55] <anonimasu> right?
[20:13:02] <awallin> anonimasu: is this in mm?
[20:13:23] <anonimasu> 20mm/s^2
[20:13:26] <anonimasu> I think..
[20:13:37] <awallin> so it would acc to 20mm/s or 1200mm/min in one second
[20:14:19] <anonimasu> I cant remember
[20:14:20] <anonimasu> :/
[20:15:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: 200mm/s/s
[20:15:26] <alex_joni> anonimasu: err.. 20mm/s/s
[20:15:37] <alex_joni> that means you get 20 mm/sec in one sec
[20:16:03] <alex_joni> so, for your max vel of 5 mm/sec, you need about 1/4 seconds
[20:16:21] <alex_joni> sounds like quite an accel
[20:17:01] <awallin> depends on the motors and the weight to move ofcourse, and ballscrew/vs normal thread etc.
[20:18:26] <awallin> I'm eager to see what ACC/VEL the 1100ozin motors and 2.5mm ballscrews will give me
[20:18:48] <awallin> once I get the servo electronics done, and the mechanics... so that means 1-2months at least
[20:21:14] <Dallur> awallin: sounds like you will be able to form metal with a stationary spindle :P
[20:21:15] <awallin> I think the table weighs about 40kg, so from the torque and ballscrew pitch it should be possible to calculate some upper bound
[20:21:24] <anonimasu> hm
[20:21:33] <anonimasu> it happens with 10 as accel..
[20:21:44] <awallin> Dallur: 1100ozin is the peak torque
[20:22:34] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I see lots of PID settings there
[20:22:43] <alex_joni> do those get used by the UxC ?
[20:22:44] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[20:23:11] <Dallur> hey LH
[20:23:11] <anonimasu> yes
[20:23:26] <anonimasu> alex_joni: this works fine, but when I move another axis _whirr_
[20:23:52] <anonimasu> want me to plot them?
[20:24:07] <alex_joni> yes
[20:24:08] <cradek> yes more data than "whirr" would be great :-)
[20:24:20] <alex_joni> whirrr?
[20:24:27] <cradek> yes, whirr
[20:24:30] <alex_joni> or whirrrrr?
[20:24:34] <cradek> that's the bug report :-)
[20:24:55] <alex_joni> I mean: does it go whirr by itself and whirrrr with another axis?
[20:25:07] <anonimasu> it goes whirr when I move another axis..
[20:25:10] <anonimasu> servos never go whirr.
[20:25:17] <anonimasu> they just move smoothly..
[20:25:16] <anonimasu> :D
[20:25:28] <anonimasu> cradek: the stepper over accelerates.
[20:26:32] <awallin> ah, I already calculated it earlier, 1.6Nm torque with a 2.5mm pitch ballscrew, 80% efficiency should give about 3000N of force. with a table weighing 50kg I get: a = F/m = 3000N/50kg= 60 m/s^2 ! wow
[20:27:01] <anonimasu> :)
[20:27:30] <anonimasu> I have emc2 running by remote now
[20:28:04] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin; don't forget about the force the cutter places
[20:28:20] <awallin> that's with the rated continuous torque... maybe I made a mistake, 6g sounds like a lot for this system
[20:28:28] <anonimasu> 6G¤!3
[20:28:33] <anonimasu> 1G is damn fast
[20:28:42] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: yeah, this would be for rapids only
[20:28:49] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[20:29:01] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, 1g isn't exactly fast is it?
[20:29:07] <anonimasu> yes 1g is fats..
[20:29:08] <anonimasu> fast..
[20:29:11] <awallin> anonimasu: well, I haven't taken into account the inertia of the rotating parts at all, I wonder how much that is
[20:29:16] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, IMO it isn't :p
[20:29:42] <lerneaen_hydra> not super fast
[20:29:48] <lerneaen_hydra> about good enough though
[20:29:50] <anonimasu> try taking a corner, at 1g with a machien..
[20:29:52] <anonimasu> machine..
[20:30:04] <lerneaen_hydra> while machining is a different thing ;)
[20:30:09] <anonimasu> bah..
[20:30:15] <Jymmmm> with or w/o it being anchored 5' into the ground?
[20:30:19] <lerneaen_hydra> just doing stuff in air, no cutting force seems easy
[20:30:36] <Jymmmm> anonimasu: with or w/o it being anchored 5' into the ground?
[20:30:40] <anonimasu> Jymmmm: without :D
[20:30:53] <lerneaen_hydra> I mean, just take an object and drop it in your hand
[20:31:06] <lerneaen_hydra> doesn't seem to be unreasonably fast accel
[20:31:05] <Jymmmm> anonimasu Awwwwww, that's no fun.... I'd liek to see the foundation shift ever so slightly
[20:31:06] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: a 50kg object
[20:31:16] <anonimasu> :)
[20:31:22] <lerneaen_hydra> the accel is the same regardless of weight
[20:31:26] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: most hobby machines isnt capable of 1g
[20:31:43] <lerneaen_hydra> not hobby machines no
[20:31:57] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, was this a hobby machine awallin was going to add it to?
[20:31:58] <Jymmmm> Heh, I can make my machine jump sideways
[20:32:02] <skunkworks> we have 2 feet of concrete under our big machine. but it is also what connects x/z to y
[20:32:19] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: do you have any idea how fast 6g is..?
[20:32:27] <anonimasu> :D
[20:32:28] <lerneaen_hydra> it was bit scary when I ran a OMFG-big lathe that wasn't anchored and did G1 moves
[20:32:45] <Jymmmm> Heh, I can make my machine jump sideways if I crank it up, and that's NO WHERE NEAR a 1g
[20:32:48] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu; 6G is fast as hell, 1G is more "ok"
[20:33:14] <anonimasu> hm, so nobody has any idea about my issue?
[20:33:35] <awallin> I seem to remember the ballscrews have some limit on dynamic loading... maybe that will limit what acc I can get
[20:33:39] <cradek> I thought you were going to get us some plots of the problem
[20:33:48] <anonimasu> cradek: what plots do you want?
[20:33:54] <anonimasu> accel/vel of that particular axis=
[20:34:16] <cradek> a plot that demonstrates whatever you think is the wrong behavior
[20:34:36] <anonimasu> cradek: well, I'd think it would be when Z ignores the acceleration limit set
[20:34:45] <anonimasu> im getting a plot of the accel now
[20:34:48] <cradek> ok
[20:34:48] <awallin> probably the commanded velocity and the actual velocity would be something to look at
[20:36:03] <anonimasu> what's thoose parameters called?
[20:36:41] <anonimasu> I can find accel but not velocity
[20:36:46] <anonimasu> err vel but not accel
[20:37:04] <awallin> vel should be enough
[20:37:24] <awallin> you probably would need to calculate acc yourself with a ddt hal comp
[20:37:35] <anonimasu> well, it should be visible..
[20:37:41] <anonimasu> it's a big difference
[20:38:05] <alex_joni> anonimasu: add another ddt
[20:38:13] <alex_joni> link the velocity to it's input, output is accel
[20:38:20] <cradek> a very basic test here (g0z1 vs g0z1x.1) shows sane accelerations
[20:38:29] <anonimasu> cradek: they
[20:38:33] <anonimasu> g0/g1 works well..
[20:38:35] <alex_joni> cradek: on the same config?
[20:38:41] <cradek> no, on sim
[20:38:43] <alex_joni> I mean settings
[20:38:45] <cradek> anonimasu: what doesn't work?
[20:39:16] <anonimasu> cradek: When I move X And Z the stepper accelerates too fast
[20:39:28] <anonimasu> faster then the limits should allow it to
[20:39:33] <alex_joni> anonimasu: read again what cradek said
[20:39:47] <alex_joni> (g0z1 vs g0z1x.1)
[20:39:55] <cradek> I also tried g0z1x1
[20:40:44] <anonimasu> trying to find what pin to check
[20:41:35] <alex_joni> anonimasu: check for signals, those are usually labeled better :D
[20:41:37] <anonimasu> I suck with halscope..
[20:41:56] <anonimasu> ok
[20:43:02] <cradek> you may not have vel or accel signals - you have to generate those with ddt (see sim/axis)
[20:43:32] <anonimasu> hm, I have.. a vel signal
[20:43:38] <jepler> core_sim.hal or something like that?
[20:43:56] <anonimasu> do you just have to load it?
[20:44:05] <cradek> anonimasu: what motion causes this? you said not g0 or g1?
[20:44:11] <anonimasu> cradek: no, jogging
[20:44:18] <cradek> oh JOGGING
[20:44:23] <anonimasu> cradek: and that particular G28 command..
[20:44:32] <anonimasu> G91G20Z0
[20:44:35] <cradek> G28 is the same as one or two G0
[20:44:40] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:44:46] <anonimasu> but it makes it occur..
[20:44:48] <cradek> what's G20?
[20:44:51] <anonimasu> as it moves seveal axes fast..
[20:44:57] <anonimasu> err g28..
[20:44:59] <jepler> cradek: select units?
[20:44:59] <anonimasu> typo
[20:45:43] <jepler> g91 g28 is an odd combination
[20:46:14] <cradek> I was just pondering that
[20:46:24] <cradek> what is that supposed to do?
[20:46:31] <anonimasu> go to zero..
[20:46:49] <cradek> G91 Z0 isn't even a move is it?
[20:47:00] <alex_joni> G91 only selects
[20:47:15] <alex_joni> it can be on a line by itself, or concated with other moves
[20:48:45] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ (ppmc.ini ppmc_motion.hal): get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:48:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/ (univpwm.ini univpwm_motion.hal): get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:48:48] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_motion.hal: get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:56:42] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ (ppmc.ini ppmc_motion.hal): get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:56:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/ (univpwm.ini univpwm_motion.hal): get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:56:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_motion.hal: get rid of PWM_OUTPUT_SCALE in favour of OUTPUT_SCALE. emc2 doesn't write anything on shutdown anymore, so it's safe
[20:57:48] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/.cvsignore: ignore copied emc.nml
[21:00:41] <anonimasu> iab
[21:00:50] <anonimasu> sorry I had to run out a bit
[21:01:22] <anonimasu> Yeah, I think this error occurs when doing g0 also..
[21:01:44] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:45] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:45] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:50] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/max/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:54] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:56] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:01:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:02:00] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:02:02] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:02:02] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:02:06] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:02:10] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/.cvsignore: remove core_axis.hal
[21:07:55] <anonimasu> §:/
[21:08:09] <anonimasu> it's kind of disturbing, loosing your Z axis in the middle of a job isnt fun :)
[21:08:12] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:13] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:13] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:15] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:18] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:19] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:22] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/max/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:30] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/motenc/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:31] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:40] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stg/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:48] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:51] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/vti/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:08:53] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univstep/.cvsignore: backport: core_axis.hal doesn't exist anymore
[21:09:03] <alex_joni> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/EMC
[21:09:05] <alex_joni> hahaha
[21:10:30] <anonimasu> hm, there's this show where there are some porn actresses, that want to be real actors. in a play
[21:10:31] <anonimasu> it's hillarious
[21:11:02] <jepler> ... and they'll do anything to get the role?
[21:11:07] <anonimasu> no
[21:11:10] <jepler> oh then forget it
[21:11:12] <anonimasu> they have to convince some judges..
[21:11:15] <anonimasu> and they suck :D
[21:11:26] <anonimasu> "uh, but then you have to like read books, and that takes time"
[21:11:26] <jepler> yeah, that's kinda what I was suggesting
[21:11:40] <anonimasu> some english reality show :D
[21:12:09] <alex_joni> did you get the time in the future on the cia page?
[21:12:43] <anonimasu> I'm getting xwin32 so I can run emc and get that damn plot..
[21:12:57] <anonimasu> I cant remember what I plottes last time..
[21:13:02] <anonimasu> but then I werent running head
[21:13:08] <alex_joni> 57s in the future EMC
[21:13:15] <anonimasu> ;D
[21:13:30] <jepler> alex_joni: says "3 minutes ago" now
[21:13:59] <fjungclaus-away> fjungclaus-away is now known as fjungclaus
[21:14:05] <alex_joni> well.. it was 4 minutes ago :)
[21:17:46] <anonimasu> hm
[21:17:49] <anonimasu> now I have it running again..
[21:19:32] <Dallur> later, im heading home
[21:31:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[21:31:47] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra farts in your general direction!
[21:32:01] <lerneaen_hydra> your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
[21:34:16] <anonimasu> hm
[21:34:25] <anonimasu> now how do you link that stuff so I can see velocitites?
[21:38:33] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu; you didn't get the reference?
[21:39:10] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: the what?
[21:39:13] <anonimasu> manual?
[21:39:19] <anonimasu> yeah, it looks like my scope's broken today :/
[21:39:35] <lerneaen_hydra> no, the "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!" bit
[21:39:42] <alex_joni> anonimasu: loadrt ddt count=3
[21:39:44] <anonimasu> ah
[21:39:48] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it's =6 right now
[21:39:50] <anonimasu> in the config
[21:40:00] <alex_joni> addf ddt.0 servo-thread
[21:40:11] <alex_joni> .. (for the others)
[21:40:37] <alex_joni> linksp Xpos-cmd => ddt.0.in
[21:40:44] <alex_joni> position into ddt0
[21:40:50] <alex_joni> output is velocity
[21:41:00] <alex_joni> linkps ddt.0.out => Xvel
[21:41:15] <alex_joni> linksp Xvel => ddt.1.in
[21:41:21] <alex_joni> linkps ddt.1.out => Xacc
[21:42:36] <alex_joni> if you look at sim/servo_sim.hal you'll see what I just wrote
[21:42:36] <SWPadnos> doesn't the canonical encoder interface have a delts / velocity output?
[21:42:41] <alex_joni> but for all 6 axes
[21:42:49] <SWPadnos> delta, thatwas
[21:42:56] <anonimasu> now lets see..
[21:43:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: wanna bet that the univ* doesn't have it ?
[21:43:17] <SWPadnos> dunno - it's been a while since I worked on it :)
[21:43:57] <alex_joni> I never touched it.. except backporting it
[21:45:32] <SWPadnos> yep. there's a delta output
[21:45:41] <SWPadnos> ppmc.0.encoder.n.delta
[21:45:44] <anonimasu> ah
[21:45:45] <alex_joni> ha, I was wrong :D
[21:45:51] <SWPadnos> I thought I put that in there :)
[21:45:59] <SWPadnos> (then again, someone may have added it after me :) )
[21:46:00] <alex_joni> you still need to get that into a ddt
[21:46:06] <SWPadnos> not the delta
[21:46:16] <alex_joni> to get accel?
[21:46:25] <anonimasu> damn
[21:46:25] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - for accel you do
[21:46:26] <anonimasu> this dosent work
[21:46:43] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what doesn't ?
[21:47:10] <anonimasu> the addf stuff..
[21:47:13] <anonimasu> for getting accel..
[21:47:17] <alex_joni> what's the error?
[21:47:39] <cradek> why not just try to reproduce the error in sim/axis which has all this stuff already
[21:47:55] <alex_joni> cradek: maybe because the error is only visible on the motor..
[21:48:02] <alex_joni> it might not even be an emc2 error
[21:48:23] <alex_joni> simply a ppmc/UxC/univ* misconfiguration
[21:48:32] <anonimasu> hm, it's with the almost stock config..
[21:48:32] <alex_joni> I can't keep those boards apart :)
[21:49:01] <alex_joni> anonimasu: it's univstep.. right?
[21:49:05] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:49:28] <alex_joni> I see that has PID in it
[21:49:33] <anonimasu> I got it working
[21:49:37] <alex_joni> bet you need to tune it
[21:49:39] <anonimasu> no..
[21:49:46] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it should be tuned..
[21:49:50] <anonimasu> i've done that before already..
[21:50:10] <alex_joni> when steppers go whirrr.. I think it's not tuned :D
[21:50:24] <anonimasu> why dosent it do that on normal motion
[21:50:30] <anonimasu> just when interpolated?
[21:50:39] <SWPadnos> when you're using step-to-servo drives, and you don't attach the servo encoders to the USC, you shouldn't use PID (I think)
[21:50:56] <anonimasu> HAL:109: ERROR: systemv failed, returned 1
[21:50:57] <anonimasu> HAL:109: ERROR: insmod failed, returned -1
[21:51:15] <alex_joni> huh? how did you get that?
[21:51:23] <alex_joni> did you sudo make setuid ?
[21:51:25] <anonimasu> I added the stuff from sim into the file..
[21:51:27] <SWPadnos> actaully, I take that back. you still need an I term to make sure the endpoint is reached
[21:51:46] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what emc2 are you running?
[21:52:01] <anonimasu> head..
[21:52:03] <SWPadnos> you need to change the ddt num=6 to num=9 (or whatever 6+the number you need for scoping is)
[21:52:11] <alex_joni> oh, and you can't have more than one loadrt ddt line in the hal file
[21:52:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[21:52:25] <anonimasu> 2006-10-30
[21:52:27] <alex_joni> night all
[21:52:32] <SWPadnos> nighty night alex
[21:52:35] <anonimasu> night alex
[21:55:28] <anonimasu> this stuff makes me insane.
[21:56:56] <col> saying good night?
[21:57:12] <anonimasu> col: really funny
[21:57:19] <anonimasu> having a axis that dosent work as supposed..
[21:59:58] <anonimasu> and not a damn clue how to even plot anything
[22:00:44] <fenn> have you checked the realtime latency?
[22:01:08] <fenn> maybe you need more gigabytes
[22:01:20] <anonimasu> this is with a usc
[22:01:43] <fenn> try it with the power to x/y disconnected
[22:02:00] <jepler> fenn: surely that'll just ferror x and y right away
[22:02:07] <fenn> well, turn up ferror too
[22:02:08] <anonimasu> jepler: as I have no feedback i twont..
[22:02:10] <anonimasu> it wont..
[22:02:22] <anonimasu> also I have a 200A power supply..
[22:02:28] <anonimasu> or was it 300..
[22:02:32] <fenn> could be noise on the lines or something
[22:03:06] <SWPLinux> unlikely, since the encoders aren't being fed back to EMC
[22:03:26] <fenn> no, noise on the step/dir lines
[22:03:27] <col> :P
[22:03:47] <anonimasu> I doubt that very much.
[22:03:59] <fenn> got any other ideas?
[22:04:02] <anonimasu> fenn: I'd get gross errors on the servos.. also..
[22:04:20] <anonimasu> fenn: they stay still when jogging other axes..
[22:04:32] <fenn> if you turn down z accel and top speed,does it still happen?
[22:05:13] <anonimasu> yes
[22:05:18] <anonimasu> top speed, I dont know
[22:05:20] <anonimasu> but accel..
[22:06:16] <anonimasu> max_velocity is 5 btw..
[22:06:49] <anonimasu> fenn: _if_ you want I can put up the scope on the step/dir lines..
[22:07:11] <anonimasu> but I've ran a scope on other stuff and I have no noise whatsoever
[22:07:46] <skunkworks> wait -where is your servo loop? is it just in the gecko's?
[22:07:53] <fenn> well, ruling out a possibility never hurts
[22:07:56] <anonimasu> it's just in the geckos.
[22:08:17] <skunkworks> so how are you getting following errors? are you not just sending out step and directions
[22:08:16] <anonimasu> skunkworks: 2 g340'
[22:08:22] <anonimasu> it's not following errors..
[22:08:28] <anonimasu> it's physical errors on my Z axis..
[22:08:33] <anonimasu> the only stepper on my machine..
[22:09:07] <skunkworks> ah.
[22:09:20] <anonimasu> it overspeeds when jogging X/Y togther with it..
[22:09:28] <anonimasu> or over accelerates
[22:09:45] <skunkworks> did this just start?
[22:09:51] <anonimasu> no
[22:10:11] <anonimasu> but I havent made lots of parts and I've seldom experienced it..
[22:10:15] <anonimasu> I could take it at the end of a part..
[22:11:19] <anonimasu> but, now that I need to make some parts it's a bother..
[22:13:13] <skunkworks> Sorry - was not up to speed. are you also running a gecko for the z?
[22:13:23] <anonimasu> yes
[22:13:27] <anonimasu> but a stepper gecko
[22:13:33] <skunkworks> right
[22:16:10] <bob> friends please explain me what he is ferror and as I can decide my problem
[22:16:38] <bob> joint 2 folinwinf error
[22:16:50] <bob> joint 2 folinwing error
[22:17:10] <anonimasu> it goes away with accel set to 2.5
[22:17:17] <anonimasu> err vel to 2.5
[22:17:39] <bob> watt is accel
[22:17:57] <anonimasu> acceleration
[22:18:16] <bob> st my acceleration in 2.5?
[22:18:20] <bob> its i slow
[22:18:25] <anonimasu> what?
[22:18:40] <anonimasu> sorry
[22:18:42] <bob> ser my accelaration in 2.5?
[22:18:46] <bob> set my accelaration in 2.5?
[22:18:47] <anonimasu> we are troubleshooting mine :D
[22:18:56] <anonimasu> dont set it to that..
[22:19:05] <bob> ?
[22:19:48] <bob> how to function off ferror in file ini?
[22:19:56] <anonimasu> you cant
[22:19:59] <anonimasu> but you can increase it
[22:20:21] <anonimasu> ultimately you want to take a look a P I D tuning also
[22:21:25] <bob> ?
[22:21:41] <bob> friend please
[22:22:01] <bob> i have one machine for client
[22:22:12] <bob> i need yor help
[22:22:28] <anonimasu> I can try to in a bit. im out by my machine
[22:22:35] <anonimasu> and I have shitty kbd.. so chatting is a pain
[22:23:41] <bob> friend you say me watt function off ferror in file ini?
[22:24:12] <anonimasu> You cant turn off ferror, but you can increase it.
[22:24:19] <anonimasu> ferror and min_ferror
[22:24:49] <bob> ?
[22:25:01] <bob> You cant turn off ferror?
[22:25:04] <anonimasu> no
[22:25:42] <bob> friend i have one motor for axix Z
[22:25:44] <anonimasu> that's right
[22:26:03] <anonimasu> what kind of machine is this?
[22:26:11] <bob> and this motor turn 200 pulse for one revolve
[22:26:26] <bob> what a ferror fot this?
[22:27:26] <anonimasu> I have no idea what your settings are
[22:27:42] <anonimasu> look in the INI file and increase it
[22:27:58] <bob> frined
[22:28:02] <bob> im my file INI
[22:28:11] <bob> ferror is 20
[22:28:15] <anonimasu> is that mm?
[22:28:24] <bob> yes
[22:28:29] <anonimasu> min_ferror?
[22:28:44] <bob> 1
[22:29:02] <anonimasu> that's pretty large
[22:29:16] <bob> watt i make?
[22:29:29] <bob> i dont ferror?
[22:29:33] <anonimasu> Look at pid tuning in the wiki
[22:29:52] <bob> I do not know what he is ferror
[22:30:19] <bob> it would like to understand the concept
[22:30:24] <anonimasu> ok
[22:30:33] <anonimasu> IÃ can explain it when I get inside
[22:31:09] <bob> thus it could decide my problem
[22:31:45] <bob> it could teach to me?
[22:33:14] <anonimasu> yes
[22:35:21] <bob> ok, it describes me for me.
[22:36:50] <bob> ?
[22:38:33] <bob> hello...
[22:39:01] <rayh> Hi bob. This is a stepper driven machine?
[22:39:21] <anonimasu> rayh: as he said 200 steps per revolution I would assume it is :)
[22:39:37] <anonimasu> bob: ferror is how much the machine is off where it should be
[22:39:42] <anonimasu> off from where it should be
[22:39:50] <skunkworks> it is a stepping machine.
[22:40:03] <anonimasu> bob: internally in the EMC step generator
[22:40:04] <bob> yes... steps motors ...
[22:40:16] <anonimasu> skunkworks: I found my error
[22:40:18] <anonimasu> too much accel..
[22:40:21] <skunkworks> good
[22:40:26] <anonimasu> I can go to 500mm/min with the steppers..
[22:40:26] <anonimasu> stepper..
[22:40:32] <anonimasu> but with a low accel..
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> so im going to gear it 2 times more then now..
[22:40:50] <skunkworks> I run around under 10 inches per second^2 on my machine.
[22:40:58] <anonimasu> I need 200mm/min and nice accel..
[22:41:13] <anonimasu> :)
[22:41:17] <anonimasu> accel is everything speed is not
[22:41:35] <rayh> bob: What configuration are you using?
[22:41:41] <anonimasu> atleast for a usable machine
[22:44:58] <bob> ok... one moment please... i'm go my configuration...
[22:47:53] <bob> I take a beer for my credit, until to see everything.
[22:49:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:51:00] <bob> 1 beer for my account takes you in www.virtualbartender.com... :)
[22:52:42] <bob> sorry in www.virtualbartender.beer.com :)
[22:59:54] <SWPadnos> I guess everyone went there and typed in "catfight" ...
[23:04:16] <anonimasu> haha
[23:07:23] <anonimasu> im happy
[23:07:28] <anonimasu> I can double my speed/accels
[23:07:33] <anonimasu> of the Z axis
[23:28:45] <bob> other question,
[23:29:30] <bob> joint 0 on limit swith error?
[23:30:15] <bob> exactly being with the set in motion keys or not.
[23:32:12] <bob> hello... :)
[23:34:38] <bob> hello huston... other problem...
[23:36:07] <fenn> bob: copy/paste your .ini to pastebin.ca
[23:36:29] <fenn> oh, limit switch error? hmm.
[23:36:43] <fenn> paste the .hal too :)
[23:36:54] <bob> ok
[23:38:57] <bob> my pastebin is http://www.pastebin.ca/327468
[23:39:13] <bob> :0
[23:39:16] <bob> :)
[23:39:24] <bob> you see?
[23:40:11] <fenn> what is the voltage on parport pin 10?
[23:40:25] <bob> 5 v
[23:40:40] <bob> ?
[23:42:13] <bob> some wrong thing?
[23:42:15] <fenn> x home is on the same pin as all of the limit switches?
[23:42:28] <bob> please one moment
[23:42:37] <cradek> fenn: two parports
[23:42:43] <fenn> oh oops
[23:42:59] <bob> no
[23:44:48] <bob> this file ini is backup
[23:45:32] <bob> on machine x home is pin 13
[23:45:35] <bob> and
[23:45:47] <bob> switch x
[23:45:57] <bob> is 10
[23:46:15] <bob> ok?
[23:47:14] <fenn> bob: what does 'halcmd show sig limit-reached' say?
[23:47:32] <bob> ?
[23:47:46] <fenn> type halcmd show sig limit-reached
[23:47:59] <bob> where?
[23:48:14] <bob> in terminal or axix?
[23:48:16] <fenn> in a terminal
[23:48:35] <fjungclaus__> fjungclaus__ is now known as fjungclaus-away
[23:49:01] <bob> ?
[23:49:36] <fenn> mmmmoooooooof
[23:50:46] <bob> i go make it
[23:50:51] <bob> moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof
[23:53:02] <bob> terminal returns this:
[23:53:44] <bob> bit TRUE limit-reached
[23:53:55] <fenn> aha!
[23:54:14] <bob> ==>axix.0.neg-lin-sw-in
[23:54:28] <bob> ==>axix.0.pos-lin-sw-in
[23:54:41] <bob> ==>axix.2.neg-lin-sw-in
[23:54:49] <bob> ==>axix.2.neg-pos-sw-in
[23:55:08] <fenn> ok i get the idea
[23:55:17] <bob> <==parport.1.pin-10-in-not
[23:55:23] <bob> Ok?
[23:56:15] <fenn> if you press the limit switch, does it close the circuit or break it?
[23:57:03] <jmkasunich> put a halmeter on "limit-reached", and watch it while you manually trip the switch
[23:57:05] <bob> close circuit
[23:57:31] <fenn> ok then you want to change parport.1.pin-10-in-not to parport.1.pin-10-in (in the .hal file)
[23:57:49] <fenn> i think
[23:57:59] <fenn> my brain just died again
[23:58:02] <fenn> * fenn weeps
[23:58:20] <jmkasunich> you want to put a halmeter on the signal, and see if it does the right thing (true when you hit the limit, false if not)
[23:58:38] <jmkasunich> if it is backwards, then change from parport.1.pin-10-in-not to parport.1.pin-10-in
[23:58:52] <jmkasunich> USE the meter, thats why we have it
[23:59:23] <jmkasunich> halmeter and halcommand give you visibility into what is going on - not using that visibility is stupid
[23:59:28] <bob> i not use swhitch, i use a sensor
[23:59:33] <bob> ok?
[23:59:59] <jmkasunich> can you trip the sensor by moving the axis manually? or by waving a piece of steel in front of it?