#emc | Logs for 2007-01-13

[00:03:11] <owhite> could someone help me tie M64 to hal?
[00:05:33] <owhite> okay. could someone help me convert my electric hot water heater to fusion power?
[00:06:14] <alex_joni> yeah, that's easy
[00:07:15] <alex_joni> you need a power transformer which increases the voltage about 20x
[00:07:38] <owhite> *puts in an order to digi-key*
[00:08:14] <alex_joni> owhite: so.. M64
[00:08:26] <owhite> so, suppose I was working with univstep_io.hal
[00:08:41] <owhite> I think I want to control something like ppmc.0.dout.03.out
[00:09:06] <alex_joni> you have 4 IO's available
[00:09:16] <owhite> its flood on, now, but I want to take over that bit and drive it by M64.
[00:09:39] <alex_joni> motion.digital-out-00 , motion.digital-out-01, motion.digital-out-02, motion.digital-out-03
[00:09:52] <owhite> right.
[00:10:07] <alex_joni> those are the 4 pins that come out of motion and respond to M64 P0 P1 P2 P3
[00:10:29] <owhite> linksp motion.digital-out-00=>ppmc.0.dout.03.out
[00:10:33] <owhite> how about that?
[00:10:36] <alex_joni> close enough :)
[00:10:39] <alex_joni> but not quite
[00:10:43] <owhite> *grumble*
[00:10:45] <alex_joni> linksp = link signal to pin
[00:10:53] <alex_joni> you have 2 pins in that command
[00:11:11] <alex_joni> so you either A). use linkpp or B). define a signal first
[00:11:27] <alex_joni> A): linkpp motion.digital-out-00 => ppmc.0.dout.03.out
[00:11:38] <alex_joni> B): newsig oxygen bit
[00:11:47] <alex_joni> linksp oxygen <= motion.digital-out-00
[00:11:53] <owhite> B) looks more human readable.
[00:12:02] <alex_joni> linksp oxygen => ppmc.0.dout.03.out
[00:12:12] <alex_joni> your choice :)
[00:12:28] <owhite> great. let me do some poking. (BASIC joke)
[00:12:44] <alex_joni> ok :)
[00:13:00] <skunkworks> I never got peek and poke
[00:13:19] <owhite> beat the hell out of learning addresses in C. :-)
[00:13:49] <alex_joni> owhite: is it working yet?
[00:14:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni cusses beryl
[00:14:03] <owhite> I am WRITING! :-)
[00:14:12] <owhite> *tap tap tap*
[00:15:14] <owhite> actually I am trying to figure out which SSR I want to control on the USC board.
[00:19:57] <owhite> sometimes I wonder if I change hal if I'll end up with the 400 watt motors driving my table off the end of the ballscrew *starts up machine*
[00:20:00] <owhite> time to find out!
[00:21:40] <owhite> is M62 tied to motion.digital-out-00?
[00:23:04] <alex_joni> no
[00:23:24] <alex_joni> M64 P0 to turn it on, M65 P0 to turn it off
[00:24:05] <owhite> *works in MDI*
[00:24:16] <alex_joni> what? M62 ?
[00:24:18] <alex_joni> or M64 ?
[00:24:36] <owhite> M64
[00:24:41] <alex_joni> good
[00:24:56] <alex_joni> I think M62 and M64 do similar things to the same output :)
[00:25:00] <owhite> doing some halcmd stuff.
[00:25:05] <alex_joni> M62 directly, and M64 synched with motion
[00:25:07] <alex_joni> iirc
[00:26:31] <owhite> oh. what's "synched with motion" mean?
[00:27:26] <alex_joni> M62 might happen at some time before the move starts
[00:27:33] <alex_joni> M64 should happen just before the next move
[00:27:56] <alex_joni> although I implemented the stuff in emc2, I can't remember any details.. let me look
[00:28:19] <alex_joni> right..
[00:31:27] <owhite> crap. I have to take off for a little while.
[00:46:09] <alex_joni> jepler: around?
[00:51:33] <SWPadnos> he's not *that* round
[00:55:12] <alex_joni> darn.. needed someone to help me sort some deb foo
[00:55:45] <SWPadnos> ah. well I know I'm of no use then :)
[00:56:39] <alex_joni> I installed beryl.. or tried to
[00:56:54] <alex_joni> now I ended up with a lot of upgraded packages which break dependecies :((
[00:57:00] <alex_joni> http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org/dists/dapper/main/
[00:57:04] <SWPadnos> bummer
[00:57:22] <alex_joni> need to downgrade manually
[00:57:25] <alex_joni> argh
[00:58:03] <alex_joni> was wondering if there isn't some apt foo to reinstall the latest version from the current repos
[00:58:04] <justin_> justin_ is now known as Twingy
[00:58:12] <tomp> alex_joni: you trying glitz or cairo, maybe svg stuff?
[00:58:14] <SWPadnos> on a slightly related note, there was a program that was supposed to scan the installed packages and create a CD repository with those programs (or something like that)
[00:58:58] <SWPadnos> there's probably a way with some shell script foo and apt-cache foo to get a list of installed packages that aren't the latest repository versions
[01:00:07] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: :/
[01:00:30] <SWPadnos> is beryl not working for you?
[01:00:38] <alex_joni> The following packages will be removed: ubuntu-desktop x-window-system-core
[01:00:43] <alex_joni> no, not really..
[01:00:43] <SWPadnos> urk
[01:00:52] <SWPadnos> bummer. too slow or other issues?
[01:00:56] <alex_joni> AIGLX starts ok
[01:01:07] <alex_joni> when I load beryl-manager it crashes X
[01:01:25] <alex_joni> so I fscked it for now
[01:01:50] <SWPadnos> do you want some of the package revisions for X and stuff?
[01:01:59] <SWPadnos> I can get those on my box if you like
[01:02:02] <alex_joni> right now I'm just trying to get emc2 to compile
[01:02:20] <alex_joni> I installed the magma kernel in the mean time
[01:02:26] <alex_joni> removed the nvidia binary driver
[01:02:39] <alex_joni> and I'm about 90% back restoring stuff :)
[01:02:48] <SWPadnos> ah - ok.
[01:03:22] <alex_joni> http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu
[01:03:28] <alex_joni> I only afterwards read this:
[01:03:35] <alex_joni> Beryl is not supported on Ubuntu Dapper. Please consider upgrading to a newer version of Ubuntu instead.
[01:03:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:03:47] <SWPadnos> I can try it on my edgy install then :)
[01:04:07] <alex_joni> I won't try it again, any time soon
[01:04:11] <SWPadnos> I think I've installed xgl / compiz on edgy, but haven't done whatever I need to do to be able to use it
[01:04:28] <alex_joni> seems feisty has AIGLX in the xorg server
[01:04:37] <alex_joni> by default I mean
[01:04:48] <SWPadnos> interesting
[01:04:50] <alex_joni> yes XGL might have been a better choice
[01:05:04] <SWPadnos> maybe - I couldn't tell you at this point
[01:05:09] <alex_joni> Feisty's X.org 7.2 includes AIGLX, and enabling it is easy.
[01:05:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waits for grumpy groundhog
[01:05:56] <SWPadnos> hellbound horse
[01:06:07] <alex_joni> you just made that up
[01:06:09] <SWPadnos> of course
[01:06:11] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:07:05] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(Linux_distribution) "There are plans for a Ubuntu branch codenamed "Grumpy Groundhog", which has not yet been made available to the public. It is planned to be a permanently unstable development and testing branch, pulling the source directly out of the revision control of the various programs and applications that are shipped as part of Ubuntu"
[01:07:30] <SWPadnos> ooooohhh - Ubuntu HEAD :)
[01:07:37] <alex_joni> hahaha
[01:08:00] <alex_joni> we should enable RTAI packages from CVS magma
[01:08:04] <alex_joni> and emc2 from HEAD
[01:08:09] <SWPadnos> d00d
[01:08:13] <alex_joni> now that would be a system
[01:08:25] <SWPadnos> a s-s-s-system :)
[01:08:27] <alex_joni> now it works.. 5 minutes later .. kernel panic oops
[01:08:40] <alex_joni> I mean the panic oopses :D
[01:08:51] <SWPadnos> oops - now I'm panicking
[01:09:42] <alex_joni> this reminds me..
[01:09:46] <alex_joni> I had this once:
[01:10:11] <alex_joni> "kernel BUG at panic.c:1521"
[01:10:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:10:30] <alex_joni> I still have a picture of the screen on my cell
[01:10:51] <alex_joni> "kernel BUG in header file at line 248"
[01:10:53] <SWPadnos> that's a good one for a blog / archive somewhere
[01:11:32] <alex_joni> maybe one day
[01:12:19] <alex_joni> ok, seems I got all things ./configure needed
[01:13:32] <Rugludallur> These are the top two error messages I have experienced: "Error handling Error" / "Nobody should ever get this error message, if you get this error you are seriously f*cked"
[01:14:52] <alex_joni> my favorite is "you don't exist. go away"
[01:14:57] <Rugludallur> lol
[01:15:28] <alex_joni> http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ops/ibm/cranky37.html
[01:16:25] <alex_joni> "This is not a viral infection. It comes from programs like write, talk, and wall, if your invoking UID doesn't correspond to a valid user (probably due to /etc/passwd being corrupted), or if the session (pseudoterminal, specifically) you're using isn't properly registered in the utmp file (probably because you invoked it in a funny way)."
[01:17:31] <alex_joni> even ssh says the same thing
[01:17:52] <Rugludallur> rofl, that guy has it rough
[01:18:21] <SWPadnos> heh - I Like the idea of giving the store customer service number when they ask you for your phone number
[01:18:29] <alex_joni> yay, HEAD is running
[01:18:33] <SWPadnos> kewl
[01:18:53] <SWPadnos> I really should figure out how to get RTAI/SMP/A64 running on my machine :)
[01:18:56] <alex_joni> I'm slowly getting to the point where I was before my HDD failed :)
[01:19:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:19:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yuck
[01:19:05] <alex_joni> :D
[01:19:17] <alex_joni> hope that's IA64 not A64
[01:19:21] <SWPadnos> I can pick any two, I guess. right now I have SMP/A64 ;)
[01:19:31] <SWPadnos> nope. x86_64 ...
[01:19:36] <alex_joni> how about C64 ?
[01:19:45] <SWPadnos> nah - I'm an Atari man
[01:20:40] <alex_joni> ok.. nuff for today
[01:21:03] <SWPadnos> hasta la bye-bye then :)
[01:21:13] <alex_joni> one minor thing I noticed :)
[01:21:25] <SWPadnos> yes ...
[01:21:33] <alex_joni> trying to fix it now
[01:21:47] <alex_joni> darn.. I know not how
[01:21:58] <alex_joni> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/install/installing_emc2/index.html
[01:22:05] <alex_joni> $ gpg -keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu -recv-key BC92B87F
[01:22:05] <alex_joni> $ gpg -a -export BC92B87F | sudo apt-key add -
[01:22:23] <alex_joni> those should have been --keyserver, --recv-key, --export
[01:22:39] <SWPadnos> in the wiki, or in your paste?
[01:22:54] <alex_joni> in the generated html
[01:23:00] <alex_joni> this is from the manual (lyx)
[01:23:14] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:23:15] <alex_joni> the lyx code is fine.. only the converted html sux
[01:23:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is checking the pdf now
[01:23:50] <alex_joni> pdf is fine.. so it's a problem with latex2html or whatever
[01:23:57] <alex_joni> not gonna try to debug that..
[01:34:15] <Rugludallur> nigh guys
[01:34:36] <alex_joni> night
[01:34:56] <SWPadnos> see you
[01:54:30] <skunkworks> * skunkworks powers up the TI99/4a emulator to play parsec
[01:54:44] <Jymmm> weirdo
[01:54:58] <skunkworks> not that weird
[01:55:02] <cradek> I liked parsec too
[01:55:02] <Jymmm> sorta kinda
[01:55:14] <skunkworks> press redo or back
[01:55:34] <Jymmm> I meant the TI994a part =)
[01:55:57] <Jymmm> Don't make me break out the Coleco on your asses now!
[01:55:57] <skunkworks> was parsec a main-stream game? I only remember it on the TI
[01:56:14] <Jymmm> no pun intended
[01:56:23] <Jymmm> Brakout Atari 2600
[01:56:25] <Jymmm> ^e
[01:56:36] <cradek> it was just TI
[01:56:39] <skunkworks> ok
[01:57:00] <skunkworks> never got into hunt the wampas
[01:57:08] <skunkworks> :)
[01:57:21] <SWPadnos> I never had any games for the 99/4A
[01:57:31] <SWPadnos> unless you count the speech cartridge
[01:57:36] <skunkworks> TI basic was your friend
[01:57:54] <SWPadnos> I have a friend that likes to call himself "Hawkeye" (like in MASH)
[01:58:09] <SWPadnos> I had to work to get the thing to pronounce "Hawkeye is a twit" correctly
[01:58:28] <SWPadnos> it kept saying "Hockey is a tuit"
[01:58:55] <skunkworks> Until I was in highschool - I thougth it said 'its basic' - must have been dyslexic
[01:59:04] <skunkworks> I used say+am
[01:59:08] <skunkworks> sam
[01:59:33] <SWPadnos> I think I ended up with "hockaye is a tewitt" or some such
[01:59:47] <skunkworks> you work with what you got ;)
[01:59:51] <SWPadnos> plus some of the tone modifiers
[01:59:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:00:35] <skunkworks> it had a very limited vocabulary
[02:00:58] <SWPadnos> the vocabulary was unlimited, but getting the pronunciation correct with the chip they used was difficult
[02:00:59] <skunkworks> always wanted the extended basic cartridge
[02:01:01] <cradek> oh it was text to speech?
[02:01:14] <SWPadnos> it could do TTS, but you could also program it in phonemes or possible allophones
[02:01:18] <cradek> my first experience with speech synthesis was a table of phonemes
[02:01:21] <SWPadnos> possibly
[02:01:28] <SWPadnos> Votrax SC-01A
[02:01:42] <SWPadnos> (that was an early speech chip, not the one in the TI, I think)
[02:07:56] <skunkworks> holy crap.. http://cgi.ebay.com/TANDY-POCKET-SCIENTIFIC-COMPUTER-PC-6-RADIO-SHACK_W0QQitemZ200067854578QQihZ010QQcategoryZ11713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:08:08] <skunkworks> I still have mine. still works
[02:08:19] <skunkworks> must be a trip down memory lane
[02:08:55] <skunkworks> it had a whole 8k of memory.. Still filled it up.
[02:09:11] <cradek> cool - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260071752551
[02:09:21] <cradek> I used to use one of those
[02:09:28] <SWPadnos> heh - I was just looking at those ;)
[02:09:37] <SWPadnos> we madea control system for something with that
[02:09:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm - a photo processing machine, I think (can't remember now)
[02:10:34] <skunkworks> neat
[02:11:22] <SWPadnos> so, I think I'll be getting a lathe at the end of the month
[02:11:27] <SWPadnos> that should be fun
[02:12:29] <cradek> cnc?
[02:12:52] <alex_joni> it will be one day
[02:12:52] <alex_joni> :)
[02:12:52] <skunkworks> better be - or atleast converted in the next mont
[02:12:55] <skunkworks> month
[02:12:58] <skunkworks> ;)
[02:13:08] <SWPadnos> actually, it is already controlled by an NC dontroller
[02:13:13] <SWPadnos> controler, that is
[02:13:16] <SWPadnos> no, controller
[02:13:19] <SWPadnos> yeah!
[02:13:25] <cradek> donctolrer?
[02:13:40] <skunkworks> tape?
[02:13:41] <cradek> what swing?
[02:13:44] <SWPadnos> and it's actually being used in an aerospace shop right now
[02:13:53] <SWPadnos> lemme check
[02:14:04] <SWPadnos> it's a Hardinge HNC, with GE controller
[02:14:24] <cradek> ah, a big machine
[02:14:25] <cradek> cool
[02:14:31] <SWPadnos> only 3000 pounds
[02:14:38] <skunkworks> where is this going? I thought cradek had the barn ;)
[02:14:46] <SWPadnos> I may need to build one ;)
[02:14:59] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: use round parts for it
[02:15:06] <SWPadnos> like toroids?
[02:15:39] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, the photos from the eBay listing are gone, and the listing doesn't say much
[02:16:40] <SWPadnos> it does say this though: "Machines in working condition. Always used with oil and still can hold .0002 tolerance."
[02:17:32] <SWPadnos> I went there with a friend (a mech. engineer / machinist), and the machines are just amazingly clean
[02:17:42] <SWPadnos> the tool plate has not one scratch on it
[02:17:54] <SWPadnos> (and I think it comes with a spare)
[02:17:59] <ds3> Mmmmmm hardinge
[02:18:25] <SWPadnos> this is what it looks like: http://cgi.ebay.com/HARDINGE-HNC-CNC-PRODUCTION-LATHE-S-Up-to-seven-avbl_W0QQitemZ200066336883QQihZ010QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:18:59] <alex_joni> nice
[02:19:07] <SWPadnos> this one is at least as clean as the one(s) in that auction, and it's less than 10 miles from me :)
[02:19:14] <SWPadnos> and it's $500
[02:19:18] <alex_joni> wo
[02:19:18] <cradek> holy cow
[02:19:22] <alex_joni> woo
[02:19:26] <SWPadnos> yeah :)
[02:19:35] <SWPadnos> I was happy that they still have one (they started with four)
[02:20:31] <skunkworks> very nice
[02:20:32] <cradek> what's the uSTOR on the bottom?
[02:20:34] <SWPadnos> so it looks like an 11" swing
[02:20:36] <cradek> wow
[02:20:59] <SWPadnos> uSTOR?
[02:21:20] <SWPadnos> ah - the CNC editing thingie
[02:21:46] <SWPadnos> I'd say it's a lot of buttons to use on a retrofit ;)
[02:21:51] <cradek> heh
[02:21:55] <SWPadnos> I don't think the one I'm getting comes with that though
[02:22:05] <cradek> I don't see any tape - how is the program stored?
[02:22:20] <cradek> no position readout either
[02:22:24] <SWPadnos> dunno
[02:22:59] <cradek> no jogwheel...
[02:23:08] <SWPadnos> it looks like the uSTOR has a position readout or something - there's a red 0 under the white painted number
[02:23:34] <cradek> yeah it looks like it's 5x7 LED so it's probably alphanumeric
[02:23:42] <SWPadnos> luckily, I have a jogwheel for just such an occasion
[02:24:37] <SWPadnos> oh now this is funny: http://www.astratool.com/tooling/attlcat.htm
[02:24:41] <cradek> does yours have that tool changer?
[02:24:49] <SWPadnos> they're selling a used tooling plate for $500
[02:24:53] <SWPadnos> yes, plus an extra plate
[02:24:55] <SWPadnos> 8 slot
[02:25:01] <cradek> very nice
[02:25:08] <SWPadnos> also a powered collet puller
[02:25:29] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a barfeed though (not that my garage is big enough for one anyway)
[02:26:03] <SWPadnos> and I can probably get them to hand over an air chuck also, if I want (they have a lot of stuff that they offered to sell with it if I want it)
[02:27:35] <alex_joni> "this machine can had automatic legs conveyour. the legs obtain difficulty when using the hexagon bar, when using the automatic conveyour due to the noisy sound and cause the speed couldn't increase. using the round could cut fast any angle but avoid the hexagon legs deficient."
[02:27:53] <SWPadnos> sounds like the polygon turning video ;)
[02:27:58] <alex_joni> it's from there..
[02:28:23] <alex_joni> it describes why you don't benefit from the barfeed for haxagon bars :D
[02:28:46] <SWPadnos> the barfeed is for to hexagon by rounding with the actuator
[02:28:49] <cradek> "describes"
[02:28:59] <SWPadnos> (I made that up)
[02:29:02] <alex_joni> cradek: if you read between the lines
[02:29:13] <alex_joni> good night guys
[02:29:15] <alex_joni> getting late here
[02:29:17] <SWPadnos> I always like to avoid those hexagon legs deficient
[02:29:18] <cradek> goodnight
[02:29:24] <SWPadnos> good morning Alex ;)
[02:29:30] <jmkasunich> goodnight alex
[02:29:41] <alex_joni> it's all good
[02:29:42] <SWPadnos> good evening jmk
[02:30:19] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:48:29] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: backport 'unobtainable step rate' error message
[02:48:48] <cradek> yay
[02:49:17] <SWPadnos> it shuold say "I'm sorry, I'm afraid HAL can't do that" ;)
[02:51:14] <cradek> very funny
[02:51:32] <SWPadnos> thank you thank you. I've been here all week
[02:58:19] <skunkworks> you have been waiting to say that I bet.
[02:58:39] <SWPadnos> err - no, no. not at all
[02:58:43] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:03:21] <SWPadnos> I strongly suspect that I should not have eaten that Snickers bar
[03:16:56] <cradek> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2545377385698242701&q=robot
[03:18:28] <SWPadnos> that looks fun :)
[03:18:34] <SWPadnos> except for the concrete floor
[03:19:23] <jmkasunich> that looks insane
[03:19:34] <jmkasunich> someone really really trusts that robot and its programmers
[03:19:44] <SWPadnos> and the concrete floor ...
[03:20:26] <jmkasunich> I cringed when the guy was upside down and his head was about a foot from the concrete - a typo, and his head is rammed into the concrete
[03:20:42] <SWPadnos> yep. that was my concern as well
[03:21:02] <SWPadnos> plus the couple of spots where his head was swinging close to the main pedestal
[03:23:18] <jmkasunich> something screwy....
[03:23:32] <jmkasunich> this is supposed to compare the 2.1 version and the head version:
[03:23:33] <jmkasunich> cvs diff -u -rv2_1_branch -rHEAD src/hal/utils/halcmd.c
[03:23:33] <jmkasunich> \
[03:23:43] <jmkasunich> ignore the \, typo
[03:23:48] <jmkasunich> it reports no differences
[03:23:52] <jmkasunich> yet there are differences
[03:24:12] <jmkasunich> (I have both versions checked out, and I can diff them with normal (non-CVS) diff
[03:24:27] <jmkasunich> about 340 lines of difference
[03:24:26] <SWPadnos> is the "-u" option supported in cvs diff?
[03:24:45] <jmkasunich> yeah, use it all the time, when I'm comparing my working copy with the repo
[03:25:04] <jmkasunich> two -r options is supposed to ignore the working copy and compare the versions in cvs
[03:25:15] <jmkasunich> I suspect thats not what its doing
[03:26:48] <SWPadnos> try it in both dirs, to see if the results change
[03:26:58] <SWPadnos> (both checkouts)
[03:28:44] <jmkasunich> it looks like it worked when I did it in the head checkout
[03:29:31] <SWPadnos> weird
[03:29:45] <SWPadnos> so it's only taking the first -r, it seems
[03:29:57] <jmkasunich> the man page specifically say:
[03:29:59] <jmkasunich> With two -r options those two
[03:29:59] <jmkasunich> revisions will be compared (and your working file will not affect the
[03:29:59] <jmkasunich> outcome in any way).
[03:30:03] <jmkasunich> liars
[03:40:00] <ejholmgren> oh the pain
[03:40:16] <ejholmgren> cat was draped around my neck when the new puppy ran in
[03:40:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:40:25] <SWPadnos> bleeding stopped yet?
[03:40:28] <ejholmgren> and it still has all of its claws
[03:41:24] <ejholmgren> the puppy tried to climb up onto the bed (over my face) this morning and made a huge Z shaped scratch on my forehead
[03:41:41] <ejholmgren> I had to tell everyone at work that I lost a fight to Zorro at the bar
[03:41:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:54:38] <skunkworks> If I was on that robot - I would want a full cage.
[03:55:13] <jmkasunich> I would want a barf bag
[03:55:25] <skunkworks> I love roller-coasters.
[03:55:38] <jmkasunich> coasters are fine
[03:55:54] <jmkasunich> I don't mind up and down and sideways, but I don't like spinning
[03:56:04] <jmkasunich> or, it don't like me
[03:56:22] <skunkworks> :)
[04:42:47] <tomp> i looked up what 1g acceleration meant... and the wikipedia talked about roller coasters, there's one in Edmunton that uses pneumatics to acclerate a drop to over 5G ( i thought that sounded deadly )
[04:42:51] <tomp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindbender_%28Galaxyland%29
[05:05:11] <cradek> jmkasunich: did you ever figure out cvs diff? either it doesn't work right, or I don't know how to use it
[05:07:35] <jmkasunich> same here
[05:07:39] <jmkasunich> I gave up
[05:07:46] <cradek> well now I'm getting a diff
[05:07:46] <cradek> wtf
[05:08:12] <jmkasunich> the results seem to depend on what dir you are in, even tho the man page says it doesn't matter
[05:08:18] <cradek> yes
[05:08:34] <cradek> I've noticed before that -rHEAD and -rBASE just don't work
[05:10:13] <cradek> I thought it was fixed recently
[05:10:18] <cradek> (well recently in the geological sense)
[05:10:48] <cradek> maybe I'll just use regular diff on two checkouts for that kind of thing
[05:11:05] <cradek> cvs diff with one -r (against working version) has always worked
[05:15:20] <cradek> `HEAD' refers to the most recent version available in the repository
[05:15:27] <cradek> ok, dammit
[05:15:43] <cradek> when I read what this says, not what I want it to say, the behavior might be right
[05:16:09] <cradek> (stupid, but right)
[05:18:27] <cradek> I think to get the head we want we can use -r1
[05:23:30] <jmkasunich> how it get to be midnight already?
[05:23:33] <cradek> cvs diff -rv2_1_branch -r1 2>&1 |less
[05:23:38] <cradek> yes I think this works
[05:32:22] <jmkasunich> do you have to be in any particular checkout to make it work?
[05:32:33] <jmkasunich> (2.1 or head)
[05:32:48] <cradek> "HEAD" refers to the latest revision on the current branch in theRepository. The current branch is either the main line of development, or a branch in development created by placing a branch tag on a set of files and checking out that branch.
[05:33:02] <SWPadnos> you can probably tell by reversing the order of the -r options
[05:33:09] <jmkasunich> so we've been misusing the term head all along
[05:33:20] <jmkasunich> because every branch has a head
[05:33:22] <cradek> I think this means if you are in a checkout with sticky tags (like you get when you cvs up or co -rv2_1_branch) that means HEAD is on the branch
[05:33:51] <cradek> the RCS Main Branch is called "the trunk"
[05:34:12] <cradek> yes we're using the HEAD term wrong, and so does the rest of the world, I think
[05:35:30] <cradek> and a lot of documentation is VERY fuzzy, like the thing I pasted above ("the most recent version available in the repostory") which is just plain wrong
[05:36:41] <jmkasunich> hmm - when anders changed siggen params to pins (so he could control it with pyvcp) he commented out the param code
[05:36:50] <jmkasunich> I'm tempted to remove it completely, then backport
[05:37:07] <SWPadnos> only if the halcmd setp extension is also backported ...
[05:37:26] <jmkasunich> I believe its already in 2.1
[05:37:30] <jmkasunich> but I'll check
[05:37:35] <SWPadnos> ah - port not too far back :)
[05:39:28] <cradek> if I have the diff right, the difference between the two HEADS is just `net'
[05:39:32] <jmkasunich> yeah, its there
[05:39:49] <jmkasunich> "just" net = 300+ lines
[05:40:13] <jmkasunich> (I've been somewhat carefully inspecting the code I backport, hard to do that with a big diff
[05:40:29] <cradek> yes
[05:40:49] <SWPadnos> I'd be in favor of backporting "net"
[05:41:17] <jmkasunich> ok, I'll bite the bullet and do it
[05:41:49] <cradek> I think net is a huge usability improvement
[05:41:53] <jmkasunich> if we have net in 2.1, maybe we can deprecate linkpp in 2.2
[05:42:03] <SWPadnos> makes sense to me
[05:42:06] <jmkasunich> I hate linkpp, because it gives a bad name to the signal it creates
[05:42:08] <cradek> that would be nice
[05:44:11] <SWPadnos> I guess that features that don't change the behavior of the interpreter or the TP (or NML ...) should be backported in most cases (even though there's a feature freeze)
[05:44:20] <SWPadnos> I guess that means GUI improvements and HAL stuff
[05:44:38] <cradek> I'm not sure I think that's the criteria
[05:44:52] <SWPadnos> I think it should be more lax for the "peripheral" areas, I guess
[05:44:56] <cradek> however I can't say exactly what it is either
[05:45:09] <jmkasunich> hmm, a lot of unused code in siggen
[05:45:16] <cradek> some (new) things we're sure won't break anything (else)
[05:45:21] <cradek> like new drivers
[05:45:26] <SWPadnos> right
[05:45:34] <SWPadnos> or new commands in halcmd, for the most part
[05:45:47] <cradek> yes
[05:46:55] <jmkasunich> we must have solved the math library problem at least for the distros we care about
[05:47:13] <cradek> yeah I haven't heard of a problem lately
[05:47:19] <jmkasunich> because my homebrew sin() inside siggen has been #if zero'ed out for a long time
[05:47:26] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna remove that code
[05:47:44] <cradek> now is not the time to cleanup code on the branch
[05:47:58] <jmkasunich> not even something that is inside an #if zero block?
[05:48:41] <cradek> umm I dunno
[05:48:46] <jmkasunich> and has been for a long time - it has one of paul's auto-gripes on it
[05:49:06] <cradek> not long ago someone "cleaned up" an //#if 0 block and broke stuff
[05:49:10] <SWPadnos> I'm all for auto-gripe removal ;)
[05:49:16] <jmkasunich> well over a year ago he sent a script thru the code adding /*! \todo Another #if 0 */ to every if 0
[05:52:27] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/siggen.c: removed unused code, some left over from param to pin conversion, some ancient
[05:52:52] <jmkasunich> I'll backport _after_ the farm compiles it on all systems ;-)
[05:57:41] <jmkasunich> fading fast - I'll do the siggen backport, and the "net" inspection/testing and backport, tomorrow
[05:57:49] <jmkasunich> goodnight guys
[05:57:50] <cradek> goodnight
[06:02:14] <SWPadnos> seeyou
[06:02:27] <SWPadnos> err - hmm. maybe that's my cue also
[06:02:32] <cradek> heh
[06:17:16] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: backport AXIS home-all and pyvcp support
[06:17:16] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: backport AXIS home-all and pyvcp support
[06:18:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: backport cut/paste error fix
[06:54:15] <A-L-P-H-A> man... I shaved today, at 4:30pm... and I have growth again, at 2am... I hate shaving.
[06:54:29] <A-L-P-H-A> so glad I have whiskers... and can get away with not shaving for a little while.
[07:38:51] <K`zan> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1912-Antique-Vintage-1-4th-Scale-Working-Collector-Car_W0QQitemZ270077056217QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6235QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[07:39:01] <K`zan> Check it out, wow!
[10:51:25] <lerneaen_hydra> 'morning all
[10:58:57] <Bo^Dick> mornin'
[11:42:18] <alex_joni> morning all
[11:42:30] <alex_joni> this is "fun" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7278899013907810847&q=robocoaster
[11:51:54] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, kuka!
[11:52:39] <lerneaen_hydra> a friend of mine is the son of the CEO of kuka sweden
[11:54:51] <alex_joni> nice
[11:55:23] <lerneaen_hydra> what's with always adding corny music to videos like that
[11:57:10] <alex_joni> lol.. no idea
[12:05:29] <Rugludallur> morning
[12:05:36] <alex_joni> morning Rugludallur
[12:36:01] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_servo.comp pluto_servo_rbf.h rbf2h.py Submakefile): backport pluto driver
[12:36:07] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (8 files): backport pluto driver
[12:45:39] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/ (emc.tbl emc.var lathe-pluto.hal lathe-pluto.ini): backport lathe-pluto config
[12:45:45] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/Makefile: backport lathe-pluto config
[12:54:19] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/.cvsignore: ignore generated file
[12:55:18] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/.cvsignore: ignore generated file
[12:55:54] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/.cvsignore: ignore generated file
[12:57:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/.cvsignore: ignore generated file
[13:04:28] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: so, just dont shave
[13:23:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:37] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:37] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20_io.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[13:23:51] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-halvcp.hal: remove references to motion.spindle-incr-speed and decr-speed, these are deprecated
[14:31:28] <jepler> you guys have been busy!
[14:31:31] <jepler> * jepler looks back at the commits
[14:49:40] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: when you code pluto-p driver modules, do you do that in something windowsbased?
[14:54:07] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes
[14:54:28] <lerneaen_hydra> ack. running in some vm-ware like virtualised environment?
[14:54:29] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: I use the free version of quartus II in a windows xp running in vmware on my ubuntu laptop
[14:54:37] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[14:54:59] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: I had the XP license and the fpga software is no cost, so it's only inconvenient
[14:55:26] <jepler> (there's a no-cost version of vmware too)
[14:55:28] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, it's kind of sucky to be limited to windows though
[14:55:46] <jepler> they sell a version that runs on linux
[14:55:52] <jepler> but I think it's thousands of dollars -- I haven't actually checked
[14:56:18] <lerneaen_hydra> O.o , so they give away the windows version and sell the same program for linux for lots of money?
[14:56:26] <lerneaen_hydra> shouldn't that be the other way around? ;)
[14:56:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: we bundle yapps, remove it from requirements list
[14:56:43] <jepler> they sell a version for both linux and windows
[14:56:50] <jepler> they give away a free one for windows only
[14:57:03] <jepler> as far as I can tell
[14:59:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: feature backport from HEAD: the "debug level" dialog
[14:59:20] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/debuglevel.py: feature backport from HEAD: the "debug level" dialog
[14:59:52] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: oh, a free crippleware version?
[15:00:49] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: exactly
[15:00:56] <lerneaen_hydra> nasty
[15:01:21] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: it seems to be adequate, but advanced features are disabled...
[15:01:41] <lerneaen_hydra> what's advanced? stuff that isn't needed for EMC stuff?
[15:01:58] <jepler> what I've noticed so far is some stuff to do with debugging and with estimation of device power consumption
[15:02:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nothing very important then
[15:02:22] <jepler> I think maybe not all devices are supported either -- they have many products, all programmable from their devel environment
[15:02:24] <lerneaen_hydra> well, debugging maybe
[15:02:29] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[15:05:00] <jepler> I am sure their website gives a list of the differences if you are really interested in the details
[15:11:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/rtapi_print.3rtapi: allow error messages from realtime
[15:11:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/motion.c: allow error messages from realtime
[15:11:24] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtai_rtapi.c rtapi.h rtl_rtapi.c sim_common.h): allow error messages from realtime
[15:11:40] <jepler> breakfast time! bbl
[16:25:18] <SWPadnos> hi Ray
[16:25:35] <rayh> Hi Steven
[16:25:58] <SWPadnos> hey - is this the mini-ITX board you have? http://www.mini-box.com/Hybrid-C7-1G?sc=8&category=99
[16:26:07] <rayh> You get that presentation and meeting successfully behind you.
[16:26:18] <SWPadnos> behind me at least :)
[16:26:19] <rayh> this is Athalon64
[16:26:33] <rayh> I can switch if you want some testing.
[16:26:47] <SWPadnos> no - just wondering if it's the same board
[16:27:52] <SWPadnos> I'll be getting a (very clean anf perfectly functional) HNC + GE control in a month or so, and might want to put one of these boards in it when I retrofit
[16:28:27] <ray1> This is the via board.
[16:28:35] <SWPadnos> hi rahy-via :)
[16:28:40] <SWPadnos> rayh, that was
[16:29:02] <ray1> ray1 is now known as rayh-via
[16:29:07] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:29:08] <rayh-via> There we go
[16:29:15] <SWPadnos> you were saying that the max latency was ~12000?
[16:29:19] <rayh-via> gaim works
[16:29:32] <rayh-via> or I've got gaim!
[16:29:39] <SWPadnos> you got gaim!
[16:29:49] <rayh-via> Right. That was a semperon
[16:30:01] <SWPadnos> (you can't put in the 've - that would be correct phraseology)
[16:30:18] <SWPadnos> ok, I thought it was the ITX board
[16:30:39] <rayh-via> Let me run it here and see what comes back.
[16:31:50] <rayh-via> RTD| -1399| -1399| -125| 7519| 7519| 0
[16:31:51] <rayh-via> RTD| -1398| -1399| -156| 6896| 7519| 0
[16:32:20] <SWPadnos> is that with you messing with windows, launching programs, and running glxgears? :)
[16:32:42] <rayh-via> Looks like latency is better on the via 1gig than the semperon
[16:32:50] <SWPadnos> that's not a huge surprise
[16:32:54] <rayh-via> Na just running about four windows.
[16:33:09] <rayh-via> full of stuff including gaim.
[16:34:09] <SWPadnos> "full of stuff" and "doing stuff" are diferent
[16:34:18] <rayh-via> This does have the mesa card installed.
[16:34:36] <SWPadnos> yep - I thought I remembered that (though one never knows)
[16:34:41] <rayh-via> but I think the wiki cautions that you can't run both emc and the latency test.
[16:34:54] <SWPadnos> no, probably not
[16:35:12] <SWPadnos> the idea is to stress the graphic subsystem while the latency test is running
[16:35:20] <rayh-via> Right.
[16:36:09] <rayh> that was fun
[16:36:15] <skunkworks> you can't run both at once. tried it.
[16:36:25] <rayh> glxgears on top of the other stuff.
[16:36:28] <rayh> then the latency test
[16:36:33] <rayh> not EMC
[16:36:39] <SWPadnos> right. and drag things around too
[16:38:44] <rayh-mini> rayh-mini is now known as rayh-itx
[16:40:45] <SWPadnos> hi rayh-not-as-big-as-a-regular-machine
[16:40:48] <rayh-itx> ah latency test is still running after the logout and login
[16:41:11] <rayh-itx> brunch bbiab
[16:41:32] <SWPadnos> see you
[16:53:55] <awallin> hi all, what's up?
[16:56:04] <rayh-itx> I was playing with latency tests.
[16:57:25] <awallin> on an itx board? what processor does it have? passively cooled?
[16:58:11] <rayh-itx> Small fan 1gig Ester
[16:58:37] <rayh-itx> model name : VIA Esther processor 1000MHz
[16:59:00] <awallin> is it any good for RT?
[16:59:31] <rayh-itx> Not to bad. The numbers turn out about the same as a much faster semperon here.
[17:00:16] <rayh-itx> I wasn't able to get base_period much below 15000 without the display slowing down.
[17:06:33] <awallin> I'm off to make some front panels for 19" rack enclosures... will house the new servo amps etc. for controlling the mill... bbl
[17:06:47] <rayh-itx> good luck
[17:26:21] <skunkworks> remember the cyrix proccessor
[17:26:37] <SWPadnos> which one?
[17:26:49] <skunkworks> it would have been a 486 class iirc
[17:27:03] <skunkworks> I think I still have one in the shop
[17:29:25] <skunkworks> we had a cyrix math co-proccessor in our 386-20
[17:29:26] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrix
[17:30:51] <skunkworks> neat
[18:02:00] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/siggen.c: backport siggen param to pin change
[19:32:01] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/rtapi_print.3rtapi: markup fix
[19:32:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/rtapi_print.3rtapi: merge rev 1.3: markup fix
[19:38:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/counter.c: merge rev 1.11: add velocity output
[19:39:36] <awallin> now I'm done with the enclosures for today: http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/01/enclosure-for-servo-electronics/ I need the transformer and the other psu parts to continue. Hopefully I'll have them by next weekend.
[19:44:06] <jepler> I wish there was a little more english information on the 130V 14A servo amp on this page: http://www.diy600.net/
[19:44:57] <jepler> though I can read the name of the chip it's based on, I suppose I'll have a look at that datasheet instead
[19:44:58] <awallin> it's the UHU controller, developed in germany I think, there should be plenty of info around... try searching on cnczone
[19:45:12] <SWPadnos> what, "UHU-servo controller for spindle motor, 130V 14A." isn't enough for you? ;)
[19:45:24] <awallin> the logic stuff is done on a PIC I think
[19:45:41] <awallin> http://www.uhu-servo.de/
[19:46:01] <SWPadnos> ha! it's an AVR
[19:46:24] <awallin> oh, ok.
[19:46:55] <awallin> I think they sell kits, with the pre-programmed microcontroller included
[19:47:34] <awallin> but it's a step/dir controller, real emc:ers close the loop with emc!
[19:47:56] <SWPadnos> I guess the thing to do would be to get one with the uC, and scope the output to the analog section
[19:48:01] <SWPadnos> then make a 5i20 config to do that :)
[19:48:46] <anonimasu> hello
[19:48:47] <awallin> probably not worth the trouble. I don't think the digital control side is that hard, it's the analog power electronics that's a "black-art"
[19:48:52] <awallin> hi anonimasu
[19:48:58] <SWPadnos> hi anon
[19:49:08] <anonimasu> what's up?
[19:49:12] <awallin> jepler: so do you want a translation of what Sauli wrote on the DIY600 page
[19:49:16] <SWPadnos> right - that's why you'd use the black art part, and skip the uC with the Mesa card
[19:49:32] <SWPadnos> so you can use PWM instead of step/dir
[19:49:37] <SWPadnos> and close the loop in EMC
[19:50:18] <jmkasunich> rayh: you around?
[19:50:26] <awallin> SWP: yep. are you looking for a power stage right now?
[19:50:31] <jmkasunich> got a NEC question ;-)
[19:50:31] <jepler> awallin: thanks for offering, but it's not necessary
[19:50:39] <SWPadnos> "looking" may be too strong a word :)
[19:50:55] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:51:11] <anonimasu> now if skunkworks would finish he's H bridge
[19:51:12] <anonimasu> :
[19:51:17] <anonimasu> skunkworks *poke*
[19:51:23] <jepler> it's the power stage that interests me too, but not out of a real need
[19:51:23] <SWPadnos> though I could probably use one that's a bit more beefy than the Mesa driver
[19:51:43] <SWPadnos> and a bit less (for one application) than skunkworks thing
[19:51:49] <jmkasunich> I should do a GPL'ed H bridge design one of these days
[19:51:53] <SWPadnos> yay!
[19:52:01] <jmkasunich> "one of these days"
[19:52:02] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: yes!
[19:52:04] <SWPadnos> I mean. sure. maybe Fest would be a good time to work on one :)
[19:52:14] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: would you make it scale:able?
[19:52:20] <SWPadnos> scopes, people, motors, machines, MEsa cards. it's all good
[19:52:24] <anonimasu> or make it possible to drive big motors and stufF?
[19:52:24] <anonimasu> :D
[19:52:33] <jmkasunich> anonimasu: probably
[19:52:53] <jmkasunich> the problem is that scalable = too expensive for the low end
[19:53:03] <anonimasu> yeah :/
[19:53:14] <fenn> hello everyone
[19:53:20] <SWPadnos> plus the boards are bigger due to trace/space widths, etc.
[19:53:32] <jmkasunich> but it would be interesting to sit down and think about/write down all the tradeoffs and see what comes out of it
[19:53:32] <awallin> If I would find a big DC servo that would do about 6000rpm, maybe around 1kW, I would be pretty motivated to put together such a powerstage. I'd use the motor as a spindle
[19:53:32] <SWPadnos> hi Fenn
[19:53:46] <anonimasu> awallin: how's your budget?
[19:53:54] <ds3> did someone say EMC can close the loop? does that mean EMC can make use of a stepper with an encoder?
[19:54:15] <SWPadnos> ds3: sort of
[19:54:16] <awallin> ds3: yes, but not many people are doing that
[19:54:21] <jmkasunich> guess ray isn't around...
[19:54:21] <jepler> ds3: generally, servos with encoders
[19:54:46] <ds3> is there a write up on doing this? (got a good deal on a pair of steppers with US Digital encoders on there)
[19:54:48] <awallin> anonimasu: I could pay 3-400eur for such a servo, with an encoder
[19:54:48] <jmkasunich> does anyone know if the US electrical code requires GFI on _all_ kitchen outlets, or just those within X feet of a sink?
[19:55:01] <jmkasunich> (I'm installing one above the counter on the other side of the room)
[19:55:06] <ds3> jmkasunich: all I think
[19:55:06] <SWPadnos> you can monitor the poisitioning of the machine with a stepper/encoder setup, but I'm not sure you could tune a PID to help the stepper "catch up"
[19:55:17] <ds3> except for fridges and other permanent appliances
[19:55:30] <SWPadnos> I think they all have to be GFI protected, but they don't all have to be GFIs
[19:55:30] <jmkasunich> ok, thanks
[19:55:46] <ds3> SWPandnos: can it fault if it misses X number of steps?
[19:56:02] <SWPadnos> that's counters though, any "normal" wall outlets don't have to be afaik
[19:56:04] <anonimasu> www.aratron.se
[19:56:06] <anonimasu> check them out..
[19:56:07] <SWPadnos> ds3, yes, absolutely
[19:56:09] <anonimasu> they are not cheap.
[19:56:13] <awallin> ds3: sure, the following error would be adjustable
[19:56:41] <ds3> Hmmmm
[19:56:49] <anonimasu> http://www.aratron.se/pub/1541/DC-motorer_SeriePENTA.pdf
[19:56:50] <SWPadnos> you can possibly even do some slowing of the machine if a stepper gets behind, but that's a bit more complex
[19:57:20] <anonimasu> they just go to 3krpm..
[19:57:20] <anonimasu> :/
[19:57:27] <anonimasu> but they are servos..
[19:57:32] <jepler> ds3: instead of hooking axis.0.motor-pos-fb to stepgen.0.position-fb, you would hook it to the position from your encoder
[19:57:32] <awallin> anonimasu: well, 400eur converted to your 1800-century currency would be maybe 3000-3500sek
[19:57:33] <anonimasu> I think..
[19:57:44] <jepler> ds3: once you've done that, a stalled stepper will quickly cause a following error
[19:57:52] <anonimasu> awallin: the 1.0kw continous was 700eur..
[19:57:55] <anonimasu> around that
[19:58:38] <SWPadnos> ds3, or you can possibly stick a PID on the following errors of the stepper motors, and send that input to the Adaptive Feed OVerride input, to slow down motion when the steppers are overloaded
[19:58:39] <awallin> anonimasu: ok, that was what I thought. so I probably need to find one second hand...
[19:59:35] <anonimasu> brushless dc motors?
[19:59:40] <anonimasu> how do you drive thoose?
[19:59:56] <jepler> beyond merely getting a following error when a stepper stalls, nobody seems to have a clear idea what to do with step+direction outputs and position feedback
[19:59:58] <SWPadnos> like a stepper or a 3-phase AC motor, for the most part
[19:59:58] <anonimasu> ah. steppers..
[20:00:01] <ds3> SWPandnos: that is likely to do more damage; the problem I had before was trying to do a pattern of dots and loosing one of them really messed things up so stopping is best
[20:00:03] <awallin> anonimasu: hall signals usually tell you where the rotor is
[20:00:44] <awallin> I tried making an AC servodrive, but it's a bit complicated, so I sold my AC servos
[20:00:58] <awallin> I might be successful with a H-bridge powerstage though ;)
[20:01:00] <SWPadnos> ds3, sure. monitoring and stopping is very easy with EMC. correcting for it is also possible, but as jepler said, it's unclear what the "correct" action is when a stepper starts lagging behind
[20:01:10] <anonimasu> awallin: hehe..
[20:01:22] <anonimasu> awallin: I wish I undersood enough to build a AC servodrive..
[20:01:54] <SWPadnos> heh - look familiar? http://www.oesincorp.com/servo_driver.htm
[20:01:58] <ds3> *nod* I can see correcting would be useful if you are doing actual cuts instead of pecking
[20:02:30] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: nope.
[20:02:39] <SWPadnos> ever seen a Geckodrive?
[20:02:46] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I were just kidding
[20:02:49] <awallin> SWP: I wonder if it's sold by gecko, or if it's a copy
[20:02:50] <SWPadnos> (like the G320 that's in one of the images in the page)
[20:03:02] <SWPadnos> dunno - I'd hope it's an OEM
[20:03:11] <SWPadnos> maybe I'll email Mariss about it
[20:03:29] <anonimasu> dosent the motor max current sound high?
[20:03:36] <SWPadnos> which?
[20:03:38] <anonimasu> 20A
[20:03:48] <anonimasu> or is that the new spec
[20:03:49] <SWPadnos> that's not so high for brush DC motors
[20:03:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:04:02] <SWPadnos> for a stepper drive, that would be high
[20:04:08] <anonimasu> ah.. it's the same for the 320 also..
[20:04:08] <ejholmgren> O_o
[20:04:15] <anonimasu> I thought it was lower..
[20:04:26] <SWPadnos> nope. the servo drives have always been 20A
[20:04:31] <anonimasu> neat..
[20:05:14] <anonimasu> I just wish they would build a brusless drive :
[20:05:15] <anonimasu> :)
[20:05:34] <SWPadnos> I think Mariss is working on it, but it's third in line (or thereabouts) for him to work on it
[20:05:54] <anonimasu> third in line?
[20:06:17] <SWPadnos> I believe his list is (1) the unstallable stepper thing, (2) a CPLD version of the G320, and (3-ish) a BLDC / 3-phase AC drive
[20:06:35] <SWPadnos> unless something else comes up first :)
[20:06:44] <awallin> is the grex already working with mach3 ?
[20:06:53] <SWPadnos> mostly, but that's not his problem
[20:06:58] <SWPadnos> that's on Art and Steve Hardy
[20:07:50] <anonimasu> my geckos is shipping
[20:08:03] <anonimasu> yay
[20:10:05] <jepler> anonimasu: yay
[20:10:35] <anonimasu> ´:)
[20:11:00] <anonimasu> started to build the frame for the plamsa machine today
[20:11:04] <awallin> jepler: I see stuff about 2.1 on the wiki, is there a set timetable?
[20:11:20] <jepler> awallin: "when it's ready"
[20:11:23] <anonimasu> going to weld the supports tomorrow :)
[20:11:57] <jepler> awallin: the v2_1_branch was created some time ago and the plan had been to add no additional features there (only fix bugs)
[20:12:33] <awallin> ok
[20:12:39] <jepler> awallin: but some of this recent stuff (hal_pluto, pyvcp) are so important that the board decided they should be backported to the 2.1 tree -- I think you've been involved in this discussion as well
[20:12:59] <jepler> awallin: since if we keep up the current pace, 2.2 will take another year
[20:13:08] <awallin> jepler: a bit...
[20:13:28] <awallin> I think pyvcp would need about a month to stabilize
[20:13:48] <awallin> otherwise it'll be more work to backport changes if an unfinished pyvcp is released with 2.1
[20:14:19] <SWPadnos> I think vcp was marked as deprecated in the manual, slated for removal in the 2.2/2.3 timeframe
[20:14:29] <jepler> awallin: one goal I personally would set is to have emc 2.1.0 released by the time of "cnc workshop" (a yearly US meeting of cnc people) which I think is in June this year
[20:14:39] <SWPadnos> so I think pyvcp should be there (if it isn't already)
[20:14:58] <anonimasu> Hm, I dropped a "I hope you will develop AC servodrives sometime in the future." in my mail to them :)
[20:14:58] <awallin> jepler: June sounds fine.
[20:15:06] <anonimasu> nice people to deal with
[20:15:50] <anonimasu> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=004497;p=0
[20:15:54] <jepler> awallin: if we do it like emc2.0.0, then before 2.1.0 there will be a series of "testing" releases, starting as soon as we're confident the branch is in good shape
[20:15:54] <anonimasu> gah
[20:16:07] <anonimasu> EMC, say no more.
[20:16:07] <anonimasu> To get EMC running correctly on Linux you need an arse shaped like a penguin.
[20:16:31] <anonimasu> gotta love all very educated answers.
[20:16:41] <awallin> anonimasu: the problem might be that there are a _lot_ of different brushless motors out there. trapezoidal vs sinusoidal commutation. number of poles, commutation based on hall+encoder or only encoder etc etc
[20:16:48] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:16:58] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:17:02] <anonimasu> awallin: probably
[20:17:26] <anonimasu> awallin: trap/sinusoidal dosent matter does it?
[20:17:40] <anonimasu> awallin: dosent the drives use either thing?
[20:17:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu wonders how rutex is for brushless
[20:17:58] <jepler> anonimasu: fwiw that "advice" about the velocity of Z vs other axes needing to match *is* true for emc1, but not for emc2
[20:18:07] <awallin> anonimasu: trapezoidal commutation is what I think is called brushless DC
[20:18:19] <anonimasu> jepler: I cant remember that when I ran emc1
[20:18:25] <awallin> sinusoidal would be called brushless AC (permanent-magnet AC), synchronous AC
[20:18:48] <anonimasu> awallin: yeah..
[20:19:25] <anonimasu> I get it :)
[20:19:35] <anonimasu> jepler: though I never ran that much emc1
[20:19:46] <jepler> anonimasu: If cradek were here he could fill you in on all the details
[20:19:58] <anonimasu> jepler: I kind of got scared when my table took off during cutting..
[20:20:00] <anonimasu> for some weird reason..
[20:20:16] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:20:24] <fenn> awallin: i think brushless is trapezoidal and synchronous is sinusoidal
[20:21:05] <awallin> fenn: yes, but sometimes synchronous AC motors are called simply brushless...
[20:21:18] <jepler> anonimasu: in emc2, the max accel and max vel for a move are computed taking into account the projection of the move into each axis, and that axis's maximums. in emc1, the calculation was much more simplistic, and I think that a 5:1 velocity difference was one of the things that regularly triggered behavior like stalled steppers
[20:21:41] <jepler> anonimasu: or left you unable to use the velocity and acceleration that one axis was capable of
[20:21:52] <anonimasu> jepler: ah that one I've seen..
[20:22:06] <awallin> I'll be back in maybe 30-40 min. bye.
[20:22:13] <anonimasu> laters awallin
[20:23:43] <jepler> * jepler wanders off too
[20:24:57] <alex_joni> hi guys
[20:25:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just got home
[20:25:18] <anonimasu> alex_joni: work?
[20:37:31] <jepler> lol http://www.toolsforwellness.com/83065.html
[20:37:54] <alex_joni> anonimasu: no, was out
[20:37:59] <alex_joni> bought a new dvd writer :P
[20:38:46] <alex_joni> http://www.pinetree.net/humor/threewishes.html
[20:38:46] <SWPadnos> wow - only $599!
[20:38:58] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:39:02] <anonimasu> alex_joni: nice
[20:40:10] <alex_joni> jepler: is this "orgone" the same as our blog software?
[20:40:23] <alex_joni> they say others call it "aether" :P
[20:40:33] <SWPadnos> "your money will be in your bank account, orgone" :)
[20:42:00] <SWPadnos> http://www.toolsforwellness.com/ww100.html
[20:43:08] <alex_joni> "In Willard Water when the catalyst micelle is added to the regular water it alters the molecular structure of the water. " ROFL
[20:43:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I dare you sell one to your mother :D
[20:43:30] <SWPadnos> I dare me to not bother :)
[20:43:47] <SWPadnos> I wonder if her sracastic mind or her chemical mind would hit me first?
[20:44:17] <alex_joni> I wonder what would hurt more :D
[20:46:52] <owad> Hello. I have a milling machine with servo drives that support torque, velocity, or voltage feedback inputs (but no simple step/dir). Can anybody tell me if I'd be able to use those drives with EMC?
[20:47:17] <SWPadnos> most probably yes
[20:47:38] <SWPadnos> I only say probably since they may need 300V control signals or something :)
[20:47:38] <alex_joni> owad: yes, but you need an interface card
[20:47:56] <owad> I won't be able to use the parallel port, you mean?
[20:48:15] <SWPadnos> they'll also require feedback that EMC can understand, like encoders (which may already be there)
[20:48:26] <SWPadnos> correct, the parport won't work directly
[20:48:33] <owad> it does have encoders (though I'm not certain how they're wired up)
[20:49:00] <SWPadnos> what's controlling it now (or before)?
[20:49:23] <owad> an Acramatic 2100
[20:49:39] <owad> and a few custom interconnect boards from Light Machines
[20:49:43] <owad> it's a Benchman 5000
[20:49:59] <alex_joni> http://www.sea.siemens.com/machine/product/mcA2100.html
[20:50:03] <SWPadnos> heh - well, I've never heard of any of those, btu that doesn't say much
[20:50:25] <owad> they're really expensive and everything's locked down
[20:51:04] <owad> I just bought the setup used and the control has a half dozen problems, so I figured I'd probably be best of scrapping it.
[20:52:59] <owad> I'm browsing EMC's 'supported hardware' page right now. Anybody have any specific recommendations?
[20:53:06] <SWPadnos> it's very likely that the drives use a 0-10V or -10 to 10V control voltage, since that's an industry standard
[20:53:25] <alex_joni> owad: the motenc has been suggested as good
[20:53:30] <owad> checking pdf…
[20:53:39] <alex_joni> but a lot of people bought the 5i20 from mesanet lately
[20:54:03] <owad> yep - 10v
[20:54:19] <owad> Thanks alex. I'll take a look at those.
[20:54:28] <tomp> owad: i've seen them used for electrodes, looked nice, stiff enuf, what i saw suggested it'd be suitable to rerofit with emc2
[20:54:42] <tomp> was yours enclosed?
[20:55:03] <owad> Yes
[20:55:09] <owad> automatic tool changer, too
[20:56:22] <tomp> rack tool changer as i remember?
[20:56:54] <tomp> meaning machine does most of the motion
[20:57:02] <owad> right
[20:57:25] <owad> the tool changer is mounted on the far end of the table
[20:58:19] <tomp> there may be caveats about using emc with rack tool changers. someone please comment before you spend money ;)
[20:58:41] <owad> Here's a description I got of how the tool changer works:
[20:58:48] <owad> "You just program the table to a XY location and lower the Z, trigger the air collet drawbar and pickup or drop a tool."
[20:59:00] <tomp> right
[20:59:20] <tomp> then you return to the program youinterrupted ( thats the catch)
[20:59:25] <SWPadnos> right now, the toolchange code in EMC2 doesn't support "arrays" of tools, I think
[20:59:59] <SWPadnos> but it's certainly compatible with G0 / M64Px / M65Px to move to the right spot and activate / deactivate the drawbar
[21:00:04] <owad> Would I need an array…?
[21:00:17] <jmkasunich> jepler: earlier you said "if 2.1.0 was released in time for the CNC workshop you'd be happy"
[21:00:17] <SWPadnos> even a row is an array, it's just one-dimension :)
[21:00:20] <tomp> array (a line of tools)
[21:00:27] <jmkasunich> I'd be very dissapponted
[21:00:40] <jmkasunich> I'm aiming for less than a month from now
[21:01:02] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was thinking at least a couple of months ahead of CNC workshop, so we can have some stuff to work on at Fest :)
[21:01:51] <owad> What's CNC workshop?
[21:02:09] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc-workshop.com
[21:02:10] <jmkasunich> its fin
[21:02:12] <jmkasunich> fun
[21:02:36] <SWPadnos> no, it's work (shhh - don't tell the IRS it's fun :) )
[21:02:35] <tomp> sanook! :)
[21:02:39] <owad> Anybody going to Cabin Fever next weekend?
[21:02:54] <SWPadnos> I think rayh may be
[21:03:18] <owad> It's about a 15-minute drive for me, so I'll definitely be heading over.
[21:03:53] <SWPadnos> only 8 or 10 hours from here :)
[21:04:40] <ejholmgren> nice html there ;) ... very patriotic?
[21:04:46] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah
[21:04:57] <SWPadnos> there actually used to be some information on the site :/
[21:05:05] <owad> How big is CNC-Workshop? Is it worth the drive out?
[21:05:19] <jmkasunich> yes (IMO)
[21:05:26] <jmkasunich> lots of CNC stuff, EMC and other
[21:05:30] <owad> The web page barely even describes what it is
[21:05:34] <jmkasunich> many of the EMC developers will be there
[21:05:36] <SWPadnos> well, I drove 22 hours each way last year, and I'm planning going again :)
[21:05:44] <jmkasunich> yeah, I really don't like the new website
[21:05:59] <owad> What goes on?
[21:06:03] <SWPadnos> as a script kiddie might say, it is teh sukc
[21:06:10] <ejholmgren> tool porn
[21:06:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:06:35] <owad> Are there workshops/classes?
[21:06:39] <jmkasunich> yes
[21:06:46] <SWPadnos> there are classes and demonstrations on a range of subjects
[21:06:51] <jmkasunich> man, that website _really_ sucks
[21:07:00] <jmkasunich> I just registered, and it still sucks
[21:07:08] <owad> Likely to be anything on learning CAM?
[21:07:12] <jmkasunich> it has only a miniscule fractiuon of the info that used to be there
[21:07:33] <SWPadnos> someone needs to tell Roland that nobody wants to register just to look at the information that should be in plain sight
[21:07:37] <jmkasunich> yeah
[21:07:50] <jmkasunich> I think I have his phone number somewhere///
[21:08:21] <ejholmgren> asp .... ewwwww
[21:08:54] <SWPadnos> his number should be in the contact list from last year, if nothing else
[21:08:58] <jmkasunich> here are some pics from two years ago at the workship
[21:09:00] <jmkasunich> http://www.cardinaleng.com/emc_mazak_project.htm
[21:09:07] <owad> Is a servo amp different than a servo drive?
[21:09:16] <jmkasunich> (cardinal engineering's own website isn't all fscked up)
[21:09:46] <rayh> Hi jmkasunich. You had a question for me?
[21:09:57] <owad> wow - so I should bring the truck and trailer? ;-)
[21:10:40] <ejholmgren> who are the 4 people in that middle picture?
[21:10:40] <jmkasunich> rayh: I was wondering about the requirements for GFI on kitchen counter outlets, and I know you are a licensed electrician
[21:10:43] <SWPadnos> yes, whether you want to buy a lot of junk or sell it ;)
[21:10:51] <jmkasunich> somebody answered the question for me (the answer was yes)
[21:11:05] <SWPadnos> (but may have been wrong :) )
[21:11:15] <rayh> A gfci is required on all kitchen countertop general purpose receptacles.
[21:11:29] <jmkasunich> just bought one
[21:11:39] <SWPadnos> GFCI protected, or a GFCI at each position?
[21:11:42] <jmkasunich> taking a break from fishing romex thru the walls
[21:11:52] <rayh> I normally put a gfci in the first box and feed the other receptacles from it.
[21:11:57] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: irrelevant for me, its gonna be a GFCI
[21:12:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:12:10] <SWPadnos> rayh, that's what I thougt
[21:12:27] <jmkasunich> rayh: this is old work, an outlet on the opposite side of the room from the sink and main countertop
[21:12:36] <jmkasunich> (above a short counter between stove and fridge
[21:12:39] <rayh> If you're being inspected you'll need two circuits for countertop.
[21:12:51] <jmkasunich> it will be fed from a different circuit than the others
[21:13:02] <jmkasunich> there are already two above the main counter, on two circuits
[21:13:05] <jmkasunich> this will make three
[21:13:16] <rayh> sounds good to me.
[21:14:01] <jmkasunich> this branch only feeds two other outlets, both intermittent duty
[21:14:11] <SWPadnos> outlets are one of the (few) things the students really did right when designing/building this house
[21:14:17] <jmkasunich> one in the basement ceiling, one on the front porch
[21:14:53] <rayh> Does the front porch have it's own ground fault receptacle?
[21:14:58] <jmkasunich> yes
[21:15:11] <rayh> Wait that's not outside is it?
[21:15:34] <jmkasunich> yes (under roof and in an outdoor duty box with the flaps
[21:15:44] <jmkasunich> I think
[21:16:03] <rayh> sure. I was trying to remember your place. Remember the garage and basement better than the entry.
[21:16:09] <ejholmgren> you bought a student built house?
[21:16:14] <ejholmgren> oh noes
[21:16:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:16:31] <SWPadnos> it's been here for 20 years, so it's unlikely they made any catastrophic mistakes ;)
[21:16:42] <SWPadnos> just lots of annoying ones
[21:17:18] <jmkasunich> rayh: yeah, its in a box with flaps, but I pressed the test button and no click
[21:17:23] <jmkasunich> those things don't like outdoors
[21:17:35] <jmkasunich> flap actually, one big one because its a gfi
[21:18:06] <jmkasunich> the feed to the front porch passes thru the box that has the basement ceiling outlet in it
[21:18:20] <jmkasunich> I could change that to GFI, and daisychain the porch from it
[21:18:31] <owad> That motenc is a bit pricey.
[21:19:23] <jmkasunich> rayh: does code now disapprove of putting the actual GFI outdoors?
[21:19:24] <rayh> If you've got enough gfci's for the job there is no need to daisychain.
[21:19:37] <rayh> No that is fine.
[21:19:40] <alex_joni> hi ray
[21:19:53] <rayh> But those monstor covers are a real nusance.
[21:19:57] <rayh> Hi alex.
[21:20:03] <jmkasunich> I use that outlet about twice a year
[21:20:09] <rayh> How's the weather there now.
[21:20:21] <jmkasunich> electric leaf blower in the fall, and christmas lights in the winter
[21:20:36] <rayh> That is one to many times.
[21:20:51] <rayh> I'd have to do without the leaf blower.
[21:20:52] <jmkasunich> weather here? (or alex?) rainy and 40ish
[21:21:32] <rayh> yuck. I'd rather have cold than near freezing.
[21:21:41] <jmkasunich> not me
[21:21:50] <jmkasunich> don't have to shovel rain
[21:22:06] <rayh> true.
[21:22:35] <jmkasunich> "monster cover"? do you mean the in use ones?
[21:22:39] <jmkasunich> this isn't that big
[21:23:05] <rayh> The cover that fits over a plug is a bad design.
[21:23:06] <jmkasunich> just a flap that covers the outlet (but it covers the whole thing, not one hole for each receptacle
[21:23:17] <rayh> The little covers were nice.
[21:23:23] <rayh> kept bugs and things out.
[21:23:33] <jmkasunich> since its well under the porch roof I'm not worried about the "in use" part
[21:23:34] <alex_joni> rayh: warm here
[21:24:06] <alex_joni> awallin: you still around?
[21:24:28] <awallin> alex_joni: hi, just came home.
[21:24:30] <jmkasunich> rayh: is roland likely to be at the shop on a saturday afternoon?
[21:24:40] <rayh> Yes.
[21:25:01] <alex_joni> awallin: hi, I think 2 weeks is more realistic, then a couple of months for 2.1.0
[21:25:04] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna give him a call and tell him (nicely) that the cnc workshop site stinks
[21:25:26] <rayh> He is there most everyday between 8-5 central time
[21:25:58] <awallin> alex_joni: right. well if people are reasonably satisfied with the current state of pyvcp, then it can be included in 2.1
[21:26:44] <alex_joni> awallin: I think that would be enough for now
[21:26:48] <jmkasunich> awallin: I'd like to include whatever you have (that works) in a few weeks as the 2.1.0 version of pyvcp
[21:26:58] <alex_joni> it's much more than I had on halui for 2.0.x
[21:27:47] <awallin> jmkasunich: , alex_joni, that sounds ok. anything I need to do, or could you handle the cvs magic for me?
[21:28:20] <alex_joni> awallin: there's no real cvs magic..
[21:28:31] <alex_joni> checkout 2.1, copy the files over, add to cvs, commit
[21:28:52] <alex_joni> the only thing is the submakefile / makefile needed foo..
[21:30:16] <jmkasunich> roland says he's working on the website a little every night, and in two weeks or less it should be pretty much done
[21:30:49] <alex_joni> he should get joomla :P
[21:30:57] <jmkasunich> awallin: if you'd like to continue working in HEAD and have one of us do the backport, that would work
[21:31:25] <jmkasunich> just let us know when it is in a state that you are comfortable releasing, we can copy that version over to 2.1, then you can continue in head with newer stuff
[21:31:59] <awallin> jmkasunich: that sounds good, by the end of the month it should be in a reasonable state
[21:32:51] <alex_joni> that sounds like a lot time
[21:33:41] <jmkasunich> end of the month? 2 weeks...
[21:34:08] <jmkasunich> if everything else is ready at that point, we do the backport on feb 1, and release on feb 7 after some quick testing
[21:34:08] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yeah, I was planing for a release by then
[21:43:55] <lerman> jmkasunich: re GFI on kitchen outlets. Kitchens are required to have at least two 20 amp circuits. So, if the GFI is in a box in the circuit, it must be a 20 amp GFI.
[21:45:08] <jmkasunich> lerman: not in the box, individual GFIs at the outlets
[21:46:00] <jmkasunich> (the box is an old federal pacific and its bulging at the seams - I'd love to replace it, but that is beyond what I'm willing to tackle, and plenty of $$ for a pro to do it
[21:46:05] <lerman> That's what I meant by box. (Sorry.) I haven't seen the outlet type in 20 amp versions.
[21:46:43] <alex_joni> anyone used lightscribe on linux?
[21:46:47] <lerman> When I moved into this house it had 60 amp service and 4 fuses (plus a range/dryer pair of fuses).
[21:47:03] <lerman> Converted to 200 amps myself.
[21:47:16] <alex_joni> over here you're not allowed
[21:47:30] <jmkasunich> well, with only 4 circuits to start with, the job is a lot easier
[21:47:33] <alex_joni> you need to be certified to work on 230V
[21:47:37] <jmkasunich> this one has to many to count
[21:48:20] <lerman> In Connecticut, you can do anything on your own house. No matter who does it, it has to be inspected by the building inspector.
[21:48:32] <jmkasunich> its a 20 position box, and many of the positions have duplex breakers in them (two independent circuits on the same phase, not a 230v two pole breaker)
[21:48:36] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_led.png: a screenshot of a led
[21:49:18] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_number.png: a screenshot of Number
[21:49:31] <lerman> The quick way is to add a new box with a circuit feeding the old box. Then move the feed to the new box and you are done until you want to add more circuits (to the new box) or move some from the old to the new. That's what I did (even with only four circuits).
[21:49:41] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: document Number
[21:50:07] <jmkasunich> what happens when you want to move a circuit from the old to the new, but the wires aren't long enough to reach
[21:50:55] <lerman> You need to add a junction box -- or do a lot of work. If you are moving all from the old to the new, you can use the old box as a junction box.
[21:51:26] <jmkasunich> see - it quickly escalates to "more than I want to tackle" ;-)
[21:51:58] <lerman> That's only if you insist on moving circuits from the old to the new. You can just leave them in the old box.
[21:52:17] <jmkasunich> I want to get rid of the old box because its such a mess
[21:53:10] <SWPadnos> an outlet box is a mess? that seems rather hard to accomplish :)
[21:53:15] <jmkasunich> main breaker box
[21:53:24] <SWPadnos> oh, that
[21:53:42] <SWPadnos> that would definitely be "more than I'd want to tackle" :)
[21:55:48] <lerman> jepler: are you around?
[21:56:06] <jepler> lerman: yep
[21:56:08] <jmkasunich> another reason why I would NOT keep the old panel as a subpanel: http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
[21:56:22] <lerman> What do you think of Pmw?
[21:56:35] <jepler> lerman: I've never used it. I think awallin tried for pyvcp, but ran into trouble.
[21:57:02] <lerman> It seems to have lots of good "mega widgets".
[21:57:19] <awallin> lerman: I tried it, but did not do very much with it, don't remember exactly why
[21:57:29] <jepler> awallin: something to do with problems subclassing?
[21:58:00] <lerman> Does someone have a good file open selector dialog widget I could use?
[21:58:28] <lerman> (Pmw doesn't seem to -- although I haven't looked real hard)
[21:58:32] <awallin> jepler: ah, yes, since I am a lazy programmer, pyvcp depends critically on all widgets being subclasses of tkinter widgets. vcpparse in its current form did not like a pmw widget
[21:59:10] <jepler> lerman: you don't like the built-in one?
[21:59:10] <jepler> >>> import tkFileDialog
[21:59:10] <awallin> lerman: jepler might disagree, but the most capable tookit for python could be wx (www.wxpython,org)
[21:59:12] <jepler> >>> f = tkFileDialog.askopenfile()
[21:59:48] <lerman> Where do I find decent documentation on all of this stuff?
[22:01:09] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py:
[22:01:09] <CIA-8> add FIXME texts all over the place
[22:01:09] <CIA-8> hint: if you are python literate and have free time, take a look!
[22:01:09] <jepler> there's not a lot of great documentation on tk
[22:01:36] <awallin> http://www.effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-index.htm
[22:02:27] <owad> Will EMC be able to trigger the air collet bar and respond to limit switches through a 5i20 board, in addition to to servo control and reading the encoder?
[22:02:45] <tomp> theres a lot of documentation on tk, it's just not great :)
[22:03:05] <awallin> owad: sure, but the 5i20 will not give out analog +/-10 V by itself, you need an addon card for that
[22:03:30] <owad> ok, but through
[22:03:43] <SWPadnos> the add-on is the 7i33
[22:03:43] <lerman> Thanks, jepber. I just tried tkFileDialog.
[22:04:02] <owad> through EMC I can program it to do other random stuff I need besides just motor control, right?
[22:04:11] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:04:22] <alex_joni> owad: there is a ladder program included
[22:04:41] <SWPadnos> the other I/O pins are available for use with the motion controller, classicladder (a built-in PLC), or external programs (M100-M199)
[22:05:09] <jepler> ... or for new HAL components you write in Python, C or C++
[22:06:18] <owad> Is there a breakout board for the 7i33? I can't find one.
[22:07:34] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ever tried lightscribe?
[22:07:51] <awallin> owad: what would the breakout board do?
[22:08:10] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, nope. are you talking about the CD/DVD marking thing?
[22:09:04] <alex_joni> yeah.. just got a drive that supports that
[22:09:20] <alex_joni> owad: http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brk2x25.php
[22:09:25] <alex_joni> http://www.daqstuff.com/50_pin_breakout_500013.htm
[22:09:26] <owad> the 7I33 has a 50-pin header. My motors and encoders are all separate.
[22:09:57] <owad> alex: that's exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks.
[22:10:15] <alex_joni> np
[22:11:29] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py:
[22:11:29] <CIA-8> make fillcolor and bgcolor work for Bar
[22:11:29] <CIA-8> fix the FIXMEs ;)
[22:14:19] <tomp> awallin: http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/index.html has the options for the items on canvas (seems to be correct so far)
[22:15:21] <awallin> tomp: thnx, I'll look at that.
[22:15:54] <owad> I think my spindle is controlled by a 0-10v signal, with 10v being its max speed of 10,000 RPM. I'm not sure how I'd interface that to the 5i20?
[22:16:11] <tomp> awallin: all options for tkinter dont seem valid for pyvcp tho.... on the pyvcp_widgets scale these dont work...
[22:16:17] <alex_joni> owad: pretty simple
[22:16:31] <alex_joni> the 5i20 has at least 4 servo outputs
[22:16:36] <awallin> tomp: no, the allowed xml elements are specified in pyvcp_widgets.py
[22:16:45] <awallin> tomp: but maybe that could be removed?
[22:16:45] <alex_joni> one of them is probably free... so you use that for speed setting
[22:16:49] <tomp> activebackground, repeatdelay, relief.... many more
[22:16:55] <alex_joni> and route the 0..10V analog to the control
[22:17:02] <jepler> oooh what a powerful stepper board this is: http://futurlec.com/Mini_SMCC.shtml
[22:17:03] <tomp> yes, they should be 'native'
[22:17:20] <tomp> scusa :(
[22:17:29] <awallin> tomp: OK, so that's one more FIXME
[22:17:47] <alex_joni> jepler: haha
[22:17:51] <owad> hmm… I was hoping I could get away without using that, in case I wanted to add a 4th axis
[22:17:58] <lerman> awallin: are you familiar with 'introspection' in object oriented languages? (no insult intended -- I haven't read you code)
[22:18:08] <alex_joni> owad: I think there is an 8 axis config for the 5i20
[22:18:27] <alex_joni> but I think that also reduces the number of general IO
[22:18:38] <lerman> Given a class, you should be able to determine what options IT knows about.
[22:18:42] <awallin> lerman: no, I am pretty much a beginner in oo (being an academic I have browsed through Gamma et al etc....)
[22:19:00] <awallin> lerman: yes, that's the sound way to do it, I just don't know how - yet
[22:19:07] <tomp> awallin: now coding an analog knob ( the jogwheel wont output a fraction even tho the container is a float ), and maybe same for scale widget
[22:19:35] <lerman> I'm not sure how one does that in python. But I believe I've seen enough to know that it is possible.
[22:19:40] <awallin> tomp: don't code new widgets, add a scaled output to jogwheel!
[22:20:24] <awallin> tomp: and the resolution for the scaled output could change when shift, alt, or control is held down
[22:20:58] <tomp> awallin: jogwheel is integer even tho the container is float, it's in many places forced to integer values (+=1, int() etc ), it cannot yield 0.5
[22:21:37] <tomp> the low level up & down insist onit
[22:21:58] <awallin> tomp: yes, that mimics a hardware encoder, it outputs an integer number of counts also. but the virtual jogwheel could have a float output
[22:22:07] <awallin> I would not like to change count
[22:22:13] <tomp> right, i'm making whats like a pot
[22:22:18] <tomp> new widget
[22:22:26] <jmkasunich> for pyvcp?
[22:22:30] <tomp> yes
[22:22:41] <jmkasunich> I agree with awallin
[22:22:45] <awallin> I would add a pin, so there would be jogwheel.0.count and jogwheel.0.scaled-count (or whatever)
[22:23:11] <jmkasunich> if you insist that the widget output a number that will never have a fractional part, call it "count" and make it an S32
[22:23:35] <jmkasunich> if you are going to output a float, you should copy the setup used by knob2float, and the motion controller jogwheel inputs
[22:23:49] <jmkasunich> with pins to control scale (and possibly enable)
[22:23:55] <tomp> the code has integer from the beginning ( floats with no fraction), i only "insist" that floats be allowed fractions :)
[22:24:22] <tomp> it's nice code, but wont tune gain
[22:24:25] <tomp> for me
[22:24:37] <jmkasunich> then you should have a "scale" pin that specifies the amount of change per "click" of the "knob"
[22:24:56] <awallin> I still think it's better to add to jogwheel than to code a new widget
[22:25:02] <tomp> which mean the 1 turn can be non integer (again not allowed)
[22:25:18] <awallin> jmk: that will be done by holding down shift/alt/ctrl, no new pins needed
[22:25:57] <awallin> tomp: just add a new pin to jogwheel, and make the up/down calculations for it float
[22:26:06] <jmkasunich> eww
[22:26:27] <jmkasunich> awallin: I guess I should have been yelling at you, not tomp? ;-)
[22:26:45] <jmkasunich> I thought that jogwheel did output a "real" float
[22:26:49] <tomp> no problem, consider it for my own use then,
[22:26:54] <tomp> .
[22:27:31] <awallin> do post your code somewhere, or commit if you have cvs access, I'm sure we can agree on something in the end
[22:27:39] <jmkasunich> such a widget should have scale (output change per click), min value, and max value "parameters", whether they are specified in the xml, or made hal pins so they can be changed on the fly
[22:27:39] <tomp> of course, you got it
[22:27:57] <jmkasunich> if you want the existing behavior, set scale to 1.0 and you have it
[22:28:12] <SWPadnos> tomp, why must one full turn result in an integer? consider 100 ticks at 0.0001 each ...
[22:29:26] <tomp> i never got it to give < 1, example please?
[22:31:03] <daniel_br> hi guys
[22:31:33] <awallin> tomp: the current pyvcp jogwheel will only give you integer counts
[22:32:12] <tomp> k, i'll send the code to you , i like whats been done but need some analog stuff, thanks
[22:32:24] <SWPadnos> make a new float-out pin, multiply integer_counts by scale, and you can get <1 output ...
[22:32:43] <awallin> tomp: now that I think about it, there might be a logic for a separate pot widget. Jogwheel will turn and turn with no minimum or maximum limit. A pot would have a minimum value and a maximum value.
[22:32:57] <tomp> it's lower than the output stage
[22:33:30] <awallin> SWP: but that requires HAL code. we can easily add to pyvcp and make the hal coding unneccesary
[22:34:01] <daniel_br> lerman, maybe you can add something like this in your code i'd just see this in cnczone http://cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewarticle&id=428
[22:34:13] <SWPadnos> I was talking about within the widget, not in HAL
[22:34:20] <owad> Is EMC uncommon in supporting commercial motion cards? I notice Mach3 and TurboCNC are both parallel-port only.
[22:34:27] <SWPadnos> bbl - gotta run and eat
[22:34:34] <awallin> SWP: ok, sorry
[22:35:03] <awallin> owad: parallell port is probably what 90% of hobby cnc'ers use
[22:35:51] <owad> Would I have an easier time with programming/control if I replaced my Copleys with Geckos and used the parallel port?
[22:36:19] <alex_joni> owad: not a lot easier
[22:36:27] <alex_joni> maybe cheaper
[22:36:55] <owad> yeah - I notice the price of the interface boards is approaching what I'd pay for three geckos
[22:37:19] <owad> any advantages to _not_ using the parallel port?
[22:38:26] <alex_joni> yes
[22:38:30] <alex_joni> slower speeds
[22:38:40] <alex_joni> depending on the resolution you want
[22:38:53] <alex_joni> you can probably get about 50kHz pulses from the PC
[22:39:05] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_meter.png: screenshot of meter widget
[22:39:05] <alex_joni> at 40000 pulses/inch, that's close to 1PS
[22:39:26] <alex_joni> of course those numbers are all made up
[22:39:50] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_bar.png: screenshot of bar widget
[22:41:32] <owad> In the back of my Benchman, I have a large board labeled "Encoder / Tach Board". It has three connectors coming out of it, labeled X/Y/Z that go to my Copleys. It also has three smaller connectors, with 8 or 10 pins, that are also labeled X/Y/Z, and that I presume go to the encoders. I presume the Encoder / Tach board would go, right? Would those encoder lines get hooked directly to the 7i33?
[22:41:51] <owad> Pic: http://www.applefritter.com/node/19515
[22:42:14] <daniel_br> jmkasunich, maybe this chip can be usefull in your future Gpl servo driver http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC33035-D.PDF
[22:44:13] <anonimasu> owad: also your system will be much nicer with a dedicated board..
[22:44:27] <owad> Why's that?
[22:44:40] <anonimasu> owad: you dont need to dedicate all your cpu time to pushing out pulses
[22:44:51] <owad> ah ok
[22:44:55] <anonimasu> owad: I'd stick with the copleys :)
[22:45:13] <anonimasu> les runs thoose drives on he's big router..
[22:46:24] <owad> Any idea what they cost to replace?
[22:46:50] <anonimasu> owad: what kind of motors do you have?
[22:46:50] <anonimasu> size`?
[22:47:25] <owad> 24V, 50 oz. in. (35 Ncm)
[22:47:30] <tomp> owad: i use copleys suited to brushed dc motors, they get power, analog command, and tacho, they output power to the brushes. meaning the other cables are encoder and copleys have no use for that info
[22:48:55] <owad> ok, so the copley's would be getting their analog commands and tacho directly from the 7i33 board, right? And the encoders would also be connected directly to the 7i33?
[22:49:08] <anonimasu> no. the tacho would come from the motors..
[22:49:17] <anonimasu> and the encoders would go back to the 7i33 board..
[22:49:24] <anonimasu> and command would go tho the baord also..
[22:49:30] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_spinbox.png: screenshot of spinbox
[22:50:14] <anonimasu> :)
[22:50:24] <anonimasu> owad: got a pic of your whole machine?=
[22:50:44] <owad> Looks just like this one: http://web.archive.org/web/19980212043518/http://www.lmcorp.com/bench5k.htm
[22:51:09] <anonimasu> ah tiny :)
[22:51:13] <owad> and it's as described on that page, except with a 10,000 RPM spindle and an ATC
[22:51:27] <anonimasu> nice machine :)
[22:52:30] <owad> Thanks. I was working on a CNC conversion to a mini mill when it came up for auction cheap. So I ditched the mini mill and went with this. :-)
[22:52:37] <awallin> owad: wow, me wants too!
[22:54:21] <alex_joni> owad: define cheap
[22:54:26] <owad> $900
[22:54:31] <alex_joni> CHEAP
[22:54:32] <alex_joni> :)
[22:54:58] <owad> One just went for $5,000 on eBay, though, which I thought seemed pretty good, too.
[22:55:00] <awallin> owad: how many hours has it done?
[22:55:13] <owad> Is there a way to tell?
[22:55:24] <owad> From the notes I have, I don't think it was run much.
[22:55:29] <awallin> some controls store that
[22:55:32] <owad> and it hasn't been used for a couple years
[22:55:41] <owad> actually, there is a log on the Acramatic
[22:55:45] <owad> but the Acramatic isn't working
[22:55:51] <owad> an error log, that is
[22:55:59] <owad> maybe a usage log too
[22:58:42] <owad> I'll be back in an hour or so. I _really_ appreciate all the help.
[22:58:58] <alex_joni> owad: no problem :)
[22:59:10] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:59:17] <owad> Thanks, all. 'Later
[23:00:51] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_scale.png: screenshot of scale
[23:04:57] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_jogwheel.png: screenshot of jogwheel
[23:05:15] <awallin> can I insert comments, that won't show in the output, into lyx ?
[23:06:34] <alex_joni> awallin: not that I know of
[23:06:44] <alex_joni> but you can put a footnote or sidenote, that's less intrusive
[23:08:59] <awallin> ok
[23:12:53] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (pyvcp_hbox.png pyvcp_vbox.png): hbox, vbox screenshots
[23:20:45] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: basic pyvcp description now in place
[23:21:24] <awallin> there. now the docs are in reasonable shape.
[23:21:46] <awallin> did jepler solve the latex2html problem ?
[23:21:59] <jepler> no, I haven't looked at it
[23:22:48] <alex_joni> lerman: still around?
[23:22:59] <awallin> jepler: how often are the pdfs and html generated? every hour?
[23:23:07] <alex_joni> couple of hours apart
[23:23:18] <jepler> awallin: something like that -- I just started a build so they'll be updated in <5 minutes
[23:23:44] <alex_joni> even if it's couple of hours, they (so far) always had the state I needed
[23:23:59] <jepler> but it terminated with an error:
[23:23:59] <jepler> make: *** No rule to make target `../docs/src/hal/pyvcp_label.png', needed by `depends/Master_HAL.d'. Stop.
[23:24:38] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:24:52] <awallin> jepler: wait, I'll update the image
[23:25:01] <jepler> awallin: alex_joni: you can make a paragraph have the "comment" style, which will not be shown in the output
[23:25:20] <jepler> in UserGuide (in my version of lyx anyway)
[23:25:34] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pyvcp_label.png: screenshot of label
[23:25:41] <alex_joni> jepler: oh, nice :)
[23:25:45] <awallin> now it should build
[23:25:53] <alex_joni> I'll probably never use it though
[23:26:22] <lerman> alex_joni: lerman is back
[23:26:42] <alex_joni> lerman: I wanted to ask you something..
[23:26:52] <lerman> go ahead.
[23:26:55] <alex_joni> about the changes you did to present messages to users from comments
[23:27:05] <alex_joni> how extensive/notorious are the changes?
[23:27:33] <lerman> Not much. In one file: interp_convert.cc (I think).
[23:27:38] <jepler> awallin: a note about showing multiple lines of stuff in LyX-Code: use ctrl-enter at the end of each line. it reduces the extra space between lines.
[23:27:49] <jepler> awallin: you can tell whether you used ctrl-enter by a red symbol that looks like the one on the enter key
[23:28:28] <awallin> jepler: ok, thanks, I'll do that when I work on the docs the next time
[23:28:29] <alex_joni> lerman: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc.diff?r1=1.52;r2=1.53
[23:28:33] <alex_joni> that one?
[23:29:10] <awallin> now the HTML seems to be updated. thanks.
[23:29:18] <jepler> awallin: yes the second update finished
[23:30:10] <awallin> jepler: still the missing </end> tags... but it's not consistent, sometimes they are missing, sometimes they show just fine
[23:30:15] <jepler> awallin: yeah
[23:30:19] <jepler> awallin: the generated html is plainly broken
[23:30:22] <lerman> Yes. I believe so.But there were really two steps. First I had named params with trailing $. Then I fixed that to #<name>
[23:30:29] <jepler> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&nbsp;&lt;halpin&gt;''my-button''</halpin&gt;&nbsp;]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(default&nbsp;is&nbsp;button.n)
[23:30:35] <alex_joni> eeeek
[23:31:23] <alex_joni> lerman: would it be ok if that would be part of 2.2.x ?
[23:31:52] <alex_joni> we are currently backporting some non-intrusive features to 2.1 before 2.1.0 is released
[23:32:07] <alex_joni> but mostly things which don't affect people that don't use them (like new drivers)
[23:33:23] <lerman> Well, it would be nice if it were thoroughly tested; but it shouldn't break anything. That would mean that named params would be part of 2.2.x also -- and that's fine with me. -- since I'm not using named params because I'm not using emc2 yet :-) it won't affect me either way.
[23:33:51] <alex_joni> lerman: glad you feel that way
[23:33:56] <lerman> I DO want to get named Owords done soon, also o<name>
[23:34:44] <awallin> someone mentioned sub-programs, is it possible to call sub.ngc from a main.ngc ?
[23:34:49] <jepler> awallin: no
[23:34:51] <jepler> not currently
[23:34:51] <alex_joni> awallin: nope
[23:34:58] <lerman> My main thing is to NOT have to merge my changes with anyone elses; but since I'm the only one doing stuff on the interpreter (it appears), that shouldn't be a problem.
[23:35:27] <lerman> That would be in the category of "include files". I haven't really looked at that yet.
[23:35:34] <awallin> subprograms would be an thing for the interpreter
[23:36:43] <awallin> tomp: you still there?
[23:36:54] <lerman> Yes. We could add a feature that caused a file to be included into the current file as if the file were copied there. That would let us have libraries of subroutines that were just included where needed.
[23:38:22] <tomp> awallin: hello
[23:38:44] <awallin> tomp: got anything working?
[23:39:15] <tomp> tcltk does, tkinter is the job at hand... expect at least a day for me to finish it
[23:39:48] <awallin> ok
[23:40:06] <tomp> really python ( i got a pointedStick in it:)
[23:40:23] <awallin> alex_joni: I added "canonical drivers" to the 2.1 page in the wiki, but maybe that's not relevant?
[23:41:23] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2.1.0
[23:41:30] <alex_joni> awallin: just modified that
[23:43:32] <anonimasu> haha
[23:43:39] <anonimasu> cute
[23:43:49] <alex_joni> anonimasu: ?
[23:43:55] <anonimasu> 00:41 < tomp> really python ( i got a pointedStick in it:)
[23:44:09] <awallin> damn these video codecs, now acemi has posted some new videos, but I can't watch them...
[23:45:19] <jepler> * jepler curses at latex2html
[23:45:47] <lerman> awallin: If you are interested in python introspection, see: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pyint.html
[23:46:01] <jepler> this simple program has a stray literal < in its html conversion: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/l2hbug.tex
[23:46:03] <tomp> awallin: yeh, the fab@home stuff same thing
[23:46:12] <jepler> s/program/document
[23:47:23] <alex_joni> x'' ?
[23:47:24] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has never really been certaint hat introspection was a good thig
[23:47:31] <robin_sz> rather liek reflectio in Java
[23:47:41] <awallin> lerman: thanks, I'll bookmark that for later reading
[23:47:43] <robin_sz> it *can* be useful
[23:48:20] <robin_sz> but there is a tendency for newbies to use it in crazy eays that break the basic tenets of OOP
[23:49:22] <jepler> awallin: you may want to try using Ctrl-" to insert an actual quote character in your python code examples, rather than just " which inserts a special (smart-quote-type) character instead.
[23:49:54] <jepler> awallin: that's "more correct" and seems to avoid the latex2html bug too
[23:49:56] <jepler> bbl
[23:50:33] <awallin> jepler: ok, thanks for that lyx tip
[23:51:17] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[23:51:40] <awallin> can anyone play the new videos by acemi, links at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
[23:51:53] <awallin> hi lerneaen_hydra
[23:52:01] <anonimasu> hello lh
[23:52:25] <awallin> alex_joni: maybe the better videos from the wiki video page could be hosted on linuxcnc.org
[23:52:40] <alex_joni> awallin: sure
[23:52:42] <acemi> i prepared it with ffmpeg, it's mpeg4
[23:52:44] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: works for m
[23:52:46] <lerneaen_hydra> *me
[23:52:58] <alex_joni> maybe you could remind me sometimes earlier in the day?
[23:52:59] <Ziegler> hey all
[23:53:04] <alex_joni> hello Ziegler
[23:53:16] <awallin> I have standard windows xp with all updates, and the the latest divx. what am I still missing?
[23:53:27] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: funny, should be working
[23:53:45] <Ziegler> Need some help using an 8 wire stepper unipolar if someone has the time
[23:53:47] <lerneaen_hydra> unless divx is being a bitch and only playing files with the 4CC "divx"
[23:53:53] <anonimasu> Ziegler: there's a great doc at geckodrive.com
[23:54:06] <anonimasu> Ziegler: about the wiring of one :)
[23:54:07] <Ziegler> Doesnt talk much about unipolar
[23:54:07] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: my advice would be to use ffdshow
[23:54:29] <Ziegler> let me read over it again
[23:54:31] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: prefferably a new build
[23:54:34] <alex_joni> FOURCC code "FMP4"
[23:54:37] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDShow.htm
[23:54:41] <lerneaen_hydra> for example
[23:55:11] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not sure but I seem to recal the commercial divx decoder being bitchy with the fourCC code
[23:55:39] <awallin> ok, I'm downloading that now. so are acemi's videos any good?
[23:56:25] <lerneaen_hydra> the resolution/bitrate left a bit to be desired ;)
[23:56:31] <lerneaen_hydra> if you can live with larger files
[23:57:40] <awallin> ok, now it's working, with ffdshow. thanks.
[23:57:45] <lerneaen_hydra> np