#emc | Logs for 2007-01-10

[00:09:46] <lerman______> lerman______ is now known as lerman
[00:13:37] <roel1> hi
[00:20:23] <robin_sz> dude!
[00:20:34] <robin_sz> still making circuit boards?
[00:55:08] <lerman______> lerman______ is now known as lerman
[01:50:29] <Jymmmm> Ok, HD has cold water grounding clamps for $1.39
[01:50:56] <skunkworks> sweet
[01:52:53] <Jymmmm> hose clamp almost as expensive, so why not
[01:53:29] <Jymmmm> and cheaper than a grounding rod + clamp
[01:53:49] <Jymmmm> sold seperately of course
[01:55:59] <skunkworks> my cold water pipe is plastic
[01:56:59] <Jymmmm> ew
[01:56:59] <skunkworks> I would have to run a wire to the well casing. but I have 2 ground rods barried about 8 feet apart and 8 feet deep.. in wet clay
[01:57:10] <Jymmmm> ah, ok
[01:57:21] <skunkworks> I mean the top of them are 8 feet under ground
[01:57:40] <skunkworks> (they where driven in before the basement was back-filled
[01:57:43] <skunkworks> )
[01:58:09] <skunkworks> not really sure if that is code ;)
[02:01:12] <Jymmmm> no clue =)
[02:30:17] <jmkasunich> blasted GFI
[02:31:49] <jepler> hi jmkasunich
[02:31:56] <jepler> having fun?
[02:32:03] <jmkasunich> not really
[02:32:19] <jmkasunich> I'm probalby gonna have to do my rewiring sooner rather than later
[02:32:32] <jmkasunich> the RFI filter has caps to ground
[02:32:58] <jmkasunich> which is fine in a stationary piece of equipment that is well grounded
[02:33:39] <jmkasunich> but the electrical code assumes people are going to be running around in a damp basement in their bare feet with a defective electric drill, so all my basement outlets have GFIs on them
[02:33:58] <jmkasunich> the small current thru the filter caps is probably gonna trip the GFI
[02:34:43] <jepler> I see
[02:34:50] <jepler> * jepler <-- pretty clueless about electrical stuff
[02:35:04] <jmkasunich> you know what a GFI is?
[02:35:25] <jmkasunich> strange looking outlet next to kitchen sinks, in bathrooms, and in basements...
[02:35:29] <jepler> I could point one out, yes
[02:35:36] <jepler> it seems to be some kind of local circuit breaker device
[02:35:38] <jmkasunich> ground fault interrupter
[02:35:53] <jmkasunich> it measures the current going out the hot wire, and coming back the neutral
[02:36:00] <steves_logging1> steves_logging1 is now known as steve_stallings
[02:36:20] <jmkasunich> if they don't match within 6mS (IIRC) it assumes the difference is going through you to ground, and it trips
[02:36:49] <jmkasunich> in my case, the difference is going thru a noise filter cap into the green wire safety ground, and there is no reason to trip
[02:36:52] <jepler> I see
[02:36:58] <jmkasunich> try convincing a GFI of that tho....
[02:37:01] <jepler> (a little better now than before)
[02:37:15] <jmkasunich> oops...
[02:37:25] <jmkasunich> if they don't match within 6mA, not mS
[02:37:31] <jepler> are you saying that this cap takes longer than 6mS to charge .. er, oh
[02:38:23] <jmkasunich> I really should plug my PC into an outlet without a GFI too...
[02:38:41] <jepler> measuring +-6mA on a 10A load -- that would take a very good current sense, about 1 part per 2000
[02:38:50] <jmkasunich> I accidently tripped the one on the bench testing something, now I get to restart all the VMs and such
[02:39:04] <jmkasunich> not really, just analog trickery
[02:39:17] <jmkasunich> they run both wires thru a toriod core, and the current cancels
[02:39:21] <jepler> ah ok
[02:39:25] <jmkasunich> the toroid only sees the difference
[02:39:35] <jepler> I was imagining two very low-value, .01% resistors
[02:39:43] <jepler> or the like
[02:39:57] <steve_stallings> any channel operator about? my steves_logging ID is "in use" but it must be an abandonded session that I cannot kill it
[02:39:59] <jmkasunich> this is all AC anyway, so transformers work
[02:40:37] <jmkasunich> steve_stallings: I think I have a note somewhere telling me how to get op status
[02:41:43] <jepler> I think you have to get help from freenode staff to kill a user's connection. Maybe this will help? http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#helpfromstaff
[02:42:23] <steve_stallings> jmk - I have removed the end bell from a Kelinginc stepper and had a bit of trouble getting it back on. Magnets are very strong and a precision fit of end bell is difficult while fighting magnet.
[02:42:33] <jmkasunich> thanks for the warning
[02:44:53] <jmkasunich> steve_stallings: I should have looked at the user list before I bothered to get op
[02:45:06] <jmkasunich> steves_logging isn't there
[02:45:46] <jmkasunich> not sure what if anything I can do for you
[02:46:04] <steve_stallings> true, but it will not allow me to change nick to it and claims it is owned by someone else, seems unlikely as it is not a generic name
[02:46:19] <jmkasunich> the someone else is you
[02:46:25] <jmkasunich> did you give your password?
[02:46:29] <steve_stallings> I will try staff assistance....
[02:46:47] <jmkasunich> /msg nickserv identify <password>
[02:48:25] <steve_stallings> I use that often as I change from logging to active, and I am recognized when I issue to attempt to change to "steves_logging" but it does not help
[02:50:53] <steve_stallings> by the way... the greatest problem with the Kelinginc motor end bell is that it is relatively soft alum and the motor body is steel which result is creating burrs on the aluminum as you try to press it into the mis-aligned opening
[02:51:23] <jepler> if the nick steves_logging is registered to you, you can try /quote ns ghost <nickname> [password]
[02:51:52] <jepler> (or /ns ghost ... depending on your IRC client)
[02:52:43] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:52:58] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[02:53:06] <jmkasunich> yay!
[02:53:13] <steve_stallings> jelper: bingo - THANKS
[02:56:12] <skunkworks> pain trying to figure how I wired the house 5 years ago...
[02:56:18] <steve_stallings> jmk - have you purchased motor driver yet for your motors?
[02:56:45] <jmkasunich> yeah, geckos
[02:57:23] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: beats trying to find out how somebody else wired the house 75 years ago
[02:58:11] <skunkworks> I suppose.. :) I ran tons of home runs to the breaker box - but for some reason - some I ran to swich boxes.. no ryme or reason. :)
[02:58:32] <skunkworks> switch/rhyme
[02:58:49] <steve_stallings> I have a customer that has G202s and may be having problems with 1200 oz-in motors purchase from HomeShopCNC tripping overcurrent protection in them
[02:59:07] <skunkworks> but as an over-do-er - I ran extra feeds to most boxes.
[02:59:57] <jmkasunich> my biggest problem is that the breaker box is full
[03:01:28] <jmkasunich> fortunately we prefer gas applicances
[03:01:41] <jmkasunich> the 50A electric stove circuit now feeds the subpanel in the garage
[03:01:59] <jmkasunich> and the 30A electric dryer circuit now feeds the central air
[03:02:12] <jmkasunich> but there are no other 240V circuits at all
[03:02:16] <jmkasunich> and no open 120V ones
[03:02:57] <jmkasunich> I've been tempted to parallel a subpanel in the basement off the same 50A breaker that feeds the garage
[03:06:04] <lerman______> lerman______ is now known as lerman
[03:09:15] <skunkworks> sounds like a plan. do you weld in the garage?
[03:09:34] <jmkasunich> not yet
[03:09:41] <skunkworks> :)
[03:09:50] <skunkworks> some day I will have a garage ;)
[03:09:51] <jmkasunich> but the possibility of a welder is one reason I ran the heavy feeder out there
[03:10:09] <jmkasunich> the Van Norman is out there, and it uses 220V
[03:10:30] <jmkasunich> but not much current, probablly less than 10A
[03:14:26] <lerman______> lerman______ is now known as lerman
[03:14:44] <jmkasunich> having problems lerman?
[03:35:50] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[03:38:14] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[03:43:05] <skunkworks> there - that light circuit is now working
[03:45:17] <skunkworks> other than I have to hook up 2 more sconses
[03:45:32] <skunkworks> sconces
[03:51:21] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[03:55:11] <cradek> SWPadnos: got the mesa stuff - thanks again!
[03:57:12] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: same here - looks great.
[03:57:20] <skunkworks> cradek: hooked up yet?
[03:57:23] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:58:15] <cradek> skunkworks: not yet, just got home and it's too late to start anything
[03:58:37] <cradek> I still have to figure out what to do with those stupid motor connectors...
[03:59:00] <SWPadnos> good deal guys :)
[03:59:14] <A-L-P-H-A> why to bikers on biker build off, look like garden gnomes?
[03:59:41] <cradek> I guess my note on the door worked - it's good to be in a safe area
[03:59:47] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, get my check yet?
[03:59:58] <SWPadnos> just barely
[04:00:02] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos??
[04:00:10] <SWPadnos> yes, today, I think :)
[04:00:16] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos. :)
[04:00:29] <A-L-P-H-A> "I think"? did you just imagine it?
[04:01:04] <A-L-P-H-A> freak'n cold... I opened my window to get more oxygen in my room, as my lips were turning dark, cause of lack of O2.
[04:01:04] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[04:01:25] <A-L-P-H-A> has jmkasunich, got his mesa? :D
[04:02:44] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:08:46] <cradek> can you hook an s32 writer to a u32 reader?
[04:09:26] <jmkasunich> no
[04:09:35] <jmkasunich> damned integer types...
[04:09:54] <jmkasunich> what pin is u32? there are very few, if any
[04:10:05] <cradek> halui.joint.selected
[04:10:17] <cradek> I was going to suggest he can generate it with weighted_sum, but that outputs s32
[04:10:38] <cradek> maybe we shuld change it
[04:10:39] <cradek> o
[04:11:05] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure what unsigned is good for
[04:11:22] <cradek> I suspect weighted_sum will be one of the most common ways to generate an input for that pin
[04:11:36] <cradek> well it's sure true that negative joints make no sense.
[04:12:10] <jmkasunich> clearly a negative joint is no good, but so are 2^32-8 of the possible values of aq u32
[04:12:19] <cradek> right
[04:12:42] <cradek> weighted_sum sure needs a manpage :-/
[04:12:54] <cradek> anyone going to cabin fever?
[04:13:00] <jmkasunich> no
[04:13:08] <jmkasunich> too far to drive
[04:13:14] <cradek> I'd go if it were close
[04:13:21] <cradek> it would be fun
[04:13:26] <jmkasunich> (not as far as cnc workshop, but if I want to see models NAMES is a lot closer
[04:14:18] <cradek> I'd probably go for the auction more than the models
[04:14:25] <jmkasunich> auction?
[04:14:30] <cradek> although I don't need anything that would fit in my car
[04:14:39] <cradek> I guess there will be auction/swap meets?
[04:14:45] <jmkasunich> you always need tooling
[04:14:59] <cradek> I suppose
[04:15:15] <skunkworks> I thought names would be cool - until I heard what happened to roland and ray. Sounds like a stuck up bunch. imo
[04:15:18] <jmkasunich> I'm rather annoyed at this 8-32 tap...
[04:15:46] <jmkasunich> proper size hole, plenty of oil, and it just decided to wipe the threads right out of the hole
[04:16:05] <cradek> you were fixing existing threads?
[04:16:06] <skunkworks> aluminum?
[04:16:14] <jmkasunich> no, making new ones
[04:16:22] <jmkasunich> in a panel, to mount a contactor
[04:16:32] <jmkasunich> 6-32 and 10-32 tapped fine
[04:16:44] <cradek> did you drill the 75% size since it's thin?
[04:17:01] <jmkasunich> I used #29
[04:17:08] <jmkasunich> I think thats 90%
[04:17:33] <jmkasunich> the same standard I used for the 6-32 and 10-32 holes, and they're fine
[04:17:36] <cradek> that seems small but I don't have the chart here
[04:17:37] <jmkasunich> no idea what happened
[04:17:41] <cradek> oh, hmm
[04:18:00] <cradek> that sucks
[04:18:11] <jmkasunich> the 8-32 tap is yellow (TiN coated) while the other 2 are bright
[04:18:30] <jmkasunich> I know TiN is better for steel, but I didn't know it sucked for aluminum
[04:19:06] <skunkworks> all different brands - I have some that seem to have no clearance for the chips. pain to use. go in a little - all the way out to clean the flutes.
[04:19:06] <jmkasunich> now I gotta find 8-32 nuts
[04:20:12] <jmkasunich> I'm in luck, looks like a 10-32 will just barely fit thru the mounting holes in the contactor
[04:20:23] <jmkasunich> I'll redrill and tap for #10 and call it good
[04:20:33] <cradek> yay
[04:20:45] <cradek> and throw out that tap?
[04:21:01] <cradek> "fool me once, shame on you"
[04:21:28] <jmkasunich> keep it for steel
[04:21:29] <cradek> every online chart does seem to show #29
[04:21:59] <cradek> my tap set has a chart that shows 60% and 75% for blind/deep and thin holes
[04:22:23] <jmkasunich> I wonder why thin has less thread depth than normal?
[04:22:32] <jmkasunich> I would think you need all the strength you can get
[04:22:49] <cradek> you use a smaller hole for thin, not larger
[04:23:03] <jmkasunich> smaller hole = more % of thread, I thought
[04:23:12] <cradek> yes I think so
[04:23:23] <cradek> 60% for blind/deep, 75% for thin
[04:23:35] <jmkasunich> what about for "normal"?
[04:24:08] <skunkworks> 62.5% ;)
[04:24:09] <cradek> not sure. I use 75 if it doesn't seem like I'll break the tap, 60 otherwise
[04:24:22] <cradek> yeah, or "whatever fractional drill is in between those"
[04:24:42] <jmkasunich> oh - what drill number does it recommend for 75% on an 8-32?
[04:24:46] <cradek> or "whatever drill I can find that's even remotely close"
[04:24:54] <cradek> brb
[04:25:08] <jmkasunich> you need to invest in a set of number drills...
[04:25:15] <Jymmm> 42
[04:25:34] <jmkasunich> Jymmm, no, 4-40 is #43
[04:25:57] <Jymmm> 42 is the meaning of life
[04:26:05] <jmkasunich> I know
[04:26:13] <Jymmm> 4-40 is just a pita
[04:26:26] <Jymmm> but WD-40 and a lighter is fun!
[04:26:37] <skunkworks> no - I thought it was the ansewer to the ultimate question of life the univers and everything
[04:26:47] <skunkworks> universe
[04:27:02] <cradek> #29 is the 75%
[04:27:10] <cradek> 9/64 is the 60%
[04:27:37] <cradek> the chart says "thin" means less than the diameter
[04:28:00] <cradek> oh I usually have the necessary numbered drills
[04:29:09] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, played with the mesa much?
[04:34:21] <jmkasunich> A-L-P-H-A: no, I've been busy with something else
[04:34:58] <jmkasunich> drilling and tapping and sawing and filing and such
[04:35:10] <jmkasunich> never new electrical work was so frickin mechanical
[04:35:35] <Jymmm> lol
[04:37:22] <Jymmm> I had to buy contractors packs of switches and outlets today. MUCH cheap3er btw
[04:43:32] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[04:50:25] <Jymmm> Hey, did you guys know that all broadcast TV will go bye-bye in 2009?
[04:50:34] <Jymmm> In the US at least
[04:54:56] <jmkasunich> I think I'm finally done with the oily work...
[05:02:26] <Jymmm> oily electrical work is NOT a good thing
[05:04:05] <jmkasunich> oily = drilling, tapping, etc
[05:04:23] <jmkasunich> I washed the panel well before starting to mount stuff on it
[05:09:14] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[05:09:59] <Jymmm> I didn't hear the from the beginning what you were doing.
[05:12:58] <jmkasunich> I'm building up this: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/shoptask/power-input-schematic.pdf
[05:43:51] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[06:07:53] <Jymmm> why is k1 12v?
[06:08:11] <jmkasunich_> because its what I had
[06:08:19] <Jymmm> ah,ok
[06:08:34] <jmkasunich_> and the 12V from the PC power supply will do a nice job of turning it on
[06:09:09] <Jymmm> all kinds of voltages on it
[06:09:25] <Jymmm> 220 48 12 110
[06:23:47] <ds3> hello
[06:47:12] <ds3> it is cold tonight
[07:08:17] <tomp> jmkasunich: your diagram looks like the 220V in a home (15 amps, like electric dryer). Can neutral be identified with a meter?
[07:14:17] <ds3> check the voltage against safety ground
[07:14:23] <ds3> neutral is the other zero volt wire
[07:16:25] <^eugenics> morning
[07:16:52] <tomp> ds3: i should expect neutral to safety gnd = 0V and safety gnd to true gnd ( like where gas company grounds meter ) also = 0v ?
[07:22:04] <ejholmgren> http://imagebin.org/6881
[07:22:16] <ejholmgren> gschem "works" in osx
[07:22:51] <ejholmgren> although it locks frequently if you get clicky
[07:28:57] <ds3> tomp: not always
[07:29:25] <ds3> neutral can carry current so there is I*R voltages on there relative to safety ground which should never carry current
[07:29:28] <tomp> ejholmgren: try eagle if you like, free schematic capture & pcb layout, extra libs available at website, free for osx
[07:29:48] <ejholmgren> limitations?
[07:30:06] <ds3> 3x4 board size and 2 layers max.
[07:30:12] <ds3> and you are not suppose to make $$ off it ;)
[07:30:20] <ejholmgren> and does it run natively? ...
[07:30:29] <ds3> native Linux executable
[07:30:29] <tomp> ds3: ok, so >small< currents ok from neutral to true gnd, but no voltage from safety to true gnd
[07:31:01] <tomp> ejholmgren: i think so, check the website, it said osx but i didnt catch version
[07:31:20] <ds3> tomp: should be around 0mA. the safety ground is not always sized to carry correct except in a fault situation
[07:31:23] <ejholmgren> have to check that out
[07:31:28] <tomp> http://www.cadsoft.de/cgi-bin/download.pl?page=/home/cadsoft/html_public/download.htm.en&dir=eagle/program/4.1
[07:31:44] <ds3> probally as long as a GCFI doesn't trip, it is okay (guessing)
[07:32:34] <tomp> thanks: i didnt know how close to gnd potential, 0 mA... thanks ( i dont trust the wiring here, circa 1910 and some cloth covered!)
[07:33:00] <tomp> gfi: good idea, there's a few here
[07:33:15] <ejholmgren> I only have fvwm for the X11 stuff at the moment (which takes me back about 10 years)
[07:34:48] <ds3> Mmmmm fvwm
[07:39:25] <tomp> goodnite all
[08:06:48] <alex_joni> morning all
[08:52:07] <Jymmm> hi alex_joni
[08:52:22] <alex_joni> how goes it Jymmm ?
[08:53:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Not bad I guess... eletrical fire diverted
[08:53:27] <alex_joni> nice
[08:53:32] <alex_joni> how is your housing situation?
[08:53:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni Moved the last box in December 25th @ 1500
[08:54:58] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Then the gf's monitor went out, replaced it. a day later my 32" TV went out, replaced it. 2 days after that, the frig went out, replaced it. The replacement frig was defective, had it fixed two days later.
[08:55:39] <alex_joni> ouch
[08:55:45] <Jymmm> Then had an eletrical short in a lamp. replaced the outlat and wall switch
[08:55:52] <Jymmm> outlet
[08:56:12] <Jymmm> HAd critter scratching on back door, installed motion light.
[08:56:25] <Jymmm> Murphy is just hard at work.
[08:56:29] <alex_joni> so it's going well I guess :D
[08:56:32] <alex_joni> on the right track I mean :P
[08:56:42] <Jymmm> LOL, yeah.. I guess =)
[08:56:54] <alex_joni> well.. it's getting better.. ain't it
[08:56:58] <Jymmm> Yeah, were in. only took 5.5 months
[08:57:12] <alex_joni> if you spend 5 years there, that's close to nothing :)
[08:57:15] <Jymmm> 13 truck loads later
[08:57:29] <Jymmm> I dont plan on it.
[08:57:45] <alex_joni> no?
[08:57:47] <alex_joni> after all the pain? :D
[08:57:57] <Jymmm> No, just a stepping stone.
[08:58:54] <Jymmm> It got us out from under "those people", but bigger better plans now. Clear the clutter and off to better things. At least that's the plan for aow anyway
[08:59:07] <Jymmm> s/aow/now/
[09:02:16] <Jymmm> I'm looking at setting up an HD tuner/antenna, but looking intot he detials now
[09:04:23] <alex_joni> HDTV ?
[09:04:34] <Jymmm> Terestial HD
[09:04:48] <Jymmm> over the air (not cable or satellite)
[09:04:56] <alex_joni> right
[09:05:00] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country#United_States
[09:05:02] <alex_joni> seen some cheapish USB tuners
[09:05:09] <alex_joni> not sure how good they are though
[09:05:38] <Jymmm> @009 is the deadline, after that there is no more broadcast TV
[09:05:39] <Jymmm> 2009
[09:06:03] <Jymmm> Channles 2 thru 83 will go bye-bye
[09:06:07] <alex_joni> well.. they said that for analog radio too
[09:06:22] <Jymmm> No, this is already in effect in the Federal Rgister.
[09:06:39] <Jymmm> They've had 4 years, 2009 is the deadline
[09:06:40] <alex_joni> guess I'm not affected by it right now
[09:06:50] <alex_joni> I will be when tv sets without HD go up in price :D
[09:07:50] <Jymmm> go DOWN in price oyu mean, as they'll be worthless
[09:08:00] <Jymmm> at least not w/o a HD tuner
[09:08:12] <alex_joni> I'm not so sure
[09:08:17] <alex_joni> they will be making way less of those
[09:08:23] <alex_joni> so it might go up in price
[09:08:33] <Jymmm> What, like an Atari 2600?
[09:08:41] <alex_joni> I hardly doubt europe will have 50% coverage by 2009
[09:08:55] <alex_joni> Jymmm: they will surely drop in price in the US
[09:09:00] <alex_joni> I'm talking over here
[09:09:04] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[09:09:35] <Jymmm> Congress finally fixed February 17th, 2009, in law as the maximum end date for analog television authorizations.
[09:10:00] <alex_joni> darn..
[09:10:06] <alex_joni> just got a quotation back
[09:10:13] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner
[09:10:16] <alex_joni> 200 EUR for a small laser gimmick
[09:10:20] <Jymmm> lol
[09:10:38] <alex_joni> one for adjusting laser barriers
[09:11:06] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[09:11:35] <alex_joni> http://www.leuze.de/products/las/la/p_01_en.html
[09:11:40] <alex_joni> doesn't feel like 200 EUR
[09:11:52] <alex_joni> it's simply a laser pointer with 2 screws on the side
[09:12:34] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92801
[09:13:02] <alex_joni> not quite the same thing
[09:13:28] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=54050
[09:13:47] <alex_joni> I use these: http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_01_en.html
[09:13:51] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94644
[09:14:04] <alex_joni> usually 4-5m apart
[09:14:07] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94911
[09:14:12] <alex_joni> the right one is a mirror
[09:16:55] <alex_joni> Jymmm: seen http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_01_en.html ?
[09:17:36] <paragon36> Morning All
[09:17:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni where's the sharks?
[09:17:46] <alex_joni> http://www.leuze.de/products/las/robust4/p_04_en.html
[09:18:20] <alex_joni> aligning those 4 laser (invisible of course) over 6m is a real PITA
[09:18:24] <alex_joni> morning paragon36
[09:27:07] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=free-to-air&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[09:27:53] <Jymmm> http://coolsatusa.com/4000pro.htm
[09:30:27] <simon78> simon78 is now known as slundell
[09:31:42] <slundell> slundell is now known as slundell_
[09:32:55] <slundell_> slundell_ is now known as slundell
[09:35:12] <alex_joni> Jymmm: sounds like a sat receiver to me :)
[09:35:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni sorta, but free
[09:35:35] <Jymmm> no subscriptions
[09:35:48] <alex_joni> is that unusual?
[09:35:54] <Jymmm> yes
[09:39:57] <alex_joni> that seems odd
[09:40:03] <alex_joni> seen lots around here
[09:40:12] <anonimasu> alex_joni: there are laser cards..
[09:40:13] <alex_joni> every big store has them
[09:40:22] <alex_joni> anonimasu: laser cards?
[09:40:26] <anonimasu> wait a moment
[09:40:44] <anonimasu> alex_joni: cant you use polarized glasses or something?
[09:41:01] <alex_joni> hmm..
[09:41:06] <alex_joni> never tried :D
[09:41:12] <alex_joni> and no polarized glass around to test
[09:41:46] <anonimasu> I think there are cards that glow on laser exposure..
[09:43:14] <alex_joni> never seen those
[09:43:41] <anonimasu> my memory might be broken again though
[09:49:49] <anonimasu> alex_joni: sorry for shitting you, they probably dont exist as I cant find them..
[09:51:12] <alex_joni> heh.. not a reason for them not to exist :)
[10:08:55] <paragon36> Iv'e been looking into the HAL primarily using the pluto-p and I beginning to understand it at least a little more running halcmd show pin etc while changing things within the axis gui. One thing occured to me and that it would be nice to have a hal gui configurator ie a graphical interface with components pin and signals that could be graphicaly connected together to produce a .hal file....
[10:08:57] <paragon36> ...Has this been considered or does it already exist?
[10:09:49] <alex_joni> paragon36: it has been considered
[10:11:13] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1020128&group_id=6744&atid=356744
[10:11:19] <alex_joni> Date Submitted:
[10:11:19] <alex_joni> 2004-08-31 19:35
[10:12:24] <alex_joni> paragon36: a few people started working on this, the best result was by jepler: http://axis.unpy.net/files/01161727709/hallelujah5.png
[10:12:44] <paragon36> Would be a nice addition. Additionlay one could watch in realtime the interaction between EMC2 - hardware in realtime in a visual way. A bit like a traceroute gui map
[10:12:45] <alex_joni> it's not complete / functional right now, and I'm not sure if jeff is still working on it
[10:13:43] <paragon36> Thanks Alex Ill take a look at the links .... Unfortunatly my coding skill's are more perl / ksh orientated these days :-(
[10:14:38] <alex_joni> paragon36: I know it would be nice..
[10:14:51] <anonimasu> hm
[10:15:00] <anonimasu> talked to a app engineer again..
[10:15:09] <anonimasu> the design I want is possible..
[10:16:09] <alex_joni> can you ask him about mine too? :D
[10:16:22] <anonimasu> lol
[10:16:30] <anonimasu> I dont know about your _thin_
[10:16:31] <anonimasu> g
[10:16:32] <anonimasu> :D
[10:16:49] <alex_joni> it's a simple one :D
[10:17:12] <paragon36> Alex appears that it's been put on the back burner for a while last update on the link you sent was 2004
[10:17:25] <alex_joni> paragon36: the tracker, yes
[10:17:32] <paragon36> yes
[10:17:33] <alex_joni> but the work jeff did was last year
[10:17:39] <paragon36> Oh ok
[10:19:52] <paragon36> so is there a kind af partial release in the HEAD?
[10:22:20] <alex_joni> no, it's not released anywhere :D
[10:22:48] <paragon36> :-)
[10:22:59] <alex_joni> you need to bug jeff about this :)
[10:23:21] <alex_joni> but right now, as far as I understand it, it only inspects an existing configuration, and you need to place the components manually
[10:23:26] <alex_joni> so that you don't have a full mess
[10:23:42] <paragon36> I see
[10:24:40] <paragon36> I'll bug him when I feel more comfortable with my understanding of the HAL ;-)
[10:31:39] <anonimasu> hm
[10:31:48] <anonimasu> I wish dallur would come by
[10:33:11] <Dallur> Im here :D
[10:33:21] <anonimasu> oh
[10:33:28] <anonimasu> for plasma how do you do thc?
[10:33:47] <Dallur> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
[10:33:57] <anonimasu> I mean the physical stuff
[10:34:02] <Dallur> ahh
[10:34:38] <anonimasu> :)
[10:34:37] <Dallur> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/dallur-thc-design.txt
[10:34:48] <anonimasu> will that work for my machine?
[10:34:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: There in the top I list the hardware that my stuff works with
[10:35:01] <Dallur> anonimasu: depends on what hardware you have really
[10:35:05] <anonimasu> ah..
[10:35:08] <anonimasu> that kind of thc..
[10:35:30] <alex_joni> voltage controlled, iirc
[10:35:31] <anonimasu> I wonder how fast campbelldesigns ships one..
[10:35:47] <alex_joni> Dallur: how well does it work?
[10:35:54] <anonimasu> I wondered if there were a homebrew version..
[10:36:11] <Dallur> alex_joni: I have not done enough testing to recommend with or against it
[10:36:20] <alex_joni> anonimasu: all you need is an ADC
[10:36:20] <Dallur> anonimasu: there is a homebrew version
[10:36:41] <Dallur> thc-300 is based on MP10000
[10:36:42] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I need to voltage divider stuff also..
[10:36:53] <Dallur> err MP1000 which comes from a yahoo forum
[10:36:58] <alex_joni> anonimasu: only a bit :D
[10:37:04] <anonimasu> Dallur: got a link?
[10:37:15] <alex_joni> anonimasu: HF is also a bit of a problem :P
[10:37:17] <Dallur> the original design stuff was all made by a couple of guys on a yahoo forum, just a sec
[10:37:32] <alex_joni> Dallur: have you tested with emc-2.1.x ?
[10:37:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders if CL still works and all..
[10:38:00] <Dallur> alex_joni: I did all my work on head a couple of months ago
[10:38:31] <Dallur> I have not tested for a couple of months so don't know
[10:38:34] <anonimasu> I wonder how the delievry is of a thc-300
[10:38:34] <alex_joni> yeah, but that might have been before jepler ported classicladder (newer version)
[10:39:22] <Dallur> yup, I also wanted to test if I could get the new classicladder features hooked up (float signals)
[10:41:21] <anonimasu> Dallur: got any idea at all?
[10:41:29] <Dallur> anonimasu: the thc-300 and the MP1000 were both designed to work with Mach2/Mach3 and so the development is from that
[10:42:01] <anonimasu> yeah..
[10:42:06] <anonimasu> but shipping.. and stuff.
[10:42:11] <Dallur> anonimasu: for the design info you can find some in the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/ but most of it is in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Master5/
[10:42:32] <Dallur> anonimasu: I just got a box with the whole thing, I can't remember how long it took
[10:42:33] <anonimasu> Dallur: I can buy one, it's just a shipping issue..
[10:42:42] <anonimasu> ~3 weeks is fine..
[10:42:54] <Dallur> anonimasu: I'm sure it was less, more like 1 week to Iceland :P
[10:43:02] <anonimasu> nice
[10:43:42] <Dallur> alex_joni: I will be testing everything in a week or two though, I'm currently reassembling the table after having it hot dip galvanized :D
[10:44:03] <alex_joni> oh nice
[10:44:03] <alex_joni> :)
[10:44:31] <Dallur> alex_joni: I need to upload some pictures, it's very "bling bling" with a shiny metal surface
[10:45:18] <alex_joni> hehehe
[10:46:17] <Dallur> btw, I got thinking this morning that the next version of ubuntu will ship with hardware accelerated X desktop turned on by default, wondering if this will cause any problems for emc
[10:46:53] <paragon36> Dallur: Why is it not?
[10:47:36] <Dallur> paragon36: Why would it cause problems ?
[10:48:13] <anonimasu> I think I'll order a THC..
[10:48:17] <alex_joni> Dallur: we still support only dapper (6.06)
[10:48:21] <alex_joni> 6.10 is not supported
[10:48:42] <alex_joni> but when it will be I guess the accelerated X desktop won't work because there are no drivers for the realtime kernel
[10:49:01] <alex_joni> I specifically built the nonfree drivers for 2.6.15-magma without the nvidia or ati drivers
[10:49:04] <paragon36> Sorry Dallur that was meant more as a question as in is not enabled as default :-)
[10:50:54] <paragon36> Currently how much is EMC1 / EMC2 used in industry?
[10:51:42] <alex_joni> paragon36: we have no way of knowing that :)
[10:52:01] <alex_joni> there should be at least a couple hundred industrial users
[10:52:07] <alex_joni> and loads of hobby grade users
[10:54:08] <paragon36> sure .... I was just wondering how industry has received it as an alternative solution to off the shelf big buck solutions.
[10:56:26] <paragon36> Comming from a banking background (solaris admin) I have seen the banking industry move towards opensource Linux (RH / Suse) more and the last 2 - 3 years. The stigma attached to opensource and critical production system has certainly evaporated within that business sector.
[10:57:49] <paragon36> I would only presume the same is / will happen with in the automation / manufaturing industry.
[10:58:12] <Dallur> paragon36: the funny thing about the banking industry is that they still don't seem to keen on telling anyone outside their organization about the "move to open source"
[10:58:44] <Dallur> paragon36: I think it might similar with other mission critical computer systems
[11:02:36] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screenshots
[11:02:47] <alex_joni> feel free to add other screenshots there people :D
[11:03:12] <paragon36> Dallur: I agree! However I have noticed a huge increase for Solaris / Linux skills when checking out jobserve within the banking sector. UBS has been a Red Hat house (blade) for some 2-3 years now and just about the rest are following. Interesting times :-)
[11:03:21] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[11:04:13] <paragon36> Moring Lerneaen
[11:04:29] <Dallur> moaning
[11:04:43] <lerneaen_hydra> err, that would be A-L-P-H-A
[11:04:51] <paragon36> s/Moring/Morning/g lol
[11:04:52] <lerneaen_hydra> ;)
[11:05:10] <alex_joni> hi lh
[11:05:45] <paragon36> Dam vnc connection from work to home has lag .... but I know I can't spell for sh$% ;-)
[11:05:53] <lerneaen_hydra> what's happening?
[11:06:00] <alex_joni> Dallur: I saw you used tkemc in your setup
[11:06:15] <alex_joni> paragon36: why not use ssh? :)
[11:06:30] <alex_joni> text is surely enough for IRC :)
[11:06:31] <Dallur> alex_joni: yup, I use it when I run a remote X server because Axis does not play nice over remote X
[11:06:48] <alex_joni> Dallur: ok, it changed a bit lately
[11:06:52] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/tkemc.png
[11:07:33] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: um, a setup with a milling environment might be nice
[11:07:41] <lerneaen_hydra> so you can see the 3d goodness
[11:07:52] <Dallur> alex_joni: I noticed some changes the last time I built from head, but the optional stop is new :D
[11:07:53] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: feel free :D
[11:08:07] <alex_joni> Dallur: teh spindle override and optional stop are the new things
[11:08:36] <Dallur> alex_joni: What is the logic behind the Optional Stop ?
[11:09:05] <alex_joni> if you program M1 and the button is activated it stops just like M0
[11:09:14] <alex_joni> if it's not activated it keeps going
[11:10:23] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/main/index.html#sub:Optional-Program-Stop-Interaction
[11:10:29] <Dallur> alex_joni: so it's a stop which kicks in after a g-code line has finished executing
[11:10:51] <alex_joni> Dallur: no, only when you program M1
[11:11:30] <Dallur> alex_joni: to change tools/tips or just for manual user actions
[11:11:41] <alex_joni> usually manual user actions
[11:13:28] <paragon36> I agree but I have my linux desktop running here for mail / emc2 / unmonitored web surfing (skiving) so I am using Xvnc via a ssh tunnel .... Most the time its fine but on the occasion lag rears it head ;-)
[11:14:34] <alex_joni> I use ssh/screen/irssi for IRC
[11:14:35] <paragon36> Catch you soon got to go and install \ configure SNMP on 12 linux servers should be fun....
[11:14:54] <alex_joni> that way I can connect/disconnect and the client stays on
[11:35:25] <anonimasu> Dallur: going to order a thc as soon as I get a quote on the shipping time
[11:42:13] <fenn> http://bp1.blogger.com/_NckaSydoEac/RZfrIE1Q1HI/AAAAAAAAAiY/bUgIGdKtcAE/s1600-h/lego-ice-cube.jpg
[11:42:56] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn: haha, nice link
[11:44:06] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: ooh, does screen let you ssh into a machine, start a task, disconnect, and still leave it running?
[11:46:19] <anonimasu> what time is it in the us?
[11:46:29] <Dallur> anonimasu: great, btw I think it would be good to let Bob Campbell know that you intend to use it with EMC
[11:46:33] <lerneaen_hydra> -9 hours or thereabouts
[11:46:41] <lerneaen_hydra> so 4am?
[11:46:51] <lerneaen_hydra> there are three different timezones though
[11:47:04] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC -9 is the western timezone
[11:52:41] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: yes, exactly that
[11:53:08] <alex_joni> http://www.hmug.org/man/1/screen.php
[11:54:46] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: doing <command> & isn't enough to keep it running I take it?
[11:55:31] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: it is
[11:55:38] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, even better
[11:55:39] <alex_joni> but this way you can start commands with text guis
[11:55:44] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[11:55:46] <alex_joni> and see what is still working or not
[11:55:57] <anonimasu> Dallur: will do that..
[11:56:04] <alex_joni> for example.. starting a wget is messy with &
[11:56:06] <anonimasu> Dallur: ideally I'd just want the sense card..
[11:56:14] <anonimasu> :)
[11:56:16] <alex_joni> it'll just keep printing things to the console
[11:56:26] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: in my case it would be for starting a server-ish app
[11:56:30] <alex_joni> and if you want to kill it you need to look up the process number, etc
[11:56:36] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, with top for example
[11:56:40] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: in that case /etc/init.d/ is better :D
[11:56:52] <lerneaen_hydra> how do you add your own stuff to it?
[11:56:53] <alex_joni> or cron
[11:56:57] <lerneaen_hydra> just make a script?
[11:57:00] <alex_joni> yup
[11:57:11] <lerneaen_hydra> with !#bin/bash in the start?
[11:57:26] <alex_joni> or #°/bin/sh
[11:57:31] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[11:57:30] <alex_joni> or #!/bin/sh
[11:57:51] <alex_joni> depends what you need inside, and how portable you want it :P
[11:57:53] <lerneaen_hydra> I see, those init before runlevel 5, right?
[11:58:01] <alex_joni> those who?
[11:58:14] <lerneaen_hydra> scripts in /etc/init.d
[11:58:17] <alex_joni> nope
[11:58:22] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, when do they load?
[11:58:27] <alex_joni> you need to make a script there, and symlink to it from one of the runlevels
[11:58:41] <alex_joni> Sxxname -> ../yourscript.sh
[11:58:41] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[11:58:52] <alex_joni> where xx is the start number
[11:59:06] <alex_joni> usually these are in /etc/init.d/rc.3/ or rc..5
[11:59:10] <alex_joni> depending on your default runlevel
[11:59:16] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, cool
[11:59:23] <alex_joni> 3 used to be default with no X, 5 with X
[11:59:25] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[11:59:26] <alex_joni> but that changed lately :P
[11:59:31] <lerneaen_hydra> what?
[11:59:35] <lerneaen_hydra> they've changed that?
[11:59:37] <danex> alex_joni, it has been awhile,
[11:59:42] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: some did
[11:59:45] <lerneaen_hydra> ack
[11:59:53] <lerneaen_hydra> what's it now?
[12:00:06] <alex_joni> I think ubuntu uses 2 for full with X
[12:00:15] <anonimasu> Dallur: what does the setting on the front of the board do?
[12:00:17] <lerneaen_hydra> aaargh
[12:01:51] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: anyways init is gone now :D
[12:01:57] <alex_joni> ubuntu 6.10 doesn't use it anymore :P
[12:02:06] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[12:04:02] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart
[12:05:35] <danex> alex_joni good afternoon
[12:06:29] <lerneaen_hydra> funny
[12:07:51] <lerneaen_hydra> suddenly no KB input was accepted and "DCOP communication error" windows popped up whenever I tried to start new processes
[12:07:56] <Dallur> anonimasu: the front setting on the board hmm
[12:08:14] <lerneaen_hydra> mouse worked fine and I managed to set myself to away in IRC though :/
[12:08:18] <Dallur> anonimasu: you mean the turn knob on the front of the board ?
[12:11:08] <Dallur> anonimasu: the knob on the front panel sets the voltage that the THC is supposed to maintain, if the arc voltage rises above or below that setting +- buffer an output pin is set high, this pin is read into EMC and emc moves the torch up/down
[12:12:03] <^eugenics> anonimasu, did you buy a thc?
[12:12:08] <Dallur> anonimasu: if you are looking for a system where you can set the voltage from EMC directly I suggest you look at the MP1000 from CandCNC
[12:12:25] <^eugenics> Dallur, how is your table coming along?
[12:12:53] <Dallur> eugenics: still assembling after the hot dip galvanizing, but it's coming along :D
[12:13:02] <^eugenics> cool
[12:13:34] <^eugenics> Dallur, let me know when it is up and tested.
[12:14:27] <Dallur> eugenics: I will, I also plan to check in a new config with more features and some bug fixes
[12:14:49] <^eugenics> intresting
[12:15:34] <Dallur> eugenics: I implemented things like corner height lock and such but I have not tested them
[12:17:14] <^eugenics> ok
[12:21:26] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: looking at buying one..
[12:21:35] <anonimasu> Dallur: it's too bloody expensive :D
[12:21:47] <anonimasu> Dallur: I'd like a 0-10v output..
[12:21:50] <anonimasu> really
[12:21:59] <anonimasu> I'd write plc code for the rest..
[12:22:49] <^eugenics> anonimasu, I have one like Dallur and it seemes to work OK
[12:23:06] <alex_joni> anonimasu: get a mesa 5i20 :P
[12:23:27] <anonimasu> alex_joni: omfg.
[12:23:44] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what?
[12:24:21] <Dallur> ?
[12:25:21] <^eugenics> anonimasu, Are you thinking of building some electronics to handle a thc?
[12:25:32] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: well I cant find any schematics ro anything.
[12:25:42] <Dallur> anonimasu: I have some at home btw, from the Master5 list
[12:25:53] <^eugenics> I only found a little
[12:26:19] <anonimasu> Dallur: could you share them with me?
[12:26:46] <Dallur> anonimasu: sure, when I get home I can send them to you, I have to dig around my HDD to find them but should not take long
[12:27:42] <anonimasu> thanks!
[12:27:44] <anonimasu> Dallur: advanced stuff?
[12:28:02] <Dallur> anonimasu: some electrical diagrams and such
[12:28:04] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:28:08] <anonimasu> but are there 3k components?
[12:28:21] <Dallur> anonimasu: not sure to tell you the truth, been a while
[12:28:22] <^eugenics> It would be nice to control the thc with a microcontroller that can be fed with info over USB/PP or alternative
[12:28:59] <Dallur> anonimasu: The real problem is dealing with the HF, everything has to be isolated and re-isolated and over and over and over
[12:29:31] <^eugenics> Dallur is becoming a shieldexpert ;)
[12:29:34] <Dallur> anonimasu: the rest is actually really basic, just sense the arc current/voltage by hooking up to the mains
[12:29:54] <anonimasu> yeah..
[12:30:37] <Dallur> anonimasu: put in a transformer to step it down by a factor of 10 or so, put in a configurable upper/lower limit and put out a couple of 5v signals
[12:31:12] <Dallur> all the logic is done in software as it is
[12:31:18] <^eugenics> Dallur, but it is dead current!?
[12:31:54] <Dallur> eugenics: dead current ?
[12:32:03] <^eugenics> eh not alternating then ;)
[12:32:05] <anonimasu> Dallur: well, that schematic you had would work right?
[12:32:16] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup
[12:32:27] <anonimasu> should be lots easier then..
[12:32:48] <^eugenics> Can I have a peak on this schematic?
[12:32:52] <^eugenics> plz
[12:32:53] <Dallur> anonimasu: I recommend you sign up for the Master5/Mach2/Mach3 lists, all the design was pretty much done over those lists so they contain a bunch of info
[12:33:03] <Dallur> eugenics: I will mail em to you do :D
[12:33:09] <anonimasu> is that yahoo groups?
[12:33:12] <Dallur> anonimasu yup
[12:33:15] <anonimasu> ew
[12:33:23] <Dallur> anonimasu: I know they are hell to sign up for but :P
[12:33:32] <anonimasu> I need to sell my identity to get my password back
[12:34:12] <Dallur> anonimasu: We all hate them, but this info is only on those forums :(
[12:36:36] <Dallur> bbl, lunch
[12:37:13] <anonimasu> I really wish you could to thc with a inductive sensor.
[12:38:19] <^eugenics> why ont?
[12:38:33] <^eugenics> I think Ive seen plenty of them
[12:38:51] <^eugenics> usually there is 3 sensors
[12:38:58] <lerneaen_hydra> thc?
[12:39:14] <^eugenics> torch height controller
[12:39:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[12:39:24] <^eugenics> for plasmacutting
[12:39:28] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[12:39:45] <^eugenics> lerneaen_hydra, I have a table :)
[12:40:31] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, cool
[12:46:34] <anonimasu> hm
[12:46:48] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: well, in that case im all set..
[12:46:57] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: I have analog sensors.. plenty of them..
[12:47:14] <^eugenics> ok, can be worth a test
[12:47:37] <anonimasu> though robin_sz said it wouldnt work without sensing the arc voltage..
[12:47:49] <^eugenics> there might be that the sensors freak out
[12:48:10] <^eugenics> when the arc is coming
[12:48:46] <^eugenics> maybe you need some electronics to handle that
[12:49:04] <anonimasu> I can do filtering in software..
[12:49:33] <^eugenics> anonimasu, google for thc with non arc voltage sensing
[12:49:49] <anonimasu> thc = hetracannabinol.. :D
[12:49:51] <anonimasu> try gogleing for thc ;)
[12:50:18] <^eugenics> :)
[12:51:09] <^eugenics> the computer can not come in contact with the sensors
[12:51:25] <^eugenics> you need a buffert for HF stuff
[12:51:47] <anonimasu> the sensors would be powered off a separate power supply
[12:51:51] <anonimasu> isolated from the other stuff..
[12:51:57] <^eugenics> and it must be senors made for the purpose
[12:52:18] <^eugenics> yep, that helps a little
[12:52:59] <anonimasu> well the sensors are emc protected..
[12:54:14] <^eugenics> try to compare them with sensors that are made for the purpose and try to make a conclution if it would work
[12:54:19] <anonimasu> hm.
[12:54:25] <alex_joni> anonimasu: but not emc2 protected
[12:54:41] <^eugenics> :D
[12:54:54] <anonimasu> lol
[12:56:11] <anonimasu> I can get them up to 1kV emc protected..
[12:56:25] <anonimasu> IEC-60255-5
[12:56:31] <^eugenics> but you will probably save time if you choose a design that been tested
[12:57:25] <^eugenics> cool, and their reading is not sensetive to magnetic distubances?
[12:57:45] <anonimasu> yep
[12:57:57] <anonimasu> strong magnetism dampens the output of the sensor..
[12:58:39] <anonimasu> let me quote..
[12:58:55] <^eugenics> jag har sett speciella sensorer frantagna for endamalet
[12:59:37] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: mm, around 700khz is a no zone as it's close to the internal oscilator of the sensors
[13:00:03] <anonimasu> strong magnetism atennuates the coil..
[13:01:17] <anonimasu> tittar på campbelldesigns thc sak..
[13:01:27] <anonimasu> fast, den verkar bara vara ställbar via panel..
[13:01:35] <^eugenics> yep
[13:01:39] <alex_joni> anonimasu: HF isn't that high
[13:01:57] <anonimasu> ah..
[13:02:07] <anonimasu> also I dont understand what they mean by strong magnetism..
[13:02:17] <alex_joni> 1 tesla
[13:02:35] <anonimasu> permanent and low frequency does not affect the sensors..
[13:03:01] <anonimasu> alex_joni: lol
[13:03:12] <anonimasu> i think we will go with one of thoose thc's..
[13:04:36] <anonimasu> or maybe the one dallur had..
[13:05:11] <^eugenics> I have that one, the know is quite sensetive
[13:05:21] <^eugenics> but it works
[13:05:40] <^eugenics> knob
[13:06:39] <anonimasu> hm ok
[13:09:21] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: I think it's a easy way out..
[13:11:13] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: you tried with a single rail right?
[13:21:17] <^eugenics> yep, but for me that did not work
[13:21:27] <^eugenics> make it steardy
[13:21:36] <^eugenics> sturdy
[13:22:49] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: did you use 2 rails spaced about 15cm apart?
[13:23:06] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: that kind of setup will take 450kg, before the rails start to deform..
[13:23:27] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: the thk app engineer that passed by yesterday said the same thing..
[13:24:03] <^eugenics> that works, I thought you where thinking of T or H construction
[13:24:22] <anonimasu> the thk app engineer would do it with a single rail..
[13:24:31] <anonimasu> :9
[13:24:34] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[13:24:47] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: the thing is that the mounting points/whatever you bolt it to needs to be sturdy as hell
[13:24:59] <^eugenics> yes
[13:25:16] <^eugenics> my frame and arm was too sloppy
[13:25:32] <anonimasu> the guy I talked to was like "you only need one meter Y in that setup?"
[13:25:33] <anonimasu> :D
[13:25:58] <^eugenics> ok
[13:26:28] <anonimasu> the thk rails he pointed at were really wide..
[13:27:23] <anonimasu> but im not going for thk..
[13:29:01] <^eugenics> they are expensive
[13:30:18] <awallin> hiwin rails from metallstore.de are reasonably priced... we looked at them when we bought rails, but ended up with rails form ebay
[13:30:46] <alex_joni> hi anders
[13:30:52] <awallin> alex_joni: hi
[13:31:01] <alex_joni> awallin: mind making some screenshots of the new widgets? :D
[13:31:08] <^eugenics> Hello guys
[13:31:21] <awallin> alex_joni: http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/01/more-pyvcp-widgets/
[13:32:09] <awallin> but I might make some better demo panel later
[13:32:52] <alex_joni> cool
[13:33:00] <alex_joni> I started a wiki page with screenshots..
[13:33:10] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screenshots
[13:33:55] <awallin> yep, I noticed. looks nice, although content is a bit varied, and some descriptions could be added
[13:34:26] <alex_joni> awallin: feel free :P
[13:34:31] <alex_joni> (kidding)
[13:35:01] <awallin> I haven't worked with classicladder at all, but I might write something about the other ones
[13:35:20] <alex_joni> awallin: oooh.. f500 ?
[13:35:26] <awallin> btw, is documentation alsow now branched, so that 2.1 docs are separate from HEAD ?
[13:35:36] <alex_joni> awallin: yes, it's branched
[13:36:26] <awallin> right. so I think writing some docs for pyvcp might be the next thing to do
[13:36:44] <awallin> and I'd like to be able to show stuff from the emc.status structure with pyvcp widgets
[13:36:57] <alex_joni> emc-pyvcp ? :D
[13:37:14] <alex_joni> most things done with widgets also appeal to emc, not necessarely to hal
[13:37:36] <awallin> maybe a component that polls the status structure, and outputs a whole lot of hal pins
[13:38:08] <awallin> that way, there are no major changes to pyvcp
[13:43:48] <awallin> yep, the more I think about it, that's an easy way to do it. a new program stat2hal which polls the status structure every 100ms and outputs a great number of HAL pins. It should be easy to write, copying mostly from AXIS' emcshow.py
[13:44:05] <alex_joni> emctop.py ?
[13:44:37] <awallin> yeah, that's the name of the program probably
[13:44:45] <alex_joni> you have some of the stats from halui
[13:44:52] <alex_joni> depends what you need
[13:45:03] <awallin> tool and part offsets would be nice
[13:45:24] <awallin> maybe also g-code line number, if that can be used for a progress meter
[13:45:24] <alex_joni> those are in iocontrol (tool at least), but offset aren't in stat afaik
[13:47:11] <alex_joni> current line is in EMC_TASK_STAT
[13:47:20] <alex_joni> int motionLine;// line motion is executing-- may lag
[13:47:20] <alex_joni> int currentLine;// line currently executing
[13:47:20] <alex_joni> int readLine;// line interpreter has read to
[13:47:52] <awallin> ok, would still need the total number of lines for a progress bar
[13:48:03] <alex_joni> there is tool number, tool prepped, and the tooltable in EMC_TOOL_STAT
[13:48:14] <alex_joni> so you can probably figure out all you need from that
[13:48:23] <awallin> these are C structures I assume ?
[13:48:27] <alex_joni> c++
[13:48:40] <alex_joni> emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.hh
[13:49:02] <alex_joni> look for "class EMC_*_STAT:"
[13:49:05] <awallin> I was thinking I would manage with the things from the emc python module's status structure
[13:49:22] <alex_joni> I was wondering if the py module has these
[13:49:34] <alex_joni> but if they exist in NML, then the pymodule can be made to have them aswell
[13:49:44] <alex_joni> would have been a PITA if they didn't exist in NML
[13:49:57] <awallin> emctop.py shows everything in the py module's status list
[13:50:36] <alex_joni> last I checked it wasn't the full emc stat
[13:50:40] <alex_joni> might be wrong here
[13:51:11] <awallin> jepler can probably add stuff to it if I ask nicely :)
[13:51:40] <alex_joni> again, I'm not sure HAL is the best way forthis
[13:51:58] <alex_joni> it can be for a number of cases
[13:53:24] <awallin> ok, now I'm suggesting it mostly because it's a very well defined existing way of interfacing between python and emc
[13:53:47] <awallin> but the python emc module does contain NML functions also, I just haven't used them
[13:54:19] <awallin> so if it's possible to poll emc about interesting stuff using NML commands, that could be one way?
[13:56:39] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, cradek: is there support for log-scale pyvcp objects? if not then that's something that may be good to have
[13:57:22] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: what makes you think those guys know anything about pyvcp? ;)
[13:57:34] <lerneaen_hydra> aren't they coding the backend stuff?
[13:58:03] <awallin> pyvcp is all mine mine mine
[13:58:09] <awallin> my precious
[13:58:16] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[13:58:18] <lerneaen_hydra> I see
[13:58:40] <lerneaen_hydra> I'd better ask you that question then ;)
[13:59:19] <awallin> log scale would not be that hard, for the bar and the meter widget for example
[13:59:32] <awallin> and scale
[13:59:42] <alex_joni> log scale for scale?
[13:59:43] <alex_joni> :D
[14:00:08] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO it would be nice for things that can be a large range of values
[14:00:19] <lerneaen_hydra> say power used or feedrate or something
[14:01:38] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: please add that to the TODO list on the pyvcp wiki page
[14:01:49] <lerneaen_hydra> sure :D
[14:02:35] <lerneaen_hydra> how was it you logged into the wiki again?
[14:02:54] <alex_joni> awallin: here's the best I got so far: http://www.robcon.ro/emc/IMG_2011-crop.jpg
[14:04:38] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: follow BasicSteps
[14:05:05] <awallin> alex_joni: nice. I had to enlarge mine by about 200% for the pic on the blog. what lens are you using in that pic?
[14:05:42] <alex_joni> 75-300
[14:06:02] <alex_joni> the cheap one :P
[14:06:18] <alex_joni> looking for a link
[14:07:13] <alex_joni> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=169267&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
[14:07:51] <awallin> what camera do you have? I have a 20D
[14:08:04] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01136075857/canon_75-300.jpg
[14:08:07] <alex_joni> 350D
[14:08:43] <awallin> ok, same sensor as mine I guess
[14:09:12] <skunkworks> alex_joni: how did you take the picture of your camera? ;)
[14:09:49] <alex_joni> skunkworks: http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/photography
[14:10:13] <alex_joni> skunkworks: at the bottom there are a few of my cams :D
[14:11:18] <alex_joni> awallin: yeah, I think it's the same sensor.. but I don't shoot in full size
[14:11:54] <skunkworks> alex_joni: looks like your bases are covered ;)
[14:12:40] <alex_joni> not by a long shot :P
[14:12:43] <alex_joni> you should see my wishlist
[14:12:45] <alex_joni> LOL
[14:12:53] <skunkworks> :)
[14:13:38] <alex_joni> I'm half-seriously thinking about this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8454&A=details&Q=&sku=319784&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
[14:13:44] <jepler> awallin, alex_joni: emctop doesn't display quite everything in the emc.stat object, and the emc.stat object doesn't have quite everything in the EMC__STAT structure.
[14:13:58] <jepler> it is not hard to add things to the emc.stat object
[14:13:59] <lerneaen_hydra> added to wiki
[14:14:08] <alex_joni> jepler: that's what I figured
[14:14:17] <awallin> alex_joni: you are on the right track. either L-zooms or primes is the way to go I think
[14:14:18] <jepler> if it is a simple scalar value (an integer or a float) then it is generally 1 line of code to add it
[14:15:11] <awallin> jepler: alex_joni: but is this a sensible way to do it, create HAL pins from the status structure? or could/should pyvcp query these things from emc with nml commands directly ?
[14:15:31] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: thanks.
[14:15:42] <alex_joni> awallin: it's a bit fuzzy for me :)
[14:15:58] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: is pyvcp in the EMC2 head or are you doing it off-site?
[14:16:01] <jepler> another option is for halui to expose the data
[14:16:03] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: it's in HEAD
[14:16:16] <alex_joni> most things you control by hal pins with pyvcp right now, could easily be controlled by NML
[14:16:19] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: you can see an example if you run the sim/lathe configuration from head (the feedsback spindle speed is displayed)
[14:16:34] <lerneaen_hydra> cool :)
[14:17:11] <alex_joni> awallin: I'm not sure I want to admit I can afford an L-zoom :D
[14:17:21] <alex_joni> probably because I can't
[14:18:35] <awallin> alex_joni: I got the 70-200/F4L and the 17-40/F4L over the past two years. hurts less when you spread out the cost...
[14:18:49] <alex_joni> IS?
[14:18:49] <awallin> and those are the cheapest L's available
[14:18:54] <awallin> no IS
[14:19:02] <alex_joni> oh, probably that's why :)
[14:19:58] <awallin> jepler: is there example code for how to do NML commands with the hal or emc python modules?
[14:21:01] <Dallur> I found a laser for adjusting my plasma table btw, they even sent it to me for free :D
[14:21:46] <Dallur> If any of you are in the market for lasers (for whatever you use lasers for) these guys seem really good: -> http://www.laserfuchs.de
[14:21:56] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: did you have a youtube video of your lathe, driven with emc ?
[14:22:02] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[14:22:05] <lerneaen_hydra> just a sec
[14:22:19] <alex_joni> awallin: it's on linuxcnc.org
[14:22:39] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=2&Itemid=13&lang=en
[14:22:44] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.youtube.com/v/MX4SWe8WFA4
[14:22:50] <awallin> alex_joni: ok, I was thinking to complement your recent 'screenshots' addition, we could have a list of videos on the wiki too
[14:23:27] <lerneaen_hydra> I really should make a new video
[14:23:40] <awallin> and did cradek have a video of thread-cutting ?
[14:23:41] <lerneaen_hydra> with more aggressive cuts, a centered tool, and threading
[14:24:04] <skunkworks> lerneaen_hydra: you have treading working also?
[14:24:05] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[14:24:09] <lerneaen_hydra> works great :D
[14:24:09] <skunkworks> nice
[14:24:15] <alex_joni> awallin: not that I know of
[14:24:24] <alex_joni> awallin: only pictures
[14:24:28] <skunkworks> you are using a non-quadurature encoder - correct?
[14:24:37] <lerneaen_hydra> I had to pester alex and cradek a while for some HAL help
[14:24:40] <alex_joni> awallin: that page on linuxcnc.org could easily fit more technical articles
[14:24:43] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, the counter module cradek made
[14:24:58] <alex_joni> awallin: <hint hint>
[14:25:21] <lerneaen_hydra> just a disc with holes and one opto-thingy (and an index one)
[14:25:21] <anonimasu> hm
[14:25:24] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: does youtube store the video 'forever' or does it get removed after a while ?
[14:25:34] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: afaik it's forever
[14:25:43] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: though they reserve the right to remove it
[14:25:46] <awallin> alex_joni: OR, we could think about the feed aggregator idea? ;)
[14:25:52] <alex_joni> :P
[14:25:59] <lerneaen_hydra> so it's probably best to host it yourself if it's a longterm thing
[14:26:17] <lerneaen_hydra> I have the original .avi movie (much better quality) if you're interested
[14:26:32] <Dallur> I suggest using google video instead, they host it forever and have better servers
[14:27:03] <lerneaen_hydra> you're still at the whim of google though
[14:27:15] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO better to host it yourself if possible
[14:27:19] <alex_joni> Dallur: the video is on linuxcnc.org too
[14:27:23] <alex_joni> not only youtube
[14:27:31] <alex_joni> so there's no issue there
[14:27:34] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: there are nice flash video player plugins for joomla
[14:27:47] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: I know, tried one, but didn't like it enough
[14:27:50] <alex_joni> I actually installed it
[14:27:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[14:29:21] <awallin> now I made a wiki page for videos. just the one entry for now... there's a mazak toolchange video I've seen somewhere...
[14:29:32] <alex_joni> yeah.. hang on
[14:31:53] <anonimasu> ordering a thc thing as soon as I get a reply
[14:34:10] <awallin> alex_joni: is it here http://www.cncgear.com/Files/
[14:34:10] <alex_joni> awallin: http://www.cncgear.com/Files/
[14:34:14] <alex_joni> ha
[14:34:44] <awallin> hrm, I don't have the codec for it, just a black screen with sound
[14:35:04] <alex_joni> the small one doesn't work afaik
[14:35:15] <awallin> is that a good place to host it, or could it be on linuxcnc.org
[14:35:24] <alex_joni> it's the same DH account
[14:36:12] <alex_joni> plenty space & bandwidth
[14:37:01] <awallin> ok, but 68 Mb is a bit hefty...
[14:37:10] <alex_joni> I know :)
[14:37:26] <alex_joni> too lazy to reencode it though
[14:38:28] <awallin> if and when my servo-mill get's up and running I'll try to contribute with some videos!
[14:38:41] <Dallur> anonimasu: you could also try talking directly to Jim Cullins at Sound Logic, It's my understanding that he makes the boards for Bob Campbell
[14:38:42] <skunkworks> cradeks servo thread cutting video is cool - but that would have to be re-encoded also
[14:38:55] <awallin> skunkworks: where is it?
[14:38:58] <anonimasu> Dallur: well, it's not a big issue
[14:38:59] <Dallur> anonimasu: and according to the info on Bob's web page he is the one that ships these
[14:39:21] <anonimasu> Dallur: your stuff seems like hard to hook up and configure :/
[14:39:23] <anonimasu> the emc stuff..
[14:39:23] <alex_joni> skunkworks: where is that?
[14:39:37] <skunkworks> my keychain drive ;) - I could put it on my website
[14:39:43] <alex_joni> could you?
[14:39:56] <alex_joni> or somewhere, I can put it on linuxcnc.org
[14:40:08] <Dallur> anonimasu: It's actually really easy to hook up and configure, all you need is 1 parallel port and about 1 day
[14:40:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: In any case I have already done all the EMC config required which you can just copy/paste
[14:41:04] <anonimasu> Dallur: im considering substituting your plc with a real plc..
[14:41:28] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm well some of the logic is in HAL, it's not all in the PLC
[14:41:39] <Dallur> anonimasu: you would have to move all the logic to PLC
[14:41:56] <anonimasu> well, I can do plc > hal..
[14:42:03] <anonimasu> and the other way
[14:42:13] <anonimasu> but that wont be realtime..
[14:42:52] <alex_joni> bbl guys
[14:43:18] <anonimasu> Dallur: I guess using your config would be a simple solution.
[14:44:02] <Dallur> anonimasu: it might be the simplest solution, but it depends on how feature rich you want the THC
[14:44:09] <anonimasu> minimal..
[14:44:13] <awallin> what's a reasonable bitrate to re-code the mazak video? divx suggests 780kbps
[14:44:48] <anonimasu> Dallur: what do you need really?
[14:44:52] <anonimasu> min height/max height..
[14:44:57] <anonimasu> and corner lock..
[14:45:14] <Dallur> anonimasu: and you need to pause gcode execution while striking an arc
[14:45:21] <skunkworks> alex_joni: http://www.electronicsam.com/video/threading.avi
[14:45:31] <skunkworks> fuzzy but you get the picture
[14:45:40] <awallin> skunkworks: thanks.
[14:45:53] <skunkworks> n/p
[14:45:59] <Dallur> anonimasu: and monitor the arc status and stop g-code if arc is extinguished, try to re-establish arc
[14:46:04] <anonimasu> Dallur: but that's atuomatic right?
[14:46:15] <Dallur> anonimasu: that's all done in software (config)
[14:46:27] <anonimasu> yeah..
[14:46:55] <anonimasu> Dallur: short question
[14:47:03] <anonimasu> why wouldnt a inductive analog sensor work for height?
[14:47:02] <Dallur> anonimasu: shoot
[14:47:42] <cradek> skunkworks: was that my video?
[14:47:50] <anonimasu> Dallur: I just dud
[14:47:52] <anonimasu> did..
[14:47:54] <jepler> awallin: mdi.py is a short example which both uses the status buffer (to get the machine's location) and the command buffer (to issue mdi commands)
[14:48:08] <awallin> cradek: yes I think so, but I can't play it (no codec...)
[14:48:24] <awallin> jepler: ok, I'll look at that
[14:48:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: I'm not 100% sure since I have not testing but assuming you get a "weld safe" analogue inductive sensor (which costs around 500-1000$) im not sure what kind of accuracy you could get
[14:48:56] <cradek> I forgot about it - what a terrible video :-)
[14:49:27] <skunkworks> cradek: yes that is your video - we need one threading at 60ipm ;)
[14:49:26] <awallin> cradek: remember what codec it was compressed with?
[14:49:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: You need an inductive sensor even though you have that THC btw, the inductive sensor is used for the inital height sensing before striking the arc
[14:50:01] <anonimasu> Dallur: all sensors are like that..
[14:50:10] <cradek> Selected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4)
[14:50:11] <anonimasu> atleast the ones in my catalog..
[14:50:17] <anonimasu> Dallur: and much cheaper..
[14:50:17] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: it's mpeg4 based
[14:50:24] <anonimasu> 1kV emc protection..
[14:50:33] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: so quicktime would play it?
[14:50:38] <lerneaen_hydra> probably SP, so that would make it playable with a divx/xvid player
[14:50:49] <Dallur> anonimasu: 1kv is only 1000v, HF is 20-30 kV !
[14:50:49] <cradek> skunkworks: it looks like it's threading pretty fast actually
[14:50:51] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I'm not sure if they ship with that codec
[14:51:05] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: it takes a lot of passes though
[14:51:13] <lerneaen_hydra> and you can't really see the threads ;)
[14:51:25] <cradek> yes, focus would have been nice
[14:51:48] <lerneaen_hydra> webcam?
[14:51:53] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: you can see the deflection already - it can't cut any heavier
[14:51:55] <anonimasu> that much?
[14:52:01] <anonimasu> :)
[14:52:07] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup, at least with Thermal Dynamics
[14:52:17] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: that's true
[14:52:24] <cradek> need to cut larger bar, or use a tailstock
[14:52:38] <lerneaen_hydra> it's easy to forget that it's diameter^3
[14:52:39] <cradek> it was actually walking up over the tool - you can hear it
[14:53:42] <alex_joni> skunkworks: thx
[14:53:43] <cradek> I think this is just under 60ipm - compare the threading pass with the jog, which is 60
[14:53:47] <awallin> any idea where to get the codec for that?
[14:53:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: it's nasty, isolating all the circuits is a real pain, and don't even dream about using any unshielded cables for motors or any other part
[14:53:59] <alex_joni> awallin: what platform?
[14:54:02] <cradek> awallin: comes with mplayer
[14:54:11] <awallin> alex_joni: winXP
[14:54:21] <alex_joni> ace mega codecs always works
[14:54:39] <awallin> ok, I'll try that
[14:54:48] <skunkworks> took me a bit to find the codec to run on xp media player.
[14:54:58] <Dallur> anonimasu: you can get plasma torches that don't need HF though
[14:55:10] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: ack ack ack
[14:55:15] <skunkworks> I had installed some codec pack and it worked finally. (but it was worth the work)
[14:55:17] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:55:27] <lerneaen_hydra> codec packs != good
[14:55:32] <lerneaen_hydra> bad bad bad
[14:55:47] <cradek> I wish it were focused, darnit.
[14:55:50] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: works for me
[14:56:07] <alex_joni> awallin: http://www.free-codecs.com/ACE_Mega_CoDecS_Pack_download.htm
[14:56:09] <lerneaen_hydra> you get lots of nastyness where one tries to take preceedance over the other
[14:56:11] <awallin> alex_joni: here is the mazak video at 300 kbps, would you put it on linuxcnc.org? http://el-servo.physics.helsinki.fi/personal/awallin/mazak_300kbps.avi
[14:56:20] <lerneaen_hydra> ffdshow on the other hand... :)
[14:56:22] <awallin> is about 5 Mb
[14:56:34] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.free-codecs.com/download_soft.php?d=2719&s=50
[14:57:24] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/ACEMCP603PRO.exe
[14:58:07] <awallin> alex_joni: nice, I get about 800 kbps to your server!
[14:58:12] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra fights with alex_joni
[14:58:39] <alex_joni> awallin: I get about 7MB/sec from here :D
[14:58:44] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra is impaled by a 5mm endmill
[14:58:47] <lerneaen_hydra> oh no!
[14:59:01] <lerneaen_hydra> 'tis but a flesh wound!
[14:59:54] <paragon36> Anyone know of a good source for L298 or an alternative (in the uk)?
[15:00:18] <lerneaen_hydra> farnell?
[15:00:41] <lerneaen_hydra> (check if digikey and/or mouser are available in the UK too)
[15:00:48] <paragon36> Yep been there £2.50 each not a bad price but minium order of £20
[15:00:51] <alex_joni> awallin: http://www.linuxcnc.org/movies/
[15:01:07] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[15:01:13] <awallin> alex_joni: great, you are quick!
[15:01:13] <lerneaen_hydra> check digikey/mouser then
[15:01:33] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not sure if they ship to the UK without prohibitive shipping though
[15:01:44] <tomp> re enncoders: if you use mencoder, then use thier bundles http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/
[15:01:52] <paragon36> Ill have a look
[15:02:09] <paragon36> thx lerneaen
[15:02:39] <lerneaen_hydra> np
[15:03:27] <alex_joni> paragon36: doesn't farnell have them?
[15:03:31] <anonimasu> Dallur: well, my plasma does pilot arc start..
[15:03:53] <alex_joni> anonimasu: still.. there's HF for the pilot
[15:04:08] <anonimasu> alex_joni: question is _if_ it's bad..
[15:04:12] <awallin> ACE doesn't help either, still can't play cradeks threading video
[15:04:16] <anonimasu> well, im buying a thc. plug and pray..
[15:04:43] <Dallur> anonimasu: what kind of plasma do you have ?
[15:05:07] <anonimasu> a saf zip 3.0
[15:06:10] <Dallur> anonimasu: ok, I got a list I have been making at home which lists all plasma units and respective torches
[15:06:35] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: which app are you using to play the file?
[15:06:36] <Dallur> anonimasu: I can check what kind of torch is on your machine
[15:06:51] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: either windows media player, or divx player
[15:07:09] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I'm not sure if they look in the VFW library
[15:07:22] <Dallur> anonimasu: and see what kind of HF is required if any, sometimes you can just disconnect the HF or turn it off for machine applications
[15:07:37] <awallin> can't someone just re-code it into something generic, like divx ?
[15:07:40] <lerneaen_hydra> could you test with say http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/ <-- that app?
[15:07:46] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: it is divx
[15:08:07] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not sure what the fourCC code is, but the codec is definetly from the divx family
[15:08:12] <Dallur> anonimasu: but that means you have to dip your torch really close to the work piece when striking the arc, which will increase the chances of blowing material up into the torch and decrease tip life considerably
[15:08:29] <alex_joni> vidsFMP4
[15:08:41] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: so if you open it in virtualdub, could you easily recode it?
[15:08:47] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: yeah
[15:08:57] <alex_joni> lol, first couple of bytes: [= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer junk data! =][= MPlayer
[15:09:06] <lerneaen_hydra> you'l get a quality kiss though
[15:09:13] <lerneaen_hydra> *loss
[15:09:20] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: don't screw up the focus! haha
[15:09:39] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: oh shush, you
[15:09:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads home
[15:09:49] <cradek> it's an embarassing video anyway
[15:09:51] <alex_joni> later guys
[15:09:51] <cradek> bye
[15:09:56] <awallin> bye alex
[15:10:15] <lerneaen_hydra> bye
[15:10:23] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: I can reecode the movie if you want
[15:10:32] <lerneaen_hydra> reencode
[15:10:52] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: that would be great!
[15:11:43] <anonimasu> Dallur: well, with a thc controller it's a non issue..
[15:11:53] <anonimasu> Dallur: yeah please do that
[15:11:57] <anonimasu> it's a hand torch..
[15:12:05] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: use some "standard" divx settings, and I'm sure I'll be able to see it
[15:12:09] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[15:12:12] <anonimasu> brb
[15:12:29] <lerneaen_hydra> I'll just take bogstandard mpeg4 SP and mp3 audio
[15:12:35] <anonimasu> :)
[15:12:36] <anonimasu> bork bork
[15:12:45] <lerneaen_hydra> bork!
[15:13:47] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: have you got a server?
[15:13:49] <anonimasu> ^_^
[15:13:54] <Dallur> bahh swedes are taking over the world, first Ikea, Volvo, then they sneak in things like Abba, before you know it we are doomed
[15:14:05] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: not one that you can log into...
[15:14:05] <lerneaen_hydra> bwahaha
[15:14:07] <lerneaen_hydra> our secret plan
[15:14:14] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: ok, I'll upload it to mine
[15:14:32] <awallin> oh, but we still got real Finnish products like Nokia and Linux...
[15:15:05] <Dallur> awallin: you guys got Nokia boots when you were young ?
[15:15:27] <Dallur> awallin: im thinking those will be high fashion wear in 10 years time :D
[15:15:41] <awallin> Dallur: sure, black ones. they still make them, but it's another company than the mobile phone maker
[15:16:05] <Dallur> awallin: hmm thought they were the same but got split up ?
[15:16:29] <awallin> Dallur: yes you are right, but the split might have been 20 years ago
[15:16:51] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: just a sec
[15:16:52] <awallin> they were making cables, fiber optic cables, car tyres, boots etc from rubber
[15:16:58] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: standing by...
[15:19:24] <awallin> Dallur: you got any videos of your machine ?
[15:19:43] <Dallur> awallin: yup, just a sec
[15:20:24] <Dallur> awallin: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=rugludallur
[15:20:56] <awallin> oh, many!
[15:21:45] <Dallur> awallin: most are not plasma related, but other silly stuff I have done
[15:22:20] <awallin> Dallur: is the lathe also emc controlled?
[15:23:04] <Dallur> awallin: nope, it's just manual and the work involved in converting it is just to much
[15:23:47] <Dallur> awallin: although I bet it would be fun, to many hobbies to little time
[15:24:05] <awallin> Dallur: so there's just one vide of actual plasma cutting ?
[15:24:42] <Dallur> awallin: don't know, might be, I have not uploaded anything in a while, and I don't think any of them include the THC
[15:25:01] <awallin> ok...
[15:25:46] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: how's the re encoding going?
[15:25:52] <lerneaen_hydra> well, it's done
[15:26:03] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm adding support for .avi in my webserver
[15:26:06] <lerneaen_hydra> so I can upload it
[15:26:20] <awallin> ok
[15:26:33] <lerneaen_hydra> looks like I'm going to have to reboot it
[15:26:40] <lerneaen_hydra> just a few more moments
[15:28:50] <lerneaen_hydra> crap
[15:28:58] <lerneaen_hydra> now I've borked my webserver
[15:28:59] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[15:29:08] <lerneaen_hydra> that wasn't so smart of me
[15:30:29] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[15:30:31] <lerneaen_hydra> there
[15:30:58] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: http://lerneaenhydra.shacknet.nu/images/files_temp/mazak_new.avi
[15:31:40] <awallin> thanks, downlaoding now...
[15:31:47] <lerneaen_hydra> speed?
[15:31:51] <lerneaen_hydra> should be 80-ish
[15:32:40] <awallin> yep, something around 80
[15:32:42] <lerneaen_hydra> nice
[15:33:30] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: er... it was not the mazak I was having trouble with, it was cradek's threading.avi
[15:33:35] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[15:33:36] <lerneaen_hydra> right
[15:33:40] <lerneaen_hydra> damn
[15:33:41] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[15:33:45] <lerneaen_hydra> I'll recode that one too ;)
[15:33:45] <awallin> sorry.
[15:34:08] <cradek> strange - they both say mpeg4 for me
[15:34:26] <awallin> cradek: I get sound in your video, but no picture
[15:35:13] <lerneaen_hydra> the threading file seems to have minor corruption
[15:35:16] <lerneaen_hydra> in the index file
[15:35:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g:
[15:35:19] <CIA-8> When a pin or parameter does not have documentation, use the .TQ macro to
[15:35:19] <CIA-8> typeset it closer to the previous item, instead of leaving a space. This
[15:35:19] <CIA-8> makes the result nicer when one documentation string applies to several
[15:35:19] <CIA-8> items (e.g., din-0 and din-0-not)
[15:35:25] <lerneaen_hydra> that may be why awallin is having touble opening it
[15:36:19] <cradek> I don't get any complaints about that: cff4956895a2984931ee55cedbbefb3d threading.avi
[15:36:26] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: documentation improvements: mention which physical pin is associated with each set of HAL pins
[15:36:33] <lerneaen_hydra> my video editing app complained about it
[15:37:08] <lerneaen_hydra> http://lerneaenhydra.shacknet.nu/images/files_temp/threadingnew.avi
[15:38:56] <lerneaen_hydra> worky?
[15:39:32] <awallin> wait..
[15:39:39] <awallin> yes!
[15:40:04] <lerneaen_hydra> whee
[15:40:09] <awallin> thanks.
[15:40:21] <lerneaen_hydra> what was mpeg4 SP and pcm audio
[15:40:24] <lerneaen_hydra> np
[15:40:41] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: will your server be up for a while?
[15:40:45] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[15:40:49] <awallin> like forever?
[15:40:59] <lerneaen_hydra> I would hope so
[15:41:20] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not sure I can keep that file there forever, I'd want to move it to a different location if so
[15:42:38] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: if you move it, could you also change http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
[15:42:44] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, sure
[15:43:25] <awallin> alex_joni might put it on linuxcnc.org later also
[15:45:10] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: further formatting improvements
[15:45:56] <awallin> jepler: what is comp.g ?
[15:46:21] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: that may be good, I'm a bit starved by bandwidth to my server
[15:48:25] <jepler> awallin: comp.g is source for the 'comp' preprocessor. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/comp/index.html "comp: a tool for creating HAL modules"
[15:48:50] <jepler> awallin: in the file comp.pg the top part is a grammar written in the "yapps" language, and the rest is Python
[15:48:59] <jepler> comp reads a ".comp file" and outputs C source code
[15:50:22] <jepler> er, "the file comp.g"
[15:50:39] <awallin> jepler: thanks for the explanation
[15:52:02] <jepler> you're welcome
[15:52:54] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin, anonimasu, other borkborkbork people: you'll like this! www.pungkuk.com
[15:52:55] <tomp> can i web browse emc2-head on cvs? how?
[15:53:21] <SWPadnos> http:/cvs.linuxcnc.org/
[15:53:39] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/
[15:54:04] <tomp> thanks
[15:54:09] <SWPadnos> sure
[15:56:56] <anonimasu> Dallur: I just did some cuts..
[15:57:02] <anonimasu> Dallur: thc dosent seem to be important.
[15:57:10] <tomp> SWPadnos: I think that isnt head or it's stale (weeks old) I was looking for recent (days old) commits
[15:57:33] <anonimasu> Dallur: maybe to get a super good edge..
[15:57:49] <anonimasu> Dallur: but even though we cut 30mm iron it didnt seem to matter that much
[15:58:33] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm that would be very different from what I experienced
[15:59:23] <awallin> tomp: it does show my latest pyvcp update, 19hours ago
[15:59:34] <awallin> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2
[15:59:35] <Dallur> anonimasu: I mainly had problems with very thin material (sub mm) when it warped
[16:00:20] <Dallur> anonimasu: but in any case you will need to rig up some sort of amp meter to detect if the torch is on (unless your machines has an ARC OK signal out)
[16:01:15] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra gasp
[16:01:31] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin and anonimasu didn't have any reaction to the URL
[16:01:35] <tomp> awallin: weird. for me it shows 4days on pyvcp.py http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/user_comps/
[16:01:39] <lerneaen_hydra> very suspicious
[16:02:05] <tomp> time warp?
[16:02:27] <awallin> yesterdays work was here: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/lib/python/
[16:03:06] <tomp> awallin: yes, it'
[16:03:28] <tomp> s there, dunno why it wasn't over in the other place... thanks
[16:04:32] <tomp> uh... python src in lib? i didnt think to look there, but yes, python files (modules) are like libraries
[16:05:44] <anonimasu> Dallur: yeah, that's to be expected..
[16:06:10] <anonimasu> Dallur: we will cut 10mm stuff
[16:06:39] <Dallur> anonimasu: I started off building the whole thing thinking that I could do without a THC, I did several cuts and tried things and in the end I gave up, the arc just wasn't stable enough for me in the long run
[16:07:20] <Dallur> anonimasu: but if it works for you without the THC, and if the cut quality does not need to very excellent I would not bother with the THC
[16:07:31] <skunkworks> plus some of the material that you will cut will warp
[16:07:38] <Dallur> s/very excellent/excellent/G
[16:08:08] <Dallur> anonimasu: what kind of standoff are you using ?
[16:08:12] <anonimasu> Dallur: hm, what kind of machine are you using?
[16:08:26] <anonimasu> Dallur: we cut free handed..
[16:08:31] <anonimasu> varying the height..
[16:09:39] <tomp> re pungkuk, they make good wire
[16:09:42] <Dallur> anonimasu: im using a Thermal Dynamics Signature PAK 1000XR
[16:09:50] <anonimasu> hm ok
[16:10:12] <Dallur> anonimasu: http://dallur.com/index.php?id=117
[16:15:14] <anonimasu> this machine isnt too old..
[16:15:15] <anonimasu> :)
[16:16:03] <anonimasu> Dallur: we will see about it :)
[16:17:31] <Dallur> anonimasu: my config isn't that well tested in any case so you might be better off converting to THC in a couple of months when I have tested everything and such
[16:36:05] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur: any reason why you're going for a bermuda rig rather than something else?
[16:36:23] <lerneaen_hydra> say luff or junk rig
[16:37:44] <jepler> anyone know what this vitec chip is on the 7i37 boards? it seems to be on the output-from-pc side. package says "14Z3203". vitec has a transformer with the prefix "14Z" but a transformer alone doesn't make much sense to me
[16:38:26] <SWPadnos> I think it's a 1:2:2 transformer to convert 5V to +- 10V
[16:39:31] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: pointing performance is the main reason
[16:39:31] <SWPadnos> oh wait - that's a different one :)
[16:40:39] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur: what are you going to use her for, recreational sailing or competitions?
[16:40:45] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: If I had to choose another rig due to handing concerns I would probably go with a Gaff rig, but even the gaff has more weight up high and not as good pointing
[16:41:01] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: long distance crusing (liveaboard)
[16:41:36] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I see
[16:41:37] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: but I plan on doing plenty of sailing the wrong way around (east to west) so pointing is important :D
[16:41:53] <lerneaen_hydra> it just seems to me that a bermuda rig is a real pita to run
[16:41:57] <lerneaen_hydra> pointing?
[16:42:12] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: sail closer to the wind direction (more into the wind)
[16:42:16] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right
[16:42:41] <lerneaen_hydra> that makes things a lot more difficult
[16:42:46] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: I'm going with furling for both front sails and in boom for the main
[16:43:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[16:43:08] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: everything can be done from the cockpit singlehanded
[16:43:16] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, cool
[16:43:25] <lerneaen_hydra> winches or blocks?
[16:43:33] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: winches, impossible to use blocks with this size sails
[16:43:50] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: and rope clutches for everything
[16:43:56] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nasty
[16:44:35] <lerneaen_hydra> my father is currently adding (three) junk rigs to a previously built boat
[16:44:48] <lerneaen_hydra> and so far everything is controllable with just blocks and hand power
[16:45:11] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: that's the great thing with a junk rig, and this is the traditional reason for having many sails
[16:45:45] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[16:45:55] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: but when it comes to performance a sloop is always going to win, but for most cruisers they spend 50 days at anchor and 3 sailing, performance really isn't an issue then
[16:46:26] <lerneaen_hydra> exactly
[16:46:38] <lerneaen_hydra> this is more slow-plodding than anything else
[16:46:47] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: and the scary fact regarding the sailing time is that about 40-50% is done with the engine
[16:46:50] <lerneaen_hydra> and the lack of a real keel makes things even more difficult
[16:47:35] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: people are to impatient, they always have deadlines and then they turn on the engine
[16:48:35] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur: http://lerneaenhydra.shacknet.nu/images/files_temp/img_2464.jpg
[16:49:13] <lerneaen_hydra> masts are telescoping, so you can reach the top when they're retracted with a short ladder or if you stand on the struts
[16:49:18] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: that's a liveaboard if I ever seen one :)
[16:49:32] <lerneaen_hydra> indeed it is :)
[16:49:42] <lerneaen_hydra> quite a few years too :)
[16:50:18] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: any special rationale for going with steel ?
[16:50:27] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, it's aluminum
[16:50:33] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC 1/4"
[16:51:03] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: ohh nice
[16:51:04] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't recall the thickness of the stringers or bulkheads
[16:51:19] <lerneaen_hydra> (I didn't build it, my father did)
[16:51:27] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: feels like a shame to paint it though
[16:51:44] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, well the bottom had to be painted anyway
[16:52:02] <lerneaen_hydra> we're going to repaint it soon hopefully
[16:52:14] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: yup, that's the problem, but I have seen some remarkable looking alu boats which clear topsides
[16:52:39] <lerneaen_hydra> the bottompaint is practially gone and some bits of the deck paint are chipping off (probably bad primer)
[16:52:40] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: sandblast to bare white and epoxy or ?
[16:52:55] <lerneaen_hydra> IIRC it was only primed and epoxied
[16:53:10] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't remember that well as I was quite young then
[16:53:17] <lerneaen_hydra> 8-9 or so
[16:53:51] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: tough to find good antifouling in the EU now, tritin is outlawed and copper will make your alu boat disappear very fast :P
[16:54:08] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, fortunately we have a can from the US ;)
[16:54:17] <lerneaen_hydra> enough for a few coats at least
[16:54:52] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: nice, although from what I understood last year it was possible to get special permits for aluminum vessels
[16:55:06] <lerneaen_hydra> oh? that would be very nice
[16:55:59] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: some EU directive somewhere had a clause that if you had a alu boat you could still use tritin as long as ...
[16:56:06] <lerneaen_hydra> ooh, nice
[16:56:24] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe I can get a hold of new cans when it has to be repainted again
[16:56:25] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: at least worth checking it
[16:56:28] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[16:57:17] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: a couple of months ago thought I had a really nice conversation with a guy from Hempel (they make a lot of antifouling) and he told me that the new breed of nano scale smooth paint is really coming into it's own
[16:57:31] <anonimasu> Dallur: oh, that's way too late..
[16:57:57] <anonimasu> Dallur: in 3 months I'll have all my parts.. cut..
[16:58:06] <Dallur> anonimasu: ohh :P
[16:58:08] <anonimasu> 5 weeks that is..
[16:58:10] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur: that sounds very plausible
[16:58:27] <anonimasu> Dallur: wondered why im going for prefab raild and stuff?
[16:58:27] <anonimasu> :D
[16:58:28] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: right now he told me that they aren't recommending it for anything that goes slower than 10 knots
[16:59:01] <Dallur> anonimasu: Are you wondering or do I wonder ? :D
[16:59:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, hopefully they'll manage to make one for more slow-going vessels
[16:59:09] <anonimasu> youy might be..
[16:59:21] <lerneaen_hydra> she only does 7 knots or so
[16:59:33] <lerneaen_hydra> (27HP diesel)
[17:00:47] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: he told me that in the next 10 years this sort of paint will start popping up in the recreational boating as the speed requirement comes down
[17:01:24] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: but it's way better because it can last up to 8 years! and has less drag !
[17:02:24] <lerneaen_hydra> ooh
[17:02:29] <lerneaen_hydra> smoother surface too?
[17:03:35] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: yup, it's a bit like teflon, imagine coating the bottom of your boat with high grade teflon :P
[17:04:08] <lerneaen_hydra> do you know if it is hydrophobic?
[17:05:00] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: not sure but I would expect it to be
[17:05:26] <Dallur> lerneaen_hydra: that would be one of the best ways to keep marine life off a surface
[17:05:34] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[17:05:40] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:05:47] <anonimasu> that would rock :D
[17:05:49] <Dallur> bbl, need to pick up a couple of things and head home
[17:06:00] <anonimasu> Dallur: got net at home?
[17:06:01] <lerneaen_hydra> would be nice for speedboats too, once you get an air bubble underneath it might "live" longer
[17:06:24] <anonimasu> laters!
[17:06:30] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup :D
[17:17:01] <paragon36> Hello Chaps... I now this is off topic but I thought I ask just the same. Does anyone know how to add a custom icon to be used in the top panel like for instance the the small EMC icon? I added a gif of eagle (schematic) in /usr/share/pixmaps but when I browse this with create launcher it does not appear!
[17:17:54] <jepler> It may have to be a ".png" file, not ".gif"
[17:18:35] <jepler> when installing emc2, it doesn't look like we take any action besides placing the .png file in /usr/share/pixmaps
[17:19:08] <paragon36> Yes that may explain it ... most of them are! Ill have to convert it can the gimp convert gifs to png's?
[17:19:37] <cradek> 'convert icon.gif icon.png'
[17:19:39] <jepler> yes, it can -- load the image, "save as", and use a .png extension
[17:19:47] <jepler> or install the 'imagemagick' package and use the commandline cradek just gave
[17:20:05] <paragon36> OK thanks Chaps!
[17:29:47] <paragon36> FYI The gif did work but I had to restart the 'add to panel' completly for it to see it.
[17:30:25] <paragon36> Off Home catch you later!
[17:36:49] <lerman_______> lerman_______ is now known as lerman
[17:46:26] <jepler> I wonder if the way the 1A outputs on the 7i37 work is something like this: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/isol.png
[17:47:26] <jepler> there are 2 NORs available before the isolation; an R, a C, an unidentified SOT-23 device (my diode), and a power transistor after isolation
[17:50:38] <SWPadnos> damn. I can't find my mangifying glass
[17:50:56] <jepler> I just take off my glasses. seems to work OK.
[17:51:04] <SWPadnos> maybe I should put some on
[17:51:20] <SWPadnos> I think that SOT-23 device is a diode - I don't see any connection on the third leg
[17:51:32] <jepler> yes I didn't see one either
[17:51:40] <SWPadnos> unless it's underneath the part
[17:52:08] <jepler> I guess it is a 4-layer board, isn't it...
[17:52:16] <lerneaen_hydra> does anyone know the resolution of the 5i20 dac?
[17:52:18] <SWPadnos> nope. 2-layer
[17:52:24] <SWPadnos> 10-bit
[17:52:32] <SWPadnos> (in the default config)
[17:52:46] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: the pwm is 10-bit
[17:52:57] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[17:53:11] <lerneaen_hydra> is there any ADC in it?
[17:53:15] <lerneaen_hydra> (input)
[17:53:28] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: nope, it's all digital
[17:53:48] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, since there are so many inputs I guess you could use some for an ADC if you wanted to
[17:54:28] <SWPadnos> you could add a parallel or serial ADC, but you'd need to change the FPGA config (or write a dumb IO HAL driver)
[17:57:44] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[17:58:02] <jepler> ooh lunchtime
[17:58:05] <awallin> nobody found more than those four emc videos ?
[17:59:22] <lerneaen_hydra> awallin: I'm hoping to make some within a week or so
[17:59:55] <lerneaen_hydra> hopefully one video with normal cuts, radii, and (multiple-started) threading
[18:00:39] <awallin> lerneaen_hydra: sounds interesting, let us know when you have something
[18:01:02] <lerneaen_hydra> sure thing
[18:10:47] <SWPadnos> hey - it is 4 layer. I didn't see that the planes are internal
[18:15:01] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: maybe there should be a developer wish list for the mesa firmware options :)
[18:15:13] <SWPadnos> there's a wiki ... :)
[18:15:35] <skunkworks> like step gererator - up/down option for the servo setup..
[18:15:48] <skunkworks> I was thinking of starting that - would that be ok?
[18:15:59] <SWPadnos> OK by me. I can delete it if I don't like it ;)
[18:18:37] <skunkworks> I just had vigi chili from a can.. Eww
[18:18:41] <skunkworks> vegi
[18:25:52] <fenn> wow "comp" is super neato
[18:29:27] <awallin> skunkworks: what other features would you like on the m5i20?
[18:31:18] <eholmgren> ewww
[18:39:51] <fenn> realtime image processing for part orientation? too much to ask? :P
[18:40:00] <fenn> you wouldnt even have to clamp it
[18:41:26] <skunkworks> awallin: right now all I really need is an up/down drive output for directly running an h-bridge. It is setup currently to run pwm+direction.
[18:41:43] <skunkworks> (not that I couldn't change that with a few logic chips.
[18:41:46] <skunkworks> )
[18:44:44] <awallin> skunkworks: ok, did you have your own H-bridge design ? so you drive two transistors with one pwm signal (up) and two transistors with the other pwm signal (down) ?
[18:48:09] <awallin> the inmarsat guy again ;)
[18:48:57] <skunkworks> awallin: yes.. in effect. I am usning 2 ir2111 half bridge drive ic's to drive 4 mosfets.
[18:51:11] <Rugludallur> awallin: @home I can make my own reverse dns :D
[18:51:44] <skunkworks> awallin: take this with a grain of salt.. the componants are not correct.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/eaglesch.JPG
[18:54:48] <skunkworks> and it has some mistakes in it - now that I look at it :)
[18:55:39] <awallin> did you already get to try it?
[18:56:39] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/sinks.JPG
[18:56:56] <A-L-P-H-A> big sink
[18:57:02] <A-L-P-H-A> for tiny to220 parts
[18:57:14] <skunkworks> they are not to220
[18:57:14] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe they're not to220 parts
[18:57:17] <A-L-P-H-A> but close
[18:59:28] <awallin> can you drive it with something else while you are waiting for the new m5i20 configs?
[19:00:28] <skunkworks> RIght now I am driving it with the printer port. Next will be the pluto.
[19:01:10] <awallin> oh, you got both the pluto and a mesa card? for two machines, or do you just collect cnc hardware for fun? ;)
[19:01:11] <skunkworks> work the bugs out with the pluto - cheap if there is an oops. then switch over to the mesa board.
[19:01:23] <awallin> right.
[19:01:26] <skunkworks> you can never have too much sutff
[19:01:57] <skunkworks> or stuff
[19:02:28] <skunkworks> we have a bunch of machines we can convert to newer cnc controls
[19:03:10] <skunkworks> it will all get used. This is my first time playing with servos - really excited.
[19:04:55] <skunkworks> this is what the mesa board is going to be used for http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[19:08:52] <awallin> skunkworks: wow, you sure have a lot of machines
[19:09:16] <skunkworks> some people have boats
[19:09:21] <awallin> :)
[19:10:48] <tomp> fenn: here's a robot 'feeling' an object into a pocket (instead of using visual feedback it uses force sensing ) http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/rob/download/res/blockbothdivx.avi
[19:13:32] <jepler> fenn: yeah I think 'comp' really takes the pain out of writing a new realtime component -- you can get right to the important stuff
[19:13:57] <lerneaen_hydra> tomp: hmm, cool
[19:13:58] <jepler> fenn: you might be interested in this too: http://axis.unpy.net/01163779208
[19:18:44] <tomp> jepler: the emc2 innovations come too fast :( tt2comp is a soft PEEL dangit! i can chuck my ICT books & programmers
[19:19:14] <jepler> "soft PEEL"?
[19:19:36] <tomp> programable pal
[19:19:46] <tomp> re-programmable
[19:20:05] <jepler> ah
[19:22:36] <jepler> I never worked with hardware PALs but I did read about them in Art of Electronics sime time ago
[19:22:41] <jepler> some time
[19:23:28] <fenn> sure if you dont mind being limited to 100khz or so
[19:23:28] <lerneaen_hydra> anyone recall if there was an eagle-to-gcode app somewhere?
[19:23:33] <ds3> morning
[19:24:08] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/
[19:24:22] <jepler> you need drill.cfg, singlesided.gpar, and gcode.ulp
[19:24:30] <jepler> the first two files must be customized for your machine
[19:24:36] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra hasn't done eagle
[19:24:45] <lerneaen_hydra> but I assume they're plugins of some kind?
[19:24:59] <jepler> in the eagle board editor, you hit the button marked "ulp" and then select gcode.ulp from the file browser
[19:25:04] <jepler> answer some prompts, and it writes a .ngc file
[19:25:07] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[19:25:11] <lerneaen_hydra> simple enough
[19:25:16] <jepler> some day I should write up a page of instructions
[19:25:28] <fenn> ulp is a scripting languge
[19:26:54] <fenn> hmm.. i guess i dont think in truth tables
[19:27:07] <jepler> you might also want this, which optimizes (reduces the distance of G0 moves) in gcode.ulp's output: http://axis.unpy.net/downloads/01103508580
[19:27:56] <jepler> fenn: me either really, but tt2comp was fun to write anyway
[19:27:58] <lerneaen_hydra> does that program automagically do the "use endmill for roughing, and V bit for fine stuff, finally drill holes" stuff?
[19:28:25] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes
[19:28:31] <lerneaen_hydra> neato
[19:28:51] <jepler> it also uses an endmill to cut out the board, and makes holes bigger than your end-mill diameter with that tool and a helical cut
[19:29:20] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not following you...
[19:30:03] <Jymmmm> lol... "<lerneaen_hydra> I'm not touching you..."
[19:30:22] <jepler> which part -- the helical cut hole?
[19:30:30] <lerneaen_hydra> Jymmmm: ... wtf?
[19:30:42] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: the "makes holes bigger than your end-mill diameter with that tool and a helical cut"
[19:31:32] <ds3> are the PCB milling chips as bad as using abrasives on a mill?
[19:31:35] <Jymmmm> lerneaen_hydra: When you said not following, it immediately remined me of two lil kids one putting a finger close to sibling and then saying "I'm not touching you"
[19:32:12] <lerneaen_hydra> Jymmmm: haha
[19:32:26] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: if you have a 1/16" end-mill and a .130" hole in your eagle board, gcode.ulp will make that hole with the end-mill
[19:32:37] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, cool
[19:34:42] <jepler> (there are .130" hole on certain thru-hole db-25 and db-9 connectors)
[19:35:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[19:35:15] <lerneaen_hydra> how long do the endmills tend to last? long enough?
[19:35:35] <jepler> if cradek were here he'd say they last until I break them
[19:35:51] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[19:35:55] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, long enough
[19:36:03] <Jymmmm> If I were cradek, I'd start asking for a deposit
[19:36:04] <awallin> if you have carbide tooling and don't brake them they will last ok. but the tooling is not cheap, 10-20eur per bit
[19:36:12] <lerneaen_hydra> ack
[19:36:22] <lerneaen_hydra> that bad eh
[19:36:22] <jepler> yes you have to use the right tooling
[19:36:32] <lerneaen_hydra> correct tooling?
[19:36:38] <fenn> check amateur radio flea markets etc
[19:37:02] <Jymmmm> fenn be careful about those... most are drill bits and really used
[19:37:16] <fenn> i got a box of assorted carbide drills and endmills from harbor freight for $6.50, havent used them yet really tho
[19:37:32] <Jymmmm> fenn % of endmills in the box?
[19:37:42] <fenn> lemme check
[19:37:46] <Jymmmm> k
[19:38:31] <skunkworks> fenn: how did you like the box of copper clad boards you got?
[19:38:49] <fenn> er.. i havent used those either
[19:39:00] <fenn> about all i can say about them is they make my hands itchy when i pick them up
[19:39:06] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:39:33] <skunkworks> where they supposed to be a cirtain oz?
[19:39:50] <skunkworks> cirtain?
[19:39:56] <jepler> certain
[19:40:11] <skunkworks> that didn't look right either ;)
[19:40:17] <jepler> I'm certain it's right
[19:40:24] <jepler> unless it's: cretin
[19:40:25] <SWPadnos> certainly so
[19:40:35] <Jymmmm> brb
[19:40:41] <fenn> bah
[19:41:18] <lerneaen_hydra> what do you call people that can't code, but can read some code and generally know how the subsystem works?
[19:41:35] <fenn> fresh meat
[19:41:39] <lerneaen_hydra> ie enduser that's not a monkey
[19:42:07] <jepler> I prefer "future contributor"
[19:43:38] <Rugludallur> I like sysadmin
[19:44:09] <skunkworks> network admin
[19:45:16] <jepler> "clueful user"?
[19:45:27] <fenn> haha cluser
[19:45:27] <Rugludallur> Poweruser ?
[19:45:48] <lerneaen_hydra> cluser!
[19:45:51] <lerneaen_hydra> great
[19:45:51] <eholmgren> some sort of hydra?
[19:46:24] <fenn> argh everything in this picture is focused except the drill bits
[19:47:10] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn: perfect ;)
[19:49:05] <tomp> NaM not a monkey :)
[19:49:16] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[19:49:34] <lerneaen_hydra> that's about right
[19:49:43] <lerneaen_hydra> or even nacm
[19:49:47] <lerneaen_hydra> not a complete muppet
[19:53:37] <eholmgren> I'm terrified of muppets
[19:54:21] <awallin> i'm going home now, maybe back later, bye
[19:56:10] <Rugludallur> awallin:eugenics: I just sent you guys the schematics for basic THC boards :D
[19:56:41] <Rugludallur> wait, hmm it was anonimasu that was asking for the schematics (bonk)
[19:59:55] <lerneaen_hydra> bork
[19:59:57] <lerneaen_hydra> you mean
[20:01:47] <Rugludallur> lerneaen_hydra: bonk = I hit myself on the head to punish myself for my own stupidity
[20:02:10] <anonimasu> hm
[20:02:16] <anonimasu> Dallur: did you find the schematic?
[20:02:28] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: yup, just mailed it like 2 min ago
[20:02:39] <anonimasu> oh
[20:02:40] <anonimasu> nice!
[20:02:40] <anonimasu> :D
[20:02:48] <anonimasu> did you check the torch diagram?
[20:03:02] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: looking now, it's a pretty big list :P
[20:03:06] <anonimasu> 2hehe
[20:03:23] <anonimasu> I'll be back in a bit need to go lock the outside gate at work..
[20:07:14] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: I don't have the torch make for the ZIP 3.0 but I do have for 2.0 4.0 and 5.0
[20:07:35] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[20:08:18] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: http://pastebin.com/856162
[20:21:39] <lerneaen_hydra> Rugludallur: I know, I jsut had to ;)
[20:28:02] <anonimasu> ok?
[20:28:10] <anonimasu> odd
[20:28:23] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: got any idea which torch is on your machine ?
[20:29:09] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: Z 3.0 ?
[20:31:31] <Rugludallur> anonimasu: it is www.saf-airliquide.com/fr/prod_mater/ISEE/TORCHES/saf_plasma_air/Z2-0%20Z3-0.pdf
[20:39:28] <eholmgren> haha ... sweet
[20:39:32] <eholmgren> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
[20:39:59] <eholmgren> modded printer that you can feed copper clad directly into for photoresist
[20:40:36] <alex_joni> cool
[20:42:33] <lerneaen_hydra> cool
[20:45:10] <jepler> nah what you need is un-clad FR4 boards and an "ink" with suspended copper particles
[20:45:26] <lerneaen_hydra> that's cool ;)
[20:45:57] <jepler> print, dry, drill, and solder
[20:46:12] <jepler> the details of this "copper ink" are left as an exercise
[20:46:51] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[20:46:55] <lerneaen_hydra> insert miracle
[20:46:59] <Rugludallur> jepler: how about nano scale copper particles suspended in a gallium-indium solution ?
[20:48:06] <jepler> Rugludallur: ok but what about the verteron emissions from the trilithium matrix?
[20:48:48] <Rugludallur> jepler: the trilition matrix would only be used during the warm up sequence, not during the actual printing
[20:49:17] <jepler> oh right
[20:49:52] <Rugludallur> jepler: but for real you could actually use a gallium-indium solution in a printer cartridge, you would have to keep the cartridge at a temp. or about 80°C and the board would not withstand temps above that though
[20:53:02] <lerneaen_hydra> I wonder if you could use a laser printer-type mechanism to a better effect
[20:53:09] <lerneaen_hydra> with some mettalic powder
[20:53:12] <lerneaen_hydra> err
[20:53:14] <lerneaen_hydra> metallic
[20:53:29] <tomp> and a laser to sinter it would be a 3d printer
[20:53:39] <lerneaen_hydra> the fusing zone is around 170degrees
[20:53:45] <tomp> (give a z)
[21:00:52] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: bet it would suck too much heat (the copper underneath)
[21:00:58] <alex_joni> so it wouldn't harden
[21:02:07] <anonimasu> Dallur: yeah
[21:02:56] <anonimasu> that's right
[21:06:00] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: huh? just bare fiberglass and metal powder to fuse
[21:06:17] <alex_joni> somehow I doubt you can do that at 170 degrees
[21:06:50] <lerneaen_hydra> just expand on that tech to get you higher temps
[21:07:09] <alex_joni> at some point it gets problematic/expensive :)
[21:07:46] <alex_joni> industrial PCB's are still done by gluing a copper, then etching the extra away.. right?
[21:08:59] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm not sure actually
[21:09:08] <lerneaen_hydra> they probably really want to not have to etch
[21:12:25] <tomp> maybe fill cartridge with etch, not resist? print & wash untill bare
[21:14:16] <skunkworks> at that point - milling I am sure would be faster ;)
[21:20:36] <tomp> awallin: about Big Fonts for DRO... since the char set is small (0-9 +/-) maybe use scalable grfx not font ?
[21:21:06] <lerneaen_hydra> tomp: why wouldn't you be able to scale the font? it is vector based after all
[21:21:21] <jepler> I'm sure a "7-segment" feature request can't be far behind
[21:21:28] <tomp> didnt know that, any font or just ttf?
[21:21:42] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: haha
[21:21:56] <lerneaen_hydra> tomp: pretty much all fonts
[21:21:57] <tomp> nixie tube :)
[21:22:03] <tomp> k
[21:22:07] <lerneaen_hydra> there are a few raster fonts
[21:22:14] <lerneaen_hydra> afaik all ttf are vector
[21:22:19] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: there seems to be a bug in Tk which makes certain fonts (those available as bitmap fonts, maybe) not display beyond a certain pixel size
[21:23:19] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, sounds like a bug in Tk more than anything else
[21:24:00] <tomp> i meant that if a font size is specified, and the window/widget zoomed, then the text is same size, while a grafic might scale with the window
[21:29:44] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[21:30:10] <lerneaen_hydra> that's more a gui-toolset thing more than the font's construction
[21:41:47] <alex_joni> The coming year is likely to present challenges; these trials are when your true character will show. Trusted friends can provide assistance in particularly pressing situations. Make use of the skills you have to compensate for ones you lack. Your reputation in the future depends on your honesty and integrity this year. Monetary investments will prove risky; inform yourself as much as possible. On the positive side, your chances of winning th
[21:42:54] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:43:09] <alex_joni> beew
[21:43:10] <tomp> ran out of room on the fortune cookie paper strip
[21:43:35] <tomp> cool inversion
[21:44:14] <tomp> deew
[21:46:37] <eholmgren> boop
[21:48:51] <fenn> jymmm: 7 roughing endmills 9 finish endmills 34 drill bits
[21:49:34] <fenn> jymmm http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0733.JPG
[21:49:46] <fenn> sorry i couldnt get it in focus
[21:50:34] <fenn> that's the "micro bit grab bag"
[21:50:33] <jepler> not.
[21:50:38] <jepler> oops
[21:50:59] <jepler> every time I do that it crosses my mind that having "paste" and "open URL" on the same button is a bad idea
[21:51:09] <jepler> when someone says something and scrolls the URL I was aiming for
[21:55:11] <awallin> jepler: can you tell me about how the openGL window is done with AXIS/Tkinter ?
[21:55:26] <awallin> I'd like to try out some geometry stuff, and need a way to draw things
[21:56:31] <jepler> awallin: OpenGL drawing happens within a Togl widget using the functions defined in the 'minigl' module
[21:57:14] <awallin> is Togl included in the standard Tkinter?
[21:57:20] <jepler> no but it's included with emc2
[21:57:47] <awallin> ok
[21:58:54] <awallin> hmm, that's in C, is there a python only solution where I can get an opengl tkinter widget?
[21:59:14] <jepler> let me see if I can cook up a Python-only example, using the minigl and OpenGLTk modules that are included in emc2
[21:59:49] <awallin> thanks for the help
[22:00:36] <awallin> I was able to get an opengl view using pyopengl, but I don't think that was a normal Tkinter window
[22:01:17] <awalli1> now I'm in ubuntu...
[22:03:01] <awalli1> the example I'm looking at uses glutCreateWindow()
[22:03:55] <awalli1> but I bet that's not a Tkinter window
[22:06:28] <jepler> no it's not
[22:06:45] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/minigldemo.py
[22:07:33] <awalli1> yep, that works, thanks!
[22:07:47] <jepler> yay
[22:08:17] <awalli1> are rs274 and minigl simple python files that I can move to a machine which doesn't have emc installed?
[22:08:22] <alex_joni> yay.. the impossible happened
[22:08:29] <alex_joni> I found a specific CD from 6 years ago
[22:08:57] <skunkworks> p2p?
[22:09:37] <jepler> awallin: rs274/OpenGLTk.py is a simple python file; minigl.so is a compiled module
[22:10:47] <awalli1> where is minigl needed ?
[22:11:42] <alex_joni> glMatrixMode() ?
[22:12:03] <awalli1> those look exactly like the glu/glut commands...
[22:12:48] <jepler> awallin: minigl is a wrapper around the set of OpenGL calls I needed in axis
[22:13:29] <jepler> awallin: at the time I started writing axis, it was hard to get a working python2.x-opengl package on many of the systems people were using (e.g., redhat 9 and bdi-live)
[22:14:06] <jepler> so I copied togl (the Tk opengl widget) into axis and wrote my own wrappers for the other parts of opengl I wanted
[22:15:03] <jepler> (oh, and when python2.x-opengl worked, it had a terrible memory leak that axis triggered)
[22:16:07] <awalli1> ok, I would have thought opengl in a tkinter window is possible without any special things... googling for that now
[22:17:18] <awalli1> "PyOpenGL is interoperable with a large number of external GUI libraries for Python including (Tkinter, wxPython, FxPy, PyGame, and Qt)."
[22:17:26] <awalli1> http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/
[22:17:38] <jepler> yes that's the library that was buggy and hard to compile, 2 years ago
[22:18:27] <jepler> the debian/ubuntu package name for it is python2.x-opengl
[22:19:08] <awalli1> I have that installed, and the demos work, but I'm not sure it creates a Tkinter widget/window
[22:21:29] <jepler> awallin: glutCreateWindow() doesn't create a Tkinter window
[22:21:41] <awalli1> that's what I thought
[22:22:07] <jepler> awallin: look aroundin pyopengl for a module with a name like 'Togl' -- that's the same widget as you get in rs274.OpenGLTk.Togl
[22:22:18] <jepler> It might be called OpenGL.Tk.Togl for all I know
[22:22:53] <awalli1> from a random mailing list: "Togl refuses to compile with the version of Tk distributed with Python 2.3 and above (it should compile for 2.2, though I haven't checked that in a while), and so it's being dropped from PyOpenGL. "
[22:23:57] <jepler> it works just fine, axis is living proof of that fact
[22:24:17] <jepler> but it's true that something in the "official version" didn't work, I don't recall exactly what
[22:29:02] <tomp> re Togl: http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/ctypes/using.html then look for tkinter (legacy gui)
[22:29:38] <tomp> maybe you dont need Togl to get what you want
[22:30:30] <jepler> if you're writing software to work with emc2, just use rs274.OpenGLTK and minigl
[22:30:53] <jepler> if you need a function that is not yet implemented in mingl, holler and I'll add it
[22:31:26] <jepler> if you want to test somewhere else, isolate your "draw" function nicely and you can port it to OpenGLTk/minigl easily
[22:32:24] <awallin> ok, this would not be directly emc2 related, more of a cad/cam test thing
[22:33:23] <awallin> hmm, where would <Python>/Lib/site-packages/OpenGL/Demo/dek/texturesurf.py be located ?
[22:38:55] <awallin> oh damn, I guess I'll us wxPython...
[22:44:03] <alex_joni> heh.. anyone needs Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 ?
[22:44:35] <tomp> the black cds
[22:44:53] <alex_joni> hmm.. I also have some SuSE 6.3
[22:45:15] <alex_joni> kernel 2.2.13 :)
[22:46:37] <awallin> I just threw away one of my first slackware install floppies...
[23:34:03] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:36:21] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night