#emc | Logs for 2007-01-06

[00:00:32] <anonimasu> lerman: that'd give us the stuff they need for EDM if it were implemented..
[00:00:44] <lerman> It sure would make debugging safer. Just turn the wheel from the beginning of the program to the end and make sure you don't hit anything. Of course, you wouldn't want to be cutting something that work hardens along the way.
[00:01:32] <lerman> I brought the emc source code with me to San Francisco to read. I'd like to know if all canon operations are reversible.
[00:02:01] <A-L-P-H-A> there was a low res, 3d scanner, that was with a webcam on digg a few days ago.
[00:02:07] <anonimasu> lerman: wouldnt backing up/going forward be a TP issue
[00:02:08] <anonimasu> ?
[00:03:42] <lerman> Possibly. When TP rounds off corners, that is a function of speed. I wouldn't expect it to follow the exact same path in reverse. -- although that might be possible (within following error specs), too.
[00:05:16] <anonimasu> that's a issue..
[00:05:34] <daniel_br> i think rounds off corners in function of speed is not a problem for edm
[00:06:09] <lerman> Would EDM always run in 'exact mode'?
[00:06:29] <anonimasu> hm, that's true..
[00:06:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu isnt really into EDM
[00:06:45] <anonimasu> I've yet to find a powersupply I can build..
[00:06:46] <anonimasu> :)
[00:06:47] <lerman> Or is it so slow, that it doesn't matter?
[00:07:03] <anonimasu> lerman: that's probably the point..
[00:07:08] <anonimasu> lerman: EDM is super precise
[00:07:42] <anonimasu> so rounding is probably just stupid :)
[00:08:10] <lerman> I'll be looking at that this week. I don't have a linux machine with me, so I can't develop -- but I can read code, and plan.
[00:09:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[00:09:35] <anonimasu> spindle alignment time tomorrow
[00:12:42] <daniel_br> anonimasu: edm powersupply http://cscott.net/Projects/FabClass/final/edesign1.html
[00:15:44] <anonimasu> daniel_br: good one?
[00:16:15] <anonimasu> what kind of finish does that power supply yeild?
[00:16:22] <daniel_br> i don't know
[00:16:39] <anonimasu> :/
[00:16:53] <daniel_br> maybe swp or jmk or mydnac can say
[00:16:57] <anonimasu> it had to be as good as what I can mill or it's essentially useless..
[00:16:58] <anonimasu> :)
[00:17:05] <anonimasu> mdynac has a agie if I remember it right..
[00:17:11] <anonimasu> :
[00:18:00] <daniel_br> i think he have lots edms
[00:18:14] <anonimasu> hm, yeah..
[00:18:25] <lerman> That powersupply has no isolation from the line. You *really* don't want to connect the line to your machine. Plug it in backwards, touch your machine while grounded, and fry.
[00:18:48] <lerman> Put an isolation transformer into the circuit and play it safe.
[00:19:32] <daniel_br> yes, i think this also
[00:20:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:22:13] <daniel_br> if tomp, mac or jmk aprove this circuit I will build one!
[00:27:01] <anonimasu> nice
[00:29:22] <daniel_br> see also Rober Langlois book "Build an EDM"
[00:30:27] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:30:34] <anonimasu> it's not high on my list of to do stuff :)
[00:30:48] <jmkasunich> daniel_br: there's no way I'd build an EDM power supply that wasn't isolated from the incoming line
[00:32:38] <jmkasunich> also, unless you already know a fair bit about power electronics, that circuit would be quite tricky
[00:33:03] <jmkasunich> there are layout issues that are critical, but not described by the schematic
[00:33:04] <daniel_br> I think so
[00:33:47] <jmkasunich> also - note that neither the electrode nor the workpiece is grounded
[00:34:00] <jmkasunich> that means you need to isolate both from ground
[00:39:56] <daniel_br> Maybe some day one good opensource edm powersupply will appear
[00:40:20] <daniel_br> for use with emc2
[00:54:37] <Goslowjimbo> I'm having a little trouble implementing pyvcp into a .hal file. This is what Dave Engvall sent to me over the user's forum yesterday.
[00:55:47] <Goslowjimbo> Every time I start the file, it generates the display, then says "waiting for component 'pyvcp' to become ready. How do I change that?
[00:57:44] <Goslowjimbo> It generates all of the pyvcp pins ( I gave them the name "ncs"), but doesn't do anything past that.
[00:58:12] <Goslowjimbo> Yes, I changed the name of the pins in the .hal file, too
[01:00:30] <Goslowjimbo> Anders Wallin corrected some of the errors in the .hal file
[01:12:06] <daniel_br> bye
[01:12:10] <Goslowjimbo> I put the full info in pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/307405
[01:39:07] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, I'm not sure you need the -W option on the loadusr pyvcp line
[01:40:21] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, that may need to be -w instead (lower case)
[01:40:30] <SWPadnos> but I'm not positive
[01:41:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no, that's not it
[01:42:43] <SWPadnos> oops
[01:42:59] <Goslowjimbo> Actually, it did change things. I got a hal error not finding " ", then pyvcd went through.
[01:43:05] <SWPadnos> halcmd assumes that the name of the component will be the name specified on the load line
[01:43:23] <SWPadnos> so it's looking for "pyvcp" to become ready, not ncs
[01:44:05] <SWPadnos> you can cheat by dropping the "w" or "W" options altogether, and add a short sleep after the pyvcp load line
[01:44:35] <Goslowjimbo> Why a sleep?
[01:44:46] <SWPadnos> the reason for -w or -W is that halcmd may keep going before the program being run has finished setting up all its pins
[01:45:01] <SWPadnos> so you can get errors that pins aren't found, depending on how things get scheduled
[01:46:01] <SWPadnos> the sleep will be a workaround until a fix can be made for halcmd (naming components with anything other than the program name is a new feature which halcmd doesn't yet support)
[01:47:02] <SWPadnos> hey wait - what am I talking about? it is supported:
[01:47:10] <SWPadnos> try this line:
[01:47:35] <SWPadnos> loadusr -n ncs -W pyvcp -n ncs pyvcp-dro.xml
[01:47:51] <SWPadnos> (yes, that's two "-n ncs" constructs)
[01:48:59] <SWPadnos> and you don't needa sleep with that
[01:51:34] <Goslowjimbo> can't find program -W
[01:51:43] <SWPadnos> I just noticed that you're missing the thread name (fast) in the line that adds encoder.update-counters
[01:51:52] <SWPadnos> sorry - put -W before -n ncs
[01:58:52] <Goslowjimbo> I'll try it. I now am stuck where I can't stop the realtime components. It says they're still being used by HAL components, but the components are not there.
[02:16:06] <wb9mjn> How would that spline scan thing work on a tilted flat plate ?
[02:26:53] <ejholmgren> hrmmnn...
[02:27:14] <ejholmgren> need to cut a db25 sized hole in a metal box
[02:27:45] <wb9mjn> Somebody has G code for that somewhere I saw....
[02:27:59] <ejholmgren> think it was cradek ...
[02:28:06] <ejholmgren> but I don't have a functioning mill yet
[02:28:10] <wb9mjn> Otherwise...just drill a few holes in line, and use a Radio Shack nibler...
[02:28:18] <ejholmgren> drill and dremel time
[02:28:34] <wb9mjn> Then when the noze of the Dsub goes in, mark for the side holes...
[02:29:06] <wb9mjn> Leave extra space around the nose on the Dsub plug....or the jack may not fully mate...
[02:49:52] <jepler> It should just be "loadusr -Wn ncs pyvcp ..."
[02:52:23] <jmkasunich> is this confusion a case of people not Rin the FM, or is the info missing?
[03:02:02] <jepler> looks like -W is not in the manpage
[03:02:22] <jepler> no -- it is
[03:02:26] <jepler> I think I was viewing the 2.0 version
[03:02:54] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/man/man1/halcmd.1.html
[03:03:48] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1: remove x8 and x16 types from newsig
[03:04:05] <jmkasunich> how'd I miss those?
[03:04:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1: merge 1.20: remove x8 and x16 types from newsig
[03:10:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1:
[03:10:51] <CIA-8> document that commandline completion may be available
[03:10:51] <CIA-8> document that "=" can be used to set pin values
[03:18:16] <SWPadnos> hi guys
[03:18:20] <jmkasunich> hi
[03:18:29] <SWPadnos> I was looking at the code, but didn't notice the "n" option for a while
[03:19:24] <SWPadnos> jmk: I got the cable today
[03:19:28] <jmkasunich> good
[03:19:40] <SWPadnos> my wife looked at it and said "ooh - a '70's belt" :)
[03:19:52] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:20:45] <jmkasunich> I managed to find 5 contactors in various boxes
[03:20:48] <jmkasunich> no two alike
[03:21:02] <SWPadnos> of course
[03:21:21] <jmkasunich> I was hoping for a pair of more-or-less identical ones to enable either the lathe or mill spindle motor
[03:21:20] <SWPadnos> do you expect to use them for motors or other stuff?
[03:21:32] <SWPadnos> for reversing?
[03:21:37] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[03:21:40] <jmkasunich> no
[03:22:00] <jmkasunich> while I'm still using the single phase motors, I'm gonna hardwire them for forward only
[03:22:21] <jmkasunich> once I get the VFD set up, the contactors will connect one or the other motor to the VFD output
[03:22:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm - can the shoptask reverse the spindle?
[03:22:38] <SWPadnos> I can't remember
[03:22:59] <jmkasunich> it can, but only after the motor slows enough that the centrifugal switch closes
[03:23:06] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[03:23:16] <SWPadnos> it's been a while since I've used the one at my old company
[03:23:38] <jmkasunich> I found a few handy parts while looking for contactors
[03:24:12] <jmkasunich> a half-dozen 100A 1600V three phase bridge rectifiers, only 3" x 1.5", with nice screw terminals
[03:24:50] <jmkasunich> and a bunch (didn't count, maybe 20-30) of 600V 50A individual IGBTs, about 1.5" cubes
[03:25:17] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:25:26] <jmkasunich> those would be handy for switching DB resistors across a DC bus
[03:25:40] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:25:56] <jmkasunich> also found a very nice three phase EMI/RFI filter
[03:26:12] <jmkasunich> unfortunately its 1/4" too wide to mount edgewise in the cabinet
[03:26:32] <jmkasunich> 8" x 8.5" x 1-3/4"
[03:27:01] <jmkasunich> I want to keep the noise inside the box
[03:27:36] <jmkasunich> when I put a VFD on my drill press, I killed AM radio reception throughout the house (and maybe for the neighbors)
[03:27:40] <jmkasunich> until I added a line filter
[03:28:40] <SWPadnos> heh. I think I have a 20A CorCom filter I got off eBay
[03:28:44] <SWPadnos> for something like $10 or so
[03:28:48] <jmkasunich> that should do the trick
[03:29:05] <jmkasunich> my problem is that I need to filter L1, L2, and neutral
[03:29:24] <jmkasunich> most of the less expensive filters will do L1 and neutral, or L1 and L2
[03:29:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm - one sec
[03:29:45] <SWPadnos> let me look at it again - it may be a 3-phase filter for the VFD input
[03:29:58] <SWPadnos> hey - that's what you're looking for :)
[03:33:49] <SWPadnos> yep - it's a 250V/30A 3-phase filter
[03:33:58] <jmkasunich> nice
[03:34:03] <jmkasunich> not tiny I bet
[03:34:24] <SWPadnos> 4x4.25x1.75
[03:34:34] <jmkasunich> not bad
[03:34:37] <SWPadnos> includint the mounting flanges
[03:34:58] <jmkasunich> I think this one is so big because it was intended to make a drive CE compliant
[03:35:04] <SWPadnos> the body is 3 1/4 wide (instead of the 4 1/4)
[03:35:29] <SWPadnos> this one is only UL and the backwards UR logo, no CE
[03:35:53] <SWPadnos> well, reversed UR and CSA
[03:49:38] <Roguish__> Roguish__ is now known as Roguish
[03:51:56] <jmkasunich> there are a _lot_ of contactors on ebay
[03:58:11] <SWPadnos> indeed.
[03:58:18] <SWPadnos> how many amps do you need?
[03:58:30] <jmkasunich> this one would do: http://cgi.ebay.com/ABB-Contactor-Model-AF1650-30-Allen-Bradley-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ110075830058QQihZ001QQcategoryZ42895QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:59:04] <SWPadnos> err ...
[03:59:27] <SWPadnos> but it only goes up to 1000 HP motors :)
[03:59:32] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:59:47] <jmkasunich> this is more realistic
[03:59:48] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320068455756&fromMakeTrack=true
[04:00:05] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't use it as reversing, just parallel the inputs, and connect one motor to each output
[04:00:13] <jmkasunich> the interlocking is nice but not really needed
[04:00:18] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:00:41] <jmkasunich> unfortunately that model isn't in the current siemens catalog and the auction lacks details
[04:01:32] <SWPadnos> I probably have a pair of telemecanique contactors that would do the job for you
[04:02:01] <SWPadnos> I don't remember what didn't sell at CNC workshop though, so I may not have them any more
[04:02:09] <SWPadnos> that was a lot of negatives
[04:02:31] <jmkasunich> this looks quite promising
[04:02:45] <jmkasunich> buy it now, he has 120 of them, and he combines shipping
[04:03:00] <jmkasunich> so $30 gets two delivered
[04:03:07] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:03:26] <jmkasunich> I think its a 24V AC coil
[04:03:33] <jmkasunich> (HVAC type stuff)
[04:03:39] <SWPadnos> yeah. it's always something
[04:03:55] <SWPadnos> I saw lots of 48V ones when I was looking
[04:03:56] <jmkasunich> and no aux contacts - it would be kinda nice to know its closed before running the drive
[04:04:01] <SWPadnos> which I didn't want
[04:04:16] <jmkasunich> the aux thing might be me over-engineering things again
[04:04:19] <jmkasunich> I do that a lot
[04:04:24] <SWPadnos> I don't think so in this case
[04:04:36] <SWPadnos> it's a Bad Thing to run a VFD with no load, right?
[04:04:49] <jmkasunich> not really
[04:05:00] <jmkasunich> its a bad thing to switch the load while running
[04:06:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I thought the current and back-emf sensing got all screwed up, and they basically misbehave a lot (sometimes into oblivion)
[04:06:54] <jmkasunich> if the outputs are open, there will be no output current, so the current loop will go a little nutz
[04:07:09] <jmkasunich> but if the outputs are open, who cards
[04:07:12] <jmkasunich> cares
[04:07:21] <SWPadnos> well, there is that
[04:07:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/rtapi_print.3rtapi:
[04:07:49] <CIA-8> add rtapi_set_msg_handler and rtapi_get_msg_handler so that apps using
[04:07:49] <CIA-8> rtapi can redirect the messages in whatever way they desire
[04:07:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtai_rtapi.c rtapi.h rtl_rtapi.c sim_common.h):
[04:07:51] <CIA-8> add rtapi_set_msg_handler and rtapi_get_msg_handler so that apps using
[04:07:51] <CIA-8> rtapi can redirect the messages in whatever way they desire
[04:07:52] <jmkasunich> running with one phase open, or closing the contactor after the current loop has saturated and is commanding 100% duty cycle would be bad
[04:08:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/motion.c:
[04:08:44] <CIA-8> use rtapi_set_msg_handler so that error messages are presented to the user
[04:08:44] <CIA-8> with reportError. Now, if you ask for too high a step rate, a message
[04:08:44] <CIA-8> to that effect is displayed by the emc gui as soon as you take the machine out
[04:08:46] <jmkasunich> but an aux isn't gonna detect a single open phase, and might not be fast enough to be meaningfull in the close under load or open under load case
[04:08:46] <CIA-8> of e-stop, instead of going unnoticed in dmesg
[04:08:59] <jepler> I hope i got all that right
[04:09:07] <jepler> sim still works and rtai still builds
[04:09:15] <jepler> goodnight
[04:09:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:09:18] <SWPadnos> good night
[04:09:38] <jmkasunich> thats jeff - commit and run
[04:09:41] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:09:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:11:14] <SWPadnos> man - VHDL books are expensive
[04:11:20] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:11:29] <jmkasunich> I was looking at amazon a few days ago
[04:11:54] <jmkasunich> its especially bad when you can't leaf thru it first to see if its good or crap
[04:12:07] <SWPadnos> but then there's the $6.30 verilog book /)
[04:12:09] <SWPadnos> yeah
[04:12:23] <SWPadnos> I went to barnes&noble and couldn't find any
[04:12:43] <SWPadnos> they were arranged by author though, instead of subject/language
[04:12:56] <SWPadnos> I think I looked at Borders as well, but didn't see any
[04:13:52] <jmkasunich> I went to B&N here too - they have one shelf of "engineering" books, most of which are crap
[04:14:17] <jmkasunich> I also went to half-price-books, sometimes you get great deals there, but nothing at all for VHDL
[04:15:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. our BN may have a better engineering section - it's a full bookcase or two, separate from the 5 cases filled with programming books (plus an additional 5 or 6 on other computer topics)
[04:15:57] <SWPadnos> computers/EE stuff is actually all of two short aisles
[04:16:06] <jmkasunich> ours has 4-5 bookcases of computer stuff, much of it at the dummys guide to foo level
[04:16:14] <SWPadnos> yeah
[04:16:26] <SWPadnos> I didn't check the actual engineering or reference sections - I should probably have done that
[04:16:33] <jmkasunich> and 2 cases that contain all the rest of the hard sciences and engineering combined
[04:16:52] <SWPadnos> though they had moves the Machinery's Handbook from that section to near the computer books ...
[04:17:03] <SWPadnos> oh, there's a separate science section in this one
[04:17:15] <SWPadnos> then textbooks, then reference ...
[04:18:08] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna go with those ABB definite purpose ones
[04:18:57] <SWPadnos> the guy with 120 of them?
[04:19:10] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:19:18] <SWPadnos> ah. you never pasted the link to that one :)
[04:19:54] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ABB-Contactor-DP30C3P-F-3Pole-24V-Coil_W0QQitemZ270074556887QQihZ017QQcategoryZ42895QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:20:35] <SWPadnos> ah ok. I think I have a furnas version of that (unless I sold it :) )
[04:22:46] <jmkasunich> same guy has 40A ones with 120V coils for the same price
[04:25:15] <jmkasunich> that guy has a _lot_ of stuff
[04:25:20] <jmkasunich> 269 items under $20
[04:25:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's cool
[04:26:44] <jmkasunich> ah, he has the 30A one with 120V coil too - smaller and same price
[04:27:12] <SWPadnos> the 120V coil could be a pain though, once you switch to 240V input
[04:27:21] <jmkasunich> thats why I'm bringing in the neutral
[04:27:27] <jmkasunich> the PC supply needs 120 after all
[04:27:36] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:27:42] <jmkasunich> (actually I bet it can be switched, but...)
[04:28:40] <jmkasunich> I have quite a few "ice-cube" relays with 24V coils, they can be used as pilots for the 120V stuff
[04:28:58] <jmkasunich> got nice DIN rail sockets for them
[04:29:26] <jmkasunich> crap - he accepts paypal only
[04:29:45] <jmkasunich> do you need a paypal account to pay, or just a credit card?
[04:29:59] <SWPadnos> an account
[04:30:05] <SWPadnos> with a CC linked to it
[04:30:25] <jmkasunich> I really don't want to do that
[04:30:44] <SWPadnos> actually, you can use PayPal with a bank account only - they just do an EFT
[04:31:12] <jmkasunich> the point is I don't want paypal's grubby fingers in my accounts
[04:31:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:31:31] <jmkasunich> unless I use a dedicated account with a limited amount of money in it
[04:33:44] <jmkasunich> how long have you had your paypal account?
[04:34:02] <SWPadnos> at least 4 years
[04:34:12] <jmkasunich> ever had any problems?
[04:34:28] <SWPadnos> a couple of issues, which eventually got resolved
[04:34:37] <SWPadnos> no identity theft or anything
[04:34:53] <jmkasunich> things like this scare me: http://www.paypalsucks.com/
[04:35:22] <SWPadnos> the only thing I haven't liked has been the lack of speed in resolving problems, but I generally pay with a credit card and dispute the amount if PayPal sits on their asses fro too long
[04:36:32] <SWPadnos> nice cartoon. notice that every message has a link at the bottom "click here for our paypal alternative" ...
[04:36:44] <SWPadnos> (if you click on the cartoon)
[04:37:31] <jmkasunich> ah...
[04:37:53] <jmkasunich> not exactly a neutral opinion
[04:38:03] <SWPadnos> it doesn't seem that way
[04:38:03] <jmkasunich> but then I knew that going in
[04:38:20] <SWPadnos> I had a problem way back when, and I finally dd a chargeback (even though I'm supposedly not supposed to)
[04:38:38] <SWPadnos> PayPal finally determined that I was right anyway, on both occasions I've disputed anything
[04:39:15] <jmkasunich> the thing that makes me hesitate is that I have _one_ credit card account, which I have had for many years (20+), has a very good record, and a rather high limit
[04:39:29] <jmkasunich> I don't want some fsck-up to result in them messing up that account
[04:39:46] <SWPadnos> yeah.
[04:40:11] <SWPadnos> I've had one card for many years, and it has a ~$44000 credit line
[04:40:18] <SWPadnos> that's the card I use with PayPal
[04:40:54] <SWPadnos> it's been canceled on me twice in the last few years (once rather suddenly, whice I was on a trip, which was annoying)
[04:41:20] <SWPadnos> but they've been due to "questionable activity", and that hasn't impacted my credit rating
[04:41:45] <SWPadnos> (I think the last time is because my information may have been on that VA laptop that was stolen for a few weeks)
[04:41:46] <jmkasunich> canceled?
[04:41:55] <SWPadnos> yeah - like new number and everything
[04:42:04] <SWPadnos> changed, I should say
[04:42:16] <jmkasunich> none of the questionable activity had anything to do with paypal?
[04:42:22] <SWPadnos> nope
[04:42:45] <SWPadnos> it's possible that the first time, the number was harvested from PayPal, but I have no way of knowing
[04:42:54] <SWPadnos> I use that card for just about everything online
[04:43:25] <jmkasunich> to date I've been very cautious about online credit card use
[04:43:27] <SWPadnos> (I got a call asking if I had bought a computer in England, which I had, and $5800 worth of golf clubs, which I hadn't :) )
[04:43:37] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:43:48] <Tat2artist> hey you guys cnc machinest
[04:43:58] <SWPadnos> not me, but I may be one eventually
[04:44:12] <Tat2artist> is there anyone in here that is?
[04:44:28] <jmkasunich> what do you want to know?
[04:44:47] <jmkasunich> to date I've done mostly manual machining, but I'm not entirely clueless about CNC
[04:45:13] <Tat2artist> well actually im a tattoo artist and plan on creating some hand built tattoo machines but the only thing i need is for a machinest to cut my frame ideas
[04:45:19] <SWPadnos> hey - I didn't say I was clueless :)
[04:45:20] <Tat2artist> and i would pay for there supplies and time
[04:45:51] <jmkasunich> are the designs such that they _require_ CNC?
[04:46:18] <Tat2artist> well im not sure?
[04:46:29] <Tat2artist> hang on ill show you an example
[04:46:39] <SWPadnos> one other thing - where are you located?
[04:47:00] <Tat2artist> ohio
[04:47:10] <Tat2artist> i can paypal money or send money order if need be
[04:47:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:47:13] <jmkasunich> where in ohio - its a big state
[04:47:51] <Tat2artist> here is an example
[04:47:53] <Tat2artist> http://i13.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/7a/b9/469f_1.JPG
[04:48:16] <jmkasunich> what material? steel?
[04:48:20] <Tat2artist> and another would be this...
[04:48:26] <Tat2artist> http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/7a/b9/7c3d_1.JPG
[04:48:35] <jmkasunich> machining something like that from a block isn't gonna be easy - 95% of the initial block becomes chips
[04:48:43] <Tat2artist> iron or brass preferebly but i could do steel as well
[04:48:50] <jmkasunich> iron?
[04:49:02] <jmkasunich> very few things are actually made of "iron"
[04:49:10] <Tat2artist> im no machinest
[04:49:33] <jmkasunich> those parts were probably either cast or forged, a far more efficient process
[04:49:41] <Tat2artist> i know in the tattoo world what we consider iron frames are a bit heavier than cheap aluminum but has great magnetism properties
[04:49:46] <jmkasunich> (although that doesn't lend it self to making one or two pieces)
[04:49:47] <Tat2artist> but brass being the best for our applications
[04:50:06] <jmkasunich> "iron" is probably steel
[04:50:37] <jmkasunich> but the magnetic thing is odd - because both iron and steel ARE magnetic, and brass and aluminm are NOT
[04:50:47] <SWPadnos> how big is the item in the photos?
[04:50:47] <jmkasunich> seems to be you need one or the other
[04:51:27] <Tat2artist> well see the frames dont create magnetism its the coils and the frames are used fro conduction to the coils and through the compasitor and such
[04:51:40] <Tat2artist> maybe 3 and a half inches tall
[04:51:47] <Tat2artist> to 4 max
[04:51:47] <jmkasunich> right - and brass frames don't conduct magnetism
[04:52:20] <jmkasunich> machining that would be very wastefull
[04:52:28] <Tat2artist> brass is conducting electricity to the coils which create magnetism to pull the armeture bar and springs which are connected to the needle which is all connected to the frame
[04:52:35] <jmkasunich> start with this big old solid block of metal, and turn almost all of it into chips
[04:52:48] <Tat2artist> i realise this
[04:53:14] <Tat2artist> the machines we use in our trade sell for upwards 300-400 dollars apiece easy
[04:53:18] <jmkasunich> I assume your design isn't exactly the same as these
[04:53:30] <jmkasunich> do you have complete and detailed drawings of the parts you need?
[04:53:39] <Tat2artist> yes im working on these
[04:53:51] <Tat2artist> ill be hand building my springs and coils and vices and such
[04:54:01] <Tat2artist> just need the frames cut somehow
[04:54:07] <jmkasunich> I assume you're not doing this to save money
[04:54:11] <Tat2artist> no no
[04:54:27] <Tat2artist> something for spare time and good tattoo machines are like gold in our industy
[04:54:49] <Tat2artist> 18th of an inch can ruin a tattoo machine
[04:54:56] <Tat2artist> from a good to bad machine
[04:55:03] <jmkasunich> 1/8 of an inch?
[04:55:34] <jmkasunich> thats not machining - a blacksmith can do 1/8 inch
[04:55:44] <Tat2artist> we use around an 18th of an inch distance between contact screw and such for liners its quite complex to tell you the truth
[04:55:47] <jmkasunich> maching does 1/100 of an inch or better
[04:55:56] <Tat2artist> very tiny modifications will change a machine
[04:56:27] <jmkasunich> how many of these are you planning to make?
[04:56:52] <Tat2artist> i mean the arch of an arm that holds the contact screw which connects to the springs with connect to the steel armature bar which is forced downwards by the coils
[04:57:06] <Tat2artist> maybe 10 -15 overall
[04:57:10] <Tat2artist> not different
[04:57:13] <Tat2artist> maybe 2 different styles
[04:57:20] <Tat2artist> a liner and a shader
[04:57:38] <jmkasunich> expect to pay a few thousand dollars total for machining
[04:57:49] <Tat2artist> why so much
[04:58:03] <jmkasunich> machine shops charge $75-100 per hour
[04:58:09] <jmkasunich> and there are a lot of hours in those parts
[04:58:21] <jmkasunich> (if you insist on machining them from solid)
[04:58:31] <Tat2artist> how else can it be done?
[04:58:41] <SWPadnos> cast then machine to final shape
[04:58:44] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:58:53] <Tat2artist> could they be cut and welded then grinded to smootheness
[04:59:08] <Tat2artist> how does casting work
[04:59:16] <skunkworks> tat2artist: maybe get an idea by asking for a quote here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74
[04:59:30] <SWPadnos> it's an old method for making cannons and bells
[04:59:31] <jmkasunich> in simple terms, pour melted metal into a hold shaped like the part you want and let it cool
[04:59:43] <jmkasunich> into a hole, not hold
[04:59:48] <SWPadnos> what he said
[05:00:00] <jmkasunich> there are all kind of techniques for getting that hole
[05:00:32] <jmkasunich> for instance, make a wooden model, pack moist sand around it, carefully open up and remove the wood, close again and pour in melted metal
[05:00:33] <SWPadnos> and the nice thing is, you can start with a sample that you carve from some relatively soft material, such as wax or plastic
[05:01:07] <jmkasunich> the wax thing is especially nice if you only need one
[05:01:08] <Tat2artist> yes wax liek they do jewelry
[05:01:14] <jmkasunich> exactly
[05:01:21] <jmkasunich> thats known as investment casting
[05:01:30] <Tat2artist> hmm
[05:01:39] <Tat2artist> so is this something i would have to goto someone for
[05:01:43] <jmkasunich> yeah
[05:01:53] <Tat2artist> or could i possibly purchase the means to do this at home?
[05:02:15] <jmkasunich> it is possible to do casting as a hobby, but casting iron is very advanced hobby
[05:02:20] <jmkasunich> most hobby casters use aluminum
[05:02:38] <Tat2artist> so lets say i did create some aluminum frames
[05:02:50] <Tat2artist> how difficult are we talking to create such things?
[05:03:06] <Tat2artist> and how much does aluminum usually run to buy fro that sort of thing
[05:03:10] <jmkasunich> to create something that sort of resembles your wood model, not too hard
[05:03:26] <jmkasunich> to create a good, strong, bubble and crack free casting that looks good takes lots of practive
[05:03:25] <SWPadnos> it looks like you don't actually need an iron-bearing frame - only the actuator needs to be ferrous metal
[05:03:27] <jmkasunich> practice
[05:04:28] <jmkasunich> http://www.host33.com/casting/index.html
[05:04:41] <Tat2artist> no the iron frame is old school and kinda stuck for the hard hitting artist
[05:04:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/
[05:04:46] <jmkasunich> google is your friend
[05:05:31] <Tat2artist> were would i find the things needed to melt aluminum or brass for instance?
[05:05:55] <SWPadnos> that first link talks about all of it
[05:06:01] <jmkasunich> go to those URLs that I just posted, or google "metal casting"
[05:06:20] <SWPadnos> these are nice: http://www.tattoo-machine.com/
[05:06:31] <SWPadnos> and these: http://www.tattoo-machine.com/
[05:06:37] <SWPadnos> argh
[05:06:53] <SWPadnos> the Mao and Black Lotus
[05:07:36] <jmkasunich> from the tattoo machine site: "Created in a Lost Wax Casting giving you the finest Quality and Precision available"
[05:09:40] <Tat2artist> http://www.tattooart.se/cust.html
[05:09:46] <Tat2artist> those are nice hand built examples
[05:10:29] <Tat2artist> so would i have to "build a furnace" or can i buy something small of the sort for home hobbiest?
[05:10:31] <jmkasunich> every one of those frames is a casting - probably lost wax
[05:11:11] <SWPadnos> with considerable hand finishing
[05:11:15] <jmkasunich> right
[05:11:48] <jmkasunich> regarding furnaces - you can probably buy one, but small furnaces probably cost 50 times what the homemade ones cost
[05:12:29] <jmkasunich> unless you find some hobbyist who is making and selling them using a hobbyist design with low overhead
[05:13:01] <jmkasunich> furnace size depends on the amount of metal you need to melt at a time
[05:13:17] <Tat2artist> what would you suggest i would need for making one of those frames?
[05:13:26] <Tat2artist> again there no more than 4 by 4 max
[05:13:25] <jmkasunich> jewelers don't really use a furnace at all, they just aim a torch into the crucible
[05:13:39] <Tat2artist> and there thin for ergonomical purposes
[05:14:03] <jmkasunich> there are too many variables to answer that question
[05:14:30] <jmkasunich> for example - if you want to make one-of-a-kind machines, then make each one out of wax, and do a lost wax casting
[05:14:55] <jmkasunich> the wax original is destroyed in the process though - so you can't easily make copies
[05:15:13] <jmkasunich> (there are ways to make copies, but that gets into more process steps and more equipment)
[05:15:43] <jmkasunich> if you want lots of identical ones, then you need to make a wood or such pattern and use a process that doesn't destroy the pattern
[05:16:07] <jmkasunich> sand casting (what most hobby casters do) probably isn't accurate enough
[05:16:19] <jmkasunich> and leaves a crappy surface that would need lots of hand finishing work
[05:16:35] <SWPadnos> machining is viable, but very slow for this amount of metal removal (especially hard and ferrous metals)
[05:17:00] <SWPadnos> you could do it if you had your own machine, but it's probably too costly to hire someone to do it for you
[05:18:05] <jmkasunich> for lost wax casting, a simpler option is to make the wax model, then send it off to a pro to be cast
[05:18:16] <jmkasunich> http://www.franklinbronze.com/investment-casting/lost-wax-casting.htm
[05:19:10] <Tat2artist> couldnt you make a clay mold to pour your wax into ?
[05:19:25] <jmkasunich> sure
[05:19:26] <Tat2artist> so then to create more wax productions you use your original clay mold?
[05:19:37] <jmkasunich> the trick is getting the mold apart and getting the wax out intact
[05:19:50] <jmkasunich> depending on the shape it may be very difficult
[05:20:34] <jmkasunich> but you are on the right track as far as production - you use a mold to make one wax for each part you want
[05:21:56] <jmkasunich> jewelers use silicone rubber to make molds for waxes
[05:22:48] <jmkasunich> the rubber is stiff enough to hold the proper shape, but flexible enough to remove the wax even if the shape has holes and other details that would be caught in a rigid mold
[05:23:53] <Tat2artist> something like this possibly do the trick?
[05:23:56] <Tat2artist> http://cgi.ebay.com/RCBS-Pro-Melt-Electric-Bullet-Casting-Furnace_W0QQitemZ330071351523QQihZ014QQcategoryZ71118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:24:21] <jmkasunich> no
[05:24:40] <jmkasunich> lead melts at a much lower temperature than the metals you want to work with
[05:25:21] <Tat2artist> ok
[05:25:23] <jmkasunich> lead - about 600 degrees, aluminum - about 1000 degrees, brass/bronze - 1500 or so degrees, iron - 2000+ degrees
[05:26:19] <jmkasunich> to be honest, if you have to ask people how to do casting, you shouldn't do it - do some reading and learn about it in more detail than we can possibly tell you first
[05:26:34] <jmkasunich> I'd recommend making wax models and sending them out to be cast
[05:26:52] <jmkasunich> that way somebody else has the expensive equipment and the dangerous hot stuff
[05:27:44] <jmkasunich> there is also a lot of fine-tuning needed for casting - it would really suck to spend time making a perfect wax model, then attempting to cast it and winding up with bubbles in the casting or cracks, or whatever - then you get to start over making another wax
[05:28:26] <jmkasunich> the pros have lots of practice, they know all the tricky details like how long and how hot to burn out the wax, how hot the metal needs to be before pouring, how to prevent impurities in the metal, et
[05:28:29] <jmkasunich> etc
[05:29:27] <Tat2artist> id like to learn for myself ;)
[05:29:48] <jmkasunich> as long as you understand that you will be learning casting, not making tattoo machines, thats fine
[05:30:00] <SWPadnos> just be very careful - the temperatures needed are basically enough to vaporize skin
[05:30:02] <jmkasunich> just don't think you'll get good castings after a week or to
[05:31:50] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_wax
[05:31:56] <jmkasunich> pretty decent article
[05:32:39] <jmkasunich> that article also links to a list of lost wax foundries that will cast your models for you
[05:33:16] <jmkasunich> where in ohio are you?
[05:33:23] <Tat2artist> mansfield ohio
[05:33:52] <jmkasunich> Light Sculpture Works and Studio Foundry are both in Cleveland
[05:34:48] <jmkasunich> http://www.lightsculptureworks.com/
[05:35:15] <Tat2artist> what might the price difference be in casting?
[05:36:05] <jmkasunich> cheaper than machining is all I can tell you
[05:36:18] <jmkasunich> you'd have to contact a caster and ask for pricing
[05:39:44] <jmkasunich> here's another place that is more industrial and less "artistic"
[05:40:03] <jmkasunich> but they still seem to be able to do small jobs
[05:40:36] <jmkasunich> (many industrial casters won't even talk to you unless you want to make hundreds or thousands of parts, and spend tens of thousands of dollars)
[05:40:48] <Tat2artist> gotcha
[05:41:33] <jmkasunich> oops, I guess it helps if I actually give you the link: http://www.avalon-castings.com/
[05:53:41] <Tat2artist> well thank you for all of your informations!
[05:53:48] <jmkasunich> good luck
[05:53:56] <SWPadnos> \have fun
[05:53:56] <Tat2artist> thanks good night all
[05:54:03] <SWPadnos> good night
[05:54:16] <SWPadnos> in fact, that's a good idea. it's 1 AM again
[05:54:51] <jmkasunich> I'm back to trying to decide if I should buy those contactors...
[05:55:06] <SWPadnos> well, he's got 120 of them, so it's not critical tonight
[05:55:12] <jmkasunich> right
[05:55:49] <jmkasunich> Its probably time that I move into the 21st century
[05:56:07] <SWPadnos> and get SSR contactors? ;)
[05:56:07] <jmkasunich> maybe tomorrow I'll go to the bank and open a checking account with $100 in it ;-)
[05:57:45] <SWPadnos> yeah - I think all you need are the routing numbers for PayPal
[06:02:40] <jmkasunich> now I know why he doesn't list the brand of the contactor
[06:02:44] <jmkasunich> Yueqing Hecheng Electrical Co., Ltd.
[06:03:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[06:04:08] <SWPadnos> ok. time for bed now - good night :)
[06:04:15] <jmkasunich> probably fine tho - I bet ABB and Furnas and all the rest are getting them from the same place
[06:04:17] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[06:58:08] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: changed file chooser path to nc directory, more i18n, removed unused line
[07:14:20] <CIA-8> 03flo-h 07HEAD * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: same to head: changed file chooser path to nc directory, more i18n, removed unused line
[08:00:56] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, mailed
[08:01:08] <A-L-P-H-A> K`zan. sup?
[08:04:14] <K`zan> Hey A-L-P-H-A - not too much, you?
[08:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> nadda.
[08:04:26] <A-L-P-H-A> finding my friend's wife to be a real nag
[08:04:33] <A-L-P-H-A> lovely girl... but nags a lot.
[08:04:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I was getting annoyed at her... he was too... but hey... I get to leave, and not hear it. :)
[08:04:50] <K`zan> EJECT, EJECT, EJECT :-).
[08:05:06] <K`zan> Yeah, at least it belongs to him LOL!
[08:05:09] <A-L-P-H-A> yup.
[08:05:16] <A-L-P-H-A> so... made your machine CNC?
[08:05:24] <A-L-P-H-A> updates?
[08:05:33] <K`zan> Gave a shot at making my own laser center finder :).
[08:05:52] <A-L-P-H-A> and how'd that turn out?
[08:05:56] <K`zan> No, just not enough spare coins ATM. We are looking at getting a house and that is going to be a shiny penny...
[08:06:13] <A-L-P-H-A> find a man with a more shiney penny.
[08:06:15] <K`zan> Not real great, broke the device trying to get a dot rather than a dash:
[08:06:18] <A-L-P-H-A> shiny?
[08:06:34] <A-L-P-H-A> dollar store laser pointer?
[08:06:49] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/
[08:06:55] <K`zan> First projects links.
[08:07:03] <K`zan> Well, k-mart...
[08:07:14] <A-L-P-H-A> how do you know the pointer is in the middle?
[08:07:22] <K`zan> Dollar store would probably have been better :).
[08:07:33] <K`zan> center of the donut :-).
[08:07:39] <K`zan> Eyeball.
[08:07:52] <A-L-P-H-A> wouldn't an edge finder be easier?
[08:07:52] <K`zan> Worked OK, but leaves MUCH to be desired.
[08:08:04] <K`zan> Probably but not as much fun :).
[08:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> or a $99 touch probe?
[08:08:33] <K`zan> Put a mask on it with a pinhole in it and that helped, but by no means enough.
[08:08:40] <K`zan> Heh, I wish.
[08:09:12] <A-L-P-H-A> so, other than the fact it's a laser, why?
[08:09:17] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[08:09:20] <A-L-P-H-A> just wondering. :)
[08:09:42] <K`zan> Because I can(TM) ;-)
[08:09:50] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[08:10:02] <K`zan> Mostly just wondered if it would work, it does, but needs a better laser pointer.
[08:10:10] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[08:10:43] <A-L-P-H-A> too much refraction of light, to get a nice focal point.
[08:10:53] <K`zan> THat cheap edge finder with the center finder on the other end got stuck in the end mill holder and I ended up pulling it apart to get it out...
[08:11:13] <K`zan> stretched out the spring and was not able to shorten it and get it all back together :-(.
[08:11:16] <A-L-P-H-A> how'd it get stuck?
[08:11:26] <K`zan> Just stuck in the bore.
[08:11:36] <A-L-P-H-A> couldn't you tap it out from the top?
[08:11:52] <K`zan> Not sure, but I should have thought of that...
[08:11:56] <K`zan> :-).
[08:12:11] <K`zan> Got a jar of springs, should see what I have in there.
[08:12:53] <K`zan> Not spending anything for a while, getting out of this shithole will be worth it - not pleasant but worth it :-(.
[08:12:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... odd.
[08:13:08] <A-L-P-H-A> odd to have a jar of springs.
[08:13:43] <K`zan> Came in a $3 cheap used plastic box of mostly crap tools (box was handy though).
[08:13:53] <A-L-P-H-A> lovely.
[08:13:59] <A-L-P-H-A> bic clicky pen work?
[08:14:15] <K`zan> About the only good thing about scabattle is the thrift stores, or at least they used to be really good...
[08:14:38] <K`zan> not sure that is strong enough, it was a moderately husky spring.
[08:14:45] <A-L-P-H-A> seattle... it's home to grey's anatomy... it's gotta be good for whore like doctor interns. :)
[08:15:01] <K`zan> Now that I think about it I am going to look.
[08:15:14] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[08:16:00] <K`zan> Probably, 99.995% of the "medical professionals" here are interested in cash and their philosophy is pretty much: "nothing wrong with you that a prolonged course of treatments can't prolong indefinitly".
[08:16:02] <K`zan> It is bad.
[08:16:28] <K`zan> Damn near killed Jean, but they can afford FAR better lawyers...
[08:16:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I have ohip.
[08:16:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Ontario Health Insurance Plan
[08:16:40] <K`zan> ohip?
[08:16:54] <A-L-P-H-A> we don't hvae private medicle care.
[08:17:10] <K`zan> Ah, I hear that is pretty abysmal, takes forever to get to see who you need if it isn't a bandaid...
[08:17:29] <A-L-P-H-A> if it's needed, it gets done.
[08:17:36] <A-L-P-H-A> if you aren't life or death, you wait.
[08:17:37] <A-L-P-H-A> normal.
[08:17:45] <K`zan> Got a friend who just moved back to Toronto (I think) and his only real regret was that he would have to deal with that again.
[08:17:49] <A-L-P-H-A> if you want, you could go down to the states, and pay for it.
[08:18:02] <K`zan> Lots seem to...
[08:18:18] <A-L-P-H-A> uh? Our medical had problems, but way better than americants.
[08:20:41] <A-L-P-H-A> K`zan, I don't know about lots... as most of my friends are healthy, and don't need medical care.
[08:20:45] <A-L-P-H-A> did the clicky pen work?
[08:35:36] <K`zan> AS long as you are young and healthy is it a good deal :).
[08:36:09] <K`zan> Nope, but I did find a usable spring in the drawer of springs (took me a while to figure out where I put them :-).
[08:36:23] <K`zan> Got it all fixed, thanks for the inspiration A-L-P-H-A !
[08:36:40] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... does that memory problem have something to do with the i++ of age?
[08:37:03] <K`zan> As fucked up as the medical system is here, I can only imagine the horror it would be if they socialized it.
[08:37:40] <K`zan> No, too much junk in too small a place where everything(!) gets taken out to get used and then put away before you can do anything else.
[08:37:57] <K`zan> I'm just normally senile :).
[08:39:11] <K`zan> xlotex has a good deal on the 3 axis ATM, I sure wish I had the spare cash...
[08:39:38] <A-L-P-H-A> get gecko's instead.
[08:40:20] <K`zan> By the time I can afford it, they will probably be free :)
[08:41:01] <A-L-P-H-A> use them to make their money back.
[08:41:03] <A-L-P-H-A> that's what I did. :)
[08:41:21] <K`zan> Or something will be better by then and someone will pay me to get rid of them for them :-) :P:
[08:42:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm getting mesa something, with jmkasunich and SWPadnos' help... :)
[08:42:11] <K`zan> As much as I hate to wait and do without, getting out of this socialist shit pit will make it worth the wait :-/.
[08:42:24] <A-L-P-H-A> where would you move to?
[08:42:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I hear Alaska is beautiful.
[08:42:36] <K`zan> out of scabattle / kind county...
[08:42:47] <K`zan> Up close to Canda...
[08:42:48] <A-L-P-H-A> Sillicon Valley?
[08:42:50] <K`zan> closer.
[08:43:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Vancouver WA?
[08:43:05] <K`zan> Hell NO, I will never again set foot in that state.
[08:43:14] <A-L-P-H-A> aren't you in WA?
[08:43:18] <K`zan> Close to Bellingham more or less, east of there.
[08:43:19] <K`zan> Yea
[08:43:28] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno where bellingham is.
[08:43:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Redmond!
[08:43:37] <A-L-P-H-A> go there, to pay more for everything!
[08:43:58] <K`zan> About 70 or so miles north of here. Bellingham is about 10 miles from Canada...
[08:44:08] <K`zan> Maybe less
[08:44:18] <K`zan> Maybe on the border.
[08:44:16] <A-L-P-H-A> wannabe.
[08:44:28] <K`zan> Nope, not for a while now.
[08:44:42] <K`zan> I'd go to .au first.
[08:44:54] <K`zan> Not that it is a lot better...
[08:45:25] <K`zan> Got a lot of friends up there in Canada, but it isn't for me.
[08:45:53] <A-L-P-H-A> good... we don't want no freeloading yanks. :)
[08:46:23] <K`zan> I pay for what I need ;-) don't have to depend on the state to let me have what they are willing to let me have ;-).
[08:46:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm sleepy.
[08:46:32] <K`zan> Me too, been a long day.
[08:46:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I'll veg.
[08:46:55] <K`zan> Thanks again for the inspiration to get the center/edge finder fixed.
[08:47:12] <K`zan> Perhaps next time it hangs up, I'll try to pound it out from the top :).
[08:47:13] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[08:47:46] <K`zan> If I was real smart, the first thing I would get for the uMill would be the Y axis table extension.
[08:48:09] <K`zan> By the time the table is centered under the tool, you are half out of the gibs :-(.
[08:48:10] <A-L-P-H-A> a real mill would be more fun
[08:48:18] <K`zan> Probably accounts for a lot of chatter.
[08:48:20] <K`zan> Yes, it would.
[08:48:23] <A-L-P-H-A> made any elecrtonic toys?
[08:48:48] <K`zan> Not lately, did fix the cordless can opener :) and my good coffee pot though :-).
[08:49:23] <K`zan> Gonna go fall over, catch ya later! Rest (or veg :) well.
[10:00:24] <lerneaen_hydra> iab
[10:00:31] <lerneaen_hydra> 'morning
[10:32:52] <lerneaen_hydra> lasers! and sharks!
[10:35:04] <lerneaen_hydra> more friggin lasers on more friggen sharks!
[10:35:17] <robin_sz> mmmmm lasers!
[10:39:59] <awallin> sharks?
[10:40:54] <lerneaen_hydra> your cloak is ...-laser....
[10:41:12] <lerneaen_hydra> and we all know lasers go with sharks
[10:41:51] <awallin> huh?... I do work with lasers though...
[10:42:15] <lerneaen_hydra> it's a /. joke I think
[10:42:53] <lerneaen_hydra> http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/17/1418242&from=rss
[10:42:59] <lerneaen_hydra> came from that article
[10:43:11] <lerneaen_hydra> or rather, the comments
[10:44:29] <awallin> ok
[10:45:07] <lerneaen_hydra> am I the only one to have sunk so low into the mire of geekdom?
[10:46:05] <awallin> probably :)
[10:46:27] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra whimpers
[14:32:03] <lerneaen_hydra_> lerneaen_hydra_ is now known as lerneaen_hydra
[14:49:59] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py: docstrings