#emc | Logs for 2006-12-25

[00:00:16] <aip_tom> here's my ISP's coverage map: http://unwiredltd.com/map2.php
[00:00:36] <aip_tom> yeah, unless you use a repeater, 2.4 is only a few miles
[00:01:01] <aip_tom> o'reilly & associates ran some 2.4 ghz repeaters 20 miles
[00:01:26] <aip_tom> ... but that was point-to-point linking with directional antennas, not omnidirectional antennas providing coverage over a metropolital area
[00:02:01] <aip_tom> I'm just soooo happy to not have to deal with the phone company anymore. Too much of my life has been spent on hold already.
[00:07:42] <robin_sz> cool yule :)
[00:12:12] <alex_joni> aip_tom: I've seen an 450km+ 2.4GHz link
[00:12:18] <alex_joni> with decent boosters though
[00:14:38] <aip_tom> 450km? that's got to have repeaters along the way, right?
[00:14:48] <alex_joni> nope
[00:14:52] <alex_joni> but it was a test only
[00:14:57] <alex_joni> they used 3m+ dishes
[00:15:24] <aip_tom> interesting
[00:15:59] <aip_tom> just from the curvature of the earth, you'd have to have both antennas 200m from ground level or so
[00:16:24] <aip_tom> (or, again, favorable geography)
[00:16:58] <aip_tom> nifty, in any case
[00:29:09] <A-L-P-H-A> you can get some good distance with just 60cm dishses (sat tv)
[00:45:31] <aip_tom> A-L-P-H-A: it's easier when you only have to go through 16 miles of air, namely, up at a satellite in geostationary orbit (22200 miles)
[00:45:53] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[00:46:02] <aip_tom> harder to go 50 miles terrestrial than 45000 mi RT
[00:46:11] <A-L-P-H-A> looking at upgrading my stepper motors on my lathe.
[00:46:15] <aip_tom> just funny how to physics works, that's all
[00:46:19] <A-L-P-H-A> something that will like 72VDC.
[00:46:27] <aip_tom> more torque? speed?
[00:46:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm looking atm. :D
[00:46:57] <A-L-P-H-A> let me find my old motors... which are fine...
[00:47:32] <aip_tom> heh, no specific problem you want to fix? me, I just want to get a cnc lathe, but have promised myself the mill gets fully working before I buy another broken machine
[00:48:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just being picky... I have a working system, I just want it sell my old power supply
[00:49:36] <A-L-P-H-A> current torque is 16kg*cm
[00:50:02] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.shinano.com/xampp/docs/SST83D.pdf it's a sst83d1c020
[00:50:53] <A-L-P-H-A> what the heck is a pps?
[00:50:59] <A-L-P-H-A> pulses per sec?
[00:51:58] <aip_tom> sounds right to me
[00:52:40] <aip_tom> I'm more familiar with "steps per second", but I've only done one stepper motor project
[00:56:38] <A-L-P-H-A> other set up motors, that I have running on my mill at the sst83d3c010. which are 42kg*cm
[00:58:27] <A-L-P-H-A> 722 oz/inch
[01:09:17] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders the 450km 2.4ghz link
[01:09:42] <robin_sz> you'd need minimum o 200 foot towers at each end of the link
[01:10:04] <alex_joni> robin_sz: there was a 2000m mountain on one end
[01:10:05] <alex_joni> :D
[01:10:12] <robin_sz> that would help
[01:11:31] <alex_joni> sorry.. I misremembererd :)
[01:11:39] <alex_joni> 310km was the longest professional one
[01:11:45] <alex_joni> http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/3263/
[01:12:34] <aip_tom> robin_sz: isn't it 6 feet/mile curvature? 450*.6km/mi*6 ft/mi = 1620ft, or about 500m difference between the two sides
[01:13:28] <robin_sz> well, no
[01:13:48] <alex_joni> robin_sz: the homebrew version was only 110km
[01:13:50] <robin_sz> firstly, you only need to do the distance to the horizon
[01:14:11] <alex_joni> you need to remember the fresnel zone
[01:14:14] <alex_joni> and keep that clear
[01:14:19] <robin_sz> and the first fresenl zone
[01:14:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:14:49] <alex_joni> so you need at least 2 x the hight of half the fresnel zone
[01:15:16] <robin_sz> i was about to do the friis path loss calc ...
[01:15:21] <robin_sz> but its christmas :)
[01:15:23] <aip_tom> * aip_tom goes and looks up "fresnel zone"
[01:15:37] <A-L-P-H-A> bah. just wait till a full moon, and use the moon as a relay! :D
[01:15:46] <robin_sz> alex_joni, de g1yfg :)
[01:16:12] <A-L-P-H-A> waiting for my beer to chill in a bath of ice + water + salt.
[01:16:27] <robin_sz> when I did amateur radio stuff I did quite a bit on 23cms, 13cms and 10ghz
[01:16:33] <robin_sz> mostly 23cms I guess
[01:16:34] <aip_tom> my number were based on boating, as you try to see how far away that container ship is on the open ocean
[01:17:36] <A-L-P-H-A> at around 2000 - 2500 ft in the air, and jumping outta a plane, you think you see the curvature... I wonder if that's true.
[01:17:45] <robin_sz> 450 2 / 1.6 / 8 * 12 / p
[01:17:45] <robin_sz> 93.75000
[01:17:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought I noticed it... but then again... I could be wrong
[01:17:51] <robin_sz> see, 93 feet
[01:18:24] <robin_sz> well, 94, line of sight to horizon .. plus yor fresenl zone
[01:19:03] <robin_sz> I used to do a bit of link plannin when I worked in the comms department of the BBC
[01:19:36] <robin_sz> they'd ask about a point to point link, I'd put the coardiantes into the computer, press a few buttons and see if any hills were in the way
[01:19:43] <robin_sz> "is it going to work?"
[01:19:57] <robin_sz> "not without tunnelling equiment!"
[01:20:58] <aip_tom> A-L-P-H-A: sure, you can see earth curvature from 2000 ft, it's subtle though. easier if you're in a flat area.
[01:21:02] <A-L-P-H-A> holy shit, the us military is pushing for recruits.
[01:21:16] <robin_sz> heh
[01:21:21] <aip_tom> robin_sz: sounds like an interesting job
[01:21:22] <A-L-P-H-A> commercials galore.
[01:21:24] <robin_sz> conscription is just around the corner
[01:21:47] <robin_sz> aip_tom, like all jobs, it is fun at first, but soon dull
[01:22:13] <aip_tom> yeah, 3-6 mo is my limit for jobs these days. contract work is best for me
[01:22:42] <robin_sz> I decided to run my own business, I felt I was no longer employable
[01:23:42] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: cause you're just so damn sexy.
[01:23:54] <robin_sz> * robin_sz checks
[01:24:06] <aip_tom> 1099s only here, haven't gotten a w-2 in 5 years (and very happy about it)
[01:24:35] <aip_tom> running your own business lets you keep odd hours, too, great for a night owl like me
[01:24:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm missing parts of the conversation
[01:24:42] <robin_sz> ummm
[01:25:00] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A, did you understand that bit about 1099's ?
[01:25:19] <aip_tom> purple?
[01:25:50] <robin_sz> in places yes, but the swelling is going down no
[01:25:50] <robin_sz> w
[01:26:20] <aip_tom> :)
[01:26:30] <A-L-P-H-A> nope.
[01:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> ohhh.
[01:26:40] <A-L-P-H-A> 10-9-9
[01:26:45] <aip_tom> 1099 are tax forms given to independent contractors in the US
[01:26:46] <A-L-P-H-A> wait.
[01:26:47] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[01:26:51] <robin_sz> ahh
[01:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm Canadian... not Americant.
[01:27:02] <robin_sz> and w-2?
[01:27:07] <aip_tom> w-2 forms are given to employees of companies, and have federal income tax deductions already removed
[01:27:24] <robin_sz> k
[01:27:42] <aip_tom> the employer of w2 employees can set the time employees get to work, when they go home, how they do the work, etc.
[01:27:51] <robin_sz> right
[01:28:04] <aip_tom> 1099 contract workers, on the other hand, can not be told when to work, or how to get the work done (legally speaking)
[01:28:11] <robin_sz> right
[01:28:24] <robin_sz> I think we call w2 PAYE
[01:28:28] <robin_sz> pay as you earn
[01:28:40] <robin_sz> I have 7 PAYE employees now
[01:29:07] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahaha
[01:29:28] <aip_tom> yeah, I only hire people via 1099 - I don't want to take care of setting times, etc. oh, and 1099 people have to provide all their own tools, too, so you don't have to give them a computer, hand tools, etc.
[01:29:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Americant Chopper, the family shows up to a random family, "oh, we totally weren't expecting you"
[01:29:58] <A-L-P-H-A> "so that means you didn't get us anything" (while they're holding a tonne of boxes)
[01:30:19] <A-L-P-H-A> "oh of course we did" (random dad steals the son's new console gaming system)
[01:30:20] <robin_sz> sadly, this means I now have to get up at 7:30 each day to open the factories and etc and generally "be there"
[01:30:32] <A-L-P-H-A> "is that all you got?"
[01:30:45] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: hire someone you trust to run the company
[01:30:46] <aip_tom> robin_sz: ouch
[01:31:05] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: or hurry up, and accelerate your children's development, and force them in to work.
[01:31:07] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A, its getting that way ,... probably by mid year
[01:31:31] <robin_sz> to be fair, it would probably be OK if I turned up around lunchtime
[01:31:49] <robin_sz> stuff would get done, but I just like being there
[01:32:22] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: how old are you kids?
[01:32:28] <A-L-P-H-A> your
[01:32:34] <robin_sz> 3,4,6
[01:33:07] <robin_sz> thats going to need growth hormones at a minimum to getr them out there in 6 months
[01:33:19] <robin_sz> proably some radiation treatment too
[01:33:20] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... just another 8 years, for the 6 to start working legally, right?
[01:33:26] <robin_sz> no, 10
[01:33:38] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, Canucks can start work legally at 14.
[01:33:42] <A-L-P-H-A> not full time, part time
[01:33:51] <robin_sz> 16 here I think
[01:33:54] <A-L-P-H-A> full time, I think at 16... but only if they aren't in school.
[01:34:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I think there's a new law soon, that says you have to finish school, so you can keep your drivers license.
[01:34:22] <robin_sz> I employed a kid once .. 18, never again!
[01:35:15] <robin_sz> claimed to have done a welding course .. then tried to weld mild steel to alloy plate with a mig torch
[01:35:30] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[01:35:37] <A-L-P-H-A> so he "held" or "seen" a welder before.
[01:35:42] <robin_sz> we let him try for a while
[01:35:42] <A-L-P-H-A> that was the course.
[01:35:53] <robin_sz> after all, if he managed we would have been rich!
[01:35:55] <A-L-P-H-A> so how soon did you fire him?
[01:36:06] <robin_sz> 6 weeks. the pain was too much
[01:36:17] <A-L-P-H-A> 6 weeks??
[01:36:19] <aip_tom> 14 in US for part time, 20 hrs/week, 16 for full time
[01:36:19] <A-L-P-H-A> that long?
[01:36:23] <robin_sz> I'll give anyone a fair chance
[01:36:32] <aip_tom> with exceptions for farm workers and such
[01:38:10] <aip_tom> i've seen really good 18-20 yo welders, but they grew up welding, not just taken a class
[01:38:25] <aip_tom> most young uns just don't seem to realize how much they don't know
[01:38:36] <A-L-P-H-A> screw working hard... work smarter.
[01:38:40] <A-L-P-H-A> not harder.
[01:38:46] <aip_tom> * aip_tom could say the same about myself much of the time
[01:39:28] <aip_tom> working smarter only applies to some problem domains, though
[01:40:02] <aip_tom> not to stuff like bussing dishes, practicing music, etc
[01:40:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I think there are many (not saying all) entertainers are scum.
[01:41:06] <A-L-P-H-A> Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Courtney Love ...
[01:41:10] <aip_tom> heh, yeah, and they're a lot of fun, too! :)
[01:41:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Some cool ones... like George Colney (sp), he hates the limelight, and just stays outta it. He seems normal, and a good actor!
[01:42:16] <A-L-P-H-A> J Lo, and other fuckups... argh.
[01:42:36] <aip_tom> clooney seems cool, yeah. I don't watch tv or listen to radio, so I'm clueless about the latest celebrity hijinx
[01:42:57] <SWPadnos> you can read all about it in the weekly "Midnight Star"
[01:43:21] <A-L-P-H-A> aip_tom: umm... britney spears is showing her snatch on camera. Same with Paris Hilton... nasty skanky snatch... if you don't want to puke, don't go googling for it.
[01:43:32] <aip_tom> oops, I went over a mental line there. I'm gonna get back to coding here... ADCs need to be read, DIOs broken out, and data logged
[01:43:48] <aip_tom> cheers, all!
[01:43:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:44:18] <aip_tom> * aip_tom rides off into the other windows of his computer
[01:44:52] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: hey dude.
[01:45:01] <SWPadnos> hi
[01:45:15] <A-L-P-H-A> what's going on?
[01:45:24] <robin_sz> christmas
[01:45:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Merry Christmas, and remember Kwanzaa is fake.
[01:45:52] <robin_sz> its the winter solstice anyway
[01:45:57] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[01:46:21] <A-L-P-H-A> Christmas was originally a Pagan holiday anyways.
[01:51:46] <alex_joni> what's kwanzaa?
[01:52:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Kwanzaa is fake... all you have to know.
[01:52:23] <A-L-P-H-A> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa
[01:52:25] <SWPadnos> christmas is likely even more fake ...
[01:52:27] <jepler> "Kwanzaa (or Kwaanza) is a week-long Pan-African secular holiday primarily honoring African-American heritage."
[01:52:43] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: Christmas itself is... but the celebration of the winter solstice isn't. :)
[01:53:07] <SWPadnos> the solstice isn't Christmas
[01:53:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Christmas has been fake for about 1700 years. Kwanzaa has been fake for 40 years
[01:53:22] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: it originally was.
[01:53:36] <jepler> the solstice just isn't solstice without belgian-enclave tofu loaf
[01:53:54] <SWPadnos> no, Christmas was invented so that Christians wouldn't be interested in celebrating the heathen Solstice holiday ...
[01:53:58] <A-L-P-H-A> tofu loaf? sounds yummy... what flavour?
[01:54:27] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: you soak the tofu in a mixture of ginger paste, soy sauce, and hot sauce for a few hours, then toss the thin slices on the grill
[01:54:39] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler: that sounds good.
[01:54:45] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: it is
[01:54:58] <A-L-P-H-A> but alas I'm having turkey tomorrow night.
[01:55:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe the hot garlic/chili sauce we have (Vietnamese, I think) would be good for that
[01:55:27] <alex_joni> good night all and merry christmas
[01:55:33] <alex_joni> and kwanzaa for A-L-P-H-A
[01:55:40] <SWPadnos> night Alex - have a happy set of holidays :)
[01:55:44] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: shit... that married women that's flirting with me is Vietnamese... she's soooooo cute.
[01:55:55] <A-L-P-H-A> but I gotta stay away from situations where I'm alone with her.
[01:56:02] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni: later.
[01:56:08] <SWPadnos> indeedy
[01:56:15] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: way later (4am now)
[01:56:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm a non-practising roman catholic.
[01:56:57] <SWPadnos> I like the way I put it recently: "I'm an infidel for all religions" :)
[01:57:10] <A-L-P-H-A> My dad is "I God I trust"
[01:57:16] <A-L-P-H-A> "In God I trust"
[01:57:41] <SWPadnos> well, I guess it's working for him, huh?
[01:58:09] <A-L-P-H-A> yup.
[01:58:13] <A-L-P-H-A> so far at least.
[01:58:15] <SWPadnos> (he hasn't been hit by a bus yet, right?)
[01:59:14] <A-L-P-H-A> it's the money thing... 'In God we trust"
[01:59:46] <A-L-P-H-A> shit it's only 9pm
[01:59:52] <A-L-P-H-A> and I'm drunk off one beer... I need more food.
[01:59:55] <SWPadnos> might be time to start a movie
[02:05:27] <A-L-P-H-A> yumyum.
[02:05:35] <skunkworks> they are playing alien marithon.
[02:05:43] <skunkworks> on max
[02:05:52] <A-L-P-H-A> ice cold beer.
[02:06:37] <skunkworks> started looking for a nice christmas movie - but ended up with this :)
[02:08:13] <A-L-P-H-A> marathon?
[02:08:15] <A-L-P-H-A> aliens?
[02:08:32] <A-L-P-H-A> "Aliens" with s.weavor?
[02:08:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I like Species instead... hot women instead.
[02:09:01] <A-L-P-H-A> oooh. There's also Starship Troopers. hahaha
[02:09:44] <skunkworks> yes weavor. first one was alien - then aliens ....
[02:10:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't have Max... we're canucks, and we only have igloos, dog sleds, and just recently snow mobiles.
[02:11:24] <skunkworks> what about snow shoes?
[02:21:11] <A-L-P-H-A> and fur skins
[02:39:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Why do I try to talk to this girl?
[02:39:23] <A-L-P-H-A> she drives me nuts... in a good way.
[02:39:26] <A-L-P-H-A> but oh well...
[09:30:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[09:35:24] <etla> anyone here ?
[09:38:53] <alex_joni> nope
[09:38:57] <etla> ;)
[09:39:02] <etla> merry christmas
[09:39:09] <alex_joni> merry christmas
[09:39:16] <alex_joni> was just about to leave
[09:39:22] <alex_joni> :)
[09:39:45] <etla> how much do you know about installing joomla ?
[09:40:02] <etla> I'd like to have it at mysite.com/joomla first while I develop it and later move it to mysite.com/
[09:40:09] <etla> how much of a problem will that be ?
[09:40:18] <alex_joni> not much
[09:40:30] <alex_joni> 1-2 files to change iirc
[09:40:34] <etla> ok, guess I will try it
[09:40:48] <alex_joni> access rights is the biggest problem
[09:40:58] <alex_joni> if you have ssh then it's good
[09:41:31] <alex_joni> although files need to be owned/writeable by the web process
[09:41:37] <alex_joni> gotta run.. bbl
[09:41:38] <etla> probably only ftp...
[09:41:42] <etla> ok, bye
[09:41:53] <alex_joni> later
[13:23:42] <Bo^Dick> i need help with this, http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/c_lim.gif
[15:26:12] <tomp> Merry Christmas to all :)
[15:29:15] <skunkworks> Merry Christmas everyone.
[15:30:11] <skunkworks> jepler: nice work on the documentation and manual for the pluto.. Very powerful little piece of equipment.
[15:33:07] <skunkworks> The pluto has landed ;) funny
[15:33:55] <jepler> I just hope it all works according to the documentation
[15:35:19] <skunkworks> I am not worried.
[15:36:30] <jepler> the index pulse has never been well-tested, and I have some more pending changes to make it edge-sensitive instead of level-sensitive
[15:36:51] <jepler> I'd have to take apart the NIST lathe and wire the spindle to the pluto board to test it, and I just haven't found the time or inclination
[15:44:34] <skunkworks> I don't have a lathe setup - but I may be able to test homing on index at some point. and even later maybe rigid tapping :)
[15:47:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (pluto_servo.rbf quad.v): Make index pulse edge triggered
[15:47:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pluto_servo.html: made index pulse edge sensitive
[15:47:56] <jepler> I'll commit and let someone else test it :-P
[15:47:57] <jepler> it's probably right
[15:48:32] <jepler> now over 6 polling cycles you have to have 000111 to register an index pulse
[15:49:39] <jepler> so noise can introduce up to 50ns of "opposite" input value without triggering an additional index pulse
[16:00:41] <alex_joni> hi guys
[16:04:37] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
[16:05:27] <alex_joni> jepler: oopsy :)
[16:07:58] <jepler> hum
[16:12:00] <jepler> oh -- it works for me because I'm on sim (hacked to compile realtime drivers)
[16:12:13] <jepler> er, hardware drivers
[16:12:40] <alex_joni> heh
[16:13:12] <alex_joni> you probably know way more about it :)
[16:13:23] <alex_joni> I would have guessed you didn't commit a .h file
[16:13:27] <jepler> I removed one
[16:13:31] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok :D
[16:13:34] <jepler> it's generated from another file by the build process
[16:14:58] <alex_joni> just read that
[16:15:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/Submakefile: fix building on systems with realtime
[16:15:51] <jepler> luckily I can test building for a realtime system even without running the realtime kernel
[16:15:59] <jepler> (install everything but boot the non-rt kernel)
[16:16:10] <alex_joni> really?
[16:16:11] <alex_joni> nice
[16:16:25] <jepler> Linux sofa 2.6.15-27-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 8 18:00:07 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[16:16:30] <jepler> ./configure --with-realtime=/usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/ --enable-run-in-place
[16:17:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[16:17:46] <alex_joni> guess we did a few things right then :)
[16:17:47] <SWPadnos> jepler, what happens if you get some noise, but the index line looks like this: 00010101101001010110101111111 (which looks like contact bounce)
[16:17:48] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: hi
[16:18:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> merry christmas all :)
[16:18:24] <jepler> SWPadnos: hm, good point
[16:18:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> logger_emc: bookmark
[16:18:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-12-25.txt
[16:19:04] <SWPadnos> I think you have to use one mechanism to detect calid level changes, then another to detect edges
[16:19:15] <SWPadnos> but edge detection should be on the debounced signal
[16:19:46] <jepler> that makes sense, I wish I'd thought it through a bit more
[16:19:49] <cradek> I wonder if it's better to miss an index or get an extra one
[16:19:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how is debounce usually done? only allow one state change per X ms?
[16:20:22] <cradek> for threading it's fine to miss one, for homing it's bad
[16:20:23] <jepler> cradek: miss one probably
[16:20:28] <jepler> er, yeah,
[16:20:34] <SWPadnos> in hardware, there are many methods. for software, usually you count the number of consecutive same readings, and when the count hits some value, you register the new state
[16:20:50] <SWPadnos> bad to get extras, because it may re-reset the counter
[16:20:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I see
[16:21:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if this is a lathe spindle encoder we're talking about it's much better to miss an index rather than get a false one
[16:21:27] <SWPadnos> lh: or you can do things like XOR to see if it's the same for 2 readings ..., but it all boils down to the same thing
[16:21:51] <SWPadnos> if you miss an index, the apparent speed goes down ...
[16:21:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SWPadnos: so time delay essentially
[16:22:02] <SWPadnos> (depsnding on how that's calculated)
[16:22:19] <SWPadnos> kind of - "if it's this way for X time, then it's valid"
[16:22:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah
[16:22:55] <SWPadnos> there are two interesting methods (that I know of) that are a little more sophisticated
[16:23:17] <Bo^Dick> are you guys familiar with kirchhoffs laws?
[16:23:38] <SWPadnos> one, which is very suitable for hardware, is to have a counter for each input. every sample period, you increment the counter if the input is a 1, or decrement if it's a 0
[16:23:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: the first two basic ones only :p
[16:23:56] <SWPadnos> when the value hits some threshold, set the debounced output to 1
[16:24:05] <SWPadnos> (going up, that is)
[16:24:21] <SWPadnos> if the value hits a different, lower threshold, going down, then set the output to 0
[16:24:25] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: i've got some trouble with this circuit, http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/c_lim.gif
[16:24:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SWPadnos: what is it that's better about that than some RC loop?
[16:24:42] <SWPadnos> it doesn't require any external components? ;)
[16:24:56] <SWPadnos> RC is often better/simpler, but harder to tune
[16:25:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, that's true
[16:25:19] <SWPadnos> (ie, you can't decide after the fact that you really want a 5uS time constant instead of the 50ns time constant you built)
[16:25:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> rb
[16:25:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> brb
[16:27:09] <SWPadnos> Bo^Dick, that circuit can't be analyzed without knowing the transfer function of the LM317 (which I'm too lazy to look up)
[16:27:29] <Bo^Dick> SWPadnos: really
[16:27:31] <jepler> this is a "saturating" counter (e.g., 0-1=0, 15+1=15 if it's a 4-bit counter) then?
[16:27:42] <SWPadnos> jepler, yes
[16:28:08] <Bo^Dick> SWPadnos: i thought one could use the fact that Vref is constant and such things
[16:28:41] <SWPadnos> and for a 4-bit counter, you could set the thresholds to 15 and 0 probably
[16:29:17] <SWPadnos> I think that for a constant current supply, you need the load in series with the sense circuit, not in parallel
[16:29:47] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[16:30:10] <jepler> here's a constant-current regulator I built: http://emergent.unpy.net/projects/01111254927
[16:30:19] <SWPadnos> consider that the short circuit shown should have infinite current with almost no voltage at the node between R1 and R2, but if you stuck a 10 MOhm resistor in there, it would be significantly less
[16:30:42] <jepler> you hook a number of identical loads between X3 and X4 (making sure that X3-4 is used)
[16:30:56] <SWPadnos> yep - note that the sense circuit is in series with the sensed load
[16:31:00] <jepler> I don't know what this c_lim.gif circuit will do
[16:31:11] <SWPadnos> it would likely get very hot, then melt
[16:32:16] <Bo^Dick> the c_lim circuit is a modification of this (taken from LM317 sheet), http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/currlim.gif
[16:32:40] <SWPadnos> jepler, a possibly lower gate-usage method is to have a shift register, and take the AND of all bits and the OR of all bits. when the AND and OR results are the same, the output is valid
[16:33:27] <SWPadnos> heh - I saw that one, and really didn't want to go looking in my textbooks to remember how to analyze it :)
[16:33:46] <SWPadnos> you could try in #electronics or ##electronics (whichever it was)
[16:34:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm - you can still get glitches with that method though
[16:35:17] <SWPadnos> ah - no you can't
[16:36:27] <jepler> yeah I was still working from the shift register
[16:36:38] <Bo^Dick> if one takes the transfer function into account, could i work out a transfer function then?
[16:36:45] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/291686
[16:36:55] <jepler> (dunno if you can read that)
[16:37:54] <Bo^Dick> it was ages ago i dealt with vhdl
[16:39:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - that looks relatively OK
[16:39:29] <Bo^Dick> i can't remember a transfer function in the sheet but i better have a look again
[16:39:52] <alex_joni> jepler: 6 is an arbitrary number?
[16:39:55] <jepler> alex_joni: yes
[16:40:02] <alex_joni> ok
[16:41:21] <SWPadnos> jepler, I suspect you can use 8 with no logic usage penalty (just because the LEs are probably 4 bits wide)
[16:42:31] <jepler> let's find out -- I currently use 537 resources
[16:43:21] <alex_joni> out of?
[16:43:30] <SWPadnos> 590 or something ;)
[16:43:44] <jepler> 576
[16:43:54] <SWPadnos> eek - even worse
[16:44:02] <SWPadnos> won't you be happy to get your 5i20? ;)
[16:44:03] <jepler> using 8 bits I go up to 551 used
[16:44:12] <SWPadnos> hmm
[16:44:23] <SWPadnos> and the input is a shift register?
[16:44:55] <jepler> somewhere in all these lines it must tell me whether it inferred a shift register
[16:45:17] <SWPadnos> the shift register would be in the input stage, not the edge detection stage you pasted
[16:45:33] <jepler> always @(posedge clk) Zd <= {Zd[4:0], Z};
[16:45:36] <jepler> this line is the shift register
[16:45:48] <SWPadnos> oh, right
[16:46:42] <SWPadnos> and Zd is a register? (like reg last_good) ...
[16:46:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: did you get an answer?
[16:47:00] <jepler> SWPadnos: yes
[16:47:01] <jepler> reg [5:0] Zd;
[16:47:18] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm obviously not looking at all the source ;)
[16:47:21] <jepler> (it has to be, otherwise I couldn't make an <= assignment in an always block)
[16:48:53] <jepler> (not that I should expect you to know that)
[16:49:42] <SWPadnos> nope. I don't know that :)
[16:49:59] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should read a book on VHDL or something
[16:50:49] <jepler> verilog. vhdl is a different language.
[16:51:13] <SWPadnos> that would be the "or something" clause
[16:51:15] <jepler> they seem to have similar capabilities but the syntax of vhdl is even more verbose
[16:52:05] <jepler> http://www.fpga4fun.com/DesignEntry.html
[16:54:07] <SWPadnos> I think verilog is a little more high-level, but VHDL is good for specifying "I want these things in the chip" ...
[16:54:52] <jepler> quartus seems to be good at noticing that something I've written should be implemented by a special "megafunction" for this device..
[16:55:05] <SWPadnos> oh. that's good
[16:55:20] <jepler> counters, comparators, and maybe shift registers
[16:55:25] <SWPadnos> that's where you need the vendor tools (or $30k+ toolsets from Mentor)
[16:55:31] <skunkworks> stupid question - how does the mesa board do index then?
[16:55:52] <SWPadnos> the code is in src/hal/drivers/m5i20/countere.vhd
[16:56:07] <skunkworks> ouch ;)
[16:56:09] <jepler> for example, when I put in the bit-reversing for interleaved PWM, it decided to implement it with the otherwise unused SRAM as a big LUT
[16:56:17] <SWPadnos> that's cool
[16:57:05] <SWPadnos> have you seen any od the write-ups on genetic algorithms for FPGAs?
[16:57:08] <jepler> skunkworks: they seem to use the count-up-or-down method that swp described: -- deadended counter for index input filter --
[16:57:09] <SWPadnos> s/od/of/
[16:57:31] <jepler> SWPadnos: long ago I read something nontechnical about a researcher in the UK who was doing that
[16:58:00] <SWPadnos> the one I remember was where they were trying to make a tone detector to detect 1 KHz tones
[16:58:14] <jepler> http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/adrianth/cacm99/node3.html
[16:58:20] <jepler> yep I think that's the one I read about as well
[16:58:31] <tomp> lut in sram? does that mean it needs a loader?
[16:58:41] <SWPadnos> I thought it was interesting that the configs they ended up with didn't work on other chips
[16:59:38] <SWPadnos> tomp, the SRAM is (or can be) loaded at the same time as the FPGA config is read
[16:59:54] <jepler> tomp: the initial sram contents are transferred with the rest of the fpga configuration (which happens every time emc2 starts up)
[16:59:55] <SWPadnos> either at boot-up for some devices, or when the software is run on the PC for the Pluto board
[17:00:11] <skunkworks> what about using the actual encoder count to 'window' the index pulse?
[17:00:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is thinking out loud
[17:00:51] <skunkworks> granted you would need to get one good index pulse to begin with
[17:01:03] <alex_joni> or a few to narrow the window down
[17:01:10] <SWPadnos> you can't do it by counting unless you know the encoder count a priori
[17:01:32] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how about counting the counts between pulses
[17:01:37] <alex_joni> between indexes I mean
[17:01:48] <SWPadnos> sure, but then you need some special startup code
[17:01:58] <SWPadnos> which is a PITA in hardware, I think
[17:02:03] <jepler> I think you could do "fake index" by just pretending an index pulse came along every time the true count was 0 mod N
[17:02:14] <alex_joni> may be, but it's a way to detect if it counts reliably
[17:02:15] <jepler> if so, I'd just do it inside emc, not in pluto
[17:02:29] <jepler> but then you'll never be synchronized to the real index pulse (if it exists)
[17:02:32] <jepler> bbl
[17:02:46] <tomp> thanks, I didnt know that it got 'booted', then it's even more useful
[17:06:12] <SWPadnos> they all do, unless they're CPLDs, or "LAPU" - Live at Power Up
[17:06:20] <SWPadnos> (that's what Actel calls it anyway)
[17:08:35] <SWPadnos> ok, time to prepare for the sister and family arriving. see you all later
[17:10:07] <skunkworks> same here (not SWPadnos family but my own)
[19:26:21] <alex_joni> darn HDD
[19:26:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> dead?
[19:26:33] <alex_joni> not quite
[19:26:47] <alex_joni> but it's making awfull sounds.. like power is failing
[19:26:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh
[19:26:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> anything important on it?
[19:27:00] <alex_joni> it was the second HDD
[19:27:08] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: not really, but it's not 1 month old
[19:27:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh
[19:27:19] <alex_joni> it's a replacement unit for the old failed one :/
[19:27:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> maybe you're just unlocky
[19:27:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> heh, nice
[19:27:29] <alex_joni> yeah.. very :/
[19:27:43] <alex_joni> maybe it's the PSU..
[19:27:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> crappy no-name?
[19:28:00] <alex_joni> the PSU?
[19:28:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> yeah
[19:28:18] <alex_joni> Speed .. never heard of them
[19:28:20] <alex_joni> 420W
[19:29:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> probaly far under 420W then
[19:29:53] <alex_joni> the older one was 300 iirc
[19:29:55] <alex_joni> and it was ok
[19:30:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> what else have you got in it?
[19:30:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> (cpu, graphics card)
[19:30:33] <alex_joni> yeah, both of those :D
[19:30:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> :p
[19:30:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> you don't say
[19:30:54] <alex_joni> Athlon XP 1400+
[19:31:05] <alex_joni> Nvidia GeForce something
[19:31:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> thouroubred core?
[19:31:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> err, spelling is messed up
[19:31:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> do you recall if it was a geforce 2,3 or ti4x00?
[19:31:51] <alex_joni> 5200 iirc
[19:32:07] <alex_joni> agp only, no separate power feed to it
[19:32:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh, then that shouldnt draw too much power
[19:32:19] <alex_joni> that's what I thought
[19:32:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 20-30watts or so
[19:32:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> the cpu on the other hand
[19:32:31] <alex_joni> I got an SB Live (EMU 10k1)
[19:32:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> a lot more, IIRC around 70-80
[19:32:38] <alex_joni> and a crappy network card
[19:32:47] <alex_joni> plus one HDD (120G)
[19:32:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> they don't take much at all though
[19:32:55] <alex_joni> and this was the second one (200G)
[19:32:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> maybe 20 for all that stuff
[19:33:04] <alex_joni> WD2000JB
[19:33:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 30 with the other harddisk
[19:33:16] <alex_joni> still way under 300W
[19:33:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> yeah
[19:33:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> probably around 120-150 or so
[19:33:32] <alex_joni> PSU is dead cold, I felt it up
[19:34:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> felt it up?
[19:34:19] <alex_joni> put my hand on it
[19:34:27] <alex_joni> and on the air coming out of it
[19:34:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh
[19:35:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> that is a good sign
[19:35:16] <alex_joni> thought so, I'm still gonna replace it
[19:35:52] <alex_joni> the odd thing is that the old one failed in the same way
[19:35:58] <alex_joni> but wasn't plugged into the PC
[19:36:03] <alex_joni> it was in an USB rack
[19:36:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh
[19:36:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> funny
[19:36:44] <robin_sz> meep
[19:36:52] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: hilarious :/
[19:36:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> * Lerneaen_Hydra_ pokes robin_sz
[19:37:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> alex_joni: :p
[19:37:11] <robin_sz> yow
[19:37:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I poked you, it's not like I took a carbide spike and impaled you or anything :p
[19:38:12] <robin_sz> anyone remeber dos?
[19:38:20] <alex_joni> vaguely
[19:38:47] <robin_sz> I get lots of "[44;s\" like char strings on the screen isntread of text formatting
[19:39:01] <alex_joni> eek
[19:39:06] <alex_joni> wrong charset?
[19:39:11] <robin_sz> is there some charset ?/
[19:39:12] <alex_joni> SET PAGE something mumble
[19:39:29] <robin_sz> yeah, it was the something mumble part t
[19:39:35] <robin_sz> hat escapes me
[19:41:37] <alex_joni> set codepage
[19:41:56] <robin_sz> set codepage mumble?
[19:43:04] <alex_joni> 437
[19:43:18] <alex_joni> http://www.i18nguy.com/unicode/codepages.html#ibmdos
[19:44:38] <robin_sz> in autoexec.bat or config.sys?
[19:44:45] <alex_joni> config.sys
[19:45:23] <alex_joni> what was the letter you pushed when you got [44;s\ ?
[19:45:25] <cradek> robin_sz: load ansi.sys
[19:46:10] <robin_sz> ummm
[19:46:16] <robin_sz> in config.sys
[19:46:26] <robin_sz> ??
[19:46:30] <cradek> yeah
[19:46:39] <cradek> device=c:\somepath\ansi.sys
[19:51:01] <robin_sz> hmmm .. no effect
[19:51:41] <alex_joni> that's about all I still remember about dos
[19:52:11] <robin_sz> yeah,
[19:52:15] <robin_sz> more than I do
[19:52:30] <robin_sz> its freedos, so maybe not exactly identical
[19:52:36] <alex_joni> so.. how does this behave exactly?
[19:52:49] <alex_joni> you push letters on the keyboard and get strange things on the screen?
[19:53:20] <robin_sz> when running a particular app yes
[19:53:32] <robin_sz> I thinks its supposed ot be some sort of crappy text formatting
[19:53:36] <robin_sz> text green etc
[19:53:47] <robin_sz> but it comes out as ;36;m etc
[19:53:48] <alex_joni> ah..
[19:54:01] <robin_sz> same happens in XP dos box
[19:54:05] <cradek> are you sure you got the path to ansi.sys right and you rebooted?
[19:54:05] <alex_joni> doesn't it run under dosemu ?
[19:54:16] <cradek> I'm pretty sure that IS the fix
[19:55:15] <robin_sz> ah, no ansi.sys
[19:56:21] <cradek> ??
[19:57:02] <cradek> http://www.kegel.com/nansi/
[19:58:02] <cradek> maybe it's nansi.sys
[19:58:52] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:58:55] <robin_sz> seems to be
[19:59:17] <alex_joni> no ansi.sys = nansi.sys
[19:59:49] <robin_sz> thats better
[19:59:58] <cradek> fixed it?
[20:00:06] <robin_sz> kinda
[20:00:22] <robin_sz> now I can see the screen, but it crashes part way thrugh :)
[20:00:30] <cradek> well that's "better"
[20:00:32] <alex_joni> heh, everlasting spring of knowledge in here
[20:00:51] <cradek> more like a mud pit than a spring
[20:01:30] <alex_joni> same thing really
[20:03:33] <robin_sz> all I want to do is reset the waste ink pads on my printer :(
[20:04:22] <alex_joni> robin_sz: why not boot a DOS from floppy?
[20:04:23] <robin_sz> of course, they are not *actually* full, but the counter thinks they are
[20:04:30] <alex_joni> then plug this floppy in?
[20:04:38] <robin_sz> right
[20:04:45] <robin_sz> and I get a DOS flopy from?
[20:04:49] <alex_joni> google?
[20:05:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> or freedos which boots from CD (iirc)
[20:06:32] <robin_sz> I laready have freedos
[20:07:25] <alex_joni> http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm
[20:08:31] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I unplugged one HDD (the new one, the one I thought is failing)
[20:08:45] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: it worked ok for a while, but then the other one started to do it..
[20:09:04] <alex_joni> it = spindown/up
[20:09:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> alex_joni: whoa, wtf?
[20:09:28] <robin_sz> ok, I might try that
[20:09:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> spin up/down randomly?
[20:09:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> hdparm in linux can do that
[20:09:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I doubt that is the cause though
[20:09:53] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: not OS relevant
[20:09:54] <robin_sz> I wonder if I shold have loaded DOS high or something .. or used emm386, I notice one of the files is 811K
[20:10:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "512k should be enough for anybody"
[20:10:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[20:10:38] <robin_sz> it was 640K should be enough for ...
[20:10:42] <robin_sz> but, yeah
[20:11:11] <alex_joni> I'd have the missing 128k please
[20:11:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, 640k, right
[20:11:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hey, why 640k?
[20:11:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 128 as base memory with 512 extended?
[20:20:04] <robin_sz> hmmm
[20:20:07] <robin_sz> still doesnt work
[20:20:14] <cradek> the address space was 1MB and the space at the top was reserved for memory-mapped stuff.
[20:20:47] <robin_sz> I think its having trouble with an 811K file it needs to acess
[20:21:11] <alex_joni> maybe DEVICEHIGH something
[20:21:14] <alex_joni> and emm
[20:21:24] <robin_sz> sigh
[20:21:37] <robin_sz> all this to resest a waste ink counter!
[20:34:22] <jmkasunich> throw the damned printer in the nearest skip, go to ebay, and buy a nice old printer, before they filled them with nanny-ware
[20:35:30] <cradek> and get a laser printer. inkjet are crap.
[20:35:42] <jmkasunich> that too
[20:36:00] <jmkasunich> I got a (new) laser printer for $149, and I really like it
[20:36:22] <jmkasunich> it just sits on the network, when I want to print it prints, then it goes back to sleep
[20:36:42] <cradek> I've bought one toner cartridge for mine in 8? years
[20:37:01] <cradek> other than that, it just prints (and perfectly at 600dpi)
[20:37:46] <cradek> my time is too precious to dink with inkjet cartridges
[20:38:00] <cradek> if I want to print a photo I go to walgreens
[20:40:06] <jmkasunich> robin_sz has spent enough time on trying to reset the ink pads to buy two printers by now
[20:40:51] <cradek> and I'm sure we're making him happier about it :-)
[20:41:09] <jmkasunich> that's our job - to spread happiness throughout the world
[20:41:29] <robin_sz> I wish
[20:41:39] <robin_sz> these are epson 3000's
[20:41:49] <robin_sz> A2 colour inkjets
[20:41:58] <jmkasunich> expensive nannyware?
[20:42:05] <robin_sz> sadly, yes
[20:42:16] <robin_sz> but when you need A2 prints ...
[20:42:26] <jmkasunich> how does the nannyware know that you've changed the pads?
[20:42:35] <robin_sz> it doesnt
[20:42:43] <robin_sz> you have to run a service program
[20:42:52] <robin_sz> the pads are OK
[20:42:58] <robin_sz> its the counter thats the problem
[20:42:59] <jmkasunich> thats not the point
[20:43:10] <robin_sz> it just counts cleaning cycles
[20:43:14] <jmkasunich> if they weren't ok, and you changed them, how would it know?
[20:43:19] <robin_sz> it wouldnt
[20:43:30] <jmkasunich> somethings gotta reset the counters?
[20:43:35] <robin_sz> you are suppoesd to call for a service guy
[20:43:37] <cradek> the service tech runs this shit software he's trying to run
[20:43:42] <robin_sz> he runs this crappy dos program
[20:43:42] <jmkasunich> oh
[20:44:06] <jmkasunich> so these are "office use with a service contract" type printers
[20:44:08] <jmkasunich> gawd
[20:44:11] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:44:19] <cradek> with built-in service calls
[20:44:23] <robin_sz> they are not cheap either
[20:44:28] <jmkasunich> I swear, if corporations could rent us the air we breathe they would
[20:44:35] <jmkasunich> you can't actually own anything these days
[20:44:57] <jmkasunich> fsckers
[20:46:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh, just look at MS
[20:46:14] <jmkasunich> no thank you, I don't want to lose my lunch
[20:46:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> good point
[20:47:07] <robin_sz> ah well
[20:47:16] <robin_sz> im happy I got freedos working anyway
[20:47:36] <robin_sz> managed to get the monitor program for the laser source working OK
[20:48:18] <robin_sz> it monitors the lamp currents, water temperatures, pressures etc etc etc
[20:48:35] <robin_sz> I swear the guy who built that thing had WAY too much time on his hands
[20:48:46] <jmkasunich> damn - the only problem with cleaning up the mess is that I forget where I put things
[20:48:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> robin_sz: made it yourself? ;)
[20:49:03] <robin_sz> Lerneaen_Hydra, yeah right
[20:49:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jmkasunich: hence, don't clean
[20:49:26] <robin_sz> jmkasunich, thats not cleaning up, thats the alzheimers setting in
[20:49:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> works fine for me
[20:49:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and look how normal I am! ;)
[20:50:02] <robin_sz> we found a brown patch on our floor about 1 foot square
[20:50:14] <jmkasunich> I sure I put the thing I'm looking for in a perfectly logical spot
[20:50:43] <robin_sz> after close investigation it turned out to be the carpet peaking through a spot in the junk :)
[20:51:11] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[20:51:14] <jmkasunich> gotta fix that
[20:51:20] <robin_sz> its OK,
[20:51:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> robin_sz: that's one square foot of wasted space! :D
[20:51:27] <robin_sz> we had christmas, it fixed itself
[20:51:32] <cradek> now you're going to have to vacuum it
[20:51:51] <jmkasunich> hah, found it
[20:51:58] <robin_sz> the carpet?
[20:52:09] <jmk-st> the thing I was looking for
[20:52:21] <jmk-st> one of only two pieces of the compile farm that I kept
[20:52:28] <robin_sz> heh
[20:52:33] <robin_sz> that things gone then?
[20:52:38] <jmk-st> yep
[20:52:48] <jmk-st> using virtual machines now
[20:52:53] <robin_sz> nice
[20:53:22] <jmk-st> I kept a piece of metal from the back, that has all the cutouts for PCI/ISA slots
[20:53:51] <jmk-st> since this PC (the one going in the shoptask) will be mounted on a panel, not in a PC case
[20:54:01] <jmk-st> that piece will help hold the cards stable
[20:54:13] <robin_sz> we just built a display for a machine
[20:54:24] <robin_sz> or rather my mate did
[20:54:40] <robin_sz> 12"x8"x2" hunk of ally
[20:54:44] <robin_sz> hogged it out
[20:54:53] <robin_sz> fitted a 10" LCD
[20:55:01] <robin_sz> and a micro ATX motherboard
[20:55:18] <jmk-st> a bit much work and cash for me
[20:55:22] <jmk-st> sounds rugged tho
[20:55:27] <robin_sz> looked great
[20:55:55] <robin_sz> he took it to the mobo maker to show them and they asked him to design one for them
[20:56:24] <robin_sz> its touchscreen, uclinux or embedded XP
[20:56:26] <jmk-st> even after they found out how much a 12x8x2 piece of aluminum costs?
[20:56:37] <robin_sz> they want a pressed stainless version
[20:56:43] <jmk-st> ah
[20:56:57] <robin_sz> laser the blank, press rounded edges on a 20mm rad
[20:57:03] <robin_sz> tig the coners
[20:57:22] <robin_sz> the 20mm rad will be fun
[20:57:43] <robin_sz> 20mm bar and a block of PU as the lower tool
[20:57:52] <jmk-st> plutonium?
[20:58:03] <jmk-st> polyurethane ;-)
[20:58:03] <robin_sz> polyurethane
[20:58:14] <robin_sz> plutonium is for the deluxe model
[20:58:39] <robin_sz> keeps itself warm in winter
[20:59:06] <jmk-st> I guess its time to shut this thing down...
[21:00:26] <jmkasunich> well thats just a little annoying
[21:00:50] <jmkasunich> I can live with the thing not turning off on shutdown (power management is disabled)
[21:00:59] <jmkasunich> but the power button doesn't even turn it off
[21:01:07] <jmkasunich> gotta unplug the power supply
[21:02:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> funky
[21:02:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> works for me
[21:03:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and no doubt you know that too
[21:03:30] <jmkasunich> its a mobo thing I'm sure
[21:03:49] <jmkasunich> the hard disk powers down, but the PS doesn't
[21:04:08] <jmkasunich> something to mess with later
[21:04:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> my harddisk powers down but nothing else untill I press the power button
[21:05:28] <jmkasunich> thats what I thought this did too
[21:05:38] <jmkasunich> maybe its that SMI that I disabled
[21:16:30] <skunkworks> If you hold the power button in - does it shut off?
[21:16:51] <skunkworks> my portable with the smi running shuts down with the power button - with a quick tap.
[21:20:46] <skunkworks> I don't think I have had a machine shut down with the real time kernel (automatically)
[21:31:44] <jmkasunich> holding the button doesn't shut it off
[21:31:58] <jmkasunich> this is the first system I've seen with this behavior
[21:35:30] <alex_joni> eek.. sounds bad
[21:35:35] <anonimasu> hm
[21:35:38] <alex_joni> I think no ATX should be able to do that
[21:35:38] <anonimasu> what's up?
[21:35:51] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: hold it for more then 3 secs?
[21:36:02] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: power off needs to work even before BIOS
[21:36:07] <alex_joni> so it can't be a software issue
[21:36:20] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'm with dog now :)
[21:36:41] <alex_joni> I'm off to bed now
[21:36:42] <alex_joni> :-Ü
[21:36:45] <alex_joni> :-P
[21:36:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu too in a bit
[21:37:01] <anonimasu> she's already sleeping :)
[21:41:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:46:38] <anonimasu> night
[22:31:01] <lerman> Have any of you tried installing tightvnc on ubuntu to access it remotely?
[22:31:19] <lerman> I've got it installed, but there seem to be configuration issues.
[22:31:38] <lerman> As in... no apparent window manager.
[23:59:01] <alex_joni> night all