#emc | Logs for 2006-12-17

[00:00:21] <alex_joni> Rugludallur_: I have a Geode GX1 somewhere around
[00:00:26] <steve_stallings> gee, and I was guessing Open Linux mumble mumble....
[00:00:30] <alex_joni> ran emc2 on it a year or so ago
[00:00:52] <alex_joni> anyone knows wth "dark fibre" is?
[00:01:24] <Rugludallur_> alex_joni: Dark Fiber is just a term to describe a fiber line which does not have a protocol specified, so you can run Ethernet or ATM or what ever you want over it
[00:01:28] <steve_stallings> installed but not in use
[00:01:43] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok.. thx
[00:02:18] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: yes, I drew http://www.robcon.ro/emc/weaving.pdf
[00:02:33] <jmkasunich> cradek: yes, I have a filing system (sort of)
[00:02:38] <jmkasunich> its just a big spreadsheet
[00:02:41] <steve_stallings> in USA in the late 90s, backbone fiber was installed like a gold rush, much of it was never used, only now being "lit up"
[00:02:48] <Rugludallur_> alex: how did the paralell port work on the Geode ?
[00:02:53] <jmkasunich> but its incomplete, and suffers from bitrot as I move things around
[00:03:02] <alex_joni> Rugludallur_: good
[00:03:37] <Rugludallur_> alex_joni: Great, It would be neat for people to be able to buy a machine for sub 200 with monitor and run it as a machine controller
[00:05:27] <alex_joni> does the OLPC have a parport?
[00:05:33] <alex_joni> I thought it didn't
[00:05:49] <Rugludallur_> alex_joni: don't think so, but the prototype board I am working with does
[00:06:18] <Rugludallur_> alex_joni: the final board is not supposed to have a parport, but .....
[00:07:56] <Rugludallur_> alex_joni: I wonder If I can convince them that they might want to do analog control from the machine .......
[00:08:17] <alex_joni> http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/amd-cs5536-diag.jpg
[00:08:32] <alex_joni> GPIO might be just as good
[00:09:01] <Rugludallur_> Rugludallur_ is now known as Rugludallur
[00:10:22] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/amd-lx800-devboards.jpg that one?
[00:11:03] <Rugludallur> alex_joni, nahh im using a WAFER-LX-800
[00:11:43] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: The hardware people in Taiwan don't have a prototype so I bought the cheepest board that I could get in a week
[00:11:46] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: http://store.orbitmicro.com/commerce/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=39931
[00:12:19] <alex_joni> http://www.ipc2u.ru/files/products/32539/wafer-LX.jpg
[00:12:30] <alex_joni> pc104 only?
[00:12:40] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: yup
[00:13:10] <alex_joni> eek :)
[00:13:24] <alex_joni> my old gx1 has pc104, pc104+ and isa :P
[00:13:37] <alex_joni> and it was twice that price :(
[00:15:26] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/HPIM5139.JPG
[00:16:12] <alex_joni> I should probably do something with it.. it's getting old :(
[00:16:13] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: what were you booting off ?
[00:16:19] <alex_joni> suse 8.2 (HDD)
[00:16:31] <alex_joni> the ribbon cable at the top
[00:16:50] <alex_joni> but it has a CF slot on the back
[00:16:58] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: same as mine
[00:17:28] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: I have been working 16 hour days for the last week getting a working kernel with X on 128 mb
[00:17:46] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: booting off compact flash by using a ramdisk
[00:17:46] <alex_joni> hmm.. why not get a puppy?
[00:18:13] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: how fast is that board?
[00:18:20] <jmkasunich> (the GX1)
[00:18:56] <alex_joni> http://www.puppyos.com/flash-puppy.htm
[00:19:00] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: 300MHz
[00:19:03] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: need the extra flexibility that gentoo provides, better hardware support and such, the geode lx drivers are pretty recent
[00:20:00] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: oh, ok
[00:20:16] <jmkasunich> those are nice and small....
[00:20:21] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: this thing will end up on thousands of units, if not millions so the work can easily be justified :D
[00:20:52] <alex_joni> they use as a kernel
[00:20:57] <alex_joni> I'd say that's damn recent
[00:21:10] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: hmm yup, im actually using 19 at the moment but ...
[00:21:48] <alex_joni> http://www.puppyos.com/download/release-2.12.htm
[00:22:02] <alex_joni> xorg 7.something
[00:23:31] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: hmm might be easier to strip down puppy than build gentoo
[00:24:12] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: have you tried puppy ?
[00:25:24] <alex_joni> we have/had a version with emc2 on it
[00:25:34] <alex_joni> but there were problems with the RT kernel
[00:26:31] <alex_joni> from what I looked at it, it seemed that RTAI overwrote the ramdisk somehow
[00:26:51] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: hmm thats wierd
[00:26:58] <alex_joni> probably RTAI didn't care it's allocated (just like it does for memory over 1GB)
[00:28:25] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: gentoo actually has pretty good embedded support, they got a tiny x server and everything but getting everything just right and sorting out the dependencies takes ages when you have to recompile everything
[00:28:50] <alex_joni> Rugludallur: anyways, if you want to give it a go it's here: http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/get.php?file=coolcncb05.iso
[00:29:13] <alex_joni> same for puppy as I understood it
[00:29:46] <alex_joni> some info on that here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoolCnc.0.5
[00:30:47] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: thx, I hope I get to keep the hardware when the project is over, then I can start playing with EMC :D
[00:32:49] <alex_joni> :)
[00:33:07] <alex_joni> I might remember parts of it.. so bug me if needed
[00:33:47] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: Great, thanks
[00:33:56] <alex_joni> anyways, getting late.. good night all
[00:34:28] <Rugludallur> nite alex
[01:57:51] <tomp> hello
[01:58:06] <jmkasunich> hi
[01:58:26] <steve_stallings> hellooooooooo, is there and echo in here?
[01:59:21] <jmkasunich> tomp: I have this vague memory of you saying you have a shoptask or some other such 3-in-1
[01:59:33] <jmkasunich> is that true, or do you just do EDM?
[02:00:18] <jmkasunich> helloooooooooooooo steve_stallings
[02:00:20] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[02:00:34] <tomp> jmk: got shoptask & small horz mill & 2 sink edms
[02:00:47] <tomp> named 3in1
[02:00:50] <jmkasunich> CNC the shoptask yet?
[02:01:05] <tomp> yes, emc, stepper, pac-sci 400 oz
[02:01:10] <jmkasunich> cool
[02:01:19] <jmkasunich> I'm finally (after years) getting started on mine
[02:01:22] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/index.html
[02:02:01] <jmkasunich> do you get good results with the 400 oz-in? (fast rapids, plenty of torque, no lost steps)
[02:02:08] <steve_stallings> geez... you cheat, I see FLOOR in those pics
[02:02:40] <jmkasunich> took me a couple weeks to find that floor
[02:03:36] <tomp> nice pix jmk: i dont recall the speeds and the computer was pulled for the stg tests... not very fast.. amp allowed up to 256 microstep, think i used 10
[02:03:53] <steve_stallings> ok, I see a Rockwell varispeed drill press, with an unusual motor setup....
[02:04:07] <jmkasunich> clausing actually
[02:04:13] <jmkasunich> yes, unusual
[02:04:30] <jmkasunich> a prior owner installed a countershaft where the motor goes
[02:04:34] <tomp> the thing i was most concerned with was the wiggly quill on the shoptask( broke a few 1/4 and smaller cutters)
[02:04:48] <jmkasunich> the motor drives the countershaft with about a 5:1 step down v-belt
[02:04:50] <jmkasunich> so it goes SLOOOOOW
[02:05:33] <jmkasunich> tomp: yeah, the shoptask is a quite decent lathe, but a rather dissapointing mill
[02:05:58] <tomp> slow... so its not a drillpress, its a reamerpress :-)
[02:06:14] <jmkasunich> and a tappress
[02:06:32] <jmkasunich> between the varispeed belt and the VFD on the motor, it will do about 20 to 1200 rpm
[02:07:02] <jmkasunich> I've tapped 3/8-16 in cast iron just by chucking the tap and going (there is a reverse switch ;-)
[02:07:19] <cradek> wow you took a lot apart
[02:07:25] <cradek> can you move it now?
[02:07:26] <jmkasunich> only a couple hours
[02:07:40] <jmkasunich> mostly pulled off assemblies, rather than taking all the fiddly stuff apart
[02:07:58] <jmkasunich> half the time was probably cleaning crap off
[02:08:07] <tomp> jmk: remember those change gears, the order is not obvious 6 months later ;)
[02:08:08] <jmkasunich> haven't got that far
[02:08:20] <jmkasunich> I need to pull all the drawers out of the bench, etc
[02:08:55] <jmkasunich> tomp: yeah, although they way I disassembled it, there are only three "chunks"
[02:09:18] <jmkasunich> and, I have a picture tucked away somewhere just in case
[02:09:24] <jmkasunich> in the long run, those gears won't be going back in
[02:09:34] <jmkasunich> EMC will be my threading gears
[02:10:13] <jmkasunich> cradek: I suspect it still weighs 300 lbs
[02:10:29] <jmkasunich> plus another 75 or so for the bench, even with all the drawers out
[02:10:55] <cradek> that's easy with a friendly neighbor
[02:11:27] <jmkasunich> neighbors on both sides are female, and one is in her 60s ;-)
[02:11:46] <cradek> ok it would take a few more of them then :-)
[02:11:53] <jmkasunich> it won't be hard to do myself
[02:12:21] <jmkasunich> I'm also gonna be moving the cabinet thats next to it
[02:12:34] <jmkasunich> (the one that looks like a card file)
[02:12:46] <jmkasunich> I keep metal stock in there, its HEAVY
[02:12:58] <tomp> jmk: the tricky bit is fitting the top casting with post back on top, heavy, awkward & above your shoulders
[02:13:04] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:13:15] <jmkasunich> thats what the eyebolts in the joists are for
[02:13:29] <tomp> got a hoist?
[02:13:32] <jmkasunich> I lifted it out without them, but there's no way I could put it back
[02:13:38] <jmkasunich> got rope and pulleys
[02:13:44] <jmkasunich> (I used to own a sailboat)
[02:14:20] <tomp> oh, in the joists, good idea, i had an i beam in this 1900's brick house, i put it right under the beam :)
[02:14:48] <jmkasunich> thats how I got it on the bench in the first place
[02:15:11] <jmkasunich> pallet on the ground where the bench is now, hoist it up, pull out pallet and push bench underneath
[02:15:43] <tomp> tell us about the addition to the milling head
[02:16:08] <jmkasunich> rotating preloaded ballnut
[02:16:19] <jmkasunich> screw doesn't turn, its attached to the banjo
[02:16:40] <jmkasunich> stepper isn't mounted yet, but you can see where it goes on that aluminum plate
[02:16:56] <tomp> k, and the motor mount i see.. so this is the z axis, nice
[02:17:29] <jmkasunich> the original rack/pinion, and that dog clutch, had crazy backlash
[02:17:32] <jmkasunich> 0.050 or more
[02:17:50] <jmkasunich> so I ripped it out and covered up the hole
[02:18:15] <tomp> yes, much nicer than what shoptask suggests ( i also had huge b-lash, and no worm either)
[02:18:42] <tomp> what pitch? .2" or less
[02:18:49] <jmkasunich> 0.2 I believe
[02:20:59] <jmkasunich> in a couple minutes I'll post a drawing of the quill assembly
[02:21:04] <tomp> jmk: i got hscale working now, and am fiddling with a meter widget for halvcp... wont bother you till this next bit is done
[02:21:24] <tomp> jmk: thanks, i wanted to ask for a sketch :)
[02:22:25] <tomp> there were other shoptack/emc users on the google map, they'll like it too
[02:25:31] <jmkasunich> the drawing isn't dimensioned or anything, I made individual part drawings as needed
[02:25:47] <jmkasunich> and the overall design was made to suit the screw/nuts/bearings that I had on hand
[02:26:02] <jmkasunich> so it won't be directly usable by most folks
[02:26:09] <jmkasunich> but they can use it for ideas
[02:38:13] <jmkasunich> tomp: its posted now
[02:38:17] <jmkasunich> same URL as before
[02:39:05] <jmkasunich> the biggest challenge there was to maintain as much travel as possible but avoid hitting the underside of the spindle pulley
[02:39:11] <tomp> jmk: got it : gratzia mille,,,
[02:40:05] <tomp> so, did you keep most of the original 3.5" travel
[02:40:16] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:40:45] <tomp> i got me a nother project :)
[02:40:59] <jmkasunich> travel is exacty the same as before (bottom end is limited by the screw that keeps the quill from turning, not by the ballscrew assembly
[02:41:38] <steve_stallings> 3D model, or 2D CAD, what software?
[02:41:44] <jmkasunich> 2D, easycad
[02:42:02] <jmkasunich> I could generate a dxf of that drawing if somebody wanted it
[02:42:41] <steve_stallings> have not played with easycad since just after the split with Autodesk
[02:42:42] <jmkasunich> but the whole thing was designed around a surplus ballscrew, so its bound to be different for someone else
[02:42:58] <jmkasunich> I really like easycad
[02:43:07] <jmkasunich> its the only reason I still have a windows box
[02:44:13] <steve_stallings> I have drifted away from regular CAD and do almost exclusively PCB now, when I must do mechanical CAD I force it through VectorCAD/CAM
[02:45:03] <tomp> heh, i keep dos for generic cadd ( gcadd ) also bought out by autodesk
[02:45:05] <steve_stallings> AutoCAD lost me with the "paper space" vs. "real space" mish-mash
[02:46:36] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: how much is a license of vector cad/cam
[02:46:38] <anonimasu> ?
[02:46:54] <steve_stallings> figure next time I put out the effort to master a new system it will be SolidWorks or similar
[02:48:00] <steve_stallings> standard 2D cad, plus CAM is US$795
[02:48:31] <steve_stallings> Vector is powerful, but somewhat strange for ex-AutoCAD users
[02:50:17] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the order status?
[02:50:18] <steve_stallings> perhaps 2D is not accurate, it does understand 3D but does not do a good job of real 3D models
[02:50:25] <A-L-P-H-A> where's swpadnos? :(
[02:50:36] <jmkasunich> swp is traveling
[02:50:47] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. okay
[02:50:55] <jmkasunich> the order will be placed somewhere around 12/20 after when he gets back
[02:51:03] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich: thanks!
[02:51:09] <steve_stallings> order planning targeted for 20 Dec or thereabouts
[02:51:23] <steve_stallings> 8-)
[02:51:46] <A-L-P-H-A> coolies
[02:51:58] <tomp> who should we send the individual orders to?
[02:52:08] <A-L-P-H-A> tomp: jmkasunich.
[02:52:14] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the page again?
[02:52:17] <A-L-P-H-A> have we made the 25 sku?
[02:52:18] <jmkasunich> the actual order (payment and such) not determined yet
[02:52:26] <tomp> k
[02:52:26] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/m5i20-group-buy.html
[02:52:48] <tomp> i already sent it to jmk: thought i had done wrong :-|
[02:53:08] <jmkasunich> the order will probably go thru swp, because he has paypal which lets folks use credit cards if they want
[02:53:16] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: ?
[02:53:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I should make the breakout boards. and resell them. :) but hey... that's just me.
[02:53:23] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: nice..
[02:53:24] <jmkasunich> to get listed on the webpage, talk to me
[02:53:28] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: maybe I should try it
[02:54:45] <tomp> ALPHA, there's 2 web-available designs thata re close to whats needed, one on stg site, other at clemsen univ.
[02:54:52] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich starts pulling drawers out of things
[02:55:01] <steve_stallings> if you can live with 2.5D there is Sheetcam which works from DXF and only cost US$150, quite good, CAM only
[02:55:19] <jmkasunich> tomp: are those the two that I have links to on the webpage?
[02:55:28] <steve_stallings> SheetCAM, Vector, both Windows only
[02:56:25] <tomp> jmk: no theses are free designs ( pcb designs )... i'm collecting urls now
[02:57:38] <tomp> jmk: 1 is http://www.mech.northwestern.edu/courses/433/ServoToGo/BreakoutBoard/ad/
[02:58:28] <tomp> jmk: 2 are http://www.ece.clemson.edu/crb/ece496/stg_breakout_inst.htm
[02:59:04] <tomp> they could be modified for the mesa card
[02:59:09] <jmkasunich> I'm almost certain the STG one doesn't have the right pinout
[02:59:47] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: I cant..
[02:59:52] <anonimasu> steve_stallings: :)
[03:01:42] <tomp> jmk: they are 'correct' as correct as the winford would be (i think you could just forget the names )
[03:01:47] <jepler> STG pinout on pdf page 11 of http://servotogo.com/hardman2.pdf -- it's got the signal pins in different locations than the m5i20
[03:02:30] <jepler> 5i20 has grounds on even-numbered pins and signals/vcc on odd numbered pins -- pdf page 6 of http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i37man.pdf
[03:02:35] <jepler> so don't buy an STG breakout board for your mesa
[03:02:46] <jepler> unless it's just screw terminals or something
[03:02:57] <jmkasunich> dang... I'm getting old
[03:03:14] <tomp> thats just the name... use it as you want to use it, it's just a 50 pin hdr to term strip... and you can mount a connector on the other side of the board to fix the odd even problem
[03:05:15] <jepler> the northwestern.edu board is much more than just an adapter to screw terminals .. it's very specific to the STG pinout
[03:05:32] <A-L-P-H-A> oh ehy.. .this guy doesn't even charge that much... $25 http://www.daqstuff.com/50_pin_breakout_500013.htm
[03:06:36] <jtr> anonimasu: for Vector, check out http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby/ - there's a holiday special price.
[03:07:20] <tomp> yes, the nwu board... we'd eliminate a bunch of stuff, better yet dont use either design ,make a new design ( uh that looks a lot like the others, just a little different )
[03:10:00] <anonimasu> jtr: it's not for hobby stuff :)
[03:10:35] <anonimasu> nice..
[03:11:39] <jmkasunich> damn... why is steel so heavy
[03:13:38] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich: atomic composition contains more protons and neutrons.
[03:13:50] <jmkasunich> oh, ok
[03:13:55] <jmkasunich> I knew there had to be a reason
[03:14:02] <jmkasunich> (beside making my back hurt)
[03:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder if magnetism and gravity have something to do with it being more heavy... just even slightly.
[03:14:23] <anonimasu> heh
[03:15:36] <A-L-P-H-A> like... I've an university science graduate. And that's a serious question... since iron is magnetic... would gravity/magnetism cause it to be slightly heavier than just gravity alone.
[03:15:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I've = I'm
[03:16:03] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/drawers1.jpg
[03:16:06] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/drawers2.jpg
[03:16:24] <A-L-P-H-A> it may... as magnetism can do something for compases
[03:16:49] <jmkasunich> depends on how "slightly" you can detect
[03:17:27] <jmkasunich> compass needles orient themselves parallel to the earth's field, because they themselves are magnetized
[03:17:32] <jmkasunich> plain old steel isn't magentized
[03:17:48] <jmkasunich> any effect from the earth's field is very very very small compared to gravity
[03:17:57] <A-L-P-H-A> well... also, there be a north and south pole. so it should equal out.
[03:18:38] <A-L-P-H-A> what's with the toys in the pics? :)
[03:19:46] <jmkasunich> trying to move the machine and the bench its mounted on
[03:20:00] <jmkasunich> the drawers of the bench add a few hundred pounds so I took them all out
[03:22:19] <A-L-P-H-A> who's machined Titanium grade 5?
[03:23:16] <anonimasu> robin__sz I think..
[03:25:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I really want to make a ring for myself.
[03:25:18] <A-L-P-H-A> so I think I'll toy with it now, after I take a quick shower.
[03:25:25] <A-L-P-H-A> manual machining may not be too much fun.
[03:25:30] <jmkasunich> gold is easier to machine ;-)
[03:25:35] <A-L-P-H-A> gold is SOFT.
[03:25:42] <A-L-P-H-A> and why would you machine it, and not CAST it?
[03:25:48] <jmkasunich> I was joking
[03:26:02] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich: oh. you. are. so. funny. ha. ha.
[03:26:06] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[03:26:12] <jmkasunich> (my wife is a bench jeweler, I know about casting gold)
[03:26:13] <cradek> I made a ring of stainless on a manual lathe
[03:26:34] <A-L-P-H-A> 316 acts about the same as Ti grade 5.
[03:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> so I've been told.
[03:26:50] <jmkasunich> not fun
[03:26:55] <jmkasunich> at least not with a light machine
[03:27:58] <jmkasunich> well, I can move it...
[03:28:09] <jmkasunich> one end at a time
[03:28:43] <jmkasunich> found about 10 lbs of chips behind the bench, more sweeping and cleaning
[03:36:48] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich: yikes. don't you clean up after you machine?
[03:39:41] <jtr> I think they were hidden between the bench and the wall.
[03:40:00] <jmkasunich> yeah, I clean up by scraping the crap off the bench and down between the bench and wall ;-)
[03:40:05] <jmkasunich> jtr: exactly
[03:40:14] <anonimasu> I hate that with cnc's..
[03:40:18] <anonimasu> they make so much chips
[03:40:20] <anonimasu> so fast
[03:40:21] <jmkasunich> one of the reasons I'm moving the machien is for better access
[03:40:20] <anonimasu> :)
[03:40:43] <jtr> I hung som posterboard behind my lathe, to catch them and redirect into the tray.
[03:40:56] <jtr> works for the oil stripe as well.
[03:41:03] <jtr> some
[03:41:12] <anonimasu> I need to get a vaccum/build covers for the slots in the table..
[03:41:12] <anonimasu> :)
[03:41:18] <anonimasu> both..
[03:41:19] <jmkasunich> yeah, with the new position I'll definitely be doing somekind of chip deflector
[03:41:54] <jmkasunich> I suppose I should clean the strip off the wall before I move things up against it
[03:42:13] <jmkasunich> stripe
[03:42:30] <jtr> Did you ever have a problem with the cat getting into the chips? I worry about that with our guys here.
[03:42:43] <jmkasunich> cats no, they seem to have more sense
[03:42:47] <jmkasunich> dog, yes
[03:43:00] <cradek> my cats are excluded from the machinery area
[03:43:08] <jmkasunich> the dog normally can't get in the basement, but if he does...
[03:43:40] <jmkasunich> cradek: that would be nice, but we have the litter boxes under the basement steps, and thats only about 6-8 feet from the lathe
[03:44:10] <jtr> Our Rose likes things that are crunchy, so he scouts out dried leaves from around the garage door.
[03:44:53] <jtr> they do not digest at all well...
[03:45:18] <jmkasunich> I try to sweep up whenever I quit for the day, at least the ones that are out in the open where critters can walk on them
[03:45:25] <jmkasunich> jtr: no, indeed
[03:45:57] <jtr> our litter boxes are in the basement as well. (well, for the cats anyway.)
[03:46:10] <jmkasunich> with the new layout, I'll be able to sweep all the way around the machine, except for the tailstock end
[03:46:40] <jmkasunich> and that end will be up against a cabined that is a foot and a half taller than the bench, so nothing should escape that direction
[03:48:27] <tomp> do you find the height comfortable ( shoptask on top of std height table ? ) I wanted to make a riser
[03:48:45] <jmkasunich> this isn't std height (I don't think)
[03:48:53] <jmkasunich> I made the bench specifically for the shoptask
[03:48:57] <jmkasunich> lemme measure
[03:49:17] <jmkasunich> about 31" from floor to benchtop
[03:49:28] <tomp> good thinkin, easier on the back
[03:53:48] <jtr> Think there's a recommendation about where mumble on the machine should be in relation to your elbows.
[03:55:47] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:55:57] <jmkasunich> if I could just remember what mumble is
[03:56:37] <jmkasunich> for me, the lathe spindle is about 4" above elbow height
[03:59:40] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[04:00:43] <jtr> Just checked - about the same here. That might be in one of the TMBR books.
[04:03:01] <jtr> I'm going to work on correcting my sleep deficit. Good night.
[04:04:34] <wb9mjn> The Motenc100 Estop3 hardware estop input appears to be active high, rather than low (as in the manual)...
[04:04:45] <wb9mjn> Test...
[04:05:02] <wb9mjn> Oops...there is my text...
[04:05:56] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[04:07:19] <wb9mjn> and its not sufficiently debounced either...bounces cause the counter values to change by 10's of thousands...
[04:07:36] <wb9mjn> reset bounces that is...
[04:08:59] <wb9mjn> Going to have to set the jumper to disable that input....
[04:10:19] <wb9mjn> Maybe echo the estop through the computer ? hmm...That way it will be debounced...hopefully...
[04:12:10] <A-L-P-H-A> got a new shower head... WOW, is that thing relaxing... 7 different spray settings.
[04:12:31] <A-L-P-H-A> feel so freak'n relaxed after that damn shower... now I don't want to machine the Ti.
[04:19:03] <wb9mjn> How does one negate an output value ?
[04:19:40] <wb9mjn> doing the -not thing confuses Hal, as its directing an EMC signal to the output, and the -not changes the name...
[04:25:55] <jmkasunich> wb9mjn: if you are trying to invert a signal right at the output port, there should be a -invert parameter associated with each output pin
[04:26:00] <jmkasunich> set it true to invert
[04:34:25] <wb9mjn> Disabled hardware estop, and with the EMC1 pids, everything seems to be working ...
[04:34:43] <wb9mjn> Actually, have to setup the home'g by bouncing off a limit yet...
[04:34:50] <wb9mjn> That will be tomorrow...
[04:35:16] <jmkasunich> getting late
[04:35:26] <wb9mjn> Ok...on the invert....will see if I can make the hardware Estop with that tomorrow...
[04:35:41] <wb9mjn> Yep...I am usually up at 5 am....
[04:35:43] <jmkasunich> to be honest, I know very little about m5i20 hardware estop
[04:35:54] <jmkasunich> the invert is for a generic digital output
[04:35:59] <wb9mjn> This is the Motenc-100...
[04:36:09] <wb9mjn> First batch of em, actually...2004...
[04:36:15] <jmkasunich> same story, I know nothink
[04:36:24] <wb9mjn> He might have this fixed,,,I will have to call Abdul on monday...
[04:36:44] <jmkasunich> on the mazak, we used one of the pmdx boards with a charge pump for the estop
[04:37:00] <wb9mjn> The hardware Estop is supposed to set the DAC's to 0, but instead its setting the counters to 0...I had never
[04:37:12] <jmkasunich> thats more than a little strange
[04:37:17] <wb9mjn> been using it consequently...
[04:37:24] <wb9mjn> Just use the EMC Estop...
[04:38:04] <wb9mjn> Well, the EMC position display goes to 0, but comes back when Estop comes off, if there is no switch bouncing..
[04:38:21] <wb9mjn> Yea, its wierd...just turned it off for now...
[04:38:32] <wb9mjn> Wired in another input for the Estop in....
[04:39:14] <wb9mjn> Everything came up,,,including the amp enables....funky, though, all the axis are being disabled
[04:39:31] <wb9mjn> on a limit hit on a single axis...
[04:39:55] <wb9mjn> Would think only the limit hit axis would disable...
[04:40:18] <wb9mjn> Also, wont run when reset after a limit hit...
[04:40:26] <jmkasunich> at the moment, I believe all the motion.axis.N.enable pins change to gether
[04:40:43] <wb9mjn> Even if one tries the right direction...will have to double check that though...might have a +/- limit switched...
[04:41:24] <wb9mjn> Just gave a Joint error....when after turning the machine on after the limit error, and tried to move the limit tripped
[04:41:40] <wb9mjn> axis...So, had to had turn the motor out of limit trip...should not do that...
[04:42:01] <wb9mjn> Should let it move in the untripped direction, even with red leters...
[04:42:21] <wb9mjn> Anyway...tomorrow is another day...
[04:43:11] <wb9mjn> Ok on the all enable/disable ...
[04:44:09] <jmkasunich> wb9mjn: tomorrow when everybody is fresh, you should post your hal files and let us take a look
[04:44:24] <jmkasunich> right now I'm too busy trying to throw out my back
[04:44:35] <wb9mjn> Ok...see ya...
[04:44:43] <wb9mjn> moving a lathe ?
[04:44:51] <jmkasunich> kinda
[04:45:08] <jmkasunich> right now I've moved and leveled my metal stock cabinet (sits next to the lathe)
[04:45:10] <wb9mjn> I had trouble with my 150 pounder, just putting it up on the bench top...
[04:45:15] <jmkasunich> and I'm putting the drawers back in
[04:45:23] <jmkasunich> some of those drawers are fscking heavy
[04:45:48] <wb9mjn> Put the head on a chair seat...repositioned, got the tail on the bench...repostioned, put the head on the bench...
[04:46:08] <jmkasunich> yeah, patience is the key
[04:48:48] <jmkasunich> the aluminum drawers are much nicer than the steel ones ;-)
[04:48:59] <wb9mjn> Yep...
[04:49:57] <wb9mjn> Welp...night...rest your back...you will be amazed how much better things go with pauses between the
[04:50:02] <wb9mjn> heavy lifting....
[04:50:35] <wb9mjn> The back can recover amazingly fast, if you do not do too much at one time...
[04:51:05] <jmkasunich> the talking here - thats pauses ;-)
[04:51:23] <jmkasunich> nine drawers, moving one at a time with a few mins rest between each one
[04:52:01] <jmkasunich> I was thinking about moving the lathe into final position next, but I might let that go until tomorrow
[04:52:47] <wb9mjn> Oh..."Overide Limits" works now...hi...
[04:53:03] <wb9mjn> That is why it was giving the joint error...
[04:53:35] <wb9mjn> If I hit Overide Limits, then restart the machine, I can move out of the trip, and the Overide Limits turns back to
[04:53:39] <wb9mjn> normal from red...
[04:53:48] <wb9mjn> Night...
[04:54:01] <jmkasunich> yeah, override lasts for one move only, then resets itself
[04:54:04] <jmkasunich> safety feature
[05:02:36] <tomp> jmk: know those light towers on machine tools... a stack of red green blue lights? tell you machine status from a distance?
[05:03:12] <tomp> here's a homebrew replacement, it could tell you when a job was done...
[05:03:41] <tomp> http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/Push-Puppet-Toy-Screenshot-21118.html
[05:05:27] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[05:06:21] <A-L-P-H-A> lame
[05:07:51] <jmkasunich> got the lathe in the right position now... just have to level it
[05:31:33] <tomp> i've been modelling anew meter widget after the gtkdial widget... bad idea cuz gtkdial is an input device, and uses mouse events to trigger updates
[05:32:19] <tomp> i want updates when the underlying 'adjustment' object changes due to , some analog input on an i/o card
[05:33:00] <tomp> back to drawing board ( tho the code for the ticks is useful )
[05:45:07] <jmkasunich> everything is moved
[05:45:14] <jmkasunich> time for bed
[05:46:07] <tomp> goodnite, good work!
[11:22:55] <robin__sz> meep?
[11:23:39] <robin__sz> alex_joni, so ... robot wrist protection ... apart from the obvious one of "buy something expensive" what are the alternatives, seen any workable and buildbale protection devices?
[11:23:56] <robin__sz> alex_joni, I was thinking of something involving some neo magnets
[12:07:19] <alex_joni> wrist protection?
[12:12:23] <alex_joni> bbl.. lunch
[12:16:17] <robin__sz> you know ... the electrical safety that trips when you bang the torch up against something solid
[12:16:28] <robin__sz> on axis 6
[12:38:14] <robin__sz> bah, I need a PC with DOS on it I thinl
[12:38:16] <robin__sz> think
[12:38:59] <robin__sz> this crap old software doesnt seem to be able to access the serial ports under windows XP dos-like thing
[13:05:18] <alex_joni> robin__sz: that's torch protection
[13:05:26] <alex_joni> and it usually is done after the wrist
[13:05:55] <alex_joni> the most simple ones are mechanical with 3 contacts
[13:28:38] <alex_joni> cradek: here's one with round buttons: http://www.toenne-online.de/Mach/toenne-screen.jpg
[14:05:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[14:05:55] <alex_joni> hi
[14:06:34] <alex_joni> bbl..
[14:21:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo alex
[14:43:23] <anonimasu> hm
[14:43:35] <anonimasu> new psu for the mill pc today :)
[14:43:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is going to write code for the plc/keypad in a bit
[14:45:27] <anonimasu> alex_joni: are you awake?
[14:49:27] <wb9mjn> Have he amp enables seperated out now, and the homes tied to Xmin, Ymin and Zmax limits...time to redo the ini
[14:49:34] <wb9mjn> for bounce of limit homing...
[14:57:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> anonimasu: he went away a while ago
[14:57:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> probably here soon
[15:02:11] <wb9mjn> Hmm...might have to go back to the old method....on the homing...just realised the - limit turns off the amp, and
[15:02:29] <wb9mjn> there will be a following error....But that is not what is happening...
[15:03:10] <wb9mjn> Even though "Ignore_limits" is on its emc is halting with an error limit....
[15:23:16] <cradek> you're trying to home on a limit switch?
[15:24:16] <wb9mjn> Yep...
[15:24:17] <cradek> what version of emc is this?
[15:24:23] <wb9mjn> Got the X and Y working now...
[15:24:30] <wb9mjn> EMC 2....Ubuntu 6.06 ...
[15:24:45] <wb9mjn> They reverse and come of the limit faster than the amp can shut down...
[15:25:00] <wb9mjn> But the Z axis is throwing the following error...
[15:25:27] <wb9mjn> First time I have had a full auto homing on this machine ... YooooHoooo!
[15:25:31] <cradek> following error or limit error?
[15:25:56] <wb9mjn> Limit Error was due to a home switch input signal polarity mistake...
[15:26:27] <wb9mjn> Now, as I figured, I am getting the following error, but only on the big slow clunky Z column axis...
[15:26:28] <cradek> if you use HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS=YES it will not throw an error or disable the amps
[15:26:37] <wb9mjn> Yes,,I did that originally...
[15:26:53] <wb9mjn> Well, I have the limits directly wired to the amps...
[15:27:05] <cradek> oh
[15:27:17] <cradek> obviously you shouldn't do that and home on them too!
[15:27:35] <wb9mjn> Might need to put a cap on the Z limit + signal, with a diode...
[15:27:57] <wb9mjn> Well, its working on the X and Y ...Yea, learning is such a neat thing...
[15:28:10] <wb9mjn> Or maybe set up a real home switch for the Z...
[15:28:37] <cradek> yeah, it's not surprising you get a following error if you turn the amp off!
[15:28:59] <wb9mjn> The cap would keep the amp on for a hundred msec...
[15:29:06] <cradek> sounds like you need more switches or something
[15:29:20] <wb9mjn> The X and Y are working...so the computer is faster than the Amp can fault out...
[15:29:45] <cradek> doesn't that time reduce or eliminate the crash protection?
[15:30:07] <cradek> .1sec is a very long time at full velocity
[15:30:13] <wb9mjn> Yea, but my z axis going upward stops going upward very fast...
[15:30:45] <cradek> ok sounds like you have a handle on it, I'll stop "helping"
[15:30:54] <wb9mjn> It has allot of friction, and unpowered will drop down about .050 inches until the Z brake catches...
[15:30:55] <cradek> thought you might be having an emc problem, but sounds like it's not
[15:31:36] <wb9mjn> Have to hack on it somemore and see if I can figure for sure I know what is going on, and a workaround...
[15:32:32] <wb9mjn> Yea, I thought there was an EMC problem with the limits...but its was a config problem instead...
[15:33:06] <cradek> good to hear, ok, good luck
[15:33:11] <wb9mjn> thanks...
[15:33:16] <cradek> welcome
[15:44:12] <wb9mjn> Z limit switch is out of adjustment...limit of travel was tripping the following error...how did that happen !?
[15:44:48] <anonimasu> hm
[15:45:03] <anonimasu> limit of travel?(end of way)?
[15:48:38] <tomp> hello
[15:48:58] <jtr> morning
[16:11:27] <anonimasu> hi
[16:11:29] <anonimasu> hm..
[16:11:31] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[16:11:42] <anonimasu> finally on the walk of making the plc talk to the pc
[16:11:42] <anonimasu> :)
[16:16:17] <wb9mjn> Making progress...but there is too much hysteresis in the Z limit switch...its reverseing, and when the index
[16:16:48] <wb9mjn> pulse fires, after making half a turn of the screw, the limit is still active, and it trips out...
[16:19:02] <wb9mjn> The X and Y limits have push operators....
[16:19:13] <cradek> can you move the switch or rotate the encoder?
[16:19:14] <wb9mjn> The Z has rotory operators....
[16:19:48] <wb9mjn> Tried both, the problem is the hysteresis is more than one turn of the screw (.2 inch) ...I think...
[16:20:05] <cradek> oh, that's a lot
[16:20:12] <wb9mjn> Yea...
[16:20:25] <cradek> what do you mean 'trips out'?
[16:20:43] <cradek> are you homing when it moves into or off the switch?
[16:20:49] <wb9mjn> When it reestablishes limits, it reads a limit fault, and turns off the machine...
[16:21:08] <cradek> oh I see
[16:21:16] <wb9mjn> Yes, it moves into the switch, reverses and then finds the index...i believe...
[16:21:22] <cradek> just home when it goes off the switch then
[16:21:30] <wb9mjn> I can see it reverse and slow down...
[16:21:53] <wb9mjn> Want accurate indexed homeing...
[16:22:08] <cradek> right it will back off from the switch and then search for index
[16:22:39] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/index.html
[16:22:45] <wb9mjn> It might be OK...just that the zero trips the switch...
[16:23:11] <cradek> I think you want the third diagram
[16:23:14] <wb9mjn> Yes, I have reviewed that....
[16:23:36] <wb9mjn> Yep, except the limit off is to the left of the index ....
[16:24:56] <cradek> wb9mjn: I don't understand...
[16:25:17] <wb9mjn> Probably the next diagram down would work, but the index would be just right of the release, and left of the trip..
[16:25:27] <wb9mjn> Will go give that a try...
[16:25:28] <cradek> maybe your final home position is wrong so it's inside the switch
[16:25:42] <cradek> you should have it pull away from the switch on the final homing move
[16:25:42] <wb9mjn> See where the 3.000 index is?
[16:25:49] <cradek> which picture?
[16:26:21] <wb9mjn> The last one is what I am going to try, the one above, is what is happening, but with the 3.000 index between the
[16:26:25] <wb9mjn> trip and release...
[16:27:01] <cradek> wb9mjn: I think in picture #3 it would ignore the index between the trip/release and go to the next one
[16:27:34] <wb9mjn> Yea, it does...but then when it exits to normal operation, at 0.000 (my home value) the limit is still active...
[16:28:16] <cradek> oh just move HOME_OFFSET so 0 is outside the switch
[16:28:23] <wb9mjn> By going to the bottom diagram, the hysteresis will be taken care of, and the index will be prior to the positive going trip...
[16:28:53] <cradek> HOME_OFFSET = -0.3
[16:29:06] <wb9mjn> I could make home offset +.25 ? But think I ll try diagram 4 first...
[16:29:20] <cradek> HOME_OFFSET should be negative (up) I think
[16:29:21] <wb9mjn> This is the Z axis, max up is 0 the way its setup ...
[16:29:42] <wb9mjn> Let you know what happens...
[16:29:42] <cradek> after homing it will go down 0.3 from the index and call that 0 (HOME)
[16:30:01] <cradek> ok you'll get it :-)
[16:30:08] <cradek> this is a bit hairy to get right
[16:32:07] <jtr> So you can use the limit switch as a home switch?
[16:32:17] <cradek> yes
[16:32:28] <jtr> ok.
[16:32:43] <cradek> there is lots of flexibility in homing
[16:32:52] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/ini_homing/index.html
[16:33:04] <cradek> there's a nice picture here
[16:34:05] <jtr> I have that open - was scanning to see if limit switches were mentioned.
[16:34:27] <cradek> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS
[16:34:44] <cradek> then in HAL you just hook your switch to both the limit and home inputs
[16:35:34] <cradek> then during homing it is ignored as a limit, and when not homing it's honored as a limit switch
[16:42:41] <jtr> Ok, thanks. I see it now.
[16:44:53] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder if inductive sensors are sensitive enough for homing.
[16:45:29] <cradek> anonimasu: depends just on the repeatability you need I suppose
[16:45:35] <anonimasu> cradek: extreme?
[16:45:49] <anonimasu> cradek: really you can ignore that question..
[16:45:52] <cradek> if you use index and you know your switch will always fire between a certain pair of indexes, that's good enough
[16:45:53] <anonimasu> I have dataheets at work :)
[16:46:18] <anonimasu> cradek: a company that sells 1┬Ám switches ;)
[16:46:31] <anonimasu> repetability that is..
[16:46:38] <wb9mjn> Ok...figured it out hysteresis was more like .050, and was doing diagram 4 by accident (ini typo)...
[16:46:37] <cradek> if the switch is sloppy you'd want to put it centered between indexes
[16:46:52] <wb9mjn> All three axis home now...full auto !!
[16:46:55] <cradek> wb9mjn: yay!
[16:47:18] <cradek> wb9mjn: what emc2 version do you have?
[16:47:42] <cradek> later versions (if using AXIS) have "home all" that you might like
[16:48:09] <cradek> but that's not in the 2.0 release series
[16:49:18] <anonimasu> cradek: I have a feature request/thingie for axis, if you care :)
[16:49:33] <tomp> centering a sloppy swx between index pulses is important, if it gets near egdges, then home doesnt repeat >sometimes<
[16:49:48] <cradek> anonimasu: sure what?
[16:50:18] <anonimasu> cradek: a selection for what tool you are using and a offset button..
[16:50:25] <wb9mjn> The LiveCD Ubuntu 6.06 ...
[16:50:42] <cradek> anonimasu: I don't understand
[16:50:55] <anonimasu> cradek: for setting up tool length offsets without editing the tool table
[16:50:58] <wb9mjn> anonimasu is right...
[16:51:06] <cradek> wb9mjn: ok you won't have "home all" - you will have it with later 2.1 release
[16:51:23] <wb9mjn> Sometimes the limits home switch will trip on one side or the other of the index...
[16:51:31] <wb9mjn> If the trip is too close to the index...
[16:52:52] <cradek> anonimasu: I have to think about how that could be handled. there is a call to make emc reread the tool table, but that's about all we have to work with
[16:52:55] <wb9mjn> These limits switches here will vary by about .002 inch...
[16:53:47] <anonimasu> cradek: nice :)
[16:54:44] <wb9mjn> Now I need to got get a vacumm that can pull the chips out of the slots, high...still full of brass shavings from
[16:54:55] <wb9mjn> the fixtures I made a couple of weeks ago...
[16:54:56] <anonimasu> cradek: editing the file
[16:55:03] <anonimasu> file's might give a bit of a pain I think
[16:55:23] <cradek> anonimasu: yeah it's sometimes trouble to automatically edit a file that's also edited manually sometimes
[16:55:39] <cradek> I just edit the file and hit 'reload tool table' in AXIS
[16:55:42] <anonimasu> though as they are space separated i's probably not too hard
[16:55:56] <anonimasu> cradek: I were pondering with one of thoose nice tool length setters..
[16:56:16] <cradek> oh like a switch you poke with the tool?
[16:56:27] <anonimasu> cradek: Ideally you would have a electronic one.. and push (set tool length) and it'd jog down and set the length for tool _x_
[16:56:30] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:56:41] <cradek> that would be neat
[16:57:03] <anonimasu> in extension with a toolchanger you could set up all your tools at once..
[16:57:16] <cradek> yep
[16:57:20] <anonimasu> total overkill though..
[16:57:36] <cradek> you could actually measure them all with probing BUT you would have to put the results in the tool table yourself.
[16:58:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> so, which app do you people use for doing PCB's?
[16:58:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> eagle?
[16:58:08] <anonimasu> yeah, there are fully automatic ones with pnp outputs and manual ones with a lamp
[16:58:32] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: eagle
[16:58:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> how's the learning curve?
[16:58:56] <cradek> kind of bad
[16:59:02] <cradek> you need to read the tutorial
[16:59:03] <anonimasu> cradek: either way it would be a useful feature :)
[16:59:10] <anonimasu> shower time :)
[16:59:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> cradek: "the" tutorial?
[16:59:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> it comes with it?
[16:59:28] <anonimasu> I need to go to work and fetch the plc.. and start hacking on something to talk to nml
[16:59:37] <anonimasu> on the pc side
[16:59:46] <cradek> I think you can find the tutorial on their site - however I bought a license and they sent a booklet tutorial too
[17:11:05] <jmkasunich> good morming
[17:11:16] <jmkasunich> (at least, its still morning somewhere)
[17:11:19] <cradek> hi
[17:11:28] <cradek> here it is
[17:11:42] <cradek> morning is that part of the day before I get showered
[17:12:59] <jmkasunich> got the lathe moved
[17:13:43] <cradek> cool
[17:17:05] <anonimasu> cradek: I've finished doing stuff/being out in the shop for today
[17:17:20] <anonimasu> cradek: way oil in the hair :)
[17:18:44] <anonimasu> does anyone of you know where to find a example how to talk to nml?
[17:19:11] <alex_joni> hello
[17:19:17] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sure, I know :)
[17:19:21] <anonimasu> alex_joni: got a .c file?
[17:19:35] <anonimasu> alex_joni: or is it the usual "read the wiki" ;)
[17:19:55] <anonimasu> alex_joni: hi, and what's up :D
[17:19:58] <cradek> anonimasu: src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/mdi.py
[17:20:11] <cradek> anonimasu: you can use emcmodule to send commands using python
[17:20:21] <anonimasu> hm, I dont code python :/
[17:20:22] <anonimasu> just c++
[17:20:41] <anonimasu> unless there's a serial port library that's nice to use with python
[17:20:51] <cradek> yes there is
[17:21:06] <cradek> there's a library for everything
[17:21:20] <cradek> hi alex
[17:21:23] <alex_joni> anonimasu: there are lots of examples for nml
[17:21:25] <alex_joni> hi chris
[17:21:46] <alex_joni> anonimasu: even halui.cc, which is c++
[17:22:11] <anonimasu> hm
[17:22:21] <cradek> the parent of all these files is xemc.cc
[17:22:21] <anonimasu> cradek: is python hard to learn?
[17:22:38] <cradek> anonimasu: not the basic things
[17:22:43] <robin__sz> alex_joni, so, know any tame comau dealers?
[17:22:48] <alex_joni> anonimasu: it's easy to read
[17:22:52] <alex_joni> robin__sz: nope
[17:22:55] <cradek> you don't have to be an expert to start using it (just look at me)
[17:22:57] <robin__sz> dang.
[17:23:02] <alex_joni> they are not around these parts :)
[17:23:23] <anonimasu> cradek: what I need is a lib that reads a port and throws a nml message based on what kind of stuff it getsd..
[17:23:26] <anonimasu> ;)
[17:23:42] <anonimasu> or well, a lib for port reading and another for nml..
[17:23:45] <alex_joni> anonimasu: that's exactly how halui wrks
[17:23:53] <anonimasu> is that easy or hard?
[17:23:53] <alex_joni> works even
[17:23:57] <cradek> are you sure you don't want to use halui?
[17:24:00] <anonimasu> alex_joni: (python)
[17:24:05] <robin__sz> alex_joni, the bot has been off for a couple of years and has forgottenthe contents of its ramdisk .. no problem, I have the boot floppies ... but one of them is hard to read .. I got _nearly_ everything off it .. but two files are troublesome :(
[17:24:16] <anonimasu> it'd be a good chance to start with it..
[17:25:30] <robin__sz> unless anyone can think of a better way to try and get data off a floppy other than just mounting it?
[17:25:50] <anonimasu> dd it and make a copy?
[17:26:13] <robin__sz> mmm
[17:26:12] <anonimasu> dd if=/dev/fd0 of=fdX.img
[17:26:14] <cradek> if you mount it, be sure it's write protected
[17:26:23] <anonimasu> there's a switch to ignore errors..
[17:26:24] <anonimasu> also
[17:26:39] <robin__sz> * robin__sz made sure it was write protected
[17:27:53] <anonimasu> alex_joni: halui seems nice and simple also
[17:28:03] <wb9mjn> Gotta retune pids...probably because of the lack of FF2 ... took the vice of thetable, and now it oscillates a little...
[17:28:05] <robin__sz> oh, it copied ..
[17:28:24] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: ff2 is in the latest HEAD
[17:28:57] <wb9mjn> Spindle Speed control this afternnon... thank Alex... will wait for it go get in a general distribution...
[17:29:15] <robin__sz> whats that trick for mounting stuff via the loop device?
[17:29:20] <jmkasunich> cradek: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/shoptask/move-complete.jpg
[17:29:22] <wb9mjn> Off to lunch...
[17:29:46] <jmkasunich> I really should make the last three drawers for the bench
[17:30:08] <jmkasunich> its only been 8 years since I built the bench ;-)
[17:30:20] <anonimasu> mount -t msdos -o loop <file> /mnt/dir/
[17:30:54] <cradek> jmkasunich: now you will spray oil on your scope
[17:30:59] <jmkasunich> I think ff2 will is in version 2.1
[17:31:11] <jmkasunich> cradek: I'm going to have to make a chip guard for the back
[17:32:29] <anonimasu> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/
[17:33:04] <jmkasunich> anybody have any thoughts on where to mount keyboard and display?
[17:33:34] <jmkasunich> need to keep them clear of chips and crud, but not to far from the machine
[17:33:55] <cradek> to the right
[17:33:56] <jmkasunich> I will have a jogwheel, so the keyboard doesn't have to be exteremely convenient
[17:34:24] <jmkasunich> I was thinking about the wall to the right, is that what you mean?
[17:34:25] <alex_joni> it's not loading here :/
[17:34:34] <anonimasu> cradek: I think I'll go with python..
[17:34:40] <anonimasu> cradek: it's a fair enough chance to try it out
[17:34:53] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: whats not, pyserial or my pic?
[17:35:22] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: your pic,. think too many people were loading that
[17:35:26] <alex_joni> now it worked
[17:35:39] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:35:41] <cradek> jmkasunich: on top of that numbered cabinet maybe
[17:35:43] <jmkasunich> yeah, its being served from my dsl, not a speed demon
[17:35:52] <alex_joni> cradek: that's what I was thinking
[17:35:57] <jmkasunich> where the toolbox is right now?
[17:35:59] <alex_joni> instead of that greenish cabinet
[17:36:01] <cradek> yeah
[17:36:08] <jmkasunich> I've gotten used to having that box
[17:36:11] <anonimasu> I hope it isnt a mess to learn :D
[17:36:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jmk, is that the "all in one" lathe?
[17:36:21] <cradek> can you get in those drawers or will you have to move the drill press?
[17:36:23] <jmkasunich> (that is my dad's machinists box, only about 40 years old)
[17:36:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> lathe + mill?
[17:36:29] <jmkasunich> Lerneaen_Hydra_: yes
[17:36:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> the one that was a pita to mill in?
[17:36:36] <jmkasunich> the millhead is on the floor right now
[17:36:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[17:36:56] <jmkasunich> cradek: the drawers open all the way
[17:37:04] <alex_joni> cradek: bad perspective :)
[17:37:11] <jmkasunich> there is more space between the drillpress and machine than appears in the pics
[17:37:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh, I see
[17:37:36] <alex_joni> look at the bottom of the pic.. you can see the distance more clearly
[17:37:41] <jmkasunich> Lerneaen_Hydra_: a few pics of the machine before move, and the parts, are here: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom
[17:38:18] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: what kind of display?
[17:38:23] <alex_joni> CRT or TFT/LCD ?
[17:38:26] <jmkasunich> it will be an LCD
[17:38:44] <jmkasunich> probably a 15", they're down to around $100 these days
[17:38:46] <cradek> you can clean the front of a CRT
[17:39:01] <alex_joni> how about that door behind the machine?
[17:39:03] <jmkasunich> but an LCD is 3" thick instead of 15
[17:39:10] <alex_joni> that one painted in 2 colours
[17:39:18] <jmkasunich> too far away (more persepective)
[17:39:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jmk, nice cap explosion
[17:39:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> load?
[17:39:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> *loud?
[17:39:35] <tomp> a machinist's computer: looks like a tool box, lcd under top (liftys open) kbd slides out from under ( like drawer protector) and has a handle on top
[17:39:39] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I see now
[17:40:02] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: monitor+keyb arm?
[17:40:13] <jmkasunich> thats a possiblilty
[17:40:25] <alex_joni> http://www.sum.co.uk/monitor%20arm.jpg
[17:40:41] <jmkasunich> once the millhead is back on, it might be possible to put the LCD on the machine itself, up high
[17:40:51] <jmkasunich> keyboard is the real challange
[17:40:58] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: like this: http://www.esis.com.au/LCD-Monitors/Arm_LA-518-1.jpg
[17:41:27] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: get one of those flexible keyboards, the ones made out of rubber, and put it right on the desk in front of the machine.. you can wash those off
[17:41:35] <cradek> rayh asked for ideas about this recently - wonder what he came up with
[17:41:39] <tomp> ooh video wall :)
[17:42:05] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: that space in front of the machine would be death for any keyboard
[17:42:21] <tomp> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/apps/videowhale.html
[17:42:24] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: one like this: http://www.engravetech.com/Flexible%20Keyboard%20small.jpg
[17:42:28] <jmkasunich> when I'm turning steel I get chips that are blue hot
[17:43:45] <tomp> distance is your best protection ( short of hard covers )
[17:43:52] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:43:58] <alex_joni> tomp: http://www.akiradisplay.com/admin/board/pds/Videowall%20comparison_A_Akira_122404.jpg
[17:43:59] <jmkasunich> especially vertical distance ;-)
[17:44:25] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: drawer?
[17:44:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> if you get a flexible keyboard then test it first, many of them are made of very very thin plastic
[17:44:31] <tomp> nice: no borders
[17:45:11] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: pack the keyboard in a drawer under the machine while cutting, use a HAL panel for control
[17:45:36] <tomp> so many cnc controls have vertical kbd... for a reason :) (despite being hell to type on,,, but then you dont write novels there :)
[17:46:10] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: interesting idea
[17:46:18] <alex_joni> maybe something like this: http://www.networktechinc.com/images/monitor-keyboard-arm.jpg
[17:46:22] <jmkasunich> my keyboard is 18" wide (pretty standard)
[17:46:43] <jmkasunich> the opening under the center of the machine is 13.5"
[17:47:23] <jmkasunich> yeah, an arm like that might work
[17:47:26] <tomp> alaex_joni: thats the wiggly kind I used in Taiwan.. tried several, the drawer is better
[17:47:44] <jmkasunich> another possibility that just jumped into my head....
[17:48:07] <jmkasunich> empty out the top drawer of the cabinet and put the keyboard in there, with the monitor on the wall above
[17:48:15] <tomp> argh!
[17:49:08] <jmkasunich> ?
[17:49:30] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: go on
[17:49:53] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: there is another possibility for the keyboard
[17:50:02] <jmkasunich> where's that?
[17:50:08] <alex_joni> but you need to make a tray for it, and fix the keyboard to the tray
[17:50:15] <alex_joni> actually a tray is not the best name
[17:50:26] <alex_joni> a sheet of metal with a hinge
[17:50:52] <alex_joni> when not used it can be tilted down in front of those drawers, still beeing under the table margin
[17:50:52] <jmkasunich> flip down to use, flip up to get out of the way?
[17:51:04] <alex_joni> flip down when you don't use it
[17:51:09] <alex_joni> flip horizontal when you need it
[17:51:17] <jmkasunich> oh, you're still looking at under the bench
[17:51:29] <alex_joni> yeah
[17:51:36] <tomp> sorry: but here you could see where the monitor would go & how the key board would pull out http://www.gerstnerusa.com/
[17:51:45] <jmkasunich> keep in mind that I'm standing when running this machine
[17:51:59] <alex_joni> do you need keyb when running?
[17:52:00] <jmkasunich> ideal keyboard height (if horizontal) is about lathe spindle height
[17:52:06] <jmkasunich> not much
[17:53:02] <alex_joni> spindle height is the exact height as the numbered cupboard
[17:53:24] <jmkasunich> yeah - hence the thought about putting it in the top drawer
[17:53:36] <jmkasunich> I pulled it out and stood there pretending to type, not bad really
[17:54:03] <jmkasunich> a 90 degree turn and half a step from looking at lathe chuck to typing
[17:54:47] <jmkasunich> even better might be a tilting shelf like you suggested, attached to the wall above
[17:55:00] <jmkasunich> so when flipped down, its just above the top drawer
[17:55:28] <jmkasunich> that way I wouldn't lose the storage, and I could more easily adjust the angle without my wrists hitting the side of the drawer
[17:55:47] <jmkasunich> flip up against wall when I need to get in the drawers
[17:56:30] <alex_joni> right
[17:56:42] <alex_joni> and tft above that on the wall?
[17:56:46] <alex_joni> might be a bit far from the machine
[17:57:05] <alex_joni> that really screams for a HALUI with DRO
[17:57:13] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:57:33] <alex_joni> surely you can scavange some old BCD numbers
[17:57:55] <jmkasunich> I'm not going to build a display
[17:58:06] <alex_joni> :-)
[17:58:06] <jmkasunich> I'll build a control panel, but the display will be a monitor
[17:58:14] <alex_joni> ok
[17:58:20] <alex_joni> so it should be close..
[17:58:25] <jmkasunich> I wonder how small of an LCD I can get before they get expensive again
[17:58:38] <jmkasunich> mount a 10 or 12" display on the machine millhead
[17:58:39] <alex_joni> btw.. if you don't have the LCD yet.. saw some nice cheap touchscreen ones on ebay
[17:58:53] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[17:58:53] <alex_joni> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-12-17.txt
[17:59:38] <tomp> 14" 15" 99$ tigerdirect
[18:00:35] <alex_joni> hmm.. this looks good : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320061266667&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr12_PcY_BID_Stores_IT&refitem=320061301596&itemcount=12&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
[18:01:50] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/Planar-PT1503NT-15-TouchScreen-LCD-1024-x-768_W0QQitemZ160055275840QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3698QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[18:02:16] <jmkasunich> yours is a complete PC
[18:02:31] <jmkasunich> unfortunately I want the PC part in the box with the rest of the controls
[18:02:48] <jmkasunich> although I could run a remote GUI on the item you found, and let the controller PC focus on realtime
[18:03:01] <alex_joni> ok, just stumbled upon it.. it's a P3 with parport
[18:03:05] <alex_joni> sounds great for emc :D
[18:03:45] <jmkasunich> another thought based on remote GUI... its literally three steps from the machine to the desk where I'm sitting right now
[18:04:16] <jmkasunich> I could run a remote GUI here, and do the "at machine" stuff with halui and display only
[18:04:27] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: http://cgi.ebay.com/Datalux-LMV10-10-4-Inch-Touchscreen-LCD-Display-N-R_W0QQitemZ320061140209QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3698QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[18:06:05] <tomp> still can get docs http://www.datalux.com/lcd_overview.asp
[18:09:36] <tomp> i've used these, got a refurb from them near 150$ for 19" http://www.magictouch.com/addon.html
[18:20:50] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: http://cgi.ebay.com/ELO-Carroll-TouchScreen-9-LCD-Monitor-8001-4511-01_W0QQitemZ320062071481QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3698QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[18:21:16] <alex_joni> hmm.. parallel.. nm
[18:22:42] <jmkasunich> heh, I bet its actually 25 pin serial
[18:22:50] <jmkasunich> its a dumb terminal with touchscreen
[18:23:13] <jmkasunich> lots of good ideas here
[18:24:04] <jmkasunich> I'm leaning towards halui and physical buttons (plus the jogwheel) for frequently used things that need to be located very close to the machine
[18:24:13] <jmkasunich> with an LCD mounted on the machine as the monitor
[18:24:26] <jmkasunich> and maybe no keyboard at all at the machine itself
[18:24:44] <jmkasunich> then run a remote GUI on my main PC 3 steps away, for loading programs and such
[18:25:09] <jmkasunich> if I can find a suitable touchscreen, that could give me even more at-machine controls, and still not need a keyboard
[18:36:27] <wb9mjn> I bought my 50 pin header breakout from Advantech...expensive stuff...
[18:36:53] <wb9mjn> Although the header was a reasonable deal....
[18:37:02] <wb9mjn> Been on their email list since...
[18:46:10] <wb9mjn> Are you guys interested in that computer ? I need to upgrade the stepper milling machine here, if you are not interetested ?
[18:51:46] <jmkasunich> which computer? the one on ebay (PC with flatscreen)?
[18:52:16] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: not sure it even works
[18:52:39] <jmkasunich> if you want it, go for it
[18:52:54] <jmkasunich> I won't be bidding, I have other stuff on my plate right now
[18:53:04] <wb9mjn> The touch panel PC Advantech PPC-153M ...
[18:53:22] <wb9mjn> That is a panel pc, just needs a hard drive...
[18:54:19] <wb9mjn> Need to see if it has USB ports, for mouse and keyboard, to set it up...
[18:55:02] <wb9mjn> It has built in audio...but, the mother board might not be Linux compatible...
[18:55:09] <wb9mjn> Have to look some more to be sure...
[18:57:34] <wb9mjn> can take one small pci add-on card...
[18:58:08] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: 2 usb
[18:58:19] <wb9mjn> Has a LAN port...
[18:58:33] <wb9mjn> Or at least a LAN driver in the support page for it...
[18:59:08] <wb9mjn> too bad they do not have the manual on their website...
[18:59:21] <alex_joni> http://ebay.sunnkinglister.com/jpappa/ik111-6.jpg
[19:00:44] <alex_joni> would be a great emc2 machine at 850 MHz with 256 RAM..
[19:00:55] <wb9mjn> Yep...
[19:02:14] <wb9mjn> Yep,,,that is what it has in it...
[19:02:29] <wb9mjn> You can see it in the boot screen...
[19:02:57] <wb9mjn> Could put that on my Proxon-MF50...
[19:04:17] <wb9mjn> Are you going to bid on it Alex ?
[19:06:08] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: nope
[19:06:19] <alex_joni> I'm in the EU.. shipping would be a problem
[19:06:29] <wb9mjn> might take a rist on it then...
[19:06:44] <wb9mjn> Rather than filling another metal box....
[19:06:49] <alex_joni> wouldn't pay much more than 150$ though..
[19:06:58] <wb9mjn> something like that...
[19:07:10] <wb9mjn> 150 probably wont take it, they are up to 103 already...
[19:07:20] <alex_joni> more than 1 day left..
[19:07:29] <alex_joni> so probably more like 2-300$ on this
[19:07:37] <wb9mjn> yep....
[19:08:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> cradek: wrt eagle, if I have a component that I know the physical dimensions of, but can't find in the part database, is it easy to insert it later on into the layout?
[19:08:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> without breaking something
[19:15:06] <tomp> eagle: help menu : quick introduction : creating a library device
[19:15:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, thanks. something else I've noticed is that I'm unable to get wires to attach to component leads easily
[19:15:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> sometimes they lie on top of each other, but no contact
[19:16:47] <alex_joni> move the components slightly
[19:17:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh
[19:17:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> just that?
[19:17:54] <alex_joni> it works on most schematic editors I tried
[19:18:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[19:18:20] <tomp> and new libs (not in the std free distro) are available at cadsoft website
[19:18:35] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: you're using nets, not wires, to connect pins right?
[19:18:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> cradek: ...
[19:18:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> fsck
[19:19:02] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I told you: you have to read the tutorial
[19:19:05] <tomp> maybe use snap to grid (after placing component on the grid )
[19:19:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> pspice habits kicking in
[19:19:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> cradek: I know, i know, I did look at it a bit :p
[19:19:41] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I only know that because I tried to use it without reading the tutorial too :-)
[19:19:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> haha. ok
[19:20:28] <tomp> the demo xmpl looks like 8 axis hydraulic hexapod control
[19:22:47] <tomp> does rtfx exist? a complimentry acronym for run the farkn examples :)
[19:57:25] <wb9mjn> Hello John? ....Have you done anything to Hal'ize "SPINDLE_ON+INDEX" ?
[19:57:40] <wb9mjn> Oops "SPINDLE_ON_INDEX"...
[19:57:56] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: spindle on index?
[19:58:29] <wb9mjn> Yes....it takes a fourth DAC output and uses it as a speed control for the spindle...
[19:58:35] <wb9mjn> Or any DAC output...
[19:58:49] <alex_joni> I don't understand what that has to do with index
[19:59:06] <alex_joni> you simply connect motion.spindle-speed-out to the DAC you want
[19:59:24] <wb9mjn> With EMC 1, I had "SPINDLE_ON_INDEX" = 3 ....the 4th Motenc-100 DAC output would then
[19:59:33] <alex_joni> or iocontrol.0.spindle-speed-out if you still have emc 2.0.x
[19:59:39] <wb9mjn> put out a voltage from -10 to +10 for the speed...
[19:59:54] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: that's how it works in HAL now
[20:00:07] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: you still have emc 2.0.x right?
[20:00:15] <wb9mjn> Ok....I think I have 2.0x ...
[20:00:32] <wb9mjn> I have the LiveCD Ubuntu 6.06 installed on the harddrive...
[20:01:07] <skunkworks> alex_joni: do you have experience with duel booting
[20:01:22] <alex_joni> skunkworks: in a minute.. let me talk wb9mjn through this first
[20:01:28] <skunkworks> n/p
[20:01:31] <wb9mjn> march thirty paces then turn and fire !
[20:01:35] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: ok, so probably 2.0.5 if you have the latest updates
[20:01:45] <wb9mjn> I did do the updates...
[20:02:01] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: there is a program called iocontrol which controlls I/O (how odd isn't it :)
[20:02:11] <alex_joni> now, that program has some hal pins
[20:02:24] <alex_joni> one of those hal pins is iocontrol.0.spindle-speed-out
[20:02:44] <alex_joni> it will hold a float value of the spindle set
[20:03:00] <alex_joni> so for S500 in the program, iocontrol.0.spindle-speed-out will be 500.0
[20:03:45] <alex_joni> you just need to scale that to match your voltage/rpm,connect it to an empty DAC and you should be set
[20:03:48] <wb9mjn> There was scaling in the spindle_on_index setup too...
[20:04:42] <cradek> you can scale and offset at the dac if you need to
[20:04:51] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: if you open the nist-lathe config you can see the scaling and connections there
[20:05:17] <wb9mjn> Ok...let me take a look...did not look at that one when trying to figure it out on my own...
[20:05:50] <alex_joni> don't bother
[20:05:55] <alex_joni> it's not in v2_0 :)
[20:06:18] <alex_joni> but I can still talk you through this.. if you want :D
[20:06:50] <alex_joni> look at this: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.hal?rev=1.10;content-type=text%2Fplain;only_with_tag=v2_1_branch
[20:07:25] <cradek> alex_joni: I think the motenc dac has scale/offset and that's the simplest way to scale it
[20:07:45] <alex_joni> ok, that's true
[20:08:03] <wb9mjn> Sure...thought I saw that nist-lathe somewhere...guess not...
[20:08:04] <alex_joni> missed that wb9mjn wants a motenc to drive this
[20:08:14] <cradek> no need for a scale block then
[20:08:28] <cradek> yeah he has real dacs, unlike me :-)
[20:09:38] <wb9mjn> The scaling was done with two other parameters in the .ini ...
[20:10:25] <tomp> i seem to need to 'tune' dacs... like set the signal to 0 then measure the pin, inserts that offset: then set max value and set scale, recheck
[20:10:40] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: do you remember what the params were called?
[20:11:00] <wb9mjn> The DAC hardware is all tuned up....0 v in , 0 volts offset....10 volts in , 10 volts out...
[20:11:19] <alex_joni> tomp: that is correct, you would determine the offset (to make it output 0 when commanding 0), and scale to make it output10 when commanding 10
[20:11:20] <wb9mjn> The spindle drive uses 0 to + 10 V for speed signal...
[20:11:26] <wb9mjn> Does not reverse..
[20:11:32] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: what are the ini variables you used before?
[20:12:15] <wb9mjn> On the EMC 1, the variables were max_volts_per_rpm = .005 and min_volts_per_rpm = .000001 ...
[20:12:51] <wb9mjn> The first parameter scales from spindle speed to the cw 0-to-10 volts output...
[20:13:09] <alex_joni> yeah, and the second for reverse.. it's a bit borken
[20:13:16] <alex_joni> because there's no way to offset
[20:13:20] <wb9mjn> So, 2000 RPM puts out 10 volts ...
[20:13:56] <wb9mjn> And put in a reverse RPM value, and it stays near 0....to avoid driving the spindle with too large a negative voltage...
[20:14:21] <wb9mjn> Spindle Drive electronics and motor are unidirectional...
[20:14:34] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/282684
[20:14:42] <alex_joni> that's the basic of it
[20:14:51] <alex_joni> but I'll add the testing for negative next
[20:14:58] <alex_joni> tell me if you get/don't get that
[20:15:04] <wb9mjn> The DAC and Isolator will put out negative , if fed negative...
[20:16:02] <wb9mjn> so, I put this text into the motenc_io.hal ?
[20:17:53] <alex_joni> hang on, I'm working on a version which does only positive output
[20:18:00] <alex_joni> but did you _understand_ the first one?
[20:20:29] <wb9mjn> Yea, kinda....what I do not understand is where to come up with the variable names....
[20:20:41] <wb9mjn> But, that is in the text, so no problem...
[20:20:59] <alex_joni> the variables are in the User Manual
[20:21:09] <alex_joni> and they magicly appear by using "halcmd show"
[20:21:28] <alex_joni> or by selecting halmeter or halshow from the AXIS menu (or the tkemc menu)
[20:21:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKv8_iZRmYk&mode=related&search=
[20:22:02] <wb9mjn> Yea,,,I was looking at the hal show script, and did not see the speed variable...just up / down / fwd / rev ..
[20:24:25] <tomp> Lerneaen: so why was it banned? :)
[20:24:41] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: this might be it
[20:24:42] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/282698
[20:24:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> no idea
[20:25:55] <tomp> emc/borg http://www.l3sys.com/keybd/keybd.html (where a cheap hud?)
[20:35:00] <tomp> computer signaling device (upscale push toy) www.nabaztag.com a bunny animatron can signal machine status
[20:35:36] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: this is nicer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M7o66Ojsh0
[20:35:40] <anonimasu> tomp: sweet
[20:35:41] <anonimasu> :D
[20:37:12] <alex_joni> almost the same one, but a bit funnier
[20:37:14] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt4PhS6RqpI
[20:38:11] <anonimasu> lol
[20:38:54] <wb9mjn> ok, i tried the first one and it errored out "spindle_speed_cmd" not found ...
[20:40:12] <alex_joni> I never wrote spindle_speed_cmd
[20:40:18] <alex_joni> I wrote spindle-speed-cmd
[20:40:57] <wb9mjn> Ok..I see the problem...
[20:41:19] <wb9mjn> Off to try it again....yea, well haven't done text programing in some years...
[20:43:27] <wb9mjn> OK...just typed it wrong on here....
[20:43:48] <wb9mjn> Was s"spindle-speed-cmd" in motenc-io.hal...
[20:44:18] <alex_joni> can you check the rest?
[20:44:30] <alex_joni> maybe copy the motenc-io.hal and put it on pastebin.ca ?
[20:46:05] <wb9mjn> The linkps /sp threw me thought that was a typo....let me get it all in there as you typed it, and double check...
[20:46:33] <alex_joni> sp is signal to pin
[20:46:36] <alex_joni> ps is pin to signal
[20:50:15] <wb9mjn> Ok,....first one is working !!!
[20:50:30] <wb9mjn> spindle is controlled in speed....
[20:50:37] <alex_joni> nice
[20:50:39] <skunkworks> Cool !!
[20:50:45] <wb9mjn> I ll go enter the second one...and we will see how that works...
[20:59:38] <ChrisSmol> anyone know of some g-code for db-9 etc cutouts?
[21:01:22] <alex_joni> http://www.resursadefun.ro/gi37_Verizon.htm
[21:03:30] <cradek> ChrisSmol: I found my DB25 drawing - let me export it to gcode
[21:04:00] <skunkworks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
[21:04:22] <cradek> ChrisSmol: it was written for 1/16th end mill - is that ok?
[21:05:01] <ChrisSmol> yeah, i can modify it, i was going to use a 1/8 end mill so as to use it to put in the two holes, or are you doing that with the 1/16 also?
[21:05:07] <skunkworks> tells me I need to make atleast 2 partitions - root and swap. but what do I maket them? primary or extended
[21:05:36] <cradek> looks like those are drill cycles in this drawing
[21:05:51] <cradek> looks like I used a .120 drill
[21:05:59] <cradek> maybe that's #4 screw?
[21:06:02] <ChrisSmol> ok. i was going to do it all with one tool
[21:06:12] <ChrisSmol> should be a #4
[21:06:19] <cradek> I can do an offset to 1/8th for you
[21:06:20] <ChrisSmol> i figure .125 is close enough to .120 ;-)
[21:06:26] <ChrisSmol> that would be cool
[21:06:52] <cradek> how thick is the material?
[21:07:16] <alex_joni> skunkworks: primary works
[21:07:23] <alex_joni> but you can only make 4 primary's
[21:07:40] <alex_joni> skunkworks: if you plan on having more than 2 doze partitions it's hard
[21:07:57] <skunkworks> just xp and ubuntu
[21:08:02] <wb9mjn> No Joy....limit1.0.out not found....
[21:08:03] <skunkworks> xp is installed
[21:08:16] <skunkworks> 50gb of unallocated space
[21:08:46] <wb9mjn> is that first line right ? loadrt blocks limit1=1 ?
[21:08:51] <alex_joni> use primaries
[21:08:58] <ChrisSmol> hmm. plastic, some is 1/16 and some is 1/8 (roughly) thick
[21:09:01] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: I might be wrong.. been a while
[21:09:28] <cradek> ok I'll use .130 deep, you can change it
[21:09:29] <wb9mjn> everything else says limit1.0 ?
[21:09:42] <ChrisSmol> super, thanks
[21:09:58] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: what's the exact error?
[21:10:19] <wb9mjn> limit1.0.out not found
[21:10:28] <alex_joni> it should be "loadrt blocks limit1=1"
[21:10:35] <alex_joni> then limit1.0.in and limit1.0.out
[21:10:49] <cradek> ChrisSmol: can you measure center-to-center of the holes on a DB9 for me, I'll generate DB9 and DB25 both
[21:10:57] <wb9mjn> Ok...yep....that is what I believe put in there...
[21:11:20] <wb9mjn> going to double check....
[21:11:28] <ChrisSmol> the db-9 holes are .984 apart
[21:12:49] <tomp> 25mm
[21:13:03] <tomp> maybe ( very very close)
[21:13:11] <cradek> ok let me draw the DB9, one minute
[21:19:17] <cradek> ChrisSmol: timeguy.com
[21:20:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 'night
[21:21:06] <ChrisSmol> thanks!
[21:22:55] <cradek> welcome!
[21:22:57] <ChrisSmol> where do you assume the home is?
[21:23:23] <cradek> I was just trying to figure out how to explain that
[21:23:27] <ChrisSmol> heh
[21:23:30] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/db9.png
[21:23:36] <cradek> look at this picture
[21:23:41] <ChrisSmol> yep
[21:23:52] <cradek> see the origin there in the arrows
[21:24:12] <ChrisSmol> got it
[21:24:39] <cradek> the white is the outline you get, the green is the tool path
[21:24:39] <ChrisSmol> looks like the intersection of the bottom of the cutout and the extreme left edge
[21:24:45] <cradek> exactly
[21:25:10] <cradek> I probably should have put it at one of the holes
[21:25:23] <wb9mjn> OK .... its all working !!! typoes...
[21:25:25] <ChrisSmol> i'll move it in the code, i use the center of the cutout as the origin
[21:25:35] <wb9mjn> Negative stuff just goes to 0 ....
[21:25:48] <ChrisSmol> i want to study the g-code to understand it first
[21:25:59] <cradek> if it's a huge pain I can regenerate it
[21:26:04] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: yay
[21:26:05] <wb9mjn> thanks allot Alex .....
[21:26:16] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: seems my HAL-foo is still good :)
[21:26:24] <ChrisSmol> nah, i need to learn g-code properly anyway
[21:26:26] <alex_joni> never got a chance to test any of that :)
[21:26:32] <wb9mjn> and everybody who has done a world of work to get EMC2 into such a much more straight forward thing!
[21:27:03] <wb9mjn> PID tuning, and I am back operational...
[21:27:25] <wb9mjn> Not bad for a friday night, saturday, and part of sunday...
[21:27:36] <wb9mjn> EMC 1 would have taken weeks....
[21:27:51] <alex_joni> wb9mjn: glad you feel that way
[21:27:54] <wb9mjn> (did take weeks) ...
[21:28:52] <wb9mjn> most of it was rewiring for the more complete signal set, and to use the Motenc-100 I/O rather than parallel ports...
[21:31:21] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: you still around?
[21:35:19] <skunkworks> holy sh!t - I have a duel boot machine ;)
[21:35:37] <skunkworks> only took 2 tries. the first try borked my xp setup
[21:35:59] <cradek> now you're only half as bad off as you were before...
[21:36:16] <alex_joni> haha
[21:36:36] <skunkworks> :)
[21:36:53] <skunkworks> I made 3 partions root, swap and home
[21:37:13] <skunkworks> assuming that it all allocated correctly ;)
[21:38:54] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: my monitor is on a post that rises from the back corner of the table, and the keyboard is from an old compac lunchbox that sits in a frame hanging off the monitor
[21:39:11] <wb9mjn> don't let Windows and Linux duel to the death now...hi..
[21:39:16] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: see http://members.shaw.ca/ve7it/p1010065.jpg
[21:39:17] <cradek> LawrenceG: heh I have some of those little keyboards too
[21:39:34] <skunkworks> so question #2 - how would I go about getting the wireless card working?
[21:39:38] <LawrenceG> cradek: hi... I painted mine to match the shoptask
[21:39:48] <cradek> haha
[21:39:56] <cradek> I guess mine look different, forget it
[21:40:04] <cradek> skunkworks: what chipset?
[21:40:30] <cradek> skunkworks: the basic answer is google or ubuntu wiki
[21:40:42] <alex_joni> or ubuntu help forums
[21:40:44] <cradek> skunkworks: some just work nicely (prism)
[21:41:06] <skunkworks> ok. it is a buffalo wli-cb-g54s
[21:41:14] <skunkworks> will do some searching
[21:41:47] <tomp> LawrenceG: what are the switches where the old handwheel was? homing? limits?
[21:42:40] <LawrenceG> tomp: limits... there is kind of a cam I made that trips them on ench end of rotation
[21:47:25] <jmkasunich> LawrenceG: nice
[21:47:42] <jmkasunich> is it easy to type on with the tailstock installed?
[21:51:52] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: the whole thing swivels... it is tight with the tailstock, but it swivels right out of the way when puttutting the tailstock on and off
[21:52:32] <LawrenceG> other than oily fingers, I dont get much junk in the keyboard
[21:54:05] <jmkasunich> what's in the spindle in that pic?
[21:54:10] <jmkasunich> just some kind of an extender?
[21:54:15] <ChrisSmol> cradek, i should be able to just add an offset to all of the x and y positions, in your g-code, right?
[21:54:39] <LawrenceG> the post is the brown thing under the keyboard and it fits in a hole drilled in the corner of the table
[21:54:41] <cradek> yes you could run that code inside a coordinate system like G55, or you could use G92
[21:54:45] <LawrenceG> 1 1/4 pipe I think
[21:55:01] <ChrisSmol> ok, thanks. still new at this.
[21:55:13] <cradek> or you could subtract the right number from each X and Y coordinate :-)
[21:55:17] <jmkasunich> LawrenceG: understood about the pipe
[21:55:21] <cradek> you're jumping right into the hard part then
[21:55:27] <jmkasunich> I'm asking about the mill spindle tooling
[21:56:32] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: yes... an extention with a 1/4" collet with a pcb cutting bit in a 1/4 to 1/8 collet adapter
[21:57:10] <jmkasunich> ok, that's for fine work? (seems rather floppy for any heavy cuts)
[21:57:54] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: the black square is a piece of plexy I milled flat and use to tape pcb on for milling circuit boards
[21:58:11] <jmkasunich> cool
[21:58:23] <jmkasunich> do you have ballscrews?
[21:59:01] <jmkasunich> (I can't imagine trying to do pcb work with the stock screws)
[21:59:30] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich: I built a higher table jig for pcb that I use now and just use the drill chuck... very light loads.. I do have ball screws, but to tell you the truth, I think they were a waste of mone
[21:59:42] <LawrenceG> money
[21:59:49] <jmkasunich> well, my acme screws have about 0.010 backlash
[21:59:57] <jmkasunich> way too much for PCB work I think
[22:00:54] <LawrenceG> my ball screws are not much better... there is too much spring between the nut and the x axis... needs a better connection
[22:01:12] <jmkasunich> oh yeah, that
[22:01:22] <jmkasunich> I've looked at that several times - it needs a better design
[22:01:53] <LawrenceG> if the chip guard was removed, the screw could directly mate to the x carriage
[22:02:06] <jmkasunich> yeah, but it would die quickly from chips
[22:02:36] <jmkasunich> I think it could be stiffened up while retaining the chipguard
[22:03:45] <LawrenceG> yes... a stiffer nut mount would be a great improvement
[22:04:55] <LawrenceG> I would like a better z axis as well
[22:05:14] <LawrenceG> I saw your drawing.... got me thinking now
[22:05:57] <LawrenceG> one really needs a high speed spindle for pcb work....
[22:06:17] <tomp> and maybe an encoder & motor for turning the cross slide ( it's built to be turned )
[22:07:26] <LawrenceG> tomp: that would be interesting
[22:07:35] <tomp> there
[22:08:00] <tomp> there's times when a troyke table is handier than a cnc approach
[22:09:05] <jmkasunich> I plan on pinning my cross-slide - I don't want it turning
[22:09:45] <tomp> then you might be able to gain some swing by lowering it, or put the screw centered under it
[22:10:01] <jmkasunich> when working as a lathe, I want it to be exactly square, not just "kinda" square, which is the best you'll get if you have it motorized
[22:10:34] <jmkasunich> it swings 8" over the table, thats enough
[22:10:53] <jmkasunich> I'm going to be doing enough mechanical mods, lowering the table is a bitt too much
[22:12:16] <anonimasu> agreed
[22:12:39] <anonimasu> kind of square.. makes consistent crap
[22:51:32] <Guest360> heloo
[22:51:37] <Guest360> god night
[22:51:53] <Guest360> i have a one problem
[22:52:59] <Guest360> i like install emc on slack
[22:53:04] <Guest360> its possible?
[22:53:28] <anonimasu> yes.
[22:53:37] <anonimasu> but, it's really not worth the effort..
[22:54:07] <Guest360> how
[22:54:12] <Guest360> its patch
[22:54:20] <anonimasu> You need rtlinux first of all...
[22:54:41] <anonimasu> then you need all the build dependencies for emc..
[22:54:42] <Guest360> my kernel is 2.4.26
[22:54:58] <Guest360> how install rtlinux?
[22:55:06] <anonimasu> it's a kernel patch.
[22:55:56] <Guest360> how?
[22:56:36] <anonimasu> You need to download the patch and apply it to your kernel..
[22:56:59] <anonimasu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RealTime
[22:57:07] <anonimasu> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/RTLinux-HOWTO.html
[22:57:27] <Guest360> ok
[22:57:31] <Guest360> thanks
[22:57:41] <anonimasu> but as I said, it's not worth the work when you can grab the livecd/dualboot ubuntu..
[23:01:03] <alex_joni> anonimasu: rtlinux isn't advised
[23:01:12] <alex_joni> I'd use RTAI
[23:01:19] <alex_joni> you can get it at www.rtai.org
[23:01:19] <anonimasu> alex_joni: isnt that the patches you are supposed to use?
[23:01:36] <alex_joni> anonimasu: nope, RTLinux is the dark side RT :D
[23:01:39] <anonimasu> heh
[23:01:49] <alex_joni> they mostly do the commercial version
[23:02:00] <alex_joni> not sure anyone has run emc2 on rtlinux in the last 1-2 years
[23:02:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:02:23] <alex_joni> it probably won't work at all in the beginning
[23:02:47] <anonimasu> Guest360: did you see what alex wrote?
[23:02:52] <anonimasu> Guest360: pardon my bad memory :)
[23:03:27] <Guest360> how use rtai in slack?
[23:03:37] <alex_joni> some of it is described here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps
[23:59:50] <robin_sz> alex_joni, so I got the 'bot to try and boot from a linux laptop runing ckermit