#emc | Logs for 2006-12-11

[00:00:20] <kdibble> thanks for your time, looks like I have a wall that needs to beat on with my head for a while
[00:00:34] <jmkasunich> sorry we can't be more helpfull
[00:00:55] <kdibble> no problem, I appreciate your hep
[00:01:01] <kdibble> help, grrrr
[00:39:21] <anonimasu> 23:45 < Casper> you really need to learn to read datasheet
[00:55:48] <EldonB46> Qustion: does anyone know of a EMC2 G-code to pure "C0,C1 and maybe M?" code, that could be used to move EMC2 G-code (with all if it nice-ities, [i.e., subroutines]) to a dumber CNC system?
[00:57:54] <EldonB46> Helo, Anybody home?
[01:03:28] <SWPadnos> you mean G0, G1 ... ?
[01:04:38] <SWPadnos> I suspect it would be possible to make a program to unroll loops and subroutines, based on the EMC interpreter
[01:05:05] <SWPadnos> it probably isn't easy, and I'm pretty sure that nobody has done it yet
[01:17:09] <EldonB46> SWPadnos: Thanks, I always do that "G <> C" thing, I'll keep looking and unroll them myself - but it is not much fun.
[01:18:07] <jmkasunich> EldonB46: there is something called "canterp", a version of the EMC interpreter that reads a g-code file and prints the canonical machine commands that are generated
[01:18:18] <jmkasunich> (the commands that would normally go to the maching)
[01:18:33] <jmkasunich> I never played with it, but it might be 2/3 or more of what you want
[01:19:10] <SWPadnos> also the axis preview load does that, but in both cases, you get "motion" output, not a new set of G-codes
[01:20:04] <EldonB46> I'll look for it!, and yes I use the axis interface, and that is what started me thinking.
[01:27:35] <lerman> In general, it cannot be done. That's because the probe command (at least) gets feedback from the machine. That might change the execution of a branch or loop.
[01:27:54] <SWPadnos> but for anything that just does motion and I/O, it can be done
[01:28:03] <SWPadnos> ie, deterministic programs
[01:38:32] <lerman> I would probably do this by making a special version of the interpreter. Whenever a line with an o-word is seen, it would just do its normal thing. When a line without an o-word is seen, just copy the line to the output. One implication of this is that the same parameter file must be available in both contexts. In the EMC interp context, the parameters could affect the flow of control. Also,...
[01:38:34] <lerman> ...the values of the parameters would not be inserted into the generated g-code (although they could be). So, the execution environment would need the same parameter values so that they could be properly inserted.
[01:39:47] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's also a wuestion as to whether the motion should be converted between modes, like inch/mm, absolute/relative, G54 and other offset coordinate sytems ...
[01:39:52] <SWPadnos> question, that is
[01:42:08] <SWPadnos> so lerman - how many Mesa items did you want? :)
[01:43:33] <EldonB46> For my needs, I am always trying to translate one format into another, my last project was to translate Postscript to Vinyl Cutter input to duplicate the same profiles on different media. Also, my wife does a lot of Quilting, Embroidery, and other creative computer run systems, it is nice to share profiles for a lot of reasons!, Thanks for checking.
[01:43:38] <lerman> My inventory of parts I'm not using is large enough, thank you. But when I get around to the electronics for my lathe, that might be the way to go.
[01:44:14] <SWPadnos> why wait - get more parts to keep you warm during those long winter nights!
[01:47:44] <lerman> Well, it looks like you have enough buyers for your qty five, anyway. And I'm not really an FPGA programmer, so there isn't much I can do to write code for it.
[01:47:57] <SWPadnos> heh - no pressure :)
[01:48:04] <lerman> -- I guess I'm saying that you don't really need me for this.
[01:48:12] <SWPadnos> nah, but you may like it
[01:48:38] <lerman> I'm sure I would.
[01:49:27] <lerman> I'm using Jon Elson's boards I my mill and am quite happy with them. -- although the idea of using a printer port for communication gags me.
[01:49:43] <SWPadnos> the PCI bus is a bit faster
[01:50:01] <SWPadnos> though Jon's boards have a bit more protection on the I/O
[01:50:05] <lerman> Speed probably isn't the issue for me.
[01:50:13] <SWPadnos> (unless you get the 7i37
[01:50:22] <SWPadnos> what kind of mill do you hav?e?
[01:50:23] <SWPadnos> have?
[01:50:24] <lerman> I'm not driving steppers.
[01:50:52] <lerman> Bridgeport clone with Elrod ball screws etc. Servo.
[01:51:02] <SWPadnos> the Mesa does PWM at this point - we'll be adding step generation later
[01:51:10] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - the Elrod stuff
[01:51:13] <SWPadnos> too bad it's so expensive
[01:51:32] <SWPadnos> very nice though
[01:51:41] <lerman> Well, the mill itself cost me $400.
[01:51:58] <SWPadnos> then you got a good deal :)
[01:51:58] <lerman> And I needed to have it up and running in a hurry to build some prototypes.
[01:52:20] <SWPadnos> IIRC, the Z drive from Elrod is ~$1900, and X+Y is $1600
[01:52:35] <SWPadnos> I didn't ask about ballscrews
[01:52:39] <lerman> Yup. The head was kind of noisy, but most of the noise was from the top end bearings, not the spindle bearings.
[01:53:05] <lerman> I think I spent around $6000 altogether.
[01:54:54] <lerman> The hardware went together pretty cleanly; although some parts had to be tweaked a little to fit.
[01:55:03] <SWPadnos> I gather BP's are like that
[01:55:25] <lerman> Well, a clone is NOT a BP.
[01:55:28] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure the parts are completely interchangeable ;)
[01:55:28] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:57:23] <lerman> Some are; some aren't. The holes for one of the brackets for the z-axis were inverted in my clone. A completely arbitrary change, as far as I could tell.
[01:57:54] <lerman> Well, I'm out of here. Time to call it a night. Ken
[01:58:04] <SWPadnos> see you
[02:22:04] <robin__sz> * robin__sz is tired out
[02:22:14] <SWPadnos> it's late
[02:22:24] <robin__sz> its 2:20 am here
[02:22:36] <SWPadnos> oh - only 5 hours ahead. damn
[02:22:47] <robin__sz> just finished work :(
[02:22:52] <SWPadnos> bummer
[02:22:57] <SWPadnos> at least you're finished
[02:22:59] <robin__sz> yeah
[02:23:08] <robin__sz> poxy ballistic fire door
[02:23:24] <robin__sz> how I hat making those
[02:24:22] <SWPadnos> ballistic fire - cool :)
[02:25:00] <robin__sz> some sort of fire door thats supposed to be resistant to moderately large firearms
[02:25:24] <robin__sz> for pawnbrokers shops
[02:25:33] <SWPadnos> oh - that kind of fire. you'd think I'd know that, having been a Fire Control Systems Rapairer in the military :)
[02:25:48] <robin__sz> heh
[02:26:04] <SWPadnos> err - Repairer ;)
[03:24:37] <Guest454> Hello
[03:25:10] <Guest454> any CAD/CAM sw avail free for linux?
[03:27:02] <Guest454> ?
[03:29:36] <cradek> the first hit of a google search for linux free cad/cam gives pages of useful links
[03:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> you all missed me? :)
[03:39:33] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: of course
[03:43:48] <A-L-P-H-A> don't heckle if you can't do it well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrABuxM1tHU owned
[11:19:48] <Guest550> what is message:
[11:20:35] <Guest550> "Joint 0 Following eror"
[11:25:17] <anonimasu> it means your machine cant keep up with the commanded position
[11:26:50] <Guest550> please one moment ..
[11:27:28] <anonimasu> what are your values in your ini file for "ferror" and "ferror_min"
[11:29:17] <Guest550> please one moment
[11:30:00] <Guest550> Ferror:=0.050
[11:30:19] <anonimasu> is that inch?
[11:30:24] <Guest550> Min Ferror is =0.01
[11:30:25] <Guest550> no
[11:30:30] <Guest550> is milimeter
[11:30:39] <anonimasu> increase your min_ferror
[11:31:05] <anonimasu> I think you need to setup "P/I/D" to get it smaller, but im not sure
[11:31:27] <Guest550> please one moment
[11:31:32] <Guest550> i go test
[11:31:34] <Guest550> ok?
[11:32:03] <anonimasu> ok
[11:34:20] <Guest550> Ok
[11:34:25] <Guest550> is very good
[11:34:28] <Guest550> thanks
[11:35:10] <Guest550> You it could say me what it is: ferror?
[11:35:24] <anonimasu> following error
[11:35:46] <anonimasu> the difference between where your maching should be and where it is
[11:36:35] <Guest550> How it functions? Please?
[11:37:02] <Guest550> It would like to know the logic
[11:38:08] <anonimasu> you would need to look at the stepgen/whatrever you are using(.hal)
[11:38:45] <anonimasu> there's a better desc at the wiki i think
[11:40:10] <Guest550> Ok
[11:40:16] <Guest550> very thanks
[11:40:31] <Guest550> God Bless You
[11:40:33] <Guest550> OK?
[11:40:50] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:41:06] <anonimasu> bbl..
[11:42:06] <Guest550> bbl?
[11:43:15] <acemi> be back later
[12:09:39] <Guest550> Thanks
[12:14:13] <Jymmmmmm> Jymmmmmm is now known as Jymmm
[13:50:48] <skunkworks> would the 16in/8out also work for the 4 axis pwm out/encoders in? (7i37) (pin out as is now)
[14:14:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[14:15:48] <skunkworks> :)
[14:21:00] <jepler> skunkworks: it looks like the 7i37 and 7i30 pinouts don't match in directions
[14:21:20] <jepler> I would have guessed that 7i30 is the pinout for the 4 axis PWM+encoders
[14:22:36] <jepler> I'm surprised at that, because I don't think 7i30 has any isolation of its own
[14:26:54] <skunkworks> jepler: thanks - I didn't think of looking at those two boards and comparing them.
[14:27:59] <skunkworks> That is odd. (if the pinout was the same - it would be great for my application) not that they could't be changed I guess. I would have to ask another favor of someone.
[14:28:46] <skunkworks> because it looks like the pins are the same on each plug of the mesa board with makes sense.
[14:29:04] <skunkworks> then 3 isolator boards would be pretty safe.
[14:30:29] <skunkworks> that would be 48in/24out
[14:35:06] <jepler> the 7i30 pinout is 12i/12o so it's not even the right balance of directions
[14:37:24] <jepler> you should ask them if they have a product to provide isolation between the 7i30 and the 5i20
[14:37:52] <jepler> The controller connector pinout matches the
[14:37:52] <jepler> 4I27 (2 axis 7I30-2 only),
[14:37:58] <jepler> ^^ just noticed this text in the 7i30 pdf
[14:38:46] <skunkworks> interesting.
[14:55:47] <^eugenics> Hello folks
[14:56:19] <Dallur> hello
[14:56:22] <anonimasu> hello ^eugenics
[14:56:22] <eholmgren> hi
[14:56:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hey chinamill
[14:57:07] <^eugenics> :)
[14:57:12] <^eugenics> Anyone know anything about USB keyboards?
[14:57:34] <^eugenics> for playing piano
[14:57:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no idea...
[14:58:00] <Dallur> no clue
[14:58:40] <^eugenics> Anyone have a good idea for a channel with keyboard knolledge
[14:58:51] <anonimasu> no
[14:59:33] <^eugenics> OK; I shall get on with my steel cutting then ;)
[14:59:56] <^eugenics> Dallur: How is you projects comeing on?
[15:00:07] <^eugenics> +r
[15:00:39] <Dallur> eugenics: pretty good, sent the whole table out for hot galv. and I am still waiting for it to come back, I hope to spend xmas setting it up again and tuning everything
[15:00:54] <^eugenics> cool
[15:01:06] <^eugenics> And your z axis is done?
[15:01:26] <Dallur> eugenics: yup, well still need to make a permanent mount for the sensor but other than that
[15:01:56] <^eugenics> where you able to test it?
[15:02:16] <Dallur> eugenics: somewhat, had problems with EM noise
[15:02:25] <Dallur> eugenics: had to replace all limit switches due to HF interference
[15:02:50] <Dallur> eugenics: So my runs were limited to a couple of CM before the HF would trigger an estop
[15:02:51] <^eugenics> common problem :)
[15:03:36] <^eugenics> 75 ohm coax is a shep way of working with sheilded stuff
[15:04:34] <^eugenics> Dallur: do you have a picture? I would love to see it.
[15:04:36] <Dallur> eugenics: im using shielded cat5 now, with inductive 3 wire switches, that should work and makes plugging/unplugging simple
[15:05:08] <Dallur> eugenics: only the stuff on my web page, have not updated it since I added Z I think, let me check
[15:05:23] <^eugenics> cool, thats a good idea! Network cables, I did not think of that
[15:06:10] <jepler> is there a guide to the permitted current on different US outlet styles (e.g., unpolarized, polarized, grounded)?
[15:06:41] <^eugenics> Dallur: I dont have your bookmark here can you give the link to your site again?
[15:06:56] <cradek> the normal outlet is 15A, the one that optionally accepts the sideways terminal is 20A
[15:07:04] <Dallur> eugenics: Nothing new there but dallur.com and more specifically http://dallur.com/index.php?id=44&tx_lzgallery_pi1[subg]=10&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=41
[15:07:28] <jepler> and ones without ground and without polarization are just old?
[15:07:30] <cradek> unpolarized or ungrounded means it's totally unknown, probably being very old wiring
[15:07:52] <cradek> yeah, best to not use those for anything other than a lamp unless you investigate
[15:08:36] <cradek> (might even be aluminum wire)
[15:11:05] <skunkworks> yeck. I hate old wiring.
[15:11:31] <Dallur> Do you guys know of any usb/parallel port that could work in realtime with emc ?
[15:13:23] <skunkworks> I know the computer that I am using doesn't play well with its usb. (when I plug in a usb key chain drive - I get rt latency errors)
[15:13:35] <Dallur> :(
[15:14:35] <Dallur> My daytime job is currently building an embedded linux system which will sell for <200$ in the us with a 7" monitor, im pretty sure I could create an image with EMC and boot it but it only has USB ports :(
[15:15:23] <Dallur> I know everyone here would just hate me if they could buy an embedded amd geode 800mhz controller with a monitor for <$200 :D
[15:15:42] <^eugenics> Dallur: Is there a ethernet port?
[15:15:52] <Dallur> eugenics: yup
[15:16:38] <^eugenics> maybe you can consider real time ethernet to conrol your styff
[15:17:53] <Dallur> eugenics: possible, the other option is for people to spend just a bit more and get a full board like http://store.orbitmicro.com/commerce/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=39931
[15:17:54] <^eugenics> Too much work right
[15:18:59] <^eugenics> that would be easyer
[15:19:05] <Dallur> eugenics: I was just thinking I would accidentally create a ROM image with EMC while im at it :D that way anyone who would want one of these could buy the product im working on and flash :D
[15:20:11] <^eugenics> a rom image seemes nice
[15:20:42] <Dallur> eugenics: boots of NAND ROM which is loaded into RAM at boot, accessed via an IDE controller
[15:21:39] <Dallur> eugenics: it's solid state all the way, passive cooling and no HDD/FDD/CDROM
[15:21:46] <^eugenics> isnt it cheaper with a usb menory key?
[15:22:04] <Dallur> eugenics: not when you order 1million plus units from Taiwan
[15:22:22] <^eugenics> :) you gonna sell alot
[15:22:34] <Dallur> eugenics: custom motherboard :P im just working as a contractor ..:P
[15:23:53] <Dallur> eugenics: got sucked into this project from my normal stuff, at least it pays well
[15:24:01] <^eugenics> So you have a paying client for your work?
[15:24:18] <^eugenics> great!
[15:24:29] <Dallur> eugenics: not for my emc work, the software that ships with the machines is totally different
[15:25:01] <Dallur> eugenics: I just figured it would be fun to use the hardware for emc :D
[15:25:14] <^eugenics> Do you think you would like an assistant to help you?
[15:25:22] <^eugenics> ok
[15:26:12] <^eugenics> I need to work
[15:26:41] <^eugenics> I have a masters in science, so I can be handy
[15:27:24] <Dallur> eugenics: I'll keep you in mind :D
[15:27:33] <^eugenics> Btw, anyone would be very welcome to offer me a little job
[15:28:35] <^eugenics> Dallur: I have already done the paperwork for setting up a firm, so everything will be leagal, with garatie
[15:29:02] <^eugenics> I pay tax :)
[15:31:40] <Dallur> eugenics: at the moment it's a one man job (creating a prototype kernel with demo), but if I get more work than I can handle I will keep you in mind
[15:32:24] <acemi> I can compile emc2/HEAD with classicladder in Debian Sarge. what is wrong? http://pastebin.ca/275459
[15:32:30] <acemi> I can't
[15:34:00] <Dallur> perhaps jepler can help if he is around, he ported classicladder v. 0.7 to emc2
[15:40:01] <cradek> acemi: I suspect the real error was earlier, and it was of the form "can't find an include file"
[15:40:11] <cradek> you're probably missing some required -dev packages
[15:40:16] <jepler> acemi: what did compile print after it said "Checking for libgnomeprintui-2.2" ?
[15:40:32] <jepler> did it print "yes", or "no -- printing from classicladder will not be possible"?
[15:40:38] <acemi> jepler yes
[15:41:03] <acemi> checking for libgnomeprintui-2.2... yes
[15:42:09] <jepler> please paste the compile ouptut again, starting from the line Compiling hal/classicladder/print_gnome.c
[15:42:23] <acemi> 1 sn
[15:42:28] <jepler> on down to Make: *** ... Error 1
[15:43:38] <acemi> http://pastebin.ca/275472
[15:44:27] <jepler> before the line #include <gtk/gtk.h> try inserting the line #include <gdk/gdktypes.h>
[15:44:56] <jepler> in hal/classicladder/print_gnome.c
[15:49:40] <acemi> my machine is old, it compile slowly
[15:49:42] <jepler> the error appears to be that GdkPixmap is not recognized as a type. On my system, gdktypes.h provides a typedef, and is included by gtk.h
[15:51:44] <acemi> the same error
[15:52:50] <Dallur> is it possible that gtktypes is not installed, I think in some distros you can install gtk without installing gtktypes
[15:53:34] <jepler> acemi: show me the contents of the file depends/hal/classicladder/print_gnome.d
[15:54:00] <acemi> but there is no problem when it compiles drawing_sequ... and there is GdkPixmap in it too
[15:55:34] <acemi> where is depends/ directory
[15:55:45] <jepler> acemi: emc2/src/depends/
[15:56:07] <jepler> acemi: if you remove the package libgnomeprintui-dev and re-run configure it should build without compiling print_gnome.c, but you won't be able to print your classicladder configuration.
[15:56:13] <acemi> I have no depends/
[15:56:35] <jepler> it is created when you compile
[15:56:47] <jepler> it would be very strange to not have it
[15:57:10] <acemi> my compile and source directory is not the same 1 min
[15:57:50] <jepler> I have never tested with the build directory different from the source directory. it may be broken.
[15:58:54] <jepler> (though I don't know why it would cause this particular problem)
[15:59:40] <acemi> http://pastebin.ca/275490
[16:04:55] <jepler> acemi: save and try compiling this test program: http://pastebin.ca/275498
[16:07:04] <acemi> it gives error
[16:07:16] <acemi> http://pastebin.ca/275501
[16:07:30] <acemi> " Böyle bir dosya ya da dizin yok" means there is no file
[16:07:34] <SWPadnos> bork bork bork
[16:08:22] <SWPadnos> is it possible that you don't have gtk-dev installed?
[16:08:44] <SWPadnos> (that shouldn't be possible, since it looked like other gtk stuff got compiled)
[16:09:12] <jepler> acemi: acemi did you use the commandline I showed in the pastebin? gcc `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2` printtest.c `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 libgnomeprintui-2.2`
[16:10:27] <acemi> it compiles now
[16:11:13] <jepler> now find the compiler emc is using. grep CC Makefile.inc
[16:11:21] <jepler> on my system this shows CC = gcc-3.4
[16:11:26] <jepler> but on yours it may show something different
[16:11:56] <acemi> 3.3
[16:12:06] <acemi> sorry
[16:12:08] <acemi> 3.4
[16:13:04] <jepler> try compiling again but use what it shows after "CC =" instead of gcc
[16:15:05] <acemi> it compile but it gives some warnings
[16:15:13] <jepler> these? warning: `visibility' attribute directive ignored
[16:15:19] <acemi> yes
[16:15:43] <acemi> grep CC Makefile.inc
[16:15:43] <acemi> CC = gcc-2.95
[16:15:55] <acemi> but 3.4 is installed
[16:18:47] <jepler> if it is not important to print your ladders, then a way forward may be to remove the package libgnomeprintui2.2-dev, re-run configure, and recompile
[16:20:00] <acemi> normally I use etch and there is no problem with it
[16:20:32] <jepler> etch is newer than sarge, correct?
[16:20:36] <acemi> yes
[16:21:03] <acemi> I only try to find what is wrong
[16:22:51] <jepler> is it possible for me to have ssh access to the system with the problem?
[16:25:25] <acemi> normally I don't use emc2 with this machine
[16:27:08] <anonimasu> 6hm
[16:27:14] <anonimasu> why not?
[16:30:42] <jepler> if you want to give up that's fine with me, but I don't have a machine with this problem so I can't do anything further on my own.
[16:31:14] <acemi> ok , 1 min
[16:31:29] <acemi> I must change router config
[16:32:08] <jepler> My SSh public key is: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEAv4xLaTI1lYQeBYeFLKzkDcPMH2KCyp7BucdAr7PSO+c/21Z+M5v+kmv8DBrTyrQGXZtD/Cu0rybgj1fRIPl6BUQMJTQxZndG9obCMkMHmPG9FtO7UsPIGYziqu+HSkuy+w/NKm4BCxb/RAFrhrZMe3epAH96XU+68silla74bv
[16:32:12] <jepler> oops
[16:32:14] <jepler> My SSh public key is: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEAv4xLaTI1lYQeBYeFLKzkDcPMH2KCyp7BucdAr7PSO+c/21Z+M5v+kmv8DBrTyrQGXZtD/Cu0rybgj1fRIPl6BUQMJTQxZndG9obCMkMHmPG9FtO7UsPIGYziqu+HSkuy+w/NKm4BCxb/RAFrhrZMe3epAH96XU+68silla74bv=
[16:35:05] <acemi> it's ready
[16:35:46] <acemi> after export CC=gcc-3.4 I think it's OK
[16:36:11] <eholmgren> oh noes, jepler is stealing your internets
[16:36:25] <jepler> oh really?
[16:36:26] <SWPadnos> it's that last = sign that does it
[16:37:26] <eholmgren> are there and latency issues with having a wireless card in system running EMC?
[16:37:59] <eholmgren> in a
[16:38:03] <SWPadnos> that should depend on the card, like a regular ethernet card
[16:38:03] <acemi> jepler it's ready, you can connect
[16:38:08] <jepler> for the userspace portions of emc2, we try to use the same compiler as was used for the kernel, but I've never been sure if it was upsersticion or necessary
[16:39:16] <jepler> acemi: what is the machine name/IP address and what name should I use to log in?
[16:39:43] <acemi> acemi@
[16:40:40] <acemi> emc2 is in proje/emc2
[16:40:54] <jepler> hm it asks me for a password. I wonder if I still pasted my key incorrectly.
[17:05:35] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/print_gnome.c: re-order declarations to support old compilers such as gcc 2.95
[17:06:46] <jepler> oops, I meant to commit that on the HEAD first
[17:07:06] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/print_gnome.c: merge re-order declarations to support old compilers such as gcc 2.95
[17:12:36] <jepler> acemi: looks like it's fixed. thanks for your report and for allowing me to use your machine.
[17:13:08] <acemi> thanks you too
[17:14:54] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07improved-dpkg * 10emc2/debian/control.in: libgnomeprint2.2-dev is required to build classicladder with printing support
[17:15:20] <jepler> oops I am not doing well at checking things in on branches today
[17:16:03] <jepler> oh well, no harm done
[17:19:18] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/debian/control.in: libgnomeprint2.2-dev is required to bud classicladder with printing support
[17:19:27] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: merge rev 1.6: libgnomeprint2.2-dev is required to build classicladder with printing support
[17:19:30] <jepler> and then there are the typos
[17:19:41] <jepler> * jepler goes and hides
[17:26:02] <SWPadnos> what a nice flower - the classicladder bud :)
[17:31:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm - jepler, are you still around?
[17:34:16] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I think I have my father talked into getting one. (5I20) know more this week.
[17:34:28] <SWPadnos> ok. I just called them - very nice people
[17:37:43] <jepler> SWPadnos: yes
[17:38:28] <SWPadnos> ok - actually, this concerns anyone who's in on the group buy
[17:38:50] <SWPadnos> I just talked to Mesa sales, and they will do lots of stuff for us, like drop shipment
[17:39:24] <SWPadnos> they'll also take separate payments, so we effectively do multiple purchases on one "invoice"
[17:39:50] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how people would want to get their CC or other payment info to Mesa though, so I thought I'd ask for opinions
[17:40:24] <jepler> I would not mind passing it through you or jmkasunich if that's easiest
[17:41:17] <SWPadnos> well, it depends on how it's passed. I can take PayPal, which doesn't require you to send me your CC info - I just get the payment.
[17:41:50] <SWPadnos> Or, I can aggregate CC info gotten from relatively secure means, and pass the numbers over the phone to MEsa
[17:42:03] <SWPadnos> (not sure how secure private IRC chat is, for instance)
[17:42:14] <SWPadnos> I just wanted to get a gauge of poeple
[17:42:30] <SWPadnos> I just wanted to get a gauge of people's "paranoia level"
[17:42:35] <skunkworks> how much would the cost be + paypal fees?
[17:42:44] <skunkworks> and shipping
[17:43:03] <SWPadnos> paypal costs me 2.9% + $0.30, shipping is relatively cheap, unless you want overnight ...
[17:43:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks isn't in that much of a hurry ;)
[17:43:26] <SWPadnos> They'll drop-ship though, which is nice
[17:43:51] <skunkworks> so then it would be in our individual name (for warntee?)
[17:43:54] <SWPadnos> well, that's good to know - they don't have many more 5i20 cards than we want to order, some of us may be waiting a little while
[17:44:10] <jepler> I'd rather avoid the paypal fees if I can -- giving my CC to you over the phone, or sending you a check or money order sounds better to me
[17:44:21] <SWPadnos> warrantee isn't an issue regardless. all you need to know is the invoice number and the name on the invoice, and they'll warrantee it (2 years)
[17:44:29] <skunkworks> good
[17:44:36] <SWPadnos> jepler, ok - thanks. that's the kind of info I'm looking for :)
[17:44:50] <skunkworks> no problem here - over the phone/check
[17:45:06] <SWPadnos> if I do the single shipment thing, then I'll just make copies of the invoice for everyone
[17:45:34] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/worst-splash-screen-evar.png
[17:46:00] <jepler> (not to mention that it crashes when I choose a game)
[17:46:06] <anonimasu> jepler: scary
[17:49:28] <jepler> -p <+/->
[17:49:28] <jepler> permanent brain on/off default: off
[17:50:01] <SWPadnos> damn - I knew I got up on the wrong side of that switch today ;)
[17:51:53] <SWPadnos> ok - Peter Wallace will email me the files needed to regenerate the FPGA bitfile sometime in the next few days
[18:01:08] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: what are you thought on re-arranging the pin out of the 4 axis servo to work with the 7i37 issolator boards? (plus up/down pwm)
[18:01:30] <SWPadnos> it should already, on the generic I/O connector
[18:04:00] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, what do you think won't work with the isolator board?
[18:05:19] <SWPadnos> err - nevermind. I see it in the pinout file
[18:05:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[18:28:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: still having issues with the pluto?
[18:40:37] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: get what I am saying? :)
[18:53:26] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, yes - I see it now :)
[18:55:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm - lemme see. each axis has 3 outputs (pwm/dir/enable) and 3 inputs (quadA, quadB, index), so a single connector can support 4 axes if it's split 50/50 input vs. output
[18:55:57] <SWPadnos> the 7i37 is split 3:2 input vs. output, so I'm not sure we can make it match :)
[18:56:03] <skunkworks> I was thinking that it would require 2 boards
[18:56:20] <skunkworks> span them over to plugs.
[18:56:25] <SWPadnos> well, that's kind of a bad plan from a wiring perspective, I think
[18:56:27] <skunkworks> my thought anyways
[18:56:57] <SWPadnos> 2 axes = 6 inputs + 6 outputs, so you have 2 extra outputs and 10 extra inputs per cable
[18:57:39] <SWPadnos> it would make sense for there to be an isolator card that takes a "motor connector" pinout
[18:57:50] <skunkworks> yew
[18:57:53] <skunkworks> yes
[18:57:57] <SWPadnos> yew tew
[18:58:00] <skunkworks> :)
[18:58:13] <SWPadnos> that reminds me - I should get a string for my bow
[18:58:22] <skunkworks> jepler said we should ask mesa about that.
[18:58:27] <skunkworks> or I should anyways ;)
[18:58:47] <SWPadnos> heh - I didn't, but I expect to be in contact with them a bit more in the near future :)
[19:11:39] <eholmgren> musical or weapon of death?
[19:12:19] <SWPadnos> weapon of target death
[19:12:39] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I've ever had a string on this bow, in the last 20 years ;)
[19:15:01] <eholmgren> archery was always fun in gym class ...
[19:15:06] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:15:15] <eholmgren> until someone inevitably shot the wall or ceiling
[19:15:29] <SWPadnos> heh -we always did it outdoors, so that wasn't an issue
[19:19:00] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, I think for the direct H-bridge application, you could use only two outputs per motor. enable would be implicit in the state of up/down (both on means "brake", both off means "coast" - or the opposite)
[19:19:37] <SWPadnos> that would allow you to do 4 axes on one isolator card, and leave a few inputs for overcurrent sense or something
[19:20:20] <SWPadnos> so each axis becomes UP and DOWN outputs, and A, B, Index, OC inputs
[19:25:18] <lerman> Encoders really *want* to be differential. (I say that even though my machine has single ended encoders).
[19:25:52] <SWPadnos> there's a separate card for the 4-axis motor interface, the 7I33
[19:26:14] <SWPadnos> that has differential inputs for 4 encoders (with index), plus analog filtering for the 4 PWMs
[19:26:23] <SWPadnos> plus enable outputs for the servo amps
[19:26:29] <SWPadnos> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i33man.pdf
[19:30:23] <lerman> I sometimes think that less might be more. A backplane that had small cards that could be used for a single servo interface OR 8 inputs OR 8 outputs might be nice. That way we could build systems to suit.
[19:31:04] <SWPadnos> yeah - having a conglomeration of signals on one connector is often more painful that separate headers would be
[19:32:17] <lerman> Wiring with screw on connectors is a PITA. If the screw ons have plugs on them that can help.
[19:32:51] <SWPadnos> hmmm - usually screw connectors are preferred for the connections between the controller and the machine parts (drivers, limit switches, etc.)
[19:34:07] <jepler> SWPadnos: I was looking at the 7i30 h-bridge earlier, it looks like the pinout matches the 7i33's. but neither one has isolation, and neither one matches their isolation board, 7i27.
[19:34:10] <SWPadnos> I think it's too bad that the motor side of that card is a 50-pin ribbon cable. screw terminals would avoud the need for a breakout card
[19:34:18] <jepler> hope I got all the board names right
[19:34:19] <lerman> Well, on my machine, I go from the screw connectors to sockets (microphone connectors) on the front panel. Then the cables to the limit switches have plugs. The servos on connected with speaker connectors.
[19:35:32] <SWPadnos> right - the 7i37 is for a generic I/O connector (8 out, 16 in), but that I/O split doesn't support motors well
[19:36:51] <lerman> Someone might build a board with 50 pin connectors having opto isolated input AND output (both) for each signal. Then use the one you are configured for. Sure, it wastes some hardware, but that's pretty cheap.
[19:37:12] <SWPadnos> one or two are cheap, 24 are less so ... :)
[19:44:23] <lerman> Well, then just get a blank board and populate it the way you want.
[19:44:46] <SWPadnos> that's another option of course
[19:45:17] <SWPadnos> you can also do something like massive numbers of jumpers, but it would be very ugly
[19:46:17] <lerman> Hmmm. Suppose you could build a chip that has the jumpers you need. Configure them with software. Oh. That's what an FPGA does.
[19:46:27] <lerman> :-)
[19:46:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:49:18] <SWPadnos> the lack of isolation is one of my main gripes about the mesa card, but this discussion has convinced me that isolation would be a real pain to implement well, and it would limit the flexibility of the board
[19:51:48] <lerman> Are people using the HOSTMC or the SOFTDMC firmware?
[19:52:08] <SWPadnos> hostmot4 is the only config supported by the EMC2 driver at this point
[19:52:34] <lerman> That would probably be fine for my use.
[19:53:10] <SWPadnos> it's pretty flexible already, and the reason many of us are looking at buying the cards is to add more options
[19:53:25] <skunkworks> the question is at what point is it isolated. My h-bridge has optos at the input - do I need optos at the mesa card? Also - encoders are isolated - do I need isolation at the mesa?
[19:54:08] <SWPadnos> Pete W of Mesa also wants to add some functions (like step/dir, and pin functions controlled in software - so you can use an unused encoder input as a generic bit, for example)
[19:54:35] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, you probably don't need isolation then, but you should still have some ESD protection
[19:54:49] <skunkworks> rigth
[19:54:51] <skunkworks> right
[19:55:11] <skunkworks> at what point are you being too safe :)
[19:55:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I'm not sure there is a point for that
[19:55:42] <SWPadnos> there may be a point where the time / money / effort isn't woth it any more though :)
[19:55:46] <SWPadnos> worth
[20:42:07] <robin__sz> meep?
[20:42:21] <robin__sz> * robin__sz is noe the proud owner of a 6 axis robot :)
[20:43:32] <Jymmm> robin__sz what is 'blob' in Brit Speak?
[20:44:23] <A-L-P-H-A> binary large object
[20:44:26] <anonimasu> lol
[20:44:30] <anonimasu> robin__sz: congrats
[20:44:45] <anonimasu> robin__sz: woah your soul must be worth alot :D
[20:44:50] <robin__sz> heh
[20:45:02] <A-L-P-H-A> what cha gonna do with a 6 axis robot?
[20:45:06] <A-L-P-H-A> make femmebots?
[20:45:15] <anonimasu> err must have been..
[20:45:16] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:45:17] <jepler> grumble, there doesn't seem to be any nice SOIC optoisolator in eagle's library
[20:45:33] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler: doesn't take that long to draw one. :)
[20:45:37] <robin__sz> Jymmm, a blob? well a "blob of glue" is a sort of medium sized drop, referring to a person it would mean "fat"
[20:45:54] <robin__sz> A-L-P-H-A, robot welding
[20:46:02] <A-L-P-H-A> robin__sz: cool.
[20:46:23] <Jymmm> robin__sz ah, ok. thanks
[20:47:31] <cradek> SWPadnos: I fear the MINI-MATE-N-LOCK 794194-1 connectors...
[20:47:41] <cradek> SWPadnos: are those the kind that take an expensive special tool?
[20:47:46] <SWPadnos> f33r them!
[20:48:10] <SWPadnos> I think you need the tool for extraction, but pin insertion is usually easy
[20:48:20] <SWPadnos> (but I have no experiencewith those exact connectors)
[20:49:24] <cradek> mouser has them for $1 ea
[20:50:46] <cradek> + .15/pin
[20:51:19] <SWPadnos> that's not bad
[20:53:42] <robin__sz> the guy who I got the 'bot off was a bit upset ...
[20:53:57] <robin__sz> it was an Ebay purchase ... brand new, never used
[20:54:31] <robin__sz> I got it for £850 ... he paid £20,000 ...
[20:54:55] <SWPadnos> at least he has the space now, and he caqn invite all his friends out for a beer :)
[20:55:08] <robin__sz> well ... there is that
[20:57:33] <robin__sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250057435443
[21:03:01] <anonimasu> nice toy :)
[21:06:44] <A-L-P-H-A> nice steal
[21:07:04] <anonimasu> yeah only had to sell a small piece of your soul.. :D
[21:07:59] <A-L-P-H-A> cosmic karma will eat robin__sz a live... maybe someone will pay him 4.25% of the actual cost of a project one day. :| but hey... not stops cosmic karma.
[21:08:42] <robin__sz> it was a bit of my sould I dont use anyway
[21:09:58] <anonimasu> :)
[21:10:12] <Jymmm> robin__sz: Enjoy! http://portableapps.com/apps/games/sudoku_portable
[21:13:18] <robin__sz> windows only ...
[21:13:23] <A-L-P-H-A> sudokucombat.com is better... you can play head to head
[21:13:43] <Jymmm> robin__sz: It's portable (doens't need to be installed) and can run under wine
[21:13:49] <SWPadnos> http://www.websudoku.com/
[21:14:05] <robin__sz> dont have wine either :)
[21:14:09] <A-L-P-H-A> sudokucombat.com beats it
[21:14:30] <SWPadnos> there's also a Gnome version (but it doesn't seem to detect when you've completed the puzzle)
[21:15:00] <robin__sz> I always worry that wine will somehow expose my linux box to some random windows vulnerability
[21:15:16] <A-L-P-H-A> sudokucombat.com is web only.
[21:15:37] <SWPadnos> no - you need to run things with wine --enable-virus-execution to do that ;)
[21:22:34] <robin__sz> I HOPE THE 'N
[21:22:35] <robin__sz> B
[21:23:15] <robin__sz> I hope the bot is better than there website, which is a poor collection of badly linked pages and failing Javascript
[21:25:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh noes
[21:25:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> not suduko
[21:25:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> *sudoku
[21:25:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I don't really enjoy applying a 8-level nested simple if/else filter, no difficulty in that
[21:26:03] <robin__sz> quite
[21:26:12] <robin__sz> its not a "brain teaser" .. its just a procedure
[21:26:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> exactly
[21:26:30] <robin__sz> once youve done one, youve doen them all
[21:26:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> just lots of nested levels
[21:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> yup. I spent and hour writing a solver when I did my first puzzle.
[21:26:53] <robin__sz> writing the solver is more fun
[21:26:55] <A-L-P-H-A> robin__sz: it's more enjoyable when you compete against someone you know.
[21:27:00] <A-L-P-H-A> did it.
[21:27:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> robin__sz: that can be fun
[21:27:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> but anyway
[21:27:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 'night all
[21:27:16] <robin__sz> night
[21:27:24] <A-L-P-H-A> night?
[21:27:33] <A-L-P-H-A> itsn't it only like 2200hr?
[21:27:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> as in g'night :p
[21:27:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 22:30
[21:27:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> but I get up at 06:00
[21:27:51] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[21:27:57] <A-L-P-H-A> night
[21:28:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> and have both math and electricity lectures
[21:28:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I miss my sounds.
[21:28:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> whee :D
[21:28:14] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid linux is broken again... for sound.
[21:28:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> poke at it with a stick
[21:28:24] <robin__sz> I did it in Perl with a simple matrix of hashes a while ago, just keep cycling around the solutions until stuff resolves
[21:28:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> and hope it works
[21:29:13] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab.
[21:36:44] <simon__> Just got my new THK KR33. Im so impressed by this unit. My wife is not that impressed...
[21:38:31] <Jymmm> simon__: Can you trade the wife for another one?
[21:39:48] <simon__> Jymm: Just gave her my credit card so that she can purchase some scrapbooking stuff.
[21:40:09] <simon__> Then she wont notice that i have the car full of THK stuff.
[21:40:17] <Jymmm> THK for scrapbooking supplies... sounds like a fair tradeoff to me =)
[21:40:40] <Jymmm> you did say supplies and not equipment, right?
[21:40:46] <skunkworks> I have the same problem with car
[21:40:54] <skunkworks> upgrade equipment
[21:42:11] <skunkworks> fuel controler, injectors - stuff like that ;)
[21:46:00] <Jymmm> skunkworks: And when you get the shiny new rims, you can put on one at a time then she won't notice =)
[21:46:43] <skunkworks> oh - if I got rims they would only be for wieght reduction.
[21:47:19] <skunkworks> * skunkworks doesn't like 'bling'
[21:53:50] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos doesn't know what "bling" is
[21:53:58] <SWPadnos> (or care, for that matter)
[21:55:18] <jepler> I'm against the <BLING> tag
[21:56:57] <SWPadnos> heh - is that like <MARQUEE>? :)
[21:58:55] <skunkworks> big wing/spinners/neons - stuff like that
[22:08:46] <Jymmm> bling == anythign shiny, chrome, neon, gold, diamonds, etc
[22:10:48] <SWPadnos> bald people's scalps...
[22:11:15] <Jymmm> I dont think you have that problem
[22:11:27] <SWPadnos> hard for me to tell ;)
[22:12:18] <Jymmm> heh
[23:40:07] <mdynac> how can i get emc to boot straight into tkemc with kde or gnome desktop? i just want a barebones software, basically emn2 onny and whatever it needs to run...is this possible?
[23:40:44] <mdynac> in other words boot like a machine tool....
[23:40:59] <SWPadnos> do you use a login on that machine, or is it configured to go straight to the desktop?
[23:45:18] <mdynac> i login at the moment....
[23:45:41] <SWPadnos> ok. without a login, there are X or even init-based options
[23:46:09] <SWPadnos> with a login, I'm sure there are gnome and/or KDE options to automatically run programs, but I don't know what they are offhand :(
[23:47:20] <mdynac> actually i don't even want gnome or kde, now browsers word processors.......
[23:48:34] <SWPadnos> I think there's an option to have no login, which is probably what you want. you can then add something to one of the X startup files or init to run emc
[23:48:53] <mdynac> okay...
[23:49:14] <SWPadnos> others who have more unix admin experience may disagree, and if they do, they're right :)
[23:49:40] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I've got to run. I hope someone who knows more than I do can help you
[23:49:56] <mdynac> later