#emc | Logs for 2006-12-08

[00:00:27] <robin__sz> and you need to stay in the area for work right?
[00:02:07] <Jymmmm> Well, it's not a bad job. Pretty much do 45 minutes worht of work in 8 hours, then whatever else you want. So I could find another one, but not as sweet. And they give raises plus pay for your to get your CCNA/CCNP
[00:03:03] <Jymmmm> they'll even pay for the books AND the tests (up to 5 times if you fubar that much =)
[00:04:18] <Jymmmm> So I plan on doign design stuff at work, then produce it when I'm home.
[00:05:18] <Jymmmm> But I need to find a home *heavy sigh*
[00:05:46] <Jymmmm> all this lip service isn't doing my blood pressure any good.
[00:10:51] <tomp> cradek: mdynac has his emc2 wire edm running ( congratulations mac!). do you have the url please?
[00:11:27] <jepler> tomp: the photos mdynac sent to cradek are here: http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/edm
[00:11:32] <tomp> thanks
[00:21:28] <tomp> the emc replaced the pdp8 and it's ptr, nice work
[00:36:54] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/pluto_servo.comp
[00:36:58] <cradek> oops
[00:37:21] <skunkworks> :)
[00:37:36] <cradek> tomp: I saw, it looks like a nice cut on his first part doesn't it
[00:40:25] <tomp> yes, the sides look very uniform, I'm impressed & I was very skeptical... he did a good job
[00:40:47] <cradek> yes he did
[00:40:58] <cradek> he said we deserve the credit but I'm not so sure :-)
[00:41:17] <tomp> and thanks to rayh et all the crew behind G52
[00:42:01] <cradek> yep it took several of us to do it during fest...
[00:42:36] <cradek> wonder what we'll do next year
[00:44:00] <tomp> try 4 axis ( 2 paths on 2 xy sets) sync'd for 4 axis wedm :-)
[00:44:32] <cradek> pretty sure you could already do that
[00:45:03] <tomp> yeh, it's more of a post problem
[00:45:20] <Jymmmm> Oh man... I want a warehousr like that.... nice FULL lighting plus windows.
[00:45:37] <cradek> yeah it's a very nice looking "shop"
[00:46:00] <Jymmmm> Hell, that solve out "housing" problem that's for sure =)
[00:46:04] <Jymmmm> our
[00:46:14] <tomp> yeh, clean & well lit, and cardboard virgins... must be heaven
[00:49:53] <Jymmmm> carboard virgins?
[00:50:57] <Jymmmm> disabled css - MUCH better!
[01:14:23] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini: fix axis speed slider
[01:16:15] <Jymmmm> Ok, I get the cardboard thing now =)
[01:18:21] <EldonB46> cradek: I have been doing alot more reading, I took you suggestion, only one G10 was necessary as the Bolt hole centers can be specified via the "call", I guess I was trying to make it harder then it is. Thanks
[01:19:01] <cradek> EldonB46: you're welcome - glad you figured out a way to solve it
[01:19:44] <EldonB46> cradek: Did a lot of reading in the source code - fun stuff!
[01:20:39] <cradek> EldonB46: ooh, not sure I agree completely...
[01:21:26] <cradek> EldonB46: are you planning on adding some stuff?
[01:22:04] <EldonB46> cradek: Looks like I need to obtain a few REF docs as used in the source.
[01:22:35] <EldonB46> Yes, will add more just as a programming exercize.
[01:23:35] <cradek> how about doing rigid tapping for me then? :-)
[01:23:45] <jmkasunich> darn you cradek!
[01:23:51] <SWPadnos> and negative feedrates
[01:24:02] <cradek> jmkasunich: now what did I do?
[01:24:06] <jmkasunich> you made a commit
[01:24:20] <cradek> I do that sometimes...???
[01:24:22] <jmkasunich> now my machine is having a thrashfest as the VMs do their builds
[01:24:40] <cradek> so when should I do the next one?
[01:24:55] <jmkasunich> dunno
[01:25:42] <cradek> hmm
[01:25:45] <jmkasunich> whats odd is that with the VMs niced, they shouldn't really screw things up
[01:25:56] <cradek> nice doesn't help much if it's swapping
[01:26:29] <EldonB46> cradek: I was a little surprised to only find coordinate translation and not also rotation in the source - but then I am new to CNC and maybe expecting too much. wait one, I'll have to catch up on reading this thread.
[01:26:40] <cradek> if I set just an A limit of a limit3 block, the default value limit is 0, so it doesn't do anything
[01:27:22] <cradek> EldonB46: I agree that would be nice - jepler wrote kinematics that would do it (a "virtual" C axis)
[01:27:40] <cradek> (is there no way to limit A but not anything else?)
[01:27:47] <cradek> * cradek asks instead of reading the source...
[01:27:58] <jmkasunich> cradek: huh?
[01:28:06] <jmkasunich> you want accel limit but no velocity limit?
[01:28:15] <cradek> jmkasunich: yes
[01:28:18] <EldonB46> cradek: Were you asking about was I going to "add" stuff to my CNC code or to the source - source NO - just looking!
[01:28:39] <cradek> jmkasunich: and no min/max
[01:28:54] <jmkasunich> cradek: I think the default values for min and max are bigval and -bigval
[01:28:58] <jmkasunich> but I could be wrong
[01:29:05] <cradek> halcmd shows 0
[01:29:17] <jmkasunich> when you said "it doesn't do anything" do you mean it doesn't limit, or the output is clamped to zero?
[01:29:30] <cradek> sorry, it always outputs 0
[01:29:47] <jmkasunich> ok, set max and min appropropiately
[01:29:54] <cradek> I don't see any initial values in the comp
[01:29:57] <jmkasunich> 1e20 and -1e20 perhaps ;-)
[01:30:04] <cradek> jmkasunich: ick
[01:30:07] <jmkasunich> comp?
[01:30:11] <cradek> limit3.comp
[01:30:17] <jmkasunich> hmm
[01:30:27] <jmkasunich> does the original code in blocks.c set initial values?
[01:30:33] <cradek> trying to find that now
[01:31:04] <cradek> _yes_
[01:31:22] <jmkasunich> I don't recall if it was me or jeff that ported it to a .comp
[01:31:32] <jmkasunich> I guess whoever it was missed something
[01:32:05] <cradek> I wonder if params can have nonzero defaults
[01:32:15] <jmkasunich> in .comp? dunno
[01:32:22] <cradek> yes
[01:32:23] <cradek> I'll fix it
[01:32:44] <jmkasunich> thanks
[01:33:57] <cradek> while parsing OptString():
[01:33:56] <cradek> > param rw float min_=-1e20;
[01:33:56] <cradek> > ^
[01:34:00] <cradek> ok, maybe I won't
[01:34:05] <cradek> it doesn't like my e
[01:35:09] <jmkasunich> hmm
[01:36:33] <jmkasunich> this pains me... I have an old computer, perfectly fine for running EMC... but no real need for it, and I don't have space for it
[01:36:38] <jmkasunich> so I'm about to scrap it
[01:36:39] <SWPadnos> how about -100000000000000000000
[01:36:43] <cradek> * cradek squints at inscrutable python
[01:36:57] <cradek> SWPadnos: ouch, but that's what I'm about to do
[01:37:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:37:04] <SWPadnos> .0
[01:37:24] <cradek> jmkasunich: how fast?
[01:37:44] <jmkasunich> ummmmm
[01:38:08] <jmkasunich> less than I thought
[01:38:18] <jmkasunich> I thought it was a P3, but its a P3
[01:38:20] <jmkasunich> P2
[01:38:24] <jmkasunich> can't read the numbers yet
[01:39:15] <jmkasunich> 450MHz I believe
[01:39:58] <jmkasunich> 16G HD, Zip drive, CD burner, DVD reader
[01:40:25] <jmkasunich> only 160M ram, but I have that
[01:40:56] <jmkasunich> AGP ATI video card, 4PCI + 2ISA slots
[01:43:13] <jmkasunich> nice big case with 2-3/4" of empty space above the PS and about a 6" cube of empty space in bottom front - a clever person could fit a Xylotex 3 axis drive board and moderate power supply in this box
[01:48:09] <cradek> 450 is a fast P2
[01:48:23] <cradek> keep the parts I guess...
[01:48:34] <cradek> if it had two processors I'd ask for them, I'd like a matched set of 450s for mine
[01:48:39] <jmkasunich> I just couldn't bring myself to do it - I found a spot between the furnace and the water heater
[01:48:44] <cradek> heh
[01:48:48] <cradek> I know the feeling
[01:48:54] <cradek> need a 21" monitor to go with it?
[01:48:59] <jmkasunich> maybe I'll bring it to the fest and see if I can find it a home
[01:49:13] <cradek> yeah, maybe someone can use it. sounds complete and ready to use.
[01:49:21] <jmkasunich> no - in fact, I just put the 17" one (or maybe 19") that was with it out on the treelawn for the trash men
[01:49:43] <jmkasunich> its not quite complete - I think there might be a hard disk problem
[01:49:52] <jmkasunich> it starts to boot, then hangs
[01:50:02] <jmkasunich> (Its got some flavor of doze on it)
[01:50:18] <jmkasunich> I have plenty of disks tho, before the fest I'll do a swap
[01:51:04] <jmkasunich> to be honest, the case is the most interesting part because of all the empty space
[01:51:32] <cradek> just mount some geckos on the inside of the door...
[01:51:59] <jmkasunich> not enough space for a gecko class machine
[01:52:07] <jmkasunich> the drives might fit, the power supply wouldn't
[01:52:32] <jmkasunich> 3 geckos = 500-1000 watts of power supply
[01:52:59] <jmkasunich> 3 channel xylotex = 100-300 watts - more reasonable
[01:53:46] <jmkasunich> make that 50-200, xylotex won't do 300
[01:55:13] <cradek> hmm, no manpage for "threads"
[01:55:22] <jmkasunich> no manpage for a lot of things
[01:55:29] <cradek> what's the format again?
[01:55:39] <cradek> thread1=t something1=1000000
[01:55:49] <jmkasunich> loadrt threads name1=foo period1=10000 name2=bar period2=12341235
[01:56:52] <cradek> I don't think limit3 is right
[01:57:12] <cradek> if I set maxa to 500 and in to 500, out should be 500 in one second right?
[01:57:31] <jepler> cradek: it's not the python that's the problem, it's the regular expressions :-P
[01:57:36] <jepler> I'll see if I can fix it
[01:57:41] <jmkasunich> lemme think
[01:57:42] <cradek> jepler: it's not a big deal, I used some zeroes
[01:57:51] <jmkasunich> accel at 500 /second^2
[01:58:00] <cradek> jmkasunich: no, I think I'm wrong
[01:58:19] <jmkasunich> after a half second, the velocity will be 250, avg vel 125, and you will have traveled 62.5
[01:58:24] <jmkasunich> so yes, you are wrong ;-)
[01:58:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: permit exponential-format numbers with no decimal point
[01:58:57] <cradek> whee
[01:59:53] <cradek> since spindle speed is a velocity, not a position, I want to limit the first derivative (maxv)
[02:00:02] <cradek> I think that'll give me what I want
[02:00:08] <jmkasunich> then you should use limit2
[02:00:11] <cradek> right
[02:00:20] <jmkasunich> (which is _much_ simpler)
[02:00:24] <Gran3D> patient person to help newbie compile emc2 for first time? anybody?
[02:00:39] <jmkasunich> compiling from CVS?
[02:00:59] <jepler> cradek: what are you working on?
[02:01:31] <cradek> jepler: I want to simulate some spindle mass - it shouldn't be able to start and stop immediately
[02:02:03] <jmkasunich> oh, doing a simulated spindle?
[02:02:10] <jepler> Gran3D: section 3 of this page describes building emc2 from source on ubuntu systems: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[02:02:13] <cradek> yes
[02:02:42] <jmkasunich> limit 2 is the way to go then
[02:03:13] <jmkasunich> max and min are the spindle speed limits in rpm, maxv is the ramp rate in rpm/second
[02:03:18] <cradek> it still seems wrong
[02:03:30] <cradek> with maxv=500 it takes ~ 2 seconds to get to 500
[02:03:36] <cradek> I must be clueless
[02:03:37] <jmkasunich> hmm
[02:03:40] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: merge rev1.9: permit exponential-format numbers with no decimal point
[02:04:01] <jmkasunich> cradek: bin/halcmd save and pastebin it
[02:04:47] <jmkasunich> (so I can run the same config)
[02:04:54] <cradek> http://pastebin.ca/271148
[02:05:09] <cradek> ugh, it saves the tmax
[02:05:19] <cradek> that's bogus
[02:05:30] <SWPadnos> it's a feature
[02:05:35] <jepler> that's a consequence of getting rid of the third parameter direction, I think
[02:05:38] <jepler> well, maybe not for tmax
[02:05:44] <jepler> forget it
[02:05:50] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[02:05:51] <SWPadnos> err - hmmm - lemme think. yeah - "tracks max execution time acorss runs!"
[02:06:00] <SWPadnos> across, even
[02:06:10] <jmkasunich> tmax can be set by the user, therefore it is saved
[02:06:20] <jmkasunich> (tmax is just another param, nothing special about it)
[02:06:42] <SWPadnos> it should be metadata instead, but that's too hard at the moment
[02:07:30] <Gran3D> jmkasunich: Was following instructions from linuxcnc page titled installing emc2. When I type ./configure, the following error message comes up after a lot of good(?) stuff. checking for /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.15-magma/include/linux/version.h... no
[02:07:30] <Gran3D> configure: error: version.h not found - Is the kernel headers package installed ?
[02:07:34] <EldonB46> Just FYI, because of a typo on the rev of the EMC2_User_Manual that I have - it took me a very long time to find info on G91 - the manual is miss typed as "13.17.11 G90, G99: Set Distance Mode" - no problem now that I know, Thanks.
[02:09:14] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (limit1.comp limit2.comp limit3.comp): default limits
[02:10:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (limit1.comp limit2.comp limit3.comp): default limits
[02:10:07] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: fix typo: g99 should be g91
[02:11:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: fix typo: g99 should be g91
[02:11:07] <jepler> EldonB46: thank you for pointing that out
[02:12:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: you seem to have found a bug
[02:12:28] <jmkasunich> with maxv = 500, it takes 2 seconds instead of 1 to ramp from 0 to 500
[02:13:11] <EldonB46> jepler: I think I have a current manual - but maybe not.
[02:14:06] <jepler> EldonB46: you were exactly right, but I've fixed it for the next revision of the manual
[02:14:59] <jmkasunich> bizarre - limit2 has the same result
[02:15:08] <jmkasunich> the code in limit 2 is very very simple
[02:15:33] <jmkasunich> too simple to be wrong, I thought
[02:15:39] <cradek> limit2 isn't working for me at all!
[02:15:49] <jepler> test it with blocks and find out when the problem first came about?
[02:15:53] <jmkasunich> don't forget the addf?
[02:16:13] <jmkasunich> (I did the first time I tried limit2)
[02:17:03] <jepler> 760 190.500000
[02:17:03] <jepler> 761 190.500000
[02:17:03] <jepler> 762 191.000000
[02:17:03] <jepler> 763 191.000000
[02:17:20] <jepler> streamer shows that the output only changes half the time, unless I got something wrong in my test
[02:17:47] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/271172
[02:17:55] <jmkasunich> scope agrees when I zoom in enough
[02:18:36] <jepler> blocks doesn't have this problem
[02:18:44] <jepler> it gets to 400 after 800 samples
[02:19:21] <Gran3D> how to tell if kernals header package is installed? Does /usr/include/version.h indicate this?
[02:19:49] <jmkasunich> data.old_out = out;
[02:19:49] <jmkasunich> out = tmp;
[02:19:58] <jmkasunich> should be data.old_out = tmp;
[02:19:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/runtests: fix error message
[02:20:08] <jepler> Gran3D: on ubuntu, look for /usr/src/linux-headers-<kernel version number> or use 'dpkg -l'
[02:20:26] <cradek> Gran3D: you can get most of what you need with 'sudo apt-get build-dep emc2'
[02:21:34] <jmkasunich> I'm fixing limit2
[02:21:49] <jmkasunich> (I hope the limit3 problem is the same, if so I'll fix both)
[02:23:04] <Gran3D> jepler: /usr/src is empty
[02:23:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/limit3.0/ (expected test.hal): add new tests of limit3 component: one for blocks and one for comp. comp currently fails.
[02:23:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/limit3.1/ (expected test.hal): add new tests of limit3 component: one for blocks and one for comp. comp currently fails.
[02:23:57] <jepler> Gran3D: Is this an ubuntu system or some other linux distribution?
[02:24:51] <Gran3D> jepler: Ubuntu from the CD
[02:25:18] <jepler> Gran3D: have you run the precompiled version of emc2 yet?
[02:25:55] <Gran3D> yes
[02:26:01] <jmkasunich> limit2 is fixed
[02:26:11] <jepler> Gran3D: then probably you need to start with the 'apt' commands shown in section 3.1 of http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[02:26:47] <jepler> Gran3D: that should install the packages (including the kernel headers you mentioned earlier) that you need to build emc2 from source
[02:27:49] <Gran3D> jepler: Thanks. I'll run thru the instructions as listed
[02:30:56] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/sim/lathe.hal: simulate spindle mass
[02:33:27] <A-L-P-H-A> if I want flash videos, I have to install wine, win32 firefox, flash?
[02:33:44] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: wrong channel
[02:34:06] <A-L-P-H-A> :P like we never get off topic.
[02:34:13] <cradek> sorry, that was rude
[02:34:15] <jepler> ubuntu has a package called 'flashplugin-nonfree' but using it may make you go blind
[02:34:23] <cradek> (just a lot of emc stuff going on right now)
[02:35:00] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler: I have the flash plugin, and I've made the edit to allow sound... just that it's buggy still. oh ohwell.
[02:35:22] <cradek> there's a flashplayer 9 (beta?) for linux that's somewhat better
[02:35:25] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: you didn't mention that it need to work exactly right
[02:35:53] <cradek> I don't remember where I got it - it was kind of hidden
[02:36:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using flash 9 linux beta... it works. kinda. still crashes a lot. oh ohwell.
[02:36:12] <cradek> yeah, sucks
[02:36:18] <cradek> too bad the web uses non-free software
[02:37:20] <cradek> I tried the gnu flash player but it doesn't really work for anything yet
[02:38:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/save.0/expected: recent changes to hal and halcmd altered the format of 'halcmd save' output slightly
[02:40:50] <EldonB46> For a "newbe" who or what is "HEAD"
[02:41:21] <cradek> the "top" of development
[02:41:53] <cradek> these messages represent changes we're making to the source code
[02:42:17] <cradek> v2_1_branch is a "branch" we're stabilizing for a 2.1 release, while HEAD is the branch that's for new features/development
[02:42:29] <tomp> A-L-P-H-A: no need for wine to watch swf in ffox/opera on linux, but use the flash >7< plugin for more compatibility
[02:42:30] <A-L-P-H-A> didn't adobe just release something that's open standards flash ro something to mozilla?
[02:42:39] <EldonB46> This text must be post processed into notes for the dev team? - sounds good to me!!
[02:43:16] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: before they bought macromedia, adobe produced a SVG plugin. svg is a free, xml-based standard for drawing flash-type effects. but many speculate that they will drop it now that they own flash.
[02:43:17] <cradek> these are copies of our log messages recording what we've done
[02:43:47] <cradek> with every change we record who, when, and WHY the change was made, that's what you're seeing
[02:43:55] <A-L-P-H-A> tomp: serious? flash 7, use the alsa fix, and it should work better?
[02:44:21] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/press/mozilla-2006-11-07.html this is what happened.
[02:44:36] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, seems like a scripting engine.
[02:44:57] <tomp> i view more sites succesfully w 7 than 9 (ie taschen's web design: flash sites (all work w 7 ))
[02:45:09] <A-L-P-H-A> something about AS3.0 as well...
[02:45:15] <A-L-P-H-A> looking more for just youtube.
[02:45:20] <A-L-P-H-A> with sound.
[02:45:43] <cradek> sound is easy -- synchronized sound, not so easy
[02:46:05] <tomp> oh, adobe is opening up actionscript
[02:47:04] <tomp> we have svg becuz gtk+2 has cairo
[02:47:06] <A-L-P-H-A> linux has been a uphill battle for a long time. First it was 3 monitors (crappy drivers were the problem, then driver breakage), sound was another issue (still a prob), roaming wifi (still a prob), and added to this list... flash, which isn't linux's fault, but adobes.
[02:48:22] <SWPLinux> Linux with all free software can be a problem in many of those areas
[02:49:01] <SWPLinux> I suspect that the X servers from XIG can do multiple screens nicely
[02:49:05] <cradek> grumble grumble
[02:49:20] <EldonB46> Good Chats, Good Night!
[02:49:22] <cradek> nvidia's closed driver can, but ... grumble grumble
[02:49:22] <SWPLinux> since they actually get to look at the manufacturer's docs
[02:49:27] <cradek> goodnight EldonB46
[02:49:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know, I went to nvidia, after ati couldn't get 3 monitors to work after x.org 6.8
[02:49:32] <SWPLinux> night EldonB46
[02:49:34] <tomp> nite
[02:49:45] <A-L-P-H-A> lates whoever you are.
[02:53:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder how good of a move that is to have flash open sourced... as least it's player. What threat does adobe perceive, that I don't see. MS? Google? Then again, they were giving away the player since the beginning, so I guess that isn't going to hurt them much. And adobe flash (the creator) has such a dug in stance, that to unseat them would require something monumental.
[02:58:57] <Gran3D> Getting now up to first part of "installing emc2" 3.2 Getting the source, using cvs and release, but says "cannot make directory emc2-2.0.5: Permission denied" right away. ???
[02:59:27] <jepler> Gran3D: you need to run that command (apt-get ... source) in a directory you can write to, such as your home directory.
[03:00:20] <Gran3D> jepler: I'll check that
[03:00:40] <jepler> Gran3D: did the 'apt-get build-dep' steps go OK?
[03:03:05] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (limit2.comp limit3.comp): fixed a bug in limit2 and limit3 - the code was running at half-speed
[03:04:07] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (limit2.comp limit3.comp): fixed a bug in limit2 and limit3 - the code was running at half-speed
[03:08:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/threads.0/test.hal: sampler cfg= strings no longer take a width
[03:09:39] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tests/save.0/expected: merge rev1.2
[03:09:47] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tests/threads.0/test.hal: merge rev1.3
[03:11:12] <cradek> I'm sure thrilled about mac's success today
[03:12:12] <jmkasunich> yep, thats pretty cool
[03:13:34] <skunkworks> jepler: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout.PNG
[03:13:39] <skunkworks> * skunkworks shakes head
[03:14:31] <jepler> skunkworks: couldn't get a single-sided layout? :(
[03:14:41] <skunkworks> first attempt
[03:14:51] <skunkworks> maybe. I just let it autoroute
[03:15:08] <skunkworks> scary looking :)
[03:15:32] <cradek> skunkworks: bleah
[03:16:04] <cradek> if those are for screw terminals you won't be able to solder on top anyway
[03:16:12] <cradek> same for the headers actually, yuck
[03:16:36] <cradek> (if you have long headers you might be able to keep them up enough to do it)
[03:16:37] <skunkworks> I know
[03:16:50] <skunkworks> * skunkworks gets a glass of wine
[03:17:10] <cradek> mmm
[03:18:28] <skunkworks> way too many i/o on that little board ;)
[03:18:27] <SWPadnos> you could make a bigger board, and orient the headers so the pluto plugs onto it (instead of all the ribbons)
[03:18:46] <cradek> I think that's my intent
[03:18:49] <skunkworks> thought about that.
[03:18:56] <cradek> (if I rebuild my driver board)
[03:19:37] <jepler> skunkworks: what are pads 69 and 70 for?
[03:19:44] <skunkworks> 5v for encoders
[03:19:49] <jepler> ah
[03:20:26] <skunkworks> I put a ground next to each i/o and ground and +5 by each encoder
[03:20:47] <skunkworks> probably why it looks so scary
[03:21:39] <jepler> put GND on a plane and it'll look a little better right away
[03:21:56] <jepler> er, a polygon
[03:23:39] <SWPadnos> is there an eagle pattern that uses square pads for pin 1? (on the headers)
[03:24:06] <skunkworks> not that I have found
[03:24:15] <cradek> you can do that in the drc settings
[03:24:59] <jepler> but the part has to be made properly
[03:25:03] <jepler> (designate pin 1)
[03:48:56] <Jymmmm> Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh of relief
[03:49:21] <SWPLinux> found a place?
[03:49:34] <cradek> yay!
[03:50:12] <SWPLinux> or inherited a fortune, so you can leave that stinking town and go to Hawai'i where the birds can roam free?
[03:50:25] <Jymmmm> Well, this guy we've been waiting on for 3.5 months left a msg today that he was out of town and that he returned the msg that the carpet guy left him.
[03:50:45] <SWPLinux> oh - that makes perfect sense
[03:50:44] <Jymmmm> That tells me that he is willing to move forward.
[03:50:55] <SWPLinux> bummer about the fortune
[03:51:23] <Jymmmm> Well you have to have all animals going into Hawaii quarentined for 180 days
[03:51:50] <Jymmmm> all live animals that is
[03:51:56] <SWPLinux> too bad they don't do that with people
[03:52:49] <Jymmmm> I dont' care about anything right now... that was just such a sigh of relief to hear. I was getting ready to find a motel + stoage place.
[03:53:29] <Jymmmm> We already have the electricity, gas, water, phone, and dsl turned on in the place.
[03:53:49] <SWPLinux> so it was basically waiting for carpet?
[03:53:51] <SWPLinux> wow
[03:54:26] <Jymmmm> No, many plumbing repiars and the known leak in the roof. *IF* we get carpet in there, that's just a bonus.
[03:54:32] <SWPLinux> heh - ok then
[03:54:52] <Jymmmm> A friend told me about a place that has cheap carpet pricing and I passe dthe info to this guy.
[03:55:38] <Jymmmm> He's cheap, he's said so. So if carpet was going to be $1300, it wouldn't happen, but My firned had it installed by this guy for $750. So we might get it.
[03:56:05] <Jymmmm> The roof leak casue water damage to the wood floors.
[03:56:20] <Jymmmm> So it be cheaper to put in carpeting than repair the floors.
[03:57:10] <SWPLinux> as long as the damage is only cosmetic, sure
[03:57:25] <SWPLinux> but if you fall through the floor (carpet) in a year or two, it may not be worth it
[03:57:57] <Jymmmm> Wouldn't care if it wasn't, as long as I dont fall thru, and if it feels weak, I already have some plywood cut to the perfect size.
[03:58:12] <SWPLinux> heh
[03:58:41] <Jymmmm> and I have a few pounds of drywall scews too
[03:59:30] <Jymmmm> I wasn't kidding about the plywood.... I used it here for storage in the attic crawl space.
[04:00:37] <Jymmmm> I just feel like saying "OMG! OMG! ....................................OMG! " over and over agian.
[04:00:55] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm just can't stop sighing.
[04:01:28] <Jymmmm> Not knowing where you are going to live has GOT to be the worse feeling in the world!
[04:01:38] <SWPLinux> no - that's "I'm so happy, I can't stop crying" - Sting
[04:01:47] <SWPLinux> believe me, I know
[04:01:55] <Jymmmm> If it was just me alone, shit I could sleep in the thing - it's big enough.
[04:01:57] <SWPLinux> we had an interesting experience almost buying a house
[04:02:21] <Jymmmm> I dont think I've ever been so happy that I even started to cry. heh
[04:02:43] <SWPLinux> well, the Sting song is ironic - it's about a divorce ... ;)
[04:02:50] <Jymmmm> yeah =)
[04:04:08] <Jymmmm> what was the interesting thing?
[04:05:01] <SWPLinux> oh - we had placed a bid on a house, and it was accepted
[04:05:22] <SWPLinux> it was contingent on financing, and we were using a VA loan, so there are certain things that they're sticklers about, like inspections
[04:05:47] <Jymmmm> that's cool
[04:06:10] <SWPLinux> so we get the appraisal, and it's almost exactly what the sellers were asking. the only problem was that the furnace, roof, and external (buried) oil tank would need replacing within the next couple of years
[04:06:32] <Jymmmm> can you deal with that?
[04:06:33] <SWPLinux> additioanlly, we had a buyer-broker to pay, and the sale was through "For Sale By Owner"
[04:07:14] <SWPLinux> so we tried to meet them halfway - $10k worth of nearly immediate things to do for the VA loan, let's pay them $5k less, and we'll eat $5k
[04:07:37] <SWPLinux> they said "we're not taking a penny less than our asking price. if you can't afford it, then screw you"
[04:07:47] <SWPLinux> this was ~3 weeks before closing
[04:07:55] <Jymmmm> they literally said "screw you" ?
[04:07:57] <SWPLinux> so we had already given notice on our apartment
[04:08:01] <SWPLinux> more or less
[04:08:11] <Jymmmm> k
[04:08:12] <SWPLinux> and it was already rented to the next person
[04:08:39] <SWPLinux> so we had to scramble to find a place, with only 3 weeks to go, one of which we had a cruise scheduled for
[04:09:29] <Jymmmm> oh man....
[04:09:35] <SWPLinux> it wasn't the greratest week (before the cruise) trying to find a place in our market, which is 99.5% filled
[04:09:37] <Jymmmm> was this recently?
[04:09:45] <SWPLinux> no - 8 years ago or so
[04:09:48] <Jymmmm> ah, ok.
[04:10:02] <Jymmmm> Well why would you schedule a cruise within weeks of moving?
[04:10:06] <SWPLinux> no worries now unless we miss too many mortgage payments ;)
[04:10:25] <Jymmmm> well, just start collecting those bottles and cans
[04:10:26] <SWPLinux> we didn't eset the period in update_freq, and every the cruise had been scheduled long before - we were moving pretty fast on the house
[04:10:33] <Jymmmm> ah ok
[04:10:37] <SWPLinux> what
[04:10:46] <SWPLinux> did I say?
[04:11:03] <SWPLinux> heh - an accidental ctrl-V in there ;)
[04:11:06] <Jymmmm> heh
[04:11:16] <SWPLinux> the cruise had been scheduled long before - we were moving pretty fast on the house
[04:11:19] <SWPLinux> there - that's better
[04:11:53] <Jymmmm> np, I dont' care... I'm starting to get this lil grin on my face (this is a good thing)
[04:11:57] <SWPLinux> we actually had to move into one place for a month, then move into the place we wanted, since it wasn't available when we needed it
[04:12:26] <SWPLinux> ah well - good that things are looking up for you
[04:13:32] <Jymmmm> Until the keys are in my hand.... I'll still be on edge, but things are getting brighter.
[04:14:06] <SWPLinux> yep - that's always the way
[04:14:59] <Jymmmm> I never grapsed the whole "dont count your chickens..." thing except within the last few years.
[04:15:22] <SWPLinux> heh
[04:16:25] <Jymmmm> OT.... When I bought The Thing, when I was looking at it I had the salesman help my pull out the 3rd seat, just so I can see if *I* can sleep in it comfortable when camping - I can =)
[04:17:34] <SWPLinux> heh - always thinking ahead, huh?
[04:18:18] <Jymmmm> Well, the idea was to go camping, and if we found a nice stop for the night, instead of pitching camp, just sleep in the thing for the night and go on the next morning.
[04:18:55] <Jymmmm> Our sleeping bags fit together
[04:19:37] <Jymmmm> so instead of one 30" wide sleeping, zipper them together and you have a 60" wide sleeping bag
[04:19:57] <Jymmmm> My length
[04:20:13] <Jymmmm> err height I mean
[04:20:37] <skunkworks> almost ;) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout1.PNG
[04:20:57] <Jymmmm> I was VERY surprised when we went into Big5 sporting goods and 10 years later they still had the same sleeping bag.
[04:21:16] <Jymmmm> skunkworks whats that for, a driver?
[04:21:30] <skunkworks> breakout board for the pluto board
[04:21:33] <Jymmmm> nm, just read th eurl
[04:21:39] <skunkworks> :)
[04:21:41] <Jymmmm> pluto - no clue.
[04:21:50] <Jymmmm> planet and a dog.
[04:21:59] <skunkworks> not a planet anymore :L
[04:22:03] <Jymmmm> no?
[04:22:05] <SWPLinux> dwarf planet
[04:22:13] <Jymmmm> oh! Uh oh
[04:22:27] <Jymmmm> Ka Boom!
[04:22:40] <skunkworks> it is a small fpga that jepler found and is working on
[04:22:42] <Jymmmm> That's ok, we have a spare now =)
[04:22:52] <Jymmmm> planet that is
[04:23:09] <Jymmmm> cool. Whats this Pluto thing?
[04:24:11] <skunkworks> http://emergent.unpy.net/01165199941
[04:25:47] <SWPLinux> is that 150 mil spacing on the terminal headers?
[04:27:12] <skunkworks> .1?
[04:27:35] <SWPLinux> the pin headers are .1, but screw terminal blocks are usually bigger
[04:28:04] <SWPLinux> .150, .200, or 5mm or thereabouts
[04:28:19] <Jymmmm> ok so whats the common method to use fpga's not connected a pc?
[04:28:22] <SWPLinux> check DigiKey EDSTLZ1969-ND, I think
[04:28:49] <skunkworks> I went by what I have used before - they where .1 spacing
[04:29:03] <skunkworks> wider would be better if I could fit it on the board.
[04:29:43] <SWPLinux> hmm - that's the wrong part number
[04:30:20] <SWPLinux> ah - ED1960-ND
[04:35:18] <skunkworks> need to sleep
[04:35:20] <skunkworks> night
[04:35:27] <Jymmmm> Good Night skunkworks
[04:49:49] <SWPLinux> yay - I found out why my ethernet controller is now eth2 (even though it's the first one on the motherboard)
[04:51:01] <SWPLinux> because Ubuntu has a nice feature where you can persistently assign specific eth ports (via MAC address) to specific interfaces, and the two MACs on my old motherboard are in the file (/etc/iftab, in case anyone else needs to know)
[04:58:48] <Jymmmm> good to know - it always bugs me that eth0 adn eth1 can be switched, eposing your LAn to the inet
[04:58:55] <Jymmmm> a la iptables
[04:59:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:00:12] <Jymmmm> I wasn't aware that you could "lock" em in via the mac address, that's a perfect way to do it.
[05:00:31] <Jymmmm> at least that's something I can control from within iptables.
[05:00:38] <SWPadnos> yep - I didn't know until just now - it was bugging me that vmware couldn't bridge to eth0
[05:00:39] <Jymmmm> or at least check againest.
[05:01:18] <Jymmmm> I always make my "worse" nic the inet, and the best one the LAN. Then I ALWAYS know which is which
[05:01:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - then you can lock it by driver (in /etc/networking)
[05:02:39] <Jymmmm> Mac works better I think. then I dont have to worry about driver bugs.
[05:03:02] <SWPadnos> well, you can alias eth0 ne2000 or whatever, for modprobe
[05:03:17] <SWPadnos> but I think it may still depend on not getting any errors
[05:03:24] <Jymmmm> heh
[05:04:44] <SWPadnos> bummer - it actually takes a few minutes to fsck aa 300G hard drive
[05:04:55] <Jymmmm> Yep =)
[05:05:01] <SWPadnos> (that's filesystem check, not screw up ;) )
[05:05:21] <Jymmmm> try copying 100GB across 100MB/s ouch
[05:05:40] <Jymmmm> 38 minutes
[05:05:50] <Jymmmm> if your lucky
[05:06:09] <SWPadnos> I tried copying 22GB across 2 Mbit DSL - that was not fun
[05:06:31] <SWPadnos> I gave up on the larger images because I realized I didn't have enough hard disk space to hold them
[05:06:42] <SWPadnos> (bluemarble - very cool images)
[05:06:59] <Jymmmm> Yeah, I have them on DVD's
[05:07:13] <Jymmmm> that I burned - took me FOREVER to dl
[05:07:19] <SWPadnos> the big ones are considerably larger than a DVD
[05:07:41] <Jymmmm> Now, if I need to DL anything massive, I jsut bring an ext hdd to work.
[05:07:42] <SWPadnos> in fact, they'd barely fit one per Blu-Ray disc
[05:07:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:08:02] <Jymmmm> You can't do any better than 10GigE
[05:08:10] <SWPadnos> I live at work, so that doesn't work for me (and my old company only has a T1, so DSL is a bit faster :) )
[05:08:29] <SWPadnos> no - 10GigE is pretty close to the commercial limit ;)
[05:08:39] <SWPadnos> can I ge tequipment cheap through you?
[05:08:52] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos That's what we have a work.... 10GigE links
[05:09:08] <Jymmmm> plural
[05:09:20] <SWPadnos> let me know if you guys "upgrade" your IT infrastructure and want to get rid of hte old 10GigE equipment ;)
[05:09:25] <Jymmmm> nah, no equipment - except computers. used.
[05:09:34] <SWPadnos> bummer
[05:09:48] <Jymmmm> lol, just installed more of em
[05:10:07] <Jymmmm> so I seriously doubt they'kk be getting rid of them anytime soon
[05:10:18] <SWPadnos> any old GigE equipment?
[05:10:22] <Jymmmm> lol
[05:10:23] <SWPadnos> it's so slow, after all ;)
[05:10:41] <Jymmmm> See, that was me laughing at you there =)
[05:10:53] <Jymmmm> Cuz you so funnnnnnnnnnnnnny =)
[05:11:06] <SWPadnos> yeah - everyone says that
[05:11:38] <SWPadnos> I actually have one 8-port GigE switch now - even has PoE
[05:11:42] <Jymmmm> But you gotta love dl'ing 800MB in 3.5 minutes =)
[05:11:46] <SWPadnos> (that's why I got it)
[05:11:59] <Jymmmm> PPPoE ?
[05:12:08] <SWPadnos> Power over Ethernet
[05:12:15] <Jymmmm> oh, really!?!?!?!
[05:12:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:12:27] <Jymmmm> how much???
[05:12:31] <SWPadnos> actually, it's only got 2 GigE ports, and 8 PoE 10/100 ports
[05:12:33] <Jymmmm> and who's is it.
[05:12:36] <SWPadnos> $229, I think
[05:12:39] <SWPadnos> LinkSys/Cisco
[05:12:47] <Jymmmm> oh screw 10/100
[05:12:58] <Jymmmm> I want a 8p 10/100/1000
[05:13:07] <Jymmmm> phuk this gig uplink shit
[05:13:13] <SWPadnos> there are plenty of GigE switches on NewEgg in the <$200 range
[05:13:18] <Jymmmm> we got fiber for that =)
[05:13:35] <SWPadnos> this has gbic ports as well
[05:13:41] <SWPadnos> for the two gigE links
[05:13:54] <Jymmmm> Yeah, they all seem to.
[05:14:11] <SWPadnos> and a serial port for the console - I think it's a managed switch
[05:14:16] <SWPadnos> web-managed anyway
[05:14:32] <Jymmmm> nice for vLan'ing
[05:14:49] <SWPadnos> could be - I've never set it up with an IP ;)
[05:15:05] <Jymmmm> Layer 2, not layer 3
[05:15:44] <SWPadnos> har dto talk to it without having an IP though (or connecting up the serial console)
[05:16:24] <Jymmmm> most use the serial cable - baby blue for the ciscos
[05:16:37] <SWPadnos> wow - there's a NetGear 24-port 10/100/1000 switch for $239 - $50 rebate
[05:16:45] <Jymmmm> db9 on one end, rj45 on the oher
[05:17:02] <SWPadnos> err - $229 - $40 rebate (still $189 net)
[05:17:04] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos all ports are gig?
[05:17:08] <SWPadnos> this has a db9 port on it
[05:17:13] <Jymmmm> link?
[05:17:16] <SWPadnos> sec
[05:17:19] <Jymmmm> k
[05:17:32] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833122058
[05:18:03] <SWPadnos> loks like all gigE
[05:18:19] <SWPadnos> I din't see a backplane aggregate speed though
[05:18:34] <Jymmmm> http://www.netgear.com/Products/Switches/UnmanagedSwitches/JGS524.aspx
[05:18:43] <Jymmmm> non-blocking backplane
[05:18:46] <SWPadnos> looking - says "up to 48 Gbps"
[05:19:33] <Jymmmm> unmanaged
[05:20:03] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:20:34] <SWPadnos> I have the NetGear SRW208P, if you feel like looking it up
[05:20:36] <Jymmmm> I could handle that, but really only need 8p
[05:20:58] <Jymmmm> maybe 16p
[05:21:34] <Jymmmm> Eh, room for more ANS devices =)
[05:21:36] <Jymmmm> NAS
[05:21:50] <SWPadnos> yeah - I think I've planned for 12 ports in the house, so adding a couple for (a) burned out ports and (b) extra stuff in the wiring closet, a 16 is about right for me
[05:22:21] <Jymmmm> cross connects
[05:22:35] <SWPadnos> what?
[05:23:01] <Jymmmm> when you are cross connecting to other switches.... garage, shop, neighbor, etc
[05:23:13] <SWPadnos> ah
[05:23:45] <SWPadnos> the switch I have does auto MDI/MDI-X as well, which is nice
[05:24:05] <Jymmmm> Yeah, keeps from havng to crimp em
[05:24:28] <Jymmmm> which we do all the time at work for cabinet drops
[05:24:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:28:18] <Jymmmm> I'll start studying for my CCNA after the first of the year.
[05:29:47] <SWPadnos> sounds - um - fun
[05:30:01] <Jymmmm> Company pays for the study material, and the test (up to 5 times), then you get a raise
[05:30:11] <SWPadnos> I was just reading about the Cisco tests - apparently they're extremely hard
[05:30:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm - any openings?
[05:30:43] <Jymmmm> I think so, but I don't think you would be interested.
[05:30:53] <SWPadnos> though I hear housing is a pain in that area ;)
[05:31:43] <Jymmmm> lets not go there, even kiddingly. At least not until I'm 100% setteled in and all this "stuff" is out for good
[05:32:10] <SWPadnos> heh - no problem
[05:33:37] <Jymmmm> The pay isn't all THAT good, but the environment sorta makes up for it.... you might do maybe 45m of work in 8 hours, and you are free todo any project you want the rest of the time.
[05:34:02] <SWPadnos> that is cool
[05:34:11] <SWPadnos> I have the same deal, though sometimes the pay is $0
[05:34:25] <Jymmmm> lol, yeah, but you have a HAWT secretary.
[05:34:47] <SWPadnos> you've never met my wife :)
[05:35:06] <SWPadnos> (and I don't have a secretary ;) )
[05:35:17] <Jymmmm> Well, in case she was listening =)
[05:35:38] <SWPadnos> oh - thanks. I'll "accidentally" leave a printout of the log on her desk (suitably edited)
[05:36:21] <Jymmmm> lol, there ya go.... points for talking bout the wife in a "HAWY" manner to your friends! That'll get you some points.
[05:37:03] <SWPadnos> she's too sexy for my office, too sexy for my office ...
[05:37:10] <Jymmmm> lol
[05:38:25] <Jymmmm> well, you better get that silk wallpaper installed in the office
[05:38:47] <SWPadnos> and the mirrored ceiling
[05:39:07] <Jymmmm> yep, you got it!
[05:48:20] <SWPadnos> oh well - time for bed. see you later
[05:48:57] <Jymmmm> Good Night Steve
[09:29:30] <anonimasu> hey
[09:29:41] <Jymmmm> yesum
[09:31:35] <anonimasu> im machining \ /
[09:31:37] <anonimasu> things :)
[09:32:25] <anonimasu> fishtails
[09:32:43] <Jymmmm> backslash and forwardslash
[09:32:53] <Jymmmm> (respectively)
[09:33:22] <anonimasu> hehe
[09:35:13] <alex_joni> hi
[09:38:55] <Jymmmm> anyone here use W98/XP ?
[09:39:11] <anonimasu> I do at work
[09:39:28] <Jymmmm> Check out 'CodeBank' http://www.zeraha.org/
[09:39:48] <Jymmmm> It's portable (can run from a USB Flash) and uses AES enxryption
[09:40:04] <anonimasu> what is it?
[09:40:34] <Jymmmm> http://www.snapfiles.com/get/codebank.html
[09:40:40] <Jymmmm> better desc there
[09:40:50] <anonimasu> well, some other time..
[09:40:53] <anonimasu> making parts.. :)
[09:41:12] <anonimasu> not to keen on starting a web browser until it's running
[09:41:50] <Jymmmm> you irc from a production machine?! EEEeeeesh
[09:42:27] <anonimasu> lol
[09:42:28] <anonimasu> nah
[09:42:33] <Jymmmm> liar
[09:42:36] <anonimasu> doing protype stuff right now..
[09:42:41] <anonimasu> lots of manual machining..
[09:42:47] <Jymmmm> Uh Huh,
[09:42:50] <anonimasu> didnt bother to make a cam program as it's a one off yet..
[09:44:29] <anonimasu> :)
[09:45:07] <anonimasu> im pondering building a new spindle
[09:45:08] <anonimasu> :)
[09:51:08] <alex_joni> again?
[09:51:21] <anonimasu> yeah..
[09:51:23] <anonimasu> 10krpm..
[09:51:42] <anonimasu> I have a huydralic motor that'll do that.. ;)
[09:52:12] <anonimasu> or well, I can get one for a good/ok price
[09:55:49] <anonimasu> ^Ä_^
[12:49:06] <nighthawk> Hi to all
[12:49:38] <nighthawk> I'm a mechanical engineer and I'd like to develop some cnc system (I work in the automation are)
[12:49:58] <nighthawk> anyone ever used the mesa 5i20 card?
[13:01:05] <Guest707> Hi
[13:01:17] <^eugenics> Howdy everyone
[13:01:29] <Guest707> It would like to know
[13:01:49] <^eugenics> Just got up my new internet connection :)
[13:01:54] <anonimasu> nice
[13:02:33] <^eugenics> Its over cable, it supposed to be faster, but I dont know yet
[13:02:45] <^eugenics> ana
[13:02:46] <^eugenics> o
[13:02:49] <Guest707> its possibel see the table of ofssets in the interface AXIS?
[13:03:51] <Guest707> its possible see the table of ofssets in the interface AXIS?
[13:04:14] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: hehe grab something big ^_^
[13:04:38] <tempfsfds> first dive of the line :(
[13:05:18] <Guest707> its possible see the table of ofssets in the interface AXIS?
[13:05:35] <anonimasu> Guest707: no here knows that right now
[13:05:46] <anonimasu> Guest707: wait around until somone shows up that knows..
[13:09:25] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:14:16] <jepler> Guest707: no, AXIS does not have a display of all the different offsets.
[13:16:27] <Guest707> I cannot make offset off the tools in axix?
[13:17:08] <jepler> you can set the G54 coordinate offset by using the "Offset" button
[13:17:16] <jepler> and you can set tool lengths by editing the tool table in a text editor
[13:17:47] <Guest707> no graphic interface?
[13:18:04] <jepler> axis does not provide a graphical interface for the tool table
[13:18:14] <Guest707> ok
[13:18:28] <Guest707> in the mini its possible?
[13:18:53] <jepler> I don't know about mini
[13:20:44] <Guest707> sory no in mini..
[13:20:57] <Guest707> in the tkemc its possible?
[13:21:04] <jepler> I don't know about tkemc
[13:21:17] <jepler> just use a text editor, the format of the tool table file is extremely simple
[13:21:38] <Guest707> ok very thanks
[13:21:41] <Guest707> no strees
[13:43:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/limit3.comp: fix another bug in the translation from blocks.c
[13:44:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/limit3.comp: merge 1.4: fix another bug in the translation from blocks.c
[13:45:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/limit3.2/ (expected test.hal): test for just-fixed limit3.comp bug
[13:47:52] <skunkworks> jepler: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout1.PNG
[13:47:57] <skunkworks> attempt 2
[13:48:34] <skunkworks> I could maybe see moving some of the i/o around on the pluto to make it better. But I am not sure yet that I could just make it work that way it is. still playing
[13:52:26] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:53:00] <skunkworks> anonimasu: how is the mill?
[13:54:48] <skunkworks> jepler: saved the images as png's just for you ;)
[13:55:46] <anonimasu> skunkworks: mine?
[13:55:53] <anonimasu> skunkworks: doing well :)
[13:56:13] <anonimasu> pondering if I should install the plc there soon
[13:56:15] <skunkworks> anonimasu: Good to hear
[13:56:39] <skunkworks> why not use emc's classic ladder with a nice I/O board?
[13:56:48] <anonimasu> skunkworks: because cl sucks.
[13:56:56] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:57:04] <skunkworks> I think they ported the latest version into emc2
[13:57:17] <anonimasu> yeah, but it's still ladder..
[13:57:20] <anonimasu> :D
[13:57:24] <skunkworks> or does the latest version still suck
[13:57:24] <skunkworks> ah
[13:57:36] <anonimasu> and I have a real plc..
[13:57:45] <anonimasu> with keypad and stuff..
[13:57:51] <skunkworks> ah
[13:58:04] <anonimasu> that i'll use as interface..
[13:58:09] <anonimasu> also :)
[13:58:36] <skunkworks> omron? square D?
[13:58:41] <anonimasu> no
[13:58:43] <anonimasu> sigmatek
[13:59:02] <anonimasu> http://www.sigmatek.at/
[13:59:07] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is only farmiliar with ones that they use at work her
[13:59:08] <skunkworks> here
[13:59:16] <anonimasu> IEC 61131-3 (called lasal)
[14:00:17] <anonimasu> though they are expensive
[14:04:48] <anonimasu> :
[14:04:49] <anonimasu> :)
[14:05:17] <jepler> skunkworks: that's not bad .. you can make it single-sided with just a few jumper wires
[14:05:27] <anonimasu> skunkworks: I've got so much realtime stuff that doing it in ladder would be impossible..
[14:07:30] <skunkworks> jepler: yes.
[14:07:59] <jepler> anonimasu: how do you program this PLC? Does it have some kind of text programming language or what?
[14:08:18] <anonimasu> jepler: yeah
[14:08:28] <anonimasu> object oriented..
[14:08:56] <jepler> anonimasu: is that a standard language or one that is specific to the sigmatek plc?
[14:09:25] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[14:09:31] <anonimasu> it's probably specific
[14:09:54] <anonimasu> though IEC61131-3 is a standard..
[14:10:06] <skunkworks> They still do everything here in rungs
[14:10:11] <anonimasu> http://www.searcheng.co.uk/selection/control/Articles/IEC61131/main.htm
[14:10:19] <anonimasu> yeah it's a standard..
[14:10:25] <anonimasu> ouch..
[14:10:25] <jepler> interesting
[14:10:37] <anonimasu> theese things have great debug capability.. and do multitasking and stuff
[14:11:15] <anonimasu> structured text is what they are programmed in..
[14:11:45] <jepler> looks a bit like pascal or something
[14:11:50] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[14:12:07] <jepler> oh, the page you pasted says that itself
[14:12:29] <skunkworks> jepler: still have not received a cd yet from futurtec
[14:12:40] <anonimasu> jepler: can you see why I dont like ladder that much?
[14:12:42] <jepler> anonimasu: you can write "C" and in emc2.1 "comp" to expand the logic inside the PC
[14:12:59] <jepler> anonimasu: I don't blame you -- I am not a ladder evangelist either
[14:13:16] <anonimasu> jepler: on the plc's you create objects with methods..
[14:13:27] <anonimasu> and you have i/o for each object..
[14:13:42] <anonimasu> rungs if you like.. if you want to trigger them from something else..
[14:14:03] <anonimasu> like have your I/O manager monitor ports for stuff..
[14:14:23] <anonimasu> then leave the other things on the plc on a lower priority to save cycles..
[14:15:23] <anonimasu> *rant*
[14:15:40] <jepler> it sounds powerful
[14:15:48] <jepler> I assume it costs a pile of dough to get a copy of the standard
[14:16:14] <anonimasu> hm.. I havent seen the standard really..
[14:16:29] <jepler> offs -- they've made a new version that is XML, according to wikipedia
[14:16:36] <anonimasu> http://plcopen.org/
[14:17:01] <jepler> is there nothing that somebody won't fuck up by adding xml to it?
[14:17:06] <anonimasu> argh
[14:17:07] <skunkworks> anonimasu: how much does the programming enviroment cost?
[14:17:13] <anonimasu> skunkworks: nothing
[14:17:17] <skunkworks> wow
[14:17:25] <anonimasu> though you need to buy hardware.. ;)
[14:17:51] <anonimasu> before they give it to you..
[14:17:58] <anonimasu> but it's free..
[14:17:59] <skunkworks> right - but I know they have spent a pretty penny for the development software for our plc''s
[14:18:18] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[14:18:24] <anonimasu> they have excelent support also
[14:19:00] <anonimasu> the only thing that took time was when atmel fucked up a batch of memory chips and refused to say they did :D
[14:19:25] <skunkworks> and they are probably using ver 1.01 or something like that :) - I know one is still in dos :o
[14:19:31] <anonimasu> heh
[14:19:42] <anonimasu> I usually refer to thoose things as "fan controllers"
[14:20:42] <anonimasu> skunkworks: my main hurdle was getting serial data from the pc to the plc before :9
[14:20:44] <skunkworks> what have you used these plc's for?
[14:20:53] <anonimasu> pm
[14:21:08] <anonimasu> well, in the machines we build at work..
[14:21:37] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout1.PNG
[14:21:46] <skunkworks> sorry - wrong past
[14:21:51] <skunkworks> paste
[14:22:33] <anonimasu> we build thees things for making holes in the ground
[14:22:37] <anonimasu> for planting trees
[14:22:46] <skunkworks> cool
[14:22:55] <jepler> skunkworks: what would you change about the pinout? something for your own convenience, or something you think would benefit most people using it?
[14:23:17] <anonimasu> skunkworks: eveything's proportional to the speed of the machine it mounts on
[14:24:25] <anonimasu> with feedback loops and such..
[14:24:46] <anonimasu> :)
[14:27:00] <skunkworks> off the top of my head - I would have the extra input pin (0) on the left side of the 26 pin header (so the 10 pin header can be in the same area easy) Also put the extra output (0) next to on the right side of the 26 pin header for the same reason. If that makes sense
[14:27:47] <jepler> skunkworks: hm that makes sense
[14:31:08] <jepler> I end up moving a bunch of pins by the time I fix that ..
[14:31:59] <skunkworks> ? I don't know the internal workings of the fpga - not an easy move?
[14:33:33] <jepler> no, it's me modifying the HTML table and you modifying your eagle board that will take the bulk of the time
[14:34:10] <skunkworks> Don't worry about me. :)
[14:43:29] <jepler> check the new pinout and see if you can find any errors
[14:47:34] <skunkworks> jepler: looks good - will play with it tongiht. I think that change may make it so it will all be on one layer. (my hope anyway with a bit of shuffling)
[14:55:48] <Guest735> hello everybody
[14:56:03] <Guest735> Bonjour Alex
[14:56:55] <Guest735> oh it's not time for you... bye
[15:22:38] <Guest308> hello everybody
[15:22:50] <Guest308> Bonjour Alex ?
[16:02:33] <Guest979> hi everybody
[16:04:50] <SWPadnos> Bonjour Didier, comment ça va?
[16:06:15] <Guest979> ca va, et vous ?
[16:06:30] <SWPadnos> je vais bien
[16:06:38] <Guest979> français ?
[16:06:46] <SWPadnos> non
[16:07:07] <Guest979> vous écrivez bien, pourtant
[16:07:20] <SWPadnos> danke sehr
[16:07:22] <SWPadnos> oops ;)
[16:07:26] <SWPadnos> merci
[16:07:34] <Guest979> of nothing :)
[16:07:59] <Guest979> i have all the time one question...
[16:07:59] <SWPadnos> I live 30 miles south of Quebec, so I too french in high school (20+ years ago)
[16:08:02] <SWPadnos> shoot
[16:08:17] <SWPadnos> s/too/took/
[16:08:26] <Guest979> je peux poser la question en français alors ?
[16:08:38] <SWPadnos> go for it, but I probably won't understand ;)
[16:09:28] <Guest979> j'ai un sprintf(buf,"%f",15.0) qui me retourne %f ?
[16:10:05] <SWPadnos> %f should end up as 1.500E+01 or something like that
[16:10:25] <Guest979> je précise dans un hal component -> write_port
[16:11:02] <SWPadnos> you're trying to write the float to serial in ASCII?
[16:11:12] <Guest979> yesss
[16:11:28] <skunkworks> Nice work SWPadnos :)
[16:11:49] <anonimasu> hm..
[16:12:08] <anonimasu> wouldnt you use ftoa
[16:12:17] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, if you have it
[16:12:23] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: yeah
[16:12:57] <Guest979> ftoa isn't available ?
[16:13:25] <Guest979> :(
[16:13:25] <SWPadnos> I'd use snprintf, for one thing - that prevents buffer overflow: snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf)-1, "%f", number)
[16:13:38] <SWPadnos> try it - if it links, then you have it ;)
[16:13:58] <Guest979> i will try snprintf, now
[16:15:01] <SWPadnos> if you want to format the number, then you can do something like "%8.4f" to get an 8 character field with 4 decimals of precision " 15.0000"
[16:16:23] <Guest979> snprintf(..."%f") gives %f
[16:16:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm - kernel mode printf probably doesn't have floating point support
[16:17:31] <Guest979> there is another function in kernel
[16:21:54] <Guest979> ftoa is unknow...
[16:22:05] <Guest979> :(
[16:22:11] <anonimasu> cant you skip the decimal?
[16:22:14] <anonimasu> *100 or something
[16:22:18] <anonimasu> then add it again?
[16:22:26] <anonimasu> 13242D4
[16:22:33] <anonimasu> 1324.5
[16:22:55] <Guest979> it's to say special protocol , may be
[16:23:14] <jepler> %f is not supported by any printf-family function when you are writing a realtime component
[16:23:33] <Guest979> thanks jepler
[16:23:35] <anonimasu> I were assuming you are designing your protocol :9
[16:23:43] <Guest979> yes
[16:24:09] <anonimasu> nice
[16:24:40] <anonimasu> in my protocol I use a fixed decimal point and pass all data as integers
[16:25:07] <Guest979> i will try
[16:25:31] <anonimasu> and I add the decimal after I've passed the data around/divided/done stuff to it..
[16:25:43] <anonimasu> to avoid floating point operations also :)
[16:26:21] <Guest979> i have made something like this in the past...
[16:26:24] <cradek> if you do that, a binary protocol is pretty easy too (to greatly cut down the number of bytes sent)
[16:26:51] <Guest979> binary protocol ?
[16:26:56] <SWPadnos> yep - wither multiply by a large number to shift decimals to the left ot hte DP, or use fixed point, and send the integer part and the fraction as two distinct pieces
[16:27:03] <SWPadnos> s/wither/either/
[16:27:14] <cradek> sure: use the high bit as "packet sync" and then use 7 bits of the remaining bytes for the data
[16:27:46] <SWPadnos> just send the 4 bytes of the float as binary - as long as the target also uses IEEE-754 32-bit floats, it'll "just work" (subject to endian-ness)
[16:28:04] <cradek> SWPadnos: eeeee
[16:28:25] <SWPadnos> (assuming you have a way of syncing packets)
[16:28:35] <cradek> but yeah if you NEED floats, swp's idea is way better than trying to use ascii
[16:28:56] <cradek> ascii representation of numbers is only for humans
[16:29:05] <Guest979> yes
[16:29:07] <SWPadnos> just think of linking two PCs with a serial port, and having HAL span the two
[16:29:15] <anonimasu> yep
[16:29:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is doing ascii :/
[16:30:40] <SWPadnos> ASCII is very useful on serial protocols, because you can use a serial monitor program and actually understand what's happening
[16:30:46] <cradek> the FP representation is an approximation of the number you want - ascii is another approximation of that
[16:30:54] <SWPadnos> everything else about it pretty much sucks though ;)
[16:31:20] <jepler> if you have a requirement to use ASCII with a decimal point, then this may work for you (but it's only tested the slightest bit): http://pastebin.ca/271964
[16:31:23] <Guest979> yes ascii is easy to read in the second pc
[16:31:25] <cradek> it's also more 'discoverable' for reverse-engineers
[16:32:24] <Guest979> then rt_spwrite(COM1,&float,4) is possible ?
[16:32:55] <SWPadnos> should be fine
[16:32:55] <jepler> don't know what rt_spwrite is
[16:33:14] <SWPadnos> assuming that spwrite takes a void pointer and a count, and writes those bytes to the serial port
[16:33:14] <Guest979> send on serial line
[16:33:45] <jepler> just as for integers, the order of the bytes within the float is CPU-dependent
[16:33:53] <SWPadnos> I'd do rt_spwrite (COM1, &float, sizeof(float)) though
[16:34:08] <Guest979> yes, rt_spwrite(COM1,(char *)&float,4) is better
[16:34:27] <SWPadnos> the sizeof was the important change ;)
[16:34:30] <cradek> jepler: is htonl the right fix for that?
[16:35:07] <cradek> or if you have 8 byte floats is two calls to htonl still wrong?
[16:35:29] <SWPadnos> you're thinking of the "network byte ordering" functions?
[16:35:40] <cradek> yes
[16:35:58] <jepler> cradek: that's right for 4-byte IEEE754 floats
[16:35:58] <SWPadnos> I think two calls for an 8-byte number is wrong, because you don't know which order to send the results
[16:36:06] <Guest979> oh, my question ask everybody ?
[16:36:09] <cradek> I'd still used fixed point, then this is all well defined
[16:36:19] <SWPadnos> no, it's still endian-specific
[16:36:26] <SWPadnos> er - nevermind
[16:36:45] <jepler> I'm a bit surprised there's not an "htonll" by now
[16:36:51] <cradek> SWPadnos: assuming ?to?l
[16:36:57] <SWPadnos> right
[16:38:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm - if (i==htonl(i)) {same order} else {swap high and low 32-bit ints}
[16:38:55] <jepler> http://gnunet.org/doxygen/html/checksum_8c-source.html#l00121
[16:39:58] <cradek> looks like what swp wrote
[16:40:04] <jepler> yep
[16:40:27] <SWPadnos> except that it uses a preprocessor constant for the endian-ness check
[16:40:34] <cradek> except he would have used & instead of +
[16:40:40] <cradek> or | even
[16:40:55] <cradek> * cradek coughs
[16:41:15] <cradek> (maybe he would have used & the first time - who knows)
[16:41:21] <SWPadnos> I sometimes use mathematical symbols instead of logic ones
[16:41:29] <SWPadnos> well, maybe not too often
[16:43:02] <SWPadnos> I wonder how well gcc would optimize my code snippet - htonl is a preprocessor macro, and in the case where the CPU already uses network byte order, that would collapse to if (i==i)
[16:43:27] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure the compiler would take another pass and only emit code for the true case
[16:43:52] <jepler> If it can see all the code (because it's a macro or an inline) I bet it will
[16:44:33] <SWPadnos> I think it is a macro, because making the decision at run-time would be pretty deadly performance-wise
[16:45:01] <SWPadnos> and what you need to do is known for a given processor at compile-time
[16:45:05] <Guest979> rt_spwrite(COM1,(char *)port->data_out,sizeof(hal_float_t)) send nothing
[16:45:13] <Guest979> or may be i see nothing...
[16:45:37] <SWPadnos> do you have to flush any buffers to get data out?
[16:45:45] <jepler> if data_out's value is 0.0, then the bytes sent will all be \0 (NUL)
[16:46:13] <Guest979> i need to write an application to read
[16:46:15] <SWPadnos> do you need parens around port->data_out?
[16:46:29] <SWPadnos> (char *)(port->data_out)
[16:46:42] <jepler> nah -- if that was the problem you'd get a compile-time error
[16:46:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no - that would be a compiler error if you did
[16:46:53] <SWPadnos> right
[16:47:16] <Guest979> i try
[16:47:53] <Guest979> no i think i send nul
[16:48:02] <jepler> if data_out's value is 0.0, then the bytes sent will all be \0 (NUL)
[16:48:20] <SWPadnos> you should also make sure that you can get anything out the port - send the string "word" or something, to be sure your test setup is working
[16:48:28] <Guest979> i have moved the axis, and i see something
[16:48:47] <Guest979> i need a reader
[16:48:53] <SWPadnos> ah - right, rt_spwrite will stop at the first NUL character if it's expecting a string
[16:49:01] <jepler> SWPadnos: surely it doesn't -- it takes a size, after all
[16:49:14] <SWPadnos> I agree
[16:49:29] <SWPadnos> though you have a point that printing the result on the other end would stop short
[16:50:43] <Guest979> i will write a simple c code to read serial line.
[16:50:57] <Guest979> and see the result.
[16:51:26] <Guest979> i need to write it under rtai ?
[16:51:54] <SWPadnos> not really - you could use something like minicom on the other end
[16:52:09] <SWPadnos> though it won't display NULs
[16:52:38] <jepler> it won't interpret groups of 4 bytes as floating-point numbers, either
[16:52:42] <SWPadnos> there's probably a free serial debugger that shows all characters in hex (and if there isn't, that should be pretty easy to write)
[16:52:50] <SWPadnos> no - definitely not ;)
[16:52:58] <Guest979> yes :)
[16:53:20] <Guest979> i have an example of rtai serial code
[16:53:38] <Guest979> with shared memory :)
[16:54:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.rolf-schroedter.de/moni/
[16:56:01] <Guest979> well
[16:57:13] <Guest979> it's a free hexadecimal serial monitor, isn't
[16:57:24] <SWPadnos> hex or ASCII, yes
[16:57:30] <Guest979> thanks
[16:57:40] <Guest979> ':)
[16:57:44] <Guest979> :')
[16:57:48] <SWPadnos> it doesn't do teo ports or timestamping, which is highly desirable for two-way debugging
[16:57:50] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:57:51] <jepler> wow -- I never knew anybody who could call bwidgets "fantastic" with a straight face
[16:57:55] <SWPadnos> s/teo/two/
[16:58:05] <SWPadnos> we don't know that he had a straight face ;)
[16:59:53] <jepler> I'd say things like: the fantastic bwidgets package takes only minutes to display a list containing 10,000 items
[17:00:08] <anonimasu> lol
[17:00:21] <SWPadnos> on a 3.4GHz dual-dual core system with 17 GB RAM
[17:00:33] <SWPadnos> and a mouse
[17:00:44] <jepler> and quad SLI graphics
[17:01:02] <SWPadnos> plus Nvidia RenderWhatever-it-was-called
[17:01:10] <Guest979> i don't understand all, it's a joke ?
[17:01:12] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:01:27] <jepler> the bwidget ListBox really is terrible, including performace as bad as I mention above
[17:01:28] <anonimasu> ^_^
[17:01:43] <anonimasu> jepler: I figure 10k items should just take a few secs
[17:01:55] <jepler> here's the kicker: it'll take even longer to destroy the widget when you're through
[17:02:14] <anonimasu> lol
[17:02:15] <SWPadnos> garbage collection after the destruction of each element, anyone?
[17:02:51] <anonimasu> maybe Ishould try my .net app with 10k stuff.. grabbed from pgsql
[17:03:08] <SWPadnos> you should try your .net app with a hole in the head
[17:03:12] <jepler> here's a proprietary trade secret from unnamed commercial product's bug database:
[17:03:13] <jepler> """In the boston job, there are 15442 members. when I use the select all button
[17:03:14] <jepler> it takes approx. 5 minutes to get all the items selected."""
[17:03:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[17:03:15] <SWPadnos> oops - err, yeah, try that
[17:03:18] <anonimasu> it would be a funny thing..
[17:03:30] <jepler> (that's due to the bad performance of bwidgets)
[17:04:12] <SWPadnos> well, come on. 15442 is very close to half the positive storage capacity of a 16-bit int
[17:04:56] <jepler> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=362997&aid=1493144&group_id=12997
[17:05:08] <jepler> anyway -- sorry for hijacking this conversation
[17:05:30] <jepler> I have a burning hatred for bwidgets and tcl/tk, that's all
[17:06:06] <SWPadnos> hmmm - bwidget, tcl/tk, C++. is there anything else we should know about?
[17:06:21] <SWPadnos> oh - recursive make
[17:07:25] <anonimasu> hm, adding 32000 things to a listbox takes about 2 secs..
[17:08:02] <anonimasu> 320000takes a while longer
[17:08:24] <cradek> if it's only 10x longer, you win
[17:08:35] <anonimasu> lol
[17:08:37] <anonimasu> im not after winning
[17:08:42] <anonimasu> done..
[17:09:03] <anonimasu> took about a minute at most
[17:09:04] <SWPadnos> actually, even the c malloc() suffers when you do tens of thousands ofthem
[17:09:19] <anonimasu> im kind of amazed it's m$ crap nevertheless
[17:09:27] <Guest979> thanks a lot for your help, again
[17:09:35] <SWPadnos> there are commercial packages that replace malloc with versions optimized for particular patterns
[17:09:40] <jepler> there are some things you have a right to expect are O(1) -- allocating a chunk of memory, adding one item to a listbox, ...
[17:09:43] <Guest979> i will continue alone
[17:09:45] <anonimasu> this is on a 1.0ghz with 510mb ram..
[17:09:49] <SWPadnos> have fun Didier
[17:09:51] <Guest979> bye :)
[17:10:04] <Guest979> talk you later, bye bye
[17:10:13] <SWPadnos> jepler, yep - one would expect that, though it's unfortunately not true a lot of the time
[17:10:47] <SWPadnos> for a listbox, O(logN) is acceptable, since they're often sorted
[17:14:06] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[17:14:58] <SWPadnos> if only there were a version of Microtap for Linux
[17:15:42] <anonimasu> microtap
[17:15:44] <anonimasu> ?
[17:16:01] <SWPadnos> I wonder how well it would work on dosemu - it's DOS software
[17:16:08] <anonimasu> hm
[17:16:08] <SWPadnos> http://www.paladinsoftware.com/
[17:16:11] <anonimasu> if you are lucky
[17:16:24] <SWPadnos> it's a teo-line serial monitor with microsecond-accuracy timestamps
[17:16:28] <SWPadnos> s/teo/two/
[17:22:27] <SWPadnos> holy crap: http://www.enginehistory.org/merlin_xx.htm
[17:23:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh noes
[17:30:43] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[17:57:10] <billy_kid> hi
[17:58:07] <jepler> hello billy_kid
[17:58:22] <billy_kid> hello jepler
[17:59:59] <billy_kid> emconf 1.0 works on emc2?
[18:00:51] <SWPadnos> are you talking about the enhanced machine controller, or EMC data storage/backup?
[18:01:14] <billy_kid> enhanced machine controller
[18:01:23] <SWPadnos> ok - good :)
[18:01:28] <jepler> I think he means this program: http://cooltool.he.fdread.org/cncforum/viewtopic.php?t=14&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=d54867d9844bfa0d8c6cbea7662b54aa
[18:01:29] <billy_kid> :-)
[18:01:29] <SWPadnos> I haven't heard of emconf
[18:01:33] <jepler> I've never heard of this program before now
[18:02:07] <billy_kid> graphic config
[18:02:30] <SWPadnos> ok - I think cncuser or somebody like that was working on it. I'm not sure it was ever finished
[18:03:06] <jepler> cooltool used an early version of emc2, so it may work, or it may not
[18:03:49] <billy_kid> i edit emc.ini
[18:04:01] <jepler> I don't see any links to the source code for this program, so I have no idea how it works
[18:04:23] <billy_kid> script python
[18:05:29] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-03-12.txt - 19:27:53
[18:06:32] <jepler> hm sounds like it probably isn't up to date for emc2
[18:08:29] <SWPadnos> http://people.freenet.de/LinuxCNC/files/emcconf.1.0.0a.tar
[18:59:49] <anonimasu> hello
[20:54:41] <ve7it> ve7it is now known as LawrenceG
[21:05:44] <eholmgren> omghi2u2
[21:07:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> * Lerneaen_Hydra_ was not expecting to read that in #emc
[21:33:30] <skunkworks> jepler: close. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout3.PNG
[21:34:28] <skunkworks> I guess routing it by hand is just better.
[21:34:29] <SWPadnos> that looks way better
[21:34:46] <skunkworks> I am not an artist ;)
[21:35:06] <A-L-P-H-A> Anyone interested in a 60gig or 80gig ipod? asking $350CDN and $410CDN, respectively.
[21:35:14] <SWPadnos> when I looked at eagle (Pro, for purchase), the autorouter took forever to do essentially nothing, which definitely negatively impacted my impression of the program
[21:35:49] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: how many layers?
[21:36:10] <skunkworks> even with ths little circuit - it make me thin WTF when it routes the traces.
[21:36:23] <SWPadnos> I just placed a header and an IC, and had a bunch of connections between them - I don't remember the specifics though
[21:36:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I've had a decent experience with eagle... it's not bad...
[21:37:45] <SWPadnos> the profesisonal is the only version that would work for everything I need, and for $1200 total, it's not a great deal (from what I saw)
[21:38:00] <SWPadnos> it does run on Linux, which was abig bonus though
[21:38:10] <SWPadnos> but not enough for me to buy it
[21:39:08] <skunkworks> it is a great progarm for free and I would like to buy enough of it to make bigger boards at some point I think
[21:39:13] <A-L-P-H-A> aaaaaaaaaaaaaarg me matey, it.
[21:39:36] <skunkworks> (not more than 2 sided most likely
[21:39:37] <skunkworks> )
[21:39:42] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, not for professional use (or for private use, in my house :) )
[21:42:23] <jepler> skunkworks: do you plan to have 3 ribbon cables?
[21:44:51] <jepler> skunkworks: if you desoldered the 10-pin connector, you could solder 3 connectors to the bottom of the pluto-p, and then design a breakout board it plugs into without any extra cables
[21:44:58] <SWPadnos> jepler, where was that documentation on your pluto config?
[21:45:07] <jepler> SWPadnos: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pluto_servo.html
[21:45:10] <SWPadnos> thanks
[21:46:54] <SWPadnos> you can route out the shape of the programming connector, and just mount the breakout board on the top of the pluto
[21:47:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> random question: how long do the carbide endmills for PCD work last?
[21:47:46] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: cradek's last until I screw up and break one with bad g-code or a manual jog
[21:48:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> you mean manual jog in Z-?
[21:48:14] <jepler> something like that
[21:48:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> so other than that they last long enough not to be an issue?
[21:48:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> what about the drills?
[21:48:50] <SWPadnos> I'd bet the lifetime is proportional to the number of boards you route per day ...
[21:48:58] <cradek> the V tools last for several/many PCBs, the drills seem to work a very long time
[21:49:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> cradek: so they do wear out after a while?
[21:49:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> how much do they cost?
[21:50:06] <SWPadnos> that's funny - I just notices that they're programming the pluto-P board with the JTAG from a Spartan development kit
[21:50:21] <cradek> yes they get dull and cut less well after a while
[21:50:24] <SWPadnos> (in the photo on the FPGA4fun site)
[21:50:25] <cradek> they are about $7 each
[21:50:27] <cradek> iirc
[21:50:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh, not bad
[21:50:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> probably around $15 in sweden though
[21:51:43] <jepler> SWPadnos: I think that image is supposed to show pluto-P being used to jtag the other board
[21:51:46] <cradek> like jepler said, I think I've broken more than I've dulled
[21:52:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[21:52:27] <SWPadnos> jepler, ah ok - you're right. oh well, not so funny any more
[21:57:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> btw, jepler how's image-to-gcode progressing?
[22:01:29] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: haven't touched it in months
[22:01:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: ok ;)
[22:05:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> 'night all
[22:06:06] <SWPadnos> see you LH
[22:11:16] <skunkworks> Jepler: I might make that a possiblity (My though also was mounting the breakout board on top of the pluto. (de soldering the header off the pluto would be a pita) (for me anyways). my though was just mounting everthing on the back of the board - so the traces would be on the _top_ of the board.
[22:12:23] <skunkworks> just right now - I have cables that will work (the ones I made) and I bought enough header pins to put on the breakout board also.
[22:14:06] <robin_sz> ooh my eye is sore ... should have worn a mask :(
[22:15:23] <robin_sz> got a bit of grit in it and they had to dig it out with a needle .. painless at the time, but hurts afterwards
[22:15:42] <skunkworks> ouch
[22:15:57] <eholmgren> yikes
[22:17:37] <skunkworks> jepler: so in effect the pluto board would be upside down on the breakout board
[22:23:59] <robin_sz> remind me never, ever to do that ever again
[22:24:30] <robin_sz> one of the most stoooopid things ive done
[22:28:07] <skunkworks> robin_sz: how often are there tornados in the uk?
[22:28:37] <skunkworks> * skunkworks saw that there was one north of london recently
[22:58:18] <alex_joni> http://www.msfirefox.com/download-microsoft-firefox.html
[23:01:36] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pluto-breakout.png
[23:01:51] <jepler> here's my try at a breakout board for the pluto with servo firmware
[23:02:05] <jepler> I should make the "OUTx" into 2x2 connectors too, so that they fit on one edge
[23:02:41] <jepler> * jepler wanders off
[23:02:47] <jepler> it's 5PM, the worst time to drive home...
[23:02:54] <jepler> oh well
[23:03:14] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pluto-breakout.png
[23:03:17] <jepler> here's my try at a breakout board for the pluto with servo firmware
[23:03:19] <jepler> I should make the "OUTx" into 2x2 connectors too, so that they fit on one edge
[23:04:07] <skunkworks> Nice
[23:06:12] <skunkworks> it is nice having a quick way to make circuit board. with no acid :)
[23:06:32] <jepler> you mean eagle? or cnc?
[23:06:47] <skunkworks> both
[23:06:52] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pluto-breakout-sch.png
[23:08:19] <skunkworks> definatly a not neater :)
[23:09:11] <jepler> not neater?
[23:09:36] <skunkworks> sorry let me try again. A lot neater
[23:09:57] <alex_joni> heh
[23:10:02] <robin_sz> skunkworks, not often .. apparently around 80 a year ..
[23:10:09] <robin_sz> but these are tornadoes
[23:10:21] <robin_sz> not T O R N A D O E S
[23:10:43] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/breakout.JPG
[23:11:13] <skunkworks> I like these screw connectors - need to find a similar source other than radio crap. they are .1" on center
[23:11:14] <robin_sz> * robin_sz doubts a milled board could be neater than a etched board
[23:11:44] <skunkworks> robin_sz: those are fighting words. ;) depends on how fine.
[23:12:22] <jepler> neater than home-etched or professionally-etched?
[23:12:37] <robin_sz> I can make nice neat etched boards with no mess, thst look easily as good as pro boards
[23:12:49] <skunkworks> with those think/tinker bits - .007 isolations seem to be possible.
[23:13:02] <alex_joni> skunkworks: is that milled or etched?
[23:13:21] <alex_joni> j/k
[23:13:31] <skunkworks> ok - I was wondering ;)
[23:14:09] <skunkworks> I don't consider acid - 'no mess'
[23:14:12] <skunkworks> but I have done both
[23:15:15] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, those are on 0.2" centers
[23:15:23] <skunkworks> really?
[23:15:29] <SWPadnos> count the holes
[23:15:32] <skunkworks> I would have to look
[23:15:38] <skunkworks> oops.
[23:15:42] <jepler> 2 DIP pins for each screw
[23:15:53] <SWPadnos> have I mentioned the EDSTLZ line at DigiKey lately? ;)
[23:16:01] <jepler> I have gotten some nice .1" screw terminals from mouser
[23:16:08] <skunkworks> crap - I need to redo that board then - thanks - that would have been embarasing
[23:16:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:16:29] <skunkworks> some time I am a little absant minded - just a little ;)
[23:16:33] <SWPadnos> there are 0.150" spaceing terminal strips as well - the ones I used on my MPG
[23:16:47] <SWPadnos> http://www.cncgear.com/MPG/ for crappy photos
[23:17:08] <SWPadnos> they have removable headers - the direct screw type is less expensive
[23:17:41] <skunkworks> nice
[23:18:16] <skunkworks> that will actually be better - I can then fit traces between the pads easier.
[23:18:50] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:20:10] <SWPadnos> the 2-pin headers with 0.150 spacing are ED1934-ND, the pluggable blocks are ED1960-ND
[23:20:21] <SWPadnos> 1935 and 1961 for 3 pins
[23:20:24] <skunkworks> jepler: did cradek get the plutos yet?
[23:20:30] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: thanks
[23:20:35] <robin_sz> and another thing ...
[23:20:48] <jepler> the 2.54mm ones on this page: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/628/1243.pdf
[23:20:48] <robin_sz> never try and give yourself a haircut without using a mirror
[23:20:54] <jepler> skunkworks: yes but I haven't gotten mine from him yet
[23:21:03] <SWPadnos> dinnertime - bbl
[23:21:11] <jepler> alright, I'm really going this time. rush hour in lincoln is over
[23:22:37] <skunkworks> bbl
[23:24:14] <robin_sz> hmmm ... my hair now looks rather silly
[23:44:23] <Jymmmm> Lincoln has a WHOLE hour of rush?
[23:45:02] <jepler> Jymmmm: I exaggerate a bit -- but it seems like nobody around here has a clue how to improve the roads
[23:45:28] <jepler> for instance, 2 of the bigger intersections on my way home from work had about 3 months work done on them this summer
[23:45:31] <Jymmmm> jepler are the roads paved or just lots and lots of pea gravel?
[23:45:33] <jepler> ... but they still back up just as much around 8AM and 5PM
[23:45:39] <jepler> paved roads you jerk
[23:45:41] <jepler> :-{
[23:45:49] <Jymmmm> hey, it's a legit question.
[23:45:59] <jepler> I figured you were giving me a hard time
[23:46:05] <jepler> we also have cable TV here
[23:46:11] <jepler> and indoor toilets with water
[23:46:27] <Jymmmm> Here we have "Rush hour" from 5am to 9am then again from 3pm to 7pm
[23:46:31] <alex_joni> whoa, that much luxury
[23:46:36] <alex_joni> ;-)
[23:46:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/tests/limit3.2/expected: use expected results from the old 'blocks' version of limit3
[23:47:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/limit3.comp: makes limit3.comp pass test limit3.2
[23:47:20] <Jymmmm> Many smaller places have dirt roads... you can be traveling down this dirt road and all of a sudden you'll see a street sign.
[23:47:47] <Jymmmm> it's even on the maps and everything.
[23:48:11] <Jymmmm> The road just floods out in the winter time, so they don't pave it.
[23:49:54] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/limit3.comp: merge rev 1.5: makes limit3.comp pass test limit3.2
[23:49:57] <jepler> floods, huh?
[23:49:59] <jepler> that's not like around here
[23:50:14] <Jymmmm> This is the High Desert area of SoCal
[23:54:11] <Jymmmm> It's snow there?
[23:54:52] <jepler> we get snow every winter
[23:55:00] <jepler> usually melts in a week or so though
[23:55:01] <Jymmmm> how deep on avg?
[23:55:12] <Jymmmm> ah, ok
[23:56:13] <Jymmmm> Yeah, desert is tricky... even though it's completely dry, it can't absorb the heavy rains.
[23:56:49] <Jymmmm> If you have a tow truck, you can make LOTS of money in the winter time just pulling cars out of flooded areas.
[23:57:12] <Jymmmm> or a good sized 4x4 and a winch
[23:57:25] <jepler> I'll stick to snow, thanks
[23:58:33] <Jymmmm> ppl are just stupid... they think they can make it thru but dont realize how deep or how strong the waterflow is
[23:59:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[23:59:52] <alex_joni> night all