#emc | Logs for 2006-11-28

[00:17:33] <SWPadnos> ok, now that is weird
[00:18:09] <skunkworks> doen't look like it is being cooperative.
[00:18:49] <SWPadnos> well, it wouldn't run "normally", but when I executed the script as "perl -w the_script", it worked (even though it gave me a warning)
[00:19:15] <skunkworks> * skunkworks just acts like he knows what your taking about
[00:19:33] <SWPadnos> the same warning that it had given me before, when run from the script Alex pointed out, but which didn't work
[00:19:42] <SWPadnos> I don't know what I'm talking about - that'e the frustrating part ;)
[00:29:57] <SWPadnos> logger_emc, bookmark
[00:29:57] <SWPadnos> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-11-28.txt
[00:32:50] <Guest387> Hello Can someone help me with compiling ems2 head?
[00:33:28] <Rugludallur> Hey Guest, same as before ?
[00:34:44] <Guest387> yes same!
[00:35:42] <Guest387> when I compile dir
[00:35:51] <Guest387> oops
[00:35:53] <Guest387> hold on
[00:37:58] <Guest387> when I compile it checks for cc version-finds gcc in rtai-config
[00:38:21] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[00:38:27] <Guest387> then checks for gcc and egcs-finds neither
[00:38:52] <Guest387> says to see config.log-how do i find that
[00:40:39] <steve_stallings> Hey, all you hexapod wannabes, check this out-- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230054967821
[00:41:10] <Rugludallur> Guest387: hmm did you already install gcc and build tools with apt get
[00:41:58] <Rugludallur> Guest387: sudo apt-get build-dep emc2-axis
[00:42:58] <Guest387> sudo apt-get install build-dep emcs2-dev???yes
[00:43:31] <Guest387> said couldn't find pakage build-dep
[00:44:03] <Rugludallur> Guest387: ok are you sure universe and multiverse are enabled
[00:44:33] <Rugludallur> Guest387: Try apt-get update
[00:44:39] <Guest387> no idea. over my head now
[00:44:57] <Rugludallur> Guest387: sudo apt-get update
[00:45:12] <Rugludallur> Guest387: sudo apt-get install build-dep emcs2-dev
[00:45:15] <Rugludallur> see if that works
[00:45:19] <Guest387> ok hold on
[00:46:01] <cradek> sudo apt-get build-dep emc2
[00:48:09] <Rugludallur> sorry Guest387, I got to go, hopefully the others can help you if you still have problems
[00:48:16] <Rugludallur> good night guys
[00:48:26] <Guest387> thanks
[00:48:38] <Rugludallur> did it work ?
[00:49:41] <Guest387> no
[00:50:05] <Guest387> could not open lock file
[00:50:17] <Rugludallur> sudo in front
[00:50:26] <Rugludallur> got to go , gl with the compile
[00:50:54] <Guest387> somethimg happenning
[01:13:07] <cradek> hi skunkworksemc
[01:21:50] <cradek> cool, with a little better tuning I can get 600mm/s2 accel on my lathe with no appreciable following error
[01:22:15] <cradek> it actually runs the motor backward a bit to decel
[01:40:32] <skunkworksemc> over shoot?
[01:41:28] <cradek> no, just normal powered decel I think (not coasting to a stop)
[01:42:04] <skunkworksemc> you mean emc send a reverse pwm signal to slow it down?
[01:42:13] <cradek> yes
[01:42:15] <skunkworksemc> cool
[01:45:04] <cradek> 1000mm/s2 now
[01:46:35] <skunkworksemc> your having way too much fun
[01:46:38] <skunkworksemc> :)
[01:47:10] <skunkworksemc> I wonder what sort of peak amperage your running thru that poor h-bridge
[01:48:12] <cradek> I don't know, but it sure is snappy now
[01:49:06] <skunkworksemc> the pwmgen is pretty cool - isn't it?
[01:49:15] <cradek> yep
[01:49:27] <cradek> I can't get very many levels, but it seems to be enough
[01:51:09] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/1000mms2.png
[01:51:50] <cradek> top is FE (1 div = .01mm), middle is pid output
[01:52:23] <cradek> FF2 makes all the difference in the world for this high accel
[02:05:02] <skunkworksemc> nice
[02:11:07] <cradek> hmm, I think this is new: when I home an axis with no homing velocities set, it sets the coord to 0 like it's supposed to, but the motor jumps a tiny bit
[02:15:57] <cradek> I got it on the scope - it jumps to -.003mm and then back to 0, 100msec later
[02:16:17] <skunkworksemc> that doesn't sound right :)
[02:16:49] <cradek> deadband is +- .0015, so I bet that's related
[02:26:15] <skunkworksemc> I have the encoder working on one of the monsters - need to bolt it down before I really play. But at 30 volts it is very hard to move.
[02:26:47] <cradek> this is a motor that will eventually run your big mill?
[02:26:59] <skunkworksemc> yes
[02:27:03] <cradek> neat
[02:27:28] <cradek> does that have limit and home switches already that you can just use as-is?
[02:28:03] <skunkworksemc> I am afraid to turn it up anymore without it being bolted down. if it oscolated it would probably end up on the floor
[02:28:31] <skunkworksemc> no - that would have to be set up to work corrctly. it zeroed on the 'accupins'
[02:28:38] <cradek> can you just use a C clamp or something simple?
[02:28:47] <cradek> oh right, "accupins" :-/
[02:29:42] <skunkworksemc> but an encoder with an index and a switch to get it close would work well
[02:30:00] <cradek> wonder if anyone is homing on index with emc2 yet
[02:30:16] <skunkworksemc> how does the mazak home?
[02:30:24] <cradek> plain old switches
[02:30:46] <cradek> it might have index that we aren't using - I don't know for sure
[03:15:51] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[03:26:18] <skunkworks> going to have to find what we are going to use for a power supply. :)
[03:30:35] <cradek> are you going to run close to your transistors' max voltage, or is there a lot of safety margin?
[03:32:07] <skunkworks> probably not. I get 500rpm at 80 volts. so around 100-150 might be the max we run. I think the mosfets are rated at 500v :)
[03:32:18] <skunkworks> it will be more of a current issue
[03:32:40] <cradek> ah, that's nice then
[03:34:00] <skunkworks> how is the lathe working?
[03:36:19] <skunkworks> jmk did a quick calc and came up with 4325 oz-in at 500 rpm - 20a
[03:46:16] <jepler> cradek: top speed is the same?
[03:46:33] <jepler> are you running at the motors' rated voltage?
[03:49:24] <cradek> jepler: I didn't increase the velocity but it sure looks like it could
[03:49:34] <cradek> 20-40% more I bet
[03:51:08] <cradek> the motors say 19 but I'm using 24 I think
[03:52:40] <cradek> the accel is nice for starting threads (and getting out), but there's no need for higher velocity it's so fast already
[04:01:25] <cradek> hmm also, I forgot the encoders might quit working over the current speed, it was the designed max
[04:45:29] <SWPadnos> cradek, what speed are the encoders?
[04:52:03] <cradek> I mean the software counting
[04:52:11] <SWPadnos> oh - that :)
[04:52:26] <SWPadnos> where's jepler's FPGA thing when you need it? ;)
[04:52:42] <cradek> I don't remember the details but I remember it was designed to work at this speed, so I'm not going to mess with it
[04:52:48] <cradek> well I hear it's pretty much done...
[04:53:23] <SWPadnos> ah - are you referring to the software in the AVR-based divider?
[04:53:23] <cradek> we'll probably want to make a whole new driver board to use it
[04:53:58] <cradek> I don't actually remember which (avr or hal) is closest to the speed limit
[04:53:59] <SWPadnos> it would be pretty cool to have a mix of skunkworks' driver and the FPGA counter/pulser
[04:54:03] <SWPadnos> ah
[04:54:07] <cradek> yep it sure would
[04:54:17] <cradek> suitable for even a large machine it seems like
[04:54:41] <SWPadnos> yeah, though something in me rebels at the idea of thoroughly mixing power and control circuits
[04:54:43] <cradek> (I think skunkworks ordered the fpga board today)
[04:55:13] <cradek> explain rebels
[04:55:18] <SWPadnos> doesn
[04:55:19] <cradek> recoils?
[04:55:23] <SWPadnos> doesn't like it
[04:55:26] <cradek> ah
[04:55:28] <SWPadnos> yeah - maybe that's a better word
[04:55:52] <SWPadnos> or rebels at the side of my brain that mentioned it in the first place ;)
[04:56:01] <cradek> you do need isolation at all the right places
[04:56:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:56:25] <cradek> I'm sure no expert, but it seems like there's no magic anywhere, it just takes care
[04:56:31] <SWPadnos> that's true
[04:56:40] <SWPadnos> there's care and expense, to do it "right"
[04:57:08] <SWPadnos> actually, the little isolator chips jmk mentioned before may do the trick
[04:57:19] <cradek> I didn't see that
[04:57:35] <SWPadnos> hmmm - he was talking about some Analog Devices chips, I think
[04:57:52] <SWPadnos> meant for high speed communications, but also useful for other isolation applications
[04:57:57] <cradek> I don't have much isolation on my lathe - parport hooks right up to the driver
[04:58:02] <SWPadnos> eek
[04:58:40] <cradek> maybe optos are overrated :-)
[04:58:48] <SWPadnos> heh - that must be it
[04:59:04] <SWPadnos> who needs isolation anywhere - it works for cradek without!
[04:59:31] <cradek> I think you're channeling someone I know
[04:59:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I wonder if all this yodaspeak means that I should go to bed
[05:00:21] <cradek> my lathe is probably silly to most, but I think it broke some barriers for me and hal both
[05:00:32] <SWPadnos> yeah - I thnk it's very cool
[05:00:59] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should try to figure out how to get one delivered here
[05:01:11] <cradek> one what?
[05:01:26] <SWPadnos> there are (were) a couple of very nicely maintained Hardinge CHNC lathes for sale about 8 miles from me
[05:01:45] <SWPadnos> $500 for the lathe, but it's ~3000 pounds, so delivery is significant
[05:01:49] <cradek> cool
[05:01:57] <cradek> have space for it?
[05:02:14] <SWPadnos> as long as I give up on the idea of parking the van in the garage, yes :)
[05:02:20] <cradek> haha
[05:02:27] <SWPadnos> ever
[05:03:28] <cradek> before the first snow I move everything in the garage that prevents my car from fitting into the barn. 7? years later, that scheme is STILL working to my amazement
[05:03:49] <SWPadnos> wow - you must have a magic expanding barn
[05:03:52] <cradek> for your lathe, that wouldn't work so well.
[05:04:04] <cradek> well, it started big and empty, ask me in a couple more years :-)
[05:04:04] <SWPadnos> we have a1/2 acre fenced lot, so there's no option for that here :(
[05:04:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:04:11] <SWPadnos> will do
[05:04:20] <cradek> I can already tell it's not going to work forever
[05:04:53] <cradek> but if I run across a mill I *will* make room
[05:04:54] <SWPadnos> I guess the "external storage space" has to be large enough for really old things to have decomposed fully before you run out of space
[05:05:03] <cradek> haha
[05:05:10] <cradek> that works for the planet I guess
[05:05:14] <SWPadnos> maybe
[05:05:27] <cradek> well so far (like the barn)
[05:05:33] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah, so far.
[05:06:51] <cradek> do you have use for a cnc lathe or is it just something every kid should have?
[05:08:16] <SWPadnos> err - well
[05:08:23] <SWPadnos> I probably have a use for it
[05:08:26] <SWPadnos> sometimes
[05:08:26] <SWPadnos> I guess
[05:08:49] <SWPadnos> that's kind of why I didn't buy it on sight
[05:08:56] <cradek> I understand
[05:09:06] <SWPadnos> but I'd still like it - to make the shop complete
[05:09:22] <SWPadnos> err - more complete (it's never really complete ... )
[05:09:31] <cradek> if you need it sometimes, you shouldn't miss a deal, but on the other hand it's always around while you don't need it
[05:09:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:10:05] <SWPadnos> yep, and I still have a slight chance of being able to rearrange the garage to allow both vehicles to fit in it for the winter
[05:10:18] <cradek> I was often running out of swing on my sherline and bought a 6" craftsman for $300, never regretted it one second
[05:10:36] <cradek> I've used it maybe a dozen times only, but it's very nice to have
[05:10:44] <SWPadnos> the little craftsman lathe?
[05:10:57] <cradek> yeah
[05:11:06] <cradek> forget what it's called
[05:11:09] <SWPadnos> well - I was thinking of making lens mounts - possibly several hundred of them
[05:11:17] <SWPadnos> so a CNC is quite useful in that situation
[05:11:17] <ChrisMorley> greetings. I am looking for a little help getting head to run properly
[05:11:25] <SWPadnos> you've come to the right place
[05:11:35] <cradek> right place, maybe not the right time though
[05:12:12] <ChrisMorley> good. it seems the realtime module is not loading properly-wrong version?
[05:12:23] <cradek> what's the actual error you're seeing?
[05:12:34] <ChrisMorley> ver. 529 instead of 530?
[05:13:17] <ChrisMorley> it shuts down with a very long list of messages
[05:14:32] <SWPadnos> does this happen when you run emc and then halcmd or some other utility?
[05:14:40] <SWPadnos> or is it just from running emc?
[05:15:18] <ChrisMorley> after I pick a configuration. etch.servo for instance
[05:15:49] <ChrisMorley> rtapi init fail
[05:16:19] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm not sure exactly how to fix that, but I do recall a discussion about a similar problem.
[05:16:25] <ChrisMorley> says version mismatch
[05:16:48] <SWPadnos> the issue was that some of the utilities run from the emc script are part of the installed version
[05:16:48] <ChrisMorley> emc2 still works just not HEAD
[05:16:58] <cradek> did you build head run-in-place?
[05:17:05] <ChrisMorley> yes
[05:17:17] <cradek> how are you running it exactly?
[05:17:30] <SWPadnos> right - the problem is that realtime is started from the run in place version, but the installed version is in the PATH
[05:17:37] <ChrisMorley> it does give mesages about directories that are foe reular emc2
[05:17:39] <cradek> (I do this all the time - 2.0.4 is installed, head is in a directory)
[05:17:55] <SWPadnos> I think that sourcing the scripts/emc-environment script fixes it
[05:18:19] <cradek> we really need to see the messages and errors. try pastebin.ca
[05:18:45] <cradek> SWPadnos: but I run that way constantly without problem
[05:18:43] <ChrisMorley> go to to scripts in the emc2-head directory run "emc"
[05:18:58] <cradek> ok, you need to be in emc2-head and run scripts/emc
[05:19:40] <ChrisMorley> yes that is what i did
[05:20:02] <SWPadnos> those aren't the same thing
[05:20:13] <cradek> which did you do?
[05:20:37] <ChrisMorley> scripts/emc
[05:20:49] <ChrisMorley> from emc2-head
[05:20:55] <cradek> ok
[05:21:08] <cradek> I'm back to saying we need to see the output and errors then
[05:21:24] <ChrisMorley> k how can i get that to you?
[05:21:30] <ChrisMorley> pretty gteen here
[05:21:32] <cradek> go to www.pastebin.ca and paste them in
[05:21:39] <cradek> then you get a URL you can paste here
[05:22:01] <ChrisMorley> ok will get back to you thanks!
[05:27:36] <ChrisMorley> the url is pastebin.ca/260284
[05:28:32] <cradek> what did you use as arguments when you ran configure?
[05:28:53] <cradek> hmm there isn't another emc running is there?
[05:29:13] <ChrisMorley> not at the same time no
[05:29:34] <cradek> wonder if you have some modules loaded still
[05:29:49] <cradek> but back to configure: what arguments did you use?
[05:30:25] <ChrisMorley> ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[05:30:48] <ChrisMorley> I have reboot and tried . i could again
[05:31:20] <cradek> could you pastebin the output of lsmod?
[05:31:46] <ChrisMorley> where do i find that?
[05:31:55] <cradek> run the command lsmod
[05:32:18] <ChrisMorley> ismod not found
[05:32:29] <SWPadnos> that's a lower case L
[05:32:35] <SWPadnos> Lsmod
[05:32:44] <ChrisMorley> lol
[05:32:46] <SWPadnos> (lower case though :) )
[05:33:06] <ChrisMorley> will paste it
[05:34:04] <ChrisMorley> 260291
[05:35:16] <cradek> ChrisMorley: you said the installed 2.0.4 still runs? like if you try it right now?
[05:35:37] <ChrisMorley> i will run it now
[05:36:13] <ChrisMorley> seems to work fine.
[05:36:26] <cradek> ok exit it and try running head again with scripts/emc
[05:36:30] <ChrisMorley> hal scope is running
[05:37:22] <ChrisMorley> same thing no worky
[05:37:36] <cradek> I'm a bit stumped
[05:37:56] <ChrisMorley> well that sucks!
[05:37:59] <SWPadnos> I'm too stumped to think about it before getting a night's sleep :)
[05:38:22] <cradek> in the src directory, try make clean, the configure --enable-run-in-place again, then make
[05:38:28] <cradek> theN configure ...
[05:38:54] <ChrisMorley> I have done that already but could do it again
[05:39:06] <cradek> I'm puzzled because just one hour ago I did this on my ubuntu 6.06 system with the 2.0.4 packages installed
[05:39:55] <cradek> virtually all the developers run this way, I don't know what's going on with your setup that's different
[05:40:02] <ChrisMorley> I'm sure I have done something as I am pretty blind. took some help just to get head to compile
[05:40:37] <ChrisMorley> what does make clean do?
[05:41:02] <cradek> removes the compiled programs so everything all builds again
[05:41:17] <ChrisMorley> I will do that again then
[05:41:35] <cradek> for good measure, in the emc2-head directory, run cvs up -dP
[05:41:40] <ChrisMorley> all the comands to do this I copied from wikki
[05:41:58] <cradek> ok
[05:42:16] <cradek> maybe one of us should try it with exactly those commands then, but probably tomorrow
[05:42:20] <ChrisMorley> make clean first or cvs up -dp?
[05:42:28] <cradek> make clean
[05:42:38] <cradek> then cvs up -dP <== note lowercase d, uppercase P
[05:42:46] <ChrisMorley> lol
[05:42:48] <ChrisMorley> nice
[05:43:01] <cradek> meanwhile I need to get to bed
[05:43:17] <ChrisMorley> ok thanks I will play.
[05:43:24] <cradek> I/we'll be around daytime (US) tomorrow like usual
[05:43:39] <cradek> goodnight and good luck
[05:43:41] <ChrisMorley> I will bump into you then . good night
[06:37:23] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[06:37:23] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone kicking?
[14:05:08] <skunkworks> Don't go
[14:18:19] <granville> hi guys, i'm getting alot of joint folling errors, using a stepper system. what do i need to adjust to try to get rid of these? i've lowered the max_velocity on all axis's and still get them when motion changes from x axis to y axis.
[14:19:03] <cradek> can you put your config somewhere we can get it to check?
[14:19:33] <skunkworks> cradek: I had used the wiki instruction to install head yesterday - the only issue I had was with lynx
[14:19:51] <skunkworks> (had to activate the multiverse
[14:20:00] <cradek> ok, that's good to know
[14:20:14] <cradek> did you fix the wiki?
[14:20:26] <granville> give me a minute
[14:20:34] <skunkworks> I think jepler did. Have not looked
[14:21:33] <cradek> I really don't know what ChrisMorley's problem is... I think he got tired of hearing me say it, but developers build like that all the time
[14:23:24] <skunkworks> I had all kinds of issues when I didn't follow the directions properly :) Like forgeting to sudo apt-get build-dep emc2
[14:23:46] <anonimasu> cradek: are you positively sure it's not your fault ^_^
[14:23:50] <granville> my ini file is at http://www.gobarker.com/granville.ini
[14:24:14] <cradek> anonimasu: what's my fault?
[14:24:34] <anonimasu> cradek: the build problems he's having
[14:24:44] <anonimasu> and my backslash/scrapped parts :D
[14:25:14] <cradek> anonimasu: certainly not sure, but it's unlikely it works for everyone but him because of something I did :-)
[14:25:23] <anonimasu> cradek: hehe
[14:25:35] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:25:46] <anonimasu> how do you explain my parts?
[14:25:56] <anonimasu> *grins*
[14:26:04] <skunkworks> granville: which axis is causing the error - z (axis 2)
[14:26:09] <skunkworks> ?
[14:26:12] <cradek> anonimasu: now I don't know what you're talking about
[14:26:24] <granville> cradek, i had to really lower the max_vel on z or i would get axis errors everytime i tried to jog.
[14:26:46] <cradek> granville: is the z scale really supposed to be 40000 steps per inch?
[14:26:45] <granville> now, i'm seeing them on x and y, when moving x, then the move should turn to y.
[14:26:48] <anonimasu> cradek: need to blame somone ;)
[14:26:58] <jepler> granville: for Z there is no headroom in acceleration
[14:27:13] <cradek> aha I bet jepler spotted it
[14:27:13] <jepler> MAX_ACCELERATION = 2.0
[14:27:17] <jepler> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 2.0
[14:27:49] <granville> i had been lowering max_accel to try to stop the errors, i guess i should lower both?
[14:28:08] <jepler> STEPGEN_MAXxxx should be "a bit bigger than" MAX_xxx for the same axis
[14:28:08] <cradek> no, you always have to have STEPGEN_MAXACCEL higher
[14:28:34] <granville> a bit?
[14:28:48] <cradek> try 5% higher
[14:29:40] <skunkworks> the max you can get on z is about .25
[14:29:55] <skunkworks> inches per second
[14:30:45] <granville> ok, what about the problems i'm seeing on x and y, max accel is lower than stepgen-maxaccel
[14:31:17] <cradek> what's the problem again?
[14:31:26] <granville> i don't think those valuse have changed on x and y since i was cutting with it sunday, we only adjusted the scale a bit. joint following errors.
[14:32:23] <cradek> try turning off backlash compensation and see if that makes the problem go away
[14:32:51] <granville> it moves out with the g00 move, moves down, starts moving along x axis at feed rate, gets to where it is suspose to stop x and turn y, and gives the error.
[14:33:10] <granville> ah, that's probably it, i added the backlash last night.
[14:33:39] <rayh> IMO there really is only one underlying cause of following error with steppers and EMC2.
[14:35:30] <skunkworks> ray: want to expand on that? :)
[14:36:21] <granville> so what is the real problem, computer not fast enough? It's not like emc is getting feedback from the router.
[14:38:12] <jepler> there are at least 3 reasons I know of. Not specifying stepgen headroom. not being able to issue enough steps per second (base period too big / scale too big). and the naive backlash implementation in emc 2.0.x.
[14:38:49] <jepler> The reason you can't increase the Z velocity further without getting following errors is the "steps per second" issue -- with BASE_PERIOD=50000 you can issue at most 10000 steps per second.
[14:39:34] <granville> I had a feeling the z axis problem was related to that since it has so many steps per inch.
[14:39:48] <skunkworks> granville: how fast is this computer?
[14:39:55] <granville> p3-933
[14:40:07] <jepler> almost any computer can handle BASE_PERIOD=20000 which will allow up to 25000 steps per second
[14:40:10] <cradek> granville: you should be able to reduce your base period by half then (25000)
[14:40:18] <skunkworks> You should be able to lower your base period to sqeek out a few more ipm
[14:40:29] <skunkworks> or squeek even
[14:40:51] <jepler> I think you mean "eke out"
[14:41:06] <granville> z axis speed really doesn't matter much, but i will drop it by half to see how fast i can get x & y to go :)
[14:41:16] <skunkworks> you haven't seen the machines I tinker on ;)
[14:41:43] <cradek> you aren't going to have much of a problem with XY because they have a nice low scale
[14:42:07] <jepler> granville: I don't think the BASE_PERIOD is limiting the step rate on X and Y. You are doing only about 2400 steps per second on those axes, well below the 10000 step limit for BASE_PERIOD=50000
[14:42:15] <skunkworks> that is almost the scale on my gantry - very nice. x/y
[14:42:15] <granville> will the lower base period help with the backlash issue?
[14:42:26] <cradek> no
[14:42:52] <cradek> backlash comp for steppers is pretty bad in 2.0. It works well only for very small values
[14:42:57] <rayh> Expanding. The computer can't keep up with step rate demand.
[14:43:14] <skunkworks> you should be able to do a good 240ipm if your steppers can handle it.
[14:43:21] <cradek> in the upcoming 2.1 there is a new algorithm
[14:43:52] <granville> ok, great, i think i'm ready to head back to the shop, thanks guys!
[14:44:00] <rayh> Demand is greater at higher speeds, during accell.
[14:44:35] <cradek> good luck granville, let us know how it comes out
[14:52:08] <kwajstabo> can i run emc laptop with amd turion64
[14:52:36] <kwajstabo> i istalled ubuntu64 already
[14:52:46] <cradek> many laptops don't work well with realtime, you can only try and find out
[14:53:01] <cradek> you cannot run emc on ubuntu64, only i386
[14:53:56] <kwajstabo> what about running i386 on turion64?
[14:53:56] <cradek> you can boot the live CD and test latency on your laptop with the rtai latency test
[14:54:15] <cradek> you can use the i386 install of ubuntu on any 64 bit machine
[14:55:37] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting section 2.1 is the latency test
[14:55:37] <kwajstabo> ok, thank you
[14:56:33] <cradek> if you have not downloaded ubuntu i386 yet, it's easiest to get the emc2 CD
[14:58:12] <kwajstabo> you mean BDI?
[14:58:28] <cradek> no, the ubuntu liveCD that comes with emc2 on it
[14:58:35] <cradek> you can find it on linuxcnc.org
[14:58:54] <cradek> it's just a ubuntu 6.06 with emc2 preinstalled
[14:59:26] <cradek> (BDI does not come with emc2)
[15:00:40] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[15:01:04] <kwajstabo> i found it...thank you!
[15:01:22] <cradek> welcome
[15:44:56] <skunkworks> cradek: I don't see your tuning experience on the wiki :)
[17:02:11] <granville> well, i cut out a picture frame, it turned out ok, but i either missed steps on the x moves, have an error in my g-code, the pulley is still slipping on the x-axis, or the issues are caused by backlash
[17:04:01] <granville> for the most part i was cutting concentric rectangles for an 8x10 pocket for a picture, then cut out the center 7.75 x 9.75, all the south cuts along the y looked good, but the ones on the other end were off a good bit. it didn't have any problem staying on the same track making multiple passes to cut through the material.
[17:05:22] <granville> taking out the backlash got rid of the joint following errors.
[17:06:45] <cradek> that's good to know (it's a known problem)
[17:08:24] <skunkworks> granville: do you have any pictures of your setup?
[17:12:14] <granville> it looks like the pictures at machinetoolcamp.com, i can take detailed pictures if you want.
[17:13:04] <granville> will emc run on a voompc M1000, with a 1ghz nehemiah processor? http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.101/.f
[17:13:18] <cradek> looks like the brush and vacuum setup is nice
[17:13:59] <SWPadnos> the nehemiah processir is a multimedia-oriented chip, isn't it?
[17:14:01] <SWPadnos> processor
[17:14:10] <granville> i've got the brushed mounted but i stand there holding the vaccum cleaner in place.
[17:14:53] <cradek> granville: I do that too :-)
[17:16:22] <SWPadnos> you may be interested in the $20 (ish) remote controlled electrical outlets at Home Depot
[17:16:41] <SWPadnos> I hang the remote transmitter on the quill drive of the Bridgeport, and the shop-vac is plugged into it
[17:16:58] <SWPadnos> I may take one apart to see how to control it from a computer
[17:17:43] <jepler> granville: there was a recent thread on our mailing list about a similar system -- that one with a VIA CPU
[17:18:17] <jepler> you can read that thread here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/95/focus=95
[17:18:59] <granville> nearest home depot is 70 miles away, I've got a contactor in the control box that i need to get wired to an outlet for the router and the vac, and those limit switches. details....
[17:22:19] <granville> oh, i thought that pc had a parallel port, guess not, forget that!
[17:23:30] <granville> i guess the ide port is really a parallel port, has anyone configured hal for an ide port?
[17:23:56] <jepler> no, I've never heard of anyone doing that
[17:24:14] <jepler> it's an interesting thought, but I don't know whether the pins on an IDE port can be individually controlled by software -- I kinda doubt it
[17:26:36] <granville> there's also an unused floppy port on most computers today. wonder if you unload all the floppy drivers if you can use it.
[17:27:56] <skunkworks> or the sound card as a 2 channel dac
[17:28:01] <skunkworks> :)
[17:28:22] <cradek> vga = 3 channel
[17:29:22] <granville> if your good, you might not even need servo drivers using the vga port!
[17:29:51] <granville> I guess you need the drivers, but maybe not the controllers.
[17:30:48] <cradek> aside from the fact that I was just kidding...
[17:35:09] <jepler> http://www.intel.com/design/archives/periphrl/docs/29209302.pdf
[17:35:26] <jepler> huh, this is a '92 document about floppy drive formats including "perpendicular recording". I thought "perpendicular" was the new innovation in hard drives in 2005/2006
[17:35:58] <SWPadnos> what was old is new again
[17:36:03] <SWPadnos> seems to happen all the time
[17:45:01] <granville> looks like a floppy port has enought output pins, but you would probably get some pretty erratic behavior during a reboot.
[18:07:57] <SWPadnos> I'd be very surprised if you could get a floppy port to work with EMC2
[18:08:18] <skunkworks> jepler: do you have the link to the specs on the pluto fpga
[18:08:23] <SWPadnos> it's controlled by a specialized chip, the CPU doesn't have direct access to it
[18:10:00] <granville> how much current can those stepper drivers cradek built handle?
[18:15:54] <skunkworks> I am trying to find out how much current it will sink. I have found 16ma so far.
[18:16:21] <skunkworks> (3.3v)
[18:17:12] <granville> with good heat sinks is it comparable to geckos?
[18:18:30] <skunkworks> granville: no
[18:19:25] <skunkworks> I am sorry - my comment was towards the pluto fpga.
[18:19:33] <skunkworks> (current)
[18:20:39] <skunkworks> iirc http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm is 2 amp per phase
[18:23:24] <skunkworks> yes - the l298 is 2 amp per channel
[18:44:04] <jepler> skunkworks: altera.com/literature/ds/acex.pdf
[18:44:39] <jepler> skunkworks: I doubt it's a whole lot of current -- make sure you check the "total, all I/O pins" current too.
[18:46:56] <jepler> skunkworks: you looking at something that requires a lot of current?
[18:47:18] <jepler> .. not from a special-purpose chip
[18:52:21] <jepler> I haven't found a current figure in that pdf yet
[18:52:34] <jepler> max +-25mA per pin (page 45)
[18:54:53] <jepler> but there's a table on page 50 that shows currents >80mA
[18:54:55] <jepler> so I'm confused
[18:56:58] <skunkworks> jepler: not really - just want to pick a resister to drive the optos. and make sure I am not over that it can handle
[18:58:02] <jepler> ah
[18:58:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm - unfortunately, it looks like the ACEX line is "mature" - not recommended for new designs
[18:58:46] <jepler> SWPadnos: yeah I noticed that too
[18:59:11] <SWPadnos> e MAX line is supposed to replace it
[18:59:14] <jepler> as far as I can tell, they have not announced the end of manufacturing yet for this particular ACEX chip.
[18:59:16] <SWPadnos> er - I guess the ...
[19:00:58] <SWPadnos> jepler, do you know if your design is using the embedded RAM for various counters/registers?
[19:01:15] <SWPadnos> it may save some logic elements if that can be don (if it's not already)
[19:01:20] <SWPadnos> done
[19:01:28] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, it's not using the specialized RAM blocks
[19:09:50] <skunkworks> is http://altera.com/ down?
[19:10:49] <jepler> skunkworks: try adding www ?
[19:11:04] <skunkworks> sorry
[19:11:09] <skunkworks> :)
[19:33:26] <skunkworks> jepler: - if I read that right - it is showing output current vs voltage. showing when the output is high and low. At high - 20ma is 3v. trying to force a low -> high it will take 80ma to get the output to 3v or so.
[19:34:04] <skunkworks> which is probably bad ::)
[19:37:30] <skunkworks> only took a 15 minutes of staring at it to figure out what they where trying to show
[19:54:42] <SWPadnos> ok - so I guess the trick is to not open the Alamo "additional crap description" page, since it seems to take out all of Mozilla when you close it
[19:54:50] <SWPadnos> good to know :(
[20:12:59] <skunkworks> ok - I don't think I made my self clear. If your drawing 20ma from a high - the output voltage will drop to 3v or so.
[20:13:31] <skunkworks> if you try to force a low to a high - it takes 80ma to raise the pin voltage to 3v
[20:13:59] <skunkworks> again - probably bad :)
[20:14:07] <jepler> but more important than that, do you think you can calculate the appropriate resistor values from what you've found out?
[20:14:25] <skunkworks> yes- no problem.
[20:14:38] <skunkworks> Thanks again
[20:26:18] <skunkworks> I think the opto isolators like 15ma.. so 15ma is 3 volts. 3v-.6v=2.4 volts. So around 160ohm probably 220 will work which is what I think I put in there.
[20:26:51] <SWPadnos> 15ma is quite a bit for an optoisolator
[20:27:02] <skunkworks> yah - I chose poorly
[20:27:05] <skunkworks> :)
[20:27:13] <SWPadnos> I've seen some activate on ~20 uA
[20:27:20] <SWPadnos> what a pain that was ;)
[20:27:25] <skunkworks> I bet.
[20:27:46] <skunkworks> http://www.toshiba.com/taec/components2/Datasheet_Sync//212/4267.pdf
[20:35:09] <simon_> Whats the minimum hardware requirment for a dedicated system that drives three steppers through the parport?
[20:35:33] <jepler> simon_: please see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements
[20:43:11] <SWPadnos> gah - it's very annoying that car rental insurance is more expensive than the car rental itself
[20:43:58] <skunkworks> when we where in ireland - we spent aound $600 dollars on car insurance
[20:44:03] <cradek> check with your regular car insurance company - you already may have coverage
[20:44:14] <SWPadnos> it's more dicey when you rent in the UK
[20:44:47] <cradek> hmm yeah I bet that's worse
[20:45:12] <cradek> because you'll run into a half dozen folks figuring out how to make a right turn
[20:45:26] <cradek> before figuring out
[20:45:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:45:30] <skunkworks> Yah - our car insurence doesn't cover over seas
[20:45:42] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure mine is only good for the US and Canada
[20:45:48] <SWPadnos> though the credit card may cover the UK as well
[20:45:55] <skunkworks> driving on the wrong side of the road was a trick.
[20:46:08] <cradek> I bet
[20:46:11] <SWPadnos> I only had a problem with that when there were no other cars around for reference ;)
[20:46:26] <skunkworks> (wife did most of the driving) (actually all of the driving)
[20:47:22] <SWPadnos> actually, driving in England is good for us - my wife can only hear with her right ear, so this wat I get to drive and she can still hear me
[20:47:27] <SWPadnos> s/wat/way/
[20:49:08] <skunkworks> we drove out of the airport and promptly drove in the wrong land :)
[20:50:57] <SWPadnos> I think we even had a manual shifter - that was kind of fun with the left hand
[20:51:06] <skunkworks> so did we fiat
[20:51:11] <SWPadnos> we put about 1700 miles on it in the ~2 weeks we were there
[20:51:25] <skunkworks> took us a while to figure out how to get it into reverse :)
[20:51:46] <SWPadnos> yeah - the motion is wrong
[21:13:19] <mdynac> hello all, i have a question about CVS HEAD 2.1 pre
[21:13:33] <skunkworks> ask away
[21:14:29] <mdynac> emc crashes when loading the morenc config.....insmod error loading rtlib/motmod.ko
[21:16:11] <mdynac> unknown symbol error
[21:17:28] <cradek> look in dmesg to see the missing symbol
[21:18:33] <mdynac> well i can't right now, the emc machine is at work, and i don't have xchat loaded on the doze box that they use for internet
[21:19:10] <SWPadnos> if you're using a config from emc 2.0.x, then you need to add "loadrt trivkins" to a HAL file
[21:19:11] <cradek> that does not make it easy for us to help you troubleshoot...
[21:19:33] <cradek> if you're using a 2.0 config there are several things to fix - see the wiki page for details
[21:20:15] <mdynac> i will remedy that situation, the doze admin dude will be back next week and then i can load xchat up.......
[21:20:41] <cradek> some have had success using the java irc client on linuxcnc.org
[21:20:50] <mdynac> emc2.0.3 and 2.0.4 compile and run fine......
[21:21:12] <cradek> are you trying to use the same config with head?
[21:21:16] <SWPadnos> the config differences will still stop you until they're fixed
[21:21:31] <mdynac> SW yes i am using my motenc config from a different build.....
[21:21:52] <cradek> mdynac: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions
[21:22:02] <mdynac> do i need to edit the head configs?
[21:22:28] <cradek> you need to make a new copy of your working 2.0 config, then update it to work with head/2.1
[21:22:38] <cradek> this page explains the differences
[21:22:47] <mdynac> okay kewl, thx
[21:23:17] <SWPadnos> maybe the run script should mention the changes needed if there's an error
[21:23:26] <SWPadnos> or a link to the webpage
[21:23:36] <skunkworks> and the java irc client does work great - using it now.
[21:24:04] <cradek> SWPadnos: that would be easy if we had versioned configs, but we don't
[21:24:40] <SWPadnos> yeah - I suppose you can never know when to remove the message
[21:26:04] <cradek> with versioned configs we would just check forever
[21:26:42] <SWPadnos> yes, though the actual wiki page location may change arbitrarily
[21:27:32] <cradek> if (this is a 2.0 config && I'm 2.1) http://... else if (mismatch) polite error message;
[21:27:59] <cradek> and add another case for 2.2 later if appropriate
[21:31:56] <cradek> maybe even if(there is no version number in the config yet && I'm 2.1) ...
[21:32:24] <cradek> i.e. 2.1 could refuse configs that are not versioned, it's only one more step to updating a config
[21:33:07] <cradek> that lets us point people to appropriate instructions whenever we have to introduce incompatibilities in config files
[21:33:51] <cradek> I'm starting to think we should do this immediately (for 2.1)
[21:33:59] <SWPadnos> that may be a good idea
[21:34:13] <SWPadnos> I think we discussed that briefly a day or two ago - didn't we?
[21:34:28] <cradek> the config file compat number would be the first emc version it's compatible with
[21:34:46] <cradek> not sure - but I know it's not a new idea
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> hmmm - what you really need is the last version it's compatible with ...
[21:35:02] <mdynac> i take it that the adaptive feedrate will not be a part of the 2.0 version???
[21:35:16] <cradek> mdynac: no, 2.0 receives only bugfixes
[21:35:50] <mdynac> okay well i might as well just redo all my configs for the 2.1 version......
[21:36:03] <mdynac> i desperately need adaptive feed....
[21:36:15] <cradek> yours may already be done depending on the age of your cvs checkout...?
[21:36:31] <cradek> adaptive feed has not been released so you must be using some cvs checkout
[21:36:32] <mdynac> ummmm...last week?
[21:36:59] <mdynac> 22nov i downloaded it
[21:41:48] <cradek> but your config is much older?
[21:42:10] <cradek> you're mac from cnc workshop right?
[21:42:14] <mdynac> yes
[21:42:31] <mdynac> it works fine in all versions up to 204
[21:42:31] <cradek> are you going next year (june)?
[21:42:45] <mdynac> yes
[21:42:49] <cradek> ok you do need the updates on this webpage then
[21:43:11] <cradek> you had asked me about reading some old gcode tapes - I will bring my tape reader/punch and we can do it there if you like
[21:43:24] <mdynac> kewl
[21:43:41] <cradek> it's pretty portable
[21:44:02] <cradek> I could also make backups if I bring a few spools of tape :-)
[21:44:20] <mdynac> i have a reader/duplicator but i have no documents for it, and i cannot figure out how to connect it to a pc......
[21:44:34] <cradek> what's the connector?
[21:44:39] <mdynac> 25 pin
[21:44:43] <mdynac> 2 of them
[21:44:51] <mdynac> dsub
[21:44:51] <cradek> it's likely to be rs232 or 20mA current loop
[21:44:58] <cradek> one of each gender I suppose
[21:45:01] <mdynac> yes
[21:45:05] <cradek> it's probably rs232 then
[21:45:23] <cradek> that's a passthrough for modem->punch->terminal
[21:45:32] <cradek> lots of plotters have the same setup
[21:45:34] <mdynac> i c
[21:45:38] <cradek> (had...)
[21:45:59] <cradek> I'll help you figure it out if you bring it
[21:46:18] <cradek> remind me of all this when the time gets nearer
[21:46:20] <mdynac> kewl i will
[21:46:55] <mdynac> just never figured out how to talk to it...
[21:47:01] <mdynac> hyperterm??? telix?
[21:47:18] <cradek> with a null modem cable, probably at 110 or 300 baud, probably with parity
[21:47:33] <cradek> my punch has a slow/fast switch that will do 110 or 300
[21:47:45] <mdynac> k
[21:47:47] <cradek> some readers (but probably not punches) were 1200 baud, I have one of those too
[21:47:58] <skunkworks> we sold all of our tape punch/readers on ebay :)
[21:48:07] <mdynac> what brand is yours
[21:48:15] <cradek> sorry, no idea
[21:48:22] <skunkworks> cradek: you might have bought one of ours ;)
[21:48:33] <cradek> skunkworks: wouldn't that be something
[21:48:43] <cradek> skunkworks: it was many years ago, not sure it was from ebay
[21:48:59] <skunkworks> :) we sold them many years ago.
[21:49:06] <mdynac> hell, i had to save this one from the dumpster!!!!
[21:50:12] <cradek> that's where a lot of this good stuff is found :-)
[21:50:13] <skunkworks> after running tapes for a bit on the k&t - we quickly decided that it was a pain in the ass. and promply made a tape emulator.
[21:50:48] <mdynac> hmmm, a casual glance at the 2.1 motenc configs look just like the old ones.....
[21:51:09] <SWPadnos> use diff - there are probably some small changes
[21:51:14] <cradek> mdynac: either the casual glance isn't enough, or they aren't updated properly then
[21:51:23] <skunkworks> it is probably in the hal file. (the changes you need)
[21:51:38] <cradek> I think the nml file is totally different
[21:51:56] <mdynac> core_servo.hal?
[21:52:12] <cradek> yes probably one change is in there
[21:52:20] <mdynac> k
[21:52:22] <skunkworks> what ever hal file that is called from the ini :)
[21:52:27] <SWPadnos> is the loadrt trivkins in the HAL section of the ini?
[21:52:43] <SWPadnos> or is that in the core_whatever.hal?
[21:52:51] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/common/core_sim.hal.diff?r1=1.5;r2=1.6;f=h
[21:53:13] <cradek> the wiki page links to core_sim but I bet all the core_ have it
[21:55:18] <mdynac> core_servo.hal has the load trivkins
[21:55:41] <mdynac> however the head version at work does not......
[21:55:54] <mdynac> i somehow have 2 different head versions...
[21:57:06] <skunkworks> KNJN LLC-fpga4fun.com used PayPal Shipping with U.S. Postal Service
[21:58:16] <skunkworks> mdynac: did you use emc2 before the workshop?
[21:58:52] <mdynac> well i was fooling around with it....i am applying it to an EDM
[21:59:01] <skunkworks> (are you the one that had the fishing cap on?)
[21:59:44] <mdynac> i was working on the Japax LDMS all week....
[22:00:01] <mdynac> till the drive deck smoked.....
[22:00:24] <skunkworks> hmm - ok your not the person I was thinking of then :) you guys in the corner over there didn't seem to get out much ;)
[22:00:31] <cradek> haha
[22:01:21] <mdynac> i was hunkered down along side the Mazak
[22:01:41] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/version-error.png
[22:02:12] <cradek> whee
[22:02:16] <skunkworks> like I say. Mention it in passing and jepler does it :)
[22:02:23] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/version-error-2.png
[22:02:35] <cradek> jepler: what about minor updates that can use the same configs?
[22:03:00] <jepler> cradek: we'll have to complicate the checking later
[22:03:19] <cradek> jepler: ok
[22:03:28] <cradek> so I guess you think this is a good idea too?
[22:03:39] <jepler> even if we don't introduce incompatibilities like trivkins again it'll still be true that you can't use *all* 2.n configs on 2.n-1 -- they might use new components.
[22:04:16] <cradek> sure
[22:04:33] <cradek> it'll be fiddly won't it
[22:04:38] <SWPadnos> err - the (current) problem is using 2.n-1 configs with 2.n
[22:04:36] <jepler> yes it'll suck
[22:05:16] <SWPadnos> though it's true that anything that uses e.g. a comp component won't work at all on 2.0.x
[22:05:35] <ChrisSmol> any suggestions on places to get tooling? end mills and the like.
[22:05:56] <cradek> lots of folks seem to use ebay
[22:06:04] <SWPadnos> ebay, MSC, McMaster-carr, Grizzly (maybe), Enco ...
[22:06:21] <ChrisSmol> looking thru my dated mcmaster carr catalog now
[22:06:30] <SWPadnos> end mills don't change too much, I think
[22:06:39] <skunkworks> mcmaster car is a last resort.
[22:06:39] <SWPadnos> part numbers may though
[22:06:55] <mdynac> we have a boatload of mecatool stuff.....
[22:07:28] <mdynac> just lying around....
[22:07:27] <ChrisSmol> i'm looking for inexpensive ;-)
[22:07:51] <mdynac> you mean cheap???
[22:07:53] <ChrisSmol> heh
[22:08:20] <ChrisSmol> my first tasks will be making some jigs to hold things to be machined
[22:08:22] <mdynac> i guess i am spoiled....
[22:09:32] <mdynac> edmnetwork buys lots of used machines to refurbish and they come in with some awesome tooling....which we promptly remove and store...
[22:10:39] <ChrisSmol> i got a small assortment of end mills off ebay. i need some smaller dia stuff now
[22:12:35] <mdynac> can i change tthe output of the mist on/off signal from a low to high to just one pulse, for on/off ?
[22:12:59] <mdynac> 1 pulse = on one pulse = off
[22:13:27] <SWPadnos> you can do that in HAL or classicladder, but not from the motion controller
[22:13:48] <mdynac> it is a bit right now true?
[22:13:58] <SWPadnos> I think so
[22:14:22] <SWPadnos> in HEAD, there's an edge detector component, and I think it may have a programmable output duration
[22:14:39] <mdynac> kewl
[22:14:55] <SWPadnos> it's called edge, and it has an output duration set in nanoseconds
[22:15:13] <mdynac> i must get emc to do it for me or i just whip up a one-shot
[22:15:26] <mdynac> and use what i have now...
[22:15:45] <mdynac> the pulse out would be more "elegant"
[22:16:03] <SWPadnos> well, either way is subject to noise issues - if an extra pulse comes in, the coolant will remain in the opposite state than the one you want it in
[22:16:47] <mdynac> actually the "mist on/off" has been renamed to wire on/off
[22:17:04] <SWPadnos> either way - there may be noise issues :)
[22:17:57] <mdynac> they are using an 26ls31/33 combo for noise....
[22:18:29] <SWPadnos> 26LS?
[22:18:34] <SWPadnos> never heard of that series
[22:18:42] <mdynac> and 2 ls132's for a switch debouncer....
[22:19:00] <mdynac> diif line trans and rcvr
[22:23:12] <mdynac> i am interfacing emc to 1980's vintage circuitry....
[22:23:44] <skunkworks> join the club :) but think early 70's
[22:23:50] <mdynac> kewl
[22:24:10] <mdynac> good old ttl, very rugged...
[22:24:46] <skunkworks> actually - it is all descrete - but we are getting rid of _all_ of that. so it is mainly running the solinoids and such.
[22:24:53] <mdynac> tristate and cmos, wow what a nightmare!!!!
[22:25:05] <mdynac> discrete is good.....
[22:25:16] <skunkworks> germanium transisters? :)
[22:25:33] <mdynac> whoa dude.....now that is old.....
[22:26:01] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[22:26:11] <mdynac> i have a logic analyzer that is mostly ECL......
[22:27:01] <mdynac> skunkworks...what is that old thing?
[22:27:17] <skunkworks> kerney and trecker horizonatal milling center.
[22:27:23] <skunkworks> with a ge control
[22:27:32] <skunkworks> worked until about a year ago :)
[22:27:42] <mdynac> soon to be an emc control?
[22:28:05] <skunkworks> slowly but yes. Trying to do it on the cheap
[22:28:24] <mdynac> servos?
[22:28:46] <skunkworks> it has hydraulic servos now - replacing them with dc brushed
[22:29:10] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
[22:29:22] <mdynac> my motenc lite board is quite nice....no complaints......
[22:29:57] <skunkworks> yah - I was going to use emc to do it all - pwm out - encoders in to the printer port
[22:30:01] <mdynac> did it use a moog valve?
[22:30:19] <skunkworks> but now jepler found a very cheap fpga that will do it
[22:30:32] <skunkworks> or at least looks like it will :)
[22:30:40] <skunkworks> moog?
[22:30:50] <mdynac> Xilinx on the motenc
[22:31:07] <skunkworks> the servo valve was vickers - had a little buzzer in it to keep it from sticking
[22:31:13] <mdynac> to control hydraulics flow to motor
[22:31:58] <skunkworks> they where vickers iirc
[22:32:11] <mdynac> i c
[22:32:55] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/sinks.JPG
[22:32:56] <mdynac> old charmilles sinkers used hyraulic servo for the z axis controlled by the "moog valve"
[22:33:38] <skunkworks> hmm never heard of that. this thing is 2.5 axis - x and z shared the same servo. Can't wait to be full 3 axis.
[22:33:59] <mdynac> yer pretty quick with that camera!!!
[22:34:09] <skunkworks> no - these have been online for a while :)
[22:35:05] <mdynac> the moog valve is some old british brainiac idea.....
[22:35:30] <mdynac> kinda like the "dashpot"
[22:35:54] <mdynac> used to control take up spool torque on some edm's
[22:36:26] <skunkworks> neat
[22:36:27] <skunkworks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Moog
[22:36:57] <mdynac> that's the dude!!!!
[22:37:11] <skunkworks> ok - have to run bbl
[22:37:19] <skunkworks> nice talking to you
[22:37:20] <mdynac> same here bbl
[23:57:08] <mdynac> skunkworks do you program fpga's?
[23:58:26] <skunkworks> ha - no.
[23:59:19] <skunkworks> http://emergent.unpy.net/01164408418
[23:59:32] <skunkworks> this is what jepler has done so far.
[23:59:54] <skunkworks> I have done a little parralax playing but that is about it.