#emc | Logs for 2006-11-21

[00:04:16] <lerman> Thanks, Jymmmmm -- I just ordered four. Ken
[00:12:12] <Jymm> lerman,cool.
[00:12:42] <Jymmmm> I thought it was a great deal!
[00:13:25] <Jymmmm> I just picked one up locally.
[00:13:46] <Jymmmm> I'm installing a shit load of what they call "portable apps" on it right now.
[00:14:17] <Jymm> This is the irc client running on the USB. Once I unplug it, there is no residue left on the computer
[00:15:13] <Jymm> There's even portable firefox, openoffice, and a whole lot of others too
[00:15:33] <Jymmmm> http://kk.hopto.org:8080/wiki/index.php/Portable_USB_Drive_Apps#Graphics_Tools
[00:15:43] <Jymmmm> http://portableapps.com/apps
[02:46:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: clean up directories left by latex2html
[03:03:17] <cradek> wonder what's wrong with jerry mitchell's parport
[03:11:33] <skunkworks> the encoder I thought would be simple to trouble shoot. But the stupid thing has a 3 layer circuit board
[03:54:28] <A-L-P-H-A> A-L-P-H-A is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[04:07:02] <skunkworks> I will probably just put one of the usdigital encoder and sensor into the case - looks like it will fit.
[04:16:04] <ejholmgren> exit
[13:12:45] <cradek> hey look, our mailing list archives are back
[13:17:13] <cradek> wow their interface sure is terrible compared to gmane
[13:27:16] <jepler> cradek: hooray, I guess
[13:50:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): check for working libGL
[13:51:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. are there broken libGL's ?
[13:53:46] <jepler> jon elson reported that he got an error linking libGL, even though the header and GLU tests apparently passed
[13:54:24] <alex_joni> I see..
[13:54:36] <alex_joni> I remember some similar issues regarding some weird place for the libs
[13:54:39] <alex_joni> I think that was on FC
[13:54:52] <alex_joni> it wasn't libGL though.. some X lib
[13:55:47] <alex_joni> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=xlibmesa-gl-dev&version=stable&arch=i386
[13:56:01] <alex_joni> that says it's in usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so
[13:56:08] <jepler> the Linux standard is for libGL to go in /usr/bin http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/
[13:56:32] <jepler> (section 3.2)
[13:57:20] <alex_joni> then I guess Ubuntu doesn't conform either
[13:57:22] <jepler> alex_joni: and that package does have a copy in usr/lib -- see page 11
[13:57:32] <jepler> oh yeah? but ubuntu works just fine
[13:57:43] <alex_joni> jepler: I know ;)
[13:57:48] <alex_joni> but /usr/bin seems odd for a lib
[13:57:56] <alex_joni> or did you mean /usr/lib
[13:58:00] <jepler> I meant /usr/lib
[13:58:01] <jepler> oops
[13:58:06] <alex_joni> ok then ;)
[13:58:18] <jepler> yes, /usr/bin/ is a very odd location for a library
[14:00:33] <alex_joni> configure is nice ;)
[14:01:04] <jepler> too bad elson won't switch from bdi
[14:01:37] <alex_joni> I think he will eventually
[14:01:53] <alex_joni> but I must say I understand how he feels about reinstalling working systems
[14:02:18] <alex_joni> I _should_ reinstall my home machine.. but can't seem to get my things together to do so
[14:02:50] <alex_joni> it's a ca. 5 years old Win2k install, a breezy (updated to dapper) another dapper all on hdb (about 10 partitions)
[14:40:39] <Dallur> Does anyone here have real world experience with stepper cabling, wondering how much difference it makes to have twisted pairs instead of straight (2x2 vs 4x1)
[15:00:29] <eholmgren> thanks to whoever suggested that I meter the transformers before I hooked them up to the 5v on my stepper drives
[15:00:43] <eholmgren> the 4v was running at 9v
[15:00:49] <eholmgren> and the 5v was closer to 7v
[15:00:54] <eholmgren> :\
[15:01:47] <jepler> depending what it runs under load, you might be able to use a standard +5V regulator (7805 or equivalent) on the one with a 9V output
[15:02:57] <alex_joni> I suspect the 9V will drop considerabely under load
[15:08:27] <jepler> I suspect it too
[15:10:00] <jepler> if you think you'll use around 100mA of current, then try measuring the voltage with a ~90ohm 1W resistor across it and see how big the drop is
[15:20:33] <cradek> do you have a very old PC power supply (pre-ATX)?
[15:26:49] <eholmgren> yes
[15:26:57] <eholmgren> still have an AT somewhere
[15:27:04] <cradek> that might be a good place to get regulated 5V
[15:27:34] <cradek> wall warts are really for charging batteries, they don't make good logic supplies
[15:27:43] <eholmgren> good to know
[15:27:48] <cradek> well don't take apart a working AT! I meant a spare one
[15:28:15] <eholmgren> what am I going to power with an AT?
[15:28:18] <eholmgren> an old 486?
[15:28:20] <eholmgren> :)
[15:28:44] <Dallur> ATX psus are fine to, just bridge the green wire to a black wire and that is your on/off switch
[15:28:54] <eholmgren> guess I'll just do it right the first time and mount the drives on the side of the case
[15:29:02] <eholmgren> and run 5v off the psu
[16:52:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[16:54:37] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: how's it going?
[16:54:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how's what going?
[16:55:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or just in general?
[16:55:54] <jepler> just in general
[16:56:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I've got a bit much to do wrt school atm, math and electricity stuff that takes up way too much time. but my electric bike is coming along nicely :D
[16:57:08] <jepler> school can be that way
[16:57:12] <jepler> when is the end of the term?
[16:57:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> all I need to do to make a test run (without PWM, a protective case and so on) is some form of attaching the lower gear to the wheel without shearing the spokes off
[16:57:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 20th dec or thereabouts
[16:57:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> first term in college now, a bit different ;)
[17:10:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how are you jepler?
[17:11:26] <jepler> having one of those weeks where I feel I can't do anything right
[17:11:34] <jepler> but this is a holiday week in the US, I get thursday and friday off ("thanksgiving")
[17:12:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, was thanksgiving this late? I seem to remeber it as being a week or so after the start of november
[17:13:09] <jepler> In the US, I think the rule is that it's on the 4th thursday of november.
[17:13:45] <jepler> so it's always fairly late in the month
[17:18:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[17:18:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra hasn't had a thanksgiving dinner for a long time
[17:19:16] <jepler> it's the cranberries I like best
[17:26:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ooh, they're really nice
[17:26:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> we have a similar berry jam/gel here in sweden, though it's not exactly the same
[17:26:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> afaik they're related species
[17:27:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccinium_vitis-idaea
[17:44:28] <skunkworks> lefsa is what I am waiting for - and flat bread
[17:45:31] <skunkworks> (Mother starts making it around now - until christmas)
[18:43:00] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: I've heard of that berry, but I'm not sure whether I've ever had it.
[18:43:04] <jepler> probably never fresh
[19:04:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: oh, I've never had it fresh myself, it's very common find it in a jam/gel like form
[19:04:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> lots of pectin to make it "stiff"
[19:04:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> a bit sweeter than the cranberry
[19:05:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> IMO the cranberry has a superior taste
[19:05:52] <jepler> I see
[19:06:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[19:06:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hey it worked
[19:16:43] <tfmacz> Hi Lawrence
[20:11:19] <Rugludallur> A quick poll for you all, which cam tool is your favorite and which is your cam of choice for 2D work ?
[21:21:42] <anonimasu> :)
[21:21:44] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: what's up?
[21:34:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, not too much, watching some of that funky japanese stuff
[21:35:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what about you?
[21:35:33] <anonimasu> I plan on doing the same
[21:35:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh? which?
[21:35:58] <anonimasu> inukami
[21:36:17] <anonimasu> I think
[21:36:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,3536,klrmly,inukami_.html ?
[21:37:07] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:37:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok :)
[21:37:30] <anonimasu> it's funny :)
[21:37:45] <anonimasu> and the review's crap :/
[21:38:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah... :p
[21:38:24] <anonimasu> then may dman-gray or something :)
[21:38:39] <anonimasu> im braindead from drawing parts today :/
[21:38:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> seen juuni kokuki?
[21:38:52] <anonimasu> yes
[21:38:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, then something else might be better suited
[21:39:06] <anonimasu> 12 kingdoms :)
[21:39:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> did you like it?
[21:39:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah :D
[21:39:13] <anonimasu> yes, I did :)
[21:39:23] <anonimasu> there isnt much stuff I havent seen :/
[21:39:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha, ok
[21:40:11] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: seen nhk ni yokoso ?
[21:40:12] <anonimasu> :D
[21:40:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> seen elfen lied and/or shingetsutan tsukihime?
[21:40:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, nope
[21:40:29] <anonimasu> yokosou..
[21:40:33] <anonimasu> yes
[21:40:45] <anonimasu> both :)
[21:40:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what did you think of them?
[21:41:02] <alex_joni> hi all
[21:41:13] <alex_joni> do you guys know st'lucy day?
[21:41:17] <anonimasu> no
[21:41:24] <alex_joni> anonimasu: 12-13th december
[21:41:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi alex
[21:41:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, maybe lucia
[21:41:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,3583,iefcng,nhk_ni_yokoso_.html <-- haha, nice summary
[21:42:23] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: shingetsutan tsukihime is really great, but elfen lied didnt have that great story :)
[21:42:42] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: It's been a long time since I laughed that hard
[21:43:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, that's what I thought too (I liked the unforgiving attidude that elfen lied had)
[21:43:06] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:43:22] <anonimasu> ka-gib.
[21:43:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.vg.upplandsvasby.se/Bilder/Lucia2005/Stora/3.JPG <-- lucia in sweden is where people do stuff like that
[21:43:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> commonly in schools
[21:43:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:44:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ka-gib?
[21:44:24] <anonimasu> ever played quake?
[21:44:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah
[21:44:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't get the ka abbreviation
[21:44:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> telekinetic-gib maybe
[21:44:56] <anonimasu> hehe..
[21:45:17] <anonimasu> well, if you've played quake and show a quad rocket into a room with 5 players in a corner.. ;)
[21:45:31] <anonimasu> the sound that it makes.
[21:45:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, yeah, haha
[21:46:13] <anonimasu> it's a but like "nya" not really related to the sound..
[21:46:30] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[21:47:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nyu!
[21:47:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> :p
[21:47:50] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: what is it you are going to watch?
[21:48:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I watched the first and second episode of death note just now. it seems to hold some promise actually, but I'm afraid that it will go all NGE :/
[21:48:54] <anonimasu> hm, it dosent..
[21:49:13] <anonimasu> though I dont know about the anime, but the manga is great..
[21:49:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, nice :D
[21:49:37] <anonimasu> the story's well covered, so unless they majorly screw up :D
[21:49:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> afaik the subbers were pleased with the conversion
[21:50:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> at least so far (ep 7 or so)
[21:50:09] <anonimasu> :)
[21:50:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> looks like we scared alex away :p
[21:50:36] <anonimasu> attack of the otakus
[21:50:52] <anonimasu> horrid way of putting it, geeks would be more aproperiate
[21:51:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra gets a bad mental image when he reads "attack of the *something that looks like tentacles*"
[21:51:10] <anonimasu> haha
[21:51:14] <anonimasu> otakus scare me.
[21:51:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah.. scary blighters
[21:51:37] <anonimasu> well laters :)
[21:52:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ?
[21:52:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> going?
[21:52:12] <anonimasu> yeah, going to rest a bit :)
[21:52:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[21:52:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> i'm going soon too.
[21:53:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> early day tomorrow :/
[21:53:05] <anonimasu> I'll be back in 20 or so :)
[21:53:06] <anonimasu> :/
[21:53:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> see you tommorrow then
[21:53:41] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:53:42] <anonimasu> night
[21:53:47] <anonimasu> enjoy the show :)
[21:54:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bye
[21:57:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night folk
[21:58:13] <anonimasu> night
[22:07:10] <alex_joni> back now
[22:07:16] <alex_joni> it was lucia
[22:07:28] <alex_joni> but it seems LH is gone now :)
[22:14:11] <alex_joni> anyways.. too long a day
[22:14:15] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:14:48] <anonimasu> night alex
[22:38:27] <robin_sz> meep?
[22:38:43] <Twingy> 5.14kWh today
[22:38:46] <Twingy> new record high
[22:44:07] <robin_sz> wind power?
[22:44:43] <Twingy> solar
[22:44:47] <Twingy> solar.js.cx
[22:44:54] <robin_sz> ahh.
[22:45:02] <robin_sz> we sold off the solar cells we had
[22:46:24] <ChrisSmol> what are you paid per kWh?
[22:46:38] <robin_sz> 10c ish
[22:47:41] <ChrisSmol> so 51 cents
[22:47:46] <robin_sz> roughly
[22:48:29] <robin_sz> I suspect thats not the point though
[22:48:39] <Twingy> net metering
[22:48:48] <Twingy> 51 cents?
[22:49:01] <Twingy> where did you learn how to read graphs?
[22:49:18] <robin_sz> school?
[22:49:35] <Twingy> was asking ChrisSmol
[22:49:47] <robin_sz> I suspect he learnt in school too
[22:49:57] <ChrisSmol> 5.14 kWh * 10 cents = 51.4 cents
[22:50:03] <Twingy> 18.8 cents
[22:50:28] <robin_sz> so 90 cents ish then
[22:50:34] <Twingy> now crunch the numbers for 25 years of output
[22:50:37] <robin_sz> whatever, I suspect the money isnt the point
[22:50:44] <ChrisSmol> what was the system cost?
[22:50:55] <Twingy> read the front page
[22:51:07] <Twingy> Cost: $6,200 (After $3,700 Grants)
[22:51:30] <robin_sz> so 10K
[22:52:09] <Twingy> I paid $6200, I already got my grant money
[22:52:22] <ChrisSmol> so 3% return (ignoring subsidies on capital purchases, assuming 5 kWh a day is typical)
[22:52:25] <robin_sz> anyway, I presume you are doing it for fun, not money
[22:52:32] <Twingy> both actually
[22:52:48] <Twingy> you should read my installation notes page
[22:52:51] <Twingy> discusses the economics
[22:53:07] <robin_sz> cash wise, investing it in a bank account would be better, but little fun
[22:53:32] <Twingy> I'll see a 2x return on the money in 25 years (if I were to live here that long)
[22:53:49] <Twingy> so yea, about a 3% return
[22:54:00] <Twingy> 1.03 ^ 25
[22:54:02] <ChrisSmol> yes
[22:54:29] <Twingy> after I add 2 more panels and push the inverter closer to its capacity
[22:54:38] <Twingy> it'll be closer to 4
[22:54:45] <ChrisSmol> i looked into solar for a while. economics-wise, it didn't make sense. especially here in maryland.
[22:54:52] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:54:55] <Twingy> * Twingy lives in maryland
[22:55:12] <Twingy> doesn't make sense unless you leverage grant money
[22:55:14] <robin_sz> the energy used in making the cells makes it a dubious "green" option also
[22:55:22] <ChrisSmol> bingo
[22:55:33] <robin_sz> Personally, I think solar heating is the way to go
[22:55:36] <Twingy> the energy that goes into making them is typically half their lifetime output
[22:55:42] <ChrisSmol> ouch
[22:55:49] <robin_sz> assuming they last as long as you hope they last
[22:55:57] <Twingy> my water heating costs like $10/mo
[22:56:05] <Twingy> doesn't really make sense for me
[22:56:27] <ChrisSmol> solar heating makes a lot of sense, direct use of solar energy bypasses low efficency conversions
[22:56:34] <robin_sz> you heat your hoem for $10 a month?
[22:56:41] <robin_sz> coo. must be warm in maryland
[22:56:48] <ChrisSmol> not today
[22:56:54] <Twingy> he's talking water heater
[22:57:04] <Twingy> solar water heater
[22:57:17] <Twingy> another grant funded project
[22:57:18] <ChrisSmol> lately i have been considering a geothermal heat pump
[22:57:21] <robin_sz> I said "solar heating" ...
[22:57:37] <robin_sz> ChrisSmol, yeah, we thought of that too as we have the acreage to do it
[22:57:54] <Twingy> with what, a radiator?
[22:58:03] <robin_sz> ChrisSmol, we were thinking of the "brine trench" mehtod
[22:58:18] <ChrisSmol> we have a traditional heat pump now, which i don't think is terribly useful here in north central maryland
[22:58:33] <ChrisSmol> all electric house here. even the well pump ;-)
[22:58:38] <Twingy> * Twingy is in harford county, MD
[22:58:53] <ChrisSmol> * ChrisSmol is in carroll county
[22:59:04] <Twingy> work for uncle sam?
[22:59:09] <ChrisSmol> nope
[22:59:29] <ChrisSmol> well, i do for the first 5 months of the year...
[23:00:05] <robin_sz> Twingy, trench about 200m long, 1m wide, pass chilled brine down a pipe, comes out the other end of the trench at close to 10 degrees ... heat pump the heat out, send it round again
[23:00:38] <robin_sz> ok, so a lump of your field ends up cool ... stuff happens
[23:00:37] <ChrisSmol> nifty
[23:00:51] <ChrisSmol> how deep?
[23:00:58] <robin_sz> 0.5m
[23:00:59] <robin_sz> no more
[23:01:14] <ChrisSmol> no advantage to going down further i guess
[23:01:23] <robin_sz> you need to get as much area as you can, not too deep or its insultated from the sun etc above
[23:01:45] <ChrisSmol> aha. i would have thought deep to get more heat from the interior of the earth
[23:02:11] <Twingy> how much energy goes into digging to the center of the earth? :)
[23:02:38] <ChrisSmol> fortunately conduction helps us there
[23:03:09] <ChrisSmol> i was thinking deeper for more insulation from the cold air above
[23:03:39] <ChrisSmol> the 72% bge rate hike has prompted me to put CFL lights everywhere i can.
[23:06:17] <robin_sz> ChrisSmol, http://www.geothermie.de/oberflaechennahe/description_of_ground_source_typ.htm
[23:06:55] <robin_sz> ChrisSmol, you could be right ... deeper maybe better
[23:07:53] <ChrisSmol> aha, but it is verey deep, 15-20 meters
[23:08:23] <ChrisSmol> according to this article
[23:09:54] <ChrisSmol> so based on the 1995 pricing, about $10k for a system
[23:10:34] <robin_sz> we'd seen a surface trench type installation, so I hadnt figured on the deep bore idea
[23:10:50] <ChrisSmol> wonder what the oeprating costs are
[23:12:12] <ChrisSmol> need to do something, considering these higher electric rates
[23:12:22] <ChrisSmol> and i don't like to wear sweaters ;-)
[23:14:50] <ChrisSmol> anyway, emc related... i finally ordered the steppers and motor mounts and stuff today
[23:15:45] <skunkworks> we keep the house at 65deg. We go through less than 500 gallons of propane a winter here in WI.
[23:16:15] <ChrisSmol> my wife would like to get propane so she could get a gas stove
[23:16:18] <ChrisSmol> what do you pay per gallon?
[23:16:32] <skunkworks> I don't know - the wife takes care of it :)
[23:16:36] <ChrisSmol> we're unfortunately a few miles past where natural gas pipes run
[23:16:41] <skunkworks> same here
[23:16:57] <ChrisSmol> although gas makes me nervous
[23:17:44] <skunkworks> according to the profesionals - My house should have blown up by now (installed my own furnace and air)
[23:17:48] <ChrisSmol> heh
[23:18:03] <ChrisSmol> a few years ago there was an explosion at a house in westminster. it was vacant. there was a gas leak, and then a spark
[23:18:14] <ChrisSmol> destroyed that house, and damaged nearby homes
[23:18:44] <skunkworks> well - I don't have any close neighbors :)
[23:19:48] <ChrisSmol> heh
[23:19:51] <ChrisSmol> not for long, anyway
[23:23:44] <skunkworks> $1.59
[23:24:45] <skunkworks> per gallon
[23:25:10] <ChrisSmol> hard to estimate how much of our electric is house and water heating
[23:25:33] <ChrisSmol> but a WI winter should be a lot worse than a MD winter ;-)
[23:26:10] <skunkworks> it has been pretty mild for the last few years
[23:26:11] <skunkworks> it seems
[23:27:57] <robin_sz> skunkworks, gas is easy if you follow good practice and take care
[23:31:26] <skunkworks> right >it't not rocket science< :)
[23:38:27] <robin_sz> quite
[23:38:56] <robin_sz> infact, the guy who came to hook up our supply remarked on how neat the install was
[23:40:01] <robin_sz> all gas pipes marked, where it goes through a wall there is 12mm clearance and a plastic piper liner in the hole etc etc
[23:41:20] <robin_sz> reminds me, must hook the new factory up with piped weld gas.
[23:41:44] <robin_sz> no more silly bottles on the back of MIG sets for me
[23:41:51] <skunkworks> cool
[23:43:06] <robin_sz> must find an old propane bottle to use as a buffer
[23:43:56] <skunkworks> how many different mixes do you use?
[23:44:02] <robin_sz> mainly 1 :)
[23:44:10] <skunkworks> then that works :)
[23:44:26] <robin_sz> 5% co2, 2% 02, 93% ar
[23:44:43] <tomp> hello all
[23:44:43] <skunkworks> oh - expensive
[23:44:48] <robin_sz> nah cheap
[23:44:56] <robin_sz> £12 a bottle