#emc | Logs for 2006-11-17

[00:00:17] <Jymmmm> but the link to the pdf is 404 now. Though I do have a copy of the pdf locally.
[00:06:45] <Jymmmm> CHEAP-ENC V1.0 GNU/GPL (C) 2005 Lloyd Godsey. 2.00",
[00:06:46] <Jymmmm> 8bit PWM, Tach, 45/90/180 Sync. Print at 2450 DPI or 25400 DPI.
[00:17:32] <Jymmmm> Still $14K USD, and only 65W... http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/xy.htm
[00:18:03] <robin_sz> ick
[00:18:05] <Jymmmm> 24x48 are VERY VERY hard to come by for this price.
[00:18:21] <robin_sz> that device is not for sale is it?
[00:18:29] <Jymmmm> robin_sz Yeah, I'd expect at least 100W
[00:18:35] <Jymmmm> it is, and it's a KIT too
[00:18:41] <robin_sz> it looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen
[00:18:58] <robin_sz> high voltages on the tube ...
[00:19:00] <Jymmmm> He's been selling laser tubes and PS for a few years now
[00:19:03] <robin_sz> exposed class 4 laser beam ...
[00:19:08] <robin_sz> hes an idiot then
[00:19:32] <robin_sz> that is just so dangerous ...
[00:19:36] <Jymmmm> oh you should have seen his other 4x8 table... now THAT's scarry... even the 48" tube was FULLY exposed
[00:19:46] <robin_sz> seriously braindead
[00:19:56] <robin_sz> you might do it at home, inyour shed
[00:19:58] <robin_sz> but to sell it?
[00:20:02] <Jymmmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/XY/RasterVector/PIC00001.JPG
[00:20:16] <Jymmmm> thought that is his 24' x 48"
[00:20:32] <Jymmmm> 24 inch
[00:20:40] <Jymmmm> robin_sz that's why it's sold as a KIT
[00:21:16] <Jymmmm> semi releases him from a lot of liability
[00:21:22] <robin_sz> I doubt that will save him from product liability suits
[00:21:29] <robin_sz> but not all ...
[00:21:34] <Jymmmm> yeah
[00:22:01] <robin_sz> direct exposure to class IV co2 like that .. well, goodby retina
[00:22:06] <Jymmmm> But, it does make for easier maintance being a kit (i would think) instead of a closed propritary system
[00:22:30] <Jymmmm> they added a SS enclsure to the kit
[00:22:41] <Jymmmm> see lower in the page I linked
[00:22:42] <robin_sz> thank $deity for that
[00:23:01] <Jymmmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/XY/Top%20Cover/PIC00001.JPG
[00:23:08] <robin_sz> I would have thought propreiatary was easier maint ...
[00:23:09] <Jymmmm> looks sharp being SS
[00:23:19] <robin_sz> just phone the service technician
[00:23:39] <Jymmmm> Well, epilog charges $1200 for a refilled tube, doens't include the matched PS either.
[00:24:04] <robin_sz> coo
[00:24:04] <Jymmmm> Universla charges $900 for a matched refilled tube and PS
[00:24:23] <robin_sz> I have a nice spare tube and PSU here ... too big for you though ;)
[00:24:40] <Jymmmm> Yeah, need 120VAC @ 15A
[00:25:03] <robin_sz> I think the blower motor for the main device in the PSU draws more than that
[00:25:16] <Jymmmm> WEll, that would be on a seperate circuit
[00:25:25] <Jymmmm> along with the PC
[00:25:38] <Jymmmm> if necessary
[00:26:27] <robin_sz> mine draws about 30kw .. a bit big for you ;)
[00:26:40] <Jymmmm> you mean the exhaust blower, or air assist?
[00:27:00] <robin_sz> the coolign blower for tha PSU is more than 15a on mine ;)
[00:27:14] <Jymmmm> ah, this one is water cooled
[00:27:41] <robin_sz> ah right ...
[00:27:51] <robin_sz> I have a watercooled YAG laser
[00:28:08] <robin_sz> but again ... its not small ;)
[00:28:32] <Jymmmm> I really have no REAL desire to cut metal (maybe thin brass,etc) with a laser, so ~100 W I'd be happy with
[00:28:51] <robin_sz> bras is really really difficult to cut with a laser
[00:28:57] <robin_sz> brass
[00:29:12] <Jymmmm> just artistic metal work, not functional
[00:29:23] <robin_sz> whats the main metal in brass?
[00:29:23] <Jymmmm> is what I'm saying.
[00:30:10] <robin_sz> hint: begins with C
[00:30:19] <Jymmmm> Cesium!!!!! lol
[00:30:30] <robin_sz> mmm .... close
[00:30:41] <Jymmmm> Cobolt?
[00:30:43] <robin_sz> copper
[00:31:08] <Jymmmm> Well, I meant with ANY laser CO2/Yag, etc
[00:31:10] <robin_sz> and guess what metal they use for the mirrors in really really big CO2 lasers?
[00:31:25] <Jymmmm> acrylic ones!
[00:32:43] <robin_sz> and guess what metal they use for the final output nozzel in industrial lasers?
[00:33:10] <robin_sz> copper is pretty much a total reflector for 10um
[00:33:10] <Jymmmm> fools gold
[00:33:41] <robin_sz> very hard to make any impression on it ... and you may well damage your output coupler trying ...
[00:33:46] <Jymmmm> Do you know why a laser is REALLY appealing to me?
[00:34:10] <robin_sz> mmmm .... the smell of buring wood?
[00:34:17] <Jymmmm> the prep/finish work needed.
[00:34:39] <robin_sz> on acryllic?
[00:34:50] <Jymmmm> for acrylic... it'll even polish the edges for you
[00:34:55] <robin_sz> absolutely
[00:35:00] <Jymmmm> that's a HUGE timesaver
[00:35:01] <robin_sz> it is very very good
[00:35:21] <robin_sz> the 450w ferranti I had did GREAT acrylic
[00:35:37] <robin_sz> one word of warning ... the fumes
[00:35:38] <Jymmmm> even wood too... no deburing
[00:35:51] <Jymmmm> oh yeah, already looked into activated charcoal
[00:35:54] <robin_sz> acrylic is horrible fumes
[00:36:10] <robin_sz> it stinks and it coats everything ...
[00:36:17] <robin_sz> slides .. screws ...
[00:36:25] <robin_sz> lenses
[00:36:25] <Jymmmm> a few 5 gal buckets daisy chained together filled with activated charcoal and water
[00:36:51] <robin_sz> just vent it out of the roof :)
[00:37:06] <robin_sz> but ... you'll find it soon coats the inside of the enclosure
[00:37:09] <Jymmmm> Na, I already saw and smelt that setup in person.
[00:37:37] <robin_sz> wait for a few hundred hours of use
[00:37:41] <Jymmmm> lol
[00:38:01] <robin_sz> blew a bulb onthe YAG yesterday ...
[00:38:11] <robin_sz> that was a mess
[00:38:15] <Jymmmm> Yeah, I really have been doing my home work, even the math on the exhaust system, plumbing etc.
[00:38:28] <robin_sz> broken glass in the water systems etc
[00:38:37] <Jymmmm> now if I can only get the pocket book to where the homework is, we would be in business.
[00:38:44] <Jymmmm> ouch.
[00:38:57] <robin_sz> it was only 4 weeks old
[00:39:03] <Jymmmm> double ouch.
[00:39:07] <robin_sz> less than 300 hours on it
[00:39:19] <Jymmmm> whats the avg life on that?
[00:39:23] <robin_sz> 1000hrs
[00:39:29] <robin_sz> 3 months
[00:39:37] <Jymmmm> sounds like a defect - dirt
[00:39:41] <robin_sz> yeah ...
[00:39:48] <robin_sz> glass errosion
[00:39:54] <Jymmmm> really?
[00:39:56] <robin_sz> uh huh
[00:40:07] <Jymmmm> I never knew that could happen.
[00:40:14] <robin_sz> the arc gradually eats away the glass wall of the tube ...
[00:40:21] <Jymmmm> maybe shitty tempering of the envelope, but...
[00:40:35] <robin_sz> goes chocolae brown near the cathode
[00:40:46] <robin_sz> eventually it gets thin and pops
[00:40:54] <Jymmmm> good to know... note to self: Enclose tube in explsion prrof cabinet
[00:41:05] <robin_sz> yip
[00:41:32] <robin_sz> so .. lamps cost £125 ...
[00:41:38] <robin_sz> last 1000hrs
[00:41:43] <robin_sz> at 16kw
[00:42:08] <robin_sz> oh thats a pair, 8kw
[00:42:56] <robin_sz> so it will use £800 in electricity in its life ...
[00:43:13] <robin_sz> whats that? $1200?
[00:43:27] <robin_sz> plus ... the cooling
[00:43:42] <robin_sz> thats about 50% efficient
[00:44:02] <robin_sz> so $1800 to run the device for 1000 hrs
[00:44:52] <robin_sz> so the cost of the lamp is minimal compared to the cost of the power to run it
[02:16:36] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[02:16:36] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-11-17.txt
[02:38:48] <skunkworks> so running 80v into the big servos gives me a non load rpm of about 500rpm.
[02:40:28] <skunkworks> it needs to be bolted down for testing :) - thats all I have to say about that ;)
[02:49:59] <Jymmmm> wuss!
[03:01:16] <skunkworks> can't deney the laws of physics
[03:07:33] <skunkworks> these things are monsters - at 10% of 80v you can't stop the shaft. (around 50rpm)
[03:13:06] <Jymmmm> wuss!
[03:18:32] <skunkworks> these where direct coupled to 2tpi ball screws - now they will be coupled to 3tpi ball screws
[03:18:48] <skunkworks> I'm excited
[03:20:19] <jmk-vm03> skunkworks, if I did the math right, 20A in those motors = 22 foot lbs
[03:20:32] <jmk-vm03> = 4325 oz-in
[03:22:34] <skunkworks> the tag says 17ft-lbs at 16.2 amps stalled - how did you calculate it? close
[03:22:44] <skunkworks> did you calculate it from the tag?
[03:22:50] <jmk-vm03> 80V * 20A = 1600 watts
[03:22:56] <skunkworks> ah
[03:23:13] <jmk-vm03> 1600 watts / 746 watts per hp = 2.144 horsepower
[03:23:48] <jmk-vm03> 2.144 HP * 5252 (magic number) / 500 rpm = 22.52 ft lbs
[03:24:08] <jmk-vm03> if you repeat the calcs with 16.2A, you should get 17 ftlbs
[03:24:42] <skunkworks> cool. They have a lot of rotational inertia. but they are going to be hooked to a beast anyways. not worried.
[03:24:47] <jmk-vm03> I got 18.24, but that's in the ballpark
[03:24:53] <skunkworks> yes
[03:24:56] <jmk-vm03> the calculations assume 100% effeciency, etc
[03:25:06] <skunkworks> and the price was right ;)
[03:25:24] <jmk-vm03> 500 rpm / 3 tpi = 166 inches/minute
[03:26:01] <skunkworks> the machine used to have a max speed of 150 ipm
[03:26:38] <jmk-vm03> so a pretty good match
[03:26:47] <skunkworks> around 1000 rpm would be great - the spec on the servo is 1200 rpm max
[03:27:00] <jmk-vm03> just use more voltage
[03:27:03] <skunkworks> yep
[03:27:43] <skunkworks> did I say I was excited?
[03:27:48] <jmk-vm03> ;-)
[03:30:04] <skunkworks> the encoder should be mounted tomorrow night.
[03:30:30] <skunkworks> these things have 6 brushes
[03:31:11] <skunkworks> we figured that is why the machine was scrapped - 2 of the sevos had hung up brushes.
[03:31:42] <jmk-vm03> 6 brushes means a high pole count motor - low speed and high torque
[03:31:47] <jmk-vm03> and the numbers prove it
[03:31:52] <skunkworks> yes
[03:32:11] <jmk-vm03> gotta reboot this vm, just installed the RT kernel...
[08:44:15] <me1234> exit
[08:44:19] <me1234> quit
[09:25:10] <Dallur> good morning
[09:25:51] <alex_joni> morning earl
[09:33:08] <anonimasu> morning
[09:40:04] <ValarQ> morning folks
[09:40:21] <anonimasu> morning
[11:00:06] <Didier> hello everybody
[11:11:27] <Didier> how to pass from joint to axis ?
[11:14:21] <Didier> nobody ?
[11:16:27] <Bo^Dick> how do you mean?
[11:21:10] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[13:34:32] <Didier> hello everybody
[13:34:39] <Didier> i need help
[13:36:47] <Dallur> what do you need help with ?
[13:37:33] <Didier> i have 3 motors on my desk
[13:37:51] <Didier> i want to do XXY with gantryskin.c
[13:38:31] <Didier> on axis gui, i see 0 1 2, i home all this axis
[13:38:50] <Didier> i not change to world view
[13:38:57] <Didier> why ?
[13:39:24] <Dallur> I'm afraid I can't be of much help, when I set up my gantry I used a single axis and just slaved to outputs to it
[13:39:34] <Dallur> err two outputs
[13:39:45] <alex_joni> axis doesn't do that
[13:39:52] <alex_joni> tkemc can allow that
[13:40:22] <Dallur> does not matter which UI, you can do it in HAL
[13:40:39] <Dallur> just hook to pins up to the same signal
[13:40:50] <Dallur> and invert one of them so both motors drive in same direction
[13:41:17] <anonimasu> why not wire one motor inverse?
[13:41:46] <Didier> then axis could'nt be use for gantry
[13:41:53] <Dallur> well that would depend on what kind of motors you are using, steppers or servos or such but you can do that aswell
[13:42:06] <Didier> i have servo
[13:42:18] <Didier> i haven't found an example
[13:42:44] <Dallur> dallur-thc is my config, I think it is in the 2.1 samples tree at the moment
[13:43:18] <anonimasu> Dallur: you are building a plasma table right?
[13:43:26] <anonimasu> how fast does it need to go?
[13:43:27] <Dallur> yup
[13:43:35] <Dallur> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
[13:44:14] <Dallur> is where I put all my current config, im still working on improvements so it's not a "production" setup but you can look at the config for examples
[13:44:40] <anonimasu> hm, so how fast are you running?
[13:44:53] <alex_joni> Dallur: he didn't mean that
[13:44:57] <alex_joni> he is using special kins
[13:44:58] <Dallur> I have gone up to about 15meters per minute
[13:45:06] <alex_joni> and when the emc2 GUI starts up it is in joint view
[13:45:14] <anonimasu> how fast do you need to go? was rather what I were wondering about
[13:45:18] <Dallur> alex: sorry
[13:45:20] <alex_joni> after homing he can switch to world view (XYZ coordinates)
[13:45:30] <alex_joni> but afaik only tkemc knows how to switch
[13:45:54] <Didier> well received alex : only tkemc
[13:46:08] <alex_joni> AXIS should be extended to do that..
[13:46:21] <alex_joni> but I don't know anyone with non-trivkins machines around
[13:46:26] <Didier> it's a pity, axis is more easy...
[13:46:35] <alex_joni> so there's not much drivingforce behind this
[13:46:41] <Didier> i could do that with a little help
[13:47:13] <alex_joni> I don't know any python, else I would have tried already
[13:47:25] <alex_joni> the emc-related stuff is pretty trivial
[13:47:37] <anonimasu> Dallur: so, how fast are you cutting with it? lets take when cutting 10mm sheet..
[13:47:39] <Didier> stuff ???
[13:47:41] <alex_joni> I'm not sure how the backplot should react to this change
[13:48:50] <Dallur> anonimasu: I only did a couple of test before dis-assembling everything to coat it and prepair
[13:49:08] <Didier> it could be possible for me to become developper ?
[13:49:44] <anonimasu> Dallur: so you have no clue at all?
[13:49:47] <anonimasu> :/
[13:49:52] <Dallur> anonimasu: but the speed just depends on how powerfull the plasma machine is, the top speed for the table is way higher than the capacity of even 300A machines
[13:50:11] <Dallur> anonimasu: probably around 2m per minute (6ft per minute)
[13:50:15] <anonimasu> I have a 300A machine I'll be building a plasma table with..
[13:50:15] <anonimasu> :)
[13:50:29] <alex_joni> sorry.. lost my irssi somewhere
[13:50:33] <alex_joni> somehow
[13:50:37] <Dallur> anonimasu: Thermal Dynamics or Hypertherm ?
[13:50:38] <anonimasu> going to cut thick stuff..
[13:50:40] <anonimasu> nope..
[13:50:41] <anonimasu> oerlikon
[13:50:48] <alex_joni> hypertherm rulez ;)
[13:50:51] <alex_joni> oerlikon is ok too
[13:51:02] <alex_joni> Dallur: I like SPT ;)
[13:51:03] <Dallur> anonimasu; Nice, only used welders from them, never plasma eqiupment
[13:51:04] <ValarQ> anonimasu: nice!
[13:51:15] <alex_joni> Dallur: from sweden :P
[13:51:24] <Dallur> Alex: nope Iceland
[13:51:42] <alex_joni> http://www.spt.se/
[13:51:48] <alex_joni> I meant SPT is from sweden
[13:51:54] <Didier> Alex : i try with tkemc
[13:52:03] <anonimasu> :)
[13:52:05] <anonimasu> though it
[13:52:11] <anonimasu> I dont need speed..
[13:52:15] <anonimasu> it's for cutting thick stuff..
[13:52:25] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what's thick for you?
[13:52:31] <anonimasu> 30mm..
[13:52:54] <anonimasu> stuff between 1-3mm..
[13:52:59] <alex_joni> you need about 100A for 30mm
[13:53:20] <Dallur> Alex: Never used them, I think there is a store around which sells them and I noticed they use alot of torch stuff from Thermal Dynamics
[13:53:47] <alex_joni> Dallur: we distribute them in romania.. very good machines
[13:54:05] <alex_joni> mostly the 9C http://www.spt.se/sparcin5c_9c_eng.htm
[13:55:01] <anonimasu> wait a sec..
[13:55:30] <anonimasu> it's not oerlokon..
[13:55:31] <anonimasu> it's saf..
[13:55:38] <anonimasu> zip 3.0
[13:55:51] <alex_joni> anonimasu: yuck ;)
[13:55:53] <alex_joni> kidding
[13:56:24] <anonimasu> 40mm.. is doable apparently..
[13:56:23] <anonimasu> heh
[13:56:38] <anonimasu> I might have messed up my amp rating..
[13:57:05] <Dallur> It's all Air Liquide in any case
[13:57:09] <anonimasu> :)
[13:57:09] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:57:17] <Didier> i have tried with tkemc, it's ok / Alex
[13:57:21] <Didier> :)
[13:57:30] <anonimasu> though just a stepper machine..
[13:57:32] <alex_joni> Didier: good
[13:57:45] <alex_joni> Didier: you can run both (tkemc & AXIS) :)
[13:57:53] <Didier> I will code Axis to do this
[13:58:15] <alex_joni> anonimasu: 300A is a _huge_ plasma
[13:58:22] <alex_joni> I've seen a few.. scary
[13:58:24] <Didier> both TKEMC & AXIS ????
[13:58:32] <alex_joni> Didier: why not ;)
[13:58:37] <anonimasu> numbers dosent stick in my head..
[13:58:37] <alex_joni> you can run as many GUIs as you like
[13:58:48] <Didier> at the same time ????
[13:58:48] <alex_joni> anonimasu: 2mx1mx2m
[13:58:59] <alex_joni> Didier: yes, even on different computers
[13:59:06] <anonimasu> this one is pretty alrge.. but not that large
[13:59:22] <anonimasu> not on the same division though :D
[13:59:35] <anonimasu> http://www.weldersworld.com.au/plasma3.jpg
[14:00:04] <anonimasu> the only bad thing is that it isnt a machine torch..
[14:00:36] <Didier> how to do ? DISPLAY = tkemc and next line DISPLAY = axis ?
[14:01:20] <alex_joni> Didier: no, you need to manually run one of them
[14:01:27] <alex_joni> DISPLAY = tkemc
[14:01:29] <alex_joni> then run emc
[14:01:40] <alex_joni> then open a terminal: scripts/emc_environment
[14:01:42] <alex_joni> bin/axis
[14:03:27] <Didier> i have opened emc_environment, and what to do with bin/axis ?
[14:03:35] <alex_joni> execute it
[14:03:56] <alex_joni> I think you need to tell it the ini
[14:04:07] <alex_joni> bin/axis -ini configs/whatever.ini
[14:04:45] <cradek> axis works with kins now
[14:05:12] <anonimasu> :)
[14:05:17] <anonimasu> nice
[14:05:54] <Didier> i need to import the last emc to see it, cradek ?
[14:07:08] <cradek> it's not in emc 2.0
[14:07:25] <cradek> so you need to run the cvs code, or wait for emc 2.1
[14:08:02] <Didier> well i will the last cvs code
[14:08:12] <Didier> try
[14:08:29] <Didier> thanks Alex, thanks Cradek
[14:08:40] <cradek> welcome
[14:08:51] <Didier> talk you later
[14:08:58] <Didier> bye
[14:11:17] <alex_joni> cradek: cool
[14:11:20] <alex_joni> didn't remember that
[14:11:33] <cradek> it's been there for a bit now
[14:11:40] <cradek> off to breakfast...
[14:13:41] <skunkworks> wow - nice work
[14:14:37] <anonimasu> :)
[14:16:10] <skunkworks> <troll>too bad there are so many issues with emc according to paul</troll>
[14:16:21] <alex_joni> hmm.. emc_environment is also part of HEAD only
[14:16:29] <alex_joni> so I wonder if he's running 2.0.x afterall
[14:17:17] <anonimasu> hm, that reminds me of when I ran bdi..
[14:17:25] <anonimasu> mm the issues.
[14:17:30] <skunkworks> :)
[14:20:38] <alex_joni> wonder what I did earlier to lose irssi.. it was still active, but I couldn't get to it
[14:20:55] <anonimasu> ^Z
[14:21:00] <anonimasu> perhaps :)
[14:21:16] <alex_joni> might be . shouldn't fg bring it back then?
[14:21:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:23:53] <anonimasu> I have a scary part to machine
[14:24:29] <anonimasu> the .igs file takes 1.1mb
[14:24:53] <alex_joni> cool
[14:24:58] <alex_joni> anonimasu: alibre is great btw
[14:25:00] <anonimasu> :)
[14:25:04] <alex_joni> the free version is all I need so far
[14:25:25] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[14:25:34] <anonimasu> I found it a bit annoynig when you break a sketch,..
[14:25:40] <anonimasu> that it dosent show you where the error are
[14:33:58] <skunkworks> I have installed it - but have not played with it.
[14:36:09] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/wh1.jpg
[14:36:54] <anonimasu> that's the scary part..
[14:41:29] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[14:46:24] <jepler> skunkworks: it's a strange and twisted man who has time to always check emc2 for compile errors, yet never wishes to contribute anything useful.
[14:53:15] <cradek> jepler: sounds like part of the compile farm to me
[14:53:37] <alex_joni> the brain-dead-compile-farm
[14:53:57] <alex_joni> oh.. missed an i there ;)
[14:54:07] <cradek> haha
[14:54:57] <alex_joni> jepler: it makes me wonder why he even bothers to check it for errors, if it's sure he doesn't plan to use it
[14:55:21] <alex_joni> probably tuxcnc is comig along too easily so he has too much spare time
[14:55:57] <cradek> let's change the subject...
[14:56:07] <cradek> anonimasu: what's that part?
[14:56:13] <alex_joni> seems like a cutting tool
[14:56:15] <alex_joni> for trees
[14:56:22] <anonimasu> alex_joni: pm
[14:57:03] <alex_joni> pm?
[14:57:15] <alex_joni> got it.. big top secret project
[14:57:16] <alex_joni> :D
[14:57:26] <anonimasu> haha
[14:57:40] <alex_joni> cradek: it's for cutting special undercover agents
[14:57:47] <alex_joni> into subatomic particles that can't be traced
[14:57:51] <alex_joni> nor analyzed
[14:58:02] <anonimasu> lol
[14:58:04] <cradek> heh let's be sure to show this to LH: http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/11/16/model-airplane-motor-drives-scooter/
[14:58:33] <anonimasu> I'd rather use a turbine engine ;)
[14:58:37] <anonimasu> thoose tiny ones :D
[14:58:42] <anonimasu> and a huydralic motor..
[14:58:47] <alex_joni> anonimasu: nuclear power
[14:58:50] <alex_joni> cold fusion
[14:58:50] <anonimasu> yep
[14:58:53] <alex_joni> something exciting
[14:59:51] <Dallur> hmm how about anti-matter powered but you use cold fusion to make the antimatter ?
[15:00:21] <alex_joni> Dallur: not interestng unless it also generates an anti-gravitational field, so you don't need the wheels anymore
[15:00:52] <Dallur> alex_joni: Everyone knows anti-gravity impossible, now that's just crazy talk :D
[15:01:31] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/11/16/model-airplane-motor-drives-scooter/
[15:01:58] <anonimasu> :)
[15:02:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[15:02:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice! :D
[15:04:59] <alex_joni> Dallur: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/55826/who_can_explain_this/
[15:09:38] <Dallur> alex_joni: ahh I saw that a while back, and they did try to verify it,, they had some problems
[15:10:37] <Dallur> alex_joni: wait, not I thougth it was the anti-gravity stuff done by that Finn, sorry
[15:11:33] <jepler> Dallur: did you see my recent comments on the "gantry" feature request on sourceforge? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1075625&group_id=6744&atid=356744
[15:11:34] <Dallur> sorry about the spelling everyone, one of my mem chips failed, I removed it and now my work laptop can't keep up with my typing rate and keeps dropping key entries :(
[15:11:49] <Dallur> jepler: sure did, can't wait to test it :D
[15:13:04] <Dallur> jepler: My table is currently in pieces, some parts getting zink coated, others getting nickel plated, and such
[15:13:16] <jepler> Dallur: I see
[15:15:38] <Dallur> I can't wait to see how the Electroless Nickel plating works for all the surfaces, it's the same stuff they plate HDD platters with
[15:18:40] <Dallur> The hardness is way up there and the plating is uniform unlike hard chrome or other active plating methods
[15:19:54] <jepler> Dallur: so the homing sequence I describe in my message sounds like it would work for your machine?
[15:20:26] <jepler> not everything I described is implemented yet
[15:21:55] <Dallur> jepler: it looks like a very good solution for my problem
[15:22:38] <jepler> Dallur: do you currently have a home switch for both sides of the gantry axis?
[15:24:09] <Dallur> jepler: yup, I have seperate home switches for all axis
[15:25:03] <Dallur> jepler: although im replacing all of them due to EM problems, High Freq. really causes problems unless you have PNP/NPN so im switching to inductive PNP
[15:25:55] <Dallur> jepler: Both EM and HF that is, even with shielded cables normal magnetic switches go crazy when the torch comes close
[15:26:17] <jepler> Dallur: luckily I don't have to worry about those details in the software -- I just assume the HAL signals from the switches are reliable.
[15:28:15] <Dallur> jepler: I wonder if using combo limit/home switches would cause any problems with your seq. ?
[15:28:40] <jepler> Dallur: I believe homing already handles that, and I don't see that my changes would affect it
[15:28:56] <Dallur> jepler: ok, just a thought :D
[15:28:58] <jepler> is your final homing move onto the switch a second time? I kinda assumed that in what I wrote
[15:30:15] <Dallur> jepler: I have not done any homing work, I was homing manually because of the gantry problem
[15:31:47] <cradek> morning ray
[15:39:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> has anyone here heard of any EMC user that goes to chalmers?
[15:39:44] <rayh> Hi cradek
[15:39:45] <rayh> chalmers?
[15:39:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> becuase there were a few there that I met today that ran emc :D
[15:40:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the college I go to in Sweden
[15:40:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, rayh, were you looking for something to do with emc and lathes?
[15:41:09] <rayh> That is an upcoming project.
[15:42:03] <rayh> I only know of and have met one EMC user from Sweeden.
[15:42:20] <rayh> I also met two of his kids.
[15:42:32] <SWPadnos> Anders Wallin is in Sweden, isn't he?
[15:42:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah
[15:42:47] <rayh> He engraves some sort of rollers.
[15:42:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not gothenburg though
[16:57:05] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01163779208
[16:57:19] <jepler> "truth table" compiler for emc2
[16:58:02] <SWPadnos> cool!
[16:59:42] <SWPadnos> from the description, can I (correctly) infer that a pin that appears on both the left and right side of the vertical bar is an output, but its state is considered in the evealuation?
[17:00:27] <jepler> yes, that's how it's supposed to work
[17:00:31] <SWPadnos> ok - neato
[17:04:31] <jepler> thanks
[17:05:32] <SWPadnos> how hard do you suppose it would be to make the pin names multi-character (separated by commas or something)?
[17:05:57] <jepler> it probably wouldn't be hard
[17:06:16] <SWPadnos> I guess the lhs would need to be an array of string instead of array of char, and an additional split would be needed (if a comma is found) ...
[17:06:18] <cradek> or use csv from a spreadsheet
[17:06:23] <SWPadnos> (I really need to learn python
[17:06:26] <SWPadnos> )
[17:07:56] <SWPadnos> what does the zip function do?
[17:08:10] <SWPadnos> does that just allow you to iterate over multiple arrays at once?
[17:08:17] <jepler> yes, something like that
[17:08:28] <jepler> >>> zip("abc", "def")
[17:08:28] <jepler> [('a', 'd'), ('b', 'e'), ('c', 'f')]
[17:09:04] <SWPadnos> ok, essentialls splits multiple arrays into a series of ordinates (tuples in programmer-speak, I guess)
[17:09:46] <SWPadnos> it's such a pain to be able to see the syntax easily, but not know what libraries are available
[17:10:19] <jepler> yeah there are a *lot* of useful functions available, but you only learn over time what they are
[17:10:33] <SWPadnos> I'd end up writing my own version of lots of standard stuff, just because I don't know the name of the available library version
[17:10:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:11:13] <jepler> so in this loop, "k" gets the names of each of the left-hand-side items, while v gets the corresponding letter on this rule line: for k, v in zip(self.lhs, lhs):
[17:11:46] <SWPadnos> sure - I got that, just wasn't sure if the parallel iterators were part of the language or done by the zip function
[17:14:10] <SWPadnos> it's funny - I've been working on microcontrollers so long that the first thing that pops into my head is "what can be done to automatically optimize the resulting code?" :)
[17:14:19] <jepler> "I dunno, but I leave it up to gcc"
[17:14:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:14:54] <SWPadnos> I was thinking along the lines of sorting the input cases and doing nested ifs instead of a chain of else if clauses
[17:15:36] <SWPadnos> or build a table of input values and use case statements ...
[17:16:11] <SWPadnos> that's the funny part - you get lots of ugly shit that may run a little faster, but it's mostly unnecessary on modern PCs
[17:17:26] <jepler> check if an output is used on the LHS; if not, eliminate the corresponding local
[17:17:50] <SWPadnos> sure - that would be good
[17:17:52] <jepler> check if a pin is ever tested for an edge; if not, eliminate the corresponding "o_" variable from the instance data
[17:18:41] <SWPadnos> but any sort of analysis like that kind means that you ahve to deal with the "whole thing" as well as individual lines - right now it's basically a filter
[17:18:51] <jepler> yep
[17:32:29] <jepler> * jepler just implemented multi-letter pin names
[17:32:35] <SWPadnos> d00d!
[17:32:53] <jepler> :-P
[17:32:56] <jepler> everything's easy in python
[17:32:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:33:08] <SWPadnos> yeah - if you speak hiss :)
[17:33:49] <jepler> A truth-table file consists of a title line followed by multiple rule lines. Each line is divided into a "left-hand side" and "right-hand side" by the vertical bar character "|". If a side contains whitespace, then it is broken into items separated by whitespace characters. Otherwise, each letter is an item.
[17:33:58] <jepler> On the title line, each item that appears on the right-hand side is an output pin, and each name that appears only on the left-hand side is an input pin. (If it appears on both sides, it is an output pin but its prior value can be used in a rule). All created pins are bits. When multi-letter names are used, "_" should be used in place of "-".
[17:34:23] <SWPadnos> sounds good to me
[17:34:27] <jepler> </new text on the tt2comp page>
[17:38:59] <jepler> is "unchanged" a useful condition to test?
[17:39:39] <SWPadnos> possibly - use an = sign?
[17:39:43] <jepler> yep
[17:40:25] <SWPadnos> yeah - unchanged would give shorthand for !(^ || v)
[17:45:52] <jepler> while I'm at it I'll add !otherpin and =otherpin for the LHS
[17:46:40] <jepler> it's unfortunate that in the column for 'x', '!x' and '!' have different meanings
[17:47:04] <jepler> (one tests the prior value of x and triggers on edges; the other tests the current value of x and never triggers)
[17:47:22] <SWPadnos> hmmm - how do you intend to use/allow =something or !something?
[17:47:45] <jepler> not sure, maybe it's not a good idea
[17:48:04] <skunkworks> jepler: nice work.
[17:48:10] <jepler> lunchtime!
[17:48:35] <skunkworks> just got kfc. weak moment
[17:49:39] <SWPadnos> the ! gives you "either edge" (and = gives the opposite, "no edge"), ^ and v give you specific edges, and 1 / 0 give you "present value comparisons" - I thikn that's a complete set
[17:49:49] <SWPadnos> heh - my kfc moment was last night ;)
[17:50:10] <SWPadnos> those crispy chickens are pretty darned tasty about once every few years
[17:50:48] <skunkworks> yes - more like once every 2 months
[17:50:53] <skunkworks> look at this
[17:50:54] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4849
[17:51:11] <skunkworks> we should get him to update this tread with his experience with emc2
[17:52:03] <skunkworks> thread even
[17:58:32] <skunkworks> Holy crap. He wire wrapped the laser control board
[18:09:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> wire wrap... tasty
[18:15:38] <skunkworks> I just don't understand wire wraping
[18:15:44] <skunkworks> wrapping
[18:16:04] <SWPadnos> before your time?
[18:16:08] <skunkworks> Yes.
[18:16:20] <skunkworks> Seems like a pain in the a$$
[18:16:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> before mine too
[18:16:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> definetly
[18:16:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[18:16:35] <SWPadnos> it's an odd technique, but it worked pretty well once you got good at it (which I never did)
[18:16:51] <SWPadnos> a friend of mine built an entire computer (TRS-80 compatible) using wire wrap
[18:16:57] <SWPadnos> Z-80 based
[18:17:24] <SWPadnos> we were happy to have etchant available at Radio Shack back in those days :)
[18:17:28] <skunkworks> the big K&T has I don't know how many cards in it maybe 500.. The back plane is all wirewrapped
[18:18:08] <skunkworks> * skunkworks shivers
[18:18:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> :|
[18:18:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I can't imagine using WW as a production technique, unless you need the ability to customize the products
[18:20:37] <skunkworks> I think these where pretty low producion - it is like a GE model 1 or something like that ;)
[18:23:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, any idea why doing an SCP from two fast machines only goes at 1mib/s?
[18:23:27] <SWPadnos> because SCP is doubly inefficient
[18:23:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cpu use is low on both
[18:24:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, you mean that it's so inefficient becuase it sends lots of "uneeded" packets and waits and so on?
[18:24:13] <SWPadnos> if you're using ssh as the connection, you end up with some weird encrypt / encode / re-encrypt / re-encode <-> transfer <-> then undo it all at the other end
[18:24:41] <SWPadnos> at least there was a problem of that sort with puTTY and PSCP - I'm not sure it's a generic problem
[18:24:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the cpu is not even close to being the bottleneck
[18:25:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and this is both win-lin and lin-lin
[18:25:25] <SWPadnos> no, but the amount of data transferred over the network is much higher than the amount of actual information
[18:25:56] <SWPadnos> it may do base64 encoding (possibly more than once), so you send 8 bits on the wire for every 6 bits of source data ...
[18:26:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm only using around 15% of the potential bandwidth (100mbit)
[18:26:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> basically I can't seem to find the bottleneck
[18:26:36] <SWPadnos> well, I dunno, but when I did the same thing on my 100mbit LAN, I found that things were significantly faster using FTP :)
[18:26:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> do you know if there is an intentional max bandwidth limit in openssh server?
[18:26:54] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[18:27:03] <SWPadnos> well, I know that I don't know :)
[18:27:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which ftp server did you use?
[18:27:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok :)
[18:27:19] <SWPadnos> I don't remember
[18:27:37] <SWPadnos> I may have done it as http transfers, come to think of it
[18:27:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:33:51] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I almost flipped one of those huge servos onto the floor... oops.
[18:34:15] <skunkworks> * skunkworks needs to bolt it down for testing
[18:40:10] <SWPadnos> yes, they do tend to jump around a bit
[19:08:03] <jepler> SWPadnos: for instance, you can get o=a xor b with this: ab|o / - =a|1
[19:08:45] <anonimasu> hi
[19:09:31] <SWPadnos> sort of - that won't set to 0 for b != !a (without another line anyway)
[19:11:06] <jepler> er, yes
[19:11:16] <jepler> then I guess it's two lines with or without =<name>
[19:11:35] <SWPadnos> as shorthand, it can reduce the number of lines needed by half, since it allows you to do the cases of both=0 and both=1 at the same time (or !=, as the case may be)
[19:11:44] <SWPadnos> (both inputs, that is)
[19:12:46] <SWPadnos> hmm - the order of the rules is important. consider this:
[19:13:05] <SWPadnos> ab|0 / 10|1 / 01|1 / --|0
[19:13:32] <SWPadnos> that's xor, assuming that wither of the two earlier rules would prevent the last rule from being evaluated
[19:13:35] <SWPadnos> s/wither/either/
[19:13:57] <SWPadnos> oops, and assuming that I learn to spell 'o' :)
[19:14:08] <jepler> When an output value is set multiple times, the assignment in the last matching rule takes precedence,
[19:14:17] <jepler> so you'd put the -- rule first
[19:14:20] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:14:42] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking like C "break", but you can't do that, since several outputs may be changed - OK
[19:14:52] <SWPadnos> err - C case with break ...
[19:15:36] <jepler> a b |o
[19:15:35] <jepler> - - |0
[19:15:35] <jepler> - !a|1
[19:15:46] <jepler> so here's the version using !<var>
[19:15:54] <SWPadnos> yep - saves one line
[19:16:26] <anonimasu> 5
[19:16:36] <SWPadnos> 1
[19:17:04] <jepler> I'm not sure it's clearer, and I'd rather have clear than compact
[19:17:32] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was trying to figure out whether the added complexity of the syntax helps much
[19:17:46] <SWPadnos> I suppose it would if you had a non-trivial truth table, with more than 2 inputs
[19:18:37] <jepler> d clk|q
[19:18:37] <jepler> - v |d
[19:18:47] <jepler> is this the truth table for a D flip-flop?
[19:19:09] <SWPadnos> actually, thinking about it at the HAL level, the = or ! syntax would be useful for xx-invert pins
[19:19:15] <SWPadnos> I think so
[19:19:50] <SWPadnos> since by default q will retain its previous state
[19:20:18] <SWPadnos> (if you coded it in VHDL, you'd need to explicitly reassign q to its current value :) )
[19:30:43] <jepler> do you think that output values should not be "held" by default?
[19:32:57] <SWPadnos> no
[19:53:05] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[19:53:45] <SWPadnos> what a strange error: Closing Link: (Connection Timed Out)
[19:54:22] <SWPadnos> apparently Windows only provides the loopback address when a network card has a link
[19:54:35] <SWPadnos> (that error came up when I accidentally unplugged my switch)
[19:54:39] <skunkworks> sounds like something windows would do
[19:54:42] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:16:11] <Rugludall> Rugludall is now known as Rugludallur
[20:17:35] <Rugludallur> Anonimasu, I checked some of my logs for the cutting speed and for 10mm steel the cutting speed is 1.3m per minute
[20:19:55] <Rugludallur> Anonimasu: I max out at 25mm @ 0.4m per second
[20:20:55] <Rugludallur> Anonimasu: and at the other end I can cut 3mm plate at 7m per second
[20:21:13] <Rugludallur> Anonimasu: replace second with minute (bonks self on head)
[20:32:36] <alex_joni> /away bbl
[20:38:40] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[21:20:48] <alex_joni> hi all
[21:21:21] <skunkworks> hi alex
[21:21:27] <alex_joni> hey samco
[21:22:00] <skunkworks> only 1 more hour
[21:23:58] <skunkworks> Tonight I _bolt_ the servo down and play with it closed loop.
[21:25:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:26:21] <alex_joni> skunkworks: nice
[21:27:12] <skunkworks> alex_joni: big plans for the weekend?
[21:27:16] <alex_joni> yeah..
[21:27:21] <alex_joni> about 20h worth of sleep
[21:27:29] <alex_joni> I hope at least
[21:27:33] <skunkworks> sounds like a plan
[21:27:59] <alex_joni> yeah, sure does
[21:28:10] <alex_joni> my gf has plans for tomorrow morning (yay)
[21:28:13] <alex_joni> so I can sleep late
[21:29:36] <skunkworks> Nice.
[21:29:59] <skunkworks> wife is having the girls over tonight - so after cooking I am probably free.
[21:33:13] <alex_joni> that's nice ;)
[21:35:11] <alex_joni> think I'll start implementing that plan
[21:35:16] <alex_joni> night all :)
[21:36:07] <skunkworks> Night
[21:36:32] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: any progress on the 3 phase servo drive?
[21:37:06] <anonimasu> iab
[21:37:15] <anonimasu> rugdallur: Thanks, if you do read the logs! :)
[21:37:25] <anonimasu> robin_sz: are you awake?
[21:37:29] <LawrenceG> naw... working on the dc drive at the moment.... am getting spurious resets... driving me up the wall
[21:37:58] <skunkworks> dc drive?
[21:38:45] <LawrenceG> I thought it was a software problem in the brush servo drive, but it looks like hardware... I see the 5v supply spiking down enough to reset the micro
[21:39:34] <skunkworks> yeck. What do you use for current limiting?
[21:40:29] <LawrenceG> the current limit is done in the output driver chip... supply 0-5v and you get 0 to 7 amp current limit
[21:40:50] <skunkworks> aww that is cheating
[21:40:57] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:42:00] <LawrenceG> yup... I actually use the direction signal to turn the drive full + or full - drive and use the current limit to set the output amplitude, so it always runs in controlled current mode
[21:45:23] <LawrenceG> rats... print is confused after power failures here.... got to power down....
[22:02:06] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: would you want he free wheeling diodes to bypass the sense resister - so that back emf doesn't spike accross the resister?
[23:00:37] <robin_sz> anonimasu, MEEEPPPPP!
[23:11:32] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:53:48] <jmkasunich> jepler: the truth table thing is very cool
[23:54:25] <jmkasunich> like a minimalist version of ladder logic
[23:56:12] <cradek> hi jmk
[23:56:30] <jmkasunich> hi