#emc | Logs for 2006-11-16

[00:17:58] <Jymmm> hey SWPadnos
[00:18:16] <SWPadnos> hi
[00:18:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos how goes it?
[00:18:35] <SWPadnos> it goes ok
[00:18:58] <Jymmm> I hear ya...
[00:19:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:19:16] <Jymmm> I REALLY ahve to stop piling more on my plate.
[00:19:41] <Jymmm> Working on the idea of a True RNG
[00:19:48] <SWPadnos> I' ve found that it's very annoying to be in a place where you have no (or very expensive) cell service, and also no (or very bad) internet access
[00:19:54] <SWPadnos> good luck :)
[00:20:10] <SWPadnos> a diode and a high frequency counter can help with that
[00:20:14] <ChrisSmol> so my micro mill arrived today
[00:20:36] <SWPadnos> cool. what kind?
[00:21:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Yeah, I'm thinking RFI/EMI, but four systems all againest a reference and the difference between them.
[00:22:21] <SWPadnos> if one device isn't random, then four aren't either
[00:22:39] <SWPadnos> you really don't want to get into the math of "true" randomness
[00:22:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Well, to help reduce any bias
[00:22:54] <skunkworks> rnd(10)
[00:23:07] <skunkworks> :)
[00:23:10] <SWPadnos> just write a program in VB :)
[00:23:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos at least until I have my own space shuttle and can count the radiation exposure of the sun the vacuum of space.
[00:23:55] <SWPadnos> err - yeah. on that note, I actually don't really have any time here
[00:23:58] <SWPadnos> see you later :)
[00:24:05] <Jymmm> lol
[00:24:14] <SWPadnos> I suppose I shouldn't have logged on at all :(
[00:24:23] <Jymmm> no biggy
[00:24:33] <Jymmm> wasn't asking for help
[00:29:21] <ChrisSmol> the harbor freight 47158
[00:32:40] <Jymmm> how do you like it thus far?
[00:32:57] <Jymmm> and it's $259.99 at the moment
[00:33:27] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47158
[00:33:30] <ChrisSmol> yes, i got it on sale
[00:33:53] <ChrisSmol> i just uncrated it and set it up, ran the motor and didn't do much else yet, just checked it out.
[00:34:14] <ChrisSmol> i am going to need to figure out some clever way of holding the pieces i want to machine
[00:34:21] <Jymmm> WHAT?! No materpieces being created within 3.2 minutes of receiveing it?!
[00:34:24] <ChrisSmol> not sure a vise is going to work
[00:34:26] <ChrisSmol> heh
[00:34:36] <Jymmm> bbiab foodage
[00:34:40] <ChrisSmol> yeah, i made a slot in piece of plastic.
[00:34:49] <ChrisSmol> let me hang it on the wall :-)
[01:45:36] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Makefile.inc.in config.h.in configure configure.in): merge the new_cl_branch: a port of classicladder 0.7.100 to emc2's hal
[01:45:44] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/projects_examples/ (example.hal panel.vcp vcp.hal example.clp): merge the new_cl_branch: a port of classicladder 0.7.100 to emc2's hal
[01:47:36] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2XQ97XHjVw&eurl=
[01:47:59] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: maybe that was newsworthy
[01:48:06] <cradek> heh
[01:48:21] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot3_log.txt
[01:48:22] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[01:48:22] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5_log.txt
[01:48:29] <cradek> ouch
[01:49:09] <cradek> checking for GTK... ./configure: line 11015: syntax error: unexpected end of file
[01:49:17] <cradek> that's a new one
[01:50:13] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot3_log.txt
[01:50:19] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5_log.txt
[01:50:20] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[01:53:03] <jepler> oh f****
[01:53:09] <jepler> I must have screwed something up
[01:53:11] <jepler> but I tested it!
[01:54:34] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/configure: rebuild
[02:04:45] <jepler> bbl .. I hope it works now
[02:06:18] <cradek> jepler: works for me
[02:10:48] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[02:18:23] <CIA-5> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: remove unused stuff to fix bdi-live build
[02:20:02] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[02:32:16] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[02:35:29] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[02:37:45] <cradek> argh
[02:39:38] <cradek> wonder if bdi-live has a bogus gtk2 installation
[02:40:42] <cradek> oh well, I'll let someone who knows/cares more than me look at it
[03:09:06] <skunkworks> well a single 1/4" set screw is not enough to keep the sprocket tight on the shaft ;)
[03:09:41] <sebastienbailard> I have a stupid question or two: How do I get emc to read the .cnc file I created with meshcam? It chokes on "bad characters".
[03:10:00] <cradek> what's on the line it complains about?
[03:10:29] <sebastienbailard> A comment, in the form of slash ampersand.
[03:10:43] <cradek> comments in EMC are (in parentheses)
[03:11:08] <sebastienbailard> That's general for all .ngc files. Ok.
[03:11:29] <cradek> yes that's in the ngc spec.
[03:12:01] <sebastienbailard> Is the .cnc file spec different?
[03:12:08] <cradek> no idea what a .cnc file is
[03:12:20] <cradek> often a CAM system has a "postprocessor" to tailor the output to a specific dialect of g-code
[03:12:32] <sebastienbailard> That's what it may be.
[03:12:52] <cradek> see if you can pick a more compatible post (or edit one that you have)
[03:13:24] <cradek> I think if you do not have NGC the next best bet is Fanuc
[03:13:24] <sebastienbailard> I'm trying editting. I'll poke at it a bit.
[03:13:59] <sebastienbailard> The .cnc file was created by meshcam, from a .stl file.
[03:14:31] <cradek> can you put it on the web somewhere?
[03:14:37] <cradek> I'd like to see what it looks like
[03:14:44] <sebastienbailard> I will in a moment.
[03:17:41] <sebastienbailard> Here it is: http://objects.reprap.org/mediawiki/index.php/Image:Foo.cnc
[03:18:40] <cradek> looks promising - very simple gcode
[03:19:20] <sebastienbailard> Yeah, but axis chokes on it.
[03:19:54] <cradek> take out the /* comments at the beginning, change G70 to G20 at the top, take out M25 at the end
[03:20:12] <sebastienbailard> Will do.
[03:20:23] <cradek> it's a nice looking inverted cone
[03:20:58] <cradek> about 9.4 inches tall and 9.3 inches diameter at the base
[03:21:41] <sebastienbailard> It's loading.
[03:22:21] <sebastienbailard> I wasn't sure about the dimensions; when I drew it up it was so many blender units tall.
[03:22:33] <cradek> haha how many inches in a blender unit?
[03:22:58] <sebastienbailard> Blender units are arbitrary.
[03:23:15] <skunkworks> I like toaster units my self
[03:23:17] <cradek> is that an art program rather than a cad program?
[03:23:31] <sebastienbailard> A mm, a league, whatever you want. Axis has loaded the file.
[03:23:43] <cradek> doing things (to scale) in art programs is a nightmare
[03:23:59] <cradek> yep, very minor tweaks to the gcode
[03:24:10] <sebastienbailard> Unfortunately, blender is probably the most aproachable free program out there.
[03:24:11] <cradek> I bet you'll be able to fix your postprocessor pretty quick
[03:24:21] <sebastienbailard> That's what the mit fab lab people are using.
[03:24:33] <cradek> for a simple geometric shape like this I'd write a program to generate the gcode directly
[03:24:40] <cradek> but that gets hard if it's a more complex shape
[03:25:21] <cradek> you could then use arcs/helixes instead of the flat-sided approximation you have here (you can see the flats in AXIS)
[03:25:22] <sebastienbailard> I think they want something fairly powerful, cheap, and something that kids and the unschooled can learn to use.
[03:25:56] <sebastienbailard> Blender does do nurbs, but I'm still learning.
[03:26:02] <cradek> that sounds like a real challenge
[03:26:39] <sebastienbailard> No idea if meshcam will do arcs and helixes.
[03:27:05] <sebastienbailard> The fab lab stuff is pretty cool. I'd like to visit one some day.
[03:28:20] <skunkworks> sebastienbailard: what do you have axis running?
[03:28:38] <skunkworks> * skunkworks ment emc2/axis
[03:28:57] <sebastienbailard> Taig mill. After I get this mill cut, I'm going to try to cut out a rapid prototyper head.
[03:29:07] <sebastienbailard> meant cone cut.
[03:29:20] <cradek> how big do you intend the cone to be?
[03:29:39] <sebastienbailard> Not 9" tall. I can tell you that.
[03:29:46] <cradek> heh I figured
[03:29:57] <sebastienbailard> I'll run the code, and then abort after a while.
[03:30:50] <cradek> just stick an M2 in the program, EMC will stop
[03:30:58] <cradek> you can move it around until you see what you want in AXIS
[03:31:27] <sebastienbailard> Thanks for the tip.
[03:31:36] <skunkworks> plus you can click on the element and it will show you the line of gcode
[03:31:40] <cradek> if I put M2 at line 10000 the cone is 3.6 inches tall
[03:32:18] <sebastienbailard> I'll try that in a moment.
[03:32:35] <jmkasunich> cradek: hi ;-)
[03:32:39] <sebastienbailard> The rapid prototyper head is RepRap stuff. I've bugged you about it before.
[03:32:41] <cradek> hmm it's set to 0.1 inches per minute - a little on the slow side
[03:32:47] <cradek> jmkasunich: hello
[03:33:10] <jmkasunich> is this some fscked code, or is it just me?
[03:33:11] <jmkasunich> void StoreDirectorySelected(
[03:33:13] <jmkasunich> #ifndef GTK2
[03:33:13] <jmkasunich> GtkFileSelection *selector,
[03:33:13] <jmkasunich> #else
[03:33:13] <jmkasunich> GtkFileChooser *selector,
[03:33:13] <jmkasunich> #endif
[03:33:15] <jmkasunich> char cForLoadingProject)
[03:33:17] <jmkasunich> {
[03:33:19] <jmkasunich> char * TempDir;
[03:33:31] <jmkasunich> oh, its me
[03:33:38] <cradek> heh
[03:33:48] <jmkasunich> gawd, that is ugly tho
[03:34:09] <jmkasunich> why not have two copies of the declaration, instead of breaking the line up and swapping just one part of it
[03:34:41] <cradek> sebastienbailard: you might want to take out that G92 at the beginning too - it's probably not what you want
[03:35:16] <sebastienbailard> Done.
[03:36:52] <sebastienbailard> This will be my first 3D part. I used truetypetracer earlier to do 'ello world.
[03:37:12] <cradek> hmm these are all approximations of circles - it would be really easy to generate better g-code programatically
[03:37:36] <cradek> cool! I'm glad to see people are getting some use out of that. I get a lot of comments.
[03:38:01] <sebastienbailard> You're timeguy?
[03:38:15] <cradek> that's me
[03:38:23] <cradek> chris actually
[03:38:33] <sebastienbailard> I figured.
[03:38:48] <sebastienbailard> Thanks. Your site is pretty interesting.
[03:38:58] <cradek> thanks
[03:39:10] <cradek> old domainname - I used to fix watches in another life
[03:39:53] <sebastienbailard> Ah.
[03:40:11] <sebastienbailard> I'm learning to make jewelry, myself.
[03:40:22] <cradek> cool
[03:40:41] <cradek> I did a little of that - just case repair, mostly gold
[03:40:57] <cradek> I have no artistic talent though, which is probably required for real jewelry work
[03:41:34] <sebastienbailard> I don't know, there's a lot of bad jewelry out there. :)
[03:41:52] <cradek> haha
[03:42:01] <sebastienbailard> I kid, I kid.
[03:42:40] <cradek> you may kid, but that doesn't make it untrue
[03:42:45] <cradek> brb
[03:49:52] <jmkasunich> ok, this is just insane
[03:50:04] <jmkasunich> I'm looking into the GTK problems on farm slot 4
[03:50:14] <cradek> does it have a bogus gtk installation?
[03:50:21] <jmkasunich> libgtk2.0-dev is installed according to dpkg -l
[03:50:33] <jmkasunich> (version 2.2.4-3_
[03:50:48] <cradek> if pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --exists ; then
[03:50:48] <cradek> # found the .pc file for gtk-2.0
[03:50:48] <cradek> GTK_VER="2.0"
[03:51:06] <jmkasunich> I figured "lets see if there is something newer" and told it to apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
[03:51:27] <jmkasunich> it wants to upgrade 80 packages, install 113 new ones and remove 15
[03:51:47] <cradek> ha
[03:52:00] <cradek> if pkg-config isn't confused now, it soon will be...
[03:52:38] <cradek> chris@buster:~$ pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --cflags
[03:52:40] <cradek> -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include .......
[03:52:45] <cradek> does this work for you?
[03:53:03] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:53:13] <cradek> it doesn't point at gtk1 includes or something?
[03:53:13] <jmkasunich> [John@cubix4 src]$ pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --cflags
[03:53:14] <jmkasunich> -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include
[03:53:22] <cradek> huh
[03:53:29] <cradek> wonder what it's confused about then
[03:53:47] <jmkasunich> [John@cubix4 src]$ dpkg -l | grep gtk
[03:53:47] <jmkasunich> ii libgtk2.0-0 2.2.4-3 The GTK+ graphical user interface library
[03:53:47] <jmkasunich> ii libgtk2.0-comm 2.2.4-3 Common files for the GTK+ graphical user int
[03:53:47] <jmkasunich> ii libgtk2.0-dev 2.2.4-3 Development files for the GTK+ library
[03:54:04] <jmkasunich> why is it saying 2.0 when the installed version is 2.2?
[03:55:29] <cradek> ii libgtk2.0-0 2.8.20-0ubuntu1 The GTK+ graphical user interface library
[03:55:39] <cradek> I bet it's just a version number of the package
[03:55:56] <jmkasunich> maybe I should apt-get remove libgtk2.0-dev
[03:56:04] <jmkasunich> and apt-get install libgtk1.2-dev
[03:56:21] <cradek> I think we won't use gth1 anymore
[03:56:23] <cradek> k
[03:56:30] <jmkasunich> oh, thats right
[03:56:53] <jmkasunich> but I think some of the older farm slots don't have 2.0
[03:56:58] <jmkasunich> they're probably not building CL at all
[03:57:02] <cradek> that's ok, they just won't build some stuff
[03:57:09] <cradek> that's a feature
[03:57:48] <jmkasunich> well, slot 2 has no gtk at all
[03:57:56] <jmkasunich> slot 3 has bugs in configure:
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> checking for GTK2... yes -
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> ./configure: pkg-config: command not found
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> ./configure: pkg-config: command not found
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> checking for libgnomeprintui-2.2... ./configure: pkg-config: command not found
[03:58:09] <jmkasunich> no -- printing from classicladder will not be possible
[03:58:36] <cradek> hmm
[03:58:40] <jmkasunich> slot 5 too
[03:58:46] <jmkasunich> checking for GTK2... yes -
[03:58:46] <jmkasunich> Package gtk+- was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[03:58:46] <jmkasunich> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-.pc'
[03:58:46] <jmkasunich> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
[03:58:46] <jmkasunich> No package 'gtk+-' found
[03:58:47] <jmkasunich> Package gtk+- was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[03:58:49] <jmkasunich> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-.pc'
[03:58:52] <jmkasunich> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
[03:58:54] <jmkasunich> No package 'gtk+-' found
[03:59:01] <jmkasunich> I gotta wonder about the most recent changes to that part of configure
[03:59:07] <jepler> yeah I must have gotten it wrong
[03:59:22] <jmkasunich> oh, hi jeff ;-)
[04:00:07] <cradek> apparently you can't always use type(1) that way
[04:00:15] <jepler> no it's stupider than that
[04:00:25] <jepler> +GTK_VER=none
[04:00:25] <jepler> if type pkg-config 2>/dev/null >/dev/null ; then
[04:00:29] <jepler> I think this is the needed fix
[04:00:40] <cradek> oh, duh
[04:01:03] <jepler> as for the problem on bdi-live -- it's possible (likely) that it uses post-gtk2.2 features, but the configure test doesn't check for that
[04:01:16] <jepler> the new CL is hopeless on gtk1, dunno how hard the bdi-live problem is to fix, or whether you can get a newer gtk2 package
[04:01:21] <jepler> 'night
[04:01:25] <cradek> bye
[04:01:28] <jmkasunich> bdi-live is based on debian
[04:01:36] <jmkasunich> so I can apt-get something newer probably
[04:01:45] <cradek> but I just have gtk 2.0
[04:01:53] <cradek> I don't think it needs 2.2
[04:02:00] <jmkasunich> dunno if you saw the part where it wanted to update 80 pkgs and get 113 new ones
[04:02:43] <cradek> is this one of the architectures we voted to stop supporting?
[04:03:13] <jmkasunich> bdi live is the newest of the ones we were gonna drop
[04:05:26] <CIA-5> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): fix simple gtk detection bug
[04:05:40] <jmkasunich> heh, you beat me to it
[04:05:52] <jmkasunich> I changed configure.in, but didn't have autoconf installed yet
[04:06:00] <cradek> I went through the same process
[04:07:01] <jmkasunich> well, that will trigger the farm again
[04:07:10] <jmkasunich> and it will probably fail on slot 4 again
[04:07:48] <jmkasunich> but I'm not staying up that late tonight....
[04:08:04] <cradek> if you remove gtk2 it'll "fix" it
[04:08:17] <cradek> depends what your goal is
[04:08:43] <jmkasunich> too late - the build already started
[04:09:30] <jmkasunich> I guess at this point my goal is to not have the farm bitching at us after every commit
[04:09:38] <jmkasunich> so removing gtk2 will accomplish that
[04:09:56] <jmkasunich> bummer - the farm might as well not exist right now
[04:10:40] <cradek> a breezy and a dapper and maybe a bdi4.5x would be nice instead of these old ones
[04:10:45] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:11:03] <jmkasunich> I was just thinking about starting a bdi-4.5x download and then going to sleed
[04:11:05] <jmkasunich> sleep
[04:11:25] <jmkasunich> and get serious about the VMs tomorrow
[04:11:36] <cradek> maybe something to use as a simulator-only architecture - edgy?
[04:11:46] <sebastienbailard> feature request: It would be useful to be able to select commands in the code entry history by using the up key, like when using bash in a terminal.
[04:11:59] <jmkasunich> well, I already have one VM set up with breezy as a non-rt sim
[04:12:17] <cradek> sebastienbailard: I agree
[04:12:41] <jmkasunich> hmm - if I copy every file in that VM directory to another directory, and rename them all, does that give me a second breezy VM without going thru the install?
[04:12:43] <skunkworks> sebastienbailard: if you highlight the line you want in the history and copy it - it apears in the mdi box
[04:13:09] <sebastienbailard> skunkworks: that helps. Thanks.
[04:13:11] <cradek> jmkasunich: yes
[04:13:23] <cradek> jmkasunich: but be careful not to fill in your holes when you copy
[04:13:24] <jmkasunich> so I can have breezy non-rt and breezy rt pretty easily
[04:13:33] <cradek> yeah
[04:13:37] <jmkasunich> how does one avoid filling holes?
[04:13:47] <cradek> man cp I guess
[04:13:53] <cradek> (I'd have to look too)
[04:14:06] <jmkasunich> looking
[04:14:18] <cradek> By default, sparse SOURCE files are detected by a crude heuristic and
[04:14:19] <cradek> the corresponding DEST file is made sparse as well.
[04:14:20] <jmkasunich> --sparse ?
[04:14:24] <cradek> maybe you don't have to do anything
[04:14:40] <cradek> just check when you're done to be sure
[04:14:47] <jmkasunich> compare sizes?
[04:16:39] <cradek> hmm maybe vmware doesn't use files with holes
[04:16:45] <cradek> I was used to qemu
[04:16:50] <jmkasunich> its optional
[04:17:02] <jmkasunich> making full size files results in a faster VM
[04:17:20] <skunkworks> night
[04:17:22] <jmkasunich> at the expense of using disk space right away instead of waiting for the disks to grow
[04:17:23] <A-L-P-H-A> bubye
[04:17:30] <jmkasunich> goodnight skunkworks
[04:17:32] <cradek> bye
[04:18:57] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot3_log.txt
[04:19:20] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5_log.txt
[04:19:39] <jmkasunich> well that was _not_ the expected outcome of that change
[04:20:09] <cradek> nope
[04:20:13] <jmkasunich> ah, its trying to build halvcp without GTK
[04:20:24] <cradek> cool, my LGX cd-rom has the boot floppy image on it
[04:20:29] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[04:22:46] <cradek> haha, I can't boot it because it was from before IDE CD-ROM drives (like qemu emulates)
[04:25:15] <cradek> I may have to try to find the hardware to install this again
[04:25:22] <jmkasunich> what is LGX?
[04:25:40] <cradek> the first? cd-rom distribution of Linux/GNU/X
[04:25:52] <cradek> ca. 1992
[04:25:57] <jmkasunich> can you read the cdrom into an iso?
[04:26:12] <cradek> I'm sure I can - it's in good condition
[04:26:22] <cradek> and it surely wasn't bootable so there's nothing tricky about it
[04:26:37] <cradek> hmm, I should at least make a copy of it
[04:26:55] <jmkasunich> save for posterity
[04:27:12] <cradek> heh, it's the LGX "beta test release"
[04:27:23] <jmkasunich> wow, copying 8 gigabytes takes a while
[04:27:27] <cradek> wonder if I had the real one later, I can't remember
[04:27:53] <cradek> did you ever figure out how to make an iso?
[04:28:07] <jmkasunich> readcd seems to have worked
[04:28:12] <jmkasunich> won't know until I try to install in a VM
[04:28:22] <jmkasunich> (it was a doze 95 cd that I was copying)
[04:28:29] <jmkasunich> for easycad
[04:28:38] <jmkasunich> I tried running easycad in wine last night
[04:28:52] <cradek> how did that go?
[04:28:57] <cradek> I've had ok success with wine
[04:29:38] <jmkasunich> it sorta works, but they (easycad) bypassed the windows APIs for the main drawing window - gets a major speedup when running native, but results in xorg sucking 98% of the CPU in wine
[04:29:54] <cradek> yuck
[04:30:09] <cradek> 'nice wine easycad' and forget about it?
[04:30:23] <jmkasunich> I have a hunch that every single write to "video memory" by their highly optimised drawing routines results in a call to the xserver
[04:30:32] <cradek> I can't figure out the pseudo-scsi dev= thing
[04:30:58] <jmkasunich> nicing it won't help - it just crawls along, which makes it totally unusable
[04:31:21] <cradek> ah
[04:31:26] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna try it in a VM and see what happens - thats a different approach to emulation
[04:31:33] <cradek> hmm, I right-clicked on it and picked "copy disc", duhhh
[04:31:41] <jmkasunich> what I really want is version 8 of easycad
[04:31:51] <cradek> what I really want is good cad on linux
[04:31:56] <jmkasunich> apparently its been running for nearly a year, but its still "not ready"
[04:32:04] <jmkasunich> version 8 runs on linux ;-)
[04:32:15] <cradek> woo
[04:32:23] <jmkasunich> from the posts I read on the easycad forums, it runs twice as fast on linux as on doze
[04:32:25] <cradek> what I really want is Free good cad on linux
[04:32:50] <jmkasunich> that would be nice, but I'll take good $ cad on linux
[04:33:10] <jmkasunich> easycad is $, not $$$ like most of the other serious cad packages
[04:33:18] <cradek> that helps
[04:33:24] <sebastienbailard> Have you looked at varicad?
[04:33:31] <jmkasunich> no
[04:33:32] <cradek> nope
[04:34:17] <sebastienbailard> It's not too expensive. Haven't used it yet. Still trying to get the demo to work.
[04:34:47] <jmkasunich> I've been using easycad for about 5 years, and I'm pretty hooked
[04:35:02] <jmkasunich> so far everything else I've looked at has been a step down
[04:35:07] <cradek> I feel that way about autocad 12, but it's more like 15 years
[04:35:26] <jmkasunich> I've used acad, 12, 13, something like that
[04:35:32] <jmkasunich> I prefer easycad
[04:35:52] <sebastienbailard> If acad inventor or rhino worked under linux, I'd buy em. would work
[04:36:05] <sebastienbailard> Ignore type
[04:41:33] <cradek> hmm vmware wants me to pick 2.4 kernel or 2.6 kernel :-)
[04:41:38] <jmkasunich> cradek: it seems that the various submakefiles expect GTK_VERSION= <nothing> when there is no GTK
[04:41:39] <jmkasunich> the original configure used GTK_VERSION=none
[04:41:45] <jmkasunich> which is more "conventional"?
[04:41:51] <jmkasunich> if empty var is more normal, I'll change configure
[04:41:53] <jmkasunich> hmm. configure has rotted
[04:41:57] <jmkasunich> originally you could set GTK_VERSION from the configure command line, to override the detection
[04:41:59] <jmkasunich> for example to build without GTK even if it is installed
[04:44:15] <jmkasunich> welcome back
[04:46:36] <jmkasunich> cradek: you still here?
[04:48:43] <cradek> back
[04:49:04] <jmkasunich> I guess you didn't see the stuff I typed right before the netsplit
[04:49:29] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> cradek: it seems that the various submakefiles expect GTK_VERSION= <nothing> when there is no GTK
[04:49:29] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> the original configure used GTK_VERSION=none
[04:49:29] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> which is more "conventional"?
[04:49:29] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> if empty var is more normal, I'll change configure
[04:49:29] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> hmm. configure has rotted
[04:49:31] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> originally you could set GTK_VERSION from the configure command line, to override the detection
[04:49:33] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> for example to build without GTK even if it is installed
[04:50:25] <jmkasunich> I think I've decided to use GTK_VERSION = blank to say don't build it (internal)
[04:50:43] <jmkasunich> and --enable-gtk or --disable-gtk to control it
[04:50:52] <jmkasunich> or should that be --with-gtk?
[04:51:22] <sebastienbailard> * sebastienbailard needs flood coolant.
[04:51:34] <sebastienbailard> Well, I milled a cone.
[04:52:46] <sebastienbailard> This plastic I'm using melts at 60C, so the bit was just making a puddle of the stuff.
[04:53:36] <sebastienbailard> I'm going to go tinker for a bit. Thanks for the help, all.
[04:53:48] <jmkasunich> bye
[05:04:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'm off to bed, might be able to help with makefiles/configure tomorrow
[05:04:22] <jmkasunich> ok
[05:04:35] <jmkasunich> I'm ignoring the command line part for now
[05:04:40] <cradek> good plan
[05:04:47] <jmkasunich> but I hard coded a "don't use GTK" to test on this box, and that worked
[05:04:54] <jmkasunich> now I'll remove it, test again, then commit
[05:05:12] <jmkasunich> btw, I got a reply from Mike Riddle (head honcho at EasyCad
[05:05:19] <jmkasunich> version 8 beta in about 3 months
[05:09:44] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/arithm_eval.c: fix a warning
[05:12:55] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): fix simple gtk detection bug again
[05:17:23] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich goes to sleep to avoid the compile farm's complaining
[05:25:19] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[05:27:08] <sebastienbailard> Hey, what do you guys do to generate gcode on linux? I ended up using meshcam under wine.
[05:30:14] <sebastienbailard> * sebastienbailard taps mike, then decides to pester people later, when they're awake.
[05:38:10] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[05:40:17] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[05:41:10] <sebastienbailard> * sebastienbailard rel-urks.
[05:50:08] <CIA-5> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[08:37:31] <A-L-P-H-A> oro!
[09:22:20] <anonimasu> morning
[09:57:48] <jymmmmm> morning anonimasu
[10:43:27] <anonimasu> that's up?
[11:57:18] <anonimasu> hm
[11:59:30] <anonimasu> 2 g203v ordered :9
[12:00:54] <anonimasu> and a g901
[12:32:32] <acemi> hi... I'm trying to use 2 paralel port at the same time but I have some problem. my first paralel port is onboard with address 0x378, the second is a PCI paralel port with address 0xa000. if I define only one paralel port, both work fine. In the HAL file, I use
[12:32:39] <acemi> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x0378 0xa000"
[12:39:33] <acemi> I connect the first motor to the first paralel port, pin-2 -> dir and pin-3 -> step. the second motor to the second paralel port, pin-2 -> dir and pin-3 -> step. first motor works but the second doesn't
[12:42:27] <acemi> http://pastebin.ca/249953 this is my hal file
[12:55:12] <acemi> I found my fault. after adding write&read function to the thread, it's OK
[12:55:19] <anonimasu> :)
[12:55:32] <acemi> bye
[14:25:28] <cradek> jepler: so it's gtk+-2.2 version 2.4.0 that's required?
[14:27:08] <skunkworks> cradek: where are the halscope preferences saved? is there a file I can delete to reset it to default?
[14:28:46] <jepler> cradek: no, it's gtk+-2.0 version 2.4.0
[14:29:05] <jepler> I googled for awhile, and I think that calling the pkg-config package "gtk+-2.2" was something they decided was a mistake
[14:33:18] <jepler> in fact there's only one hit for "gtk+-2.2.pc" on google, so I wonder if software using that pkg-config package name was ever released
[14:36:18] <jepler> I'm tempted to remove the 2.2 stuff
[14:37:30] <cradek> skunkworks: it's saved wherever your current directory is - probably your config dir - called .halscope_something
[14:38:11] <cradek> jepler: I wonder who came up with their versioning scheme.
[14:40:13] <jepler> cradek: I dunno, but it sure is complicated
[14:40:22] <jepler> my eyes glazed over readign that one hit for "gtk+-2.2.pc"
[14:40:45] <jepler> a little archaeology in the emc2 source code shows that the "gtk+-2.2" detection was always there since any gtk detection at all was
[14:43:52] <jepler> I don't know why you would want to disable the gtk+ bits if you have the necessary library available
[14:44:07] <jepler> CIA-7: will you quit crashing!
[14:51:23] <cradek> "Run the program in Memory, with rapid override at 5%, and use the jog handle for feedrate override. Use the "distance to go" display on the Current Commands page to compare tool position relative to the workpiece (the spindle may be stopped at any time to check the gap)." (Haas Anser-Man)
[14:52:02] <cradek> since the chuck doesn't move, why don't you touch the tool to it and tell the control "here it is" and then have the control tell you whether your program will crash into it?
[14:52:57] <anonimasu> cradek: yeah that seems more sane
[14:53:02] <cradek> the whole DTG thing still seems like a silly hack to me
[14:53:37] <cradek> "you can slow the feed down to 1% (or 0%) and react quicker if it looks like the tool will cut into the face of the jaws."
[14:54:43] <anonimasu> heh
[14:55:12] <anonimasu> that seems stupid..
[14:55:26] <cradek> seems like something you could automate with a computer :-)
[14:55:39] <anonimasu> shouldnt tool offsets..
[14:55:43] <anonimasu> and the limits handle it?
[14:55:46] <anonimasu> really..
[14:56:11] <anonimasu> im just ranting :)
[14:56:51] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks. I will look again.
[15:01:18] <jepler> cia isn't working, but it looks like my last checkin made the bdi-tng slot work again
[16:20:58] <alex_joni> hello all
[16:25:22] <jepler> hi alex
[16:25:48] <alex_joni> hi jeff.. how is everything?
[16:25:55] <alex_joni> hope not as much work as over here ..
[16:29:40] <jepler> oh I have plenty to do
[16:29:47] <jepler> but not enough that I can't go home on time every evening
[16:38:13] <alex_joni> that's nice
[16:39:20] <alex_joni> well.. going for a nap, hope I'll be a bit more free over the weekedn
[16:39:26] <alex_joni> weekend even
[16:39:28] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:33:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[18:38:45] <steves_logging1> steves_logging1 is now known as steves_logging
[19:30:34] <anonimasu> hello :)
[19:32:56] <jepler> does anyone know if emc2 will run on the nintendo wii?
[19:33:09] <jepler> ... there is a linux port after all ... http://www.wiili.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
[19:33:20] <jepler> and if it doesn't, then all you developers are stupid
[19:34:57] <anonimasu> lol
[19:35:06] <anonimasu> is there a realtime kernel?
[19:36:56] <jepler> shall I continue playing the role of the troublemaker? If so: "it's a video game console. it has to be realtime"
[19:37:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ..
[19:37:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> troll
[19:37:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> :p
[19:38:42] <anonimasu> jepler: my counterclaim is this:
[19:38:55] <skunkworks> on a similar note http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25808
[19:38:58] <anonimasu> jepler: just because the console is _realtime_ that does not mean that the linux kernel running on it is realtime..
[19:39:12] <anonimasu> as far as I know a normal pc is realtime until you put linux on it ;)
[19:39:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> "realtime" on a console is like 10ms here or there
[19:39:34] <jepler> skunkworks: ahahahahaha
[19:39:47] <anonimasu> lol
[19:39:49] <jepler> see .. I was joking .. and I didn't know anything about that "request"
[19:39:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[19:40:03] <anonimasu> does everyone smoke crack?
[19:40:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> playing a troll is fun :D
[19:40:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> at least sometimes
[19:40:20] <anonimasu> why would you even go near a xbox/console when you can buy a pc104
[19:40:21] <anonimasu> :)
[19:40:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra is not talking from experience
[19:40:39] <anonimasu> or a via eden :)
[19:41:57] <jepler> I assumed those machines typically had the "onboard video" problem .. the ones with any kind of display port, that is
[19:42:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:42:45] <anonimasu> that might be true..
[19:42:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ugh
[19:42:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not a mini-itx
[19:42:56] <anonimasu> though is onboard video that bad if you use a hardware stepgen?
[19:43:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra has had one, and was not very pleased
[19:43:03] <anonimasu> or a motenc?
[19:43:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I use it as a router now :p
[19:43:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> all drivers (win and lin) were lacking, and the performance was really bad (1ghz C5 =~ a 400mhz PIII)
[19:44:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok, maybe 500mhz
[19:44:27] <jepler> anonimasu: yes it's bad
[19:44:36] <SWPadnos> how many PCI slots does an XBox have? ;)
[19:44:42] <anonimasu> jepler: even the pc104 computers?
[19:44:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you'd get something far cheaper and much more powerful if you go for micro-atx (24.5x24.5 cm)
[19:44:56] <jepler> anonimasu: the mazak had such a motherboard (onboard video) .. I held down ALT+TAB while it was running a test program, and the whole machine started shuddering
[19:45:05] <jepler> jmkasunich nearly had a heart attack
[19:45:05] <anonimasu> argh
[19:45:12] <anonimasu> :)
[19:46:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> eek, nasty
[19:49:29] <anonimasu> I killed cnczone.
[19:49:40] <anonimasu> my post regarding mastercam brought it to it's knees
[19:50:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you're so 1337!
[19:51:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ( ;) )
[19:51:12] <anonimasu> haha
[19:51:15] <anonimasu> I know
[20:22:51] <skunkworks> I was wonder if that post was from you
[20:24:00] <anonimasu> :)
[20:24:07] <anonimasu> "an0n"
[21:05:40] <alex_joni> jepler: I ran emc2 successfully on an Geode GX1 pc104 & pc104+
[21:05:44] <alex_joni> with integrated video
[21:05:54] <alex_joni> but that was a couple of years ago :D
[21:17:04] <alex_joni> but it was an X-less install with remote GUI.. so that might have been a reason
[21:18:29] <jepler> that would certainly avoid the onboard video problems
[21:19:31] <alex_joni> yeah, also had to put the textmode in FB mode, because of some weird hardware problems on that chip
[21:51:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if you don't run X locally (say ssh and x-forwarding) are there still graphics issues? (if using a built-in card)
[21:51:27] <alex_joni> I wouldn't expect so
[21:53:20] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:53:28] <anonimasu> no..
[21:53:31] <anonimasu> there arent..
[21:53:49] <anonimasu> running x works pretty fast on slower systems via remote too
[21:56:16] <alex_joni> you can always run emc with an text gui, and another remote gui
[21:56:20] <alex_joni> that works even better
[21:57:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:22:56] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:23:19] <anonimasu> I wonder if the g202V are good..
[22:23:24] <anonimasu> err 203...
[22:28:41] <Bo^Dick> it looks advanced with the macrocell and stuff (it's a 140MHz device)
[22:28:55] <Bo^Dick> it should be powerful
[22:29:20] <anonimasu> ordered 2 today for a plasma table :)
[22:29:40] <Bo^Dick> probably a good purchase
[22:30:16] <anonimasu> I like the (V)ampite tag :)
[22:31:32] <anonimasu> it's too bad servos are so bloody expensive..
[22:31:58] <Bo^Dick> yeah, servos have so many advantages
[22:32:32] <Bo^Dick> btw, do you know if CNC software in general has the option of taking feedback from the CNC machine?
[22:32:53] <anonimasu> what do you mean?
[22:33:01] <anonimasu> emc does it.. :)
[22:33:51] <Bo^Dick> i mean the following, lets say the software order the machine to move to a location, could the software then fetch feedback from the machine that the machine head really is at that location?
[22:34:09] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: most don't
[22:34:10] <anonimasu> yes.
[22:34:24] <alex_joni> I mean, most of the hobby grade (low bucks) don't
[22:34:30] <Bo^Dick> is there a standardized way that is handled?
[22:34:34] <alex_joni> the more expensive ones all do
[22:34:49] <Bo^Dick> i'm talking about the CNC software now
[22:34:53] <alex_joni> no, there are interface cards for feedback
[22:35:01] <alex_joni> no standard way I'm aware of
[22:35:10] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: cnc software(controller)? right?
[22:35:22] <Bo^Dick> of course not
[22:35:23] <alex_joni> the most "standard" thing is using encoders with quadrature signals
[22:35:39] <Bo^Dick> software i mean emc, Mach3 and stuff
[22:36:07] <Bo^Dick> i'm not talking about feedback from the motor to motor driver alá servo
[22:36:31] <Bo^Dick> i mean total feedback to the software
[22:36:59] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: running feedback with linear scales or something is not impossible with emc..
[22:37:03] <Bo^Dick> lets say the servo or stepper is broke and then fails to reach a certain location. the software wouldn't know this then
[22:37:29] <anonimasu> with servos you usually have indication that stuff's breaking..
[22:37:54] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: not reaching a commanded location is called "following error"
[22:38:01] <alex_joni> and causes the controller to stop
[22:38:59] <anonimasu> I wonder how fast a plasma table needs to go..
[22:39:02] <Bo^Dick> so the conclision is that the software never gets information about the head position read from a sensor or something
[22:39:19] <anonimasu> no.
[22:39:23] <Bo^Dick> this sucks pretty hard to be honest
[22:39:30] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: You are generalizing.
[22:39:46] <Bo^Dick> and offers an ever worse disadvantage for stepper against servos
[22:39:55] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:40:04] <anonimasu> I were just about to say it "you are into servo domain now"
[22:40:37] <anonimasu> :)
[22:40:55] <Bo^Dick> a really smart CNC software should in my opinion have the optional ability to read feedback from the CNC machine in order to confirm that the machine does what the software think it is doing
[22:42:00] <alex_joni> from what would it read the feedback?
[22:42:04] <alex_joni> and under what form?
[22:42:46] <Bo^Dick> from a sensor i.e an encoder on the motor
[22:43:09] <alex_joni> well.. emc can do that
[22:43:21] <alex_joni> but to count an encoder you usually need a special board
[22:43:33] <anonimasu> though, with steppers it's not a really a good option either unless you can find really cheap encoders
[22:43:39] <alex_joni> or you can use the parport, but then you are limited by the max count rate
[22:43:49] <anonimasu> they end up costing more then the rest of the setup
[22:43:55] <Bo^Dick> yepp, but i have an idea here...
[22:43:59] <alex_joni> anonimasu: a normal encoder is around 2-300$ so that's not that much
[22:44:14] <Bo^Dick> lets have the coordinates stored in a register at the encoder
[22:44:26] <alex_joni> encoders don't have registers
[22:44:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: for some.
[22:45:03] <anonimasu> :)
[22:45:34] <anonimasu> http://www.usdigital.com/products/
[22:45:58] <Bo^Dick> look at this video for example: http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/Projects/dir_detect.AVI
[22:46:14] <Bo^Dick> if linux can view "avi" files
[22:46:52] <alex_joni> avi is a container file type
[22:47:15] <Bo^Dick> if you say so
[22:47:49] <Bo^Dick> computer mice dont cost 300$ do they
[22:48:00] <alex_joni> what I mean it doesn't say what kind of codec you used on it :)
[22:48:06] <alex_joni> but I'm confident it's playable ;)
[22:48:40] <Bo^Dick> lets hope so
[22:49:36] <alex_joni> it does play
[22:49:42] <anonimasu> yep
[22:49:47] <alex_joni> that is the most basic way an encoder is working
[22:49:54] <Bo^Dick> yepp
[22:49:56] <alex_joni> and it's called quadrature counting
[22:50:06] <alex_joni> most encoders work that way
[22:50:18] <Bo^Dick> yeah, it's smart since it reveals the direction as well
[22:50:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[22:50:50] <Bo^Dick> i made an experiment with a microcontroller that stored the coordinate in a register
[22:51:25] <Bo^Dick> this info could then be sent back to the CNC software so the software could compare the coordinate with the theoretical one in the software
[22:51:56] <Bo^Dick> is that a brilliant idea or what
[22:53:49] <Bo^Dick> encoders should NOT cost 300$ each
[22:54:33] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: why not+
[22:54:48] <Bo^Dick> yeah right
[22:55:04] <Bo^Dick> since when did computer mice cost that much
[22:55:18] <Bo^Dick> precisely, encoders are way overpriced
[22:56:04] <alex_joni> a computer mouse is crappy hardware
[22:56:07] <alex_joni> that's why it's cheap
[22:56:17] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: A mouse is nothing compared to a real encoder..
[22:56:27] <alex_joni> a "real" encoder has more than 1000 counts / rotation
[22:56:35] <alex_joni> some go up to 40000 counts / rotation
[22:56:49] <alex_joni> a mouse has what? 20-30 counts?
[22:57:05] <Bo^Dick> mouse has 128 counts/rev
[22:57:45] <anonimasu> lets say you direct drive a 2mm screw.
[22:58:01] <alex_joni> hmm.. it seems nowadays there are even with 100000 counts/ rotation
[22:58:19] <anonimasu> that ends up as 2/128
[22:58:24] <anonimasu> 0.015
[22:58:36] <anonimasu> mm
[22:58:39] <alex_joni> http://www.optolab.com/downloads/ulthemius.pdf
[22:58:42] <Bo^Dick> you could gear it in order to increase resolution
[22:58:55] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: yeah, but a gear system has backslash..
[22:59:02] <alex_joni> any mechanical parts mean backlash
[22:59:12] <alex_joni> anonimasu: heh
[22:59:14] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: and precision gearboxes are expensive.
[22:59:25] <alex_joni> anonimasu: seen that pdf?
[22:59:29] <anonimasu> no
[22:59:30] <anonimasu> looking now
[22:59:36] <alex_joni> at 16mm outer diameter .. 100000 cpr .. wow
[22:59:39] <Bo^Dick> what does it cost
[22:59:41] <anonimasu> backslash free are around 700eur.. ;)
[23:00:00] <anonimasu> small ones.
[23:00:13] <Bo^Dick> :D
[23:00:25] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: you can get a linear scale :D
[23:00:35] <Bo^Dick> why have the most advanced and expensive encoder that exists
[23:00:43] <alex_joni> that offers usually 0.1 .. 1 micron precision
[23:00:53] <Bo^Dick> where are all the low-budget encoders?
[23:00:56] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: didn't say you want one of those
[23:00:57] <anonimasu> yeah there are quite good ones(china) that goes to 0.01mm +/-0.03 that are cheap..
[23:01:08] <Bo^Dick> they should be in a price range compared to computer mice
[23:01:13] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: just stating what exists (those are way more than 300$)
[23:01:22] <alex_joni> there are no real encoders priced under 40-50$
[23:01:32] <alex_joni> although you can get mice that are that expensive ;)
[23:01:32] <anonimasu> the usdigital ones..
[23:01:43] <anonimasu> are cheaper, though not sealed..
[23:01:59] <alex_joni> anonimasu: and there are mechanical encoders for <20$ iirc
[23:02:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:02:15] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: like the one you have on car radio volume knobs
[23:02:21] <Bo^Dick> those seem intresting
[23:02:26] <anonimasu> potentiometers..
[23:02:31] <anonimasu> though, the precision ones are pricey..
[23:02:33] <alex_joni> anonimasu: not potentiometers
[23:02:37] <Jymmmm> car radios have knobs? since when?
[23:02:39] <alex_joni> they are mechanical encoders
[23:02:41] <anonimasu> ah, the rotary ones..
[23:02:54] <anonimasu> yeah.. though they are pretty low count also..
[23:02:54] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: the high end ones do.. not the cheap china crap you buy :P
[23:03:00] <anonimasu> *has 2 on the table*
[23:03:06] <Jymmmm> alex_joni sucks to be you!
[23:03:23] <Jymmmm> =)
[23:03:25] <Bo^Dick> i want a cheap but powerful quadrature encoder with decent resolution. could be made of plastic or whatever
[23:03:25] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: they are called jogwheels sometimes (sony calls them something like that)
[23:03:35] <Jymmmm> alex_joni oh, those...
[23:03:48] <Bo^Dick> this is all about cost effectiveness
[23:03:49] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: depends what resolution you want on them
[23:03:57] <Bo^Dick> not having the state of the art
[23:04:01] <alex_joni> some people suggest to build your own
[23:04:09] <anonimasu> elfa has them..
[23:04:11] <anonimasu> 40ppr..
[23:04:26] <Bo^Dick> the electronic part in an encoder should be the simplest to build
[23:04:40] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: yeah, but etching the mylar is not as simple..
[23:04:43] <alex_joni> blank CD (especially the ends of a 100 cd bulk, those that are completely transparent), then laser print a disk with slots and stick to it
[23:05:00] <anonimasu> alex_joni: yeah
[23:05:11] <Bo^Dick> its getting late
[23:05:18] <Bo^Dick> gotta log
[23:05:18] <alex_joni> guess you can build something like 500-1000 cpr
[23:05:21] <Jymmmm> someone created a PS file woth like 4000 ppi resolution, maybe even higher
[23:05:21] <alex_joni> although it's quite big
[23:05:41] <alex_joni> 2-3 times the small steppers ;)
[23:05:43] <Bo^Dick> printers has pretty good res haven't they
[23:05:46] <alex_joni> but way cheap
[23:05:53] <Bo^Dick> do they cost over 300$
[23:06:02] <Jymmmm> they just took it to kinkos and printed it on mylar on their high-res printer.
[23:06:06] <alex_joni> not really.. the good ones nowadays are 600-1200 dpi
[23:06:07] <Bo^Dick> they don't generally (except state of the art prestige ones)
[23:06:25] <alex_joni> and that's a bit low for a decent encoder
[23:06:44] <alex_joni> a high-res printer does 10000dpi+
[23:06:48] <Bo^Dick> why have monster resolution?
[23:06:50] <alex_joni> but costs a LOT of money
[23:07:01] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: because that will affect the accuracy of your encoder..
[23:07:09] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: to draw 1000 lines .1 mm away
[23:07:14] <anonimasu> also..
[23:07:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed ;)
[23:07:28] <alex_joni> night all
[23:07:29] <anonimasu> night alex
[23:07:38] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: bet you can find lots of places on google with homebrew encoders
[23:07:50] <Bo^Dick> it's like bying a dig camera that has 40 mega pixel resolution and pay a fortune
[23:07:54] <anonimasu> thre are some threads on cnczone with mouses as encoders..
[23:08:11] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: yup, and there are still people who need those
[23:08:14] <Bo^Dick> a high-res mouse could maybe be the answer
[23:08:30] <Jymmmm> Bo^Dick higher megapixels doens't necessarily mean better quality
[23:08:38] <anonimasu> well, only a retard would design a product using the worse/crappiest hardware avaiable..
[23:08:43] <Bo^Dick> to buy an encoder for more than 300$ feels like starting in the wrong direction
[23:08:51] <anonimasu> oh, I forgot that's how 90% of stuff are today..
[23:08:52] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: ebay
[23:08:58] <anonimasu> usdigital..
[23:09:00] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: leftovers
[23:09:06] <alex_joni> scrap encoders
[23:09:06] <Bo^Dick> yeah
[23:09:07] <alex_joni> etc
[23:09:11] <Bo^Dick> yepp
[23:09:17] <alex_joni> usually those 300$ encoders have 2-3 channels inside
[23:09:31] <alex_joni> and people tend to throw them away if one doesn't work
[23:09:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni got quite a few for free
[23:09:47] <alex_joni> seems I'm wasting my breath :)
[23:09:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:09:59] <alex_joni> anonimasu: care for some 8192x8192 encoders?
[23:10:01] <alex_joni> absolute
[23:10:08] <anonimasu> haha
[23:10:11] <anonimasu> I cant afford them
[23:10:10] <anonimasu> :)
[23:10:26] <alex_joni> I can send them for free
[23:10:43] <alex_joni> but you need to figure out the RS422 ;)
[23:10:50] <anonimasu> lol
[23:10:58] <anonimasu> that'd be nice
[23:10:59] <anonimasu> :)
[23:11:13] <alex_joni> I have a box full.. scraps .. but most are probably functional
[23:11:15] <Jymmmm> alex_joni do you have a log search function?
[23:11:20] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: google
[23:11:34] <Jymmmm> alex_joni details
[23:11:50] <Jymmmm> alex_joni I need to search last years stuff
[23:12:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[23:12:07] <alex_joni> http://www.google.com/custom?domains=linuxcnc.org&q=scrap&sitesearch=linuxcnc.org
[23:12:13] <anonimasu> I'm going to go to bed :)
[23:15:06] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: Could I make a reqeuest?
[23:15:14] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: request away
[23:15:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni couldn't stop Jymmmm before.. why start now
[23:16:21] <Jymmmm> alex_joni Could you later the timestamp in the logs to also reflect the date as well? I know it doesn't seem like much when looking at the last (lets say) 72 hours of logs, but when looking back months or years, it make a big difference.
[23:16:28] <Jymmmm> s/later/alter/
[23:16:53] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: if you come up with a script to do that, I promise I'll run it ;)
[23:17:26] <alex_joni> although the date is in the filename
[23:17:28] <Jymmmm> alex_joni no, no, I mean change the TS code to reflect the date as well
[23:18:02] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: you mean in the irc logs.. right?
[23:18:11] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: sorta like this---> [11/16 15:17:33] <alex_joni> although the date is in the filename
[23:18:39] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: the logs are only one day / file
[23:18:44] <cradek> and change the times to US central?
[23:18:45] <alex_joni> and the file holds the exact date
[23:18:49] <cradek> haha
[23:18:54] <Jymmmm> nah, GMT works
[23:19:00] <alex_joni> cradek: GMT is the middle of the world :P
[23:19:13] <alex_joni> cradek: they invented timezones there :P
[23:19:39] <cradek> sorry I was being a dork
[23:20:54] <robin_sz> meeeeeeeep!
[23:21:25] <anonimasu> hey robin
[23:21:30] <robin_sz> dude!
[23:22:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wants to run emc on http://laptop.org/
[23:27:29] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: No you don't, you want to run it on this ---> http://www.vgmuseum.com/systems/coleco/coleco.jpg
[23:30:11] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: already did
[23:39:26] <Jymmmm> alex_joni you lie like the dog that you are!
[23:39:37] <cradek> poor CIA
[23:40:00] <alex_joni> the KGB might have something to do about CIA's dissappearings
[23:40:25] <Jymmmm> blame the patriot act
[23:40:42] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:40:47] <cradek> bye
[23:40:52] <Jymmmm> alex_joni Have a good evening
[23:41:09] <cradek> the evening's over for alex_joni...
[23:42:04] <Jymmmm> well, I had to be nice to him somehow after giving him such a hard time.
[23:42:52] <Jymmmm> damn I wish that the fs was really a sql db (for the non-binary stuff)
[23:42:54] <alex_joni> this is interesting: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3590157991036784411
[23:44:15] <cradek> if you need to make that shape a lot...
[23:44:18] <Jymmmm> alex_joni at least this one wasn't youtube
[23:44:44] <cradek> metal legos
[23:45:53] <Jymmmm> how in the hell are they doing the > < part?
[23:46:03] <cradek> pointy tool
[23:46:40] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: the tool changes diameter
[23:46:43] <alex_joni> it's an additional axis
[23:46:57] <Jymmmm> cool
[23:47:02] <alex_joni> thought so too
[23:59:54] <Jymmmm> ah, FINALLY found it...