#emc | Logs for 2006-11-10

[01:10:11] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ppmc.c: removed a parameter that was created but never used
[01:29:37] <owhite> anybody home?
[01:29:43] <jmkasunich> nope
[01:30:06] <owhite> hey, its been a million years since I used IRC. what's the command to see who is on the channel?
[01:30:20] <cradek> /w
[01:30:21] <owhite> /w
[01:30:44] <owhite> huh. my client doesnt do nuffni.
[01:30:49] <jmkasunich> what IRC client are you using?
[01:30:49] <owhite> or nuffin.
[01:31:01] <owhite> xchat.
[01:31:16] <jmkasunich> on dapper?
[01:31:29] <owhite> I dunno.
[01:31:50] <owhite> so I got an emc question....
[01:31:56] <jmkasunich> well, this will probably depend on the version of xchat you have, which probably depends on the distro you have...
[01:32:02] <cradek> try its help
[01:32:06] <owhite> ...I'm setting up my laser. its cutting, its great.
[01:32:08] <jmkasunich> but my xchat has a little line in the bottom left that says "21 users"
[01:32:17] <jmkasunich> when I click on that I get a list
[01:32:19] <owhite> oh. hey look at that.
[01:32:37] <owhite> jmkasunich: that'll do it.
[01:32:41] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[01:32:44] <owhite> okay. so when my laser is cutting...
[01:33:17] <owhite> ....suppose I am cutting something that looks like a square wave.
[01:33:30] <owhite> if I have my feed at 10 inches per sec, it does okay.
[01:33:41] <owhite> er, per minute.
[01:34:01] <owhite> when I set it to 20 inches per minute, all the corners of the square wave become rounded.
[01:34:08] <owhite> starts to look like a sine.
[01:34:19] <jmkasunich> probably blending
[01:34:22] <cradek> if you want exact corners, use exact stop mode
[01:34:28] <jmkasunich> with a fairly low accel
[01:34:34] <cradek> or tolerance mode if you don't want stops
[01:34:43] <owhite> ooh. exact stop mode is specified in the .ini file?
[01:34:49] <cradek> it's a gcode. I'm looking for the docs.
[01:35:19] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[01:35:23] <owhite> but the acceleration I'd set in the .ini file.
[01:35:22] <SWPadnos> G61, G61.1, G64
[01:35:38] <cradek> read that wiki page for a full understanding of the relevant issues
[01:35:50] <owhite> *rtfms*
[01:37:40] <cradek> another answer might be that you have your accel set lower than necessary
[01:38:06] <owhite> G61 baby. look at them shape corners.
[01:38:16] <owhite> *ramps up the feedrate*
[01:39:29] <owhite> F20....nice cuts.
[01:40:38] <owhite> now's when you need a web cam :-)
[01:40:44] <owhite> F40...nice cuts
[01:41:20] <ChrisSmol> any good sources for some cheap steppers, other than ebay? I'd like something with shafts at each end i think
[01:42:27] <owhite> wow F80, great cuts.
[01:42:54] <owhite> feed rates like that I can really save on the oxygen.
[01:43:19] <cradek> make sure your accel is as high as reasonable too, I bet you have it too low if you got a lot of rounding at F10
[01:43:59] <owhite> possibly. so is the max_velocity in the .ini file the same thing as feedrate?
[01:43:59] <cradek> and we do need video!
[01:44:12] <cradek> feed is per minute, velocities in the ini are per second
[01:44:30] <jmkasunich> but cradek wasn't talking about velocity, he was talking about acceleration
[01:44:50] <cradek> true, that's why I kept saying acceleration :-)
[01:44:59] <owhite> yeah I got that. I was just wondering if setting the F80 didnt mean anything because it was limited by the .ini file.
[01:45:23] <jmkasunich> F80 = 80 inches/min = 1.33 inches per second
[01:45:25] <cradek> yes it is limited, the ini should represent your machine's limits
[01:45:36] <owhite> *edits*
[01:45:54] <jmkasunich> so if the velocity limit in your ini file is more than 1.33, you will get F80 when you ask for it
[01:47:59] <owhite> well I must have fixed something because I got a following error :-)
[01:49:01] <jepler> if you're on a stepper machine, you need to increase the STEPGEN_MAXVEL and STEPGEN_MAXACCEL items too. If you're on a servo machine it means you're at your machine's limits.
[01:49:26] <owhite> * owhite has servos. 20,000 steps per inch resolution.
[01:50:37] <jmkasunich> what kind of servo card are you using?
[01:51:09] <owhite> Pico systems Universal Stepper Controller.
[01:51:25] <jmkasunich> I thought you said you had servos?
[01:51:38] <owhite> yep. that goes to gecko drivers.
[01:51:49] <owhite> confusing that way. :-)
[01:51:59] <cradek> yikes, double pids
[01:52:08] <owhite> is that good er bad?
[01:52:14] <owhite> *figures its bad*
[01:52:47] <owhite> man this thing is scampering along at quite a clip. cant believe its cutting metal.
[01:54:17] <cradek> the inflation will help you the most if you go last
[01:54:28] <cradek> err
[01:54:37] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[01:54:40] <jmkasunich> ?
[01:54:54] <cradek> it's a long story
[01:57:05] <jtr_emc> we're waiting...
[01:58:20] <jepler> cradek is the master of not telling a story
[01:58:37] <cradek> I told the story to jmk - he can summarize if he wants
[01:59:02] <cradek> "the sound of a ninja falling in love in the forest of your heart is HIYAA!"
[01:59:50] <ChrisSmol> hmm, 125 oz-in steppers for $12 each. maybe just a little too low torque?
[02:00:26] <cradek> that is a little low unless your machine is very small
[02:00:38] <ChrisSmol> it's the micro mill.
[02:02:01] <ChrisSmol> i really want to hold out for a dual shaft, anyway.
[02:02:17] <cradek> handwheels?
[02:02:18] <jepler> ChrisSmol: I haven't used these steppers personally but maybe they're worth consideration: http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[02:02:36] <ChrisSmol> yeah,i'd still like manual control i think. dunno, i don't even have the mill here yet ;-)
[02:02:55] <ChrisSmol> looking...
[02:04:56] <ChrisSmol> ahh, bipolar
[02:05:15] <cradek> you want bipolar
[02:05:34] <ChrisSmol> i do?
[02:05:45] <cradek> they're more powerful
[02:05:57] <ChrisSmol> i could buy their drive board and be done with it
[02:06:02] <cradek> all real drivers run in bipolar mode
[02:06:16] <cradek> yeah, that's a reasonable approach for a small machine
[02:06:37] <cradek> maybe even what I'd do if I was starting over
[02:07:02] <ChrisSmol> there's the fun of building your own, which no doubt quickly loses the appeal once you get started
[02:07:24] <cradek> yeah
[02:07:52] <ChrisSmol> their driver pcb looks nice, 26 pin connector to directly go to a parallel port
[02:08:12] <jmkasunich> talking about the xylotex 3 axis?
[02:08:21] <ChrisSmol> yes
[02:08:26] <ChrisSmol> hear anything about it?
[02:08:26] <jmkasunich> I have one of those
[02:08:35] <ChrisSmol> like it?
[02:08:39] <jmkasunich> don't have their motors, just some ones I scrounged
[02:08:45] <jmkasunich> seems to work ok
[02:08:56] <jmkasunich> I use it for testing, I don't actually run a machine with it
[02:09:23] <jepler> by the way, emc2 includes a "xylotex" pinout in the sample configurations
[02:09:30] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:09:34] <jepler> it should match the pinout of those 3-axis modules
[02:09:35] <jmkasunich> I put it there
[02:09:38] <jmkasunich> and it does
[02:10:45] <ChrisSmol> well, i have some surplus electronics stuff i'm going to sell to a borker for $400, so that would pay for the 3 steppers and driver pcb.
[02:10:57] <jmkasunich> a borker?
[02:11:11] <ChrisSmol> parts broker
[02:11:16] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[02:11:27] <jmkasunich> what size machine are you going to run?
[02:11:47] <ChrisSmol> one of the guys that buys stuff for 3 cents on the dollar and sells it for 3 dollars on the dollar
[02:11:54] <ChrisSmol> the harbor freight micro mill
[02:12:22] <jmkasunich> that should work pretty well I think - isn't it in the same size class as the sherline?
[02:13:19] <ChrisSmol> not sure, it is a pretty small machine, but i don't think i will be doing any major projects with it. if i can make proto PCBs and put openings and maybe recessed text in plastic electronic enclosures, i will be happy
[02:14:17] <owhite> heh. http://www.nilno.com/100_0344.jpg
[02:14:41] <jepler> hello!
[02:14:50] <owhite> *wave*
[02:14:51] <ChrisSmol> ok, i'll bookmark the xylotex site, looks like good stuff
[02:15:11] <owhite> I made a video but it was 19meg.
[02:15:57] <Jymmmmmm> Damn $16 for a gallon of denatured alcohol!
[02:17:18] <cradek> owhite: that's a great picture, thanks
[02:17:48] <owhite> thanks. it was a piece of scrap so it looks pretty scratchy. goof for a laugh.
[02:18:01] <owhite> er, gooD for a laugh.
[02:18:43] <owhite> thanks much for the .ini information people. g'night.
[02:23:40] <Jymmmmmm> Hell #emc.... I like it!!!
[02:30:39] <Jymmmmmm> is that edm?
[02:30:50] <jmkasunich> laser
[02:31:04] <Jymmmmmm> on SS ?
[02:31:37] <Jymmmmmm> man I want a laser sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
[02:31:37] <jmkasunich> dunno, the guy who did it left
[02:31:43] <cradek> whee, I guess exact stop mode works
[02:32:01] <Jymmmmmm> I'd be happy with 100W CO2
[02:33:31] <Jymmmmmm> "You know you're a geek when... You have 4 computers all around you doing something, and none of them are a server"
[02:36:49] <jtr_emc> owhite is using a 100W CO2 on SS - http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/
[02:37:06] <jtr_emc> pretty neat site, with some videos
[02:37:48] <Jymmmmmm> Original price: $27,000.
[02:38:06] <Jymmmmmm> peak @ 250W
[02:42:45] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: a very very small start to vcp documentation
[02:58:33] <Jymmmmmm> Jymmmmmm is now known as Jymmm
[03:01:00] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: markup fixes. verbatim include standard_pinout.hal so that it stays up to date in future documentation versions
[03:02:32] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: whoops, line break in wrong spot
[03:10:51] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepper.lyx: fix include path for standard_pinout
[04:34:29] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_HAL.lyx: added a couple paragraphs of text to the VCP docs, and added a small example with a screenshot
[04:34:29] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (tinyvcp.png vcp.lyx): added a couple paragraphs of text to the VCP docs, and added a small example with a screenshot
[05:47:30] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: boink....?
[05:53:34] <Jymmm> ?
[05:57:25] <Jymmm> LawrenceG wazzzzzzzzup ?!
[05:57:31] <LawrenceG> hey
[05:57:44] <LawrenceG> saw you are playing with openwrt
[05:57:52] <Jymmm> yeah, trying to =)
[05:58:32] <LawrenceG> I picked up 5 netgear wgt634u boxes.... fun little computers
[05:58:59] <Jymmm> have you been playing with openwrt alot?
[05:59:14] <LawrenceG> usb 2, 5 wired enet ports, mini pci wireless
[05:59:53] <Jymmm> the netgear box has a usb port?
[06:00:07] <LawrenceG> not too much.... I have built the kamakazi build a 1/2 dozen versions and flashed a few of them
[06:00:27] <LawrenceG> usb2... it was made for a hard drive as an ftp server
[06:00:45] <Jymmm> ah, how much?
[06:00:59] <LawrenceG> cool way to have a network drive without leaving computers on
[06:01:26] <LawrenceG> see ebay Item number: 260050963032
[06:01:56] <LawrenceG> I paid $40Cdn including shipping each using a buy it now option
[06:03:09] <LawrenceG> check the sellers other auctions... they have been selling these for a couple of months... the must have bought thousands of them
[06:04:05] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/wgt634u.html for a home brew serial cable
[06:04:30] <LawrenceG> also a shot of the inside of the router
[06:05:53] <Jymmm> damn....
[06:06:01] <Jymmm> I paid $60 for this linksys (brand new)
[06:06:14] <LawrenceG> I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way to add an i/o expansion
[06:06:16] <Jymmm> but I have time to return it
[06:06:22] <Jymmm> GPIO ?
[06:07:27] <Jymmm> LawrenceG did you make the PCB for the rs232?
[06:07:43] <LawrenceG> it has some, but I dont know how much is accessible... there is always usb2, or maybe pulling the mini pcicard... have you ever seen mini pci i/o cards?
[06:07:55] <LawrenceG> yes... using emc!
[06:08:55] <Jymmm> I have, but never used them.
[06:09:21] <LawrenceG> same cct for another project... better mechanical design http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/kenwood.html
[06:11:51] <Jymmm> I'm trying to see if I can get the netgear locally
[06:12:41] <LawrenceG> its no longer in production... EOL'ed last year I think... it was too expensive
[06:13:18] <Jymmm> ah
[06:13:39] <LawrenceG> you can probably get the ones on ebay for around $18 to $20 plus shipping... they usually bid up to a little over $18
[06:14:31] <LawrenceG> not bad for a linux computer with 2 serial ports and all the network stuff
[06:15:12] <LawrenceG> The WGT634U is based on the Broadcom 5365P board that features a 200 MHz MIPS CPU along with 2 serial ports, 8 MB flash, 32 MB RAM, a wireless network card, a USB 2.0 port and 5 10/100 wired network ports.
[06:15:13] <Jymmm> Huh? you just said you paid $40 EACH
[06:16:24] <LawrenceG> they were $39.95cdn including shipping (buy it now)... so I ended up paying about $25usd plus shipping
[06:19:28] <LawrenceG> that one I sent you the ebay item on on at $14.50 + $14.95 shipping to canada would cost me about $34cdn + another $5 for the post office + 13% taxes
[06:19:44] <Jymmm> ouch
[06:20:10] <LawrenceG> the ones I bought were on this side of the border, so no extra costs
[06:21:37] <LawrenceG> I think they were a good deal.... they run on 12v... maybe not bad for a car computer.... it could link to the internet everytime it drove by a Starbucks!
[06:22:08] <Jymmm> around the corner from work.... http://justdeals.stores.yahoo.net/wgt634unar.html
[06:24:12] <LawrenceG> $44.95 is a bit high... but if they are local, they might give you a break as they advert "free shipping"
[06:24:24] <Jymmm> doubtful =)
[06:24:55] <LawrenceG> yea... I tried to get a deal on a batch of 5 and they laughed
[06:26:14] <Jymmm> I'd *LOVE* a media server.... a wifi appliance I attach to the TV w/ remote, and the netgear thing with a 300GB USB ext drive I have
[06:26:20] <LawrenceG> A buddy of mine has one by his stereo and he streams all his mp3's from his computer to the stereo via the wireless link and uses a USB sound dongle
[06:27:02] <LawrenceG> hey... great minds think alike
[06:27:33] <Jymmm> lol
[06:28:21] <LawrenceG> I was going to use them for remote vhf receivers for the local repeater... stream receiver audio across the internet from 3 or 4 locations
[06:28:38] <LawrenceG> and vote on best snr
[06:29:05] <Jymmm> It was funny.... I have movies on the ext 300gb hdd connected to the laptop via usb, coming across the lan to my gf's computer in the living room, stringing a video cable from her computer to the TV hearing audio from the stero connected to her computer watching it on the "dual screnn" (tv out) to the 42" tv
[06:30:14] <LawrenceG> lots of technology.... hard to do inthe days of tubes
[06:30:55] <Jymmm> yep
[06:31:18] <LawrenceG> did you see that video last year of the guy that had his outside xmas lights controlled by computer?
[06:32:01] <Jymmm> I think so
[06:32:01] <LawrenceG> one could do it with one of these... wireless (excluding several kw of lighting cords)
[06:32:34] <Jymmm> Yeah, I love the idea of the cheap HW being utilized for other things.
[06:32:41] <LawrenceG> its probably on utube somewhere
[06:34:02] <Jymmm> Eeewww This item is refurbished and will ship in a non-retail box.
[06:34:08] <Jymmm> nm
[06:35:06] <Jymmm> USB2.0 ?
[06:36:30] <LawrenceG> yes... verified... I plugged a hd in and had reasonable speed.... not like a desktop, as there is a pretty small cpu working in the box
[06:37:09] <LawrenceG> If I remember... was about 3-4Mbytes/sec on hdparm -tT test
[06:37:35] <LawrenceG> old laptop drive speed
[06:39:06] <Jymmm> I just searched their closed auctions.... been going for about $22/ea on avg.
[06:39:12] <LawrenceG> wgt634u- the only thing I have heard bad about them is the original software and they tend to overheat
[06:39:53] <LawrenceG> I pulled the 2 side panels out to let the serial cables out and more air in
[06:40:31] <LawrenceG> I have been using one with original software for over a month now with no problems
[06:40:45] <Jymmm> 24/7 ?
[06:41:09] <LawrenceG> yup.... it doesnt seem to crash
[06:41:17] <Jymmm> I suspect you could also toss in a tiny fan too
[06:42:14] <Jymmm> I wonder if they have USB to composite video out?
[06:42:18] <LawrenceG> I have seen some mods where the cut a hole in the case and glue on a tiny fan.... it would have been much better if they just put a slightly larger heatsing on the cpu
[06:42:55] <LawrenceG> hmmm.. a usb video card
[06:43:14] <LawrenceG> maybe a minipci one around?
[06:43:46] <LawrenceG> not that you could run X on such a small platform
[06:44:15] <Jymmm> no, just a usb video sender
[06:45:47] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Audio-Video-Sender-Receiver-w-USB-input_W0QQitemZ110053343492QQihZ001QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[06:46:02] <Jymmm> not EXACTLY what I had in mind...
[06:48:45] <LawrenceG> youtube.com pisses me off.... no sound on the videos
[06:53:56] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: going to head off to bed... cheers for now
[06:56:52] <Jymmm> G'night LawrenceG
[07:01:02] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101307.asp
[07:01:16] <Jymmm> LawrenceG read the stuff in RED
[11:30:59] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: around?
[13:55:03] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24699&page=14
[13:55:45] <skunkworks> I ment http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24699&page=14
[13:56:27] <skunkworks> mariss is still giving pointers. But what pointers he is giving - I don't think anyone can produce :) he is good.
[13:56:50] <anonimasu> :)
[13:59:20] <anonimasu> seen the last post?
[14:00:37] <skunkworks> yes- mistersunshine is bo^dick
[14:00:44] <anonimasu> ^_^
[14:00:50] <anonimasu> I know
[14:45:42] <skunkworks> anonimasu: when you where tuning your pid loop - what where you graphing in halscope?
[15:13:43] <anonimasu> I cant remember..
[15:13:48] <anonimasu> the requested and the actual I think..
[15:13:57] <anonimasu> I can check when I get back home
[15:14:00] <anonimasu> are there a day to to block delete in emc?
[15:14:15] <anonimasu> or something like it
[15:16:26] <anonimasu> rather
[15:16:28] <anonimasu> how do you use block delete?
[15:17:49] <anonimasu> im trying to get this post to play nice..
[15:18:17] <anonimasu> brb
[15:38:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[15:40:28] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I played some more with the servo last night - The calculated I and D actually work quite well for a star.
[15:40:30] <skunkworks> start
[15:40:56] <SWPadnos> cool
[15:41:15] <skunkworks> with out any more tuning - I was getting following errors less than .010 up to 450ipm
[15:41:24] <SWPadnos> have you done any testing to check linearity of PWM output vs. motor speed?
[15:41:32] <skunkworks> no
[15:41:39] <SWPadnos> that's probably step 1 :)
[15:42:12] <jepler> anonimasu: in the development version of emc, block delete has been added. In 2.0.x, the block delete syntax is accepted but the block delete switch is always treated as disabled (I think)
[15:42:10] <skunkworks> hmm - how would you go about tuning? 500 words or less
[15:42:44] <SWPadnos> this is just for checking the drive charicteristics, to see if you have something that's tunable
[15:43:40] <skunkworks> ah - so if it wasn't linear > pwm to rpm.. It would be pretty hard to tune?
[15:44:00] <SWPadnos> first, I'd not use emc to tune. I'd use a bare HAL with the needed drivers/components
[15:44:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, for PID to work, the system has to be "linear, time invariant"
[15:44:56] <SWPadnos> so it needs to respond the same regardless of base conditions (like speed)
[15:45:10] <SWPadnos> and it needs to remain the same over time (which it should, unless something breaks)
[15:45:47] <SWPadnos> I have a short course on "PID for programmers" - let me see if I can find a copy
[15:49:15] <skunkworks> from what I see - it looks like you send the loop a square wave and check command vs position.
[15:49:36] <skunkworks> command vs actual
[15:51:15] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:51:40] <SWPadnos> with a bare HAL setup, you'd do that by using sets on the command-pos signal into the PID block
[15:54:44] <alex_joni> http://resursadefun.ro/imagini/Digi-2.jpg
[15:55:01] <alex_joni> http://resursadefun.ro/imagini/DigiTv.jpg
[15:59:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: heh, that's quite similar to many apartments here in sweden
[16:00:22] <alex_joni> people that never heard of cable
[16:00:22] <alex_joni> :/
[16:01:02] <skunkworks> I live too far out in the sticks to get cable.
[16:01:28] <alex_joni> skunkworks: bet you don't have 237,5 neighbours
[16:01:42] <skunkworks> I was lucky to be close enough to a remote to get dsl.
[16:01:58] <skunkworks> yah- neighbor density is pretty low. :)
[16:10:28] <SWPadnos> here we go: http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/articles.html
[16:11:10] <SWPadnos> there's a lot of theory there, but if you can wade through it, you'll understand motor control (and some generic control theory) very well
[16:13:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni says l8er
[16:13:52] <SWPadnos> l8r lX
[16:14:40] <skunkworks> Thanks
[16:17:06] <skunkworks> I like being in the digital realm. pwm out - quaduture in. (it is why I started with steppers)
[16:17:39] <SWPadnos> the world is analog though :)
[16:19:39] <skunkworks> yes - but I don't like it
[16:19:41] <skunkworks> :)
[16:22:03] <jepler> skunkworks: I'm in perfect agreement with you on this one
[16:26:56] <SWPadnos> I like to view the world with a "noise margin" as well - it just doesn't always work out
[16:27:13] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, just a quick note to let you know I will be doing some quick rehubbing of our European servers in a moment. It should all be quick and painfree. Please hang in there while we jump and thank you for using freenode!
[17:16:51] <alex_joni> hi all
[17:16:57] <ValarQ> hi alex
[17:18:37] <alex_joni> what's up?
[17:22:03] <anonimasu> alex_joni: Ive been getting "unexpected" realtime delays lately
[17:22:13] <alex_joni> anonimasu: onboard video?
[17:22:34] <anonimasu> no
[17:22:44] <alex_joni> hmm.. then maybe something else..
[17:22:48] <alex_joni> usb sticks?
[17:22:56] <anonimasu> yeah..
[17:23:11] <alex_joni> skunkworks also said it's happening to him when plugging in an USB stick
[17:23:18] <anonimasu> ok..
[17:23:27] <anonimasu> does it affect anything when making parts?
[17:23:34] <alex_joni> it should :)
[17:23:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu just made nice scrap
[17:23:43] <alex_joni> although in your case it might be forgivable
[17:23:49] <anonimasu> ended up 115,XX
[17:23:55] <alex_joni> you don't really generate the steps from the parport
[17:23:55] <anonimasu> and it's 104 on the drawing
[17:24:12] <alex_joni> oh.. that sounds like a lot
[17:24:24] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:24:41] <alex_joni> 11 mm ?
[17:24:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:24:50] <anonimasu> I'
[17:24:54] <anonimasu> I've checked my adjustment..
[17:25:03] <anonimasu> and it's right..
[17:25:06] <alex_joni> sounds to me like somethings fishy there
[17:25:18] <alex_joni> is this only one direction? akaX ?
[17:25:47] <anonimasu> I think it's all axes..
[17:26:20] <alex_joni> and this worked ok before?
[17:26:31] <anonimasu> when running the older version of emc2
[17:26:35] <alex_joni> maybe you ran the wrong config ?
[17:26:39] <anonimasu> no
[17:26:44] <alex_joni> how much older?
[17:26:46] <anonimasu> there's just one univstep config..
[17:26:51] <anonimasu> from the livecd..
[17:27:00] <alex_joni> what version are you running now?
[17:27:08] <anonimasu> let me check..
[17:27:27] <jepler> older versions of emc2 do not report the "unexpected realtime delay"; that feature was added in 2.0.4
[17:27:51] <alex_joni> yeah, but other than reporting that error nothing else was changed
[17:28:03] <anonimasu> whre where can I check my version?
[17:28:13] <alex_joni> axis -> help
[17:28:20] <anonimasu> 2.0.4 is the devel version i'm running
[17:28:27] <alex_joni> devel?
[17:28:33] <anonimasu> and 2.0.3
[17:28:34] <anonimasu> head..
[17:28:39] <jepler> 2.0.4 is not the development version, it's the stable release version
[17:28:53] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (conv.comp.in mkconv.sh .cvsignore Submakefile): add converters between each pair of HAL types
[17:28:59] <anonimasu> 2.0.3 is the one that came with my setup..
[17:29:20] <anonimasu> let me check the other one
[17:29:37] <alex_joni> 2.0.3 is the one on the cd
[17:29:42] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:29:46] <alex_joni> it should have been updated automatically to 2.0.4
[17:30:29] <anonimasu> axis-version pre-2.1
[17:30:41] <alex_joni> ok, that is development
[17:31:30] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile: clean up extra generated files
[17:31:37] <alex_joni> the configurations are not compatible though
[17:31:47] <anonimasu> it moves really exact when moving it..
[17:31:49] <anonimasu> that's what disturbs me..
[17:32:00] <alex_joni> this is g340 servo ?
[17:32:09] <anonimasu> yes
[17:32:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hmmms
[17:32:44] <alex_joni> maybe you had some offsets active?
[17:32:51] <anonimasu> nope
[17:32:58] <anonimasu> if I had it would have been off center..
[17:33:14] <anonimasu> still 104mm is 104mm :)
[17:33:16] <anonimasu> right?
[17:33:17] <alex_joni> did you use block delete? I noticed you asked about that earlier
[17:33:29] <alex_joni> anonimasu: depends how the program is written
[17:33:40] <anonimasu> want to have a look at the program?
[17:33:58] <alex_joni> sure.. but I have no AXIS around to load it :/
[17:34:10] <alex_joni> but put it online, maybe someone else will look at it too
[17:34:25] <alex_joni> pastebin.ca should do the trick
[17:34:32] <anonimasu> I have a http to put it on
[17:34:33] <anonimasu> :)
[17:36:38] <anonimasu> www.almaskin.se/FIXTUR.NC
[17:36:44] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/FIXTUR.NC
[17:36:45] <anonimasu> clickable..
[17:36:52] <anonimasu> want a screenshot?
[17:37:13] <alex_joni> ok
[17:40:02] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/Screenshot-1.png
[17:40:05] <alex_joni> and that opens without an error?
[17:40:14] <anonimasu> yes
[17:40:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni finds it odd that you have an G0 on the second line
[17:40:20] <alex_joni> without parameters
[17:41:06] <alex_joni> what's your cutter diameter?
[17:41:09] <anonimasu> 12mm
[17:41:18] <alex_joni> 104+12=116
[17:41:46] <alex_joni> when you mill that program the cutter will be positioned in the middle
[17:41:59] <alex_joni> e.g. half a radius milled on the right and half on the left
[17:42:04] <anonimasu> yeah..
[17:42:20] <alex_joni> so 115,xx is not that far off
[17:43:18] <anonimasu> no..
[17:43:23] <anonimasu> damn.
[17:43:27] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is being stupid
[17:43:41] <alex_joni> you probably want G41 or G42 to compensate
[17:44:03] <alex_joni> or make the program 104-12=92
[17:44:28] <anonimasu> alex_joni: actually with further measuring it's 116 ;)
[17:45:13] <alex_joni> well.. then it's ok ;)
[17:45:16] <anonimasu> 116,05 :/
[17:46:20] <anonimasu> dinner :)
[18:12:40] <skunkworks> yah - my motherboard doesnt like when I have a usb stick plugged into i
[18:12:42] <skunkworks> it
[18:13:21] <skunkworks> I would have never known unless I had the latest verion of emc that checks.
[18:18:31] <skunkworks> hmm - maybe that should be added to the wiki.
[18:24:13] <Jymmm> "How to verify your USB under emc"
[18:24:24] <Jymmm> a: Talk to skunkworks.
[18:30:24] <skunkworks> it is really easy with the latest emc2 - I plug in the usb drive - count to 10 and emc2 gives a message of "unexpected realtime delay"
[18:30:41] <skunkworks> :)
[18:39:10] <anonimasu> skunkworks: does that do anything to your parts?
[18:39:32] <Jymmm> anonimasu Yeah... ------------------------/\/----------------------------------------
[18:39:33] <Jymmm> lol
[18:47:33] <anonimasu> I get one when I start emc..
[18:47:44] <anonimasu> then it goes away..
[18:48:20] <anonimasu> maybe I should keep the usb stick out when machining
[18:49:53] <skunkworks> that is what I do
[18:50:02] <skunkworks> Never ran it with it in on this computer.
[18:50:11] <anonimasu> but the usc shouldnt miss even if I have it in..
[18:50:13] <anonimasu> does it?
[18:51:36] <skunkworks> I would not think as bad - if the usc card is sending the pulses.. Still would not take the chance ;)
[18:51:51] <anonimasu> shitty mobo.
[18:52:33] <skunkworks> mine is a mini 400mhz originally 600mhz now compaq computer I got from a univerity sale.
[18:52:56] <skunkworks> other than that issue - it has been working great.
[18:55:24] <anonimasu> yeah/me nos
[18:55:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:20:26] <skunkworks> Another random question - could you have a separate pid loop for each of the 2 axis directions?
[19:55:11] <jepler> skunkworks: you mean, different PID parameters depending on the direction? that's not supported at the moment but if it is needed it would be a SMOP to add it.
[19:55:55] <jepler> skunkworks: do you think you need that?
[19:56:03] <skunkworks> Yes. I don't know if I need it - and I suppose I shouldn't... But wouldn't you think a vertical axis could be tuned better if you where using a different loop for each direction?
[19:56:37] <jepler> yeah that does seem plausible
[19:58:28] <skunkworks> the big mill is hydraulicly counter balanced - So I guess it shouldn't be as big a deal.
[19:58:59] <skunkworks> It is accually easier for the axis to go up than down
[20:03:25] <jepler> interesting
[20:15:53] <alex_joni> I'm not sure I ever heard of such a system
[20:16:29] <cradek> it seems like you would have some kind of unwanted discontinuity at the reversal
[20:16:44] <alex_joni> or some really bad oscilations which you can't properly tune
[20:17:08] <alex_joni> making 2 different controls working together is pretty hard
[20:21:35] <CIA-5> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/Submakefile: fix a few out-of-range checks in the conv comps. make them depend on Submakefile, since changes to that file can change the generated files.
[20:27:49] <alex_joni> dinner time
[20:29:42] <anonimasu> hm
[20:29:43] <anonimasu> iab
[20:29:49] <anonimasu> making the same part again
[20:30:03] <anonimasu> skunkworks: im ponedring doing that
[20:30:13] <alex_joni> same size ? :-P
[20:30:45] <anonimasu> haha
[20:30:46] <anonimasu> no
[20:30:51] <anonimasu> hm
[20:31:06] <anonimasu> if this parts gets scrapped im going to kill something
[20:31:10] <anonimasu> last pass now
[20:31:55] <anonimasu> now lets see :)
[20:31:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni loves salty yoghurt
[20:32:11] <anonimasu> argh *ZIP* and into the part:
[20:32:13] <anonimasu> j/k
[20:37:27] <anonimasu> PQ­­
[20:37:34] <anonimasu> detach damnit
[20:37:39] <anonimasu> ive got a broken shift
[20:40:23] <anonimasu> the measurements matches up
[20:40:31] <anonimasu> :)
[20:40:45] <anonimasu> ~0.01
[20:42:16] <skunkworks> Cool... Picture?
[20:42:27] <Jymmm> .01 ?! That is UNACCEPTABLE! lol
[20:47:20] <alex_joni> Jymmm: mm not inches ;)
[20:47:56] <skunkworks> so a different pid loop for each direction of movement is bad? Just trying to think outside the box.
[20:47:58] <skunkworks> :)
[20:49:21] <alex_joni> skunkworks: probably so
[20:51:48] <skunkworks> oh what do you know? :)
[20:52:17] <skunkworks> what until I get this machine running and make my design for a perpetual motion machine.
[20:52:28] <skunkworks> and antigrav unit
[20:53:32] <Jymmm> alex_joni: microns ans is UNACCEPTABLE!
[21:04:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra__> Lerneaen_Hydra__ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[21:20:13] <robin_sz> bah ... so, ndiswrapper on etch. compile from source right?
[21:27:04] <anonimasu> lol
[21:27:05] <anonimasu> :)
[21:27:09] <anonimasu> hey robin
[21:27:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> lo anon, robin
[21:27:30] <anonimasu> skunkworks: yeah it sucks..
[21:27:41] <anonimasu> skunkworks: 0.01is a huge deviation from the plot..
[21:28:10] <anonimasu> though I should gear my machine a bit, so I can adjust ie even tighter
[21:28:37] <anonimasu> skunkworks: got a cad of how it looks..
[21:29:49] <anonimasu> skunkworks: www.almaskin.se/fixture.png
[21:30:33] <skunkworks> .01? I hope your kidding
[21:30:47] <anonimasu> im not
[21:30:48] <skunkworks> .01mm?
[21:30:50] <anonimasu> though it's acceptable..
[21:30:52] <anonimasu> :)
[21:31:41] <skunkworks> nice looking part though
[21:31:49] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is half shitting you
[21:31:57] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[21:32:02] <anonimasu> it's a fixture for something im going to make
[21:32:10] <anonimasu> seed thingies..
[21:32:17] <skunkworks> I would say that if you breath on it - it will change more than that
[21:32:20] <skunkworks> :)
[21:33:36] <anonimasu> probably
[21:33:55] <anonimasu> im going to draw a design for some beltboxes..
[21:35:20] <anonimasu> skunkworks: how's the servodrive comming along?
[21:45:49] <skunkworks> Good. Really excited about it.
[21:46:02] <anonimasu> how do they work?
[21:46:18] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Endoder1.JPG
[21:46:21] <anonimasu> and are you planning to release something later :)
[21:46:31] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/mess.JPG
[21:46:32] <alex_joni> yeah.. the brake
[21:46:38] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:46:43] <anonimasu> nice
[21:46:58] <skunkworks> :) So far so good. Just started tuning.
[21:47:23] <anonimasu> if it works really good I'm going to build one if you let me copy yours when you are done :)
[21:47:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is interested in big servodrives
[21:47:55] <skunkworks> The circuit as is is here... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/
[21:47:55] <anonimasu> s/big/cheap&big
[21:48:14] <skunkworks> no current limit yet
[21:48:19] <anonimasu> I need to learn how to etch and stuff
[21:48:22] <anonimasu> who needs that anyway ;)
[21:48:22] <A-L-P-H-A> umm... so when's a new RT kernel coming out for ubuntu 6.1?
[21:48:31] <skunkworks> never :)
[21:48:33] <A-L-P-H-A> or I should just stick with 6.01 for the time being?
[21:48:42] <anonimasu> skunkworks: fuses are a great way to limit current ;)
[21:48:49] <anonimasu> albeit a bit cruse
[21:48:49] <anonimasu> crude :D
[21:48:54] <skunkworks> that is my thought for now
[21:48:55] <skunkworks> :)
[21:49:26] <skunkworks> A-L-P-H-A: as far as I know they are only going to support the lts 6.01
[21:49:26] <anonimasu> if you have a feedback input you can pipe the current draw back..
[21:49:40] <anonimasu> via a shunt and handle it in sofware on the pc :)
[21:49:46] <cradek> the latest realtime kernel is built on 6.06 LTS
[21:49:57] <skunkworks> what cradek said
[21:50:00] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[21:50:17] <anonimasu> skunkworks: what do you think about that?
[21:50:21] <cradek> since it's a long term release I don't know of any plans to build a new kernel anytime soon
[21:50:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni lost interest in the bleeding edge too
[21:50:55] <cradek> (I really like the idea of their LTS releases for this reason)
[21:51:00] <anonimasu> hm, maybe I should program my plc tomorrow and hook it up as spindle load meter :)
[21:51:06] <skunkworks> anonimasu: the next plan is just to put a current sense resister aporx .01ohm and a simple comparator to disable the logic.
[21:51:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> would the next release be for the next version of LTS? (a bit over a year from now?)
[21:51:30] <anonimasu> skunkworks: handling it all on the drive is really nice also
[21:51:51] <anonimasu> spindle load meter(pressure sensor)
[21:51:52] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: no plans yet, but probably
[21:52:05] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: like breezy->dapper there will be an overlap period so people can get converted
[21:52:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that sounds like a good idea imo, no need for XGL in a cnc environment yet ;)
[21:52:27] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:52:29] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:52:36] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is tired
[21:52:46] <cradek> I fear XGL+realtime
[21:52:59] <cradek> actually I fear XGL, but that's another story
[21:53:08] <anonimasu> cradek: yeah, scary stuff
[21:53:11] <robin_sz> i fear proctologists ...
[21:53:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cnc control isn't really the targeted audience ;=
[21:53:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks about trying AixGl
[21:53:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *;)
[22:07:53] <skunkworks> anonimasu: use your mill to cut circuit boards
[22:08:06] <skunkworks> thats what I do.
[22:08:09] <anonimasu> yeah, why not.. I have a small airspindle I could use..
[22:08:13] <skunkworks> and cradek does
[22:09:07] <skunkworks> * skunkworks needs to install eagle on ubuntu to try cradeks script
[22:09:38] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is too lazy to figure out why it doesn't work on windows
[22:09:45] <anonimasu> :)
[22:12:03] <skunkworks> as simple as you can get - emc2->printer port->H-bridge->servo->encoder->printer port short of steppers.
[22:13:30] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is still pretty amazed by it
[22:13:35] <jepler> skunkworks: it is probably a simple path problem
[22:13:49] <jepler> skunkworks: but on ubuntu, turn on the multiverse repository, and you can simply install eagle with 'apt-get install eagle'
[22:14:20] <skunkworks> Yes - I am used to ubuntu enough now that I really don't have an issue using it on ubuntu
[22:14:44] <skunkworks> should install it on my portable. :) (ubuntu)
[22:14:49] <jepler> is eagle different between windows and linux?
[22:14:56] <jepler> (I've never used it on linux)
[22:14:56] <jepler> er, on windows
[22:15:02] <skunkworks> * skunkworks doesn't know if he is ready for it.
[22:15:34] <SWPadnos> it looks pretty similar to me on both platforms
[22:15:46] <skunkworks> not that I know of - jmkasunich modified my circuit on ubuntu - then I finished it on windows
[22:15:54] <skunkworks> no issues
[22:17:14] <skunkworks> I should say linux. I think he just recently went to ubuntu
[22:17:47] <SWPadnos> he's had ubuntu on one workstation for several months, so you were probably also correct the first time :)
[22:17:55] <skunkworks> ah]
[22:18:23] <SWPadnos> since the compile farm changes, since the ubuntu compile farm slot is his workstation
[22:28:55] <alex_joni> heh .. the latest BOFH is nice
[22:29:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> link?
[22:29:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or where are they located rather?
[22:30:26] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/10/bofh_2006_episode_38/
[22:33:12] <alex_joni> http://www.everytopicintheuniverseexceptchickens.com/
[22:35:27] <anonimasu> never ever click random links.
[22:35:32] <anonimasu> http://www.petardas.com/cositas/sorpresa
[22:36:36] <alex_joni> ohh.. a picture of anders
[22:36:40] <anonimasu> no
[22:36:42] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:37:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: the really funny bit is that the article on chickens is locked due to vandalism
[22:37:21] <alex_joni> yeah.. noticed that
[22:44:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night people
[23:15:43] <robin_z> * robin_z is happy
[23:16:46] <robin_z> my laptop eat its harddrive lasty week ... I got a new drive, installed debian etch, built ndiswrapper and installed the Windows driver fro the wireless card and ... it all works,. nice wireless laptop, no problem
[23:17:13] <robin_z> linux is gettign WAY easier than it used to be
[23:17:32] <anonimasu> robin_z: there's also madwifi
[23:17:54] <robin_z> not for thsi card I dont think
[23:18:20] <robin_z> linksys WPC54G
[23:36:54] <alex_joni> night all
[23:40:30] <robin_z> night ...
[23:40:34] <anonimasu> I night
[23:40:39] <anonimasu> :D
[23:40:45] <robin_z> do you?
[23:41:04] <robin_z> so busy this week ...
[23:41:14] <robin_z> employed another welder ....
[23:41:32] <robin_z> interviewing another tomorow
[23:43:24] <anonimasu> nice
[23:43:59] <robin_z> I know the guy tomorow is very very good ... seen his work
[23:45:02] <anonimasu> :)
[23:45:38] <robin_z> how are you?