#emc | Logs for 2006-11-08

[01:36:19] <skunkworksemc> hello?
[01:38:36] <skunkworksemc> oops
[01:40:38] <skunkworksemc> if max dc is 1500 rpm.. and that equates to 500 ipm... how do I calculate the pwmgen scale?
[01:41:20] <skunkworksemc> or am I totally not understanding this? :)
[01:42:31] <skunkworksemc> base period is 20000
[02:16:09] <skunkworksemc> Freakin cool
[02:22:13] <jmkasunich> skunkworksemc: that depends on what units you want the input to the pwmgen to be
[02:23:45] <skunkworksemc> I hacked apart jeplers etchosketch file to play with (replacing freq-gen with pwmgen. among other things ;))
[02:24:45] <skunkworksemc> I closed the loop - and it actually seems to work - I can try to spin it and it fights back..
[02:24:45] <jmkasunich> normally I'd want the output of the PID (input to pwmgen) to be approximately the speed in inches/sec (or mm/sec, if that is your ini file units)
[02:25:20] <jmkasunich> so, max duty cycle (1.0) = 500 ipm, = 8.33 ips
[02:25:35] <jmkasunich> so I'd try setting scale to about 8.3
[02:34:32] <skunkworksemc> Cool - just cool . The loop definatly needs to be tuned. I can only go about 60ipm (virtual as I don't have it hooked to anything) before I get a following error.
[02:34:43] <skunkworksemc> But atleast I can see it work
[02:34:47] <skunkworksemc> :)
[02:43:43] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07new_cl_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/manager_gtk.c: fix minor warning
[03:02:59] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Endoder1.JPG
[03:03:25] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Encoder.JPG
[03:03:55] <skunkworks> No - I do not have the heatsinks mounted yet :) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/mess.JPG
[03:11:36] <jmkasunich> nice lookin PC board ;-)
[03:12:05] <skunkworks> very nice - thanks again. No hickups at all.
[03:12:34] <jmkasunich> it looks like theres a lot more copper on the top than I recall
[03:12:42] <jmkasunich> I guess thats because of mechanical etching?
[03:12:57] <jmkasunich> (the floods around the driver chips)
[03:13:04] <skunkworks> yes - I did not mill it clear for this one. I need to pick up some 1/16 end mills for that
[03:13:19] <jmkasunich> the flood is probably good, except...
[03:13:40] <jmkasunich> you need to maintain voltage clearances between the motor terminals and the rest of the circuit
[03:13:50] <jmkasunich> similar to that wide clear area down the center
[03:14:33] <skunkworks> right. (I actually played around with pealing the copper off (why it is missing in the middle)
[03:14:46] <jmkasunich> I guess you are working with fairly low voltage so far?
[03:15:05] <skunkworks> yes - 80v is max right now.
[03:15:38] <skunkworks> I have the copper clad now to make a few more.. These I will mill clear.
[03:15:39] <jmkasunich> as long as you keep it clean, 0.030 or so gap is probalby good for 100V or mode
[03:15:41] <jmkasunich> more
[03:15:56] <jmkasunich> but once it gets dust and dirt and moisture on it...
[03:16:39] <jmkasunich> I like at least 0.0005 per volt, prefer more
[03:17:52] <skunkworks> That is easy to remember. I liked being able to turn the shaft and have the positision change in axis
[03:18:13] <skunkworks> first time having encoders hooked up to emc
[03:18:17] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:18:20] <jmkasunich> fun ain't it
[03:18:24] <skunkworks> yes - hooked
[03:19:28] <skunkworks> at a period of 50000 - it looks like around 1500 rpm is the limit of counting (viewing it within halscope)
[03:19:33] <skunkworks> sorry 20000
[03:19:46] <jmkasunich> how many ppr on the encoder?
[03:19:56] <skunkworks> 400 line - 1600 edges
[03:20:21] <jmkasunich> 1500 rpm = 25 rps * 1600 = 40000 counts/sec
[03:20:31] <jmkasunich> 20000nS period = 50000 interrupts/sec
[03:20:38] <jmkasunich> so you are certainly pushing the limit
[03:20:47] <jmkasunich> 2:1 ratio is safer
[03:21:22] <skunkworks> yes - actually 1200 rpm is what I was looking for.. and maybe a faster computer - this is only a 600mhz
[03:21:43] <skunkworks> but still pretty cool
[03:31:22] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: no issues at all with pwmgen. Nice work.
[03:31:40] <jmkasunich> thanks
[03:44:57] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07new_cl_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: fixed a pair of warnings
[04:09:45] <skunkworks> ok - time for bed. THanks for the help. (tempted to put this servo on the z axis of the gantry - again just to play)
[04:20:56] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07new_cl_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder_gtk.c: fix my fix - I accidentally removed a comment start token
[04:22:39] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich 07new_cl_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/edit_sequential.c: fixed another pair of warnings
[07:19:01] <LawrenceG> goodnight
[13:02:04] <alex_joni> hi samco
[13:02:41] <alex_joni> skunkworks: got some CAM app you're using usually?
[13:02:47] <skunkworks> Good moring alex. How is it going?
[13:03:03] <skunkworks> normally acad - 2000 is the newest I have used.
[13:03:15] <alex_joni> with CAM plugin?
[13:03:31] <Jymmm> Picked up a linksys WRT54GL, gonna try to setup the open source firmware on it.
[13:03:39] <alex_joni> Jymmm: good luck
[13:03:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Why's that?
[13:04:18] <skunkworks> sorry - to early to actually read your question. I have just used dxf to gcode converters.
[13:04:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni this one is labeled "Open Source" right on the box
[13:07:52] <alex_joni> Jymmm: no particular issues, just if a programming goes wrong, then you probably have no way to cure it
[13:09:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni It has a JTAG port, and two serial ports (internally)
[13:09:21] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I know that.. but do you have a JTAG interface?
[13:09:47] <alex_joni> serials are useless if the firmware is busted
[13:09:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni working on it =)
[13:10:39] <alex_joni> I wish you that you'll never need to use it
[13:11:02] <Jymmm> me too, but I have 30 days to fubar it =)
[13:17:36] <skunkworks> that just doesn't seem right ;)
[13:18:11] <Jymmm> skunkworks Hey, I didn't write the liberal return policy, just abuse it (when needed)
[13:18:13] <Jymmm> =)
[13:18:28] <skunkworks> alex_joni: I closed the loop last night - freaking awesome
[13:39:25] <skunkworks> would the pwmggen.scale normally be
[13:39:29] <skunkworks> oops
[13:40:23] <skunkworks> would the pwmgen.scale normally be hooked to output_scale?
[13:43:10] <skunkworks> or is output scale used for something else?
[13:43:27] <skunkworks> (if I where using pwmgen for my application ;))
[13:44:21] <alex_joni> wot's output_scale?
[13:49:28] <skunkworks> in the ini file
[13:51:10] <skunkworks> input_scale and output_scale. input_scale is hooked to the encoder module. iirc So I would think output_scale should be hooked to the pwmgen scale.
[13:51:38] <skunkworks> (to scale what 100%pwm is in velocity)
[13:53:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://www.duff.dk/wrt54gs/pics/reuter_lcd.jpg
[14:22:50] <alex_joni> skunkworks: right
[14:46:07] <skunkworks> also the pwmgen.0.enable should probably be hooked to the estop logic?
[14:46:43] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[14:47:28] <alex_joni> skunkworks: axis.0.enable
[14:47:33] <alex_joni> or something like that
[14:49:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads home
[14:49:10] <alex_joni> later all
[14:49:14] <rayh> see you alex.
[15:02:06] <skunkworks> emc2 is cool :)
[15:12:45] <jepler> we should rename it to: e^{\pi\sqrt{-1}}+1
[15:12:59] <jepler> http://xkcd.com/c179.html
[15:20:01] <anonimasu> lol
[15:21:29] <skunkworks> Jepler: I hacked apart your etch-o-sketch setup to play with my servo. Worked great.
[15:21:49] <skunkworks> got rid of a bunch of stuff and changed it to pwmgen
[15:21:49] <jepler> skunkworks: glad to hear it
[15:22:11] <jepler> I thought I checked in a pwmgen version already
[15:22:13] <jepler> did I not do that?
[15:22:26] <skunkworks> you probably did - but I don't have the latest head
[15:22:28] <jepler> oh
[15:23:51] <skunkworks> Needs to be tuned with my setup - seems to have a very slow dampened osolation when it stops. :)
[15:24:16] <skunkworks> plus I can only get around 60ipm out of it before there is a following error.
[15:24:33] <skunkworks> did not play at all with tuning it.
[15:25:35] <anonimasu> http://xkcd.com/c123.html
[15:28:26] <alex_joni> skunkworks: sounds like more P and D needed
[15:29:06] <skunkworks> You would know more than me :) I have never played with servo loops (pid)
[15:29:36] <jepler> there's some documentation on it now, swiped from wikipedia by alex
[15:29:45] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html
[15:29:49] <jepler> bbl
[15:30:49] <skunkworks> Yes - that is my starting point. I want to play with the - increase p until it osloates - then increase I until it stops - and then increase d until I get the response I want ( what ever that means)
[15:31:00] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you got it
[15:31:05] <alex_joni> that's as much as I understand too :P
[15:31:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni still waits for someone to correct or expend that pid page
[15:32:51] <alex_joni> argh.. I just managed to flip back two of my nails
[15:32:54] <skunkworks> ouch
[15:33:04] <skunkworks> I just cringed when you said that.
[15:33:08] <alex_joni> not completely though.. but it hurts like hell
[15:33:21] <alex_joni> they seem back in place now :/
[15:33:36] <skunkworks> nothing a little super glue won't fix ;)
[15:34:52] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:35:06] <alex_joni> l=e^{\pi\sqrt{-1}}+1 h
[15:35:11] <alex_joni> as jeff put it :)
[15:54:13] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:11:27] <Hydra_AFK> Hydra_AFK is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[17:21:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[17:21:38] <ejholmgren1> for the same price ...
[17:21:54] <ejholmgren1> would it be better to get 3 older centent stepper drives
[17:22:01] <ejholmgren1> or get a xylotex 3-axis?
[17:23:50] <ejholmgren1> the centents would be eBay'ed so no warranty or support ...
[17:24:00] <ejholmgren1> but they seem alot more robust than the xylo
[17:25:17] <jepler> I don't have experience with either one
[17:25:59] <ejholmgren1> the person who designed the centents makes the gekos now, correct?
[17:37:22] <SWPadnos> yes - Mariss used to own Centent
[17:41:09] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: did you see the pictures of the encoder wheel and sensor I got from usdigital?
[17:41:50] <SWPadnos> nope - I looked at the board photo though :)
[17:42:14] <SWPadnos> ok - just looked. cool stuff
[17:42:25] <SWPadnos> what's the diameter of the wheel?
[17:42:48] <SWPadnos> oh - 2"
[17:42:49] <skunkworks> 2 inch
[17:42:54] <skunkworks> :)
[17:43:17] <skunkworks> you can get them in 1 inch also - just thought this would be easier to handle
[17:43:32] <SWPadnos> yeah. I have a lens motor application where I'd like a 0.5" wheel :)
[17:43:47] <skunkworks> cool
[17:44:07] <SWPadnos> the 0.894 (or whatever) should be OK, though the max 300 or 360 line encoder could be a problem
[17:44:09] <skunkworks> how many lines?
[17:44:11] <skunkworks> ah
[17:44:29] <SWPadnos> I may go with a reflective linear strip on the lens barrel itself instead
[17:52:02] <skunkworks> cradek: I thought you put your servo lathe files on cvs
[17:52:15] <SWPadnos> nist-lathe?
[17:52:24] <skunkworks> no - his personal one
[17:52:27] <SWPadnos> ah
[17:52:44] <SWPadnos> I don't think he has one
[17:53:03] <SWPadnos> he was using the spindle on his MaxNC for a lathe, until he got the NIST unit
[17:54:30] <skunkworks> he has a smaller mini lathe like the nist one - it is the one that he put the small servos on
[17:54:33] <skunkworks> iirc
[17:54:33] <cradek> the config for my servo lathe is not in cvs...
[17:55:07] <cradek> I'm not sure it's useful to anyone else because it's odd homemade hardware running it
[17:55:08] <skunkworks> cradek: have we had this conversation before? sorry :)
[17:55:16] <cradek> it's ok
[18:07:45] <alex_joni> hi
[18:09:30] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[18:12:38] <alex_joni> the superglue worked :D
[18:12:56] <skunkworks> funny ;)
[18:13:33] <alex_joni> 2h of massage worked even better to forget about it :P
[18:20:51] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone else find http://del.icio.us not working?
[18:41:51] <alex_joni> http://xkcd.com/c117.html
[18:41:51] <alex_joni> lol
[19:00:47] <SWPadnos> woohoo! Rumsfeld is out!
[19:01:59] <anonimasu> I wonder what idiot that will replace him
[19:02:25] <SWPadnos> err - somebody Gates (not Bill), who used to be the head of the CIA
[19:02:54] <SWPadnos> he's a friend of Bush senior, but not a "neocon", so his approach to military
[19:03:04] <SWPadnos> he's a friend of Bush senior, but not a "neocon", so his approach should be different
[19:03:12] <SWPadnos> (darned enter key - who put that there?)
[19:05:39] <alex_joni> might have been Gates
[19:06:38] <alex_joni> ROFL http://xkcd.com/c178.html
[19:06:45] <SWPadnos> Robert Gates, according to CNN
[19:07:04] <cradek> there's all sorts of good news today.
[19:07:19] <alex_joni> cradek, SWPadnos : glad it makes you happy
[19:07:24] <SWPadnos> yeah - ust waiting for the senate outcome ;)
[19:07:30] <SWPadnos> s/ust/just/
[19:09:12] <cradek> SWPadnos: it appears to be in the bag to me.
[19:09:33] <cradek> the leads are above the threshold of auto-recount, so both guys would have to pay to have it done
[19:09:40] <SWPadnos> I sure hope so - CNN shows 50 D and 49R, 1 undecided
[19:09:51] <cradek> which one did they say is over?
[19:09:56] <SWPadnos> strangely, they don't show Bernmie Sanders, the independent senator
[19:10:01] <SWPadnos> Bernie
[19:10:23] <cradek> independocrat?
[19:10:49] <SWPadnos> that may be their idea :)
[19:11:27] <SWPadnos> he's slightly left of the normal dem position, but they decided not to field a candiadate to compete with him, and supported his independent campaign
[19:11:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't get US politics
[19:12:00] <alex_joni> I'm not complaining though :)
[19:12:01] <cradek> CNN is showing MT decided
[19:12:08] <SWPadnos> I wish I could have voted for Craig Hill instead - he had exactly correct answers to every question in the debate I saw
[19:12:22] <SWPadnos> it's Virginia that's still counting
[19:12:41] <cradek> but they aren't going to make up 6000 votes in any recount in VA
[19:13:01] <SWPadnos> well, the margin may be close enough for an automatic recount
[19:13:13] <cradek> no I understand it's not (.5% is the threshold)
[19:13:39] <SWPadnos> 7000 / 2300000 = 0.3%
[19:13:50] <cradek> oh, hmm
[19:14:00] <SWPadnos> the rounding gets you on the web page ;)
[19:15:46] <cradek> bye bye rick santorum!
[19:15:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:16:21] <SWPadnos> I just watched the Pres. press conference - he's all about "working together to find common ground" now :)
[19:16:35] <skunkworks> my very conservative programmer pretty much thinks the world is coming to an end ;)
[19:16:41] <SWPadnos> too bad that didn't matter to him for the last 6 years
[19:16:45] <SWPadnos> good
[19:16:45] <SWPadnos> :)
[19:16:50] <giacus> helloooo
[19:17:03] <giacus> congrats US :P
[19:17:07] <SWPadnos> Prego, giacus
[19:17:09] <giacus> heh
[19:17:09] <SWPadnos> grazie
[19:17:17] <giacus> ciao SWPadnos :))
[19:17:21] <cradek> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/walker66/santorum3.jpg
[19:17:21] <giacus> very niceee
[19:17:22] <SWPadnos> ciao
[19:17:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:17:34] <giacus> ;-)
[19:17:51] <giacus> hahahah
[19:17:52] <SWPadnos> I think even the little girl's doll is crying
[19:18:01] <giacus> it seem so
[19:18:03] <cradek> the boy's look is funnier
[19:18:06] <giacus> :)
[19:18:22] <SWPadnos> "well kids, things are going to be a little different around the house - daddy's just lost his job" ;)
[19:18:23] <ChrisSmol> hi all. i've ordered a micro mill and hope to be doing the CNC mods to it in the coming months.
[19:18:46] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: Welcome
[19:18:49] <cradek> ChrisSmol: hi, don't mind the election talk
[19:18:56] <SWPadnos> ChrisSmol, good plan :)
[19:19:08] <cradek> SWPadnos: "daddy's going to be around a lot more from now on..."
[19:19:23] <ChrisSmol> i'm just happy with the election over, i won't be getting 10 automated calls a day on the phone :-)
[19:19:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:19:34] <giacus> :D
[19:19:45] <cradek> ChrisSmol: did you know my opponent SWPadnos likes to eat puppies?
[19:20:18] <ChrisSmol> heh. our gop senate candidate had some ads about puppies
[19:20:26] <SWPadnos> mmmm - they're almost as good as humand, in a light cream sauce
[19:20:27] <SWPadnos> humans
[19:20:34] <cradek> wow, I just can't have an original idea
[19:20:36] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:20:39] <ChrisSmol> so, for software, it seems to be between ENC and TurboCNC
[19:20:52] <SWPadnos> that's so unoriginal, especially in Vietnam
[19:20:58] <SWPadnos> EMC, hands down
[19:21:11] <SWPadnos> unless you only have a 486DX2/66 available
[19:21:18] <cradek> are you asking on the #emc channel which one we suggest?
[19:21:39] <cradek> but seriously, I think skunkworks has used both
[19:21:59] <ChrisSmol> i don't expect to get an unbiased answer here ;-)
[19:22:18] <SWPadnos> and one of the "A" people - anonimasu or A-L-P-H-A
[19:22:29] <SWPadnos> (not Alex though)
[19:23:14] <ChrisSmol> anyway, i have a, hmm, amd k5 or k6 machine that already has rh9 with the rtlinux kernel on it that i could use (i do some realtime linux consulting and that's an old leftover machine from ages ago), but it sounds like a p2 or p3 is preferred?
[19:23:39] <SWPadnos> it depends on how you expect to control the motors
[19:24:03] <cradek> we have not tested rtlinux support for about a year, but nobody has taken it out on purpose...
[19:24:03] <SWPadnos> if you want to use a parallel port for step/direction, then the k5/k6 may be a little slow
[19:24:10] <ChrisSmol> yeah, i am thinking parallel port
[19:24:19] <SWPadnos> the compile farm still has an RTLinux slot, I think
[19:24:23] <SWPadnos> but it hasn't been run tested
[19:24:27] <cradek> oh? maybe I'm wrong
[19:24:30] <ChrisSmol> i do a fair bit of electronics work, so i can easily build some stepper motor drivers
[19:24:30] <cradek> ok
[19:24:38] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: emc2 hands down + axis as the interface.
[19:25:03] <ChrisSmol> i also have a 1 ghz p3 that i could probably use, i was doing some mythtv stuff on it, but i've lost interest with that.
[19:25:06] <SWPadnos> well, there is a very simple way to double the step rate via parallel port - use quadrature output from the PC, and make external logic to convert that to step/dir
[19:25:20] <SWPadnos> that'll double the software step rate fro about $5
[19:25:53] <ChrisSmol> i haven't even started to round up the motors, etc. heck, the machine won't even be here until monday
[19:26:25] <SWPadnos> if you have a budget for it, then there's also a $250 device that hangs off a parallell port, and has an FPGA-based step generator, plus 16 inputs and 8 outputs (using SSRs on the board)
[19:26:37] <SWPadnos> http://www.[pico-systems.com/motion I think
[19:26:40] <anonimasu> 4n2hm
[19:26:41] <SWPadnos> -[
[19:26:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.pico-systems.com/motion I think
[19:26:48] <ChrisSmol> i am mostly going to be working on plastic with it, except perhaps a little work with aluminum, and that would really just be to make holders, etc for the real machining work.
[19:26:57] <anonimasu> does anyone of you hvae a idea about a cheap maerial to do prototyping in ?
[19:27:24] <SWPadnos> what do the prototypes have to do? (ie, are they just for fit/shape, or do they need to actually work for a little while)
[19:27:30] <anonimasu> they just need to look nice
[19:27:39] <anonimasu> mostly for practice..
[19:27:40] <SWPadnos> wood
[19:27:41] <ChrisSmol> mostly i want to put holes and cutouts in plastic enclosures, and maybe engrave some text in them. also make some simple prototype pcbs, probably just single sided
[19:27:45] <anonimasu> not wood..
[19:27:46] <anonimasu> :)
[19:28:13] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: how did you hear about emc?
[19:28:18] <SWPadnos> it depends on your definition of cheap then. some kind of plastic, other than nylon
[19:28:30] <ChrisSmol> saw a url while googling
[19:28:30] <anonimasu> acetal is pretty expensive
[19:28:33] <anonimasu> so is wax
[19:28:39] <anonimasu> or well
[19:28:42] <anonimasu> wax seems hard to get..
[19:28:59] <SWPadnos> UHMW plastic is good, but also somewhat expensive
[19:29:02] <cradek> ChrisSmol: http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[19:29:28] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I do most stuff in alu now, but for test cutting parts for joy/getting better at machining..
[19:29:33] <anonimasu> :)
[19:29:36] <ChrisSmol> ahh, nice url, looks interesting
[19:29:46] <SWPadnos> PVC?
[19:29:49] <cradek> skunkworks: is turbocnc the one that does exact stop only?
[19:29:54] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/Dapper.png
[19:29:56] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how well it machines though - heat would be a problem
[19:30:04] <skunkworks> cradek: yes
[19:30:07] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I've got flood coolant :)
[19:30:18] <anonimasu> turbocnc sucks.
[19:30:22] <anonimasu> it does work... but :)
[19:30:33] <SWPadnos> the only problem would be getting these materials in blocks instead of e.g. pipe :)
[19:31:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:31:24] <skunkworks> they keep talking about adding blending - but have not yet.
[19:31:54] <ChrisSmol> so, looks like just installing Ubuntu would be the path of least resistance?
[19:32:01] <anonimasu> the livecd :)
[19:32:02] <anonimasu> yes
[19:32:12] <cradek> if you haven't downloaded it yet, just grab the livecd and you can look at emc without even installing anything
[19:32:13] <SWPadnos> yes, but probably not on the K5/K6 machine
[19:32:27] <ChrisSmol> right, i was thinking the 1 ghz P3
[19:32:36] <alex_joni> wtf http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/microsoft_novell_suse_linux/ ?
[19:32:47] <SWPadnos> Note that the LiveCD really works best on a computer with 512M or more. You can have less after it's installed though
[19:32:48] <ChrisSmol> i think it has 512MB. i can't remember anymore, too many computers here ;-)
[19:32:54] <anonimasu> alex_joni: fear :D
[19:33:19] <cradek> alex_joni: novell pays microsoft when they sell free software, and microsoft agrees not to sue novell's customers
[19:33:24] <SWPadnos> Novell has just signed a deal with MS to get $348M over the next few years
[19:33:41] <cradek> it's a strange world isn't it
[19:33:53] <SWPadnos> I wish I could get people to pay me to not sue them
[19:33:58] <SWPadnos> or others
[19:33:59] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[19:34:03] <ChrisSmol> unfortunately hamfest season is over here, so i'll have to start checking ebay for cheap steppers
[19:34:14] <cradek> it's funny to watch companies try to figure out how to deal with free software
[19:34:18] <SWPadnos> I haven't sued anyone yet, so it would be nice to get paid for maintaining the status quo
[19:34:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[19:34:41] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: where abouts are you located?
[19:35:05] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: who would you sue?
[19:35:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think you need to get known as the one who always sues
[19:35:19] <skunkworks> mcdonalds ;)
[19:35:20] <SWPadnos> well, nobody. I'd just like to get paid for it ;)
[19:35:26] <alex_joni> before they pay you money not to
[19:35:27] <anonimasu> lol
[19:35:32] <SWPadnos> err - for not doing it
[19:35:40] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: become a lawyer
[19:35:43] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:35:43] <ChrisSmol> i'm in maryland (usa) about an hour northwest of baltimore
[19:35:47] <SWPadnos> no thanks. it's not worth it
[19:35:56] <SWPadnos> Ah - Mushroom country
[19:36:03] <alex_joni> ChrisSmol: there was an attempt to make a map of emc users
[19:36:10] <alex_joni> it's at frappr.com/emc2
[19:36:26] <alex_joni> but they changed from google to yahoo, and it kinda sux now :/
[19:36:26] <ChrisSmol> hah, i worked for a patent lawyer for 5 years. now i really want the uspto to be shut down ;-)
[19:37:19] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:37:28] <anonimasu> this part will be nice to see how it ends up
[19:39:55] <ChrisSmol> i'll grab the live-cd and play around a little with it
[19:40:51] <anonimasu> that's also the install cd :)
[19:40:51] <skunkworks> ChrisSmol: good luck - I am not a linux person - the way the gurus here have it set up now - installs are painless.
[19:41:08] <alex_joni> heh: "As Scott Ambler said in a seminar once, .always remember, the vendor isn.t your friend.. Even if it suits their marketing strategies to appear friendly and helpful, few vendors are purely altruistic . even if they try hard to be customer focused, shareholders usually have to come first."
[19:41:43] <A-L-P-H-A> autistic alex_joni?
[19:41:53] <cradek> ChrisSmol: the live CD is a normal ubuntu install too, and it has most of the updates since 6.06 was released
[19:42:16] <ChrisSmol> super
[19:42:18] <A-L-P-H-A> 6.06.
[19:42:22] <A-L-P-H-A> 6.06.1
[19:42:21] <cradek> ChrisSmol: we just wanted to make it easier for folks, but it's still ubuntu
[19:42:50] <A-L-P-H-A> without the normal kernel, but a RT kernel.
[19:42:54] <ChrisSmol> know what the minimum hd size would be for an install?
[19:42:54] <cradek> right
[19:43:11] <cradek> it takes right under 2G, so a 4G is best
[19:43:14] <A-L-P-H-A> ChrisSmol, if you can spare 4 gigs, I'd give it 4 gigs.
[19:43:15] <ChrisSmol> i think i have a spare 10gb drive laying around
[19:44:22] <skunkworks> I have it isntalled on a 600mhz pIII with 256mb ram 10gb hd.. Works great.
[19:44:55] <skunkworks> ran it on a 450mhz II for a while also - but that was the breezy install
[19:45:20] <ChrisSmol> wow, download speed is slow
[19:45:23] <cradek> ChrisSmol: some basic hardware information: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements
[19:45:37] <ChrisSmol> ahh, almost 3 pm, kiddies are home from school now, downloading mp3 files
[19:46:45] <A-L-P-H-A_> great.
[19:46:52] <A-L-P-H-A_> my ip just decided to randomly change.
[19:47:39] <skunkworks> its called a 'dynamic ip address' ;)
[19:48:50] <A-L-P-H-A_> thank you sherlock! but my ip was stable for usually a year
[19:49:02] <alex_joni> skunkworks: not if you can afford a static one :)
[19:49:16] <A-L-P-H-A_> I think a static is 10/month extra
[19:49:17] <A-L-P-H-A_> rip
[19:49:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> why not just get a dyndns.org/similar account?
[19:50:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> works for me (my ip changes once a week or so, whenever the network cable decides to jump out of it's socket)
[19:50:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there's even auto-updaters for the dynamic adress that update it on getting a new ip
[19:53:23] <alex_joni> whoa .. novell is sick.. having so many products they need to have an alphabetic index
[19:53:27] <alex_joni> http://www.novell.com/products/
[19:54:35] <skunkworks> that is why we are still using 4.11
[20:22:49] <alex_joni> http://www.autof1.ro/index/Video_limitare_viteza_Danemarca.html lol
[20:44:10] <anonimasu> hm
[20:44:13] <giacus> hah!
[20:44:19] <SWPadnos> ho!
[20:45:06] <cradek> nsfw
[20:45:14] <SWPadnos> nfw
[20:45:21] <skunkworks> nws
[20:45:23] <alex_joni> it's safe for driving
[20:46:19] <anonimasu> 3d work is slow *nnngh*
[20:47:10] <anonimasu> does anyone have a good idea about feeds and speeds for carbide tooling?
[20:52:52] <ChrisSmol> hey, the disc image download is done
[20:55:38] <cradek> you can get a lot of data in an hour nowadays can't you
[20:57:16] <alex_joni> sure can
[20:57:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: hahahaha
[20:57:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I especially liked the danish truckers
[20:57:57] <alex_joni> guess where parts of "Borat!: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan" are filmed ?
[21:01:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, .ro?
[21:01:54] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: you're correct ;)
[21:02:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra gasp!
[21:02:05] <alex_joni> "The film opens in Kazakhstan, although it was filmed in Romania"
[21:02:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cool
[21:02:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is it any good?
[21:05:12] <alex_joni> no idea
[21:05:28] <alex_joni> just read about it.. it's supposed to be very offensive
[21:06:22] <alex_joni> there's a trailer here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443453/trailers-screenplay-E28011-10-2
[21:10:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I need a doze box to display that..
[21:10:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> offensive sounds good
[21:12:09] <alex_joni> http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/movies/mmx-061103-movies-review-borat,0,784347.story
[21:12:18] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: ubuntu plays it just fine
[21:12:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it seemed to be wmv-asf
[21:12:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra is running a bastardized doze box
[21:12:52] <anonimasu> :)
[21:13:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ie less bad than a normal setup, but still no good ;)
[21:15:54] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install w32codecs
[21:16:08] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: for doze.. ACE Mega Codecs pack
[21:17:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the problem seems to be that it's streaming-only
[21:17:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so no single file to grab
[21:18:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra never uses anything other than mjpeg/mpeg4/h264 for anything useful
[21:18:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> mpeg4 or variants
[21:19:35] <alex_joni> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443453/trailers
[21:19:49] <alex_joni> there's a flash trailer too
[21:19:52] <alex_joni> bet that one works
[21:20:23] <alex_joni> http://trailersforthemasses.blogspot.com/2006/07/borat-2006-trailer.html
[21:23:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha, looks great
[21:23:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra is remined of "herr string emil" wrt the sunbathing bit
[21:24:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> NSFW(the front page is semi-sfw, some subsections are very nsfw)!! http://www.string-emil.de/
[21:25:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, wonderous high-school, where classmates manage to find the pages that are the epitome of the net
[21:28:58] <alex_joni> :-/
[21:30:23] <anonimasu> :)
[21:44:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bah, g'night people
[21:45:09] <alex_joni> night
[21:50:30] <ChrisSmol> hmm, ubuntu doesn't seem to like the dell's video
[21:50:48] <alex_joni> ChrisSmol: onboard?
[21:53:41] <ChrisSmol> yeah
[21:53:49] <ChrisSmol> i dropped down to 1024z768, seems fine now
[21:53:52] <alex_joni> big no-no
[21:53:53] <ChrisSmol> i remember redhat had issues as well
[21:54:42] <ChrisSmol> will it cause issues with emc?
[21:54:50] <ChrisSmol> i know shared memory sometimes does
[21:54:55] <skunkworks> make sure you run a rati test on your hardware.
[21:54:59] <cradek> you can try and see, but quite possibly
[21:55:25] <cradek> some are ok, but it seems like most aren't
[21:55:26] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[21:55:30] <skunkworks> 1.2
[21:57:54] <skunkworks> I have a question about pid tuning again :) I am not in front of emc - but I seem to remember a menu item to be able to adjust the pid values directly. Was I just dreaming or is there a way to do this? (instead of editing the ini file saving and restarting emc)
[21:58:02] <cradek> very recent versions of EMC2 will warn you if a problem is detected with the realtime system
[21:58:24] <cradek> skunkworks: there is a tuning program that lets you change them
[21:58:46] <cradek> skunkworks: you can also just use halcmd, since the pid parameters are in hal (that's what the gui does, pretty much)
[21:58:53] <alex_joni> skunkworks: the pid's are HAL parameters
[21:59:03] <alex_joni> you can just tune them with halcmd or halshow
[21:59:15] <alex_joni> they used to be in tkemc going through NML, but that path is ripped out of emc2
[21:59:42] <skunkworks> cool - thanks guys - more playing tonight hopefully
[22:00:23] <cradek> one of these days I want to try the zigler-mumble method on my lathe
[22:00:33] <skunkworks> I saw that on the wiki
[22:01:09] <alex_joni> nichols
[22:01:54] <skunkworks> where woukd you get the critical gain figure
[22:01:54] <alex_joni> cradek: AXIS (Menu)Machine->Autotune
[22:01:59] <cradek> alex_joni: SMOP
[22:01:59] <alex_joni> skunkworks: halscope?
[22:02:10] <alex_joni> cradek: SMOAP
[22:02:24] <cradek> why can't I find that wiki page?
[22:02:25] <skunkworks> what is it a measurement of I guess is more what I mean
[22:02:32] <alex_joni> wiki?
[22:02:35] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html
[22:02:40] <cradek> ah
[22:02:49] <alex_joni> it's not wiki.. it's in the handbook
[22:03:03] <cradek> all I could find was a wiki page jmk wrote about tuning that doesn't have anything about tuning
[22:03:08] <ChrisSmol> hmm
[22:03:11] <skunkworks> right :)
[22:03:25] <ChrisSmol> i ran the latency test, everthing looked ok. then i hit ^c to stop it, and the computer rebooted
[22:03:36] <cradek> ouch
[22:03:55] <cradek> on the emc2 live cd?
[22:03:58] <ChrisSmol> yes
[22:04:02] <skunkworks> oops - when you run the latency test - did you open and close programs and move them around?
[22:04:03] <ChrisSmol> i ran it from a terminal window
[22:04:11] <ChrisSmol> i didn't do anything
[22:04:10] <cradek> you didn't have emc running did you?
[22:04:23] <ChrisSmol> just ran the test for a first time. oh yeah, emc was running i think ;-)
[22:04:25] <cradek> ah
[22:04:29] <ChrisSmol> heh
[22:04:31] <cradek> try not doing that :-)
[22:04:29] <alex_joni> that might be a problem
[22:04:34] <ChrisSmol> whoops
[22:04:43] <cradek> we should add it to the docs
[22:04:44] <alex_joni> it's removing a module or such probably
[22:05:10] <ChrisSmol> ok, let me make the devices and try again. when it finishes booting
[22:05:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: got pics from fest somewhere.. mind passing me the link?
[22:06:01] <skunkworks> I Understand the period of oscillation - I just don't know what they mean by critical gain
[22:06:15] <cradek> critical gain is the P gain where it starts oscillating
[22:06:24] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/
[22:07:09] <skunkworks> oh - that seems easy then :)
[22:07:19] <skunkworks> cool
[22:08:04] <skunkworks> so all you would really have to measure is the period of oscillation. then plug the p and period into the formula. cool
[22:08:43] <cradek> yeah it's so simple, I wonder if it works
[22:08:51] <skunkworks> I think I could handle that. ;)
[22:08:59] <cradek> me too
[22:09:08] <skunkworks> might have to try that tonight :)
[22:09:40] <cradek> perviously I used the Cradek-Skunkworks method of dinking with the numbers for a few hours until it seemed to work ok
[22:10:13] <cradek> I still like your cradeksthread photo
[22:10:40] <cradek> that was a nice catch, and it's surprisingly sharp considering how fast things were moving (and how dark it was inside)
[22:12:10] <skunkworks> it was all my father. He loves taking tons of pictures.
[22:12:17] <skunkworks> I will pass it on.
[22:12:58] <alex_joni> cradek: he's just showing off the work of other people
[22:12:59] <alex_joni> :P
[22:14:35] <ChrisSmol> starting up lots of stuff, moving windows around, no overruns
[22:14:41] <ChrisSmol> haven't dared to hit ^c yet
[22:15:26] <cradek> try running a couple glxgears
[22:15:29] <alex_joni> http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/cdrom/www/emc2/eng.htm
[22:16:04] <ChrisSmol> running what?
[22:16:19] <cradek> glxgears, it's a simple GL program
[22:16:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prods SWPadnos
[22:17:22] <ChrisSmol> is it on the live cd?
[22:17:30] <cradek> I think so...?
[22:19:05] <ChrisSmol> well, works well enough for now, and i will be a while before i am ready to use it
[22:19:21] <cradek> cool
[22:21:18] <ChrisSmol> i do have a stepper motor laying around actually.... so i can try to build up a driver for it, and at least play with controlling one axis
[22:22:42] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, ouch - what for?
[22:22:45] <ChrisSmol> this looks reasonable http://cgi.ebay.com/PacSci-H32NRFA-NEMA-32-stepper-motor-314-oz-in-torque_W0QQitemZ260048149505QQihZ016QQcategoryZ78196QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:22:47] <cradek> we've seen a few people get frustrated building homemade stepper drivers - my friendly advice is to be sure to read up before you invest too much time
[22:23:29] <ChrisSmol> i've built some in the past
[22:23:36] <cradek> ah ok
[22:23:52] <ChrisSmol> but yeah, they can be tricky
[22:23:57] <cradek> that motor doesn't seem big enough to be 314 oz-in does it?
[22:24:05] <ChrisSmol> esp if you want to move at reasonable speeds
[22:24:08] <ChrisSmol> it did look small to me
[22:25:01] <skunkworks> either way - if you can get it for not much more than that - it would be a nice stepper
[22:25:27] <ChrisSmol> there's a set of three 200 oz-in motors for $99, new
[22:25:39] <cradek> is there a NEMA 32? I thought 23 and 34 were the popular ones
[22:25:54] <anonimasu> yes
[22:26:13] <anonimasu> err sorry misread that
[22:27:08] <SWPadnos> yeah - 34 and 42 are the standards
[22:27:49] <cradek> I don't trust those specs at all then
[22:32:14] <skunkworks> pretty close
[22:33:11] <alex_joni> sounds like doze license key to me
[22:39:16] <Jymmm> lol
[22:48:34] <alex_joni> http://www.slate.com/id/2152255/?nav=navoa
[22:51:35] <giacus> Gnight
[22:53:44] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmm
[23:13:56] <alex_joni> nigth people
[23:13:59] <alex_joni> night even
[23:40:51] <A-L-P-H-A_> A-L-P-H-A_ is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[23:42:45] <mtedad> `/leave