#emc | Logs for 2006-10-31

[01:53:43] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: document home-all
[02:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> Anyone know of an open GIS software? LGPL hopefully...
[02:44:13] <cradek> what's GIS?
[02:46:41] <rayh> grass is open
[02:47:04] <cradek> I guess I don't know of any then...
[02:47:45] <A-L-P-H-A> Geospatial Infomation systems.
[03:04:28] <cradek> how on earth can I lose a 2ft^3 piece of equipment in a small room?
[03:06:02] <skunkworks> :)
[03:06:13] <cradek> well I know how - it was "in the way" so I put it "somewhere"
[03:06:57] <A-L-P-H-A> garage.
[03:07:39] <skunkworks> I 'never' have that problem. Where did I put my 2kw generator?
[03:08:18] <skunkworks> Night guys. Rough day.
[03:08:25] <cradek> if I look in the same obvious places I've already looked, will it be there now?
[03:08:32] <cradek> skunkworks: goodnight
[03:08:53] <skunkworks> its always the last place you look :rimshot
[03:11:22] <cradek> and it's even blue for pete's sake
[03:11:40] <jmkasunich> so what is "it"?
[03:11:46] <jepler> does anyone recall how to shut CIA up for a moment?
[03:11:49] <jmkasunich> the maxnc?
[03:12:17] <cradek> you could just kick it
[03:12:32] <cradek> jmkasunich: no, but about the same size - my vibrograph
[03:12:54] <jmkasunich> whats the inverse of /voice?
[03:13:12] <cradek> you'd have to switch to moderated to use voice I think
[03:13:47] <jmkasunich> never mind...
[03:14:09] <jmkasunich> ban isn't the right answer I don't think
[03:14:18] <jmkasunich> Usage: BAN <mask> [<bantype>], bans everyone matching the mask from the current channel. If they are already on the channel this doesn't kick them (needs chanop
[03:14:31] <cradek> you just have to kick too
[03:14:32] <jmkasunich> you want to kick, but allow to return later
[03:14:41] <jmkasunich> ban might prevent it from returning
[03:14:44] <jepler> A %-ban is a "quiet"
[03:14:53] <jmkasunich> never mind....
[03:14:54] <cradek> ah cool
[03:14:56] <jepler> scroll down to "+q (quiet user)": http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
[03:15:23] <cradek> no fair reading the help
[03:16:25] <A-L-P-H-A> he's still here.
[03:16:38] <jmkasunich> we want him still here
[03:16:44] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[03:16:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought you were trying to get rid of him.
[03:17:03] <jmkasunich> we just didn't want him to be spouting messages - jepler just did a commit that touched about a bazillion files
[03:17:15] <jmkasunich> now that the commit is done, the ban is lifted
[03:17:16] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[03:17:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[03:17:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[03:17:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[03:17:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[03:17:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[03:17:29] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[03:17:34] <jepler> no worries A-L-P-H-A
[03:17:39] <jepler> sometimes I understand what I'm doing too
[03:32:02] <rayh> A-L-P-H-A, did you see Geographic Resource Analysis Support System
[03:32:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc: fix reporting of an error on the first line as an error on a line equal to the number of lines in the previously loaded program
[03:42:36] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/rtapi/sim_rtapi.c: keep rtapi_app from going crazy after it was stopped for a long time in the debugger
[03:43:03] <jmkasunich> heh--- thats why realtime code and debuggers don't get along!
[03:43:15] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/kinematics.h: remove unused stuff
[03:43:50] <jepler> the "fix" is to just forget about all the times the "realtime" code should have been invoked if the wall time changed too much between iterations
[03:46:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/.cvsignore: ignore generated file
[03:47:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07improved-dpkg * 10emc2/debian/control.in: note additional packages required to build
[17:57:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> iab
[18:02:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> random question: I have a relay that says it can take 10 amps at 250VAC, any guess as to the current it can safely break at 24VDC? (without the contacts getting all oxidised)
[18:26:49] <SWPadnos> 10A
[18:27:32] <SWPadnos> maybe a bit more, since AC loads are usually inductive, and those tend to push sparks better than DC loads
[18:34:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I was thinking that it would be able to break less current becuase AC hits 0V after 20ms, but DC current would let it be able to draw out long arcs
[18:34:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> though if it's inductive you have a point
[18:45:47] <SWPadnos> looking at relays (like motor starters), the DC ratings are always much higher than the AC motor ratings
[18:45:57] <SWPadnos> let me check that to be sure
[18:46:55] <alex_joni> especially for lower voltages
[18:47:15] <alex_joni> usually a 10A 24VDC can break about 6-7A 250VAC !? iirc
[18:49:15] <SWPadnos> yeah - I'm not seeing AC and DC ratings on my contactors
[18:49:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:49:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so if it does 10A 250VAC then 10A 24VDC should be no problem?
[18:50:01] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:50:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> perfect :D
[18:50:16] <SWPadnos> the AC/inductive rating is a worst case, basically
[18:50:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> my load is inductive, but I'm going to have a freewheeling diode, so it's not applicable
[18:52:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (It's that electric bike I go on about all the time)
[19:00:54] <skunkworks> Lerneaen_Hydra: why are you going to have a free wheeling diode? how are you going to coast
[19:01:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I plan to either have the motor regeneratively connected or with a diode
[19:02:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> If I want to run without the motor (a la typical bike) then I have some locking pins that I can remove in the middle stage of the transmission so the motor doesn't even spin
[19:03:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and some form of PWM control, controlled with a moped-style handle
[19:14:01] <logger_emc> * logger_emc is logging
[19:14:17] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[19:14:18] <logger_emc> I'm feeling lazy .. but here's the log anyways: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-10-31#T19-14-40
[19:15:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> change of name?
[19:16:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and what does "I'm feeling lazy" mean, that it's having connection issues?
[19:16:30] <SWPadnos> no - it's being cute :)
[19:16:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, so no real meaning?
[19:16:55] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it's on dreamhost now
[19:17:03] <SWPadnos> cool!
[19:17:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ooh, no more disconnection issues? (hopefully)
[19:17:14] <alex_joni> yeah..
[19:17:16] <SWPadnos> emcboard@dinero - didn't bother looking
[19:17:18] <skunkworks> really? no more lost connections
[19:17:24] <SWPadnos> that remains to be seen
[19:17:28] <skunkworks> :)
[19:17:29] <SWPadnos> but it may be better
[19:17:39] <alex_joni> hopefully :)
[19:17:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cvs appears to be working good at least
[19:17:54] <alex_joni> I see there's an issue with rdf file support
[19:17:58] <SWPadnos> I think linuxcnc.org has had better uptime than alex's site, so I'd expect it to be better ;)
[19:18:09] <SWPadnos> the type isn't set correctly?
[19:18:24] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: bet it doesn't have better uptime than my box :P
[19:18:39] <alex_joni> but it's connected to the internet better ;)
[19:18:41] <SWPadnos> probably not, but it seems to have better connectivity ;)
[19:18:47] <alex_joni> right
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> the link (URI) the logger spits is of some odd format
[19:19:03] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[19:19:04] <logger_emc> I'm feeling lazy .. but here's the log anyways: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-10-31#T19-19-26
[19:19:12] <alex_joni> 2006-10-31#T19-19-26 <- that part
[19:19:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm. where is the script?
[19:19:30] <alex_joni> the files it creates are actually 2006-10-31.txt and .rdf
[19:19:40] <alex_joni> ~/logger/logger
[19:19:53] <SWPadnos> ~emcboard ?
[19:19:56] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:19:58] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:20:11] <SWPadnos> I'll take a look at it (and see if my nano-knowledge of perl can help) :)
[19:20:30] <alex_joni> it's a lot more than my femto-knowledge of it ;)
[19:20:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:20:41] <SWPadnos> atto-knowledge, anyone?
[19:21:00] <skunkworks> I only know to pico
[19:21:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm - since they're moved anyway, might it make sense to reararnge them into year / month subdirs?
[19:21:29] <SWPadnos> rearrange, too
[19:22:37] <alex_joni> we can do that
[19:22:45] <alex_joni> and keep the current dir in /emc/ ?
[19:24:25] <alex_joni> there's still 2 months missing.. I'm still moving stuff ;)
[19:24:37] <SWPadnos> I think so - emc and emc-devel for the dirs, with year/month subdirs
[19:24:41] <SWPadnos> in each
[19:24:48] <alex_joni> year should suffice I think
[19:25:15] <SWPadnos> maybe, but it's >1000 files per year with html / txt / rdf version
[19:25:17] <SWPadnos> s
[19:25:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: still easy to open in a browser
[19:25:47] <alex_joni> especially if you don't know what you're after ;)
[19:26:05] <alex_joni> and html should go away
[19:26:06] <SWPadnos> true, except that rdf doesn't have the right mime type
[19:26:25] <SWPadnos> I get a download window in Mozilla/Windows instead of a display
[19:26:28] <alex_joni> I have nfc what it should be ;)
[19:26:37] <SWPadnos> err - instead of a displayed page
[19:26:40] <SWPadnos> geg
[19:26:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:26:55] <alex_joni> it's some sort of xml inside
[19:27:17] <jepler> actually I'd stake out a position in favor of xml, including automatically making things into hyperlinks in the archive
[19:27:26] <jepler> get to work!
[19:27:30] <jepler> * jepler snaps his fingers
[19:27:50] <SWPadnos> yeh - usually it shows up as text with some colors added, with a header saying that there's no description file or some such, so it can't be validated
[19:27:56] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos jupms to work
[19:27:59] <SWPadnos> or coffee
[19:28:27] <alex_joni> jepler: there are some scripts distributed with these rdf's
[19:28:32] <alex_joni> care to look at them?
[19:28:38] <jepler> not really, no
[19:35:31] <alex_joni> rm all -html's ;)
[19:35:44] <alex_joni> done ;)
[19:36:04] <SWPadnos> I'd lov eto have html files though, if the format could be prettier
[19:36:42] <alex_joni> you have the rdf's
[19:36:43] <SWPadnos> those would also be better for the bookmarks, since everyone can display html, and they can have anchors
[19:37:14] <SWPadnos> display of the RDF isn't great, in the default browser provided with Ubuntu ...
[19:38:03] <alex_joni> no, I meant exporting the data from rdf to html shouldn't betoo hard ;)
[19:38:10] <alex_joni> _if_ you care about that
[19:38:12] <SWPadnos_> oh, well there is that ;)
[19:38:34] <alex_joni> http://rhizomik.net/redefer/rdf2html.html
[19:38:46] <SWPadnos_> the source view looks nice in FireFox ;)
[19:39:00] <cradek> the rdf are 5-7x as large as the txt?
[19:40:08] <alex_joni> cradek: yes
[19:40:10] <SWPadnos_> yeah - here's one line, in RDF format:
[19:40:12] <SWPadnos_> <rdf:li>
[19:40:13] <SWPadnos_> <foaf:chatEvent rdf:ID="T00-03-54">
[19:40:14] <SWPadnos_> <dc:date>2006-01-05T00:03:54Z</dc:date>
[19:40:16] <SWPadnos_> <dc:description>Ok, trying now...</dc:description>
[19:40:18] <SWPadnos_> <dc:creator><wn:Person foaf:nick="jtr"/></dc:creator>
[19:40:19] <SWPadnos_> </foaf:chatEvent>
[19:40:20] <SWPadnos_> </rdf:li>
[19:40:24] <cradek> oh my god
[19:40:45] <SWPadnos_> heh
[19:43:04] <cradek> these logs were the biggest thing I was backing up, but now it's (barely!) the deb repositories
[19:43:25] <cradek> hi ray
[19:44:11] <cradek> 241500rpm
[19:44:11] <cradek> 241500266392irc
[19:44:11] <cradek> 343148emc2
[19:44:22] <cradek> hmm
[19:44:22] <rayh> Hi cradek
[19:44:46] <jepler> rpm?
[19:44:58] <cradek> 266392 irc
[19:44:58] <cradek> 343148 emc2
[19:44:58] <cradek> 671300 iso
[19:45:15] <cradek> 241500 rpm
[19:45:26] <cradek> I can't paste three lines right to save my life
[19:45:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> seems to me that some form of transparent compression would work nicely
[19:45:47] <cradek> looks like rpm is a FC3 rtai kernel
[19:46:52] <Jymmm[OFF]> Jymmm[OFF] is now known as Jymmm
[19:51:34] <SWPadnos_> cradek: can you set the backup for incremental only in the log dir? it's not like the logs from 2004 will change much :)
[19:52:03] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: unless we go back in time to fix them ;)
[19:52:11] <SWPadnos_> oh, let's do that
[19:53:40] <Jymmm> * Jymmm [insert some smartass humorous comment here]
[20:36:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: are you ok with the cloak proposed?
[20:36:50] <alex_joni> Jymmm: want an emc specific cloak? we're making a list ;)
[20:40:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni: whats the cloak name?
[20:40:40] <alex_joni> emc/supporter/jymmm ?
[20:40:58] <alex_joni> emc/user/jymmm ? .. guess it's open
[20:41:04] <cradek> does supporter imply a donation of money to anyone but me?
[20:41:21] <alex_joni> hmm.. maybe supporter is not the best name
[20:41:36] <Jymmm> What?! It's not EnhancedMachineController/supporter/jymmm LOL
[20:41:37] <alex_joni> it's a moral support ;)
[20:42:43] <Jymmm> If I change it, might muck up a few things I have access to right now. Better not, but thanks
[20:42:58] <alex_joni> ok.. then let's leave it like that
[20:43:20] <skunkworks> I liked evangelist better
[20:43:23] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:43:55] <cradek> even though I wasn't serious when I suggested it, I think it's fitting and a little bit funny
[20:44:57] <cradek> a more secular term would be proponent, but that doesn't really have the same meaning
[20:47:59] <skunkworks> this is what I had wrote about emc2 in a cnczone thread 'You may have seen me praise the virtues of emc2 in other threads.' :)
[20:48:44] <cradek> maybe we should stick to board member and developer cloaks for now? those are very straightforward
[20:49:10] <cradek> skunkworks: I sure appreciate your emc work on cnczone
[20:49:55] <alex_joni> skunkworks: it sure saves us the hassle of doing it ourselves
[20:50:24] <skunkworks> Just remember If I don't know - I ask here. So in effect - your answering the questions anyways ;)
[20:50:56] <alex_joni> as chris put it: 21:57 < cradek> rayh: I think one way you are qualified to help is to help
[20:50:57] <jepler> is there any way to see what other groups are using for their cloaks?
[20:51:00] <alex_joni> someone find the right person to ask a particular question.
[20:51:08] <alex_joni> jepler: random /whois'es
[21:00:45] <alex_joni> jepler: or use /who #channel
[21:02:50] <alex_joni> most use group/developer/name and group/member/name
[21:04:14] <anonimasu> :)
[21:11:18] <rayh> I'm not certain that IRC really functions as topic based help line.
[21:13:04] <SWPadnos> thank you for calling the IRC help line. for help with configuration, press <1>
[21:13:19] <SWPadnos> for general Linux help, press <2>
[21:13:42] <alex_joni> 3
[21:14:05] <skunkworks> when is linuxcnc going to have a message board?
[21:14:14] <alex_joni> message board?
[21:14:18] <SWPadnos> similar to cnczone?
[21:14:21] <skunkworks> right
[21:14:22] <SWPadnos> you mean forums
[21:14:28] <skunkworks> sorry
[21:14:36] <SWPadnos> I can install them today, but I don't think I will :)
[21:14:45] <skunkworks> :)
[21:15:06] <SWPadnos> PHPbb is there for forums, I think
[21:15:19] <alex_joni> yeah, but it seems odd to have one ;)
[21:16:17] <skunkworks> I guess that is what the user mail list does.
[21:16:30] <skunkworks> but it would be a bit more convenient I would think.
[21:16:37] <SWPadnos> I think there's mailing list software there as well, but it's more for distribution lists (for ad spamming)
[21:17:33] <cradek> hopefully never
[21:17:59] <SWPadnos> hmmm - there is a discussion list option, separate from distribution lists
[21:18:35] <SWPadnos> err - announcement lists
[21:18:50] <SWPadnos> actually, both announcement lists and discussion lists are useful to us
[21:19:18] <SWPadnos> since it's sign-up only, there can be an announcement list for e.g. new releases, bug fizes, etc.
[21:19:22] <SWPadnos> fixes
[21:19:38] <skunkworks> bug fizes - sounds interesting
[21:19:52] <skunkworks> sounds like the original bug
[21:20:00] <SWPadnos> waiter: "and who had the bug fizz?"
[21:21:16] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: we have an announcement list on joomla
[21:21:20] <alex_joni> for the users who registered
[21:21:25] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:21:35] <alex_joni> but I tried not to spam them with new releases info :D
[21:21:46] <SWPadnos> sure - that makes sense
[21:22:10] <SWPadnos> I can set up a discussion list on DH to see what it does for archiving and the like
[21:22:41] <SWPadnos> I can always get rid of it if it doesn't seem to fit our needs
[21:23:19] <cradek> does that mean mailing list?
[21:23:23] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:23:34] <SWPadnos> I think so anyway
[21:23:50] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: is it mailman? or some other solution?
[21:24:10] <SWPadnos> lemme set something up and find out ;)
[21:24:13] <SWPadnos> give me a minute
[21:25:50] <SWPadnos> well - the good news is that the list management page has an easy to use "destroy" link :)
[21:26:34] <SWPadnos> sometime soon, lists.linuxcnc.org will be in DNS, the mailing list is emc2mail@lists.linuxcnc.org
[21:29:11] <alex_joni> any web interface?
[21:29:23] <SWPadnos> yes, and it is mailman
[21:30:59] <SWPadnos> I got the email saying that the list was created, but I can't look up lists.linuxcnc.org yet
[21:30:59] <alex_joni> good to know
[21:31:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:38:49] <rayh> isn't there a command we can use to watch the name propagate?
[21:38:59] <alex_joni> dig +trace
[21:39:21] <alex_joni> dig lists.linuxcnc.org +trace
[21:41:55] <rayh> tnx
[21:44:57] <SWPadnos> the email says that the DNS propagation could take a day or two
[21:45:06] <SWPadnos> it's been much faster than that before, but who knows
[21:47:09] <skunkworks> any thing that I have changed regarding dns has alway taken atleast a day.
[21:47:23] <jepler> this is already showing the new record: dig lists.linuxcnc.org @ns1.dreamhost.com
[21:47:49] <jepler> but probably all of us have old information cached at our local nameserver
[21:48:50] <SWPadnos> strangely, I get a timeout with that command, logged into dinero.dreamhost.com ;)
[21:49:08] <cradek> if I knew which number it was in the SOA, I could say how long the cache lasts
[21:50:26] <alex_joni> linuxcnc.org. 10800 IN SOA ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2006091502 20590 1800 1814400 14400
[21:50:37] <SWPadnos> ok - 3 hours
[21:56:28] <SWPadnos> well, sometime later I'll let you folks know how it looks
[21:56:46] <SWPadnos> I think it's a mailing list that presents archives in a format similar to a forum
[21:57:07] <SWPadnos> (I'm thinking that http://discussion.dreamhost.com/ uses the same software)
[21:57:23] <SWPadnos> but that could be the forum software - I'm not sure
[21:57:32] <alex_joni> that's phpBB
[21:57:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:57:46] <SWPadnos> it's pretty ugly for phpBB ;)
[21:57:50] <alex_joni> or similar
[21:57:55] <alex_joni> still .. a forum
[21:57:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:58:09] <SWPadnos> I was fooled by the discussion.... name :)
[21:58:43] <SWPadnos> cool - this is available now as well: http://www.activecollab.com/
[21:59:14] <SWPadnos> (not suggesting that we use it, it's just kind of cool)
[21:59:37] <alex_joni> I'm not impressed by the screenshot
[21:59:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:00:07] <alex_joni> too tired to dig into greater detail :)
[22:00:10] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:00:30] <SWPadnos> that could function as a feature / bug tracker
[22:00:36] <SWPadnos> but it may be ugly to do so
[22:10:17] <skunkworks> cradek: can you check to see if my sourceforge user list is on hold?
[22:10:35] <cradek> yes
[22:10:46] <skunkworks> Thanks
[22:11:26] <skunkworks> I was subscribed a long time ago - but I think our mail server bounced it once.
[22:11:51] <skunkworks> (it says I am still subscribed
[22:11:52] <skunkworks> )
[22:12:08] <cradek> what email?
[22:15:46] <alex_joni> samco at empirescreen dot com ?
[22:16:01] <skunkworks> yes - :) taken care of.
[22:16:42] <alex_joni> it's set to receive plain text emails
[22:22:49] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[22:22:50] <logger_aj> I'm feeling lazy .. but here's the log anyways:
[22:23:10] <alex_joni> skunkworks: the last part is not 100% correct..
[22:23:23] <alex_joni> but if you change #T22-22-27 with .txt it works
[22:23:39] <skunkworks> it worked as is this time
[22:24:01] <skunkworks> nice
[22:24:06] <alex_joni> cool... probably SWPadnos_ did some magic
[22:24:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[22:24:17] <alex_joni> good night gents
[22:24:20] <skunkworks> Night alex
[22:28:11] <skunkworks> bbl
[23:15:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: remove references to newinst