#emc | Logs for 2006-10-22

[00:20:06] <cradek> darn I missed alex
[00:20:17] <cradek> I guess we'll do the release tomorrow
[00:20:24] <jmkasunich> what did you need from him?
[00:20:31] <jmkasunich> the dapper packaging?
[00:20:44] <cradek> no I think I can do both of them
[00:20:51] <cradek> I just wanted to talk to him first I guess
[00:21:02] <cradek> nobody has said anything about my mail to -board
[00:21:24] <jmkasunich> the heads up one?
[00:21:29] <cradek> yeah
[00:21:45] <jmkasunich> I think silence means agreement
[00:22:00] <cradek> I guess I just wonder if you guys think that's all the bugs
[00:22:37] <cradek> I do have the dapper package done (matching RELEASE_2_0_4 tag)
[00:22:55] <jmkasunich> I saw the tagging go by
[00:23:10] <jmkasunich> I'm fine with releasing what we have right now
[00:23:19] <cradek> ok
[00:23:30] <cradek> I did test the sources.list updating
[00:24:21] <jmkasunich> I must admit that instead of doing something usefull like testing, I'm drooling over new systems
[00:24:32] <cradek> looking for a new machine?
[00:24:36] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:25:04] <jmkasunich> dunno if I'm gonna make the jump soon or not, but I want to replace the farm with VMs, and that is my excuse for a fast new box
[00:25:18] <cradek> cool
[00:25:23] <jmkasunich> fast on a budget anyway
[00:25:24] <cradek> maybe smp would be nice for that
[00:25:26] <jmkasunich> I don
[00:25:35] <cradek> you sure need lots of ram
[00:25:54] <jmkasunich> yeah, and ISTR problems with RTAI and more than 1G ram
[00:26:04] <cradek> when I was using vmware a lot, I was happier when I went from 512 to 768M
[00:26:07] <jmkasunich> also have no clue how the new systems will do for RT
[00:26:16] <cradek> yeah as far as I know, those problems are NOT solved
[00:26:36] <cradek> paolo says he doesn't have that much so he can't work on it, and I notice nobody has offered him any
[00:26:51] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure how critical running a RT kernel is going to be for the new system
[00:26:56] <cradek> if I was in his place I'd expect to get some ram in the mail if someone wanted it fixed
[00:27:21] <jmkasunich> well if he wants ram in the mail he needs to be specific
[00:27:36] <jmkasunich> if his mobo doesn't have many slots, he'd probably have to replace, not just add
[00:27:46] <cradek> true
[00:28:04] <cradek> I don't know if he even expects/wants that, that was my idea.
[00:28:39] <cradek> my nvidia and realtime kernel are out of sync now, so I can't test the release very well (no opengl).
[00:28:54] <cradek> * cradek spits on nvidia
[00:29:11] <jmkasunich> if you were buying new, what graphics would you get? ATI?
[00:29:20] <cradek> I really wish I knew
[00:29:33] <cradek> I think some of the ATI work well with the Free drivers
[00:29:50] <cradek> no idea if they're realtime-safe
[00:30:19] <jmkasunich> I'd ask SWP for advice, but his systems are all gold plated
[00:30:23] <SWPadnos> hah!
[00:30:25] <cradek> right
[00:30:27] <jmkasunich> I'm looking for max bang for the buck
[00:30:43] <SWPadnos> opteron 165 CCBBE lot code: $160
[00:31:01] <SWPadnos> motherboard (socket 939): $120-$190 or so
[00:31:07] <cradek> To me video cards are worth about $40 and you can get a decent dual-screen nvidia for that
[00:31:15] <jmkasunich> looks like Intel Core 2 E6300 or E6400 wins in the price performance competition now
[00:31:35] <SWPadnos> could be at this point, though I'm not sure it'll be any better with virtualization
[00:31:40] <SWPadnos> AMD has done a lot on that front
[00:31:55] <SWPadnos> if you were planning to do video encoding, I'd go fro the Intel
[00:31:58] <SWPadnos> for
[00:32:16] <jmkasunich> I'm planning to do normal desktop stuff, plus run about 5 VMs
[00:32:27] <SWPadnos> I'd definitely go with AMD then
[00:32:40] <jmkasunich> the VMs and the main system will all run 24/7, but the VMs won't be doing much most of the time
[00:32:50] <SWPadnos> you're better off with dual processors than dual core, baut that adds a lot to the MB price
[00:33:00] <jmkasunich> I don't want to go there
[00:33:07] <SWPadnos> at least that's the case with AMD - Intel it doesn't matte
[00:33:09] <SWPadnos> r
[00:33:10] <robin_sz> meep?
[00:33:18] <SWPadnos> the 165 is dual core
[00:33:21] <SWPadnos> hi Robin
[00:33:27] <jmkasunich> the E6300 is about $200, and I'd want to spend no more than that on a mobo
[00:33:28] <cradek> to make it worse, my system is agp
[00:33:50] <cradek> what's the drawback of dual core?
[00:33:56] <cradek> I thought it was the same
[00:33:58] <SWPadnos> so up to $400 for CPU+mobo combination? what's the RAM for the Intel (DDR2?)
[00:34:06] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:34:08] <SWPadnos> it only has one memory bus for both cores
[00:34:14] <robin_sz> do dual caore systems show up as two seperate CPUs in 'top'?
[00:34:17] <jmkasunich> dual channel DDR2
[00:34:22] <SWPadnos> dual CPUs with Intel also share the same memory bus
[00:34:23] <cradek> robin_sz: yes
[00:34:33] <cradek> robin_sz: even HT chips do
[00:34:38] <SWPadnos> dual-chip AMD designs have two buses, so roughly double the memory bandwidth
[00:34:44] <cradek> ok interesting
[00:34:53] <jmkasunich> dual chip as in two sockets?
[00:34:56] <robin_sz> so, how is that different from a emt64 Xeon then?
[00:35:04] <jmkasunich> bet that takes it well out of the $400 range then
[00:35:13] <SWPadnos> they comminucate with each other (and share memory) via HyperTransport, so the added bandwidth is actually available
[00:35:22] <SWPadnos> not by much, I think
[00:35:29] <robin_sz> right
[00:35:33] <SWPadnos> also you end up with 4x 1G ram instead of 2x2G
[00:35:45] <jmkasunich> my last system was $300 total, case, mobo, CPU, 512M ram, and video
[00:35:51] <SWPadnos> (not that you have to use 2G DIMMs, or that you have to have 4G total ;)
[00:35:52] <jmkasunich> this one will obviously be more
[00:35:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:35:57] <SWPadnos> I think so
[00:36:00] <robin_sz> last box I bought was a dual EMT64 Xeon ... you get 4 lines of CPU in 'top'
[00:36:04] <jmkasunich> but I don't want to go nuts with it
[00:36:20] <SWPadnos> wait until Christmas, and give yourself $1500 or so (total), $1000 if you don't want a monitor
[00:36:23] <jmkasunich> 1G memory, 2x512M, is $129
[00:36:32] <jmkasunich> don't need a monitor
[00:36:35] <jmkasunich> but I
[00:36:41] <SWPadnos> ok - you'll keep the LCD you have
[00:36:42] <cradek> yes I have a two cpu + HT system at work, shows up as 4 cpus
[00:36:48] <jmkasunich> but I'm thinking more like $600 or so
[00:36:56] <robin_sz> well, easy
[00:37:01] <SWPadnos> ok, no problem. is a 250G hard drive enough for you?
[00:37:03] <robin_sz> ]wait till AFTER christmas ;)
[00:37:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:37:14] <jmkasunich> 150 mobo, 200 CPU 120 RAM, 80 video, 80 disk
[00:37:24] <SWPadnos> no CD/DVD drive?
[00:37:35] <jmkasunich> I probably have one laying around
[00:37:39] <SWPadnos> and everything aelse scavenged (KB, mouse ...)
[00:37:43] <jmkasunich> right
[00:37:56] <jmkasunich> I have a kvm, so that stuff is shared
[00:38:06] <jmkasunich> saw a case for $4.99 ;-)
[00:38:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:38:13] <robin_sz> I needed a slow but reliable sort of exra box for work, spotted a 900mhz dell poweredge for £30 on ebay .. bif and got it ...
[00:38:13] <jmkasunich> (44.99 - 40 rebate)
[00:38:17] <robin_sz> bid even
[00:38:19] <SWPadnos> add a budget for a good power supply
[00:38:25] <jmkasunich> oh, right
[00:38:40] <robin_sz> when it turned up, it was actually a lot of two identical machines :)
[00:38:44] <jmkasunich> I guess the disk should be sata
[00:38:45] <anonimasu> hey robin
[00:38:46] <robin_sz> £15 each
[00:38:47] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:38:54] <jmkasunich> save the 1 IDE connector for the cdrom drive
[00:39:10] <SWPadnos> you can get a fast (though not dual core) CPU + 250G hard drive for $200 from NewEgg
[00:39:17] <SWPadnos> there should still be 2 IDE connectors
[00:39:37] <jmkasunich> I was looking at info on intel 975 chipset mobos, and most have only 1
[00:39:41] <jmkasunich> dunno about amd
[00:39:52] <SWPadnos> all the AMDs I've seen have 2
[00:40:00] <SWPadnos> though I've only seen a few different models so ...
[00:40:07] <jmkasunich> the benchmarks threw me toward intel, because they show the core2 cpus blowing away amd
[00:40:15] <jmkasunich> but thats not running VMs
[00:40:22] <SWPadnos> benchmarks at what though?
[00:40:23] <SWPadnos> exactly
[00:40:30] <jmkasunich> my existing system is AMD, and I have no problems with that
[00:40:40] <SWPadnos> they added good cirtualization support to the rev E chips
[00:40:47] <SWPadnos> virtualization
[00:41:18] <jmkasunich> tom
[00:41:28] <jmkasunich> tom's hardware has a bunch of CPU benchmarks
[00:41:32] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:41:46] <SWPadnos> I wonder if they've switched back to being Intel fanboys?
[00:41:56] <jmkasunich> wonder which one most resembles VM loading
[00:42:51] <SWPadnos> think about power as well - this will be on all the time, right?
[00:43:20] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:43:54] <jmkasunich> but it will replace the existing farm with its 5 spinning hard disks...
[00:44:18] <SWPadnos> heh - point taken ;)
[00:44:53] <jmkasunich> like most PCs, it will be running the idle task most of the time
[00:44:57] <jmkasunich> (on all the VMs as well)
[00:45:35] <SWPadnos> is there an E6300, or was that supposed to be E6400?
[00:45:52] <jmkasunich> one thing I'm wondering about is how the VMs will play together... when a VM is doing "nothing", how much physical ram will it use... hopefully it will free most of it
[00:45:59] <SWPadnos> it in the TH benchmarks
[00:46:08] <SWPadnos> +I don't see ...
[00:46:31] <SWPadnos> no, the VM uses all the RAM you have configured as soon as it starts
[00:46:37] <jmkasunich> eww
[00:46:42] <SWPadnos> it can be swap, but I think that's how it goes