#emc | Logs for 2006-10-12

[00:33:09] <jepler> anonimasu: that was supposed to be humor, not an insult. I'm sorry it didn't come across that way.
[00:33:31] <jepler> (you get a message similar to that when you insert a non-Free module into the kernel)
[01:07:23] <K`zan> First exercise with Synergy went pretty well, obviously got lots to learn :).
[01:16:16] <K`zan> Anyone here using ubuntu? If so where is portmapper hidden, NFS mounts take forever without it...
[01:22:38] <K`zan> Never mind :-), apparently ubuntu doesn't have it {weird} but apt-get finds it.
[01:30:36] <K`zan> Just tried the gcode out in EMC, emc was not happy with it. Probably got some setup work to do on both ends. Z axis out of range (run anyway) and can't change units on cutter radius comp (dies).
[01:31:09] <K`zan> Will see what I can figure out after some FOOD :-).
[01:37:04] <gtoner> Hi! New user here. I want to design new hardware for attachment to the PC for EMC and would like to get info on writing the driver to attach it to EMC.
[01:41:28] <gtoner> Anybody there?
[01:44:12] <jepler> gtoner: I am here for a moment.
[01:44:30] <jepler> gtoner: have you looked at some of the existing hardware drivers yet?
[01:44:39] <gtoner> Newbee here, thought I didn't have a connection
[01:45:14] <gtoner> Is there source code available or a template for the required services?
[01:45:52] <jepler> the complete source code to emc2 is available. You can view it online: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr
[01:46:45] <gtoner> I checked the online docs at linuxcnc.org, but no help to write a new driner for new HW
[01:47:30] <jepler> Have you worked with emc2 yet? Are you at all familiar with HAL?
[01:49:04] <gtoner> Slightly, I believe the HAL provides an abstraction layer to the hardware so it must work with a driver with a standard interface, the driver providing the services to the HW
[01:49:27] <jepler> yes, that's a good explanation of it
[01:50:17] <gtoner> I have seen the other HW drivers available such as parallel port, but can't find a spec or template for writing on for my custom HW
[01:51:12] <jepler> A HAL module consists of an rtapi_app_main() which creates a HAL component with hal_init() and then creates some pins, parameters, and functions with other HAL calls
[01:51:36] <jepler> the "functions" do things like read or write values from the pins to the hardware using inb() and outb() functions (which are standard linux kernel functions)
[01:52:12] <gtoner> sounds like just what i'm looking for.
[01:52:28] <jepler> you can copy the general form of the existing drivers by starting with hal_skeleton.c or hal_parport.c
[01:53:00] <gtoner> these sources are with the emc source?
[01:53:03] <jepler> yes
[01:53:18] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr/source/src/hal/drivers/hal_parport.c http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr/source/src/hal/drivers/hal_skeleton.c
[01:53:31] <gtoner> thanks much, i will give it a look!
[01:55:42] <jepler> if you want to use the experimental "comp", which is a preprocessor to help you write the repetitive stuff, you should read its documentation. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp/
[01:55:55] <jepler> a driver for a fictional card with 8 bits of digital IO is in there: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp/#SECTION00193000000000000000
[01:56:48] <jepler> hal_parport and hal_skeleton don't use comp, they predate it.
[01:57:18] <gtoner> obviously i have asked the correct person.
[01:57:30] <jepler> I hope I've been helpful
[01:58:31] <gtoner> seems i have plenty of info now, thanks
[02:00:15] <jepler> can you tell me anything more about the hardware you are developing? I'm curious about it.
[02:01:55] <gtoner> I have long experience with encoders, a/d, d/a, etc as used in embedded systems. Used to be a Microchip certified developer with a lot of motion control activity.
[02:02:41] <gtoner> Am developing something similar to the ecp printer port HW i saw listed in the existing drivers
[02:03:02] <jepler> the ppmc?
[02:03:44] <gtoner> dont have the info in front of me but i think thats correct
[02:04:24] <gtoner> uses the ports ability to output address and data with automatic strobes
[02:04:49] <jepler> yeah, that's the one
[02:05:15] <jepler> good luck with your project. have you found information about our mailing lists? The emc-developers list is another good place to ask questions, particularly if they're tough and technical
[02:05:40] <gtoner> really appreciate all this help.
[02:05:44] <jepler> you're welcome.
[02:07:33] <gtoner> thanks again, gotta go, good night!
[03:12:12] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: do you use multiple monitors?
[03:22:07] <cradek> yes
[03:23:59] <K`zan> My brain hurts :-), got the first demo example done, but I need to configure something, EMC or Synergy or both.
[03:24:22] <cradek> I think dave-e uses synergy and emc together
[03:25:06] <K`zan> If he shows up, I'll be sure to pester him :-). Gcode I got out of synergy blew up in emc :-(.
[03:25:24] <K`zan> Did draw a pretty pix of it in axis though.
[03:25:40] <cradek> I think in the example he showed me, he had to edit out some of the junk at the beginning of the file
[03:26:12] <K`zan> The first two lines, yes. And something about not dealing with cutter radius.
[03:26:30] <K`zan> later one besides it being outside the Z axis limits.
[03:26:34] <cradek> I don't know what other configuration he did...
[03:26:38] <K`zan> one/on
[03:26:53] <cradek> oh if it's a limits problem that's something you can fix easily enough
[03:27:02] <K`zan> can't change units on cutter radius comp (dies)
[03:27:17] <cradek> it outputs gcode that uses cutter comp? I'm surprised
[03:27:30] <K`zan> Not sure at this point if it is in Synergy or emc or both. Probably a lot of configing I need to do :-).
[03:27:31] <cradek> I'm also surprised that it *ever* changes units
[03:27:43] <K`zan> At this point, no idea at all.
[03:27:50] <cradek> why would cam output change the units?
[03:27:53] <K`zan> Beat though.
[03:27:56] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: yes
[03:28:04] <K`zan> cradek: No earthly idea.
[03:28:42] <cradek> dave is definitely your guy - rayh might know about it too
[03:28:43] <K`zan> Will dig into it tomorrow when I am less fried :-).
[03:28:58] <cradek> ok goodnight
[03:29:00] <K`zan> Will hopefully catch him.
[03:29:02] <cradek> it's getting late here too
[03:29:13] <K`zan> Nighto! Y'all have a good evening.
[03:29:19] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: how do you tinker with the startbar?
[03:29:32] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: it's locked to on of my monitors...
[03:29:37] <cradek> in gnome you can drag it where you want
[03:29:45] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: in gnome, but not icewm
[03:29:46] <cradek> in ice, it goes on the primary screen
[03:29:53] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: oh. :(
[04:35:35] <A-L-P-H-A> night folks
[05:39:53] <tray> hello
[05:41:02] <tray> I've been trying to download the EMC liveCd from http://linuxcnc.org/iso/emc2-ubuntu6.06-desktop-i386.iso but it's slow. Is there a faster link or should I be looking at my connection? Comments? Suggestions?
[06:07:22] <Jymmm> it's slow, just make sure you verify the MD5 before you burn coasters.
[08:01:03] <anonimasu> jepler: sorry :D
[08:01:21] <anonimasu> jepler: I were just a bit tired about half into bed :)
[09:08:34] <alex_joni> heh
[09:43:20] <alex_joni> I've long believed that a large amount of our current technology was invented by SF writers, and remained fiction until some geek read it and thought "I know how to build that".
[09:43:28] <alex_joni> -- Andrew Dalgleish
[09:52:25] <Bo^Dick> is there a way i could reduce the overshoot? http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/overshoot.jpg
[10:21:14] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: yes..
[10:21:45] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: better inertia matching..
[10:22:08] <anonimasu> less speed..
[10:22:16] <anonimasu> more dampening..
[10:25:30] <anonimasu> but well, if it's not a machine your drive probably had some wiring error..
[10:28:18] <alex_joni> sounds like there's some capacitance on the output
[10:28:28] <alex_joni> current doesn't rise quickly enough
[10:28:47] <anonimasu> it's a current drive in voltage mode(opamp)
[10:28:57] <anonimasu> apparently..
[10:28:57] <alex_joni> oh, then voltage ;)
[10:29:06] <alex_joni> that explains the wobbly thing on the output
[10:29:18] <alex_joni> while the voltage on the op-amp input stabilizes
[10:35:40] <anonimasu> probably
[10:37:17] <danex> Good Afternoon alex_joni
[10:37:43] <alex_joni> hello
[10:39:30] <danex> I have been out with a "Flu like virus" as the doctor called it
[10:40:49] <alex_joni> eek
[10:40:53] <alex_joni> know the feeling :(
[10:40:54] <danex> Have not had a chance to document what I was asking about last time
[10:42:53] <danex> Anything new in the EMC2 next release?
[10:43:06] <danex> Timeline etc?
[10:44:39] <alex_joni> not really
[10:44:45] <alex_joni> there should be a 2.0.4 shortly
[10:44:51] <alex_joni> with 1-2 minor bugfixes
[10:45:30] <alex_joni> as with 2.1 there's need to branch the code
[10:45:36] <alex_joni> then test it for while intensively
[10:45:44] <danex> Will the 2.0.4 have Halui in it?
[10:45:50] <alex_joni> so I think at least a month after branching (which hasn't happened yet)
[10:45:54] <alex_joni> 2.0.0 had halui in it
[10:45:58] <alex_joni> only very few pins
[10:46:25] <alex_joni> but the change to halui is probably too big to incorporate in 2.0.4, so the full halui as it is today will be only in 2.1.0
[10:49:05] <danex> How is testing done over all the various configs, this sounds like a large undertaking?
[10:51:43] <danex> Any way , time to go to work
[10:52:05] <danex> Have a good afternoon
[11:52:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for the weekend
[12:49:57] <skunkworks> Well it looks like the only mistake I made with the circuit is I didn't notice that the 2 led's in the opto-isolator package is mirrored. So one of the leds has the resistor attached to the anode and one to the cathode. :) easy fix on the schematic and not really a problem for testing.
[12:55:58] <Guest577> hello everybody
[12:56:38] <Guest577> somebody to help me ?
[12:56:38] <skunkworks> Hi
[12:56:54] <Guest577> i would add M codes
[12:57:47] <skunkworks> you would like to make custom M codes?
[12:58:14] <Guest577> yes like M20 and M21
[13:07:01] <skunkworks> I have no experience with custom m-codes. If you check in here off and on - some one will answer your question. This is where the experts are usually :)
[13:07:25] <SWPadnos> the only custom M-codes available are from 100-199 (maybe higher)
[13:07:43] <SWPadnos> other M codes (below 100) are "built-in", and require changes to the source code to modify
[13:07:57] <SWPadnos> what do you want to do with your M20 and M21 codes?
[13:10:25] <Guest577> just switch on or off an output
[13:10:26] <SWPadnos> ah. I think those are in the M60-69 range for emc. let me check
[13:10:49] <Guest577> but it's necesary M20 and M21 for me
[13:11:03] <Guest577> because the postprocessor gives this
[13:11:55] <SWPadnos> do you post process yourself, or are you handed files with these codes?
[13:12:08] <SWPadnos> (most post processors are aty least somewhat configurable)
[13:12:30] <Guest577> i use files gived by special post processor
[13:13:05] <Guest577> i have change in code the file interp_array.cc _ems[
[13:13:15] <Guest577> but it's not sufficient
[13:13:31] <Guest577> i have an segmentation fault
[13:13:46] <SWPadnos> there were some discussions about motion synchronized I/O in the last couple of months, but I'm not sure where they ended up
[13:13:47] <skunkworks> A 'find and replace' in a text editor would be my solution ;)
[13:14:05] <SWPadnos> that's what you need, regardless of the text that causes it to happen
[13:15:45] <Guest577> the how to do custom m codes
[13:16:00] <Guest577> i need a directory /programes ?
[13:17:19] <SWPadnos> if you put executable files names M100 - M199 into a directory (scripts/ in the emc dir, I think), they'll be run when the corresponding codes are found in your G0code program
[13:18:06] <SWPadnos> you can turn I/O on and off with halcmd, if you set up signals to each of the outputs you wnat to modify
[13:18:20] <cradek> they go in the default gcode directory (specified with PROGRAM_PREFIX
[13:18:20] <cradek> )
[13:18:24] <SWPadnos> using something like halcmd sets MyOutput1 off
[13:18:26] <SWPadnos> ah - thanks
[13:19:27] <SWPadnos> right - see m101 and m102.c in the nc_files dir
[13:19:29] <skunkworks> isn't there a sample one in there?
[13:19:35] <SWPadnos> err - M101 and M102.c
[13:19:39] <SWPadnos> (capital M)
[13:19:48] <skunkworks> :)
[13:20:44] <Guest577> ok i try
[13:20:51] <Guest577> thank you
[13:20:55] <Guest577> (:
[13:21:02] <Guest577> :)
[13:21:09] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:04:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[14:17:12] <skunkworks> http://www.hektor.ch/About+Hektor/
[14:17:18] <skunkworks> job for kins? :)
[14:18:01] <cradek> that's a "bipod" and alex wrote the kins introduction based on it
[14:19:13] <skunkworks> cool
[14:19:54] <cradek> somewhere I saw a video of that device painting and it's funny the extra motions they have to use to keep it from swinging (I guess)
[14:20:32] <skunkworks> yes - it is on the site. Always seems to go left to right or something like that.
[14:26:46] <cradek> I remember it making a lot of swirlies to avoid having to start/stop
[14:27:47] <skunkworks> yes - Now that I watch one agian - it just looks goofy :)
[14:27:57] <skunkworks> lots of swirlies
[14:28:39] <skunkworks> That makes sense. starts and stops would really make it swing.
[14:55:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if you set it up right then swinging won't be a problem, if the nozzle is in the center of rotation
[14:56:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I know you all missed me. :)
[14:56:14] <A-L-P-H-A> Where's my hug?
[15:12:14] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/tmx-elmo-sex-tape-has-arrived-206937.php
[15:12:24] <A-L-P-H-A> nsfw
[15:12:35] <A-L-P-H-A> well... is and isn't.
[15:19:28] <Stumpy> /nick dastumster
[15:19:35] <Stumpy> Stumpy is now known as dastumster
[17:53:56] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[17:53:56] <skunkworks> I'm feeling lazy .. but here's the log anyways:
[18:03:14] <skunkworks> I have a question.. Something I think I saw with emc2 + axis. Would a larger ngc file cause the backplot to run more slowly?
[18:04:38] <skunkworks> or the gui in general? as in the cone moving choppier.
[18:30:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I didn't notice that when I loaded a big program a while back
[18:30:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it was a g1 move repeated 100 000 times IIRC
[18:30:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> except for the atrocius loading time that is ;)
[18:31:43] <SWPadnos> it should cause things to slow down a bit, since the GUI needs to redraw many more objects
[18:33:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> this was a line superimposed over very many copies
[18:33:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe it onöy draws one then, if objects can't co-incide
[18:33:34] <SWPadnos> if it's separate segments (for the preview), then it's separate objects
[18:34:07] <SWPadnos> if it's backplot, then there's a new object every cycle (assuming there's been some movement)
[18:34:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:34:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> guess I didn't load enough lines
[18:35:27] <SWPadnos> I'm sure jepler has done some optimization so you don't get e.g. 100000 segments that are 0.000001 in length each
[18:35:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, probably something like a max_deviation parameter
[18:35:52] <SWPadnos> but for the most part, you have to add a new line or circle segment every update cycle
[18:35:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:36:09] <SWPadnos> plus all the ones that come from the preview plot
[18:39:49] <gkamysz> Hello! I have my machine moving. Two axes are moving in the wrong direction. Can I change the sign on the units for the axis, or is there another place in the HAL?
[18:40:23] <SWPadnos> in the ini file, change the sign of INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE for the two axes that are moving the wrong direction
[18:41:08] <gkamysz> OK, I must have missed that in the manual.
[18:41:30] <SWPadnos> make sure they're actually going the wrong way though - remember that it's the tooltip motion which is described by G-code, so a moving gantry may look like it moves the "wrong" way when operating correctly
[18:41:51] <SWPadnos> err - a table may move the wrong way - a gantry should look correct :)
[18:41:59] <SWPadnos> (see - it does get confusing)
[18:43:04] <skunkworks> my father had a hard time with that starting out - I had to keep telling him - don't look at the table - look at the spindle
[18:43:26] <gkamysz> Yes, I've run the machine before with Turbocnc. i also need to figure out how to setup the limit switches.
[18:43:31] <skunkworks> (look at it from the spindle perspective)
[18:43:34] <SWPadnos> yeah - think of a pen in the spindle drawing on graph paper
[18:43:48] <skunkworks> exactly
[18:44:15] <skunkworks> snowing here. :)
[18:44:39] <gkamysz> It snowed this morning. Chicagoland. it's all gone now.
[18:45:05] <skunkworks> your close - I am near Lacrosse Wi
[18:45:29] <gkamysz> I have an aunt in Tomah.
[18:45:46] <skunkworks> I have an aunt in chicago :)
[18:46:10] <gkamysz> :)
[18:47:18] <gkamysz> Is it safe to open and close EMC with drives enabled?
[18:47:42] <gkamysz> I don't have an estop configured yet.
[18:50:26] <skunkworks> That is how my machine is right now. F1 is the keyboard estop
[18:50:48] <skunkworks> esc is abort (something I love over turbocnc.)
[18:51:38] <skunkworks> plus emc is just 100 times better :)
[18:51:51] <skunkworks> 1000 maybe? :)
[18:52:36] <gkamysz> Yeah, I was running something with tcnc and had a problem, and it to me a while to figure out that esc wasn't going to stop it.
[18:54:35] <gkamysz> I just started playing with EMC and never touched linux before so this is all new. EMC is far more capable than tcnc. But tcnc is easier to setup for a non computer person.
[19:00:03] <skunkworks> right
[19:01:13] <dastumster> the guy Im doin the build for lives in WI
[19:01:25] <dastumster> small world
[19:03:50] <gkamysz> Well I'm starving, too busy to eat lunch until now. Thanks for the help. bbl
[19:03:55] <skunkworks> I was the same way.. Started with turbocnc but wanted something with some look-ahead
[19:04:19] <gkamysz> Yes, look ahead is what I'm after too.
[19:04:31] <skunkworks> finally got the bdi to work and was not impressed.. then found emc2 -- it blew me away.
[19:06:13] <gkamysz> I thought I needed feedback to run EMC. When i checked again recently I noticed it would run open loop. So I decided to try. I'm impressed.
[19:07:24] <skunkworks> we have a largeish gangry running steppers with emc2 now. Works great. The next project is to retro fit a big mill we have with servos using emc as the servo loop.
[19:09:37] <skunkworks> dastumster: where abouts in wi?
[19:16:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so what basic stuff doesn't turbo cnc do?
[19:17:08] <skunkworks> it doesn't have look ahead yet. It is hard to abort a program without loosing steps. No GUI
[19:17:19] <skunkworks> to name a few - plus it is dos
[19:17:32] <cradek> it really stops at the end of every segment?
[19:17:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no look ahead?
[19:17:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> at all?
[19:17:45] <skunkworks> nope.
[19:17:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so no blending in corners?
[19:17:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that sounds really primitive
[19:18:13] <skunkworks> credek - yes - to a how you have the accell setup and how fast you can start the stepper.
[19:18:24] <cradek> the maxnc software I used to use did stop at the end of every segment, even if the next one went in the same direction like g1x0 g1x1 g1x2
[19:19:10] <skunkworks> exactly the same although if your steppers can start at a certain step rate - that helps for slow cuts
[19:19:56] <cradek> tiny machines can have pretty high accels, so software for tiny machines can probably somewhat get away with not blending
[19:20:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> sounds nasty nonetheless
[19:20:16] <gkamysz> Yes, that's how tcnc works. it's extremely slow if you use something like meshcam to make 3D surfaces. I'm hoping EMC will make the parts faster and smoother.
[19:20:17] <cradek> yeah, it sure works better with emc
[19:20:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what OS is it based on?
[19:20:24] <cradek> gkamysz: it will
[19:20:29] <gkamysz> tncn = DOS
[19:20:47] <gkamysz> TCNC that is
[19:21:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok. does dos have any issues with random interrupts that take a lot of time?
[19:21:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ie not good for RT stuff
[19:21:28] <skunkworks> tcnc is a decent program and easy as gkamysz. emc is just a much much better controller.
[19:22:14] <gkamysz> I don't know? TCNC only runs open loop.
[19:22:19] <cradek> is tcnc the one with the very peculiar user interface with all the different shapes and colors?
[19:22:33] <skunkworks> Lerneaen_Hydra: depends on the computer. I had issues running tcnc on some portables.
[19:22:56] <skunkworks> cradek: it is a text based UI
[19:23:01] <cradek> oh ok
[19:23:05] <cradek> like the maxnc I used
[19:23:23] <cradek> what's the one with all the different shapes and colors and things that blink for no obvious reason?
[19:23:25] <skunkworks> Don't think I have ever seen screen shots of maxnc
[19:23:39] <skunkworks> mach?
[19:23:45] <cradek> it's just a basic text mode thing (or was when I used it years ago)
[19:23:56] <cradek> right, mach, couldn't think of it
[19:24:13] <cradek> I saw that briefly at fest
[19:24:16] <gkamysz> TCNC 4 has an updated interface with mouse support.
[19:24:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> random blinking lights?
[19:24:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> like jurasic park or tron?
[19:24:34] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes, some buttons had blinking, I don't know why
[19:29:23] <skunkworks> :) I had tcnc 4 (I was beta testing it) Like I say - it was better than nothing. (that sounds harsh)
[19:30:30] <cradek> hmm, let's talk about emc, a slamfest of other programs is not very nice
[19:30:41] <cradek> I should not have brought up mach :-)
[19:31:08] <skunkworks> :) I didn't mean it as a slam. It just not in the same class.
[19:31:18] <skunkworks> it surves its purpose
[19:31:21] <cradek> I understand
[19:31:23] <skunkworks> serves
[19:31:57] <SWPadnos> slamfest sounds like a wrestling event
[19:32:00] <cradek> so anyway, let us know if you need help setting up emc, it should be really straightforward for an open loop system
[19:32:11] <gkamysz> what do i need to do set up limit switches?
[19:32:49] <cradek> the first thing is to set up a config to customize: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[19:33:08] <cradek> you will want to use "stepper" as your starting point
[19:33:36] <gkamysz> I have my machine running on a custom INI. based on Stepper mm.
[19:33:54] <cradek> then you will configure the switches in HAL, the hardware abstraction layer (configures how to connect physical things like switches to emc's brains)
[19:34:13] <cradek> ok great you've already done this then
[19:34:57] <cradek> looks like you have standard_pinout.hal
[19:35:27] <cradek> there's an example at the bottom of hooking the spindle-on output of the motion controller to a parallel port pin
[19:35:39] <gkamysz> I need to add the limit switches and assign parport pins. Yes on pinout.hal
[19:35:55] <gkamysz> OK.
[19:35:56] <cradek> how are your switches wired? any of them together?
[19:36:11] <cradek> do you want to home on one limit?
[19:36:44] <gkamysz> I have optical switches. each axis only sends a limit signal regardless of + or- limit
[19:36:58] <gkamysz> Yes i set up the ini for home on limit.
[19:37:12] <cradek> ok so you have three inputs, one for each axis (both limits)
[19:37:27] <cradek> so make three signals with "newsig"
[19:37:28] <gkamysz> Well no limit on Z right now, but yes.
[19:37:42] <cradek> for example call them x_limit_switches etc
[19:37:57] <gkamysz> Where do I do that?
[19:38:05] <cradek> in that halfile we were talking about
[19:38:32] <gkamysz> pinout?
[19:38:37] <cradek> yes
[19:38:47] <cradek> look at the spindle_on example at the end of the file
[19:38:51] <cradek> you'll be doing a similar thing
[19:39:42] <gkamysz> OK let me work on it for a bit and I'll ask if I need help. thanks for the nudge.
[19:40:09] <cradek> the inputs are axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in, etc, for axis.1 and axis.2 (x,y,z = 0,1,2) and neg,pos
[19:42:39] <some_plus> some_plus is now known as some_some
[19:43:35] <gkamysz> does it matter that pos and neg signal is on the same parport pin?
[19:45:00] <cradek> no I don't think so
[19:45:23] <cradek> but if you hit a limit you will have to use override limits to jog off of it, since emc can't allow you to go either way (not knowing which way is safe)
[19:48:43] <gkamysz> That's OK. This is what I did in pinout.hal
[19:49:12] <gkamysz> newsig X_limit bit
[19:49:12] <gkamysz> newsig Y_limit bit
[19:49:12] <gkamysz> linksp X_limit iocontrol.0.X_limit
[19:49:12] <gkamysz> linksp Y_limit iocontrol.0.Y_limit
[19:49:12] <gkamysz> linksp X_limit parport.0.pin-10-in
[19:49:13] <gkamysz> linksp Y_limit parport.0.pin-12-in
[19:50:09] <cradek> that's very close
[19:50:37] <cradek> but the "pins" you need to hook to are axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in and axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in for X, and axis.1..... for Y
[19:51:22] <gkamysz> so after the io i need the correct pin not my made up one
[19:51:32] <SWPadnos> heh - that's a good description ;)
[19:51:37] <cradek> yes
[19:52:07] <cradek> and you'll need 4 of them, since you want to hook each signal to both neg- and pos-
[19:52:16] <gkamysz> yep got it
[19:54:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[19:56:31] <gkamysz> OK. Does anything else need to be done?
[19:57:10] <cradek> nope I think that's about it
[19:57:39] <cradek> for homing you will have to look in the manual and set your homing velocities to configure what it does when you hit home
[19:57:57] <cradek> the manual has nice diagrams of what the two homing velocities do
[19:58:10] <cradek> and I'm not trying to be unhelpful, I'd have to look too :-)
[19:59:04] <gkamysz> Yes, I already did that. I'm going to try it now. How does the system know if the signal is high or low though?
[19:59:09] <cradek> also be aware you have several user interfaces to choose from - I prefer axis
[19:59:56] <cradek> if it's wrong, you can invert the parport pin in hal
[20:00:20] <cradek> 08 bit OUT TRUE parport.0.pin-15-in
[20:00:21] <cradek> 08 bit OUT FALSE parport.0.pin-15-in-not
[20:00:35] <cradek> for each parport pin you can use -in or -in-not
[20:01:21] <cradek> brb
[20:07:53] <cradek> I thought of two things while getting coffee
[20:08:03] <cradek> you have to hook up the switches to the home input for each axis too
[20:08:11] <cradek> and this is very serious:
[20:08:34] <cradek> if you set up emc to search (say) left for the home switch, and you're on the left switch when you home, it will know to go right (off the switch) first.
[20:08:51] <cradek> with your setup if you happen to be on the right switch when you home, emc will go the wrong way and crash.
[20:09:31] <cradek> you can fix this without using any more inputs though: hook all the "left" ends together and all the "right" ends together, then home on all the "lefts"
[20:09:36] <SWPadnos> ... crash the machine, not the PC or emc software
[20:09:42] <cradek> right, crash the machine
[20:12:07] <cradek> SWPadnos: next time when I'm giving bad advice, say something :-)
[20:12:19] <SWPadnos> err - only if I notice ;)
[20:12:29] <cradek> fair enough
[20:13:06] <SWPadnos> but you can't have lefts / rights and single axis limits at the same time
[20:13:20] <SWPadnos> (unless you add diodes or something)
[20:13:34] <cradek> what do you mean by "single axis limits"
[20:14:36] <SWPadnos> in other words, when any "left" (min) switch is hit, all the min limit inputs will be hit simultaneously
[20:14:44] <cradek> right
[20:15:06] <cradek> but since all it does is stop the machine, I don't think that's serious
[20:15:23] <cradek> sure you'll have to look at it to see what to move in order to recover
[20:15:38] <SWPadnos> you can't tell what axis has actually hit the limit (in software - one could always look at the machine)
[20:15:48] <cradek> this homing crash is a much more serious problem
[20:15:55] <cradek> yes I mean you have to look at the machine
[20:15:56] <SWPadnos> right, and the dialog will always say "axis 0 limit switch hit"
[20:16:01] <SWPadnos> or whatever
[20:16:08] <cradek> actually I think you get three dialogs :-)
[20:16:15] <SWPadnos> even better
[20:16:22] <gkamysz> I had this arrangement working on TCNC. Its OK if I have to check it to move off limit.
[20:16:37] <gkamysz> When connecting to the partport in
[20:16:41] <gkamysz> oops
[20:16:46] <cradek> well it will work but there's this potential serious problem with homing.
[20:17:04] <cradek> a better configuration is the one I described
[20:17:19] <SWPadnos> less dangerous, more annoying
[20:17:23] <SWPadnos> so probably better
[20:17:27] <cradek> right
[20:17:44] <gkamysz> tie the neg limits together and same for pos?
[20:17:51] <cradek> yes
[20:18:03] <gkamysz> that's easy to change
[20:18:10] <SWPadnos> yep, that'll use only two inputs for all axes as well (so you can add Z without using any more pins)
[20:18:11] <cradek> then hook only one end of each axis to the home input
[20:18:56] <gkamysz> linksp X_limit parport.0.pin-10-in is this correct or should I be using the axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in in this line? EMC won't start with the former
[20:19:50] <SWPadnos> you may want to name those signals something like low-limits and high_limits
[20:20:03] <gkamysz> just thought of that too.
[20:20:16] <cradek> I don't see a problem with that first line but maybe in context I would
[20:20:23] <cradek> we like to use pastebin.ca to paste blocks of text
[20:20:31] <cradek> if you'd like us to see the whole thing
[20:20:47] <gkamysz> ??????linux noob
[20:21:05] <cradek> a web site that lets you paste a big block of text, then you get a url to give the irc channel
[20:21:07] <SWPadnos> go to http://pastebin.ca and paste in the text from the file
[20:21:29] <SWPadnos> you can do this by selecting all of it with the mouse, then middle-click in the text entry box
[20:22:17] <SWPadnos> or ctrl-A to select all, ctrl-C to copy, then ctrl-V to paste (assuming you're using a graphical editor, such as gedit or the "text editor" menu item)
[20:22:21] <gkamysz> http://pastebin.ca/199889\
[20:23:21] <cradek> those inputs are axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in etc, not iocontrol.0.axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in etc.
[20:23:28] <SWPadnos> I'd rename X_limit to neg_limit, and connect it to the obvious axis.n.neg... pins
[20:23:37] <SWPadnos> similar for pos_limit
[20:24:40] <gkamysz> OK. let me try that.
[20:24:48] <SWPadnos> something like this: http://pastebin.ca/199895
[20:25:00] <SWPadnos> but check for errors ;)
[20:25:11] <cradek> that looks good to me
[20:27:19] <gkamysz> OK I edited already. I haven't rewired the machine so I didn't change it to pos/neg. EMC starts and tells me limits are active, so I need to invert.
[20:28:29] <SWPadnos> cool. it's better for you to do it for yourself anyway (better learning experience:) )
[20:29:07] <cradek> the only other thing you'll want is to configure soft limits (in the INI) to make emc stop a little short of the limit switches in normal operation
[20:29:23] <gkamysz> Yep did that with soft limits.
[20:29:25] <cradek> that's after you get homed
[20:29:34] <cradek> cool, you're way ahead of us
[20:30:21] <gkamysz> I know basically what I need to do. Getting the idea from my head into the Hals is hard., i have never programmed anything.
[20:30:30] <cradek> now you have
[20:30:41] <K`zan> G'day all
[20:30:42] <gkamysz> :)
[20:30:47] <cradek> and I bet you write gcode too, which makes you a programmer in my mind
[20:31:04] <gkamysz> Yeah i've done some Gcode
[20:34:30] <gkamysz> Gcode is easy for me to understand because it's logic and geometry. I've done a lot of drafting so I can see it in my head. I need to print the HAL tutorial to look at it, it would make more sense.
[20:35:26] <cradek> HAL is a simple concept (hook pins of components together using signals, just like on a circuit board) but there are a lot of details
[20:36:36] <gkamysz> Yeah but for me to grasp it I need the diagrams to go along with a list
[20:37:09] <cradek> yeah we all agree! we have a graphical viewer that looks just like a circuit editor in the works
[20:37:22] <gkamysz> Cool!
[20:38:06] <cradek> there are some screenshots around ... maybe someone remembers the url and will speak up
[20:38:35] <gkamysz> I think i saw them
[20:38:40] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/hallelujah5.png
[20:39:23] <cradek> thanks jepler
[20:39:53] <gkamysz> That helps
[20:40:04] <jepler> work on it has stalled just a bit
[20:40:13] <jepler> as in, I haven't touched it in two weeks
[20:51:20] <jepler> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/10/12/wireless-wiring-for-radios/
[20:52:15] <SWPadnos> that's awfully modern ;)
[20:54:36] <cradek> wow I would have never thought of sandblasting
[20:54:48] <SWPadnos> interesting that it's a 60 year old article
[20:55:03] <SWPadnos> and it's basically the same method used to make chips today (s/sandblast/etch/ ...)
[20:55:32] <cradek> every one of the tube-sockets-on-pcb radios I've worked on sucked. The rats-nest was much better.
[20:55:51] <cradek> fortunately pcbs and tubes didn't overlap for too long
[20:56:17] <cradek> arrgh just thinking of the predicta TV makes me cringe
[21:02:18] <gkamysz> Does one know how picky the system is about input signals? My limits are 5V high and ~0.5 low. is this a problem?
[21:02:34] <cradek> probably not
[21:03:00] <gkamysz> It worked for TCNC. I can't seen to get the invert code correct.
[21:03:27] <cradek> if it worked with other software, it'll work with emc because it's a function of the parallel port itself, not the program
[21:03:49] <gkamysz> OK I thought that should be hardware.
[21:03:53] <cradek> right
[21:04:59] <SWPadnos> so it behaves the same regardless of whether you use parport.0.pin-10-in or ...pin-10-in-not ?
[21:05:20] <gkamysz> you gave me the code for the invert before what does the 08 in front mean, and shouldn't the OUT be IN for the limit input?
[21:05:37] <cradek> well that's one of the confusions of hal
[21:06:02] <cradek> it's an out from the parallel module that you hook to inputs of the motion controller
[21:06:08] <gkamysz> OK
[21:06:24] <cradek> you have to think of it from a point of view inside hal
[21:06:59] <cradek> the 08 means nothing to me ("owner"?)
[21:07:09] <cradek> I pasted the output of "halcmd show pin parport"
[21:07:46] <gkamysz> And if I read the hal doc correctly I need to code both states?
[21:07:58] <cradek> also there's "halshow" which is a nice program you can use to view the hal pins
[21:08:10] <cradek> I don't understand your question
[21:08:23] <cradek> you can use either the -in or the -in-not pin for this connection
[21:08:36] <SWPadnos> the -in and -in-not pins are provided for convenience, you will generally use only one of the two
[21:08:39] <cradek> in-not is the same bit on the parport, but inverted
[21:09:17] <gkamysz> OK that might be the problem
[21:10:36] <robin_sz> * robin_sz thinks of tube-on-pcb radios he has known ...
[21:11:37] <robin_sz> I had a Yaesu FT DX560 ... thats was tubes on PCB
[21:11:41] <robin_sz> ick
[21:11:46] <robin_sz> yes, it did catch fire.
[21:11:51] <cradek> haha
[21:12:18] <robin_sz> the old valve comms rx were nice
[21:12:23] <robin_sz> like the B40
[21:13:00] <robin_sz> and the AR-88D
[21:13:12] <gkamysz> I have a Counterpoint SA-100 and Tjoeb 99
[21:13:55] <robin_sz> i dont think I have any valve gear anymore ...
[21:14:16] <robin_sz> oh, wait, I do ...
[21:14:25] <gkamysz> Unfortunately i haven't listened for a while.
[21:14:30] <robin_sz> a Henry Radio amplifier :)
[21:15:13] <robin_sz> Henry make nice tube amps,
[21:24:35] <skunkworks> we sold an tube audio compressor to an engineer from simply red :)
[21:24:44] <skunkworks> in the uk
[21:27:26] <gkamysz> My limits are high when inactive. This means that the partport pin needs to be inverted.
[21:27:47] <gkamysz> bit OUT parport.0.pin-10-in-not ____this is what I used.
[21:28:14] <gkamysz> Is something missing?
[21:29:15] <skunkworks> wouldn't you want them to be -in then?
[21:30:43] <gkamysz> I don't know, I tried both.
[21:31:52] <gkamysz> I'm looking at Show hal and it says true right now with the pin high and the code as shown
[21:35:23] <cradek> gkamysz: pastebin again
[21:35:28] <A-L-P-H-A> oh freak'n WOW...
[21:35:41] <A-L-P-H-A> the fenner power twist plus v-belts, are SO much quieter.
[21:36:24] <A-L-P-H-A> $60CDN/7ft. after taxes.
[21:38:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I should do a group buy on this stuff.
[21:38:25] <gkamysz> the invert code should be in parport.hal?
[21:39:25] <cradek> where you hooked those limit signals up, you change the name of the parport pin right there
[21:40:06] <gkamysz> OK
[21:50:44] <gkamysz> I figured it out. I didn't know the syntax for using the invert.
[21:53:23] <cradek> glad you got it
[21:54:01] <cradek> I'm leaving for a while, yell and someone else will help if you need it
[21:55:28] <gkamysz> Thanks for your time!
[22:08:28] <Guest377> To someone in cyberspace - not only have I zero experience in using IRC but also Linux. Please bear with me. I downloaded Live-CD and unpacked it using winrar and burned the resulting directory structure to a CD. I assumed that this CD would boot and allow me to install the results onto a free hard drive in my system. It did not boot so I am doing something wrong. I am interested in installing Ubuntu and EMC - any suggestions? Thanx, Ray
[22:10:15] <gkamysz> The file you downloaded was an iso?
[22:10:58] <Guest377> Yes - a least that is what I think - I got it from the link on the LinuxCNC.org site.
[22:11:07] <gkamysz> Yes, in that case.
[22:12:38] <gkamysz> This is a disk image. You need to use your CD writing software to burn it onto the disk. If everything is setup all you have to do is double click the .iso file and your software will fire up and you just hit start.
[22:12:48] <Guest377> When unpacked and burned it has what appears to be a 'normal' directory structure
[22:13:01] <gkamysz> Don't unpack.
[22:14:41] <Guest377> Oops! one more question - unfortunately I am running winXP until I can get a Linux install - will the files open correctly from winXP and can I steer the install to my spare HD?
[22:16:45] <gkamysz> You can install on another drive. You will want to search for dual boot on www.ubuntuforms.org. I didn't do that but had major issues trying to install. Take the time to verify the CD when you boot from it. If at all possible back up your windows drive if you don't remove it during linux install.
[22:19:06] <Guest377> I am happy to remove it and I indeed tried this thinking that the CD was bootable and by magic would let me install everything onto the spare HD. How do I verify the CD?
[22:27:35] <Guest377> Also - my spare HD is formatted with FAT32 - will the Ubuntu install on this or does it reformat to some other Linux file system?
[22:27:57] <robin_sz> should do
[22:28:09] <robin_sz> it should remove the windows virus for you
[22:30:28] <Guest377> OK - if I am understanding correctly - the file I download from the linuxcnc site should be burned 'as is' onto a CD. If I remove the win HD from the system leaving the CD drive and my spare HD set to 'master', what do I do next? (I told you I don't have a clue!) thanx
[22:31:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/ (23 files):
[22:31:30] <CIA-8> manpages for many rtapi and hal functions, mostly taken from the comments
[22:31:30] <CIA-8> in hal.h and rtapi.h
[22:31:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: build man3 pages into html
[22:31:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/tools.lyx: build man3 pages into html
[22:32:19] <jepler> oops, didn't mean to commit that tools.lyx...
[22:32:20] <jepler> oh well
[22:33:11] <gkamysz> guest, you dont' want to copy the iso the the disk. The iso is a file used to make the disk. The cd writer software will know what to do with it.
[22:34:49] <gkamysz> I'm not sure about the procedure to dual boot. I read the best was to remove the win drive altogether. but how to boot to one or the other after I'm not sure.
[22:35:28] <Guest377> OH! - now I know what you meant by 'click the ISO' - I assume the file will sniff out my burning software and continue on??
[22:35:53] <jepler> that depends entirely on the windows cd burning software you have .. each one is different
[22:38:05] <gkamysz> If all goes well your burning software will come up and all you need to do is put in a blank disk and burn it.
[22:38:07] <Guest377> Let me try fiddling with what you people have suggested. While I am doing things with Linux the win drive will be out of the picture and the system will (hopefully) think it is linux. If I get that far I will wrestle the dual boot thing later. thanx and goodbye for now.
[22:38:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: don't include skeleton manpages in html. sort manpages.
[22:39:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/emc-environment.in: set the MANPATH so that 'man' finds the manpages
[23:40:50] <cradek> hi jmk
[23:41:00] <jmkasunich> hi
[23:41:43] <cradek> yikes
[23:41:49] <gkamysz> Cradek, I setup home switches but now limits don't do anything.
[23:41:53] <cradek> did you see the kins file we're supposed to say is right or not?
[23:42:06] <cradek> gkamysz: limit switches or soft limits?
[23:42:29] <gkamysz> limits
[23:42:41] <jmkasunich> I didn't see anything
[23:42:45] <cradek> pastebin.ca your halfile again please
[23:42:58] <jmkasunich> we had a power failure this morning, and I'm just bringing stuff up again
[23:43:25] <cradek> just received 15 minutes ago
[23:44:09] <cradek> bbl
[23:44:33] <gkamysz> http://pastebin.ca/200138
[23:45:21] <jmkasunich> ok, what am I looking for?
[23:48:23] <gkamysz> http://pastebin.ca/200147
[23:49:03] <gkamysz> Well I setup my limit switches first. them I found out the limit switch pin in hal isn't enough to home it.
[23:49:18] <jmkasunich> you want to home from a limit switch?
[23:49:40] <gkamysz> Then I added The home pin in hal and it won't detect limts now. Yes home on limit.
[23:50:34] <jmkasunich> the pastebin has an ini file
[23:50:45] <jmkasunich> what about your hal file?
[23:51:35] <gkamysz> The second paste bin should be hal
[23:52:27] <jmkasunich> duh, didn't see that one
[23:53:15] <jmkasunich> I see the problem
[23:53:42] <jmkasunich> oops, no I don't
[23:54:04] <jmkasunich> yes I do ;-)
[23:54:09] <gkamysz> I thinkI see it too
[23:54:28] <jmkasunich> you have two signals, X_limit and X_home, and you connected them both to one pin (parport.0.pin-12-in-not)
[23:54:56] <jmkasunich> delete the "newsig X_home" (and Y_home) lines
[23:55:13] <jmkasunich> and change all the other occurances of X_Home to X_Limit, and Y_Home to Y_Limit
[23:55:27] <gkamysz> Oh, I don't have a new signal I'm just connecting it to another hal pin
[23:55:29] <jmkasunich> X_limit that is, no capital L
[23:55:40] <jmkasunich> line 47 creates a new signal
[23:56:19] <jmkasunich> line 50 connects the new signal to the parport pin (which disconnects the old one, X_limit)
[23:57:02] <gkamysz> I get it now.