#emc | Logs for 2006-10-11

[00:00:13] <A-L-P-H-A> he probably buys from from HF when on sale, and resells them again for $6 more. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1758
[00:11:25] <robin_sz> heh, 21 dollars! .
[00:11:28] <robin_sz> expensive
[00:12:10] <robin_sz> they are £6 on ebay here, with £3 shipping, striaght from Hong Kong
[00:12:52] <robin_sz> I buy a few for the factory from time to time, last lot came with an offfer of a crate of 10, delivered for £85
[00:13:03] <robin_sz> exact same device
[00:13:20] <A-L-P-H-A> nice
[00:13:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I bought mine for $15USD I think.
[00:13:35] <A-L-P-H-A> HF had a sale...
[00:13:43] <A-L-P-H-A> so i bought a 4 and 8" ones.
[00:13:48] <A-L-P-H-A> had a 6" already
[00:14:03] <robin_sz> they are so cheap
[00:14:15] <robin_sz> but work fine
[00:14:19] <A-L-P-H-A> they didn't used to be.
[00:14:24] <robin_sz> quite
[00:14:36] <A-L-P-H-A> my 6" I think I bought for $50CDN... cause at that time I didn't know better.
[00:14:36] <robin_sz> the real ones still are expensive
[00:15:08] <robin_sz> like Moore and Wright or Rabone Chesterman or Mitutoyo
[00:15:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I only need +/- 0.005" accuracy really...
[00:16:38] <ejholmgren> make's me appreciate my printing job
[00:16:49] <ejholmgren> +/- .06"
[00:17:24] <robin_sz> we typically work to +-0.2mm on the sheet metal
[00:19:13] <robin_sz> question, a customer sends in a DXF for a part .. theres a hole with a tolerance, he prefers we end up the upper end of the tolerance ...
[00:19:27] <robin_sz> does he draw he hole to upper tolerance?
[00:19:31] <robin_sz> mid tolerance
[00:19:39] <robin_sz> or lower tolerance?
[00:20:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I forget... does DXF have layers?
[00:20:25] <robin_sz> it does ...
[00:20:30] <A-L-P-H-A> if so... DIM it with tolerances. of 1" +0.xyv -0.000
[00:20:39] <A-L-P-H-A> if so... DIM it with tolerances. of 1" +0.xyv/-0.000
[00:20:56] <A-L-P-H-A> therefore you draw it to size. and show the tolerance in the dims.
[00:21:00] <robin_sz> whatever, we just cut out the profiles right,
[00:21:05] <robin_sz> the laser cant read
[00:21:21] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: well... then. draw it right to be begin with. :)
[00:21:23] <robin_sz> so they draw the holes to bottom tolerance ..
[00:21:31] <robin_sz> and then whine ...
[00:21:38] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: Q.
[00:21:47] <robin_sz> the laser actually cut them -.05
[00:21:53] <A-L-P-H-A> how does the user know to cut to the left or right of the line? or on the line?
[00:21:56] <robin_sz> which was pretty damn close
[00:22:04] <robin_sz> the user?
[00:22:13] <A-L-P-H-A> the laser cuts...
[00:22:23] <robin_sz> the drawing is for the part you want
[00:22:31] <A-L-P-H-A> lets say I have a sqare sheet, and want to to cut a hole in it...
[00:22:40] <robin_sz> the gcode generator offsets the path half the width of the cut
[00:22:43] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: the 3d part? or 2d?
[00:22:59] <A-L-P-H-A> okay, to the knarf width is known.
[00:23:03] <robin_sz> it is
[00:23:09] <robin_sz> kerf
[00:23:25] <robin_sz> 0.3mm roughly
[00:23:29] <A-L-P-H-A> thought iwas knerf... [shrug]
[00:23:42] <A-L-P-H-A> it
[00:24:20] <A-L-P-H-A> guess you'd have to have a drawing standards that you need to have the client comply with... or you comply with their drawing standards.
[00:24:32] <robin_sz> whatever, mid tolerance would have been a good size circle to draw .. or even upper tolerance if they prefer it to be closer to that end ...
[00:24:46] <robin_sz> but drawing it lower tolerance is just asking for problems
[00:30:01] <robin_sz> still, we have very weird customers .. oh yes.
[00:44:09] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: do you guys print on metal as well?
[00:46:21] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.luckow.com/clients/woz/images/WOZMetalProof.jpg
[02:35:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/.cvsignore: ignore new generated file
[05:20:19] <jmkasunich> I hereby predict that in the next two or three days I will stumble across a 6" length of 1.5" diameter steel bar
[05:20:57] <jmkasunich> how do I know this? because said bar (which I could swear I had) disappeared when I needed it, and I just finished turning a piece of 1.875" bar down to 1.5"
[05:21:16] <jmkasunich> lots of blue chips
[05:31:14] <A-L-P-H-A_> hi
[05:53:41] <K`zan> Got to figure out which of the linux offerings from Synergy will install on gentoo...
[05:54:07] <K`zan> oops ww :-)
[05:55:06] <A-L-P-H-A> K`zan: traitor.
[05:55:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to get quotes in the morning for 8 ft of twist locking v-belts.
[06:23:28] <A-L-P-H-A> will the real alex_joni please stand up
[06:30:59] <alex_joni> wha?
[06:31:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sits down
[06:40:47] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[06:40:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I was in the kitchen making some coffee, sorry
[06:41:11] <A-L-P-H-A> morning alex_joni.
[06:46:32] <K`zan> A-L-P-H-A: Traitor? I'm no liberal :-) :-) :-).
[06:46:50] <A-L-P-H-A> lies
[06:47:03] <K`zan> You would be an expert on that :-)
[06:47:12] <A-L-P-H-A> so what's up?
[06:47:13] <A-L-P-H-A> new?
[06:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> exciting?
[06:47:21] <A-L-P-H-A> photos?
[06:47:22] <A-L-P-H-A> new photos?
[06:47:26] <A-L-P-H-A> old photos?
[06:47:42] <K`zan> lots, check my web site early and often :-).
[06:47:51] <A-L-P-H-A> young hot model photos of women?
[06:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know it
[06:48:00] <A-L-P-H-A> the website
[06:48:08] <K`zan> Made up a lap hold down nut for Jean's facetor the other night.
[06:48:27] <K`zan> Enough smut out there it needs no additional help from me :-).
[06:48:42] <A-L-P-H-A> what's that?
[06:48:47] <A-L-P-H-A> Jean's facetor?
[06:48:50] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/
[06:48:57] <K`zan> Top project.
[06:49:03] <K`zan> She makes pretty stones...
[06:49:09] <K`zan> She machines rocks :-).
[06:49:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm confused.
[06:49:43] <A-L-P-H-A> what's it do?
[06:50:17] <K`zan> Makes faceted stones. Like jewelry and that kind of thing.
[06:50:30] <A-L-P-H-A> how's it make them? [I'm curious now]
[06:50:35] <K`zan> Also nice for sharpening carbide bits - diamond lap.
[06:50:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm always curious.
[06:50:46] <K`zan> google "faceted stones"
[06:51:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I know what the stones are...
[06:51:25] <A-L-P-H-A> just don't know how that tool works.
[06:51:39] <K`zan> Interesting process, there is a rod that the stones attach to and a mechanism that fits in that allows the precise setting of angles(the facets).
[06:52:16] <K`zan> It just grinds that area flat to form the facet.
[06:52:35] <A-L-P-H-A> ooh... to you rotate # of times the number of facets, and then change the angle to do another array of facets.
[06:53:23] <K`zan> Yep, that is it.
[06:53:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I _NEED_ to make a new table still...
[06:53:37] <K`zan> SOunds simple, but getting it all to line up seems to be the challenge.
[06:53:40] <A-L-P-H-A> haven't bother yet. :/
[06:53:56] <K`zan> I'm still thrashing about CNCing the uMill...
[06:54:11] <A-L-P-H-A> thinking of putting adjustable casters on the bottom, so I can roll it later.
[06:54:20] <K`zan> I did get acad13 installed under, ugh, wincrap.
[06:54:32] <A-L-P-H-A> I lost windows, yesterday by accident.
[06:54:38] <A-L-P-H-A> that was not fun... or was it Monday.
[06:54:40] <K`zan> Get the locking casters, makes life simpler'
[06:55:40] <K`zan> Windoz has committed suicide on me so many times I just automatically re-install everything and don't foam at the mouth much anymore, it is a way of life with wincrap.
[06:57:18] <A-L-P-H-A> 300lb cap casters.. x 4... 1200 lbs.
[07:19:25] <K`zan> Even better idea for the locking casters :-).
[07:19:54] <K`zan> Main reason I am interested in the synergy thing is that it runs under linux.
[07:21:30] <alex_joni> we used to have one of the developers around :)
[07:21:56] <alex_joni> websys iirc
[07:23:15] <K`zan> I'll take a look at it, but if they are afraid to post their prices, I undoubtably can not afford it :-(.
[07:23:18] <alex_joni> this should work: http://www.webersys.com/download/debian.htm
[07:23:28] <alex_joni> K`zan: it depends what you need
[07:23:49] <alex_joni> if you need the full 5-axis CAM then you probably don't afford it
[07:24:19] <K`zan> alex_joni] is away (busy)
[07:24:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni _is_ busy
[07:24:54] <K`zan> 3 axis, does *anyone* do 2D parts, if so what is the point, a plotter will do that.
[07:25:16] <alex_joni> 3 axis might be around 1k or less
[07:25:43] <K`zan> Not in my budget at this point :-(.
[07:25:55] <K`zan> I guess I re-learn to use the old acad13 :-).
[07:26:03] <K`zan> under slimedoz, arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[07:27:26] <K`zan> That is almost enough to convince me to just sell it all, life is *tough* as a linux bigot.
[07:27:57] <alex_joni> acad13 works great under wine I heard
[07:29:37] <K`zan> The install blows up and the install copied from wincrap doesn't run right (read usefully).
[07:30:15] <K`zan> I find references to people that claim to have done that, but no indications of how they did it :-(.
[07:30:55] <K`zan> I deleted all the diskette images but:
[07:31:03] <K`zan> {~/ACADR13} $ l
[07:31:03] <K`zan> COMMON/ DOS/ WIN/
[07:31:14] <K`zan> Neither of them works right...
[07:42:34] <A-L-P-H-A> K`zan: my solution that I'm going to try soon, which may need your help... is
[07:42:55] <A-L-P-H-A> vmware workstation -> windows -> autocad
[07:45:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm almost willing to do the following... SCAN all my old documents through the sheet feeder, and go digital with my old bank statements etc.
[07:46:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I just need to make sure I have backups.
[07:58:29] <K`zan> I'd use acad13 under windoz raw before I'd spring for vmware...
[07:58:44] <K`zan> Got too many things I need right at the moment.
[08:00:25] <K`zan> But I do have several spare machines at the moment that are all networked, so that makes it easy. Even acad13 will run reasonably well on a 266 PII.'
[08:00:44] <K`zan> For what I am doing anyway :-). Or likely to do anytime soon.
[08:01:25] <K`zan> I just have an adversion to running wincrap. One thing I have discovered over the decades of dealing with m$ crap is that it works much better the less you use it :).
[08:02:01] <K`zan> Anyway folks, it has been a LONG arsed day and I really am beat, time to go fall over.
[09:17:17] <Bo^Dick> this is what i've done so far, http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/1.jpg
[09:25:06] <A-L-P-H-A> checking
[09:25:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Bo^Dick: whats the scope showing?
[09:30:26] <Bo^Dick> it shows the waveform generated from my stepper driver
[09:30:51] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[09:31:00] <Bo^Dick> the corresponding phase signal is shown as well (bottom trace)
[09:35:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't believe how clean my desk is. :D
[09:37:34] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: I've got another motor comming along
[09:37:56] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: this time it's a star type motor and not a gear motor..
[09:37:57] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: cool... $?
[09:38:04] <anonimasu> how would I know?
[09:38:06] <A-L-P-H-A> what's a star?
[09:38:13] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: cause you ordered it?
[09:38:16] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the $
[09:38:23] <anonimasu> nope..
[09:38:24] <A-L-P-H-A> cost?
[09:38:27] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[09:38:33] <anonimasu> I have no idea..
[09:38:51] <anonimasu> the motor are 2krpm and loads of more torque
[09:39:01] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[09:39:03] <anonimasu> ett 2500 I think..
[09:39:17] <anonimasu> with what I can yeah..
[09:39:39] <anonimasu> the other motors are the same as pumps
[09:40:01] <anonimasu> :)
[09:40:09] <anonimasu> http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/images/motors/E-MOLO-MC001-E_cov-prods.jpg
[09:40:12] <anonimasu> like the smallest one
[09:41:57] <anonimasu> :)
[09:42:20] <anonimasu> im going to run ungeared and machine a housing for the gears
[09:42:31] <anonimasu> gears and belts..
[09:43:55] <anonimasu> 2500rpm is enough to cut alu at..
[09:44:27] <anonimasu> tough a bit slow
[09:44:56] <anonimasu> 562mm/min
[09:45:03] <anonimasu> with a 3 flute cutter
[09:45:13] <A-L-P-H-A> umm.. .that's that in DOC.
[09:45:18] <A-L-P-H-A> per tooth?
[09:45:22] <anonimasu> 0.075
[09:45:30] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... that's good...
[09:45:33] <anonimasu> depth of cut?
[09:45:33] <anonimasu> heh
[09:45:37] <anonimasu> 1cm?
[09:45:47] <anonimasu> 150% doc..
[09:45:56] <anonimasu> or something like it...
[09:46:38] <anonimasu> ^_^
[09:50:24] <anonimasu> until I start being scared of the part being pulled out of the vice..
[09:50:31] <anonimasu> vise.. ;)
[09:51:24] <A-L-P-H-A> you must master the art of making sure the part won't move, even if there's a black hole beside it. Once you have mastered that shall you become one with the machine.
[09:53:08] <anonimasu> hehe
[09:53:48] <anonimasu> usually I take something like 10 mm per pass..
[09:54:13] <anonimasu> rigid machine :)
[09:54:36] <anonimasu> *turns on the powerfeed and takes cover
[09:56:10] <anonimasu> I hope the motor arrives today
[10:07:43] <A-L-P-H-A> you SUCK... GIVE ME that schaublin. :D
[10:07:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I take like .1" off only.
[10:08:09] <A-L-P-H-A> 1/4 of your specs
[10:08:32] <anonimasu> :D
[10:08:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I probably could go more... I'll try later.
[10:08:44] <A-L-P-H-A> but 2.54mm is nothing.
[10:08:49] <anonimasu> agreed
[10:08:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll get 5mm this time... and see if I can get further.
[10:09:02] <anonimasu> 5mm is pretty good
[10:09:03] <A-L-P-H-A> that would be decent...
[10:09:05] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[10:09:06] <anonimasu> material goes away :)
[10:09:15] <A-L-P-H-A> well... as long as material becomes chips. :D
[10:09:25] <anonimasu> I want high spindle speed and fast feeds
[10:09:32] <anonimasu> depth isnt as important
[10:09:33] <A-L-P-H-A> surprising I never did shop in high school.
[10:09:41] <anonimasu> me neither
[10:09:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I want finish quality really.
[10:09:57] <A-L-P-H-A> on a lathe it's easy... HIGH rpm, slow feed rate.
[10:10:04] <anonimasu> yep
[10:10:13] <anonimasu> I'm going to mount a servo and use 0-10v to feed my lathe
[10:10:23] <anonimasu> so I can get super finish on my parts :)
[10:10:31] <anonimasu> and just push the gear back in then I want to thread
[10:10:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a DC servo on there...
[10:10:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 1/2hp.
[10:10:52] <A-L-P-H-A> or was it a 1hp
[10:10:57] <anonimasu> I have a ac servo for feed :)
[10:11:04] <anonimasu> with a integrated drive..
[10:11:10] <anonimasu> that you can program.. :)
[10:11:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't thread anyways... no threading attachment.
[10:11:27] <anonimasu> attachment?
[10:11:29] <A-L-P-H-A> last owner chewed up the gears, and tossed the system.
[10:11:32] <anonimasu> no gearbox you mean?
[10:11:33] <anonimasu> ouch
[10:11:36] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[10:11:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I could have made new gears.
[10:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> he could have as well.
[10:11:45] <anonimasu> that sucks majorly
[10:11:48] <A-L-P-H-A> it was such a BAD idea of that guy.
[10:11:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I now have to single point thread with the lathe.
[10:12:15] <anonimasu> im going cnc later on but I need ballscrews
[10:12:37] <A-L-P-H-A> q. do you need ballscrews, or just want ballscrews?
[10:12:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't need ballscrews on my lathe, the schaublin has so little backlash, and can be adjusted out.
[10:13:08] <anonimasu> my lathe has backslash.. not significant if you always feed in one direction
[10:13:22] <anonimasu> but the less backslash the better finished work..
[10:13:49] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: well... on a lathe, just go a super light, super fast RPM finishing pass... and it looks mint.
[10:14:14] <anonimasu> I know :)
[10:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> mind you, my stuff was small, but the quality was for resale, so the finish was super nice.
[10:14:18] <A-L-P-H-A> mirror. :D
[10:14:27] <A-L-P-H-A> 6061-t6... love that stuff.
[10:14:32] <anonimasu> it's acutally my y axis on the lathe
[10:14:33] <A-L-P-H-A> so easy to work with on the lathe.
[10:14:55] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:14:56] <A-L-P-H-A> lathe's usually have a Z (length), and X (radius)...
[10:15:05] <anonimasu> ah.. that'd be x..
[10:15:10] <anonimasu> I've never worked with a cnc lathe ;)
[10:15:23] <A-L-P-H-A> :) I had to learn all that stuff too.
[10:22:33] <anonimasu> :)
[10:33:04] <A-L-P-H-A> hey Jymmm.
[10:36:30] <Jymmm> yo
[10:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> wuzzup? slept yet?
[10:36:48] <Jymmm> 3am and just woke up
[10:36:54] <Jymmm> for no reason
[10:36:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I've been up for about 6.5hrs
[10:37:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: want to make something instead?
[10:37:19] <Jymmm> ?
[10:37:45] <A-L-P-H-A> just for kicks... glue a few inches of MDF together... and see if you can machine something similar like this... [sec]
[10:38:07] <A-L-P-H-A> why the hell is firefox sooo unresponsive.
[10:38:12] <A-L-P-H-A> seems like the whole system is lagging
[10:38:16] <A-L-P-H-A> ubuntu too
[10:38:48] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Past%20Machining%20Projects/2004-03-04_Cube_1.5%5E3/
[10:39:02] <A-L-P-H-A> the trick is the gluing and clamping.
[10:47:23] <anonimasu> hm
[10:47:36] <anonimasu> I'd rather machine it in alu :)
[10:47:54] <Jymmm> anonimasu: wus, use gold!
[10:48:22] <anonimasu> lol
[10:48:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, then it'll be.... "Pimp My Mill"
[10:49:00] <Jymmm> Yeah, then it'll be.... "Pimp My Lathe"
[10:49:05] <Jymmm> bling bling and all that
[10:50:32] <anonimasu> heh
[10:53:33] <A-L-P-H-A> make it, and paint it gold
[10:53:54] <anonimasu> plate it ;)
[10:55:33] <Jymmm> solid 24K
[10:55:59] <A-L-P-H-A> it'd be hard to clamp... it'd be squished in the vise.
[10:57:14] <anonimasu> yep
[10:58:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder how much it would cost to make for a 3" cube
[11:00:10] <A-L-P-H-A> ack. $66/ft online. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1122&step=4&showunits=inches
[11:00:34] <anonimasu> heh
[11:00:43] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=12866&step=4&showunits=inches ouch
[11:00:59] <anonimasu> insane
[11:01:08] <anonimasu> I pay less then half..
[11:01:33] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[11:01:37] <anonimasu> :D
[11:01:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I had a local supplier.
[11:02:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I got some 2" stock kicking around.
[11:02:11] <A-L-P-H-A> ready to be machined too.
[11:02:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll try it out, after I'm happy with my mill... lathe is pretty simple as well.
[11:02:27] <anonimasu> I've got 25x15 stock :)
[11:02:33] <A-L-P-H-A> you want CUBES.
[11:03:03] <anonimasu> I've used up all square material
[11:03:26] <anonimasu> :(
[11:03:59] <A-L-P-H-A> go buy more
[11:04:12] <anonimasu> I need to order 2.5 meter or whatever they come in
[11:04:41] <anonimasu> cutting it up doubles the cost :)
[11:05:40] <Jymmm> anonimasu save up those aluminum cans and forge your own
[11:06:07] <A-L-P-H-A> my stuff comes in 3,6,8,12,20... ft. depends on what it is.
[12:18:06] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I'd rather not play with that much fire
[12:22:04] <skunkworks> one of these days I should finish this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/woodcube.jpg
[12:22:32] <skunkworks> or something similar
[12:22:54] <alex_joni> A psychiatrist was conducting a group therapy session with four young mothers and their small children. . . "You all have obsessions ", he observed. To the first mother, he said, "You are obsessed with eating. You've even named your daughter Candy." He turned to the second Mom. "Your obsession is with money. Again, it manifests itself in your child's name, Penny. "He turns to the third Mom. "Your obsession is alcohol. This too manifests itself in your child's
[12:24:13] <A-L-P-H-A> alcohol. This too manifests itself in your child's"....?
[12:24:16] <A-L-P-H-A> didn't get the rest
[12:24:31] <alex_joni> name, Brandy." At this point, the fourth mother gets
[12:24:31] <alex_joni> up, takes her little boy by the hand and whispers, "Come on,
[12:24:31] <alex_joni> Dick, we're leaving!"
[12:26:35] <anonimasu> lol
[12:51:10] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj: Bo^Dick
[12:51:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm logging. I don't understand 'Bo^Dick', A-L-P-H-A. Try /msg logger_aj help
[12:51:13] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj: Bookmark
[12:51:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm feeling lazy .. but here's the log anyways:
[12:52:36] <skunkworks> alex_joni: 50v into the h-bridge. Just pulsing the opto's made the motor spin - woo hoo. :)
[12:52:54] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: ? fast?
[12:52:57] <A-L-P-H-A> with any torque?
[12:53:06] <A-L-P-H-A> how big are these servos?
[12:53:49] <alex_joni> skunkworks: cool :)
[12:53:50] <skunkworks> nothing big yet. this was a servo that was around 4 inches in diameter and 5 inches long... No info on it
[12:54:05] <A-L-P-H-A> ok
[12:54:05] <alex_joni> skunkworks: sounds like a few hundred watts
[12:54:29] <alex_joni> maybe 1kW even if it's fairly new
[12:54:53] <skunkworks> Doubt it :) - ebay purchase - cheap
[12:55:48] <skunkworks> only issue was a solder bridge on the input side of the opto. Made it not work at all. :)
[12:56:17] <A-L-P-H-A> well... don't make solder bridges. :D
[12:56:27] <skunkworks> Where do people buy thier circuit board stock?
[12:56:40] <skunkworks> * skunkworks has never actually bought real circuit board
[12:56:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I have several places.
[12:56:54] <skunkworks> only the cheap stuff from radio shack
[12:57:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I have 3 electronic suppliers near me... www.e-sonic.com, www.sayal.com, daiwa [they don't have an online store], and for single sided data only boards, I have something like 6 sq ft of that stuff.
[12:57:35] <A-L-P-H-A> err.. maybe 10 sq ft.
[12:57:55] <skunkworks> I would need double sided.
[13:00:33] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: www.digikey.com www.mouser.com at good for American'ts.
[13:00:48] <A-L-P-H-A> reasonable shipping rates as well
[13:11:41] <skunkworks> Thanks
[13:22:27] <skunkworks> Looks like the board I used was 1oz I need thicker :)
[13:26:21] <A-L-P-H-A> 2oz is about as thick as you can get.
[13:26:44] <A-L-P-H-A> usually it's 0.5, 1, 1.5, and 2. 1 being the most common.
[13:28:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I just called about the T-link belting stuff... WOW... $11.19/ft from my normal supplier (from another manufacturer)... and it's on sale at this retail store for $7.50/ft.
[13:28:26] <skunkworks> yikes
[13:36:10] <skunkworks> what does 1/16 - 1/32 - 1/64 mean? is it 1oz - ?
[13:36:26] <jepler> skunkworks: that refers to the thickness of the fiberglass, not the copper
[13:36:43] <skunkworks> duh
[13:36:45] <skunkworks> thanks
[13:41:34] <A-L-P-H-A> this isn't good.
[13:41:44] <A-L-P-H-A> dishwasher is drawing a lot of power in the house.
[13:41:51] <A-L-P-H-A> causing my lights in my room to flicker.
[13:41:53] <A-L-P-H-A> whacked.
[13:45:15] <jepler> skunkworks: did you find this page of the mouser catalog? http://www.mouser.com/catalog/627/1780.pdf cradek and I use the 4x6 1oz single-sided boards
[13:46:06] <skunkworks> oh - 18X18 40z from digikey is 84 dollars :)
[13:46:20] <skunkworks> jepler: just got there. Was trying mouser first
[13:46:34] <skunkworks> 4-oz
[13:47:50] <skunkworks> more power uhh uhh uhh
[13:49:08] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: how many amps are you running??
[13:49:44] <skunkworks> 20 - peaking at 40 smoking at 44
[13:49:55] <skunkworks> if all goes well
[13:50:44] <Stumpy> Stumpy is now known as dastumster
[13:51:25] <ejholmgren> maybe you shouldn't have cnc'ed the dishwasher and put 1000oz steppers in it?
[13:51:35] <dastumster> th version inquiery is to ascertain no bottlers come with me?
[13:51:47] <skunkworks> hmmmmm cnc'ed dishwasher. hmmmmmm
[13:52:13] <A-L-P-H-A> dastumster: ?
[13:52:29] <A-L-P-H-A> you want someone to come drink with you?
[13:53:34] <dastumster> naw, when I conencted, I got a ctcp version query
[13:54:42] <cradek> irc servers often want to know what irc programs people are using to connect to them
[13:54:51] <dastumster> u can ask
[13:54:52] <dastumster> lol
[13:54:56] <dastumster> (Kernel):[Linux 2.6.17-1.2142_FC4smp i686] (Uptime):[18:20] (Load):[0.07] (CPUCount):[2] (Model):[Pentium III (Katmai)] (Clock):[499.951MHz] (Cache):[1024 KB] (Bogomips):[1001.75] (Mem):[147/4154M 14[43||||||||||14]] (Total Space):[104.4G] (Processes):[101]
[13:54:58] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/9643/TraceWidth.htm
[13:55:18] <cradek> dastumster: not me, the irc server. none of us here run the irc server.
[13:55:23] <skunkworks> A-L-P-H-A: cool thanks
[13:55:25] <dastumster> ahhh
[13:55:55] <dastumster> thats right i read yesterday, they are not linked, they are hosted
[13:56:03] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: depends on how hot you want that board to get...
[13:56:15] <cradek> emc is one of many projects that uses freenode for irc
[13:56:32] <A-L-P-H-A> you may want to think about 14 AWG directly to the transistors.
[13:57:28] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder if that kiwi guy got the liveCD working.
[13:58:10] <dastumster> the livecd just runs the os from the cd
[13:58:24] <dastumster> that would be ..."weird"
[13:59:25] <dastumster> I wouldnt be able to tinker or make any personal adjustments. My control phsychosis would go wacko
[13:59:51] <A-L-P-H-A> okay. it's official. you're odd.
[14:00:09] <dastumster> oooh, I fit in then
[14:00:11] <dastumster> osm
[14:36:00] <skunkworks> cradek: Those cutters are the best. (thinkandtinker).
[14:44:20] <skunkworks> cradek: in the nist lathe setup - you have 3 axis's setup - but are only using 2 correct?
[14:44:29] <skunkworks> (looking at the hal file.)
[14:46:04] <jepler> skunkworks: because they're called X and Z, you have to have a dummy axis 1 if you want trivial kinematics to work
[14:46:08] <jepler> er, a dummy joint 1
[14:46:10] <jepler> but it's called axis
[14:46:44] <skunkworks> ok.
[14:46:46] <SWPadnos> they should be R (or D) and Z
[14:46:56] <SWPadnos> cylindrical coordinates
[14:47:47] <jepler> SWPadnos: but there's not an R or D axis in rs274ngc
[14:48:11] <SWPadnos> well, there is that
[14:48:24] <SWPadnos> but it *should* be R and Z ;)
[14:48:41] <jepler> it is, but R is spelled X.
[14:48:48] <SWPadnos> oh, I see ;)
[14:51:39] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/Submakefile:
[14:51:39] <CIA-8> build .comp files from hal/drivers unless running with --enable-simulator
[14:51:39] <CIA-8> build the manpages even with --enable-simulator
[14:59:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: (log message trimmed)
[14:59:34] <CIA-8> markup fixes for manpages: Don't use - for dashes in item names, this gives
[14:59:34] <CIA-8> bad formatting in the HTML.
[14:59:34] <CIA-8> If the docstring for the component is more than one line, then put all but the
[14:59:34] <CIA-8> first line in the SYNOPSIS section, replacing the default lines. This allows
[14:59:36] <CIA-8> a driver to document that it uses io= and not count=
[14:59:37] <CIA-8> Don't document the module parameter 'count=' if option count_function is
[15:00:15] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: new driver for the digital I/O pins of the PC serial port
[15:04:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: build manpages for driver comps
[15:06:02] <jepler> now somebody needs to test serport
[15:06:58] <cradek> I'd like to try to make a jogwheel with axis-selector using one of those mechanical encoders
[15:07:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: actually there are axes called R,P,W in the interp
[15:08:06] <SWPadnos> I also saw those in the INI files, but they're different
[15:08:12] <alex_joni> right
[15:08:15] <SWPadnos> Radius, not Roll
[15:08:26] <SWPadnos> ah well, I can't have everything
[15:09:11] <alex_joni> R,P,W are actually for Roll, Pitch, Yaw afaik
[15:09:16] <SWPadnos> right
[15:09:17] <alex_joni> but I'm not sure if that even works
[15:09:39] <alex_joni> it's "supposed" to work.. but who cares enough to check?
[15:09:46] <SWPadnos> I was commenting that the actual motion for a lathe is [R]adius (or diameter) and Z, like cylindrical coordinates
[15:10:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: well.. a lot of movements are like something else :)
[15:10:17] <SWPadnos> I don't think so, since P is something completely different already ;)
[15:10:18] <jepler> alex_joni: I never saw anything in the NIST rs274ngc documentation that implied RPW coordinates could be specified
[15:10:21] <alex_joni> and they still use carthesian coordinates
[15:10:38] <jepler> the R-format arc and the use of P- for dwell times in canned cycles kinda make me think it can't work
[15:10:46] <alex_joni> jepler: I can double that oppinion, yet the sim-hexapod in emc2 starts just nicely
[15:10:52] <SWPadnos> jepler, I never sae that either, so it is curious as to why the INI files all say AXES= X Y Z R P W
[15:10:57] <cradek> jepler: either RPW used to work long ago, or people have always wanted it, since it's in the sample inis
[15:11:00] <SWPadnos> s/sae/saw/
[15:11:32] <cradek> there's some very old information about ngc online (pre-emc even) and I haven't seen any mention of RPW
[15:12:03] <cradek> UVW is more likely to be possible
[15:12:37] <jepler> &Interp::read_t, // reads t or ASCII 0x74
[15:12:37] <jepler> 0, 0, 0,
[15:12:37] <jepler> &Interp::read_x, // reads x or ASCII 0x78
[15:12:43] <jepler> right now the letters UVW are not accepted at all
[15:12:45] <SWPadnos> yes, I think UVW are reserved for axes parallel to XYZ
[15:13:05] <cradek> I mean 'be possible with appropriate hacking'
[15:13:08] <cradek> meant
[15:13:40] <skunkworks> boy - I need more exposure to hal/
[15:13:58] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: there is another possibility ;)
[15:14:12] <alex_joni> the AXES in the TRAJ section is only for documentation purposes
[15:14:16] <SWPadnos> Gcode++ ?
[15:14:26] <skunkworks> turbo gcode
[15:14:30] <SWPadnos> right, not part of the language spec
[15:14:38] <cradek> for 2.1 we should take *everything* out of the inis that is not necessary
[15:14:40] <alex_joni> so it doesn't really matter if it's X Y Z R P W or H I J K F G 2
[15:14:52] <alex_joni> cradek: actually you can run with an almost empty ini
[15:14:54] <jepler> gcode PRO?
[15:14:54] <cradek> alex has done much of that work already
[15:15:14] <alex_joni> cradek: but you'll end up using the defaults compiled in
[15:15:18] <alex_joni> mm, degree, etc.
[15:15:52] <alex_joni> at least regarding ini_axis && co, not the hal [AXIS_1]MAX_VELOCITY ;)
[15:16:39] <SWPadnos> iGcode
[15:16:50] <SWPadnos> pod
[15:17:14] <alex_joni> iCode
[15:17:31] <SWPadnos> iwanttobarfatallthei-stuff
[15:17:31] <cradek> #gcode=[#gcode+1]
[15:17:40] <SWPadnos> like C++
[15:17:43] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos ducks
[15:17:45] <cradek> not very catchy
[15:17:58] <SWPadnos> in the TK mindset, incr Gcode
[15:18:06] <alex_joni> gcode#
[15:18:08] <SWPadnos> for C, Gcode++
[15:18:16] <alex_joni> gcode.net ?
[15:18:20] <alex_joni> ROFL
[15:18:27] <jepler> jcode? GVM?
[15:18:34] <SWPadnos> no, we want the impression that it's good ;)
[15:18:34] <jepler> CNC#
[15:18:42] <alex_joni> GRE
[15:18:46] <SWPadnos> g-whiz-code
[15:18:48] <jepler> GOBOL
[15:18:58] <SWPadnos> GASIC
[15:19:02] <jepler> ooh GASIC
[15:19:13] <skunkworks> gwgcode
[15:19:13] <cradek> intergal
[15:19:17] <alex_joni> gascal?
[15:19:17] <skunkworks> visual gcode
[15:19:22] <SWPadnos> doofus code
[15:19:29] <SWPadnos> oops
[15:19:36] <skunkworks> gcode for applications
[15:19:50] <cradek> flagship enterprise gcode
[15:19:55] <SWPadnos> "programming machining centers for real idiots, not just dfummies
[15:20:00] <SWPadnos> dummies"
[15:20:15] <alex_joni> gcode vista :P
[15:20:16] <jepler> ESTOP (we can figure out what it stands for later)
[15:20:25] <SWPadnos> ECUTITOUT
[15:20:33] <SWPadnos> EPLEASESTOP
[15:20:39] <alex_joni> ENOHARMDONE
[15:20:42] <SWPadnos> EEHOUGHALREADY
[15:20:44] <jepler> EAGAIN
[15:20:52] <SWPadnos> err - EENOUGHALREADY
[15:21:06] <alex_joni> that's -EENOUGHALREADY
[15:21:10] <SWPadnos> Gspotcode
[15:21:14] <dastumster> * dastumster is at ESTOP
[15:21:23] <alex_joni> Gstumster
[15:21:42] <SWPadnos> gcode->next
[15:23:33] <skunkworks> G-enigma
[15:24:15] <alex_joni> eniGma
[15:24:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/out8.comp: bugfix: release right I/O address. not a constructable component
[15:25:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: updates
[15:31:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: use correct name when registering I/O ports
[15:44:08] <dastumster> ooh
[15:45:23] <dastumster> * dastumster notes that sys stats on irc freenode is considered rudeness, and will in the future comply, I hadnt seen this be4
[15:55:49] <alex_joni> huh.. just saw some pics of the grand canyon skywalk
[15:55:54] <alex_joni> interesting :D
[15:57:20] <alex_joni> http://nick.gully.org/see/skywalk.jpg
[15:57:33] <alex_joni> http://www.thegreenhead.com/watercooler/images/grand_canyon_skywalk-4.jpg
[16:00:22] <alex_joni> http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/05/11/grand.canyon.skywalk/index.html?section=cnn_tech
[16:01:51] <gkamysz> Hello. EMC beginner here. I'm going through the setup of EMC. I understand the manual for the most part. I do have a question though that doesn't seem obvious to me. Can I set up EMC to drive steppers open loop? My mill is setup with Gecko drives and I'd like to run EMC until I can get it reconfigured. Also is there a way to run Geckos and feedback? The manual makes me think neither of the above is possible.
[16:02:42] <alex_joni> you can easily drive geckos by default
[16:03:00] <alex_joni> either G201 (stepper) or G320, G340 (DC)
[16:03:20] <alex_joni> this way EMC will send out Step/Dir pulses to control the system open loop
[16:03:37] <gkamysz> OK. Is any one of the sample INI set up for it?
[16:03:44] <alex_joni> in the case of G320/G340 there is an additional loop between the motor controller, the motor and the encoder
[16:03:51] <alex_joni> but EMC doesn't know anything about that
[16:04:12] <alex_joni> gkamysz: for Step/Dir output you want the stepper/stepper_inch.ini or stepper/stepper_mm.ini
[16:04:18] <alex_joni> depending on your preferences :)
[16:05:53] <gkamysz> Right, I'm using G320. Metric for me:). Well that's easier than I thought. I could have sworn I read it in the manual and then i couldn't find it.
[16:06:11] <alex_joni> gkamysz: just ask of there are additional problems :)
[16:07:06] <gkamysz> Thanks! this is my setup if you're interested.
[16:07:08] <gkamysz> http://www.edfinfo.com/x/temp/other.html
[16:10:18] <alex_joni> gkamysz: nice
[16:36:52] <anonimasu> hm
[16:36:56] <anonimasu> time to try my spindle :)
[16:37:50] <skunkworks> good luck :)
[16:37:55] <anonimasu> thanks
[16:38:05] <anonimasu> i just need to machine a gear
[16:38:05] <anonimasu> :)
[16:39:15] <anonimasu> I've got the table mounted too
[16:43:19] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:46:41] <gkamysz> I'm looking at steppermm.ini ...... if I have .002mm per step should the input scale be set to 500 0?
[16:47:48] <skunkworks> gkamysz: that would be 500 steps per mm - so yes.
[16:49:35] <gkamysz> OK. Time to look at the parport pinout. Port pinout is defined in HAL?
[16:54:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:01:45] <gkamysz> If I installed from the EMC2 Live CD is everything I need to run already setup? Realtime and such?
[17:03:37] <skunkworks> yes
[17:05:27] <ejholmgren> yep
[17:06:40] <gkamysz> OK. I'm trying to figure out how to edit HAL?
[17:10:55] <skunkworks> have you copied the sample configs to your home directory?
[17:11:01] <SWPadnos> there are some instructions on the wiki: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[17:11:15] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: write correct address for outputs. reorder pins so that the documentation shows up in a nicer order
[17:11:54] <skunkworks> gkamysz: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[17:12:34] <gkamysz> Thanks, I'll read up on those.
[17:12:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[17:30:16] <gkamysz> OK I got the files copied so I can edit. As long as I choose the machine from my home folder the associated HAL and INI are read?
[17:33:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:46:37] <ejholmgren> if I already have a nice lambda 24v 16a power supply
[17:46:59] <ejholmgren> and want to bump it up to 29v
[17:47:19] <ejholmgren> can I hook a 5v ps of similar amperage in series?
[17:49:23] <jepler> ejholmgren: if the GNDs of the two power supplies are isolated, I think the answer is yes. If they're not isolated, you will effectively be shorting 5V or 24V to GND. I've never done this myself.
[17:57:25] <ejholmgren> will the final amperage be the lower of the two?
[17:58:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ejholmgren: yeah
[17:59:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it sounds open to bad stuff happening though
[17:59:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if say the outer casing of the PSU is grounded and they touch each other for example
[18:05:17] <dastumster> be a lot safer to simply use 29v ps
[18:06:55] <dastumster> if a do a series or para build, I use that plastic stuff, comes in a paint can, to cover the components
[18:07:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/serport.comp: support TX as a digital output
[18:11:10] <dastumster> * dastumster wishes I could remember what the stuff was called
[18:11:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> pcb varnish?
[18:11:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I wouldn't trust that as insulation
[18:12:51] <dastumster> no, thats for circuit boards, this is like a rubber almost, I even use it to dip handles of tools that arent shielded
[18:12:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if you need insulation kapton film or fiberglass sheets (the type with weave and plastic) is good
[18:13:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh
[18:13:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how thick a coat?
[18:13:21] <dastumster> about an 1/8"
[18:13:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hey that's quite a bit
[18:13:45] <dastumster> for ps, wouldnt need any more then 1/32
[18:13:59] <dastumster> but the hand tools wear a lot
[18:14:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Personally I wouldn't trust that for insulation, as it would be easy to puncture (think a needle-like peice of metal)
[18:15:12] <dastumster> it doesnt puncture as easily as heatshrink wrap
[18:15:41] <dastumster> an thats pretty durable, I dont have the pressure test specs nemore
[18:16:28] <dastumster> but when I ran the turbine generator shop on the ship, I needed them to get authorization for usage from Navseaeng
[18:20:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and that rubberised surface was accepted?
[18:23:00] <gkamysz> Thanks for the info earlier. I'll be back tonight or tomorrow to let you know how it went.
[18:28:29] <dastumster> * dastumster nods
[18:28:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice
[18:29:19] <dastumster> when they did the next eng opee, they checked it pretty thourghly
[18:29:56] <dastumster> opee = operation propulsion engineering examination
[18:30:11] <dastumster> stick with opee
[18:30:12] <dastumster> lol
[18:38:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what's the surface like? generic rubberised surface?
[18:44:49] <dastumster> basically feels like rubber, yes
[18:45:26] <dastumster> depending on how much is applied, gives it a "spongy" feeling with more
[18:47:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what is it called? seems like it would be useful for quite a lot of stuff
[19:02:07] <dastumster> thats just it, I do not remember, it was awesome stuff
[20:05:42] <anonimasu> my spindle works
[20:05:47] <anonimasu> :)
[20:06:33] <bill20r3> huzzah
[20:06:40] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... wonder how much analog pressure switches are...
[20:06:50] <anonimasu> how much pressure do you need?
[20:06:55] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: finger.
[20:07:03] <A-L-P-H-A> be kind of neat for a job wheel.
[20:07:06] <anonimasu> ah..
[20:07:37] <A-L-P-H-A> 2 butons for each axis... [+ -] and a pressure switch to move how fast... jog.
[20:07:45] <A-L-P-H-A> tap it if you want to move very very little.
[20:07:51] <anonimasu> sec..
[20:08:02] <anonimasu> you can buy whole strips..
[20:08:10] <A-L-P-H-A> strips?
[20:08:17] <anonimasu> with 4 buttons
[20:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> tape reels?
[20:08:21] <cradek> sounds like you want a laptop nipple
[20:08:22] <anonimasu> no
[20:08:26] <cradek> (I hate those things)
[20:08:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I love those laptop nipples...
[20:08:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't have to move my hand from the KB.
[20:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[20:11:29] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: im searching
[20:13:48] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: cant find it now
[20:13:54] <anonimasu> I have a link at work
[20:15:24] <anonimasu> http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?dok=124385.htm
[20:15:28] <anonimasu> one alternative
[20:28:34] <SWPadnos> hey Les - long time no see
[20:28:42] <les_w> hi swp
[20:28:47] <les_w> just busy
[20:28:54] <les_w> fall is a busy time
[20:28:54] <SWPadnos> lucky you
[20:29:29] <dastumster> lol
[20:29:34] <les_w> well, lots of work, incorporation, golf course, and big house remodel
[20:30:01] <SWPadnos> I've heard that golf courses can take up long periods of time ;)
[20:30:10] <les_w> doing 1925 exact arts and crafts decor
[20:30:23] <les_w> planted $700 of seed for the course
[20:30:54] <les_w> and then work....
[20:31:29] <les_w> kinda bummed today because I am having to pay $1900 per run for non linear FEM
[20:31:40] <les_w> seems high
[20:31:47] <les_w> but I must have it
[20:31:56] <A-L-P-H-A> FEM?
[20:32:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Non linear FEM? A curvy female?
[20:32:26] <les_w> dynamic Finite element analysis with eigenvalues
[20:32:34] <les_w> nastran
[20:33:01] <SWPadnos> that's where you pay loads of money for software that runs on hardware you also can't afford, right?
[20:33:23] <les_w> betcha they are running on a linux pc....
[20:33:34] <anonimasu> hey les
[20:33:40] <SWPadnos> or a cluster, depending on how long it takes to get results back
[20:33:40] <les_w> hi anon
[20:33:48] <les_w> yeah
[20:33:58] <Bo^Dick> maybe someone of you could help me
[20:34:06] <SWPadnos> buy the geckos!!!
[20:34:11] <skunkworks> :)
[20:34:11] <les_w> haha
[20:34:12] <SWPadnos> sorry - with what? ;)
[20:34:53] <Bo^Dick> i want to learn electronics as well
[20:35:14] <dastumster> as well as what?
[20:35:28] <Bo^Dick> anyway, i'm struggling with "figure 9" on page 7, http://www.nsc.res.in/~elab/phoenix/hardware/Datasheets/DAC0800.pdf
[20:37:07] <dastumster> Bo^Dick: enjoy; http://www.faqs.org/docs/electric/
[20:38:53] <Bo^Dick> how is one supposed to know how the remaining pins should be connected in that figure?
[20:39:30] <SWPadnos> that figure only shows a sample application, and isn't intended to be a schematic
[20:39:58] <Bo^Dick> but i want to build that
[20:40:05] <Bo^Dick> what am i supposed to do?
[20:40:17] <SWPadnos> do you know how op-amps work?
[20:40:27] <Bo^Dick> well rather
[20:40:30] <SWPadnos> (as in, how to use them, not necessarily what goes on inside)
[20:40:47] <Bo^Dick> well that isn't the issue really
[20:40:53] <jepler> my first guess would be "as shown on page 1 figure 1"
[20:41:17] <SWPadnos> right, then add in the extra stuff from figure 9, and you have a high current output
[20:41:45] <Bo^Dick> that's a good guess but there were some problems when the supply voltage was single only
[20:42:06] <ejholmgren> is it possible to run two steppers off of one controller?
[20:42:22] <ejholmgren> or do you need to gang them together in the program and hook them up separately?
[20:42:23] <SWPadnos> ejholmgren, do you mean one controller, or one driver?
[20:42:28] <ejholmgren> one driver
[20:42:33] <SWPadnos> it's not recommended
[20:42:49] <SWPadnos> and probably doesn't work how you'd want anyway
[20:43:10] <ejholmgren> ie. horrible idea for a dual drive axis?
[20:43:26] <SWPadnos> consider that at power-on, the motors will be in semi-random positions - when the drive energizes one coil or the other, the two motors may move in different directions
[20:43:41] <SWPadnos> then they'll run in parallel, but out of step with each other
[20:43:49] <ejholmgren> ok
[20:44:17] <SWPadnos> (I'm a bit of a purist, so I think it's a bad plan. it may well work in some circumstances, but I'm not about to recommend it)
[20:45:07] <Bo^Dick> maybe the application still requires bipolar voltage supply?
[20:45:16] <Bo^Dick> that isn't mentioned
[20:45:17] <SWPadnos> do you need bipolar output?
[20:45:38] <Bo^Dick> no
[20:46:08] <SWPadnos> then why use (what looks like) a bipolar current-mode DAC?
[20:46:52] <Bo^Dick> it was cheap
[20:47:04] <Bo^Dick> a good DAC could be at least 6 times more expensive
[20:47:19] <Bo^Dick> so i chose the least fancy one
[20:48:25] <ejholmgren> SWP: at 1/8th steps on a hobby machine, would it pose a problem?
[20:49:05] <SWPadnos> dunno - I go the other way (I have a Bridgeport in my garage :) )
[20:49:44] <Bo^Dick> "positive low impedance output operation", that's what the sheet says
[20:50:00] <Bo^Dick> how is that supposed to be interpreted
[20:50:38] <Bo^Dick> lets say you would've bought the DAC0800 because it was cheap
[20:51:07] <Bo^Dick> how would you have done in order to obtain a "positive low impedance output operation" performance?
[20:51:33] <Bo^Dick> if i'm asking too many questions and if they're too advanced please let me know
[20:51:58] <SWPadnos> what are you trying to get out of the DAC?
[20:52:10] <SWPadnos> voltage reference, current ...
[20:52:14] <SWPadnos> 0-10V
[20:52:18] <SWPadnos> 4-20 mA
[20:52:23] <Bo^Dick> that sounds good
[20:52:33] <SWPadnos> that's an either-or type of question
[20:52:49] <Bo^Dick> 0-10V then
[20:53:17] <K4ts> hi
[20:53:36] <Bo^Dick> i've got no whatsoever intrest in having it bipolar i.e. having the voltage between -10V to 10V
[20:53:40] <K4ts> hi les_w
[20:54:49] <Bo^Dick> the question is, would you have done like i did, looked at "figure 9" that says "positive low impedance output operation" and without success hooking it up to find the devastating fact that the output is zero all the time
[20:55:11] <SWPadnos> did you hook up power to the op-amp?
[20:55:47] <Bo^Dick> yeah, all "V-" to ground and all "V+" to the positive powersupply on both the op and DAC
[20:56:21] <Bo^Dick> i strongly suspect that there is something with the DAC rather than the op
[20:56:36] <SWPadnos> ok. did you hook up the reference resistors as they show in figure 3 (page 6)?
[20:56:56] <SWPadnos> apparently, you need a positive and a negative reference current
[20:57:01] <Bo^Dick> yepp
[20:57:19] <Bo^Dick> but the application said "positive low impedance output operation"
[20:57:33] <Bo^Dick> doesn't that imply that its a unipolar application?
[20:57:59] <SWPadnos> the positive or negative in that description refers to the operation of the op-amp as a positive or an inverting amplifire, I think
[20:58:06] <SWPadnos> amplifier
[20:58:39] <Bo^Dick> ok, so my interpretation has been totally misunderstanding
[20:59:02] <Bo^Dick> this DAC can't run on a single powersupply without center-tap
[20:59:20] <SWPadnos> dunno. it looks like it needs to be bipolar, but I don't know
[20:59:52] <Bo^Dick> why doesn't it say so in the introduction in the datasheet
[20:59:52] <SWPadnos> these are the kinds of things to look at before deciding what to buy based on price
[21:00:22] <SWPadnos> it does say that the absolute maximum ratings are +- 18V or 36V total for (V+ - V-)
[21:01:36] <SWPadnos> On page 1, under "Features" : Wide power supply range: +- 4.5V to +- 18V
[21:01:53] <SWPadnos> they don't mention 0-anything
[21:02:17] <Bo^Dick> you must agree that it's hard to fetch this information
[21:02:42] <SWPadnos> not really. you shouold search for unipolar or single supply DACs when trying to find the right part
[21:03:04] <Bo^Dick> so it's rather standard that a DAC can't be run from 0-anything
[21:03:30] <Bo^Dick> the unipolar ones are then considered "special" devices
[21:03:37] <SWPadnos> they're just different
[21:03:58] <Bo^Dick> i must admit that i didn't expect this situation
[21:04:14] <K`zan> Morning folks
[21:04:24] <SWPadnos> hiya
[21:05:04] <Bo^Dick> SWPadnos: i want to thank you for all help buddy
[21:05:29] <SWPadnos> no problem. I know it can be a pain when you're learning about this stuff
[21:05:35] <SWPadnos> (and there's a lot to learn, unfortunately)
[21:33:51] <K`zan> Got synergy installed, now to figure it out :-).
[21:34:06] <K`zan> Don't have to run something under windoz, how NICE!
[21:35:04] <anonimasu> K`zan: how did you get ahold of it?
[21:35:20] <alex_joni> K`zan: got word from synergy?
[21:35:30] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:35:32] <jepler> * jepler notices that emc2 CVS + axis have been running (idling) for a week straight on this machine
[21:35:35] <SWPadnos> you can download it from their site
[21:35:36] <K`zan> Thanks to some kind folks here, I went and asked and was granted a beta test licese :-)
[21:35:42] <SWPadnos> it's pricing that seems hard to find
[21:35:49] <jepler> ... and I was able to step from right where I'd paused the program
[21:36:12] <alex_joni> jepler: sounds great
[21:36:13] <K`zan> You have to ask and they do actually have a good reason for that.
[21:36:28] <alex_joni> K`zan: glad it helped :)
[21:36:29] <K`zan> It is less expensive than a lot of things out there.
[21:36:30] <SWPadnos> oh - maybe I only saw the Windows version there for download
[21:36:42] <K`zan> alex_joni: Yes, thanks, I owe you one :-).
[21:36:47] <alex_joni> K`zan: np
[21:37:04] <alex_joni> I think I got a few licenses from them
[21:37:08] <alex_joni> but I misplaced them :D
[21:37:11] <K`zan> Much appreciated.
[21:37:21] <alex_joni> e.g. the software didn't recognize them after a while
[21:37:24] <K`zan> alex_joni: Write Bob, I am sure he will help.
[21:37:30] <alex_joni> yeah, probably..
[21:37:37] <K`zan> Very VERY reasonably guy :-).
[21:37:38] <alex_joni> maybe when I'll have some use for it :)
[21:37:45] <SWPadnos> he used to be on IRC quite a bit
[21:37:51] <alex_joni> K`zan: like I said.. he used to hang around here a lot
[21:38:13] <K`zan> While I am thrashing on the actual CNCing, it will give me something to do and provide some encouragement :-).
[21:38:28] <K`zan> I gave you folks a lot of credit, as is richly deserved :-).
[21:38:51] <K`zan> As a matter of fact, I gave you all the credit for me writing :).
[21:39:54] <alex_joni> guess it gets passed on :)
[21:40:13] <K`zan> Might end up as a sale for them :-), works out well.
[21:40:27] <K`zan> Better to troll the bait and not I guess.
[21:40:31] <K`zan> and / than
[21:40:52] <anonimasu> K`zan: what did I tell you?=
[21:40:54] <anonimasu> :
[21:40:55] <anonimasu> :)
[21:40:57] <anonimasu> weber's nice
[21:41:09] <K`zan> Yep, it worked, but only because of you folks :-).
[21:41:37] <K`zan> Going to have to sit down and go to work on it. FWIW, the debian .tgz works fine under Gentoo.
[21:41:39] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[21:41:41] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:41:44] <K`zan> :-)
[21:41:54] <anonimasu> I might have to demo it.. I need a cad/cam system for work
[21:43:07] <K`zan> FOOOOOODD :-).
[21:43:25] <K`zan> I'll be glad when I have a clue about it :).
[21:47:35] <anonimasu> :D
[21:48:06] <alex_joni> a clue about food?
[21:48:18] <anonimasu> hm
[21:49:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/halrun.in:
[21:49:44] <CIA-8> if no arguments are given, then assume -kf
[21:49:44] <CIA-8> if one argument is given, and it's a .hal file, then add -f
[21:50:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm - is halrun meant to be used from the command line (or only from scripts)?
[21:52:43] <SWPadnos> nevermind (it helps to actually look at the file :) )
[21:59:27] <alex_joni> off to bed.. good night all
[22:12:57] <jepler> cradek: hmph -- serport doesn't work on the machine I've been running the lathe on
[22:13:03] <jepler> the -ins always read TRUE
[22:13:29] <SWPadnos> are you twiddling them between +12V and -12V?
[22:13:58] <jepler> SWPadnos: I connected one of the output pins to one of the input pins with a jumper, and toggled the output pin
[22:14:09] <jepler> both pins are on the serial port, so the voltages should be appropriate
[22:14:13] <SWPadnos> did you see that it changes state (with a multimeter)?
[22:14:17] <SWPadnos> or scope
[22:14:22] <jepler> no, I haven't... that's what i'm abuot to do
[22:14:25] <jepler> but I wanted to whine first
[22:14:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[22:14:34] <SWPadnos> :_)
[22:14:35] <SWPadnos> :)
[22:14:49] <SWPadnos> like me with my stupid^H^H^H^H^H^Hthoughtful questions
[22:16:15] <A-L-P-H-A> casters are now under my small filing cabinet... so... I got a rolly table + filing cabinet.
[22:16:23] <A-L-P-H-A> just needs to be painted to something nice.
[22:16:30] <A-L-P-H-A> like perhaps black
[22:16:42] <A-L-P-H-A> flat black enamel would be nice.
[22:16:54] <A-L-P-H-A> if finger printers wheren't an issue.
[22:20:43] <A-L-P-H-A> prints
[22:21:38] <jepler> compared to shield ground, the pins swing from about 0V to 10V
[22:21:43] <jepler> that doesn't seem like proper serial voltages to me
[22:22:26] <SWPadnos> nope
[22:22:31] <SWPadnos> missing a negative, I'd say
[22:23:38] <jepler> hm
[22:23:43] <jepler> I moved my clip again and now I get +10 and -10
[22:23:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[22:27:14] <jepler> and now one of my input pins is toggling
[22:27:22] <jepler> I must have had a clip touching the wrong thing before...
[22:28:33] <SWPadnos> strange that the clip would act like a diode
[22:29:43] <A-L-P-H-A> silver-xp them in icewm really looks like windows xp's silver theme.
[22:29:47] <A-L-P-H-A> quick too.
[22:29:48] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[22:30:54] <jepler> SWPadnos: I'm happy to forget all about it, rather than try to figure that out
[22:31:04] <SWPadnos> heh - I agree
[22:31:33] <SWPadnos> http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS7435528984.html
[22:31:56] <SWPadnos> lots of crap there, but they mention that it shuold make installing apps on Linux, across various desktop environments, easier
[22:33:42] <cradek> jepler: I'm glad it works and isn't another PnP thing
[22:34:02] <SWPadnos> heh - from the slashdot discussions: "I hope this will fix the problem of Kubuntu not automatically adding menu items for some GNOME applications that would normally be in the menu."
[22:34:09] <cradek> fwiw I've seen machines missing their -12v supply and everything works fine but the serial ports
[22:34:12] <SWPadnos> sounds familiar
[22:34:27] <cradek> SWPadnos: interesting
[22:34:37] <jepler> I suppose I should test an LED next
[22:34:40] <A-L-P-H-A> how... I'm kind of stuck. I change the theme or windows manager to metacity in iceWM... and now I can't change back. How do I go about doing this?
[22:34:46] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: help. please.
[22:34:47] <jepler> cradek: actually, I'll leave all that to you
[22:34:51] <SWPadnos> and lots of laptops don't quadruple the voltages, they only double, so you end up with +-6 or +-10 instead of 12
[22:35:23] <jepler> SWPadnos: some stuff I read today says that >+3 and <-3 are acceptable voltages at the receiver...
[22:35:35] <cradek> jepler: it's the kind of thing I suspect we'll want to test on many machines
[22:35:48] <SWPadnos> that may be true. I think the old spec was +- 5 or so, to account for long wires
[22:36:04] <jepler> cradek: there could still be some PNP problems looming, because the kernel does configure the ports at boot-up, and I tell it "buzz off" with setserial
[22:36:20] <cradek> SWPadnos: do you know about how much current is available on the handshaking lines?
[22:36:39] <SWPadnos> not many mA, as I recall. sometihng like 10 or so per pin
[22:36:43] <cradek> or were you there for that discussion
[22:37:01] <cradek> ok that's what we found in a few places too
[22:37:04] <SWPadnos> I was around (and I've done stuff with serial-powered devices in the distant past)
[22:37:19] <cradek> I have too, but low current
[22:37:31] <jepler> running 1 LED is low current .. isn't it?
[22:37:39] <SWPadnos> yep - current draw determined by the amount you could get out of the serial port ;)
[22:37:51] <cradek> jepler: "depends"
[22:37:54] <SWPadnos> as long as you use a suitably high value limiting resistor
[22:38:20] <SWPadnos> most LEDs are intended to run at 20 mA for full brightness, but they'll light with less
[22:39:51] <anonimasu> 24hm
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> les_w: awake?
[22:49:10] <jepler> this random green LED I found lights up when connected from a data pin to GND
[22:49:34] <SWPadnos> check the voltage while it's on - you'll see if the load is too high
[22:49:54] <SWPadnos> the voltage at the output pin, that is
[22:50:20] <cradek> the 1488 was current-limited at 10mA
[22:50:42] <jepler> I'm measuring about 1.9V
[22:50:53] <SWPadnos> across the LED or at the output (or both)?
[22:50:56] <jepler> across the LED
[22:51:15] <SWPadnos> ok, that's just the forward vltage of the LED. check from case ground to the output pon
[22:51:17] <SWPadnos> pin
[22:51:39] <jepler> I don't have a current-limiting resistor in this case, so it's the same voltage
[22:51:45] <SWPadnos> ah
[22:51:56] <SWPadnos> that's probably not a great thing to do for long periods
[22:52:03] <jepler> for the LED or for the port?
[22:52:07] <SWPadnos> the port
[22:52:34] <SWPadnos> the port probably can't overdrive the LED, but it may damage the driver chip to try to suck that much current for too long
[22:53:30] <jepler> you're figuring 10V * 10mA == 100mW dissipated in the driver chip?
[22:53:41] <cradek> it's going to be between two data pins, not one pin and ground, right?
[22:53:59] <SWPadnos> just thinking about overcurrent on really tiny components in the chip :)
[22:54:10] <jepler> cradek: right now it's between one data pin and ground, but in the setup we discussed it would be between two data pins
[22:55:20] <cradek> assuming 20v between two pins and 2v on the led, you want 1800 ohm
[22:55:48] <cradek> (for 10mA)
[22:55:55] <jepler> I appear to have the worst resistor assortment ever
[22:55:59] <SWPadnos> 2k is probably close enough
[22:56:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:56:11] <jepler> it jumps from 390 to 3.3k
[22:56:12] <cradek> like anyone has a 2k resistor
[22:56:19] <cradek> you don't have 2.2k?
[22:56:22] <jepler> it's modular, I must be missing a box
[22:56:29] <cradek> 2 * 1k
[22:56:40] <cradek> oh
[22:56:42] <SWPadnos> use a 3.3k for the 20V case, or two 390's in series for the 10V case
[22:56:46] <cradek> * cradek rereads the screen
[22:57:08] <SWPadnos> 6 mA will be somewhat dim, but still visible inside
[23:00:57] <jepler> I now connected between two data pins, one at +V and the other at -V. now I read 21.6V no-load, 17.6 with LED in series with 3.3k resistor
[23:01:15] <SWPadnos> how bright is the LED?
[23:01:45] <jepler> it lights but I can't tell how well -- it's got a lens, and I don't have enough hands to point it at me while I keep all the alligator clips from touching more than one pin on the port
[23:02:34] <jepler> it lights just fine
[23:02:41] <jepler> * jepler carefully positions everything
[23:02:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:29:06] <jepler> I hate microsoft
[23:29:15] <jepler> I just rebooted that other machine into windows XP to play a game
[23:29:22] <anonimasu> lol
[23:29:38] <jepler> the mouse wouldn't move, and then it started berating me that I was trying to install an unsigned driver, and then it told me to insert some CD I probably threw out
[23:29:43] <jepler> all because I plugged the mouse into USB
[23:33:11] <anonimasu> jepler: and how is that different from having to insmod the modules manually?
[23:33:11] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:34:10] <jepler> Kernel: Warning: license 'smartarse' taints channel '#emc'
[23:37:00] <anonimasu> jepler: while I hate windows.. that's kind of a zealot statement..
[23:40:52] <anonimasu> well, night all