#emc | Logs for 2006-09-17

[12:24:42] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: beeing offline you probably missed this: http://freenode.net/news.shtml
[12:29:06] <alex_joni> bbl.
[12:32:32] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, okay. you go bbl.
[13:59:13] <rayh> logger_aj, bookmark
[13:59:13] <rayh> See
[14:03:52] <rayh> query steves_logging
[14:04:01] <rayh> That didn't work.
[14:05:46] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[14:28:47] <jepler> apparently it got steve's attention..
[15:35:06] <rayh> Hi Jeff
[15:49:04] <alex_joni> hi ray
[15:49:06] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[15:49:48] <jepler> hi alex
[15:49:50] <jepler> hi ray
[15:50:00] <jepler> busy day
[15:51:45] <alex_joni> jepler: same here.. just got home :)
[15:51:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni feels very sorry about lilo
[15:52:21] <jepler> me too
[15:52:32] <jmkasunich> yeah
[15:53:19] <alex_joni> hi jmk
[15:53:29] <jmkasunich> hi guys
[15:53:40] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: lets talk a bit in emc-devel
[16:18:45] <rayh> Thanks for the heads up re lilo. I just talked with him on the phone a couple weeks ago.
[16:20:45] <alex_joni> rayh: I know
[16:25:12] <rayh> Interesting how the web creates near personal relationships
[16:27:10] <jmkasunich> near personal, but still disconnected
[16:27:54] <jmkasunich> a regular on a mailing list or IRC channel sometimes just disappears
[16:28:03] <jmkasunich> and you never know what happened
[16:28:16] <jmkasunich> moved? change in interest? ill? dead?
[16:29:11] <rayh> Yep.
[16:29:37] <rayh> Hi jmkasunich
[16:29:42] <jmkasunich> hi ray
[16:31:28] <rayh> got two more weeks of travel myself then home for a while.
[16:44:32] <rayh> Nice to have wiki working in predictable ways. Thanks guys.
[16:44:47] <alex_joni> rayh: np
[17:29:54] <threeseas> somebody really should mention that installing emc on ubuntu and changinging the kernel to real time disables the printer
[17:30:27] <threeseas> why does linux had to be such a godzilla about printers?
[17:30:34] <threeseas> had=have
[17:30:46] <jmkasunich> the problem is that many emc users use the parport for stepper signals
[17:30:58] <alex_joni> threeseas: you can still keep the printer and emc, but you'll end up with problems
[17:31:05] <alex_joni> problems which normal users can't solve
[17:31:21] <jmkasunich> if the linux printer stuff is installed, then you wind up with your machine moving at 2am when the printer server resets itself
[17:31:29] <threeseas> right, that's why I could safely assume. but all I wanted it for is simulation to test g-code
[17:31:40] <jmkasunich> it _is_ possible to re-enable the printers
[17:32:32] <jmkasunich> but we figured it was better to disable by default for the majority who are using steppers, and provide re-enabling instructions for the minority that aren't using the parport for their machine control
[17:32:37] <threeseas> well this system will never be connected to a machine, only used to test code, so do I get a clue about printers?
[17:32:52] <jmkasunich> I think the info needed in in our wiki
[17:33:00] <threeseas> ok where are those instructions? :)
[17:33:01] <jmkasunich> lemme see if I can find a URL for you
[17:33:07] <threeseas> ok
[17:34:43] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[17:35:05] <jmkasunich> that covers the opposite problem
[17:35:07] <alex_joni> threeseas: you need to read #2
[17:35:16] <jmkasunich> linux printer interfering with emc
[17:35:17] <threeseas> thanks
[17:35:28] <alex_joni> and get the idea to edit /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 and comment the line inside
[17:35:29] <jmkasunich> I think he wants emc to stop interfering with linux printing
[17:35:39] <Jymmm> networking printing would be an alternative.
[17:35:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi all
[17:35:40] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I know
[17:35:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: I saw that about lilo earlier... :(
[17:36:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does the printer stuff even apply to nfs/samba/other or usb printers?
[17:36:37] <jmkasunich> no
[17:36:48] <jmkasunich> emc and non-parport printers should get along just fine
[17:36:59] <Jymmm> CUPS
[17:37:23] <jmkasunich> hmm, unless maybe cups is completely disabled to keep it from messing with the parport?
[17:37:30] <alex_joni> even usb printers should be ok
[17:37:33] <jmkasunich> I dunno, I use a network printer
[17:37:42] <Jymmm> what jmkasunich said.
[17:37:42] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: cups is not disabled afaik
[17:37:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> lpr shoudl still work though, even without CUPS, right?
[17:37:57] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra is it setup to network print?
[17:38:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Jymmm: huh?
[17:38:28] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra LPR can network print to an ip address
[17:39:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok. I was thinking lpr to <insert interface other than parport>
[17:39:21] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra Right, like NETWROK INTERFACE =)
[17:39:27] <Jymmm> less the typos =)
[17:39:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah ;)
[17:40:45] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra are you 100% nix or do you have 2k/xp too ?
[17:41:17] <threeseas> alex_joni: so that's the only line in that file? comment character is ?? # ??
[17:41:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> my CAD/CAM only runs under 2k/xp, and I'
[17:42:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> m too lazy to set up a VM
[17:42:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra mumbles about the distance between ' and <enter>
[17:42:33] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra: Ok, there ARE nix services under XP you can install, That'll turn a printer on XP into a nox print server.
[17:42:42] <Jymmm> s/nox/nix/
[17:42:45] <threeseas> yes... answering my own question
[17:43:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> If I set up a network printer it'l probably be on my linux box
[17:43:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which I'll also set up to be server for various other things too
[17:43:25] <alex_joni> threeseas: right
[17:44:28] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra: I'd do it the ither way around personally, but whatever is best for your situation.
[17:44:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm not planning to set anything like that up anyway
[17:44:54] <alex_joni> Jymmm: a decent printer has LAN on board anyways
[17:45:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and I don't really need a print-server
[17:45:07] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra M$ has better driver support for advanced printer features than nix does.
[17:45:31] <alex_joni> Jymmm: right, but I think nix would make a better print server than windows
[17:45:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> IIRC doesn't HP have first party drivers for most of their printers?
[17:45:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni Not all of us have 150 lb LJ 6 with JetDirect cards =)
[17:45:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra seconds alex_joni
[17:45:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: if only for the fact that you can easily archive the prints
[17:46:02] <alex_joni> Jymmm: and with CUPS you still use the M$ driver on the clients anyways
[17:46:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni you can do that with M$ too.
[17:46:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: a decent colour laser printer with LAN is 6-700 $
[17:46:30] <alex_joni> I think that's affordable
[17:46:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what's a decent B&W laser cost?
[17:46:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> speed wouldn't really matter
[17:46:52] <threeseas> Isuppose I need to re-boot
[17:46:54] <Jymmm> alex_joni If you do that much color printing and can afford the $120 per color toner carteidges.
[17:46:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> mainly cheap prints/page
[17:47:01] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: it can go very low if you take ebay into account
[17:47:01] <threeseas> ~~~ <-bye
[17:47:20] <jmkasunich> I got a B&W laser with LAN for $149 new
[17:47:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: oh, that's a good idea
[17:47:25] <alex_joni> Jymmm: even if you don't do that much printing, and change the 120$ only once in a while
[17:47:26] <Jymmm> The cost of the printer is nothing compared to the cost of the consumables.
[17:47:33] <jmkasunich> Brother 1170N or something like that
[17:47:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jmkasunich: samba, nfs?
[17:47:44] <Jymmm> brother?! ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[17:47:51] <jmkasunich> hey, it works
[17:47:54] <alex_joni> you can probably get some old L4 or something like that for 30-40$
[17:48:15] <jmkasunich> I have no idea what the protocol is, I googled for instructions to make it work with linux, and it does
[17:48:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Well, I know where you got yours from, so that doesn't count (as it was free)
[17:48:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'll have to check out the gold mine at school this week
[17:48:32] <jmkasunich> linux printing does suck, and I spend as little time as possible dealing with it
[17:48:35] <alex_joni> hmm.. the Google Site Search on linuxcnc.org works quite well
[17:48:37] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: wrong
[17:48:41] <alex_joni> and finds stuff in the wiki too
[17:48:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> they have this trash room where they thow away nice working stuff
[17:48:49] <Jymmm> jmkasunich WHAT?! You actually BOUGHT it?!
[17:48:50] <jmkasunich> I bought it brand spanking new from Office Max
[17:49:06] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hides his head in the shame of it all! =)
[17:49:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm: Brother _used_ to be very bad
[17:49:34] <alex_joni> nowadays they _all_ are equally bad
[17:49:35] <alex_joni> :D
[17:49:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> except lexmark
[17:49:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which are worse
[17:49:55] <Jymmm> lol, not all surprisingly but most
[17:50:04] <alex_joni> Jymmm: the usual consumer crap
[17:50:17] <alex_joni> if you can afford a nice one (1k+) then it's probably good
[17:50:27] <Jymmm> I've had my LJ4p for over 10 years and it's still goin.
[17:50:41] <alex_joni> Jymmm: right, that's a very good one
[17:50:51] <alex_joni> I had some LJ1100 now a LJ1200
[17:50:54] <alex_joni> both decent
[17:51:17] <alex_joni> the LJ1100 had problems with feeding, so I brought it to a HP certified repair shop
[17:51:20] <Jymmm> I just sold a LJ4L for $25, worked perfect, just needed another toner cart.
[17:51:39] <alex_joni> and they didn't notice it's an US model, so they plugged it in 220V mains, and fscked all the components
[17:51:58] <jepler> ha ha
[17:52:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni so what did they give you for a replacement?
[17:52:02] <jepler> did they say they were sorry?
[17:52:08] <alex_joni> jepler: not even
[17:52:20] <alex_joni> Jymmm: don't get me started..
[17:52:55] <alex_joni> it's a rotten society ;)
[17:53:23] <Jymmm> I'd call HP Corp and tell them their CERTIFIED repair are dumbasses
[17:54:10] <alex_joni> I did
[17:54:17] <Jymmm> and?
[17:54:20] <alex_joni> but then I ran out of people to call..
[17:54:37] <Jymmm> did you call the presidents office?
[17:54:38] <alex_joni> I would have needed to call HP US and tell them HP Romania are dumbasses
[17:54:46] <Jymmm> ah
[17:54:56] <alex_joni> didn't bother for a 300$ printer
[17:55:57] <alex_joni> ick.. the 'new' yahoo mail doesn't work with Opera :-/
[17:55:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: you got a replacement, right?
[17:56:04] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: no
[17:56:17] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: they said it wasn't covered by warranty
[17:56:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> when they broke it?
[17:56:33] <alex_joni> and they won't cover any costs outside the initial work extent
[17:57:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> didn't they break it?
[17:58:20] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: they said I didn't tell them it's not an EU model :)
[17:58:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ...
[17:58:36] <alex_joni> indeed ...
[18:04:30] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:20:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, random noticing, pressing up/down in MDI doesn't have similar behavior as a bash console would
[18:20:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> IMO that would be rather practical
[18:20:59] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: no sh*t ;)
[18:21:26] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: actually it's a very nice feature.. but not really easy to implement
[18:21:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so why isn't that implemented?
[18:21:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh
[18:21:31] <alex_joni> jepler did it for halcmd
[18:21:37] <alex_joni> if you run halcmd -kf
[18:21:49] <alex_joni> then you have tab completion for names, and up/down history, etc
[18:22:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, that's really nice
[18:22:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> though IMO in MDI only up/down is of real use
[18:22:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> as g-codes are so short
[18:22:25] <alex_joni> right
[18:22:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and have different parameters each time
[18:22:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> history would be really good (r) though
[18:28:42] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: patches happily accepted :D
[18:29:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I can't code. yet.
[18:29:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so wait a couple years ;)
[18:29:43] <alex_joni> I can wait.. no issues
[18:29:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so you can get wonderful undergrad-esque code
[18:30:24] <alex_joni> better than none
[18:31:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> barely ;)
[19:08:11] <acemi> do I need to change anything in "make menuconfig" before building RTAI 3.4test2? or defaults are all OK?
[19:09:15] <alex_joni> acemi: never tried 3.4test2
[19:09:20] <alex_joni> but usually are defaults ok
[19:09:47] <acemi> İ tried it but I have some problem
[19:10:06] <cradek> isn't the real 3.4 released?
[19:10:08] <alex_joni> acemi: what kind?
[19:10:51] <acemi> for example EMC cannot remove module when shutting
[19:13:44] <acemi> cradek, no, the last stable is 3.3
[20:26:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[20:50:40] <Guest402> join #emc-devel
[20:52:38] <alex_joni> you need /join
[20:53:04] <alex_joni> Guest402: is that Bas ?
[20:54:23] <Guest402> Hi Alex, yes this is Bas experimenting with IRC
[21:24:39] <alex_joni> Guest402: any luck so far?
[21:24:49] <alex_joni> as you see we're not quite always responding imediately
[21:29:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I see that you have an EMC & Ubuntu live CD
[21:29:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cool
[21:39:56] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:40:11] <robin_sz> * robin_sz returns from taking his kids climbing
[21:41:17] <robin_sz> its amazing how cooperative they are when you have them dangling 20m above the ground on the end of a rope
[21:48:29] <cradek> darn Bas left
[21:48:45] <alex_joni> cradek: yup :(
[21:48:51] <alex_joni> might be getting late there
[21:54:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:55:01] <alex_joni> night
[21:57:31] <skunkworks> anything new?
[21:57:56] <alex_joni> LiveCD with emc2
[21:58:02] <rayh> Hey skunkworks. How's it going?
[21:59:26] <skunkworks> Good. Been busy this summer. Nothing exciting done.
[22:00:01] <alex_joni> skunkworks: there's always next summer
[22:00:11] <skunkworks> Hopefully this winter I will be playing with emc some more.
[22:00:48] <skunkworks> alex_joni: what is the live cd based on?
[22:01:08] <alex_joni> dapper
[22:01:13] <skunkworks> cool
[22:01:41] <skunkworks> rayh: how is the embedded emc2 controller coming?
[22:02:08] <rayh> just fiddling for now.
[22:02:42] <rayh> the halui stuff makes it a lot easier to hard wire a control panel.
[22:03:31] <skunkworks> more "stuff" to play with :)
[22:03:38] <rayh> You bet.
[22:03:46] <rayh> It gets better all the time.
[22:04:00] <alex_joni> rayh: cool, let me know how it goes :)
[22:04:02] <rayh> I've got to get back to Roland's and update the Mazak.
[22:04:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni dreams of large panels stuffed with knobs and switches
[22:04:28] <skunkworks> I made one of the servo drives - but have not had a chance to play with it much other than sending it a pwm signal and running a motor.
[22:04:46] <rayh> That sounds like progress.
[22:05:21] <alex_joni> rayh: btw, I never showed you pics of my 'new' machine ;)
[22:05:35] <rayh> No you didn't, alex
[22:05:39] <alex_joni> hang on
[22:05:44] <skunkworks> alex_joni is waiting for me to come back and say I burned up the ir2111 ;)
[22:05:47] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/projects/01157974398
[22:05:55] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I'm not waiting
[22:06:02] <alex_joni> I _KNOW_ it will happen
[22:06:21] <skunkworks> :) SO far so good.
[22:06:23] <alex_joni> skunkworks: :)
[22:06:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks: actually I hope you'll never have any problems with it..
[22:07:22] <rayh> nice. I like the way you built the base to stabilize the xy table.
[22:07:36] <skunkworks> alex_joni: that should be fun to play with
[22:07:50] <alex_joni> I hope so
[22:07:50] <skunkworks> it is nice having 3+ axis's
[22:08:15] <alex_joni> skunkworks: axes
[22:08:38] <alex_joni> ;-)
[22:09:24] <alex_joni> skunkworks: but what do I know.. it's your mother tongue
[22:10:15] <skunkworks> I blame it on my schooling
[22:10:22] <skunkworks> :)
[22:12:20] <rayh> There is some possible argument about proper word construction with plural axis.
[22:12:55] <rayh> You do nice welding, alex.
[22:13:14] <skunkworks> it was probably done with a robot :)
[22:13:17] <alex_joni> rayh: I should :)
[22:13:21] <alex_joni> skunkworks: nah, manual
[22:13:58] <alex_joni> and that is a pretty crappy weld..
[22:14:08] <alex_joni> only the thick powdercoat over it makes it look nice :D
[22:15:19] <robin_sz> I'll have to photo a good weld next time we fabricate somehting .. one of our guys is an artist with a MIG torch
[22:15:40] <rayh> ah. The wide gap welding stick, eh.
[22:16:11] <cradek> I say it's spelled axisses
[22:16:35] <alex_joni> axisses's
[22:16:40] <rayh> that's nice
[22:17:13] <alex_joni> cradek: 2A @ 45V from a L297/298 is not too much.. is it?
[22:17:34] <rayh> not a lot.
[22:17:37] <cradek> no but you want a nice heat sink
[22:17:52] <cradek> 45 might be near the limit, better check
[22:17:57] <cradek> I use 42 I think
[22:18:09] <cradek> (with very good snubber diodes)
[22:18:23] <robin_sz> yip
[22:18:47] <robin_sz> the diodes are the key really
[22:19:21] <alex_joni> ok.. thx
[22:19:55] <cradek> it bothers me that axes can be "more than one axis" and "more than one axe"
[22:20:17] <robin_sz> yeah ... thats english for you
[22:20:22] <cradek> alex_joni: is it moving yet?
[22:20:32] <alex_joni> cradek: it was moving at one point :D
[22:20:45] <robin_sz> you can smelt copper
[22:20:51] <robin_sz> and he smelt a rat
[22:20:54] <alex_joni> nah, the PWM was audible
[22:21:03] <alex_joni> about 14-15kHz I'd say, really annoying
[22:21:19] <alex_joni> so I asked my coworker to do something about it :)
[22:21:25] <cradek> you can't hear it over the sound of the spindle can you?
[22:21:32] <alex_joni> I think he has it at 40kHz now, and it's not moving at all
[22:21:39] <alex_joni> cradek: who said I'll have a spindle?
[22:21:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni still ain't sure what to do with it
[22:21:55] <alex_joni> maybe a probe..
[22:22:43] <cradek> a felt-tip pen
[22:22:56] <alex_joni> even that ;)
[22:22:56] <cradek> etch-resist ink?
[22:23:12] <alex_joni> how about invisible ink?
[22:23:19] <alex_joni> to make invisible paintings... :)
[22:23:21] <cradek> looks like you already have that
[22:23:29] <alex_joni> lol
[22:26:10] <cradek> do you have 3 drivers already?
[22:26:29] <alex_joni> I have 2 G201's
[22:26:35] <alex_joni> and this homebrewed
[22:26:40] <skunkworks> alex_joni: your going with servos?
[22:26:43] <alex_joni> wish I had bought more geckos
[22:26:47] <alex_joni> skunkworks: stepper geckos
[22:26:56] <skunkworks> aww - thats cheating
[22:26:58] <skunkworks> :)
[22:27:07] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I have plenty of G340
[22:27:07] <cradek> ah
[22:27:18] <alex_joni> but I have no idea how to mount encoders to this small mill :)
[22:27:25] <alex_joni> I'm used to big iron ..
[22:28:12] <alex_joni> and the motors I have around, can probably tear it to pieces
[22:28:20] <skunkworks> I bet :)
[22:28:20] <alex_joni> 150W+
[22:28:34] <alex_joni> although I have some _really_ nice ones on the new robots
[22:28:39] <alex_joni> 3.5kW AC
[22:28:52] <alex_joni> about 20x10x10 cm
[22:29:20] <skunkworks> that must be a tight little package
[22:29:29] <alex_joni> 600V motors
[22:29:52] <skunkworks> (sorry - sounded almost sexual.)
[22:30:12] <alex_joni> lol.. the main idea is : high voltage, low current for the same power
[22:30:12] <cradek> almost?
[22:30:23] <alex_joni> which means smaller wires, smaller package
[22:30:32] <skunkworks> right.
[22:32:07] <robin_sz> and usually lower inertia too
[22:32:26] <alex_joni> only advantages ;)
[22:32:48] <alex_joni> makes you wonder wth the chip manufacturers didn't make high voltage power mosfets sooner
[22:33:38] <jmkasunich> cause its hard to make a good high voltage mosfet
[22:34:12] <robin_sz> actually, its not always better ...
[22:34:49] <robin_sz> by the time you add a gearbox,, the effective inertia of the motor goes up square law
[22:35:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: these are usually with 1 level reductions only
[22:35:53] <robin_sz> so a fast spinnng low inertia motor with a 20:1 gearbox can end up higher effective inertia than a slow, heavy motor with a 5:1 box ...
[23:00:14] <skunkworks> well I have been running emc2 all weekend on the computer that was reverting back to the login screen - it has been running. Odd
[23:11:20] <skunkworks> it is a 400mhz pentium II compaq that seems to like the 600mhz pentium III I stuck into it. Nice speed for me.
[23:12:37] <skunkworks> It took me a bit to get the case open - it has a security solenoid that was tripped. The bios didn't have a password in it and I was able to get in and deactivate the solinoid.
[23:19:08] <jepler> yay about the live cd
[23:20:24] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[23:21:53] <jepler> hi alex
[23:23:50] <skunkworks> I thought there was a live cd a while ago - was that the breezy live cd?
[23:24:12] <jepler> skunkworks: yes, I think it was breezy
[23:24:14] <jepler> no install option
[23:24:19] <skunkworks> ah
[23:24:21] <skunkworks> cool
[23:24:31] <jepler> this is live + install if I understand correctly
[23:24:59] <jepler> bbl
[23:28:58] <alex_joni> jepler: correct
[23:29:06] <alex_joni> and latest updates
[23:32:14] <skunkworks> nice work
[23:33:09] <tomp> I was in the middle of installing dapper, then emc2 from cvs when I heard of new cd, will I miss anything?
[23:36:46] <jmkasunich> no
[23:36:58] <jmkasunich> live CDs are just a convenience thing
[23:37:15] <tomp> thanks
[23:37:21] <jmkasunich> dapper + cvs is as up-to-date as you can get
[23:37:49] <skunkworks> tomp: can I ask why you didn't use the install script?
[23:38:08] <tomp> did use it
[23:38:40] <tomp> 1st I install dapper, then run the emc2-install.sh
[23:39:07] <jmkasunich> then what did you mean by "dapper, then emc2 from cvs" ?
[23:39:37] <tomp> i download dapper iso, and install it, then run the shell script
[23:39:59] <tomp> then get release version
[23:40:36] <tomp> what, should shell script be the end of the line?
[23:40:53] <jmkasunich> the shell script _does_ get you the released version (I think)
[23:41:21] <jmkasunich> users of the released version don't have anything to do with cvs
[23:41:43] <skunkworks> Hi john
[23:41:58] <jmkasunich> hi
[23:43:13] <tomp> emc-wiki instructions are to use cbs to get released version, I cant argue with the instructions
[23:43:17] <tomp> cvs
[23:43:28] <jmkasunich> can you point me at that wiki page?
[23:43:35] <jmkasunich> because that is wrong, and needs fixed
[23:43:39] <jmkasunich> cvs != released
[23:43:54] <jmkasunich> thats the whole point of cvs, it is the bleeding edge development version
[23:44:54] <jmkasunich> it could be that you, tomp, need the cvs because you want to experiment with some bleeding edge features that aren't in the released version
[23:45:17] <jmkasunich> but that should be a concious decision made by you, not something you are lead into by a bad wiki page
[23:46:39] <tomp> john, i know you know better, but the instructions are ther for getting 'release' and i followed the instructions, conciously yes, but ver batim
[23:47:09] <jmkasunich> so what instructions did you follow? if you give me the url, I will fix them
[23:47:36] <tomp> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS section 2.2
[23:48:05] <SWPadnos> those are two separate methods of getting EMC2
[23:48:12] <SWPadnos> 1 is for precompiled packages
[23:48:13] <jmkasunich> section 1 is the section you wanted
[23:48:15] <SWPadnos> 2 is for CVS
[23:48:28] <skunkworks> section 1 sends you here http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4 short and sweet.
[23:49:42] <tomp> I think you get more with cvs, but that you can run with method 1
[23:49:55] <jmkasunich> cvs gives you the source code
[23:50:06] <jmkasunich> which you only need if you are going to be editing the code
[23:50:31] <tomp> I dont know enuf to argue it, i just wondered if the live cd offered more or newer, thanks
[23:50:32] <jmkasunich> cvs can also get you the latest development version, instead of the released version
[23:51:11] <SWPadnos> the LiveCD probably has some updates that the stock Ubuntu 6.06 doesn't (around 300M, last time I checked)
[23:51:24] <SWPadnos> unless you're installing from a very recent 6.06 (6.06.1)
[23:51:31] <jmkasunich> updates entirely unrelated to EMC tho
[23:51:51] <SWPadnos> yes, but updates that you'll be asked about until you install them ;)
[23:51:59] <SWPadnos> some of which are important, such as X updates
[23:52:06] <tomp> ok, i did use 6.06.1 and thanks again
[23:52:09] <jmkasunich> which you can do with a click once the install is done
[23:52:35] <SWPadnos> sure. it's just the 300M of download (though a 600M ISO is more, so it's not really a savings to get it)
[23:53:09] <jmkasunich> its a savings if you haven't already downloaded the original dapper CD
[23:53:15] <tomp> yes, just finished the updates, phew! after over an hour i was afraid of a hangup, and was looking at the live cd and a wipe of the partition
[23:53:19] <SWPadnos> heh - yep
[23:53:53] <tomp> emc2 runs, thank you all.
[23:53:54] <jmkasunich> if you went to ubuntu.org today and downloaded an iso, you'd get the latest, right? or would you still need 300M of updates?
[23:54:07] <jmkasunich> tomp: thats good
[23:54:17] <SWPadnos> they did an interim release - 6.06.1
[23:54:26] <SWPadnos> otherwise, you'd need all the updates
[23:55:02] <SWPadnos> I think their policy is to change the ISOs as infrequently as possible
[23:55:17] <jmkasunich> well, I can agree with that
[23:55:23] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:55:26] <jmkasunich> install, then use the update manager to stay up to date
[23:55:48] <jmkasunich> when there are so many updates that the manager needs to dl 300M, then its time for new isos
[23:55:51] <SWPadnos> right. I'm not sure why they did an interim release, but it could be due to X or installer issues
[23:56:08] <jmkasunich> I'm guessing to save people bandwidth
[23:56:16] <SWPadnos> that too ;)
[23:56:54] <jmkasunich> especially if you have dialup and mailed away for the CD, you don't want to do the install and then find out that half the damned cd is out of date and needs downloaded anyeay
[23:57:12] <SWPadnos> at the rate they ship, it's faster to download on dialup ;)