#emc | Logs for 2006-09-03

[00:03:38] <davidf> hi...
[00:04:08] <cradek> hi how's your errant machine?
[00:04:14] <davidf> hi cradek
[00:04:38] <davidf> I scrounged around & found a 2 Gig HD to install ubuntu on.
[00:04:46] <cradek> great
[00:05:13] <davidf> But 80% thru install, it stopped. Think the disk is full, or has a problem
[00:05:43] <cradek> seems like it should fit ok in 2G
[00:05:51] <cradek> does it give an error?
[00:05:54] <davidf> At start, it asked how to format the drive. opt 1 was erase entire disk & install ubuntu.
[00:06:26] <davidf> opt 2 was same, erase all, etc but use LVM. Should I have used that one (I used opt 1.)
[00:06:37] <cradek> no you don't need lvm
[00:06:59] <davidf> With this partial install, I have a shell only.
[00:07:21] <davidf> Im trying to fig out how to see the HD free space. Help?
[00:07:27] <cradek> df
[00:07:34] <davidf> df?
[00:07:52] <davidf> drive free (space?)
[00:08:17] <cradek> not sure what it stands for, but it's df
[00:08:23] <davidf> used 1810185 free 0
[00:08:35] <alex_joni> cradek: disk free
[00:08:49] <cradek> ouch, seems like it is full
[00:09:12] <davidf> yeah. Maybe it had a lot of bad clusters.
[00:09:25] <cradek> are you installing breezy or dapper?
[00:10:09] <davidf> I have a 6 Gig with win 98 on it, I want to keep win. Think I can put it on that, & ubuntu will create a partition at install. That right?
[00:10:18] <davidf> Breezy.
[00:10:45] <cradek> you probably have the win 98 partition using the whole disk, so you would have to shrink it somehow, which is a shaky thing at best
[00:10:58] <cradek> I'm surprised breezy doesn't fit on a 2G disk.
[00:11:02] <davidf> darn.
[00:11:16] <davidf> It says 2 Gig in the min specs.
[00:11:17] <cradek> drop by my place and I'll give you a few 4G disks
[00:11:25] <davidf> ha.
[00:11:35] <davidf> I'll just stroll on over.
[00:11:46] <cradek> ok I'll start some coffee
[00:12:05] <davidf> I'll need it, I think it'll be a long walk.
[00:13:22] <davidf> There is a server version of the install that only needs like 500 Meg. Will that be the same w/o the desktop apps?
[00:13:40] <cradek> I think server doesn't even install X by default
[00:14:05] <davidf> Maybe I could do that & just put emc on it afterwards. That's all I need for the mill.
[00:14:29] <cradek> if you're not real familiar with unix you probably want to find room for gnome which includes all the graphical administration tools
[00:14:44] <cradek> I can't find the system requirements on ubuntu.com
[00:14:44] <davidf> oh, yeah definitely.
[00:15:26] <davidf> I'm gonna start over and see how much I can restrict the install. Dont need openoffice, etc.
[00:15:56] <cradek> I don't recall being able to do that, but yeah ditching openoffice will give you plenty of room.
[00:17:06] <cradek> dapper desktop does require 3 GB of hard disk
[00:17:10] <cradek> haven't found breezy yet
[00:17:33] <cradek> huh, it says 2G
[00:17:38] <cradek> wonder if that's excluding swap
[00:17:57] <davidf> right. But the drive only formatted to 1.8 something
[00:18:10] <cradek> it probably used 200MB for swap
[00:18:18] <davidf> oh.
[00:19:43] <cradek> you could try to coerce it into using less for swap, but it's still going to be very tight
[00:20:06] <cradek> but I guess if you get it to install, you can delete some stuff (openoffice) to make room for emc
[00:20:59] <davidf> yeah. I still checking the installation options
[00:20:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/halmodule.cc:
[00:20:59] <CIA-8> make SIGTERM raise a Python exception (the slightly inappropriate
[00:20:59] <CIA-8> KeyboardInterrupt), so that the component can exit gracefully
[00:21:19] <alex_joni> davidf: I think I remember an option for minimal install
[00:21:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: make the command 'unloadusr' be a tab expansion possibility
[00:21:26] <alex_joni> from there you can apt-get the rest
[00:21:34] <alex_joni> but it's not a trivial task :)
[00:22:20] <alex_joni> I think apt-get install ubuntu-desktop should pull in enough stuff
[00:22:35] <cradek> that'll give openoffice
[00:22:41] <alex_joni> oh, really?
[00:22:52] <davidf> yes, its the server option. Minimal system. But then I'll need Gnome for the GUI, & have to get that in a shell right?
[00:23:02] <alex_joni> davidf: yes
[00:23:16] <davidf> & get on line, etc.
[00:23:33] <davidf> Hey guys. Here's an idea, maybe dumb...
[00:24:23] <davidf> My 20 Gig drive with ubuntu is set as slave. How bout I install the 2 Gig on the same machine and just copy stuff I need over to it?
[00:24:57] <cradek> why don't you just stick that working disk in this machine?
[00:25:37] <davidf> I tried to do that but it was jumpered as slave on install, and wont boot in the other machine
[00:25:56] <davidf> Never did really understand that...
[00:25:58] <cradek> is there a master disk in it?
[00:26:30] <davidf> Well there is now, with a partial brezzy install on it.
[00:26:48] <davidf> But I havent tried it that way. Sure, why not?
[00:26:55] <alex_joni> davidf: remove the master, and check for BIOS booting settings
[00:27:04] <cradek> how much ram is in the machine you want to use with this new disk?
[00:27:08] <alex_joni> there should be something like IDE-0, IDE-1, IDE-2 maybe
[00:27:17] <davidf> right now, 320 Meg
[00:27:32] <cradek> 320 meg of ram? you hardly need swap at all then
[00:28:00] <cradek> maybe try reinstalling breezy but make a tiny swap partition (20MB)
[00:28:22] <davidf> I have a 64 meg chip I can add too.
[00:29:00] <davidf> alex_joni, you mean for boot options?
[00:29:06] <alex_joni> davidf: yes
[00:29:22] <cradek> I bet it's still going to take some coercion to make it fit though
[00:29:34] <davidf> yeah, np. I can do that (boot from any HD)
[00:30:00] <alex_joni> davidf: thought you said it's not working
[00:30:48] <davidf> I mean that particular drive will not boot up on that machine.
[00:31:16] <alex_joni> davidf: not sure what that means
[00:31:18] <davidf> Linux thinks that drive is hdb1
[00:31:40] <alex_joni> davidf: right, and if you put it in as Primary Slave, it's still hdb1
[00:32:07] <cradek> or you could just fix it
[00:32:25] <alex_joni> fix it?
[00:32:35] <davidf> so set it for cable select and in position 2 should work. But I dont think it does. I'll try again...
[00:32:35] <cradek> edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and /etc/fstab, change all occurrences of hdb to hda, jumper the drive as standalone, now everything is normal
[00:32:57] <davidf> ok.
[00:33:09] <cradek> having the only disk jumpered as slave is just misconfiguration, you should fix it
[00:33:28] <cradek> you did say it boots when it's the only disk plugged in?
[00:33:38] <alex_joni> I don't think it's such a problem having only hdb in
[00:34:00] <davidf> Right. The box came that way & I didn't check it first. Probably had another HD taken out before I bought it.
[00:34:20] <cradek> ok as long as it boots with no other disks plugged in, you know it has a MBR installed
[00:34:52] <davidf> cradek, that is true on the box I originally installed on. (the 733 P3). On my P2, it wont boot.
[00:35:20] <cradek> ok I suggest fixing it then, maybe the P2 won't boot from a slave drive.
[00:35:25] <cradek> you DO have backups of your configs right?
[00:35:52] <cradek> I mean on removable media, floppy, thumb drive, etc
[00:36:08] <davidf> So the best thing sounds like editing back to hda and setting master jmpr and try it on the P2.
[00:36:09] <cradek> because it's sure possible you might fry it doing this kind of thing
[00:36:50] <cradek> that's what I'd do - no reason why it shouldn't boot except maybe that.
[00:37:00] <davidf> you mean actually do hdwr damage or corrupt linux?
[00:37:17] <cradek> I mean make the disk unbootable, or erase it, etc
[00:37:23] <cradek> requiring full reinstall
[00:37:39] <cradek> I just don't want you to lose the working configs you've worked hard on
[00:38:13] <davidf> well thats no great loss. I did back up the configs and the dev version configs as well. and my emails.
[00:38:21] <cradek> ok
[00:38:24] <davidf> Thats all I'm worried about.
[00:38:30] <cradek> then go for it :-)
[00:39:22] <davidf> cept i might have to ask you to kindly help me get the dev version back if I need it. [ :) ]
[00:39:31] <alex_joni> cradek: remind me why he just couldn't make it work as hdb ?
[00:39:42] <cradek> should be easy, I updated the instructions on the wiki
[00:40:03] <cradek> alex_joni: well he says it won't boot
[00:40:08] <davidf> might be just cause the box wont boot a slave w/o a master.
[00:40:15] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't know that all machines (his P2) will load a MBR from the second disk
[00:40:24] <davidf> Or, maybe the box cant see 20 gig...
[00:40:39] <alex_joni> oh.. so you did set it as slave, and there's no BIOS option to boot from the slave ?
[00:40:52] <davidf> I do boot, but only to a shell. It repoerts /dev/boot does not exist.
[00:41:22] <cradek> /dev/boot??
[00:41:43] <davidf> breezy starts loading modules and at the 2nd or 3rd it gives that error & drops to a shell.
[00:41:54] <cradek> maybe it said /dev/root?
[00:41:58] <davidf> something like that. Cant remember exactly.
[00:42:07] <davidf> maybe, yeah.
[00:42:20] <alex_joni> sounds like it got recognized as hda, not hdb
[00:42:35] <cradek> I'd definitely fix those two files and the jumper, then make sure it boots on the old machine
[00:42:40] <alex_joni> davidf: are you sure BIOS reported it as the second IDE?
[00:42:52] <davidf> no.
[00:43:08] <cradek> too many cooks spoiling the soup here - I'm going to take a break and look for dinner, bbl
[00:43:09] <davidf> There was only the one connected at the time too..
[00:43:11] <alex_joni> cradek: I'm somehow reluctant that it'll stop booting at all
[00:43:36] <alex_joni> davidf: lets try it only once, and if it doesn't work, then cradek can help you change it..
[00:43:44] <davidf> well thats ok. I can just reinstall & start over. That's no huge prob.
[00:44:01] <alex_joni> davidf: take the 20G drive, jumper it as slave
[00:44:20] <alex_joni> put it in the box you wanna use (the P2 if I got it right), and start it up
[00:44:26] <davidf> ok...
[00:44:37] <alex_joni> you should see the BIOS detecting it as the second drive, and the first one empty
[00:45:18] <davidf> hmm... only problem is im on that disk right now, online. Cant do it online.
[00:45:19] <alex_joni> if that's not the case, try the other empty connector from the IDE cable
[00:45:28] <alex_joni> davidf: I can understand that ;)
[00:46:06] <davidf> Ive actually tried all that anyway...
[00:46:17] <alex_joni> davidf: you sure ?
[00:46:29] <davidf> It either boots to a shell, or not at all if jumpered for a master.
[00:46:57] <davidf> pretty sure. Both cable positions, both jumpers, etc.
[00:47:24] <davidf> Only thing I havent done is put it in as slave with a master installed as well.
[00:47:24] <alex_joni> you also did rerun HDD detection from the BIOS I presume
[00:47:31] <davidf> That I think should work...
[00:47:59] <davidf> Yeah, you mean set to auto detect & reboot I assume?
[00:48:12] <alex_joni> davidf: yeah, but for all ide drives
[00:48:17] <alex_joni> not just for the first one ;)
[00:49:02] <davidf> oh. No, just the first, but it was the only one, but I see where you're coming from. It was a slave
[00:49:20] <alex_joni> well.. you kinda need the second one aswell ;)
[00:50:06] <alex_joni> you might want to try that ...
[00:50:22] <alex_joni> if it still fails, then try converting it to a master (like chris suggested)
[00:50:51] <davidf> Lemme get this straight...
[00:50:58] <alex_joni> ok..
[00:51:28] <danex> * danex is back.
[00:51:34] <davidf> Youre saying put the drive in jumped for slave, no other drive plugged in, and set bios to auto detect ALL HD's. Right?
[00:51:46] <alex_joni> right
[00:52:03] <alex_joni> and also put BIOS to boot from IDE1 not IDE0 (if there's such an option)
[00:52:32] <alex_joni> my BIOS has bootoptions: FDD, CDROM, HDD0, HDD1, HDD2, SCSI, etc
[00:54:24] <alex_joni> and usually there's a "boot other devices" option aswell, that one will try other Hdd's aswell
[00:54:37] <davidf> ok, I have drive 0 and drive 1 options but drive 1 was set to NONE, always. So maybe that'll do it.
[00:55:01] <alex_joni> I suspect so
[00:55:09] <alex_joni> davidf: it's getting kinda late here..
[00:55:20] <alex_joni> so probably by the time you get to test this I'll be asleep :D
[00:55:45] <alex_joni> if it's not working this way.. forget fiddling with jumpers and cables, and just do it like cradek suggested
[00:55:55] <davidf> Thanks, I'll let you know how it went. Don't feel you need to spend any more time on this. I appreciate the help. But I wont ask for more than this.
[00:55:57] <danex> alex_joni, do you have time for a m-code question?
[00:56:12] <alex_joni> davidf: you're free to ask
[00:56:23] <alex_joni> I was just excusing myself if I don't answer ;)
[00:56:29] <davidf> & youre free to decline. :)
[00:56:39] <alex_joni> but any questions are allowed & expected & appreciated in here ;)
[00:56:41] <alex_joni> danex: sure..
[00:56:51] <alex_joni> danex: probably I won't know it anyways :P
[00:57:00] <danex> when I use say M105, it remains active till turned off by M106
[00:57:17] <davidf> bye
[00:57:25] <alex_joni> davidf: see you later
[00:57:27] <danex> I need to turn it off with a switch ? any suggestions on how to write it?
[00:57:50] <alex_joni> danex: not sure I'm following
[00:58:13] <alex_joni> danex: maybe start by saying what you're trying to do :)
[00:58:19] <alex_joni> I know M10x are custom m-codes
[00:58:47] <danex> I use M105 to turn on a pump, and M106 to turn it off these work
[00:59:05] <alex_joni> ok.. and you wonder how to do it?
[00:59:17] <danex> I would like to turn it off with a switch
[00:59:49] <alex_joni> and you want emc's status to update when you use the switch?
[00:59:57] <danex> yes
[01:00:24] <alex_joni> I see.. that's a bit of a problem ;)
[01:00:55] <alex_joni> maybe make a little program (even bash script) that will loop, and check a HAL pin (a parport pin coming from the switch for example)
[01:01:23] <alex_joni> then have this program (or script) call bin/mdi with the M106 as a parameter
[01:01:39] <alex_joni> danex: what emc version?
[01:02:11] <danex> EMC2 V2.0.3
[01:03:18] <alex_joni> ok, in that version AXIS is separate, but you probably have it installed
[01:03:27] <danex> I am looking at the paraport for a status light, but I still have 8 inputs on my motenc
[01:03:29] <alex_joni> along with axis there's a small program called "mdi"
[01:03:38] <alex_joni> danex: motenc should be fine too
[01:03:57] <alex_joni> danex: now you could hijack the "mdi" program to send a M106 command to emc2
[01:04:11] <alex_joni> but I'm afraid I'm not 100% sure of the incantation ;)
[01:05:19] <alex_joni> probably something like: mdi path/to/your.ini "M106"
[01:05:31] <alex_joni> but if jepler is around he can probably enlighten you ;)
[01:07:27] <danex> It is the weekend and I am sure it is late for you, I will look into this more next week.
[01:07:35] <danex> Thanks,
[01:07:50] <alex_joni> danex: it's only late here.. guys in the US are probably having a good time ;)
[01:09:14] <danex> I have been to two weddings, 175 miles apart.
[01:09:48] <danex> The receptions are fun,
[01:11:31] <danex> It is about 3am there?
[01:12:18] <alex_joni> 4am ;)
[01:13:05] <danex> This is a holiday weekend for us, Monday off
[01:14:38] <danex> Tuesday I go to New York to inspect a machine for one of my customers
[01:14:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. nice
[01:15:11] <alex_joni> I was away last week at a customer, felt like holidays :D
[01:15:18] <alex_joni> had to do some trainings :)
[01:15:28] <danex> Do you get the chance to travel to the US?
[01:15:54] <alex_joni> not yet
[01:16:14] <danex> Training is fun, if you have good trainee
[01:16:33] <alex_joni> right..
[01:16:50] <alex_joni> danex: here's where I've been so far: http://www.frappr.com/alextravels
[01:17:08] <danex> Do the companies you go to have their own service departments?
[01:17:31] <alex_joni> danex: depends how big they are
[01:17:45] <alex_joni> we have very different customers (from 20 people, to 2000 people)
[01:17:50] <alex_joni> some do
[01:18:38] <danex> My main customer has in excess of 150 Asset equipment and only three men in their service department
[01:19:19] <danex> Just curious to see if anywhere else is the same
[01:19:44] <alex_joni> probably worse over here :D
[01:20:31] <alex_joni> anyways, did you get what I was meaning with the "mdi" program?
[01:20:50] <danex> looks like you travel a lot away from home
[01:21:15] <alex_joni> this is during a lot of years :)
[01:21:43] <danex> If i am correct, you are talking about the AXIS GUI ?
[01:22:15] <danex> or a smaller included program
[01:23:10] <alex_joni> there is a deb package called emc2-axis
[01:23:24] <alex_joni> it contains the GUI AXIS, along with a small program called 'mdi'
[01:23:35] <alex_joni> which basicly allows you to control emc2 from the shell
[01:23:51] <alex_joni> mdi configs/sim/axis.ini M106
[01:24:13] <alex_joni> that means: use the axis.ini (it needs to know how to talk to emc2), and send the M106 command
[01:24:37] <alex_joni> it will be sent as an MDI command, just as you would enter in the MDI edit box
[01:24:57] <danex> I am using Tkemc, I know that the Axis Gui is present as well in the machine
[01:25:42] <alex_joni> that's ok.. axis doesn't need to be running
[01:25:57] <alex_joni> the mdi program should be in /usr/bin/mdi
[01:26:10] <danex> and use the switch to trigger the send of the command?
[01:26:26] <alex_joni> small bash script that is running a loop
[01:26:34] <alex_joni> if the value is true.. send the mdi
[01:26:53] <alex_joni> bet cradek can help you on that script
[01:26:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed ..
[01:27:04] <alex_joni> night all
[01:27:11] <danex> have a good rest
[01:27:21] <alex_joni> thx
[01:27:27] <danex> Thanks for the help
[01:27:34] <danex> * danex is away: Away at the moment
[01:52:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/hal_manualtoolchange.py: just exit on KeyboardInterrupt (also 'halcmd unloadusr')
[03:32:50] <davidf> Yay!
[03:32:55] <davidf> cradek, u there?
[03:36:20] <davidf> Well, I got ubuntu on my 2 Gig drive with 500 Mb to spare by choosing the 'expert' install rather than the automatic. Chose to install with only a single partition, so I guess you were right about the swap partition.
[03:37:30] <davidf> It loaded all the files, too. :)
[03:38:53] <davidf> Thanks.
[03:41:19] <davidf> 'Nite
[09:50:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[10:15:46] <alex_joni> morning
[10:21:17] <robin_sz> morning
[10:21:38] <robin_sz> hey alex ... question for you .. welding question of course :)
[10:22:38] <robin_sz> We have a job that will repeat every month .. for some stainless steel boxes, to be welded up the corner. So thats 4 runs of 100mm or so.
[10:23:29] <robin_sz> I was thinking of mounting a TIG torch on a simple, single axis acutator, to take it along the weld, the box can of course be clamped up to bring the corner to the same place
[10:23:29] <alex_joni> robin_sz: how thick?
[10:23:33] <robin_sz> 1.2mm
[10:23:39] <robin_sz> 304
[10:24:07] <alex_joni> that can work.. what weld type?
[10:24:15] <robin_sz> we have ~200 month to do, thats 800 welds
[10:24:25] <robin_sz> dunno, whatever I choose :)
[10:24:38] <alex_joni> no, I mean how is it fitted together
[10:24:52] <robin_sz> however I design it
[10:24:55] <alex_joni> do you weld from the outside, or inside ?
[10:25:04] <robin_sz> outside I guess
[10:25:08] <alex_joni> if you do outside, you can probably go without filler
[10:25:17] <robin_sz> that would be nice
[10:25:19] <alex_joni> but you'll have the issues that it can bend
[10:25:33] <robin_sz> I can clamp it
[10:25:59] <alex_joni> basicly you want the two sheets at 90° angle
[10:26:02] <alex_joni> right?
[10:26:05] <robin_sz> right
[10:26:16] <alex_joni> make them touch at the bottom part
[10:26:23] <alex_joni> so you get a V shaped groove
[10:26:34] <robin_sz> we call that "corner to corner"
[10:26:41] <alex_joni> yeah, that's what I mean
[10:26:51] <alex_joni> then put it up so that the welding head is vertical
[10:26:59] <alex_joni> each of the sheets 45° sideways
[10:27:02] <robin_sz> right
[10:27:13] <robin_sz> thats waht I would have assumed so far
[10:27:22] <alex_joni> it will probably be the simplest weld you've ever done
[10:27:37] <alex_joni> just make sure you have a constant distance to the weldpiece
[10:27:40] <robin_sz> it will be the first automated weld I will have doen
[10:27:45] <alex_joni> and that it doesn't bend sideways
[10:28:03] <alex_joni> get a good speed control ration on the drive
[10:28:23] <robin_sz> I'll have a internal V piece, facing up
[10:28:23] <alex_joni> you'll be travelling pretty slow I presume (20-30 cm/min)
[10:28:34] <alex_joni> don't think you'll need an internal one
[10:28:40] <alex_joni> and it probably will cause you problem
[10:28:42] <robin_sz> with the top ground off the V
[10:28:50] <robin_sz> and two clamps on the oustide, no?
[10:28:58] <alex_joni> it will "steal" heat
[10:29:03] <robin_sz> oh,
[10:29:14] <robin_sz> say, it was atleast 10mm from the corner
[10:29:21] <alex_joni> then it's ok
[10:29:27] <robin_sz> right
[10:29:36] <alex_joni> but not closer, because you won't have repetitive results
[10:29:37] <robin_sz> its position that I want to be perfect everytime
[10:29:48] <alex_joni> it starts to heat up, and the part will behave differently
[10:29:58] <alex_joni> make it brass or copper
[10:30:00] <robin_sz> insulated pads maybe on the support?
[10:30:03] <alex_joni> so it can properly cool
[10:30:25] <alex_joni> edges of stainless, so you don't alter the piece
[10:30:30] <alex_joni> and the core of brass or copper
[10:30:39] <robin_sz> right
[10:30:44] <alex_joni> maybe even with a pipe through it to cool it down
[10:30:47] <alex_joni> if you weld lots of them
[10:30:57] <robin_sz> well, lets see
[10:31:01] <robin_sz> 100mm of weld
[10:31:04] <robin_sz> 20 seconds
[10:31:04] <alex_joni> not much current on the weld (50-60A should be enough)
[10:31:22] <robin_sz> say 40 seconds with change over to next corners
[10:31:32] <robin_sz> 160 seconds per box
[10:31:37] <alex_joni> but you need to get a system to have the electrode always in the same length and angle ;)
[10:31:43] <alex_joni> gotta run to lunch.. bbl
[10:31:45] <robin_sz> k
[10:32:23] <robin_sz> 3 minutes per box
[10:33:00] <robin_sz> 20 boxes an hour ... 1 day = 160 boxes
[10:33:22] <robin_sz> OK, so 100 boxes due to tea breaks, other stuff, whatever
[10:34:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz leaves some questions for answering later
[10:34:37] <robin_sz> Can TIG bots do wire feed ?
[10:54:59] <acemi> there is a typo problem in emc2/src/configure and configure.in a variable has two forms as ESPTOPDF and EPSTOPDF
[11:29:29] <alex_joni> robin_sz: usually they do
[11:29:38] <alex_joni> and you can build one yourself _easily_
[11:30:02] <alex_joni> acemi: thanks for spotting it, I'll look into it soon
[11:30:25] <acemi> np
[11:31:29] <alex_joni> acemi: you are right, it seems very probable that it will cause documentation not to be built
[11:32:29] <alex_joni> robin_sz: http://www.robcon.ro/emc/Resize%20of%20HPIM2892.JPG
[11:38:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure.in configure): typo spotted, thanks go to acemi
[11:43:47] <robin_sz> alex_joni, so, you can use a standard MIG feed to somehow feed wire for a TIG?
[11:45:55] <robin_sz> maybe even use a MIG gun (without the shroud) as a feeder?
[11:48:17] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I used a standard MIG feed, but changed it a bit
[11:48:27] <robin_sz> I can see
[11:48:30] <alex_joni> if you look at that picture you'll see a G340 on the top left
[11:48:36] <robin_sz> indeed
[11:48:48] <alex_joni> beneath it there's an encoder fitted to the wire
[11:48:58] <robin_sz> right
[11:49:03] <alex_joni> with a spare 2 roll drive, but instead of the motor there's an encoder
[11:49:10] <robin_sz> I see
[11:49:18] <alex_joni> top right, there's a small board with a 555 ;)
[11:49:26] <alex_joni> and a big cap for a smooth ramping at the beginning
[11:49:59] <robin_sz> very simple
[11:49:59] <alex_joni> that's about it, a pot at the front of the machine, and you'll be able to feed the wire _very_ precisely
[11:50:16] <alex_joni> even at very low speeds (thanks to the gecko, and a 2500 cpr encoder)
[11:50:36] <robin_sz> of course, you could just control the feed from EMC if you were already using EMC to control the torch axis
[11:50:42] <alex_joni> of course ;)
[11:50:57] <alex_joni> but this was for another application.. this was fitted on a large machine that welds tubes
[11:51:13] <alex_joni> anyways, you simply run the wire into the tig arc
[11:51:22] <alex_joni> you need to have a proper angle though
[11:51:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[11:51:27] <robin_sz> uh huh
[11:51:40] <alex_joni> so usually something like 20-30° from the workpiece up
[11:51:51] <robin_sz> using a mig gun to feed wire seems a nice idea
[11:51:54] <alex_joni> it will come very much from the side
[11:52:00] <alex_joni> mig gun is a bit big
[11:52:06] <alex_joni> I used only the current tip
[11:52:09] <robin_sz> without the shroud
[11:52:22] <robin_sz> yeah .. just the tip on the swan neck
[11:52:26] <alex_joni> and fitted the bowden (or liner, the arc spiral) to it using a custom part
[11:52:36] <robin_sz> uh huh
[11:52:40] <alex_joni> it's way smaller than a swan neck
[11:53:00] <robin_sz> access here is not an issue I think
[11:53:32] <robin_sz> anyway, if I can weld boxes at 100/day it is profitable
[11:54:29] <alex_joni> that's 100 x 4 x 100mm ?
[11:54:32] <robin_sz> yeah
[11:54:35] <alex_joni> 40m
[11:54:48] <alex_joni> at 20 cm/min you get 200 minutes arc time
[11:54:57] <alex_joni> + 80% handling
[11:55:02] <robin_sz> exactly
[11:55:08] <alex_joni> 6 hours
[11:55:10] <alex_joni> roughly
[11:55:18] <robin_sz> handling will be the biggest part
[11:55:24] <robin_sz> and changing tungstens
[11:55:28] <robin_sz> and tea breaks
[11:55:35] <alex_joni> yeah, tea breaks :D
[11:55:38] <robin_sz> and ... etc etc etc
[11:55:42] <alex_joni> tungsten will be fast
[11:55:48] <alex_joni> if you work with 2 at least
[11:55:58] <alex_joni> build yourself a jig to sharpen it
[11:56:08] <alex_joni> you will _always_ want the same angle
[11:56:17] <robin_sz> I was thinking of buying a proper tungsten grinder
[11:56:24] <alex_joni> even better
[11:56:28] <robin_sz> with dust catcher
[11:56:52] <alex_joni> well.. if it's thorium + tungsten .. not fun to play with
[11:57:00] <robin_sz> indeed
[11:57:08] <robin_sz> or cerium
[11:57:28] <alex_joni> yeap.. although I usually use the red ended ones
[11:57:42] <robin_sz> for steel, thorium or cerium work well
[11:57:54] <robin_sz> cerium will work for alloy or steel
[11:58:57] <robin_sz> so, you think a 1.2mm box corner is not a problem for a simple tig axis ?
[11:59:20] <robin_sz> just normal linear motion, no weave or stop-start motion?
[11:59:28] <alex_joni> just linear
[11:59:37] <alex_joni> although the 90 degree angle makes me think a bit
[11:59:45] <alex_joni> might be better if you get some filler wire
[11:59:52] <alex_joni> but no weave necessary
[12:00:15] <robin_sz> I guess even if the operator feeds the wire by hand, its still quicker than manula tig
[12:00:28] <alex_joni> you _might_ get away by fitting a wire in the place to be welded
[12:00:39] <alex_joni> just lay it there, clamp it down
[12:00:46] <alex_joni> or only bend the ends
[12:01:08] <alex_joni> needs a bit of fiddling till you get the exact right diameter
[12:01:22] <robin_sz> doesnt have to be corner to corner
[12:01:29] <robin_sz> could be overlap
[12:01:40] <robin_sz> or butt joint
[12:01:50] <alex_joni> overlap is tricky to get repetitive
[12:01:59] <alex_joni> and you probably need to tilt the head a bit
[12:02:11] <alex_joni> I'd go with corner to corner as the first try
[12:02:15] <robin_sz> k
[12:02:29] <robin_sz> well, thats encouraging
[12:02:34] <alex_joni> actually the best way would be to bevel the two plates ;)
[12:02:43] <robin_sz> at 1.2mm?
[12:02:56] <robin_sz> thsi is thin stuff :)
[12:02:57] <alex_joni> yeah, should go fast ;)
[12:03:10] <alex_joni> I'm probably thinking for bigger stuff
[12:03:21] <robin_sz> i think it will be 4 times quicker than plain manual tig
[12:03:32] <robin_sz> not the actual weld speed but the process speed.
[12:03:33] <alex_joni> I don't ;)
[12:03:37] <alex_joni> oh.. right
[12:03:47] <robin_sz> the actual weld will be the same
[12:03:49] <alex_joni> I'd aim for 4 times better / nicer welds
[12:04:02] <robin_sz> butthey should get through LOTS more boxes in a day
[12:04:15] <robin_sz> nicer welds?
[12:04:22] <alex_joni> yeah, nicer aspect
[12:04:28] <robin_sz> hmm
[12:04:31] <alex_joni> they will look more constant
[12:04:44] <robin_sz> they get linished and grained after anyway
[12:04:53] <alex_joni> even a good manual welder has some moments...
[12:05:03] <robin_sz> its brushed stainless, and needs to be looking like its one piece when done
[12:05:18] <alex_joni> oh.. ok..
[12:05:25] <alex_joni> anyways.. here's a thought
[12:05:32] <alex_joni> how about doing more than one at once?
[12:05:39] <alex_joni> have a 500 mm axis
[12:05:45] <alex_joni> put 5 pieces, weld them in one go
[12:05:56] <robin_sz> hmmm
[12:06:11] <robin_sz> I was thinking of two "stations" on the axis
[12:06:16] <robin_sz> on welding, one changing
[12:06:30] <alex_joni> right, that also makes sense
[12:06:49] <alex_joni> but only if the time to weld is similar to the time to change
[12:06:50] <robin_sz> set it on automatic and then the operator has to work at the machines speed :)
[12:07:21] <alex_joni> I have some robots which have 2 stations, the program takes about 4-5 hours to finish, and to place a new part takes 15-20 minutes
[12:07:31] <robin_sz> heh
[12:07:35] <alex_joni> not exactly the best economic solution ;)
[12:07:47] <robin_sz> this would be nice with a robot, maybe I consider that again
[12:07:49] <alex_joni> probably 100k+ for the second station could have been saved
[12:08:16] <alex_joni> I think only for this application you can set up a welding automat which performs better than a robot
[12:08:24] <robin_sz> right
[12:08:48] <alex_joni> screw driven head, only one axis.. can't beat that
[12:09:16] <alex_joni> and for TIG it's all about tiny increments while tweaking
[12:09:30] <alex_joni> a bit faster or slower makes a lot of difference
[12:09:31] <robin_sz> right
[12:09:36] <alex_joni> same for distance to the workpiece
[12:09:40] <alex_joni> same for current
[12:09:44] <alex_joni> same for filler
[12:10:02] <alex_joni> MIG is very tolerant ;) TIG isn't
[12:10:08] <robin_sz> yeah
[12:10:24] <alex_joni> and if you can afford the buck.. I'd look for a microplasma :D
[12:10:34] <robin_sz> heh, right
[12:10:45] <robin_sz> do they weld stainless?
[12:11:21] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/ro/prod/35/GL_80_I-H.html
[12:11:25] <alex_joni> it's just like TIG
[12:12:18] <alex_joni> only a nicer arc, and you don't need to sharpen electrodes :D
[12:15:50] <alex_joni> robin_sz: http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/products/dualarc80.htm
[12:16:20] <robin_sz> http://www.westermans.com/product.asp?UID=10227
[12:17:26] <alex_joni> secheron is a good company
[12:17:36] <alex_joni> although I like the other unit better for 2 reasons
[12:17:52] <alex_joni> 1. I got to test it ;) 2. it also does TIG, 3. it's smaller
[12:19:03] <alex_joni> at 0.1Amps you can weld .2 mm sheets or less ;)
[12:19:23] <alex_joni> even resistor wires, or die connections :D
[12:19:36] <alex_joni> but it's about 6k new
[12:22:09] <alex_joni> http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_3/jk7.html
[12:25:04] <alex_joni> these guys might have something interesting: http://www.weldlogic.co.uk/level%202/Powerpage.htm
[12:31:01] <robin_sz> wow
[12:31:05] <robin_sz> expensive bit of kit
[12:33:26] <alex_joni> they also have a nice linear axis :D
[12:33:34] <alex_joni> http://www.weldlogic.co.uk/Brochures/Long.%20seamer%20PLS.pdf
[13:20:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py:
[13:20:30] <CIA-8> for now, make G38.2 appear in the preview plot just like G1
[13:20:30] <CIA-8> when calculating extents, consider the end-points as well as start-points.
[13:20:30] <CIA-8> Otherwise a program like G0 X0Y0Z1 / G1 Z0 F8 / M2 will not be right.
[13:20:31] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc:
[13:20:34] <CIA-8> for now, make G38.2 appear in the preview plot just like G1
[13:20:36] <CIA-8> when calculating extents, consider the end-points as well as start-points.
[13:20:38] <CIA-8> Otherwise a program like G0 X0Y0Z1 / G1 Z0 F8 / M2 will not be right.
[13:47:46] <S_L_S> Selamun Ãleykûm
[13:49:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc:
[13:49:14] <CIA-8> improper handling of INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH meant that loading the preview
[13:49:14] <CIA-8> would stop after the first 'g38.2' probe
[14:02:55] <robin_sz> ahh ITW-Miller, nice welders, but can't put together a webshite to save their lives
[14:03:04] <robin_sz> oops, website.
[14:03:17] <robin_sz> actually, no, maybe I was right first time ;)
[15:09:57] <jepler> but does it run emc? http://hackedgadgets.com/2006/09/03/homemade-flight-simulator/
[15:15:09] <acemi> \usepackage ...{hyperref} line in .lyx documents prevents to build .pdf document with lyx-qt. so, emc2/head cann't be build with document
[15:15:58] <acemi> without this line, lyn-qt can convert to pdf
[15:16:06] <jepler> acemi: I'm not sure what to say, except that it does work on my ubuntu machine
[15:16:15] <jepler> probably there's some missing configure test that would detect what's missing on your system
[15:16:46] <jepler> tetex-extra: usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/hyperref/hyperref.sty
[15:16:49] <acemi> my machine is debian, maybe because of lyn version
[15:16:54] <acemi> lyx
[15:17:08] <jepler> if you can figure out what it is I'll try to write a configure test for it...
[15:18:01] <acemi> can emc2/HEAD be build with document in Ubuntu?
[15:18:12] <rayh> Our docs are all 1.3.6
[15:18:39] <rayh> the newer 1.4.x requires a conversion of the files.
[15:19:10] <jepler> acemi: yes. I just rebuilt one of the PDFs (Master_Integrator) to make sure.
[15:19:42] <acemi> ok, then i'll lyx from the bacports
[15:19:48] <acemi> ok, then i'll install lyx from the bacports
[15:20:54] <jepler> acemi: does this .tex file give an error when you try to process it with 'latex' or 'pdflatex'?
[15:20:57] <jepler> \documentclass{book}
[15:21:00] <jepler> \usepackage{hyperref}
[15:21:02] <jepler> \begin{document}x\end{document}
[15:21:54] <rayh> Someone did build a 1.4.1 release for ubuntu but it isn't in the repositories yet.
[15:21:59] <acemi> how can I try? can you give me the command
[15:22:03] <rayh> and now lyx just released 1.4.2
[15:22:22] <jepler> acemi: put those 3 lines in 'test.tex' and run: pdflatex test.tex
[15:22:56] <jepler> you should look for a sarge package that has hyperref.sty
[15:25:08] <acemi> i think it's in tetex-extra
[15:26:33] <acemi> pdflatex works
[15:26:44] <jepler> before you install tetex-extra?
[15:27:22] <acemi> no, i have tetex-extra
[15:27:34] <acemi> i installed it with lyx
[15:27:39] <jepler> oh
[15:28:07] <jepler> I have to go -- let me know if you can figure anything out .. otherwise, I guess just --disable-build-documentation
[15:28:18] <jepler> * jepler 's laptop battery is at 0 minutes
[16:08:41] <acemi> jepler: after installing lyx and latex2html from sarge-backports, I can build emc2/head with documents without problem in Debian Sarge
[16:15:05] <jepler> acemi: ok -- is there a version number or other configuration check I should add?
[16:15:50] <acemi> no need
[16:16:42] <jepler> documentation?
[16:17:09] <acemi> i don't understand what you ask
[16:17:22] <acemi> do ask the version number of lyx
[16:17:32] <acemi> do you ask the version number of lyx
[16:20:47] <jepler> is there something I can write in the documentation (e.g., the wiki) to help the next person on debian who wants to build the docs?
[16:21:57] <acemi> i use debian sarge, but not default kernel. I install kernel from BDI repo
[16:22:18] <acemi> 2.6.16 kernel has some problem with other program in Sarge
[16:22:54] <acemi> and i install lyn ans latex2html from sarge-baskports
[16:23:06] <acemi> sarge-backports
[16:24:37] <acemi> udev needs a rules file to use rtai_shm, the file contains this line:
[16:24:42] <acemi> KERNEL="RTAI_SHM", SYMLINK="rtai_shm", MODE="0666"
[16:24:58] <acemi> thats all
[16:25:46] <alex_joni> acemi: we have the same line on Ubuntu, and IMNSHO that should be taken care by the OS, or the rtai package
[16:27:04] <acemi> this note is for users who use Debian
[16:27:39] <alex_joni> acemi: indeed, and it's valuable for them
[16:27:53] <alex_joni> so maybe it would be nice of you to put it into the wiki ?
[16:28:22] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2
[16:28:33] <alex_joni> or maybe you have a newer BDI ?
[16:29:07] <acemi> but BDI and Sarge a bit diffrent. maybe it's better to write a new page for Debian
[16:29:28] <jepler> yes, a new page would be good
[16:29:39] <acemi> for example there is no udev in BDI
[16:29:50] <alex_joni> acemi: last time I checked there was
[16:30:14] <acemi> i saw Paul Corner note about udev
[16:30:31] <alex_joni> yeah, his solutions is "hackish" at best
[16:30:41] <alex_joni> s/solutions/solution/
[16:30:55] <alex_joni> maybe he fixed it properly in the meantime
[16:32:01] <alex_joni> but the older BDI runscripts would just check if there's a /dev/rtai_shm and create it otherwise
[16:35:01] <jepler> (the emc2 script can't do that since it does not run as root)
[16:35:42] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/gridprobe.ngc: this is a sample program to probe in a rectangular grid
[16:35:42] <alex_joni> jepler: I agree, and it shouldn't do that
[16:35:57] <alex_joni> jepler: you got it faster done than me :((
[16:36:08] <jepler> oh were you working on it too?
[16:36:13] <alex_joni> I just started ;)
[16:36:18] <jepler> you said you didn't know enough O-words
[16:36:20] <alex_joni> but I worked on the joomla before
[16:36:24] <alex_joni> I was getting there
[16:36:26] <alex_joni> :D
[16:36:29] <alex_joni> thanks for doing it
[16:37:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/gridprobe.ngc: no, really, I wanted inches
[16:37:25] <alex_joni> hmmm.. may I say something?
[16:37:37] <jepler> go ahead
[16:37:50] <alex_joni> the preview shows probes only on the first line
[16:38:03] <alex_joni> the second and third line have only probes at the beginning and at the end
[16:39:06] <jepler> oh there's another probing preview fix I haven't checked in yet
[16:39:25] <jepler> here's what I get: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gridprobe.png
[16:39:42] <alex_joni> yeah, that's what I expected
[16:40:04] <acemi> now, can we use emc2 without sudo?
[16:40:09] <alex_joni> acemi: yes
[16:40:17] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/gcodemodule.cc:
[16:40:17] <CIA-8> keep track of our position, otherwise the interpreter thinks every probe
[16:40:17] <CIA-8> has landed us at the origin again
[16:40:24] <acemi> good
[16:40:29] <alex_joni> there is a sudo make setuid at the end of the build process you need to enter
[16:40:41] <alex_joni> this makes some files setuid root
[16:40:45] <jepler> ohe file
[16:40:48] <alex_joni> one
[16:41:04] <jepler> alex_joni: please cvs update and see if it previews right this time...
[16:43:37] <robin_sz> coo. those flightsim boys are serious
[16:43:50] <robin_sz> well. either serious or crazy ...
[16:43:58] <alex_joni> seriously crazy
[16:44:22] <robin_sz> when you start building pump rooms for the hydraulics, you have gone beyond normal
[16:44:57] <robin_sz> putting some pedals under your desk is one thing ... maybe even bying a cockpit seat ...
[16:45:18] <robin_sz> but sawing the entire front end off a scrap 747 and putting it in your garage ..
[16:45:44] <alex_joni> jepler: looks great now
[16:45:45] <SWPadnos> you mean building a garage tall enough, then sawing off the front of a 747 and putting it in the new building ...
[16:45:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/common/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/code/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/install/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:47] <jepler> alex_joni: good
[16:45:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:45:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/.cvsignore: add ignores for files and directories created by html documentation building
[16:47:11] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/gridprobe.ngc: minor change to return to initial position
[16:47:27] <alex_joni> bbl..
[17:21:25] <dmessier> Hi all... ; )
[17:21:52] <robin_sz> hmmm, I think I might sell my children on eBay
[17:22:08] <robin_sz> do they have a section for "medical experiments" ?
[17:22:22] <dmessier> sell mine too... plz... at least the oldest
[17:23:29] <dmessier> iwas gonna offer hin a ticket to china.. see if he could hook up in one of those chinese prisons where they sell body parts...
[17:24:10] <dmessier> whats your beef Robin??
[17:31:56] <robin_sz> sigh ... I think I should have invested in an electric cattle prod much earlier inthe training process
[17:33:12] <jepler> alex_joni: good catch on returning to Z#7 but I don't know if it's important to return to the XY origin .. maybe it is
[17:34:52] <dmessier> the get resistent to it and smole when they hit their friends with it
[17:35:00] <dmessier> smile
[17:35:20] <dmessier> it turns nto a toy..
[18:25:16] <alex_joni> jepler: probably not important .. but it doesn't hurt
[18:45:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> when's 2.1.0 coming out?
[18:45:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and when is feature freeze?
[18:45:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (if you have any idea)
[18:46:33] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: check sourceforge.net/projects/emc then go to tasks
[18:46:52] <jepler> yeah but I wouldn't believe any of that stuff
[18:47:02] <alex_joni> lol.. probably so
[18:47:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha
[18:47:08] <alex_joni> but at least that's some indication ;)
[18:47:19] <jepler> ooh maybe this one can be marked as complete: http://sourceforge.net/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=127931&group_id=6744&group_project_id=46285
[18:47:43] <alex_joni> jepler: indeed.. but I wasn't sure if you didn't plan anything else for that :D
[18:47:58] <alex_joni> oh-oh
[18:48:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sees jepler isn't even in the list of people to assign tasks too
[18:48:22] <alex_joni> now _THAT_ must get changed
[18:48:33] <jepler> oh no
[18:52:44] <alex_joni> jepler: I assigned that task to you.. you may now close it :D
[18:55:46] <alex_joni> interesting.. we had 48 downloads of EMC last week, 219 downloads of emc2
[18:56:36] <alex_joni> roughly a 1000 downloads of emc2 packages / month
[19:02:38] <danex> * danex is back.
[19:02:46] <danex> Hello all
[19:03:47] <alex_joni> hello
[19:06:27] <danex> I think that a deserted island for the children would be a good idea, I would add my oldest as well
[19:06:48] <SWPadnos> bad idea - remember Lord of The Flies"
[19:07:09] <danex> I did not see that movie
[19:07:16] <SWPadnos> read the book ;)
[19:07:18] <danex> I remember the title though
[19:07:35] <danex> I will pick that one up
[19:08:04] <SWPadnos> it's a common reading assignment in high school English classes, but it's still a good book
[19:08:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: they wrote a book after the movie?
[19:08:28] <SWPadnos> hardly
[19:08:33] <alex_joni> j/k
[19:08:47] <SWPadnos> I wonder how different it would be ;)
[19:08:56] <SWPadnos> (like Starship Troopers)
[19:08:57] <alex_joni> probably crappy
[19:09:50] <danex> The sequel to Starship Troopers was bad
[19:10:09] <SWPadnos> the original book (Starship Troopers) was great, the movie stunk, and I hope they never did a "from the movie" version
[19:10:17] <SWPadnos> of the book
[19:10:39] <danex> Ah another reading assignment
[19:10:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:11:03] <SWPadnos> I can give you a list of 300 or so of the best Sci-Fi books (IMO)
[19:11:12] <SWPadnos> maybe more, if I look at the bookshelf ;)
[19:11:29] <alex_joni> h2g2 rules ;)
[19:11:41] <SWPadnos> how was the movie? (or have you seen it?)
[19:11:53] <alex_joni> didn't see the movie.. read the first 3 books :(
[19:12:01] <alex_joni> missing the rest for now :)
[19:12:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:12:17] <danex> h2g2?
[19:12:19] <SWPadnos> don't forget "Zaphod Plays It Safe"
[19:12:27] <SWPadnos> Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
[19:13:47] <danex> There was a British Mini series of Hitchhikers a few years back
[19:14:01] <SWPadnos> many years ago also - a radio series
[19:14:13] <alex_joni> 76 or 77 I think
[19:14:18] <alex_joni> lots on this on wikipedia ;)
[19:14:36] <SWPadnos> heh - who needs wikipedia for this stuff ;)
[19:14:47] <alex_joni> ;)
[19:15:07] <SWPadnos> hey - so here's a weird computer hardware problem:
[19:15:09] <danex> Those who can not remember the 8 track
[19:15:46] <SWPadnos> I have a SuperMicro H8DCE motherboard, adn a SuperMicro case with 645W power supply
[19:16:36] <SWPadnos> I bought a nice new PC Power & Cooling power supply, rated at 650W or something - all rails have higher limits than the OEM supply in the SM case, except for the standby current (3A on the PCPC, 4A on the SM)
[19:16:59] <SWPadnos> I can't boot the machine when my SIIG PCIe firewire card is plugged in, if I use the PCPC power supply
[19:17:10] <SWPadnos> it boots fine with the SM supply
[19:17:36] <SWPadnos> I can plug in the card while powered, and it's detected and the system boots
[19:17:44] <SWPadnos> (PCIe is supposed to be hot-pluggable, I think)
[19:18:02] <SWPadnos> strange, no?
[19:19:49] <danex> Does seem strange
[19:20:26] <SWPadnos> of course, I don't like the SM supply because it always runs the cooling fan (even powered off, but plugged in)
[19:20:32] <SWPadnos> and it's loud
[19:20:44] <alex_joni> eeek.. even powered off ?
[19:21:03] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's a 4A (20W) supply in standby mode, and they like to have active cooling on that
[19:21:21] <SWPadnos> it's a server case that's rackmountable, so it makes sense
[19:22:21] <tomp> maybe check the rails at an empty pci slot during the wont boot symptom, mayb be informative
[19:22:48] <SWPadnos> yeah - I thought about that - jus thaven't gotten to it yet
[19:23:00] <SWPadnos> it's all PCI express, not PCI (there are slots, but none in use)
[19:23:01] <tomp> try to look at the simplest case
[19:23:28] <SWPadnos> it's stiiing on standoffs on a cardboard box right now - nothing but video and somethimes the firewire card are plugged in (and a keyboard, of course)
[19:23:32] <SWPadnos> sitting
[19:24:40] <SWPadnos> it doesn't even initialize video when it won't boot - the only way I know it hasn't hung is that the keyboard lights flash every 15 seconds or so, as it reboots and reinitializes the keyboard
[19:25:33] <SWPadnos> it's really weird that I can insert the firewire card while it's powered up, and the next reboot cycle, it boots OK (and it works from then on, even with a hardware reset, until it's powered off)
[19:26:23] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: maybe it's transients?
[19:26:32] <SWPadnos> could be
[19:26:38] <alex_joni> if it and the other things in there don't generate it at once..
[19:27:05] <SWPadnos> I actually tried it with a couple of different supplies, inlcuding a 750W PCPC model
[19:27:11] <tomp> i've had low voltage / wont boot / video problems ( intermittent ), I 'unload' the system a bit to make it work ( unplug scanners, unneccesary hdwr )
[19:27:36] <tomp> when i chgd the p/s (upped the capacities) it didnt help
[19:28:00] <SWPadnos> I could try pulling out a couple gig of memory, but I doubt it would help
[19:28:14] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it would help to delay the power good signal for a little bit
[19:29:59] <SWPadnos> the other real pisser is that I have a friend with two of these motherboards, and he's got one system totally loaded (higher power video card, PCIe firewire, 3 PCI cards, etc), and the one he built works great with teh PCPower&Cooling supply
[19:31:10] <alex_joni> faulty PSU ?
[19:31:18] <SWPadnos> don;t think so - I tried two of them
[19:31:26] <danex> * danex is away: Away at the moment
[19:31:29] <SWPadnos> different models (one 610, the other a 750)
[19:36:35] <tomp> Can I ask a few q's about motion?
[19:36:46] <tomp> during a single servo period, there might be 3 voltages to 3 joint amplifiers, are they constant during that period?
[19:37:17] <SWPadnos> yep - they're updated once per servo period
[19:37:30] <tomp> and during a single trajectory period, is there a single position decided?
[19:38:01] <SWPadnos> I believe so
[19:38:15] <tomp> does that single position relate to a 'vector' that becomes 3 proportionate voltages to 3 joint amplifiers?
[19:38:21] <SWPadnos> you basically get 1000 position/velocity updates per second (by default)
[19:38:58] <alex_joni> actually 8 of them at once max
[19:39:03] <SWPadnos> the next position is decided, based on the commanded move and the machine capabilities (accel and max_vel)
[19:39:18] <tomp> yes, 1khz servo update freq(per joint )
[19:39:22] <SWPadnos> so an appropriate vel is chosen based on the limitations
[19:39:30] <SWPadnos> you can increase that rate if you like
[19:39:33] <tomp> I'm trying to follow during a single trajectory
[19:40:21] <tomp> so, during a single trajectory, which has 10 servo updates, there is only linear interpolation ( there was a single vector for the entrie trajectory) ??
[19:41:11] <SWPadnos> interpolation of velocity or position?
[19:41:40] <tomp> position ( i dont see velocity changing if we're on the 'top of the acc ramp' )
[19:42:17] <SWPadnos> I think the position is a curve, but the acceleration profile is a trapezoid (ish)
[19:43:05] <SWPadnos> oops - accel is constant, and discontunuous (ie, it snaps from 0 to some value, then back to 0 during a move)
[19:43:19] <tomp> could you explain 'position is a curve'? the interpolation of the position?
[19:43:31] <SWPadnos> vel will be a more-or-less trapezoidal profile
[19:43:50] <SWPadnos> well, at time 0, assume position = velocity = accel = 9
[19:43:57] <SWPadnos> no, = 0 :)
[19:44:05] <SWPadnos> so we have a machine at rest
[19:44:06] <tomp> yep
[19:44:19] <SWPadnos> you command a move, so the TP decides to accelerate a joint
[19:44:44] <tomp> ok
[19:44:57] <SWPadnos> the accel goes from 0 to some_value in a single servo period (ie, it was 0, but as soon as it's noticed that some accel is needed, it goes to a nonzero value)
[19:45:22] <tomp> yep, we on the ramp up to desired velocity, ok
[19:45:24] <SWPadnos> brb - phone
[19:45:57] <tomp> (and a loooong ways from the destination commanded)
[20:06:55] <tomp> brb grabbing tools from car
[20:08:32] <tomp> back
[20:29:20] <SWPadnos> ok - back
[20:29:43] <tomp> hiya
[20:29:47] <SWPadnos> howdy
[20:30:04] <tomp> we acceler8ng right now
[20:30:19] <SWPadnos> I was thinking about this a little, and I think what I was about to describe would be true for torque mode, but not necessarily fro velocity mode
[20:31:18] <tomp> ok, but i was trying to understand after acc was done, during a single traj cycle , why there were 10 servo cycles , what can change?
[20:31:33] <SWPadnos> anyway - when accelerating, the position is the time integral of the velocity, which is itself the time integral of acceleration, so the resulting position should be a square-law curve
[20:31:39] <SWPadnos> ah
[20:32:02] <SWPadnos> I think most sample configs are now using a 1:1 traj:servo ratio
[20:32:36] <SWPadnos> I think the same question came up - ie, why don't we just figure out a new position every servo cycle?
[20:32:56] <SWPadnos> with today's processors, it's not really that demanding
[20:35:33] <tomp> ok, that's simpler. Can I enforce a new traj position at will? ( say I wanna go someplace now & get back to interp'd posn later )?
[20:35:52] <SWPadnos> sort of
[20:36:32] <SWPadnos> there are some configs (somewhere) that inject some extra data into the position output from the motion controller, and subtract it off the feedback (so motion doesn't give a following error)
[20:37:02] <SWPadnos> there was a discussion on the user list (I think) talking about "weaving" for a welding robot
[20:38:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, that and dallur? is using that method for cnc plasma cutting
[20:38:06] <tomp> I remember, the flood welding/weaving talks. But if we command a new posn why would there be FE?
[20:38:22] <alex_joni> to compensate height based on sheet distance
[20:38:28] <SWPadnos> because you're commanding after the motion controller (in HAL) in those setups
[20:39:01] <SWPadnos> hmm - Alex, was there a "compensation" input added to the motion controller?
[20:39:08] <alex_joni> nope, not that I know
[20:39:15] <alex_joni> not sure how good that would do
[20:39:21] <SWPadnos> I thought there was something done to account for the position display being wrong
[20:39:42] <alex_joni> not that I know
[20:39:46] <SWPadnos> ie, position shows no movement, but the compensation HAL blocks are actually causing motion
[20:39:53] <SWPadnos> ok. maybe it was discussed (or not ;) )
[20:41:58] <tomp> hmmm, so FE calcs know where we 'should be' even if we insert a new posn (traj). any ideas on how to ignore FE ( not just open up tolerances) ?
[20:42:42] <tomp> not ignore, how to not even calc FE or respect it.
[20:42:51] <SWPadnos> motion (the TP) outputs a desired position for each axis, and gets back an actual position. the difference is FE, and that's all done in the motion controller
[20:43:18] <tomp> right ... where you are - where i said = FE... right
[20:43:27] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure you can tell the motion controller to do anything while it's running a program in auto mode
[20:43:35] <SWPadnos> yes - actual - desired = FE
[20:43:57] <SWPadnos> so the way that's been handled is to add something to the desired position output from the TP
[20:44:05] <SWPadnos> before it gets to the PID and drivers
[20:44:16] <tomp> but, i'd like to do real dynamic control, and that means FE is is right out, cuz a process determines posn, not time, posn or velocity
[20:44:37] <SWPadnos> but when you do that, if you don't subtract the same amount from the feedback position, the TP will think the axis has drifted
[20:44:56] <SWPadnos> sure - for plasma/waterjet/EDM
[20:45:00] <SWPadnos> or similar
[20:45:31] <tomp> there is a relation between where i was and where i should be now, but it isnt time/posn_err/velocity dependant.
[20:45:51] <SWPadnos> the HAL blocks that "add in an offset" run in realtime, so you can have dynamic control that way
[20:46:52] <tomp> will the morion be forward and bkwrd along the path during execution od a single servo cycle? else not dynamic, merely adaptive.\
[20:47:00] <tomp> motion
[20:47:12] <SWPadnos> ah - no, it won't
[20:47:38] <tomp> where can i look?
[20:47:59] <SWPadnos> unless you run the servo thread faster than the traj thread, and make sure the HAL blocks that do the offsetting run in the faster thread
[20:48:09] <tomp> the pulley on the screw must 'jitter' else it aint dynamic :-(
[20:48:17] <SWPadnos> one sec - let me look
[20:48:29] <SWPadnos> is the weave thing close enough to help you?
[20:49:08] <tomp> dunno, didnt try it, sounded similar, but what happens when it ends one gcode into another, is there a wall?
[20:49:16] <SWPadnos> nope
[20:49:33] <SWPadnos> the TP goes merrily along, and the offsets are calculated independently and added in all the time
[20:49:41] <tomp> i can 'weave back into the preceding gcode line? (hope I hope I hope I hope )
[20:49:47] <SWPadnos> nope
[20:49:53] <SWPadnos> this is independent of G-code
[20:50:05] <SWPadnos> there's no "reverse execution" yet :(
[20:50:16] <SWPadnos> this is for EDM, I'm assuming
[20:50:28] <tomp> yep, ( all I do )
[20:50:56] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/dallur-thc/
[20:51:21] <SWPadnos> that's the plasma config, with full THC
[20:51:52] <SWPadnos> it doesn't go backwards, and I'm not sure it even does anything to the position commands/feedback, but it does show some real-time control of motion from HAL
[20:52:16] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: for EDM I think the adaptive feed override is all needed ;)
[20:52:16] <SWPadnos> I don't think Colin Wildsmith ever posted his weaving config (I'm not sure)
[20:52:28] <alex_joni> maybe that one can be made to go negative for backwards movement
[20:52:31] <SWPadnos> yep, but it does show a little bit about connecting up HAL stuff to motion
[20:52:39] <alex_joni> right..
[20:52:40] <SWPadnos> heh - not yet, I think
[20:53:22] <SWPadnos> I wonder what would happen to the TP equations if a negative time difference were passed in
[20:53:38] <tomp> the THC may just 'seek' an analog equality ( aka servo )
[20:54:29] <SWPadnos> actually, adaptive feed override is your first line of defense for EDM - you can slow the motion down if you can detect an impending short
[20:54:49] <SWPadnos> in some cases, you may be able to prevent an event that would require backing up
[20:54:53] <tomp> btw: adaptive ( aka slow down ) is not sufficient for edm ( watch the pulley )
[20:55:10] <SWPadnos> no - not sufficient alone, but still helpful
[20:56:02] <tomp> I use velocity curves that extend pos to ne and asymptote in middle ( null zone/ tieffreeze )
[20:56:19] <tomp> so they 'slow down, but also reverse
[20:56:37] <SWPadnos> I have no idea what you just said ;)
[20:56:52] <tomp> there's less reaction near correct, and more reaction ( delta velocity ) when away from 'correct'
[20:57:38] <tomp> so when 'too close' it's fast ( run away ) when too far , it's fast ( run in ) when near correct it's slow...
[20:58:13] <SWPadnos> sure - a PID control, based on the sensed gap
[20:58:28] <tomp> only P no I no D
[20:58:33] <SWPadnos> you can just add in a PID in HAL, and speed up or slow down the feed as needed
[20:58:51] <SWPadnos> but, it will only be the feedrate, you can't really back up the position (yet)
[20:59:27] <tomp> where can I look, what are the controlling factors (in emc terminology ) to be studied?
[21:00:34] <SWPadnos> one sec ...
[21:01:39] <SWPadnos> well - you were the last person to edit the wiki page on EDM ;)
[21:02:03] <tomp> :-)
[21:02:17] <alex_joni> tomp: probably the place you want to do some havoc is the TP
[21:02:31] <SWPadnos> I don't think much has been done except talking about implementation issues for backing up through G-code
[21:03:33] <tomp> what software files are concerned with FE ( elimination of FE Derivatrive & Integration will be a start )?
[21:03:49] <tomp> for G[edm mode]
[21:04:18] <SWPadnos> the PID is done in a HAL block, and can be disabled by editing a text configuration file
[21:04:33] <SWPadnos> the motion controller doesn't do those calculations any more
[21:05:10] <SWPadnos> (though it does look at commanded and actual position, to decide if there is a FERROR happening)
[21:05:19] <tomp> what does the calcs now? (docs gotta be marked obsolete!)
[21:05:32] <SWPadnos> which docs?
[21:06:09] <alex_joni> tomp: you can simply set insanely high FE values in the ini
[21:06:37] <tomp> the docs i justr read saying MOTION did all the calcs... either emc2 dev or emc user handbook.
[21:07:09] <tomp> ok, yes i can even blot out the err report or report 0...
[21:07:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[21:07:49] <davidf> hi
[21:07:54] <tomp> the work will be allowing the motion to go to another place and return 9 NOT backup, backup is for woosy wire edm, not sinker )
[21:08:03] <tomp> 9 = (
[21:08:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:09:06] <SWPadnos> ok - I see one spot in the docs that needs changing (EMC2_User_Manual.pdf, section 1.5.2)
[21:10:29] <SWPadnos> using the "after motion controller offset" method, you return to where you were (or where the motion controller thinks you should be now) by setting all offsets to 0
[21:12:21] <tomp> tomp looks for the detailed list of who does what ... it was in tool change explanation...
[21:12:45] <SWPadnos> the infamous "emc2 block diagram"?
[21:14:19] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC2_Code_Notes.pdf
[21:14:34] <SWPadnos> page 8, section 3.1 and on "Motion Controller"
[21:14:45] <SWPadnos> hopefully, that's very up to date
[21:14:52] <alex_joni> "So things are going pretty well all things considered, and while no one's buying the astronaut story it's still better than admitting you're a furry toothed geek who spends half his day writing Perl scripts and the other half browsing porn..." (lol)
[21:15:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I don't think it has been touched for a year or so
[21:15:15] <SWPadnos> 5 September 2004 - looks like 2 years
[21:15:38] <SWPadnos> though the description of how the motion controller works, in terms of data flow, is probably still correct
[21:15:53] <tomp> sorry, still looking ( that ref wasnt familiar), anyway, the out of date-ness has already been verified... where do i go to ad reversal code?
[21:15:58] <SWPadnos> (the algorithms are wrong, but the connections are more or less similar, kinda)
[21:16:28] <SWPadnos> it's not simple, but it would need to be in the trajectory planner if you want to be able to back up into the previous G_code segment
[21:17:00] <tomp> and, (simpler) what if I had a 'safe place' to run away to? and then wanted to return?
[21:17:34] <SWPadnos> ie, move -0.1 inches in X for a while, then go back to where you were
[21:17:46] <SWPadnos> (extrapolated for multiple axes)
[21:19:04] <tomp> no, on low voltage, run away to a safe place, then return towards 'breakpoint' cautiously ( use 'adaptive feedrate' preset to a slow-er rate )
[21:19:31] <tomp> based on process feedback
[21:20:09] <SWPadnos> well, it may be possible to do that with HAL configuration only - you can latch in a new "safe location" every once in a while, and use some classic ladder or HAL decision-making to decide whether to use the TP output or the saved location as the motor position commadn
[21:20:13] <alex_joni> I'm off to bed.. night all
[21:20:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:20:17] <SWPadnos> see you Alex
[21:20:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh
[21:20:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> uh
[21:20:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> i'm going now too
[21:20:25] <tomp> bye alex, thanks
[21:20:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night
[21:20:32] <SWPadnos> see ya LH
[21:21:26] <tomp> i could chew on this "latch in a new TP output' for quite a while, any examples or thoughts?
[21:23:16] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I'm not sure there are any examples, but there are blocks in HAL like a two-input multiplexer which can be connected in such a way that it either tracks one input, or holds a previous value
[21:23:48] <dave> hi
[21:24:17] <tomp> the output is NML? or is that relevant when using HAL?
[21:24:33] <SWPadnos> I think you connect the output to one of the inputs, and when the selector input is in one state, the output gets effectively latched. in the other state, the other input is tracked on the output
[21:24:44] <SWPadnos> no - no NML in HAL
[21:24:51] <SWPadnos> think like chips and wires
[21:25:16] <tomp> ok, then what HAL moduler do i look at? (done)
[21:25:59] <SWPadnos> blocks is the one with stuff like comparators, multiplexers, summers, derivatives, etc.
[21:26:31] <SWPadnos> if you need to add any functions, it's pretty easy to do, and it's pretty ewasy to write a new HAL component (even I've done it ;) )
[21:26:43] <tomp> thanks much, i know edm is a mind bender for control eng'rs.
[21:27:03] <SWPadnos> it's no problem to understand what needs to be done, it's getting the current system to do it that's a problem ;)
[21:28:11] <dave> SWPadnos, quick question?
[21:28:17] <SWPadnos> ya - shoot
[21:28:24] <dave> I installed breezy, updated the system, and tried to download emc. But I get this message:
[21:28:46] <dave> W: GPG error: http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro breezy Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 445B1785BC92B87F
[21:29:10] <SWPadnos> did you download the new install script? it should be pointing at linuxcnc.org now
[21:29:46] <dave> no...
[21:29:55] <SWPadnos> well - get to it ;)
[21:30:10] <dave> dont know anything about that
[21:30:17] <SWPadnos> I think it's at linuxcnc.org/emc2-install.sh
[21:30:31] <SWPadnos> did you upgrade to dapper, or just update breezy?
[21:31:05] <dave> Do I use the synaptic pkg mgr with that as a repository
[21:31:09] <dave> breezy.
[21:31:25] <SWPadnos> ok - one sec. let me check the actual repo location
[21:31:40] <alex_joni> dave: download the install script again, and run it again
[21:32:09] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2-install.sh
[21:32:12] <dave> ok.
[21:32:25] <dave> thanks.
[21:32:29] <SWPadnos> directions: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[21:32:37] <SWPadnos> no problem. I hope this one works :)
[21:32:53] <dave> me too. thanks.
[21:32:57] <dave> bye
[21:33:01] <SWPadnos> see you
[21:33:48] <SWPadnos> tomp, at some point, we (developers on IRC) had a discussion about EDM-related changes thatwould be needed
[21:34:15] <SWPadnos> we thought of several stages that could be accomplished (in varying amounts of time), which were something like this:
[21:34:17] <tomp> should i read that? where/
[21:34:31] <SWPadnos> actually, I don't remember the stages :)
[21:34:48] <SWPadnos> look in the logs, or maybe Alex can search them
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> logger_aj, bookmark
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> See
[21:35:12] <SWPadnos> you can also look one directory up, in emc-devel
[21:37:15] <tomp> ok, will do, I may have some ideas, but if the dev's could keep the 'jittery pulley' neccesity in mind, it eliminate some dead ends, some unproductive work is avoided
[21:37:25] <SWPadnos> here's one discussion, from before CNC workshophttp://
[21:37:32] <SWPadnos> here's one discussion, from before CNC workshop
[21:40:17] <tomp> got it, very wedm-centric, i think ( and most universitys..) that sink edm is the nut to crack in terms of control, wedm is just like rayh sez, a 'bread-crumb' backup stack (ie: hansel & gretel)
[21:40:55] <SWPadnos> I think all you want to do is "wiggle" the wire in response to the sensed gap, right?
[21:41:03] <tomp> sink-edm is vervouse jiterry forward progress along a path, with occasional, unpredicatble jerks away from the path
[21:41:36] <alex_joni> tomp:
[21:41:42] <tomp> arrgh, no wire, big blocky electrodes, real edm.. (sorry too many people think wire is edm )
[21:41:55] <alex_joni> some search results on edm (might get you started..)
[21:41:57] <SWPadnos> ok. thaqt may be easier to write a HAL module for, since you really don't want to go backwards very far
[21:42:01] <SWPadnos> thanks Alex
[21:42:24] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: hope it's usefull to decide if those dates are worth a look or not :)
[21:42:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:42:35] <tomp> alex, thanks, staggerlytom is me, tomp
[21:43:28] <alex_joni> this was searching for "edm "
[21:43:30] <SWPadnos> I think there was a recent discussion (like June or July), where we discussed possible paths to getting full reversal - I remember mentioning that a jogwheel that could go forward/back through a program would be great ;)
[21:43:38] <alex_joni> the one without the extra space was lots..
[21:44:04] <tomp> alex, i work in edm since 1973, and have huge archives of data and white papers, just not a newbie in any case
[21:44:38] <tomp> i have 2 sinkers in my basement behind me now, it'd be nice to move 'em with emc2
[21:44:39] <alex_joni> tomp: I didn't suspect you were one ;)
[21:45:02] <alex_joni> actually in 73 I was pretty far away from beeing born :D
[21:45:51] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: <- complete results for "edm"
[21:46:04] <tomp> nuff said, I gotta read the HAL modules SWPadnos suggested ( the machines in the fotos were what I cut my teeth on )
[21:46:15] <SWPadnos> sounds painful ;)
[21:47:41] <SWPadnos> thanks again, Alex
[21:48:07] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sometimes I read a bit of old logs.. makes me smile
[21:49:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:52:32] <alex_joni> check the last 4 lines:
[21:56:39] <tomp> jmkasunich: did you mean inverse time here ? emcdevel/2005-12-02.txt:13:26:37 <jmkasunich> running T backwards has other advantages - backing up in wire edm's when the wire shorts to the work, for instance
[22:00:11] <SWPadnos> yep - I know we've discussed backing up a number of times
[22:00:59] <tomp> like if time is a stream, then position and velocity are streams too? just pick where you wanna be? ( sci-fi!!)
[22:01:05] <SWPadnos> I wonder if there's a way to get the logs into the linuxcnc.org database, so they can be searched more easily (for people who aren't Alex)
[22:01:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:01:28] <tomp> seriously
[22:02:38] <SWPadnos> sure - there are a couple of other problems with reversal (such as cutter compensation, and the fact that you'll almost never reverse at the end of a move, which all the calculations would have been based on)
[22:03:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I can upload them..
[22:03:55] <SWPadnos> can joomla index them?
[22:04:02] <alex_joni> darn, I was supposed to be sleeping :)
[22:04:07] <alex_joni> no, but probably google can
[22:04:08] <SWPadnos> nighty nighy
[22:04:11] <SWPadnos> true
[22:04:13] <alex_joni> we now have a google search :D
[22:04:18] <SWPadnos> well - that could help :)
[22:04:27] <tomp> another day alex, thanks & goto bed
[22:04:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: 249 MB for the whole thing
[22:05:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: is that ok?
[22:05:18] <SWPadnos> I don't think that'll put me over the 78GB limit anytime soon ;)
[22:06:07] <SWPadnos> I think Paul is the largest user right now, with ~3G used
[22:06:12] <alex_joni> no kidding ;)