#emc | Logs for 2006-08-29

[18:15:49] <robin_sz> http://www.blmgroup.com/img/prodotti/lasertube/LT712D/campionatura/foto4_zoom.jpg
[18:15:56] <robin_sz> mmm .. tasty
[18:16:53] <robin_sz> jepler, if you get bored, checkout www.sheetcam.com ... turns dxf into gcode
[18:16:58] <jepler> robin_sz: neat
[18:17:33] <robin_sz> jepler, yeah very neat, I think thats done with 6 axis though, mine is going to be 4 axis
[18:18:59] <robin_sz> notice how the cut in the "top" face of the lower tube is not orthoganal to the surface
[18:20:08] <robin_sz> http://www.blmgroup.com/img/prodotti/lasertube/LT712D/campionatura/foto2_zoom.jpg
[18:20:39] <robin_sz> that one however is just 4 axis, all cuts orthoganl
[18:54:33] <MichelG> Hello everyone.
[18:55:42] <MichelG> cradek: Someone has already included support for the probe in process_input() in control.c and did a super job. just had to add a signal in standard_pinout.hal and my probe works OK. Kudos.
[18:56:25] <cradek> ah so you just had to hook up your probe to the probe input in hal?
[18:56:43] <MichelG> Absolutely!!!
[18:56:52] <cradek> wonderful
[18:57:32] <cradek> which version of emc is this?
[19:00:23] <MichelG> newsig probe_input bit / linksp probe_input parport.0.pin-11-in / linksp probe_input motion.probe-input; that's all.
[19:02:32] <MichelG> Got from the CVS on saturday evening. CVS says:/control.c/1.63/Mon Aug 7 21:10:18 2006//
[19:04:00] <davidf> hello
[19:05:06] <cradek> thanks that's nice to know
[19:05:20] <davidf> SWPadnos, or anyone, how hard is it to roll back to emc from emc2?
[19:05:47] <SWPadnos> what system are you on? (Ubuntu, BDI ...)
[19:05:53] <davidf> ubuntu
[19:05:57] <cradek> do you mean emc1 or bdi4emc?
[19:06:30] <davidf> I want to try it & see if my weird stalling problem goes away.
[19:06:33] <davidf> emc1
[19:06:46] <cradek> you can't run emc1 on a 2.6 kernel
[19:06:59] <davidf> It only started after I upgraded.
[19:07:01] <cradek> can't compile, specifically
[19:07:08] <davidf> Hmm...
[19:08:01] <SWPadnos> I think bdi4emc is basically the same as emc1 (in terms of operation), but works on 2.6 kernels.
[19:08:11] <davidf> Can't remember how I downloaded it, or did it maybe come with ubuntu...
[19:08:14] <cradek> what all did you change during this upgrade? any hardware too?
[19:08:21] <SWPadnos> though there have definitely been many additions to BDI, such as quickstep
[19:08:36] <SWPadnos> there's no emc with ubuntu by default
[19:08:42] <davidf> No hardware changes
[19:08:50] <davidf> ok SWPadnos
[19:08:54] <cradek> I don't know if anyone has successfully built bdi4emc on ubuntu - I don't know how and details are hard to come by.
[19:08:57] <SWPadnos> unless you installed from an emc2 livecD
[19:09:42] <davidf> I installed ubuntu from the distribution disc. Then I think I downloaded emc from cnclinux.org
[19:10:54] <SWPadnos> I thikn the only pointers on LinuxCNC.org are to emc2
[19:12:40] <davidf> Well wasn't there an upgrade recently? Maybe I did have emc2 all along, but I thought I did an upgrade awile ago.
[19:13:16] <SWPadnos> for installed packages, there was a recent upgrade, to 2.0.3
[19:13:31] <SWPadnos> for run-in-place, there have been many changes
[19:13:41] <SWPadnos> (ie, CVS checkout / compile)
[19:20:32] <jepler> davidf: in the file /var/cache/apt/archives/ you may have several files starting with "emc" in the name.
[19:20:46] <jepler> davidf: unless you've cleared the cache, it should include any version you installed as an ubuntu package
[19:20:56] <davidf> ok
[19:21:01] <davidf> thanks
[19:21:11] <jepler> emc2_1%3a2.0.2_i386.deb emc2_1%3a2.0.3_i386.deb
[19:21:12] <cradek> you can easily downgrade your packaged emc2 version
[19:21:22] <jepler> I have these files which indicate that I had installed 2.0.2 and 2.0.3 at different times
[19:21:48] <cradek> I think you can just 'apt-get install emc2=2.0.1'
[19:22:36] <davidf> ok thanks. I'm checking the archives to see what I did.
[19:27:25] <jepler> one thing that changed between 2.0.0 and 2.0.1 is that in almost all cases, only half of the machine's acceleration (as specified in the ini file) would be used
[19:29:04] <jepler> in 2.0.1 if no axis reverses in a move, the full acceleration can be used
[19:29:29] <jepler> so a machine that behaved in 2.0.0 might stall in 2.0.1 because the acceleration used is now too high
[19:30:01] <cradek> that's an interesting thought
[19:31:23] <davidf> Well, unfortunately I'm that's not likely the cause since it happens with accel = 1 or 2. But thanks for that.
[19:31:39] <davidf> - I'm
[19:34:04] <davidf> I went throught the wiring, removed a ground loop, Ran a 12-guage extension into the shop from a true earth ground outlet, disconnected the inverter-chip buffer circuitry & ran directly from parport to the opto-coupled drives, nothing helps.
[19:35:08] <cradek> I still suspect you have a realtime glitch of some kind in your machine
[19:35:13] <cradek> that's the best way to get unexplained stalls
[19:35:24] <cradek> however iirc we tested it at length
[19:35:55] <davidf> Runs perfectly smooth, then maybe one in five or temn minutes, one or more axes stall and screech, then continue on, in the wrong place.
[19:36:11] <cradek> I had exactly that
[19:36:23] <cradek> the problem was the CPU fan coming on which caused a glitch
[19:36:43] <davidf> happens at any speed, any axis, multiple or single axis runs, constant vel or accel.
[19:37:23] <davidf> Driving me nuts. You guys too, I guess. Sorry for that...
[19:37:36] <davidf> OK, now that's encourageing!
[19:37:38] <cradek> nah don't worry about that
[19:37:43] <cradek> what is?
[19:37:51] <davidf> CPU fan prob
[19:38:00] <cradek> this isn't a laptop is it?
[19:38:12] <davidf> I have heat mgt I think. I hear it speed up and slow down sometimes.
[19:38:18] <cradek> ohhhh
[19:38:22] <davidf> No, desktop.
[19:38:23] <cradek> you must turn all that junk off
[19:38:34] <cradek> in the system bios
[19:38:52] <davidf> yay, yippee, something to try.
[19:38:52] <cradek> all power savings, ACPI, APM, CPU speed scaling, etc
[19:39:03] <davidf> bless you
[19:39:06] <cradek> haha
[19:39:11] <cradek> wait until you see if it works :-)
[19:40:06] <davidf> Hey, Im just ecstatic to be able to try something I havent already redone 5 times!
[19:40:18] <cradek> I know that feeling well...
[19:40:26] <davidf> Device mgr?
[19:40:46] <cradek> system bios (reboot and hit Del/F1/F2/Esc when it says so)
[19:41:00] <davidf> ok...
[19:42:16] <davidf> Could you pls give me a partial list of what things to turn off... I don't want to crash & Im a novice at that kind of thing.
[19:42:43] <davidf> Just power savings stuff you mentioned above?
[19:43:02] <cradek> it's hard because it's called many different things
[19:43:08] <cradek> but mostly it's called ACPI
[19:43:17] <davidf> ok...
[19:43:32] <cradek> anything that looks like it's supposed to save power
[19:43:36] <cradek> ask if unsure about something
[19:43:44] <davidf> ok.
[19:44:16] <davidf> Guess I'll have to reboot & ask, then go back, etc. NP.
[19:44:28] <cradek> ugh
[19:44:36] <cradek> you'll understand it when you get in there I bet
[19:44:45] <davidf> (Hopefully) See ya later
[19:45:08] <davidf> Barring smoke and flames.
[19:45:09] <cradek> if you have any problems booting after the changes, there's always a way to reset to defaults
[19:45:23] <davidf> oh good.
[19:45:26] <davidf> how?
[19:45:43] <davidf> Or is it a big drawn out thing...
[19:45:44] <cradek> in the bios it's usually on a menu or key (documented on the screen somewhere)
[19:45:52] <davidf> ok.
[19:46:16] <davidf> Anyway, let me have a look & see what I can do. 'Bye
[19:46:22] <cradek> bye
[19:54:21] <pier> jepler: I got something better now... even though there must be something in the dxf file which I can't alter with qcad lest there could be a transformation of polylines in lwpolyline not yet suopported
[19:54:28] <pier> http://pastebin.ca/153709
[19:55:43] <cradek> what are all the g90/g91?
[19:56:02] <pier> work-around for the old code
[19:56:19] <pier> it all worked in incremental
[19:56:23] <cradek> I think you should be using IJK format arcs, R format is bad in some cases
[19:56:30] <pier> but it is temporary
[19:56:36] <cradek> ah
[19:56:37] <pier> ok
[19:56:51] <cradek> are you translating from dxf representation (endpoint/bulge)?
[19:56:57] <pier> yes
[19:57:09] <pier> code 42
[19:57:16] <pier> in polylines
[19:58:23] <cradek> is your program GPL?
[19:59:08] <pier> I don't know but as soon as it isless spaghetti code I'll put the source on the web somewhere
[20:00:41] <pier> I am a bit ashamed of the worm can this program has become :)
[20:00:46] <cradek> I ask because I have well-tested dxf->gcode arc code in REALIZE but it's GPL so you need to decide on your license before you use it
[20:01:23] <cradek> that's no matter, source doesn't have to be pretty to be open
[20:01:34] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/autocad/realize.lsp
[20:01:41] <pier> hehe but that is relly terrible
[20:01:46] <cradek> look in cut-to
[20:01:56] <pier> already had a look at it ;) thanks
[20:02:00] <pier> ok
[20:02:42] <cradek> just 6 lines, very simple
[20:03:40] <pier> pretty neat
[20:05:29] <pier> I have lost a lot of time reordering the entities
[20:05:42] <pier> first cutting the holes
[20:05:58] <pier> then the outer profiles
[20:06:11] <pier> from the nearer to the farther
[20:06:52] <cradek> it's very hard to pick the right order
[20:07:10] <cradek> "right" order depends a lot on how the workpiece is held
[20:08:04] <pier> I tailored it around my "machine"
[20:08:30] <pier> adesive tape to hold balsa sheet
[20:08:40] <pier> on deprom flat board
[20:15:43] <pier> in any case any hints would be really welcommed, jepler made me see several bugs
[20:16:08] <pier> http://www.nablativede.s5.com/software/release.tar.gz
[20:16:50] <pier> it still needs vgalib... but I hope to get rid of it soon
[20:22:07] <cradek> pier: I'll be interested to see it when you release the source - sounds like I can't run it right now
[20:22:08] <cradek> davidf: any luck?
[20:23:34] <davidf> Some. I turned off main setting for power savings & tried that. One successful run, one failure.
[20:23:57] <cradek> so still no good, darn
[20:24:04] <davidf> But There is still APIC settings I have on, so I'm going back & turn off some more stuff.
[20:24:10] <cradek> do you get stalls near the beginning or end of the move, or in the middle?
[20:24:21] <davidf> all over the map.
[20:24:28] <cradek> APIC or ACPI? same four letters, totally different meanings
[20:24:41] <cradek> you want to turn off ACPI but not mess with APIC
[20:24:49] <pier> cradek: ok
[20:24:50] <davidf> oh. Have to look.
[20:25:03] <cradek> stupid acronyms
[20:25:16] <davidf> Stuff like A*** s3 Video Repost
[20:25:44] <davidf> ... S3 Hardrive reset
[20:26:02] <davidf> Integrated Video disable
[20:26:18] <davidf> Guess that's if you have a card, huh?
[20:26:19] <cradek> you're not using the integrated video right?
[20:26:28] <davidf> wrong.
[20:26:38] <davidf> it's enabled right now.
[20:26:43] <cradek> ouch
[20:26:51] <davidf> eh?
[20:26:54] <cradek> that's another big known troublemaker - the most common
[20:27:12] <cradek> it's a very rare machine that has integrated video that works properly with realtime
[20:27:17] <davidf> Hmm...
[20:27:27] <davidf> Di I have an option?
[20:27:41] <davidf> Do I need to get a video card or what?
[20:27:55] <cradek> yeah plug in any old graphics card
[20:28:03] <cradek> avoid nvidia, stick with ati or matrox
[20:28:04] <davidf> Or just shoot myself now & fix it that way?
[20:28:08] <cradek> haha
[20:28:38] <davidf> You mean any old GC I don't have, right?
[20:28:56] <cradek> um, just look on top of that pile of junk in the garage...
[20:29:07] <davidf> Well, I do have a bunch of dinos around surely I have something.
[20:29:13] <cradek> there you go
[20:29:20] <davidf> long as its the right bus.
[20:29:23] <cradek> never throw away old computers :-)
[20:29:59] <davidf> Oh, you mean some people do that? Oh, that's why all mine were found on the curb, I guess.
[20:30:01] <cradek> for a good time, run a program that's all long jogs at full speed, then move around/iconify/maximize some windows on your screen
[20:30:36] <cradek> if you hear any disturbance when you play with the windows you have found the (a) problem
[20:30:55] <davidf> Well, I really dont need to do that, I'm having lots of fun already just watching the spindle crash, etc.
[20:31:46] <cradek> I just say that because a missed pulse is most likely to stall a fast move, and you will probbly be able to hear it even if it doesn't stall
[20:32:46] <davidf> Ah, guess what? I just bothered to look at this box. (It's faily new & I just plugged stuf in & started using it.) It alredy has a video card, and the monitor is plugged in there.
[20:33:32] <davidf> But, I'm pretty sure the bios is set for integrated. Is that possible even?
[20:34:08] <cradek> often the bios will detect the card and automatically disable the onboard
[20:34:18] <cradek> it can't hurt to disable it anyway just in case
[20:34:36] <davidf> oh. ok.
[20:35:16] <davidf> I'll go check whether that stuff was ACIP or APIC. Which one do I want to turn off?
[20:35:23] <jepler> ACPI
[20:35:23] <cradek> ACPI
[20:35:39] <davidf> ha. yet another.
[20:36:09] <davidf> Hell, if it has an A, its gone. (just kidding)
[20:36:21] <davidf> brb
[20:41:35] <robin_sz> such fun.
[20:42:13] <robin_sz> thats the difference between pseudo realtime systems such as mach2
[20:42:22] <robin_sz> and hard realtime systems like emc
[20:42:30] <robin_sz> emc is real realtime
[20:42:43] <robin_sz> but its just harder ;)
[21:21:54] <Bo^Dick> is there a smart way of telling eagle that the top-side of a board can be used by the autorouter but to not use the pads on the top-side of the board?
[21:23:28] <cradek> no, you have to put an autorestrict polygon over each pad
[21:24:56] <cradek> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/autorestrict_noic.ulp?rev=1.1
[21:25:02] <Bo^Dick> so if i'm smart i can place a polygon with the same shape and size as the pads on the top-side of the board
[21:25:04] <davidf> Hey.
[21:25:08] <cradek> I don't quite remember writing this but it may do what you want
[21:25:15] <cradek> no support included :-)
[21:25:20] <cradek> welcome back davidf
[21:25:29] <davidf> cradek, much better.
[21:25:39] <cradek> really? what did you change?
[21:25:49] <davidf> Ran first test w small glitch on z,
[21:25:57] <cradek> Bo^Dick: looks like I wanted to allow it to use the top of DIP pads (because I had long-tail sockets probably)
[21:26:00] <davidf> Then 5 perfect trials.
[21:26:11] <cradek> you still heard a glitch though?
[21:26:32] <davidf> Changed G01 speed to 60 ipm non last 2, and 6th failed on x & y.
[21:26:41] <davidf> yes
[21:26:55] <cradek> you hear glitches sometimes that don't actually lead to stalls?
[21:27:08] <davidf> But this is the first time in quite awhile I even got through one test w/o failure.
[21:27:15] <davidf> no.
[21:27:40] <cradek> jeez that's tough then
[21:27:43] <davidf> Well, buzzing and missed steps at least.
[21:27:49] <Bo^Dick> thanks
[21:27:55] <Bo^Dick> gonna try the script now...
[21:28:12] <cradek> welcome
[21:28:27] <davidf> Usually it is a stall, but sometimes just loud buz & slowdown, with position error as result.
[21:29:08] <cradek> darn wish I could play with and hear the thing. I've hunted stalls plenty before.
[21:29:11] <davidf> But, the last test which failed, was at max speed to the system, and 80% of max possible pulses per second.
[21:29:28] <davidf> Max possible = 25000, my speed was 20000 PPS.
[21:29:31] <Bo^Dick> "can't find 'show_normal.scr'"
[21:30:11] <Bo^Dick> why does that come up?
[21:30:21] <cradek> Bo^Dick: remember it didn't come with support, dig in and try to fix it
[21:30:36] <cradek> Bo^Dick: I haven't used it for years so I don't know more about it than you do
[21:31:10] <davidf> I found & turned off all the ACPI stuf, but didn't find anything about temp. mgt or processor speed. Maybe in the device manager?
[21:31:14] <cradek> davidf: that's a little fast I guess
[21:31:15] <Bo^Dick> do you have that file btw, 'show_normal.scr'?
[21:31:34] <Bo^Dick> looks like the script is incomplete
[21:31:42] <cradek> Bo^Dick: sorry no, it probably just reset the grid and showing layers or something
[21:32:23] <cradek> davidf: I don't think it'll be anything in linux, none of that power management support is even compiled into the special kernel
[21:33:39] <davidf> jmkasunich said to not go over 1/2 to 2/3 of Max possible steps per sec, so I was over that when it failed. Except for the single Z glitch, which could have been a mechanical stall I guess. I'm going to raise the current a bit and increase acceleration to get out of low speed quicker.
[21:33:49] <davidf> Oh, ok.
[21:35:03] <davidf> Anyway, at least it's much better than it was.
[21:35:34] <cradek> that makes me more confident that it's still a problem with the machine
[21:35:51] <davidf> But I hope I can get it 100% reliabe. Won't want to try cutting expensive stuff till I do.
[21:36:00] <Bo^Dick> if i just draw a plain polygon with the "polygon" tool on the "top" layer, will eagle understand that as a restrict polygon then?
[21:36:12] <davidf> Yeah, I agree. Very big difference.
[21:36:14] <cradek> I have not yet run into a motherboard that just won't work with realtime, but some have taken a lot of experimention to get to work right
[21:36:28] <cradek> I'm quite sure there are some that just won't work
[21:36:41] <cradek> Bo^Dick: yes if it's on the right layer
[21:37:04] <cradek> Bo^Dick: check in your instruction manual for a description of how the layers interact with the autorouter
[21:37:49] <davidf> cradek, do you think being online via a network card and ADSL modem can affect anything while running?
[21:38:09] <cradek> davidf: I've never seen that to be a problem
[21:38:30] <davidf> k
[21:39:31] <davidf> I'll look in the bios some more I guess. Maybe there is something else I missed. I have no idea of what most of it is though.
[21:39:38] <cradek> same here
[21:40:53] <davidf> I know I've heard my fan speed up & slow down, but I couldn't find anything about cooling or temp that was in ordinary Englis. That figgers tho.
[21:40:57] <Bo^Dick> cradek, you're the man!
[21:41:18] <davidf> I'll second that.
[21:41:36] <cradek> davidf: I don't know if that's an ACPI function or not ... I unfortunately don't know much about that new stuff.
[21:41:53] <cradek> I have never actually run a machine on anything newer than an old PIII-667
[21:41:55] <davidf> k
[21:42:08] <davidf> this is a P3 733
[21:42:33] <cradek> ah
[21:42:44] <cradek> I'm surprised it has fan control then
[21:43:19] <davidf> Wonder what would happen If I plugged into the integrated Video & swithed back? Maybe this card grabs the cpu
[21:43:21] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick, eagle has a specific "restrict" layer from what I remember, actually, I think it has mroe than one .. seperate restrict layers for top and bottom layers from what I rememebr
[21:43:46] <Bo^Dick> ok
[21:44:00] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick, I made a outer border and then filled it on the restrict layers last time I used it
[21:44:01] <davidf> cradek, I'm not sure it does. Might be analog temp sensor or something on the fan itself I suppose...
[21:44:02] <cradek> robin_sz: I think there are multiple sets (sets of one for each layer) that restrict different things
[21:44:13] <Bo^Dick> how do i copy multiple objects in a group? right click maybe?
[21:44:52] <cradek> iirc their "cut" is actually "copy" in the modern sense
[21:45:07] <robin_sz> no, I rememerb you select them and then have to type somethign magical inthe command line
[21:45:12] <davidf> Hmmm... No cpu fan at all... Just a big honkin' heat sink. darn... Must be just the power supply fan I hear...
[21:46:02] <davidf> In my software, you just click the first one, then hold down shift while you click the rest.
[21:46:06] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick, once you start doing anything serious in Eagle, you'll find more than 50% of what you do is doen fromt he command line ratehr than the pointy clicky thing
[21:46:22] <cradek> ... and going through the tutorial is NOT wasted time
[21:46:29] <robin_sz> indeed :)
[21:46:30] <cradek> some things are pretty obscure indeed
[21:46:36] <robin_sz> no shit
[21:46:49] <davidf> Bo^Dick, see a few lines above re multi copy
[21:47:02] <cradek> and these questions say he hasn't done that :-)
[21:47:17] <robin_sz> eagle does NOT do things the windows way, so just trying to click and drool wont work
[21:47:51] <davidf> hmm... I'd be lost w/o the drooling then...
[21:48:20] <cradek> bbl
[21:48:31] <davidf> see ya. Thanks loads.
[21:49:20] <davidf> robin_sz, any ideas re stuff to turn off when running emc, besides power saving options & integrated video?
[21:49:38] <davidf> SWPadnos?
[21:49:49] <SWPadnos> here (sort of)
[21:50:15] <davidf> NP if you're busy.
[21:51:15] <robin_sz> davidf, well, not really. just turn off most everything and work from there. acpi is one thing to lose, and you covered integrated video already
[21:51:25] <robin_sz> anyting that shares the PCs ram has to go.
[21:51:57] <SWPadnos> the other group of settings to disable is anything related to APM
[21:52:26] <robin_sz> so ... I took my kids abseiling this evening ...
[21:52:40] <SWPadnos> abseiling?
[21:52:46] <robin_sz> yeah.
[21:52:48] <davidf> abcessing?
[21:53:15] <robin_sz> just throw a rope over a high beam in the entrance hall ....
[21:53:27] <robin_sz> and push them off the first floor landing :)
[21:54:38] <davidf> hmm... This is the guy I ask for advice...
[21:54:49] <davidf> =)
[21:54:52] <robin_sz> the 6 and 4 year olds got the hang of it pretty quick .. none of them got thier fingers trapped in the sticht plate
[21:55:02] <SWPadnos> oh good
[21:55:04] <davidf> LOL
[21:55:11] <robin_sz> the 3 year old wasnt really up to controlling the descent himself
[21:55:12] <davidf> really.
[21:56:11] <SWPadnos> I'm really glad I don't need any advice on parenting
[21:56:18] <robin_sz> ;)
[21:57:09] <davidf> wonder if my cats could do it...
[21:57:11] <robin_sz> it was a nice evening of fun :) ... we'd been out on the motorbike in the field before that but it got dark ...
[21:57:39] <robin_sz> and its tricky to steer with 3 kids on the bike ;)
[21:57:57] <pier> nice solution to get rid of scoundrel nephews
[21:58:05] <pier> :)
[21:59:11] <davidf> gotta go bbl thanks again guys
[21:59:24] <robin_sz> k. enjoy the stalling steppers :)
[21:59:50] <davidf> right.
[22:06:24] <danex> cradek, I have been away for a while, and caught the lines about integrated video
[22:06:49] <danex> My question is what problems have been seen with integrated video?
[22:07:36] <SWPadnos> integrated video creates an unknown and essentially random amount of timing jitter, since the CPU has to share the memory bus with the video chip
[22:08:28] <danex> I am using integrated video and have not seen any problems as of yet
[22:08:31] <SWPadnos> whenever certain video functions happen, such as moving a window, there can me large delays in RT code execution, and it's absolutely unpredictable and can't be prevented by software
[22:09:09] <SWPadnos> I also haved a machine with integrated video, and it's fine. the video chip actually has the 4M framebuffer built in (a C&T 69000, I think)
[22:09:24] <danex> It is probably the nature of my machine that I have not seen a problem
[22:09:30] <SWPadnos> it's when they share the path to main memory that you have problems
[22:09:47] <SWPadnos> it also doesn't matter as much if you don't use software step pulse generation
[22:10:12] <danex> Ahh I am using servo
[22:10:18] <cradek> not necessarily - on the Mazak it made a distinct banging noise when switching windows
[22:10:22] <SWPadnos> servo with a motenc or similar?
[22:10:32] <danex> Motenc
[22:10:45] <cradek> not sure what it uses but the onboard video was a very real problem on it
[22:11:05] <danex> I would like to see the Mazak
[22:11:14] <SWPadnos> the Mazak would be an extreme case - the video on that board may have been especially slow or terrible (Intel 845 or something, I think)
[22:11:18] <cradek> there are a few videos around somewhere
[22:11:32] <cradek> ah ok
[22:12:22] <cradek> it was fun to hear "machine on" fire up a dozen hydraulic things in sequence - on my mill it just turns on the choppers and there's a slight whistling noise
[22:12:24] <SWPadnos> if it's an integrated chip that thinks it's capable of 3D, it's even worse, I think :)
[22:12:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:12:30] <danex> Will the next fest be held where the Mazak is?
[22:12:35] <cradek> yes
[22:12:44] <cradek> sounds like it will be may or june
[22:13:30] <danex> I missed the first and second because of my boss
[22:13:44] <cradek> I was only at the most recent one
[22:13:45] <danex> The next will not be a problem
[22:14:04] <cradek> I got out of all the hard work on the Mazak but still got to play with it
[22:14:42] <SWPadnos> that's the ticket
[22:14:42] <SWPadnos> it was surprisingly quiet
[22:14:42] <danex> Mazaks are fun to play with
[22:14:42] <SWPadnos> (at least with the big fan on top running)
[22:14:42] <cradek> it encouraged me to work on a few bugfixes, so it wasn't all for nothing
[22:14:49] <cradek> yes it was quiet
[22:15:01] <SWPadnos> servos are the thing, I think
[22:15:06] <cradek> except for the hydraulic pump that honks occasionally
[22:15:13] <SWPadnos> using real servo drives, not step-to-servo units like the Geckos
[22:15:14] <cradek> I wish someone could figure that out
[22:15:26] <danex> HONKS?
[22:15:36] <SWPadnos> I don't remember the honking
[22:15:39] <cradek> hard to explain the noise
[22:15:50] <cradek> I think there's just air somewhere there shouldn't be
[22:16:04] <cradek> was it you who took some videos?
[22:16:11] <danex> Is it intermittant with no set repeat timing?
[22:16:15] <cradek> yeah
[22:16:22] <cradek> pretty frequent, but no pattern
[22:16:40] <SWPadnos> I have one video - of the toolchanger at work
[22:16:55] <danex> I would like to see the video
[22:17:09] <SWPadnos> the 70M file, or the 4.5M file?
[22:17:30] <SWPadnos> this is the big one: http://www.cncgear.com/Files/mazak.avi
[22:17:45] <SWPadnos> this is the small one: http://www.cncgear.com/Files/mazak-small.avi
[22:18:20] <danex> going for the big one
[22:18:34] <SWPadnos> of course ;) it is a Mazak after all
[22:18:47] <Bo^Dick> what's the command for counting the number of via-holes?
[22:18:59] <danex> On the hydraulic tank, did anyone check the filter screen?
[22:19:05] <cradek> 'run count' maybe?
[22:19:16] <cradek> I think there's a count.ulp somewhere in the distrib
[22:19:51] <cradek> danex: I think you'd have to ask ray or jmk that, I'm sure they checked all obvious things
[22:20:30] <Bo^Dick> thanks
[22:20:49] <SWPadnos> and probably some non-obvious things
[22:20:55] <cradek> probably
[22:21:08] <cradek> I think ray and dave-e know those machines well
[22:21:43] <danex> The reason I asked is that in the past, I had one that was cleaned, made some intermittant noise,
[22:22:24] <cradek> you mean it made noise after you cleaned it?
[22:22:32] <danex> It turned out to be air traped in the filter screen, a bubble would go through and make noise
[22:22:51] <cradek> ok I see
[22:23:03] <danex> the owner cleaned it, I was sent in after the noise started
[22:23:18] <cradek> I see
[22:23:32] <danex> At the time I worked for Mazak
[22:23:43] <cradek> is there some kind of bleeding procedure?
[22:24:46] <cradek> could be that they didn't think it was hurting anything and moved on to the more fun stuff
[22:25:04] <danex> This was a screw on type screen, when I removed it to check, the bubbles floated out
[22:25:08] <cradek> to me it sounded like air in the works, but I of course have no idea how to fix that
[22:25:27] <cradek> maybe you can fix it next may, that would be great
[22:25:50] <danex> I think it is not so much of a problem, would most likely work it out
[22:26:18] <cradek> ok
[22:27:36] <danex> This is a question I have, What is a good source of documentation on the EMC, other than the manuals and the wiki?
[22:28:12] <cradek> the manuals and wiki and source code are all we have aside from asking people
[22:28:27] <pier> night all
[22:28:58] <danex> My future plans are to set up a "lab" of sorts and try out several configs of EMC
[22:29:08] <danex> night pier
[22:34:42] <danex> A machine that would have been a good retofit was scraped today,
[22:35:47] <danex> An SNK with a 1500mm x 3000mm bed
[22:36:50] <danex> Would have been nice to EMC the machine
[22:37:56] <robin_sz> nice ...
[22:38:24] <robin_sz> I keep hopingto find a nice 3m x 1.5m laser with a duff laser
[22:39:25] <robin_sz> europe is going to be fun for cheap lasers next year ... Bystronic are launching a cheap machine at the hanover show in October
[22:39:33] <danex> This same company scraped a Tanaka laser
[22:40:24] <robin_sz> have them crate it up and send it over ...
[22:40:24] <danex> Just to get it out of the way
[22:40:32] <danex> It was hauled to a metal scrap yard
[22:40:44] <robin_sz> shame
[22:42:21] <robin_sz> Bystronic are rumoured to be launching a new achine for about the price of most of the current secondhand machines ...
[22:42:23] <danex> Yes it was
[22:42:35] <robin_sz> thats going to gut the secondhand market in lasers here
[22:42:44] <robin_sz> should be some nice cheap stuff about.
[22:42:44] <danex> What type of laser
[22:43:01] <robin_sz> 3m x 1.5m flatbed cutter
[22:43:30] <danex> not a bad size
[22:43:44] <robin_sz> with a 2,2kw fast axial flow laser
[22:44:08] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/Submakefile: syntax check python scripts before moving into place
[22:44:34] <danex> Where is this company located in Europe
[22:44:43] <robin_sz> bystronic?
[22:44:47] <robin_sz> global
[22:44:51] <danex> yes
[22:44:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/image-to-gcode.py: use a Converer class instead of having a zillion function arguments everywhere
[22:44:59] <robin_sz> hq is in .ch
[22:45:22] <robin_sz> but its a global company ... one af the big 3
[22:45:39] <robin_sz> trumpf, amada, bystronic
[22:47:20] <danex> I have seen Mazak, LVD and TANAKA mostly
[22:47:34] <danex> in lasers anyway
[22:50:47] <danex> I am looking at their website,
[22:55:20] <danex> robin_sz, I gave your suggestions to the supervisor over the lasers, many of the items he was not aware of
[22:56:08] <danex> Maybe he will use the info
[22:56:23] <danex> I have to go now
[22:56:32] <danex> Good Night All
[22:56:37] <danex> * danex is away: Away at the moment
[23:43:51] <jepler> hmph. I hate geometry problems.
[23:44:30] <jepler> Suppose I have some curve K and I want to find how large a circle I can put tangent to K at some point Ki
[23:45:54] <jepler> no, that's not quite the question I want to ask .. because the center of the circle is to be just above Ki (same X value)
[23:46:15] <jepler> but K is flat at Ki so it's the same thing
[23:46:34] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich tries to understand the question
[23:46:45] <jepler> I'm not sure I understand it yet either
[23:46:59] <jmkasunich> K is a bunch of points?
[23:47:08] <jmkasunich> Ki is a particular one?
[23:47:16] <jepler> this is to compute the radius of arc that may be used as a lead-in
[23:47:49] <jmkasunich> what do you mean by "curve K"?
[23:48:00] <jepler> It's a curve y = K(x) but it's discrete (x = 0, 1, ...)
[23:48:05] <jmkasunich> K is a bunch of Z values at various Y values
[23:48:22] <jmkasunich> so more like K[0] thru K[something]
[23:48:25] <jepler> yeah
[23:48:31] <jmkasunich> and i is somewhere between 0 and something
[23:48:34] <jepler> yeah
[23:49:25] <jmkasunich> you want a circle who's center is above K[i]m and no part of the circle is below its corresponding K value
[23:49:29] <jepler> it seems like I should be able to look at some K[j] and find the circle that it, K[i] and the "above" constrainnt define
[23:50:37] <jepler> find the point above (i, q) that is the same distance to (j, K[j]) and (i, K[i])
[23:50:42] <jepler> er, find the point (i, q)
[23:50:56] <jmkasunich> whats q?
[23:51:00] <jepler> the undkknown
[23:51:03] <jepler> unknown
[23:51:08] <jepler> you should look at my napkin
[23:51:12] <jmkasunich> heh
[23:51:17] <jmkasunich> scan it ;-)
[23:51:21] <jepler> no scanner, luckily
[23:51:34] <jmkasunich> ok, I need to get the terminology right
[23:51:36] <jmkasunich> i = integer
[23:51:45] <jepler> that's OK, I think I've solved it now
[23:51:46] <jmkasunich> 0 to image_width or something like that
[23:51:50] <jmkasunich> darn ;-)
[23:56:58] <dmessier> how many points do you have???
[23:58:39] <jepler> probably the maximum desired size of the circle is at most 100 points big
[23:58:50] <jepler> (so you can return 100 if you know the answer is "at least 100")
[23:59:08] <jepler> here's an image that might show what I am talking about: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/geometry-problem.png
[23:59:12] <dmessier> sounds like a NURB solution would fit the bill... maintain tangency best...
[23:59:32] <jepler> the circle can only grow until it touches the sample at J
[23:59:46] <dmessier> 100 pts in a tight portion of code the pre post would take forever...