#emc | Logs for 2006-08-23

[00:30:44] <SWPadnos> is there a requirement to have pullups/pulldowns/drivers on parport pins?
[00:31:02] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to see anything from the parport on my Opteron, and having no luck
[00:31:30] <SWPadnos> the update function is in the base thread, I've tried the parport_probe trick (may not have done it correctly though)
[00:32:00] <SWPadnos> if anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them
[00:35:34] <robin_sz> parports are usually totem-pole output 20ma of sink, 3ma of source
[00:35:44] <SWPadnos> should be enough to drive a scope
[00:35:51] <robin_sz> yip
[00:36:06] <SWPadnos> actually, they can light an LED - some are high, and I get lots of nice white light
[00:36:28] <robin_sz> yip, thats pretty good, mostly their source capaability is crap
[00:36:45] <SWPadnos> actually, that's sourcing - there's no +5 on a parport
[00:36:57] <robin_sz> yip
[00:37:03] <SWPadnos> these are bright as hell LEDs though - 130000 mcd at 20 mA
[00:37:11] <SWPadnos> (yes, 130k )
[00:37:20] <robin_sz> 130 cd
[00:37:27] <SWPadnos> right :)
[00:37:51] <robin_sz> but a 0.8 degree beam?
[00:38:13] <SWPadnos> nope. 10mm, 130 Cd, ~20 or 30 degree spread
[00:38:19] <robin_sz> nice
[00:38:22] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:38:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders how many foot-lamberts that is
[00:38:57] <SWPadnos> these are pretty brght - I can read in my office if I have two of them pointing at the ceiling
[00:39:06] <SWPadnos> it's a 180 ft^2 office
[00:39:17] <robin_sz> lumileds?
[00:39:20] <SWPadnos> nope
[00:39:23] <SWPadnos> one sec
[00:40:15] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7602852708
[00:40:25] <SWPadnos> that's not the auction, but it's the same thing, I think
[00:40:37] <SWPadnos> though I'm pretty sure mine are 25 degree
[00:40:43] <SWPadnos> or 20 or something l(
[00:40:45] <SWPadnos> ;)
[00:41:35] <robin_sz> led technology has come on a lot
[00:41:41] <SWPadnos> nope - I was remembering the operating temperature in degrees :)
[00:41:49] <SWPadnos> yes it has
[00:41:53] <robin_sz> you know IR solid state laser diodes?
[00:42:00] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:42:20] <robin_sz> what you thing the max cw power is from a single device?
[00:42:33] <SWPadnos> on ebay, 150 mW
[00:42:44] <robin_sz> over 100W
[00:42:56] <SWPadnos> gotta have a lot of cooling for that, I'm sure
[00:43:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:43:10] <robin_sz> solder them direct to a cooled lump of copper
[00:43:20] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:43:31] <SWPadnos> silver - even better
[06:03:01] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[06:05:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: seen one that does 454W
[06:13:46] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is exhausted... G'Night Folks!
[07:54:27] <pier> hi everyone!
[07:55:40] <alex_joni> hello
[07:55:51] <pier> good morning alex_joni
[07:56:16] <alex_joni> indeed.. same to you
[07:56:30] <pier> I managed to compile new emc2 version eventually!!
[07:56:39] <alex_joni> pier: great
[07:57:03] <pier> fumbled a bit with headers and got them to find what they needed
[07:57:49] <pier> the program starts with spalsh and a machine configuration menu
[07:58:00] <pier> but then complaints
[07:58:23] <pier> may I paste the message?
[07:59:23] <pier> it runs in place
[08:01:33] <pier> http://pastebin.ca/145984
[08:02:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks
[08:02:49] <alex_joni> ok, you're missing an utility program called fuser
[08:03:12] <alex_joni> bet slack has that somewhere, although I don't know where ;)
[08:03:38] <pier> /usr/bin/fuser
[08:04:11] <alex_joni> it exists?
[08:04:18] <pier> yes
[08:04:32] <pier> I've already used it several times
[08:05:05] <alex_joni> ok.. it seems you discovered something we didn't expect
[08:05:19] <alex_joni> I see the script is checking for /sbin/fuser and /bin/fuser
[08:05:24] <pier> perhaps it is located in the wrong place for emc to search..
[08:05:25] <alex_joni> not /usr/bin/fuser
[08:05:52] <alex_joni> pier: 2 ways to fix it: 1. make a symlink /bin/fuser to /usr/bin/fuser
[08:05:53] <pier> I'll try with a symbolic link
[08:06:00] <pier> ok :)
[08:06:10] <alex_joni> 2. edit emc2/scripts/realtime (you can find the check easily)
[08:08:02] <pier> ok... now the rt module pops up :(
[08:08:10] <alex_joni> pops up?
[08:08:32] <alex_joni> pastebin? :D
[08:08:39] <pier> yes
[08:09:17] <pier> http://pastebin.ca/145990
[08:10:38] <alex_joni> sorry.. my puter is a bit slow now (have a virtual dapper loaded)
[08:10:45] <alex_joni> takes a while to open that page :(
[08:10:58] <pier> nevermind :)
[08:11:27] <alex_joni> pier: this one is easy ;)
[08:11:36] <alex_joni> but you should read the docs :))
[08:11:53] <alex_joni> the module hal_parport can't be loaded, because you already have a parport module loaded
[08:12:01] <pier> my my ashes on my bald head .....
[08:12:02] <alex_joni> try 'rmmod pc_parport'
[08:12:16] <pier> ok lsmod gave me a hint
[08:12:22] <alex_joni> or check with lsmod what's loaded
[08:12:32] <pier> ok already done
[08:13:52] <pier> ok rmmoded lp, ppa and parport_pc
[08:14:14] <pier> yauuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[08:14:24] <pier> God am happy!!!!!
[08:14:38] <pier> thanx alex_joni
[08:14:46] <pier> thanks so much!!!
[08:15:39] <alex_joni> pier: no problem ;)
[08:15:41] <alex_joni> glad it's working
[08:16:20] <pier> was too sad working with bdi on a different distro
[08:16:39] <alex_joni> pier: it seems everyone has their preferences
[08:17:28] <pier> yes... that is true... it is much a question of laziness on my part though
[08:18:49] <alex_joni> I used to be a SuSE fan myself
[08:19:37] <pier> alex_joni: do you think that once the parport have been removed the pins of lp0 should be clean... I mean no signals out of them?
[08:20:02] <alex_joni> pier: yes
[08:20:08] <alex_joni> but they might stay at the last state
[08:20:17] <pier> mmmmh that really puzzles me a lot
[08:20:25] <alex_joni> pier: what does?
[08:20:52] <pier> because I wrote a cnc code to cut balsa pieces for my aeromodels
[08:20:59] <pier> Dos code
[08:21:07] <pier> borland C
[08:21:33] <pier> and lately, to get rid of dos for good I ported it unde linux
[08:22:02] <pier> but when it comes to writing to paralel port
[08:22:16] <alex_joni> pier: it's a bit of a PITA ;)
[08:22:32] <pier> it look I always have some noise on pins
[08:22:57] <pier> and steppers run randomly
[08:23:12] <pier> enable pins work thoug
[08:24:11] <pier> I wrote that code to handle just dxf files
[08:24:27] <pier> without the hassle of writing G-code
[08:24:40] <CIA-10> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/realtime.in: check another plausible location for FUSER (hint: slackware)
[08:25:21] <alex_joni> pier: thanks for the fuser finding ;)
[08:25:39] <pier> you are wellcome
[08:25:52] <pier> It always happens to me
[08:26:04] <alex_joni> what does?
[08:26:18] <pier> I lately discovered by chance
[08:26:31] <pier> a (I wouldnt say bug)
[08:27:24] <pier> strange behaviour in BRLCAD handling triangles produced in dxf files by autocad
[08:28:29] <alex_joni> VMware server is nice sometimes
[08:28:39] <pier> as in the case of noise from parallel port....
[08:28:58] <alex_joni> pier: what drives are you using?
[08:29:12] <alex_joni> L297/298 ?
[08:29:15] <pier> yes
[08:29:22] <alex_joni> your own design?
[08:29:43] <pier> no... just cut and paste from datasheet
[08:29:58] <pier> I made the board hatching
[08:30:04] <alex_joni> pier: I suggest you looking at the PminMo design
[08:30:09] <alex_joni> has some nice filtering on the inputs
[08:30:22] <pier> etching
[08:30:36] <alex_joni> http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
[08:30:59] <pier> how come then they work under dos...? Mistery!
[08:31:55] <alex_joni> they work OK under dos?
[08:32:08] <pier> perfectly
[08:32:19] <pier> not a hitch
[08:34:08] <alex_joni> then I suspect they should work OK under emc2 too ;)
[08:35:19] <pier> yes... I tried BDI and it worked perfectly
[08:35:53] <alex_joni> pier: no reason why it shouldn't work under slack with emc2 then
[08:36:43] <pier> hehehe now I'll move to the garage pc to get new kernel patched and emc2 working... I am at home now
[08:42:03] <alex_joni> I see..
[08:42:09] <alex_joni> well, you can always drag the PC along
[08:42:20] <alex_joni> and move the kernel && modules if you have the same version
[08:45:43] <pier_garage> alex_joni: Thanks again!
[08:50:08] <alex_joni> pier_garage: no problem
[08:51:34] <alex_joni> pier_garage: where are you from ?
[08:56:42] <pier_garage> italy
[08:56:50] <alex_joni> mind if I ask you something?
[08:56:58] <pier_garage> shoot
[08:57:16] <alex_joni> if you haven't already, can you put a pin on www.frappr.com/emc2 ?
[08:57:30] <pier_garage> ok
[09:05:38] <pier_garage> done
[09:20:50] <alex_joni> coo.. thanks
[09:21:46] <pier_garage> you are welcome!
[09:33:26] <alex_joni> pier_garage: how's the sea now?
[09:34:19] <pier_garage> ehehe my flat is at first floor!... wait a sec
[09:34:50] <alex_joni> I drove not far from there this year (through Frosinone)
[09:35:10] <pier_garage> ah... prety near here
[09:35:26] <alex_joni> yeah, went to Siracusa (Sicilia) .. :)
[09:35:43] <pier_garage> pier_casa: asking a friend overlooking the shore how sea conditions are
[09:35:53] <alex_joni> had one night in Ceprano (a small village near Frosinone)
[09:36:03] <alex_joni> pier_garage: not that important really :)
[09:36:14] <alex_joni> any jellyfish?
[09:36:14] <pier_garage> :)
[09:36:31] <pier_garage> not here as far as I know
[09:36:46] <alex_joni> great..
[09:36:58] <pier_garage> calm and smooth as oil
[09:41:12] <alex_joni> http://www.ngline.ru/fun/1000000.swf <- lol
[09:41:57] <pier_garage> alex_joni: now I remember... I gave you my e-mail to get in touch to when in Italy?
[09:42:11] <alex_joni> don't think so ..
[09:42:20] <alex_joni> not that I can remember anyways ;)
[09:42:42] <pier_garage> ok I mistook you
[09:42:59] <pier_garage> for another person who asked
[09:45:00] <alex_joni> might have been someone else
[10:49:11] <pier_garage> does anyone think that patching a kernel on a 1.3Ghz pc would take more than 35 minutes?
[10:52:24] <pier_garage> ok... solved... my fault
[12:16:22] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[13:23:01] <les_w> morning.
[13:28:17] <jepler> hi les
[13:33:28] <Bo^Dick> #microcontrollers
[13:34:42] <jepler> #emc
[13:35:30] <Bo^Dick> yeah, right
[13:41:51] <CIA-8> 03eric-johnson 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/emcrsh.cc:
[13:41:51] <CIA-8> Add 'Help' command to telnet interface, update source documentation, and fixed
[13:41:51] <CIA-8> a couple of minor bugs.
[16:29:39] <Jymmm> PING jepler
[16:39:38] <jepler> hi Jymmm
[16:40:00] <Jymmm> jepler: I got a problem...
[16:40:24] <Jymmm> I bought a dell to run ubuntu6,emc2, and AXIS on - it works, np.
[16:40:24] <Jymmm> Brenchtop real estate is at a premium so I want to xopen to the laptop.
[16:40:28] <Jymmm> I installed BDI 4.5 on the laptop (couldn't get sarge or ubuntu6 installed on it)
[16:40:29] <Jymmm> I setup an ini under BDI to use AXIS as a test - it works!
[16:40:32] <Jymmm> Now, when I try xforwarding or xopen to the laptop, I get a opengl error. TkEMC, no problem.
[16:40:32] <Jymmm> Axis V1.2.1 is on the laptop, and on emc2 AXIS v1.4a0
[16:41:12] <Jymmm> help?
[16:42:28] <cradek> bdi may not have gl in the xserver, but ubuntu does
[16:43:00] <cradek> does a forwarded glxinfo give an error too?
[16:45:00] <jepler> Jymmm: I frequently use a similar setup, but the displaying system is not bdi (redhat 9, ubuntu 5, fedora 4) .. I have never seen that behavior.
[16:45:50] <cradek> I do that with all combinations of X too, but I have one very old X setup that doesn't work
[16:46:03] <cradek> on that X server I get a glxinfo error like I pasted the other day
[16:46:31] <cradek> so I suggest trying anything but bdi
[16:46:48] <cradek> you could even try with the dapper livecd without installing it
[16:53:24] <Jymmm> Finally found a fast mirror for 6.06.1
[16:53:58] <SWPadnos> 6.06.1? is there an updated CD?
[16:54:05] <Jymmm> yeah
[16:54:17] <Jymmm> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/6.06/
[16:54:23] <SWPadnos> cool. that's better than ~300M of updates right after install ;)
[16:56:31] <SWPadnos> http://ftp.wayne.edu/linux_distributions/ubuntu/6.06/ - haven't checked speed yet
[16:57:04] <Jymmm> I'm at 285KBs
[16:57:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm - dooooog sloooooooowwwwww
[16:57:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Any reason you didn't use the link I posted?
[16:57:46] <cradek> he's not in germany?
[16:57:48] <SWPadnos> I didn't notice it until after I responded ;)
[16:57:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Ah
[16:58:02] <Jymmm> cradek and you rpoint is?
[16:58:14] <Jymmm> You dl where there sleeping =)
[16:58:19] <Jymmm> they're
[16:58:32] <Jymmm> that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!
[16:58:36] <SWPadnos> they've been awake for many hours there ;)
[16:58:45] <SWPadnos> it's ~6:00 PM there
[16:58:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I never said I actually look at the clock =)
[16:59:01] <SWPadnos> well, be that way then
[16:59:03] <Jymmm> See, maybe they're eating supper =)
[16:59:31] <SWPadnos> could be. and the kids haven't gotten online for their games yet
[16:59:40] <Jymmm> I dount know, I keep trying till I get 40minute dl, instead of 3hour ones
[17:00:23] <SWPadnos> so, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the parallel port to work on my fast machine?
[17:00:38] <SWPadnos> it's a new install of dapper, plus updates and emc2
[17:00:41] <SWPadnos> (2.0.3)
[17:00:46] <cradek> you tried the probe-parport module and various bios settings?
[17:00:50] <SWPadnos> I've tried the probe_parport module
[17:01:27] <SWPadnos> I haven't changed the BIOS settings - oh right. I should be sure it's EPP instead of ECP
[17:01:34] <cradek> maybe you (we) are unlucky enough to have another kind of probe that has to be done
[17:01:51] <SWPadnos> are you supposed to unload probe_parport after using it?
[17:02:00] <cradek> no I don't think so
[17:02:07] <cradek> you load it before hal_parport
[17:02:12] <SWPadnos> ok. the port is set to EPP version 1.9
[17:02:16] <SWPadnos> I can try 1.7 instead
[17:02:51] <SWPadnos> or set it to "normal", though that won't allow inputs
[17:03:29] <cradek> surely "normal" does inputs (AT style)
[17:03:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I wonder if I'll get a graphical login after all the fiddling I did yesterday with the X server
[17:03:51] <SWPadnos> I thought you needed EPP for the bidirectional stuff
[17:04:00] <Jymmm> cradek: is the glxinfo suppose to display remotely?
[17:04:15] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, it should display anywhere you hope to run GL apps
[17:04:16] <Jymmm> export DISPLAY=ip:0
[17:04:26] <Jymmm> glxinfo
[17:04:46] <Jymmm> then displays in the term window
[17:04:53] <Jymmm> I typed it from
[17:06:01] <Jymmm> I got glxgears to run remotely
[17:08:09] <SWPadnos> by the way - I think I noticed a bug in halscope, though it may have been me
[17:08:35] <SWPadnos> if scope_rt is loaded, and the scope.capture function is already in a thread, halscope seems to think that it isn't running
[17:11:59] <alex_joni> http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp
[17:15:09] <Jymmm> Hmmm, no confirmation within TkEMC if you hit ALT+X
[17:23:09] <Jymmm> jepler anything I should check out?
[17:33:04] <Jymmm> Drove 140 miles yesterday looking at MH parks; I'm tired.
[17:56:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I've tried all combinations of probe_parport/no probe_parport, with the parallel port set to epp 1.9/epp 1.7/normal mode in the BIOS
[17:57:16] <SWPadnos> the only thing I haven't tried is changing the base address, which is a longshot since I've verified it's correct (278)
[18:05:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos what kind of machien is this?
[18:05:21] <SWPadnos> dual opteron
[18:05:34] <Jymmm> dell? Asus? model# ?
[18:05:45] <SWPadnos> SuperMicro motherboard, H8DCE
[18:06:04] <SWPadnos> dual NForce Pro chipsets (2200 and 2050)
[18:06:36] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should try plugging in a printer, to make sure the port is good.
[18:06:49] <Jymmm> BIOS version?
[18:07:16] <SWPadnos> not quite the latest
[18:07:28] <Jymmm> That be my FIRST thing to do
[18:07:30] <Jymmm> R 1.1b
[18:07:32] <Jymmm> is the latest
[18:07:36] <SWPadnos> but the only differences (noticed in setup anyway) are related to NUMA memory addressing
[18:07:52] <SWPadnos> I went through the entire BIOS setup with a friend who has the latest BIOS
[18:07:56] <Jymmm> BIOS controls EVERYTHING, period.
[18:08:02] <SWPadnos> I know that
[18:08:12] <Jymmm> Well, JUST DO IT!
[18:08:14] <Jymmm> =)
[18:08:25] <Jymmm> does his work ?
[18:08:42] <SWPadnos> I tend to treat workststions as though they were servers: if it ain't broke - *DON't UPDATE IT!!!*
[18:08:56] <SWPadnos> I'don't expect him to use a parallel port at all
[18:09:02] <SWPadnos> but the machines work OK
[18:09:30] <Jymmm> If there's a BIOS update... dont ask questions, just upgrade.
[18:09:52] <Jymmm> Drivers/SW/OS, that's another story.
[18:13:05] <SWPadnos> on the contrary - changing the BIOS can do weird things like change the PCI scan order, which can cause disks to move around unexpectedly
[18:13:34] <Jymmm> and?
[18:13:54] <SWPadnos> SuperMicro basically says that if you have a system that works, and a BIOS update doesn't fix a specific problem you're having, you shouldn't upgrade
[18:13:55] <Jymmm> So, you have to reinstall... worse case scenario.
[18:13:56] <SWPadnos> I agree with that
[18:14:04] <Jymmm> And you have a problem.
[18:14:21] <SWPadnos> but the update says nothing about "fixing parallel port to work with EMC"
[18:14:30] <SWPadnos> or the parallel port at all, for that matter
[18:14:51] <Jymmm> I just dl'ed it, it doesn't say anything. and I've had LOTS of BIOS that dont actually say anything, but resolve the problem too.
[18:14:54] <SWPadnos> so there's no reason to think that the update will help this problem
[18:15:36] <SWPadnos> sure, I know that happens, but this is a server motherboard, and the way SM works is very different from Asus or ABit or any of the other consumer manufacturers
[18:15:57] <SWPadnos> I may do the update (though there are problems that my friend had that I don't want, and may be due to the BIOS update)
[18:21:25] <jepler> SWPadnos: when you load the real parport_pc module, what is printed in dmesg?
[18:21:39] <SWPadnos> durned good question. I'll check
[18:23:27] <jepler> SWPadnos: is this to use one of Elson's boards, or hal_parport?
[18:23:45] <SWPadnos> hal_parport
[18:23:53] <SWPadnos> I saw nothing in dmesg
[18:24:13] <SWPadnos> I think I'll reboot, and check to see whether parport_pc is getting loaded automatically
[18:25:00] <SWPadnos> weird - it actually rebooted with the magma kernel
[18:25:13] <cradek> maybe the next thing to try is to disable the "exclusive" code in hal_parport and see if it works with all the linux probes done
[18:33:37] <SWPadnos> I still need to transfer my PGP key to that machine - I don't have a checkout there
[18:33:58] <cradek> or I could add another key
[18:35:25] <SWPadnos> no sense crowding the key ring :)
[18:38:49] <SWPLinux> dmesg reports "ppdev: user-space parallel port driver"
[18:39:04] <SWPLinux> /proc/interrupts shows no IRQ7 user
[18:39:20] <SWPLinux> dmesg dod show a spurious INT7
[18:39:31] <SWPLinux> s/dod/did/
[18:40:27] <SWPLinux> lsmod shows parport loaded, in use by ppdev and lp
[18:41:51] <SWPLinux> /proc/ioports shows nothing at 278, and nothing for parport or lp
[18:42:01] <cradek> you think ppdev is some kind of replacement for parport_pc?
[18:42:23] <jepler> did you just do 'modprobe parport_pc'? You have to do 'modprobe -i parport_pc' to really load the module
[18:42:25] <SWPLinux> must be
[18:42:53] <SWPLinux> this si the line from lsmod:
[18:42:55] <SWPLinux> steve@opteron-32-ubuntu:~$ lsmod | grep par
[18:42:57] <SWPLinux> parport 29640 2 ppdev,lp
[18:43:36] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/ (.latex2html-init Makefile Submakefile lyxdep.py):
[18:43:36] <CIA-8> build HTML version of documentation -- requires latex2html be installed
[18:43:36] <CIA-8> (configure test for latex2html should be written but is not yet)
[18:44:05] <SWPLinux> I wonder what would happen if I plugged in the other SATA drive right now (the one that has my key on it
[18:44:07] <SWPLinux> )
[18:44:26] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
[18:45:05] <jepler> well that was fast!@
[18:45:34] <jepler> uh how did I screw that up?
[18:45:38] <SWPLinux> missing endif - make clean didn't even run
[18:45:44] <SWPLinux> :)
[18:45:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: duh
[18:45:56] <SWPLinux> forgot to save before committing?
[18:46:03] <SWPLinux> no - that can't be
[18:46:43] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
[18:47:26] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): check for latex2html and disable documentation building if it is not present
[18:48:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/debian/ (control control.in): latex2html is required to build the html format of the documentation
[18:51:45] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:55:14] <davidf> hi
[18:55:20] <alex_joni> hi
[18:55:27] <davidf> hey alex_joni
[18:56:06] <davidf> Hey, I have made good progress learning how the BASE_PERIOD etc affect MAX_VEL, etc,
[18:56:21] <davidf> But now I'm seeing something real strange.
[18:56:38] <davidf> Maybe you or someone might have some insight?
[18:57:08] <alex_joni> davidf: so far.. no :)
[18:57:17] <alex_joni> maybe after you explain the problem ..
[18:57:25] <davidf> I found I could lower BASE_PERIOD to 12000 nano with no prblem, and get 130 in/sec velocity nice and smooth.
[18:57:55] <davidf> But now, my mill overshoots by about 10 thou on a 9 inch x move.
[18:58:21] <davidf> I played with step_gen kinematics (re the need for headroom)
[18:58:27] <davidf> Made no difference.
[18:58:34] <davidf> Funny thing is,
[18:58:40] <cradek> you get overshoot with steppers?
[18:58:47] <davidf> yes.
[18:58:54] <davidf> Funny thing is,
[18:59:06] <davidf> I did this several times:
[18:59:11] <alex_joni> davidf: overshoot usually happens on low accels
[18:59:24] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: must create the docs/html directory
[18:59:28] <davidf> ok.
[18:59:40] <cradek> alex_joni: why?
[18:59:42] <alex_joni> davidf: it's not something you want to live with..
[18:59:48] <davidf> Anyway, let me tell you this weird thing:
[18:59:52] <alex_joni> cradek: usually if the stepgen has too low accel
[19:00:05] <alex_joni> and it can't keep up with the accel TP is putting up, it stays behind
[19:00:11] <davidf> I did a move to x=9.
[19:00:19] <davidf> meter said x=9.0000
[19:00:30] <davidf> I turned off emc.
[19:00:37] <davidf> (ie, closed it.
[19:00:58] <davidf> I restarted, and the x position came up at start as 9.0104.
[19:01:10] <davidf> Now that is just about the error I had.
[19:01:28] <davidf> Did that 3 or 4 times, same result each time.
[19:01:31] <cradek> oh you mean it's stopping too far? not going past and backing up?
[19:01:40] <davidf> right.
[19:01:50] <alex_joni> this sounds more like commanded vs. actual
[19:01:56] <alex_joni> and the problem with step size
[19:02:00] <cradek> do you have backlash configured on the axis? what is the scale and deadband?
[19:02:57] <davidf> It doesnt seem to be backlash either. Several 1 inch moves in same dir give same result, after repositioning my ruler after first one to eliminate backlash measurement error.
[19:03:12] <davidf> Backlash=0 on all axes.
[19:03:48] <davidf> OH! wait a sec... I was playing with that in another file. Maybe I left it. hang on...
[19:05:10] <davidf> No, backlash = 0.
[19:05:21] <cradek> what's input scale on that axis? deadband?
[19:05:23] <alex_joni> davidf: can you pastebin the ini ?
[19:05:28] <cradek> good idea
[19:05:35] <alex_joni> pastebin.ca
[19:05:39] <davidf> Yeah, brb
[19:06:44] <SWPadnos> he's got 8000 or 16000 steps / inch, so that's a pretty big error as a number of steps
[19:06:50] <cradek> ok
[19:07:18] <SWPadnos> we may also need to see the hal files
[19:07:44] <davidf> http://pastebin.ca/146628
[19:08:09] <cradek> which axis is doing this?
[19:08:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no deadband at all
[19:08:47] <davidf> except for the home signals, Halfile is the standard_pinout. But I'll put it up anyway...
[19:08:49] <cradek> I notice that too
[19:08:54] <cradek> wonder if it defaults to something crazy
[19:09:02] <davidf> deadband?
[19:09:23] <davidf> where should that param be?
[19:09:27] <SWPadnos> and FERROR is set to 0.010 with MAX_FERROR at 0.050
[19:09:45] <davidf> I edited that from inch.ini as supplied /c emc.
[19:09:56] <SWPadnos> so a G0 move will allow 0.050 of error and still consider the position to be within tolerance
[19:10:10] <cradek> but that wouldn't explain a wrong endpoint
[19:10:14] <alex_joni> I would still increase STEPGEN_MAXACCEL.. just to be safe
[19:10:28] <davidf> ah... thats waht I was sometimes seeing. at least .0325.
[19:10:46] <cradek> I guess we don't have deadband in stepper configs now, "max" doesn't have one
[19:10:47] <SWPadnos> there should be no PID, so it's true that the endpoint should be exact
[19:10:53] <alex_joni> davidf: you only should get FERROR, MAX_FERROR is at full speed
[19:11:06] <davidf> so I think I might have messed with that when I was getting all those following errors the other day...
[19:11:07] <SWPadnos> if it's a G0, that's full speed ...
[19:11:21] <davidf> g01.
[19:11:30] <davidf> g01 x9 f60
[19:11:32] <alex_joni> davidf: which axis causes troubles?
[19:11:33] <cradek> no we're talking about a wrong stopped position - I think ferror doesn't have anything to do with it
[19:11:33] <alex_joni> X?
[19:11:34] <SWPadnos> what feed rate, or does it matter?
[19:11:49] <davidf> see 3 lines up.
[19:11:53] <SWPadnos> right ;)
[19:12:09] <SWPadnos> does it matter though - if you o F30 is the error lower?
[19:12:10] <davidf> I can get 130 in/sec now SWPadnos !
[19:12:12] <SWPadnos> s/o/do/
[19:12:16] <SWPadnos> cool!
[19:12:24] <cradek> how do commanded and exact position compare when it's stopped?
[19:12:27] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[19:12:42] <davidf> Thanks for the help there. BASE_PERIOD=12000 @733 MHz P3
[19:12:46] <alex_joni> davidf: can you humor me and increase STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to 1.2 for X ?
[19:13:13] <davidf> sure, that doesn't seem too neurotic alex_joni
[19:13:20] <davidf> hang onn...
[19:13:33] <cradek> I'm still not clear on what you're seeing that's wrong
[19:13:50] <cradek> I need to start again at the beginning
[19:13:56] <alex_joni> I'm not sure (maybe I missed) on what axis the error is..
[19:14:05] <cradek> x
[19:14:15] <alex_joni> I see Y has 15-20% more STEPGEN limits then the normal ones
[19:14:18] <davidf> cradek, : Actual pos after 9 inch move = about 9.01 to 9.035
[19:14:35] <cradek> how measured?
[19:14:45] <alex_joni> on X, the MAX_ACCEL is 1.0 and STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 1.05 (which seems a bit low as headroom)
[19:15:13] <cradek> have you put a mark on your motor shaft to see if it turns an integer number of turns?
[19:15:28] <davidf> yeas, forget y z and a. I have been playing with x and the traj stuff w/o editing the others, so there will be that kind of thing.
[19:15:45] <SWPadnos> are you sure your screws are that accurate?
[19:16:06] <cradek> that's why I asked about the motor shafts
[19:16:18] <SWPadnos> right - I was just phrasing it anotherway :)
[19:16:33] <davidf> Before now, I had extremely tight tolerances. The mill is pretty good, & almost new.
[19:16:54] <cradek> but still, this test is simple and eliminates a lot of possible problems
[19:16:56] <davidf> But, maybe a few excursions at 120 in/min loosened it up.
[19:17:27] <davidf> But i can't hardly imagine it woiuld have done much that fast.
[19:17:46] <SWPadnos> is this a sherline type machine?
[19:18:05] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: at 120 IPM? I doubt it..
[19:18:11] <SWPadnos> heh - good point :)
[19:18:20] <davidf> No re the motor shafts, Taig re the mill. 12 on x, 5.5 on y.
[19:18:34] <cradek> .02 inch is half a turn of the motor shaft with 20tpi screws, you should be able to see it in the dark
[19:18:42] <davidf> 136 in/minute!
[19:18:52] <davidf> really.
[19:18:54] <davidf> :)
[19:19:07] <davidf> I won't be doing that often... :D
[19:19:33] <cradek> humor me please
[19:19:38] <davidf> 268 oz-in motoer at 2.0 amp, rated 2.8 amp
[19:19:49] <davidf> oh yes. just a second...
[19:19:56] <cradek> mark the motor shaft with a sharpie, G0 some integer number of inches, look at the mark each time
[19:20:40] <davidf> ok, goo idea. Another thing, maybe the motor connectors are pulling out/in too right?
[19:20:50] <davidf> good, not goo. :)
[19:20:52] <cradek> on a sherline the leadnuts are held with some set screws
[19:21:05] <cradek> anything can get loose, .010 is hard to see sometimes
[19:21:13] <davidf> yes.
[19:21:50] <davidf> let me check that out give me a few minutes to look at all that stuff.
[19:21:56] <cradek> cool
[19:22:44] <alex_joni> davidf: remember to test one bit at a time
[19:23:00] <alex_joni> don't mix & test more than one thing, or you'll never know what the cause was
[19:23:02] <cradek> haha, as we're all telling him to try different things
[19:23:14] <alex_joni> yeah, I know.. but a list should do :D
[19:23:33] <alex_joni> cradek: I know I've got bitten more than once by fixing machines like that
[19:23:41] <alex_joni> turn 5 screws, and it works
[19:23:45] <cradek> yep
[19:23:52] <alex_joni> then suddenly it doesn't again.. and you're back at square 1
[19:24:09] <cradek> or looking for software bugs when you have loose setscrews instead
[19:24:17] <alex_joni> yeah, that too
[19:24:21] <cradek> have to start at the beginning and test one thing at a time
[19:24:33] <davidf> I understand not introducing more that one var at a time if possible.
[19:29:01] <davidf> ok, test 1:
[19:29:44] <davidf> My mill has indexer indicators marked off at 50 / turn, 20 TPI so that's .001 / graticule.
[19:30:04] <davidf> moved 5 inches, back & forth, right on the money.
[19:30:51] <davidf> BTW I didn't mean that to sound the way it might have re the single var thing. Just read that again.
[19:31:35] <davidf> sounded like I was sarcastic or something. didn't mean it that way at all.
[19:31:41] <cradek> oh not at all
[19:31:53] <cradek> so 5" moves work right
[19:31:54] <davidf> hard to tell on line sometimes.
[19:32:03] <davidf> to the tenth.
[19:32:20] <davidf> On the motor shaft that is...
[19:32:26] <cradek> ok
[19:32:48] <davidf> any move is off a bit on measurement with my steel rule.
[19:33:07] <cradek> so you have a mechanical problem after the motor shaft?
[19:33:15] <davidf> I have a 1" dial guage. Maybe I should set that up.
[19:33:30] <cradek> you can see .010 on a rule?
[19:33:47] <davidf> Well we don't know at this point if its mechanical or not do we?
[19:34:01] <davidf> sure, no problem.
[19:34:02] <SWPLinux> if the motor shaft is in the correct position, then it's mechanical
[19:34:03] <cradek> I thought you said the motor shaft turns exactly the right amount
[19:34:20] <davidf> 1/32 = .0325, it's about 1/3 of that...
[19:34:40] <davidf> oh, of course. dumb me.
[19:34:46] <jepler> you can preview the HTML version of the emc2 documentation here: http://bald.unpy.net/emc2-docs/
[19:35:03] <jepler> (it's the same stuff that's in the PDF-format, but organized a bit differently, and of course in a different format...)
[19:35:43] <alex_joni> looks nice..
[19:36:20] <davidf> OK cradek & SWPadnos , I see the light. If the motor moves exactly right it has to be mechanical.
[19:36:40] <SWPadnos> ding!
[19:36:43] <cradek> ok good :-)
[19:36:45] <alex_joni> ding ding ding
[19:37:13] <davidf> Hmm... I did have a crash at something like 100 in/minute... ouch.
[19:37:23] <cradek> ouch
[19:37:27] <davidf> bonk bonk crunch ding.
[19:37:43] <SWPLinux> ding ding ding DONG!
[19:38:04] <SWPLinux> somebody should paint over those oscilliscope images ;)
[19:38:50] <davidf> but it's al tables & small, not a real strong motor, and shaft attachment is via 4 small nylon shear pins. Hmmm...
[19:39:03] <davidf> Beter check those to start with, eh?
[19:40:29] <davidf> swpadnos, does the above mean I rang swp-etc when I typed swp tab?
[19:40:31] <SWPLinux> what is the screw pitch?
[19:40:36] <davidf> 20
[19:41:04] <davidf> swplinux any rel to SWPadnos ?
[19:41:14] <SWPLinux> my two machines are very close to each other - I just type on whichever one I'm at at the time :)
[19:41:32] <SWPLinux> they're me and I - myself is out at the moment
[19:41:33] <davidf> oh ok.
[19:41:53] <davidf> Here's one to tease the noodle:
[19:42:35] <davidf> Brothers and sisters have I none...
[19:42:47] <davidf> But my uncles nephew...
[19:42:55] <davidf> Is my Father's son.
[19:43:04] <davidf> What relation is he to me?
[19:43:08] <davidf> :)
[19:43:09] <alex_joni> he is me ;)
[19:43:11] <SWPLinux> he is me :)
[19:43:19] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: I was me faster
[19:43:24] <davidf> darn you guys are smart.
[19:43:28] <SWPLinux> you are the only you, alex
[19:43:30] <SWPLinux> ;)
[19:43:37] <A-L-P-H-A> 100 units of threaded inserts AKA tee-nuts, 10-32, 5/16, 3prong, .75" base, 1/4 barrel dia - $10.25/CDN + 14% tax [if there]
[19:43:42] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: couldn't handle more than one..
[19:43:47] <SWPLinux> heh
[19:43:52] <A-L-P-H-A> not too bad.
[19:44:13] <SWPLinux> threaded inserts aren't T-nuts
[19:44:15] <davidf> from Readers Digest IQ test- Average time alloted something like 2-3 minutes.
[19:44:27] <SWPLinux> they never were too smart ;)
[19:44:35] <davidf> Pretty good for old guys.
[19:44:56] <davidf> Well, consider the readership.
[19:45:02] <davidf> :)
[19:45:02] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPLinux, it is on mcmaster.com
[19:45:59] <davidf> ok, to shear pin checking. Lucily it's just nylon 1/6th id plastic tube.
[19:46:02] <SWPLinux> the 3-prong thing is a clue- those are press inserts that are supposed to go into wood or plastic, I bet
[19:47:00] <davidf> Need those T nuits for a mill table or what?
[19:47:03] <SWPLinux> ok - "tee nuts" there isn't the same as T-nuts for machine clamping applications
[19:47:08] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPLinux, look up tee-nut on mcmaster.
[19:47:16] <alex_joni> anyone with good google skills around?
[19:47:23] <SWPLinux> I'm looking at the pictures right now
[19:47:25] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, not me.
[19:47:28] <SWPLinux> yep
[19:47:29] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is looking for a daasheet for MG200J2YS45
[19:47:37] <SWPLinux> which is?
[19:47:41] <SWPLinux> (IC, motor, ...)
[19:47:44] <alex_joni> datasheet even
[19:47:47] <davidf> www.enco.com maybe too..
[19:47:50] <alex_joni> TRANSISTOR IGBT POWER MODULE
[19:48:02] <alex_joni> from Toshiba
[19:48:07] <davidf> www.littlemachineshop.com for small mills, etc.
[19:48:36] <davidf> for the T nuts that is.
[19:49:28] <SWPLinux> how about the MG200J2YS50?
[19:49:40] <SWPLinux> I bet the end is the current/ voltage rating
[19:49:50] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: I have that one
[19:49:56] <SWPLinux> nevermind :)
[19:50:41] <alex_joni> these are old.. the YS50 is from 1997
[19:50:45] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, MG200J2YS45 is obsolete.
[19:51:56] <A-L-P-H-A> MG200J2YS45 # 197470 IGBT MODULE FOR MILLER
[19:51:56] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: I know that, but I want to know what I could use instead
[19:52:06] <A-L-P-H-A> you'd need to check with toshiba.
[19:53:11] <SWPLinux> well, the ...45 is a 600V/200A part
[19:53:14] <SWPLinux> if that helps
[19:53:23] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: thanks..
[19:53:26] <A-L-P-H-A> can 300 amps be okay?
[19:53:43] <SWPLinux> probably, but the switching time and power may be different
[19:53:54] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Electronics/ListingM1528a11-1.html
[19:54:12] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: if you have snubber resistors around them, then it won't really work ok with some other transister
[19:55:00] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, call toshiba, and ask them what's a replacement model.
[19:56:10] <A-L-P-H-A> appearantly the part is obsolete, but there's still tons of people that have them for sale.
[19:59:12] <davidf> Guys, Shear pins, linkake are fine... Lead screw nut, shaft feel tight & all good...
[19:59:34] <SWPLinux> I'd use something better than a ruler to measure then :)
[19:59:52] <SWPLinux> you're talking about an error that's about the size of an amoeba
[20:00:00] <davidf> You know, I just realized I can't see any way that I could OVER shoot if the lead screw and nut can't slip.
[20:00:11] <SWPLinux> the ruler can move, I bet
[20:00:16] <davidf> So I'm guessing that ruler is off!
[20:00:26] <SWPLinux> actually, if there's backlash, you can overshoot
[20:00:30] <davidf> Had it C-clamped to the table.
[20:00:49] <SWPLinux> since the screw stops quickly, but the table has momentum, it might coast until it hits the other side of the screw
[20:00:59] <davidf> Right, but I made a 1 inch forward move, then repositioned the ruler.
[20:01:04] <cradek> it also depends which way you stopped before placing the ruler
[20:01:18] <davidf> yes see above.
[20:01:27] <SWPLinux> get out the indicator - that's my vote :)
[20:01:34] <cradek> aye
[20:01:36] <davidf> right.
[20:01:54] <davidf> First I have to reassemle this pile of stuff.
[20:01:56] <davidf> :)
[20:05:53] <A-L-P-H-A> dial indicator! get even more accuracy.
[20:05:59] <A-L-P-H-A> or the electron microscope.
[20:06:07] <SWPLinux> laser interferometer
[20:06:36] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, electron microscope would give you better resolution, and accuracy... that is if you had a scale small enough to measure it
[20:06:54] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Come on, hardly accurate...
[20:06:57] <SWPLinux> true, but not as easy to put a machine into one :)
[20:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... plus the distance it can actually view is very very very small.
[20:07:40] <A-L-P-H-A> like the POV I mean.
[20:07:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: measuring millionths of a micron?! Might as well use elephants as a unit of measurement!
[20:07:47] <SWPLinux> FOV, even
[20:08:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I like hedgehogs instead.
[20:08:10] <SWPLinux> millionths of a micron -I'm not sure a SEM can do that
[20:08:15] <SWPLinux> abdgers
[20:08:17] <SWPLinux> badgers
[20:08:28] <alex_joni> back to microns ?
[20:08:31] <A-L-P-H-A> but isn't there a real measurement unit called hedgehogs?
[20:08:35] <alex_joni> thought you guys live in the inch world :D
[20:09:20] <davidf> no, hedgehogs here... 1/16th hedgehog, 1/8 gedgehog, ...
[20:09:22] <cradek> % units inch hedgehog
[20:09:22] <cradek> Unknown unit 'hedgehog'
[20:10:08] <SWPLinux> gaah - I can't seem to get the SATA HD to show up when I hot-plug it. bummer
[20:11:23] <davidf> mh (milihedgehog,) ch, (cubic hedgehog...)
[20:15:11] <Jymmm> http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictH.html
[20:15:50] <jepler> maybe you're thinking of hogshead (a volume measurement)?
[20:21:07] <Jymmm> hogshead unit of capacity equal to 63 gallons
[20:21:55] <Jymmm> Heh... mutchkin old unit of liquid measurement equal to 3/4 of an imperial pint
[20:24:04] <Jymmm> lol... butt unit of volume equal to two hogsheads or 126 gallons
[20:24:42] <Jymmm> How did they come up with this one.... dol unit for measuring intensity of pain
[20:27:09] <jepler> "douleur" is french for "pain"
[20:27:16] <jepler> so some french guy made it up?
[20:27:28] <Jymmm> cradek jepler Ok, I tried booting off of ubuntu 6.06.1 and can't do it. any other ideas on teh axis thing?
[20:27:38] <Jymmm> MArque De Saude ?
[20:27:42] <Jymmm> (sp)
[20:28:01] <SWPLinux> he was spanish, I think
[20:28:08] <alex_joni> Marquis de Sade ?
[20:28:20] <SWPLinux> right
[20:28:33] <Jymmm> http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/desade.htm
[20:28:48] <alex_joni> Donatien Alphonse Fran├žois de Sade was born in Paris into an aristocratic family.
[20:28:56] <SWPLinux> I see. my bad
[20:29:05] <SWPLinux> * SWPLinux never liked history anyway
[20:29:33] <Jymmm> The original publisher of BDSM
[20:30:09] <alex_joni> hmm.. XOrg-core updated today on Ubuntu for me
[20:30:18] <SWPLinux> careful - my wife's reading the scrollback
[20:30:32] <Jymmm> why?
[20:30:49] <SWPLinux> because her computer died, and she's chacking email on mine :)
[20:30:58] <Jymmm> ah
[20:31:01] <SWPLinux> err - checking
[20:31:12] <Jymmm> you need a backup laptop
[20:31:39] <SWPLinux> uh-oh - she's typing
[20:31:42] <Jymmm> nothing fancy, just enough of the basics.
[20:31:50] <SWPLinux> got one
[20:31:59] <SWPLinux> I should stick her with the small panel PC :)
[20:32:11] <SWPLinux> (800x600, celeron 500)
[20:32:19] <SWPadnos> Hey, can you guys tell my sweet, adorable hubby to fix my computer or I'll have to bug him more?
[20:32:26] <SWPLinux> bitch
[20:32:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: lol
[20:32:55] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: stop wasting time, and start fixing puters
[20:32:57] <SWPLinux> I mean - could one of you guys tell my sweet, adorable wife, that these things take time and a large budget :)
[20:32:57] <jepler> Ingrid knows not to complain about a computer being unreliable or slow, because she knows I'll just buy a new, faster one...
[20:33:20] <SWPadnos> That
[20:33:21] <alex_joni> jepler: oddly I lost that urge lately
[20:33:31] <jepler> alex_joni: good for you .. I still fight with it, however
[20:33:40] <SWPadnos> That's ok as long as it's FOR ME.
[20:33:46] <jepler> at least 3 times a week I go look at the price for AMD "X2" CPUs
[20:33:52] <SWPLinux> I think I will - fix hers fast (with one of mine), then "replace" mine with a newer faster one
[20:33:53] <Jymmm> WifeOFSWPadnos: I'm sure he'd be happy to let you have his computer, and he can pick up another one.
[20:34:03] <alex_joni> x2? I don't even know what that is..
[20:34:18] <SWPLinux> they're pretty cheap - the dual-cores
[20:34:19] <jepler> alex_joni: It's their "dual core" CPU
[20:34:24] <SWPLinux> $100 or so for an X2-3700
[20:34:40] <alex_joni> I might consider getting a very good dual processor PC soon
[20:34:47] <alex_joni> workstation actually
[20:34:54] <alex_joni> might be 2 x dual-core
[20:35:31] <alex_joni> for some simulation purposes
[20:35:31] <jepler> I haven't heard of X2=3700 .. I thought the slow one was 3800, and about $150
[20:35:47] <SWPLinux> maybe I'm having a thinko
[20:36:03] <jepler> Intel's cheapest dual core is about $100 at newegg
[20:36:25] <SWPLinux> alex_joni: make sure your software will take advantrage of multiple processors
[20:36:45] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: even if it doesn't.. room for other apps
[20:36:57] <alex_joni> no reason against a multi-processor system really
[20:37:00] <jepler> ah, there's a new -3600 part .. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-x2-3600.html
[20:37:02] <SWPLinux> true, but not as good as you'd think
[20:37:06] <alex_joni> if it's fast enough I think
[20:37:12] <jepler> 'This processor is not yet included into the company price-list, however we tend to believe that it should sell at about $130-$140, which is $15-$20 less than the price of Athlon 64 X2 3800+.'
[20:37:20] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: for this one I'd want some serious GL accell
[20:37:28] <SWPLinux> if you get a dual-socket MB< the best CPU you can get for non-multi-CPU apps is the Opteron 256
[20:37:31] <alex_joni> and 2 x 19" LCDs
[20:37:58] <SWPLinux> for multi-cpu-capable, the best is a 285
[20:38:08] <SWPLinux> and the most affordable would probably be the 265
[20:38:24] <alex_joni> any good page nowadays to get back in synch ?
[20:38:32] <alex_joni> I used to read tomshardware a while ago ;)
[20:38:35] <SWPLinux> heh -like my machine. dual 244s, 7800GT video, dual 24" 1920x1200 LCDs
[20:38:55] <davidf> hey guys, looks like my travel overshoots by about .004 per inch.
[20:39:02] <SWPLinux> terrible ;)
[20:39:09] <davidf> Not entirely consistent, but fairly.
[20:39:42] <davidf> cradek, was it you who mentioned something about FERROR & round-off?
[20:39:56] <SWPLinux> I think that was me
[20:40:03] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:40:06] <alex_joni> cradek mentioned DEADBAND
[20:40:06] <cradek> that's just backlash I bet.
[20:40:10] <SWPLinux> but with stepgen, you should have zero "software error"
[20:40:26] <cradek> your handwheels will tell you for sure
[20:40:43] <davidf> backlaskh shows up when you reverse directions.
[20:41:00] <cradek> yes and no
[20:41:17] <cradek> you're moving so fast you may be "throwing" your axis to the other "side" of the backlash
[20:41:22] <davidf> I made a positive move first, then set the dial guage at 0, then a 1 inch move.
[20:41:39] <cradek> while your dial indicator is ... indicating, push the axis back and forth with your hand
[20:41:44] <davidf> g01 x=1.000 F10
[20:41:50] <davidf> prety slow.
[20:42:07] <davidf> ok.
[20:42:11] <cradek> could be your leadscrew?
[20:42:38] <davidf> .003 backlash by that method.
[20:42:48] <cradek> ok there you have it
[20:43:11] <cradek> are these acme threads or triangular?
[20:43:17] <davidf> even if it's not a reversal, huh?
[20:43:32] <alex_joni> davidf: the motor stops faster than the table
[20:43:46] <davidf> Triangulr I think, unfortunately.
[20:43:48] <alex_joni> table will still move, so it will stop at the other edge of the screw
[20:43:57] <cradek> .003 is great then, be happy
[20:44:06] <davidf> oh. momentum. Forgot that.
[20:44:13] <cradek> but you'll probably find it's different in different places along the screw :-/
[20:44:19] <SWPLinux> somebody mentioned that earlier ... ;)
[20:44:29] <davidf> yes they did.
[20:44:42] <davidf> I have no excuse.
[20:45:08] <davidf> Except senility.
[20:45:10] <cradek> you can try software backlash comp, but down that path lies madness I think
[20:45:41] <robin_sz> try the old "two nuts" method
[20:45:49] <davidf> I can see how that might be a problem. Especially since it changes over time anyway.
[20:46:12] <cradek> yeah two nuts with a spring between can work nicely for low cutting forces, but they increase drag (and wear) on the screw of course
[20:46:20] <robin_sz> indeed
[20:46:21] <davidf> I have an adjustable nut. Two set srcews in a bronze nut, 1" long.
[20:46:38] <robin_sz> well, get adjusting ;)
[20:46:50] <davidf> Split nut, one side.
[20:47:00] <cradek> before adjusting you might want to measure the backlash at several spots along the screw
[20:47:15] <cradek> you can get a feel for how tight you should make it then
[20:47:26] <davidf> ok.
[20:48:59] <robin_sz> today, i have had a good day slicing stainless
[20:49:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[20:49:09] <alex_joni> night all
[20:49:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: seen my message this morning?
[20:49:23] <robin_sz> the laser is cutting really good now, much better than usual
[20:49:26] <robin_sz> alex_joni, nope
[20:49:30] <robin_sz> email?
[20:49:31] <alex_joni> robin_sz: read about a nice 454W laser diode lately ;)
[20:49:32] <robin_sz> or irc
[20:49:34] <alex_joni> no, in here
[20:49:38] <robin_sz> heh
[20:49:42] <robin_sz> single bar?
[20:49:45] <alex_joni> yup
[20:49:49] <robin_sz> coo
[20:50:01] <alex_joni> lots of cool needed to operate it :D
[20:50:06] <robin_sz> I knew 150w was do able ... but thats 3 times ...
[20:50:11] <alex_joni> yup
[20:50:28] <robin_sz> a few of those and YAG rod ...
[20:50:28] <alex_joni> with 450W you can already cut some 1-2mm sheets
[20:50:46] <robin_sz> maybe 3mm even
[20:50:59] <alex_joni> now I'm gone..
[20:51:02] <robin_sz> bye
[20:52:20] <robin_sz> you cant actually use laser diodes directly, as the beam quality is poor, but fired into a YAG rod, they are very efficient
[21:15:48] <robin_sz> netsplit!
[22:21:49] <davidf> Hey guys.
[22:21:59] <davidf> Thanks for the help earlier...
[22:22:27] <davidf> Tightened nut, switched to 2000 uSteps. Big help
[22:23:01] <davidf> Looks like main source of error now is non-linear lead screw only.
[22:23:23] <davidf> Guess I need a real one for better accuracy than this.
[22:23:42] <SWPadnos> excellent!
[22:23:51] <davidf> But it's pretty good now.
[22:24:19] <davidf> Interesting, you can see the non-linearity easily.
[22:24:53] <cradek> is it a periodic error?
[22:25:21] <davidf> Set for 0 error at x=0, it goes up to 1.5 thou error and back down to 0 at 0.1 intervals, till x=.5 inch. Same thing on the way back.
[22:25:28] <davidf> Yes it is.
[22:25:36] <cradek> I replaced my (triangular) leadscrews with 1/4-16 acme for very little money
[22:25:44] <davidf> looks roughly sinusoidal
[22:26:44] <davidf> Really interesting. I can go back & forth from 0 to .5 at 60 in/min and you'd never know it was there unless you stop in between.
[22:27:02] <cradek> .5 is an integer number of turns
[22:27:15] <cradek> go to .45 (half a turn away) and I bet the error is at its max
[22:27:22] <davidf> How much for a 13" acme do you think? (1/2 inch)
[22:27:36] <cradek> your screws are 1/2-20?
[22:27:42] <davidf> ok i'll try that...
[22:27:49] <davidf> yes
[22:28:04] <cradek> 36" of 1/2-10 is $28
[22:28:10] <davidf> is that odd or something?
[22:28:23] <cradek> seems like a very fine thread for 1/2"
[22:28:32] <davidf> would 20 be about the same?
[22:28:43] <cradek> I don't think there is such a thing
[22:28:52] <davidf> Remember it's triangular.
[22:29:18] <davidf> Probably cant fit a 20 tpi acme on a 1/2 inch rod. :)
[22:29:26] <cradek> nope
[22:29:30] <davidf> But 10 would work.
[22:29:34] <cradek> you can get 3/8-16
[22:29:56] <davidf> 36 inches for $28 sound like a wiener to me.
[22:30:08] <davidf> weiner I mean.
[22:30:11] <cradek> yeah you'll have to come up with some nuts of course
[22:30:36] <cradek> you could get delrin anti-backlash nuts for some really nice results
[22:30:38] <davidf> Hmm, this could get bad.
[22:31:11] <davidf> pun-wise I mean.
[22:31:26] <davidf> Delrin will hold up ok huh?
[22:31:39] <cradek> depends what you want to cut I suppose, I'm no expert
[22:31:39] <davidf> How much for those?
[22:31:49] <cradek> I'm trying to figure out where I bought mine
[22:32:06] <davidf> mostly Al & brass, soft steel, plastic.
[22:33:00] <davidf> So re the integer # turns, you're thinking round-off error, or machining error in the screw?
[22:33:10] <cradek> oh definitely screw error
[22:33:51] <cradek> again you can see emc is doing the right thing by looking at your handwheel
[22:34:26] <davidf> yes thats right of course.
[22:36:05] <cradek> duh .45 is also an integer number of turns (.05/turn)
[22:36:16] <cradek> you need to check .475 to show the error I think
[22:37:17] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brass-Anti-Backlash-Acme-1-2-10-RH-Nut_W0QQitemZ230018414330QQcmdZViewItem
[22:37:22] <cradek> this is pretty
[22:37:38] <cradek> but for low cutting forces I bet a spring-loaded setup will work better
[22:38:18] <cradek> if you have a lathe and an angle grinder or somesuch, you could use some of your extra screw to make a tap
[22:38:38] <cradek> that's what fenn did to make his own delrin? nylon? nuts
[22:40:46] <davidf> actually the error is 0 at 4.75.
[22:40:58] <davidf> 0.475 I maen.
[22:41:12] <cradek> huh
[22:41:20] <davidf> maybe just wear.
[22:41:28] <cradek> maybe so
[22:41:41] <cradek> that wouldn't explain a sine error profile though
[22:42:31] <Mhel> Hello
[22:42:35] <cradek> hi
[22:43:05] <davidf> well I just took a swag. Only checked 6 points, & just saw it got up & back down
[22:43:25] <cradek> is .003 important for the parts you want to make?
[22:43:43] <davidf> No big deal. At least it's close enough for most stuff till I get a new lead screw.
[22:43:53] <Mhel> why invert don't work on parport? I'm using xylotex pinout ( I'm on a XP now EMC is on slack on a diff PC)
[22:44:15] <cradek> Mhel: you can use inverted parport outputs
[22:45:35] <Mhel> cradek, yeah the enable-out-invert doesn't work
[22:45:46] <cradek> Mhel: see http://linuxcnc.org/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf around page 49,50
[22:46:29] <cradek> I'm sure it does...
[22:46:41] <Mhel> cradek, that's how I learnt about the invert, but emc gives an error if i put invert.
[22:47:01] <Mhel> it's on page 50 actually
[22:47:07] <cradek> right
[22:47:16] <cradek> what command exactly do you have in the halfile?
[22:48:09] <Mhel> it's the default xylotex pinout, I just added -invert after -out, is that correct?
[22:48:28] <cradek> no, look at the page 49 diagram
[22:48:33] <cradek> the pin's name doesn't change
[22:48:41] <cradek> the invert bit is a parameter for each pin
[22:49:00] <cradek> so you use something like "setp parport.0.pin-02-out-invert true"
[22:49:25] <Mhel> no, I didn't
[22:49:29] <Mhel> Ill have to read more
[22:49:36] <Mhel> thanks
[22:50:09] <cradek> welcome
[22:50:26] <Mhel> one more thing, where is halconfig.tcl lcoated, axis can't seem to find it
[22:50:54] <cradek> halconfig.tcl isn't in the release, it wasn't finished so we didn't include it
[22:51:05] <cradek> there is halshow, which lets you look at the hal but not change it
[22:51:31] <Mhel> ok, I just get an error halconfig is not there.
[22:51:39] <cradek> if you're not running emc 2.0.3 you might want to update (I think the halconfig/halshow problem is fixed in 2.0.3)
[22:52:01] <Mhel> I'm using 2.03
[22:52:20] <cradek> checking...
[22:52:49] <cradek> maybe you didn't update the emc2-axis package to the latest too?
[22:53:03] <cradek> in my 2.0.3 with axis, the machine menu says "show hal configuration" and correctly runs halshow
[22:53:34] <Mhel> actually I'm a bit confuse with the version of axis, 1.32a is what I got
[22:53:52] <Mhel> but, there's a mention of 1.4 for debian
[22:54:07] <cradek> oh you're not using the ubuntu packages? that explains it I guess
[22:54:22] <cradek> I'm not sure if it's right everywhere (anywhere) else
[22:55:10] <Mhel> I'm using slackware, I happen to have it already from a magazine, and I'm still on dialup :(
[22:55:12] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[22:55:19] <cradek> it was a struggle to keep emc2 and axis in sync, now it'll be better since they are together
[22:55:37] <cradek> sure, I see
[22:56:09] <Mhel> yeah, I couldn't install axis separately, but it's easy building it inside emc
[22:56:18] <cradek> I think the Ubuntu deal where they will send you CDs for free is really nice for dialup folks
[22:56:31] <cradek> you have to be a bit patient though
[22:56:43] <Mhel> Ill try that
[22:57:01] <Mhel> the thing is I'm new to linux too, and didn't know any better
[22:57:10] <cradek> once that's going, updating emc over dialup will be quick and simple
[22:57:36] <cradek> if you got rtai and emc working on slackware by yourself, you're no longer "new" in my mind
[22:57:47] <cradek> building a realtime system is not a trivial task.
[22:58:02] <Mhel> but I'm confident with Linux now, once I learn how to go online with it, it's a big leap
[22:58:15] <Mhel> just patient with reading docs
[22:58:18] <cradek> great
[22:58:45] <cradek> just curious - what do you have to invert for the xylotex?
[22:59:15] <Mhel> I'm using gecko201, I have a homebuilt router
[22:59:44] <cradek> oh you said xylotex pinout, not xylotex
[22:59:45] <Mhel> in Axis directions are inverted, then I looked for info to change it and found -invert
[22:59:53] <cradek> ah
[23:00:02] <cradek> easier is to make INPUT_SCALE negative in the ini
[23:00:16] <Mhel> coold
[23:00:19] <Mhel> eek
[23:00:36] <cradek> either way will work fine
[23:00:56] <Mhel> atleast there's a way ..:)
[23:01:05] <cradek> yep
[23:01:25] <Mhel> what's your timzone btw, most of the time noone's here
[23:01:38] <cradek> I'm central time US
[23:01:48] <cradek> people are here all the time, just sometimes quiet
[23:02:01] <Mhel> ah, ok.
[23:02:51] <cradek> the regulars are mostly in US and Europe
[23:03:13] <Mhel> that's why.
[23:03:18] <cradek> where are you?
[23:03:41] <Mhel> I'm in montreal, originally from Philippines
[23:03:55] <SWPadnos> ~80 miles from me
[23:04:05] <SWPadnos> (I'm just outside of Burlington, VT)
[23:04:16] <cradek> UTC-4 now?
[23:04:33] <SWPadnos> I thikn so - 7:06 or so
[23:04:34] <Mhel> ?
[23:04:37] <cradek> we're mostly -7 to +3 I guess, you're in the middle
[23:05:04] <Mhel> gtg, and see if I could make the invert works thanks
[23:05:14] <cradek> ok good luck
[23:05:42] <cradek> I remember dialup when I had to disconnect when not using it... yuck.
[23:07:24] <cradek> http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue
[23:07:30] <cradek> oops!
[23:44:16] <jepler> oops indeed
[23:44:37] <cradek> wonder what they got wrong
[23:56:02] <dmess> hi all
[23:56:17] <jepler> hi dmess
[23:56:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.hal: wait-for-pin is no longer needed
[23:58:31] <dmess> i may pull this landing gear plan off WITHOUT any machines or manpower of mine own... for the same margin.. ; )
[23:59:32] <dmess> spindles seem to be lining UP.... like the stars do some time.. and PRETTY ones too..