#emc | Logs for 2006-08-16

[00:01:06] <mdynac> Jymmm: looks nice and clean lots o aluminum....
[00:01:26] <Jymmm> =)
[00:02:48] <mdynac> i am starting to mess around with panasonic ac servo drives, as we have a bunch of broken ones in the shop that they don't repair......go figure, it is becoming more and more of a throw away society....
[00:03:22] <Jymmm> Disposable Society
[00:03:38] <mdynac> unfortunately....
[00:03:51] <mdynac> my gain tho.....
[00:05:32] <Jymmm> Yeah, you dont get your TV fixed, you buy a new one. Same with microwaves, toasters, etc
[00:06:27] <mdynac> i'll say that the z axis motor drive in the brand new Chmer edm is a piece of shit.....just a simple h bridge with no protection, the whole circuit is the fuse....
[00:07:17] <Jymmm> are they at least in sockets so you dont have to resolder them?
[00:07:22] <mdynac> the magnetrons from mwaves are fun to play with.......
[00:08:18] <mdynac> no way a single sided consumer grade(non g10( pcb board, it burns also, everytime i look into that machine tool i think i am looking into a vcr....
[00:08:19] <Jymmm> never tried, too chicken. I dont own a lead suit.
[00:08:54] <mdynac> sockets cost more than labor in taiwan......
[00:09:12] <mdynac> so does wire.....
[00:09:32] <mdynac> they use no card cages....
[00:10:35] <mdynac> if two modules are 12 inches apart they use 11.9 inches of wire to connect them.....
[00:11:26] <mdynac> last time i checked my wire stretcher was broken.....
[00:13:02] <Jymmm> heh
[00:13:32] <robin_sz> dood!
[00:13:43] <mdynac> i think the punishment for using too much wire in Taiwan is public caning.......
[00:13:47] <robin_sz> are we well tonight?
[00:14:04] <mdynac> we;; enough.....
[00:14:18] <robin_sz> excellent
[00:14:20] <mdynac> just a few more silver bullets....
[00:14:32] <mdynac> and we will be fine....
[00:14:59] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has two silver bullets on his desk
[00:15:15] <mdynac> ahhh, two fisted drinker....
[00:15:27] <robin_sz> mmm . different silver bullet ;)
[00:15:35] <mdynac> apparently.....
[00:15:55] <mdynac> yer gonna go shoot Tonto.....
[00:16:33] <robin_sz> the high power LED laser modules are called silver bullets, because they are about bullet shaped, and err silver
[00:16:56] <mdynac> and what might we be doing with these?
[00:18:17] <robin_sz> waiting for an excuse to use them :)
[00:18:25] <robin_sz> these are only small ones, 25W
[00:18:46] <robin_sz> you can get 100W ones ...
[00:19:13] <robin_sz> http://www.laser2000.co.uk/lasers/diodes/diarray.htm
[00:19:39] <Jymmm> robin_sz cutting ?
[00:19:44] <Jymmm> the 25W I mean
[00:19:50] <robin_sz> shrug
[00:19:58] <robin_sz> beam quality isnt good enough
[00:20:06] <Jymmm> oh man..........
[00:20:15] <mdynac> i have an HP laser interferometer......
[00:20:16] <robin_sz> you can illuminate a YAG rod and get decent beam out of that
[00:21:14] <robin_sz> laser diode into YAG rod is about 80% efficient, pretty good really
[00:21:37] <mdynac> i use it to accurately measure 50 millionths table increments on edm machines
[00:22:48] <Jymmm> mdynac how much did that set you back?
[00:24:11] <mdynac> 250 at a machine tool auction, no one knew what it was, or at least no one was interested.....
[00:24:23] <Jymmm> robin_sz do you use a comma or a period for a decimal point?
[00:24:51] <mdynac> brb folks....
[00:29:44] <robin_sz> Jymmm, .
[00:29:50] <robin_sz> 0.001mm
[00:30:20] <Jymmm> ah, ok. I know some ppl use comma, just trying to find one of them =)
[00:30:27] <robin_sz> no, really?
[00:30:38] <Jymmm> WACK!
[00:30:41] <robin_sz> there is 1,000
[00:30:49] <robin_sz> for thousand
[00:30:57] <Jymmm> no, for decimal point
[00:31:02] <robin_sz> and in some parts 1'000 for 1000
[00:31:04] <Jymmm> not thousands seperator
[00:31:16] <Jymmm> wth char is that?!
[00:31:35] <robin_sz> and in some bits of europe you get 1,00 used in money
[00:31:36] <Jymmm> oh, nm
[00:31:42] <robin_sz> ' that one?
[00:31:56] <Jymmm> yeha, I have the resolution tiny here
[00:31:58] <Jymmm> '
[00:32:09] <robin_sz> single quote mark
[00:32:19] <Jymmm> looked like a period =)
[00:32:31] <robin_sz> ive seen comma used in money, but never as a decimal place
[00:32:55] <Jymmm> I've seen $1,000.00 just dont remember where
[00:33:06] <Jymmm> err... I've seen $1.000,00 just dont remember where
[00:33:18] <robin_sz> nah, really? coo.
[00:33:45] <robin_sz> you could check in Java ... that has the formatting for every single country and language under the sun
[00:33:50] <robin_sz> under the Sun, geddit?
[00:33:54] <robin_sz> oh nm
[00:33:55] <Jymmm> lol
[00:34:32] <robin_sz> that is one thing Java does do right ... local languages
[00:35:34] <Jymmm> Probably more lated to SunOs and just trickled down to Java
[00:35:39] <Jymmm> related
[00:35:44] <robin_sz> oh .. looky here ...
[00:35:55] <robin_sz> import java.text.NumberFormat;
[00:35:55] <robin_sz> import java.util.Locale;
[00:35:55] <robin_sz> public class DecimalFormat1 {
[00:35:55] <robin_sz> public static void main(String args[]) {
[00:35:55] <robin_sz> // get format for default locale
[00:35:56] <robin_sz> NumberFormat nf1 = NumberFormat.getInstance();
[00:35:58] <robin_sz> System.out.println(nf1.format(1234.56));
[00:36:00] <robin_sz> // get format for German locale
[00:36:02] <robin_sz> NumberFormat nf2 =
[00:36:04] <robin_sz> NumberFormat.getInstance(Locale.GERMAN);
[00:36:06] <robin_sz> System.out.println(nf2.format(1234.56));
[00:36:08] <robin_sz> }
[00:36:12] <robin_sz> }
[00:36:14] <robin_sz> If you live in the United States and run this program, the output
[00:36:16] <robin_sz> is:
[00:36:18] <robin_sz> 1,234.56
[00:36:20] <robin_sz> 1.234,56
[00:36:22] <robin_sz> germany! ...
[00:36:32] <robin_sz> locale.GERMAN has the formatting like you said!!
[00:36:42] <Jymmm> Cool.
[00:37:44] <robin_sz> Java is in many wyas bad, but they did get locales right
[00:39:30] <robin_sz> * robin_sz curses his Swiss client for number foramtting
[00:39:49] <Jymmm> lol
[00:39:57] <robin_sz> they are swiss, they have their machines set to swiss ...
[00:40:11] <Jymmm> is there a way to see what is sucking up all the hdd space?
[00:40:18] <robin_sz> and they dont want it formatted according to the locale.SWISS
[00:40:27] <robin_sz> grrr
[00:40:30] <jepler> robin_sz: I don't think it's so unusal for modern APIs to include number formatting.
[00:40:33] <jepler> python -c 'import locale; locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "de_DE.utf8"); print locale.format("%.2f", 1234.56, 3)'
[00:40:47] <jepler> robin_sz: (and that's just a wrapper around POSIX, I think)
[00:40:53] <robin_sz> probably
[00:41:37] <robin_sz> what Java got right is doing it locales right on non posixy platforms, and without adding a zillion windows language packs etc
[00:42:23] <jepler> oh that doesn't matter to me -- some people don't believe it, but the world consists of english-speaking people using operating systems that are 6 months to 3 years old
[00:42:36] <jepler> I should say, Unix operationg systems that are 6 months to 3 years old
[00:42:47] <robin_sz> Jymmm, try going to where you think the space is sucked up and doing du -sh
[00:43:14] <robin_sz> jepler, I would like to believe the world is that way, but some of my clients use macs!
[00:43:30] <robin_sz> ever tried a mac keyboard?
[00:43:59] <robin_sz> very weird
[00:44:07] <robin_sz> weirder still in french
[00:44:09] <jepler> umm not lately
[00:44:16] <robin_sz> weirder still in swiss german layout
[00:45:19] <robin_sz> on one contract I did, we were bored. the support desk had all the desktop machines locked down .. if you had a problem call support.
[00:46:05] <robin_sz> so .. we called support, "on this keyboard I get a ; when I press @ and a ~ when I press ; ..."
[00:46:27] <robin_sz> so they come along "oh thats easy, just got the worng codepage for the keybaord"
[00:46:52] <robin_sz> 2 hours later, he finally figures out we have been swapping the key caps over with a pair of pliers ;)
[00:47:06] <jepler> that's always a fun game to play
[00:47:23] <cradek> people look at the keys?
[00:47:34] <robin_sz> helpdesk droids do, yes
[00:47:56] <jepler> cradek: Ingrid got me, actually. She had only swapped 'm' and 'n', and it's one of those terrible split "ergonomic" keyboards so I'm already at a bit of a loss
[00:48:00] <jepler> and one of those letters is in my password
[00:48:08] <cradek> hahaha
[00:48:16] <cradek> mn is surely the best swap
[00:48:24] <jepler> I typed it wrong the first time, cursed the keyboard, and then carefully looked at the keycaps as I typed...
[00:48:34] <robin_sz> heh
[00:48:45] <cradek> those keyboards should all be thrown out
[00:48:52] <cradek> since I hate them it's clear that everyone else should too
[00:51:39] <robin_sz> seems fair
[00:56:02] <cradek> oh, and I speak english and use a unix OS that's 6 months - 3 years old
[00:59:15] <robin_sz> I speek english very good. I learn it from a book
[01:24:39] <wholepair> yay! EMC2 - have not been here in a while because my machine works great! - but I thought you peeps might be interested in this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/214734856/in/photostream/
[01:24:42] <wholepair> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/214734856/in/photostream/
[01:26:11] <robin_sz> * robin_sz goes to look
[01:29:41] <rayh> Nice job wholepair.
[01:30:56] <wholepair> Gfixler is the guy that posted the screen shot - I had told him about EMC2 about a two months ago - glad to see he is using it!
[01:32:22] <wholepair> he has some funny pictures of the things he does in his flickr gallery - I gotta run - thanks again to anyone here that works hard for emc and linux open source stuff!!! rock on - bye bye
[01:46:16] <IHateWinCNC> Greetings - does anybody know of a project to use EMC with the PCI-7200 cards?
[01:47:06] <jepler> no, but if you have register-level documentation there are people on this channel who can help you write a driver for it.
[01:49:47] <IHateWinCNC> everybody and their mother sells the board to do just about everything. My current evil WinCNC runs it without a driver. SDKs are available for linux as well. Problem is, I'm a complete hack when it comes to programming
[01:50:40] <jepler> I am looking at a pdf from http://www.web-tronics.com/12mbsec32dig.html and it looks like it would not be hard to use the digital inputs and outputs in a similar fashion to how emc2 uses the parallel port now -- to generate step waveforms, for instance.
[01:51:44] <IHateWinCNC> thats exactly what I need. I bought a practicalCNC 5x10 gantry, works fine, but it could really use EMC.
[01:52:14] <IHateWinCNC> Funny- I simultaniously ended up on the exact same page
[01:53:18] <jepler> does the practicalcnc use steppers or servos?
[01:54:09] <IHateWinCNC> can use both. I got the servo version, but feedback is done in hardware in a control box, which is reasonably well done
[01:54:33] <IHateWinCNC> it appears that it takes step/direction right out of the 7200 card
[01:54:38] <jepler> how does the PC communicate with the control box? step and direction signals on the PC7200?
[01:54:54] <IHateWinCNC> heh
[01:54:59] <IHateWinCNC> so thats good
[01:55:27] <IHateWinCNC> there's also a daughter board, which has a PIC on it, but thats just to handle limit switches
[01:56:31] <jepler> do you have any experience with compiling software on Linux? If it's just a matter of sending step pulses out of the PC7200 and reading some limit switch inputs, it sounds possible .. but it will be an adventure
[01:56:59] <IHateWinCNC> I've programmed
[01:57:06] <IHateWinCNC> not in C.....
[01:57:18] <IHateWinCNC> I have a good deal of electronic and PLC experience
[01:57:33] <IHateWinCNC> and I'm not an idiot
[01:57:56] <IHateWinCNC> so adventure is a good word, and I've got some time and $ on my hands, so I think it might be worth a shot
[01:58:08] <jepler> sounds good
[01:59:30] <IHateWinCNC> OK good, I'm glad to hear that the idea wasn't shot down instantly because of some glaring incompatibility
[01:59:41] <jepler> the first step is probably to get a version of Linux installed that can run realtime software. I recommend Ubuntu 6.06 "Dapper Drake" because you can be running emc2 in simulator mode without compiling anything.
[02:00:03] <jepler> most of the active emc2 developers are using either Ubuntu 6.06 or the older version
[02:00:36] <Jymmm> jepler CP/M RULES!
[02:00:47] <IHateWinCNC> Hm - maybe if I get good at this I can get a few of those old SCARA robots going. How horrible are the kinematic routines to deal with?
[02:00:51] <jepler> Jymmm: that's not what I meant when I said "the older version"
[02:01:07] <Jymmm> jepler LIES! ALL LIES! =)
[02:02:16] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: well, I'm not able to do all the math .. but the support is there. Here's a very slightly nontrivial kinematics that is in the development version of emc2: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/kinematics/rotatekins.c?rev=1.2
[02:03:07] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: there's also a tripod and a generic hexapod kinematics, the other files here: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/kinematics/
[02:03:40] <IHateWinCNC> OK - well probably in the next month or so I'll get in to this. I'm sure I can get as much help as I have tonight then?
[02:04:25] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: the channel is fairly active
[02:04:39] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: we also have some mailing lists if you prefer to communicate that way
[02:06:01] <IHateWinCNC> Fantastic sir. Ubuntu 6.06 it is.
[02:06:50] <cradek> if it's step-dir to the drives, you also could just hook it to the parallel port and be done
[02:07:15] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: after you install from the CD then head here for instructions to install emc2: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[02:07:29] <jepler> IHateWinCNC: drop by if you have any questions
[02:08:20] <IHateWinCNC> Thanks a bunch. I have a torch height controller to design and build first. NExt week. Good night guys, and thanks for the help
[02:09:06] <jepler> cradek: that sounds like a practical idea
[02:09:16] <Jymmm> cradek: YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIP! Err... broke my laptop!
[02:11:24] <cradek> £175 ($350?) seems a lot for that card
[02:16:35] <Jymmm> I found it for $239 qty 1, adn as low as $167 qty 500+
[02:16:50] <Jymmm> http://www.web-tronics.com/12mbsec32dig.html
[02:18:01] <Jymmm> Would something like that do better than paraport?
[02:31:00] <Jymmm> 12 mega BYTES per second transfer speed ?!?!?!
[03:04:54] <jepler> Jymmm: doesn't mean you'll get 6 million steps per second...
[03:06:01] <Jymmm> what about a cleaner pulse train ?
[03:09:12] <jepler> it all still depends on your BASE_PERIOD
[03:10:39] <Jymmm> Ok, then how does the PICO get around that?
[03:11:10] <jepler> it's got smarts on the board which generate the pulse train
[03:11:27] <jepler> as far as I read this board's documentation, the PC still generates the pulse train
[03:11:43] <Jymmm> Hmmm
[03:12:58] <Jymmm> I just cant' get around that BASE_PERIOD =(
[03:14:07] <jepler> goodnight
[03:14:16] <Jymmm> G'night Jeff
[03:17:49] <dmessier> sounds like a hot card..
[03:18:59] <Jymmm> Who was that masked man???
[03:59:57] <mdynac> i c Jymmm is still here....
[04:01:27] <Jymmm> Where?! That bastard owes me money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:02:26] <Jymmm> mdynac was it you that was going to play with some pci card?
[04:02:59] <Jymmm> no, someone else. my bad
[04:06:11] <A-L-P-H-A> later foos. I'm off.
[04:06:28] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A You're ALWAYS off =)
[04:06:56] <A-L-P-H-A> only cause you're so hawt, you get me off so quick.
[04:07:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A damn canook pervert!
[04:07:53] <Jymmm> oh yeah... Eh
[04:08:28] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A see ya
[04:08:59] <A-L-P-H-A> you weren't arrested? http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/15/prostitution.arrest.ap/index.html
[04:36:28] <mdynac> no, not me....at least not a pci type o' card.....
[05:10:27] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[05:11:47] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[12:17:29] <EvertL> a little back-to-basic question. the period of a thread, e.g. the servo thread, as specified in the ini file - is this a period that specifies an amount of time to sleep between the execution of its functions, or is it the total amount of time allowed for the execution of its functions, or is it some other interpretation?
[12:18:32] <cradek> the thread is run every periodseconds
[12:18:42] <cradek> period seconds
[12:18:59] <EvertL> what if the execution time of the thread is longer then its period?
[12:19:15] <alex_joni> then you'll have problems
[12:19:28] <alex_joni> e.g. the system will lock up completely
[12:19:31] <EvertL> then we lose hard RT
[12:19:41] <EvertL> alright, understood
[12:19:43] <EvertL> thanks
[12:19:59] <alex_joni> it will still run it every period, but there won't be any time left for the rest of linux :D
[12:24:11] <alex_joni> the only good thing is that RTAI detects if you start something that takes way too much time
[12:24:14] <alex_joni> and suspends it
[12:24:25] <alex_joni> something like borked code that doesn't return ..
[12:30:54] <EvertL> that's not really something i'd like though - but still better than a lock while testing i guess :-)
[12:33:53] <EvertL> btw, i won't be able to release the rtnet module this week, we can't yet figure out how to synchronize sending and recieving. we're going to do some performance tests first and then try to come up with a little scheme
[12:34:31] <EvertL> i hope that by next week we've a nice clean module
[12:37:35] <alex_joni> EvertL: sounds good
[12:39:45] <alex_joni> morning cradek
[13:12:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo all
[17:13:53] <Jymmm> Mornin Gents, and SWPadnos too!
[18:34:45] <etla> shhh
[18:34:59] <Jymmm> I'm hunt wabbit!
[18:47:45] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py: fix arc bug reported by Jonathan Stark
[18:53:52] <alex_joni> evening folks
[18:54:15] <mdynac> good afternoo to you too....
[18:54:55] <alex_joni> mdynac: how's the EDM going?
[18:55:35] <mdynac> slow but steady...
[18:55:49] <alex_joni> EDM is usually slow (I heard :D)
[18:56:05] <mdynac> yes it is....
[18:56:17] <alex_joni> actually I've seen a machine once.. wire
[18:56:23] <mdynac> the motenc lite board is working fine so far
[18:56:31] <alex_joni> mdynac: great to hear that
[18:57:18] <mdynac> i got the adc hooked up to a variable power supply
[18:58:01] <alex_joni> cool.. now you should link that to the adaptive feedrate
[18:58:10] <mdynac> and the feedrate varies accordingly
[18:58:11] <alex_joni> and run a straight G1, and see how speed adapts
[18:58:18] <alex_joni> right.. cool
[18:58:20] <mdynac> it works......
[18:58:52] <alex_joni> the only thing I can see here is if it adapts too fast
[18:59:22] <mdynac> the actual gap sense voltage changes very rapidly
[18:59:35] <alex_joni> ok, so speed will vary accordingly
[18:59:44] <mdynac> it's constantly changing
[18:59:51] <mdynac> i hope so....
[19:00:08] <alex_joni> you can always scope it (with halscope)
[19:00:23] <alex_joni> feedrate vs. adc value
[19:00:32] <alex_joni> and see how fast it changes
[19:00:40] <mdynac> i c kewl....
[19:01:10] <alex_joni> if it's too slow, you might want to move the adc ocnversion to a faster thread (although I really doubt that is necessary)
[19:01:44] <mdynac> my input voltage varies 0 to 15vdc and the adc only handles 0 to 5 so i must use some precision resistors to divide it
[19:02:12] <alex_joni> how about using an opamp ?
[19:02:33] <mdynac> sure say lm318
[19:04:10] <mdynac> i'm considering some form of opto isolation.....
[19:04:26] <alex_joni> I suspect an opamp behaves a bit better than resistors
[19:04:33] <alex_joni> and takes less input current
[19:04:49] <mdynac> true
[19:05:20] <alex_joni> for opto you need to digitize it
[19:06:08] <mdynac> true, well the opamp will work just fine....
[19:06:29] <alex_joni> and if something will blow, then it will be probably the opamp :D
[19:06:40] <mdynac> lm318 = excellent slew rate
[19:06:53] <alex_joni> use a DIP one, and put a socket for it
[19:07:04] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: set the opengl 'material color' and tweak the default cone appearance again
[19:07:04] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/minigl.c: set the opengl 'material color' and tweak the default cone appearance again
[19:07:04] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/options.py: set the opengl 'material color' and tweak the default cone appearance again
[19:07:07] <alex_joni> easier to replace later
[19:07:26] <mdynac> i socket everything i build.....
[19:07:34] <alex_joni> mdynac: wise move :D
[19:07:52] <alex_joni> I've been working with SMD's lately
[19:07:55] <mdynac> they're cheap
[19:07:57] <alex_joni> a PITA to change
[19:08:02] <mdynac> smd blows.....
[19:08:20] <alex_joni> yeah, but a 100 PQFP .. not really nice as a socket one
[19:08:22] <mdynac> crank up the hot air rework station.....
[19:08:31] <alex_joni> heh .. if you have one ;)
[19:08:36] <mdynac> i do
[19:08:53] <alex_joni> I don't ... need to go to a friend to use his if I need to
[19:09:24] <mdynac> i also have a pace vacuum desolder station....
[19:09:40] <alex_joni> mm.. nice
[19:09:51] <mdynac> i repair lots of thru hole ttl stuff
[19:09:55] <alex_joni> I guess I don't do enough electronics to justify it :)
[19:10:35] <alex_joni> I mostly change complete boards ..
[19:10:45] <mdynac> stop and swap!!!
[19:15:58] <jepler> oh nice: cia provides an rss feed of checkins and other messages http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/emc/.rss
[19:16:23] <CIA-12> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/help/xemc.txt: xemc help file
[19:16:42] <alex_joni> jepler: that's also true per user
[19:47:07] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/minigl.c: improve docstrings and error messages
[19:50:10] <etla> the rrs feed could be a news-blog thing on www.linuxcnc.org ?
[20:24:27] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:24:35] <robin_sz> les_w, dude!
[20:24:46] <alex_joni> robin hi
[20:24:55] <robin_sz> hi alex ...
[20:25:14] <robin_sz> hey, I was just playing at tig'ing some stainless
[20:25:31] <alex_joni> nice, should be fairly easy.. thin stuff?
[20:25:55] <robin_sz> we got our welding rep to drop in the stuff he thought we needed .. rods, gloves, tungstens, shrouds, pickiling fluid
[20:26:17] <alex_joni> pickling is the most important
[20:26:21] <alex_joni> what do you use?
[20:26:27] <robin_sz> that stuff is going straight back ...
[20:26:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tried avesta
[20:26:50] <robin_sz> Atolox? Anotox?
[20:26:59] <alex_joni> sounds like Botox :D
[20:27:01] <robin_sz> something like that
[20:27:14] <robin_sz> works fantastic ... clean in 10 seconds
[20:27:29] <robin_sz> and guess what it contains?
[20:28:00] <robin_sz> 25% Nitric acid
[20:28:05] <alex_joni> heh
[20:28:11] <robin_sz> and 10% hydrofluoric
[20:28:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs some Nittal
[20:28:29] <alex_joni> or whatever that stuff is called
[20:28:37] <robin_sz> no way am I having HF in the factory. no way.
[20:28:49] <alex_joni> that bad?
[20:28:54] <robin_sz> worse.
[20:28:59] <alex_joni> sounds like toothpaste to me
[20:29:00] <alex_joni> ROFL
[20:29:07] <robin_sz> most chemists think its worse than cyanide
[20:29:53] <alex_joni> that's Nital what I need, not Nittal
[20:30:08] <robin_sz> do people pickle before welding?
[20:30:39] <robin_sz> after weldin, obviously, but as a pre-cleaner?
[20:30:49] <alex_joni> not really
[20:30:57] <robin_sz> oh good
[20:31:06] <alex_joni> we sometimes use those 3-spray testings for cracks
[20:31:09] <alex_joni> you know them?
[20:31:21] <robin_sz> yeah, we use that a lot on tanks
[20:31:31] <alex_joni> cleaner(transparent), active(red), developer(white)
[20:31:34] <robin_sz> dye, clean, develop
[20:31:41] <alex_joni> it makes sense to use the cleaner before weld
[20:31:54] <alex_joni> 3-4 EUR a can, so it's affordable
[20:32:04] <robin_sz> heres a tip, dont use the spray active dye
[20:32:12] <alex_joni> the red one?
[20:32:18] <robin_sz> by the can, spray it into a jar, use a brush
[20:32:23] <robin_sz> last 5 times as long
[20:32:57] <robin_sz> it is very aggressive though ... leave it overnight, it finds its way out
[20:33:17] <alex_joni> out of the jar?
[20:33:24] <robin_sz> out through a weld
[20:33:29] <alex_joni> ahh.. right :)
[20:33:43] <alex_joni> if it's bogus at least
[20:33:57] <robin_sz> hey, I got a GREAT order this week
[20:33:59] <alex_joni> anyways.. we sell the stuff, so I don't worry about making it last longer
[20:34:04] <robin_sz> heh
[20:34:16] <alex_joni> at least not for customers :D
[20:34:20] <alex_joni> shorter if possible
[20:34:23] <alex_joni> (lol)
[20:34:40] <robin_sz> we bid on a contract ,... but someone else got it, even though we were cheaper
[20:34:58] <robin_sz> 6 weeks later, they fail to deliver
[20:35:01] <robin_sz> :)
[20:35:26] <robin_sz> so we got the next order, plus their order, and so long as its good, a contract :)
[20:37:07] <alex_joni> nice :D
[20:37:13] <robin_sz> yeah, very
[20:37:25] <robin_sz> over the year, its well into 6 figures
[20:37:53] <alex_joni> I see NItal is easy done
[20:37:59] <robin_sz> NItal?
[20:38:01] <alex_joni> Ethanol + Nitric Acid
[20:38:08] <alex_joni> the stuff to etch welds
[20:38:24] <alex_joni> Nitric Acid in 2%, 5% or 10%
[20:38:39] <alex_joni> http://www.uow.edu.au/eng/about/ohs/Safe%20Operating%20Procedures/nital.pdf
[20:38:49] <robin_sz> quite weak
[20:39:04] <alex_joni> yes, but enough to etch a few microns away
[20:39:11] <alex_joni> that way you can see penetration
[20:39:19] <robin_sz> this is after sectioning the weld, to show the penetration?
[20:39:25] <robin_sz> right
[20:39:29] <alex_joni> marthensite colours differently as the other structures
[20:39:32] <alex_joni> yeah.. that one
[20:39:48] <robin_sz> marstenite
[20:40:08] <robin_sz> austenitic and marstenitic steels
[20:41:26] <alex_joni> we call it marthensitic :D
[20:41:37] <robin_sz> martha and the muffins?
[20:41:41] <alex_joni> austenitic is the same
[20:42:09] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensite
[20:42:17] <alex_joni> seems wikipedia calls it Martensite
[20:42:23] <robin_sz> oops
[20:42:28] <robin_sz> i cant spol
[20:43:07] <alex_joni> some german bugger named Martens is the guilty party here
[20:43:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands robin_sz a e
[20:44:05] <robin_sz> what elese
[20:44:10] <Jymmm> lol
[20:44:30] <Jymmm> * Jymmm takes back the e he handed to robin_sz
[20:44:34] <robin_sz> spent the morning cutting hloes in 50x100 C section beams
[20:44:46] <robin_sz> and 100x100 angle iron
[20:45:05] <Jymmm> either of you weld al on a regaulr basis?
[20:45:11] <robin_sz> a bit
[20:45:22] <robin_sz> once or twice amonth maybe
[20:45:42] <Jymmm> any good at it or still learning?
[20:45:54] <robin_sz> well, I dont do it ... one of my staff does it
[20:46:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: same here
[20:46:22] <alex_joni> except my staff is robots :D
[20:46:27] <Jymmm> ah, I was just wondering how long it take one to become profiant at it
[20:46:28] <alex_joni> but alu is less common
[20:46:34] <robin_sz> its easy enough ... just keep everyting very very clean and use a stainless brush onthe parts monets before welding
[20:46:47] <robin_sz> oh, can you gas weld steel?
[20:46:50] <alex_joni> Jymmm: given proper instruction 2-3 days
[20:47:03] <alex_joni> gas = propane torch ?
[20:47:10] <robin_sz> oxy acetylene
[20:47:12] <alex_joni> or that
[20:47:25] <Jymmm> alex_joni Ha! I seriously doubt that from what I've ever been told; way too easy to make swiss cheese
[20:47:26] <alex_joni> oxy-fuel helps a LOT on tig
[20:47:32] <robin_sz> if you can do that, you can learn to tig in a morning
[20:47:40] <robin_sz> and do ally by the end of the afternoon
[20:47:50] <alex_joni> Jymmm: we are having training courses for welders
[20:47:59] <robin_sz> after a couple of days, the prats will come out not bent like bananas too
[20:48:04] <robin_sz> prats?
[20:48:05] <robin_sz> parts
[20:48:08] <alex_joni> if you get one who did some oxy-fuel, then TIG is great
[20:48:14] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:48:16] <Jymmm> alex_joni Cool, where to I pick up me airline ticket?
[20:48:18] <alex_joni> if you get those who weld stick .. not that easy
[20:48:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm: remember to pack some guns
[20:48:31] <robin_sz> actually, oxy fuel is better on ally
[20:48:31] <alex_joni> welding guns :D
[20:48:35] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx:
[20:48:35] <CIA-12> update description of mouse bindings. add information about using python
[20:48:35] <CIA-12> modules from other scripts. add section on [HAL]POSTGUI_HALFILE and the hal
[20:48:35] <CIA-12> pins axis creates. other typo and grammar fixes.
[20:48:40] <robin_sz> but you need to be GOOD!
[20:48:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni and where a tshirt that say BOMB too ?
[20:49:07] <Jymmm> then squad below that in tiny letters
[20:49:17] <alex_joni> Jymmm: "I'm a bomb technician..if you see me running, try to keep up.."
[20:49:38] <Jymmm> while wearing a parachut, right?
[20:49:42] <robin_sz> Jymmm, if you do fly out, can you let me know when and which flight ...?
[20:49:55] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/drivers.lyx: describe the "x" mode of parallel ports. describe probe_parport. remove mention of the userspace hal_parport since it is no longer built.
[20:50:17] <Jymmm> I never go anywhere, dont even have a passport.
[20:50:24] <robin_sz> coo.
[20:50:49] <Jymmm> Well, I dont count MX or CA that is
[20:50:54] <robin_sz> but your ward supervisor lets you use the internet?
[20:51:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is the head bottle washer
[20:51:34] <Jymmm> or do you mean my significant other?
[20:52:02] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you never said you had one?
[20:52:18] <Jymmm> I've meantioned my gf many times
[20:52:23] <Jymmm> mentioned
[20:52:39] <alex_joni> see... you're blubbering ashamed you forgot her so far
[20:52:39] <robin_sz> alex_joni, his name is "Brian", hes 220Kg, and tattooed.
[20:52:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs away whining
[20:52:57] <Jymmm> WHACK!
[20:53:21] <robin_sz> actually, im certain you havent mentioned her ...
[20:53:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has logs
[20:53:40] <alex_joni> logger_aj: bookmark
[20:53:40] <alex_joni> See
[20:54:59] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I stand corrected :D
[20:56:13] <alex_joni> /var/www/irc$ grep -r -e "<Jymm" * | grep -e " gf " | wc -l
[20:56:13] <alex_joni> 35
[20:56:49] <robin_sz> well, youd have to read them , he might have been mispelling "kettle" with a g and an f
[20:56:56] <robin_sz> or talkign about someone elses gf
[20:57:09] <robin_sz> or "i wish I had a gf"
[20:57:20] <Jymmm> ssh -X ip.address how do you say a different user?
[20:57:26] <alex_joni> -l user
[20:57:29] <Jymmm> ty
[20:57:38] <alex_joni> or user@ip.address
[20:57:46] <robin_sz> ssh -X brian@ip.address
[20:58:05] <alex_joni> you can also use: ssh -X user@addy -t command-to-execute
[20:58:35] <Jymmm> ah, cool
[20:58:53] <robin_sz> my favourite is scp between two remote machines
[20:58:54] <alex_joni> or you could try ' man ssh ' :D
[20:59:07] <alex_joni> robin_sz: certainly a bit of typing :D
[20:59:10] <Jymmm> I tried man ssh, guess I missed it.
[20:59:15] <robin_sz> you are on machine a, remotes are B and C
[20:59:42] <alex_joni> scp user_b@B:/path/to/file/on/B user_c@C:/path/on/C
[20:59:54] <robin_sz> exactly
[21:00:02] <robin_sz> and it never passes through A
[21:00:10] <alex_joni> I use user_c@:. a lot
[21:00:16] <alex_joni> I use user_c@C:. a lot
[21:00:38] <Jymmm> is the underscore significant?
[21:00:44] <robin_sz> its great for passing a file between two boxes out on a remote site without fetching it back down the dsl
[21:00:48] <robin_sz> no
[21:00:48] <Jymmm> oh nm
[21:00:52] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not in my example
[21:00:56] <robin_sz> the : is though
[21:01:25] <Jymmm> I read it wrong.... three machines (here) at once it bogging whats left of my brain
[21:01:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[21:01:37] <alex_joni> night all
[21:01:42] <Jymmm> Night alex
[21:01:43] <robin_sz> night
[21:03:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz that xopen thing you mentioned the other day, what was it again?
[21:05:07] <robin_sz> ummm
[21:05:29] <Jymmm> like xfwd w/o the encryption overhead
[21:05:49] <robin_sz> ah yes
[21:06:31] <robin_sz> xhost +<hostname>
[21:06:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night fols
[21:06:35] <Jymmm> You have to forgive me... I've install nix 5 times on one machien, and four time on a laptop
[21:06:45] <robin_sz> or just xhost + to allow all to connect
[21:06:46] <Jymmm> in the last 24 hours,
[21:06:55] <Jymmm> night Lerneaen_Hydra
[21:06:59] <robin_sz> night
[21:07:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra poofs
[21:08:21] <robin_sz> xey
[21:08:29] <robin_sz> xeyes is nice :)
[21:08:51] <Jymmm> and how to do start the application so it shows up on the remote?
[21:09:25] <robin_sz> set the variable DISPLAY in the enviroment on the emc machine to point to the box with the display
[21:09:56] <robin_sz> ip.address:0.0
[21:10:37] <robin_sz> $DISPLAY=
[21:10:39] <robin_sz> export
[21:10:47] <robin_sz> or ..
[21:11:02] <robin_sz> $ DISPLAY= emc_run
[21:11:29] <robin_sz> by the $ on htose last ones, .. I just mean 2at the command prompt"
[21:12:07] <robin_sz> $ means user command prompt, # means root command prompt in most unix-a-likes
[21:12:18] <Jymmm> so... export DISPLAY=laptop.ip /usr/bin/emc
[21:12:40] <robin_sz> laptop.ip:0.0
[21:13:10] <robin_sz> assuming thar on your laptop echo $DISPLAY returns :0.0 anyway
[21:13:12] <Jymmm> so... export DISPLAY=laptop.ip:0.0 /usr/bin/emc no need for the dollar sign anywhere?
[21:13:23] <robin_sz> nope
[21:13:25] <Jymmm> k
[21:13:31] <robin_sz> or even export
[21:13:46] <robin_sz> eith export the variable or just put it on the line before the command
[21:14:25] <robin_sz> i seem to remember, that with the way emc works, you need to export it, but I could be very wrong
[21:16:00] <Jymmm> syaing it couldnt connect to display. oh well
[21:16:01] <robin_sz> coo, well, that is weird ... I'd never seen a girl do THAT with a gearshift before!
[21:16:13] <robin_sz> mm, yeah, you have to fiddle about a bit sometimes
[21:16:28] <robin_sz> mostly it works first off though
[21:17:04] <Jymmm> what man page should I read up on?
[21:18:13] <robin_sz> mmmm
[21:22:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz stares at the screen.
[21:22:23] <robin_sz> you know, porkolt.com is just too damn weird some days
[21:22:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm places a magnet near the screen
[22:05:37] <les_w> hi robin
[22:05:41] <les_w> and jymmm
[22:11:01] <Jymmm> hi les
[22:12:15] <robin_sz> hi les
[22:28:49] <Jymmm> What does RPM have to do with finish in a fundamental way? I've always heard that faaster is nicer finish, but that dosn't tell me much.
[22:29:07] <SWPadnos> "correct" is better, not just faster
[22:29:32] <les_w> yeah ther is an optimum
[22:29:33] <Jymmm> ?
[22:29:40] <SWPadnos> not that I know anything - I haven't even finished my retrofit ;)
[22:30:01] <Jymmm> even at 30k rpm, I'm getting some scalloping on MDF
[22:30:04] <les_w> but in general at higher rpm inertial effects lessen splitting and such
[22:30:16] <Jymmm> err 35k rpm
[22:30:21] <Jymmm> bah 25,000
[22:30:28] <les_w> the scalloping is something else
[22:30:29] <SWPadnos> how many flutes on the cutter?
[22:30:34] <les_w> prob vibration
[22:30:41] <Jymmm> two flute spiral downcut
[22:30:50] <Jymmm> running at 40ipm
[22:31:10] <les_w> that's a low chip load
[22:31:10] <SWPadnos> you could have a runout problem, or vibration as les said
[22:31:12] <Jymmm> and only a 1/4" stepdown
[22:32:14] <les_w> It helps to take a variable speed hand router and just try different feeds and speeds on a scrap
[22:32:26] <les_w> just ball park
[22:32:46] <Jymmm> les_w I have... tried 8 different speeds, all about the same.
[22:32:51] <Jymmm> differnt cutters too
[22:33:41] <les_w> try a cleanup cut?
[22:33:53] <Jymmm> ?
[22:33:54] <les_w> light secondary finishing cut?
[22:34:12] <les_w> actually artcam does that automatically
[22:35:16] <Jymmm> les_w you remember a long time ago I showed you some pics and you saw it in there? that is still occuring
[22:37:36] <Jymmm> But my original question is more related to the basics in respect to spindle speed.
[22:40:38] <Jymmm> why run at 10k when you cna run at 20k - that sorta thing
[22:40:46] <Jymmm> or vice versa
[22:41:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Eh, I think you know one or two things at least =)
[22:41:43] <SWPadnos> you need to optimize the SFM - surface feet per minute that the cutting edges travel over the work
[22:41:45] <SWPadnos> ;)
[22:42:09] <SWPadnos> pi * cutter D * RPM = SFM
[22:42:23] <SWPadnos> then optimize the chipload = thickness of the chips being cut
[22:42:49] <les_w> too low chipload dulls edges fast
[22:42:50] <SWPadnos> feedrate = RPM * # of flutes * chip thickness
[22:42:58] <Jymmm> 19634.954084936207740391521145497
[22:43:22] <SWPadnos> so for a 0.005 chip thicknes, 2 flute cutter, at 25000 RPM, you need 250 IPM
[22:43:31] <les_w> could you be a little more precise?
[22:43:41] <SWPadnos> 19634.9540849362077403915211454972
[22:43:46] <Jymmm> les_w Sorry, I'll try better next time
[22:43:47] <SWPadnos> :)
[22:44:23] <SWPadnos> for MDF, you probably want a 0.010 chipload, possibly more (and it probably depends on the cutter diameter as well)
[22:44:43] <Jymmm> .250 two flute
[22:44:43] <les_w> best economy occurs at about 1000 ipm at 25k rpm with 2 flute and wood
[22:44:48] <les_w> and 25 hp
[22:45:03] <les_w> best finish is prob at about 200
[22:45:04] <Jymmm> les_w *.1
[22:45:11] <SWPadnos> heh - 25HP isn't in the cards for Jymmm, I think :)
[22:45:16] <Jymmm> 2.5hp
[22:45:32] <les_w> no 25 hp for me either
[22:45:35] <les_w> and
[22:45:54] <les_w> people with 25 hp routers are going out of business...
[22:46:25] <Jymmm> ?
[22:46:37] <Jymmm> why is that?
[22:46:57] <les_w> yeah. Seem only low ovewrhead little guys with smaller machines can make money.
[22:47:07] <les_w> china I guess.
[22:47:14] <Jymmm> ah
[22:47:33] <les_w> look at all the furniture plant closings
[22:47:48] <Jymmm> look at everything closing
[22:47:54] <les_w> yeah.
[22:47:59] <Jymmm> except starbucks
[22:48:19] <les_w> Well, I am sourcing things from china too.
[22:48:32] <les_w> But we do the value added stuff here.
[22:49:14] <Jymmm> Look at the white LEDs I got off of ebay from HK, I'm not going to pay $1/each here
[22:49:30] <Jymmm> or more
[22:49:36] <bill2or3> Mmmleds
[22:50:56] <les_w> bill likes leds?
[22:52:05] <bill2or3> lots.
[22:53:18] <les_w> I did a lot of application work with the early superbrights.
[22:55:44] <les_w> here's a fun thing....see how much power it takes to get a barely visible glow from a superbright in a dark room
[22:55:53] <bill2or3> with the leds themselves, or with drivers?
[22:55:59] <les_w> last number I remember was 25 microwatts.
[22:56:10] <les_w> just the leds
[22:56:20] <bill2or3> I want to do a LED headlight for my vespa, but I havent' figured out how to drive them.
[22:56:31] <bill2or3> since it's a 6v AC system.
[22:56:37] <les_w> just a current source
[22:56:48] <les_w> ac?
[22:56:50] <les_w> hmm
[22:57:42] <bill2or3> I dont really know enough about electricals to figure it out, yet.
[22:57:52] <les_w> bridge rectifier should put out about 9v dc....run em series parallel with a limiting resistor
[22:58:38] <les_w> if I know the current the vespa has available I can figure it out for you
[22:58:55] <robin_sz> doubt headlight would pass the DOT tests
[22:59:08] <les_w> heh right
[22:59:15] <bill2or3> les, the stock headlight is 35watts
[22:59:16] <les_w> It takes a lot
[22:59:33] <bill2or3> it's a 30 year old motor scooter, getting it past inspection shouldn't be a problem.
[22:59:39] <les_w> 35 watt incandescent?
[22:59:42] <bill2or3> I dont want to mass produce them, I just want one.
[22:59:47] <bill2or3> yes, incandescent.
[22:59:53] <bill2or3> flickery and dim. :-)
[23:00:15] <les_w> ok so you would need 10 watts of led or so
[23:00:26] <les_w> it would be pretty expensive
[23:00:46] <les_w> couple hundred bucks I guess
[23:01:10] <les_w> for the same brightness.
[23:01:34] <bill2or3> I have some 3W prolight led's
[23:01:47] <les_w> oh lucky you
[23:01:53] <bill2or3> I've got 8 right now, off ebay from some HK seller.
[23:01:56] <les_w> pay a lot for them?
[23:02:00] <bill2or3> they were like $7 each I think.
[23:02:12] <les_w> oh, great deal
[23:02:29] <bill2or3> I figure 5 of them will outshine the incandescent.
[23:02:35] <les_w> yeah
[23:03:09] <bill2or3> I'd put in 6, and switch 2 of them for the Hi/Low beam
[23:03:59] <les_w> DOT is quite specific about the radiation angles and such...but just for one moped...no problem.
[23:04:59] <les_w> so the vespa is 6v rms ? what frequency?
[23:05:13] <les_w> prob variable
[23:05:23] <bill2or3> I dont know.
[23:05:41] <bill2or3> I have a meter with a 'load' setting, that should tell me.
[23:06:00] <bill2or3> it idles at about 1000rpm, so a pretty low frequency.
[23:06:02] <les_w> well check the numbers
[23:06:21] <bill2or3> I think I'd want some smoothing, possibly with caps.
[23:06:31] <bill2or3> but again, I'm just guessing here.
[23:06:32] <les_w> and I can help you with the proper bridge, capacitor, and resistors.
[23:09:16] <danex> Hello les_w
[23:09:26] <les_w> hi danex
[23:09:43] <bill2or3> I'll get out the meter and make some notes.
[23:09:48] <les_w> ok
[23:10:05] <bill2or3> just amps/volts and duty cycle?
[23:10:09] <bill2or3> err, frequency?
[23:10:41] <les_w> yeah, and data sheets on the leds
[23:10:48] <bill2or3> gotcha.
[23:10:53] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 runs off home.
[23:10:58] <bill2or3> thanks, bye.
[23:11:06] <les_w> but sounds like you got a great deal and could make one for under $50
[23:11:17] <les_w> later
[23:11:29] <danex> les_w How are things in your area ?
[23:11:44] <les_w> things are good!
[23:12:24] <danex> I take it the project you were working on is going well
[23:12:40] <les_w> the "finger burner"?
[23:12:46] <les_w> yes very very good
[23:12:53] <danex> yes
[23:13:31] <les_w> I had some engineers fly down from up north to help me for a while
[23:13:44] <les_w> one mechanical and one electrical engineer
[23:13:44] <danex> My project is going slow but sure, I keep getting pulled off for other breakdowns
[23:13:54] <les_w> yeah?
[23:14:29] <danex> Did they help with your progress
[23:14:48] <danex> as you had hoped
[23:15:04] <les_w> Today was an overhead day for me. I installed a new larger air compressor.
[23:15:11] <les_w> yeas they helped a lot
[23:15:21] <danex> How many HP
[23:15:31] <les_w> they will return in about a week.
[23:16:15] <les_w> only 5....4 kW. but I bought an industrial 2 stage 175 psi unit
[23:16:30] <les_w> it will be plenty
[23:16:45] <les_w> about 6 feet high...
[23:17:14] <les_w> I don't want to get too much...because compressed air is very inefficient
[23:17:20] <danex> About a 120 gal tank?
[23:17:42] <les_w> usually ovarall efficiency in compressed air tools is about 10 percent
[23:17:48] <les_w> 60 gallon
[23:17:57] <les_w> it's tall and skinny
[23:18:06] <danex> So not much floor space
[23:18:14] <les_w> right
[23:18:24] <les_w> I'll get a link...
[23:19:25] <danex> The plant I work in has a total of 350 HP of screw compressors and it is not enough becouse of leaks in the lines
[23:21:39] <les_w> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/BEL-216V.html
[23:22:31] <les_w> this should be plenty for me
[23:23:55] <danex> Should give you plenty of extra if you need it
[23:24:33] <les_w> well, I have to do life testing on these air tool components
[23:24:45] <les_w> at 175 psi I should be fine
[23:25:14] <danex> does air moisture present a problem to the components?
[23:25:32] <les_w> I did have to bolt it to the floor...started walking on me
[23:25:56] <danex> I have had that as well
[23:26:07] <les_w> yes...I have a couple hundred dollars of filters on it
[23:26:19] <les_w> but need a refrigerated dryer
[23:26:48] <les_w> they are expensive.
[23:26:57] <les_w> looking on ebay.
[23:27:04] <danex> expensive but in the long run worth the cost
[23:28:08] <les_w> yeah
[23:28:50] <les_w> this thing was monted vertically on a skid...fun to get off the truck
[23:29:11] <les_w> I used my tractor front end loader with fork attachments
[23:29:21] <les_w> I don't have a loading dock
[23:29:26] <danex> I bet it was!!
[23:29:46] <les_w> front end loaders are faster than forklifts
[23:29:51] <les_w> had to watch it
[23:31:04] <danex> For your application you may want to check on a desiccant dryer
[23:31:18] <les_w> yes that would work too
[23:31:55] <les_w> right now I am using just an laman filter
[23:32:20] <les_w> http://www.laman.com/
[23:33:09] <les_w> but I need something better.
[23:36:08] <danex> I have seen these in paint shops
[23:36:47] <les_w> they work ok, but not as good as a refrigerated dryer
[23:37:38] <les_w> before that I have to rewire some electrics...I'm buying lots of tools. 5kw here..5 kw there...it adds up
[23:38:12] <danex> In a hurry it does,
[23:38:17] <les_w> I make 3 phase with a rotary convertor
[23:38:28] <les_w> I can start up to about 10 hp
[23:38:38] <les_w> it's getting to be not enough
[23:38:42] <danex> I have been to shops that can only run half of their equipment at a time
[23:39:25] <les_w> well, I have a 5 kw spindle on the cnc now, and it uses air too.
[23:39:40] <les_w> running both is getting a little too close
[23:40:45] <les_w> heck the shop lights are about 1 kw
[23:42:38] <les_w> I only have 40 amps @ 240 and I have to rewire real soon
[23:42:45] <les_w> up to 100 or 150
[23:43:19] <les_w> I just ran #8 to it
[23:43:24] <danex> The cost to go to 150 is not that much different
[23:43:29] <les_w> need to go to bigger wire
[23:43:34] <les_w> buried cable
[23:43:58] <les_w> I wish I had used bigger wire in the first place
[23:44:19] <les_w> new ditch to dig.
[23:44:28] <danex> it would be nice to
[23:44:48] <danex> have bigger alread there
[23:45:44] <les_w> Well, my dad put in the cable when I built it. I had to be in chicago. He just did not use big enough wire.
[23:47:26] <danex> At the time he probably just went with the size for that size building
[23:47:36] <les_w> He thought 40 ampsx240v=9.6 kva would be plenty
[23:47:42] <les_w> not anymore though
[23:50:42] <les_w> I have a 200 amp transformer for the shop now...power company put it in.
[23:50:55] <danex> What about three phase, how close is it to you
[23:51:18] <les_w> close, but 15,000 to install
[23:51:29] <les_w> I'll just keep making my own
[23:51:51] <danex> for that price I would too
[23:51:53] <les_w> the rotary converter works pretty well
[23:52:08] <les_w> I have it balanced to about 10 volts
[23:54:49] <danex> That is real good
[23:55:46] <danex> Most I se are about 25 to 30
[23:56:23] <danex> I need a new key board, keys are starting to miss
[23:57:06] <les_w> mine too
[23:58:04] <les_w> well, I guess I'll get some dinner and got to the music room as I always do. Listen to xm radio...good tunes...poor audio quality
[23:58:37] <danex> Good food and good music, a great combo
[23:58:42] <les_w> yeah
[23:58:49] <les_w> later danex
[23:58:55] <danex> Enjoy
[23:59:01] <JymmmEMC> g'night les
[23:59:15] <les_w> night