#emc | Logs for 2006-08-14

[07:13:11] <alex_joni> morning all
[07:17:34] <JymmmEMC> yo
[07:18:33] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: : I installed xubuntu, man that's more than just lightweight, it's missing a lot of things too. Went ahaead and reinstalled ubuntu
[07:22:57] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: it was worth a shot
[07:23:18] <alex_joni> what's missing ? (just for my piece of mind ;)
[07:29:27] <JymmmEMC> the ability to right-click a file, goto properties, and change perms. you ca only view them. No option to "run in terminal" either.
[07:29:49] <JymmmEMC> I DID like that I could right click on the desktop and have the menu there.
[07:31:02] <JymmmEMC> just little things.
[07:34:46] <alex_joni> those you usually can setup
[07:34:56] <alex_joni> for the various WM's
[07:35:44] <JymmmEMC> Maybe, just wsn't willing to I guess =)
[07:36:01] <JymmmEMC> I've installed nix on this box at least 5 times so far.
[07:36:41] <alex_joni> heh.. soon it'll get used to that ;)
[07:37:01] <alex_joni> hmm.. you do know that switching from xubuntu to ubuntu is just one command.. right?
[07:37:15] <JymmmEMC> nope
[07:37:26] <alex_joni> but it might leave some dependencies behind
[07:38:01] <JymmmEMC> I had to switch video cards; FINALLY got 1600x1200 goin
[07:39:21] <JymmmEMC> When I went to Dell, it said it had a ATI card, but was coming up Diamond. But I had a spare aTI card here and all is good now.
[07:41:06] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[07:41:10] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[07:41:13] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[07:41:16] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[07:41:24] <alex_joni> each gives you the special flavour ;)
[07:44:19] <JymmmEMC> eh, I got the iso's now.
[07:44:57] <alex_joni> probably 'cleaner' to do a fresh install
[07:45:03] <JymmmEMC> Hey you know how you said that you can use x forward'ing? I just learned that if the connect is broke, that the application dies.
[07:45:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni learns there's a thing called ubuntulite
[07:45:21] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: right
[07:45:31] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: because the interface runs on the remote PC..
[07:45:40] <JymmmEMC> That's pretty significant, you should of said that.
[07:46:04] <alex_joni> but it's better than the alternative, of having a "zombie" emc still running in the background, and no way of pushing the estop GUI button
[07:46:55] <JymmmEMC> That's why there's a REAL ESTOP button, not some pseudo thing.
[07:49:33] <JymmmEMC> We'll see how it goes when I install on the laptop tomorrow.
[07:51:45] <Jymmm> I'm tired and it's 0100
[07:51:52] <Jymmm> G'Night Alex
[08:05:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[08:06:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra pokes alex_joni
[08:07:18] <alex_joni> 'lo
[08:07:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> IRT that mail in the users list about encoders and index pulse, I think I'll be able to test soon, I haven't connected the encoder from the spindle on my lathe yet, but I plan to do it soon, and the work itself is very simple (just two optocouplers and finding where the sensor interfaces with the motor controller)
[08:07:29] <alex_joni> stop poking, I'm ticklish
[08:07:41] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: do you have a STG?
[08:08:01] <alex_joni> www.servotogo.com
[08:08:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> uh. what's an stg?
[08:08:20] <alex_joni> big ISA motion control card :)
[08:08:24] <alex_joni> kinda old too
[08:08:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh. right. nope... :( I only use parport
[08:10:35] <alex_joni> :D
[08:10:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and that mail was only applicable to STG stuff?
[08:11:18] <alex_joni> that's what I was saying in it.. :)
[08:11:28] <alex_joni> I need to change the STG HAL driver
[08:12:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[08:12:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh, I was just reading STG as some internal part of HAL
[08:14:51] <alex_joni> ok ;-)
[10:54:00] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: hello
[10:54:07] <alex_joni> how's your stepper driver coming?
[11:23:55] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: hi, well i'm still waiting for parts to arrive
[11:25:00] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: so the actual stepper driver design will start to evolve when i've built my avr programmer. i've at least finished my lab-powersupply
[11:25:56] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: an important step for me has been the realization that programmable devices will always outperform regular ttl-design when it comes to servos or stepper drivers
[11:43:27] <alex_joni> right, not sure if they are better then analog though
[11:52:42] <Bo^Dick> i can imagine that analouge servos aren't as accurate as digitally controlled
[11:53:02] <Bo^Dick> analouge servos can hardly be cnc-controlled either i believe
[11:55:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what do you mean by analoge?
[11:55:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> err, analog
[11:56:06] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: a bunch of op-amps and such
[11:56:56] <alex_joni> nowadays serial communications to the servo (CAN or MODbus or whatever starts to be a standard), but the previous standard was 0/10V for the speed setting (coming from the motion controller to the servo drive)
[11:57:19] <alex_joni> and most of them were/still are CNC controlled :)
[11:57:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I thought all servos were analog in that sense
[11:57:28] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: not all
[11:57:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> as long as you have a digital encoder all is well
[11:57:40] <alex_joni> but that wasn't what I meant.. I meant inside the driver
[11:57:52] <alex_joni> some use cuantitized values to work with (digital values)
[11:57:59] <alex_joni> others do it with analog voltages
[11:58:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the controller still does a DAC somewhere though
[11:58:08] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: not necessarely
[11:58:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> either real DAC or PWM
[11:58:22] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: the latest are pure digital, they do PWM before the final stage
[11:58:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, I would still call PWM analog
[11:59:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bbl
[11:59:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> mor elike brb
[12:00:04] <alex_joni> actually I was thinking more like the geckodrive internals when I started the subject
[12:00:28] <alex_joni> the geckodrive is somehow digital on the outside (step dir interface), but inside (the PID and all are analog)
[12:00:41] <alex_joni> the G340 DC controller at least
[12:17:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, you mean like that
[12:18:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> isn't it more difficult to tune a step/dir -> pid -> servo system?
[12:18:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> becuase then you not only have to tune the PID part, but also the step/dir accel
[12:26:34] <Bo^Dick> i was determined to create a superior stepper driver without programmable devices. after all the gecko has no microcontroller onboard and still performs well. at this point (after years of research) i know for sure a microcontroller stepper driver will always outperform a stepper driver without any microcontrollers.
[12:29:31] <Bo^Dick> this will probably hold for any device with a complexity level in the order of a stepper or servo driver
[12:33:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: what do you mean by "performance"?
[12:34:43] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: very much the overall performance such as torque speed etc.
[12:35:18] <Bo^Dick> efficiency and reliability
[12:35:43] <Bo^Dick> even noise levels for the motor
[12:36:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> why would microcontroller be better?
[12:36:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> throw enough IC's at it and you can have a hardware implementation of the same program
[12:36:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> except it would probably be faster
[12:36:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (extremely impractical though)
[12:37:48] <Bo^Dick> it has to do a lot with the adaptive current decay system. well of course you can for example compare two integers and save data in registers and stuff.
[12:38:22] <Bo^Dick> but when it comes to math operations and stuff i don't think ttl circuits can compare to an avr for example
[12:40:02] <Bo^Dick> in fact the smart current decay scheme i'm going to implement myself isn't featured by the geckodrive as far as i know
[12:40:41] <Bo^Dick> i don't even know about any commersial stepper driver implemented with that nicety
[12:41:07] <Bo^Dick> my stepper drivers are gonna kick ass
[12:46:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ooh, nice. I wasn't thinking TTL as much as fast analog CMOS
[12:50:41] <Bo^Dick> well the ATmega8515 has 16 mips
[12:51:30] <Bo^Dick> that makes it prettu useful for realtime applications
[12:51:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not bad
[12:51:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> price?
[12:53:12] <Bo^Dick> well i had to give almost 10$ for it but my dealer is rather expensive
[12:53:28] <alex_joni> hope you got more than one ;)
[12:54:03] <Bo^Dick> in fact it's cheaper than the corresponding pic that has only 10 mips but costs 15$ and has somewhat fewer I/O pins
[12:54:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni used the Mega128 mainly
[12:54:31] <alex_joni> and the Mega16 .. got some really cheap :D
[12:54:35] <alex_joni> 1-2$
[12:55:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: elfa?
[12:55:42] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: yepp
[12:55:56] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: they're very nice although only 8 mips
[12:56:58] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: forgot to say that they are very cheap as well
[12:57:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes they're expensive ;)
[12:57:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how much did they cost at the next level, 5-10 units?
[12:57:49] <Bo^Dick> alex_joni: as long as a converter from TQFP to DIL as available
[13:00:38] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: 7$ instead of 10$
[13:03:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> still pricey
[13:03:13] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: yepp
[13:03:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: are you going to OSS your board?
[13:03:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and sell premade ones
[13:03:48] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: don't know. i'm gonna breadboard it first of course
[13:04:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[13:04:38] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: maybe solder pad board with copper wires or something
[13:05:35] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: it needs to be vigiously tested before any marketing could be of think
[13:06:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> naturally
[13:06:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> OSS could help with that ;);)
[13:59:21] <jepler> I'm thinking of adding a "gcode properties" screen to AXIS. It would look something like this: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop.html
[13:59:45] <jepler> does anybody have suggestions about what would or would not be useful to show in such a screen?
[14:04:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hey that sounds nice
[14:05:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> a more accurate runtime display?
[14:05:40] <jepler> well I'm not sure how accurate the runtime display will be in practice
[14:06:04] <jepler> it depends on accel, on the blend mode and on the details of the trajectory planner
[14:06:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, something I just thought of right now. if you have softlimits then maybe there should be a wireframe cube/square showing where the limits are in relation to the current coordinate system
[14:06:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> other than toolchange shouldn't the runtime be very exact?
[14:07:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and for toolchange there could be a toolchange_typ_time: parameter somewhere
[14:08:04] <jepler> consider the program that goes from (0,0,0) to (.1,0,0) and back in exact stop mode until the total distance is 1000mm (10000 moves). that'll take much longer to run than a program that makes a 100mm circle until the total distance is the same
[14:08:49] <jepler> in the former case, the run time is almost entirely determined by the machine's acceleration. in the latter case, it's determined almost entirely by the programmed feed rate, assuming a reasonable machine acceleration
[14:08:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> err, so the current time measurement doesn't take that into account?
[14:09:01] <jepler> no, not at all
[14:09:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[14:09:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so it's only distance/feed?
[14:09:14] <jepler> right
[14:09:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, ok
[14:09:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I guess that's sufficient for most things though
[14:10:27] <jepler> I'm not sure how much time acceleration would add to a typical, sane milling task
[14:11:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> probably nearly nothing
[14:11:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> when you mill stuff you never really hear the motors accel decel
[14:11:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> becuase it's so fast
[14:11:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it's probably only a few percent
[14:12:11] <jepler> cradek's mill has MAX_ACCELERATION = 30 (inch/second^2) on X and Y, so if I could remember a tiny bit of math I could figure out how long it takes to accelerate to some F-number
[14:13:16] <jepler> 1/120 seconds to accelerate to F15?
[14:16:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> physics 101 lerneaen_hydra.. think, this shouldn't be hard
[14:17:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no matter what I do I get 0.5S
[14:18:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> becuase this is velocity and not distance, it is linear
[14:18:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so to get 30 ipm should take 1 S?
[14:18:49] <SWPadnos> v=at, t=v/a
[14:19:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> V=V_0+A*T
[14:19:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> IIRC
[14:19:11] <SWPadnos> yeah yeah - plus a constant ;)
[14:19:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> :p
[14:19:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if it were distance then it would be exponential
[14:19:54] <SWPadnos> that was always tyhe problem getting my mother to telp with erngineering equations - she was interested in the mathematical answer (a formula), and we wanted numbers
[14:20:02] <SWPadnos> man - I need more coffee
[14:20:24] <SWPadnos> there were constants left out all over the place, because they weren't "mathematically significant"
[14:20:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: still there?
[14:21:04] <A-L-P-H-A> Anyone know of a GPL / LPGL application that is able to digitally sign PDF documents? [from the command line / php extension]
[14:21:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> digitally sign? gpg?
[14:22:57] <A-L-P-H-A> Lerneaen_Hydra, something like that... but it can't sign the PDF from with it.
[14:23:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't really know..
[14:23:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe there is a gpg pdf thingy
[14:26:04] <alex_joni> you can put it in an email, and sign the whole thing
[14:29:08] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, that's one way. hmm.
[14:29:21] <A-L-P-H-A> not exactly liking that.
[14:29:27] <A-L-P-H-A> was trying to automated it from the server
[14:32:15] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: I'm back now
[14:34:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm giving up on my search for a PDF digital signature tagger.
[16:39:46] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
[16:39:46] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/lib/python/propertywindow.py: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
[16:39:46] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: new 'properties' window shows various information about the loaded g-code file
[17:40:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: is the properties window the same as the sample?
[17:41:30] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[17:41:31] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[18:00:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I was thinking IRT RTnet over ethernet
[18:00:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any reason to stick to TCP/IP?
[18:01:06] <JymmmEMC> opposed to what?
[18:01:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> rather than having some from-scratch system? sure you'd loose compatibility but then you don't need to worry about latency nearly as much
[18:01:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you'd probably want one tcp/ip card and one RTnet card then
[18:25:27] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: no, it doesn't show quite the same stuff. axis isn't gathering some of the needed information yet.
[18:25:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:30:44] <jepler> Here's what the window looks like now: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop.png
[18:31:39] <etla> can you get a time estimate also
[18:32:14] <jepler> etla: That's someting I hope to add
[18:32:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: in XYZ bounds maybe there's a better char than "..", like "-" or the longer version of hyphen, or some special ascii symbol
[18:32:56] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: good point
[18:33:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ↔ maybe
[18:33:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if you can see that symbol
[18:33:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how's unicode support in EMC+AXIS btw?
[18:34:21] <jepler> it depends on tk's support
[18:34:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[18:34:40] <jepler> one thing you can't find out is whether any particular unicode character is present in a particular font
[18:34:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, that's something that is very irritating
[18:35:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so tk doesn't use some standard unicode font with all chars?
[18:35:20] <jepler> so <-> would be a great char if the font supports it, but others will see something stupid like \U2194 instead
[18:35:29] <jepler> no, Tk just uses whatever fonts the operating system has available
[18:35:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah
[18:35:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I see
[18:35:38] <jepler> in practice, it will work fine on a modern system like ubuntu
[18:35:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I wonder what would be best
[18:36:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> probably just a hyphen, though it's possible that it may be mistaken for a minus symbol
[18:36:27] <jepler> yeah, it was actually minus that I was worried about
[18:37:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how does <-> look?
[18:37:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> too crappy?
[18:39:41] <jepler> ugh it looks bad in this font
[18:40:05] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop2.png
[18:40:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yeah, no nice
[18:40:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what about " to "
[18:42:30] <jepler> yeah http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/prop3.png
[19:13:41] <JymmmEMC> The lights are on, but nobody's home
[19:31:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that " to " looks best so far IMO
[19:31:49] <jepler> I agree
[19:33:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> one thing that maybe should be done, the bounds numbers are not, uh, lined up
[19:33:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not that it really matters though
[19:33:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the - preceeding some of the lines offsets them one char
[19:34:35] <jepler> yeah .. they also wouldn't be lined up if one was "13" and th other was "9"
[19:34:44] <jepler> also, it's not in a fixed-width font anyway
[19:35:14] <SWPadnos> most fonts have essentially fixed-width numerals though
[19:43:13] <robin_sz> meep!
[19:43:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is feeling very happy
[19:46:58] <jepler> robin_sz: why's that?
[19:55:33] <robin_sz> got a good order today :)
[19:57:52] <jepler> ah
[19:57:54] <JymmmEMC> Do you guys ever use PAUSE ?
[19:57:55] <jepler> congrats
[19:58:10] <jepler> JymmmEMC: not often
[19:58:26] <JymmmEMC> jepler: does is screwup anything?
[19:58:31] <robin_sz> Jymmm, the Perl Authors Upload SystEm?
[19:58:51] <jepler> JymmmEMC: I don't think so, and if it does it will get fixed after it's reported
[19:58:51] <JymmmEMC> robin_sz: The PAUSE button in mini
[19:59:03] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC lol @ jepler - fair enough
[20:00:35] <JymmmEMC> Well, so far so good. Haven't hooked it up to the HW yet, but looks like real mode emc isn't choking on this machine.
[20:00:51] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: one button support: ctrl+leftbutton+motion zooms in/out
[20:01:07] <JymmmEMC> and will have more ram for it in the next couple of weeks too!
[20:02:22] <CIA-12> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: document ctrl+leftbutton
[20:03:09] <JymmmEMC> Just curious, is 3D_Chips.ngc in mm or inches?
[20:03:19] <robin_sz> yes
[20:03:55] <robin_sz> it will work in either depending on how big you want it
[20:04:14] <robin_sz> check the G21 line to discover what your copy is set for
[20:05:34] <jepler> N30 G21
[20:05:44] <jepler> the copy shipped with emc2 is mm
[20:05:50] <jepler> but you can mill it just fine on an inch machine
[20:06:10] <JymmmEMC> Either way... I've seen X at 40 and Z at 30. Seems extremely hug or tiny depending
[20:06:20] <JymmmEMC> huge
[20:06:21] <jepler> N15 ( The part is cut from a 100x100x50mm block with the zero point at the )
[20:06:21] <jepler> N20 ( center top of the block. Cutter is a 10mm ball nose. )
[20:07:08] <JymmmEMC> ah, ok. guess I just missed that.
[20:07:18] <jepler> a lot of hobbyist mills (sherline, etc) may not even have 100mm of table in "Y"
[20:07:53] <JymmmEMC> should emc display "lag" when I drag another window around?
[20:08:36] <jepler> it might slow down, yeah
[20:09:00] <JymmmEMC> it completely paused that time =)
[20:09:17] <jepler> did you do that (move windows around) while running the latency test?
[20:09:44] <JymmmEMC> the RTAI test, I'm not sure. I know I started a large download.
[20:10:29] <JymmmEMC> let me try it now...
[20:10:33] <jepler> if you're concerned about the performance when moving windows around, then do it while running the latency test
[20:10:52] <jepler> if that's just fine, then don't worry about it -- the display can get a little bit laggy but as long as the realtime stuff is solid it doesn't matter
[20:11:14] <JymmmEMC> After trying 4 different machines, I just want to make sure all is well on this one =)
[20:11:20] <jepler> I understand how you feel
[20:11:24] <JymmmEMC> making it #5
[20:11:36] <jepler> bbl
[20:11:42] <JymmmEMC> k
[20:16:10] <robin_sz> so ... last week was terrible, order book running low ... today its busy as busy and I landed a nice fat contract worth 6 figures for the year, plus 2 more looking really good too
[20:16:58] <robin_sz> funny how it turns around so fast
[20:53:42] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Weird... I ran RTAI Latency test per http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting, bitchd about directory already existed. Then ran gimp, glxgears and whatever else I could think of and lat_max never went over 20000
[20:54:34] <JymmmEMC> ocl_max is 17148
[20:54:53] <JymmmEMC> ovl_max I mean
[21:00:37] <Jymmm> robin_sz: You're sadistic enough... Know of any material like phenolic but wihtout the toxicity aspects?
[21:00:52] <Jymmm> that can handle heat
[21:00:53] <robin_sz> hmmm
[21:00:58] <robin_sz> hmmmmmmm
[21:01:03] <robin_sz> well ....
[21:01:22] <robin_sz> how hot?
[21:01:56] <Jymmm> 800F momentarily.... I want to create templates for a hot wire cutter.
[21:02:06] <robin_sz> whats that in C?
[21:02:26] <Jymmm> !426
[21:02:31] <Jymmm> ~426c
[21:02:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> phenolic, how does that behave?
[21:02:38] <robin_sz> tufnol?
[21:02:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> doesn't say anything. I haven't done that much with plastics
[21:02:55] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra contians formaldehyde
[21:02:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> eek
[21:03:05] <robin_sz> oh, not tufnol then
[21:03:09] <robin_sz> that does too
[21:03:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what about cutting behavior?
[21:03:29] <robin_sz> tufnol cuts NICE
[21:03:32] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra machiens nicely, just the duust is toxic
[21:03:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if it's going to be warm then uh, that weave-resin composite would be good
[21:03:58] <robin_sz> grp pcboard material maybe?
[21:04:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> old material, 1930's
[21:04:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> brownish
[21:04:09] <robin_sz> Lerneaen_Hydra, thats tufnol
[21:04:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> many layers
[21:04:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh?
[21:04:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[21:04:19] <Jymmm> aka bakelite
[21:04:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> vävbakelit here
[21:04:22] <robin_sz> formaldehyde based
[21:04:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> aha! ok
[21:04:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is it?
[21:04:30] <Jymmm> yep
[21:04:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh. ok
[21:04:37] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite
[21:04:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm glad I haven't machined in it too much! XD
[21:04:59] <Jymmm> whats the stuff they use oin toasters?
[21:05:02] <robin_sz> whats wrong with grp board as used in PCB making??????
[21:05:10] <robin_sz> mica, too fragile
[21:05:23] <Jymmm> robin_sz fiberglass base, isn't it?
[21:05:30] <robin_sz> and?
[21:05:51] <Jymmm> it's the fibers that are a problem.... lil kids would be using them.
[21:06:11] <robin_sz> wood?
[21:06:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how thick is it going to be?
[21:06:21] <Jymmm> chars too easily
[21:06:21] <robin_sz> 3mm
[21:06:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you could use kapton
[21:06:26] <Jymmm> 1/32 is fine by me
[21:06:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if price doesn't matter
[21:06:55] <robin_sz> so, what exactly are you trying to do, it sounds rather high tech ...
[21:07:26] <Jymmm> make butterfly templates to be placed on top of EPS when being hot wire cut
[21:07:34] <Jymmm> butterfly, kittens, etc
[21:07:40] <robin_sz> just use plywood, 2mm
[21:07:44] <robin_sz> works fine
[21:08:28] <robin_sz> thats how almost ALL foam model plane wings are made ... thin plywood templates and a block of foam
[21:08:29] <Jymmm> if they pasue it'll it'll char cut thru that. I know that from exp =)
[21:08:52] <Jymmm> we're talking kids here
[21:09:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cut through plywood?
[21:09:30] <robin_sz> well, thats the least of your worries
[21:09:32] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra 800 F
[21:09:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm
[21:09:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe
[21:09:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I used 1mm alu and it worked very well
[21:10:04] <robin_sz> this is in school, right?
[21:10:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> doesn't get too warm because the contact area is so small
[21:10:23] <Jymmm> more Boy/Girl Scouts
[21:10:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if you're afraid of bending then se thicker
[21:10:42] <robin_sz> and how do you extract the toxic fumes ?
[21:10:56] <Jymmm> EPS doesn't outgas toxic fumes.
[21:11:05] <Jymmm> unless they try to cut floral foam.
[21:11:27] <robin_sz> EPS? I thought this was styrofoam, no?
[21:11:45] <Jymmm> correct... Expanded Poly Styrene
[21:11:56] <robin_sz> very very toxic fumes when heated
[21:12:20] <Jymmm> check out the MSDS, it's not - surprisingly
[21:12:45] <Jymmm> when burned is another matter.
[21:12:56] <robin_sz> http://www.terragenesis.co.uk/infopages/page173.html
[21:13:58] <Jymmm> Nice article.
[21:14:11] <Jymmm> I love the "5 cutter limit" =)
[21:14:36] <robin_sz> its well known as a trigger for asthma too
[21:15:03] <Jymmm> EPS is an irritant, but I'm not sure on the toxicity part. at least fro the MSDS's I've read.
[21:15:20] <Jymmm> reduces O2, yeah I could see that.
[21:18:05] <robin_sz> ... and the hydrogen cyanide it releases is harmless
[21:18:44] <Jymmm> Everything plastic release HCL.... for 20+ years =)
[21:19:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'night people
[21:19:51] <Jymmm> I just wanted something a bit more durable than wood, and non toxic pheonlic
[21:20:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> aluminum works well
[21:20:10] <robin_sz> indeed
[21:20:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> at least in my experience
[21:20:16] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra I dont have cooling on my machine
[21:20:20] <robin_sz> would the kids actually be making the templates?
[21:20:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> for alu you can use a flower spray thingy and alcohol
[21:20:46] <Jymmm> robin_sz No, I would. But I dont want to die either
[21:21:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyway, gnight
[21:21:33] <Jymmm> flower spray thingy ?
[21:21:44] <robin_sz> water mister trigger bottle thing
[21:21:45] <Jymmm> oh, I know what he was saying now
[21:22:06] <Jymmm> the tabltop I have is out of MDF, so no, I can't =)
[21:22:30] <robin_sz> mdf is not OK with alcohol?
[21:22:55] <Jymmm> MDF is the worlds best sponge
[21:23:10] <Jymmm> you ca't evne paint it where it's been cut/machined
[21:23:17] <robin_sz> and it swells up with alcohol?
[21:23:55] <Jymmm> I can't even put on 6 coats of paint withit being absorbed.
[21:24:27] <robin_sz> I know .. btu ive used LOTS of isopropyl on MDF basebaord with no ill effect to the base
[21:24:33] <robin_sz> it just evaporates afterwards
[21:24:41] <robin_sz> hey, I know ...
[21:24:57] <robin_sz> just have someone laser cut them out of 1mm steel :)
[21:25:06] <Jymmm> MDF is like metal that's been surface hardened. But if you hit an edge where it's been machined, it's a sponge.
[21:25:44] <Jymmm> That's why to can paint the surface of MDf, but not it's edges
[21:25:58] <Jymmm> s/to/you/
[21:26:16] <Jymmm> EXCEPT for black paint.
[21:26:33] <Jymmm> and not even the lab at the mfg could explain that one
[21:26:43] <Jymmm> weird, huh?
[21:26:46] <robin_sz> so, how exactly doe not being able to paint the edges of your table mean you cant spray your cutter with a bit of isopropyl alcohol?
[21:27:04] <Jymmm> table is a grid of 400 holes
[21:27:19] <robin_sz> thats nice ... and?
[21:27:32] <Jymmm> will leak into the holes
[21:27:40] <robin_sz> yes ... and?
[21:27:47] <Jymmm> deform the mdf
[21:28:01] <robin_sz> must be different to the MDF we have here
[21:28:32] <robin_sz> so .. thats aluminium, phenol and GRP out ...
[21:28:35] <robin_sz> whats left?
[21:28:42] <robin_sz> oh and wood
[21:28:44] <Jymmm> Besides the fact that I dont want to machien metal - I'm in a apt.
[21:29:06] <Jymmm> I need coolant for soapstone too
[21:29:34] <robin_sz> and you intend to give these away or sell them?
[21:30:09] <Jymmm> both
[21:30:32] <robin_sz> I wold have thought wood was ideal to sell ... they wreck them eventually, you get to sell another
[21:30:48] <robin_sz> last thing you want is soemting that lasts forever :)
[21:31:00] <robin_sz> ask any light-bulb maker :)
[21:31:24] <Jymmm> if it was a bit denser than pine plywood sure. but I dont want it one-time use (like toilet paper)
[21:31:48] <Jymmm> 1/8 wood anything is hard to come by cheaply
[21:31:50] <robin_sz> what about that hard dense yellow stuff they use in model planes?
[21:31:58] <Jymmm> balsa?
[21:32:02] <robin_sz> nah, the play
[21:32:04] <robin_sz> ply
[21:32:11] <robin_sz> its about 1/16th inch
[21:32:15] <robin_sz> and 4 layers
[21:32:17] <Jymmm> oh the fancy 5ply stuff
[21:32:33] <robin_sz> thats what Ive used before
[21:32:38] <Jymmm> that might work. I wonder what the resin is
[21:33:00] <robin_sz> no idea .. whatever it is its way less toxic than burning styrene
[21:33:14] <robin_sz> probably PVA
[21:33:17] <Jymmm> heh, yeah. Still need to read the MSDS though
[21:34:11] <robin_sz> thought about using "blue" foam?
[21:34:12] <Jymmm> do you have a link to the yellow stuff you're talking about? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
[21:34:34] <robin_sz> expanded polyethylene, much safer
[21:34:42] <Jymmm> Never played with it.
[21:34:54] <robin_sz> much nicer, used in building above ground
[21:35:09] <robin_sz> not allowed to use polystyrene above ground here anymore
[21:35:22] <Jymmm> even cfc free eps?
[21:35:30] <robin_sz> because of the fume risk in a fire
[21:35:34] <Jymmm> ah
[21:35:51] <robin_sz> they used to use it in furniture would you beleive!
[21:35:54] <robin_sz> nto any more
[21:36:10] <Jymmm> what kind of furniture?
[21:36:14] <Jymmm> couches?
[21:36:29] <robin_sz> you are still allowed to keep it, but if you want to rent out a room, the city inspecotrs check for polystyrene and other stuff in furninture
[21:36:34] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:36:44] <robin_sz> couches or sofas as we call them
[21:36:47] <robin_sz> chairs etc
[21:37:12] <Jymmm> wow, never heard of eps being used that way, well expect for bean bag chairs.
[21:37:30] <Jymmm> brb... smoke
[21:37:36] <robin_sz> hah!
[21:37:44] <robin_sz> caution .. toxic fumes :)
[21:41:38] <Jymmm> lol
[21:41:50] <Jymmm> and formaldehide + 1000 others too
[21:41:56] <Jymmm> =)
[21:42:28] <Jymmm> robin_sz you got a link for that yellow stuff? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
[21:44:09] <robin_sz> mmmm ....
[21:44:58] <robin_sz> http://www.rediboom.com/englisch/material/holz.html
[21:45:19] <A-L-P-H-A> omg.
[21:45:33] <robin_sz> if only there was some system of interconnectoed computers containg all this information, indexed by some sort of advanced search engine ...
[21:45:37] <A-L-P-H-A> someone called me a racist from GNU, beause I disagreed with their argument.
[21:45:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/131756 pretty long... it was a debate with an GNU zealot.
[21:45:53] <A-L-P-H-A> so. guys.
[21:45:59] <robin_sz> ugh. how I am them GNU zealots hating
[21:46:09] <A-L-P-H-A> Remember, I'm a racist, cause I believe that there is a place for non-free software. :)
[21:46:25] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz? huh?
[21:47:10] <robin_sz> thats pretty much it .. if you say "oh I use Linux and Windows" then you are some sort of pervert or something in a GNUZ eyes
[21:47:34] <A-L-P-H-A> yup.
[21:47:46] <A-L-P-H-A> GOD. wow. The guy tried to bite my head off.
[21:47:53] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: Sometimes, I think you LOOK for stuff to argue about =)
[21:48:07] <A-L-P-H-A> kept on comparing SLAVERY to free software.
[21:48:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I was like, WTF?
[21:49:17] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:49:37] <robin_sz> the GNU lot, RMS et all are not quite right in the head, best left alone
[21:50:17] <A-L-P-H-A> GNU fanboys, make that * Fanboys, are fucked in the head.
[21:50:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, but you're right... I do pick arguements.
[21:50:36] <robin_sz> theres lots of great FREE software, theres some pretty awesome proprietary stuff too. I use both, it works for me. the rest is their problem, not mine
[21:50:43] <A-L-P-H-A> but I was hoping that guy was joking around on his stance.
[21:50:46] <A-L-P-H-A> he wasn't!!!!
[21:50:52] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A, no dont pick arguments
[21:50:59] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A, no you dont pick arguments
[21:51:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't pick this one.
[21:51:22] <robin_sz> did!
[21:51:31] <A-L-P-H-A> not really... I just continued it
[21:51:42] <robin_sz> did, did, did, did!
[21:51:46] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[21:51:53] <robin_sz> :)
[21:52:07] <A-L-P-H-A> that guy kept saying there is no choice. blah blah.
[21:52:11] <A-L-P-H-A> weak argument.
[21:52:28] <robin_sz> best ignored. life is WAY to short
[21:52:54] <robin_sz> try joining #debian and asking an ubuntu question, that rocks too
[21:52:58] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. I'm gonna hold a gun to your head, and make you install windows, and photoshop.
[21:53:07] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. if you don't... I'm gonna blow your head off.
[21:53:09] <A-L-P-H-A> hehehe.
[21:53:27] <robin_sz> photoshop .. ick
[21:54:05] <robin_sz> better than gimp though
[21:54:16] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, no "real alternatives
[21:54:16] <robin_sz> gimp does have all the features
[21:54:23] <robin_sz> but the UI is way bad
[21:54:28] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, no "real alternatives" to photoshop... it's just the king.
[21:54:31] <A-L-P-H-A> there's gimpshop.
[21:54:33] <A-L-P-H-A> seen that?
[21:54:36] <robin_sz> nope
[21:54:43] <A-L-P-H-A> made to look/work like photoshop, with gimp backend
[21:54:54] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to remember the adobe thing they use down in the graphics bit
[21:55:08] <robin_sz> Adobe .... <think>
[21:55:49] <robin_sz> InDesign
[21:56:36] <robin_sz> oh yes, on MAC.
[21:56:37] <robin_sz> ick
[21:56:52] <robin_sz> "one button mice, for one braincell users"
[21:58:07] <Jymmm> Cool, vacuum bagging supplies near me =)
[21:58:28] <robin_sz> so .. some years ago around here ..
[21:58:34] <robin_sz> a tiger escaped from a zoo
[21:58:43] <robin_sz> so, they called the police marksman unit
[21:58:51] <robin_sz> and then a vet with a dart gun
[21:58:59] <robin_sz> what happened next?
[21:59:07] <Jymmm> Kitty Soup?
[21:59:13] <robin_sz> mmm .. nope.
[21:59:24] <robin_sz> keep guessing.
[21:59:35] <Jymmm> the vet shot the marksman
[21:59:45] <robin_sz> closer ...
[22:00:01] <Jymmm> the tiger shot the marksman
[22:00:09] <robin_sz> mmmm ...
[22:00:19] <robin_sz> the marksman shot the vet. dead.
[22:00:35] <Jymmm> why?
[22:00:54] <robin_sz> well .. you know, its like, right, well, yeah.
[22:01:10] <robin_sz> easy mistake to make I guess
[22:01:52] <robin_sz> one is a big ornage and black striped cat, 10 feet long, the other is a two legged human, 6 feet tall. hard to tell them apart really.
[22:01:54] <Jymmm> marksman: "No, *I* want to shoot the tiger BLAM BLAM BLAM"
[22:02:24] <Jymmm> Yeah, 200 lbs -vs- 800 lbs.... they all look alike.
[22:02:46] <Jymmm> Please tell me they at least bitchslapped him
[22:02:47] <robin_sz> so, around here, if you are a hostage and the police turn up, just ask them to toss some guns in and you'lll take your chances, the LAST thing you want is them trying to rescue you!
[22:03:16] <robin_sz> seriously, thats is true story.
[22:03:35] <Jymmm> I believe it. thats why I asked if they bitchslapped him or not.
[22:03:38] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. for real?
[22:03:54] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. did the 'marksman' get repermanded?
[22:04:06] <Jymmm> better be in jail
[22:04:09] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. fuck'n sticker on your chest, doesn't make you a real marksman...
[22:04:15] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, that probably wouldn't happen.
[22:04:25] <robin_sz> shrug .. no idea
[22:07:56] <JymmmEMC> robin_sz: : Hey I know... I'll mak ethe templates out of thin magnesium sheets =)
[22:08:33] <JymmmEMC> That'll teach em not you pause in the middle of a cut!
[22:08:39] <JymmmEMC> s/you/to/
[22:16:08] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, this is gonna be tough. Can't locate any place locally that has the aircraft ply in full sheets.
[22:16:37] <danex> Jymmm. What was the "marksman" story, I loged on at your "bitchslap" comment?
[22:17:06] <JymmmEMC> logger_aj: bookmark
[22:17:06] <JymmmEMC> See
[22:17:13] <JymmmEMC> danex: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:19:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz makes a job list for tomorow
[22:20:14] <robin_sz> gotta get the chiller for the spot welder re-gassed
[22:20:24] <danex> Bad day to be the vet!!!
[22:20:31] <robin_sz> yip
[22:20:56] <robin_sz> over here, the police are nto exactly proficient ...
[22:21:11] <danex> Where is over here?
[22:21:21] <robin_sz> they are OK at chasing people and writing reports, but guns are not safe with them.
[22:21:22] <robin_sz> UK
[22:21:29] <danex> Sounds like what would happen in my area
[22:22:33] <robin_sz> scary.
[22:22:42] <robin_sz> moving on ...
[22:23:00] <robin_sz> getting some of the code together for this tube laser
[22:23:20] <robin_sz> the motion control language is "interesting" to say the least
[22:23:34] <JymmmEMC> HPGL ?
[22:23:34] <robin_sz> gcode aitn going to do it
[22:24:15] <robin_sz> nah, I'm writng a spec for a descriptive language, that will probably get parsed into Gcode
[22:24:47] <JymmmEMC> All the laser engravers here use HPGL.... aka plotter
[22:24:55] <robin_sz> right ..
[22:24:59] <robin_sz> but they are 2.5d
[22:25:05] <robin_sz> 2 and a bit axes
[22:25:19] <robin_sz> perfect for HPGL
[22:25:58] <robin_sz> this is 4 axes ... cutting on rectangular tubes, with radiussed corners
[22:26:54] <robin_sz> cutting on the faces is easy enough, you can describe that in gcode easily
[22:27:06] <robin_sz> it the cutting round the corners thats more tricky
[22:31:16] <robin_sz> I have the idea of 6 edges ... the 6 lines where the flat face meets the corner radius
[22:31:45] <robin_sz> cuts on a face are just XY gcode moved if you like,
[22:32:19] <robin_sz> a cut to an edge, then to the next edge cause the tube to rotate and the face containg the second edge to be selelcted
[22:32:33] <JymmmEMC> isn't it just an arc?
[22:32:41] <robin_sz> nah
[22:33:07] <jepler> so you can move in XY and also rotate the tube?
[22:33:12] <robin_sz> yep
[22:33:32] <robin_sz> as the tube rotates and the cutter goes "around" the corner, z moves too
[22:34:13] <jepler> oh, so you want the head just above the pipe no matter what angle it's at
[22:35:32] <JymmmEMC> anyone know how to xforward? or a url by chance?
[22:35:45] <robin_sz> jepler, exactly
[22:35:59] <robin_sz> Jymmm, from the box with the display ...
[22:36:17] <robin_sz> ssh -X name.of.box.that.hass.the.application
[22:37:18] <robin_sz> jepler, its complicated by I do NOT want to change the "gcode" program if the tube is say, different corner radius
[22:37:36] <robin_sz> batches can vary
[22:39:10] <robin_sz> http://www.altamarinc.com/images/Sq%20end%20cut%20plus.mpg
[22:39:17] <robin_sz> Very VERY kewl video
[22:41:21] <robin_sz> thats an odd machine actually, thats a 5 axis
[22:41:45] <robin_sz> mine will be just 4
[22:43:43] <JymmmEMC> ok, I'm connected, how would I startup emc from the remote shell?
[22:49:08] <JymmmEMC> ah, got it
[22:50:51] <robin_sz> its not that efficient in some ways, as it is encrypting your X cleint over the network, but it is the easiest way to do it
[22:51:47] <JymmmEMC> Benchtop real estate is at a premium here... So want to run emc on this new machine, and control it from the laptop.
[22:52:10] <robin_sz> http://www.lasercutting.co.uk/video/652semoval.avi
[22:52:14] <robin_sz> now .. thatys kewl
[22:53:29] <robin_sz> there is the $ xhost + command too
[22:53:54] <robin_sz> do that on the laptop (the x server)
[22:54:16] <Jymmm> ?
[22:54:22] <robin_sz> and set the DISPLAY variable on the emc box (the X client) to point to it
[22:54:54] <robin_sz> then you should be able to do the same thing, but without the encryption overhead
[22:55:34] <robin_sz> and just remember, X is the "worng way" around
[22:55:44] <robin_sz> the thing with the display is the "x server"
[22:55:49] <Jymmm> x server == client
[22:56:03] <robin_sz> and the application is the client
[22:56:27] <Jymmm> Yeah, cleared that ambigouty up yesterday =)
[22:56:42] <robin_sz> you need to know that or the docs make no fscking sense at all :)
[22:57:00] <Jymmm> no doubt
[22:57:18] <Jymmm> brb, need refill
[22:57:40] <robin_sz> beer?
[22:57:45] <robin_sz> coffee?
[22:58:36] <robin_sz> ach, bedtime
[23:01:10] <Jymmm> oj
[23:01:25] <Jymmm> robin_sz now what were you saying w/o the encryption overhead?
[23:01:52] <robin_sz> on you laptop
[23:01:59] <robin_sz> in a terminal type:
[23:02:03] <robin_sz> xhost +
[23:02:44] <robin_sz> on the emc box:
[23:03:14] <Jymmm> whoa... I killed the connection on the laptop and it rebooted the emc box!
[23:03:46] <robin_sz> most odd
[23:04:32] <Jymmm> ok, it rebooted to the login prompt now
[23:04:42] <robin_sz> type:
[23:05:11] <Jymmm> access control disabled: clients can connect from any host.
[23:05:38] <robin_sz> (on the emc box) export DISPLAY=laptop.jymms.house.com:0.0
[23:05:48] <robin_sz> or whatever IP or name the laptop is
[23:06:16] <robin_sz> then run emc
[23:06:23] <robin_sz> the display SHOULD opne on your laptop
[23:07:08] <Jymmm> trying now...
[23:08:27] <robin_sz> it can take a bit of messing about with
[23:09:11] <Jymmm> cant find export, only vgexport
[23:09:19] <robin_sz> ?
[23:09:30] <robin_sz> export is a bash command
[23:09:48] <robin_sz> it like MUST be there ...
[23:09:52] <robin_sz> liek ls and mv
[23:10:14] <robin_sz> or try:
[23:10:23] <Jymmm> ok, it did it
[23:10:34] <robin_sz> works?
[23:11:30] <Jymmm> it tried to work =) couldn't open on laptop.
[23:11:32] <Jymmm> But...
[23:11:44] <Jymmm> the problem will be that i won't have a crt on the emc box
[23:11:57] <robin_sz> thats OK, just ssh to the emc box ...
[23:12:03] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[23:12:17] <robin_sz> ssh -X is easiest, but has overhead
[23:12:32] <robin_sz> using xhost + is more fiddly, but lighter
[23:12:40] <Jymmm> 100mbps full duplex lan.
[23:12:52] <robin_sz> depends on how much processor power you have free for encryption
[23:13:09] <Jymmm> ah, a lot more than X I hope =)
[23:13:31] <robin_sz> remember ..
[23:13:38] <robin_sz> when those digits are jogging round
[23:13:52] <robin_sz> theres lots of data to be encrypted and decrytpred at the other end
[23:14:18] <robin_sz> SSH will be tunneling everything through the crypter
[23:14:29] <Jymmm> yeah, forgot about that.
[23:14:43] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:14:53] <robin_sz> its the control info for the display remember
[23:14:58] <robin_sz> in tedious detail
[23:15:33] <Jymmm> Error in startup script: invalid command name "image"
[23:15:51] <robin_sz> shurg
[23:15:57] <robin_sz> ok bedtime for me
[23:16:02] <Jymmm> heh, G'night
[23:16:04] <Jymmm> thanks
[23:16:11] <robin_sz> assuming I can find a hot blonde ;)
[23:16:13] <robin_sz> night