#emc | Logs for 2006-07-19

[00:00:23] <Rugludallur> skunksworks: I bought all volumes in one and used it to read while on planes
[00:00:38] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: Good 2 weeks
[00:05:15] <robin_sz> the basics are failry simple to learn .. get off the ground, lanbd again, don;t run out of fuel halfway
[00:06:20] <skunkworks> I had one huge book that had them all in.. bed time reading
[00:06:24] <robin_sz> heh
[00:06:38] <robin_sz> Trevor Thom is the guy around here for that
[00:07:51] <Rugludallur> At least I can honestly say that flying (even without wings or parachute) is very very very safe,, it's the landing that is a bit more risky
[00:08:13] <jmkasunich> unplanned landings are the worst
[00:08:15] <robin_sz> true enough ...
[00:08:42] <robin_sz> I did something mroe scary than that today ... riding around on a dirt bike with my 6 yr old son
[00:08:43] <jmkasunich> come to think of it, unplanned flight isn't much fun either
[00:10:14] <robin_sz> I think he needs to work on his throttle control a fair bit yet ;)
[00:10:37] <jmkasunich> binary throttle?
[00:10:43] <robin_sz> pretty much ...
[00:10:56] <robin_sz> with a tendency to change state while cornering
[00:46:05] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: I have been working a bit on vcp and I wonder if you got a minute or two for a question ?
[00:46:13] <jmkasunich> sure
[00:46:26] <jmkasunich> (were you the one that posted a message about a toggle button?)
[00:46:34] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: yup, already implemented it
[00:46:41] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: and a spin button to
[00:47:03] <jmkasunich> do you have developer access to commit the code? or do you want to send it to me?
[00:47:25] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: I don't have dev access so if you could look it over and check it in that would be great
[00:48:08] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: I got everything working but I found something a bit odd, ATTRIB_FLOAT in vcp_main is defined as a double, is there any special reason for that or .. ?
[00:48:08] <jmkasunich> sure
[00:48:37] <jmkasunich> doubles are more precise, and are the usual default for C code
[00:48:52] <jmkasunich> I only use floats in HAL because I want to be sure they are accessed atomically
[00:48:55] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: ok , cause float pin in hal seems to be float and not double
[00:49:02] <jmkasunich> 32 bit floats are, 64 bit doubles, maybe not
[00:49:35] <jmkasunich> use doubles for intermediate calcs, etc, and convert to float at the last minute - maximized precision/resolution
[00:49:48] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: got it
[00:50:09] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: want me to send the code to your sourceforge address ?
[00:50:37] <jmkasunich> you can send it to jmkasunich at att dot net... that is a little more direct
[00:50:58] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: btw feel free to flame me or change the code in any way you want, I have only be learning C since Friday so .. :D
[00:52:20] <jmkasunich> I won't flame... might change things tho ;-)
[00:52:56] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: I can diff and see which things should be done in a better fashion so it's all good
[00:54:57] <jmkasunich> Rugludallur: as long as it compiles, I'll figure it out
[00:55:08] <jmkasunich> (compiles and runs would be better ;-)
[00:56:39] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: Just making some final checks, I will send it in 10 minutes or so
[00:57:07] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:33:57] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, !bookmark
[01:33:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm logging. I don't understand '!bookmark', A-L-P-H-A. Try /msg logger_aj help
[01:34:00] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[01:34:00] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[01:49:55] <cradek> jmkasunich: you say on the G0 Feedrates wiki page that F on a G0 line is not allowed - where did you see that? EMC does not disallow it and I can't find in the ngc spec that it should.
[01:50:22] <jmkasunich> I didn't say that (I didn't write the page, robin did)
[01:50:42] <jmkasunich> I wasn't sure _what_ emc does when it sees an F word on a G0 line
[01:50:44] <cradek> ok it's not at all clear who said what
[01:50:55] <cradek> it just changes the F rate
[01:51:00] <jmkasunich> does it set the feedrate to be used by the next G1/2/3 line?
[01:51:01] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:51:04] <cradek> yes
[01:51:09] <cradek> so we break ngc if we make this change
[01:51:15] <cradek> that's why I was pulling for a new gcode
[01:51:21] <SWPadnos> IRC often looks like Yoda is present
[01:51:36] <cradek> instead of making G0 F do a new thing
[01:52:14] <jmkasunich> right - I agree, we should _not_ change the behavior of any existing legal g-code program
[01:54:37] <cradek> I added a comment at the end of the page.
[01:54:46] <cradek> and I've forgotten what I went to the wiki to do in the first place
[01:54:52] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:55:09] <cradek> oh lathe
[01:55:25] <cradek> I should make a habit of checking out the RecentChanges on the wiki
[01:56:52] <SWPadnos> does AXIS save setup yet (like window size/position, that sort of thing)?
[01:59:28] <cradek> nope, it never will save window position, not sure about window size, but one of these days I think it should save the options on the View menu
[01:59:47] <cradek> (as we're adding more and more of them)
[02:00:39] <SWPadnos> that's what made me think of it actually - the DTG display
[02:00:49] <cradek> (jepler and I disagree about one of the default settings on the view menu...)
[02:01:02] <cradek> that'll probably drive it more than anything :-)
[02:01:07] <SWPadnos> any reason why it can't make an ini file in the emc.ini dir, or just put an AXIS section in the emc ini?
[02:01:08] <SWPadnos> he
[02:01:10] <SWPadnos> h
[02:01:22] <cradek> no that's the way to do it if you don't want autosave
[02:01:44] <cradek> it already uses that for some stuff
[02:01:48] <SWPadnos> no autosave because the user may not have write permissions to emc.ini or its dir?
[02:01:54] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:02:56] <cradek> not sure how I feel about rewriting the ini...
[02:03:19] <SWPadnos> it would destroy access information, but otherwise should be safe
[02:03:25] <cradek> well actually I am pretty sure how I feel, I'm just being polite
[02:03:28] <SWPadnos> (possibly after a rewrite of the ini handling code )
[02:04:11] <cradek> let's hash this out sometime jepler is around too
[02:04:17] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:04:31] <cradek> reading defaults from the ini is easy
[02:04:39] <cradek> but I'm not sure how best to save them
[02:04:44] <cradek> so maybe we should do part 1
[02:05:03] <SWPadnos> saving to an [AXIS] section makes sense to me
[02:06:09] <cradek> ok I understand why you think that, but I disagree
[02:06:11] <SWPadnos> it also allows you to not rewrite anything else - just read strings, delete the contents of the AXIS section if found, append a new section if it's not found, then insert the strings in the AXIS section
[02:06:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:07:04] <SWPadnos> it's compatible with other DISPLAY settings, since they can all have their own sections that won't conflict
[02:07:26] <cradek> I think there's no reason for the ini to be writable by normal users
[02:07:37] <cradek> therefore doing a new thing that requires that is a bad idea
[02:07:43] <jmkasunich> I couldn't keep my mouth shut...
[02:07:51] <SWPadnos> sure - hence the axis.ini in the ini dir idea ;)
[02:08:16] <cradek> no, that's what the home directory is for - user-specific settings
[02:08:26] <SWPadnos> they would be config-specific
[02:08:29] <jmkasunich> .axisrc?
[02:08:30] <cradek> you like DTG, I don't, why should we share that option?
[02:08:44] <SWPadnos> I like it on my lathe, but not on my mill ...
[02:08:57] <jmkasunich> you like axis, I like tkemc... why is that option in the ini?
[02:09:10] <jmkasunich> it gets gray pretty quickly
[02:09:16] <cradek> jmkasunich: you don't want to know my opinion on that
[02:09:29] <jmkasunich> I can guess ;-)
[02:09:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:10:14] <jmkasunich> we've had this discussion before
[02:10:42] <cradek> yeah and if it tends to lead nowhere let's stop
[02:10:55] <jmkasunich> for every case one person comes up with (and an associated set of rules for storing config info), someone else can come up with another case that needs completley different rules
[02:10:59] <SWPadnos> I suppose ~/axis.ini could have sections named for the different ini files, like [~/emc2/my-stuff/lathe-setup.ini]
[02:11:33] <SWPadnos> so you write settings to your own dir, and you still have separate settings for different configs
[02:11:56] <cradek> it's almost as if we need to revamp our idea of configs
[02:12:09] <jmkasunich> ya think?
[02:12:11] <SWPadnos> probably true
[02:12:12] <cradek> but like you say everyone will have a favorite way
[02:12:20] <SWPadnos> obviously my way is best
[02:12:27] <jmkasunich> no, my way!
[02:12:30] <SWPadnos> whatever way that is
[02:12:32] <cradek> someone's favorite will probably be "the way it is dammit"
[02:12:40] <cradek> surely my way is better
[02:12:50] <SWPadnos> he who writes the code gets his way, I imagine :)
[02:12:59] <jmkasunich> there, we've fastforwarded thru the entire discussion in only five minutes...
[02:13:01] <cradek> no, he who commits last
[02:13:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:13:04] <jmkasunich> now we can do something else
[02:13:08] <cradek> yay
[02:13:39] <SWPadnos> does emc support a 12-axis dual-hexapod machine?
[02:13:43] <cradek> I like the way jmk phrases "you don't have any idea what you're talking about" as "do you have any idea what you're talking about?"
[02:13:44] <SWPadnos> (that should qwualify as something else)
[02:13:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:14:31] <Dallur> well im hitting the sack, good night
[03:34:00] <rayh> Hey les_w You around
[03:34:21] <rayh> Got a guy in Rome GA that wants to visit EMC shops.
[03:34:33] <rayh> Anyone else near there?
[12:15:05] <Dallur> VCP looking pretty good for the plasma THC now :> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/Dallur_vcp.png
[12:17:20] <jepler> Dallur: nice.
[12:18:46] <Dallur> jepler: thanks
[12:19:40] <Dallur> jepler: Still missing a couple of features, right now I am looking at a way to throttle velocity of a single axis
[12:21:05] <jepler> I'm not sure what you mean
[12:21:38] <Dallur> hmmm well I know that other THC systems enable the user to set the adjustment speed of the Z axis
[12:22:22] <Dallur> so if it is determined that the Torch needs to move up for better cutting it sets the speed at which corrections are made (velocity) for the Z axis
[12:23:27] <jepler> this is something beyond what a "mult2" block can do?
[12:24:48] <Dallur> jepler: hmm the question is how to apply this to velocity output from a stepgen
[12:25:58] <Dallur> jepler: hmm perhaps I can just overwrite the maxvel parameter without any problems
[12:27:05] <jepler> I don't know if vcp provides for modifying parameters or not
[12:27:21] <Dallur> jepler: that's easy :D
[12:27:48] <Dallur> jepler: hook up vcp with pin into hal, use hal to do the math and convert the pin into a param.
[12:28:37] <Dallur> jepler: hmm or hold on , no constant is the other way around, it is parameter -> pin :P
[12:30:59] <jepler> you have a +1 or -1 signal that goes through some blocks and eventually creates a position input for stepgen?
[12:32:21] <Dallur> jepler: nope, the way I implemented it is I created a max/min coord on the axis and I use that as a destination untill a trigger I receive a signal
[12:32:52] <Dallur> jepler: untill I receive a trigger signal indicating that the desired position has been reached that is
[12:33:15] <jepler> oh
[12:33:46] <jepler> did you think about using freqgen instead of stepgen?
[12:33:50] <jepler> freqgen takes a velocity input
[12:34:08] <Dallur> jepler: yes, I have thought about creating an "oldschool" freqgen stepper setup
[12:34:31] <Dallur> but ,, I would rather not if I can use stepgen (much easier for people to configure imho)
[12:35:53] <jepler> you know you can use stepgen for XY and freqgen for Z, right?
[12:36:12] <Dallur> jepler: yup, I might just do that :D
[12:36:33] <jepler> then you take +1, 0, -1 -> mult2 -> freqgen velocity input
[12:36:50] <jepler> to me, without knowing any of the details, it sounds very simple
[12:38:20] <jepler> you could also make a new 'limit2'-like block where the parameters are pins
[12:38:47] <Dallur> I will look into which way is best
[12:40:04] <Dallur> thanks
[12:41:03] <jepler> you're welcome
[12:44:20] <Dallur> hmm I just had a thought about the UIs, I bet it would be really nice to have the axis represented each as a spin button, this way in addition to having good jog control for the mouse you could type in the desired position
[12:48:25] <jepler> I guess I don't mind typing an MDI command for that
[12:50:01] <Dallur> :D
[12:50:53] <jepler> one reason tkemc wouldn't do it is because there's not an NML message for "move axis 'i' to position 'v'" .. the implementation would have to be: switch to MDI mode, issue MDI command, switch back to manual mode
[12:51:38] <fenn> i think he meant using the mouse scroll wheel to set the jog speed/increment
[12:52:20] <fenn> or did you mean like a "virtual jog wheel"?
[12:52:40] <Dallur> fenn: nope, jepler got it right I think
[12:53:14] <jepler> fenn's idea is interesting, to allow the mouse wheel to be captured and used as a jog wheel
[12:53:19] <Dallur> fenn: btw, I always ment to tell you that there is still a bug with classicladder since the other day
[12:53:42] <fenn> what is the bug?
[12:54:15] <Dallur> fenn: if you have many ladders (enough so you get a scroll bar) if you resize the window enough to make the scroll bar go away it clears the entire window
[12:55:38] <Dallur> I think fenns idea is considerably better than mine :D
[12:55:38] <fenn> since i really haven't done anything i suppose i should just revert to how it was before
[12:55:55] <fenn> and just print the hal signals in that %vars window
[12:56:22] <Dallur> dunno, your call I just wanted to let you know
[12:56:35] <Dallur> fenn: are they supposed to be printed in the diagram window now ?
[12:56:43] <fenn> no i never finished it
[12:57:14] <fenn> the problem is that it draws all the symbols on a single big drawing area
[12:57:28] <fenn> but what i want is one little widget for each symbol that i can hook a tooltip to
[12:57:49] <jepler> sounds like the trouble I ran into with halscope when I wanted to use tooltips
[12:57:51] <Dallur> that would be really cool though,
[12:57:57] <jepler> I ended up putting that information in a "status-bar" type area
[12:58:18] <fenn> the problem is shuffling the data around all these functions
[12:59:41] <fenn> * fenn goes to try to reproduce dallur's bug
[13:00:58] <Dallur> fyi I expect maVaTi to release a new version of classicladder in the next couple of weeks, and once he does I will start work to sync our classicladder up with his most recent version
[13:01:41] <Dallur> that will give us some cool things like the ability to use float input/output
[13:02:05] <jepler> sounds neat
[13:02:28] <Dallur> enables us to have configurable timers and
[13:02:32] <Dallur> more stuff
[13:03:07] <Dallur> that is the last piece of the puzzle im missing for the THC
[13:03:36] <jepler> Dallur: you're working with jmk to get your halvcp improvements put in CVS, right?
[13:04:48] <Dallur> jepler: yup, sent him my updates yesterday
[13:19:56] <fenn> oh nice.. dallur-advanced.ini locks the computer up for some reason
[13:21:33] <fenn> hopefully it will be something easy like base_period
[13:23:32] <Rugludallur> fenn: fyi the dallur-advanced.hal has not been updated in a while so it is an older version but should still work for your classicladder stuff
[13:25:45] <fenn> good - it no longer locks up when i change traj_period and servo_period to 1000000
[13:28:25] <fenn> i'm not seeing this classicladder bug - presumably you were seeing it with dallur-advanced.clp?
[13:28:26] <Rugludallur> fenn: might be worth while to commit those changes so that the sample config does not lock up peoples machines :Ð
[13:28:35] <fenn> yeah
[13:28:38] <Rugludallur> yes
[13:28:44] <Rugludallur> if you resize the classicladder window
[13:28:59] <Rugludallur> it goes white once you have gone beyond the actual size
[13:30:14] <Rugludallur> if you only resize horizontal
[13:31:11] <Rugludallur> still not getting the same problem ?
[13:31:26] <Rugludallur> s/same/that/g
[13:31:39] <CIA-19> 03fenn 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: changed TRAJ_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD to higher values so it doesnt lock up on slower machines (probably overkill)
[13:32:04] <fenn> i notice it flickers a lot while resizing
[13:35:03] <Rugludallur> http://imagebin.org/5670
[13:35:12] <Rugludallur> this is what happens when I rezise
[13:35:15] <Rugludallur> errr resize
[13:43:49] <fenn> Rugludallur: and you have a version of classicladder that works correctly right?
[13:44:08] <Rugludallur> Rugludallur, I build from head,,
[13:44:19] <Rugludallur> fenn: I just build from head
[13:44:34] <fenn> i mean, is there some version that works correctly that i can compare to?
[13:44:43] <fenn> so i can see what changed
[13:44:48] <Rugludallur> fenn: 2.0.1 release
[13:44:52] <Rugludallur> for example
[13:45:03] <fenn> because right now i dont see anything significantly different in head
[13:45:54] <Rugludallur> fenn: were you able to reproduce ?
[13:48:14] <Rugludallur> btw, is it ok if I create a div2 block ?
[13:48:33] <Rugludallur> or is there a better way to do float division ?
[13:49:21] <cradek> * scale = gain/offset block - out = in * gain + offset
[13:49:45] <Rugludallur> thx
[13:50:13] <cradek> oh "gain" is a param, not what you want if you want to divide one pin by another
[13:50:35] <Rugludallur> nope
[13:50:51] <cradek> if you need that I think you should add it to blocks, not make a whole new component
[13:51:20] <cradek> I don't know how you can handle the divide by zero case though
[13:51:30] <Rugludallur> I was thinking about that
[13:51:42] <Rugludallur> 1 and 2
[13:52:32] <cradek> there's a 2-pin multiplier
[13:52:36] <cradek> can you multiply instead of divide?
[13:52:44] <cradek> I bet the /0 case is why there's no div block
[13:52:52] <cradek> brb
[13:53:40] <Rugludallur> I can possibly multiply (make the input 0.55 instead of 55) but it would look at bit silly
[13:54:21] <fenn> i notice that the new classicladder links to a number of extra libraries since 2.0.1
[13:57:03] <Rugludallur> fenn: I remember the date this started, I can look it up if you want in the logs
[13:59:14] <Rugludallur> 2006-07-02
[13:59:42] <Rugludallur> was the day I noticed it and I was using it alot those days
[14:06:19] <fenn> Rugludallur: i do get something like that if i resize the window like 600 times in a row
[14:06:20] <cradek> fenn: someone reformatted the code so it's a bit hard to see what all has changed
[14:06:30] <fenn> but eventually it fixes itself
[14:06:33] <Rugludallur> fenn: wierd, let me try on the linux box itself
[14:06:39] <fenn> as soon as the cpu usage goes back down a bit
[14:06:51] <Rugludallur> fenn: it refreshes over here to but after a long long tmie
[14:07:00] <Rugludallur> s/tmie/time/
[14:08:14] <fenn> * fenn plays with .ini period settings
[14:08:38] <Rugludallur> I just tried with your period settings, same
[14:17:39] <fenn> if i pause the emc process (ctrl-Z in the terminal) it looks the same as your screenshot
[14:18:05] <fenn> i'm probably using the term process wrong
[14:18:47] <fenn> ah no that's not right.. it doesn't have the white drawing area
[14:27:19] <fenn> i dont think i'm getting anywhere
[14:27:53] <Rugludallur> its not critical, everything still words so
[14:27:56] <Rugludallur> ...
[14:29:54] <fenn> when i resize the window a zillion times the symbols are still drawn, i dont get any white background
[14:30:42] <Rugludallur> fenn, hmm not the same as with me
[14:31:00] <Rugludallur> lets just forget about this and hope it goes away :P
[14:31:20] <fenn> what version of gtk is classicladder linked to? (ldd bin/classicladder)
[14:32:23] <Rugludallur> libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0xb7c89000)
[14:33:19] <fenn> here i have libgtk-1.2.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 (0xb7daa000)
[14:34:08] <Rugludallur> but you are using gtk 2 for emc2 right ?
[14:34:54] <fenn> i have both 1.2 and 2.0 installed, it seems to be whatever configure picks
[14:35:43] <Rugludallur> I think you might be on to something there
[14:36:47] <Rugludallur> because my 2.0.1 uses 1.2
[14:40:04] <fenn> arg pkg-config is so stupid
[14:40:15] <Rugludallur> im going to try again with 1.2
[14:40:29] <fenn> there is a --with-gtk= option in configure
[14:40:36] <fenn> --with-gtk_ver= i mean
[14:40:57] <jepler> fenn: emc 2.0.x configure uses 1.2 if both 1.2 and 2.0 are present
[14:41:04] <jepler> emc 2.1.x configure uses 2.0 if both 1.2 and 2.0 are present
[14:41:09] <jepler> but as yet we don't *require* 2.x
[14:41:53] <fenn> der.. why does my just-updated-and-compiled emc use 1.2 then?
[14:42:13] <jepler> do you have the 2.0 development packages installed?
[14:42:35] <Rugludallur> I only had 2.0 but I just installed 1.2 aswell and i am testing now
[14:47:08] <Rugludallur> Classicladder will not work fully with gtk2.0 untill we/i update it ,
[14:47:42] <fenn> are you saying the bug goes away with gtk 1.2?
[14:47:59] <Rugludallur> give me a sec, just finishing up
[14:48:05] <Rugludallur> I will verify if that is the case
[14:50:48] <fenn> anyone know where i'm supposed to get these .pc files pkg-config always wants?
[14:53:00] <Rugludallur> confirmed, the bug is not there with gtk1.2
[14:54:12] <fenn> guess i gotta figure out why its not picking 2.0 on my system then
[14:54:57] <jepler> $ apt-file search gtk+-2.0.pc
[14:54:57] <jepler> libgtk2.0-dev: usr/lib/pkgconfig/gtk+-2.0.pc
[14:55:14] <fenn> i just have gtk+.pc
[14:55:53] <fenn> it boils down to this line in the end though right? Libs: -L${libdir} -lgtk
[15:12:16] <fenn> alright it finds 2.0 after i get libgtk2.0-dev
[15:12:28] <fenn> guess that should've been obvious
[15:22:33] <Dallur> How much work should one put into making things look good with both gtk 1.2 and 2.0 ?
[15:22:34] <Dallur> do we expect people to use 2.1.0 with 1.2 ?
[15:22:56] <fenn> no
[15:23:28] <fenn> if 2.0 is made a requirement then apt-get will suck in all the packages and that will be that
[15:23:39] <fenn> (famous last words)
[15:23:54] <Dallur> ok, I just wanted to make sure because 1.2 can't handle tab chars within labels or buttons but 2.0 can
[15:24:29] <fenn> i can reproduce the bug with 2.0
[15:25:09] <fenn> so, now its just a matter of digging through classicladder to find what goes wrong.. :(
[15:25:16] <Dallur> :(
[15:27:29] <fenn> a debugger should help with this though
[15:28:00] <fenn> * fenn waits and waits for emc to compile..
[15:28:35] <Dallur> does it really take that long ?
[15:28:51] <Dallur> it's not more than 3 minutes or so for me
[15:28:58] <SWPadnos> depends on whether your CPU is GHz or MHz
[15:29:06] <fenn> it seems to be really slow this time
[15:29:38] <Dallur> yup, but anything over 1GHz should be done in < 5 min
[15:29:40] <fenn> might have something to do with the extra 20 megs of packages gtk+-2.0 dragged with it
[15:31:25] <fenn> this is a 400mhz computer i found in a dumpster
[15:31:37] <Dallur> ahh,
[15:58:23] <fenn> ok bug still there 91 days ago so its not due to anything i changed
[15:59:24] <Dallur> ok, so it might have just always been there but I did not notice untill I compiled with gtk2 ,
[15:59:32] <fenn> right
[16:00:16] <fenn> * fenn submits a bug report and goes to bed
[16:00:27] <Dallur> nite fenn
[16:00:30] <Dallur> thanks for all the help
[18:59:13] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: restore alpha blending of backplot
[19:03:07] <cradek> huh I didn't know it was gone...
[19:03:38] <bpmw> HI guys! Cradek do you have a few minuts?
[19:03:47] <cradek> yep
[19:04:32] <bpmw> Great, I was going to try and get help on the ubuntu site but theres a million people there
[19:04:39] <cradek> uh-oh
[19:04:45] <bpmw> Lol
[19:04:52] <cradek> surely the million, together, are smarter than me
[19:05:05] <bpmw> Its probably not that tough
[19:06:24] <bpmw> Situation, I installed ubuntu server an a machine and now i can't seem to get gnome to install
[19:06:46] <bpmw> or any gui for that matter.
[19:06:47] <cradek> why not use the default install if you want gnome?
[19:07:52] <bpmw> server disk as I found out only is a base install, you have to add packages after. but i dont seem to be able to
[19:07:52] <cradek> there's "ubuntu-desktop" which is a meta-package that sucks in all of gnome, etc., as dependencies
[19:08:07] <cradek> yes server means no gui is installed
[19:08:31] <bpmw> so I should try sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[19:08:45] <cradek> yes that might do it
[19:08:49] <cradek> not sure as I've never tried this
[19:09:20] <bpmw> I'll give that a whirl, brb
[19:10:30] <bpmw> error message says "can't find package ubuntu-desktop"
[19:10:51] <cradek> check your sources.list and run apt-get update
[19:11:21] <bpmw> Ok, wher do I find that?
[19:11:39] <cradek> /etc/apt
[19:11:57] <cradek> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted
[19:12:01] <cradek> this might be the line you need
[19:12:09] <cradek> make sure they're not commented out or something
[19:12:26] <bpmw> Ok Ill check, brb
[19:14:12] <bpmw> There is a file there, how do I open it from a command prompt?
[19:15:08] <jepler> you can 'cat' it, or edit it with 'sudo -e'
[19:15:58] <bpmw> ok thanks
[19:21:28] <bpmw> Cradek, I un commented everything, now how do I save it?
[19:21:47] <cradek> I don't know what editor you're using
[19:21:53] <cradek> does it say on the screen?
[19:22:06] <bpmw> Not that
[19:22:28] <cradek> not what?
[19:22:34] <bpmw> sudo -e
[19:22:51] <cradek> does it say on the screen the name of the editor?
[19:23:01] <bpmw> one sec
[19:23:18] <cradek> some beginners editors even have the documentation on the screen telling you what to type to do tings
[19:23:21] <cradek> things
[19:23:31] <bpmw> GNU nano
[19:24:07] <cradek> it says how to exit at the bottom of the screen: control-x
[19:24:53] <bpmw> I ve seen that but does it save as well
[19:25:05] <cradek> yes I think so
[19:25:12] <cradek> it'll probably ask
[19:25:22] <bpmw> ok, ill try that
[19:28:48] <bpmw> Cradek, still get error can't fing package even after sudo apt-get update.
[19:29:01] <cradek> does the network work?
[19:29:55] <bpmw> I can ping my other computers but haven't tried out through firewall
[19:30:38] <bpmw> Hang on a sec and I'll try pinging my ISP
[19:31:41] <bpmw> didn't work, what is the command to add a gateway
[19:33:20] <bpmw> Man this stuff is so much easier with a gui to work with :)
[19:34:16] <cradek> is there some reason you can't easily just reinstall?
[19:34:42] <cradek> it sounds like you're a bit lost with those tools missing
[19:35:46] <bpmw> Well I quess i could install ubuntu 5.1 then add the server stuff. I did't know the server editions were so trim
[19:36:17] <cradek> yeah I guess server really means "no gui"
[19:36:25] <cradek> it's about leaving stuff out, not adding stuff
[19:36:34] <bpmw> NO S**T
[19:38:28] <bpmw> Ok Ill do that. Thanks again for being so helpfull. If you ever get to Manitoba i'll take you fishing!! Best regards, Vern
[19:38:49] <cradek> ok you're welcome, good luck
[19:39:05] <bpmw> Bye for now!
[20:37:11] <Rugludallur> Does anyone know about any documenation for TOOL_TABLE things ?
[20:37:53] <cradek> what do you mean?
[20:38:19] <Rugludallur> well, I wanted to start to create a tool table for plasma cutting, different tips have different cut widths and pierce heights and such
[20:38:55] <Rugludallur> and I looked through the wiki, looked at the sample config and there does not seem to be much to go by, I can dive into the code but I decided to ask first if anyone knew of any info
[20:38:57] <cradek> you can do radius compensation to deal with the widths, but I don't know how you'll deal with heights
[20:39:56] <cradek> radius comp should just work without any trouble
[20:40:09] <Rugludallur> yup,
[20:40:17] <cradek> there's tool height offset (g43) as well, but I don't think you're using the actual Z output at all are you?
[20:40:38] <cradek> that's how you move Z up or down when you change tools
[20:41:23] <Rugludallur> well I am using Z output, im just overriding it when I need to
[20:41:34] <cradek> I see
[20:42:06] <Rugludallur> I was hoping I would be able to set in the different amp settings and do a lookup into the table and import the values
[20:42:39] <Rugludallur> perhaps it is not worth it, rather just have people set it for each project
[20:43:16] <Rugludallur> but at least I can do the radius compensation
[20:43:31] <cradek> the tool length offset is available to the guis in the stat buffer, it maybe could be made accessible in a halui pin
[20:43:43] <Rugludallur> ok, great thanks
[20:43:54] <cradek> is that what you need? the "tool" length on a hal pin?
[20:44:17] <Rugludallur> yup, or something like that
[20:44:48] <Rugludallur> that would mean that tool radius = cut width
[20:44:58] <cradek> no, tool diameter = cut width
[20:44:59] <Rugludallur> and tool length = standoff
[20:45:06] <Rugludallur> cradek: correct :D
[20:46:04] <cradek> looking at the code, I think making the tool length and diameter/radius into hal pins is easy
[20:46:20] <Rugludallur> hmm come to think of it when plasma cutting it is actually the plasma flame so it makes sense in a way
[20:46:36] <Rugludallur> that is to say it is the plasma flame that is the tool
[20:51:18] <cradek> if you file a feature request for tool length and diameter on halui pins, I bet alex will do it when he gets back, if I don't get to it first
[20:51:34] <Rugludallur> Will do :D
[20:51:51] <cradek> maybe for good measure also include the loaded tool number
[20:53:15] <cradek> 4pm, have to run, talk to you later
[20:54:31] <Rugludallur> later
[20:58:49] <Jymmm> Looking for a 120 degree V-bit, any suggestions?
[22:26:08] <Rugludallur> Anyone have a picture of an end mill they can release under creative commons, I am writing a short wiki page on the tool table and I wanted to have a pic there to demonstrate the tool offsets
[22:26:30] <Jymmm> check mediawikia
[22:26:34] <Rugludallur> Tried all the normal sources for CC images but turned up empty and I don't have any here
[22:26:59] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_mill
[22:27:42] <Rugludallur> great, thanks
[22:27:46] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MillingCutterSlotEndMillBallnose.jpg
[22:28:05] <Rugludallur> Jymmm: that is actually a great pic for explaining :D
[22:28:43] <Jymmm> It's the FIRST place I'd ever look
[22:29:40] <Rugludallur> Jymmm: True, I searched wikimedia and came up empty so I figured nothing was on wikipedia, assumption is the mother of all fockups :D*
[22:43:09] <Rugludallur> Is the length of endmills generally measured from the start of the threads or end to end ?
[22:43:22] <Rugludallur> (I have never owned or operated a mill)
[22:44:03] <Rugludallur> Also, when measuring length of non-square end mills should the length be the center or edge '
[22:44:04] <Rugludallur> ?
[22:47:11] <Rugludallur> hmm none of the mill ppl here ?
[22:47:39] <Jymmm> http://store.multicam.com/osc/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=65e9a30a07411687397db6ef46cdd28f
[22:48:33] <Jymmm> https://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/definitions
[22:50:57] <Rugludallur> Jymmm: great, hmm to bad it does not really fit with the way we define end mills in the tool table :P
[22:54:34] <jepler> subject: computer fans. What is the difference between a "ball" and a "2 ball" fan? No jokes please.
[22:55:08] <Jymmm> one ball ? Where are you seeing this?
[22:55:19] <jepler> shopping for a CPU fan. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2000110062+1057608546+1294418552&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=62
[22:56:08] <Jymmm> Double Ball Bearing Fans
[22:56:44] <Jymmm> Features: 80% Quieter Than Standard Case Fan. Double Ball Bearing Fans for Extended Life.
[22:57:14] <Jymmm> jepler, looks liek it's quiter
[22:58:14] <jepler> hahaha http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/35-192-007-02.JPG
[22:58:58] <Jymmm> video card cooler ?
[23:03:36] <jepler> bbl
[23:30:06] <Jymmm> hi Ray
[23:38:21] <jepler> hi rayh
[23:58:42] <Jymmm> jepler, rude, aint he
[23:59:43] <Jymmm> jepler, If he wasn't on dialup and would take him 85 years to reconnect, I'd give em da boot!