#emc | Logs for 2006-07-18

[00:00:12] <Rugludallur> jimfleig: not in the more recent machines, yours probably requies SDRAM memory which most likely does not need to be added in pairs
[00:00:15] <jepler> you need to make sure it's the same type and speed of memory
[00:00:36] <jimfleig> is this printed on the memory?
[00:00:42] <jepler> I recently added memory to some similar machines (P3, 750MHz or something like that) -- I think they took "PC133 SDRAM" in single pieces.
[00:00:53] <jepler> the memory I added had stickers
[00:00:54] <Rugludallur> jimfleigh: yes it is printed on, mhz and type
[00:01:23] <jimfleig> thanks, gotta go
[00:01:32] <jepler> see you
[00:17:21] <Mess> Less-wires ROCKS at home...
[01:10:52] <mtimmerm> anybody home?
[01:12:37] <cradek> hi matt
[01:13:00] <mtimmerm> g'day
[01:13:06] <cradek> how's it going?
[01:13:37] <jepler> hi matt
[01:13:41] <mtimmerm> Good. I was thinking y'all might be able to help me with something: I want to change the file system type on my root partition. Do you know a way to do that without messing up everything?
[01:13:48] <mtimmerm> G'day Jeff
[01:14:00] <cradek> from what to what?
[01:14:30] <jepler> short of doing a backup and restore of the partition, I don't know of a way. especially if the filesystems are different (e.g., ntfs to ext3).
[01:14:31] <mtimmerm> From ext2 to something that journals... It only takes a few kernel panics before you appreciate journalling
[01:14:42] <jepler> ext2 can easily be converted to ext3, I think
[01:15:08] <jepler> maybe these instructions will help? http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/ext2toext3.htm
[01:15:17] <mtimmerm> ooohhh. let me check...
[01:15:42] <cradek> along the lines of tune2fs -j
[01:15:54] <cradek> just found it in the man page
[01:16:03] <cradek> not sure if there are gotchas or not
[01:16:08] <mtimmerm> Oh, that rocks -- thanks much!
[01:16:15] <cradek> one gotcha is to make sure support is in the kernel
[01:16:25] <cradek> often the ext3 module is in the initrd
[01:17:05] <mtimmerm> I'm pretty sure Paul put it in, but I'll check
[01:17:17] <jepler> a few years ago, at least, an ext3 filesystem with a clean journal can be mounted by a kernel with only ext2 support
[01:17:52] <cradek> do you have backups or another way to mount the disk if it goes wrong?
[01:18:37] <mtimmerm> Not really, but everything can be regenerated.
[01:18:46] <mtimmerm> It's just a PITA
[01:18:59] <cradek> yep always is
[01:32:52] <cradek> wonder if that means he got it to work
[01:34:42] <mtimmerm> Well, that was easy. Thanks, guys
[01:34:54] <cradek> yay
[01:47:39] <SWPadnos> it's amazing how tasty Entenman's chocolate covered donuts are
[01:48:32] <jmkasunich> doooonuts
[01:48:47] <SWPadnos> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[01:49:12] <SWPadnos> sorry - that was all I could type before I licked all the chocolate off my fingers :)
[01:49:23] <jmkasunich> typing with your elbows?
[01:49:32] <SWPadnos> the other hand
[01:49:38] <SWPadnos> the milk glass hand
[01:49:43] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:50:22] <jmkasunich> we went out to dinner saturday night, got "triple chocolate cake" for dessert... just finished it off a little while ago
[01:50:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:55:11] <jepler> hm, that's no good. in this vmware machine, every keystroke is being echo'd to the console as "^@"
[01:55:26] <SWPadnos> character 0
[01:55:28] <jepler> yeah
[01:55:32] <SWPadnos> bummer
[01:56:31] <jepler> even pressing "capslock" or "shift" echos ^W
[01:56:34] <jepler> er, ^@
[01:56:36] <jepler> * jepler restarts
[01:56:58] <SWPadnos> what guest OS>
[01:57:00] <SWPadnos> ?
[01:57:32] <cradek> wonder what lloyd wilson is working on
[01:57:39] <cradek> he doesn't give us much to go on to help him...
[01:57:45] <SWPadnos> I was kind of wondering that myself
[01:57:45] <jmkasunich> whozat?
[01:57:54] <cradek> on the users list
[01:57:55] <jmkasunich> oh, the "adding code" guy
[01:58:01] <cradek> yeah
[01:58:24] <SWPadnos> is there a wiki page that tells the files you have to touch to get a new module to compile?
[01:58:45] <jepler> no, I don't think there is
[01:58:46] <SWPadnos> (within the make - not how to get it to work, of course ;) )
[01:58:46] <cradek> you're guessing a hal module?
[01:58:52] <SWPadnos> I think so
[01:58:55] <jmkasunich> yeah, can't tell whether he wants to add another kernel module, another user space prog, or just another source file linked to existing code
[01:58:57] <SWPadnos> could be userspace program as well though
[01:58:58] <cradek> I think it's just the makefile
[01:59:14] <jmkasunich> "just the makefile" is still non-trivial
[01:59:18] <jepler> the top-level makefile is where all the kernel hal modules are listed
[01:59:22] <cradek> yes, in a few places though, with kbuild and non-kbuild
[01:59:42] <jepler> obj-$(CONFIG_MODMATH) += modmath.o
[01:59:42] <jepler> modmath-objs := hal/components/modmath.o $(MATHSTUB)
[01:59:51] <mtimmerm> * mtimmerm is AWAY at 22:09:10 : I need a reason?
[01:59:51] <mtimmerm> mtimmerm is now known as mtimmerm_AWAY
[01:59:58] <jepler> ../rtlib/modmath.o: $(addprefix objects/rt,$(modmath-objs))
[02:00:07] <jmkasunich> I don't even begin ton understand the makefieles anymore, I just examine how some other module is done and copy it
[02:00:31] <jepler> the first declares the module for kbuild; the second gives the object files in it; the third declares it for non-kbuild
[02:00:31] <cradek> that's an excellent strategy
[02:00:42] <jepler> now go forth and write the wiki page on it
[02:00:56] <jepler> for userspace stuff, see Submakefile.skel
[02:01:05] <jmkasunich> if you'll hang around for 20 mins to review it, I'll do just that
[02:01:41] <jepler> OK
[02:01:45] <jepler> if not tonight then tomorrow
[02:01:59] <jepler> I always glance at the wiki changes between reading webcomics
[02:02:11] <jmkasunich> hmm, linuxcnc.org is taking a long time to come up
[02:02:29] <SWPadnos> indeed - hmmm
[02:02:35] <cradek> skunkworks sent an email saying it's down
[02:02:38] <cradek> but I didn't check anything yet
[02:02:49] <jmkasunich> pinging it also comes up empty
[02:02:54] <cradek> but you want the wiki anyway, which is on sf
[02:02:55] <SWPadnos> dinero is down
[02:03:24] <jmkasunich> I know I want the wiki, I was just gonna use SF to get there, I'm not sure I have the wiki bookmarked
[02:03:37] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[02:04:08] <jmkasunich> heh, I guess that doesn't need a bookmark
[02:04:13] <jmkasunich> just one or two working brain cells
[02:04:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:04:33] <jmkasunich> I got used to the long url when it was on robin's server
[02:05:11] <SWPadnos> as of about 15 minutes ago, they were trying to fix some "after-effects" of a problem caused by a switch went south on them (among other things)
[02:10:38] <jepler> SWPadnos: until I figure out you meant a network switch, it was quite funny that a problem with a single (pushbutton? toggle?) switch could lead to whole websites being down.
[02:10:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:11:00] <SWPadnos> I also had a grammatical mistake, which may not have helped
[02:13:04] <cradek> I forgot how bad interlaced screens are
[02:14:14] <jepler> cradek: why are you using interlaced?
[02:14:39] <cradek> I'm working on the 7? 9?" monitor that I might use on the lathe
[02:15:00] <jmkasunich> LCD?
[02:15:00] <cradek> 8"
[02:15:05] <cradek> no, a tube
[02:15:09] <jmkasunich> why?
[02:15:12] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, no, PCP
[02:15:38] <cradek> I have a stand that will hold the monitor and a small keyboard up off the desk
[02:16:00] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich has sworn off CRTs...
[02:16:01] <jepler> * jepler summarizes recent improvements to AXIS: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01153186355
[02:16:27] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, oh come on, you know you like a good back ache every now and then.
[02:16:37] <jepler> ops, and I typo'd it pretty badly
[02:16:46] <cradek> CRTs are fine if you don't have to carry them
[02:17:09] <jmkasunich> and if you don't mind sacrificing desk space to them
[02:17:11] <Jymmm> Heh, by 32" tv is like 120 # and no handles on it
[02:17:50] <cradek> jepler: support for ... is
[02:17:51] <jmkasunich> "you might be a programmer geek if your computer monitor is bigger than your biggest TV screen"
[02:18:08] <cradek> who uses TVs anymore?
[02:18:14] <cradek> jepler: (last line)
[02:18:29] <cradek> these are really excellent changes
[02:18:30] <jmkasunich> jepler: I'm curious.. what happesn with the "manual toolchange" component if you have Tnn many lines before the M6?
[02:18:32] <jepler> cradek: found it
[02:19:13] <cradek> it actually uses the hal pins doesn't it? it'll work right
[02:19:18] <SWPadnos> I don;'t think tool prep time will matter much with manual tool changes
[02:19:24] <jepler> jmkasunich: I don't know. hal_manualtoolchange with the example hal file just displays whatever number is put on the pin iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number
[02:19:42] <jepler> I never tested with them on different lines
[02:19:51] <jmkasunich> the tool prep request HAL pin goes active (and the new tool number comes out on a pin) as soon as the Tnn is seen, the tool change pin goes active when the M6 comes along
[02:20:16] <jmkasunich> I guess as long as you trigger on the tool change pin and ignore the tool prep pin it will be fine
[02:20:55] <jepler> linkpp hal_manualtoolchange.change iocontrol.0.tool-change
[02:20:55] <jepler> linkpp hal_manualtoolchange.changed iocontrol.0.tool-changed
[02:20:55] <jepler> linkpp hal_manualtoolchange.number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number
[02:21:03] <jmkasunich> perfect
[02:21:05] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, what if my computer monior doubles as a TV ?
[02:21:16] <jepler> jmkasunich: what I wondered was, how do I know when to stop asserting "changed"?
[02:21:19] <jmkasunich> the dialog pops up when "tool-change" goes true, right?
[02:21:24] <jepler> jmkasunich: right
[02:21:40] <jmkasunich> as soon as "tool-change" goes away, you can release "tool-changed"
[02:21:47] <jmkasunich> classic two wire handshake
[02:22:03] <jepler> want to read the last few lines of the python and tell me if it looks right?
[02:22:05] <jepler> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/scripts/hal_manualtoolchange.py?rev=1.1
[02:22:34] <jmkasunich> it would help if I could actually read python ;-/
[02:22:35] <jmkasunich> trying
[02:22:37] <jepler> if 'change' has become asserted but we weren't asserting h.changed, go through the change logic which sets .changed.
[02:22:49] <jepler> otherwise, if 'change' is not asserted, deassert 'changed'
[02:23:11] <jmkasunich> right
[02:23:18] <Jymmm> I need to use a 1/8" bit, but need to go into a 1/4" slot that's about 3/4" deep. Any suggestions?
[02:23:26] <A-L-P-H-4> wow... california's hot... 41C... where it's like 23C here.
[02:23:28] <jmkasunich> if change and not changed, do your thing and set changed
[02:23:33] <jmkasunich> if changed and not change, clear changed
[02:23:49] <cradek> Jymmm: use my slot subroutine, it's exactly what you need for that
[02:23:56] <cradek> Jymmm: it's in useful-subroutines.ngc in cvs
[02:23:57] <A-L-P-H-4> or... 30C right now
[02:24:28] <SWPadnos> only 28C here
[02:24:31] <SWPadnos> at 10:30 PM
[02:24:38] <Jymmm> cradek, Sorry, I mean in respect to having the clearnace and depth for the bit (it's a 1/4" shank)
[02:24:55] <jmkasunich> you need a bit with at least a 3/4" cutting length
[02:25:22] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, no other way (not being sarcastic)
[02:25:35] <cradek> I think we have no idea what you're talking about
[02:25:45] <jmkasunich> I think I do (but it makes no sense)
[02:25:45] <SWPadnos> seconded
[02:25:55] <cradek> ok jmk is one ahead of us
[02:26:09] <jmkasunich> are you trying to cut a 1/8" wide groove in the bottom of an existing 1/4" wide x 3/4" deep groove?
[02:26:16] <jmkasunich> using a tool with a 1/4" shank?
[02:26:30] <Jymmm> I have an upper slot thats .220 wide, then a lower slot that's .195 wide
[02:26:54] <A-L-P-H-4> I think I want a home weather station.
[02:26:54] <A-L-P-H-4> just for kicks.
[02:27:02] <jmkasunich> ok, so you have to cut both slots with something smaller than 1/4"
[02:27:03] <jepler> A-L-P-H-4: I've thought that too
[02:27:12] <jmkasunich> like 3/16 (0.188) or 1/8
[02:27:14] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, Yes. it's hard to find long reach 1/8" bits
[02:27:33] <jmkasunich> the total depth of both slots is 3/4"
[02:27:48] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:28:02] <Jymmm> correct (.695")
[02:28:36] <jmkasunich> you need a bit with a cutting edge at least 0.7 long then (or at least, with a 0.7" long section that is less than 0.195 diameter
[02:29:06] <Jymmm> The best I can find (w/o having one made) is .5"
[02:29:07] <jmkasunich> what are you cutting? wood?
[02:29:12] <Jymmm> plastic
[02:30:04] <cradek> * cradek giggles at the letter-writing campaign quip
[02:30:26] <jmkasunich> 27395A23
[02:30:26] <jmkasunich> Carbide Router Bit for Wood and Laminates Up-Cut, 3/16" Cut Dia, 3/4" Cut Length, 2-1/2" L O'all
[02:30:26] <jmkasunich> In stock at $17.95 Each
[02:30:52] <jmkasunich> mcmaster
[02:32:21] <Jymmm> pn or url ?
[02:32:33] <jmkasunich> thats the pn
[02:32:40] <jmkasunich> 27395A23
[02:33:07] <mtimmerm_AWAY> mtimmerm_AWAY is now known as mtimmerm
[02:33:28] <jmkasunich> if you can use 3/8 or 3/16" shanks, then you have more choices... there are eight 3/16 dia endmills with 3/4" long cutting edges
[02:34:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, ok cool. But if I had needed .120" slot what options are there? I can't be the only one ever to need a deep/narrow slot
[02:34:40] <Jymmm> or .130 as example
[02:35:28] <jmkasunich> they have 3/8 shank endmills with 3/4" long cutting edges in 1/8, 5/32, 11/64, and 3/16 dia
[02:36:06] <jmkasunich> oops, thats 3/16" shank
[02:36:33] <Jymmm> break often I'd suspect.
[02:36:38] <jmkasunich> in general tho, smart designers avoid narrow and deep slots
[02:36:42] <cradek> I need to make a video of this lathe - it is extremely cool
[02:37:19] <jmkasunich> if you _must_ have a narrow and deep slot, try to make it straight, and have non-critical ends... then you can use a slitting saw
[02:37:42] <jmkasunich> with a slitting saw you can make slots 0.030 or less wide and an inch deep (if you are carefull)
[02:37:58] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[02:39:21] <cradek> milling any slot that's deeper than about 2-3x the dia of the tool is always rough going
[02:40:17] <Jymmm> my biggest issue is clearnace from the shank itself, not so much the cutting edge itself.
[02:40:44] <Jymmm> -itself
[02:40:53] <jmkasunich> you can get 3/16" shank end mills with 3/16" diameter cutting edges less than 3/4" long
[02:41:43] <jmkasunich> wow, you can get a slitting saw 1" diameter, 3/8" hole, and 0.006" thick
[02:42:01] <jmkasunich> only $6.40
[02:42:18] <cradek> sounds like a circle of tinfoil
[02:42:23] <cradek> with teeth
[02:42:31] <jmkasunich> circle of HSS foil
[02:42:42] <Jymmm> surgical saw
[02:44:44] <jmkasunich> heh, I forgot I had these... 25mm dia x 0.2mm thick (0.008")
[02:45:21] <jmkasunich> and 50mm dia x 0.3mm
[02:46:34] <jmkasunich> I don't think I've ever used those.. but I have used the 3" x 1/32"
[02:58:11] <jmkasunich> anybody remember the wiki syntax for preformatted text? (ie. use monospace font, don't screw with whitespace and linebreaks)
[02:58:28] <cradek> I think you can just use <pre> like in html
[02:58:53] <cradek> but I always dig around for another page and look at its source
[02:59:12] <jmkasunich> yeah, thats what I'm doing
[02:59:41] <jmkasunich> ah, you indent it with one space
[03:00:41] <jmkasunich> stupid thing thinks "src/Makefile" is a link to another wiki page, puts a question mark after it
[03:00:58] <cradek> I think you can undo that ... somehow
[03:01:10] <cradek> I hate wikis even though they're ok for some stuff
[03:01:23] <jmkasunich> <nowiki>foo</nowiki>
[03:02:23] <cradek> my thread gauge has 11.5 TPI, wtf
[03:02:32] <cradek> that's worse than Jumm's nut
[03:02:36] <cradek> y
[03:02:58] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: don't throw a fit if the splash/demo file doesn't exist
[03:03:29] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?MakefileDeMystified
[03:03:38] <cradek> heh
[03:03:39] <jmkasunich> the title is a bit ambitious...
[03:03:55] <jmkasunich> oops, found a mistake already
[03:03:58] <jmkasunich> don't look!
[03:04:16] <jmkasunich> ok, now you can look
[03:04:28] <cradek> 'useful'
[03:04:49] <jmkasunich> nitpicker
[03:05:26] <jmkasunich> fixed
[03:05:32] <cradek> 'substitute'
[03:05:47] <cradek> it looks great
[03:06:16] <cradek> what's the difference between a component and a user_comp?
[03:06:25] <jmkasunich> user_comp is a user space program
[03:06:34] <jmkasunich> not a kernel module
[03:06:35] <cradek> ah
[03:06:41] <cradek> I didn't make that connection for some reason
[03:06:54] <cradek> so user means userspace
[03:07:03] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:07:04] <cradek> I thought it meant the user (person)
[03:07:13] <jmkasunich> naming leaves a bit to be desired
[03:07:23] <cradek> as in that directory being the "human interface" stuff
[03:07:23] <jmkasunich> (and CVS makes fixing it not easy)
[03:07:32] <cradek> right
[03:07:43] <cradek> no problem though, I get it now
[03:07:57] <jmkasunich> yeah, but if it confused you, it will confuse others
[03:08:13] <cradek> assuming I'm average or smarter, yes
[03:08:38] <cradek> I forget what jepler was adding, but we couldn't figure out which was the right directory
[03:08:59] <cradek> although it's obvious now that you say how it works
[03:09:02] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[03:11:11] <cradek> are you going to reply to lloyd now? the wikipage looks great to me
[03:11:16] <cradek> (assuming that's what he's asking)
[03:11:44] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:11:49] <cradek> I'm going to bed a half hour ago - goodnight
[03:11:51] <jmkasunich> I just realized one additional step
[03:11:56] <cradek> oh?
[03:11:59] <jmkasunich> gotta add it to the module helper whitelist
[03:12:13] <cradek> not sure that's still true
[03:12:29] <jmkasunich> it whitelists a directory?
[03:12:47] <cradek> yes I think so
[03:12:52] <cradek> better check the source
[03:13:18] <cradek> or the module is in the directory /home/chris/emc2.head/rtlib/
[03:13:23] <cradek> ^^ yes
[03:13:31] <jmkasunich> cool
[03:14:21] <cradek> if he wants to add to 2.0.1 it's going to be different
[03:14:50] <cradek> if so he can choose to do that the cvs way or the debian way
[03:15:20] <jmkasunich> I'm assuming he's working with a cvs checkout
[03:15:47] <jmkasunich> I should add that assumption to the wiki page
[03:16:22] <cradek> I can sure see someone wanting to do it the debian way too (make new packages with a customization or added module)
[03:16:31] <jmkasunich> you get to write that part
[03:16:37] <cradek> only if someone asks for it
[03:16:47] <cradek> actually there are probably lots of resources for that already
[03:16:56] <jmkasunich> "the debian way" involves doing it the CVS way first, right? then make the packages?
[03:17:04] <cradek> our packages are built the 100% standard and open way
[03:17:05] <cradek> no
[03:17:07] <cradek> apt-get source emc2
[03:17:10] <cradek> cd emc2-whatever
[03:17:12] <cradek> customize
[03:17:20] <jmkasunich> oh, I see
[03:17:20] <cradek> dch -i
[03:17:26] <cradek> (make new changelog entry)
[03:17:29] <cradek> dpkg-buildpackage
[03:17:42] <cradek> and pow, you have new packages
[03:18:14] <jmkasunich> there is no ordinary configure/build step?
[03:18:22] <cradek> buildpackage does it for you
[03:18:30] <jmkasunich> and you can't test by run-in-place, you have to install the new package to test?
[03:18:35] <cradek> yes
[03:18:45] <jmkasunich> doesn't seem like the path I'd encourage
[03:18:57] <cradek> well if your goal is to make a package, that's what you do
[03:19:06] <cradek> that's not usually what you do for the devel work itself
[03:19:29] <jmkasunich> I'd prefer people to submit their changes to us (or get developer status and commit them)
[03:19:41] <cradek> of course
[03:20:01] <cradek> like I said, I'll write that if someone asks for it (or, find a nice link that already explains it)
[03:20:13] <jmkasunich> if they want to use it only for themselves, I don't care what they do, but if they're gonna distribute, oddball packages floating around are just asking for trouble
[03:21:07] <cradek> you may not like it, but it's important to me that it works like other debian packages
[03:21:38] <cradek> one of the things people must be able to do is change it and repackage
[03:21:50] <jmkasunich> not arguing about that at all
[03:21:58] <cradek> ok I understand, not trying to pick a fight
[03:22:22] <cradek> I'm sensitive about that since not everyone seems to understand it's a gpl requirement :-/
[03:23:11] <cradek> ok bedtime for me, goodnight all
[03:23:46] <cradek> jmkasunich: thanks for finding the QCTP for me, I like it
[03:23:59] <cradek> (videos coming soon!)
[03:24:15] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[03:24:19] <jmkasunich> can't wait for the vid
[03:34:57] <jmkasunich> bedtime for me too...
[05:28:25] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[05:28:25] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[05:35:48] <Chupa> Hello
[05:36:36] <A-L-P-H-4> hi
[05:36:41] <A-L-P-H-4> A-L-P-H-4 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[05:38:35] <Chupa> so i guess using Ubuntu is a must to use emc huh
[05:39:15] <A-L-P-H-A> no, but it's the easiest sol'n... as it's packaged that way... not dapper drake yet htough.. just breezy
[05:39:58] <Chupa> im just having a hard time getting the ubuntu install to just work
[05:40:12] <A-L-P-H-A> shouldn't... works on standard hardware pretty easily.
[05:40:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I've only had video card issues.
[05:40:27] <Chupa> ive tried it in 4 diffrent boxes and the same thine happens, so i reburned the disc and same thing happened
[05:40:39] <Chupa> so i asked a friend about it and he said he had the same problem
[13:59:28] <rayh> logger_aj, bookmark
[13:59:28] <rayh> See
[14:00:57] <cradek> morning ray
[14:02:16] <cradek> wow, what an astounding lack of understanding from joshuakerns76 on the users list
[14:02:35] <SWPadnos> I was just about to - erm - suggest that he's incorrect
[14:02:51] <SWPadnos> and point him at some light reading
[14:03:30] <cradek> a great idea
[14:03:56] <SWPadnos> I got sidetracked by a bunch of forum posts I have open in Mozilla :)
[14:04:22] <cradek> it's probably better to correct the discussion sooner than later
[14:05:15] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks for the info on linuxcnc.org
[14:05:37] <cradek> sure, looks like it's fixed today
[14:05:39] <rayh> Hi Chris. I was off reading log.
[14:05:45] <cradek> hi ray
[14:06:05] <skunkworks> yep
[14:06:09] <cradek> this morning when I was supposed to be getting out of bed I figured out how to do DTG, it's not as hard as I thought
[14:06:57] <rayh> Great. I'm amazed at how fast things are developing these days.
[14:06:59] <cradek> the way I have in mind, it will always be in "external" (ini file) units though even if the program is in the other units
[14:07:14] <SWPadnos> DTG?
[14:07:22] <cradek> so I'm not too happy with the idea, but it'd be about 80% right
[14:07:25] <SWPadnos> (I seem to be way behind in acronym complieance these days)
[14:07:33] <cradek> "distance to go" (how far until the end of this move)
[14:07:35] <SWPadnos> ah
[14:07:50] <cradek> ray says people will want that on lathes
[14:08:36] <cradek> (but I'll do it for mills too)
[14:09:11] <SWPadnos> reagrding the josh email - one thing to note is that the source code is available, it's just not in a highly publicized location
[14:09:24] <SWPadnos> or is it missing stuff?
[14:09:30] <SWPadnos> (I haven't checked)
[14:09:36] <anonimasu> whare can I read this post?
[14:09:36] <cradek> it's missing stuff
[14:09:49] <SWPadnos> on the emc users list
[14:10:05] <cradek> specifically the scripts controlling compile/packaging
[14:10:19] <SWPadnos> ok, and you don't get those with apt-get source emc2?
[14:10:23] <cradek> those are also missing in bdi4emc packages
[14:10:41] <SWPadnos> (or whatever the correct apt command would be)
[14:10:44] <cradek> no, they aren't in the files you get
[14:11:32] <cradek> maybe you should get the exact details from jepler, he studied this more
[14:11:59] <cradek> I think the "source" he provides for emc2 is exactly our tar file, with none of his changes
[14:12:28] <SWPadnos> right. I'm not sure aI want to go that far into the details in my email - just a not-quite-polite reminder to actually read the GPL before posting such tripe
[14:13:09] <cradek> yeah a pointer to gpl2 and "find clue here:" is maybe all that's required
[14:13:40] <rayh> "look for clue starting here?"
[14:14:04] <rayh> we shouldn't guarantee that he will "find" it.
[14:14:12] <SWPadnos> something like that
[14:14:17] <cradek> rayh: you're assuming it will be a multi-step process?
[14:14:21] <cradek> heh
[14:16:04] <SWPadnos> I/m assuming that this is a correct link: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
[14:17:05] <skunkworks> I hate the delay that the source forge online mail viewer has.
[14:17:11] <skunkworks> hate is a strong word
[14:17:29] <skunkworks> annoyed
[14:17:58] <rayh> Mindset often requires several steps to fix.
[14:18:17] <fenn> step 1) steal underpants..
[14:20:02] <rayh> step 2) ask folk to secure nomex suits.
[14:21:04] <SWPadnos> step 3) Profit!
[14:21:28] <rayh> prophet?
[14:22:05] <SWPadnos> damn - maybe that's been my problem. I've been using the wrong version of profit all these years
[14:22:46] <rayh> Humm. Might be a common problem.
[14:25:32] <jepler> SWPadnos: paul's broken source upload includes a "orig.tar.gz" but omits the diff.gz and the .dsc, so he's withheld his changes and also made it play badly with "apt-get source"
[14:25:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:26:02] <SWPadnos> hopefully I haven't said anything incorrect in my reply
[14:26:20] <anonimasu> hm, is paul being the problem again?
[14:26:44] <SWPadnos> still, I think (not a new problem, merely a continuation of an old one)
[14:38:57] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtapi_math.h: pow prototype
[14:54:11] <cradek> hahaha http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/53079
[14:54:21] <cradek> I know this is off topic, sorry.
[14:57:51] <cradek> rayh: is DTG typically used while going very slowly or in feedhold?
[14:58:09] <cradek> rayh: I ask because I'm not sure what it should display during a blend
[14:59:44] <rayh> Ah. DTG is usually very slow and used during a cut but can be used throughout an approach to a cut.
[15:00:44] <cradek> ok, when running at speed, you often don't get right up to corners, so it won't go to zero
[15:00:54] <cradek> but it'll be changing so fast it won't matter
[15:01:05] <cradek> when going slow, you do get right up to the corners
[15:01:58] <rayh> Sure. My guess is that with a lathe turn the operator would use exact anyway.
[15:31:56] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: distance-to-go display
[15:32:12] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/motion.h: distance-to-go display
[15:32:13] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.hh: distance-to-go display
[15:32:13] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/taskintf.cc: distance-to-go display
[15:32:49] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: distance-to-go display
[15:32:49] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: distance-to-go display
[15:32:50] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: distance-to-go display
[15:35:01] <cradek> jepler: can you help with the presentation
[15:35:12] <cradek> I don't see why it doesn't line up with the other things
[15:35:29] <cradek> also, the rectangle under the axis readouts is not showing up anymore
[15:35:37] <jepler> I'll look at both
[15:35:46] <jepler> can you figure out if the rectangle went away when I made the cone transparent?
[15:35:53] <cradek> it must have
[15:35:56] <cradek> I can't have borken that
[15:37:45] <jepler> that's what I think too
[15:38:20] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/dtg.png
[15:38:48] <jepler> you probably missed the hack to make 'Vel' line up
[15:39:30] <cradek> yeah I didn't notice that
[15:40:57] <jepler> "install2" is quite a bit slower than my laptop
[15:41:22] <jepler> I guess I'm competing with you running emc too
[15:41:31] <cradek> yeah
[15:41:38] <cradek> hey, I even got arcs right
[15:41:41] <cradek> wonders never cease
[15:42:11] <cradek> and mm
[15:42:18] <cradek> holy cow
[15:42:22] <SWPadnos> you're supposed to say "I meant to do that"
[15:42:45] <cradek> nobody would believe me
[15:42:55] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - forgot about that
[15:52:35] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: fix DTG display, rectangle under readout
[15:52:45] <cradek> yay thanks
[15:53:35] <cradek> glVertex3f(pixel_width+24, ypos - 8 - coordinate_linespace*len(positions), 1)
[15:53:42] <cradek> wow, this code sucks doesn't it
[15:53:59] <jepler> a lot of the code in axis sucks
[15:54:24] <cradek> I'm sorry you feel that way - I think only that one line sucks
[15:54:31] <jepler> do you want me to find some others?
[15:54:35] <cradek> no
[15:55:32] <cradek> SWPadnos: haha your clue pointer did NOT work
[15:55:41] <jepler> I don't know if you followed it from the diff, but the rectangle disappeared because I turned on GL_CULL_FACE and I guess the quad was drawn backwards before now
[15:56:23] <cradek> oh, no I had no idea
[15:56:37] <cradek> it's natural but wrong to draw stuff clockwise
[15:56:57] <SWPadnos> apparently not
[15:57:38] <cradek> SWPadnos: and David doesn't understand we're talking about an emc2 release, not a bdi release
[15:57:58] <SWPadnos> right
[15:58:13] <cradek> I'm so going to keep out of this one.
[15:58:28] <cradek> * cradek plugs his ears and says LALALALALALA
[17:28:20] <Jymmm> Mornin Gents, gonna be a hot one today!
[21:00:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 'lo
[21:00:47] <jepler> hi Lerneaen_Hydra
[21:00:55] <jepler> did you see that we already implemented all the things you asked for yesterday?
[21:00:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what?
[21:01:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> can it be true?
[21:01:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> where would I see that?
[21:01:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> head changelist?
[21:01:16] <jepler> DTG and expressions in "touch off"
[21:01:27] <jepler> oh, and 1% increments for FO
[21:01:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ooh!
[21:01:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice!
[21:01:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> wasn't DTG a PITA to code?
[21:02:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and expressions in touch off too?
[21:03:44] <jepler> that's what we said..
[21:03:50] <jepler> but both of them turned out to be doable
[21:04:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok, sounds nice
[21:05:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> was there large modification or was it an obscure smart change?
[21:05:39] <cradek> DTG wasn't too hard once I thought about it the right way
[21:05:39] <jepler> I don't know about DTG, but supporting expressions amounted to ~50 lines of code
[21:05:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: 50 lines?
[21:06:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: that much?
[21:06:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: oh, ok, so no major changes then?
[21:07:16] <cradek> I'll withhold comment until you try it and tell me if you find ways it doesn't work right
[21:07:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok. good idea
[21:07:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I won't be able to test it for a while though
[21:07:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I
[21:07:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> gah
[21:08:04] <cradek> it'll still be there when you are ready
[21:08:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm going to go on a shorter vacation for a week or so
[21:08:14] <cradek> that sounds nice
[21:08:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no access to net or lathe
[21:08:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> indeed
[21:10:31] <cradek> goodnight, I'm away for the evening
[21:10:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[21:10:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bye
[21:10:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> see you later
[21:10:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> a week or so
[21:12:22] <jepler> see you!
[21:22:14] <les_w> hey jeff....
[21:23:28] <les_w> just so you know paul is in the high sierra being a mountain man or something.....he vanishes into the mountains without computers or anything for a month or two....
[21:27:33] <jepler> I see
[21:36:59] <Jymmm> lol @ les but but but deliverance, 3 miles from you, mountains, oh nm!
[21:46:39] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders why he just did something crazy
[21:46:53] <robin_sz> hey les_w ,
[21:47:04] <robin_sz> did you buy that plane I sent you the advert for?
[22:17:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> g'night
[22:17:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'll be back in a week or so
[23:55:01] <skunkworks> the secret to flying is throwing your self to the ground - and missing.
[23:58:33] <Rugludallur> skunkworks: the best way is if someone distracts you while you are falling
[23:59:09] <skunkworks> boy it has been a long time since I read the books