#emc | Logs for 2006-07-17

[00:01:39] <cradek> I've skipped ahead and finished my file - would you like to just download it?
[00:01:53] <cradek> argh
[00:08:53] <jimfleig> hi cradek, my keyboard locked up and I had to shut down my system
[00:09:01] <cradek> wow
[00:09:17] <cradek> ok
[00:09:24] <jimfleig> I'm getting the hal file open again
[00:09:25] <cradek> I've finished my file - would you like to just download it? then you'll be done.
[00:09:33] <jimfleig> sure
[00:09:44] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/stepper_xyza.hal
[00:11:01] <jimfleig> I'm linking to the file now
[00:11:34] <jimfleig> ok, is this a simple copy and paste?
[00:11:35] <cradek> jepler: I'm not getting any transparency on my tool
[00:11:47] <cradek> jimfleig: yeah just copy over yours with mine
[00:12:58] <jimfleig> done
[00:13:03] <cradek> ok start up emc
[00:13:25] <cradek> you'll see that you can choose your new configuration at the top
[00:14:35] <jimfleig> Ok, there it is.
[00:14:39] <jimfleig> thank you
[00:14:44] <cradek> does it run?
[00:15:32] <jimfleig> yes
[00:15:44] <cradek> if you do something like G0x0y0z0a90b90 and you don't get a following error, you're all set
[00:15:59] <cradek> err g0x1y1z1a90b90
[00:16:07] <cradek> just to move all 5
[00:16:27] <jimfleig> will following the same process with tkemc eliminate the joint errors?
[00:16:45] <cradek> if you want tkemc gui, you can just set that in the ini file
[00:17:03] <cradek> look around line 36
[00:17:05] <jimfleig> in the inch.ini
[00:17:08] <cradek> it says DISPLAY=axis
[00:17:12] <cradek> you want DISPLAY=tkemc
[00:17:16] <cradek> yes in inch.ini
[00:19:14] <jimfleig> it is working well in the tkemc gui, thank you
[00:19:18] <cradek> welcome
[00:19:37] <cradek> if you want to run real hardware with this, you'll have to do one more thing: hook up the output of the step generators to some parallel port pins
[00:19:46] <cradek> but if you're just simulating, it doesn't matter
[00:20:00] <jimfleig> the first machine will probably be servos
[00:20:15] <cradek> ok, so this is just for testing
[00:20:36] <jimfleig> correct, I just need to be able to show it works on a screen to a customer
[00:20:44] <cradek> ok, this happens to be a stepper configuration, but it doesn't matter for that
[00:20:53] <jimfleig> correct
[00:21:15] <jimfleig> I have begun reading the manual but still have much to learn
[00:21:37] <cradek> a 5 axis servo machine is quite an undertaking for a first project with emc
[00:21:46] <jimfleig> I know the machines inside and out. I am a CNC Field Service Engineer, 15 years.
[00:21:53] <cradek> are A and B stacked rotary tables?
[00:22:24] <jimfleig> many of my field service lessons are trial by fire first time experiences
[00:22:27] <jimfleig> no
[00:22:58] <jimfleig> the A is a rotary table on the X axis table rotating around the X
[00:23:46] <jimfleig> the B is a rotation of the spindle around the Y axis (+ and - 90 degrees from top dead center or 12 o'clock)
[00:23:58] <cradek> nifty
[00:24:10] <jimfleig> the customer makes turbines
[00:24:18] <cradek> will you do coordinated/simultaneous moves with all the axes, or do you just use A/B for indexing?
[00:24:22] <tomp> hole drill? edm?
[00:24:55] <jimfleig> all five axes have to move simultaneously to cut the curve properly on the turbine blade
[00:25:00] <cradek> ok I see
[00:25:05] <jimfleig> 5 axes mill
[00:25:06] <cradek> emc is certainly up to that task
[00:25:36] <cradek> you should carefully read the feed rate (F word) documentation in the ngc manual
[00:26:05] <cradek> because feed goes up as radius goes up
[00:26:10] <cradek> just a heads-up
[00:26:29] <cradek> I mean "apparent feed"
[00:26:36] <cradek> goes up
[00:26:47] <tomp> can this use standard kinematics?
[00:27:00] <cradek> yes certainly
[00:27:14] <cradek> but the gcode programmer has to understand the feeds and program accordingly
[00:27:18] <jimfleig> for a given feedrate the movement at the outer edge will be faster than the movement at the center
[00:27:25] <cradek> exactly
[00:28:00] <cradek> so if you program g0x0z0; g1x10a180 you'll get the spiral you want but the apparent feed goes up throughout the cut
[00:28:19] <jimfleig> I think this will be done in the CAM system but I will be careful to check with the customer
[00:28:28] <cradek> ok
[00:28:49] <jimfleig> thanks for the heads up, so many details .....
[00:29:01] <cradek> welcome
[00:29:07] <tomp> theres a difference if the rotaries are stacked or not. is that handled by kins or post processor ( or other ) ?
[00:29:38] <cradek> what emc does by default with trivkins is exactly what the ngc spec says
[00:30:04] <cradek> so a lot depends on what the guy's cam can do
[00:31:15] <jimfleig> is there a text file compare utility so that an original file can be saved, a copy of the file edited, and the changes viewed when compared?
[00:31:54] <tomp> does trivkins just interpolate distances & leave the joint relations up to the gcode preparation (jimfleig: use diff )
[00:33:05] <jimfleig> example: sudo diff (path to file 1) (path to file 2)
[00:33:15] <cradek> tomp: for combined linear/rotary moves, the F word controls the feed in the linear axes, and the rotaries move in order to start and end together
[00:33:20] <cradek> jimfleig: don't use sudo for that
[00:33:55] <jimfleig> ok, dropping the sudo is the rest of the example correct?
[00:34:00] <cradek> yes
[00:34:03] <cradek> diff oldfile newfile
[00:34:13] <cradek> actually I like to use diff -u oldfile newfile
[00:34:27] <jimfleig> what does the -u do?
[00:34:33] <cradek> I think the output is easier to read
[00:34:37] <cradek> the output can be in several formats
[00:34:45] <cradek> try it
[00:34:55] <cradek> the - means the line is removed, the + means it's added
[00:35:10] <cradek> and around each change it shows a little context so you can find your place
[00:35:18] <jimfleig> I'll try it with the files that were just edited
[00:35:31] <tomp> redirect with diff -u file1 file2 >filediff.txt so you get the copy you wanted of the diffs
[00:36:12] <tomp> uh -u might not make sense with file output...
[00:36:26] <cradek> sure it does
[00:36:34] <tomp> i dont use it so didnt know
[00:36:43] <jimfleig> is there a manual to download or a book I can buy that is easy to read for a beginner with these codes listed?
[00:37:18] <cradek> I imagine there are a lot of books about learning to use Linux
[00:37:43] <cradek> also lots of help online
[00:38:37] <jimfleig> thank you for your help, if I can be of any help on the machine side - please ask (email jim@cncservices.ws)
[00:38:49] <cradek> ok great
[00:38:51] <cradek> you're welcome
[00:38:55] <tomp> tomp grabs linux for dummies... it doesnt have -u switch for diff , so beware of buying books, use libraries
[00:39:37] <cradek> good advice
[00:40:26] <jimfleig> how does one exit properly? select name and Kick oneself off?
[00:40:39] <cradek> jimfleig: what state are you guys in?
[00:40:41] <tomp> man diff has -u, now where do i foind out what unified lines of text means
[00:40:49] <jimfleig> NY
[00:40:51] <tomp> exit emc?
[00:40:51] <cradek> just close the window I guess
[00:41:05] <tomp> slash part
[00:41:18] <cradek> I was going to ask for help finding some big stuff, but you're a bit far away from me in NE
[00:41:36] <jmkasunich> cradek: what kind of big stuff?
[00:41:56] <cradek> I still think I want a full-size milling machine conversion project
[00:42:05] <jimfleig> ok, thanks again, have a good night or whatever time of the day it is for you wherever in the world you are
[00:42:11] <tomp> type slash followed by part to exit this irc session
[00:42:11] <cradek> I bet they're sitting around unwanted in all sorts of shops
[00:42:23] <cradek> you're welcome jim
[00:42:26] <jmkasunich> how full sized? bport?
[00:42:34] <jimfleig> please ask, through my website I get information on mills from all over
[00:42:47] <cradek> yeah, or maybe not quite as big
[00:44:07] <cradek> his sounds like an interesting project
[00:44:28] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:44:37] <jmkasunich> I sure hope he's a fast learner
[00:45:30] <jmkasunich> btw, thanks for taking over when I had to leave
[00:45:31] <cradek> true it sure does sound complex
[00:45:37] <cradek> no problem
[00:45:50] <cradek> not sure I tackled it the easiest way, but it worked out
[00:46:37] <jmkasunich> remember one day you found a bport with what looked like another table on the top?
[00:46:44] <cradek> yes
[00:46:45] <jmkasunich> here's how they use it:
[00:46:46] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4483385&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[00:47:06] <cradek> slick
[00:47:31] <cradek> that looks like a short machine
[00:47:38] <jmkasunich> short?
[00:47:38] <tomp> a moog hydrapoint (tracer)
[00:48:03] <cradek> I mean it's not 8' tall
[00:48:03] <jmkasunich> it says bridgeport, not moog
[00:48:12] <jmkasunich> or is moog the maker of the tracing stuff?
[00:48:21] <tomp> moog made the generic device, added to many machines, copies whatever is under the tracer
[00:48:25] <cradek> it's hydraulic? wild
[00:48:34] <tomp> hydraulic, no cnc a-tall
[00:49:33] <tomp> hydraulic probing, dc servo cutting
[00:50:06] <tomp> the 'other' table allows you to have differnt size parts and distances between sense & cut heads
[00:50:33] <jmkasunich> sharp CNC vertical, 10x42, "only" $3999
[00:51:02] <jmkasunich> and another tracer...
[00:51:27] <tomp> so, can 'torch height control' do the tracing?
[00:51:34] <cradek> perfect if I only had $3999
[00:51:43] <jmkasunich> prices seem very high
[00:51:47] <cradek> yeah
[00:52:14] <jmkasunich> I think I recall reading somewhere that demand from China (not neccessarily for machines, sometimes just for scrap iron) is driving up prices
[00:52:26] <les_w> it sure is
[00:52:34] <cradek> huh
[00:52:35] <les_w> oil. steel, etc
[00:52:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4490528&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=1
[00:52:45] <jmkasunich> bport for $699
[00:52:47] <tomp> yeah, there's scout from SHanghai all over Detroit & Chicago, grabbing old iron
[00:53:16] <jimfleig> hello again, it seems I inadvertantly changed my screen display so that I cannot see the names on the right hand side
[00:53:27] <jmkasunich> it has some real weird stuff attached, probalby driving the price down... hard to say whether the crap would come off and leave a usable machine, or if they took out and threw away vital parts when the put the crap on
[00:53:49] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: you mean on the IRC program?
[00:53:58] <jimfleig> yes
[00:54:03] <jmkasunich> which one are you using, X-Chat? (it will say so on the top bar)
[00:54:09] <jimfleig> yes
[00:55:03] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure how to bring it back because I never lost it.. but try Settings->Preferences->User-List
[00:58:14] <jmkasunich> cradek: here's a mill for you: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=4483558&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=1
[00:58:15] <jimfleig> oh well, a restart is needed to have changes take effect, I'll wait till tomorrow to sort this one out
[00:58:24] <jmkasunich> ?
[00:58:33] <jimfleig> I tried the diff oldfile newfile and got errors
[00:59:08] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, A lil small for practical use dont ya think?
[00:59:16] <jmkasunich> yeah...
[00:59:39] <jimfleig> this is what appears: diff: /home/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: No such file or directory
[01:00:31] <jmkasunich> looks like the file is missing...
[01:01:09] <jmkasunich> it should probably be "/home/jimfleig/emc2/configs....
[01:01:33] <tomp> try ls /home/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini to see if it exists
[01:01:33] <jmkasunich> (or home/<whatever-your-username-is>/emc2.....
[01:02:04] <jmkasunich> tomp: it shouldn't be (and probably isn't) in /home
[01:02:47] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: try these commands to make sure you haven't gotten off into some odd directory:
[01:02:49] <jmkasunich> cd ~
[01:02:52] <jmkasunich> pwd
[01:03:12] <jmkasunich> paste the result of the "pwd" command here
[01:03:24] <jmkasunich> (it should be a single line, starting with "/home" )
[01:03:47] <jimfleig> /home/jimfleig
[01:03:56] <jmkasunich> ok.. that is your home directory
[01:04:07] <jmkasunich> pretty much everything you do should be in or below that directory
[01:04:23] <jmkasunich> if you do "ls", you should see "emc2" among the things listed
[01:04:52] <jimfleig> I looked up the files with the file browser and then typed in the path that was displayed in the file browser
[01:05:39] <jmkasunich> heh, thats the problem
[01:05:48] <jmkasunich> the file browser uses "home" to refer to your home directory
[01:06:08] <jmkasunich> but the full name of your home directory isn't "/home", its "/home/jimflieg"
[01:06:08] <jimfleig> there is no jimfleig under home in the file browser
[01:06:21] <jimfleig> computers are so much fun
[01:06:32] <tomp> right the browser is trying to be clever at your expense
[01:06:34] <jmkasunich> the file browser is lying to you - its a bad habit of GUIs
[01:06:47] <jmkasunich> they try to make things "simpler" by hiding the facts from you
[01:06:54] <jimfleig> we'll try again
[01:06:55] <jmkasunich> heres a trick tho...
[01:07:05] <jmkasunich> when the browser says "home", use "~"
[01:07:15] <jmkasunich> "~" means "my personal home directory"
[01:07:35] <jmkasunich> so ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/inch.ini should work
[01:07:41] <jimfleig> use "~" within the file browser?
[01:07:51] <jmkasunich> no, on the command line
[01:08:22] <tomp> so try ls ~/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini
[01:08:38] <jmkasunich> for instance the diff command could be "diff ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/inch.ini ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza/old.ini"
[01:08:58] <jimfleig> I just noticed on the top bar of the browser that jimfleig is listed when home is selected
[01:09:17] <jimfleig> I will try "~" in terminal
[01:09:22] <jmkasunich> for the diff, you can save a crapload of typing by changing to the directory you want first
[01:09:36] <jmkasunich> cd ~ (takes you to your home dir)
[01:09:45] <jmkasunich> cd emc2 (takes you to the emc2 subdir)
[01:09:56] <jmkasunich> cd configs (takes you to the configs subdir)
[01:10:15] <jmkasunich> cd stepper_xyza (takes you to the dir with your specific config in it
[01:10:26] <jmkasunich> diff inch.ini old_inch.ini (does the diff)
[01:10:59] <jmkasunich> you can also condense all those cd commands into one: "cd ~/emc2/configs/stepper_xyza"
[01:11:42] <jimfleig> I thought I had left DOS type commands far behind me, better relearn some of this stuff
[01:12:09] <tomp> midnight commander doesnt lie to you
[01:12:46] <tomp> looks like norton commander
[01:12:50] <jmkasunich> if you remember DOS, you are at a bit of an advantage compared to the kids who have been weaned on windows
[01:13:53] <jmkasunich> I wonder if there is a GUI version of diff
[01:14:23] <jmkasunich> many things _can_ be done the GUI way, but most of us are used to the command line way, and don't even necessarily know the other way
[01:15:06] <tomp> http://kdiff3.sourceforge.net/
[01:15:19] <tomp> but i use diff
[01:15:30] <jmkasunich> tomp: if it isn't either already installed on his system, or available as a package, I don't want to go there
[01:15:38] <tomp> k
[01:16:16] <asdfq-shop> jmk: kdiff
[01:16:36] <asdfq-shop> I remember there being a couple from my Mandrake days
[01:17:13] <jmkasunich> hmm, kdiff is available as an ubuntu package
[01:17:38] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: would you like to try out a GUI based diff? (I think its GUI... maybe I should install it and see first)
[01:18:55] <jmkasunich> I guess not
[01:19:40] <asdfq-shop> I guess the K and Qt dependencies scared him off :P
[01:19:56] <jmkasunich> I don't think he'd know a dependency if it landed on his head
[01:20:10] <jmkasunich> seems like a total linux newbie (which is fine)
[01:20:26] <tomp> i cant 'sudo apt-get update' with Ubuntu 6.06 apt files, i get 'not a gzip' from debian.security, anyone else?
[01:20:42] <jmkasunich> still running breezy, can't help
[01:21:31] <jmkasunich> hmm, kdiff isn't bad
[01:23:44] <jmkasunich> C question: is "foo = bar << -3;" legal? seems it should do the same as "foo = bar >> 3;"
[01:24:09] <jmkasunich> (my copie of K&R is buried somewhere in this mess I call a desk)
[01:24:53] <jmkasunich> found it....
[01:25:08] <jmkasunich> "the result is undefined if the right operand is negative"
[01:25:12] <tomp> even if legal , consider your karma & the poor guy working on your code
[01:25:35] <jmkasunich> well, I wasn't going to code a negative constant
[01:25:49] <jmkasunich> I have a variable that maybe small positive, zero, or small negative
[01:26:05] <jmkasunich> I guess I have to code a messy branch instead
[01:26:20] <tomp> use a switch?
[01:26:28] <tomp> case = -1
[01:26:30] <jmkasunich> just as messy
[01:26:45] <asdfq-shop> Make a prayer to St. Vidicon of Cathode
[01:26:45] <jimfleig> thank you for the help with diff, I moved files to the same directory and it worked well
[01:26:54] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:27:04] <jmkasunich> I found out that there is a graphical diff tool
[01:27:15] <jmkasunich> if you are interested I can walk you thru installing it
[01:27:43] <jimfleig> twice now my keyboard has locked up when I have the IRC open and I execute a terminal command
[01:27:50] <jimfleig> any ideas?
[01:27:58] <jmkasunich> no, thats really screwy
[01:28:18] <jimfleig> it is an old keyboard, a Dell, I'll probably try just replacing it tomorrow
[01:28:37] <jmkasunich> how do you know it locked up?
[01:29:03] <jimfleig> the mouse still works but I can't type any characters in any programs
[01:29:12] <stiles> did you launch IRC from the terminal you are trying to use?
[01:29:37] <jimfleig> I am so green I do not understand the question
[01:29:46] <jimfleig> no
[01:29:59] <asdfq-shop> Desktop focus?
[01:30:10] <jmkasunich> how did you start the IRC program? from the "applications" menu? (similar to the windoze "start" menu)
[01:30:15] <jimfleig> IRC is running in xchat
[01:30:16] <asdfq-shop> Trying cliking on one of the windows before you type?
[01:30:22] <jimfleig> yes
[01:30:45] <jimfleig> I opened the text editor to test the keyboard and nothing
[01:30:51] <jmkasunich> yes to which (one of the hazards of having multiple people trying to help)
[01:31:09] <jimfleig> asdfq-shop yes
[01:31:15] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:31:22] <jepler> asdfq-shop: hello
[01:31:34] <jimfleig> also jmkasunich yes
[01:31:40] <asdfq-shop> Oops, I've been seen
[01:31:42] <jmkasunich> ok ;-)
[01:31:44] <asdfq-shop> [lurks]
[01:32:36] <jmkasunich> when you click in the editor window (or the IRC box where you type what you want to say), do/did you get a blinking vertical line cursor?
[01:32:58] <jimfleig> jmkasunich: no
[01:33:01] <jepler> asdfq-shop: if I understood the last few e-mails, it's not easy to get python2.4 for bdi?
[01:33:24] <jmkasunich> ok, the blinking vertical bar cursor tells you where your keyboard input is going
[01:33:51] <jmkasunich> if you don't see one, it might be going nowhere (you might be trying to type to a program that doesn't accept typing)
[01:34:03] <jimfleig> jmkasunich: no blinking cursor anywhere means no keyboard input - correct?
[01:34:08] <jmkasunich> when its working OK, you do get the vertical bar cursor, right?
[01:34:09] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:34:21] <jimfleig> correct
[01:34:50] <jmkasunich> right now I have a blinking bar in my IRC window... when I click on the editor I get one there, when I click on a shell window I get a blinking box cursor
[01:34:56] <asdfq-shop> jepler: It's easy enough, but you need to get it from a debian repository - it's not on the BDI
[01:35:08] <jepler> asdfq-shop: it just so happens that 'subprocess' is only used when it's an emc2 system, and even then it's not really needed. you could try a patch like this one: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/subprocess.patch
[01:35:13] <jimfleig> same for me when it works
[01:35:15] <jmkasunich> but if I click on a file browser, no bar... you can't type into the browser
[01:35:23] <jimfleig> correct
[01:35:33] <jimfleig> that
[01:35:36] <jimfleig> that
[01:35:40] <jimfleig> that
[01:35:51] <jmkasunich> echo?
[01:35:55] <jimfleig> that's why I opened the text editor to test
[01:36:04] <jimfleig> clumsy fingers
[01:36:24] <jmkasunich> oh, the ' key
[01:36:28] <jmkasunich> I do that all the time too
[01:36:30] <jimfleig> ' is next to enter
[01:36:36] <jmkasunich> too damn close to enter
[01:36:48] <jepler> yeah, the placement of the apostrophe key is clearly the worst bug in qwerty keyboards.
[01:36:55] <jepler> it doesn't help that no two enter keys are the same size
[01:37:10] <jimfleig> replacing the keyboard will be cheap, easy and quick
[01:37:20] <jimfleig> it may cure the problem
[01:37:24] <jmkasunich> hope so
[01:37:37] <jimfleig> how is the graphical diff obtained?
[01:37:40] <asdfq-shop> I always shop for keyboards with the smaller enter keys - the larger 'L' shaped ones get sticky
[01:37:53] <jmkasunich> its a program called kdiff3
[01:38:00] <jmkasunich> I can walk you thru the process of installing it
[01:38:14] <jimfleig> will it run on Ubuntu?
[01:38:17] <jmkasunich> we'll use synaptic, which is the graphical tool for finding and installing programs on ubuntu
[01:38:18] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:38:28] <jimfleig> tell me what to do
[01:38:49] <jmkasunich> on your main system menu, there are "applications", "places", and "system" buttons
[01:38:54] <jimfleig> yes
[01:39:15] <jmkasunich> hit System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager
[01:39:35] <jmkasunich> it will ask you for your password, type that in
[01:39:53] <jimfleig> warning window
[01:40:11] <jimfleig> is there a way to send you a screen shot?
[01:40:14] <jmkasunich> whats the warning?
[01:40:25] <jmkasunich> hmm....
[01:40:30] <jmkasunich> yes, but non-trivial
[01:40:37] <jimfleig> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://us.archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists and more
[01:41:07] <jmkasunich> cradek: jepler: a little help?
[01:41:19] <jmkasunich> you have a pretty new unstall of ubuntu, right?
[01:41:34] <jimfleig> yes v5.10 I think
[01:41:52] <jmkasunich> I mean recently installed... I'm running 5.10 too, but I installed it months ago
[01:41:54] <jepler> jmkasunich: I'm here, but that error doesn't ring any bells
[01:42:06] <jmkasunich> there might have been something I had to do the first time and don't remember now
[01:42:23] <jimfleig> The CD
[01:42:36] <jmkasunich> is it in the drive?
[01:42:47] <jimfleig> The CD's were received about 3 months ago, installed recently.
[01:42:51] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:42:54] <jimfleig> no
[01:43:24] <jimfleig> I have the CD with me
[01:43:25] <jmkasunich> I don't normaly use the CD, I use the net, but maybe synaptic is trying to get the stuff from the CD
[01:43:43] <jepler> I don't think that's it -- it wouldn't say 'http:' if it was looking for the CD
[01:44:33] <jimfleig> would more of the warning message help?
[01:45:00] <jepler> Is there a line beginning with "E:"? One starting with "W" may just be a warning
[01:45:34] <jmkasunich> jepler: my sources.list has "http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu", his error message lacks the trailing ubuntu... think thats significant?
[01:45:42] <jmkasunich> I can't see how his sources.list would get fubared
[01:45:46] <jimfleig> several lines begin with W, should I just click OK?
[01:46:05] <jmkasunich> sure, lets see what happens
[01:46:38] <jimfleig> the synaptic window is open
[01:46:53] <jmkasunich> ok, lets ignore the warning for now
[01:47:05] <jimfleig> what's next?
[01:47:08] <jmkasunich> theres a button labeled "reload" at the top left
[01:47:19] <jimfleig> yes
[01:47:31] <jmkasunich> click that... there will be some thrashing around (and hopefully no more warnings, but if there are, just click OK)
[01:47:42] <jmkasunich> that will make sure that you have the latest info
[01:48:07] <jmkasunich> (synaptic is basiclly a catalog of several thousand free packages you can download.. you want the latest list
[01:48:23] <jepler> if the dialog looked like this, then it's just a warning that will be corrected by 'refresh': http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/synaptic-warning.png
[01:48:40] <jimfleig> ok, the window is back
[01:48:59] <jmkasunich> ok, click the "search" button
[01:49:28] <jmkasunich> put "kdiff" in the box
[01:49:32] <jimfleig> ok
[01:49:32] <jmkasunich> and hit OK
[01:49:52] <jmkasunich> it should come back with a list... mine has 2 lines, kdiff3 and tkdiff
[01:50:16] <jmkasunich> click the box next to kdiff3, and then click "mark for installation"
[01:50:40] <jimfleig> no list
[01:50:44] <tomp> go deeper or suggest 'sudo apt-get install kdiff" ?
[01:50:58] <jmkasunich> tomp: I'm sticking with the GUI tools for now
[01:51:02] <tomp> k
[01:51:13] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: the search returned nothing?
[01:51:27] <jimfleig> correct
[01:51:33] <jepler> kdiff3 is in "universe"
[01:51:49] <jmkasunich> sigh
[01:51:51] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:51:55] <jimfleig> scrolling through the files there is no kdiff in All
[01:51:56] <jmkasunich> we can deal with that
[01:52:07] <jimfleig> where is universe?
[01:52:20] <jepler> choose settings > repositories
[01:53:03] <jimfleig> software preferences window opens
[01:53:10] <jepler> click "add", and then turn on 'Community maintained (Universe)'. click OK to dismiss both windows.
[01:53:33] <jepler> click "Yes" when it tells you "Repositories changed"
[01:53:52] <jepler> then search for kdiff again
[01:54:00] <jimfleig> done, waiting on computer
[01:55:26] <jimfleig> now the kdiff3 is displayed
[01:55:31] <jmkasunich> yay!
[01:55:44] <jepler> then we're back to where we were 5 minutes ago: 20:59:26 <jmkasunich> click the box next to kdiff3, and then click "mark for installation"
[01:55:45] <jimfleig> me too, yay!
[01:55:48] <jmkasunich> click the box next to it, click "mark for instalation"
[01:55:58] <jmkasunich> the box should have a little arrow now
[01:56:13] <jmkasunich> then go up and click "apply"
[01:56:22] <jmkasunich> you will get a "Summary" window
[01:56:26] <jimfleig> a new window opened
[01:56:39] <jimfleig> Mark additional required changes?
[01:56:58] <jmkasunich> is there a really long list?
[01:57:18] <jimfleig> 10 files or so
[01:57:28] <jmkasunich> how fast is your internet?
[01:57:35] <jmkasunich> dial or dsl?
[01:57:37] <jepler> jmkasunich: it's a series of tubes ...
[01:57:38] <jimfleig> DSL
[01:57:56] <jimfleig> you got me laughing
[01:58:34] <jmkasunich> (the reason I asked is because I already had most of that additional stuff installed,,, I didn't want to start you on a multi-hour download)
[01:58:39] <jmkasunich> jepler: what?
[01:59:08] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: go ahead and "mark additional changes"
[01:59:16] <jimfleig> I am very happy to be DSL now
[01:59:35] <jimfleig> I am way out in the country and thought it would never reach us
[01:59:47] <jimfleig> did it
[02:00:01] <jimfleig> Apply?
[02:00:01] <jmkasunich> I now have a "summary" window
[02:00:25] <jimfleig> I have the Synaptic Package Manager window
[02:00:28] <jmkasunich> it should tell you how many packages will be installed, how much disk space is needed, and how much will be downladed, right?
[02:00:43] <jmkasunich> oh, I'm one step ahead, sorry
[02:00:46] <jmkasunich> hit apply
[02:00:52] <jmkasunich> that should get you the summary window
[02:01:03] <jimfleig> yes
[02:01:21] <jimfleig> apply?
[02:01:26] <jmkasunich> how many packages? hopefiully not dozens?
[02:01:36] <jimfleig> 11
[02:01:38] <jmkasunich> and hopefully not a bazilling kB to be downloaded
[02:01:51] <jimfleig> 23.2 MB
[02:01:54] <jmkasunich> ok, hit apply
[02:02:17] <jmkasunich> future packages hopefully won't be so bad
[02:02:24] <jimfleig> its thinking
[02:02:36] <jmkasunich> its probably downloading
[02:02:42] <jimfleig> yes
[02:03:00] <jmkasunich> I already have many of those additional requirements installed, so I only needed about 1 meg
[02:03:19] <jimfleig> this is going quickly
[02:03:31] <jmkasunich> in the future if you find yourself wanting a program to do something, go into synaptic, use search, and see what you can find
[02:03:49] <jmkasunich> I usually tell it to search in "names and descriptions" and put in a key word or two
[02:04:01] <jimfleig> heard any feedback on the solid modeling software?
[02:04:08] <jmkasunich> then look thru the list that comes up, read the descriptions of each one, and see what looks interesting
[02:04:15] <jmkasunich> nope
[02:04:40] <jimfleig> applying changes is occuring
[02:06:15] <jimfleig> it is all done thinking
[02:06:20] <jmkasunich> great
[02:06:27] <jmkasunich> you can exit from synaptic now
[02:06:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: (attempt to) support systems without 'subprocess' (python2.3) and 'halcmd' (everything but emc2)
[02:06:58] <jimfleig> ok
[02:07:06] <jepler> jmkasunich: haven't you heard this "the internet is a series of tubes" meme? Some US senator made a very confused speech about net neutrality (I think he was against it) and used that phrase.
[02:07:25] <jmkasunich> oh, hadn't heard that
[02:07:50] <jmkasunich> jimfleig: I was hoping that kdiff3 would now appear in the main menu, but I don't see it
[02:07:57] <jmkasunich> you can start it from a shell though
[02:08:07] <jmkasunich> just type "kdiff3" and hit enter
[02:08:08] <jimfleig> I don't see it either
[02:08:48] <tomp> i tried to follow the install of kdiff3, on Ubuntu 6.06 dapper. synaptic fails to get us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/amin Packages
[02:08:48] <jmkasunich> you should get a big kdiff3 window, and a smaller dialog in the center with space for A, B, and C filenames
[02:09:19] <jimfleig> there it is
[02:09:21] <tomp> later
[02:09:43] <jmkasunich> ok, click the File button for A
[02:09:53] <jmkasunich> and pick one of the files you want to compare
[02:10:07] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/gcodemodule.cc: fix for bdi4 include file name change as reported by thomas
[02:10:25] <jmkasunich> then do the same for File B
[02:10:34] <jmkasunich> (the other file to compare)
[02:10:41] <jimfleig> the two files are side by side with differences, very nice
[02:11:26] <jimfleig> thank you again, more progress in a few hours than I accomplished in the last 3 months
[02:11:43] <jmkasunich> no prob, feel free to come back and ask more questions
[02:12:19] <tomp> i tried to follow the install of kdiff3, on Ubuntu 6.06 dapper. synaptic fails to get us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/min Packages
[02:12:37] <jimfleig> if you have any machine questions I can help with, please ask (email jim@cncservices.ws)
[02:12:47] <jmkasunich> will do
[02:13:06] <jimfleig> I won't be able to contribute on the software side for awhile but I know machines very well
[02:13:25] <jimfleig> thanks, night all
[02:13:35] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:13:49] <tomp> it fails on several repository package lists, is this normal?
[02:13:51] <jmkasunich> phew... I forget how much we take for granted
[02:14:00] <jmkasunich> I'm no repository expert
[02:14:14] <jepler> tomp: no, that is not normal
[02:14:26] <tomp> any suggestions please?
[02:14:32] <jmkasunich> (if jepler hadn't noticed the universe thing I'd have been stumped with jim's problem)
[02:15:45] <jepler> tomp: you can do other stuff on the network with that machine?
[02:16:22] <tomp> yes, good q. i can but downloads of size seem to choke ( apt-get, synaptic wget... )
[02:17:25] <jepler> but no problems like that with other machines on the network?
[02:17:42] <jepler> I ran "sudo apt-get update" in my dapper machine and it completed without error
[02:18:07] <tomp> correct, this machine is fast. i'm testing cool-cnc.uiso on problem machine now...
[02:18:10] <jepler> including 'Get:11 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/main Packages [42.8kB]'
[02:19:05] <tomp> iso choked immediatly on problem machine but web pages switch quickly
[02:19:48] <tomp> svg
[02:19:56] <tomp> sorry wrong kbd
[02:20:16] <jepler> you mean, you were trying to download the coolcnc iso with the ubuntu machine, and it failed?
[02:20:42] <jepler> what does a program like wget say when it fails?
[02:20:44] <tomp> well it choked, stopped got 33k and stayed there
[02:21:02] <tomp> cheking, it was a while ago
[02:22:43] <tomp> hmm, demons? now web access is slow on that system ... web access to find something to wget
[02:23:42] <tomp> no err this time on wget, wwill try the iso with wget tho ( big enuf )
[02:25:22] <jepler> intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose
[02:25:53] <jepler> is your network a simple wired one, or is there anything unusual about it?
[02:26:09] <tomp> wget-ing the iso now... eta 3:46:04 5 6: going up!
[02:26:14] <jepler> if you're not using dhcp (or even if you are), is it possible two machines got the same IP address?
[02:26:38] <tomp> the network is a single dsl modem, thu this box, and ipmasquerading with others having fixed addrs
[02:27:04] <tomp> checking addrs now,
[02:27:06] <jepler> "this box" is another linux system?
[02:27:11] <tomp> yes
[02:28:10] <jepler> if you have linux networking experience that makes the chance I'll think of something you overlooked much smaller.
[02:28:45] <tomp> only bad experience :-) bad box = good (eth1) is
[02:29:40] <jepler> so wget runs for awhile, but then it stops showing more progress downloading the file?
[02:30:07] <tomp> it chokes, now at 2.39kbps in wget
[02:30:28] <tomp> and 20:26:39 :-)
[02:31:00] <jepler> I'm grasping at straws, but your problem sounds similar to the one described here:
[02:31:09] <jepler> "
[02:31:10] <jepler> If this is happening, typical symptoms include the ability for small packets (eg. request a very small web page) to get through, but larger ones (eg. a large web page) will simply hang. This situation can be confusing to the novice administrator because they obviously have some connectivity to the host, but it just stops working for no obvious reason on certain transfers. "
[02:31:34] <tomp> I'll go look at that, this isnt emc, so I'll leave , thanks
[02:31:49] <jepler> best of luck
[02:32:13] <jepler> I hope you get things working soon
[02:33:52] <tomp> it sounds like I got a governor on my connection! thanks, g'nite
[06:03:50] <fenn> maybe he has a senator on his connection who is against net neutrality
[07:25:50] <fenn> lol that ray henry is quite a joker "We'll look with anticipation for your distribution."
[07:27:27] <renesis> damn almost forgot about you guys
[07:27:38] <renesis> you guys are window 34 =\
[07:28:00] <fenn> desktop 7 window 34 tab 9
[07:28:09] <renesis> tabs?
[07:28:14] <renesis> fluxbox?
[07:28:18] <fenn> xchat
[07:28:23] <renesis> =/
[07:28:31] <fenn> each channel has a tab
[07:29:06] <fenn> icewm is my window manager
[07:33:34] <renesis> i know xchat
[07:33:39] <renesis> i cant stand it =(
[07:33:46] <renesis> (irssi, w00t)
[07:34:06] <fenn> i like irssi/screen in concept but it flickers on my machine and i never really looked into how to fix it
[09:58:54] <harty> evening all just wondering if emc2 will tread with just a index pulse like a not to be mentioned dos program does
[09:59:30] <anonimasu> hm, I dont think anyone mind even if you do mention it
[09:59:55] <harty> that should have been thread not tread
[10:00:57] <anonimasu> :)
[11:20:30] <jepler> harty: you could try setting up the hal 'counter' component for 1 count-per-rev, but frankly none of us believe that threading with only an index pulse really works.
[11:24:40] <jepler> there may also be assumptions in the code that you'll get at least one count per trajectory period (10ms by default)
[11:26:44] <cradek> I saw a video so I believe that it does cut something that looks thread-like
[11:27:31] <jepler> hi cradek
[11:27:31] <cradek> I noticed it waits a long time before each pass
[11:27:34] <cradek> hi
[11:28:56] <cradek> it's not going to work with emc as-is
[11:30:03] <anonimasu> cradek: can you run constant surface speed on a lathe with emc now?
[11:30:26] <cradek> not yet but some of the work necessary to support that is now done
[11:30:48] <anonimasu> ok
[11:30:52] <anonimasu> just being curious :)
[11:30:58] <anonimasu> I dont have a lathe yet
[11:31:02] <anonimasu> err cnc lathe ;)
[11:32:57] <cradek> bbl
[11:34:36] <anonimasu> ok
[11:37:49] <Guest570> hello everybody
[11:40:44] <DidierL> hello everybody
[11:42:22] <jepler> good morning
[11:44:23] <DidierL> thank you, but it's near 14h00 for me
[11:45:26] <DidierL> could you help me ? i have minigl.error (out of memory) ???
[11:46:21] <DidierL> i have just found , i think
[11:46:56] <DidierL> i need libgl1-mesa-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev
[11:50:12] <DidierL> thank you, bye
[11:52:04] <jepler> huh, I wonder what he meant
[12:10:35] <harty> thanks for the info i was just trying to get out of buying a encoder i have one i was going to use but its 12volts in and out not 5v
[12:11:15] <Dallur> resistor ?
[12:12:59] <anonimasu> optocoupler
[12:13:05] <harty> im a bit rusty on my electronics and dont really want to fry my pport
[12:19:17] <harty> anonimasu: will look into the optocoupler havent used one before but its a good idea
[12:19:51] <anonimasu> they are the best way not to fry anything :)
[12:21:33] <Dallur> anonimasu: Do you know if there is any latency in optical isolators ?
[12:21:44] <anonimasu> yes, small one
[12:21:50] <anonimasu> it's all in the spec sheet for the particular ones
[12:22:20] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm might be problematic for higher rpm
[12:22:35] <anonimasu> just look at the spec sheet..
[12:22:41] <anonimasu> what kind of rev's do you expect to be threading at?
[12:23:49] <harty> dont realy know yet at a guess say 500rpm
[12:24:36] <harty> it all depends on how fast i can get my machine to feed
[12:25:43] <Dallur> 120ms per cycle is 500rpm so I would think that would not cause problems, anonimasu ?
[12:26:48] <anonimasu> that sounds slow..
[12:27:04] <harty> dallur: is that at 1 pulse per rev
[12:27:10] <jepler> 500 rpm * 1024 quadrature counts / revolution = 8.5kHz, or 117 microseconds
[12:27:22] <anonimasu> let me see
[12:27:37] <jepler> so you want the rise- and fall-time of the optocoupler to be much smaller
[12:27:42] <harty> the encoder i have is 1000ppr
[12:27:47] <anonimasu> 4,3us
[12:27:51] <anonimasu> typical
[12:28:06] <anonimasu> for one im looking at
[12:28:12] <anonimasu> that should be enough
[12:28:31] <anonimasu> http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?lang=se&dok=2014791.htm
[12:28:49] <anonimasu> stig/falltid = rise and fall
[12:30:20] <jepler> though an inverting level-shifter (non-isolated) is also simple to build
[12:31:33] <harty> jepler: now you have lost me got a circuit diagram?
[12:31:42] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/level-shifter.png
[12:32:08] <jepler> though now that I look at it again, there's a resistor missing on the base of the transistor
[12:32:42] <jepler> I made this to show switching a 24V signal from 5V, but it's the same to do a 5V signal from 12
[12:32:52] <jepler> bbl
[12:36:22] <harty> anonimasu: at what rpm would you start to have trouble with a optocoupler
[12:39:52] <anonimasu> I have no idea really
[12:40:37] <harty> lol thanks for the other info
[14:28:49] <Rugludallur> hey
[14:30:21] <Rugludallur> is google down for you guys?
[14:32:36] <jepler> works here
[14:33:20] <Rugludallur> thanks, strange but google.com, and google.co.uk do not respond, must be some wierd bgp routing thing
[14:41:15] <^Eugenics> Hello everyone
[14:41:26] <^Eugenics> Rugludallur: Any progress on your THC?
[14:42:20] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: Right now im learning some C to be able to add some things to EMC :D
[14:43:07] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: Im still waiting for a part for the Z axis on my table so I have not been able to test :(
[14:43:42] <^Eugenics> OK
[14:45:01] <^Eugenics> Rugludallur: I guess you are not thinking of an HAL component!?
[14:45:35] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: right now I want to extend vcp to add toggle functionality
[14:46:33] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: toggle buttons that is, and while I am at it I'm going to try to make buttons switch color based on the state of the pin they control
[14:46:53] <^Eugenics> ok
[14:56:40] <^Eugenics> Rugludallur: are you going to make that for Axis?
[14:56:57] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: vcp can be used with Axis yes
[14:59:52] <^Eugenics> Rugludallur: Ehh don't know what vcp is. But isn't Axis written in tcl?
[15:00:38] <jepler> vcp is a separate program. you can run a vcp at the same time as tkemc or axis
[15:01:34] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/Dallur_vcp.png
[15:01:49] <Rugludallur> Eugenics: sample of VCP
[15:02:11] <^Eugenics> ok
[15:02:37] <jepler> axis is written in Python (8k lines), C/C++ (4k lines), and tcl (2k lines)
[15:03:36] <^Eugenics> You counted the lines fast ;)
[15:05:11] <les_w> morning.
[15:05:38] <Rugludallur> les_w west coast ?
[15:05:59] <les_w> goody...just got a air line mass flowmeter and some titanium sheet in the mail
[15:06:15] <les_w> georgia...closer to east coast
[15:06:40] <jepler> ^Eugenics: find ... | xargs cat | wc -l doesn't take long to run
[15:33:07] <Rugludallur> Not to be nasty or anything but I just read the most recent post on emc-users, ROFL
[15:38:19] <Rugludallur> Example -> When I started my computer, UBUNTU install dick in the DVD drive, I can see on monitor ASUS logo.
[15:40:31] <SWPadnos> hiya folks
[15:40:57] <Rugludallur> hey
[15:42:08] <SWPadnos> logger_aj, bookmark
[15:42:08] <SWPadnos> See
[15:42:43] <^Eugenics> Hello there
[16:27:16] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/minigl.c: nvidia apparently defines glBlendColor in glext.h. let's hope all systems have that header.
[16:29:46] <cradek> if we find otherwise, let's take it back out, since nvidia operation is problematic in other ways too
[16:34:56] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/minigl.c: try something else for nvidia cards
[16:35:28] <jepler> yeah but for instance we want the software to work even if it's compiled on a machine with the nvidia headers
[16:35:34] <jepler> even if you can't run on it
[16:35:41] <cradek> good point
[16:35:56] <cradek> (like the breezy packages are)
[16:36:10] <cradek> ok I bet it's fixed now
[16:40:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi
[16:41:08] <cradek> hi
[16:41:09] <jepler> the lathe tool is still opaque.
[16:41:28] <cradek> ok
[16:41:34] <cradek> not sure if that's good or bad
[16:42:12] <jepler> er .. actually, it now appears "behind"
[16:48:57] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: tweak the appearance of the shaped lathe tools
[16:51:15] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: cut the number of distinct jog rates in half
[16:51:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ^ why that modification?
[16:51:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I find a 5% step too coarse
[16:54:21] <cradek> jog, not feed override
[16:54:27] <cradek> jog is the logarithmic one
[16:54:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh! jog. right
[16:54:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that sounds good
[16:55:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is the update-on-mouse-release fixed?
[16:55:18] <cradek> I don't recall this bug report
[16:55:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature ;)
[16:55:41] <cradek> I don't recall this bug or feature report
[16:56:27] <jepler> revision 1.12
[16:56:27] <jepler> date: 2004/12/01 14:24:33; author: jepler; state: Exp; lines: +12 -11
[16:56:27] <jepler> buttons that act on mousedown should only do so for button1.
[16:56:27] <jepler> Make the step value for feedrate 5 instead of 1.
[16:56:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't like it in any case. If I jog with the arrow keys, and simultaneusly adjust the slider, the jog speed doesn't change untill I release the button. which is not the same behavior as the jog override
[16:56:52] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: that bug can't be fixed in the GUIs
[16:57:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> s/jog/feed (the latter one)
[16:57:07] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: the speed of a jog is set when it begins, and you can only change that with new NML messages
[16:57:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh..
[16:57:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the feed is autoupdated though
[16:58:21] <jepler> now, I wonder if this "feedrate 5%" thing is because there aren't enough pixels for smaller increments (with the typical 120% maximum) or because of the way the slider used to be generally buggy when it was being dragged around...
[16:58:46] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: make feed override go in 1tcl/axis.tcls
[16:58:49] <jepler> argh
[16:58:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it jumps to 5% steps even when I have 150% max
[16:58:54] <jepler> that should be "in 1%s"
[16:59:08] <cradek> thanks vim
[16:59:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so feed and jog go via different internal transports?
[16:59:54] <jepler> yes.
[17:00:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's a pity, it would have been nice to have jog autoupdate
[17:00:20] <jepler> the "feed" number can change at any time, but the "jog" number is set when the jog begins
[17:00:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> all the more reason to use my jogwheels ;)
[17:01:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> are feedoverride wheels working yet?
[17:01:41] <jepler> there is an analog feed override pin on the motion controller.
[17:01:43] <jepler> it works
[17:01:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> analog?
[17:02:03] <jepler> it takes a float input
[17:02:34] <jepler> bbl, lunchtime in north america
[17:02:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, right
[17:02:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[17:03:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=6601 <---- it's a shame that there will always be people like this
[17:03:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so a feedwheel should be as easy/hard to config as a jogwheel?
[17:04:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Basically the article says: "hackers" use OSS systems to make botnets! it's all CVS and other OSS fault!
[17:20:24] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks!
[17:35:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi
[17:39:30] <Jymmm> what's happening?
[17:50:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> dinner
[17:54:38] <^Eugenics> Bon apetit!
[18:36:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hello again
[18:54:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any page documenting how do do things in hal? semi-advanced things like feedwheels and the things that have to do with that?
[18:58:06] <jepler> if it's not in the pdf hal manual, it may not be documented. you can try the source, or look at the available pins and signals with halcmd
[18:58:46] <jepler> if a "feedwheel" is the thing that advances the program each time it is clicked forward, we don't have support for that yet.
[19:05:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, a "feedwheel" should change the feed override
[19:05:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> from 0 to <max>(typically 120%)
[19:05:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> in maybe 5% steps
[19:06:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> running programs in SBL mode may be good to add later, as all commercial lathes I've used have that. (SBL only runs the next line when you press a button, typically program start)
[19:06:42] <A-L-P-H-4> anyone got a regex handy that grabs TLDs? and not the "directory/file?params"
[19:07:14] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: you should be able to do that with an encoder block and halui
[19:07:25] <A-L-P-H-4> so "http://www.numatics.com/product/filterelements/rplcfltrelem.asp" turns into "http://www.numatics.com"
[19:07:47] <cradek> well, FO isn't in halui yet, but SMOP
[19:07:55] <A-L-P-H-4> or "http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/5634421/?site=5634421&cmd=knockPage&page=http%3A//www.ecompressedair.com/compressedairfilters/filter.asp%3Foem%3Dwilkerson%26mfgid%3D64&visitorStatus=INSITE_STATUS&activePlugin=none&pageWindowName=&javaSupport=true&id=2927441177&scriptVers" turns into "http://server.iad.liveperson.net"
[19:08:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> another thing that may be good to add in axis that all lathe's I've run have is a display that shows how much movement is left for each axis, so if you're at x0 z0 and run g0 x10 z-1, it will start with x10 z-1, go to x5 z-.5 halfway through, and reach x0 z0 when the move is done
[19:09:03] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: I don't know what SBL means
[19:09:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that is quite handy if you're close to something and want to measure and see if you'l hit a fixture or something
[19:09:33] <rayh> I put a note about Distance To Go in the lathe wiki page a few days ago.
[19:10:12] <A-L-P-H-4> I'm thinking /s/http[s]*:\/\/[^(.net)|(.com)|(.org)]*[(.net)|(.com)|(.org)]/ or something like that
[19:10:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SBL stands for single block line (don't ask me why) but the effect is that it only runs one line of code, then stops untill you press a button (typically program start), after which it runs the next line, after which you need to press program start, and so on and so forth
[19:10:17] <cradek> do you mean distance until the end of the move? if I program g0x3 x2.5 x2 x1.5 x1, what does it show at 2.25?
[19:10:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: SMOP?
[19:10:28] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: we already have that, it's called step
[19:10:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: oh, ok. nice
[19:10:50] <rayh> Yes distance to the end of the move.
[19:11:05] <cradek> I'll go read your addition ray
[19:11:10] <jepler> A-L-P-H-4: your favorite language may already have some functions built in to do this. For instance, in Python,
[19:11:13] <jepler> >>> urlparse.urlparse("http://www.numatics.com/product/filterelements/rplcfltrelem.asp")
[19:11:16] <jepler> ('http', 'www.numatics.com', '/product/filterelements/rplcfltrelem.asp', '', '', '')
[19:11:24] <A-L-P-H-4> jepler!!!!
[19:11:40] <A-L-P-H-4> jepler... so freak'n smart.
[19:11:45] <A-L-P-H-4> you're so freak'n smart!
[19:11:46] <A-L-P-H-4> :D
[19:11:57] <A-L-P-H-4> url_parse() in php
[19:11:57] <jepler> I know that regular expressions are not the answer to everything
[19:12:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, dry run is good too
[19:12:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe an addition worth considering
[19:12:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> changes all g1/2/3 etc moves to max vel, stops all spindles, and doesn't have coolant on
[19:13:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> typically you don't have a billet in the machine then ;)
[19:13:43] <cradek> I use soft limits to keep out of the chuck
[19:13:52] <cradek> you get a warning before the program even starts
[19:14:18] <rayh> The only problem with soft limits is if you need to through drill or bore something.
[19:14:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, that sounds useful, but I can imagine scenarios where other things come into contact
[19:14:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> say a movable tailstock
[19:14:37] <cradek> why is DTG important for lathes but not mills?
[19:14:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or a toolholder that comes into contact
[19:15:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I would find it usefiul for mills too
[19:15:24] <cradek> the tailstock is a real problem with emc, the Z travel can't be protected in both directions by soft limits because you can't change them when you move the tailstock without editing the ini
[19:15:43] <rayh> Never seen it on a mill. Usually used during setup to make certain the cutter clears the jaws.
[19:16:23] <cradek> with AXIS you can see the extents of the program as soon as you load it, it's a simple matter to jog to (or near) them and measure
[19:16:43] <cradek> I bet dry runs are much more important if you don't have a good preview mode
[19:17:53] <cradek> is DTG shown in addition to the normal coordinate readout, or in place of it?
[19:18:10] <rayh> Fanuc had displays that were both ways.
[19:18:30] <rayh> Could be DTG full screen or a set of three or four displays.
[19:18:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> my siemens shows both
[19:18:48] <rayh> Okay.
[19:18:49] <cradek> what are the other displays?
[19:19:03] <cradek> (seeing both seems most useful to me)
[19:19:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> machine coordinates, relative, and one more
[19:19:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, hardware level IIRC
[19:19:27] <cradek> oh interesting, I never thought about showing relative and machine both
[19:19:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> can be useful I suppose
[19:20:11] <cradek> if you could turn each on and off (to prevent information overload when you only need one)
[19:20:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, uh, DTG and step can be used nicely together, if you want to verify the distance of a motion or for long a certain portion is, without looking in the gcode
[19:20:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes that would be a prequesite
[19:21:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> gah borkborkbork speak
[19:21:42] <cradek> I follow you
[19:21:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ;)
[19:21:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> good
[19:22:22] <cradek> I will have to think about DTG, it's not quite simple to do
[19:22:46] <cradek> currently the gui only knows where it is, not where it's headed
[19:22:47] <jepler> yeah, DTG is not information that is available
[19:22:58] <cradek> hi jeff
[19:22:58] <jepler> and in the case of a canned cycle, what is the DTG?
[19:23:28] <cradek> that's a good question (thinking of multipass threading)
[19:23:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> canned cycles are made into simple Gcode motions, right?
[19:24:01] <cradek> sort of
[19:24:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> threading would be mainly g33?
[19:24:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and some g0 and g1
[19:24:17] <cradek> yes
[19:24:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> AFAIR it shows the distance to the next internal step
[19:24:49] <cradek> ok good, I think that's what we would end up with the way I'm thinking about doing it
[19:25:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's what sounds most useful at least
[19:25:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> would DTR require a big hack?
[19:25:28] <cradek> it would be some work
[19:25:56] <cradek> and we'll screw up coordinate systems, tool offsets, and units for the first 10 tries
[19:26:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha
[19:26:14] <cradek> especially units
[19:26:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe something for the backburner
[19:26:33] <cradek> it's good to have on the wikipage so it's not forgotten
[19:26:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> rel/abs display should trivial though
[19:26:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or rather, rel+abs
[19:27:01] <cradek> that's easier, just a gui issue
[19:27:28] <cradek> don't tell jepler but this weekend I was wishing for a dual display showing both inch and mm
[19:28:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra prods jepler
[19:28:12] <cradek> shhh
[19:28:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> why would you need that?
[19:28:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok ok
[19:28:42] <cradek> running an inch program on a metric lathe with a metric caliper in hand
[19:29:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh
[19:29:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> right
[19:29:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what do you mean by metric lathe?
[19:29:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> isn't all just a matter of steps/unit?
[19:30:03] <cradek> metric units for everything by default
[19:30:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[19:30:39] <cradek> not a big deal, you can switch the display anyway
[19:31:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that dual display would be an option, and not a forced thing, right? it seems that in most uses it would just take up space, though it could be useful sometimes
[19:31:56] <cradek> rayh: can you think of anything else conspicuously missing from the lathe functionality? other than CSS?
[19:32:05] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: of course
[19:32:24] <cradek> I bet most people will want only one coordinate readout at a time unless doing something special
[19:32:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> exactly
[19:32:40] <rayh> Not really. You've made great progress with the tool geometry stuff and spindle control.
[19:32:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: I want units/rev feedrate! </nag>
[19:32:59] <rayh> DTG was one thing that I thought of while talking to a couple of lathe operators.
[19:33:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> then again, units/rev is a prequesite for CSS ;)
[19:33:32] <cradek> ok
[19:33:42] <cradek> in my thinking they do go together
[19:34:06] <cradek> rayh: thanks for the compliment
[19:34:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you can have units/rev (and I use it a lot) without CSS, but not the opposite
[19:34:22] <cradek> rayh: did I tell you my sherline is now servo cnc?
[19:34:31] <rayh> You deserve a lot more than that.
[19:34:38] <rayh> No you didn't.
[19:34:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: lathe functionality *really* has skyrocketed!
[19:34:50] <cradek> it works very nicely
[19:34:50] <rayh> What did you do for motors, feedback
[19:34:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> really nice
[19:34:55] <rayh> board.
[19:35:03] <cradek> jmk gave me some motors out of his junkbox at workshop
[19:35:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how much better are servos?
[19:35:14] <cradek> the driver is all homemade
[19:35:15] <SWPadnos> CSS?
[19:35:27] <cradek> no spindle speed control on mine yet
[19:35:40] <cradek> the servos are very fast
[19:35:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> SWPadnos: constant surface speed, varies the rpm to keep a constant perifrial speed
[19:35:48] <SWPadnos> ah -thanks
[19:36:02] <cradek> so as the radius goes down the spindle goes faster
[19:36:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: what about surface finish?
[19:36:25] <cradek> I've only cut threads with it so far but they look good
[19:36:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I think my steppers give me a rough surface, partly becuase they're steppers and partly becuase of the large steps (1/72 mm)
[19:37:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I can see a clear difference between a straight section and a radius
[19:37:12] <cradek> I was threading 1/4-20 with Z at about 1200mm/min
[19:37:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> sounds reasonable
[19:37:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> HSS or carbide?
[19:37:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> sounds like HSS speed
[19:37:52] <cradek> carbide cutting brass, it's all I have
[19:38:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah... :(
[19:38:26] <cradek> it made a nice cut
[19:38:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the benefits of a school with an inexhaustable supply are great
[19:38:48] <cradek> 1/72 mm doesn't sound that large to me
[19:38:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it doesn't?
[19:39:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nearly 14┬Ám
[19:39:38] <cradek> to me it means "half a thousandth" which is about the limit of the precision you get on machines like this
[19:40:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm.
[19:40:24] <cradek> for amateurs like me that is
[19:40:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I guess I've been spoiled by the commercial ones ;)
[19:41:24] <cradek> although on a lathe that's doubled to .001 which is a bit large
[19:41:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but IRT unit/rev, wouldn't that create lots of spec-breakage?
[19:41:49] <cradek> rayh: do most of the real operators have X readout in radius or diameter?
[19:41:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> indeed, that 2x really can mess things up
[19:41:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> diameter
[19:42:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> though I prefer radiu
[19:42:32] <cradek> since I learned on a manual lathe (which is always radius) that's what is natural to me
[19:42:42] <rayh> Most I've seen are diameter
[19:42:45] <cradek> but I can sure understand why you'd want diameter
[19:42:58] <cradek> ok maybe we need to think about how to handle that
[19:43:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the reason being that you don't have to think as much when compensating for the tool length
[19:43:03] <cradek> of course you can just set the scale
[19:43:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, wouldn't that be scale?
[19:43:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> step/unit
[19:43:19] <cradek> oh yuck, tool length is screwy then
[19:43:22] <cradek> bleh
[19:43:27] <rayh> a ten thou tool offset would be 10 thou diameter.
[19:43:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which is why I use radius ;)
[19:43:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> all that converting. yuck.
[19:44:02] <cradek> well you have to keep conversions in mind either way
[19:44:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes, I just find the initial work to be worth it
[19:44:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, one thing that may be nice would be basic formula support in axis
[19:44:37] <cradek> I suppose if you set your tool offsets by cutting and measuring the work, I think it will work out
[19:44:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> in touch off for instance
[19:44:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it would be nice to be able to input 9.45/2
[19:45:06] <cradek> eek!!
[19:45:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> rather than having to start calc or doing to operation
[19:45:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *the
[19:45:22] <cradek> (/ 9.45 2.0) like in autocad!
[19:45:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra now cradek has a lot to do ;)
[19:45:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra> huh?
[19:45:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, rpm
[19:45:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *rpn
[19:45:39] <cradek> lisp
[19:45:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> lisp?
[19:45:49] <jepler> it's trivial to make any Python exp[ression be accepted in the touch off screen
[19:46:09] <jepler> but then you can write __import__("os").system("sudo rm -rf /") -- is security important?
[19:46:11] <cradek> * cradek points at jepler
[19:46:20] <cradek> jepler'll handle this one
[19:46:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> any chance of limiting operations?
[19:46:38] <jepler> will users be pleased that they can no longer enter 009 for 9mm?
[19:46:47] <jepler> (009 is an invalid octal number)
[19:47:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what?
[19:47:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> why do we meed octal base?
[19:47:22] <jepler> 009 is currently accepted as a decimal number
[19:47:22] <cradek> or worse, 030
[19:47:32] <cradek> no error, just a surprise
[19:47:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> isn't that what it should be?
[19:47:37] <jepler> but if I make it a Python expression, then the meaning of 030 changes and 009 is not accepted
[19:47:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> decimal that is
[19:47:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh.
[19:48:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not so trivial anymore then
[19:48:06] <cradek> I'm not to keen on this change so far
[19:48:20] <cradek> too
[19:48:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> internal python stuff being the reason?
[19:49:19] <cradek> just the many surprises it can cause
[19:49:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't see how you can't like a string input to being decimal
[19:49:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *lock
[19:50:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> then again, I don't know python
[19:50:13] <cradek> it's a matter of accepting expressions
[19:50:30] <cradek> suddenly you're writing in a programming language instead of typing in a number that's handled a particular way
[19:50:34] <jepler> there are two easy choices: using float() which takes just a number written in decimal, or using eval() which takes a Python expression with all the quirks and powers of Python
[19:50:49] <SWPadnos> but a float can be hex
[19:50:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh. ok.
[19:50:54] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos ducks
[19:51:13] <cradek> that's why lisp is better than python - you know the user means an expression when he types (...)
[19:51:23] <cradek> * cradek whispers "troll!"
[19:52:07] <jepler> >>> float("090")
[19:52:07] <jepler> 90.0
[19:52:07] <jepler> >>> eval("090")
[19:52:08] <jepler> SyntaxError: invalid token
[19:52:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> erk
[19:52:18] <jepler> oh yeah the users will love that one
[19:52:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha
[19:52:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there must be some type of work around though...
[19:53:02] <jepler> the other other thing I could do is pass g-code expressions like [9.45/2] to the interpreter
[19:53:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> like truncate leading 0's
[19:53:19] <jepler> see, the thing is, I really don't want to do anything
[19:53:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and trailing 0's
[19:53:41] <jepler> I'll end up with some regular expression that will turn 090 into 9 and 1,000 into 1000 (much to the chagrin of my european users)
[19:53:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> becuase of the risk of large bugs?
[19:54:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> It's called the decimal system for a reason! :p
[19:54:10] <cradek> "surprises"
[19:54:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you have no idea how irritating it is to have a , on the numpad instead of a .
[19:54:58] <cradek> heh
[19:55:25] <cradek> I think that is one of the more bizarre differences between US/europe
[19:55:46] <SWPadnos> US/them, you mean ;)
[19:55:54] <cradek> US/foreigners
[19:56:00] <SWPadnos> exactly
[19:56:10] <SWPadnos> ferriners
[19:56:28] <cradek> units being different I can understand, because we're insane
[19:56:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> aka "those other strange uns"
[19:56:39] <cradek> but the decimal POINT should be a .
[19:56:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> EXACTLY!
[19:56:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not a fscking ,
[19:56:59] <cradek> and dates should be written Y-M-D
[19:57:10] <cradek> (which neither of us does)
[19:57:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> well, at least that's how things are here
[19:57:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> err
[19:57:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or am I mixed up again
[19:57:32] <jepler> you mean, YYYYMMDD with no punctuation
[19:57:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, I think we may have a mix here
[19:57:49] <Rugludallur> and if we can just get the metric clock we are all set
[19:57:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> mainly DD-MM-YY
[19:58:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> though YYYY-MM-DD is better
[19:58:25] <cradek> we have M/D/Y which is silly because it isn't in either order from most to least specific
[19:58:55] <cradek> sometimes I make a lousy american saying these things
[19:59:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> eugh. I remember that from grade school in the US
[19:59:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> as do I
[20:01:33] <jepler> /msg cradek so did we distract him from the "expression parser" debate yet?
[20:01:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not anymore ;)
[20:02:02] <jepler> * jepler goes to get a cup of coffee
[20:02:22] <jepler> google says: Results 1 - 5 of 5 for "cpu of coffee"
[20:02:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> slightly random perhap
[20:44:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alirght, you won't have any more expressions in touch off arguments from me for a while now
[20:44:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> g'night all
[21:23:02] <dmessier> hi all..
[21:26:27] <Jymmm> hey dmessier
[21:27:52] <dmessier> what a past 3-4 weeks.... just NUTS... CANT ANYBODY else try the bleepin' parts but me...
[21:28:22] <dmessier> try making..
[21:38:14] <dmessier> its a 3 pronged- 3 layered - aluminum tuning fork - from forging....
[21:40:26] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:42:12] <dmessier> ??
[21:42:35] <Jymmm> dmessier, making hammers huh =)
[21:42:57] <dmessier> 3 tiered maybe better description...
[21:43:10] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is knackered
[21:43:30] <dmessier> no hammers.. nose landing gear component
[21:43:32] <robin_sz> I think I got too much sun yesterday ... feel crap today
[21:43:48] <dmessier> that'll do it robin
[21:43:57] <robin_sz> dmessier, same thing the way some people land ;)
[21:44:00] <Jymmm> dmessier, Ah, Stanley is putting tuning forks in their hammers now.
[21:47:05] <dmessier> oh.. ok... naw this is called a pivot tube.... but it has a 10 " l shaped handle on the "bottom".. 2 3" lugs about 1.25" abofe that rotated by 5 deg the the lower the an upper at 3.5 from bottom..with 3 forks and 2 clevises... 1 waisted section that bites..
[21:47:43] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: Permit g-code expressions in touch-off
[21:47:54] <jepler> whee
[21:48:02] <cradek> slick
[21:48:40] <SWPadnos> whazzatmean?
[21:49:32] <jepler> SWPadnos: what l_h was asking for earlier
[21:49:47] <SWPadnos> hmmm - gott read back a bit then
[21:49:50] <SWPadnos> gotta
[21:49:51] <jepler> you can type an expression like tan[90]/2 (well, don't use that exact expression) in the "touch off" screen
[21:50:11] <SWPadnos> maybe I should put my emc development machine back together, so I can see the touch off screen ;)
[21:50:18] <jepler> I'll put up a 'shot
[21:50:59] <SWPadnos> thanks
[21:51:20] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/touchoff-expression.png
[21:51:37] <SWPadnos> ah ok.
[21:52:12] <SWPadnos> so you can move to a point (with a probe?) and tell emc what the position is supposed to be, now with a formula
[21:53:06] <jepler> yeah. LH wanted to be able to type '9.5/2' presumably because he has something of diameter 9.5 in his lathe..
[21:53:15] <cradek> with an edgefinder, or by cutting and measuring, say a diameter on a lathe
[21:53:28] <SWPadnos> right. good deal
[21:59:02] <dmessier> controled touch is what its called guys.. or protected touch... errors out with x error
[21:59:59] <dmessier> or was it just the math???
[22:00:13] <jepler> eh?
[22:00:52] <robin_sz> my entire body aches ...
[22:00:59] <robin_sz> I am not well at all.
[22:02:00] <dmessier> H2O and rest... 1st..
[22:02:15] <robin_sz> coka cola!
[22:02:53] <SWPadnos> more like kook-a-cola here
[22:03:12] <robin_sz> a bit warm then?
[22:03:18] <A-L-P-H-4> hey
[22:04:26] <robin_sz> blimey .... 36c forecast for wednesday
[22:05:01] <A-L-P-H-4> who knew the water torch has been around for almost 30 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch
[22:05:24] <SWPadnos> err - the inventor of the water torch?
[22:05:43] <A-L-P-H-4> but not you! :)
[22:06:02] <SWPadnos> nope - I was trying to figure out how they made the pyramids at that time :)
[22:06:17] <A-L-P-H-4> aliens...
[22:06:23] <A-L-P-H-4> aliens with snakes for brains.
[22:06:30] <SWPadnos> sure, but how did *they* do it?
[22:06:37] <A-L-P-H-4> haven't you watched SCI/Fi in the last like 10 years?
[22:06:46] <A-L-P-H-4> oh... force humans as slaves to go do it.
[22:06:53] <SWPadnos> Starrrrrrgate
[22:07:03] <A-L-P-H-4> on it's tenth season.
[22:07:14] <A-L-P-H-4> now with farscape action included.
[22:07:15] <SWPadnos> I haven't really seen the show, only the movie
[22:07:30] <A-L-P-H-4> claudia black (OLD hag with nice body), and Ben Browder (sp?)
[22:07:46] <SWPadnos> I don't get the SciFi channel, so I'm missing a lot
[22:07:58] <A-L-P-H-4> SWPadnos, should be on local channels with a season or so back.
[22:08:13] <SWPadnos> could be, but I mostly watch PBS and DVDs
[22:08:22] <SWPadnos> I waste my time on video games, not TV :)
[22:08:29] <A-L-P-H-4> I like nova... that's the only pbs show I watch... and not even regularly.
[22:08:45] <A-L-P-H-4> SWPadnos... get scorched earth... I'll kick your ass in it. :)
[22:08:59] <A-L-P-H-4> SWPadnos, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scorched3d.co.uk%2F&ei=ogy8RMKDLofK-QGZ2p22Cg&sig2=zkptUn3-ngl2hOBU2x4K1g
[22:09:09] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/ sorry
[22:09:26] <SWPadnos> interesting
[22:09:57] <SWPadnos> I've tried Legends (a couple of years ago), but I usually just play WolfET
[22:10:07] <SWPadnos> then there's Civilization
[22:10:09] <A-L-P-H-4> you play wolfET?
[22:10:18] <A-L-P-H-4> you any good? :)
[22:10:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:10:27] <SWPadnos> (to both)
[22:10:36] <A-L-P-H-4> hmm... I should whoop make you my moving target in wolfET.
[22:10:37] <A-L-P-H-4> :D
[22:10:43] <SWPadnos> if I play much, I'm usually the top covert ops on hh-ops
[22:10:49] <A-L-P-H-4> Civ I to IV, which one(s)?
[22:10:59] <SWPadnos> sometimes I'm best engineer as well
[22:11:09] <SWPadnos> Mostly Freeciv these days, in CIV2 mode
[22:11:18] <SWPadnos> I tried the loki version of Civ3, which sucked
[22:11:26] <SWPadnos> Alpha Centauri was great as well
[22:11:31] <A-L-P-H-4> AC was fun.
[22:11:35] <A-L-P-H-4> but the tech was a little lame.
[22:11:50] <A-L-P-H-4> I think I'll go find civ iv.
[22:11:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:12:09] <SWPadnos> freeciv is very good, but there are a couple of tweaks that would make it better
[22:12:30] <A-L-P-H-4> such as?
[22:12:41] <A-L-P-H-4> civ 2, wasted probably in total weeks of my life.
[22:12:48] <A-L-P-H-4> same with simcity 2.
[22:12:48] <SWPadnos> only weeks?
[22:13:12] <A-L-P-H-4> that's cummulative time... as in 24hrs x 7days x XX weeks of time
[22:13:20] <SWPadnos> there is a problem with the ruleset that makes it much better to ake tons of small cities that never grow beyond size 3 or so, rather than trying to make larger cities
[22:13:30] <SWPadnos> right - only weeks? ;)
[22:13:42] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.freeciv.org/index.php/Freeciv
[22:14:09] <A-L-P-H-4> bbiab...need a quick shower... sooo humid here. it's gross
[22:14:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:14:21] <SWPadnos> eeewwwww
[22:18:37] <A-L-P-H-4> figured out something better.
[22:18:44] <A-L-P-H-4> I'll hit the gym, and then shower there.
[22:18:49] <A-L-P-H-4> forces me to go to the gym.
[22:19:02] <A-L-P-H-4> plus eye candy. :)
[22:21:55] <SWPadnos> sweaty eye candy
[22:22:06] <A-L-P-H-4> like the sporty (not butch) girls.
[22:23:48] <A-L-P-H-4> SWPadnos, are there better tiles?
[22:23:51] <A-L-P-H-4> those tiles look eew.
[22:23:56] <A-L-P-H-4> for freeciv that is
[22:24:17] <A-L-P-H-4> oh, they aren't that bad.
[22:24:20] <SWPadnos> those are a special tileset. the standard ones look fine to me, but they aren't 3-d looking or anything (if that's what you like)
[22:24:29] <SWPadnos> I think they look great
[22:24:32] <A-L-P-H-4> http://www.freeciv.org/images/1/1d/Shot1.png
[22:24:37] <A-L-P-H-4> that's not bad to me at all
[22:24:51] <SWPadnos> nope - not bad at all
[22:25:24] <SWPadnos> one thing I like (that civ didn't do way back when) is that you can change the size of the window, and the amount of the world that gets displayed changes
[22:25:40] <SWPadnos> you see half the planet on a 1920x1200 monitor with the small tileset :)
[22:25:50] <A-L-P-H-4> cool.
[22:26:01] <A-L-P-H-4> I wonder will it span multiple monitors. :D
[22:26:07] <SWPadnos> though that's a very big world in that screenshot
[22:26:15] <SWPadnos> I believe it will ;)
[22:27:14] <A-L-P-H-4> where's the 2.1beta?
[22:27:16] <A-L-P-H-4> is it stable?
[22:27:37] <SWPadnos> dunno - I haven't played in at least 6 months
[22:27:57] <A-L-P-H-4> why not?
[22:27:59] <A-L-P-H-4> it's a classic.
[22:28:05] <A-L-P-H-4> did you do multiplayer too?
[22:28:13] <SWPadnos> nope
[22:51:08] <dmessier> woo hoo... wireless is workin'...
[22:51:31] <dmessier> in 2000 at leasts
[22:52:50] <dmessier> have to upgrade the pup... i love that distro... i thru around 8-10 on PEI...
[22:54:47] <A-L-P-H-4> SWPadnos, how do I attack a city?? I can't move onto that city, to attack it.
[22:56:42] <dmessier> im a miner... i'll always choose to go under it...been there done that..
[22:57:37] <dmessier> bullets tend to penetrate hard rock... LESS than air
[22:58:54] <A-L-P-H-4> so useful dmessier. :)
[23:00:16] <dmessier> mine 2 feet seen 8278 feet ... from the surface...to the bottom of a hole pumb to the earth's center of 0.750" 1/4 inc over a mile and a half straight DOWN..
[23:00:27] <jimfleig> hello, does anyone know how to edit the EMC2 User Manual.pdf? I am beginning to read it and would like to be able to insert my own notes.
[23:02:06] <cradek> it's generated from lyx files in the documents module of cvs
[23:02:22] <cradek> so just install lyx and have at it
[23:03:58] <jimfleig> Is that in the Synaptic Package Manager?
[23:05:13] <cradek> yes
[23:11:55] <jimfleig> Found it and am downloading. Thank you.
[23:12:11] <cradek> welcome
[23:14:18] <cradek> you can email me patches to commit to cvs, and if you want to do doc work on an ongoing basis, let me know, we'd all be very happy
[23:17:05] <jimfleig> I'm so green I'll probably make you laugh with my questions. What are "patches to commit to cvs"?
[23:17:34] <cradek> the lyx are "source" files just like the source to the program
[23:17:43] <cradek> cvs is the system we use to keep all our changes straight
[23:18:05] <cradek> so you'll get a cvs checkout to get the latest lyx files, and make some improvements
[23:18:32] <cradek> then you can send me just the "differences" which I'll put into cvs, then everyone will get the updates
[23:19:12] <cradek> I'm not an expert at how the documentation goes together (I think several lyx files combine to make the full user manual) but we'll figure it out
[23:19:26] <cradek> alex_joni and jmkasunich are more the doc experts
[23:19:33] <cradek> but I can help you with the cvs issues
[23:19:45] <jimfleig> thank you for the explanation
[23:19:54] <cradek> no problem, I hope it's a little clear
[23:20:27] <cradek> to do doc work you'll use a lot of the tools the programmers use, except you'll be working on lyx files, not C source files
[23:22:49] <jimfleig> the emc2 user manual is in .pdf format. Is there a .lyx version?
[23:23:04] <cradek> yes I think that big pdf is generated from several lyx files
[23:23:34] <jimfleig> where are the lyx files located?
[23:23:37] <cradek> pdfs aren't directly editable, they're sort of a "printed" file, purely output
[23:23:53] <cradek> in a cvs checkout, just one sec I'll get you the command to get them
[23:26:11] <cradek> cvs -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -P documents
[23:26:25] <cradek> you may have to install cvs if you don't have it already
[23:26:31] <cradek> then run that at the shell
[23:26:49] <cradek> you'll get a directory called "documents" with all the source files in it
[23:27:18] <cradek> then have a look at the documents/lyx/emc2 directory
[23:27:22] <cradek> I think all the current stuff is in there
[23:28:24] <cradek> I think Master_User.lyx includes some of the other lyx files to make one master document
[23:28:41] <cradek> I have to run, I'll help you later if you get stuck
[23:28:53] <jimfleig> a search for cvs in Synaptic Package Manager generates a list of programs, are all needed?
[23:28:57] <jimfleig> bye
[23:29:13] <cradek> no there should be a package called exactly "cvs"
[23:29:47] <jimfleig> got it, talk to you later
[23:39:16] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: I added a toggle button to vcp, would it be OK if I send you the file for review and if you are OK with it could you check it into CVS ?
[23:50:20] <jimfleig> any opinions on the processor speed and the memory requirements to have Ubuntu respond quicker?
[23:51:33] <jepler> I run Ubuntu on a laptop with 768 megs RAM, 1.5GHz Celeron processor, ATI video. The performance is good.
[23:51:40] <jepler> I don't use the Gnome desktop, though
[23:52:35] <jimfleig> well, I can see I have a way to go on the processor. I think I am at P3 800MHz.
[23:53:00] <jimfleig> where do you look up the specs on the system?
[23:54:29] <jepler> at the shell, "free -m" shows memory in megabytes, and "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows some information about the CPU
[23:54:41] <jepler> there may be some nice program for the desktop that does it, but I don't know what it's called
[23:57:22] <jepler> System > Administration > Device Manager, Applications > System Tools > System Monitor
[23:57:43] <jimfleig> well, I have a P3 701.644 MHz with 124 total Mem
[23:58:02] <jepler> additional memory would probably improve things
[23:58:03] <jimfleig> that's not very much Mem, is it?
[23:59:21] <Rugludallur> Fenn: you there ?
[23:59:21] <jepler> no, not by today's standards
[23:59:33] <jimfleig> the little bit I know about memory is that you can't just add it generally, it has to be matched to the system, correct?