#emc | Logs for 2006-07-16

[00:00:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni_away,
[00:08:13] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni_away, that long? woh
[00:10:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/rs274/glcanon.py: get rid of debugging statements
[00:10:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/rs274/glcanon.py: remove unused code
[00:29:22] <Jymmm> If i had a 1/2-12 nut welded to a 6" round plate, would "locking" it againest another nut be "good enough" to hold it in place on a bench grinder?
[00:30:00] <Jymmm> If not, suggestions are welcome =)
[00:59:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/ (axis.py emctop.py): first stab at supporting teleop mode
[00:59:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: first stab at supporting teleop mode
[07:26:26] <fogl> hello
[07:32:01] <fogl> i have one problem...i set the ini file to 5 axes (x,y,z,a,b), and i set the same [AXIS] configurtion for all axes...but when i jog these axes i get a "joint following error" only for z and b axes (axes x,y and a are ok). How is that possible?
[07:32:33] <fogl> what is wring?
[07:34:59] <fenn> your accelerations are too high?
[07:35:29] <fenn> or your base period is too large?
[07:36:08] <fenn> you should post your ini file to pastebin.com so we can have a look
[07:44:37] <fogl> http://pastebin.dyndns.org/308
[07:46:09] <fogl> it is strange, because i have the same settings for all axes and three of the work fine and two of them dont
[07:54:44] <fenn> you have 2 X axis entries
[07:56:15] <fenn> i doubt thats whats causing the problem but its something to try
[07:57:36] <Jymmm> Hey fenn
[07:57:54] <fenn> and your input_scale is -10???
[07:58:08] <fenn> that means negative 10 steps/mm
[07:58:09] <fogl> sorry, i paste the x axis twice...i dont have two xaxis sections in ini file
[07:58:52] <fogl> i was told i have to add a - sign there if i want to change the direction od movement
[07:59:26] <fogl> i was told i have to add a - sign there if i want to change the direction of movement
[07:59:35] <fenn> oh, right :) my bad
[08:03:59] <fogl> is it possible that the error is in .hal file?
[08:45:20] <robin_sz> jmkasunich, wiki pages added
[08:53:56] <fogl> about what?
[10:15:08] <giacus> hello
[10:15:14] <giacus> boys and girls :D
[10:37:28] <fogl> hello
[10:38:10] <fogl> is there an option to get the emergency stop input and machine power output on parallel port?
[11:19:42] <robin_sz> I thought it was there as standard ...
[11:20:00] <anonimasu> hm
[11:20:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is done with another ballnut moutn
[11:20:07] <anonimasu> mount
[11:20:20] <robin_sz> done as in made all nicely?
[11:20:26] <robin_sz> or doen as in borked?
[11:20:34] <anonimasu> it's made all nicely
[11:20:37] <robin_sz> nice
[11:20:47] <anonimasu> not as nice as I would have wanted but it's ------- and square
[11:20:52] <anonimasu> and all in line..
[11:21:19] <anonimasu> the tapped holes isnt in line but, that's the only bad thing.
[11:21:42] <robin_sz> you should have CNC'd it ;)
[11:21:42] <anonimasu> and they dont matter :)
[11:21:48] <anonimasu> heh yeah
[11:21:50] <anonimasu> on what machine
[11:22:22] <robin_sz> thats a bit like "who made the first lathe"
[11:23:21] <anonimasu> yep
[11:26:07] <anonimasu> I regret not making a cnc lathe first
[11:37:35] <fenn> * fenn considers bringing up "the foundations of mechanical accuracy" but reconsiders
[11:37:59] <anonimasu> fenn: why would you bring that up+
[11:38:36] <fenn> well.. believe it or not, you don't need a fully automated production facility just to make something
[11:38:52] <anonimasu> fenn: oh, I know that thanks ;)
[11:39:18] <anonimasu> but making stuff by hand takes roughly 5 times more time
[11:39:48] <anonimasu> not always true
[11:39:49] <anonimasu> :)
[11:39:50] <fenn> ah so that's where that factor of 5 comes into all my equations
[11:40:02] <anonimasu> lol
[11:40:03] <fenn> the "y" factor
[11:40:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:40:39] <anonimasu> I find it funny how much time I put into measuring
[11:41:10] <fenn> yeah especially for stuff that doesnt really matter as long as its close enough
[11:41:20] <fenn> but you have to measure it anyway
[11:41:48] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:42:01] <anonimasu> :)
[11:42:39] <fenn> * fenn goes to rest his eyes for about 12 hours
[11:42:56] <robin_sz> today, I have to mend the wides piginn car
[11:43:00] <robin_sz> sodding thing
[11:43:05] <robin_sz> wides?
[11:43:08] <robin_sz> wifes!
[11:44:16] <anonimasu> :)
[11:45:07] <robin_sz> shes not wide either ...
[11:45:10] <robin_sz> sub 50kg
[12:01:40] <Guest586> hi there. I have a question. I've tried to look at the asnwer everywhere, but can't really find any. What kind of feedback system does EMC2 atleast require? Does a simple step input suffice? or does it need to be a real place information?
[12:02:10] <robin_sz> for homing?
[12:03:05] <robin_sz> or for motion control with servos?
[12:03:20] <Guest586> for moving generally. it says in the faq that emc2 doesn't support open loop systems
[12:04:17] <jepler> emc2 supports stepper systems just fine, if that's what you mean by 'open loop'
[12:04:21] <Guest586> if i build a system from stepper motors, is it enough that i feed steps and direction back to emc?
[12:04:34] <anonimasu> you dont have to do that
[12:04:39] <Guest586> oh
[12:04:39] <anonimasu> stepgen has internal feedback
[12:04:47] <anonimasu> or whatever the module is called now :9
[12:04:49] <anonimasu> ^_^
[12:04:56] <Guest586> oh goodie
[12:05:00] <jepler> yes, "stepgen" is the one that turns position commands into step pulses
[12:05:11] <anonimasu> is it still stepgen with emc2?
[12:05:21] <Guest586> maybe the faq should be updated then
[12:05:28] <jepler> Guest586: which faq were you reading?
[12:05:45] <jepler> (here's a stepper system which works really well with emc2: http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc)
[12:06:37] <robin_sz> one thing I have often wondered is what the ratio is between stepper and servo EMC systems
[12:06:42] <Guest586> linuxcnc -> documentation -> hardware (there's only one question and it's about the open loop)
[12:06:52] <jepler> robin_sz:
[12:06:53] <jepler> oops
[12:08:09] <Guest586> oops, documentation -> frequently asked question -> hardware
[12:08:12] <jepler> Guest586: I found it.
[12:09:54] <jepler> now if only I could figure out how to edit it..
[12:10:27] <jepler> robin_sz: I think most hobbyists have stepper machines, and they probably outnumber servos by a healthy margin.
[12:10:41] <jepler> robin_sz: certainly all the users of "bad dos softwre" use steppers (though I guess some use step+direction servos instead)
[12:11:33] <robin_sz> jepler, click on "preferences" at the top
[12:11:47] <robin_sz> oh, wait, non-wiki
[12:11:59] <robin_sz> you'll have to do the Joomla thing then ;)
[12:12:23] <jepler> Guest586: oh -- I think the question is intended to mean "does emc2 work only on stepper systems?" and the answer is intended to mean, "no, it works with servos too"
[12:12:39] <robin_sz> indeed
[12:13:55] <les_w> hi jeff and robin
[12:14:40] <Guest586> well i don't know, but it made me wonder what exactly is required. I just want to build a little machine wihtout any expenssive servo systems, since i already have most of the stuff like steppers and controllers.
[12:16:13] <jepler> hi les
[12:17:06] <jepler> Guest586: you don't even need home or limit switches. You can "home" the machine by eye and then use conservative "soft limits" to stop travel before you reach the end of your leadscrew, for instance.
[12:17:48] <Guest586> good to know
[12:20:29] <jepler> Guest586: any other questions I can answer for you right now? I'm about to go have breakfast.
[12:20:44] <les_w> sounds like a plan...
[12:20:58] <Guest586> not at this moment, thank you. i think i can manage now
[12:21:30] <jepler> Guest586: come back any time with more questions.
[12:22:48] <Guest586> i will
[12:38:16] <Guest586> oh i have another question: does emc have some sort of live feed system, so i might possibly control it from another software? i was just mindstorming and thought that maybe i could connect it to a machine vision system and cook up something from that
[13:05:57] <robin_sz> machine vision would not be that hard to hook up ...
[13:09:27] <Guest586> good to know
[13:16:21] <Guest586> here's another real question: how can you use programs like skencil or inkscape with emc? i tried looking at the docs, but there doesn't seem to be a common filetype for them.
[13:16:54] <Guest586> do you know any converters that could be used?
[13:17:42] <jepler> Guest586: I haven't used it, but this program was recently announced: http://opencam.sourceforge.net/
[13:18:37] <jepler> I mostly do PCB milling, and I generate the g-code using the PCB software's built in programming language to do so.
[13:20:35] <Guest586> this is nice!
[13:21:25] <Guest586> these should be mentioned on emc pages.
[13:22:16] <Guest586> inkscape, skencil, qcad, opencam and whatever you can come up with.
[13:29:57] <Guest586> anyway, i have to go now, i'll come back if/when i have new questions of suggestions. thanks jepler.
[13:30:04] <Guest586> or
[14:31:00] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: you around?
[14:34:43] <jmkasunich> never mind, figured it out
[14:53:17] <robin_sz> yeah
[14:53:44] <jmkasunich> was looking at the wiki pages, and wanted to ask about line breaks in the sample g-code program (the wiki rendered it all on one line)
[14:54:00] <jmkasunich> but when I went into the editor, the breaks were there, so I stuck some <br> in to make it render right
[14:54:20] <jmkasunich> looks like a pretty good summary of the discussion
[14:58:37] <fogl> hello
[14:59:03] <fogl> can you tell me is there an option to get the emergency stop input and machine power output on parallel port?
[14:59:29] <jmkasunich> which version of EMC? 1, 2, or BDI?
[14:59:32] <fogl> 2
[14:59:35] <fogl> 2.0.1
[14:59:44] <jmkasunich> you can do that using HAL
[14:59:57] <jmkasunich> trying to think of an easy way to explain it...
[15:00:12] <fogl> where can i read more about this
[15:00:21] <fogl> except in pdf
[15:00:39] <jmkasunich> the main docs are in pdf form...
[15:01:06] <jmkasunich> the specifics you need are only a couple lines
[15:01:21] <jmkasunich> what config are you running?
[15:01:38] <jmkasunich> (I assume you copied one of the sample configs and started modifying that...)
[15:01:44] <fogl> yes
[15:01:53] <fogl> stepper-xyza
[15:01:58] <fogl> stepper-xyab
[15:02:23] <jmkasunich> xyab?
[15:02:40] <jmkasunich> I don't see that one
[15:03:04] <fogl> no
[15:03:09] <fogl> sorry...xyza
[15:04:55] <jmkasunich> hang on, I'm fighting with my computer :-(
[15:05:37] <fogl> ok
[15:09:48] <jmkasunich> ok, I'm running that config under 2.0.1 (finally... had to compile that version)
[15:09:55] <jmkasunich> lemme see now.....
[15:10:51] <jmkasunich> you want to have an external estop switch in addition to the one on the GUI, right?
[15:11:18] <fogl> yes
[15:11:38] <jmkasunich> so, we need to AND the internal one and the external one together
[15:12:37] <jmkasunich> there are a couple ways to do that... one way is to use a HAL AND gate, the other is to use ladder logic
[15:12:57] <jmkasunich> ladder is more flexible and capable, but kind of overkill for a single rung
[15:13:12] <jmkasunich> will you be adding any other custom logic to this machine later?
[15:13:32] <jmkasunich> if so we should probably use ladder, if not, we'll use the HAL and gate
[15:13:48] <fogl> no...except i would also like to turn it on with emc
[15:13:56] <jmkasunich> thats no problem...
[15:14:13] <jmkasunich> in fact, lets do that first, its simpler, and will give you an intro to the way the HAL stuff works
[15:14:22] <fogl> ok
[15:15:28] <jmkasunich> bear with me, I'm trying things here before I tell you to do them, so I don't lead you astray
[15:16:22] <jmkasunich> you already copied the sample config to a directory where you can edit it, right?
[15:16:42] <fogl> yes
[15:17:04] <jmkasunich> ok, go to that directory and open "standard_pinout.hal" with your favorite text editor
[15:17:16] <fogl> i did that
[15:17:26] <jmkasunich> see the block of 8 linksp commands?
[15:17:38] <jmkasunich> those connect the step and dir signals to your parport pins
[15:17:49] <jmkasunich> right below those commands, add the following:
[15:18:02] <jmkasunich> # create a signal for the machine enable
[15:18:08] <jmkasunich> newsig machine-enable bit
[15:18:16] <jmkasunich> # connect to EMC
[15:18:35] <jmkasunich> oops
[15:18:47] <jmkasunich> cancel that, there already is a suitable signal
[15:19:03] <fogl> ok
[15:19:18] <jmkasunich> ok, below the 8 linksp command, add:
[15:19:35] <jmkasunich> # bring the amp enable out to the parport
[15:20:09] <jmkasunich> linksp Xen parport.0.pin-01-out
[15:20:39] <jmkasunich> (you could also use pin 16 or 17)
[15:20:51] <fogl> ok...i did that
[15:21:04] <jmkasunich> thats all thats needed to get an enable signal to the parport
[15:21:25] <fogl> can you tell me something
[15:21:35] <jmkasunich> you should be able to start emc now, and if you put a meter on that pin, you'll see it go high when you turn the machine on, and low when its off
[15:21:38] <fogl> where can i get all this signals that are already aviliable
[15:21:55] <fogl> the list of these signals
[15:22:07] <jmkasunich> start emc, then open a shell, and type "halcmd show sig"
[15:22:29] <jmkasunich> the list is long, you'll have to scroll the shell window to see it all
[15:23:16] <jmkasunich> before the change we just made, Xen looked like this (when you do a show sig):
[15:23:18] <jmkasunich> bit FALSE Xen
[15:23:18] <jmkasunich> <== axis.0.amp-enable-out
[15:23:18] <jmkasunich> ==> stepgen.0.enable
[15:23:34] <jmkasunich> after the change, there will be an additional line like:
[15:23:43] <jmkasunich> ==> parport.0.pin-01-out
[15:23:58] <jmkasunich> oops, got the spacing wrong
[15:24:42] <jmkasunich> that means the signal is coming from axis.0.amp-enable-out, and going to stepgen.0.enable (and now to parport.0.pin-01-out as well)
[15:24:43] <fogl> the machine enable works fine!
[15:24:52] <jmkasunich> cool
[15:25:10] <jmkasunich> now the estop one
[15:25:16] <jmkasunich> thats a little more complicated
[15:25:29] <jmkasunich> if you look right below the lines you just added to the hal file, you'll see:
[15:25:34] <jmkasunich> # create a signal for the estop loopback
[15:25:34] <jmkasunich> linkpp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[15:25:56] <jmkasunich> iocontrol.0.user-enable-out is the output of the GUI estop button
[15:25:57] <fogl> i see
[15:26:10] <jmkasunich> iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in is the master estop input
[15:26:22] <jmkasunich> that line connects the GUI button directly to the EMC master estop
[15:26:48] <jmkasunich> but you want to combine _two_ inputs into the master estop, the one from the GUI and your external one
[15:27:00] <fogl> yes
[15:27:57] <jmkasunich> so, we need an and gate, or a ladder logic rung
[15:28:12] <jmkasunich> we'll use an and gate
[15:28:18] <fogl> ok
[15:29:04] <jmkasunich> open "stepper_xyza.hal" in your editor
[15:29:12] <jmkasunich> and go to line 48, which should be:
[15:29:18] <jmkasunich> loadrt blocks ddt=8
[15:29:39] <jmkasunich> that loads a HAL component called blocks, with all kinds of handy functional blocks inside it
[15:29:52] <jmkasunich> change the line to read:
[15:30:00] <jmkasunich> loadrt blocks ddt=8 and2=1
[15:30:34] <jmkasunich> that will load an and gate
[15:30:47] <jmkasunich> next we have to make sure the and gate code runs
[15:30:58] <jmkasunich> look down a few lines, you'll see a bunch of "addf" commands
[15:31:13] <jmkasunich> at the end of that group of addf lines, add a new line:
[15:31:21] <fogl> yust a moment
[15:31:32] <fogl> i cant find loadrt blocks
[15:32:06] <jmkasunich> is the first line of the file "# core HAL config file for steppers" ?
[15:32:44] <fogl> i see
[15:33:10] <jmkasunich> ?
[15:33:29] <fogl> yes
[15:33:34] <fogl> there is core hal
[15:34:18] <jmkasunich> the file is broken into chunks with blank lines between them...
[15:34:41] <jmkasunich> the first chunk starts with "# first load the core RT modules that will be needed"
[15:34:44] <jmkasunich> you see that?
[15:34:52] <jmkasunich> (I hope we have the same files...)
[15:35:12] <jmkasunich> next chunk starts with "# hook its functions to realtime threads"
[15:35:27] <fogl> yes...i have the same
[15:35:48] <jmkasunich> fifth chunk starts with "send the position commands thru differentiators to"
[15:36:05] <jmkasunich> 4th line in that chunk is "loadrt blocks ddt=8"
[15:36:08] <jmkasunich> found it?
[15:36:13] <fogl> i see it now
[15:36:30] <jmkasunich> ok, change that line to "loadrt ddt=8 and2=1"
[15:36:42] <fogl> ok...i did that
[15:36:54] <jmkasunich> right below that is 8 addf lines
[15:37:12] <jmkasunich> go to the end of those lines, and add a new line "addf and2.0 servo-thread"
[15:37:12] <fogl> yes
[15:37:49] <jmkasunich> ok, now we have an AND gate... next step is to hook it up
[15:38:07] <jmkasunich> save that file, and open "standard pinout.hal" again
[15:38:38] <jmkasunich> find the two lines that say:
[15:38:39] <jmkasunich> # create a signal for the estop loopback
[15:38:40] <jmkasunich> linkpp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[15:39:11] <jmkasunich> put a # in front of the "linkpp"
[15:39:43] <jmkasunich> (# means that line is a comment... we don't want it anymore since we're going to replace it with something else)
[15:39:58] <jmkasunich> ok?
[15:40:06] <fogl> yust a moment please
[15:40:43] <fogl> ok
[15:40:46] <fogl> i did that
[15:41:18] <jmkasunich> ok, below that, add these three lines:
[15:41:24] <jmkasunich> newsig user-estop bit
[15:41:24] <jmkasunich> newsig external-estop bit
[15:41:24] <jmkasunich> newsig master-estop bit
[15:42:11] <fogl> ok
[15:42:13] <jmkasunich> oh, I forgot to ask you a very important question...
[15:42:29] <jmkasunich> is your external estop switch momentary or maintained?
[15:42:30] <fogl> yes?
[15:42:53] <jmkasunich> momentary means it turns off when you push it, and on again as soon as you release it
[15:43:02] <fogl> i dont have a hardware yet
[15:43:14] <fogl> but i think it will be maintained
[15:43:29] <jmkasunich> maintained means it turns off when you push it, and stays off (pressed in) when you release it so you manually pull it out to turn it back on
[15:43:51] <fogl> i will use the second one
[15:44:04] <jmkasunich> ok, this setup is _only_ for maintained... if you have momentary, we need to do latching, which is really a job for ladder logic
[15:44:30] <jmkasunich> back to the file... we just added 3 new signals, now we need to connect them
[15:44:45] <jmkasunich> first the user one:
[15:44:59] <jmkasunich> linksp user-estop iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[15:45:19] <jmkasunich> linksp user-estop and2.0.in0
[15:45:38] <fogl> below the three new lines we added before?
[15:45:42] <jmkasunich> those two lines connect the GUI estop button to one input of the AND gate
[15:45:42] <jmkasunich> yes
[15:46:34] <jmkasunich> let me know when you are ready to go on
[15:47:01] <fogl> i am ready
[15:47:46] <jmkasunich> linksp external-estop parport.0.pin-11-in
[15:47:46] <jmkasunich> linksp external-estop and2.0.in1
[15:48:19] <jmkasunich> those two lines connect the parport pin 11 (you could also use 12, 13, or 15) to the other input of the AND gate
[15:48:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz scrolls up
[15:49:21] <fogl> to thi is it?
[15:49:23] <jmkasunich> let me know when you are ready to go on
[15:49:24] <fogl> to this is it?
[15:49:29] <jmkasunich> almost done
[15:49:30] <fogl> i am ready
[15:49:43] <jmkasunich> we need to hook the output of the AND gate to EMC's master estop input:
[15:49:49] <jmkasunich> linksp master-estop and2.0.out
[15:49:49] <jmkasunich> linksp master-estop iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[15:51:05] <fogl> ok...i did that
[15:51:17] <jmkasunich> ok... that should work
[15:51:37] <jmkasunich> does what we did make sense to you, or were you just following instructions?
[15:52:00] <fogl> i make sense to me
[15:52:17] <fogl> it make sense to me
[15:52:26] <jmkasunich> good - so if you want to make minor change later you understand how it works
[15:52:33] <jmkasunich> one thing you might need to change
[15:52:50] <jmkasunich> the way we configured it, the parport estop input is high to run, low to estop
[15:53:03] <jmkasunich> if you need the opposite (depends on how you wire your button), you change one line:
[15:53:23] <jmkasunich> change "linksp external-estop parport.0.pin-11-in" to "linksp external-estop parport.0.pin-11-in-not"
[15:53:52] <jmkasunich> the "-not" on the end inverts the hardware signal before it goes anywhere
[15:54:06] <fogl> ok.. i understand
[15:54:30] <jmkasunich> most parport pins float high when nothing is connected, so you can probably run it as it is right now, even with the button not connected
[15:55:08] <jmkasunich> if you short pin 11 to ground, you should get an estop, and when you release the short, it might come out of estop immediately, or you might have to click the GUI estop button
[15:57:55] <fogl> ok..thank you very mucyh!
[15:58:01] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[15:58:33] <robin_sz> would now be a good time to mention the "never relying on the controller to perform the estop" thing?
[15:58:43] <jmkasunich> maybe
[15:58:57] <robin_sz> actually, it may be a good wiki page too
[15:59:08] <jmkasunich> fogl: what kind of a machine is this? sherline or other micro-mill? medium? big?
[15:59:41] <fogl> this is home made for axis styrofoam hot wire cutter
[15:59:46] <fogl> this is home made four axis styrofoam hot wire cutter
[15:59:47] <jmkasunich> the bigger the machine, the more you need to have fail-safe estops
[16:00:01] <robin_sz> sounds fairly harmless
[16:00:09] <jmkasunich> since the estop we just did goes thru the computer, it is _not_ fail-safe
[16:00:37] <jmkasunich> but as robin says, it doesn't sound like you have the kind of machine that will injure you if it doesn't stop
[16:01:00] <jmkasunich> its always wise to remove power while your hands are in the working area though
[16:01:03] <fogl> so this is not a usual practice...is hould use hardware estop?
[16:01:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi
[16:01:34] <jmkasunich> on a larger machine, you would connect the external estop so it directly turns off the motor power
[16:01:53] <jmkasunich> (you would still want the stuff we just did, to ensure that EMC knows about the estop)
[16:01:59] <robin_sz> legally, in a "proper" machine, you are not allowed to rely on the computer for estop. in most countries anyway. for hobby stuff, well, its up to you.
[16:02:05] <robin_sz> exactly
[16:02:21] <fogl> ok...thank you guys!
[16:02:24] <robin_sz> emc should know about it ... and be able to command an estop
[16:03:11] <robin_sz> as an asside, I was looking at ABB robots .. it seems since '95, robots in .eu have had to have two seperate estop chains
[16:03:41] <jmkasunich> wow
[16:04:01] <robin_sz> taking no chances ...
[16:04:18] <jmkasunich> taking no chances means staying the fsck out of the work envelope ;-)
[16:04:26] <robin_sz> exactly ...
[16:04:43] <robin_sz> the one I was consdiering had its own "cell"
[16:04:54] <jmkasunich> and applying a lock to the main power disconnect when its neccessary to enter the work envelope
[16:05:12] <robin_sz> yeah, entry by castle keys
[16:05:21] <robin_sz> you have those in the US?
[16:05:43] <jmkasunich> dunno, it might be same thing by a different name
[16:05:49] <jmkasunich> what exactly is a castle key?
[16:06:04] <robin_sz> funny square box type key, with some sort of milled or raised letter or number in the middle
[16:06:44] <robin_sz> often used to interlock stuff
[16:07:15] <jmkasunich> http://www.mwart.com/images/p/Giftware_Giant_Castle_Key_93120_354.jpg ;-)
[16:07:24] <robin_sz> liek you cant open the door until youve unlocked it with the key, that you can only remove once youve switched off the main breaker ...
[16:08:21] <jmkasunich> ah
[16:08:38] <jmkasunich> over here its often called a "kirk key" system
[16:08:50] <jmkasunich> (they're a major maker)
[16:09:17] <robin_sz> right
[16:09:24] <jmkasunich> each key can fit two (or more) cylinders, and the keys are captive in the cylinder when the cylinder is in the "unsafe" position
[16:09:42] <jmkasunich> I specified such a system on some switchgear for our lab
[16:10:14] <jmkasunich> non-load-break rated tap switches on the 4160V primary of the transformer, interlocked with the isolating switch feeding the transformer
[16:11:18] <jmkasunich> the isolating switch was also non-load-break, but it was mechanically interlocked with the vacuum contactor in the same compartment
[16:11:59] <robin_sz> right
[16:12:17] <robin_sz> the ones over here use a milled out letter or number rather than pins
[16:12:23] <robin_sz> but same thing
[16:12:49] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/DSCF0186.JPG # two on the back door of the robot
[16:13:21] <robin_sz> doesnt make it any safer of course ...
[16:13:43] <robin_sz> it just means when you need to get close up and personal, you have to get someone to lock you in there with it :)
[16:13:49] <jmkasunich> heh
[16:14:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice clean machine eh?
[16:14:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ;)
[16:14:41] <robin_sz> well, it will clean up OK
[16:14:50] <robin_sz> clean enough for a welding bot anyway
[16:14:58] <jepler> since it's extensible in python, I couldn't help writing an export converter from skencil to ngc: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi/software/01153065922
[16:15:02] <jepler> too bad guestNNN is gone
[16:15:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> skencil?
[16:15:41] <robin_sz> Lerneaen_Hydra, and most importantly it was VERY cheap ... like, £5k
[16:15:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> robin_sz: nice!
[16:15:52] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: it's a 2d vector drawing program
[16:15:59] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: I don't like the name much, either
[16:16:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: ooh, so you'll be able to mill/draw along the lines?
[16:16:35] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes
[16:16:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice!
[16:17:19] <jepler> I hope it might be useful to someone
[16:17:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> sounds neat
[16:18:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm immediatly drawn to thinking about making a system like the one with a spray can and two motors ;)
[16:18:30] <jepler> hah
[16:18:49] <jepler> it's now easier than ever to write new kinematics modes
[16:19:18] <jmkasunich> heh, theres a neat non-triv kinematics machine out on the web somewhere.... two winches mounted at the top corners of a wall, and a spray can where the two cables connect.... auto-grafitti
[16:19:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh? updates?
[16:19:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jmkasunich: yep, that one
[16:19:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> do you know if that's EMC or something else?
[16:19:57] <jepler> well, now you can load different kinematics modes like hal modules, instead of having to link in a single kinematics module when building emc2
[16:20:03] <jmkasunich> its something else
[16:20:21] <jepler> (in HEAD)
[16:20:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: so no recompile?
[16:21:00] <jepler> right, no recompile just to change from one kinematics type to another
[16:21:06] <jepler> it's in the hal file
[16:21:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice!
[16:22:00] <robin_sz> jmkasunich, there was some german guy who made a "wand" with about 20 spray heads, you juststand on a platform and wait for a train to go past, pull the trigger, instant train graffiti
[16:22:14] <jmkasunich> lol
[16:22:39] <jmkasunich> I saw on the web a similar thing with about 7-8 heads, mounted on the tail end of a bicycle
[16:22:41] <jepler> very cute
[16:22:47] <robin_sz> hehe
[16:22:51] <jmkasunich> ride down the road printing
[16:23:02] <robin_sz> chalk dust?
[16:23:10] <jmkasunich> no, paint...
[16:23:16] <jmkasunich> I think it may have been water soluble
[16:23:31] <jepler> on a nuts & volts magazine I saw that Parallax (basic stamp people) sell an HP inkjet module that they suggested putting on a small robot to paint on whatever
[16:23:56] <jepler> http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/products/hpinkjetcontest/inkjetcontest.asp
[16:24:02] <robin_sz> heh, I still fancy building a HUGE printer one day
[16:24:21] <jmkasunich> how huge?
[16:24:28] <robin_sz> HUGE
[16:24:37] <robin_sz> like 10m +
[16:24:43] <robin_sz> maybe on chains
[16:24:47] <jmkasunich> 20mm machine gun, explosive shells, print on the nearest large cornfield?
[16:25:21] <robin_sz> did I show you the apache gunship footage?
[16:25:23] <jepler> I had a half-baked idea for target range targets with integrated inkjet printers
[16:25:39] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: yeah, saw that
[16:25:39] <jepler> you bring whatever digital images you like to the range, they print them to the targets, and you fire away...
[16:25:51] <jmkasunich> just don't hit the printer
[16:26:34] <robin_sz> OK, where is les?
[16:26:34] <jepler> yeah that's the trick
[16:26:47] <jepler> you have to put the printer somewhere safe and still get the printed target to feed out of it to where it needs to go
[16:27:18] <robin_sz> http://www.everettaero.com/
[16:27:22] <jmkasunich> for an indoor range, the whole thing needs to be able to move to the shooting line so you can see where the holes are...
[16:27:28] <robin_sz> click on "aeroplanes" then "harrier"
[16:27:47] <jmkasunich> which kind of defeats the purpose of the printer, you can just tape up a target printed with an ordinary printer
[16:28:08] <jepler> I told you it was a half-baked idea
[16:28:10] <robin_sz> those arent old harriers either, thats the FA2 model, built 97/98 ish I think
[16:31:40] <jmkasunich> on the topic of "printers", I have the mirror wheel assy from an old scanning infrared camera. one of these days I'd like to mix it with a laser pointer and a small micro and make a large one line display
[16:32:02] <jmkasunich> it has 10 or 12 mirrors (don't recall which), each of which is tilted a little
[16:32:15] <jmkasunich> so a single laser would give me 10/12 scan lines
[16:35:56] <jmkasunich> should be able to get 12x<couplehundred> pixels
[16:38:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that sounds like enough for a rudimentary "printer"
[16:39:07] <jmkasunich> now if I had one of robin's lasers, I could actually _print_ with it, instead of just displaying things temporarily
[16:44:36] <robin_sz> that or the mirror would melt
[16:45:02] <robin_sz> you know how they make pcbs these days?
[16:45:18] <jepler> do tell
[16:45:21] <jmkasunich> have to put the mirror at a place where the beam is defocused
[16:45:40] <jmkasunich> each mirror is about 25x25mm, front surface
[16:45:47] <robin_sz> you know how pcb making uses a UV sensitive coating?
[16:46:12] <robin_sz> and normally you align a film mask with the board, expost to UV light?
[16:46:13] <jmkasunich> ah, direct print to the coating, skip making the films?
[16:46:29] <robin_sz> exactly ... a big UV laser printer, flatbed style
[16:46:36] <robin_sz> but .. its clever ...
[16:46:55] <jepler> for short runs?
[16:46:58] <robin_sz> camera recognises index marks on the board,
[16:47:11] <robin_sz> jepler, even for large runs .. its the ways its going thses days
[16:47:32] <robin_sz> so, you just sling the board in and .. presto, it works out which way around it is and prints
[16:47:32] <jmkasunich> back later
[16:48:56] <robin_sz> apparently its finding big applications in priting onto those flexible film circuit/interconnect things ... as it can recognise marks when doing multilayer stiff and bend and stretch the printed image to follow the bent and stretched film thing
[16:57:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> nice!
[17:36:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi les
[18:08:56] <robin_sz> les_w, I have something for you ...
[18:09:50] <robin_sz> les_w, http://www.everettaero.com/zh806.html
[19:35:35] <Jymmm> Greeting from the Twilight Zone!
[19:46:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> greetings from the borkborkbork zone
[19:47:15] <Jymmm> lol
[19:47:24] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:47:28] <Jymmm> how goes it?
[19:47:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it goes well, a nice game of UT spoiled by latency, but good nonetheless
[19:48:18] <Jymmm> lol, I'm not a gamer so...
[19:48:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm not much of one either, but the occasional one is fine
[19:48:50] <anonimasu> I got a ballnut mount done today
[19:48:57] <anonimasu> going to mount servos tomorrow :)
[19:49:04] <Jymmm> cool beans
[19:49:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ooh, nice
[19:49:19] <Jymmm> oh, has anyone heard of 1/2-12 nut/thread?
[19:49:24] <anonimasu> no
[19:49:34] <Jymmm> could ti really be metric?
[19:49:40] <jmkasunich> what is it on?
[19:49:47] <jmkasunich> something chinese?
[19:49:52] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:49:52] <Jymmm> My craftsman bench grinder
[19:50:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no idea
[19:50:25] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, probably
[19:50:45] <cradek> that's sort of close to 2mm pitch
[19:50:51] <cradek> how sure are you that it's 12 tpi?
[19:50:58] <Jymmm> Sears want's $2.50 EACH nut
[19:51:03] <Jymmm> Yeah, hold on...
[19:51:25] <anonimasu> I have this thing with thread's that you can compare with
[19:51:31] <jmkasunich> there is your answer: by using a non-standard thread, Sears locks you into buying $2.50 nuts from them
[19:51:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ...vendor lock in...
[19:52:19] <Jymmm> http://www3.sears.com/ enter PN: OR90030
[19:53:13] <Jymmm> anyhow, that's what the manual says it is. I tried a 1/2" acme nut and it wouldn't fit.
[19:53:36] <les_w> hey jymmm
[19:53:42] <Jymmm> anonimasu, cool, drop it on by =)
[19:53:46] <Jymmm> howdy les
[19:53:59] <anonimasu> lol I think they are expensive
[19:55:21] <Jymmm> What I was thinking is getting another nut and having a 6" disc welded to it, so I can use it as a disc sander. But I'm not sure if locking it on againest another nut is "safe" enough.
[19:55:44] <Jymmm> right hand thread for this side of the grinder.
[19:57:48] <Jymmm> cradek, so something like 13 2 metric nut?
[19:58:19] <Jymmm> I get confused on the thread or metric nuts
[19:58:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> can someone verify what is seen when I exit? is it this? Lerneaen_Hydra has left freenode ("test")
[19:58:30] <anonimasu> hm
[19:58:33] <anonimasu> howcome?
[19:58:39] <anonimasu> it's 1,5 or 1,25
[19:58:41] <anonimasu> usually
[19:58:53] <Jymmm> anonimasu, was that 1.5mm or 1,5 mm
[19:58:59] <anonimasu> the pitch
[19:59:11] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:59:16] <Jymmm> ok 1/4-20 is 20 thread per inch.
[19:59:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> was that shown?
[19:59:24] <cradek> yes it said "test"
[19:59:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok, good. thanks
[19:59:43] <Jymmm> but what is 1,5
[20:00:03] <anonimasu> 1,5mm per rev.. I think
[20:00:36] <Jymmm> you keep saying 1comma5, is that really suppose to be 1decimal5 ?
[20:00:45] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:00:50] <Jymmm> ok =)
[20:00:52] <anonimasu> 1,5mm
[20:00:55] <anonimasu> or 1.5mm
[20:00:59] <Jymmm> Just making sure
[20:01:02] <anonimasu> it's the same ;)
[20:01:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> in sweden they've switched the , and .
[20:01:47] <Jymmm> Yeah, my HP clac does that too, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstaning metric threads is all.
[20:02:29] <anonimasu> the 1,25 looks very vey ||||
[20:02:30] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:02:40] <anonimasu> the 1,5mm is pretty spacy
[20:03:01] <Jymmm> ah, like the difference between 10-24 nd 10-32
[20:03:08] <Jymmm> s/nd/and/
[20:03:13] <anonimasu> yaeh
[20:03:15] <anonimasu> it's huge
[20:03:34] <anonimasu> most of the threads is 1,5
[20:03:41] <anonimasu> normal threads :)
[20:04:05] <anonimasu> the term for the 1,25 is "fine threaded"
[20:04:09] <anonimasu> or something like that
[20:04:11] <Jymmm> Now, is 1.5 the numbers of threads per mm? degree of pitch? something else?
[20:04:36] <jmkasunich> 1.5mm between threads
[20:04:44] <jmkasunich> 10 threads would be 15mm, etc
[20:04:51] <anonimasu> ah, thanks jmk
[20:04:51] <anonimasu> :)
[20:04:53] <jmkasunich> so 1.25 is a finer thread
[20:05:19] <Jymmm> that would me measuring P2P I assume?
[20:05:31] <jmkasunich> peak to peak, valley to valley, same thing
[20:05:36] <Jymmm> k
[20:05:43] <Jymmm> thanks jmkasunich
[20:05:48] <anonimasu> if it's 1,25mm it's funny
[20:05:55] <jmkasunich> metric threads are usually specified as M6x0.8, or M12x1.25, etc
[20:06:09] <anonimasu> very rarely used on anything
[20:06:10] <jmkasunich> M6 means 6mm major diameter, x0.8 means 0.8mm pitch
[20:06:20] <Jymmm> ok, so 1/2-12 would roughly me 12.7mm - ???
[20:06:39] <Jymmm> s/me/be/
[20:06:59] <jmkasunich> 1/2-12 = 1/2" major diameter, 12 threads per inch...
[20:07:10] <jmkasunich> so get out your calculator, and convert 1/12 of an inch into mm
[20:07:29] <Jymmm> Sorry, I mean converting the thread from in to metric
[20:07:56] <anonimasu> 2.11 that is
[20:07:56] <jmkasunich> I know
[20:08:06] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[20:08:26] <jmkasunich> so the metric equivalent of 1/2-12 would be M12.7x2.11 (not that there would ever be a metric thread like that)
[20:08:46] <Jymmm> Damn, what a funky thread
[20:08:55] <anonimasu> huge ;)
[20:09:22] <Jymmm> Yeah, it almost looks like an acme thread, but I have a 1/2" acme nut and it doesn't fit.
[20:09:38] <jmkasunich> 1/2" diameter acme, but what pitch?
[20:09:53] <jmkasunich> acme is just the shape, that doesn't specify the pitch
[20:10:04] <Jymmm> All the manual says is "HEX NUT 1/2 - 12"
[20:10:47] <Jymmm> and for the left side it says "LEFT HAND HEX NUT 1/2 - 12"
[20:10:55] <jmkasunich> ok, then thats what you need - 1/2 inch diameter, 12 threads per inch... the thread shape also needs to match, it might be triangular, or it might be acme, or it might even be square
[20:11:51] <Jymmm> I searched mcmaster, msc, google just for "1/2-12" and I I ever got returned that was anywhere close was "1 1/2-12"
[20:12:53] <jmkasunich> what is the thread form on the grinder shaft? triangular, or acme, or square? you can tell that just by looking
[20:13:22] <Jymmm> Gimme a few, I'll take/post a pic.
[20:13:51] <tomp> jymmm, are you wanting a nut for a leadscrew that you have? see graham stabler's notes on making his own by using the screw as a tap.
[20:14:37] <tomp> then it has to fit
[20:14:52] <jmkasunich> he wants a nut to fit the shaft of his bench grinder
[20:15:42] <tomp> then its not acme, just a tightenin device ( a nut), maybe left hand tho
[20:16:10] <jmkasunich> tomp: I've seen some fastening (non-leadscrew) nuts that have acme thread form
[20:17:06] <tomp> ok, i just never seen such. maybe the impression of acme is a not full thread?
[20:17:49] <tomp> ask manufacturer of grinder
[20:18:10] <anonimasu> heh
[20:18:12] <anonimasu> that's kind of hard
[20:18:58] <tomp> take a thread gauge to it , backlit & see what it is
[20:18:59] <jmkasunich> tomp: cheap ass made in china bench grinder
[20:19:34] <jmkasunich> sears probably told the chinese "make it 1/2-12 so our customers have to buy the nut from us"
[20:19:56] <anonimasu> and you cant re'thread it?
[20:20:07] <tomp> go to sears with a few hand tools ;-)
[20:20:12] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:21:34] <jmkasunich> jymmm: mcmaster will sell you a 1/2-12 tap for $25, you can make lots of nuts
[20:22:20] <anonimasu> LOL
[20:22:37] <tomp> goto library, find Machinery's Handbook, discover what you got
[20:26:30] <Jymmm> http://static.flickr.com/62/191050580_52734cedf4_b.jpg
[20:28:34] <tomp> a 6 inch scale in 100ths next to it might help
[20:28:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that looks like a normal thread with chopped off tops, right?
[20:29:08] <Jymmm> Well, from the tip to where it indents is exactly 1"
[20:30:22] <tomp> you count 10 threads in 1 inch?
[20:30:59] <jmkasunich> yeah, definitely triangular threads
[20:31:14] <anonimasu> wonder if they made them that way beacuse it's fast..
[20:31:29] <jmkasunich> what way?
[20:32:05] <tomp> fast = reduce od then tap faster
[20:35:15] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:37:01] <Jymmm> The nut isn't even 1/2" deep. Not enough meat left on it to weld a plate to
[20:37:20] <Jymmm> And I'd have to find someone with a welder to do it anyway.
[20:38:08] <jmkasunich> how do the grinding wheels fit? they slide on the smooth part of the shaft to the left of the threads, and stop against the larger rough turned part to the far left?
[20:39:09] <Jymmm> ok you see where the shatf gets tapered down; thats where these 3" steel discs sit againest, then the 6" grinding wheel, another steel plate, then the nut.
[20:39:49] <jmkasunich> so, replace the 6" grinding wheel with a 6" diameter steel disk with a hole in it
[20:40:26] <Jymmm> The problem is that the disc would not extend paste the outter guard shield.
[20:40:31] <Jymmm> s/paste/past/
[20:40:52] <jmkasunich> does the guard come off?
[20:41:40] <Jymmm> looks like it. But I also wanted to use as much of the 6" width as I could (above centerline of course)
[20:42:40] <Jymmm> If someone could turn the nut and weld a plate on, let me know how much =)
[20:43:27] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: K word should be in g20/g21 units
[20:50:49] <jepler> whee
[20:51:02] <Jymmm> HAHAHAHAHA
[20:51:11] <cradek> now the inch threading.ngc works on my mm lathe
[20:51:42] <Jymmm> I just installed this clock thing that chimes on the hour. JUST as it chimed, jepler said "Wheeeeeee"
[20:51:45] <jmkasunich> damn units
[20:52:22] <jepler> 15:59:57 <jepler> whee
[20:52:29] <jepler> Jymmm: your clock is fast
[20:52:42] <jmkasunich> or he has 3 seconds of lag
[20:52:42] <Jymmm> My clock is synced to NIST
[20:53:28] <Jymmm> well, it says 0% lag atm.
[20:53:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: that sounds like a very low-level fix. nobody using imperial units noticed that?
[20:54:08] <jmkasunich> lathe threading is pretty new... only a few people are using it at all
[20:54:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, right
[20:54:21] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: most people run programs in their machine's native units, so units bugs stay hidden
[20:54:23] <jmkasunich> if they're running inch programs on an inch machine they wouldn't see it
[20:54:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hopefully I'll get my encoders connected soon and play with it a bit
[20:54:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jmkasunich: so only when using mm on inch or vice versa?
[20:55:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, did you say that McMaster has a 1/2-12 tap with triangular threads?
[20:56:01] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes
[20:56:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok. an obscure case indeed
[20:58:35] <Jymmm> my bad... in the pic where the 3" plate goes is about 1/4" from the left of the image, not the center of the shaft .
[20:59:19] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: yes
[20:59:24] <jmkasunich> about $25
[20:59:36] <jmkasunich> seems a lot cheaper to buy the $2.50 sears nut
[21:00:24] <anonimasu> why not machine a new one=
[21:00:29] <anonimasu> the axle and all
[21:00:35] <jmkasunich> he has no lathe
[21:00:50] <jmkasunich> and the motor rotor is probably pressed onto the shaft
[21:00:55] <anonimasu> ah :S
[21:00:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you *can* turn stuff in a mill
[21:00:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> like cradek did
[21:01:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> not pretty though
[21:01:09] <anonimasu> that requires a stable spindle :9
[21:01:15] <anonimasu> dunno if routers will do that
[21:01:22] <jmkasunich> making a new shaft for a probably $30-50 grinder is just silly, unless you have absolutely no value for your own time
[21:01:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> doubtful, the rotational speed is too high
[21:01:39] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: lots of people build stepper drivers.. ;)
[21:02:11] <jmkasunich> building your own stepper driver is just silly, unless you have absolutely no value for your own time ;-)
[21:02:20] <anonimasu> agreed
[21:02:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha
[21:02:31] <anonimasu> though it might be for the fun of it too
[21:02:44] <jmkasunich> <insert typical hobby activity> is silly, unless you have absolutely no value for your own time ;-)
[21:02:46] <anonimasu> but, the argument that geckos/whatever are expensive is just silly
[21:03:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I do it for the education and that it's fun
[21:03:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anonimasu: they're not *that* cheap
[21:03:58] <jmkasunich> 1 gecko G202 = 20 hours at the US minimum wage
[21:04:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and the min. wage is...?
[21:04:34] <jmkasunich> maybe 4-6 hours or less at the wage of someone who has the experience/knowhow to build their own
[21:04:38] <Jymmm> pathetic
[21:04:40] <jmkasunich> $5.25/hour, IIRC
[21:04:51] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: if you are on minimum wage a hobby like cnc:ing is probably hard to have
[21:05:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh, the time in sweden would be quite a bit larger
[21:05:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> probably 2x
[21:05:19] <anonimasu> you get like 3 bolts for that ;)
[21:06:56] <Jymmm> Well shit... I'll have to find something like 3" thick material so I can counter sink the plate and/or nut
[21:07:05] <Jymmm> (plastic)
[21:07:12] <jmkasunich> if its gonna take someone 60-100 hours to earn the cash to buy 3 geckos, then it might make sense for them to try to build instead (assuming they can get the parts cheap, and live with the lower performance of a homemade drive)
[21:07:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyway, as I said, the reason I build drivers is for learning and becuase I enjoy it. for commercial stuff though geckos/other drivers is what you would do
[21:07:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:07:46] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: K word should be in g20/g21 units
[21:08:08] <jmkasunich> right
[21:08:11] <anonimasu> that's true
[21:08:26] <cradek> time vs money is different depending on where you live, what your job is, etc., it's silly to say someone is wrong for making his own tradeoff
[21:08:34] <jmkasunich> exactly
[21:09:17] <Jymmm> But, I can't be the ONLY one who's ever thought of buying a cheap grinder and converting it to a disc sander.
[21:09:19] <jmkasunich> but in Jymm's case, he's just trying to hook something to the end of the grinder shaft... making a whole new shaft _is_ silly
[21:09:25] <jmkasunich> especially since he doesn't have a lathe
[21:09:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> indeed
[21:09:42] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:10:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what about re-threading it to something standard?
[21:10:15] <cradek> if he had a lathe he'd have a 1/2-12 bolt already
[21:10:21] <cradek> err nut
[21:10:22] <anonimasu> :)
[21:10:36] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra, it's less than 1/2" already =)
[21:10:43] <anonimasu> *makes another mental note* *always build a cnc lathe first*
[21:10:56] <cradek> doesn't need to be cnc
[21:11:17] <anonimasu> yeah, but it's the thing I've been lacking the most in my conversions..
[21:11:18] <Jymmm> You REALLY don't want to ever hear that I have a lathe.
[21:11:27] <jmkasunich> why's that?
[21:11:31] <anonimasu> me?
[21:11:52] <jmkasunich> I was replying to Jymm
[21:11:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Jymmm: is ther a lot of load on it? would something like... uh.. outer thread diameter close to the innermost diameter now be sufficient?
[21:11:55] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, Casue the only usefullness of a lathe to me (for the most part) is gunsmithing =)
[21:11:56] <anonimasu> I end up re gearing the lathe for threading 6 times per hour
[21:12:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anonimasu: eugh.
[21:12:22] <cradek> oh no gearbox? then you do want cnc
[21:12:26] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: you just say that because you don't have a lathe
[21:12:37] <anonimasu> I have, but it'
[21:12:38] <anonimasu> it'
[21:12:43] <anonimasu> err it's limited enough..
[21:12:58] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, True, but If I was to buy a lathe, it be big enough to do long barrels.
[21:13:03] <anonimasu> between the slowest feed and threading I need to change 3 gears :)
[21:13:04] <jmkasunich> right
[21:13:32] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: and with a hole thru the spindle big enought to pass a barrel
[21:13:38] <anonimasu> ever since I learned to thread I've been threading lots of stuff
[21:13:41] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, exactly =)
[21:14:16] <cradek> anonimasu: I still use a tap or die whenever it's good enough
[21:14:27] <jmkasunich> I use taps whenever I can
[21:14:32] <jmkasunich> I don't think I have any dies
[21:14:33] <anonimasu> cradek: this is for ballnut mounts and stuff/spindle housings and things
[21:14:37] <Jymmm> * Jymmm resists the urge to lookup the specs/plans for a gatlin gun (sp)
[21:14:44] <anonimasu> has to be straight and square
[21:14:46] <jmkasunich> I usually design my way around male threads if I can
[21:14:46] <anonimasu> :)
[21:15:13] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: there are plans out there for a working scale model gatling gun in 0.22LR
[21:15:25] <anonimasu> tap's never do lol
[21:15:32] <anonimasu> that's hardly ever get straight enough for that
[21:15:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, Stop it.... you're killing me!!! .22lr are only $10 for 500 rds
[21:15:51] <anonimasu> and the dimensions like 35mm
[21:16:06] <anonimasu> cheap tap's ;)
[21:16:26] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: true, but the gun would set you back quite a bit, both in parts and time
[21:16:41] <jmkasunich> you'd need a real metal lathe, probably a mill, and you still buy quite a few parts
[21:16:48] <anonimasu> imagine at the firing range. taking one of thoose up ;)
[21:16:51] <jmkasunich> it uses stock .22 barrels, for example
[21:17:16] <jmkasunich> a hand-cranked gatling is _not_ considered a machine gun in the US, so its actually legal
[21:17:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> .22, is that .22 inches diameter?
[21:17:19] <jmkasunich> yes
[21:17:30] <jmkasunich> .22LR is about the cheapest ammo there is
[21:17:31] <anonimasu> I like thoose radar controlled ones from alien.
[21:17:37] <anonimasu> now that's cool stuff ;)
[21:17:45] <anonimasu> too bad it's just fantasy :P
[21:17:46] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, That's ok... it be unique enough that I'd enjoy making it. And potentially could just get my ATF permit and go from there.
[21:18:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> peh, puny little rounds. I prefer my rounds to be 1.05 and made of a starchy material ;)
[21:18:18] <anonimasu> Lerneaen_Hydra: corn?
[21:18:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> potato
[21:18:25] <anonimasu> ah :D
[21:18:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm aims his spud gun at Lerneaen_Hydra
[21:18:28] <jmkasunich> 1.05 what? inches?
[21:18:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes
[21:18:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> exit velocity of 200m/s
[21:19:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> 447 m/h
[21:19:07] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra, you ought to appreciate this then.... http://www.punkinchunkin.com/
[21:19:24] <Jymmm> it's an annual event
[21:19:53] <jmkasunich> http://www.machineguns.co.nz/Products.shtml
[21:19:57] <jmkasunich> bring lots of money
[21:20:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jmkasunich: sweet.
[21:22:09] <Jymmm> nice
[21:23:00] <Jymmm> when they say carriage, do they mean the wheels/stand ?
[21:23:06] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:23:09] <Jymmm> k
[21:23:31] <Jymmm> frikin shark mounted gatling gun!!!
[21:23:35] <Jymmm> =)
[21:24:11] <Jymmm> oh man... imagine taking that to the range!
[21:24:27] <anonimasu> yeah ;)
[21:24:50] <Jymmm> too bad the closest BLM to me is 200 miles away =(
[21:25:06] <anonimasu> blm?
[21:25:23] <jmkasunich> Bureau of Land Management
[21:25:33] <anonimasu> hm, I have no idea why that's badf
[21:25:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, it's what's left over of "public land" that the National Forest doens't want
[21:25:52] <jmkasunich> gov't agency that tends to have large chunks of empty space, suitable for shooting things
[21:26:10] <Jymmm> shooting/ exploding, etc - just dont damage anything
[21:26:14] <anonimasu> ah ok
[21:26:28] <jmkasunich> US cities (especially in California where Jymmm is) are very un-gun-friendly
[21:26:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm nods
[21:27:33] <jmkasunich> http://www.gatlingguns.net/
[21:27:37] <jmkasunich> plans for $60
[21:28:03] <jmkasunich> but it seems to take an experienced machinist a couple years to build it... not a weekend project
[21:28:40] <Jymmm> Brass??? http://www.gatlingguns.net/gallery.htm
[21:29:19] <jmkasunich> easier to machine, less likely to rust
[21:29:27] <jmkasunich> I'm sure they use steel where required for strength
[21:29:53] <Jymmm> Other than the cost, could you use nickle for a barrel?
[21:30:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ftp://basic:basic@lerneanhydra.shacknet.nu/shoot1.avi
[21:31:31] <Jymmm> my dns can't find ya
[21:31:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh
[21:31:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> right, I need to update dyndns
[21:32:23] <Jymmm> jmkasunich, I know shit about gunsmithing, but if I was setup, I'd learn as much as I could.
[21:32:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there
[21:32:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> test connecting now
[21:33:16] <Jymmm> nuttin yet, I'll give it a few minutes to propigate
[21:33:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, it propogated immediatly here
[21:34:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyway, use this instead then: ftp://basic:basic@
[21:34:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> don't tell me that's also broken...
[21:41:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyone there?
[21:42:06] <Jymmm> nope, tha't broken too =)
[21:42:08] <Jymmm> j/k
[21:42:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, goo
[21:42:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *good
[21:42:32] <Jymmm> you must have a 128 up connection
[21:42:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, now, I've got more
[21:43:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> however someone else using my line *glares* hasn't implemented a good traffic shaper, and constantly uses bandwidth
[21:43:22] <Jymmm> I've got 3M down, but it's transfering at about 16Kbps, now 19Kbps
[21:43:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I have 1024 up
[21:43:31] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[21:43:41] <anonimasu> too bad you cant limit download bandwidth
[21:43:44] <anonimasu> not effectively
[21:44:00] <anonimasu> as data comes at line rate
[21:44:15] <anonimasu> they should have implemented "PACE" packets years ago
[21:44:25] <Jymmm> Hmmm, files was corrupted, redl'ing
[21:44:29] <anonimasu> or something like it
[21:44:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the file is 60fps so you can slow it down a lot
[21:44:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, strange
[21:44:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it's an mjpeg codec
[21:44:49] <Jymmm> all traffic trottling is just dropping packets.
[21:44:57] <anonimasu> yep
[21:45:19] <anonimasu> if you want it to be effective drop them before they end up at your place
[21:45:25] <anonimasu> like at the isp or something
[21:48:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does it work better now?
[21:48:26] <Jymmm> Try #3, keeps saying ti can't complete the file.
[21:48:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> strange
[21:49:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:14 PM - basic (> SIZE /shoot1.avi
[21:49:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:14 PM - basic (> 213 2290626
[21:49:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:15 PM - basic (> MDTM /shoot1.avi
[21:49:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:15 PM - basic (> 213 20060716213906
[21:49:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:15 PM - basic (> RETR /shoot1.avi
[21:49:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:51:15 PM - basic (> 150 Connection accepted
[21:49:20] <Jymmm> down to 9KBs
[21:49:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (000001) 7/16/2006 23:53:06 PM - basic (> 226 Transfer OK
[21:50:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does it work for you others?
[21:51:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyone?
[21:52:12] <Jymmm> everyone is sleeping
[21:52:18] <anonimasu> night :)
[21:52:23] <Jymmm> see
[21:52:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[21:52:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> i see
[21:54:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> very well, it's time for me to retire too
[21:54:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> along with my fpt
[21:54:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> err.. ftp
[21:54:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> right. goodnight all
[21:54:38] <Jymmm> you killed ftp with 4s to go
[21:54:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what?
[21:55:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no, it's still up, at least according to the interface it is, and someone is DLing
[21:55:31] <Jymmm> weird, it froze at 4s left to go.
[21:55:34] <Jymmm> oh well
[21:56:24] <Jymmm> G'Night
[21:56:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> gnight
[21:56:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe get it from someone else
[22:03:54] <Jymmm> Hey, outbound US skype calls to US/CA are free thru 2006
[22:04:12] <Jymmm> and iirc free to UK thru tonight.
[22:04:30] <anonimasu> woohoo!
[22:05:21] <Jymmm> No,w THIS will be cool (if it lives up to it's expeectations)
[22:05:27] <anonimasu> ?
[22:05:32] <Jymmm> http://us.accessories.skype.com/direct/skypeusa/itemdetl.jsp?prod=3059
[22:06:05] <anonimasu> nice1
[22:06:07] <anonimasu> !
[22:06:15] <Jymmm> works on ANY wifi
[22:09:07] <Jymmm> http://us.accessories.skype.com/direct/skypeusa/itemdetl.jsp?prod=3071
[22:24:06] <tomp> i have really slow dload speed on new ubuntu 6.06, which is hooked to this computer with
[22:24:06] <tomp> 12.
[22:24:57] <tomp> and i dont see why its so slow, any ideas? a 3.7 meg dload is over 1 hr at 0.1kb on slow unit, & done in 35 sec on this one
[22:32:21] <tomp> the dload always starts ok, like i get a meg or so, then gets choked
[23:23:04] <jmkasunich> hello
[23:23:14] <jimfleig> Hi!
[23:23:26] <jimfleig> I am trying to simulate 5 axes.
[23:24:10] <jimfleig> I got the 5 axes to display on the screen but movements commanded to the 4th and 5th axes result in joint 3 and joint 4 errors.
[23:24:30] <jmkasunich> which sample config did you start with?
[23:24:34] <jimfleig> I am uning the Breezy Badger version on Ubuntu.
[23:24:49] <jimfleig> tkemc
[23:24:52] <jmkasunich> ok, thats emc2, the program
[23:25:04] <cradek> did you hook up feedback for those axes in the halfile?
[23:25:13] <jmkasunich> but when you start it, there is a menu with a bunch of configureations, which one did you pick
[23:25:24] <jmkasunich> cradek: thats where I was going, but I wanted to know where he started
[23:25:37] <cradek> heh ok
[23:25:46] <jimfleig> I am catching up with you. Hang on.
[23:25:55] <cradek> * cradek goes back to his pasta & pesto
[23:26:20] <jimfleig> tkemc is displayed at the top on the screen
[23:26:46] <jimfleig> tkemc is a choice for simulated display
[23:26:47] <jmkasunich> tkemc is one of the three available GUIs... that still doesn't tell me what config you are using
[23:27:26] <jmkasunich> have you edited _any_ configuration files (ini file or others?)
[23:27:47] <jimfleig> Yes. I think you are refering to the .ini file?
[23:27:58] <jimfleig> I can send the file I edited.
[23:28:11] <jmkasunich> I just want to know what directory that file is in
[23:28:24] <jimfleig> just a minute
[23:28:29] <jepler> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-07/nios-mac071406.php
[23:29:44] <jmkasunich> jepler: gad zooks... 1 second in 400 million years?
[23:31:08] <jimfleig> /etc/emc2/sample-configs/sim
[23:31:35] <cradek> 'Research groups around the world would first need to agree on an atom'
[23:31:48] <jmkasunich> ok, the first thing you're going to want to do is copy that entire directory to a place in your own home directory
[23:32:22] <jimfleig> ok, I'll bet a permissions error pops up when I try to do this
[23:32:23] <jmkasunich> (you don't normally have write access to things in /etc, which makes it hard to edit them... also, your changes might be overwritten later by newer versions of EMC
[23:35:07] <jmkasunich> I have to go for a little (maybe an hour)
[23:35:15] <jmkasunich> I'll try to help you out when I get back
[23:35:27] <jimfleig> thanks
[23:35:58] <robin_sz> Jymmm, just for info, no you coulrnt use brass or nickel for a barrel, you are looking at chamber pressures of 20 tonnes / sq inch or more .. so its 416 stainless or similar
[23:37:33] <jimfleig> Does anyone else have a guess why I am getting the joint 3 and joint 4 errors?
[23:38:02] <cradek> jimfleig: I can talk you through setting up a 5 axis system
[23:38:17] <Jymmm> robin_sz, Not bras, but was thinking a nickle alloy of some sort
[23:38:24] <jimfleig> thanks, where do we start?
[23:38:24] <Jymmm> not brass either =)
[23:39:07] <cradek> first let's copy stepper-xyza so we can edit it, I'll go through it with you a step at a time, I'll say what I type into my terminal and you can copy and paste it, or type the same
[23:39:44] <jimfleig> should the stepper xyza be copied to the home directory?
[23:39:55] <cradek> yes, here's how I did it:
[23:39:57] <cradek> mkdir -p ~/emc2/configs
[23:40:01] <cradek> cp -R /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper-xyza ~/emc2/configs
[23:40:37] <cradek> it's best to use exactly that path so the config picker will find it by default.
[23:40:50] <jimfleig> is there some way to copy and paste from the IRC window?
[23:41:08] <cradek> often you can highlight the text, then go to the other window and middle click to paste it
[23:42:12] <jimfleig> that worked great! done!
[23:42:16] <cradek> ok
[23:42:27] <cradek> now we need to edit a couple of those files
[23:42:32] <cradek> let's start with stepper_xyza.ini
[23:42:37] <jimfleig> ok
[23:42:46] <cradek> sorry it's called inch.ini
[23:43:49] <jimfleig> inch.ini is open
[23:44:08] <cradek> ok this is the one under emc2/configs/stepper_xyza in your home directory right?
[23:44:20] <jimfleig> correct
[23:44:30] <cradek> ok I'm at line 132 where it says AXES=4, change it to 5
[23:44:43] <cradek> also change COORDINATES = X Y Z A B
[23:45:09] <jimfleig> ok
[23:45:23] <cradek> now find [AXIS_3] section at line 230
[23:45:47] <cradek> copy that whole section (20 or so lines) and make a new section [AXIS_4] with the same contents
[23:45:52] <jimfleig> how can you tell which line number you are referencing?
[23:46:01] <cradek> line 230
[23:46:29] <jimfleig> I found the section but there are no line numbers displayed on my screen
[23:46:37] <cradek> oh
[23:46:45] <cradek> that depends what editor you are using, don't worry about it
[23:46:52] <cradek> (we are probably using different editors)
[23:47:06] <jimfleig> I see the line numbers in the lower right now. I am new at this.
[23:47:11] <cradek> ok no problem
[23:47:46] <jimfleig> the section is copied and pasted below the original
[23:47:59] <cradek> ok did you also change it so it says [AXIS_4]
[23:48:05] <jimfleig> yes
[23:48:12] <cradek> ok we're done with that file
[23:48:20] <cradek> save it and open stepper_xyza.hal
[23:48:21] <jimfleig> save and close?
[23:48:37] <cradek> yep
[23:49:39] <cradek> are you with me in stepper_xyza.hal now?
[23:49:40] <jimfleig> ok
[23:49:47] <jimfleig> yes
[23:49:57] <cradek> ok on line 7 it says loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0,0
[23:50:04] <cradek> add another ,0 to the end, so there are 5 of them
[23:50:23] <jimfleig> done
[23:50:23] <cradek> what we're doing now is hooking up a fifth stepper motor driver
[23:50:29] <jimfleig> ok
[23:50:47] <cradek> now there are a few sections below that have lines for XYZA, we want to add similar lines with B
[23:51:03] <cradek> the first is at line 26
[23:51:06] <jimfleig> should I do a find and replace?
[23:51:14] <cradek> copy those 3 lines and change A to B, and 3 to 4
[23:51:19] <cradek> no, because we need to add lines
[23:51:44] <cradek> newsig Bpos-cmd float
[23:51:44] <cradek> linksp Bpos-cmd <= axis.4.motor-pos-cmd
[23:51:44] <cradek> linksp Bpos-cmd => stepgen.4.position-cmd
[23:51:53] <cradek> so after the A lines you'll have these three new lines for B
[23:52:00] <jimfleig> this is my line 26: newsig Apos-cmd float
[23:52:09] <cradek> right
[23:52:23] <cradek> see how there are the same three lines for X,Y,Z,A
[23:52:33] <cradek> just add the three lines for B
[23:54:08] <jimfleig> I haven't found the X Y Z A line yet, I'm looking
[23:54:27] <cradek> ok hang on
[23:54:46] <cradek> starting at line 17 there are three lines for X, three lines for Y, three lines for Z, three lines for A
[23:55:09] <cradek> we just need to add the same three lines for B
[23:55:54] <jimfleig> ok, I'm doing that
[23:56:18] <jimfleig> 3 lines added
[23:56:31] <cradek> ok you changed A to B, and 3 to 4?
[23:56:40] <cradek> I mean in your three new lines
[23:56:51] <jimfleig> yes
[23:57:12] <cradek> ok go to the next block and do the same: it starts at line 44
[23:58:03] <jimfleig> done
[23:58:27] <cradek> ok let's skip ahead, you won't need this ddt stuff
[23:58:37] <cradek> so go down to the "connect enable signals for step generators"
[23:59:09] <cradek> for those three lines starting at "newsig Aen bit" do the same