#emc | Logs for 2006-07-10

[00:00:51] <giacus> Night all
[00:06:12] <les_w> hrm
[00:07:35] <fenn> indeed
[00:07:40] <les_w> haha
[00:07:53] <fenn> get anything accomplished in the last week?
[00:07:55] <jmkasunich> drip
[00:07:57] <les_w> just a quiet sunday evening
[00:08:25] <les_w> yeah fenn...the guys from corporate are visiting again this week I think
[00:08:32] <jmkasunich> I really have to find a better way to break sharp edges
[00:08:48] <les_w> want to do that linux RTAI factory automation
[00:09:03] <les_w> tumbler, jmk
[00:09:19] <jmkasunich> 1/2" x 4" x 21" aluminum
[00:09:29] <les_w> oh.
[00:09:29] <jmkasunich> sawcut then milled to final length
[00:09:35] <jmkasunich> don't want em all bashed up
[00:09:41] <les_w> file.
[00:09:50] <jmkasunich> yeah, thats what I been doing
[00:09:57] <les_w> slow huh
[00:10:00] <jmkasunich> 22 pieces, 4 edges per end
[00:10:14] <les_w> aluminum is goo for sure.
[00:10:16] <jmkasunich> filing takes significantly longer than the milling
[00:10:18] <fenn> slave boy
[00:10:32] <jmkasunich> (especially since I'm stacking anywhere from 4 to 8 pieces to mill)
[00:10:39] <fenn> having a proper "lathe cut" file helps some
[00:10:44] <les_w> I am getting some beta titanium tommorrow
[00:10:52] <les_w> should be fun to machine
[00:10:52] <jmkasunich> I'm using a single cut
[00:11:09] <les_w> yeah single cut draw filing is the best
[00:11:30] <les_w> but slow.
[00:12:01] <jmkasunich> I'me getting nice results, but at 10-20 strokes per edge, plus a few to break the corners it adds up
[00:12:34] <jmkasunich> lemme see.... 12 pieces with two ends milled, 4 with 3 edges milled, 6 with 4 edges milled
[00:12:48] <les_w> depending on the app, a dip in phosphoric works too
[00:12:57] <les_w> actually PNA
[00:13:07] <fenn> les what's the titanium for?
[00:13:07] <les_w> phosphoric/nitric/acetic
[00:13:12] <jepler> jmkasunich: thanks for finishing the cleanup of my changes
[00:13:17] <jmkasunich> thats 60 milling passes, * 4 edges = 240 edges to be broken
[00:13:23] <jmkasunich> jepler: you're welcome
[00:13:33] <jmkasunich> it was something to do between filing
[00:13:54] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich needs a belt sander or something
[00:13:55] <les_w> the beta titanium is for diaphragms for the finger burner. It is fatigue cracking 1100 aluminum.
[00:14:07] <fenn> wow
[00:14:27] <jmkasunich> aluminim... the maternail that has _no_ lower fatigue limit
[00:14:34] <les_w> well 100 is weak. as little as 8000 psi yeild in H0 temper.
[00:14:44] <les_w> 1100 I mean
[00:15:00] <fenn> well anything will fatigue if you go past its elastic limit
[00:15:13] <fenn> aluminum isnt the most elastic material every
[00:15:16] <fenn> ever*
[00:15:21] <les_w> it is essentially pure aluminum
[00:15:28] <les_w> foil, cans, etc
[00:15:33] <jmkasunich> right, but many (most?) metals have some lower level of stress, if you stay below it, fatigue life is infinite
[00:15:53] <les_w> usually that is about 10% of yield
[00:15:55] <jmkasunich> aluminum does not.... _any_ alternating stress will eventually lead to a fatigue failure
[00:15:57] <les_w> depending
[00:16:29] <jmkasunich> of course if you stay low enough, "eventually" can be 100 years..., but it will happen
[00:16:39] <les_w> hey, jmk...I fly aluminum airplanes in turbulence...don't scare me!
[00:16:54] <jmkasunich> its all about design lifetime
[00:16:56] <fenn> jmkasunich: does that apply to the alloys too or just pure al?
[00:17:09] <jmkasunich> remember aloha airlines flight something-or-other?
[00:17:19] <les_w> well the aircraft I fly are usually 2024
[00:17:31] <jmkasunich> fenn: not sure... if I was doing something that mattered I'd have to do more research
[00:17:34] <les_w> the skin is anyway
[00:18:22] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
[00:18:36] <les_w> gulp
[00:19:02] <jmkasunich> NTSB: " metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion"
[00:19:39] <jmkasunich> the plane had 89,000 pressurization cycles, 2nd highest of any 737 at the time
[00:20:00] <les_w> well I had rapid fatigue failure in PZT sensors. The impedance analyzer showed me it was the aluminum diaphragm and an epoxy bond that failed.
[00:20:39] <les_w> So I have the Devcon guys working on the epoxy
[00:20:54] <les_w> and 6061 and beta titanium for the metal.
[00:21:43] <jmkasunich> what I find amazing about that accident was that they landed the plane in one piece, and only one person died
[00:22:24] <les_w> If I don't stop this failure mechanism there won't be any linux factory automation...cause there won't be a product!
[00:22:38] <les_w> yeah jmk I saw the movie
[00:22:41] <les_w> amazing
[00:23:39] <jmkasunich> well, back to milling and filing :-(
[00:23:41] <les_w> fly boeing if you are not wearing a parachute!
[00:24:12] <les_w> enjoy your deburring...one of the small pleasures of life
[00:24:54] <Twingy> * Twingy will not be releasing a prerelease of gcam tonight due to a massive gui change
[00:26:11] <Twingy> * Twingy is also pushing the release from august to september
[00:27:52] <les_w> I have to have a business plan that includes software releases....scary
[00:28:40] <les_w> at least for me.
[00:30:40] <les_w> twingy have a gant chart for that gui change?
[00:30:46] <les_w> haha
[00:35:43] <les_w> oh well, I think i'll retire to the music room. Also I have Clausen kosher pickle clones to try to make. Lots of cucumbers picked fromthe garden today.
[00:37:09] <fenn> hint don't cook them
[00:37:22] <les_w> heh
[00:37:34] <fenn> many a pickle has been spoiled that way
[00:38:21] <les_w> real kosher pickles have no vinegar and are not cooked
[00:38:40] <les_w> but I am alittle scared of that
[00:38:54] <les_w> fermenting, lactic acid, and all that
[00:39:00] <fenn> they will keep if you refrigerate them
[00:39:04] <les_w> yeah
[00:39:38] <fenn> or add a little citric acid
[00:39:46] <les_w> I planted too many pickle cucumbers.
[00:40:02] <les_w> I guess I will end up with a couple hundred pounds.
[00:40:24] <les_w> give away?
[00:40:28] <fenn> our chickens have been laying eggs
[00:40:33] <les_w> cool
[00:40:45] <fenn> a couple hundred pounds? sounds like you planted a whole field
[00:41:29] <les_w> nah, just a liitle plot...but it is all organic on 100% 2 year old composted cow manure
[00:41:32] <les_w> 5 tons
[00:41:38] <les_w> plants are exploding
[00:43:13] <les_w> can it or give it away I figure
[00:45:37] <les_w> Also continuing to research getting off the fossil fuel tit with computer controled wood burning boilers
[00:46:01] <les_w> home plus shop heating was $1000/mo last winter
[00:46:12] <les_w> that's just crazy.
[00:46:24] <fenn> yep thats more than i spend all year
[00:47:00] <les_w> well, 12,000 lb of wood in the rack so far....
[00:47:32] <LawrenceG> hi les.... how about freeze drying your cukes and using them for firewood?
[00:47:40] <les_w> really researched those outdoor wood boilers
[00:47:46] <les_w> haha hi lawrence
[00:47:58] <LawrenceG> yea... I always wanted to build one
[00:48:08] <les_w> most of the outdoor boilers are inefficient junk....beweare
[00:48:22] <les_w> beware?.....
[00:48:24] <les_w> haha
[00:48:44] <les_w> most have less than 20 % efficiency
[00:49:02] <LawrenceG> I was looking at one that contained a large sand heat storage capacity to be able to coast through the night... one big fire a day...
[00:49:10] <les_w> and smoke like crazy
[00:49:30] <les_w> or a big water tank
[00:49:39] <LawrenceG> then I got into the idea of used oil..... motor or cooking.... much easier to handle than logs
[00:50:14] <les_w> I am going to pull the trigger on something soon though...I have alloted $10k for it
[00:50:28] <les_w> 1000?mo is just crazy
[00:50:51] <fenn> $10k for a furnace?
[00:51:01] <les_w> But I admit it is mostly an emotional response
[00:51:04] <fenn> you have too much money to burn
[00:51:25] <les_w> fenn average outdoor wood boiler is about $8k
[00:51:48] <LawrenceG> you have lots of property..... what is the ground like.... would a ground source heat pump be useful there or does the frost go too deep?
[00:51:58] <les_w> pellet stoves are the best...but there are no pellets.
[00:52:11] <fenn> heh wood fired steam engine heat pump
[00:52:30] <les_w> Heat pumps are viable...but I figure electricity will go sky high too and stay that way
[00:52:36] <fenn> he lives in georgia, it doesnt even get cold there
[00:52:40] <fenn> stop being a wuss les
[00:52:52] <les_w> below zero sometimes...
[00:52:59] <les_w> I'm in the mountains
[00:53:28] <les_w> It's colder here than where lawrence lives in canada
[00:54:42] <les_w> living in drafty old farm house does not help
[00:54:45] <LawrenceG> yea... I have been in Atlanta during jan/feb and forze my aXX off
[00:55:04] <les_w> but I do have "free" unlimited wood supply
[00:55:51] <les_w> Atlanta is a few thousand feet below me and much warmer....
[00:55:55] <LawrenceG> maybe a cnc tree processor that cuts everything into cubes.... easier to dry and move
[00:55:56] <les_w> 2250 ft
[00:56:18] <les_w> well the pellet stove thing is wild
[00:56:28] <fenn> turns sawdust into chunks?
[00:56:41] <les_w> sales were so great that there is months waiting lists for the pellet fuel
[00:56:58] <les_w> yeah fenn sawdust
[00:57:35] <LawrenceG> pellets are expensive here.... about $150 for a cord equivalent
[00:57:35] <les_w> and due to supply and demand, the cost is almost as much as oil.
[00:57:49] <fenn> silly
[00:58:04] <les_w> it was $200+ here...until the supply ran out
[00:58:13] <les_w> now it is unobtainium
[00:58:18] <fenn> they should pellet-ize farm waste
[00:58:55] <les_w> too bad...because pellets are great....almost a liquid fuel like oil
[00:59:19] <les_w> I looked into making them
[00:59:30] <les_w> the machines are very expensive.
[00:59:58] <fenn> because they put out 50 tons an hour
[01:00:09] <LawrenceG> I though briquet size chunks would be nice for a bigger furnace....
[01:00:36] <les_w> chunks that size would be very viable
[01:00:53] <les_w> many in the midwest are using corn
[01:00:56] <LawrenceG> full size presto logs take too long to cool during the manufacturing process
[01:01:49] <les_w> I have read that a profitable pellet operation rquires the better part of a million dollars in cap equip
[01:02:06] <les_w> all that might change
[01:02:15] <LawrenceG> to make presto logs, one needs enough pressure to heat the material to about 450f.... cant let the pressure off until its cool or the internal steam will blow up the log
[01:02:45] <les_w> local "micro scale" pellet manufacture is being looked at
[01:02:54] <les_w> so far there is nothing
[01:03:17] <fenn> i like the spirit of it but realistically thats the sort of thing best done in a huge factory
[01:03:28] <les_w> But I can't see why it couldn't be done
[01:03:42] <les_w> yes huge factory
[01:03:56] <les_w> but then it will just be oil
[01:03:58] <LawrenceG> the large scale hog fuel boilers work ok if there is lots of wood waste available
[01:03:58] <fenn> too complicated for the small operator to make it efficient
[01:04:18] <fenn> but if efficiency doesnt matter then sure
[01:04:23] <les_w> fenn, yes, at least now.
[01:05:49] <les_w> For me, It's an emotional response. I can afford $1000 or $2000/mo or whatever it is to heat the home and shop really.
[01:05:57] <les_w> I just don't like it
[01:06:22] <les_w> I don't like getting ripped, whether I have the money or not.
[01:06:34] <fenn> have you considered passive solar design in your new shop layout?
[01:06:59] <les_w> CPA would say just shut up and pay it and run your business
[01:07:08] <fenn> it would be really sexy though
[01:07:18] <les_w> brb phone
[01:08:01] <jmkasunich> 6 more pieces done, only 8 left
[01:08:18] <LawrenceG> up here we are having a huge problem with pine beetles killing all the pine trees... about 1/3 of the province is dead already.... that is one big pile of firewood
[01:09:22] <fenn> * fenn wonders which timber company released all the pine beetles :)
[01:10:38] <LawrenceG> yea... they cant cut it fast enough..... I suspect most of it will burn in forest fires
[01:11:07] <fenn> that is good
[01:11:14] <jmkasunich> ?
[01:11:58] <jmkasunich> fenn has a strange definition of good
[01:12:11] <fenn> its not the lack of trees that destroys forest ecosystems as much as destruction of the topsoil by bulldozers
[01:12:47] <fenn> if the trees burn then the timber companies have no incentive to go bulldoze everything
[01:13:03] <jmkasunich> a fire burning thru a forest of standing dead wood is a lot hotter than one burning underbrush around live, green trees
[01:13:12] <jmkasunich> liable to toast the soil
[01:13:31] <fenn> i dont know
[01:13:55] <jmkasunich> I bet the beetle makes the trees worthless as lumber anyway
[01:14:33] <jmkasunich> which is unfortunate if you believe in global warming
[01:14:47] <LawrenceG> after about 4 years, the wood has no commercial value
[01:15:02] <LawrenceG> too dry and stained to make lumber
[01:15:22] <jmkasunich> building houses with wood sequesters the carbon for many years (life of the house), burning it, either for firewood, or in a forest fire, puts the carbon right back into circulation
[01:16:02] <LawrenceG> burning BC should make the global warming crowd go nuts:-P
[01:16:52] <jmkasunich> some of 'em already are... I really don't know what to believe on that issue
[01:17:18] <LawrenceG> they are concerned about cow farts..... personally I like beans
[01:17:23] <fenn> all i know is the weather's been mighty weird the last 5 or 6 years
[01:17:49] <fenn> 70 degrees in january two years in a row
[01:19:33] <LawrenceG> in the 60's there was serious concern we were heading into another ice age.... but it has been warm lately... thats part of the beetle problem... it takes several weeks at -40 to kill them in the forest... that hasnt happened lately
[01:22:29] <LawrenceG> our italian connections seem to offline celebrating!
[01:42:10] <les_w> sorry i missed the discussion
[01:42:26] <les_w> my 99 year old grandma called.
[01:43:43] <les_w> hey.... burning wood is atmospheric carbon neutral....if you don't burn it it will rot , oxidize, and make the same c02 anyway...
[01:48:18] <les_w> I think sequestering carbon in a house for a hundred years is in the noise compared to sequestering it 300 million years as fossil fuel, right?
[01:49:02] <les_w> I just want off that fossil fuel tit.
[01:49:29] <les_w> It's gonna get crazy unles coal or nuclear is allowed again.
[01:50:47] <les_w> Not that either are the answer....
[01:51:09] <fenn> not that it matters if we blow everything up in the next century
[01:51:27] <les_w> heh
[01:51:46] <jmkasunich> coal is the worst possible thing as far as carbon goes
[01:51:53] <les_w> well yes
[01:52:11] <les_w> buty I'll bet it will be used when the oil goes
[01:52:22] <jmkasunich> nuclear
[01:52:34] <les_w> I'll go wood. Which is solar energy.
[01:52:50] <fenn> oil won't just disappear overnight, it will just get more and more expensive until it settles out
[01:53:14] <jmkasunich> wood is fine on an individual basis, but it doesn't scale to run a society on it
[01:53:15] <fenn> (until something else becomes economical)
[01:53:26] <les_w> And i'll prob freeze my ass of while I load 1000+ lbs a week into stoves...
[01:53:29] <les_w> heh
[01:53:46] <fenn> space colonies dammit!
[01:53:51] <les_w> ha
[01:54:41] <les_w> all this bit and 1 kW/meter^2 shines on us...
[01:55:01] <les_w> well not today...here...let's see
[01:55:19] <fenn> you have a solar radiometer? :D
[01:55:32] <fenn> oh.. you do
[01:55:51] <les_w> yes
[01:55:54] <les_w> http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GATG&report=gt
[01:56:05] <les_w> only about 400w average
[01:56:18] <les_w> that station is in sight of the house
[01:56:42] <les_w> it was cloudy today
[01:56:51] <fenn> interesting windspeed graph
[01:57:28] <les_w> yeah
[01:57:39] <les_w> that's in the vinyard across the street
[01:57:55] <les_w> vineyard
[01:58:02] <les_w> cool too
[01:58:17] <les_w> in the 50"s in the morning this far south
[01:59:44] <les_w> I think the grape vines shade the wind a bit and give false readings
[02:01:22] <les_w> good sleeping nights though
[02:01:28] <les_w> no ac needed
[02:03:00] <jmkasunich> well, I'm going to be off on another stupid seminar this week... might as well sign off
[02:22:02] <Twingy> is EMC's capabilities beyond that of TurboCNC?
[02:22:43] <fenn> yep emc has blending and hal and kinematics and can do real servo control
[02:22:56] <fenn> the blending is really obvious with lofted surfaces in turbocad
[02:23:00] <fenn> er, turbocnc
[02:23:12] <fenn> the lack of blending i should say
[02:25:12] <Twingy> what is the 3d visualization for
[02:25:29] <fenn> checking the accuracy of the gcode
[02:25:45] <fenn> its really annoying to run wrong gcode
[02:25:51] <Twingy> I have a simulation function
[02:26:02] <Twingy> takes a voxelized stock material and processes gcode through it
[02:26:18] <fenn> cool.. does it use opengl to render the voxels?
[02:26:20] <Twingy> yours appears triangulated?
[02:26:22] <Twingy> yes, opengl
[02:26:36] <fenn> axis uses opengl line primitives i think
[02:27:04] <Twingy> I chose voxels because the amount of dynamically modified geometry is unpredictable
[02:27:24] <fenn> would be really nice to be able to use your visualization with emc
[02:27:30] <Twingy> with voxels you can clamp how much memory will be consumed
[02:27:41] <Twingy> I would actually like to integrate the two to some degree
[02:28:20] <Twingy> we can start out by passing gcode from my app to emc
[02:29:00] <fenn> there are two different data sets that come out of emc.. what it intends to do and what actually happens at the machine
[02:29:23] <fenn> what emc intends to do (the canonical commands) is much easier to access than the raw data coming back from servo encoders
[02:30:04] <Twingy> I'm not sure that is necessary
[02:30:11] <Twingy> mine app simply parses gcode
[02:30:27] <fenn> yeah it probably isnt necessary.. if it messed up you can just look at the part and see that it messed up :)
[02:30:48] <Twingy> I find the simulation aspect of gcam to be good for debugging to make sure the gcode I'm producing is correct
[02:32:19] <fenn> can you subtract the result of the machining op from the intended part to get the error introduced by the cam algorithm?
[02:32:22] <Twingy> I will have to try dumping it on an avail partition on my cnc computer
[02:32:54] <fenn> like a finer stepover will have less error for example
[02:32:58] <Twingy> that's too low level for now
[02:33:12] <Twingy> while my xylotex steppers are 0.0003125" accurate
[02:33:21] <Twingy> nothing I do involves that level of accuracy
[02:33:25] <fenn> no, stepover is the amount the endmill takes off per pass
[02:33:46] <Twingy> ah, those calculates are heuristics you tune per mill
[02:33:50] <Twingy> *calculations
[02:34:00] <Twingy> I have a table for my taig + xylotex
[02:34:37] <Twingy> as more people begin using gcam I intend to include peoples settings
[02:34:58] <Twingy> part of the new project process will involve assigning a mill to it
[02:35:01] <fenn> for roughing it's based on the rigidity of the mill and how much HP you are pushing through the bit, but for finishing the stepover has more to do with the desired surface finish vs how long you are willing to wait
[02:35:34] <Twingy> yes, that's something that will be available in the preferences menu
[02:36:09] <fenn> have you considered how to figure out what is a circular hole?
[02:36:11] <Twingy> right now it's a function of end mill diameter and material being cut
[02:36:22] <fenn> like, which ones to drill and which to mill
[02:36:36] <Twingy> yes, that's done
[02:37:06] <Twingy> polyline, bezier, circle/arc, grouping, templates, and factories will be part of v1.0.0
[02:37:21] <Twingy> boring for closed graphs
[02:37:43] <fenn> "boring for closed graphs"?
[02:37:55] <Twingy> once the closed graph is done you would extrude down for depth
[02:38:18] <fenn> what does the graph represent?
[02:38:25] <Twingy> once you have a continuous graph of objects you can choose to bore instead of cut
[02:38:41] <Twingy> a collection of control points from heterogeneous primitives
[02:39:08] <fenn> ok.. what is really... interesting... is how to get those primitives out of a dxf file
[02:39:37] <Twingy> i.e. one might make a "blob" consisting of a polyline, bezier curve, and circle arc that form a closed circuit
[02:39:53] <Twingy> the user then extrudes that linearly or nonlinearly down
[02:40:01] <Twingy> for either boring or cutting that object out
[02:40:05] <fenn> oh you are talking about 2d stuff
[02:40:13] <Twingy> 2.5D
[02:40:19] <fenn> say you have a triangulated mesh of a block with a hole in it
[02:40:31] <fenn> this hole happens to be aligned with the Z axis
[02:40:35] <Twingy> triangulated meshes pose a real headache
[02:40:39] <fenn> yeah
[02:40:45] <Twingy> I'm not sure I will support those just yet
[02:41:24] <Twingy> from an enduser perspective it seems like an ellegant feature, but the user does not know what the limitations of the machine are when modeling erroneous geometry
[02:41:54] <fenn> its not terribly elegant, but it's highly practical
[02:41:54] <Twingy> the machine could either skip that part of the geometry, try and reach it while messing up other parts of it, or simply do nothing
[02:42:06] <fenn> because then you can use pretty much any modeling program to cad your parts with
[02:42:24] <Twingy> yes, but that geometry doesn't come with any setup or constraints
[02:42:38] <Twingy> whether you'll be using a 4th axis for example
[02:42:43] <Twingy> where 0,0 is on the geometry
[02:42:51] <Twingy> whether there are divits that are smaller than the end mill
[02:43:05] <fenn> this is stuff the cam program has to figure out
[02:43:09] <Twingy> the user throws a dragon sculpture at it, all kind of headaches occur
[02:43:27] <Twingy> that's where I disagree
[02:43:28] <fenn> or else you need to use an exchange format that includes that data
[02:43:55] <Twingy> I think that any geometry editor should include the constraints of the machine when editing the object
[02:44:06] <fenn> lots of common geometry is impossible to machine with a given tool
[02:44:30] <fenn> a square corner is impossible to make with a ball end mill for instance
[02:44:37] <Twingy> if somone desires to load up a pro-engineer model in gcam, I'll let them code in that module
[02:44:47] <fenn> whee
[02:45:06] <Twingy> I provide the basic tools necessary to generate many common parts
[02:45:15] <fenn> yes and thank you for doing that
[02:45:20] <Twingy> rocket nozzles, motor mounts, bolt holes, gears, etc
[02:45:58] <Twingy> It's not worth my time to take a piece of arbitrary geometry and figure out how to "Best" handle it
[02:46:56] <Twingy> if somone has a solid works or proengineer model that takes them "too long" to model in gcam then they can write a converter
[02:47:38] <Twingy> the alternative is to have proengineer or solidworks export gcode
[02:47:46] <Twingy> and go straight to emc
[02:47:58] <fenn> i have been reading a lot about STEP and STEP-NC lately
[02:48:55] <fenn> it is a metric fuckton of work to implement a step library, but once done it opens up a lot of different areas that have been sorely lacking in open source
[02:50:30] <fenn> at least that's the line i use to try to motivate myself
[02:53:33] <fenn> oooo there is already a lisp implementation of the ISO express language
[02:54:14] <fenn> that chops half a fuckton off the amount of work to do
[02:54:16] <Twingy> Before I release v1.0.0 we should coordinate on our "resources" pages to link one another
[02:55:04] <fenn> there is a CAM section under "using emc2"
[02:55:11] <Twingy> * Twingy checks
[03:06:53] <fenn> there
[12:46:33] <giacus> Good Morning!
[12:50:40] <alex_joni> morning
[12:51:51] <giacus> hello alex_joni :)
[12:51:55] <^Eugenics> morning!?
[12:52:15] <alex_joni> 8am in the US
[12:52:23] <^Eugenics> Hi guys
[12:52:34] <giacus> hello ^Eugenics
[12:53:03] <^Eugenics> let's apadt GMT ;)
[12:53:46] <^Eugenics> giacus: did you piecees to you robot arrive yet?
[12:54:54] <giacus> I got the Bluethoot module, and few other parts but got no time in these days to try it
[12:55:20] <giacus> 2 box of parts waiting on the desk .. hehe
[12:55:32] <^Eugenics> nice.
[12:55:58] <giacus> I hope to find the time the next weekend
[12:57:16] <giacus> I would also update my home page with latest sport news ;)
[12:59:58] <giacus> at this point, the IT team deserve a small piece of space on my website :D
[13:00:28] <giacus> got a fantastic fest all night
[13:01:26] <giacus> how proceed the jobs there ?
[13:09:07] <^Eugenics> I'm finghting... giacus: I think you irc statistics web site should be mentioned in the #emc topic
[13:09:15] <^Eugenics> What do you think?
[13:10:03] <giacus> maybe ..
[13:10:09] <giacus> it doenst depend on me
[13:10:40] <jepler> the topic is already very long
[13:10:40] <giacus> as I sayd yestarday, I believe in the power of a Team
[13:10:54] <giacus> but its ok, np
[13:11:28] <giacus> I'm entusiast for hiw itay won the world cup
[13:11:36] <giacus> how*
[13:11:54] <giacus> because that is the real meant of a good team
[13:12:06] <giacus> no stars on the team, but the team won
[13:12:17] <giacus> that's the secret of open source
[13:12:37] <giacus> and my personal point of view
[13:13:12] <giacus> nobody have seen Grosso before yestarday ..
[13:13:33] <giacus> He was playng in serie C until some year ago !
[13:13:43] <giacus> ando so many others.. that's incredible
[13:14:03] <giacus> great Lippi ! is a BRAIN !!
[13:14:44] <giacus> he got the success of a United Team
[13:19:02] <giacus> the hardest thing to get
[13:19:11] <giacus> for a captain
[13:19:28] <^Eugenics> how is the italian fotball scandal coming along?
[13:19:46] <giacus> well, at this point something could change
[13:20:03] <giacus> Buffon will play the next season in serie B, cannavaro too ..
[13:20:11] <^Eugenics> do milan and the others get kicked out of the series?
[13:20:16] <giacus> at least 8 players in serie B I think ..
[13:20:31] <giacus> milan ? probably yes ..
[13:20:53] <giacus> that scandal was another reason to win the world cup
[13:21:05] <^Eugenics> boring for all fans to find out that the matches are rigged.
[13:21:08] <giacus> that give they the fuel
[13:21:21] <giacus> I'm a Juventus fan
[13:21:27] <giacus> also Zidane fan
[13:21:45] <giacus> to win a final is really a great thing
[13:22:06] <giacus> it can help the ecobomy for the entire country
[13:22:15] <^Eugenics> I a fal of pepole who try to be invironmentaly friendly :)
[13:22:19] <giacus> it doesnt seems, but it is.
[13:22:25] <giacus> economy*
[13:22:30] <^Eugenics> I'm a fan!
[13:22:40] <giacus> hehe
[13:22:44] <^Eugenics> :)
[13:23:25] <giacus> weird, but you can win when nobody believe in you
[13:23:37] <giacus> that's the world today..
[13:25:26] <giacus> so, the only important thing is to believe in what everybody do.
[13:25:41] <giacus> to win.
[13:27:28] <giacus> the good brain isnt enough if the heart is far away
[13:42:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads home
[14:01:38] <Rugludallur> Does anyone know a place to buy turkite lead nuts for < $500 ?
[14:06:06] <^Eugenics> what is it, or what are they used for?
[14:12:24] <Rugludallur> it is used for high precision lead screws
[14:12:35] <Rugludallur> http://www.dallur.com/fileadmin/user_upload/100_4761.jpg
[14:12:35] <Rugludallur> http://www.dallur.com/fileadmin/user_upload/100_4767.jpg
[14:13:02] <Rugludallur> it's the orange thing
[14:13:20] <Rugludallur> The only replacement I can get is $450
[14:15:56] <^Eugenics> hefty price!
[14:16:28] <Rugludallur> Yup, I paid $100 for the slide on Ebay and it was damaged during transit
[14:21:26] <anonimasu> Rugludallur: what do they do?
[14:26:35] <les_w> rugludallur can you machine the nuts if you have the material?
[14:27:36] <les_w> you can also cast your own with moglice....
[14:27:41] <les_w> or similar
[14:30:58] <Dallur> bahh my internet is crap
[14:31:07] <Dallur> les_w
[14:31:32] <Dallur> I have thought about that, I won't reach the same level of accuracy but at least I will have something to work with
[14:31:39] <Dallur> les_w: hmm moglice ......
[14:32:59] <jepler> (60 inch / minute) * (4000 edge/rev * 3 rev / mm) = 304.8 kHz
[14:33:26] <jepler> cradek: I think the polling rate of the divider was around 400kHz
[14:33:43] <cradek> I better keep it to 60ipm max then
[14:33:57] <cradek> are you sure it was 4000 edge?
[14:34:01] <jepler> no, I don't remember
[14:34:04] <jepler> I thought it was 1000PPR
[14:34:05] <jepler> or maybe 1024
[14:34:14] <jepler> I also don't know what pulley ratio you ended up with
[14:34:21] <cradek> 3:1
[14:34:29] <jepler> 304 / 16 = 19khz divided quadrature rate
[14:35:14] <cradek> I have an input scale of 375 in this ini file I was using
[14:35:57] <jepler> 375 edges per mm?
[14:36:10] <cradek> yeah I guess
[14:36:15] <cradek> no that's after the divider
[14:36:36] <cradek> so the encoders are 500 line
[14:36:48] <cradek> I think
[14:37:05] <cradek> 375 * 16 / 3 / 4
[14:37:19] <jepler> ok, so it's 150kHz at 60ipm
[14:37:48] <jepler> did I mention that I updated the table generator to support divisors that are not power-of-two?
[14:37:58] <cradek> yes, that's very cool
[14:38:07] <cradek> iirc it's 16 now, and maybe it would be better at 8
[14:38:18] <cradek> we'll have to do the math again after it's working
[14:38:18] <jepler> you might be able to go as low as 6 .. 150 kHz / 6 is 25kHz
[14:40:05] <cradek> so there's lots and lots of headroom in the dividers, that's nice
[14:40:21] <jepler> yeah I guess
[14:40:57] <cradek> seems incredible that it's possible after seeing how fast those motors turn and how little the lines on the encoders are
[14:41:26] <cradek> the whole scheme just seems so unlikely
[14:42:58] <Dallur> les_w: Do you know of any website from which you can order moglice directly ?
[14:43:35] <jepler> 24V 2.4A, $25 shipped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120005663713
[14:44:15] <cradek> pretty sure I need >= 3A
[14:45:05] <cradek> but that looks nice, fairly small
[14:45:35] <alex_joni> cradek: you need to see some 2500 ones
[14:46:17] <jepler> 24V 4.5A switching: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270005022351
[14:46:33] <alex_joni> cradek: there are even 15000 counts/rev encoders
[14:46:42] <alex_joni> as in 60000 transitions
[14:47:20] <jepler> yeah that's nuts
[14:47:29] <jepler> not for software counting
[14:48:18] <alex_joni> jepler: not really ;)
[14:48:35] <alex_joni> but a 2MHz counting chip, can easily take care of that
[14:48:45] <cradek> surplus sales in omaha has 24v/3.6a linear for $55
[14:48:59] <alex_joni> linear?
[14:49:05] <cradek> yes
[14:49:17] <cradek> http://www.surplussales.com/PowerSupplies/PowerS-4.html
[14:49:38] <cradek> "Sola"
[14:50:08] <cradek> with gas $70
[14:50:24] <jepler> maybe having it shipped is cheaper
[14:51:33] <alex_joni> what's a 24V/3.6a linear?
[14:51:44] <cradek> linear power supply means not switching
[14:51:48] <jepler> Sola Silver Line Power Supply
[14:51:49] <jepler> 24 vdc / 3.6 amps
[14:52:08] <alex_joni> I didn't see the power supply in your text
[14:52:16] <cradek> ah
[14:53:01] <alex_joni> thought it's a linear motor :D
[15:42:54] <Bo^Dick> does anyone know stuff about analouge scale units? are they supposed to be linear in the operation? are they voltage controlled or current controlled etc.
[15:43:01] <Bo^Dick> it looks like this: http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/scale.jpg
[15:44:51] <alex_joni> giacus: around?
[15:45:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: AFAIK they are linear over voltage applied
[15:48:21] <Bo^Dick> Lerneaen_Hydra: i found out that it gave 15 units (full scale) when 0.22 volts was applied but 10 units when 0.11 volts was applied
[15:48:34] <giacus> alex_joni: I'm
[15:51:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: eugh. hmm.
[15:52:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Bo^Dick: sounds like sampling and calibration time then...
[15:52:49] <cradek> with what did you measure the .11 and .22 volts? maybe it's just wrong
[16:00:13] <Rugludallur> les_w: I think I will try to cast my own nut, thanks alot for the tip :D
[16:07:16] <Rugludallur> Rugludallur is now known as Dallur
[17:08:56] <alex_joni> you probably know this: http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm
[19:18:53] <CIA-9> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: allow sending some additional nml messages
[19:19:24] <CIA-9> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/TODO: notes about support for nontrivins
[19:27:47] <^Eugenics> Anyone know a good way of trasporting a pallet from UK to France with pallet pickup?
[19:54:16] <les_w> Dallur in the US moglice can be obtained from here:
[19:54:20] <les_w> http://www.moglice.com/newsite/frames/historyframe.html
[19:54:52] <les_w> A division of my company, ITW philidelphia resins also made a similar material
[19:55:08] <les_w> but I don't think they are distributing it anymore
[19:55:18] <les_w> or.....
[19:56:40] <les_w> you can gather up some epoxy resin, molybdenum disulfide powder, teflon powder, etc and mix up your own!
[20:12:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> g'night
[20:33:32] <K4ts> hello
[20:34:19] <ValarQ> hiya
[21:06:54] <A-L-P-H-A> ohla
[21:07:18] <jepler> there was a power outage, but cvs.linuxcnc.org should soon be finished rebooting.
[21:07:37] <cradek> welcome back and thanks
[21:07:37] <alex_joni> jepler: coo
[21:07:48] <alex_joni> thanks (for rushing home earlier)
[21:07:53] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, hey... UPS?
[21:08:03] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: there is one, but it didn't last.
[21:08:05] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[21:08:07] <A-L-P-H-A> that long?
[21:08:09] <A-L-P-H-A> shibby
[21:08:13] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: donations accepted :D
[21:08:14] <cradek> they never seem to last long enough
[21:08:17] <jepler> I'm not sure how long it was, but "long enough"
[21:08:22] <alex_joni> I bet jepler wouldn't ming a bigger UPS
[21:08:26] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, where can I mail pennies?
[21:08:28] <alex_joni> mind
[21:08:32] <A-L-P-H-A> can you mail coins?
[21:08:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni passes A-L-P-H-A jepler's addy
[21:08:46] <alex_joni> try to scan & email them
[21:08:58] <jepler> it's strange -- in the last month there have been two outages long enough to run down the UPS. Usually, it's once a year or less.
[21:09:37] <A-L-P-H-A> dun tink dial scan on the sheet feed scanner.
[21:10:12] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, I usually have brownouts... (powers on/off/on) just a cycle.
[21:13:17] <A-L-P-H-A> just usually from storms.
[21:13:25] <jepler> yeah that's the kind of thing we get here too
[21:13:36] <jepler> have to reset the digital clocks and the microwave
[21:14:22] <alex_joni> jepler: still booting?
[21:14:47] <jepler> alex_joni: no, it should be working now. isn't it?
[21:15:32] <alex_joni> oh, slow connection here.. it seems to be working
[21:15:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I had a long enough brown out... but something else happened, that cause my system to reboot.
[21:16:00] <A-L-P-H-A> caused
[21:16:01] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: you pushed the reset button?
[21:16:15] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[21:16:39] <jepler> $ time cvs -q update
[21:16:44] <jepler> real0m4.664s
[21:16:49] <jepler> perfectly fast from here!
[21:17:39] <alex_joni> I'm doing a rather large cvs diff
[21:18:13] <A-L-P-H-A> fun. exciting.
[21:18:32] <alex_joni> jepler: and if you would toss the end of a FO cable, it would probably be faster
[21:18:52] <alex_joni> not that big after all (40k diff)
[21:18:53] <A-L-P-H-A> toss a fibre optic cable where?
[21:18:57] <alex_joni> to here
[21:19:00] <alex_joni> one end
[21:19:05] <alex_joni> and keep the other
[21:19:12] <A-L-P-H-A> uhuh...
[21:19:20] <A-L-P-H-A> does cutting it in half work? :)
[21:25:29] <alex_joni> flood away
[21:25:31] <A-L-P-H-A> any new builds of EMC past 2.0.1?
[21:26:37] <alex_joni> not yet
[21:26:45] <alex_joni> I mean, no release builds
[21:26:50] <alex_joni> there are some testing releases
[21:27:47] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/ (emc.cc emc.hh): (log message trimmed)
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> Moved spindle control into the motion controller.
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> Motion currently exports the same HAL pins that iocontrol
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> used to export. They are commanded using EMCMOT_* commands.
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> This is preparing work for further improvement
[21:30:06] <CIA-9> (like constant surface speed machining, etc).
[21:30:08] <CIA-9> All GUI's need to update and get spindle relevant
[21:30:13] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.hal: (log message trimmed)
[21:30:14] <CIA-9> Moved spindle control into the motion controller.
[21:30:17] <CIA-9> Motion currently exports the same HAL pins that iocontrol
[21:30:18] <CIA-9> used to export. They are commanded using EMCMOT_* commands.
[21:30:21] <CIA-9> This is preparing work for further improvement
[21:30:22] <CIA-9> (like constant surface speed machining, etc).
[21:30:24] <CIA-9> All GUI's need to update and get spindle relevant
[21:30:28] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/max/max.hal: (log message trimmed)
[21:30:30] <CIA-9> Moved spindle control into the motion controller.
[21:30:32] <CIA-9> Motion currently exports the same HAL pins that iocontrol
[21:30:35] <CIA-9> used to export. They are commanded using EMCMOT_* commands.
[21:30:36] <CIA-9> This is preparing work for further improvement
[21:30:38] <CIA-9> (like constant surface speed machining, etc).
[21:30:40] <CIA-9> All GUI's need to update and get spindle relevant
[21:30:46] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (sim_pinout.hal standard_pinout.hal): (log message trimmed)
[21:30:48] <CIA-9> Moved spindle control into the motion controller.
[21:30:50] <CIA-9> Motion currently exports the same HAL pins that iocontrol
[21:30:52] <CIA-9> used to export. They are commanded using EMCMOT_* commands.
[21:30:54] <CIA-9> This is preparing work for further improvement
[21:30:56] <CIA-9> (like constant surface speed machining, etc).
[21:31:00] <CIA-9> All GUI's need to update and get spindle relevant
[21:31:02] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.hal: (log message trimmed)
[21:31:04] <CIA-9> Moved spindle control into the motion controller.
[21:31:06] <CIA-9> Motion currently exports the same HAL pins that iocontrol
[21:31:08] <CIA-9> used to export. They are commanded using EMCMOT_* commands.
[21:31:10] <CIA-9> This is preparing work for further improvement
[21:31:12] <CIA-9> (like constant surface speed machining, etc).
[21:31:18] <CIA-9> All GUI's need to update and get spindle relevant
[21:31:20] <CIA-9> (91 lines omitted)
[21:31:51] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc: spindle now in motion, not iocontrol anymore
[21:35:08] <CIA-9> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: fix io.spindle vs motion.spindle (hopefully in a backwards-compat way)
[21:43:13] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone know sed well?
[21:43:24] <A-L-P-H-A> can I search/replace something at the EOF? End of file?
[21:46:04] <giacus> I'd ask to him
[21:46:13] <giacus> sed__: still there ?
[21:46:17] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus. hush you.
[21:46:18] <giacus> :D
[21:46:26] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: the address "$" (as opposed to the regular expression character "$") matches the last line of the file
[21:46:45] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: but maybe you just want 'cat >>' or 'echo >>' ?
[21:46:47] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, how do I use that?
[21:46:54] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, no.... not exactly.
[21:46:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm doing this.
[21:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> sec
[21:47:16] <A-L-P-H-A> pastebin.
[21:47:32] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: cat >> (appends to a file), and cat > (rewrites the file)
[21:47:44] <jepler> this writes 'test' after the last line of the output: sed '$atest'
[21:47:47] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/84399
[21:47:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I know what >> and > and < do.
[21:48:09] <A-L-P-H-A> what happens is my output ends up being ALMOST correct.
[21:48:16] <A-L-P-H-A> except for the last line in the sql statement.
[21:48:26] <A-L-P-H-A> there I want the LAST "," to be a ";" instead.
[21:48:47] <jepler> maybe you want '$s/,$/;/' ?
[21:49:04] <jepler> on the last line, change ',' at the end of the line to ';'
[21:49:37] <A-L-P-H-A> SWEET!
[21:49:46] <jepler> pleased I could help
[21:49:53] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler++
[21:49:59] <A-L-P-H-A> we need a karma bot in here. :D
[21:50:14] <jepler> bbl
[21:50:57] <alex_joni> http://forum.deviantart.com/galleries/photography/625326/ <- a nice thread
[22:02:28] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, those comments, are artsies that are stroking their own members.
[22:03:23] <alex_joni> I only read the first couple of them
[22:04:07] <A-L-P-H-A> but yeah, simple answer. There is no BEST camera... just best for the job. best for the price. etc. etc.
[22:05:16] <alex_joni> I liked the classification though
[22:07:09] <alex_joni> http://www.linhof.de/english/index.html <- wouldn't mind one of these
[22:11:53] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO http://www.hermes.net.au/bayling/repair.html
[22:14:20] <cradek> funny, but he's a total dumbass for not wearing safety glasses
[22:21:40] <giacus> lol, that's a good way to repair plasma TV or new generation monitors too
[22:21:54] <alex_joni> cradek: got a chance at trying out the changes?
[22:24:13] <cradek> not really other than seeing if it builds... I don't have the nist lathe setup right now
[22:24:43] <cradek> but I do have a lot of my lathe conversion done - now I'll definitely have to do a spindle speed control too
[22:25:02] <alex_joni> cool :D
[22:25:24] <cradek> I'm sure excited about this
[22:25:28] <alex_joni> then I'll head to bed ;).. if anything comes up the bug tracker is our friend :D
[22:25:37] <cradek> ok great
[22:25:45] <cradek> goodnight and thanks for all the work
[22:26:03] <alex_joni> np
[22:39:02] <alex_joni> night all
[22:41:37] <giacus> Goodnight alex_joni
[22:45:20] <robin_sz> night
[22:45:34] <robin_sz> hey giacus , italy won the football !
[22:45:43] <robin_sz> but ... this was expected
[22:45:56] <giacus> hello robin_sz :)
[22:46:10] <giacus> great fest
[22:46:51] <giacus> what I'm attempting to understand yet is what happened with Zidane-Materazzi ..
[22:47:00] <robin_sz> you only have to look back in history ...
[22:47:02] <robin_sz> - Gallic Wars
[22:47:02] <robin_sz> - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]
[22:47:23] <robin_sz> - Italian Wars
[22:47:23] <robin_sz> - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
[22:47:32] <robin_sz> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html
[22:48:18] <giacus> hehe
[22:49:01] <giacus> well, italy don't loves wars
[22:49:18] <giacus> think we do not have nuclear centrals here around
[22:49:44] <giacus> but they're in French, only 100 km north from Italy
[22:50:08] <giacus> We pay gas and energy to est countries..
[22:51:02] <giacus> Italy governemnts never accepted it in our country
[22:51:36] <giacus> but french peoples are good friend ;)
[22:52:02] <robin_sz> as they say "You can rely on the french to be there when they need you"
[22:53:30] <giacus> I think so
[22:53:58] <giacus> its a Great Country
[22:54:41] <giacus> you got few players there too
[22:54:55] <giacus> I think Perrotta will play for Chelsea next season
[22:55:20] <giacus> and was reading Lippi left the national team ..
[22:55:39] <giacus> I think he want to go outside of it too
[23:12:07] <giacus> I was hating soccer until few months ago, but something is changing..
[23:12:44] <giacus> the italian soccer scandal is removing lot of dirty from this business
[23:13:27] <giacus> in the latest 20 years we only seen lot of money going to soccer players, millions.. media rights, etc ..
[23:13:46] <giacus> that's why the soccer was corrupted and dirty
[23:14:15] <giacus> but these gyus showed how they are neat with this world cup
[23:14:37] <giacus> and maybe, we can re-start in the right way now
[23:15:19] <giacus> justice is removing all old an dirty managers from the IT soccer, and its right !
[23:16:14] <giacus> a reason more to believe in the good things
[23:19:54] <giacus> it was a pride reaction
[23:24:12] <giacus> to discover a real soccer played with the foots, not with the money..
[23:24:29] <giacus> foots and soul
[23:27:52] <giacus> for some strange reason humans sometime can back up just after they touch the bottom, not before :(
[23:31:52] <robin_sz> ummm ... "touch the bottom" ...
[23:33:37] <giacus> yeah, I did that experience, a least one time in my life
[23:33:48] <giacus> I can assure.. its true :(
[23:33:59] <robin_sz> someoen touched your bottom?
[23:34:16] <giacus> haha
[23:34:33] <giacus> no, but with my ex wife I touched the bottom of the life
[23:34:44] <giacus> that was enough as experience..
[23:34:49] <robin_sz> maybe, maybe not
[23:35:12] <giacus> well I?m alive and happy yet, so.. :)
[23:35:13] <robin_sz> I suspect that "the bottom of life" is worse than you have had ...
[23:35:44] <giacus> no, I can't say where the 'bottom' really is for anybody
[23:35:54] <giacus> I feel I touch it, as I sayd
[23:36:18] <giacus> but you could use different units than me :D
[23:36:46] <robin_sz> today I should fly to geneva
[23:36:56] <giacus> nice
[23:37:00] <robin_sz> maybe
[23:37:04] <robin_sz> but maybe I dont go
[23:37:14] <robin_sz> not so much fun
[23:37:27] <giacus> seems travel time for you this last month :)
[23:37:38] <giacus> why ? tired ?
[23:40:29] <giacus> I'm impatient, waiting a computers exposition in next sunday here
[23:41:53] <giacus> maybe a good chance to buy low cost HW
[23:42:27] <giacus> latest year I bought 7-8 isa parallel ports for 50 cents each :P
[23:42:43] <K4ts> night
[23:44:44] <robin_sz> paralell ports are so 1995
[23:45:07] <giacus> there was some nice stand with surplus instruments too
[23:45:22] <giacus> old scope, spectrum analyzer, etc
[23:46:01] <giacus> but are only 2 days, and I'd have to go right when it open the first day
[23:46:31] <giacus> after few hours you could lost better chances..
[23:47:06] <giacus> and have to be sure about what you buy :(
[23:47:20] <giacus> no much time to think about it ..
[23:48:44] <robin_sz> ebay for scopes
[23:48:55] <giacus> http://www.i6bs.it/fiere.htm
[23:49:22] <giacus> they sells a bit of all
[23:49:32] <giacus> electronics components too
[23:49:58] <giacus> but I'm interesting in surplus pieces
[23:57:47] <giacus> well, bedtime. Night all