#emc | Logs for 2006-06-29

[01:14:35] <skunkworks> they still working on the plugin - probably a few days or more.
[01:14:43] <skunkworks> oops
[01:14:59] <skunkworks> wrong window
[01:23:13] <Jymmm> I need to route my new tabletop, then shift it, and finish the job. How many registeration pins should I use?
[01:23:34] <Jymmm> is 4 good enough?
[05:32:21] <LawrenceG> hey! anyone awake here?
[05:33:05] <LawrenceG> I am looking for the spiral.ngc (the torture test file...)
[05:33:18] <LawrenceG> links?
[06:04:11] <A-L-P-H-A> wiki?
[06:04:39] <LawrenceG> tnx... I think I found it in the cvs ngc files
[06:04:48] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[06:21:37] <Jymmm> ubuntu 6.06 no like me hardware too well...
[06:36:43] <Jymmm> hi LawrenceG
[06:52:07] <alex_joni> fenn: still around?
[07:23:47] <alex_joni> 'lo JymmmEMC
[07:24:44] <JymmmEMC> lo
[07:25:21] <JymmmEMC> Why does ubuntu have three different schedulers.... anacron, atd, and cron
[07:25:29] <JymmmEMC> all three are running
[08:57:24] <alex_joni> jymmm: at starts a job at a certain time.
[08:57:24] <alex_joni> cron runs jobs in fixed intervals.
[08:57:25] <alex_joni> anacron runs jobs in flexible intervals.
[12:43:28] <alex_joni> hi samco
[12:48:05] <skunkworks> morning alex
[12:48:25] <alex_joni> wanted to thank you
[12:48:27] <skunkworks> Have not played with emc much over the last week or 2
[12:50:46] <skunkworks> no problem (kernel testing?)
[12:51:07] <alex_joni> nope
[12:51:18] <skunkworks> what did I do?
[12:51:39] <skunkworks> it was an accident I sware
[12:51:54] <alex_joni> :P
[12:52:00] <alex_joni> you did set things straight :D
[12:52:04] <alex_joni> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19915
[12:52:10] <alex_joni> and similar around that forum
[12:54:29] <skunkworks> no problem - I just try not to sound too finatical(sp)
[12:54:39] <alex_joni> finatical?
[12:54:39] <skunkworks> if I ever start sounding like a loony - tell me.
[12:55:44] <skunkworks> um - a fanatic
[12:55:46] <jepler> fanatical
[12:55:54] <alex_joni> and how would I tell? (if you sound like a loony)
[12:55:54] <skunkworks> right
[12:56:00] <skunkworks> :)
[12:56:01] <alex_joni> jepler: ty
[12:56:01] <jepler> personally, I think anybody who spends time reading and responding on web forums is a fanatic
[12:56:14] <alex_joni> especially the responding part ;)
[12:56:20] <jepler> as opposed to mailing lists or usenet, of course
[12:56:24] <alex_joni> jepler: lol
[12:56:31] <skunkworks> of course
[13:03:46] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3000/size/medium
[13:03:55] <skunkworks> rickomatic pictures
[13:04:06] <alex_joni> You must be a registered user to view images!
[13:04:06] <alex_joni> To register click on the REGISTER button in the menu above.
[13:04:14] <skunkworks> oh - sorry
[13:09:39] <skunkworks> this is the main one - another emc group picture taken by rick
[13:09:41] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/rickomatic.jpeg
[13:12:01] <skunkworks> (he was the one demo-ing aluminum casting.
[13:12:03] <skunkworks> )\
[13:14:57] <mess> Hello all...
[13:15:52] <alex_joni> hi mess
[13:15:58] <alex_joni> this looks nice: http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/832/850.html
[13:19:57] <fenn> ugh its so clean and new looking
[13:22:53] <mess> you should see the place im in... today..
[13:23:20] <mess> Prince edward island ahs an aerospace mfg facility... go figure
[13:24:49] <alex_joni> hi fenn
[13:25:03] <alex_joni> fenn: you wondered how the 3-legged stewart works?
[13:26:27] <fenn> i assume the cylinders are keyed so they can't rotate
[13:57:37] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/bin/wait-for-pin: simplify to use "test -z" and "halcmd -qs", remove dependence on number of header and blank lines
[14:03:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: fix one case of the error "grab failed: another application has grab"
[15:56:43] <draco> hallo
[15:58:07] <draco> ich habe eine frage zur signalform die EMC erzeugt.. kann mir da jemand helfen?
[15:58:49] <giacus> non so.
[15:59:12] <giacus> da dove telefoni ?
[15:59:15] <draco> in english?
[15:59:39] <giacus> yes
[15:59:41] <cradek> hi draco, we prefer english
[15:59:50] <draco> ok.
[16:00:47] <draco> the signals EMC generates for the stepper is, a 50us high following a low-time, depending on the speed
[16:01:29] <draco> but i need a signal that has a 50/50 signal
[16:01:49] <draco> with changing period-time
[16:02:24] <cradek> do you mean quadrature, or still step and direction?
[16:02:34] <draco> step/direction
[16:02:55] <draco> the step signal should be always 50/50
[16:03:14] <draco> is this possible?
[16:03:33] <cradek> no, and I don't understand why you would want it
[16:03:52] <cradek> your drives should generate a step when the signal changes from high to low, or low to high
[16:03:55] <draco> because my cnc-machine doesnt work with the other signal
[16:04:09] <cradek> maybe the pulses are too short for it
[16:04:17] <draco> no
[16:04:19] <cradek> you can configure the pulse width
[16:04:46] <draco> right now, i use it with an USB-controler with windwos software
[16:04:54] <draco> but the software sucks
[16:04:58] <jepler> emc2 lets you configure some things about the step waveform, but none of these things will give a 50% duty cycle for all step rates. See page 66 of http://linuxcnc.org/Hal_Documentation.pdf
[16:05:15] <jepler> you could add 50% duty cycle but it would reqire you to write some "C" code
[16:05:50] <draco> :-(
[16:06:05] <cradek> what kind of motor drives are these draco?
[16:06:49] <draco> its a machine from http://www.tecger.com/
[16:07:48] <draco> the electronic is from http://www.boenigk-electronics.com/
[16:09:24] <draco> jepler, would it be very complicated?
[16:09:30] <cradek> do you know if it steps when the step line goes high or low? with such an unusual signal requirement I suspect it's not step/dir like we are familiar with
[16:09:46] <cradek> maybe it steps on BOTH transitions
[16:10:05] <cradek> then you would see something that looks like 50/50 viewing it on a scope
[16:10:13] <draco> i had a look at the signals that the USB-controler generates on a scope
[16:10:17] <alex_joni> draco: seeing that there is DOS software that can drive it
[16:10:21] <draco> an its 50/50
[16:10:25] <draco> always
[16:10:26] <alex_joni> I seriously doubt that it's always 50/50
[16:10:33] <alex_joni> draco: yeah on the USB stuff
[16:10:35] <cradek> well maybe it's not step/dir
[16:10:37] <alex_joni> draco: try it
[16:10:43] <alex_joni> draco: with emc2 as it is
[16:10:44] <cradek> (as we know it)
[16:10:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs home
[16:10:51] <draco> with EMC the motors do only work with veryvery slow speed
[16:11:05] <jepler> draco: Is there some documentation on the driver which describes the required input signal?
[16:11:18] <draco> unfortunatly not
[16:11:18] <cradek> also, maybe it steps on the opposite transistion from what emc expects
[16:11:43] <draco> the only thjing is that i tried it.. and had a look at the signals
[16:11:55] <draco> and the only difference is what i told
[16:12:17] <cradek> I understand but I think you are misinterpreting what you saw
[16:12:35] <draco> tell me you interpretion
[16:12:37] <cradek> if you can generate signals slowly by hand I think you will see it's somehow not step/dir
[16:13:01] <cradek> well I don't know without experimenting with it, but I think maybe it steps at both transitions of the step signal
[16:13:05] <draco> what else should it be, if one pin is high one way, and low the other
[16:13:18] <draco> and the other pin is a clock
[16:13:51] <cradek> can you generate the signals with a 5v supply and test to see when it moves a step?
[16:14:00] <cradek> when going high, going low, or both
[16:14:19] <draco> i could do, yes
[16:14:20] <cradek> if that does not agree with emc it will work very badly like you are seeing
[16:14:23] <jepler> draco: when not stepping, is the signal you call "step" in the HIGH or the LOW state? Or can it be either one?
[16:15:00] <draco> one sek pls
[16:15:16] <cradek> that's a good test, but not enough, since the software may always stop at a certain multiple of steps
[16:15:23] <cradek> (like microstep)
[16:16:12] <draco> its normaly high..
[16:17:06] <draco> the controller can do microsteps..
[16:17:11] <jepler> by default emc is low when not stepping
[16:17:29] <jepler> can you try changing the polarity of the step signal?
[16:17:44] <draco> yes.. i ll try.. 2 secs
[16:18:59] <jepler> in emc2 you do this by setting an "invert" parameter on the parallel port to true (e.g., setp parport.0.pin-02-out-invert true)
[16:20:06] <draco> dammn cant find our signal-generator...
[16:20:19] <draco> would have been the easyest way..
[16:22:38] <draco> the controller has an microcontroller on board
[16:23:19] <draco> i think it generates the signals for the stepper itself..
[16:41:50] <jepler> * jepler goes to lunch
[16:44:54] <draco> back...
[16:45:06] <draco> had a signalgenerator from the neighbour..
[16:45:31] <draco> but doesnt work really .. with 50/50..
[16:45:53] <draco> dont know why...
[16:57:16] <draco> will have to do some more tests..
[16:57:23] <draco> CU, and thanks
[17:30:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hi
[17:37:05] <alex_joni> hi
[17:53:08] <JymmmEMC> jepler, cradek : You guys want feedback in axis?
[17:53:14] <JymmmEMC> s/in/on/
[17:54:29] <JymmmEMC> [simAXIS] I can click on a line number and it'll show in the display, but I can't up/down arrow to go to the next line.
[17:54:57] <SWPadnos> up and down arrow are jog +/- in Y
[17:55:15] <SWPadnos> (afair)
[17:57:09] <JymmmEMC> Thsi was with machine off. click a line, it shows where in the display. With machien on, you're correct in the jogging, but when I click on a line#, it's not displayed.
[17:57:21] <JymmmEMC> This was with machine off. click a line, it shows where in the display. With machien on, you're correct in the jogging, but when I click on a line#, it's not displayed.
[17:57:38] <SWPadnos> I see
[17:57:40] <SWPadnos> I see
[17:57:46] <JymmmEMC> (funky irc client, apologies on the partial dup)
[17:57:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:58:16] <alex_joni> partial?
[17:58:28] <JymmmEMC> only showed a partial dup here
[17:58:40] <alex_joni> funky irc client ;)
[17:58:46] <SWPadnos> in theory, the program lines could go away when you seitch to MDI / jog mode, and then there would be no ambiguity as to what the cursor keys would do
[17:58:57] <SWPadnos> s/seitch/switch/
[17:59:02] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni, you're the king of funky!
[17:59:19] <SWPadnos> that's "you da king o' funkyyyy"
[17:59:40] <SWPadnos> must be spelled in idiom :)
[17:59:40] <alex_joni> if you say so..
[17:59:54] <JymmmEMC> Alex is the King o Funk, so I wouldn't know nuttin bout that SWPadnos
[17:59:55] <SWPadnos> catually, I've got to run for a few minutes. back soon
[18:00:08] <SWPadnos> sheee-it
[18:00:13] <SWPadnos> catually - argh
[18:00:16] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: what now?
[18:00:22] <alex_joni> oh.. we read it allright
[18:00:27] <SWPadnos> gotta mail off the mortgage payment and stuff ;)
[18:00:57] <SWPadnos> maybe I should buy some donuts also ...
[18:01:18] <JymmmEMC> lol
[18:01:29] <alex_joni> nah.. get donut seeds
[18:01:34] <alex_joni> way healthier
[18:01:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, told ya alex_joni is the king of funk!
[18:02:01] <alex_joni> http://www.gottagottahaveit.com/6-03/prod/images/gags/donut-t.jpg
[18:03:26] <JymmmEMC> Fruit Loops are healthier than donuts huh?
[18:04:29] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: sure thing
[18:04:40] <JymmmEMC> =)
[18:06:38] <JymmmEMC> Is there a SHIFT+jogkey to like double speed the jog?
[18:07:17] <alex_joni> no,but you can increase the jogspeed
[18:07:24] <alex_joni> just look under help, keys
[18:07:31] <alex_joni> or in the manual ;)
[18:08:27] <JymmmEMC> No, I need a toggle.
[18:08:32] <jepler> JymmmEMC: thanks for the observation
[18:08:54] <jepler> JymmmEMC: SWPadnos is right about the motivation for why it (up/down key) is like it is
[18:09:06] <jepler> JymmmEMC: you can use , and . to increase/decrease the jog speed, but that's in increments, not double
[18:09:07] <alex_joni> but the Shift modifier is interesting
[18:09:48] <JymmmEMC> jepler, I'm a HEAVY kybd user, so I'll see those thigns before anything else.
[18:10:04] <jepler> JymmmEMC: cradek and I are also both heavy keyboard users
[18:10:10] <jepler> JymmmEMC: but we're also used to the way everything works
[18:11:51] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, I also noticed that I can't rotate the display either.
[18:12:05] <JymmmEMC> click & drag 360
[18:13:06] <jepler> JymmmEMC: for shift+jog, is double the speed what you want? (not 3x, or machine max, or something like that)?
[18:14:44] <alex_joni> how about e^x ;)
[18:15:03] <JymmmEMC> jepler, Yeah... jogkey == normal speed/accel, [shift|alt|ctrl]+jogkey would be either a value in some .ini or whatever. The idea being is I can fast jog to get the spindle into place, then slow jog for alignment.
[18:16:26] <JymmmEMC> That's how I've been doing in under TCNC with my external NUM_PAD, but I've remapped the NUM_5 key to the {accelerator_key}
[18:17:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: that is the reason I've got my jogwheels
[18:17:35] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, =) I's is po, I only gots me external numpads
[18:18:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: I was thinking about my spindle on/off switch. I'm probably via hardware going to rewire it so it emulates a momentary switch. (Switch from 1 to 0 gives a pulse on pin N, switch from 0 to 1 gives a pulse on pin N+1). How long should the pulse be? 10ms should be completely safe, right?
[18:18:37] <JymmmEMC> I really wanted to extend my pseudo_pendant (ext numpad) but when I first tried somethign screwed up in the remapping of keys.
[18:18:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: indeed, the issue with jogwheels it that they are hard to get ahold of
[18:18:55] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: yeah.. but you can do that in HAL aswell
[18:19:00] <alex_joni> saves you from hardware tinkering
[18:19:07] <JymmmEMC> Especially since there is NUM_LOCK... you can overlay a different set of controls on to it.
[18:19:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: I may as well do it in hardware, I find it more reliable and the tinkering only takes a few minutes. (I have all parts at home)
[18:19:42] <skunkworks> jymmm is running emc2? :)
[18:19:43] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: coo, then that's the best way to do it
[18:19:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: ooh, nice. could cause "which mode am I in" issues though
[18:20:14] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, nu, the ext numpad has an led on it
[18:20:18] <JymmmEMC> s/nu/no/
[18:20:30] <alex_joni> ni
[18:20:30] <JymmmEMC> well, some do anyway
[18:20:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: ok. is 10ms more than enough? a few base periods should suffice, but I may as well take something like 10ms
[18:20:44] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks, no BDI 0.32b
[18:20:44] <alex_joni> should be OK
[18:20:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm. do you look at the numpad a lot?
[18:20:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: is that part RT or nonRT?
[18:20:57] <alex_joni> there is a cycle time for halui
[18:20:58] <alex_joni> nonRT
[18:21:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh
[18:21:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I should maybe go for 100ms then
[18:21:08] <alex_joni> so it needs to be bigger than that
[18:21:12] <alex_joni> sounds better
[18:21:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> or 500 perhaps
[18:21:53] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, not really, but the nice thing about PS/2 is you can daisy chain as many as you like; one or two next to the machine, or whatever.
[18:23:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: nice
[18:23:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: if you don't look at the numpad then the LED wouldn't do much, right?
[18:23:49] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, peripheral vision
[18:24:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: haha. When I CNC i tend to stick my face 2cm from the part, so I don't see anything else at all
[18:24:20] <JymmmEMC> lol
[18:24:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: (not always 2cm, depends on the situation of course ;) )
[18:24:59] <JymmmEMC> well, at least you can control the machine from where you're looking (I do the same thing)
[18:25:14] <JymmmEMC> You wouldn't believe how I "zero" mine
[18:25:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> sound?
[18:25:34] <JymmmEMC> flashlight in one hand, numpad in the other.
[18:25:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> haha
[18:26:08] <JymmmEMC> When I first tried using feelers, I'd always be off. Since I started using the flashlight, I'm right on the mark.
[18:26:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> feelers?
[18:26:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> like a base master?
[18:26:24] <JymmmEMC> feelr gauges
[18:26:44] <JymmmEMC> thin strips of metal
[18:26:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh
[18:26:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[18:27:19] <jepler> similar to these: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/images/products/mid/MM060720155C.jpg
[18:27:37] <JymmmEMC> but I angle the beam of light and can see how close I'm to top of material
[18:27:41] <alex_joni> coo, I have some of those
[18:27:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, one of those
[18:27:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[18:27:59] <JymmmEMC> yeah, those
[18:28:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I find a base master to be good
[18:28:29] <JymmmEMC> ?
[18:28:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it's a small cylinder shaped object that has an LED that shines when the tool touches the typ. it
[18:28:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> 's exactly 50mm long
[18:28:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> gah.. damn ' and <enter> keys too close
[18:28:56] <JymmmEMC> Ah, but does it require conductive material?
[18:29:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, yes
[18:29:21] <JymmmEMC> Wood and plastic aint conductive enough =)
[18:29:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> you could place it on the table and if you know the material offset...
[18:29:52] <JymmmEMC> table aint conductive either =)
[18:30:01] <JymmmEMC> well, not the table TOP that is
[18:30:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh?
[18:30:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> painted?
[18:30:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm - interesting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200001382776
[18:30:22] <JymmmEMC> Eventually I'll make a touch probe and use that
[18:30:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> SWPadnos: wtf?
[18:30:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> isn't that against the GPL
[18:30:52] <SWPadnos> that was my reaction - does anyone know who that is
[18:30:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> he can only sell it for production costs
[18:31:02] <SWPadnos> no it's not - $2.99 is reasonable for production costs
[18:31:12] <SWPadnos> (more than reality, but still reasonable)
[18:31:23] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: seen it before
[18:31:30] <JymmmEMC> it's legal
[18:31:34] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I have no issues with him selling it for 2.99
[18:31:38] <SWPadnos> ok - just wondering if anyone knows who it is
[18:31:49] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: he could even sell support if he wanted to
[18:31:51] <JymmmEMC> he could do it for $10
[18:32:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, it's got a printed manual too, $3 sounds reasonable
[18:32:12] <SWPadnos> silicon valley would be jymmm or petev, if it's a "knows user"
[18:32:18] <SWPadnos> known
[18:32:35] <SWPadnos> yeah - the manual thing was interesting as well - which one, I wonder ...
[18:32:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, I tracked him down, he sells ALL kinds of ISO's
[18:33:02] <SWPadnos> I saw that
[18:33:04] <alex_joni> are you sure it's printed?
[18:33:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: probably the one from www.linuxcnc.org
[18:33:31] <SWPadnos> not sure, but when the manual is listed separately, that's the impression I get
[18:33:48] <JymmmEMC> it doesn't SAY "printed"
[18:34:03] <alex_joni> it's not included in the liveCd ..
[18:34:10] <alex_joni> maybe that's why it's separate
[18:34:17] <SWPadnos> true
[18:34:43] <alex_joni> otoh, I sold some GPL software too
[18:34:50] <alex_joni> and gave the sources with it
[18:35:12] <alex_joni> don't think that's illegal
[18:35:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> did you sell for profit?
[18:35:23] <SWPadnos> maybe someone should suggest that he post a screenshot with Axis ;)
[18:35:31] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: actually .. not really
[18:35:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: he might be afraid of jepler
[18:35:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: then it's ok, IANAL though
[18:35:48] <SWPadnos> you can't sell GPL software, but you can sell the media, and charge for any time you spend modifying it (and for support, of course)
[18:35:57] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: right
[18:36:11] <alex_joni> actually I sold an integrated system
[18:36:16] <JymmmEMC> Thus why I like BSD licensing =)
[18:37:09] <alex_joni> heh.. I love his first phrase
[18:37:16] <alex_joni> "NO copyrights have been violated."
[18:37:23] <SWPadnos> in light grey ...
[18:37:50] <JymmmEMC> ppl dont understand that you can sell media, he's probably got a lot of nags
[18:38:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> JymmmEMC: most people probably don't even know it is GPL, and think it's commercial $3k software...
[18:38:41] <JymmmEMC> shipping is a tad high for a cd
[18:38:50] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, lol
[18:39:29] <cradek> USPS first class probably costs 50ยข to ship a CD
[18:40:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, btw, how well matured is software like mach3?
[18:40:59] <JymmmEMC> plus $0.95 for the padded envelope
[18:41:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it can't be very good for RT stuff, as it's based in windows
[18:41:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> but otherwise
[18:42:01] <JymmmEMC>
[18:42:25] <alex_joni> kinda hard to find out who those guys are
[18:42:35] <JymmmEMC> Lerneaen_Hydra2, you should ask robin_sz
[18:42:40] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni, which guys?
[18:42:53] <alex_joni> octagonconsulting.net
[18:43:11] <JymmmEMC> NAh, the last time this conv came up I found their address and phone
[18:43:22] <JymmmEMC> about 4 miles from
[18:43:23] <JymmmEMC> me
[18:43:26] <alex_joni> registered by Idea Magic, inc (San Ramon, California)
[18:43:41] <alex_joni> Idea Magic, Inc.
[18:43:41] <alex_joni> 490M Country Brook Loop
[18:43:41] <alex_joni> San Ramon, California 94583
[18:43:41] <alex_joni> United States
[18:43:41] <alex_joni> 9258231728
[18:43:42] <JymmmEMC> keep looking, the address is there
[18:43:44] <cradek> bah, who cares
[18:44:15] <cradek> just a parasite
[18:44:16] <alex_joni> and idea-magic.com is registered by Laguna Logistics Group,LLC
[18:44:31] <alex_joni> cradek: not really caring.. just wasting time
[18:44:31] <jepler> if you want to throw a fit about the gpl, ask why paul corner has ignored my several mails about the source for the modified version of emc2 he's packaged for bid (hint: it's either not available, or its location is super secret)
[18:44:31] <alex_joni> 3334 E. Coast Hwy, #181
[18:44:31] <alex_joni> Corona Del Mar, California 92625
[18:44:31] <alex_joni> United States
[18:44:32] <alex_joni> (775) 239-6122 Fax -- (775) 239-6122
[18:44:35] <jepler> (hi paul)
[18:49:09] <JymmmEMC> Now I gotta figure out how to get me DOS partion as a manu option in grub =(
[18:50:36] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: something like this:
[18:50:38] <alex_joni> title Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
[18:50:39] <alex_joni> root (hd0,0)
[18:50:39] <alex_joni> savedefault
[18:50:39] <alex_joni> makeactive
[18:50:54] <alex_joni> you probably want to call it something else though ;)
[18:51:53] <alex_joni> that goes into /boot/grub/menu.lst
[18:54:30] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni, what's this: chainloader +1
[18:54:43] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: not sure.. I think I have that too
[18:54:47] <JymmmEMC> k
[18:55:30] <JymmmEMC> what you typed is in the menu.list commented out, I copied it and uncommented. we'll see =) rebooting now...
[18:56:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> *cue some important code that if not added sets to an eternal default-runmode 6*
[18:57:15] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Cool beans =)
[18:57:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> did you reboot and load the os that fast?
[18:57:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni and when I say DOS, I mean DOS =)
[18:57:47] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I understand that
[18:57:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> and IRC over DOS...
[18:58:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, I'm starting to think that there are two computers... ;)
[18:58:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni Yeah, it's dos, it boot's instantly
[18:58:20] <alex_joni> did I say anything?
[18:58:37] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2: Yes, I actually can IRC over DOS, gotta love packet drivers =)
[18:58:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh?
[18:58:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> cool
[18:58:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni you seemed surprised that I was able to reboot so fast.
[18:58:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> 1337ness
[18:59:01] <alex_joni> ne2000 ?
[18:59:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Jymmm: that was I that said that
[18:59:15] <alex_joni> Jymmm: no, I wasn't :D
[18:59:29] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2 I even have a firewall for DOS that you can telnet/ftp to as well.
[18:59:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> neat
[18:59:53] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2 can even bind multiple modems together as a dialup backup
[19:00:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> cool!
[19:00:32] <Jymmm> and no hdd required. runs from memory after booted.
[19:00:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> coolish
[19:01:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni Ah, well it just seemed liek it is all =)
[19:01:46] <alex_joni> Jymmm: OK
[19:01:53] <alex_joni> Jymmm: so.. how seems emc2?
[19:03:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni I'll have to reinstall; need to install a off-board video card.
[19:03:08] <alex_joni> so?
[19:03:13] <alex_joni> why do you need to reinstall?
[19:03:38] <alex_joni> this ain't doze you know.. :)
[19:03:54] <alex_joni> you could take the HDD and put it into a new PC, and it'll mostly work
[19:03:55] <Jymmm> the mobo is set to default to AGP (onboard), debian is really funky about that, and will keep that as the primary video.
[19:04:13] <Jymmm> so I won't see the bootup process.
[19:04:17] <alex_joni> disable onboard from BIOS
[19:04:28] <Jymmm> can't, only set which one is primary
[19:04:45] <alex_joni> then default to the otherone
[19:04:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[19:04:54] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: he said bootup
[19:04:57] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2 it's not X.
[19:05:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh
[19:05:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> right, silly me
[19:05:47] <Jymmm> Sure, there probably is a way to change that w/o reinstalling, I just know reinstalling WILL work.
[19:06:21] <alex_joni> might not be worth the hassle.. to figure out how to make it work
[19:06:36] <alex_joni> but I think fbdev might have some passed on vars which you can add to grub
[19:06:42] <alex_joni> so it uses the otherone
[19:06:57] <Jymmm> yeah, I had this issue a ways back. that's how I know about it.
[19:07:33] <alex_joni> Jymmm: what debian are you running?
[19:07:39] <Jymmm> nobody has any spare 256MD DIMMS do they?
[19:07:50] <robin_sz> Jymmm, yes
[19:08:08] <robin_sz> lots of people on ebay for a start ... and some Koreans
[19:08:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni It's ubuntu 5.xx , but I had the issue under debian too
[19:08:27] <alex_joni> right... :)
[19:09:55] <robin_sz> you could always try asking in #debian on this network ;)
[19:10:21] <Jymmm> I could, but it's far simpler to just reinstall.
[19:10:32] <robin_sz> nah go on .. I need a laugh ;)
[19:11:08] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2 You should ask robin_sz about MACH3, he uses it exclusively
[19:11:23] <robin_sz> dont think I have a copy ...
[19:12:07] <alex_joni> I used it once
[19:12:11] <alex_joni> the trial version
[19:12:49] <robin_sz> I used a lot ... it sucks in some ways, and blows emc away in others ... but we seem to be catching up
[19:13:00] <alex_joni> what ways?
[19:13:06] <robin_sz> the GUI and macros
[19:13:07] <alex_joni> the "blows" I mena
[19:13:08] <alex_joni> mean
[19:13:25] <robin_sz> the GUI and macros are awesome ... the screen designer is great
[19:13:33] <robin_sz> the lack of stability is pants though
[19:15:13] <robin_sz> our HAL stuff blows it away in many ways too
[19:15:55] <cradek> the gui looked like a train wreck to me, a hundred colors and no two buttons the same shape, and inexplicable blinking things
[19:16:10] <cradek> oops, did I say that out loud?
[19:16:23] <robin_sz> which version was that? lathe or mill or what?
[19:16:28] <alex_joni> robin_sz: all of them
[19:16:52] <alex_joni> I've never seen 2 controls with the same background colour as the GUI background
[19:17:00] <alex_joni> they all seem somehow misplaced there
[19:17:16] <robin_sz> you need to remember that the GUI shipped has EVERYTHING on it, it not really meant to be used
[19:17:47] <robin_sz> you are supposed to load up one of the customised ones for lathe or mill or plasma etc
[19:18:55] <alex_joni> http://www.mdaprecision.com/PICTURES/Wabeco-Pictures/CNC%20tutorials/Bracket%20Arm%20tutorial/Mach2-shot.jpg
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> still not sure I like that..
[19:19:28] <alex_joni> http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Mach2/Profi20.jpg <- or this
[19:19:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> g'night
[19:19:48] <alex_joni> I could probably keep going :)
[19:19:50] <cradek> aaaa! train wreck!
[19:19:53] <robin_sz> that MDA one is weird ...
[19:20:02] <cradek> and someone glued candies to the screen!
[19:20:18] <alex_joni> http://www.electroprivod.ru/program/mach2/mach2.jpg
[19:20:59] <robin_sz> they all have one HUGE advantage over emc though ...
[19:21:10] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/files/about/axis11-running.png
[19:21:11] <robin_sz> their USERS desinged them the way they wanted em
[19:21:32] <cradek> yeah, they were forced to spend time making it "usable enough" because there's no coherent design
[19:21:59] <alex_joni> whoaaa.. http://www.dolphin.zenwebhosting.com/images/mach1.gif
[19:22:25] <cradek> alex_joni: wow, that just screams "friendly" doesn't it?
[19:22:38] <robin_sz> better than not being able to change it even if they wanted to ...
[19:23:10] <robin_sz> alex_joni, do you know what that screen is?
[19:23:20] <jepler> robin_sz: of course they can change it -- it's Free software. The bar is just set at a different level than it is for mach.
[19:23:23] <alex_joni> robin_sz: should I bother knowing?
[19:23:42] <alex_joni> robin_sz: seems like a debug interface
[19:23:47] <robin_sz> alex_joni, well if you are going to offer it up as an excample, yes, you should
[19:23:55] <robin_sz> yes, its the debug interface
[19:24:00] <robin_sz> the diagnostics screen
[19:24:00] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I was talking bad design
[19:24:07] <alex_joni> not what it does
[19:24:11] <alex_joni> how it LOOKS
[19:24:21] <robin_sz> looks great to me
[19:25:09] <jepler> robin_sz: if you think an easily reconfigurable GUI is important to emc's adoption, and you think emc's adoption is important, then do the work to create it.
[19:25:18] <robin_sz> I tried
[19:25:40] <jepler> robin_sz: but please understand that my vision, and cradek's, is that a good default is better than vast amounts of configurability.
[19:27:06] <robin_sz> an interesting point ... but consdier this:
[19:27:45] <robin_sz> how about EXACTLY that interface,
[19:27:57] <robin_sz> AND the ability for the user to configure it how they want?
[19:28:25] <alex_joni> robin_sz: as someone around here used to say..
[19:28:32] <alex_joni> "patches happily accepted" :)
[19:28:37] <alex_joni> topic change.. here's a nice toy:
[19:28:44] <cradek> robin_sz: that's not a priority for us, the active gui developers.
[19:29:06] <jepler> my time is finite. I'd rather add things like the most useful jog speed slider I'm aware of, and lathe tool display, than "configurability"
[19:30:39] <jepler> I'm actually not likely to accept a patch to make the AXIS gui "configurable"
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> jepler: it could be for tkemc.. LOL
[19:31:28] <alex_joni> jepler: I was kidding..
[19:32:20] <fenn> libglade woot
[19:33:01] <robin_sz> well, im sure you are right ...
[19:33:22] <alex_joni> robin_sz: it's not a matter of who's right..
[19:33:36] <alex_joni> 'tis the software.. who likes it uses it, who doesn't has a choice
[19:33:45] <alex_joni> to either improve it themselves, or move on
[19:36:13] <robin_sz> so waht you are saying is this:
[19:37:28] <robin_sz> Yes you may have many years of experience designing, specifying and selling motion systems, but unless you can actually find time to code the stuff yourself, your opinion is of no value at all?
[19:37:52] <SWPadnos> bzzzzzzzzzttt!
[19:38:19] <SWPadnos> you have no time to code it yourself, but that doesn't prevent you from paying someone else to do it :)
[19:38:30] <robin_sz> lack of money does.
[19:38:39] <SWPadnos> heh - well that's different ;)
[19:39:24] <alex_joni> you could use the 300$ you pay for Mach
[19:39:34] <robin_sz> ? $300?
[19:39:37] <alex_joni> I know LOTS of guys who'll code a whole month over here for that money
[19:39:38] <SWPadnos> $150
[19:39:43] <alex_joni> not sure what the price is
[19:39:44] <robin_sz> its free ...
[19:40:06] <SWPadnos> it's free for <2000 lines programs, and you need Windows on the machine
[19:40:26] <SWPadnos> that doesn't matter for hobbyists, but commercial interests are a different matter
[19:40:27] <robin_sz> windows is effectively free too
[19:40:36] <alex_joni> ONLY $159 US. ( For a limited time only)
[19:40:51] <alex_joni> http://www.machsupport.com/artsoft/purchase/purchase.htm
[19:41:10] <robin_sz> its free to download and use for as long as you like for <2000 lines at a single run
[19:41:22] <alex_joni> <1000
[19:41:24] <robin_sz> thats enough to evaluate the good and bad points
[19:41:36] <alex_joni> we weren't talking about evaluating.. were we?
[19:41:42] <robin_sz> I was.
[19:41:52] <robin_sz> I wouldnt use it if you paid me
[19:41:52] <alex_joni> I thought we were talking about changing the GUI
[19:41:55] <robin_sz> right
[19:41:59] <alex_joni> and paying someone to do so
[19:42:07] <alex_joni> which you can do with 150$
[19:42:13] <robin_sz> really?
[19:42:17] <alex_joni> robin_sz: really
[19:42:28] <robin_sz> ok, for 150 USD?
[19:42:36] <SWPadnos> I'd be surprised if you could get a similar functionality to the interface builder in Mach for $150 of programmer time
[19:42:51] <robin_sz> where do I send my $150?
[19:42:52] <alex_joni> robin_sz: like I said a programmer over here (a pretty good one) gets about 4-500$ / month
[19:42:56] <SWPadnos> but then again, that's a fair bit of money in .ro, I guess :)
[19:43:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: right ;)
[19:43:34] <SWPadnos> who was it that was working on the qt_nml stuff with paul and me?
[19:43:53] <SWPadnos> it was one of you A people, like alex or anon
[19:44:02] <cradek> windows is free?
[19:44:19] <alex_joni> I think anon
[19:44:22] <SWPadnos> it comes on new machines, so the cost is hidden
[19:44:30] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: not over here ;)
[19:44:40] <alex_joni> METRO is selling PC's with Ubuntu lately
[19:44:44] <SWPadnos> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/29/1657241
[19:44:45] <robin_sz> heres what I would want for that $150: a gui designer where a user can drag and drop a component (button, indicator, digital readout) onto a screen and move,resize it. Additionally, any button should be able to be linked to a macro call, that can be scripted in some random langauge to make things happen
[19:45:00] <SWPadnos> are you buying one copy, or multiples?
[19:45:23] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, no its effectively free, as when you specify Linux or no operating system, its usually no cheaper than having Xp on in the first place
[19:45:46] <alex_joni> robin_sz: way cheaper here (without XP)
[19:45:48] <cradek> that doesn't mean it's free, it means you pay for it whether or not you want it
[19:45:53] <SWPadnos> that's part of what I mean - the cost is built in for you, even though it shouldn't be (as several court cases have shown)
[19:45:54] <alex_joni> 2-300$ PC, with XP it's 450$
[19:46:02] <robin_sz> quite
[19:46:21] <alex_joni> but that's probably because noone would pay for it :D
[19:46:26] <robin_sz> but then its just semantics. you dont pay any more for it ... whether thats free or not I dont know
[19:46:51] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I suggest you change your supplier
[19:46:53] <robin_sz> I thin some people would, some people pay for linux ...
[19:46:57] <SWPadnos> no - they're charging you whether you take it or not
[19:47:13] <robin_sz> well, yeah, but if I changed my supplier I would pay even MORE
[19:47:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that's a rip-off
[19:47:30] <alex_joni> we have LOTS of PC suppliers over here
[19:47:33] <robin_sz> dell, too cheap to compete with
[19:47:34] <jepler> * jepler excuses himself from this conversation
[19:47:36] <alex_joni> probably a couple hundred
[19:47:42] <SWPadnos> heh - smart jepler ;)
[19:47:52] <alex_joni> right
[19:47:56] <cradek> me too me too
[19:48:03] <alex_joni> no, you're not excused
[19:48:06] <SWPadnos> smart (copycat) cradek
[19:48:13] <cradek> alex_joni: :-P
[19:48:18] <alex_joni> cradek: that was too late
[19:48:23] <alex_joni> you already said something
[19:48:28] <robin_sz> well, whatever, I just see the bits of mach that work really really well and people like
[19:48:44] <alex_joni> robin_sz: and I wouldn't deny there are some
[19:48:50] <robin_sz> fair enough
[19:48:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't accept the world consists only of morons
[19:49:20] <robin_sz> and I wouldnt deny that the actual control/realtime side of mach sucks donkey whang
[19:49:22] <alex_joni> who get some specific software only because they need to pay for it ;)
[19:49:31] <SWPadnos> a configurable UI would be great for EMC but, like many open source projects, getting things to work correctly and well has more emphasis than making them pretty for the user
[19:49:54] <alex_joni> right, and there are quite a few ways in which emc is different
[19:50:15] <SWPadnos> it would be nic efor some company or wealthy person to fund the development of the tillification software, but it hasn't happened yet
[19:50:23] <robin_sz> true
[19:50:28] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: like that guy did for ubuntu
[19:50:49] <SWPadnos> Mark Shuttleworth, yes
[19:50:59] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe we should give him a call ;)
[19:51:00] <alex_joni> yeah, that's him
[19:51:02] <alex_joni> right
[19:51:23] <robin_sz> what I have noted in the last 12months is that a LOT of the basic groundwork has already been done
[19:51:40] <SWPadnos> actually, someone like John Carmack or the other video game writer that builds rockets on the side may be a good candidate
[19:51:52] <SWPadnos> since they may be interested in machines :)
[19:52:05] <robin_sz> theres all the HAL stuff ... which is basically generic, and driven by configs
[19:52:10] <SWPadnos> maybe we can convince JC to just write it even
[19:52:12] <fenn> and has his own haas vf
[19:52:20] <SWPadnos> details, details
[19:52:53] <SWPadnos> emc is different from all other low-cost CNC controllers in that it's actually closed loop
[19:53:03] <fenn> http://armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=320
[19:53:04] <robin_sz> true
[19:53:23] <robin_sz> but thats not a good reason for not having a drag and drop GUI is it
[19:53:39] <SWPadnos> of course not
[19:53:54] <SWPadnos> but then again, a DND GUI shouldn't be a good reason for choosing a motion controller either
[19:54:08] <fenn> i'd rather see work on a hal gui than adding lots of crap to the static ui
[19:54:10] <robin_sz> errm, often it is a VERY good reason
[19:54:31] <robin_sz> exactly ... a HAL gui is looking a very promising way to go
[19:54:40] <alex_joni> fenn: what static ui?
[19:54:44] <robin_sz> signals and pins .. .buttons and displays
[19:54:46] <fenn> one that shows the state of the machine :)
[19:55:04] <fenn> alex_joni: what i mean is a hal gui has to be configurable by its very nature
[19:55:17] <alex_joni> not really
[19:55:28] <fenn> bah
[19:55:32] <alex_joni> a hal gui is actually a simple schematic editor
[19:55:44] <robin_sz> not really
[19:55:45] <alex_joni> those aren't really configurable imnsho
[19:55:50] <fenn> ok i meant the hal vcp
[19:55:52] <robin_sz> thats a HAL configurator
[19:55:53] <alex_joni> robin_sz: that's the definition
[19:56:04] <robin_sz> of the configuration yes
[19:56:10] <fenn> * fenn squirms
[19:56:27] <robin_sz> the hal VCP is the most promising development in a long time
[19:56:49] <SWPadnos> sort of, but not really (for your customizable UI)
[19:56:53] <alex_joni> ok, I do liek vcp myself
[19:56:59] <alex_joni> like
[19:57:12] <SWPadnos> it's great in many ways, but can't do things like select an NC file
[19:57:12] <alex_joni> but it's not hal gui (as it has been defined)
[19:57:22] <robin_sz> I predict HAL will expand ... more things will become HAL components
[19:57:35] <SWPadnos> and I don't think it will ever have that capability
[19:57:46] <SWPadnos> (since the NC file name isn't a HAL pin :) )
[19:57:46] <fenn> /dev/hal
[19:58:06] <robin_sz> what about when the interprtetr becoems a HAL component?
[19:58:10] <fenn> cat ~/chips.ngc > /dev/hal_rs274
[19:58:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:58:27] <alex_joni> now that's progress towards ease of use
[19:58:31] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't expect that to happen (interpreter HAL com)
[19:58:34] <alex_joni> and dmesg for errors I guess?
[19:58:34] <SWPadnos> comp
[19:58:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shrugs
[19:58:53] <robin_sz> lots of odd things happen
[19:58:57] <fenn> nah you'd use ckermit
[19:59:02] <cradek> as far as I know, that's nobody's vision for emc or hal
[19:59:21] <cradek> dammit I typed something again
[19:59:24] <alex_joni> cradek: at least not of the people who actually work on it
[19:59:30] <robin_sz> what seems obvious to me, is that the HAL concept is proving a useful way of building flexible systems
[19:59:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:59:40] <alex_joni> cradek: it's like a spell.. you can't stay quiet :D
[19:59:46] <cradek> flexible *hardware abstraction*
[19:59:54] <robin_sz> it already does more than originally intended
[20:00:02] <SWPadnos> you need a UAL - User Abstraction Layer for the other stuff ;)
[20:00:19] <fenn> a UHAUL
[20:00:21] <robin_sz> as time passes, I think the VCP concept will grow too
[20:00:34] <alex_joni> I think a LAL would be great
[20:00:49] <alex_joni> a Layer Abstraction Layer
[20:00:51] <fenn> (l)user abstraction layer?
[20:01:00] <alex_joni> one in which you can abstract the HAL
[20:01:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni lost it
[20:01:10] <SWPadnos> there would need to be a significant change to the underlying design of the system for HALVCP to grow into what you're suggesting
[20:01:10] <fenn> abstract it for all its worth
[20:01:35] <SWPadnos> it's not a bad thing, but it's a lot of work that won't be happening until a 2.2 / 3.0 fork I suspect
[20:02:00] <robin_sz> id dint suggest it was trivial
[20:02:15] <robin_sz> and yes, it will probably wait until 3.0
[20:02:26] <robin_sz> but, I think its the way it will go
[20:03:00] <SWPadnos> can you write specs for the capabilities of this UI system?
[20:03:05] <SWPadnos> include at least the following:
[20:03:21] <SWPadnos> 1) how the user designs a UI
[20:03:36] <SWPadnos> 2) what UI components are required
[20:03:49] <SWPadnos> 3) how the UI should communicate with other parts of the system
[20:04:16] <SWPadnos> 4) how this fits into the expected EMC feature set (networked operation, multiple UIs, etc)
[20:04:38] <SWPadnos> 5) etc. etc.
[20:04:41] <SWPadnos> (phonoe)
[20:04:44] <fenn> 6) PROFIT!
[20:04:54] <robin_sz> heh
[20:05:07] <robin_sz> Step 1) steal underpants
[20:05:11] <robin_sz> Step 2) ....
[20:05:19] <robin_sz> step 3) PROFIT!
[20:05:45] <jepler> alex_joni: I think you mean an ALA Abstraction-Layer Abstraction
[20:05:57] <robin_sz> I could probably do the spec more plausably than I could code it
[20:06:05] <jepler> or maybe MAL, Meta-Abstraction-Layer. We can call ours "Petit Mal"
[20:06:35] <jepler> (because, y'know, it would be small and efficient)
[20:06:42] <alex_joni> Meta Abstraction Lower Layer
[20:06:48] <alex_joni> and we call it the MALL
[20:06:52] <robin_sz> thinking aloud,
[20:07:13] <robin_sz> how hard would it be to create a HAL logic signla that stopped or started the interp?
[20:07:14] <alex_joni> and of course the MAUL for the upper layer
[20:08:23] <jepler> robin_sz: there is a feed override pin. If you set it to 0.0 the feed will stop; if you set it to 1.0 it will proceed at the programmed rate.
[20:09:07] <robin_sz> jepler, sure, but that interacts with the trajectory planner right, not the interp?
[20:10:02] <alex_joni> what good would there be to stop the interp from reading a file?
[20:10:11] <fenn> didnt the mazak have a cycle_start button?
[20:10:22] <fenn> did that actually work or did i imagine that?
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> fenn: there are buttons for pause/resume/stop/run
[20:10:40] <alex_joni> but they affect task, not the interp
[20:10:45] <alex_joni> only indirectly
[20:10:47] <robin_sz> right
[20:11:00] <robin_sz> OK, let me re-phrase ...
[20:11:10] <robin_sz> how hard would it be to create a HAL logic signla that stopped or started the task?
[20:11:18] <robin_sz> or has it been doen already?
[20:11:34] <alex_joni> it's done
[20:11:56] <robin_sz> so ... it sounds liek most of what is needed for the underlying core of a GUI is already there
[20:13:21] <robin_sz> perhaps its already much nearer than I thought!
[20:15:41] <robin_sz> oh, wait there was one other bit of Mach that sucked, and yet was brilliant
[20:16:39] <robin_sz> The macros. on the one hand, they are a brillaint way to add complex logic to customisations. on the other hand, they are written in fscking Visual Basic. enough to make you sick :(
[20:20:01] <cradek> it would be interesting if M1xx could return CANON commands to emc
[20:20:09] <Bo^Dick> how much voltage loss is through a diode?
[20:20:20] <cradek> Bo^Dick: depends greatly on the diode
[20:20:49] <Bo^Dick> not a zener but a regular one i.e. 1N4002
[20:21:09] <cradek> maybe .5-.8
[20:21:09] <alex_joni> ~ .7 , but depends on the material it's made off
[20:21:34] <Bo^Dick> so placing 10 in a row would reduce a dc voltage with 5 volts
[20:22:00] <alex_joni> and generate a lot of heat while doing that
[20:22:07] <alex_joni> but it depends on the current
[20:22:15] <alex_joni> why not use a 5V zenner?
[20:22:40] <Bo^Dick> well if a zener is available that is a better option of course
[20:22:55] <alex_joni> don't tell me there are no zener's in sweden..
[20:23:07] <Bo^Dick> diodes are easily obtained from junk and zeners are not
[20:23:53] <alex_joni> I've seen lots of junk with zeners on them
[20:23:56] <alex_joni> like TV sets
[20:24:26] <Bo^Dick> it's bad they look like regular diodes on the outside
[20:25:38] <Bo^Dick> will a zener in series act as a voltage regulator?
[20:26:15] <alex_joni> they need to be connected to Gn
[20:26:18] <alex_joni> Gnd
[20:26:32] <Bo^Dick> that would draw current through them
[20:27:59] <Bo^Dick> like short circuit
[20:31:06] <jepler> draggable, reconfigurable user interface for emc: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/fuglui.py (yes, it's a joke)
[20:41:46] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/emctop.py:
[20:41:46] <CIA-8> * get rid of an extra line at the end
[20:41:46] <CIA-8> * add a vim turd
[20:41:46] <CIA-8> * when poll() fails, destroy the window instead of raise SystemExit
[20:41:46] <CIA-8> (not that poll() fails anyway)
[21:01:50] <asdfq-shop> logger_aj, bookmark
[21:01:50] <asdfq-shop> See
[21:07:30] <bill203> hmm
[21:08:01] <bill203> my brother-in-law is traveling to china, I wonder what a benchtop cnc mill costs there.
[21:08:48] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: fix bug introduced in rev 1.206: feedrate starts at 0src/axis/scripts/axis.py. revise way halcmd is spawned.
[21:09:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/iotaskintf.cc: fixed a strange bug, the emcStatus->io.spindle.speed was beeing set to weird values
[21:10:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: check for a tty before running readline. fix up prompting to work more like the pre-readline version
[21:10:51] <fenn> jepler: awesome work on fuglui.. now we finally have a non-rt gui!!!!1
[21:11:10] <alex_joni> non-rt?
[21:11:28] <fenn> doesnt need emc to run
[21:11:45] <fenn> so you can see it on a normal distro
[21:11:47] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: halconfig is gone, replaced by halshow
[21:13:00] <alex_joni> wonder how it looks like..
[21:13:15] <asdfq-shop> Woo! Yay me, I just scarfed some scrap 8020 extruded aluminum
[21:13:30] <asdfq-shop> And it's only dirty, not even used
[21:14:21] <fenn> you got the bits to connect it together?
[21:15:20] <asdfq-shop> Nope
[21:15:54] <asdfq-shop> But I'll either work around that, or keep my eyes open
[21:19:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni curses CIA-8
[21:21:42] <fenn> lol: search.ebay.com/7627479154
[21:22:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni curses CIA-8 again
[21:24:12] <alex_joni> asdfq-shop: use tape
[21:24:36] <alex_joni> duct tape :D
[21:25:07] <asdfq-shop> steel-reinforced molecular-bonding tape?
[21:27:03] <asdfq-shop> I should invent that...it'd be right up there with a better mousetrap :)
[21:27:17] <alex_joni> lool
[21:28:07] <alex_joni> jepler: you just commited 3 things.. I only got mail for one
[21:28:15] <alex_joni> jepler: did you get them all 3?
[21:34:13] <jepler> alex_joni: I'll check
[21:35:32] <jepler> alex_joni: I think I got e-mails for all my commits
[21:36:52] <alex_joni> ok, got them too.. but not in chronological order
[23:35:48] <alex_joni> off to sleep
[23:35:50] <alex_joni> night all
[23:52:54] <giacus> ahh
[23:53:32] <giacus> 90 % of models in the blender repository contains a note: only for personal use, not for commercial
[23:53:48] <giacus> talking on #blender
[23:54:08] <giacus> they are using a GPL software, but theyr models arent
[23:54:24] <giacus> they like to use free software
[23:54:41] <giacus> but don't understand why commercial use could be an advantage
[23:54:57] <giacus> O_O
[23:55:40] <giacus> it seems peoples stay often with a long hand and a short other
[23:59:23] <giacus> * giacus propose to release emc ONLY for personal use.
[23:59:32] <giacus> and not for peoples under 40
[23:59:45] <giacus> under 37 , really ..