#emc | Logs for 2006-06-27

[00:07:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (Submakefile halcmd.c):
[00:07:22] <CIA-8> complete component names in 'loadrt'
[00:07:22] <CIA-8> use module extension in halcmd when finding name of module to load
[00:07:22] <CIA-8> remove debugging statement from table_generator
[00:08:25] <jepler> jmkasunich: for 'unloadrt' should I give the same list as 'loadrt' (from listing HAL_RTMOD_DIR) or should I look at the registered components instead?
[00:11:14] <jepler> * jepler does the latter
[00:11:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c:
[00:11:52] <CIA-8> complete 'unloadrt'
[00:11:52] <CIA-8> move 'startswith' to fix a compiler warning
[00:12:35] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: fix tools 5,7
[00:14:32] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: slight thinko
[00:21:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c:
[00:21:50] <CIA-8> complete 'loadusr' with files in EMC2_BIN_DIR starting with 'hal' except 'halcmd', or with names from the filesystem if there is no match
[00:21:50] <CIA-8> fix mutex handling for 'unloadrt'
[00:21:50] <CIA-8> fix complletion for 'loadrt' to not come from filesystem
[00:21:50] <CIA-8> ... I think that's it for completions!
[00:22:17] <jepler> .. and only once did I need to reboot beacuse halcmd crashed holding a lock
[00:23:02] <cradek> jepler: the tool shape stuff works great!
[00:24:12] <jepler> cradek: I haven't looked yet at what you had to change
[00:24:23] <cradek> just a couple piddly things
[00:24:50] <cradek> for #7 I had to specify -30 & 30 as the angles, that's the only thing that is a little odd
[00:25:12] <jepler> cradek: can you mark the 'getline' (it says 'readline') task as finished on the task tracker? I can't seem to modify anything, even once logged in. https://sourceforge.net/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=127927&group_id=6744&group_project_id=46285
[00:26:11] <jepler> er, it says 'getline'
[00:26:36] <cradek> I'll try
[00:28:03] <cradek> I think it worked
[00:28:18] <Jymmm> 24"x48"x.75" MDF with .250" holes drilled in a grid pattern every 1" (23*27=621 holes)... I'm pushing my luck I think =(
[00:28:56] <cradek> that's terrific, readline makes halcmd 10x better
[00:28:58] <Jymmm> s/48/28/
[00:32:21] <cradek> wow
[00:32:27] <jepler> Jymmm: that's only about .025 miles!
[00:32:34] <cradek> it's easy to see that the different tool shapes compensate correctly now
[00:33:02] <cradek> I can't believe it but I think we have a lathe controller
[00:33:04] <Jymmm> jepler of holes?!
[00:33:47] <Jymmm> cradek how many shapes do you have?
[00:33:49] <jepler> Jymmm: total travel distance. (1" + 2 * .80" ) per hole * 621 holes
[00:33:56] <cradek> Jymmm: all 9
[00:34:02] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features
[00:34:02] <jepler> cradek: do a screenshot with a "vee" (zero radius) tool
[00:34:16] <cradek> jepler: I didn't try 0 radius yet...
[00:34:50] <jepler> cradek: "it should work" </words class="famous last">
[00:34:54] <cradek> haha
[00:34:59] <Jymmm> cradek when you say 7 shapes, does that include angles too? like 90 deg V, 60 deg V, etc?
[00:35:40] <jepler> Jymmm: there are 9 orientations for tools
[00:35:41] <jepler> shown on that page
[00:35:43] <cradek> Jymmm: look at the picture on that wiki page
[00:36:06] <jepler> within that, you can program the radius and two angles
[00:36:21] <jepler> cradek: but the full gouging tests arent done yet, right?
[00:36:26] <jepler> the angle information is pretty much ignored?
[00:36:33] <cradek> right, it's only for show right now
[00:36:34] <jmkasunich> jepler: yes, using the loaded module list for unloadrt is the right thing
[00:37:06] <Jymmm> jepler ah, ok. that's what I was asking =)
[00:37:27] <jmkasunich> hmm... is "all" one of the possible completions?
[00:37:31] <cradek> radius 0 gives nice triangles
[00:37:40] <jepler> jmkasunich: for "unloadrt"? No, it isn't. It should be?
[00:37:51] <jmkasunich> unloadrt all unloads everything
[00:38:06] <jmkasunich> its short enough that it doesn't really need completion tho
[00:38:15] <cradek> jepler: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/zerorad.png
[00:38:59] <jmkasunich> cradek: damn, you got me wishing my lathe was converted
[00:39:06] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: give 'all' as an alternative to unloadrt
[00:39:11] <jepler> cradek: sweet
[00:39:12] <cradek> jmkasunich: you are NOT the only one
[00:40:13] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/LOOKOUT.png
[00:40:23] <jepler> Jymmm: in case you missed them earlier, two more screenshots from axis: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/axis-lathe-tool-o6.png http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/axis-lathe-tool.png
[00:40:31] <cradek> the "middle" line is the programmed path
[00:40:44] <cradek> the top one is the path an orientation-2 tool takes
[00:40:54] <cradek> the bottom one is the path an orientation-7 tool takes, but as you can see, it's about to gouge
[00:41:23] <jepler> bbl
[00:45:06] <jmkasunich> cradek: tool is moving right to left?
[00:45:10] <cradek> yes
[00:45:19] <jmkasunich> you just plain can't cut that part with that tool
[00:45:23] <cradek> nope
[00:45:44] <jmkasunich> emc doesn't detect that problem, does it?
[00:45:48] <cradek> nope
[00:45:50] <cradek> not yet
[00:46:27] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/tool2.png
[00:46:28] <jmkasunich> I take it the angles and the radius are in the tool table?
[00:46:40] <cradek> you can certainly cut it with a tool in orientation 2, like this
[00:46:51] <cradek> yes that's all in the tool table
[00:47:09] <cradek> also X and Z offsets (just like tool length offset, but both directions)
[00:47:36] <jmkasunich> are the "orientation numbers" in the tool table? or used by emc at all? or are they just a communication/visualization aid for humans
[00:47:56] <cradek> yes the orientation numbers are in the table
[00:48:03] <jmkasunich> hmm
[00:48:06] <cradek> their primary purpose is to describe where the origin is
[00:48:08] <Jymmm> jepler: looking...
[00:48:13] <jmkasunich> what about orientation 1.75
[00:48:22] <cradek> ?
[00:48:26] <jmkasunich> (iow, the tool isn't at a 45 degree angle)
[00:48:37] <cradek> you specify that with the angles
[00:48:40] <jmkasunich> or do you call it 2 to specify where the origin is, then specify the angles
[00:48:42] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[00:48:43] <cradek> the orientation is solely about the origin
[00:48:50] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:49:06] <jmkasunich> I obviously gotta re-read that wiki page in depth (one of these days)
[00:49:17] <cradek> my tool 2 in this picture is just 5 degrees from vertical but it's a 60 degree tool
[00:49:24] <cradek> (like a triangular insert)
[00:49:39] <cradek> which is actually a tool I'll be using
[00:50:13] <Jymmm> Can you define a tool's shape?
[00:50:19] <Jymmm> (profile)
[00:50:23] <cradek> the origin the intersection of the lines you get when you face and when you turn, so you can measure it with your tools
[00:50:40] <cradek> Jymmm: that's what we're talking about?
[00:50:48] <jmkasunich> btw (not to change the subject) jules borel was happy to take my order for a couple watch crystals and gaskets
[00:50:54] <cradek> that's great to hear
[00:51:06] <cradek> I'm glad they've modernized
[00:51:28] <jmkasunich> even tho I ordered by phone, they asked for an email and sent an order ack
[00:51:35] <jmkasunich> they also promise another email when it ships
[00:51:39] <cradek> cool
[00:52:11] <Jymmm> cradek: LOL, Oh, THAT's what guys are takin bout =) (I just try to pick up pieces here and there, and just nod in agreement for everything else)
[00:52:22] <jmkasunich> "
[00:52:22] <jmkasunich> I would like to see a step by step tutorial to connect an encoder to
[00:52:22] <jmkasunich> EMC2 and see the output to the screen. Please email to stuart@mpm1.com"
[00:52:42] <jmkasunich> I would like to see world peace. please email to me@world.net
[00:52:42] <cradek> yeah I saw that
[00:52:47] <cradek> hahaha
[00:53:16] <jmkasunich> I admit a few tutorials would be nice, but that ain't the way to ask for one
[00:53:21] <Jymmm> http://www.mpm1.com/
[00:53:31] <cradek> "be sure to email it to just me, so nobody else can benefit"
[00:53:52] <cradek> "and beware I don't want to actually learn about emc, I just want my encoder hooked up"
[00:54:05] <cradek> * cradek shuts up now
[00:54:18] <Jymmm> Note the last person on this page... http://www.mpm1.com/princ.html
[00:54:23] <jmkasunich> and I'm not a hobbiest or an enthusiast, just a business that want to make money
[00:54:42] <cradek> and I'll be careful to never contribute anything back to the project.
[00:55:43] <cradek> Jymmm: nice find
[00:56:02] <Jymmm> =)
[00:57:55] <jepler> cradek: part of me says that the cutter positions (besides 9) can be determined based on the angles .. and even that one would be determined by angle1 = angle2 = 0
[00:58:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: You should reply back with the following: Hi Stuart, We we be glad to create the tutorial you have requested. Please find our development and tech-writing pricing list below. We estimate this it be apx 20 hours.
[00:58:44] <cradek> jepler: I can imagine setting up a tool that actually looks like #2 as #6 to get the origin where you want it
[00:59:13] <giacus> ah
[00:59:19] <cradek> #6 or #7
[00:59:43] <jepler> cradek: hm, I see
[01:00:20] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: handle t0 gracefully (draw the cone)
[01:00:51] <jmkasunich> I was gonna ask about that /\
[01:01:15] <cradek> if no tool is loaded, you get the regular old cone
[01:01:49] <Jymmm> jepler: Whne I said earlier "pushing my luck", this is for the new bed of my router.
[01:06:57] <jmkasunich> I want to modify the hal "save" command so it can save to a file...
[01:07:18] <jmkasunich> right now, "save" saves everything, so "save <filename>" makes perfect sense
[01:07:36] <jmkasunich> but save also accepts an item type, like "save param"
[01:07:42] <cradek> yay for halcmd no longer being setuid
[01:08:10] <cradek> now it just outputs to stdout?
[01:08:12] <jmkasunich> to prevent things like save /etc/passwd
[01:08:16] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:08:17] <cradek> yes
[01:08:26] <jmkasunich> what was fine when the interactive mode was a pain to use
[01:08:34] <jmkasunich> s/what/that
[01:09:10] <jmkasunich> but now that interactive mode is nice, I can see doing a long session of building and tuning, then wanting to save
[01:09:17] <cradek> I can too
[01:09:32] <jmkasunich> you can always do "quit", then "halcmd save >foo"
[01:09:32] <cradek> well that was always possible
[01:09:40] <jmkasunich> but "save foo" is nicer
[01:10:33] <Jymmm> "Save As..." ?
[01:10:34] <cradek> it's scary since I'm used to comments etc, but maybe I'll start using halcmd save now
[01:10:54] <cradek> my configs are generally just one halfile
[01:11:09] <jmkasunich> I think I favor that approach too
[01:11:19] <jmkasunich> for a while I was doing things in a kind of modular way
[01:11:29] <jmkasunich> hence "core-servo.hal" etc
[01:12:04] <jmkasunich> I wish we could have "save" and keep comments too
[01:12:25] <jepler> * jepler boggles
[01:12:31] <jepler> sounds like a real challenge
[01:12:41] <jmkasunich> thats why I said "I wish"
[01:12:47] <jmkasunich> I know it isn't practical
[01:13:27] <jmkasunich> its like source code in a way
[01:13:51] <jmkasunich> you can decompile an executable into source that will rebuild the executable, but that isn't the same has having the original source
[01:14:45] <jepler> but you have the old source to refer too
[01:15:00] <jepler> src.hal + internal state of hal now -> src'.hal
[01:15:17] <jepler> all you have to do is update the comments to reflect the new meaning of hal's internal state
[01:15:20] <jepler> NLP is fun
[01:15:53] <jmkasunich> I'll pass on that program
[01:16:35] <jmkasunich> actually, _if_ you knew the original .hal file, (and if there is only one, not a batch of em), you could to a fair approximation of something smart
[01:16:44] <jmkasunich> read the hal file line by line
[01:17:10] <jmkasunich> if you see an setp, replace whatever value is in the src with the new value
[01:17:31] <jmkasunich> when you get to the end, output setp's for any params not previously covered
[01:17:45] <jmkasunich> likewise with lots (but not all) of the other stuff
[01:17:48] <jmkasunich> newsigs, links, etc
[01:18:42] <jmkasunich> still not simple, but it is a closed form problem I think
[01:19:21] <jmkasunich> anyway, I'm gonna back way up and deal with my initial issue
[01:19:52] <jmkasunich> if the user says "save param" does he mean "save params to stdout", or "save everything to a file called param" ;-/
[01:20:07] <jepler> is the problem the ambiguity between "save what" and "save /foo.hal"? If so, require "save what where" if you want to save to a file
[01:20:29] <jmkasunich> with an explicit "all" as the what
[01:20:32] <jmkasunich> I can do that
[01:20:33] <jepler> yes
[01:20:52] <jmkasunich> thank you... just needed to look at the problem differently
[01:21:34] <jepler> I've got perspective I ain't even used yet
[01:22:24] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich wonders if he's gonna recognize or understand the halcmd parsing code anymore
[01:22:55] <jmkasunich> dang, 3380 lines in halcmd.c
[01:23:03] <jepler> I probably added the last 380 of them
[01:23:08] <jmkasunich> wonder if its due for splitting into shorter files?
[01:23:32] <jmkasunich> its been growing slowly for a long time
[01:24:14] <jmkasunich> might not be too hard to split out the command parsing code (including readline, etc) and the code that actually executes the various commands
[01:24:18] <jepler> 'ifdef have_readline' is on line 2960 ..
[01:24:42] <jmkasunich> having the "execute" code in a separate file might be handy for other programs that want to do halcmdish stuff
[01:24:46] <jepler> yeah that would be neat
[01:25:14] <jmkasunich> not tonight tho
[01:25:24] <jepler> but we don't want to end up with 'HALCMD = haltclsh' and 2 or 3 more incompatible halcmd implementations
[01:25:33] <jmkasunich> eww
[01:25:48] <jepler> so best not to enable it in the first place :-P
[01:26:15] <jmkasunich> you gonna be around for a bit?
[01:26:24] <jepler> in hal, can a pin go away while it still has signals attached to it?
[01:26:39] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:26:40] <jepler> I'll probably be paying some attention for at least 1h more tonight
[01:26:46] <jmkasunich> it will be disconnected automagically
[01:27:12] <jmkasunich> when you call hal_exit(), all your pins get disconnected then removed
[01:27:28] <jepler> but there's no separate delete for pins (or params)
[01:27:37] <jmkasunich> likewise, your functions get removed from threads, before the code gets removed from memory
[01:27:51] <jmkasunich> no, pins belong to an instance of a component
[01:28:14] <jmkasunich> someday I want you to be able to remove a component
[01:28:37] <jmkasunich> for instance, using blocks, you should be able to remove or add a "ddt" block, without having to unload the whole module
[01:29:10] <jmkasunich> or add another stepgen without removing and reloading the stepgen module and having to redo the 3 channels you already had
[01:29:59] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.tbl: a nice set of tools for testing
[01:30:00] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/lathecomp.ngc: a nice set of tools for testing
[01:31:52] <jmkasunich> jepler: trying to come up to speed on the readline changes without actually learning all of readline
[01:32:05] <jmkasunich> if I ask too many questions feel free to say RTFM...
[01:32:15] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. As you may be aware, we've had an operator staff password compromise. We're still investigating, and you should definitely take the opportunity to change your nickserv and chanserv passwords. Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for your understanding.
[01:32:23] <jmkasunich> that said: is replace_vars() the magic call that makes it happen?
[01:33:49] <lilo> [Global Notice] (This is the same attack from a couple of days ago....nothing new. Thanks.)
[01:34:15] <jmkasunich> duh
[01:34:34] <jmkasunich> replace_vars is for ini file variable replacement, not readline expansion
[01:36:14] <jmkasunich> hmm, looks like "prompt_mode" is a dead variable
[01:37:51] <jmkasunich> "jepler .. and only once did I need to reboot beacuse halcmd crashed holding a lock"
[01:38:03] <jmkasunich> just so you know - thats what "halcmd -R" is for
[01:38:20] <jmkasunich> undocumented option that simply releases the mutex and exits
[01:41:50] <cradek> ok this is cool, I fixed the bug I was trying to not see, and now I don't see any more
[01:56:53] <jepler> jmkasunich: the readline stuff is all at the end
[01:57:09] <jepler> jmkasunich: all input goes through get_input()
[01:57:12] <jmkasunich> yeah, I'm starting to understand
[01:57:25] <jepler> which calls readine() which may call rl_attempted_completion_function
[01:57:30] <jmkasunich> for the save thing I don't think I have to mess with that at all
[01:57:42] <jepler> the only thing you might want to do is enable filename completion for the second argument
[01:58:00] <jmkasunich> completion on the filename isn't very usefull, you probably want a file name that doesn't already exist
[01:58:15] <jepler> in completer(), text points at the partial current word, start and end say where it is within the full line, rl_line_buffer
[01:58:43] <jepler> rl_completion_matches repeatedly calls the function pointer it's given and gets back a (malloc'd) string each time, stopping at NULL
[02:00:17] <jmkasunich> in get_input(), I moved the declarations of first_time and rlbuf in front of the if(srcfile == stdin) line to make older pure C compilers happy
[02:00:20] <jepler> and some layer we aren't looking at decides whether to insert or show a list of completions
[02:00:33] <jmkasunich> I think SWP spotted that yesterday
[02:00:42] <jepler> sounds fine -- that's one C++/C99 feature I don't even realize I'm using
[02:00:53] <jepler> if there's a warning option for it we should enable it .. I'll look into that
[02:02:26] <jepler> -Wdeclaration-after-statement (C only)
[02:02:56] <jmkasunich> thats not included in -Wall I guess
[02:03:40] <jmkasunich> oh fun, I get to convert about 20 rtapi_print(....) calls to fprintf(dst,....)
[02:03:47] <jmkasunich> dunno why I used rtapi_print in the first place
[02:04:01] <jmkasunich> its mostly for code that might be used in kernel space
[02:05:36] <jepler> vim: ct"fprintf(std, "^[
[02:05:40] <jepler> unless the formats are not literals
[02:05:57] <jepler> then . on each successive rtapi_print to be changed
[02:06:07] <jmkasunich> I'm using kate
[02:06:12] <jmkasunich> but I was able to do a replace
[02:06:24] <jmkasunich> I thought there would be more variation, but it turned out to be easy
[02:06:59] <jepler> do you suppose this "determine if gcc supports option foo" code I found in the Linux 2.6 makefile is "portable enough"?
[02:07:07] <jepler> +cc-option = $(shell if $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(1) -S -o /dev/null -xc /dev/null \
[02:07:07] <jepler> + > /dev/null 2>&1; then echo "$(1)"; else echo "$(2)"; fi ;)
[02:07:19] <jepler> used like: +DEBUG := -g -Wall $(call cc-option, -Wdeclaration-after-statement)
[02:07:25] <jepler> it works here (includes the -W...)
[02:07:29] <jepler> I suppose the farm will tell me if it's wrong
[02:07:45] <jepler> hal/utils/halcmd.c:3368: warning: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code
[02:08:22] <jmkasunich> give it a shot
[02:08:32] <jmkasunich> add to the makefile and commit
[02:08:43] <jmkasunich> don't fix the halcmd line
[02:09:34] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile: use -Wdeclaration-after-statement when available (diagnoses the 'jepler error')
[02:20:47] <LawrenceG> jepler: hello... are you still by the keyboard?
[02:20:51] <jepler> LawrenceG: yeah
[02:21:42] <LawrenceG> I am attempting to do some python programming.... some socket and audio streaming.... is there any chance you may have some code fragments relating to those 2 subjects?
[02:22:31] <jepler> I've done some http with urllib .. I've never done any audio with python
[02:22:45] <LawrenceG> you seem to be one of the python gurus :)
[02:22:54] <jepler> people think that anyway
[02:23:11] <jepler> have you tried #python? sometimes you can get good help there
[02:23:14] <cradek> don't be fooled, he just looks smart next to me
[02:24:06] <LawrenceG> ok.. cool... there seems to be some audiodev stuff on the net, but I havent found any applications to refresh my long lost python neurons
[02:24:28] <LawrenceG> will lurk on #python
[02:24:40] <jepler> ok .. sorry I don't have that specific knowledge
[02:25:18] <LawrenceG> np
[02:28:57] <jepler> 'ossaudiodev'?
[02:30:01] <LawrenceG> yes.... I thought there might be some alsa libs as alsa seems to have superceeded oss recently
[02:31:39] <LawrenceG> I have a simple ap where I want to take audio from a sound device and blindly fire it out a UDP socket... the side receiving it is a little harder as it has do do some s/n analysis on multiple incoming audio streams
[02:32:01] <jepler> I have found one program of mine that uses 'ossaudiodev', but only to change the mixer
[02:32:15] <LawrenceG> I am not sure whether to attack it in C or python..... it looks like the python program will be quite a bit shorter than a c program
[02:33:51] <jepler> this is my program that uses ossaudiodev's mixer to control the volume: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/volumed.py
[02:34:26] <LawrenceG> you and Chris have done wonders with axis... I would like to get more proficient in python
[02:34:38] <jepler> thanks
[02:35:22] <LawrenceG> thanks for the example....
[02:35:23] <jmkasunich> jepler: I want to add completions for the save types
[02:35:32] <jmkasunich> similar to the show types
[02:35:34] <jepler> unfortunately I don't think it makes a good project for beginners to understand...
[02:35:43] <jmkasunich> so I need a table like show_table
[02:35:49] <jmkasunich> what else do I need to do?
[02:36:36] <jepler> jmkasunich: OK .. first define the NULL-terminated char *[] .. then a pair of lines like the ones for 'show table'
[02:37:07] <jepler> } else if(startswith(rl_line_buffer, "save ") && argno == 1) {
[02:37:07] <jepler> result = completion_matches_table(text, save_table);
[02:37:18] <jmkasunich> ok, save_table is done
[02:38:18] <jepler> to enable filename completion, it would look something like
[02:38:19] <jepler> } else if(startswith(rl_line_buffer, "save ") && argno == 2) {
[02:38:19] <jepler> rtapi_mutex_give(&(hal_data->mutex));
[02:38:19] <jepler> // leaves rl_attempted_completion_over = 0 to complete from filesystem
[02:38:19] <jepler> return NULL;
[02:40:07] <jmkasunich> that part lost me
[02:40:19] <jepler> the argno == 2 part? Just forget it for now
[02:40:23] <jmkasunich> but as I said before, completion on that arg doesn't strike me as usefull
[02:40:35] <jepler> I think it might be useful to complete the directory component
[02:40:42] <jmkasunich> I suppose
[02:40:49] <jepler> but let's just skip it
[02:40:58] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:41:11] <jepler> I don't feel like explaining what I think readline is doing here
[02:41:31] <jmkasunich> I don't feel like trying to understand it either ;-)
[02:41:49] <jmkasunich> heh, it works
[02:43:18] <jmkasunich> thats interesting... "safe link foo" does nothing (including no error message)
[02:43:32] <jmkasunich> I meant to type "save link foo"
[02:43:55] <jmkasunich> ok, I think thats a bug
[02:44:29] <jmkasunich> "foo" is treated like "show all foo" (show any items named foo) so you get headers but no other output
[02:44:54] <jmkasunich> "foo foo" and "foo foo foo" (and probably longer ones) results in no output, no warning, nothing
[02:45:17] <jepler> there seem to be a lot of things that don't warn
[02:46:31] <jmkasunich> line 808 (or therabouts, in the HEAD version) handles the "unknown command" case
[02:47:01] <jmkasunich> I think the intent was to make it easy to find the value of a single item
[02:47:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.hh: allow the EMC version to be checked by other software (AXIS). claim we're 2.1.0.
[02:49:05] <jmkasunich> eww
[02:49:29] <jmkasunich> what about VERSION?
[02:50:12] <jepler> how do you check that with the C preprocessor? #if strstr(...) just won't work
[02:50:35] <jmkasunich> true, but now we have redundant definitions of version
[02:51:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/ (axisversion.h emcmodule.cc gcodemodule.cc): restore compatability with emc2.0.x
[02:51:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: restore compatability with emc2.0.x
[02:51:04] <jmkasunich> maybe the cpp compatible one should be the master
[02:52:20] <jepler> if you want to change (improve) it, please do. I'll change AXIS however it needs to
[02:52:37] <jmkasunich> not tonight, I want to finish up the halcmd stuff
[02:52:46] <jepler> the major/minor/micro scheme doesn't provide any good way to talk about TESTING releases, for instance...
[02:52:57] <jmkasunich> actually, "save what [file] " is finished
[02:53:01] <jmkasunich> right
[02:53:05] <jepler> see you later
[02:53:27] <jmkasunich> also, testing packages cause grief - we need to rethink how we manage such things
[02:53:50] <jmkasunich> seems like a user can have either a testing package or a released package, but not both
[02:54:20] <jmkasunich> and the update manager might start nagging them if it thinks their version isn't the latest (they may want to stay with the released instead of testing)
[03:09:27] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: added the ability to save hal config directly to a file instead of going thru stdout - handy when running halcmd interactively
[03:16:35] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: Report an unknown command 'foo' as such, instead of treating it like 'show all foo'. If this breaks some script or tcl program, may need to revert (or fix the script).
[03:38:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: In that pic you showed me of five pcs being clamp with the step blocks... Is the bolt furtherest away from teh material acting like a fulcrum point?
[03:41:36] <Jymmm> jmkasunich or was it one bolt, like this --> http://www.quantumcnc.co.uk/Quantum/images/DSCN0151.JPG
[05:16:20] <A-L-P-H-A> sup people?
[05:26:47] <Jymmm> just trying to come up with some ideas for clamps
[06:11:50] <A-L-P-H-A> lobster claws.
[06:23:07] <Jymmm> ?
[06:32:32] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A ???
[06:32:58] <alex_joni> Jymmm: seen these? http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/photography/01151248639
[06:33:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Clean you lens!!!!!!!!!!!!
[06:34:05] <alex_joni> Jymmm: it wasn't the lens :(
[06:34:08] <alex_joni> it was the sensor
[06:34:10] <Jymmm> I like 4715
[06:34:11] <alex_joni> and .. I cleaned it
[06:35:37] <Jymmm> btw, dont use compressed air
[06:35:57] <alex_joni> I didn't
[06:36:17] <alex_joni> used one of those cotton ear thingies
[06:36:32] <Jymmm> qtip?
[06:36:34] <alex_joni> not the best tool.. but that's what I had available
[06:36:41] <alex_joni> the ones you clean your ears with
[06:36:46] <Jymmm> no no no
[06:36:51] <alex_joni> I know..
[06:36:54] <alex_joni> :/
[06:36:58] <Jymmm> they can scratch the CCD
[06:37:07] <alex_joni> I didn't touch the CCD
[06:37:14] <Jymmm> or the mirror
[06:37:58] <Jymmm> get yourself one of those puffy bulbs
[06:38:14] <A-L-P-H-A> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01151248639/IMG_4894.JPG <-- is that AJ?
[06:38:21] <A-L-P-H-A> it's soo Neo.
[06:38:35] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... clean your lense... there's a smudge.
[06:38:49] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: no, not me ;)
[06:38:56] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, liar.
[06:38:58] <Jymmm> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01151248639/IMG_4906.JPG
[06:39:05] <alex_joni> I'm 4863
[06:39:16] <A-L-P-H-A> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01151248639/IMG_4906.JPG <-- this guy?
[06:39:25] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Nah, that's too much of a pretty boy to be alex_joni =)
[06:39:30] <alex_joni> lol
[06:39:49] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahhaa... look at your socks. http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01151248639/IMG_4863.JPG
[06:40:14] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: wot?
[06:40:20] <A-L-P-H-A> "Hey everyone!!! I'm infront of this historic monument... BUT WAIT!!! There's MORE!!! LOOK AT MY WHITE SOCKS!!
[06:40:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni how many lenses do you have?
[06:40:53] <A-L-P-H-A> LOL... I'm just teasing your fashion statement.
[06:41:04] <alex_joni> Jymmm: only took one with me in that trip
[06:41:08] <alex_joni> 18-55
[06:41:16] <A-L-P-H-A> Lenses are so expensive.
[06:41:20] <alex_joni> the stock one (not the high end :D)
[06:41:26] <alex_joni> I have another 75-300
[06:41:37] <A-L-P-H-A> woohoo! his blog is in English!
[06:42:14] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: not really a blog
[06:42:21] <alex_joni> I hardly add content
[06:42:39] <A-L-P-H-A> June 25.
[06:42:41] <A-L-P-H-A> June 16
[06:42:42] <Jymmm> alex_joni Ah, I mostly use my 18-70, but I carry with me my 70-300.
[06:42:45] <A-L-P-H-A> June 10
[06:42:50] <A-L-P-H-A> More updates than my blog.
[06:42:52] <A-L-P-H-A> www.lloydleung.com
[06:43:42] <Jymmm> alex_joni you have the full image of 4879 up somewhere?
[06:44:43] <alex_joni> yes, want it?
[06:44:51] <A-L-P-H-A> wth... google.com won't load up for me.
[06:44:52] <Jymmm> please
[06:44:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it's time for a reboot
[06:45:02] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I have quite a few ones like that
[06:45:29] <A-L-P-H-A> brb...
[06:45:49] <Jymmm> alex_joni maybe 4890 too
[06:47:37] <alex_joni> dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/jymmm/
[06:49:34] <alex_joni> Jymmm: holler if you want more ;)
[06:50:44] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[06:50:44] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[06:52:39] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder what it would take to topple the remaining columns?
[06:53:11] <alex_joni> they just started to put them back
[06:53:18] <alex_joni> and you want to trash it.. :/
[06:53:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm a male with testosterone... I used to build my lego creations, and then blow them up with imaginary missiles from robots or whatnot.
[07:09:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Taking pics of sheep's butts I see
[07:11:52] <A-L-P-H-A> it's for spanking smut for later.
[07:12:07] <Jymmm> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/photography/01147700866/IMG_3952.JPG
[07:12:55] <A-L-P-H-A> there are just roaming farm animals in the city??
[07:13:08] <A-L-P-H-A> that can't be good for hygene
[07:13:13] <Jymmm> looks like a small road to me
[07:13:47] <A-L-P-H-A> looks like the edge of the city.
[07:13:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ./town
[07:14:47] <Jymmm> maybe alex_joni lieks keeping his date... err sheep close.
[10:50:10] <bullzebub> hello
[10:50:54] <bullzebub> i got a problem... (as that was unusual!)
[10:52:00] <bullzebub> "insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 Invalid module format"
[10:52:28] <bullzebub> and a few similar to that one...
[10:56:49] <giacus> morning
[10:56:55] <A-L-P-H-A> hi giacus.
[10:57:03] <giacus> hi A-L-P-H-A
[10:57:19] <A-L-P-H-A> it's afternoon for you. :P :)
[10:57:27] <giacus> 13:04
[10:57:35] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, I know... I ctcp time'd you. :)
[10:57:52] <giacus> there ?
[10:58:00] <A-L-P-H-A> if you type "/ctcp <nick> time", you usually get that person's time.
[10:58:16] <giacus> yes
[10:59:59] <fenn> bullzebub: is your gcc the same version as the gcc used to compile the kernel?
[11:03:41] <bullzebub> fenn eh? i dont know? how can i check that?
[11:03:48] <fenn> good question
[11:04:15] <bullzebub> hehe ...
[11:04:17] <fenn> whats dpkg -l |grep gcc say
[11:05:03] <bullzebub> ii gcc 4.0.1-3
[11:05:19] <bullzebub> ii gcc-3.3-base 3.3.6-8ubuntu1
[11:07:11] <bullzebub> ii gcc-4.0 4.0.1-4ubuntu9
[11:07:35] <fenn> ok what's cat /proc/version say?
[11:09:43] <bullzebub> Linux version 2.6.12-9-386 (buildd@rothera) (gcc version 3.4.5 20050809 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 3.4.4-6ubuntu8)) #1 Mon Oct 10 13:14:36 BST 2005
[11:10:22] <fenn> ah well, in addition to being compiled with the wrong gcc version, it looks like its not a rt patched kernel
[11:11:42] <bullzebub> hmm ... so what should i do about it?
[11:11:57] <fenn> have you rebooted since getting the emc packages?
[11:14:15] <bullzebub> no
[11:14:36] <fenn> right :)
[11:14:52] <fenn> reboot and see what happens
[11:19:22] <giacus> looking for EMC2 tutorials collection on CD/DVD or ISO file, in italian, with high resolution images and graphics(1280x1024) and perphas videoclips, video presentations and multimedia files using a popoular codec, etc., explaining how EMC2 work. If its a CD or DVD up to 800 mb you could send me it by mail, or using bit torrent. Thanks.
[11:19:38] <giacus> :)
[11:20:51] <bullzebub> fenn: it works now .. thnx alot :-)
[11:21:41] <fenn> giacus: ah i was wondering what you were working on :P
[11:22:18] <giacus> fenn: reading mails ..
[11:22:23] <giacus> :D
[11:24:55] <giacus> * giacus feels allowed to ask for it.
[11:26:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[11:30:31] <giacus> contact my secretary if you already have it
[11:36:56] <bullzebub> what type of emc are you giys running? (emv axis tkems?
[11:37:39] <giacus> AXIS
[11:38:15] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, i don't think there is a IT version of documentation for EMC.
[11:38:21] <A-L-P-H-A> or are you saying you're working on it?
[11:38:44] <giacus> nope..
[11:38:49] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab... gonna make some expensive coffee. :D I should really thank my friend for the coffee. :)
[11:38:58] <giacus> I hope some other is doing it
[11:39:13] <fenn> eh just run it thru google translator and correct the obvious mistakes
[11:52:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I still haven't been able to figure out the G translator.
[11:52:44] <anonimasu> hm
[11:53:41] <A-L-P-H-A> partly cause I use world.altavista.com
[11:53:54] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[11:53:57] <anonimasu> I long until today is over
[11:54:06] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is having a hell-ish day at work
[11:54:50] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, where are you?
[11:55:06] <A-L-P-H-A> what a useless burn of DVD.
[11:55:08] <A-L-P-H-A> no audio.
[11:55:08] <anonimasu> at work
[11:55:10] <A-L-P-H-A> :|
[11:55:14] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, location.
[11:56:21] <anonimasu> at the office
[11:57:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not going to play this game.
[11:57:13] <anonimasu> what game?
[11:57:24] <anonimasu> I'm i north sweden, alvsbyn.. at the office where I work
[11:58:05] <A-L-P-H-A> Sweden is also GMT?
[11:58:19] <anonimasu> hm +2 I think
[11:58:26] <anonimasu> err +1
[11:58:29] <anonimasu> it is
[11:58:32] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[11:58:44] <A-L-P-H-A> GMT doesn't do daylights savings and crap like that. [which is good]
[11:58:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:58:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I hate this daylights saving and crap.
[11:58:56] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid war.
[11:58:57] <anonimasu> me too
[11:59:35] <anonimasu> hm the pda I were going to use for work/ui went sold out in 3 hours
[12:00:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Hey! that's cruel... China doesn't have multiple timezones.
[12:00:18] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:00:30] <A-L-P-H-A> those poor people on the west end of the dessert... have to wake up during dark
[12:00:54] <anonimasu> I wonder if the ipaq has rs232
[12:01:52] <giacus> no
[12:02:01] <giacus> pcmcia slot
[12:02:20] <anonimasu> hm crap.
[12:02:29] <A-L-P-H-A> PCMCIA (cardbus) to rs232 or to parallel.
[12:02:36] <A-L-P-H-A> $20CDN + tax + shipping
[12:02:43] <anonimasu> hm, for the card?
[12:02:49] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[12:02:53] <anonimasu> I need to be able to grab them locally
[12:03:05] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu. can't help you out there.
[12:03:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I could buy a bulk shipment for you. :D
[12:03:41] <A-L-P-H-A> or just buy laptops that hvae parallel ports.
[12:03:43] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/ipaq/index.html
[12:03:47] <giacus> :)
[12:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus. what do you do?
[12:04:01] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: not possible
[12:04:26] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: need to have them quick booting and easy mount
[12:04:32] <anonimasu> and handle shock :)
[12:04:37] <A-L-P-H-A> okay.. USB -> Parallel isn't real time is it?
[12:04:53] <anonimasu> will that work with a ipaq?
[12:05:02] <anonimasu> going to run it as a interface for a machine
[12:05:16] <anonimasu> dosent have to be realtime
[12:05:39] <fenn> if it has irda it probably has rs232 (or can be hacked)
[12:06:00] <anonimasu> fenn: that's not really practical
[12:06:10] <fenn> http://www.serialio.com/products/adaptors/iPaqSerial_RS232.htm
[12:06:32] <A-L-P-H-A> not bad deal... http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1367764&CatId=2217
[12:06:37] <giacus> fenn: its slow
[12:06:50] <anonimasu> bah, I can buy a fujitsu siemens n560
[12:06:52] <anonimasu> instead..
[12:07:00] <giacus> pcmcia should be the solution
[12:07:02] <anonimasu> if it means having to hack to get serial..
[12:07:04] <fenn> A-L-P-H-A: you post the weirdest links
[12:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> http://sewelldirect.com/ParallelPCMCIACard.asp
[12:08:20] <giacus> the zaurus its nice
[12:08:45] <giacus> by sharp If I remember ..
[12:09:07] <giacus> hard to find in EU I guess
[12:09:19] <A-L-P-H-A> http://sewelldirect.com/QuatechParallelPCMCIACard.asp
[12:11:19] <anonimasu> I have one already..
[12:11:20] <anonimasu> heh
[12:11:43] <anonimasu> but this is for a production machine the less special stuff the better..
[12:13:08] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, what's the criteria?
[12:13:25] <A-L-P-H-A> if you have scoped out the machine yet... pick a laptop that DOES have a parallel port.
[12:13:39] <anonimasu> I dont need a paralell port
[12:13:40] <anonimasu> I need a serial
[12:13:49] <anonimasu> and I need a machine that can withstand shock..
[12:13:57] <anonimasu> and perferably boot in 3 secs
[12:14:07] <anonimasu> and be able to run gps software
[12:14:28] <anonimasu> mounting a laptop where there are space constraints is no fun thing to do
[12:14:37] <giacus> I'd buy this: http://www.sub500.com/lite.htm
[12:14:42] <anonimasu> maybe one of thoose micro itx is better..
[12:14:51] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[12:14:58] <giacus> 2.9 lbs
[12:15:00] <A-L-P-H-A> then i don't know of anything beside a PDA.
[12:15:08] <anonimasu> maybe a mini itx box..
[12:15:11] <A-L-P-H-A> dell->axim
[12:15:16] <A-L-P-H-A> OOOOOOOh.
[12:15:24] <anonimasu> with flash memory and windows mobile
[12:15:28] <A-L-P-H-A> sec. let me find one
[12:15:30] <A-L-P-H-A> hang on.
[12:15:31] <anonimasu> win mobile 5.0
[12:15:35] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the space requirement?
[12:15:37] <anonimasu> I have a reatiler for thoose..
[12:15:43] <anonimasu> as small as possible..
[12:15:52] <fenn> is it supposed to be an interface device or just run software?
[12:15:52] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, HANG on.
[12:16:02] <anonimasu> interface device..
[12:16:53] <giacus> anonimasu: with that you can use a real keyboard to type
[12:16:56] <fenn> can one poke at a pda screen with greasy fat fingers?
[12:17:14] <giacus> and its small and light
[12:17:23] <A-L-P-H-A> http://news.digitaltrends.com/article9945.html coupled with http://www.epicempire.com/computers/space-cube.html
[12:18:15] <anonimasu> hm, did check the pda screensize it were a bit small
[12:18:21] <fenn> i think a hard drive is the last thing he needs
[12:18:29] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, is the second link any use?
[12:18:33] <anonimasu> looking
[12:18:49] <giacus> argh phone ??
[12:19:30] <anonimasu> Not really
[12:19:43] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, post your criterias... as that did have what you said you needed.
[12:19:52] <giacus> be ready to swear with that ..
[12:21:19] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: the main trouble is with disk drives in laptops
[12:21:26] <anonimasu> teh second trouble is mounting..
[12:21:28] <fenn> anonimasu: dunno if you've seen these puppies yet, but they look pretty good to me: http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7200-spec-p.php
[12:21:49] <fenn> that with one of those small industrial lcd touchscreens
[12:21:58] <anonimasu> hm, that'd be perfect
[12:22:23] <fenn> heh thats not what i expected you to say :P
[12:22:37] <anonimasu> but, size isnt _that_ critical
[12:22:40] <anonimasu> but a main point..
[12:22:50] <anonimasu> I have a candidate for something but
[12:22:59] <anonimasu> im not sure about if its the way to go
[12:23:13] <anonimasu> it has to run windows btw :/
[12:23:44] <anonimasu> has to run a gps app in the background
[12:24:22] <anonimasu> heh sorry about the poor spec
[12:24:50] <giacus> if you want to run Linux I suggest you to ask in #handhelds.org
[12:25:04] <anonimasu> I dont..
[12:25:09] <giacus> for familiar disrtibution
[12:26:15] <giacus> The intimate project, instead, is a fully blown debian based linux distribution
[12:27:00] <anonimasu> linux isnt practical :)
[12:27:20] <giacus> yeah
[12:27:31] <giacus> :D
[12:31:40] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[12:35:43] <bullzebub> do a ubuntu server install and read this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=42873
[12:35:56] <bullzebub> thats the way i did it .. .but i run fluxbox
[12:36:55] <bullzebub> wait a min?
[12:37:15] <bullzebub> maybe i should have read more before i wrote... *laugh*
[12:38:30] <giacus> bullzebub: forums posts become obsolete soon ..
[12:39:24] <giacus> I June 20th, 2005 at 02:57 AM
[12:39:34] <giacus> I'd try a wiki instead
[13:27:10] <bullzebub> giacus what do you mean?
[13:32:59] <giacus> I meant a wiki could be updated often
[13:33:12] <giacus> a post in a forum just one time ..
[13:33:26] <giacus> Linux is dinamic
[13:33:30] <giacus> not static ..
[13:35:15] <giacus> when you look at forums you should always check the time of the post
[13:35:28] <giacus> if old.. I suggest you to stay away
[13:35:52] <giacus> unless you like mistakes
[13:37:00] <giacus> that's the reason you did all right but it didnt work, I guess
[13:39:39] <giacus> Unfortunately, a comma more or less in a command can do a big difference
[13:46:35] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, did you find a solution?
[13:56:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py:
[13:56:29] <CIA-8> when estimating speed, make it zero immediately if the machine didn't move
[13:56:29] <CIA-8> for one whole update.
[13:56:29] <CIA-8> reformat the "speed" row of the DRO to line up with the other coordinates
[13:56:29] <CIA-8> (decimal point may not line up on metric)
[13:56:30] <CIA-8> enable speed display by default
[13:56:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc:
[13:56:34] <CIA-8> when estimating speed, make it zero immediately if the machine didn't move
[13:56:38] <CIA-8> for one whole update.
[13:56:40] <CIA-8> reformat the "speed" row of the DRO to line up with the other coordinates
[13:56:42] <CIA-8> (decimal point may not line up on metric)
[13:56:44] <CIA-8> enable speed display by default
[13:59:56] <giacus> <bullzebub> thats the way i did it .. .but i run fluxbox: Last edited by christooss : September 28th, 2005 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Removed fluxbox and added IceWM
[14:00:08] <giacus> :)
[14:01:12] <giacus> that's a luck the guy wrote the edit reason ..
[14:03:09] <giacus> bullzebub was tryng to run fluxbox without it installed
[14:03:22] <giacus> !
[16:01:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is melting slowly..
[16:01:58] <alex_joni> damn hot lately
[17:38:59] <Jymmm> oh shit... MSC bought J&L
[17:41:14] <fenn> we've.. got to do something!
[17:42:01] <Jymmm> fenn Yeah! We'll all boycott Jameco in protest of MSC + J&L merger!
[17:42:25] <Jymmm> =)
[17:42:53] <Jymmm> fenn: I still think you just got lucky (price wise) buying from them, but hey if it works for you....
[17:44:03] <fenn> they seem to have really good prices on standard components like transistors and capacitors and stuff, compared to digikey and all the surplus places
[17:45:37] <Jymmm> There are enough surplus stores around, that I usually just picknpull that stuff.
[17:48:02] <fenn> ah its nice to have real surplus stores
[17:48:30] <Jymmm> Yeah, in the 90's it was VERY VERY NICE, almsot anything you could imagine
[17:48:45] <Jymmm> all the dot com stuff
[17:50:14] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm mkaing a new tabletop for my router, but I'm not sure in the spacing... 24" x 28" x .75" MDF .250" holes in a grid 1" spacing
[17:51:01] <Jymmm> That sounds like I might be removing too much material
[17:51:24] <bill203> yeah, maybe holes every 2 inches.
[17:51:32] <bill203> you can always drill more later if you need to.
[17:51:46] <Jymmm> heh, well sort of....
[17:52:19] <Jymmm> This will be sandwiched on top of another piece of MDF that will have the same spacing and T-NUTS installed
[17:52:50] <Jymmm> Which I think need a 3/8" hole for installing.
[17:53:50] <Jymmm> Yeah, 2" seems safe. Now I'm still trying to figure out what to do for clamps
[17:54:06] <fenn> why dont you drill a 3/8 hole halfway through, and 1/4" the rest of the way, then flip upside down
[17:54:43] <fenn> why do you need .250 again?
[17:55:23] <Jymmm> fenn: Ah, well my intensions are to use the top layer as sacraficial. the 1/4" holes are to accept "alignment pins"
[17:56:09] <Jymmm> that way when I need to replace the top layer, I dont have to worry about the bottom layer with all the tbuts in it
[17:56:59] <Jymmm> and 1/4-20 bolt will fit thru the .250" holes
[17:57:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hi
[17:57:22] <Jymmm> so I get a nice combination of alignment holes and bolt-down holes
[17:57:25] <Jymmm> hi Lerneaen_Hydra2
[17:58:14] <Jymmm> What's really driving me buts is coming up with ideas for clamps
[17:58:21] <Jymmm> nuts
[17:58:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Jymmm: for your vacuum table?
[17:59:15] <Jymmm> Lerneaen_Hydra2 some of the stuff I do is machien on both sides, not enough surface area to use a vac table
[17:59:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh. right.
[17:59:40] <Jymmm> If I had a vac pump, I might consider it.
[17:59:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> and a standard clamp that manual mills have wont work?
[18:00:02] <Jymmm> a plastic version of step clamps probably would
[18:00:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> why plastic?
[18:00:38] <Jymmm> no maring
[18:00:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh
[18:01:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> why not choose a metal significantly softer than what you're machining?
[18:01:28] <Jymmm> I do wood and plastic, not metal =)
[18:01:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, right
[18:01:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> silly me
[18:01:38] <Jymmm> =)
[18:01:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> rubber clamps! :D
[18:02:06] <Jymmm> nah, I wish I could do al/brass... but can't afford to have the swarm in the house.
[18:02:12] <Jymmm> swarf
[18:02:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, what about a vacuum thingy near the tool?
[18:02:56] <Jymmm> Just ENGRAVING in the surface of al left swarf everywhere
[18:03:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> erk
[18:03:22] <Jymmm> We have birds, I wouldn't want any of them swallowing that.
[18:03:31] <Jymmm> tracks on shoes, etc
[18:03:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, yeah... hmm..
[18:03:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> that complicates matters
[18:04:03] <Jymmm> One day I'll have a real shop to work in =)
[18:04:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> :D
[18:05:22] <Jymmm> just need to figure out these silly clamps... I have some ideas, but not sure. I figure I need to keep the material from moving XY, then another piece that slides over to prevent from popping up (Z)
[18:05:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yeah, sounds reasonable
[18:06:13] <Jymmm> I dont want to loose registration each time I put in new stock, so the XY clamps must be independant of the Z clamp
[18:06:38] <Jymmm> which can be as easy as a 1/8" lip overhang to the material
[18:06:51] <Jymmm> for thin stock stuff
[18:07:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> indeed
[18:08:17] <Jymmm> But I also want to be able to stack (edge to edge) up multiple pieces on the table like 1x4's
[18:08:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ah...
[18:09:36] <Jymmm> Load up 6 1x4's and hit start =)
[18:10:16] <fenn> why not bolt 2 strips of <insert favorite material here> at 90 degrees and then machine them so they line up perfectly with the axis?
[18:11:31] <Jymmm> Ok, my machien has a travel of 24"x24". BUT in the Y there is only 1/16" clearnace for any kind of edging
[18:11:58] <Jymmm> so it makes it hard when doing 24" x 24" stock
[18:12:06] <fenn> well you can take the guides off if you really need the space
[18:12:18] <fenn> but how often do you do 24x24 stock
[18:12:41] <Jymmm> I have 8 pcs of 24x24 waiting to run sitting next to me =)
[18:12:51] <fenn> then you need a bigger router
[18:13:04] <Jymmm> well, that's not an option at this time =)
[18:14:49] <Jymmm> I was thinking aluminum T-channel that's been trimmed down. That wshould let me down PCB and 1/8" plastics
[18:16:39] <Jymmm> fenn but back to your strips idea. That's fine for registration (kinda what I've been doing with the alignment pins all along), but what about the clmaping side of it?
[18:17:14] <Jymmm> thermal expansion of plastic could vary from morning to afternoon
[18:18:40] <fenn> ummm
[18:18:47] <fenn> i think that's the least of your worries :)
[18:19:05] <fenn> isnt that thing made of aluminum anyway?
[18:19:10] <fenn> with steel rails
[18:19:48] <fenn> these look pretty practical to me: http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/FabClass/tools/Modela/
[18:20:05] <fenn> except i'd keep the 90 degree thing in one corner and leave it there
[18:23:03] <Jymmm> Sure, that's great for PCB, But I go from 1/16" to 4"
[18:24:39] <fenn> whats wrong with plain old step blocks again?
[18:24:51] <Jymmm> maring of the material (wood/plastic)
[18:25:03] <fenn> make them out of mdf or some crap then
[18:26:22] <Jymmm> Not MDF, but maybe HDPE. but sometime I need to clamp the whole surface area so the material doesn't bow.
[18:26:44] <Jymmm> (at the edges)
[18:28:47] <Jymmm> look at this pic... it doesn't actually hold the PCB down, just prevents if from coming out... http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/FabClass/tools/Modela/Images/clamp-ell-7.png
[18:29:18] <jepler> cradek: you should look at that page fenn mentioned. It sure would beat using tape! http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/FabClass/tools/Modela/
[18:30:04] <fenn> jepler: it depends on how straight your board stock is i think
[18:30:22] <Jymmm> Just dont use acrylic for the base ---> http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/FabClass/tools/Modela/Images/clamp-small-flat-2.png
[18:30:23] <cradek> jepler: I don't think it would work as well as the tape
[18:30:25] <fenn> if the supplier cuts it with a shear it tends to warp the pcb a bit, so it is hard to get it to lay flat
[18:30:52] <Jymmm> cradek whats the min thickness of PCB you use?
[18:31:06] <cradek> I think the standard stuff is .059
[18:31:20] <Jymmm> k, let me check something....
[18:31:29] <jepler> yeah, I should have qualified my statement "it would beat tape .. if it works"
[18:31:57] <cradek> jepler: we actually need vacuum
[18:32:59] <Jymmm> cradek: anything you use comes close to .047" ?
[18:36:21] <cradek> don't think so
[18:36:34] <jepler> http://www.pcbprototyping.com/udocs/TD_g4.pdf
[18:37:19] <Jymmm> cradek: maybe a mdf base (instead of acrylic) and use .047" phenolic as the edge and downward clamp?
[18:38:24] <Jymmm> when you tighten down the clamp, it'll apply pressure to the PCB too, helping it not to warp.
[18:38:33] <alex_joni> hi guys
[18:39:00] <Jymmm> hey alex_joni
[18:39:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just woke up :)
[18:39:21] <jepler> alex_joni: good morning! (isn't it well into the afternoon?)
[18:39:34] <alex_joni> 21:47 * alex_joni just woke up :)
[18:39:42] <Jymmm> lol
[18:39:44] <alex_joni> jepler: you can say afternoon, barely
[18:40:00] <alex_joni> but it's so hot, I didn't feel like doing anything..
[18:40:02] <Jymmm> or even G'night
[18:40:42] <alex_joni> I can't remember when I slept in the afternoon..
[18:40:55] <alex_joni> but it was nice :)
[18:52:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> so, are the rest of you like, testing alex's advice and sleeping?
[18:52:32] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: it REALLYworks
[19:01:15] <alex_joni> http://www.indianraj.com/2006/06/2000_car_coming_within_2_years.html
[19:08:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> gnight all
[19:08:21] <Jymmm> Nite Lerneaen_Hydra2
[19:08:30] <alex_joni> nite Lerneaen_Hydra2
[19:08:44] <Jymmm> a $2100 car, I'd have to rip the front seat out and sit in the back!
[19:11:16] <alex_joni> Jymmm: what makes you think it has a front seat?
[19:11:45] <Jymmm> lol, Cool I can sit on top of the motor then
[19:12:00] <alex_joni> Jymmm: what makes you think it has a motor?
[19:12:02] <alex_joni> :D
[19:12:13] <Jymmm> alex_joni cuz it said it's a rear-motor
[19:12:19] <alex_joni> darn ;)
[19:12:24] <alex_joni> ok, it probably has a motor
[19:12:37] <Jymmm> it's a revamp of the VW bug
[19:13:42] <alex_joni> yeah, but if you think about how much a new beetle costs today..
[19:13:44] <alex_joni> crazy
[19:14:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, very expensive. but they were going after a certain market i demand, the same ones that buy $400 iPods.
[19:15:40] <alex_joni> lol, yeah.. wonder who would do that
[19:16:10] <Jymmm> hell if I know... I'm not paying $400 for an iPod
[19:16:25] <alex_joni> I'd rather get a new lens for that money :D
[19:16:27] <Jymmm> Not when you can buy a MP4 players for about the same
[19:17:02] <alex_joni> mp4?
[19:17:06] <Jymmm> video
[19:17:30] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok, seen some.. didn't really like them
[19:17:52] <Jymmm> hold on let me find one I know you'ld like...
[19:23:33] <Jymmm> Ok, not the one I was looking for. It has a cF slot and can view RAW/JPG firle formats. http://www.diytrade.com/directory/global/buy/products/1429495/Multi_Media_PLAYER_1_8_PhotoBank_MP3_MPEG4.html
[19:23:51] <Jymmm> you cna transfer pics from the CF rto the built in HDD
[19:24:36] <alex_joni> I see..
[19:24:43] <alex_joni> well I don't think I'd buy one
[19:24:49] <alex_joni> I usually carry my laptop around
[19:25:39] <Jymmm> these are for when you DONT want to do that
[19:26:21] <alex_joni> right
[19:26:34] <alex_joni> usually I just limit myself to ~900 pics then :)
[19:26:49] <Jymmm> BLASPHAMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:26:52] <alex_joni> lol
[19:27:00] <alex_joni> probably I should get anothe CF
[19:27:04] <alex_joni> or two
[19:27:05] <alex_joni> :D
[19:27:08] <Jymmm> or 5
[19:28:08] <Jymmm> dont max out on size, if you get a corrupt card, you might lose all your photos
[19:28:20] <alex_joni> I have a 1gig one
[19:28:30] <alex_joni> far from max out
[19:28:55] <Jymmm> I have 2 one gig highsped CF cards, plus a 512 too
[19:29:12] <Jymmm> well, I have more, but dont carry them with me
[19:29:55] <Jymmm> and I did have one get coruppted when transfering to the hdd, but I found a utility to recover them, and all the others I ever deleted off the card.
[19:30:20] <alex_joni> coo
[19:30:31] <alex_joni> I have one of those high speeds, works great
[19:30:48] <Jymmm> Now they have ULTRA high speed cards
[19:31:16] <alex_joni> it's a sandisk Ultra II ;)
[19:31:33] <jepler> I was seeing "80x" compact flash cards when I bought one recently. I have no idea how fast 1x ones were, but if it was only 1/80 as fast as this card, it would truly have sucked.
[19:31:42] <Jymmm> that's what my 512 is.
[19:31:55] <alex_joni> jepler: not really..
[19:33:10] <Jymmm> ah, sandisk EXTREME III ar ethe new ones...
[19:33:40] <alex_joni> the first ones were getting something like 2-300 kB
[19:33:49] <Jymmm> now 20/mb
[19:33:50] <alex_joni> maybe more (5-600 kB)
[19:34:00] <alex_joni> 20 MB? I have to see that to believe it :)
[19:34:03] <Jymmm> Min 20MB/second** sequential read and write
[19:34:05] <alex_joni> mine does abou 8-9
[19:34:09] <Jymmm> http://sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=1181
[19:35:14] <alex_joni> **Based on SanDisk internal testing
[19:36:09] <Jymmm> even if they're 50% off, that's still 10MB/s
[19:36:18] <alex_joni> right, that's nice
[19:36:46] <Jymmm> video streaming speeds
[19:37:38] <alex_joni> I think 1-2MB is enough for video streeming
[19:40:33] <alex_joni> but 20MB might be enough for dvd quality streaming
[19:47:49] <giacus> my old HD was 40 mb
[19:47:54] <giacus> :)
[19:48:14] <giacus> 386 SX
[19:49:47] <alex_joni> mine was 400 :D
[19:49:56] <alex_joni> 386-DX-40
[19:51:52] <giacus> actual equivalent cost: E. 1.300 :(°°
[19:52:24] <giacus> for a couple of year playng with a fassssst computer ..
[19:52:38] <jepler> 9 GB / 2 hour is 1.25 MB/s
[19:53:35] <jepler> (10 mega*bit* per second)
[19:55:41] <alex_joni> jepler: give it a few years
[19:55:45] <alex_joni> and it'llchange again
[19:55:51] <alex_joni> thanks to blueray & HDTV
[19:56:14] <giacus> they really don't want a standard ..
[19:56:25] <giacus> too much cheap
[19:56:50] <giacus> have to change something
[19:56:51] <jepler> cheap doesn't matter as long as law lets them prevent competition
[19:57:06] <giacus> when something goes bad.. they change the name, at least
[19:57:20] <giacus> * giacus thinking at Linux Mandrake/Mandriva
[19:57:41] <alex_joni> keep linux out of that ,)
[19:58:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni shifts his attention back to the broccoli
[19:59:10] <giacus> next team will change name will be Juventus Football club ..
[19:59:28] <giacus> a player fall from the '4th' floor today
[19:59:54] <giacus> 1/2 of the team on the jail
[20:00:17] <giacus> seems a suicide
[20:04:43] <giacus> my old father was right: is not possible to make money honestly
[20:04:57] <giacus> just hard working
[20:05:26] <giacus> I wanted believe him ..
[20:05:43] <giacus> dont*
[20:13:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni broccoli? what are you making?
[20:14:33] <alex_joni> I ate some
[20:15:02] <Jymmm> alex_joni Oh, thought you were makign some dish with brocolli. I've been looking for new ideas
[20:15:22] <alex_joni> this was basicly boiled with a pinch of salt and some butter
[20:15:39] <alex_joni> with nice boiled, sliced carrots
[20:15:59] <alex_joni> Jymmm: do you like chick bondage? :D
[20:16:08] <alex_joni> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/5904483/
[20:17:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni /join #bdsm and find out!
[20:18:20] <Jymmm> and that's far from bondage... you should see our vet... he's got this death grip thing he does.
[20:21:23] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm off to the lumber store!
[20:22:58] <Jymmm> jepler: Sandisk rates their stuff in Mega BYTES/s, unless they totally fubared the whole B b thing, but I can't find anything on therio wesbtie that says otherwise.
[20:51:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: allow reloading of the tool table
[20:51:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: allow reloading of the tool table
[20:51:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: allow reloading of the tool table
[21:21:33] <bill203> can I get a constant speed out of a DC motor (non-stepper) by driving it w/ pwm instead of just varying voltage?
[21:22:02] <jepler> bill203: you still need feedback to get a constant speed
[21:22:30] <jepler> bill203: (because the load may vary)
[21:22:39] <jepler> bill203: but yes, you can PWM a DC motor
[21:23:01] <alex_joni> pwm filtered out by the motors characteristica = ~ varying voltage
[21:23:13] <cradek> yes motors make nice inductors
[21:23:31] <bill203> heh
[21:24:20] <bill203> I have a simple little thingie with a few motors running on some batteries via potentiometers, and the speed of one is affecting the other.
[21:24:49] <jepler> even "real" servo systems operate on the PWM principle. http://pico-systems.com/pwmservo.html
[21:25:10] <jepler> bill203: because the supply voltage drops when one motor is on vs when two are on?
[21:25:18] <bill203> jepler, exactly
[21:25:47] <bill203> it's just a little laser-light-show thing I was making for my nephew, but you cant get the motor speeds to hold constant.
[21:27:04] <jepler> I don't think PWM will help you -- if you command one motor 50% and one 0%, you'll still get a different average supply voltage than if you command one 50% and the other 50%
[21:27:15] <bill203> good point.
[21:27:37] <bill203> I guess I need to run the power thur a voltage regulator for each motor.
[21:28:25] <jepler> if you regulate the voltage this effect should be much smaller .. you shouldn't need a separate regulator for each battery, though
[21:29:37] <bill203> I'll toss a 7805 on it and see how it works.
[21:29:48] <bill203> I think I have a bunch of 5v ones.
[21:30:44] <jepler> the datasheet says (I assume it's subject to proper input and output filtering) 9mV typical load regulation from 5mA to 1.5A
[21:30:53] <jepler> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/LM/LM7806.pdf page 3
[21:31:03] <alex_joni> 7806 ?
[21:31:08] <bill203> this is just 4 AA batteries, so I should be fine.
[21:31:30] <A-L-P-H-A> bill203... just make sure the power you feed the 7805 isn't regulated itself.
[21:31:49] <A-L-P-H-A> i.e. don't feed the 7805 an already regulated voltage.
[21:31:52] <jepler> 4*1.5 is only 6V .. that's below the dropout voltage of the 7805
[21:32:03] <bill203> ah, I'd need more.
[21:32:06] <bill203> more AA's
[21:32:08] <alex_joni> you need about 7V for the 7805 afaik
[21:32:16] <jepler> dropout voltage = 2V
[21:32:18] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: it does work even with regulated power
[21:32:20] <bill203> or a lower threshold regulator.
[21:32:38] <alex_joni> but if you have battery power, then I say it's regulated enough
[21:32:45] <alex_joni> maybe a 5V zenner is all you need
[21:32:56] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, i had sooo much issue when it was... cause the 1st regulated power wasn't clean.
[21:33:36] <giacus> wrong filter ?
[21:33:48] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/2143/l7805c.pdf
[21:33:52] <A-L-P-H-A> doubtful.
[21:34:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I had regulated power to an 7805... and I was getting something like 4.5V, not 5.0x volts.
[21:34:26] <A-L-P-H-A> so it was crapping out an LS7404 (hex inverter)
[21:34:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I couldn't figure it out, till I tested the lines...
[21:35:01] <A-L-P-H-A> once i removed the wall wort power supply and supplied it with my own rig, it was messed up.
[21:35:08] <A-L-P-H-A> err.
[21:35:10] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: sounds like you had less then 7V before the 7805
[21:35:16] <A-L-P-H-A> once I replaced the wallwart, it work.
[21:35:17] <alex_joni> or you didn't use the proper caps
[21:35:50] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, was the proper caps, 50uF pre 7805, 10uf Post.
[21:40:24] <giacus> I've doubts on second ..
[21:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> whatever... my electrical engineering friend did the circuit to figure it out for me... I've got enough knowledge to get myself into problems... he's got the degree in engineering, not me.
[21:41:45] <giacus> Two electrolytic capacitors, anywhere between 100 and 1,000 microfarads
[21:42:41] <giacus> the second capacitor acts as a load balancer to ensure consistent output from the 7805.
[21:42:54] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, hey! http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3880195342.html
[21:42:59] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe. that may do him well.
[21:44:45] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, just depends on what kind of loads you think you may have.
[21:45:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't feel like calculating it, so I just picked the first handy one I had.
[21:45:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I've been up since 6:30am... I'm sooo tired.
[21:45:43] <A-L-P-H-A> 12hrs, no naps.
[21:45:44] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[21:45:56] <bill203> neat case.
[21:46:11] <A-L-P-H-A> tiny computer, wished it was usb 2.0
[21:48:02] <A-L-P-H-A> cheap little thing too! only 29€
[21:48:22] <bill203> 29 for the case, or the board?
[21:48:24] <A-L-P-H-A> made in IT
[21:48:35] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: if you search logger-aj you'll see this was posted in here half a year ago
[21:48:35] <A-L-P-H-A> oh!
[21:49:32] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[21:49:35] <A-L-P-H-A> where's the damn board?
[21:49:38] <A-L-P-H-A> that's just the case.
[21:49:39] <A-L-P-H-A> no board.
[21:49:40] <A-L-P-H-A> lame.
[21:49:47] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni... :P I'm slow on the news. :P
[21:50:06] <A-L-P-H-A> plus I wasn't really hanging out that much in here during the first few months of this year.
[21:50:08] <A-L-P-H-A> cause i was in school.
[21:50:55] <alex_joni> right
[21:52:01] <giacus> http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/products_id/441
[21:52:58] <A-L-P-H-A> eeck. expensive
[21:53:05] <A-L-P-H-A> k... I need a short nap
[21:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> really dying here.
[21:53:42] <giacus> I'd buy a pda instead ..
[21:58:57] <giacus> http://cgi.ebay.it/PDA-IPAQ-H2215-CASTELLANO-BLUETOOTH-64M-32M-CPU400MHz_W0QQitemZ9743429870QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3734QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[21:59:45] <giacus> 35 bids
[22:00:05] <giacus> O_O
[22:00:45] <pier> I everybody
[22:00:50] <pier> Hi
[22:00:53] <giacus> hello pier
[22:00:53] <jepler> and the odds that none of those 35 has bid more than it's worth? pretty small.
[22:01:13] <pier> ciao Giacus
[22:01:35] <giacus> jepler: EUR 152,50
[22:01:48] <giacus> but its nice, k4ts has it
[22:02:11] <giacus> has SD + CF support
[22:02:23] <giacus> where the mine has only SD :(
[22:03:37] <pier> I wondered if I may ask for help here about some hitch with parport programming attaching a link to a thread...
[22:03:49] <pier> I know it is OT
[22:05:04] <jepler> you mean a HAL thread, or something else?
[22:05:14] <jepler> questions about emc's HAL are very appropriate here
[22:05:44] <pier> no I wanted just to attach a link to a thread...
[22:06:12] <jepler> I'm not sure what a "link" is, then
[22:06:42] <pier> a web link to linux question
[22:06:55] <jepler> oh, I understand
[22:07:01] <giacus> hehe
[22:07:07] <giacus> I was confused too
[22:07:33] <pier> I am getting mad with outb to 0x378
[22:07:34] <jepler> it's OK to ask, as long as you can accept that nobody may answer
[22:07:44] <pier> no problem
[22:08:26] <pier> the answer are to be sent there :) eventually
[22:08:40] <pier> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p=2310390&posted=1#post2310390
[22:08:52] <pier> thanks
[22:10:50] <jepler> so the problem is that "something" is creating a 100Hz square wave on certain parallel port pins, but you don't know what?
[22:11:04] <pier> yep
[22:11:48] <pier> regardless the kernel version
[22:12:02] <pier> either RTAI patched or not
[22:13:28] <giacus> pier: I'm not familiar with low level programming, but I suppose you already seen this: http://www.raphnet.net/programmation/libstepper/libstepper_en.php
[22:14:48] <jepler> I recommend making sure that parport_pc is not loaded, and then in your program make sure the the parallel port to the "output" direction, by setting the 0x20 bit in the "control" port (base_addr + 2)
[22:15:12] <jepler> pier: what OS? One of the ubuntus?
[22:15:41] <jepler> er, that advice is wrong. 0x20 turns on input mode.
[22:15:42] <pier> slackware and debian(rtai + emc bdi)
[22:15:59] <jepler> you get exactly the same effect on both?
[22:16:15] <pier> yes
[22:16:21] <jepler> huh
[22:16:32] <pier> giacus: thanks ... already read
[22:17:01] <giacus> K
[22:18:13] <giacus> jepler: for the few I know RTAI use his own parport module (realtime) right?
[22:18:25] <giacus> or EMC2
[22:18:38] <jepler> giacus: yes, emc uses a HAL module which does outb()s from kernelspace
[22:18:41] <pier> yes but I think it is loaded at need
[22:19:00] <giacus> pier: loading both modules ?
[22:19:24] <pier> I even removed lp, parport and parport_pc
[22:19:34] <jepler> pier: the post says it stops working completely after removing parport_pc?
[22:19:41] <pier> yes
[22:19:57] <pier> this on debian rtai
[22:19:58] <jepler> pier: when you tested to find the 100Hz signal, this was without any other device attached to the port?
[22:20:08] <pier> yes
[22:20:17] <pier> just a multimeter
[22:20:49] <pier> that is a rough value though
[22:21:14] <pier> fact is that the stepper begins to spin
[22:21:40] <pier> unless I send a disable bit to the Cx control byte
[22:21:56] <pier> or better pin_en^11
[22:22:24] <pier> as they are hadware inverted
[22:23:46] <jepler> I've never heard of this happening
[22:24:00] <pier> I'd think that my lp is dead if it didn't work perfectly under dos
[22:24:18] <pier> neither have I
[22:24:22] <jepler> I'd like to understand why it doesn't work at all when parport_pc is not loaded
[22:24:27] <jepler> it should work just fine
[22:24:41] <jepler> in fact, in the latest versions of the emc2 package for ubuntu, we make sure parport_pc doesn't load
[22:24:49] <jepler> and we haven't gotten anybody saying "my parport doesn't work any more"
[22:24:54] <pier> It doesn't work with emc either
[22:25:36] <pier> unless I modprobe parport_pc again
[22:26:49] <alex_joni> odd
[22:27:11] <pier> I am talking about emc that comes with bdi 4.x (I still have to wait to go wireless in the garage before installing ubuntu and emc2)
[22:27:27] <SWPadnos> are you using quickstep?
[22:27:32] <pier> yes
[22:27:33] <jepler> look in "ps" for any programs that might try to use the parallel port, and kill them.
[22:27:54] <SWPadnos> the quickstep interrupt handler probably isn't being removed properly
[22:28:13] <SWPadnos> it won't show up in ps either
[22:28:25] <alex_joni> quickstep?
[22:28:38] <SWPadnos> the fast step generator in the latest BDI
[22:28:43] <alex_joni> oh.. then that might be a problem
[22:28:52] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I know what quickstep is..
[22:28:55] <jepler> SWPadnos: that's possible, but surely the module is removed when emc quits, and if the interrupt handler is still there the computer would soon go into la-laa land
[22:28:58] <SWPadnos> yep. it's an interrupt handler that sits "under" the kernel task switcher
[22:29:08] <SWPadnos> unless the module can't be removed ...
[22:29:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: under the rtai task switcher ;)
[22:29:23] <SWPadnos> under both :)
[22:29:24] <alex_joni> way under the kernel task switcher
[22:29:39] <alex_joni> jepler: is it nice there?
[22:29:46] <alex_joni> jepler: in the la-laa land?
[22:29:59] <jepler> alex_joni: I think the weather is nice every day .. very relaxing
[22:30:04] <jepler> but you can never get any work done
[22:30:15] <SWPadnos> and how do you feel about that?
[22:30:38] <SWPadnos> it's ok if no work gets done, just put the knofe down, and take your medicine
[22:30:44] <SWPadnos> that'll make the voices stop
[22:31:04] <SWPadnos> I guess that would be funnier if I hand't misspelled knife :)
[22:31:13] <SWPadnos> argh
[22:32:41] <pier> thanks for your help... goodnight
[22:32:51] <jepler> pier: good luck finding an answer
[22:33:18] <pier> thank you :)
[22:58:08] <Jymmm> When you go to the lumber store and have stuff cut for you, and they actually cut it for you, then you ponder was that 28" or 26", be sure to bring the dimensions, that way tou dont hve to go back home, remeasure, then go back to the lumber store again.
[23:02:24] <giacus> hehe :)
[23:03:21] <giacus> I've lumber store under my house :P
[23:03:57] <giacus> exit from a door entered to another
[23:05:29] <alex_joni> night all
[23:05:46] <giacus> G'Night alex_joni
[23:08:56] <davidf> hi
[23:11:55] <davidf> Came on to see if anyone had an idea why linux can't detect my HP laserjet 4 printer.
[23:12:32] <SWPadnos> perhaps your CNC is conected to the printer port?
[23:12:56] <davidf> No. The printer is plugged in.
[23:13:14] <davidf> That would sure be a cause, though. :)
[23:13:24] <davidf> Hi SWPadnos
[23:13:40] <SWPadnos> hi there :)
[23:13:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos how goes things?
[23:14:11] <davidf> I looked on ubuntu's help etc. & google a bit.
[23:14:25] <davidf> Things are going well, thanks. You?
[23:14:31] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, mostly OK
[23:14:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos new van yet?
[23:14:49] <davidf> I have cut some timing pulleys & they came out perfect. Love emc!
[23:14:53] <SWPadnos> nope - waiting for the old one still ;)
[23:14:57] <SWPadnos> cool
[23:15:00] <SWPadnos> do you have a lathe?
[23:15:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos ah, able to get it out of salvage huh?
[23:15:24] <SWPadnos> nope - wasn't totalled
[23:15:44] <SWPadnos> though it possibly should have been, with the rental car thrown in
[23:15:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos how much to get fixed?
[23:15:51] <SWPadnos> ~$2100 for the repairs
[23:15:57] <SWPadnos> $900 for the rental
[23:16:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos damn, that's all! lucky you
[23:16:26] <Jymmm> Just to fix a scratch on my car door was $650
[23:16:36] <SWPadnos> heh - yep. at least now I don't have to buy a new one for $2100 ;)
[23:16:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and you get a new paint job too
[23:17:09] <SWPadnos> at least on the liftgate
[23:17:31] <davidf> SWPadnos, were you asking me re the lathe? I have a 7X12 but I cut the pulleys on my Taig mill.
[23:17:56] <SWPadnos> davidf, yep - I was asking you - thanks
[23:18:14] <davidf> Can anyone give a suggestion about how to get the printer detected?
[23:18:40] <Jymmm> I have no clue, but what size lathe would I need to make long gun barrels?
[23:18:59] <SWPadnos> is this on a machine that normally runs emc (via a parallel port)?
[23:19:42] <davidf> I tried all the regular user stuff I could find, and it doesn't work. When I try the other button (non automatic detection, it only shows USB stuff. No parport
[23:19:52] <davidf> Yes. emc runs fine.
[23:20:12] <davidf> On the parallel port.
[23:20:52] <SWPadnos> I guess I'm thinking that ther ecould be a problem with the changes you should make to get emc to run (like disabling the parport driver) vs. using a printer
[23:21:26] <davidf> When I look in hardware device manager, I see something listed that looks like it is the port, but no useful info.
[23:22:22] <davidf> Yes. That's the lines along which I was thinking, but I'm totally clueless about what to do or how.
[23:22:49] <SWPadnos> one sec
[23:23:10] <davidf> Does emc install some kernel level port driver or something at bootup?
[23:24:44] <SWPadnos> well, on dapper, it goes like this:
[23:24:46] <Jymmm> iirc ubuntu installs CUPS
[23:24:57] <davidf> No idea here about barrels, Jymm. Guess it would need a ways that was longer than the barell. But I have no knowledge of that kind of thing. Mine is only 12 inches between centers.
[23:25:00] <SWPadnos> administration -> printing -> new printer -> local printer / select "no port found"
[23:25:07] <SWPadnos> click next, and you'll get a list of printers
[23:25:19] <SWPadnos> there are several flavors of the HP LJ4
[23:25:22] <SWPadnos> pick one
[23:25:42] <davidf> I thought CUPS was for network printers.
[23:25:55] <SWPadnos> it's used for local printing as well, I think
[23:25:57] <Jymmm> davidf: *I* can't see a need for a lathe, EXCEPT for that purpose, But I thought I'd ask =)
[23:25:58] <SWPadnos> it replaces LPR
[23:26:16] <SWPadnos> lathes are better at making round things
[23:26:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos =)
[23:27:03] <davidf> Sure. But there are , I'm told, other round things.
[23:27:21] <Jymmm> davidf yeah, ammo =)
[23:27:47] <davidf> Silly me. I forgot.
[23:27:58] <Jymmm> lol
[23:28:10] <Jymmm> oh, and scope housings
[23:29:13] <davidf> And buckles for straight jackets. ;)
[23:29:28] <SWPadnos> my scopes are more ectangular
[23:29:28] <Jymmm> No, those I can make on my router =)
[23:29:29] <davidf> Just kidding. :)
[23:29:32] <SWPadnos> rectangular, too
[23:30:10] <davidf> Actually, you can make square things on a lathe.
[23:30:16] <Jymmm> I want one... http://www.lasersightshop.com/lasermax-glock.htm
[23:30:50] <jepler> davidf: yeah, if your X moves are in sync with the spindle, it would be possible
[23:31:07] <davidf> SWPadnos, I did that already. All I see in the list is USB 1 through 16.
[23:31:28] <davidf> No, you can do it on a manual.
[23:31:40] <jepler> davidf: the latest emc packages disable the parallel port device
[23:31:49] <SWPadnos> ok. I see none of that on my machine, but it's a different kernel, and it's dapper (6.06), while you're probably on Breezy (5.10)
[23:31:55] <davidf> Just use a 4 jaw chuck or dog, and do 6 face cuts. :)
[23:32:00] <jepler> davidf: because this can interfere with emc's use of it (many users have step+direction machines on the parport)
[23:32:41] <jepler> davidf: if you want to get the parport back, edit the file /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 and insert "#" at the beginning of the line (make it a comment)
[23:33:02] <jepler> davidf: after the next reboot, linux should recognize the parport as /dev/lpX again
[23:33:26] <davidf> Oh, Thanks! So I need to do that every time?
[23:33:59] <jepler> davidf: no, /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 is a "configuration file". So if the emc2 package is ever updated, it will offer you a chance to keep your version of the config file, or install the one from the updated package.
[23:34:28] <Jymmm> jepler: could he setup two different runlevels, one with and one without it being commented out?
[23:34:46] <davidf> This box only cost me $50.00 & I can get another. & keep this as dedicated if need be.
[23:35:38] <davidf> By config file you mean an emc config file?
[23:36:17] <jepler> davidf: no, I mean as far as the "apt" package manager is concerned. "configuration files" get special treatment whenever a package is updated.
[23:36:33] <jepler> Jymmm: I'm sure there's somethin
[23:36:43] <jepler> Jymmm: I'm sure there's something you could do to easily switch between the two modes
[23:37:08] <jepler> Jymmm: for instance, "rmmod parport; rmmod parport_pc" as root will get rid of the device and leave emc free to access it without interference
[23:37:13] <Jymmm> jepler too bad neither of us knows what that is =)
[23:37:49] <Jymmm> jepler can that switch back the other way too?
[23:38:08] <jepler> Jymmm: I think reversing it to "modprobe parport_pc; modprobe_parport" would do it
[23:38:21] <jepler> * jepler hasn't tested this personally, you understand
[23:38:31] <Jymmm> jepler Ah, ok, so a lil bash script is that would be needed then.
[23:38:42] <jepler> you might have to kill and restart cups too
[23:39:01] <jepler> now, if you have two parallel ports, and want your mill attached to one all the time, and a printer attached to the other one, you can do that too
[23:39:38] <davidf> That would seem like a simpler solution for an illiterate.
[23:39:51] <jepler> option parport_pc io=0xNNN where NNN the hex address of the port that is attached to a real printer
[23:39:53] <davidf> See? I really can't spell.
[23:41:45] <jepler> (you'd put 'option ... NNN' in the same /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 file, after commenting out the first line like before)
[23:41:58] <jepler> I hope the things I'm saying are true; I can't personally test them
[23:43:15] <davidf> OK, I think I've got it.
[23:43:36] <davidf> Let me see if I can say it back.
[23:44:32] <davidf> I edit the file and comment out the line, and add after it option parport_pc io= etc... And reboot.
[23:44:52] <davidf> And from then on, emc and the printer sould both work?
[23:46:04] <jepler> yes, if you have two parallel ports, and one is attached to your mill and the other to the printer.
[23:46:12] <jepler> is that your situation?
[23:46:27] <jepler> * jepler scrolls back to see the original information
[23:46:40] <davidf> Unfortunately, no. I would have to add a card.
[23:47:20] <jepler> so you are going to just manually swap cables when you want to print or mill?
[23:47:27] <davidf> But for $20.00 more I can just get another used box like this one.
[23:48:36] <davidf> That was the idea for right now. I* just need to print some stuff from on line. And my windows box is upstairs, all the other stuff is downstairs.
[23:49:20] <davidf> Just wanted a quick fix to print some things without hualing equipment up and down.
[23:50:05] <Jymmm> Hey, whats this dapper shit? untested or ?????
[23:50:48] <jepler> davidf: with the printer plugged in, try running this and then reopening the printer detection thing:
[23:50:51] <jepler> sudo bash -c 'rmmod parport; modprobe -i parport_pc; modprobe parport'
[23:51:32] <Jymmm> davidf you could ue a AB swtich too
[23:51:34] <Jymmm> use
[23:51:58] <davidf> OK, just a sec...
[23:52:06] <jepler> hm, that may not be right
[23:52:12] <davidf> OK...
[23:52:16] <jepler> I have a parport on this machine, but not actually hardware attached to it
[23:52:38] <jepler> sudo bash -c 'rmmod lp parport_pc parport; modprobe -i parport_pc; modprobe lp'
[23:52:42] <jepler> how about this one ^^^
[23:52:47] <jepler> then just do "dmesg | tail -2"
[23:53:00] <jepler> you should see lines like this if the parallel port is now in use by linux:
[23:53:00] <jepler> [87443.618261] parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 1 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA]
[23:53:03] <jepler> [87443.793558] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven).
[23:55:53] <davidf> after first line entered in terminal I got msg: ERROR: Module parport_pc does not exist in /proc/modules
[23:56:16] <jepler> that specific error can be ignored
[23:56:26] <jepler> what does "dmesg | tail -2" say?
[23:56:27] <davidf> ok. I'll continue.
[23:57:36] <davidf> Got it. Parport legacy device.
[23:58:01] <davidf> lp0: using parport (interupt driven.)
[23:58:34] <jepler> OK. Now you should be able to configure and use your printer .. but emc2 will stop with an error when it finds the parport is configured as a printer
[23:58:43] <davidf> cool. So after that I can use the port to print until I reboot?
[23:59:11] <jepler> this command should let you go back to using emc, without rebooting: sudo bash -c 'rmmod lp parport_pc parport'
[23:59:14] <jepler> sudo bash -c 'rmmod lp parport_pc parport'
[23:59:31] <Jymmm> would emc run on ubuntu server edition?