#emc | Logs for 2006-06-21

[00:00:05] <jmkasunich> hit F1 to come out of estop, F2 for machine on, clicked the spindle box and picked forward, the hal pin turned on, hit F1, the hal pin turned off
[00:00:22] <Dallur> but did the UI reset ?
[00:00:35] <jmkasunich> you mean the box in the GUI?
[00:00:38] <Dallur> yup
[00:00:45] <jmkasunich> no, it still says SPINDLE_FORWARD
[00:01:12] <Dallur> ok, it might just be a UI bug
[00:01:54] <jmkasunich> did you try it with axis instead of tkemc?
[00:02:04] <jmkasunich> or mini for that matter
[00:02:27] <Dallur> no, I am using tkemc because I am running a remote X11 and axis has a font that causes trouble
[00:02:38] <Dallur> did not bother looking at it
[00:02:40] <Dallur> :P
[00:03:14] <jmkasunich> cradek / jepler would probably like to hear about the font issue
[00:04:01] <Dallur> I will report it once I am sure it is not just a xming thing
[00:04:07] <jmkasunich> anyway, disregard what I said about iocontrol
[00:04:10] <Dallur> or a graphics lib :D
[00:04:16] <Dallur> you like iocontrol now :D
[00:04:25] <jmkasunich> no, I just don't think thats the issue
[00:04:35] <jmkasunich> iocontrol takes NML messages and sets HAL pins accordingly
[00:04:47] <jmkasunich> I thought you meant the HAL pin wasn't doing what its supposed to
[00:04:48] <Dallur> so the logic is somewhere else
[00:05:05] <jmkasunich> I'm not entirely sure where the logic is
[00:05:14] <Dallur> jmkasunich: i should have spent more time on getting better info and debugging
[00:05:19] <jmkasunich> thats ok
[00:05:54] <jmkasunich> so, is the actual bug "the UI indicates that the spindle is still on, even tho its supposed to be (and is) off"?
[00:05:57] <Dallur> does anyone take care of tkEMC, should I report it
[00:06:11] <Dallur> jmkasunic: yup that would be a correct desc.
[00:06:26] <jmkasunich> if might _not_ be just tkemc, might be the status that is reported from the core of EMC to any GUI
[00:06:34] <jmkasunich> lemme try with axis
[00:07:50] <jmkasunich> axis has the same issue, the button for forward stays pressed
[00:08:35] <Dallur> hmm it also seems that if the estop signal is external the pin is not updated
[00:09:08] <jmkasunich> the estop logic is horribly confusing
[00:09:24] <Dallur> If I use a classicladder to do the estop the pin is not updated it seems
[00:09:25] <Dallur> FALSE iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in <== iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[00:09:34] <Dallur> TRUE iocontrol.0.spindle-forward ==> classicladder.0.in-05
[00:10:04] <jmkasunich> is that something that used to work and now doesn't?
[00:10:09] <Dallur> yup
[00:10:38] <Dallur> I am pretty sure, although not 100% that it did work before
[00:12:22] <jmkasunich> ok, duplicated your result
[00:12:31] <jmkasunich> if I estop using the GUI button, it turns off
[00:12:38] <Dallur> hmm
[00:12:48] <jmkasunich> if I estop by disconnecting the HAL pin and then setting it to zero, it doesn't turn off
[00:12:49] <Dallur> I am doublechecking classicladder example for 2.0.1
[00:13:06] <Dallur> ahh now we are getting somewhere :D
[00:13:58] <Dallur> everything works fine in 2.0.1
[00:14:56] <jmkasunich> that means either the GUI or task is issuing a spindle off NML message when it sees the "estop pressed" NML from the GUI
[00:17:01] <jmkasunich> I hate NML
[00:17:36] <Dallur> I have not dug into the code at this point so I just know what is in the docs , not enough to hate anything at this point
[00:19:44] <Dallur> and not done any real programming on linux so ...
[00:19:51] <jmkasunich> thats ok
[00:19:54] <jmkasunich> I'm digging
[00:22:11] <jmkasunich> well, I'm confused
[00:22:25] <jmkasunich> I think I know whats going on, but if I'm right, its been this way forever
[00:22:37] <jmkasunich> yet you say it works differently in 2.0.1
[00:23:06] <Dallur> yes
[00:23:06] <jmkasunich> I wish alex was here
[00:23:14] <Dallur> I just checked
[00:23:28] <jmkasunich> can you do me a favor
[00:23:30] <Dallur> sure
[00:24:17] <jmkasunich> in your ini, comment out the DEBUG= line that is 0 (or something low) and uncomment the highest one (7FFFFFFF I think)
[00:24:28] <jmkasunich> then start emc from a shell so you can see the debug messages
[00:24:33] <Dallur> ok
[00:24:42] <Dallur> for most recent or for 2.0.1
[00:24:46] <jmkasunich> 2.0.1
[00:24:56] <Dallur> just a sec
[00:25:22] <jmkasunich> I get something like this when I do F1, F2, spindle on:
[00:25:24] <jmkasunich> Issuing EMC_TASK_SET_STATE -- (+505,+16, +16, +2,)
[00:25:24] <jmkasunich> Issuing EMC_TASK_SET_STATE -- (+505,+16, +17, +4,)
[00:25:24] <jmkasunich> Issuing EMC_SPINDLE_ON -- (+1304,+20, +18,1.000000,)
[00:25:43] <jmkasunich> then when I do F1 again to estop, I get:
[00:26:08] <jmkasunich> Issuing EMC_TASK_SET_STATE -- (+505,+16, +19, +1,)
[00:26:41] <jmkasunich> if I generate the estop by disconneting the HAL signal and setting it to zero, I get no message at all
[00:27:42] <Dallur> sending to pastebin as we speak
[00:29:28] <Dallur> http://pastebin.ca/68103
[00:29:37] <Dallur> pastebin.com is having problems so I put it on this one
[00:29:49] <Dallur> http://pastebin.com/722331
[00:29:54] <Dallur> just took a while
[00:31:13] <jmkasunich> taking a while here too
[00:32:35] <jmkasunich> ok, that final EMC_TASK_SET_STATE (after the spindle on) is when you removed the estop signal using classicladder?
[00:33:11] <Dallur> Sorry, I made a mistake you are correct
[00:33:26] <Dallur> in this version of the ladder the signal is not removed by the classicladder
[00:33:38] <Dallur> it is done before it reaches classicladder, my mistake
[00:33:46] <Dallur> so it probably has been this way since forever
[00:33:51] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:33:59] <jmkasunich> that is more expected
[00:34:10] <jmkasunich> wrong, but understandable ;-/
[00:34:15] <Dallur> yup
[00:34:40] <jmkasunich> unfortunately the wrongness is more than just a one-line bug
[00:34:49] <Dallur> design problem ?
[00:34:58] <jmkasunich> I think its a fundamental issue with how some of this logic is handled
[00:35:19] <Dallur> ok, it is handled in the before the estop-out instead of after the estop-in is evaluated
[00:35:29] <jmkasunich> IMO (and only my opinion, others may disagree)...
[00:35:57] <jmkasunich> pushing F1 on a GUI should ONLY send an NML message to iocontrol telling it to turn off the 'user-enable-out' pin
[00:35:59] <jmkasunich> and nothing else
[00:36:28] <jmkasunich> then when the 'emc-enable-in' pin goes false, the rest of the estop process should happen, including turning off the spindle
[00:36:41] <Dallur> that would be logical
[00:36:43] <jmkasunich> instead, I think the GUI is handling some of the estop logic itself
[00:37:19] <jmkasunich> result: if the estop command comes from outside, that logic gets ignored
[00:38:01] <jmkasunich> to be honest, I think the estop input should run direct to the motion controller (realtime code) not thru iocontrol (non-realtime)
[00:38:29] <jmkasunich> the F1 can still send a message to iocontrol to turn off user-enable-out
[00:38:30] <Dallur> well, estop should really be realtime ,,
[00:38:40] <jmkasunich> but emc-enable-in should be thru the motion controller
[00:38:53] <Dallur> yes
[00:39:28] <Dallur> As it is currently if you have an external estop trigger, push it, renable it and take your machine out of estop your spindle will turn on right away which might not be very practical
[00:39:29] <jmkasunich> the problem is then communicating it back up from the motion controller to task
[00:39:53] <jmkasunich> agreed
[00:40:04] <jmkasunich> in simple terms, the estop logic is fscked
[00:40:41] <jmkasunich> so, you are basically reporting two bugs
[00:41:04] <Dallur> 1. GUI is not updated when estop is done from external source
[00:41:22] <Dallur> 2. spindle is not turned off if estop is received from external source
[00:41:25] <jmkasunich> 1) come out of estop and turn on machine (F1, F2), turn on spindle, then hit F1 to go back into estop: HAL pin correctly turns off, but GUI indicates it on
[00:41:53] <jmkasunich> 2) generate ESTOP externally with HAL pin and spindle HAL pin doesn't even turn off
[00:42:08] <Dallur> want me to put those into sourceforge bugtrack ?
[00:42:17] <jmkasunich> yes, please
[00:42:24] <jmkasunich> (do you have an sourceforge ID?)
[00:42:28] <Dallur> yup
[00:42:57] <jmkasunich> one more thing:
[00:43:12] <jmkasunich> which of the two bugs is _not_ in 2.0.1?
[00:43:33] <Dallur> 1, I think but I will verify and write versions
[00:43:39] <jmkasunich> ok, thanks
[00:46:26] <Dallur> thank you :D
[00:54:31] <jmkasunich> Dallur: are you jarl.stefansson?
[00:55:19] <les_w> hi jmk
[00:55:28] <jmkasunich> hi les
[00:55:44] <les_w> I have a question
[00:55:51] <jmkasunich> ask away
[00:56:39] <Dallur> jmkasunich: yes :D
[00:56:51] <les_w> I have pretty much sold management at my clients on RTAI linux factory automation.
[00:56:59] <jmkasunich> I just noticed that you're messages to the list are being held because you're not subscribed
[00:57:08] <les_w> I need developers.
[00:57:09] <jmkasunich> (just approved your message about max speed)
[00:57:43] <les_w> You cannot sign NDAs as an employee of another company, right?
[00:57:45] <Dallur> :D it is old by now , I need to see which email address I registered and send new mails from that address, I have way to many addresses and several locations so I get confused sometimes :D
[00:58:28] <jmkasunich> Dallur: you can also subscribe from multiple addresses if you wish, just turn off delivery to some to aviod duplication
[00:58:40] <jmkasunich> les: probably not
[00:59:14] <jmkasunich> les: I also have limited time and couldn't commit to anything beyond what is already on my plate
[00:59:14] <les_w> I figured. But I do want to use real time linux automation.
[00:59:41] <les_w> ok
[01:00:06] <les_w> well I have a significant budget from them. I just wanted to check.
[01:00:10] <jmkasunich> if you want to ask a few questions (in private if you wish) I have no problem with that
[01:00:18] <les_w> ok
[01:00:26] <jmkasunich> but I can
[01:00:28] <jmkasunich> oopds
[01:01:07] <les_w> oopds...is that a second order oops?
[01:01:17] <jmkasunich> something like that
[01:01:29] <jmkasunich> I tend to hit enter when I'm trying to hit '
[01:02:03] <jmkasunich> as in "I can't commit to anything that would take even 4-8 hours per week"
[01:02:16] <les_w> Anyway, It's likely I need to hire a a realtime Linux software developer. Things are going well.
[01:02:41] <jmkasunich> heh, IOW, you need 4-8 hours a day, if not more....
[01:03:07] <les_w> I really want to go the real time linux route rather than proprietary firmware.
[01:03:57] <les_w> I have been burned too many times with the proprietary stuff.
[01:04:31] <les_w> This is not cnc, but it is something that requires real time control.
[01:04:44] <jmkasunich> how real?
[01:04:52] <jmkasunich> us, ms, sec?
[01:05:37] <les_w> It's a laser trim to frequency, phase , and Q of a fourth order ceramic resonator.
[01:05:54] <jmkasunich> heh, that doesn't answer my question
[01:06:05] <les_w> only the laser stuff needs to be reral time
[01:06:16] <les_w> real
[01:06:22] <les_w> milliseconds
[01:06:26] <jmkasunich> basically read an instrument, go zap, read again, repeat till happy?
[01:06:54] <jmkasunich> where how much zap and where are variables based on the reading?
[01:07:21] <les_w> well, read, zap, read, learn, zap without further reading
[01:07:24] <les_w> adaptive
[01:07:38] <les_w> lots of FFTs
[01:07:44] <jmkasunich> sounds hairy
[01:07:49] <les_w> nah
[01:08:14] <les_w> but it does depend a lot on feedforward functions
[01:08:15] <jmkasunich> zap without further reading = running open loop
[01:08:29] <les_w> kinda
[01:08:43] <les_w> depending on statistics
[01:09:10] <les_w> such a trim device has a real purpose of putting itself out of a job.
[01:10:24] <les_w> It has some limeted control of processes before it.
[01:10:31] <les_w> limited
[01:10:34] <les_w> duh
[01:11:16] <les_w> So t's a feedback loop
[01:11:24] <les_w> with big group delays
[01:12:40] <jepler> reminds me, I was reading how the fastest FFTs are now done on the graphics hardware. http://www.gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2006/05/30 "GPUFFTW: High Performance GPU-based FFT Library"
[01:12:57] <jepler> "The algorithm is highly tuned for GPUs using memory optimizations. It further improves performance using pipelining strategies. In practice, it is able to achieve 4x higher computational performance on a $500 NVIDIA GPU than optimized single precision FFT algorithms on high-end CPUs costing $1500."
[01:13:28] <jmkasunich> the wonders of mass production
[01:13:47] <cradek> especially considering the video card is now $50 instead of $500
[01:13:55] <jepler> cradek: not yet, this is 2006 research
[01:14:01] <cradek> ah
[01:14:06] <cradek> that's one heck of a video card then
[01:14:12] <jmkasunich> IOW its a high end GPU vs a high end CPU
[01:14:25] <Dallur> I remember reading some slashdot articles about the sound buffs using GPUs for very high end sound sampling
[01:14:56] <jmkasunich> hey, since you guys (jeff/chris) are here, maybe you can help me
[01:15:07] <jmkasunich> I'm looking into the simpler of Dallur's two bugs
[01:15:28] <les_w> did a sanity check of doing fast ffts. I see no problem.
[01:15:39] <jmkasunich> on 2.0.1, if I start the machine, start the spindle, then hit estop, the GUI's spindle button goes back to the off state
[01:15:44] <jmkasunich> on head it doesn't
[01:15:51] <jmkasunich> so, what is that button driven from?
[01:15:52] <cradek> ow
[01:16:26] <cradek> hit estop on the gui, right?
[01:16:29] <jmkasunich> tkemc and axis both exihibit the bug, so its not the GUI itself
[01:16:31] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:16:45] <jmkasunich> pay no attention to my spelling
[01:16:56] <jepler> hm. configs/sim/axis.ini
[01:16:59] <jepler> hit f1, f2, f9, f1
[01:17:06] <jepler> spindle button changes to "stop", is greyed out
[01:17:20] <cradek> in 201?
[01:17:35] <jepler> no, in HEADAXIS version 1.4a0 / emc2 Prerelease CVS HEAD
[01:17:43] <jepler> s/HEADAXIS/HEAD: AXIS
[01:18:46] <jmkasunich> not for me, both tkemc and axis the button remains pressed
[01:18:54] <jmkasunich> using stepper_mm and stepper_mm_axis
[01:19:03] <jepler> I'll try stepper then
[01:19:06] <jmkasunich> my axis is probably not the most recent...
[01:19:33] <jepler> nope, stepper_mm (tkemc) behaves the same way
[01:19:35] <jmkasunich> but tkemc shows different behavior for 2.0.1 vs. head
[01:19:37] <jepler> it goes back to 'spindle on'
[01:19:54] <jepler> also the brake turns on again
[01:20:16] <jmkasunich> spindle on?
[01:20:38] <jepler> it goes back to 'spindle off'
[01:20:39] <jmkasunich> after F1 F2 F9, I have "SPINDLE FORWARD" and "BRAKE OFF"
[01:20:42] <jmkasunich> then I hit F1
[01:20:57] <jmkasunich> and the spindle buttons don't change
[01:21:01] <jepler> I have the same after F1 F2 F9
[01:21:17] <jepler> when I hit F1 I have SPINDLE OFF / BRAKE ON
[01:21:23] <jmkasunich> wtf?
[01:21:44] <cradek> I'm guessing one of you doesn't have alex's nml changes
[01:21:46] <jepler> if I hit F1 F2 F9 F2 I have SPINDLE FORWARD / BRAKE OFF / ESTOP RESET
[01:22:07] <jepler> I haven't updated today
[01:22:14] <jmkasunich> ah-ha!
[01:22:18] <jmkasunich> I have
[01:22:22] <Dallur> so have I
[01:22:48] <jmkasunich> than narrows it down to a single day
[01:23:01] <jmkasunich> s/than/that
[01:23:01] <jepler> there are a bunch of configs/ changes .. runscript changes .. motion/command.c 1.59
[01:23:08] <jepler> control.c 1.59
[01:23:18] <Dallur> jmkasunich: might have happened late last night also
[01:23:29] <jepler> +++ src/emc/task/emcsvr.cc17 Jun 2006 23:13:29 -00001.10
[01:23:29] <jepler> +++ src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc17 Jun 2006 19:11:19 -00001.60
[01:23:29] <jepler> +++ src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc17 Jun 2006 23:23:37 -00001.12
[01:23:35] <cradek> or iocontrol.cc 1.32
[01:23:50] <jepler> in my diff -rBASE -rHEAD I don't see icontrol.cc
[01:23:53] <jmkasunich> command.c and control.c are very unlikely
[01:24:02] <jepler> those are all the source files that are changed for me from BASE to HEAD
[01:24:11] <jmkasunich> base = what you have right now?
[01:24:13] <jepler> yes
[01:24:48] <jmkasunich> I think my prime suspect would be taskmain
[01:25:08] <jepler> the versions are 1.59 -> 1.60
[01:25:28] <jepler> aha
[01:25:37] <jepler> you removed a block of //#if 0 .. //#endif
[01:25:41] <jepler> i.e., a block that was enabled
[01:25:57] <jepler> - if (emcStatus->io.spindle.enabled) {
[01:25:58] <jepler> - emcSpindleOff();
[01:25:58] <jepler> - }
[01:25:58] <jmkasunich> wasn't me
[01:26:10] <jepler> oh, oops
[01:26:17] <jepler> it was the motion change that was yours? I saw your name scroll by
[01:26:26] <jepler> sorry
[01:26:28] <jmkasunich> yeah, motion was me - jogwheel stuff I think
[01:26:33] <cradek> revision 1.60
[01:26:34] <cradek> date: 2006/06/17 19:11:19; author: alex_joni; state: Exp; lines: +1 -52
[01:26:34] <cradek> removed some old unused code
[01:26:37] <jmkasunich> -/*! \todo Another #if 0 (deactivated !) */
[01:26:38] <jmkasunich> -//#if 0
[01:26:42] <cradek> oops!!
[01:26:44] <jmkasunich> deactivated is the key word
[01:26:51] <jepler> it's easy to fix!
[01:26:56] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:27:00] <cradek> // is the key "word"
[01:27:01] <jepler> bbl
[01:27:30] <jmkasunich> who's gonna fix? (don't want to stomp on each other)
[01:27:37] <cradek> I'll do it
[01:27:40] <jepler> not me, I left a minute ago
[01:27:42] <jmkasunich> ok, thanks
[01:28:36] <jmkasunich> shall I close the bug?
[01:28:37] <jmkasunich> -/*! \todo Another #if 0 (deactivated !) */
[01:28:37] <jmkasunich> -//#if 0
[01:28:40] <jmkasunich> oops
[01:28:47] <jmkasunich> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106744&aid=1509665&group_id=6744
[01:28:57] <cradek> let's test first :-)
[01:29:02] <jmkasunich> or do you want the honor...
[01:29:14] <cradek> 1509665
[01:29:17] <cradek> is this the bug number?
[01:29:33] <Dallur> yup
[01:29:35] <jmkasunich> dat be da one
[01:30:30] <jmkasunich> I'm glad jepler wasn't updated, that really narrowed it down
[01:31:04] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: fix bug 1509665 caused by misreading all the if 0 droppings while doing cleanup for rev 1.60
[01:31:06] <jmkasunich> I think there are larger issues in that area of the code (as reflected in Dallur's other bug report
[01:31:26] <cradek> go ahead and close it please, it'd take me minutes to get there
[01:31:54] <jmkasunich> you tested?
[01:31:58] <cradek> uhh
[01:32:03] <Dallur> compiling and verifying
[01:32:11] <cradek> yay
[01:32:33] <Jymmm> * Jymmm lol @ cradek
[01:32:47] <Jymmm> he's funny
[01:32:56] <cradek> works for me
[01:33:03] <Jymmm> =)
[01:33:51] <cradek> Dallur: sorry I said you messed up your ladder, when I should have tested instead
[01:34:19] <Dallur> cradek: no problem, I should have investigated better :D
[01:34:20] <A-L-P-H-A> dang. swampy left.
[01:34:26] <A-L-P-H-A> and mess.
[01:35:49] <jmkasunich> 23 minutes from report to close.... ;-)
[01:35:50] <Dallur> works fine now :D
[01:35:56] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Why are you stalking dmess?
[01:35:59] <cradek> yay
[01:36:00] <jmkasunich> ain't open source great?
[01:36:13] <A-L-P-H-A> cause he's asking me to call him... but each time I call, his fax machine picks up.
[01:36:15] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[01:36:25] <jmkasunich> of course we have others that are 2 years old....
[01:36:28] <cradek> I love how he could test the fix immediately
[01:36:41] <Dallur> This team is great, having been working for software companies for 10 years this is by far the fastest turnaround time and best dev group I have worked with
[01:36:50] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Well, I bet yif yo ufaxed him some p0rn/or anything from alt.tasteless that fax machien will never turn on again.
[01:36:50] <jmkasunich> thank you!
[01:36:56] <cradek> that's great, thanks
[01:37:00] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[01:37:24] <A-L-P-H-A> if he was single, and didn't have young kids.. .maybe.
[01:37:30] <jmkasunich> cradek: take a look at 1509664
[01:37:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A or better yet.... send him one L O N G H U G E B A N N E R it would work too
[01:37:41] <cradek> can you paste the whole url?
[01:37:52] <A-L-P-H-A> unless it's a fax computer.
[01:37:53] <jmkasunich> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1509664&group_id=6744&atid=106744
[01:38:17] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A one way to find out
[01:38:20] <jmkasunich> basically, when you estop by hitting F1 (or the GUI button) the spindle stops
[01:38:35] <jmkasunich> but when you estop by turning off the HAL input to iocontrol, it doesn't
[01:38:49] <cradek> ick
[01:38:58] <jmkasunich> the F1 is supposed to (and does) drive an output which is then looped back to the HAL input
[01:39:25] <cradek> alex will be awake in a few hours...?
[01:39:32] <jmkasunich> but apparently not all the estop actions are driven from that input pin, instead some are done directly by the gui (or emcsh, or task or...)
[01:39:36] <cradek> no actually he's on a trip isn't he
[01:39:49] <jmkasunich> I don't want to fix this one now (I think its a design issue)
[01:39:57] <jmkasunich> just talk about it a bit
[01:39:58] <cradek> well we know the code, I just put it back
[01:40:25] <jmkasunich> nope, different issue
[01:40:36] <cradek> I mean that's what disables it when you hit f1
[01:40:39] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Just so I got this right... "potentially" estop (f1) could fault in it's functionality?
[01:40:54] <cradek> Jymmm: no, read the bug
[01:41:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: "potentially" he's right
[01:41:13] <Jymmm> cradek: No, I was commenting on what jmkasunich just said
[01:41:28] <jmkasunich> although if you trust the computer for estop you deserve what you get anyway
[01:41:43] <cradek> sorry, I don't follow
[01:42:01] <cradek> and I don't know squat about how this works
[01:42:34] <jmkasunich> the intent is that "iocontrol.0.user-enable-out" follows the state of the "F1/GUI button"
[01:42:49] <cradek> ok
[01:42:59] <cradek> that part works, right?
[01:43:04] <jmkasunich> and "iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in" is connected either directly to that, or to a ladder run that merges that with external estops
[01:43:07] <Jymmm> Let's see if I got this right "Anything controled by HAL could "potentially" fubar and it's signalling is based upon a loopback and not direct control"
[01:43:26] <jmkasunich> Jymm: just chill out until we think this thru OK?
[01:43:58] <jmkasunich> Jymm: anything not turned off and locked out could potentially fubar
[01:44:15] <jmkasunich> and I mean turned off with an air-break switch and locked with a padlock
[01:44:17] <Jymmm> jmkasunich That was a question just to make sure *I* understand =)
[01:44:38] <jmkasunich> cradek: yes, the F1 button does correctly control the user-enable-out HAL pin
[01:44:57] <jmkasunich> the issue is the emc-enable-in pin
[01:45:30] <jmkasunich> if it goes false for any reason (either because the user hit F1, _or_ because of an external estop) the exact same chain of events should occur, resulting in a shut down machine
[01:45:53] <cradek> sure
[01:46:07] <cradek> but they don't I take it
[01:46:08] <jmkasunich> but it seems that the spindle disable "event" is not driven by emc-enable-in, but rather by something upstream
[01:46:25] <cradek> f1 sends a set-machine-state nml message
[01:46:34] <jmkasunich> thats the problem
[01:46:47] <jmkasunich> a falling edge on emc-enable-in should be what sends that message
[01:47:05] <jmkasunich> IMO that entire state stuff is fscked
[01:47:12] <jmkasunich> and it should be in realtime anyway
[01:47:17] <cradek> well all the gui can do is send a message
[01:47:41] <jmkasunich> f1 should send a message saying "turn off user-enable-out"
[01:47:51] <cradek> right, that can't be realtime
[01:47:59] <cradek> everything after that can/should be
[01:47:59] <jmkasunich> doesn't have to be
[01:48:07] <jmkasunich> but emc-enable-in should be
[01:48:12] <cradek> yes
[01:48:41] <jmkasunich> I really think that a significant amount (maybe all) of iocontrol's functionality should be moved into realtime
[01:48:56] <jmkasunich> mayb enot all
[01:49:02] <jmkasunich> maybe not all
[01:49:04] <cradek> spindle speed needs to be moved for CSS
[01:49:10] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:49:22] <cradek> I've been trying to look the other way about that
[01:50:01] <jmkasunich> this is an "architecture evolution" issue
[01:50:08] <jmkasunich> iocontrol replaces the original IO task
[01:50:35] <jmkasunich> the original IO task was supposed to be semi-custom or custom code implementing in C++ whatever machine logic was needed
[01:50:41] <cradek> right
[01:50:47] <jmkasunich> except now we want to do that in HAL/Classicladder
[01:51:46] <cradek> I don't see why it doesn't work; io.aux.estop is set from the hal pin
[01:52:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has a question
[01:52:12] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: shoot
[01:52:21] <Jymmm> what is a "hal pin" ?
[01:52:46] <Jymmm> specifically the 'pin' part
[01:52:48] <jmkasunich> its how hal components connect to each other
[01:52:58] <jmkasunich> think of a hal component as an IC on a PC board
[01:53:07] <jmkasunich> say a counter, or an op-amp, or something
[01:53:12] <Jymmm> sorta like SPI ?
[01:53:29] <jmkasunich> each IC has pins, and they are connected by PC board traces, called HAL signals
[01:53:34] <jmkasunich> no, not SPI
[01:53:42] <jmkasunich> more like analog signals, or single bits
[01:54:18] <Jymmm> so on this pin, serial instructions are sint on it?
[01:54:22] <jmkasunich> no
[01:54:23] <Jymmm> sent
[01:54:40] <jmkasunich> a pin is either a float, an int, or a bit
[01:54:40] <Dallur> This is actually covered quite well in the pdf documentation -> http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
[01:55:01] <jmkasunich> for a float, think of a analog signal
[01:55:20] <jmkasunich> audio for instance, or a 0-10V signal from a potentiometer
[01:55:25] <Jymmm> jmkasunich ok, so just a bit. got it.
[01:56:11] <jmkasunich> cradek: io.aux.estop?
[01:56:18] <cradek> yeah
[01:56:37] <jmkasunich> how does that result in the spindle getting turned off?
[01:56:41] <cradek> bringing the hal pin low should trigger an nml message to be sent from iotask
[01:57:21] <cradek> the nml message causes the io stat buffer to be updated with the new io.aux.estop value
[01:57:35] <cradek> then later emctaskmain.cc comes around and notices that, and shuts stuff off
[01:58:07] <jmkasunich> lemme cvs up and test again
[01:58:14] <jmkasunich> maybe you fixed both bugs?
[01:58:21] <cradek> that's extremely likely
[01:58:27] <jmkasunich> can't be - this one exists in 2.0.1 and head
[01:58:33] <jmkasunich> the one you fixed was in head only
[01:58:45] <cradek> oh
[01:59:23] <jmkasunich> ok, test procedure for this one:
[01:59:31] <jmkasunich> 1) start stepper_mm (or stepper_mm_axis)
[01:59:39] <jmkasunich> 2) F1, F2, F9
[02:00:33] <jmkasunich> 3) bin/halmeter pin iocontrol.0.spindle-on &
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> 4) 4) bin/halcmd show sig iocontrol.0.us
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> Signals:
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> Type Value Name
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> bit TRUE iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[02:01:02] <jmkasunich> ==> iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[02:01:03] <jmkasunich> <== iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[02:01:12] <jmkasunich> thats just to see what is hooked up
[02:01:48] <jmkasunich> 5) bin/halcmd unlinkp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[02:01:56] <jmkasunich> disconnect the signal coming from F1
[02:02:12] <jmkasunich> 6) verify
[02:02:13] <jmkasunich> bin/halcmd show sig iocontrol.0.us Signals:
[02:02:14] <jmkasunich> Type Value Name
[02:02:14] <jmkasunich> bit TRUE iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[02:02:14] <jmkasunich> ==> iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[02:02:23] <jmkasunich> make the signal false
[02:02:53] <jmkasunich> bin/halcmd sets iocontrol.0.user-enable-out 0
[02:03:01] <jmkasunich> and it worked!?!?
[02:03:23] <jmkasunich> WTF?
[02:03:35] <cradek> uhhhh
[02:03:52] <cradek> it *couldn't* have worked before, the code was gone
[02:04:00] <cradek> maybe 2.0.1 is broken differently
[02:04:02] <jmkasunich> it didn't work before
[02:04:06] <jmkasunich> but its seems to work now
[02:05:16] <jmkasunich> it now appears that "sets iocontrol.0.user-enable-out 0" and "sets iocontrol.0.user-enable-out 1" are equivalent to hitting F1 repeatedly
[02:05:23] <jmkasunich> 0 shuts it down
[02:05:37] <jmkasunich> 1 brings it out of estop, waiting for an F2
[02:05:49] <cradek> can you do the same test in 2.0.1?
[02:06:09] <jmkasunich> hang on a bit, checking other things
[02:06:23] <Dallur> It's just past 2am here and I have to be up at 7am so I need to go to sleep but I will leave the computer running and read up tomorrow morning, gnite
[02:06:34] <cradek> goodnight Dallur
[02:06:35] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:06:58] <jmkasunich> ok, I can make funny things happen
[02:07:14] <jmkasunich> remember, I unlinked the wire from user-enable-out to emc-enable-in
[02:07:28] <jmkasunich> it sucks that the signal (which remains connected to emc-enable-in) is called user-enable-out
[02:07:38] <jmkasunich> thats one bad thing about linkpp - dumb signal naming
[02:07:41] <jmkasunich> anyway...
[02:08:06] <jmkasunich> start the machine (signal = 1, then hit F2) start the spindle (hit f9)
[02:08:16] <jmkasunich> spindle-on hal pin goes on
[02:08:31] <jmkasunich> if I set the signal to zero, all is good, it turns off
[02:08:50] <jmkasunich> if I hit F1, I would _not_ expect it to trip, since I disconnected that
[02:09:11] <jmkasunich> but the spindle-on bit turns off
[02:09:26] <cradek> we've got two paths
[02:09:36] <jmkasunich> interestingly, the GUI spindle button still says "spindle forward" (the bug you just fixed)
[02:09:48] <cradek> hitting f1 sends nml message that changes the stat buffer, task notices and turns off the spindle
[02:09:51] <cradek> OR
[02:10:13] <cradek> iotask polling the hal pin sees it change, sends the message that changes the stat buffer, ... like above
[02:10:39] <jmkasunich> except one case also turns off the displayed spindle status and the other doesn't
[02:10:45] <jmkasunich> (I think, lemme double check that)
[02:11:40] <jmkasunich> yeah, if I turn off the emc-enable-in HAL signal, the GUI estop button goes from ON to ESTOP, the spindle button goes from FOREWARD to OFF, and the spindle break button goes from OFF to ON
[02:12:58] <jmkasunich> but if I hit F1 instead of turning off emc-enable-in, the GUI estop button goes from ON to ESTOP-RESET, the spindle button remains on FORWARD, and the brake remains OFF
[02:13:10] <jmkasunich> (but the spindle HAL pin does turn off as it should)
[02:13:31] <jmkasunich> the first item, the GUI button going from ON to ESTOP-RESET instead of ESTOP, is correct
[02:13:41] <cradek> that's with the hal loopback unhooked right?
[02:13:49] <jmkasunich> because emc-enable-in is still true, it should be in the reset state
[02:13:50] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:14:03] <jmkasunich> IMO, with it unhooked, F1 should do nothing at all
[02:14:31] <cradek> IMO, damned if you do, damned if you don't
[02:15:18] <cradek> so with the hal config right (hooked up), it works right now?
[02:15:53] <jmkasunich> well, we can debate what it should do with the link unhooked, but I think the two choices are "nothing" and "estop as if the signal went away", not "do half of an estop (kill the spindle but don't reset the GUI buttons)"
[02:16:15] <jmkasunich> "with the hal config right" is a loaded statement
[02:16:31] <jmkasunich> if you connect user-enable-out directly to emc-enable-in, I suspect it does work right
[02:16:58] <jmkasunich> but what if a user connects user-enable-out thru a ladder rung, ANDing it with an external estop
[02:17:05] <jmkasunich> does it still work right?
[02:17:13] <jmkasunich> I suppose I could do that, I
[02:17:18] <jmkasunich> I'm lazy tho
[02:17:50] <cradek> I've always pictured this as user-enable-out -> some hard buttons (that also kill power if you're smart) -> emc-enable-in
[02:18:08] <cradek> is that not how it's used?
[02:18:10] <jmkasunich> right (contacts in series = AND gate)
[02:18:31] <cradek> yes
[02:19:06] <jmkasunich> but we have two paths, one that goes as just described (thru emc-enable-in) and one that goes somewhere else
[02:19:18] <jmkasunich> the one that goes somewhere else only does part of an estop
[02:20:11] <cradek> I understand
[02:20:17] <jmkasunich> I don't like that secondary path
[02:21:36] <cradek> so if we could make the gui estop ONLY set that output hal pin, would this be fixed?
[02:21:48] <jmkasunich> I would think so
[02:21:57] <jmkasunich> I thought thats what it was supposed to do
[02:22:37] <jmkasunich> much of the problem comes from the fact that that GUI button is massively overloaded
[02:22:56] <cradek> yep
[02:23:14] <cradek> and the trinary machine state thing makes it worse (we don't have trinary buttons)
[02:23:29] <cradek> ack, brb
[02:23:35] <jmkasunich> it is an input to the GUI (state, pushed in or pulled out), it is a display from the GUI (is the complete chain, including the local button OK?) and it is also used as an edge triggered reset when the chain is latched
[02:24:20] <jmkasunich> we're not going do fix this (or decide what is right) tonight
[02:24:33] <jmkasunich> I should be machining CIM jig parts
[02:28:08] <cradek> well is the immediate bug fixed? I mean is it no worse than ever?
[02:28:27] <jmkasunich> yes, its no worse than ever
[02:28:36] <cradek> ok, that's good I guess
[02:28:51] <jmkasunich> in fact I think even his second bug report is fixed
[02:29:06] <jmkasunich> I think
[02:29:12] <cradek> it's impossible that I fixed anything in 2.0.1
[02:29:27] <cradek> even I'm not that good
[02:29:35] <jmkasunich> really have to test it properly, with a ladder rung merging the internal estop with an external one
[02:29:38] <jmkasunich> but not tonight
[02:29:46] <cradek> yeah
[02:29:58] <cradek> I'm going to try to work on arcs a bit
[02:30:09] <cradek> (I hate arcs)
[02:30:09] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna make steel chips
[02:30:26] <cradek> that sounds better
[02:30:36] <jmkasunich> a little
[02:30:56] <jmkasunich> damn.... its hard to move over to the lathe when there's a cat laying in your lap
[02:31:19] <cradek> you have to do the tablecloth trick and leave the cat, still asleep, in the chair
[02:31:31] <cradek> it probably takes years to master
[02:31:36] <jmkasunich> thats kinda impossible
[02:31:50] <cradek> well, I know
[02:31:54] <jmkasunich> the needles latch on as soon as you start to move
[02:32:02] <cradek> haha
[02:32:09] <cradek> have to keep those trimmed
[02:32:22] <jmkasunich> good idea
[02:32:26] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich gets out the dikes
[02:34:20] <jmkasunich> well that worked... trimmed 5 on the left foot and 3 on the right, before she got miffed and went away
[02:34:37] <cradek> that's a pretty good fraction of them
[02:34:46] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:35:12] <cradek> one of the new kittens here has 22? claws
[02:35:29] <cradek> six on the backs
[02:35:30] <jmkasunich> 6 toes per foot?
[02:35:45] <cradek> 5 in front, 6 in back I think
[02:35:47] <jmkasunich> mutant kitty
[02:36:01] <jmkasunich> any maine coon blood in her? (him?)
[02:36:03] <cradek> it's bizarre, the "thumb" is longer than the rest and up in front instead of back like usual
[02:36:15] <cradek> no idea, he's a total "mutt"
[02:36:26] <jmkasunich> I think extra toes is a maine coon thing
[02:36:27] <cradek> if he stands with his feet together, they're wider than his head
[02:36:50] <cradek> one of his sisters has extras too, but the other is "normal"
[02:37:11] <jmkasunich> heh, kitten heads - my wife describes them as golf balls with flaps (ears)
[02:37:19] <cradek> haha
[02:37:47] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/kittens.jpg
[02:38:11] <jmkasunich> pile o' kitties
[02:38:24] <jmkasunich> growing fast
[02:38:28] <cradek> yep
[02:38:47] <jmkasunich> how old are they?
[02:38:59] <cradek> they were born on april fool's day
[02:39:08] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:39:18] <jmkasunich> 10 weeks or so then
[02:39:31] <jmkasunich> have homes lined up for them? or are you keeping all three?
[02:39:46] <cradek> looks like they're staying
[02:40:20] <cradek> cats += 3
[02:40:47] <jmkasunich> printf ( "%d\n", cats ); ?
[02:41:17] <cradek> um, depends how you count
[02:41:29] <jmkasunich> integers I hope
[02:41:42] <cradek> originally, 2, but their mom still hangs around sometimes
[02:41:46] <cradek> so either 5 or 6
[02:41:48] <jmkasunich> oh, you have part timers
[02:42:03] <cradek> well, or 7, there's another stray that hangs around
[02:42:07] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[02:42:10] <jmkasunich> mom = grandmother of the new ones?
[02:42:21] <cradek> no, their mother
[02:42:36] <jmkasunich> oh, so the mother isn't a regular resident
[02:42:44] <cradek> she's a stray we've fed for a while, and we took her in when she got plump
[02:42:50] <jmkasunich> ah
[02:42:53] <cradek> nope
[02:43:10] <cradek> (then we got her fixed)
[02:43:15] <jmkasunich> so part time mama, 3 little ones, and 2/3 others (adults)
[02:43:18] <jmkasunich> good to hear that
[02:43:37] <cradek> it's going to hurt a bit to get them all done at $150 a head
[02:43:49] <jmkasunich> ouch
[02:43:52] <cradek> but not much choice
[02:44:12] <jmkasunich> exponential growth sucks
[02:44:32] <jmkasunich> maybe you can get a quantity discount?
[02:44:36] <cradek> haha
[02:44:51] <cradek> might be worth shopping around
[02:45:35] <jmkasunich> the local shelter that we've gone to before (volunteered there for a while) has vets that donate spay/neuter work
[02:45:50] <jmkasunich> and they also offer discount coupons that local vets honor
[02:46:25] <jmkasunich> they even have a catch/fix/release program to address the feral cap population
[02:46:30] <cradek> a friend adopted a stray and had him fixed at the shelter, he came home very sick (like they all are when they leave there) and she swore she'd just pay the vet next time
[02:46:31] <jmkasunich> s/cap/cat
[02:46:53] <jmkasunich> I guess it depends on the shelter
[02:47:09] <cradek> I understand they all have that respiratory thing
[02:48:01] <cradek> but I should call there and ask if there's a deal I can get for the strays (that doesn't involve taking them to the shelter)
[02:48:06] <jmkasunich> http://www.geaugahumane.org/programs/index.html
[02:49:09] <cradek> TNR looks great
[02:49:21] <cradek> if they can do it without letting the cat get sick
[02:49:31] <jmkasunich> GHS is an above average shelter
[02:50:57] <Jymmm> $35.50/night in Reno
[02:51:03] <Jymmm> doh!
[02:51:29] <jmkasunich> http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6485510
[02:51:55] <jmkasunich> http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6314134
[02:52:22] <cradek> haha wow
[02:52:49] <cradek> I hear goats are nice personable pets
[02:53:01] <jmkasunich> heh, they have three goats and a chicken right now (in addition to the usual cats and dogs)
[02:53:12] <cradek> a chicken?
[02:53:18] <jmkasunich> http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6314134
[02:53:25] <jmkasunich> "Uncle Fester"
[02:55:29] <jmkasunich> well, this isn't making chips
[02:55:35] <cradek> yeah
[02:55:38] <cradek> or fixing arcs
[02:55:49] <cradek> I'm going to go to bed instead
[02:56:00] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:56:05] <cradek> night
[03:08:51] <cradek> This needs to be better documented, with figures. There are eight possible arcs
[03:08:58] <cradek> arg
[03:52:03] <Jymmm> "...and a pie chart. Definately a pie chart"
[04:02:56] <fenn> wow gCAD3D does STEP import now
[04:03:12] <fenn> now all it needs is a gui that doesn't blow ass
[04:03:16] <Jymmm> http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/
[04:06:51] <fenn> it's pretty amazing for a 700k download with practically no dependencies
[04:19:30] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07lathe_offsets * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: radius-compensated arcs working in xz
[04:20:11] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/comp.ngc: add xz arcs for testing lathe offsets branch
[04:24:43] <fenn> whatever a 'windows xp computer' is
[04:25:07] <cradek> eh?
[04:25:16] <fenn> the link jymmm posted
[04:25:25] <cradek> ah
[04:26:06] <fenn> hmm its only $2000
[04:26:30] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/comp.ngc: all the test cases? right, left comp; cw, ccw arcs; xy, xz planes
[04:27:04] <cradek> $2000 and you don't get a keyboard?
[04:27:21] <cradek> the only computer I need? and it has no keyboard?
[04:27:31] <fenn> actually it does have a keyboard
[04:27:41] <fenn> you just need a pencil to push the tiny little buttons :P
[04:27:57] <cradek> haha
[04:28:02] <cradek> "thumb keyboard" I see
[04:28:11] <cradek> sounds ... efficient
[04:28:19] <fenn> i just want a MEMS head up display
[04:28:40] <fenn> need to remember to buy those mems chips before they throw them in the trash
[04:28:45] <cradek> I guess I already have my dream computer
[04:29:01] <fenn> heh you must have pretty boring dreams
[04:29:07] <cradek> it has a 21" lcd screen, it's relatively fast, it has a 20 year old IBM keyboard
[04:29:41] <cradek> (and never have I had a dream where my computer runs windows xp)
[04:30:00] <fenn> not even when you took the brown acid?
[04:30:24] <cradek> although I did dream about a new kind of user interface experience in a future version of windows that's modeled after a cell phone UI
[04:30:29] <cradek> (not kidding)
[04:30:57] <cradek> this was after I was trying to configure networking on an XP machine at work
[04:31:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Who here plays sudoku?
[04:31:28] <cradek> instead of letting you set the network settings, it now interviews you
[04:31:35] <cradek> with multiple-choice answers
[04:31:49] <fenn> who are you and what is your business messing with my network settings!?
[04:32:10] <cradek> some of which are like: [ ] My office has some computers, but they're not networked yet, but someday we hope to have a network
[04:32:10] <fenn> a) a terrorist b) aunt tillie c) a microsoft certified technician
[04:32:14] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, I am A-L-P-H-A. I pwnd ur boxer!
[04:32:35] <fenn> d) all of the above?
[04:32:41] <cradek> [ ] I want my other windows machines to use the power of this new one for their nefarious networking purposes
[04:32:52] <cradek> it's insane
[04:33:01] <A-L-P-H-A> asnine. (sp?)
[04:33:07] <cradek> I couldn't figure it out anymore, I had to get help from someone who's kept up with the "advances" in windows to help me
[04:33:24] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek... uh... why not just be simple, and use dhcp?
[04:33:37] <cradek> I wanted to cause it to join a domain
[04:34:00] <cradek> there are three things in the control panel (after switching it to "classic view") with the word "network" in them, but none of them are the right one
[04:34:29] <cradek> it turned out to be on a tab under "system" I think, apart from all other networking settings
[04:35:05] <cradek> bah
[04:35:10] <cradek> complain complain
[04:35:25] <cradek> glad I don't have to use that crap (or administer it very often)
[04:37:05] <jmkasunich> I thought you were going to bed
[04:37:14] <cradek> darnit, I forgot
[04:37:20] <cradek> I did finish arcs though
[04:37:28] <jmkasunich> yay!
[04:37:45] <cradek> I'm not sure my program has all the test cases (I'm not an experienced raduis comp user)
[04:37:50] <cradek> or radius comp even
[04:38:56] <cradek> now I'll add X offset to the tool table (just like we have Z now) and I think we'll have very useful lathe tool compensation
[04:39:00] <Jymmm> cradek: right click NETWORK NEIGHBORHOOD, click on properties
[04:39:14] <cradek> Jymmm: it's not in there, trust me
[04:39:21] <jmkasunich> clicky clicky
[04:39:42] <Jymmm> cradek: oh, you wanted to join a domain?
[04:39:47] <cradek> right
[04:39:59] <cradek> you'd THINK it would be in there, but it's not.
[04:40:02] <Jymmm> cradek you actually have a domain setup?
[04:40:36] <cradek> um, why else whould I try to join it?
[04:41:06] <cradek> darn, I really need to finish my lathe conversion now
[04:41:44] <Jymmm> cradek right click MY COMPUTER, click on network ident tab =)
[04:42:03] <cradek> xp?
[04:42:21] <Jymmm> Eh, I just dont see the need for a domain unless you need unified authentication.
[04:42:32] <cradek> haha
[04:43:26] <cradek> hmm, I keep typing a bitterly sarcastic thing and then deleting it
[04:43:48] <Jymmm> go for it
[04:43:53] <cradek> I don't understand why you think you know about my work environment
[04:44:06] <fenn> honestly though, besides being easier to remember, what is the advantage of using a domain name?
[04:44:11] <cradek> that was the kindest I could come up with!
[04:44:32] <cradek> fenn: windows domains are unrelated to dns, they are more like the NIS of the unix world
[04:44:37] <Jymmm> work? you the IT dept now? (I thought you were adding a WS to a domain at home)
[04:45:02] <cradek> no, this was at work, I sure don't own a copy of XP
[04:46:02] <cradek> ok this is crazy, I'm talking about windows on #emc at midnight
[04:46:10] <cradek> forgive me for bringing it up everyone
[04:46:20] <fenn> go roll around in your pile of kittens
[04:46:21] <cradek> oh I was talking about my dream, haha
[04:46:36] <Jymmm> cradek: Tis ok, no need to dispise M$ after 17:00
[04:46:43] <cradek> agreed
[04:47:43] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/comp.png
[04:47:47] <cradek> whee
[04:48:12] <cradek> cutter radius compensation in XY (the usual) and XZ (for lathes)
[04:49:07] <cradek> the three lines are left comp, prorammed path, right comp
[04:50:28] <Jymmm> Um, I dont mean to be a smartass... center line is the toolpath, the outter lines compensate fo the diameter of the tool... other than actually displaying the compensated path, what else does it do/give?
[04:51:39] <cradek> with cutter comp, you can program in the gcode the actual part outline you want, and emc takes care of moving the cutter *around* it
[04:52:04] <cradek> it's very helpful if you sharpen your mills, which makes them smaller diameter
[04:52:11] <Jymmm> ah... cutting a 3" circle using a 1/2" or a 1.8" cutter
[04:52:19] <Jymmm> 1/8"
[04:52:22] <cradek> you don't have to regenerate/rewrite the program when you change tool sizes
[04:52:37] <cradek> right, you can use the same gcode, which will just have a 3" circle programmed
[04:52:46] <Jymmm> ok, gotcha
[04:53:20] <Jymmm> Big diff between CAM and manual gcode, which I do the former, and once on the latter
[04:53:22] <cradek> lathes are even more complex because the tools can be different shapes, and point in different directions
[04:54:05] <fenn> btw i think we will need infinite readahead to make sure we arent gouging the part with cutter comp on
[04:54:30] <fenn> there is only so much you can do though
[04:54:32] <cradek> fenn: with AXIS you get a gouging error when you load the file if it's wrong
[04:54:51] <cradek> in other GUIs you have to run a verify step somehow I think
[04:55:08] <fenn> i thought it did that automatically
[04:55:09] <Jymmm> gouging ERROR?
[04:56:11] <cradek> Jymmm: imagine a square with sharp corners that you want to cut *inside*. there's no way to make that shape with an end mill, so emc gives you an error if you try to do it
[04:56:47] <cradek> if you want to have a square with slightly rounded corners, you have to program it (with arcs in the corners).
[04:56:55] <Jymmm> ah, ok. I know what that is, never had a name for it though
[04:57:07] <Jymmm> inside corners cna never be square
[04:57:25] <cradek> when you put the arcs in so your program represents what can actually be cut, emc will do it
[04:57:43] <cradek> yes, more specifically there can be no concave corners at all
[04:59:31] <Jymmm> Heh, what I'm working on right now, I'm actually having to comensate for guaging control =)
[04:59:53] <Jymmm> and overrun the cutter a tad =)
[05:00:10] <fenn> i think it should at least try to put in an arc of the tool diameter to the next segment
[05:00:32] <Jymmm> fenn how does it know the diameter?
[05:00:41] <fenn> from the tool table
[05:00:51] <Jymmm> do you use the tool table?
[05:01:05] <cradek> fenn: the best you could do for an inside square is a square, no arcs required
[05:01:26] <fenn> Jymmm: the problem is when it runs into a segment that's after the next segment, like if you have a tiny 45 degree bevel in the corner that it cant reach
[05:01:32] <cradek> fenn: but the algorithm to figure that out is completely different from what emc currently does
[05:02:08] <fenn> ah right, it doesnt need an arc, what am i thinking
[05:02:24] <cradek> fenn: you could do an acceptable smarter comp without worrying about that little fillet - just error on it
[05:02:53] <fenn> cradek: yeah but say your "little fillet" is 1000 polylines
[05:03:07] <cradek> you'd error on the first one
[05:04:13] <cradek> I stopped cutting at the place tangent to segments 1 and 2 (in the corner) and now that I'm moving on to consider the corner of segments 2 and 3, I notice that I've already cut into segment 3, or its endpoint is under the tool, so error
[05:04:16] <fenn> how do you know you cant reach that segment?
[05:04:35] <fenn> if the segment you're running into is 1000 segments ahead
[05:04:52] <fenn> you have to continually check 1000 segments ahead for each segment dont you?
[05:04:53] <cradek> oh that's another problem
[05:05:31] <cradek> emc does NOT check for an intersecting path
[05:05:51] <fenn> hmm yeah i guess sometimes you'd want an intersecting path
[05:06:01] <cradek> yeah it can't guess what you want.
[05:06:22] <cradek> the best you can hope for is to error when it can't turn a corner as programmed.
[05:07:34] <cradek> goodnight, I'm really going now
[05:07:56] <fenn> night
[05:09:49] <Jymmm> G'night cradek
[05:10:49] <Jymmm> I picked up a grinder the other day... trying to figure out how to turn one side into a disc sander without something smacking me in the face
[06:28:34] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[06:28:34] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[08:10:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hello?
[08:22:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does anyone know how to set up jogwheels in head cvs?
[08:59:08] <giacus> morning
[09:03:03] <Bo^Dick> mornin'
[10:25:02] <fenn> oh piss, now i gotta figure out how to install multiple gcc's and have emc use the right one
[10:39:32] <alex_joni> fenn: emc2 should figure out the one you used to build rtai
[10:39:38] <alex_joni> it's written in rtai-config
[10:46:42] <fenn> i had to upgrade libstdc++ and it sucked in everything else
[10:46:49] <fenn> including gcc 4.0.2
[10:47:08] <fenn> strangely emc doesn't complain
[11:10:57] <A-L-P-H-A> man, this sucks...one of my clients is going outta business.
[11:17:33] <fenn> better invade a foreign country, quick
[11:21:15] <cradek> fenn: if it's using gcc4 for the userspace c++ only, it doesn't matter
[11:21:28] <cradek> fenn: it only has to use gcc3.2 for the C kernel modules
[11:26:01] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/max-jogwheel.tar.gz
[11:26:45] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: also be sure to update your axis to cvs head to support the axisui.* hal pins
[11:27:01] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: the jog wheel works really great with this setup
[11:49:44] <A-L-P-H-A> morning pick me up... http://break.com/index/slugger19.html bully gets his reward.
[11:53:02] <fenn> * fenn wishes people wouldnt post crap like that
[11:54:38] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn... I hate bullies.
[11:58:52] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.break.com/pictures/bb8328.html hahahahaha... if I had a small dog, I'd get one of tose harnesses for it.
[12:28:01] <jepler> morning guys
[12:28:09] <kerry_> kerry_ is now known as rayh
[12:28:38] <rayh> Hi jeff,
[12:29:24] <A-L-P-H-A> so... umm... why was your name Kerry.
[12:29:28] <rayh> Someone said you wrote a starter serial module. Could you describe it or point me to a link
[12:29:53] <A-L-P-H-A> or is your name Kerry?
[12:29:53] <rayh> I'm working on a compuer as user kerry.
[12:29:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought it was Ray.
[12:29:58] <rayh> It is his box
[12:30:05] <rayh> I am rayh
[12:30:15] <A-L-P-H-A> and Kerry_ is Kerry?
[12:30:24] <A-L-P-H-A> nothing in the wiki?
[12:30:28] <rayh> but away from home and my box is to big to travel with.
[12:30:43] <A-L-P-H-A> she should have legs... ask her to walk. ;)
[12:30:55] <jepler> rayh: I wrote a userspace hal component called "spp". It creates a number of hal "bit"s, which it sets based on data read from its input. there is no actual hardwrae that communicates using the "spp" protocol yet.
[12:31:13] <rayh> Um yes but she wouldn't fit in the luggage
[12:31:30] <rayh> Oh. I see.
[12:31:42] <jepler> rayh: I'll er, "dpp"
[12:31:48] <jepler> I called the protocol "dpp"
[12:32:17] <rayh> okay dpp
[12:32:47] <jepler> "dumbest possible protocol"
[12:32:53] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/hal_dpp.c
[12:33:14] <rayh> * rayh looking
[12:33:34] <jepler> the protocol consists of 1 or more bytes. the high bit of the first byte is set, the rest of the high bits are clear. The other 7 bits of each byte are the data
[12:34:06] <jepler> so a 3-byte protocol would have 21 data bits
[12:34:30] <jepler> the protocol would be the same in the other direction (with emc writing a packet whenever one of the bits changed) but that's not implemented either
[12:35:14] <jepler> it was more an exercise in writing a HAL driver than something I'm sure is useful
[12:35:33] <rayh> I see.
[12:35:36] <jepler> but if you have a panel with a bunch of buttons and a microcontroller, you can probably create this protocol with a very simple program on the microcontroller
[12:35:57] <rayh> Matt was working on communicating with the motor driver we had at fest.
[12:36:23] <rayh> We got as far as sending sets of speed and direction commands but not from emc.
[12:37:07] <rayh> I'm looking a a bunch of face plate panels here in China and was thinking that serial would be ideal for them.
[12:37:15] <rayh> sort of stackable.
[12:37:54] <rayh> I could use keyboard emulation but I'm not sure that I trust that.
[12:38:04] <rayh> I've gotten bit a couple times.
[12:40:31] <jepler> if the "other device" has a protocol of its own, then hal_dpp is not what you're looking for.
[12:42:14] <jepler> and if you want to do real-time serial, there's also the problem that rtapi has no support for it yet. rtai does, but then you lose compatability with the other realtime systems emc2 supports.
[12:42:16] <rayh> Right. The motor driver did have a protocol. Devicenet or modbus or some such.
[12:43:05] <rayh> but the boards I'm looking at would need some sort of descrete to serial device and that could be dpp.
[12:43:34] <rayh> But if more than one were used at the same time there would need to be routing info.
[12:45:16] <jepler> rs232 serial doesn't support multiple writers .. and dpp supports only a single serial port (for now)
[12:46:14] <skunkworks> I thought rs432 did daisy chaining.
[12:46:17] <rayh> Sure. I understand. Just dreaming.
[12:47:42] <jepler> the most I'm likely to do with dpp is write an avr or arm firmware and hook a few buttons up to it .. I don't have a need for a serial-interface operator panel.
[12:47:53] <jepler> (and I don't have such a panel either)
[12:48:54] <alex_joni> skunkworks: rs422 & rs484 both have that
[12:50:40] <skunkworks> that was it. been a while
[12:58:04] <rayh> I'm burned out. Catch you guys later.
[13:16:32] <cradek> logger_aj: bookmark
[13:16:32] <cradek> See
[13:16:45] <giacus> * giacus rendering
[13:16:48] <giacus> :)
[13:16:50] <giacus> hello
[13:17:33] <giacus> seems time to shot some video
[13:17:46] <giacus> should I turn on my cnc monster ? :P
[13:18:53] <giacus> 27 inches/min, I call it baby thunder
[13:18:56] <giacus> haha
[13:20:03] <les_w> morning
[13:20:08] <giacus> hi les_w
[13:20:26] <les_w> bleh started work at 4:30. JuST couldn't sleep
[13:20:33] <giacus> but the funny thing is I can accellerate the movie until 1000 inch/sec after I shot it :D
[13:20:50] <giacus> les_w: warm ?
[13:21:41] <giacus> I sleep 3 hours latest night ..
[13:22:03] <giacus> up to the pavement
[13:22:25] <giacus> 35° C.
[13:22:46] <les_w> warm
[13:23:01] <les_w> it will be about that here in the afternoon
[13:23:34] <giacus> here's tropiacl weather
[13:23:42] <les_w> Run air conditioner some here
[13:23:43] <giacus> tropical*
[13:24:05] <giacus> I have to buy a couple of conditioners
[13:24:26] <les_w> I'm just drawing up fingerburner #3 on autocad
[13:24:34] <les_w> just about done
[13:25:03] <les_w> wish I had time to do it in solidworks
[13:25:03] <giacus> my cousin 'invented' a strange machine
[13:25:06] <giacus> for that
[13:25:07] <les_w> ?
[13:25:17] <giacus> let me take the dictionary ..
[13:25:21] <les_w> k
[13:26:54] <giacus> then, he have a we well of water
[13:27:08] <giacus> about 30 mt under the ground
[13:27:22] <giacus> and use that water for all the rooms of the house
[13:27:29] <les_w> and the water is cold?
[13:27:34] <giacus> yeah
[13:27:39] <giacus> also in the summer
[13:28:25] <les_w> That is done in Chicago a lot. Below the thermocline in lake Michigan water temp is only about 5c even in summer
[13:28:38] <giacus> use a motor with a pump
[13:28:43] <les_w> right
[13:29:55] <giacus> my hous is not small
[13:30:10] <giacus> I'd buy some 28k btu for some room
[13:30:32] <giacus> not cheap , do not save energy :(
[13:31:03] <giacus> I'd need 4-5 conditioners
[13:32:29] <les_w> window air conditioners are cheap here....only $US90 for a one room unit
[13:32:43] <giacus> yeah here too
[13:32:56] <giacus> the eletric energy isnt cheap
[13:33:03] <giacus> especially in the summer
[13:33:05] <les_w> I have them in the machine shop
[13:33:26] <les_w> yes my electric bill is high...but the shop uses a lot of power
[13:33:45] <giacus> 2.5 kw here
[13:33:51] <giacus> 220 V
[13:34:13] <giacus> 2.5 its a standard for a house
[13:34:33] <les_w> I have 200 amp service at 240
[13:34:37] <giacus> but we could ask for upgrade to 3.5 kw
[13:34:49] <les_w> but yes use about 2.5 kWfor air conditioners
[13:34:50] <giacus> the cost change of course..
[13:35:30] <les_w> so 2.5 kW is your total maximum electricity use?
[13:35:40] <giacus> yeah, in my house
[13:35:47] <les_w> wow!!
[13:36:08] <giacus> good ?
[13:36:29] <les_w> mine is 48 kw!!
[13:36:42] <les_w> maximum
[13:36:54] <giacus> first time they changed the counter
[13:37:05] <les_w> but normally I use only a few kW
[13:37:07] <giacus> from old model analogic to new model digital
[13:37:23] <giacus> I was able to change parameters via IR with my pda
[13:37:24] <giacus> LOL
[13:37:28] <les_w> haha
[13:37:31] <giacus> :D
[13:37:43] <giacus> they was using no passwd
[13:37:47] <giacus> enter as passwd
[13:37:54] <les_w> really
[13:37:59] <giacus> after some year they upgrade all
[13:38:04] <giacus> yeah, really
[13:38:12] <giacus> it wasnt a bug
[13:38:15] <giacus> :)
[13:38:37] <les_w> I use a lot of power for lights in the shop
[13:38:41] <les_w> about 1 kw
[13:38:53] <les_w> you need good light to work
[13:39:11] <giacus> http://www.prontoconsumatore.it/uploaded/m/28.jpg
[13:39:27] <giacus> yeah
[13:39:50] <les_w> I see
[13:39:55] <les_w> all curvy
[13:40:06] <les_w> italian styling?
[13:40:14] <giacus> yeah
[13:40:30] <giacus> ENEL s.p.a.
[13:40:51] <les_w> my car was styled by an italian firm
[13:40:54] <les_w> well, the new one anyway
[13:41:27] <giacus> yeah, lot of good designer around here
[13:41:34] <les_w> yes
[13:44:54] <les_w> well drawing is done...time to hit the shop and chew metal
[13:45:31] <giacus> anna and her friend come back to positano today
[13:45:55] <giacus> wanna see some photo she shot yesterday ?
[13:45:56] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/Positano/portodisorrento.html
[13:46:21] <giacus> the other you see in the phots is merilu
[13:46:34] <giacus> maybe you talk her sometime in paltalk
[13:46:42] <giacus> she live in florence
[13:47:07] <giacus> sometime is in the pal room with anna
[13:48:55] <les_w> looking
[13:49:03] <giacus> her nick is capinera
[13:49:45] <giacus> well, yestarday and today the're in positano
[13:49:54] <giacus> tomorrow in capri and after naples
[13:50:20] <giacus> they're really taking fun
[13:50:31] <giacus> and I'm here :( sigh
[13:51:58] <les_w> nice pictures
[13:52:15] <giacus> nikon d50
[13:52:19] <giacus> is her camera
[13:52:24] <les_w> oh she is one the paltalk music group
[13:52:24] <les_w> right?
[13:52:30] <giacus> yeah
[13:52:33] <giacus> capinera
[13:52:58] <les_w> on
[13:53:02] <les_w> yeah
[13:53:04] <giacus> she live in florence, is in naples for some week, holidays
[13:53:21] <les_w> so the pictures are positano?
[13:53:33] <giacus> yeah
[13:53:47] <les_w> it looks like a nice place
[13:53:51] <les_w> where is it?
[13:54:09] <les_w> north or south of naples
[13:54:12] <giacus> near naples, I think 40 km south
[13:54:17] <les_w> I see
[13:54:20] <giacus> near sorrento
[13:54:42] <giacus> well, naples have lot of small islands around too
[13:54:51] <giacus> capri, ischia, nisida etc ..
[13:55:05] <giacus> positano is not an island
[13:55:15] <giacus> but tehy take the boat to go there
[13:55:28] <giacus> in these days is quite impossible to reach it in car
[13:55:35] <giacus> too much traffic
[13:55:50] <les_w> I see
[13:55:51] <giacus> there are the boats from naples to positano, instead
[13:56:20] <giacus> also, its a big problem to park the car there
[13:56:27] <giacus> streets are very small
[13:56:28] <les_w> I was going to buy a boat this summer but I have had no time
[13:56:33] <giacus> all turistic center
[13:56:36] <les_w> keep it in florida perhaps
[13:56:42] <giacus> nice
[13:56:51] <giacus> would be nice a boat
[13:56:58] <les_w> I used to live on an island there
[13:57:03] <giacus> I've one small 4x4 mt
[13:57:12] <giacus> aluminium , that0s for lake
[13:57:18] <giacus> but we use for sea too
[13:57:22] <giacus> only 45 kg
[13:57:28] <les_w> wow
[13:57:31] <giacus> its an old canadian
[13:57:49] <giacus> canadian 370
[13:57:56] <giacus> not more produced
[13:58:11] <giacus> a fisherman whould be nice
[13:58:26] <les_w> I used to sail a lot in florida
[13:59:09] <les_w> here there are few lakes
[14:00:07] <giacus> http://www.7mari.it/introduzione.htm
[14:00:33] <giacus> a fisherman like that :D
[14:01:31] <les_w> here is one a few miles away
[14:01:31] <les_w> http://www.century21poss.com/lbscene.htm
[14:01:34] <giacus> take a look at the inside http://www.7mari.it/35/abordo.htm
[14:02:08] <giacus> cool, nice places :)
[14:02:38] <giacus> we've not lakes so big
[14:02:51] <giacus> the only one is garda, near milano here around
[14:04:27] <giacus> far away from me, 1500 km
[14:05:37] <les_w> nice
[14:10:59] <les_w> owwww I'm out of printer paper.
[14:15:12] <giacus> :-)
[14:15:51] <les_w> I just used photo paper for the print
[14:15:51] <les_w> a waste
[14:15:51] <les_w> heh
[14:16:02] <les_w> well off to the shop
[14:18:01] <giacus> later ;)
[14:21:10] <pier> Hi everybody, I wondered if anyone can help me with pinout config (bdi 4.49)
[14:27:58] <giacus> hi pier
[14:28:11] <giacus> sorry I'm not familiar with bdi
[14:28:23] <giacus> what is emc1 or 2 ?
[14:28:35] <pier> I think 1
[14:28:47] <jepler> you'll find the best support for the version of emc on bdi4 here: http://ourproject.org/moin/projects/bdi4emc most of the people here are using emc2, many of them on Ubuntu.
[14:28:53] <giacus> what your issue ?
[14:29:38] <pier> just trying to to make the jog work properly
[14:29:52] <giacus> check the ini file
[14:29:56] <pier> but the funny thing is that no stepper reverse
[14:29:57] <giacus> input scale
[14:30:02] <pier> done
[14:30:15] <giacus> using negative vaule get opposite direction travel
[14:30:24] <pier> really?
[14:30:58] <giacus> if you're usin 400 use -400
[14:30:59] <pier> I've just set the value accordind to the screw pitch and stepper steps/turn
[14:32:10] <pier> perhaps I am dumb as this is my first attempt
[14:32:44] <pier> burt clicking on the + and - button I espected the stepper to reverse
[14:33:03] <giacus> it should
[14:33:35] <giacus> hope pinout are right on parport too ..
[14:33:39] <pier> as in the emc.ini file there is the direction pis which is supposed to be properly set for each axis
[14:34:43] <pier> when I try with the IO/exercise program all the axis respond alright
[14:35:06] <pier> even though one step at a time
[14:35:39] <pier> enable, dir step atc
[14:35:43] <pier> etc
[14:36:41] <pier> so I tried to instal versionn 2 but there is a variable missindg when make is run...
[14:36:47] <giacus> what drivers are you using ?
[14:36:56] <pier> board?
[14:37:01] <giacus> yeah
[14:37:12] <pier> classic l297/l298
[14:37:24] <giacus> are you sure it work right ?
[14:37:33] <giacus> tried it manually with a 555 ?
[14:37:43] <pier> the machine works perfectly with a program I wrote in Borland C
[14:37:47] <giacus> it sounds to me like an l297 issue
[14:37:55] <giacus> ah, ok then
[14:38:03] <pier> and with turbocnc too
[14:38:15] <pier> I am porting the sw to Linux
[14:38:43] <giacus> are you familiar with linux I suppose
[14:38:49] <pier> but got stuck with the problem of reversing stepper motion too
[14:38:53] <pier> a bit
[14:39:13] <giacus> I used bdi just for few months
[14:39:21] <giacus> after I switched to emc2
[14:39:46] <giacus> but for what i remember never had issues like that
[14:39:54] <giacus> check the input scale ..
[14:40:00] <pier> I can't compile emc2 in my garage pc
[14:40:12] <pier> now I compiled it here at home
[14:40:14] <giacus> if wrong, it can do strange things
[14:40:25] <pier> I'll try that too
[14:40:56] <pier> Bwidget is not present in my slack
[14:41:04] <giacus> the only thing you have to play is the ini file I think
[14:41:28] <giacus> slack ? hehe
[14:41:41] <giacus> hard distro :D
[14:42:01] <pier> I have a fancy that port 378 does not respond as I suppose (unless under Linux)
[14:42:13] <giacus> uh ?
[14:42:36] <pier> 37a works as I am able to enable and disable the stepper at will
[14:42:38] <giacus> already set the address in the ini ?
[14:42:42] <pier> yes
[14:43:11] <giacus> you mean the onboard parport work and the other not ?
[14:43:35] <pier> this is the feeling....
[14:43:55] <giacus> try to disable it from the bios
[14:44:07] <pier> go on...
[14:44:08] <giacus> check dmesg | grep parport
[14:44:12] <pier> never done before
[14:44:21] <giacus> you should find the correct address
[14:44:47] <pier> the address is bound to be correct as I use it under dos
[14:45:03] <pier> 378/379/37A
[14:45:04] <giacus> dos and linux are a bit different maybe ..
[14:45:29] <giacus> dunno how linux treat low level devices
[14:45:32] <pier> yes but the address is the same (I think)
[14:45:43] <giacus> it may could create an alias
[14:46:02] <giacus> or a link
[14:46:41] <pier> mmmh
[14:46:48] <pier> I am so confused
[14:47:12] <giacus> dmesg | grep parport in linux should help
[14:47:24] <pier> I'll have a go and check
[14:47:33] <giacus> parport0: PC-style at 0x278 (0x678), irq 5, dma 3 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP,DMA]
[15:01:04] <pier> weird... emc compiled ok but returns an error
[15:01:10] <pier> emc2
[15:01:25] <pier> Starting emc...
[15:01:26] <pier> ERROR: can't find "fuser", used to verify that it is safe to shutdown realtime
[15:01:26] <pier> Realtime system did not load
[15:01:26] <pier> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC...
[15:01:26] <pier> Cleanup done
[15:03:02] <cradek> what OS is this?
[15:03:35] <pier> linux Slack 10.2 Ker RTAI 3.3 patched
[15:04:05] <cradek> ok so you've started from scratch
[15:04:20] <cradek> you'll have to figure out how to install fuser, it's probably just a package
[15:04:34] <pier> a package?
[15:04:41] <giacus> its a command
[15:04:49] <giacus> probably contained in a package
[15:05:01] <giacus> any distro usually have it already in
[15:05:04] <pier> the fuser command works fine
[15:05:13] <giacus> hm
[15:05:31] <giacus> permissions are ok ?
[15:05:44] <pier> tried as user and as su as well
[15:05:51] <cradek> maybe it's not in your path?
[15:05:55] <pier> same message
[15:06:04] <pier> fuser?
[15:07:00] <giacus> weird
[15:07:28] <cradek> it searches for fuser in /bin and /sbin
[15:07:34] <cradek> yours must be somewhere different
[15:07:47] <giacus> make a simbolic link
[15:07:49] <pier> which fuser
[15:07:50] <pier> /usr/bin/fuser
[15:07:50] <pier> root@darkstar:/home/pier/emc2#
[15:07:57] <cradek> or fix the 'realtime' script
[15:08:14] <cradek> (I can't fix it in cvs right now)
[15:08:32] <pier> think it's beyond me
[15:08:38] <cradek> you should not run emc2 as root
[15:08:43] <cradek> ok I'll help
[15:08:49] <cradek> open up scripts/realtime in your editor
[15:08:56] <pier> as user?
[15:09:03] <cradek> yes you should run emc2 as your usual user
[15:09:24] <pier> done
[15:09:36] <cradek> around line 84 find this:
[15:09:41] <cradek> elif test -x /sbin/fuser ; then
[15:09:49] <cradek> on that line AND the following one, change sbin to usr/bin
[15:09:50] <pier> ok
[15:10:32] <pier> and FUSER line 85?
[15:10:40] <pier> the same?
[15:10:43] <cradek> yes change line 85 to say FUSER=/usr/bin/fuser
[15:10:59] <cradek> so now it says
[15:11:04] <cradek> elif test -x /usr/bin/fuser ; then
[15:11:10] <cradek> FUSER=/usr/bin/fuser
[15:11:38] <cradek> darnit, I told you wrong
[15:11:39] <pier> done
[15:11:43] <cradek> you should do this in realtime.in, not realtime
[15:11:53] <pier> no problem
[15:11:57] <cradek> make the same change also in realtime.in
[15:12:16] <pier> save these changes in realtime?
[15:12:35] <cradek> it doesn't matter, it will be overwritten by configure
[15:12:42] <pier> ok
[15:13:29] <pier> done
[15:13:33] <cradek> ok great
[15:13:35] <cradek> now go back to ../src
[15:13:43] <cradek> run "./configure --enable-run-in-place"
[15:14:23] <pier> ok
[15:14:24] <pier> done
[15:14:27] <cradek> make
[15:14:30] <pier> make
[15:14:35] <cradek> is that how you ran configure before?
[15:14:40] <pier> yes
[15:14:44] <cradek> ok great
[15:14:49] <pier> done
[15:14:52] <cradek> after make, cd .., scripts/emc
[15:15:20] <pier> no need to run sudo make setuid?
[15:15:28] <cradek> only if it tells you to
[15:15:31] <cradek> (can't hurt)
[15:16:02] <pier> Starting emc...
[15:16:02] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:02] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:02] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:02] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:03] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:05] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:05] <cradek> oops
[15:16:07] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:09] <pier> module_helper is not setuid root
[15:16:11] <pier> ERROR: Could not load 'rtapi'
[15:16:11] <cradek> you're right then, sudo make setuid
[15:16:13] <pier> ERROR: Could not load 'hal_lib'
[15:16:15] <pier> Realtime system did not load
[15:16:17] <pier> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC...
[15:16:19] <pier> kill 12689: No such process
[15:16:21] <pier> Cleanup done
[15:17:24] <cradek> still there?
[15:17:36] <cradek> after sudo make setuid, does it work now?
[15:17:45] <pier> no
[15:17:50] <pier> a sec
[15:19:41] <pier> have to add a sudoer
[15:19:57] <pier> now I don't remember how
[15:20:46] <cradek> just su to root, then run make setuid
[15:20:57] <cradek> emc2 does NOT necessarily use sudo
[15:20:58] <pier> already done :(
[15:21:19] <pier> ok
[15:21:30] <cradek> brb
[15:21:32] <pier> must have done something wrong
[15:22:14] <pier> Starting emc...
[15:22:14] <pier> RTAPI: ERROR: failed to map shmem
[15:22:14] <pier> HAL: ERROR: could not open shared memory
[15:22:14] <pier> IOCONTROL: ERROR: hal_init() failed
[15:22:14] <pier> can't initialize the HAL
[15:22:15] <pier> RTAPI: ERROR: failed to map shmem
[15:22:17] <pier> HAL: ERROR: could not open shared memory
[15:22:19] <pier> halcmd: hal_init() failed
[15:22:21] <pier> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[15:22:23] <pier> HAL config file /home/pier/emc2/configs/stepper//core_stepper.hal failed.
[15:22:25] <pier> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC...
[15:22:27] <pier> RTAPI: ERROR: failed to map shmem
[15:22:29] <pier> HAL: ERROR: could not open shared memory
[15:22:33] <pier> halcmd: hal_init() failed
[15:22:35] <pier> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[15:22:37] <pier> halcmd: hal_init() failed
[15:22:39] <pier> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[15:22:41] <pier> halcmd: hal_init() failed
[15:22:43] <pier> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[15:22:45] <pier> Cleanup done
[15:22:47] <pier> insmode rtapi?
[15:23:40] <giacus> pier: already tested rtai ?
[15:23:54] <giacus> after compiled
[15:23:59] <pier> with some demos that comes with it
[15:24:04] <giacus> yeah
[15:24:10] <giacus> it work ?
[15:24:15] <pier> but this is the first attempt
[15:24:23] <giacus> there's the latency test
[15:24:33] <pier> I think I did it
[15:24:47] <giacus> a bunch of 'strage' numbers..
[15:24:52] <giacus> strange*
[15:25:02] <cradek> back
[15:25:03] <pier> yes the latency test
[15:25:14] <cradek> does your OS use udev?
[15:25:29] <pier> sorry?
[15:25:32] <cradek> if so, you'll have to arrange for /dev/rtai_shm to be created when you reboot
[15:25:40] <cradek> it's an rtai configuration issue
[15:26:08] <pier> ok ok but I won't waste your time...
[15:26:13] <cradek> those errors are because /dev/rtai_shm does not exist when emc is run
[15:27:12] <pier> so I'll have to create a device?
[15:27:25] <cradek> well each OS has a different way of dealing with /dev
[15:27:36] <cradek> typically today they use "udev" which means the devices are created when necessary
[15:27:46] <cradek> unfortunately rtai doesn't work very well with udev yet
[15:27:58] <pier> ok
[15:27:59] <cradek> so you have to figure out how to get it to work, perhaps by making it with "mknod" after every boot
[15:28:22] <cradek> some systems have a way to make some things in /dev persistent, even though most are handled by udev
[15:28:50] <cradek> there is a lot of discussion about this lately on the rtai mailing list
[15:28:59] <jepler> this wiki page gives the command to create /dev/rtai_shm: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[15:29:07] <jepler> "If these files do not exist, you can create them, for example: sudo mknod /dev/RTAI_SHM c 10, 254;"
[15:29:40] <jepler> (hm, that should probably be /dev/rtai_shm instead)
[15:29:47] <cradek> yes it should
[15:30:43] <pier> ok ... for the time being I'll stick to bdi and see what has to be done to make it work..
[15:30:52] <pier> Thanks a lot to everyone
[15:31:22] <pier> I'll go to the garage and sweat some more with it
[15:32:00] <cradek> pier: if you want to switch away from bdi, ubuntu is a better choice than slackware, since we've done all this work already
[15:32:15] <cradek> all depends on what you're trying to do
[15:36:23] <pier> ok thanks...
[15:36:47] <bill203> eeeehslackware
[15:37:08] <cradek> sounds like you have your slackware setup 99% done, just this udev problem remains
[15:44:25] <Rugludallur> chinemill: hey
[16:11:58] <giacus> well, I concluded that slackware or gentoo-like distro are nice, also linux from scratch.. but is it really convenient to do all that work?
[16:12:06] <giacus> sometime not, I think
[16:13:02] <giacus> gentoo users are maniacs for me ..
[16:14:07] <giacus> crazy :D
[16:17:10] <giacus> someone go to create his own linux from scratch and totally forget things about security
[16:17:19] <giacus> got no updates
[16:17:31] <giacus> 2 times crazy !
[16:18:13] <giacus> just to have theyr own customized distro ..
[16:19:06] <giacus> stayng 3/4 of the time compiling code to use applications
[16:19:19] <giacus> 3 times crazy!
[16:19:19] <pier> do you think that emc2 could solve the problm with the pinout? In that case I could go downstairs and see the exact error message when giving make
[16:19:34] <giacus> pier: sure
[16:19:42] <pier> wireless not setup yet :(
[16:19:45] <giacus> emc2 is stable yet
[16:19:57] <pier> so out I go
[16:20:06] <pier> be back in a tick
[16:20:16] <giacus> just you choosed the hard way ..
[16:20:32] <cradek> emc2 is 100% configurable, it's trivial to change the pinout
[16:30:01] <giacus> pier: if you try the coolcnc you'll be surprised how it work in only about 100 mb
[16:30:36] <giacus> but a good distro need to be updated often
[16:30:43] <giacus> especially security updates
[16:30:57] <giacus> that's why the emc2 team use Ubuntu
[16:31:40] <giacus> cradek: did a lot of work creating packages
[16:31:53] <giacus> think to create packages for any distro ..
[16:31:56] <jepler> yeah, we owe a lot to cradek and alex for creating good package for ubuntu
[16:32:03] <giacus> how many time and work is nedeed
[16:32:13] <giacus> pratically impossible at this time
[16:42:40] <giacus> and more important thing you have to update all anytime ..
[16:42:55] <giacus> would be absurd
[16:43:21] <pier> well... here I am again
[16:43:29] <pier> this is the error message
[16:44:19] <pier> makefile:225 *** KDIR not set and /lib/modules/ is not a valid build location
[16:44:33] <cradek> argh
[16:44:44] <pier> is that bad?
[16:44:47] <cradek> that means your kernel is not configured for building third-party modules
[16:45:10] <cradek> that /lib/modules/.../build is typically a symlink that points to your kernel source or kernel headers
[16:45:13] <pier> this is the sarge bdi 4.49 installation
[16:45:31] <cradek> oh
[16:45:45] <cradek> I'm not a bdi expert but there might be instructions on the wiki
[16:45:57] <cradek> I don't know if they're updated for bdi 4.49
[16:46:12] <jepler> these are the latest instructions on the wiki: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2
[16:46:26] <pier> I thught I could compile emc2 on that
[16:46:29] <pier> thanks
[16:46:39] <cradek> you can, after some work configuring bdi properly
[16:47:13] <jepler> it may be the linux-headers package that you are lacking
[16:48:09] <giacus> run apt-get update/upgrade too
[16:49:06] <pier> ok there's no hope... there's no internet available on the garage pc
[16:49:16] <giacus> pier: and to be honest, bdi is a bit away from here yet
[16:49:30] <pier> ok
[16:49:43] <giacus> latest time I seen the mantainer was many months ago
[16:49:50] <giacus> you know that I suppose
[16:50:27] <giacus> :)
[16:50:59] <jepler> if the only problem with the emc that came on the bdi machine was the direction polarity, you can probably fix that with some help from the mailing list bdi4emc-help@lists.ourproject.org
[16:51:06] <giacus> we just could look at the cristal sphere to know ..
[16:51:31] <cradek> that's the problem you're trying to fix? an axis direction is backward?
[16:52:10] <pier> all the axis spin in one only direction
[16:52:29] <cradek> ok that's different then
[16:52:37] <jepler> I guess I didn't understand either
[16:52:51] <pier> I configured the ini file
[16:52:55] <cradek> do you think the direction signals are on the wrong pins?
[16:53:07] <pier> I am not sure of that
[16:53:19] <pier> but the weird thing is
[16:53:35] <cradek> I think there is a way to set the pinout in bdi4emc with a long hex number but none of us here has a clue how that works
[16:53:54] <pier> that with the test tcl script that comes with the software
[16:54:24] <pier> I verified that setting the proper bits on and off
[16:54:28] <jepler> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550
[16:55:24] <pier> every single axis moves as expected
[16:56:09] <pier> e.g.
[16:56:56] <pier> I first enable the X axis setting high the bit 2 on port 27a
[16:57:00] <cradek> pier: I agree that if you want to use bdi4emc you should try that mailing list like jepler said
[16:57:11] <cradek> we really don't know how those tests etc. work
[16:57:25] <pier> ok thanks sorry for pestering you
[17:13:18] <giacus> hello SWPadnos :)
[17:13:23] <SWPadnos> hi there
[17:13:41] <giacus> what's up ?
[17:13:54] <SWPadnos> not much - just eating some lunch
[17:14:01] <giacus> cool :P
[17:14:51] <giacus> SWPadnos: 2 times I like vey much
[17:14:57] <giacus> the second is to eat
[17:15:05] <SWPadnos> lunch and sleep? ;)
[17:15:10] <giacus> hah
[17:15:14] <giacus> not really ..
[17:15:19] <SWPadnos> unless you allow for other participants
[17:15:51] <giacus> nah, I'm unique
[17:16:18] <SWPadnos> well, some things are more fun if you have a - erm - partner ;)
[17:16:27] <giacus> to eat yes!
[17:18:24] <giacus> I'm ready to share the cats I have here
[17:18:37] <giacus> not the k4ts :D
[17:19:02] <giacus> they are eating as demons
[17:19:10] <giacus> mmmh
[17:19:25] <giacus> the things is going to be expensive..
[17:19:46] <giacus> they're 4 until now
[17:19:56] <giacus> have to stop
[17:20:26] <SWPadnos> you have four cats (not K4ts), or they're 4 (years,months) old?
[17:20:43] <giacus> 4 cats
[17:20:52] <giacus> they were 2
[17:21:08] <giacus> I think they like the food I buy
[17:21:09] <SWPadnos> that's not too many
[17:21:16] <giacus> no ?
[17:21:24] <SWPadnos> when you have 10 or more, it's time to seriously get psychiatric help
[17:21:26] <giacus> I'm at defcon 1
[17:21:43] <giacus> there's a dog too
[17:21:57] <SWPadnos> well, that's the problem then ;)
[17:23:49] <giacus> oh, yes
[17:24:05] <giacus> I love my cats but I think tehy don't love me
[17:24:12] <giacus> just comes to eat ..
[17:24:22] <giacus> the dog is very different
[17:24:55] <SWPadnos> with cats, you just have to understand who's the master
[17:24:57] <SWPadnos> (they are)
[17:25:06] <giacus> really
[17:25:10] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/cat.JPG
[17:25:18] <skunkworks> king howie
[17:25:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:25:43] <giacus> skunkworks: haha
[17:25:47] <giacus> cool
[17:39:29] <skunkworks> http://web.archive.org/web/20010721090924/http://www.linuxcnc.org/
[17:40:11] <SWPadnos> yeah - I kinda miss the old look
[17:40:15] <SWPadnos> NOT!
[17:40:32] <skunkworks> :)
[18:20:53] <giacus> * giacus needs an audio editor for Linux!
[18:22:01] <giacus> have to do tame few high peaks
[18:25:06] <giacus> les_w: !
[18:27:48] <giacus> should audacity do that ?
[18:28:37] <giacus> argh, wonderful free sound piece
[18:28:53] <giacus> have a bad peak
[18:31:41] <giacus> here is http://www.giacus.org/files/audacity.png
[18:31:55] <giacus> under the play button :(
[18:32:04] <giacus> does anyone know how to remove it ?
[18:35:43] <giacus> ahhh got it
[18:35:46] <giacus> cutted :D
[18:36:51] <giacus> woowo
[18:48:00] <Bullzebub> ello
[18:48:12] <jepler> welcome Bullzebub
[18:48:19] <Bullzebub> thnx :-)
[18:48:23] <SWPadnos> hi Bullzebub (nice name ;) )
[18:48:53] <Bullzebub> whoah! i havent been in a IRC that was this active in a long time! ;-)
[18:49:57] <SWPadnos> yeah - you need broadband for this channel
[18:50:11] <Bullzebub> soo ... are any one of you guys (and gals) running EMC on a non "standard" linux distro?
[18:50:36] <SWPadnos> I'd say - not really
[18:50:45] <SWPadnos> I think fenn runs a fedora version
[18:50:58] <SWPadnos> most of the rest are on ubuntu these days, I think
[18:51:32] <Bullzebub> ok ... i was trying to install it on DSL ... but it didnt go so whell ... and sadly i think ubuntu is a bit ... bloaty ...
[18:51:57] <cradek> the server install is actually pretty small (by today's standards)
[18:52:17] <SWPadnos> there is a puppy based liveCD as well
[18:52:28] <SWPadnos> total of ~50M for the entire distro
[18:53:26] <jepler> yeah but the puppy CD has an old version (before 2.0.0) and doesn't have the bits needed to build a new emc
[18:53:30] <Bullzebub> i tried it. it worked but it really dont seem to work 100% when installed to the HD
[18:54:00] <SWPadnos> I don't like it much personally either - the GUI looks like some old Commodore thing
[18:54:11] <Bullzebub> so true!
[18:54:36] <Bullzebub> although ... -> L had its charm! :-P
[18:54:38] <jepler> Bullzebub: how far did you get on your DSL system?
[18:54:38] <SWPadnos> I've had emc running on a gentoo install as well - it was pretty easy to get it going
[18:57:01] <Bullzebub> well ... the "emc2-install.sh" script didnt work at all ... so i tried to compile it using the "howto". Didnt work. a GCC error i think it was
[18:57:16] <jepler> emc2-install.sh is for ubuntu breezy systems only
[18:57:44] <Bullzebub> im a linux n00b
[18:58:16] <cradek> then you'll want to use a prebuilt OS system for emc to avoid frustration
[18:58:18] <skunkworks> if your a linux n00b - go with ubuntu with all its bloat
[18:58:38] <skunkworks> it is truly painless
[18:58:39] <cradek> the full ubuntu install with all of gnome is still way under 2 gig
[18:58:54] <cradek> I've got some 2 gig scsi disks here you can have :-)
[18:59:19] <jepler> and people here or on #ubuntu will be able to help you switch from the default gnome desktop to something less bloated, like icewm, fluxbox or xfce.
[18:59:29] <Bullzebub> i can fit it .. .but i got a dumpster grade computer and ubuntu isnt that fast on it...:-/ might be better if i change the window manager though
[18:59:40] <skunkworks> I have a few 9gb double hight scsi - seagate
[18:59:56] <cradek> yes avoid gnome if it's slow
[19:00:15] <skunkworks> what is the computer?
[19:00:26] <skunkworks> speed and proccesssor?
[19:00:47] <Bullzebub> so "breezy" is the way to go then? a pIII @ the devilish speed of 666 mHz
[19:00:53] <skunkworks> I am running breezy on a 450mhz
[19:00:59] <skunkworks> that should work fine
[19:01:04] <cradek> my mill's computer is also a PIII 666
[19:01:11] <cradek> it works great
[19:01:31] <cradek> that's a pretty good dumpster machine in my book
[19:01:40] <Bullzebub> nice to hear :-)
[19:01:42] <skunkworks> I agree
[19:01:52] <jepler> Bullzebub: ubuntu breezy is the best choice. we have pre-built emc2 for ubuntu dapper too, but it's very experimental
[19:02:06] <skunkworks> what kind of machine are you trying to run?
[19:02:16] <Bullzebub> is it big difference between dapper and breezy?
[19:02:31] <jepler> Bullzebub: dapper and breezy are really pretty similar from the user's point of view.
[19:02:47] <robin_sz> both are sick and twiste though
[19:02:48] <Bullzebub> well .. it will be a simulated now .. but im goig to get a sherline
[19:03:09] <robin_sz> Debian is the one true way :)
[19:03:54] <skunkworks> that should control a sherline sized mill just fine - that is similar to what cradek has.
[19:04:52] <Bullzebub> sounds great :-)
[19:04:58] <jepler> the machine in the mazak isn't much more powerful, CPU wise
[19:05:20] <cradek> I bet it's slower
[19:05:35] <cradek> (but servos take somewhat less proecssing power)
[19:05:56] <jepler> that's true
[19:06:02] <SWPadnos> (assuming you use software step generation)
[19:06:33] <SWPadnos> (which most people do)
[19:06:36] <Bullzebub> what other software are you guys running then?
[19:06:51] <SWPadnos> CNC-related software?
[19:06:55] <Bullzebub> yeah
[19:07:06] <SWPadnos> I've tried out Mach3, and I have a friend with DeskCNC
[19:07:32] <skunkworks> tried turbocnc - emc2 with axis is what I like the best.
[19:07:37] <robin_sz> Gecko G-REX :)
[19:07:40] <SWPadnos> Mach did fun stuff with timers, such that the entire system got very flaky (and WinAmp sounded very strange)
[19:08:04] <SWPadnos> DeskCNC seems to work, but there are issues with things like feedrate override
[19:08:07] <robin_sz> mach has a nice front end and great macro facility .. but otherwise it sucks
[19:08:58] <Bullzebub> mmm .. plotting toolpath is whats it all about ... flashy GUI isnt :-)
[19:09:13] <SWPadnos> well, we seem to have both here ;)
[19:09:25] <SWPadnos> though luckily nothing actually flashes :)
[19:09:26] <robin_sz> I dont care if its flashy .. so long as its configurable by the user to have what they need
[19:09:40] <SWPadnos> still waiting for those patches ;)
[19:09:49] <jepler> axis doesn't have flash or a reconfigurable GUI, but it does let you see the tool path
[19:09:49] <cradek> haha
[19:10:52] <skunkworks> I call it just right. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/Dapper.png
[19:11:10] <robin_sz> HAL has added much of the boilerplate to emc to make it configurable eventually, as both a controller and a method of hooking up a GUI that will be perfect
[19:12:06] <robin_sz> much of the controller side is all done from what I see, the work being done now will make configurable GYIS a reallity in the not that far away future
[19:12:57] <SWPadnos> yep - it seems that a lot of work lately has been on the UIs, including things like loading non-NC files
[19:13:05] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:13:24] <SWPadnos> though there has been a lot of work on basic stuff as well, like lathe/threading
[19:13:43] <SWPadnos> (thanks to cradek and jepler, who have done most of that work)
[19:13:50] <jepler> I haven't done any of the lathe work
[19:13:59] <SWPadnos> I was including GUI stuff there ;)
[19:14:03] <jepler> ah
[19:14:11] <SWPadnos> thanks anyway :)
[19:14:37] <robin_sz> from what I see, creating a GUI builder of some sort should not be too far way
[19:15:21] <SWPadnos> it probably is, since I think we want to keep the remote GUI capability, which ties us down to things like NML at the moment
[19:15:52] <robin_sz> shrug ... so?
[19:16:01] <jepler> I really don't know what people mean when they say they want a "configurable GUI"
[19:16:19] <Bullzebub> remote GUI?
[19:16:25] <SWPadnos> drag and drop buttons that say things like "start" "stop" and that kind of thing
[19:16:26] <robin_sz> jepler, well, you played with the Mach2 screen editor right?
[19:16:51] <jepler> robin_sz: No. I've seen some version of mach running (I don't know which), but I have never tried to configure it.
[19:16:53] <SWPadnos> HALVCP can do most of what's necessary, but it can;t load files or that kind of thing
[19:17:25] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, exactly, and that will come in time I guess
[19:17:37] <jepler> if somebody wants that, they should get to work
[19:17:52] <SWPadnos> probably not, actually. HALVCP is meant to be a set of user-controlled HAL pins, nothing more
[19:17:55] <Bullzebub> tell me more about this Remote GUI plans?
[19:18:12] <cradek> Bullzebub: emc can be controlled by several guis at once
[19:18:15] <robin_sz> emc already has remot GUI capability ...
[19:18:18] <SWPadnos> it's not plans. you can attach several GUIs to a running EMC, and they don't have to be on the computer that's controlling the machine
[19:18:38] <Bullzebub> mmm ... nice!
[19:19:01] <cradek> some can even be hard switches, lights, jogwheel, etc
[19:19:07] <robin_sz> but they are pretty much pre-defined and hardcoded, so adding say, a user configurable button is not a task the average user can manage right now
[19:19:08] <cradek> totally configurable
[19:19:22] <SWPadnos> VCP is totally configurable, using text files
[19:19:25] <SWPadnos> as is HAL
[19:19:29] <robin_sz> HALVCP yes
[19:19:37] <robin_sz> thats very configurable
[19:19:50] <robin_sz> I was refering to the older stuff, Tkemc or whatever
[19:21:59] <robin_sz> I think HALVCP will extend and someday, someone will write a user tool that allows people to drag and drop stuff to create the text files that configure it
[19:22:17] <SWPadnos> that would be a good thing, and I think it's been discussed
[19:22:23] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[19:24:01] <robin_sz> like ive said for years, if we could have the configuration features of Mach with the stability of EMC, then its a winner.
[19:24:07] <Bullzebub> well .. i think i should go and kick down some doors to get a ubuntu CD and start installing it!
[19:24:11] <Bullzebub> :-P
[19:24:12] <les_w> hey can I quit work early?
[19:24:18] <robin_sz> yes
[19:24:19] <SWPadnos> saying != doing though ;)
[19:24:20] <jepler> les_w: yeah, take the rest of the week off
[19:24:25] <Bullzebub> les_w sure!
[19:24:30] <les_w> haha
[19:24:30] <jepler> les_w: go out and have a beer if that's what sounds good
[19:24:45] <SWPadnos> or bulldoze dung, if it makes you happy
[19:24:54] <jepler> Bullzebub: come back if you have any more questions .. or successes
[19:24:54] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, sure, limited time, hell I barely have time to wind you guys up these days ;)
[19:25:01] <les_w> I have had enough lathe work. Had to make a thing out of 7075 that looks like a tire.
[19:25:15] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, heh - and it's getting harder and harder ;)
[19:25:18] <les_w> I started work at 5:00
[19:25:25] <robin_sz> pm?
[19:25:28] <Bullzebub> i will .. you seem like a nice bunch ... so i might hang here just to harass you guys ;-)
[19:25:34] <les_w> am!!!
[19:25:35] <les_w> ha
[19:25:37] <SWPadnos> oh great.
[19:25:40] <robin_sz> theres a 5 am?
[19:25:43] <robin_sz> coo.
[19:26:05] <SWPadnos> weird - I'd heard of it mathematically, but never experienced it ;)
[19:26:28] <robin_sz> well, Ive met it from the wrong end ...
[19:26:32] <robin_sz> as in styaing up late
[19:26:38] <robin_sz> never from getting up early :)
[19:26:39] <SWPadnos> oh, well that's easy
[19:26:55] <les_w> the chickens wake me.
[19:27:11] <robin_sz> * robin_sz passes les_w an axe
[19:27:14] <robin_sz> problem solved
[19:27:15] <Bullzebub> Bullzebub is now known as Bullzebub|Away
[19:27:31] <les_w> yeah
[19:27:57] <les_w> ach it's hot here
[19:28:00] <robin_sz> hey les, youd have liked the planes at our local fly-n last weekend
[19:28:09] <robin_sz> fly-in
[19:28:16] <les_w> like what?
[19:28:21] <robin_sz> the usual pair of Stearmans ...
[19:28:47] <robin_sz> Spitfire MK11
[19:28:52] <les_w> oh neat
[19:29:00] <robin_sz> that was the best bit actually
[19:29:10] <les_w> like the sound of merlins
[19:29:16] <robin_sz> last year he came in a Mustang
[19:29:47] <les_w> I'm long due a medical and BFR
[19:29:52] <robin_sz> I loved the sound of the clutch on the supercharger engaging ... steep dive, turn up the PSI ...
[19:29:53] <les_w> need to get that done
[19:30:28] <les_w> I like the fire out the pipes when it starts
[19:30:40] <robin_sz> what else ... DC3
[19:31:15] <robin_sz> pleasure flights in the Cessna Caravan .. thats there every year, but im still impressed by its STOL performance
[19:31:37] <les_w> looks impressive on flight simulator
[19:31:58] <les_w> stalls at what...45-50 knots?
[19:32:02] <robin_sz> very good in reallity too .. PT600 making the noise
[19:32:08] <robin_sz> seems to be ...
[19:32:24] <robin_sz> and with reverse thrust landing roll is short
[19:32:30] <les_w> yeah that is the eqivalent of 600 hp I'll bet
[19:33:13] <les_w> too bad the things cost so much
[19:33:35] <SWPadnos> damn: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550
[19:34:38] <les_w> wha....
[19:35:02] <skunkworks> if it is true - i would say something failed in the charging circuit and the battery fraged
[19:35:28] <SWPadnos> indeed - how painful if it had been in a lap at the time
[19:38:37] <Bullzebub|Away> Bullzebub|Away is now known as Bullzebub
[19:38:45] <robin_sz> les_w, yeah 600 SHP, 220m landing roll, 320m take off .. thats laden
[19:39:01] <Bullzebub> would kubuntu breezy work as good as ubuntu breezy?
[19:39:27] <robin_sz> thats the one with KDE?
[19:39:45] <SWPadnos> strangely, there's one issue with kubuntu
[19:39:46] <Bullzebub> yeah
[19:39:53] <robin_sz> it will be slower for sure, as KDE is more bloaty than windows on a bad day
[19:40:02] <SWPadnos> the emc2 menu item shows up under "Lost & Fiound" instead of "Other"
[19:40:08] <SWPadnos> err - Found
[19:40:19] <SWPadnos> otherwise, it works fine
[19:40:26] <Bullzebub> roger ... ill go for the ordinary ubuntu distro then...
[19:40:45] <robin_sz> if you are short on CPU horsepower, id say thats a good plan
[19:41:10] <SWPadnos> I don't think Gnome is significantly less of a hog than KDE
[19:41:16] <robin_sz> ummm
[19:41:34] <SWPadnos> it may be, but I don't think I've really seen it
[19:41:59] <robin_sz> ive run both, Gnome seems a lot faster and lighter
[19:42:08] <SWPadnos> ok. fair enough
[19:42:47] <robin_sz> and KDE is french.
[19:42:48] <robin_sz> oh yes
[19:42:56] <fogl> hello, i have a problem with software limits, i set the to -250 and +250, but if a test one program which doesn't exceed these limits, i get a message that the program exceeded all limits
[19:43:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm. is your machine set up for mm or inch units?
[19:43:34] <robin_sz> is it a units problem maybe? c
[19:43:35] <fogl> mm
[19:44:02] <robin_sz> and the nc file is in mm too?
[19:44:10] <SWPadnos> and the moves you program that give you the error - are those done in G20 or G21 mode?
[19:44:34] <robin_sz> * robin_sz notes SWPadnos is well ahead of him here
[19:44:43] <SWPadnos> if you use G20 (inch), and program a move to 10 inches, that'll be out of bounds
[19:44:44] <fogl> g20
[19:44:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:44:57] <SWPadnos> set it for G21, and see what happens
[19:45:24] <SWPadnos> (or set the user units to inches in the ini file)
[19:49:33] <fogl> ok, this works fine now, thank you!
[19:49:43] <SWPadnos> you're welcome
[19:50:24] <SWPadnos> in the ini file, you can add G21 to RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE, if you want to use mm all the time
[19:50:51] <SWPadnos> (I don't remember exactly where it goes, but there should be a comment about it in some of the ini files)
[19:51:30] <fogl> may i ask one more thing, i tested one program that makes a rectangle, but it actaly rounds these angles, why is that...should i set the acceleration to maximum
[19:52:00] <SWPadnos> the acceleration should accurately reflect what your machine can do
[19:52:15] <SWPadnos> you can then use G64 to change the path following mode (I believe it's G64)
[19:52:39] <jepler> G61 is exact stop mode
[19:52:41] <skunkworks> if you don't want it to blend then run g61 (exact stop mode)
[19:52:47] <jepler> it will not round any corners, but the machine will completely stop at each corner
[19:52:50] <SWPadnos> there's a tolerance option (G64 Pxxx) that lets you tell it the maximum deviation from the programmed path (ie, the amount of rounding allowed)
[19:53:05] <SWPadnos> ah - thanks, jepler
[19:54:27] <cradek> fogl: there's more than you would ever want to know about trajectory control on this wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[19:54:48] <cradek> fogl: it explains the compromises (rounding) and how you can control them to your liking
[19:57:29] <fogl> sorry for my stupid question, but this is my first cnc machine and i newer worked on one before....does the "real" cnc machines also use this roundening for g1 cide?
[19:57:43] <cradek> yes most definitely
[19:57:54] <cradek> it's the only way to avoid stopping at every corner
[19:58:09] <cradek> and stopping can destroy the tool or work
[19:59:29] <cradek> do check out that wiki page, and ask more questions if you're still unsure
[20:01:45] <fogl> i will, thank you
[20:02:59] <giacus> :))
[20:10:35] <cradek> also I should say that if you are getting significant rounding on a small/light machine, it probably means your acceleration limits are set way too low
[20:11:32] <bill203> fogl, is this a diy mill, or a conversion?
[20:12:39] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: fix AXIS, comment; get rid of several debugging prints
[20:13:27] <fogl> diy mill?
[20:16:28] <jepler> "do it yourself"
[20:16:35] <jepler> built from scratch
[20:16:58] <Jymmm> out of old beer cans
[20:17:34] <fogl> yes, but is not a mill, it is a 4 axis hot wire cutter
[20:17:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/setup.py: load a 'splash' g-code file at startup if no other file is requested and we're not in lathe mode
[20:17:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/images/axis.ngc: load a 'splash' g-code file at startup if no other file is requested and we're not in lathe mode
[20:17:54] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: load a 'splash' g-code file at startup if no other file is requested and we're not in lathe mode
[20:21:47] <jepler> fogl: what are the velocity and acceleration you have set? the machine I use most (a mill) is a velocity of less than .5 inch per second but an accel of 20 inch / second^2 or more.
[20:23:39] <fogl> i tryed 30000 mm/s
[20:23:57] <fogl> and it works ok, but i think i wont need that speed
[20:24:25] <alex_joni> 30000 mm/s ?
[20:24:41] <alex_joni> that's 3m / sec ????
[20:25:11] <fogl> yes
[20:25:12] <alex_joni> 108 km/h ~ 60Mph
[20:26:08] <alex_joni> fogl: that's quite some speed
[20:26:24] <alex_joni> what kind of machine is this?
[20:27:08] <fogl> hot wire cutting machine
[20:27:14] <fogl> for styrofoam
[20:27:34] <alex_joni> I'd like to see that once ;)
[20:27:35] <fogl> now i set the speed to 12000...for rapid moves
[20:27:44] <alex_joni> fogl: maybe you can make a movie sometime?
[20:28:17] <fogl> i will, but it is not finished yet
[20:28:32] <alex_joni> fogl: no hurry, just don't forget us :D
[20:29:30] <alex_joni> oh.. misplaced a comma there (only 10kmh, or 6mph)
[20:29:36] <alex_joni> still very fast :D
[20:30:13] <alex_joni> fogl: is it 3m/sec or 30m/sec ?
[20:30:24] <fogl> 3m/s
[20:30:34] <alex_joni> ok.. so that's 3000 mm/s
[20:31:06] <fogl> i dont know actuary...a set it to 30000, bit i seemd to me like 3000
[20:31:25] <fogl> i dont know actualy...a set it to 30000, but i seemd to me like 3000
[20:31:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is seeing double after a couple of beers :D
[20:35:01] <alex_joni> hi ray
[20:35:46] <kerry_> Hi alex
[20:35:57] <alex_joni> still in china?
[20:36:01] <kerry_> how is greece?
[20:36:06] <kerry_> Yes
[20:36:09] <alex_joni> very nice
[20:36:33] <kerry_> Great. It is very hot here.
[20:36:41] <alex_joni> same here.. about 37-38
[20:36:48] <alex_joni> and 96% humidity ;)
[20:36:55] <alex_joni> at least I think I read that
[20:37:06] <kerry_> That is very HOT!
[20:37:17] <alex_joni> anyways, going back home tomorrow..
[20:37:32] <kerry_> Getting the work done?
[20:38:14] <kerry_> kerry_ is now known as rayh
[20:39:06] <alex_joni> yeah, we had some project meetings
[20:39:10] <alex_joni> which are over now :)
[20:39:33] <alex_joni> so we did a bit of sightseeing today
[20:40:06] <jepler> sightseeing >> meetings
[20:40:09] <rayh> As we might say at my home, "I'm shakin hands and makin plans."
[20:40:27] <rayh> Hi jeff
[20:40:35] <jepler> hi ray
[20:41:33] <alex_joni> jepler: indeed ;)
[20:44:01] <alex_joni> jepler: at least I shot some pictures..
[20:53:51] <A-L-P-H-A> y'all miss me? :D
[20:55:55] <skunkworks> who are you?
[20:55:59] <rayh> did we ever!
[20:56:37] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ
[20:57:39] <jepler> stuuuupid
[20:58:48] <jepler> oh god, the pie menu is not dead yet
[20:58:52] <alex_joni> jepler: isn't it?
[20:58:54] <alex_joni> :D
[21:00:26] <cradek> this is a parody isn't it?
[21:00:29] <jepler> also the word is "lasso", not "lasoooooooooo"
[21:00:35] <alex_joni> cradek: no, it's for real
[21:00:56] <giacus> halo
[21:01:00] <alex_joni> hi giacus
[21:01:49] <SWPadnos> that's pretty cool, I think
[21:01:55] <giacus> back from greece ?
[21:02:42] <jepler> oh thank god
[21:02:52] <jepler> I was wondering about folding, mutulating, and spindling my documents
[21:03:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:03:10] <SWPadnos> virtual spindling
[21:03:22] <alex_joni> jepler: as you can see.. you can do that ;)
[21:03:34] <alex_joni> giacus: not yet.. tomorrow I'll fly home
[21:03:42] <alex_joni> giacus: IF I'm lucky enough..
[21:04:05] <alex_joni> it seems the greek people decided to have a strike tomorrow, and it's not quite sure if I'll be able to fly :/
[21:04:31] <jepler> wow .. every few years I think that they've certainly come to the worst possible (i.e., least like circa 1992 linux) user interface .. and I'm wrong each time
[21:04:50] <alex_joni> jepler: you need to try out vista
[21:04:54] <giacus> hehe nice
[21:05:01] <alex_joni> it's really screaming out loud for mercy
[21:05:02] <SWPadnos> with modern 3D acceleration hardware, the bounds for terrible user interfaces are expanded
[21:05:27] <SWPadnos> but I actually like that one. not that I see the desktop much on my machine
[21:05:28] <cradek> now I'm scared
[21:05:29] <alex_joni> giacus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ <- that's what we are laughing about
[21:05:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: like which one?
[21:05:54] <alex_joni> cradek: scared?
[21:06:14] <cradek> < SWPadnos> with modern 3D acceleration hardware, the bounds for terrible user interfaces are expanded
[21:06:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hello all
[21:06:24] <alex_joni> cradek: yup :/
[21:06:27] <alex_joni> hi LH
[21:06:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that UI seems cool, but I'm not sure of the practial use...
[21:06:52] <SWPadnos> right.
[21:07:03] <SWPadnos> it may allow me to be as cluttered electronically as I am physically
[21:07:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: what are the pins called for jogwheels?
[21:07:31] <SWPadnos> halcmd show pin | grep -i jog
[21:07:33] <cradek> motion.something.jogwheel.something
[21:07:51] <jepler> does everyone spend enough time organizing their "documents" that the effenciency of it is actually important? do creating metaphors that include real-world ideas like "accidentally(?) pushing documents off the side of my desk and having them thrown out that night by the janitorial staff" actually help reduce the time spent?
[21:08:01] <giacus> oh my god
[21:08:05] <giacus> alex_joni: :d
[21:08:13] <giacus> what's that ?
[21:08:18] <cradek> I have some "documents" behind my desk against the wall
[21:08:26] <jepler> oooooh .. I know
[21:09:04] <jepler> instead of having "stacks" they should have "virtual 133.35mm floppy disks", which can contain only a certain amount of data, and randomly don't work .. just like the real world.
[21:09:08] <cradek> hasn't anyone else realized that the 'desktop' parallel is tenuous at best?
[21:09:47] <cradek> jepler: can you crumple them up when they don't work?
[21:09:53] <cradek> I like to do that
[21:10:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> one thing that seems to limit is that the screen is only 2d, and regardless of how much 3d acceleration that you throw at it, it's still limited at 2d
[21:10:16] <alex_joni> jepler: I usually do it like this.. have lots of stuff on my desktop, then after a while I clean up (make a folder put it all in there), leave it for a couple of weeks, then delete the unused ones
[21:10:29] <jepler> also, a moisture sensor in the keyboard can relay a signal to the PC to randomly put a brown color on some of your documents
[21:11:00] <cradek> haha
[21:11:06] <alex_joni> jepler: not sure I want to know where you keep your documents :D
[21:11:12] <cradek> it's coffee
[21:11:14] <jepler> alex_joni: think coffee or cola
[21:11:22] <alex_joni> jepler: yah, I know.. just teasing
[21:11:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: I do the same, I have a folder called stuff that I throw (unexpectedly) stuff in, and if I don't use anything in it for a while I remove the contents
[21:11:34] <cradek> if you copy the documents too many times, they should become contrasty and hard to read
[21:11:36] <jepler> but thinking beyond the mere organization of papers
[21:11:43] <alex_joni> cradek: lol
[21:11:53] <rayh> clever idea, paper with brown smears
[21:12:08] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: actually I have a folder called "stuff" on my desktop right now
[21:12:20] <jepler> we can get brain electrodes which are hooked to our day planning software. for a particular upcoming task, they can create a sensation similar to a biological need (i.e., urination) according to flickr-like tags
[21:12:25] <alex_joni> yeah, and you probably would want the ones with the most brown stains
[21:12:29] <jepler> what is this "desktop" you speak of?
[21:12:38] <cradek> what's a "folder"?
[21:12:47] <alex_joni> oh.. buzz off ;)
[21:12:59] <alex_joni> not you ChanServ
[21:13:12] <cradek> ACK! SIGSEGV!
[21:13:36] <alex_joni> cradek: think 'mkdir'
[21:13:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> uhoh, that doesn't look good
[21:13:55] <anonimasu> hm
[21:14:06] <jepler> ooh it's way after 4PM
[21:14:11] <alex_joni> 20 mins
[21:14:15] <cradek> sure is
[21:14:21] <cradek> bye all
[21:14:26] <alex_joni> bye guys
[21:14:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bye
[21:14:37] <alex_joni> I'll head to bed too.. hopefully I'll get a flight tommorow
[21:14:42] <jepler> see you alex_joni !
[21:14:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> uhoh
[21:14:46] <cradek> good luck getting home
[21:14:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ;)
[21:14:54] <jepler> I hope you get to go home. have a safe trip
[21:14:58] <les_w> I quit at 3:30...but I was up doing autocad at 5:00 am.
[21:15:02] <alex_joni> yeah, thanks..
[21:15:06] <anonimasu> hello
[21:15:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ugh
[21:15:09] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[21:15:09] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[21:15:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi there
[21:15:15] <alex_joni> les_w: no reason to get up that early
[21:15:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hello ChanServ
[21:15:17] <les_w> hi anon
[21:15:24] <alex_joni> les_w: ;)
[21:15:39] <les_w> I just couldn't sleep alex
[21:15:47] <les_w> life is too exciting I guess
[21:17:41] <alex_joni> lol.. yeah
[21:24:25] <rayh> I was looking over recent wiki pages and found this
[21:24:31] <rayh> Are there several different EMCIOs ? (bridgeport, minimill, ?)
[21:25:01] <rayh> The page seems to be talking about emc2 but names the stuff signals
[21:25:11] <alex_joni> not really
[21:25:16] <alex_joni> only iocontrol
[21:25:23] <rayh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMCMOT_And_EMCIO_HAL_Interface
[21:26:03] <alex_joni> that's etla's work.. he needs some pointing in the right direction ;)
[21:26:16] <alex_joni> rayh: if you have the time/energy to set it straigh.. please do
[21:26:26] <rayh> k
[21:26:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed, unforch
[21:26:38] <rayh> sleep well.
[21:26:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> um, random question, is there a wiki page with all the standard pins in hal?
[21:27:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> like x.step or x.phase.a
[21:27:35] <rayh> I don't know of one. The HAL_Intro paper does most of this.
[21:27:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> where is that located?
[21:28:11] <alex_joni> www.linuxcnc.org -> DOcumentation
[21:28:25] <alex_joni> rayh: it's called HAL_Documentation.pdf now
[21:28:40] <alex_joni> because it's not really an Intro anymore ;)
[21:28:50] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/Hal_Documentation.pdf
[21:28:59] <alex_joni> g'night all
[21:30:07] <giacus> night alex_joni
[21:33:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> gnight
[21:46:47] <giacus> haha ValarQ
[21:47:04] <giacus> has quit: "user got confused and panicked"
[21:47:15] <giacus> :D
[21:50:38] <roltek> hey ray you here
[21:51:08] <rayh> yep
[21:51:32] <rayh> for a few more minutes then we go to breakfast.
[21:51:34] <roltek> what you doing , did you get my e-mail
[21:51:40] <giacus> hello rayh
[21:51:58] <rayh> Yes I did, thanks todd.
[21:52:03] <rayh> Hi giacus
[21:52:14] <giacus> back from the trip to china ?
[21:52:17] <roltek> did you get maxine squared away
[21:52:32] <rayh> Yes. We got it figured out okay.
[21:52:38] <roltek> good
[21:53:05] <rayh> No giacus I'm still in China. They call this a small town. Less than half a million.
[21:53:13] <giacus> wow
[21:53:17] <roltek> send me an e-mail on what your up to see you later have to leave
[21:53:26] <rayh> k
[21:53:37] <giacus> rayh: few millions are here :)
[21:54:34] <rayh> This has been an interesting trip.
[21:55:13] <giacus> nice
[21:55:28] <giacus> I'd like to visit that places
[21:55:35] <giacus> maybe some day ..
[21:56:18] <giacus> they have very clever engineers there I think
[21:56:22] <giacus> taiwan too
[22:01:50] <rayh> Indeed they are inventive and hard working.
[22:07:59] <giacus> yeah
[22:09:24] <dmessier> bon jour tous .. ; )
[22:10:48] <giacus> hi dmessier
[22:19:59] <dmessier> how goes it??
[22:20:19] <giacus> playng :)
[22:20:22] <dmessier> http://www.toshiba-machine.co.jp/english/product/machinery_e/lineup/mpf_5a/index.html
[22:20:57] <dmessier> one of the sweetest machines i ever had to train anyone on... ; )
[22:26:41] <giacus> not bad
[22:26:52] <giacus> :D
[22:28:28] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/files/lathe.avi
[22:28:55] <giacus> :D
[22:29:04] <giacus> that lathe looks familiar ..
[22:29:13] <giacus> :-)
[22:29:13] <dmessier> which??
[22:29:25] <dmessier> vertical??
[22:29:33] <giacus> nothing
[22:30:07] <dmessier> something.. its a lathe.. no??
[22:30:38] <dmessier> chk out the nx 76 orbit boring function..
[22:31:16] <giacus> something in the video I'm playng
[22:31:28] <giacus> looks familiar to cradek I think :)
[22:31:44] <giacus> dmessier: yeah, cool machine
[22:32:08] <giacus> but not for my budget :(
[22:32:46] <dmessier> none of ours i think.... but its so cool to be factory and get to play on them first... ;)
[22:33:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra wants
[22:33:11] <giacus> well, someone could ..
[22:33:29] <giacus> not me
[22:33:38] <giacus> for sure!
[22:33:41] <giacus> :))
[22:34:06] <dmessier> well if she has approx 5 million friends with 1 dollar each... she's in buisness
[22:35:29] <dmessier> that would be dooable with the Correct website you know....but where do we hide the machine... ;)
[22:35:31] <giacus> pratically a miracle
[22:36:31] <dmessier> ask a friend for a dollar to potentially realize a dream.... he WILL give you a buck.. ;)
[22:37:06] <giacus> what friends ?
[22:37:17] <giacus> can't see one here around
[22:37:34] <giacus> dmessier: you wake up ?
[22:37:36] <giacus> :D
[22:37:39] <dmessier> come now.. you gotta keep a circle a 6 good friends at least... ; )
[22:37:54] <giacus> uhm ..
[22:38:07] <dmessier> you'll need 'em
[22:38:22] <jepler> giacus: in "lathe.avi" I notice that the handwheels on the mill don't spin during the first part. I hope you'll fix that in a future version
[22:38:45] <giacus> jepler: really ?
[22:38:52] <giacus> haha
[22:38:56] <giacus> yeah
[22:39:20] <jepler> I think the metric sherline mill comes with a 1mm leadscrew
[22:39:25] <giacus> instead I notice its too much dark :(
[22:39:34] <jepler> let me know when that bug is fixed
[22:39:42] <giacus> at high resolution 800x600 looks cool
[22:39:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> giacus: for me there was only audio in the left channel
[22:39:51] <giacus> :(
[22:39:59] <giacus> Lerneaen_Hydra: right
[22:40:06] <giacus> one channel only
[22:40:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[22:40:16] <giacus> that's a test
[22:40:34] <giacus> getting small size files for now..
[22:40:50] <giacus> btw, too dark
[22:40:58] <giacus> at least in my lcd monitor
[22:41:46] <dmessier> HINt...NEVER machine copper as promo video.. unless you have RPM and PCD...
[22:42:11] <dmessier> gummy gooey sheite...
[22:43:28] <dmessier> it LOVES all your tooling... i used to hack 1 corner off a 2 flute slut drill and single pt it... to mill it ...
[22:43:43] <dmessier> slot sorry
[22:43:55] <jepler> "slut drill" is a funny phrase
[22:44:24] <SWPadnos> ndeed
[22:44:27] <SWPadnos> indeed
[22:44:28] <dmessier> i use them for "gowin' DOWN"
[22:44:48] <dmessier> plung milling style
[22:45:22] <dmessier> bcz you know they are going to depth... ; )
[22:45:37] <SWPadnos> peck cycles usually work well
[22:46:04] <dmessier> with a .400" step over.. yup...
[22:46:27] <SWPadnos> you need the looping code though
[22:46:29] <dmessier> g74... high speed peck
[22:46:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I'm not a high speed pecker
[22:47:00] <dmessier> incremental I to step over...
[22:47:53] <dmessier> tach her up and grow some kahones... its 10 miutes of sheer terror then its ruffed..
[22:50:04] <dmessier> but ppl DEMAND high material removal machines... OTHER ideologies say make go fast... I say make go SMART.. RIGHT
[22:51:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that almost reads like a bash.org quote.
[22:51:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra is tempted to send it to bash ;)
[22:52:04] <dmessier> You Will never beat a 200,000 lb machine fixtured in the floor with a stan alone plop on "your 6" of -20yr old concrete"
[22:52:56] <dmessier> and itc control.. could use EMC... Bash... pls no im on probation... i'll haveto do time... ; (
[22:53:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> dmessier: huh?
[22:53:49] <dmessier> just joshin'
[22:54:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[22:54:21] <dmessier> who want a dog??
[22:54:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I thought it sounded rahter.. stragne ;)
[22:54:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which state is it in?
[22:54:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alive? dead?
[22:54:39] <giacus> dmessier: a dog ! nohh
[22:54:53] <giacus> do you want 2-3 cats ?
[22:54:56] <dmessier> you can have lil un
[22:55:32] <dmessier> 2 now.. old one passed away..
[22:56:44] <dmessier> only the 2 girl cats and 2 gorl dogs remain.. pug and bunese mtg dog.. 16 months each ..(to date)
[22:57:52] <Jymmm> feed the cats to the dog
[22:59:13] <dmessier> cant i like them too.. thought about it though... that outside the box.. keep thinkin'
[22:59:53] <Jymmm> dmessier you might like them better with teriyaki sauce
[23:00:01] <Jymmm> and a lil garlic
[23:00:29] <dmessier> tha cats are trained to shit in the boys bed when thier box is full.. so he knows its time to change sheets and the litter box ...
[23:01:13] <Jymmm> Wait, you're a canook... how about Feline Poutine?
[23:01:16] <dmessier> very little input required..
[23:02:15] <dmessier> we thought we had the market on RABbIT poutine... but we APPErantly have a government
[23:02:44] <Jymmm> See, there ya go...
[23:02:51] <dmessier> and i blew a load there..
[23:03:48] <dmessier> so remember even if YOU dont screw the Rabbit runnin' the race.. HE WILL screewww you
[23:04:40] <dmessier> i was gonna be a $$$$$'aire.... have cars.. and women...
[23:05:38] <dmessier> now i drive a minivan with 3 kids a wife and 2 dogs who want to eat the 2 cats...
[23:07:14] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[23:08:26] <A-L-P-H-A> bad split.
[23:08:30] <A-L-P-H-A> dmessier
[23:08:34] <A-L-P-H-A> tag! you're it!
[23:10:46] <lilo> [Global Notice] Good evening all. We just experienced routing loss to one of our main rotation servers. It's been removed from rotation for now and we're looking at the problem. Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for using freenode!
[23:11:09] <dmessier> brb... sorry
[23:11:13] <A-L-P-H-A> sure
[23:11:14] <A-L-P-H-A> sure
[23:11:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> it seems to me that these problems happen relatively often
[23:11:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Lerneaen_Hydra... I don't usually notice them.
[23:16:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> g'night all
[23:17:38] <giacus> goodnight Lerneaen_Hydra_
[23:29:34] <dmessier> alpha call me..
[23:33:20] <dmessier> the boy locked and sealed in 3 of 5 toolboxes since he moved into the basement workshop/HIS new bed room
[23:35:32] <giacus> :)
[23:36:05] <dmessier> 2 are the expensive stuff so i was ok wtith that... ( height guage,,,, guage blocks,, super mike...all the old lookin' tools ) ... the boy might make it after all.. ; )
[23:36:31] <giacus> buy the lego
[23:37:02] <dmessier> 15 .. have ALL the leggo.. and Meccanno..
[23:37:02] <giacus> rayh wrote some nice chapter about that :)
[23:37:09] <giacus> nice
[23:37:52] <dmessier> the 13 yr old wants to program his RC car thru emc
[23:38:01] <giacus> hehe
[23:38:23] <dmessier> he's MY mini ME
[23:39:05] <dmessier> he IS what i was then... askin the right ??
[23:39:11] <giacus> :)
[23:39:23] <Jymmm> dmessier you mean a punk
[23:39:28] <Jymmm> =)
[23:39:37] <dmessier> brings a tear to a daddy's eye..
[23:39:40] <Jymmm> lol
[23:40:55] <dmessier> naw...he has been running MY set-ups for almost 7 yrs now... can measure the part before it comes off... nad say its good or not
[23:41:03] <giacus> dmessier: they already seen that ? http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/hidrofoam/video/840
[23:41:17] <giacus> you could machine the parts with the cnc
[23:41:56] <giacus> use small servomotors
[23:42:22] <giacus> it can fly ! :D
[23:42:30] <giacus> really
[23:42:43] <giacus> not as the youtube video.. I believe I can fly
[23:42:45] <giacus> hehe
[23:42:58] <dmessier> set up the machine.. and my 6 yr old grabed good parts... he was in HIS glory... NOTHIN' to somethine leaves somethin'
[23:47:19] <giacus> well, children are wonderful
[23:47:42] <giacus> I also wanted a son, but.. my ex wife thinked really different of me
[23:48:15] <giacus> when she leave me 5 years ago I stayed very bad , for 2 years ..
[23:48:27] <giacus> before back 'normal'
[23:48:37] <giacus> i'm not sure I back at all
[23:48:39] <giacus> hahah
[23:48:51] <giacus> ;)
[23:49:04] <dmessier> have children with her??
[23:49:11] <giacus> no
[23:49:20] <giacus> its a luck
[23:49:35] <dmessier> best pets i EVEER will own...
[23:50:19] <dmessier> i LOVE babies...dont talk bake... or run around outta sight...
[23:51:40] <giacus> :)
[23:51:52] <dmessier> i woulda "nott " traded my 2 boyz for his 18 month old deaf son..... but he was fun again... LOL
[23:52:21] <giacus> now I know what mean when a women start to say 'I see you as a friend ..'
[23:52:28] <giacus> as my brother
[23:52:34] <giacus> but I don't love you
[23:52:46] <giacus> there start the end
[23:53:18] <dmessier> its when they learn to walk and talk that you WANNA tell then to sit down and SHUT up
[23:53:18] <giacus> is it ok after few years
[23:53:25] <giacus> not after 12
[23:53:45] <giacus> that can change the life of a person
[23:53:53] <dmessier> si
[23:54:06] <giacus> same experience had anna ..
[23:54:16] <dmessier> ??
[23:54:49] <giacus> she get the same problem
[23:54:59] <giacus> but she have 2 son
[23:55:30] <dmessier> and no MALe authority figure???
[23:55:45] <giacus> yeah
[23:56:01] <giacus> she get around E. 600/month for 2 son
[23:56:14] <giacus> 300 for son
[23:56:27] <dmessier> My wife could take BOTH my sons.. my daughter... she might need help...
[23:56:31] <giacus> few for the cost of the life right now
[23:57:00] <dmessier> pennies...
[23:57:39] <giacus> they agreed so ..
[23:58:08] <Dallur> jmkasunic/cradek: Seems like that UI fix yesterday fixed the estop from external source to :D
[23:58:10] <dmessier> i married my wife bcz she was the 1 i was willing to have marital issues with...
[23:58:58] <Dallur> jmkasunic/cradek: Sourceforge is down but I will mark as fixed/closed as soon as I can connect
[23:59:39] <dmessier> and we'll got over it... we have been together 20 yrs..