#emc | Logs for 2006-05-30

[00:13:59] <giacus> hello
[00:17:01] <SkunkWorks> HI
[00:17:18] <SkunkWorks> pretty late there isn't it.
[00:19:10] <giacus> yeah.. was a fest :)
[00:19:18] <SkunkWorks> fun
[00:25:45] <jmkasunich> cradek, you around?
[00:26:24] <cradek> yep
[00:26:39] <cradek> board's done (milled and populated)
[00:26:50] <jmkasunich> I found out (by accident) that if I click on ratsnest it does the flood
[00:26:56] <jmkasunich> how do I undo the flood
[00:27:27] <cradek> the flood is a polygon named GND
[00:27:33] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:27:34] <giacus> * giacus was looking to the cradeck board right now
[00:27:35] <cradek> you can unflood it by using "ripup" and then clicking on it
[00:27:42] <cradek> click at the edge of the flood
[00:27:46] <jmkasunich> ok, that makes sense, thanks
[00:27:46] <giacus> cradek: is it L298 on that board ?
[00:27:51] <cradek> giacus: yes
[00:28:16] <jmkasunich> my new goal is 2.825" (72mm) x 4"
[00:28:34] <jmkasunich> that will fit in one of those nice green plastic DIN rail mount things I have
[00:29:10] <cradek> cool
[00:29:23] <giacus> neat design , just few bridge
[00:29:51] <giacus> short too, it seems :)
[00:29:53] <giacus> nice
[00:30:19] <jmkasunich> the big white rectangle is the board outline?
[00:30:47] <cradek> yes
[00:30:53] <cradek> it's 1/16th thick to match my end mill
[00:31:05] <cradek> so the remaining board will be what's fully inside the lines
[00:31:15] <jmkasunich> so I should place it so the inner edge defines my board
[00:31:27] <cradek> yes
[00:31:36] <cradek> if I'm cutting it (don't know how board houses work)
[00:32:12] <cradek> I think I'll work on the firmware later - I'm about done for the night
[00:32:31] <cradek> but the board is done so I have my inertia back!
[00:32:34] <cradek> thanks again for your help
[00:32:50] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[00:33:05] <jmkasunich> I'm having fun too.... and learning eagle, which will be handy in the future
[00:36:38] <giacus> I like the tradictional way with acid, but we would to directly print with a laser on pcb
[00:37:17] <giacus> maybe.. the next printers generation
[00:39:15] <cradek> jmkasunich: I don't know if they still have it, but I got a $99 eagle hobbyist license
[00:39:47] <SkunkWorks> Eagle - for the free version - it is very powerful
[00:39:49] <cradek> lets me do a full 4x6 board (which is pretty much the limit of my mill anyway)
[00:39:55] <SkunkWorks> I want to look at paying for it.
[00:40:22] <cradek> it seems good for the price
[00:40:34] <SkunkWorks> yes - it does.
[00:40:34] <cradek> and I always like supporting companies who make linux software
[00:41:12] <giacus> especially Free
[00:41:14] <giacus> hehe
[00:41:18] <giacus> kidding
[00:41:23] <cradek> wow I went from a design in eagle to a fully populated board in under two hours
[00:41:40] <giacus> I also tried to support Borland time ago ..
[00:41:41] <jmkasunich> can't beat that with a stick
[00:41:58] <jmkasunich> still have to write the firmware tho, right?
[00:42:01] <cradek> right
[00:42:14] <giacus> but kylix seem failed
[00:42:21] <cradek> I'll have to study my notes (and encoder.c) some more
[00:42:27] <jmkasunich> is there any trick for selecting a component instead of a nearby trace
[00:42:51] <jmkasunich> I wanted to move a part, and it stubbornly refused to select the part, it wanted to move the traces
[00:42:57] <jmkasunich> until I turned off the trace layer
[00:42:59] <jmkasunich> seems a pain
[00:43:05] <cradek> rightclick to cycle through the things under the cursor
[00:43:07] <SkunkWorks> read the bottom of the screen - it asks you what you want to select - you can cycle through the near parts
[00:44:06] <jmkasunich> I must not have my moust set up right
[00:44:12] <jmkasunich> mouse even
[00:44:18] <jmkasunich> left click always selects the trace
[00:44:24] <jmkasunich> right click just beeps at me
[00:44:31] <cradek> then you're not near the part's origin
[00:44:36] <cradek> look for the white cross
[00:45:03] <jmkasunich> duh
[00:45:16] <cradek> not duh, it's not real obvious
[00:45:25] <giacus> jmkasunich: your're not a good GUI user :P
[00:45:33] <jmkasunich> the cross was nearly invisible under other stuff, and my brain is used to tools where you clock on any part of the part
[00:45:46] <cradek> yeah
[00:45:56] <jmkasunich> thanks
[00:46:00] <cradek> eagle is a bit idiosyncratic
[00:46:03] <jmkasunich> I'm starting to get the hang of it
[00:46:28] <cradek> they have a good tutorial but it might be just in the printed book
[00:46:33] <giacus> it should work a bit as gimp for what I remember, with layers
[00:46:37] <giacus> not ?
[00:46:43] <cradek> bbl
[00:46:44] <jmkasunich> the symbols for those screw connectors are very small, I assume the actual part is bigger?
[00:47:32] <cradek> they're about .1" square per wire, the wire sticks out one side
[00:48:08] <cradek> the eagle part I used is just "pinhead" - pin header
[00:48:31] <cradek> the programming connector is actually a pin header
[00:48:33] <jmkasunich> thats what it looked like, I wanted to make sure I didn't put it too close to another part
[00:48:45] <cradek> yeah leave room on one side for the wires
[00:49:11] <cradek> and leave some around the programming connector too, since a plug has to fit over it
[00:49:46] <cradek> I noticed I forgot that one encoder will have 5 wires not 4
[00:49:54] <jmkasunich> how do you tell it to draw diagonal instead of orthogonal wires
[00:49:57] <jmkasunich> oops
[00:50:07] <cradek> rightclick while drawing the wire to cycle through lots of options
[00:50:11] <SkunkWorks> index?
[00:50:12] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:50:23] <jmkasunich> so, what do we do about index...
[00:50:26] <cradek> also I wonder if the index pulse will have to be stretched or something
[00:50:30] <jmkasunich> exactly
[00:50:41] <jmkasunich> send it into the uC I guess
[00:50:48] <cradek> the micro will have to deal with it
[00:51:13] <jmkasunich> what is a spare input pin?
[00:51:14] <cradek> I think dividing the spindle encoder is phase II of this project
[00:51:29] <cradek> I just want to get motion first
[00:51:33] <jmkasunich> ok
[00:51:42] <jmkasunich> I want to make provisions for it on my layout tho
[00:51:45] <cradek> right
[00:51:53] <jmkasunich> port C looks full
[00:51:57] <cradek> just pick some free uc pins
[00:52:05] <jmkasunich> C6 is reset I guess, I don't see a C7
[00:52:32] <jmkasunich> oh, C is the outputs anyway
[00:52:42] <jmkasunich> port D is the inputs, I can use D6 for the spindle index
[00:52:44] <cradek> ports can be mixed in/out
[00:52:49] <cradek> doesn't matter
[00:52:50] <fenn> SkunkWorks: you're using irfz44 too?
[00:53:04] <fenn> SkunkWorks: or are you remembering the chip i'm using on accident?
[00:53:08] <cradek> gotta run
[00:53:14] <jmkasunich> hmm, does the parport have enough input pins for all three encoders?
[00:53:21] <jmkasunich> ok, later
[00:53:51] <jmkasunich> seems like we need to run the port in input mode
[00:54:19] <jmkasunich> we need 7 inputs, ZA, ZB, XA, XB, SA, SB, SI
[00:54:34] <jmkasunich> and 4 outputs, Z1, Z2, X1, X2
[00:54:54] <jmkasunich> duh, I see you were doing that anyway
[00:56:06] <SkunkWorks> fenn: nope - I have had the irfz44 from before you where born. :) no - maybe 10 years.
[00:56:36] <fenn> neat - well, digikey is phasing them out, so they're on sale for $0.37
[00:56:42] <SkunkWorks> nice
[00:56:56] <fenn> it says 0 in stock but they have 40000
[00:57:15] <SkunkWorks> that was probably why I bought them before - they where cheap - pretty powerfull mosfets
[01:12:08] <giacus> could the IGBT replace the mosfet in some case ?
[01:12:30] <jmkasunich> IGBTs are used mostly for high voltages, above 500V
[01:12:40] <jmkasunich> below 500V MOSFETs are far superior
[01:13:14] <jmkasunich> IGBTs are also mostly used for high power, kilowatts to megawatts
[01:13:28] <giacus> I know they're used often in sound amplifiers
[01:13:38] <jmkasunich> they are?
[01:14:07] <giacus> I seen some diagram time ago, yeah
[01:14:11] <jmkasunich> that would surprise me very much, IGBTs are almost never used as linear devices, always as switching
[01:14:13] <giacus> very powerful amplifier
[01:16:24] <giacus> also for car amplifier: 100+100 Watt RMS
[01:16:33] <giacus> looking at some kit
[01:17:41] <SkunkWorks> some higher power audio amps are switching.
[01:17:49] <SkunkWorks> pwm
[01:17:57] <SkunkWorks> to generate the audio
[01:18:09] <jmkasunich> true, but usually very high frequency, 40KHz or more
[01:18:13] <jmkasunich> and not so high voltage
[01:18:28] <jmkasunich> not something an IGBT would be good for
[01:18:39] <jmkasunich> low voltage high speed MOSFETs are better
[01:18:52] <jmkasunich> high voltage, low speed, IGBTs are better
[01:19:22] <SkunkWorks> interesting
[01:21:02] <jmkasunich> I may not be entirely up to date on the state of the art in small IGBTs
[01:21:29] <jmkasunich> I mostly know about the big ones, 600, 1200, 1700V, and from a few 10s of amps to a thousand or so
[01:21:38] <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/essentialaudio/unetto_home.htm
[01:25:06] <jmkasunich> sure enough, they're using IGBTs
[01:25:10] <jmkasunich> in a linear circuit
[01:25:17] <jmkasunich> and both N channel and P channel devixes
[01:25:30] <jmkasunich> I didn't know anybody even made P channel IGBTs
[01:25:56] <jmkasunich> but they are using 250V parts on a 50V supply....
[01:26:06] <giacus> yeah
[01:26:11] <jmkasunich> I bet the same circuit could be built with MOSFETs and work better
[01:26:31] <giacus> btw, I used Mosfet Hitachi 2SK1058-2SJ162 years ago for the mine
[01:26:39] <A-L-P-H-A> where's swpadnos?
[01:26:42] <A-L-P-H-A> dang it...
[01:26:47] <A-L-P-H-A> does he still lurk in here?
[01:27:05] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[01:27:05] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[01:27:08] <jmkasunich> might be traveling for work
[01:27:26] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, oh.
[01:27:36] <giacus> seen 9 days ago ..
[01:27:50] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone with experience with the G100, or G101 from geckodrive?
[01:27:53] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc_month.html
[01:28:18] <SkunkWorks> I am getting a little worried - he hasn't been on since the workshop.
[01:28:51] <jmkasunich> he hasn't?
[01:28:53] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, what time zone is that?
[01:29:00] <giacus> UTC
[01:29:20] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
[01:29:53] <giacus> I can't see him on lates week
[01:31:39] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm's got the potty mouth award. heh
[01:31:44] <giacus> jmkasunich: I also used 75 V supply for my mosfet amplifier ..
[01:31:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh... irc stats... the fun shituff.
[01:32:04] <giacus> 220V -> 75 V out
[01:32:17] <A-L-P-H-A> transformers are fun.
[01:32:28] <A-L-P-H-A> especially the ones that buzz.
[01:32:48] <giacus> the mine is class a-b
[01:32:56] <giacus> I'd like a class A
[01:33:03] <giacus> but was expensive
[01:33:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I wouldn't mind a torroid one... but then again, why? i already have a power supply unit built.
[01:35:34] <jmkasunich> SWP hasn't been on emc-devel either
[01:35:48] <jmkasunich> hope everything is all right
[01:51:44] <A-L-P-H-A> i second that thought
[01:57:15] <SkunkWorks> jmkasunich: have 2 seconds?
[01:57:26] <SkunkWorks> ok 30 seconds?
[01:57:57] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[01:58:01] <A-L-P-H-A> 30 seconds are up
[01:58:30] <jmkasunich> huh?
[01:59:24] <jmkasunich> I have several seconds
[01:59:39] <SkunkWorks> Ok - I will ask away. Why if the mosfet is a voltage device do you put a low resistance in series with the gate? (unless I am totaly confused)
[02:00:20] <jmkasunich> it is a voltage controlled device, with non-trivial gate/source and gate/drain capacitances
[02:00:46] <jmkasunich> when switching, gate _current_ determines how fast those C's charge and discharge and thus how fast it switches
[02:01:18] <SkunkWorks> ok that makes some sense.
[02:01:45] <jmkasunich> on the large IGBTs I work with, gate current reaches 10 amps or more (but only short pulses during switching)
[02:02:07] <jmkasunich> even a simple 10A mosfet might have gate currents of a couple hundred mA if you want to switch it fast
[02:02:30] <jmkasunich> those currents only last a few 10's to 100's of nanoseconds though
[02:02:33] <SkunkWorks> wow.
[02:03:02] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: What the hell shit joos talk'n bout bitch?!?!?! =)
[02:03:15] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[02:03:24] <jmkasunich> usually somewhere on the datasheet you can find a spec called "gate charge"
[02:03:34] <jmkasunich> in nano-coulombs or whatever
[02:03:46] <jmkasunich> pico maybe for the little ones, micro for the big-uns
[02:04:02] <SkunkWorks> ok - so the resister is mainly to protect whatever is driving the mosfet.
[02:04:20] <SkunkWorks> for the most part
[02:04:25] <jmkasunich> gate charge divided by gate current is approximately the switching time
[02:04:30] <Jymmm> Okey! New microwave: check, Fixed the sprinklers: check!
[02:04:43] <jmkasunich> the gate resistor is used to control how fast it switches
[02:04:51] <jmkasunich> too slow, lots of switching loss (heat)
[02:05:24] <jmkasunich> too fast, voltage spikes and other nastiness from L*dI/dT, or C * dV/dT
[02:07:11] <A-L-P-H-A> damn dentist... anyone elses teeth feel very sensitive after going to the dentist?
[02:07:26] <Jymmm> after a cleaning, yes
[02:07:40] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[02:07:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I hope this feeling goes away soon.
[02:07:55] <A-L-P-H-A> no cavaties at least.
[02:08:04] <A-L-P-H-A> just a chipped tooth... :( got it sanded down smooth again.
[02:08:42] <Jymmm> tequilia or mouthwash
[02:08:53] <giacus> night
[02:09:09] <A-L-P-H-A> IRC for Emacs??
[02:09:11] <A-L-P-H-A> hardcore
[02:09:47] <Jymmm> that's our giacus
[02:27:25] <SkunkWorks> sorry was away - thanks.
[02:29:01] <SkunkWorks> jmkasunich: gives me an idea whats going on when I do some more reasearch
[02:56:09] <A-L-P-H-A> don't play it. :) http://websudoku.com/
[06:51:00] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[06:51:22] <Jymmm> alex_joni I want to talk to you tomorrow, I'm outta here for tonight
[07:21:03] <alex_joni> ok..
[10:44:37] <giacus> morning
[11:05:27] <ValarQ> g'day giacus
[11:06:05] <giacus> hi ValarQ
[11:09:08] <ValarQ> jepler: ayt?
[12:32:19] <les_w> morning
[12:42:27] <SkunkWorks> morning les
[13:01:26] <alex_joni> mornig all
[13:02:16] <SkunkWorks> Hi alex. How is it going today?
[13:02:23] <alex_joni> moving slow
[13:04:31] <SkunkWorks> might be able to see if I can blow up the ir***2 today :)
[13:04:50] <alex_joni> lol
[13:04:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders..
[13:05:06] <alex_joni> did I .. ever tell you?
[13:05:49] <SkunkWorks> The board is soldered and the 15volt regulator works - have not plugged any of the ic's in yet.
[13:06:21] <alex_joni> I wish you best of luck ;)
[13:06:34] <SkunkWorks> oh - I need it for sure :)
[13:06:45] <alex_joni> indeed
[13:16:31] <Bo^Dick> do you guys know about the MPASM assembly language?
[13:21:32] <Bo^Dick> uhm, i've found out what was wrong, "movf IX,WREG" is not the same as "movlw IX"
[14:39:40] <alex_joni> I had no idea google search for 'emc enhanced machine controller' produces 403000 results ;)
[14:40:39] <les_w> what???
[14:40:44] <les_w> let me try that
[14:40:54] <alex_joni> you're allowed
[14:43:08] <les_w> oh emc commonly used as "electromagnetic compatibility" might be why
[14:43:20] <les_w> if default google ors the terms
[14:43:46] <alex_joni> still 20000 hits for "enhanced machine controller"
[14:43:55] <SkunkWorks> 19,200 if the enhanced machine contoller is in quotes
[14:43:58] <alex_joni> the "" make it display only exact results
[14:44:08] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: 19.900 here ?
[14:44:24] <les_w> yeah, machine tools have to go through "EMC certification"
[14:44:31] <SkunkWorks> emc "enhanced machine controller"
[14:44:44] <les_w> but still lots of our type of emc hits
[14:49:15] <les_w> I have been googling all morning
[14:49:43] <les_w> still looking for UVC transmissibility of fatty acids
[14:49:48] <les_w> I give up
[14:50:12] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: only "enhanced machine controller"
[14:50:32] <les_w> ok, so we will have to measure it. On to silicon carbide photodiodes and fused quartz windows...
[14:52:47] <SkunkWorks> alex_joni: ah 20,300 "enhanced machine controller"
[14:53:22] <SkunkWorks> is your goverment filtering ;)
[14:53:41] <alex_joni> don't think so.. using google.com
[14:53:43] <alex_joni> not .ro
[15:06:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hi
[15:08:36] <cradek> morning all
[15:14:09] <SkunkWorks> morning
[15:30:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra> any idea when the new set-current-point-as-a-value-for-an-axis feature will be released for axis?
[15:31:11] <cradek> probably soon, but you can get it from cvs now if you want it
[15:31:23] <cradek> or the axis daily snapshot
[15:31:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok, stability?
[15:31:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra> beta-ish?
[15:32:44] <cradek> seems to work fine, try it and let us know
[15:34:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[15:34:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any easy way to get the cvs files on a windows machine, copy to a disc, and then install from that disc on the EMC machine?
[15:35:22] <cradek> you can get tarfile snapshots from webcvs
[15:38:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> a program?
[15:38:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, maybe it's easiest to pull a network cable to it..
[15:38:42] <cradek> no I mean you can get tarfiles from cvs with your web browser
[15:39:30] <cradek> but running network cable is never time wasted!
[15:40:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, I moved the computer instead
[15:40:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there, now I jsut have to connect it and stuff. Which adress is the AXIS cvs at?
[15:40:55] <cradek> axis.unpy.net
[15:42:53] <jepler> to download a snapshot: http://axis.unpy.net/downloads/nightly CVSROOT for anonymous users: :pserver:anonymous@axis.unpythonic.net:2401/cvsroot
[15:43:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anything else worth updating while I'm at it? shoudl I stay with EMC released or is testing good?
[15:43:31] <cradek> to get the 'counter' module you will have to run cvs Hhead
[15:43:35] <cradek> head even
[15:44:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> counter?
[15:45:04] <jepler> you can download a tarball of emc2 HEAD from the cvsweb server: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/ and click "download this directory in tarball"
[15:45:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> are the tarballs precompiled or is it sourcecode? and how does one install them?
[15:46:03] <cradek> counter is the module that counts pulses like from an encoder but does not require quadrature
[15:46:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[15:46:32] <cradek> I wrote it for your lathe when we talked about it a while back
[15:46:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I haven't added that hardware yet
[15:46:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so I'm hoping that it will be in released before I do that
[15:47:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> did no-one else need that code?
[15:48:42] <cradek> few people are experimenting with the lathe code; those that are have real encoders
[15:49:14] <cradek> 'counter' will definitely be in the 2.1 release
[15:49:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is that months away or is it relatively soon?
[15:50:03] <SkunkWorks> how is the 2.1 going? Good work by the way.
[15:50:22] <cradek> 2.0.1 will be soon (next couple days)
[15:50:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, another question, when installing stuff from CVS, do they get installed to another dir than apt-based installs?
[15:50:34] <cradek> we haven't talked about 2.1 much yet.
[15:50:48] <SkunkWorks> sorry - I ment 2.0.1.
[15:51:01] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes, you should compile for run-in-place which means it will run from wherever you put it
[15:51:07] <SkunkWorks> * SkunkWorks gets confused with version numbering
[15:51:40] <cradek> I want to get the bugfixes from Workshop released asap
[15:51:44] <SkunkWorks> found one mistake on my board - swapped ground and input on one of the ir2111
[15:51:48] <SkunkWorks> oops
[15:51:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how do I decide which version of axis will load, IIRC in the .ini I just write axis and it loads, so if I have the APT and the CVS "versions" which will load?
[15:52:23] <cradek> for run-in-place you put the axis source under the emc2/src directory, then it will use that one
[15:52:43] <cradek> so you'll have emc2/src/axis/...
[15:52:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> currently I only have release (apt) installed EMC and AXIS
[15:52:55] <cradek> when you run configure in emc2/src, it'll find that axis source and use it
[15:53:48] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: maybe you should wait for the release if you don't care about threading (counter module) yet...?
[15:54:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> threading I'll worry about later
[15:54:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> currently I only want the new axis features
[15:54:25] <cradek> maybe you should wait because I will package a new axis to go with 2.0.1
[15:54:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I have enough 2-axis stuff to machine for some time
[15:54:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[15:55:13] <cradek> I had it in my head that you wanted counter, sorry for the bad advice
[15:57:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, no damage done
[15:59:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> for the time being though, which method do you use when configuring the raw material?
[15:59:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> something other than g92?
[16:00:07] <cradek> at the show I used home switches and set it so home position put the tool at the center of rotation so x=r
[16:01:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[16:01:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what about Z=
[16:01:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the offset button in axis?
[16:02:30] <cradek> I also had a home switch on Z that made 0 as near the chuck as comfortable
[16:02:47] <cradek> but yes I used the offset button sometimes
[16:03:14] <cradek> just like using g92 x... you can use g10 l2 p1 x...
[16:03:47] <cradek> but I would like to know more about the problem you had with g92 if you can reproduce it
[16:04:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, you set Z=0 at the chuck? Everone I know sets Z=0 at the edge of the raw material (minus the face turn)
[16:04:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I can try playing around with it
[16:04:39] <cradek> I'm talking about machine 0, not offset 0
[16:04:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[16:05:05] <cradek> to set 0 at the bar end is trivial - jog up to it, hit the offset button
[16:05:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> exactly
[16:06:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but, if you have a stepper based system, why even have a machine 0?
[16:06:15] <cradek> so limits work
[16:06:38] <cradek> it's useful to know if your program will run into the chuck, no?
[16:07:03] <cradek> I don't understand why people don't want to use soft limits
[16:07:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, softlimits
[16:07:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[16:07:33] <cradek> maybe I should write a tutorial about that
[16:07:38] <cradek> I bet people just don't know how it works
[16:07:53] <cradek> you don't need switches or anything.
[16:07:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I just look at the maximum value I should go to in Z, measure the part's length, and then take it slowly the first pass of the roughing cycle
[16:08:39] <cradek> I really like it that emc tells me that I've typed a mdi command wrong, or my program has a wrong number in it, instead of it running the tool into something
[16:09:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes more safety checks is always good
[16:09:18] <cradek> on the mill I home Z=0 with the tool slightly above the table, then my min limit is 0, so I can't drill the table no matter what stupid thing I do
[16:09:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I use cam though, so the risk of a wrong number is lessened, and when I see the toolpath in axis I check there too
[16:09:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> slightly, is that 1mm or so?
[16:10:16] <cradek> just yesterday I loaded my pcb program and forgot to touch off Z before running - axis told me it would exceed -Z limits
[16:10:26] <cradek> yes something like 1mm probably
[16:10:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's neat
[16:10:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I should probably set that up
[16:11:00] <cradek> yes it would have ruined a pcb tool and possibly drilled the table
[16:11:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> prefferably with homing switches so I can see if I loose steps
[16:11:47] <cradek> yes switches are nice. but if you don't have that, mark a convenient spot along each axis with a sharpie, and call it home
[16:12:21] <cradek> then just jog to it and hit home, now you have soft limits protecting you
[16:13:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, I've got some older military grade microswitches that are far more accurate than my smallest step (1/72th mm, app. 0.012mm)
[16:13:55] <cradek> that would be nice - I bet mine are nothing like that
[16:14:02] <cradek> I have some I'm going to put on my mill one of these days
[16:14:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[16:14:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any way to perform a homing operation, semi-automated?
[16:14:46] <cradek> if your switches are separately wired, you can hit x home y home z home and let it go
[16:14:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> like, press a button or execute an mdi command and it homes to the switches and then compares where it should be with where it is
[16:15:09] <cradek> if they are wired together of course you have to do one at a time
[16:15:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, yes of course
[16:15:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I've got plenty of IO left
[16:15:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'll bbl, dinnertime now
[16:15:49] <cradek> bye
[16:15:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> bye
[16:25:59] <alex_joni> hello
[16:26:09] <cradek> hi
[16:26:17] <alex_joni> what's up?
[16:26:37] <cradek> almost lunchtime
[16:26:43] <jepler> huuuuungry
[16:26:54] <alex_joni> heh.. have some steak .. rofl
[16:27:05] <alex_joni> kidding.. but that's what I had today ;)
[16:27:15] <alex_joni> we had a nice bbq yesterday at work
[16:27:30] <alex_joni> finally got around to celebrate my bday
[16:27:31] <cradek> do you like work events like that?
[16:28:13] <alex_joni> sure, why not?
[16:28:57] <alex_joni> it's fun to leave work aside once in a while
[16:28:58] <Jymmm> One company I worked at was so cheap, they would celebrate ppl's bdays once each month.
[16:29:17] <alex_joni> we only do it on mondays ;)
[16:29:34] <Jymmm> Good way to have a monday at least
[16:29:40] <alex_joni> and usually after 3PM
[16:29:50] <Jymmm> boo.... 1pm
[16:30:06] <Jymmm> let me guess quitting time is 2:59 ?
[16:30:10] <alex_joni> it's all about hanging together & eating & having a drink
[16:30:15] <alex_joni> no, usually 4-5
[16:30:19] <Jymmm> oh, ok
[16:30:30] <alex_joni> but these things usually last till 8-9
[16:30:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni oh, it was you that did the string washer three steppers wasn't it?
[16:30:38] <alex_joni> so people do enjoy themselves ;)
[16:30:42] <alex_joni> yup
[16:31:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni could that be done with two steppers easily enough (like the spray can video) ?
[16:31:14] <alex_joni> sure
[16:31:20] <alex_joni> even simpler
[16:31:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni and what about the gcode?
[16:31:35] <alex_joni> you'd still be using XY
[16:31:41] <Jymmm> (since I dont write my own)
[16:31:43] <alex_joni> the kins take care of the rest
[16:32:01] <alex_joni> so basicly you can take any 2-axes g-code and use that
[16:32:12] <Jymmm> like a plotter
[16:32:39] <alex_joni> yeap
[16:32:40] <Jymmm> ?
[16:32:56] <Jymmm> so, is this something that would have do be done in c++ ?
[16:33:55] <alex_joni> no, just a few lines of c
[16:34:06] <alex_joni> doing it now.. hang on, wanna see how complicated it is
[16:34:12] <Jymmm> sure
[16:34:55] <Jymmm> !!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!
[16:34:55] <Jymmm> !!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!
[16:34:56] <Jymmm> !!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!
[16:35:50] <alex_joni> ?
[16:36:02] <Jymmm> <alex_joni> finally got around to celebrate my bday
[16:36:18] <alex_joni> oh.. that was almost 2 weeks ago.. but thanks
[16:36:25] <Jymmm> =)
[16:39:25] <Jymmm> http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6077695.html
[16:41:19] <alex_joni> does anyone mind me pasting a few lines?
[16:41:38] <Jymmm> if giacus can post ascii art, I dont see why not
[16:42:01] <alex_joni> # definitions
[16:42:01] <alex_joni> # A(0,0) B(Bx,0) - fixing points (motors)
[16:42:03] <alex_joni> # D(Dx,Dy) - moving point (spraycan)
[16:42:03] <alex_joni> # joint[0]=AD; joint[1]=BD
[16:42:03] <alex_joni> kinematicsInverse()
[16:42:05] <alex_joni> AD=SQRT(x^2 + y^2)
[16:42:08] <alex_joni> BD=SQRT((x-Bx)^2 + y^2)
[16:42:10] <alex_joni> kinematicsForward()
[16:42:13] <alex_joni> AD^2=x^2+y^2 (1)
[16:42:15] <alex_joni> BD^2=(x-Bx)^2+y^2(2)
[16:42:18] <alex_joni> AD^2-BD^2=x^2+y^2-x^2+2*x*Bx-Bx^2-y^2 (substract 2 from 1)
[16:42:20] <alex_joni> ->x=(AD^2-BD^2+Bx^2)/2*Bx
[16:42:23] <alex_joni> Y=SQRT(AD^2-X^2)
[16:42:28] <alex_joni> hmm.. does it look ok over there?
[16:42:34] <Jymmm> yeah
[16:42:42] <alex_joni> ok, so we have 3 points
[16:43:01] <Jymmm> motors and the cna
[16:43:03] <Jymmm> can
[16:43:03] <alex_joni> A,B & C (A & B are the fixing points on the wall, C is the spraycan)
[16:43:07] <alex_joni> right
[16:43:09] <Jymmm> right
[16:43:12] <Jymmm> heh
[16:43:16] <alex_joni> A=0,0 B=Bx,0
[16:43:24] <alex_joni> Bx is a constant
[16:43:29] <alex_joni> depending on your setup
[16:43:54] <alex_joni> distance from those 2 points to the can is AD & BD
[16:44:04] <alex_joni> make that D not C above a few lines ;)
[16:44:11] <Jymmm> =)
[16:44:23] <alex_joni> the joints are actually the lengths AD & BD
[16:44:35] <Jymmm> pause
[16:44:38] <alex_joni> because if you move a motor that length will increase/decrease
[16:44:55] <alex_joni> imagine you move only one motor
[16:45:02] <alex_joni> say the motor in A
[16:45:10] <Jymmm> ok AD is the distance between the MotorA and the can, and BD is the distance between MotorB and the can?
[16:45:15] <alex_joni> right
[16:45:20] <Jymmm> unpause
[16:45:43] <Jymmm> pause
[16:45:51] <alex_joni> so if you move motor A, the distance AD will increase/decrease and BD will stay constant
[16:45:58] <Jymmm> pause damnit pause
[16:46:00] <Jymmm> =)
[16:46:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pauses
[16:46:40] <Jymmm> ok so what you are doing is taking the distance AD, then using the joint (ad?) and trianglulating the angle?
[16:46:49] <alex_joni> no
[16:46:53] <Jymmm> unpause
[16:46:56] <alex_joni> I only use strut lengths
[16:46:59] <alex_joni> AD & BD
[16:47:06] <alex_joni> and the carthesian position of D
[16:47:22] <alex_joni> and a simple triangle
[16:47:32] <alex_joni> but not calculating the angle.. simply using pytagoras
[16:48:02] <Jymmm> I'm stupid, I dont know trig, but I'm "getting it" =)
[16:48:16] <alex_joni> imagine a triangle between point A, D and the intersection of the AB line
[16:48:53] <alex_joni> if A is 0,0 as I said, then the position of D is x,y
[16:48:58] <Jymmm> right, so you are just using triangles to position the can
[16:49:11] <alex_joni> and the triangle will have one side AB, and the other ones x and y
[16:49:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs a drawing board ;)
[16:49:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> um, (pokes in) I don't know how this entire rig is set up, is it similar to your 3-motor trianglular move-a-washer arangement?
[16:49:44] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: vertical, 2 motors on the wall, the spraycan is hanging down
[16:49:54] <Jymmm> alex_joni I dont have the url for the video, do you?
[16:50:01] <alex_joni> not really..
[16:50:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra> spraycan?
[16:50:08] <Jymmm> let me look
[16:50:20] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: painting on a wall ;)
[16:50:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[16:50:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there are many ways that you can set that up...
[16:50:37] <Jymmm> http://www.hektor.ch/
[16:50:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ok, go on
[16:51:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, that shouldn't be that hard, some basic 90* triangular trig
[16:51:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> explaining it over IRC though, an entirely different matter ;)
[16:53:17] <Jymmm> alex_joni: So, the distance between the motors has to be input. What is this constant (Bx) you speak of?
[16:54:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the distance between the motors/pulleys?
[16:54:50] <alex_joni> the distance between the motors
[16:55:08] <alex_joni> hang on.. painting something ;)
[16:55:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> macromedia flash is actually quite good for painting things like this
[16:55:50] <Jymmm> alex_joni Ah, ok. Does that have to be accurate, or is there a way to "fine tune" that somehow. (assuming the motors are temp nailed to the wall - as example)
[16:56:10] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/bipod.png
[16:56:30] <alex_joni> you kinda need to have a good measurement for the kins to work
[16:57:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Well, you know like on PDA's you have to click on the four points then center to "calibrate" the pad? I was thinking something like that
[16:57:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra> alex_joni: what happened to point C? ;)
[16:57:34] <alex_joni> hmm.. it might be doable.. but requires some reorganisation
[16:57:37] <alex_joni> C is gone ;)
[16:57:42] <alex_joni> C was used for the tripod :D
[16:57:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> in this scenario or somethign else?
[16:58:11] <alex_joni> in the same kins.. I just reread my older notes on it
[16:58:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, o
[16:58:46] <alex_joni> k
[16:59:13] <alex_joni> Jymmm: seen the picture=
[16:59:14] <alex_joni> ?
[16:59:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni: yeah, studying it now.
[16:59:41] <alex_joni> say if you need further explanations..
[17:00:07] <alex_joni> the main idea is this: it's easy to know AD & BD
[17:00:18] <alex_joni> because you only move one motor to change one of those
[17:00:41] <alex_joni> but you want to program with simple G-code using XY (chartesian) coordinates
[17:00:53] <alex_joni> so we need a way to transform from AD & BD to Dx & Dy
[17:00:55] <Jymmm> right, no need for a new standard.
[17:01:00] <alex_joni> and the other way around
[17:01:19] <alex_joni> those are called kinematicsForward & kinematicsReverse
[17:01:28] <alex_joni> errr.. Inverse
[17:01:37] <Jymmm> oh, so the fwd/rev are just the conversion
[17:01:39] <Jymmm> ?
[17:01:41] <alex_joni> yes
[17:01:49] <Jymmm> ok, gotcha
[17:01:52] <alex_joni> and that's the only thing you need to tell emc right now
[17:01:59] <alex_joni> how to make the conversions
[17:02:04] <alex_joni> the rest it already knows
[17:02:08] <Jymmm> Now, where doesyour code get put?
[17:02:24] <alex_joni> emc2/src/emc/kinematics/bipodkins.c
[17:02:27] <alex_joni> ;-)
[17:02:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, do you need to compile the code every time you want to test it?
[17:02:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or well, make a change to it
[17:02:57] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: for this kind of code, yes
[17:03:03] <Jymmm> no, no, I mean where does it fit in the emc picture, compared to 3 axis machine
[17:03:12] <alex_joni> Jymmm: ;-) gotcha
[17:03:15] <alex_joni> it's like this
[17:03:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, is that a complete recompile of EMC or just the kins.c?
[17:03:44] <alex_joni> emc sees two things: either a world view (carthesian) or a joint view (simply motors)
[17:03:47] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: only kins
[17:03:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[17:04:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that simplifies it a bit
[17:04:07] <alex_joni> Jymmm: emc knows how to move the motors (joint view)
[17:04:16] <Jymmm> k
[17:04:19] <alex_joni> but it receives commands from the interpreter in the world view
[17:04:24] <alex_joni> so it's like this:
[17:04:33] <alex_joni> 1. get a new command (e.g. G1X10Y12)
[17:04:56] <alex_joni> 2. convert the position to joint view (call kinematicsForward() )
[17:05:07] <alex_joni> 3. move the motors with the resulting values
[17:05:17] <alex_joni> warning: highly oversimplified ;)
[17:05:22] <Jymmm> =)
[17:05:46] <alex_joni> actually it plans the move with tiny steps, and converts each step ..
[17:06:27] <alex_joni> ok, now .. to specify kinematicsForward() and Inverse()
[17:06:49] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm getting it. Now would I need two different emc setups, or is this something that I culd flip back and fourht from wtithin the GUI ?
[17:07:02] <alex_joni> not quite from the GUI
[17:07:19] <alex_joni> why would you need 2 emc setups?
[17:07:26] <alex_joni> want to run another machine too?
[17:07:28] <Jymmm> I dont know, was asking
[17:07:46] <Jymmm> Oh, yeah... one laptop, two seperate machiens.
[17:07:57] <alex_joni> ok.. then the best would be 2 emc's
[17:08:00] <Jymmm> Not like I'm going to be painting the wall all the time
[17:08:10] <Jymmm> =)
[17:08:15] <alex_joni> you need to relink the motion controller with another kinematic from time to time..
[17:08:24] <alex_joni> not that complicated.. but easier to have 2
[17:08:43] <Jymmm> Rigth, is that a ini setting or compiled thing?
[17:08:47] <alex_joni> compiled thing
[17:08:59] <alex_joni> change one name, make
[17:09:04] <Jymmm> ok, cool.
[17:09:07] <alex_joni> change it back, make again
[17:09:21] <alex_joni> but you also will want a different ini
[17:09:25] <alex_joni> 2 axes vs. 3
[17:09:31] <alex_joni> different home position, etc
[17:10:10] <Jymmm> Yeah, I understand. Just wasn't sure if it was just a new library being added or changing the entire structure.
[17:10:18] <alex_joni> nah.. just one small file
[17:10:31] <Jymmm> Well compile + ini
[17:10:37] <alex_joni> besides that
[17:10:57] <alex_joni> you'd need the bipodkins.c file which right now doesn't exist.. except in this conversation :D
[17:11:05] <Jymmm> =)
[17:12:09] <Jymmm> WEll, I'll need a LOT more than just that file when I try this... asprin, tequilia, a wall, steppers, spray can trigger, etc. =)
[17:12:09] <alex_joni> but this is really trivial stuff
[17:12:17] <alex_joni> right ;)
[17:12:20] <Jymmm> for you =)
[17:12:40] <Jymmm> remember, I dont even touch CVS
[17:13:04] <Jymmm> (unless web interface)
[17:13:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That pic really helped understanding a lot.
[17:13:57] <Jymmm> helped explaining the code that is
[17:14:34] <alex_joni> ok.. need further explanations?
[17:15:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni I'm good for now, thank you.
[17:15:47] <alex_joni> good
[17:15:51] <Jymmm> It's ironic, something like that seems so technical and complex, yet 15 lines of code is all that's needed.
[17:16:17] <Jymmm> (not that it wasn't a bitch makign sure the math wa right =)
[17:17:30] <Jymmm> alex_joni NASCAR is using your tripod to move a HV camera all aroudn the track.
[17:17:53] <Jymmm> s/hv/HD/
[17:17:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Um, AXIS & 2 axes doesn't play nice
[17:18:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it's somewhat confuzing
[17:18:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it seems to think that the axes come in the order of XYZ
[17:18:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> what I have is two axes, X and Z
[17:18:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra> axis loads correctly, and displays X and Z in the upper left corner
[17:19:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but in the manual jog mode, only X and Y are shown
[17:19:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jogging "Y" moves Z
[17:19:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and the hotkeys for Y move Z
[17:20:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but the live plot shows movement in what I call Z in the Y axis
[17:20:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so, in short, my Z axis acts like it's called Y, everywhere, except for the display in the upper left corner
[17:20:59] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: you need to define LATH something in the ini
[17:21:07] <alex_joni> then AXIS will use some other display I think
[17:21:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there support for lath in axis ver 1.3a2?
[17:21:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> where I say it's a lathe in the INI?
[17:22:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is looking..
[17:22:22] <alex_joni> I read it somewhere..
[17:22:27] <alex_joni> probably an email from cradek?
[17:23:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, I don't recall that
[17:23:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Maybe on the dev mailing list, I don't get that
[17:23:38] <alex_joni> There's a "lathe mode" which simplifies the GUI and shows a special ZX
[17:23:38] <alex_joni> view (set [DISPLAY]LATHE to a non-empty value)
[17:23:49] <alex_joni> it was the users mailing list ;)
[17:23:54] <alex_joni> and the mail was from jepler
[17:24:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh..
[17:24:21] <alex_joni> All these features will be in 1.4, and as I say in my blog I'm tempted
[17:24:21] <alex_joni> to skip putting 1.3 through an alpha and beta cycle, and get right on
[17:24:21] <alex_joni> with 1.4. After all, I haven't added any new bugs, just new features.
[17:24:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> silly me
[17:24:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> where in the ini?
[17:24:43] <alex_joni> under [DISPLAY]
[17:24:49] <alex_joni> you should put 'LATHE=yes'
[17:24:52] <alex_joni> or similar
[17:26:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I think I need a newer version of axis
[17:26:12] <alex_joni> get a snapshot
[17:26:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I have 1.3a2, and dont see changed behaviour
[17:26:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how stable is the snapshot?
[17:26:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how/where?
[17:27:45] <alex_joni> pretty stable
[17:27:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[17:27:59] <alex_joni> http://axis.unpythonic.net/downloads/nightly
[17:28:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> just the standard one?
[17:28:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is installation simple?
[17:29:04] <alex_joni> you're running installed emc2 & axis?
[17:29:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> yes
[17:29:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> stable
[17:29:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or released I mean
[17:30:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it seems the python script manages compilation
[17:31:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> should I remove the 1.3a2 version of axis? (gotten via apt-get)
[17:31:15] <alex_joni> I think you should wait
[17:31:19] <alex_joni> 1-2 days tops
[17:31:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[17:31:24] <alex_joni> and you'll have the new AXIS
[17:31:39] <alex_joni> it's not really rocket science.. but you can get into troubles
[17:31:51] <alex_joni> mixing installed versions with source code versions, etc
[17:32:04] <alex_joni> you'll need the emc2 source to build AXIS, then install..
[17:32:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's what I'd rather not do
[17:32:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> waiting is fine
[17:34:00] <alex_joni> 1-2 days I hope
[17:34:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[17:34:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *hopes for a 1st of june release*
[17:34:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that would coincide with my birthday very nicely ;)
[17:35:10] <LawrenceG> alex_joni: thankyou for the nice bipodkins description
[17:35:48] <LawrenceG> I have to paint my house..... hey spray gun and emc to the rescue
[17:35:48] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: heh, no problem
[17:35:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni: you should blog that pic you drew, it explains the code perfectly.
[17:36:11] <alex_joni> Jymmm: maybe I will..
[17:36:14] <LawrenceG> it would be a nice add to the wiki
[17:36:45] <Jymmm> fuck wiki. (damn much of unorganised electronic post-it notes)
[17:37:01] <Jymmm> s/unorganised/unstructered/
[17:37:08] <LawrenceG> hea.... but when you find the right note all is saved
[17:37:45] <LawrenceG> the side of my computer is stuck full with postits:)
[17:45:47] <alex_joni> suddenly it's quiet
[17:46:42] <etla> got my 5i20 card today :)
[17:48:10] <ValarQ> congrats
[17:48:37] <etla> yeah :) now I need to build some optoisolator boards so that I dont fry it immediately...
[17:49:31] <alex_joni> sounds like a good plan ;)
[17:51:27] <etla> alex: do you know about how spindle speed is represented in HAL ?
[17:51:37] <etla> I'm going to use a servo as the spindle
[17:51:49] <etla> so pulses for more/less rpm aren't really useful...
[17:52:03] <alex_joni> etla: I should know ;) I kinda added that
[17:52:14] <alex_joni> there is a spindle-speed as a float
[17:52:23] <alex_joni> so only link that to a dac, set the proper scale
[17:52:26] <alex_joni> and you're set
[17:52:39] <etla> any problem with encoder count overflow ?
[17:53:18] <alex_joni> at 32 bits?
[17:53:25] <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.spindle-speed-out
[17:53:29] <alex_joni> unlikely
[17:53:37] <etla> hmm....
[17:54:24] <etla> at 6000rpm, with an 8000 counts/rev encoder, 32bits will overflow in 89 minutes
[17:54:37] <alex_joni> max count ~2147483647
[17:54:48] <alex_joni> you mean counter on the spindle?
[17:54:53] <etla> yes
[17:55:00] <alex_joni> do you plan on doing threading?
[17:55:06] <etla> why not ;)
[17:55:26] <alex_joni> each threading cycle resets the counter afaik
[17:55:52] <etla> ok that makes sense
[17:55:54] <alex_joni> but normally it shouldn't matter if it overflows or not
[17:56:07] <alex_joni> because usually you only care about delta (speed)
[17:57:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabs a bath
[17:58:09] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:08:57] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: That's why I've been using 6x9 spiral notepads for years!
[18:43:47] <robin_z> 6x9? coo, that must be in inches. how quaint ;)
[18:45:27] <alex_joni> 'lo all
[19:11:56] <robin_z> lo bob
[19:13:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra> you bring pie?
[19:16:26] <alex_joni> no, just piece
[19:19:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> when come back, bring pie!
[19:19:19] <cradek> I like pie
[19:20:05] <alex_joni> what kind?
[19:21:19] <cradek> I think LH is talking about an old internet cartoon where some characters talk about pie
[19:21:32] <cradek> I think the one says "I like pie" so that's what I said
[19:21:58] <alex_joni> oh.. thought you really like pie.. I know I do ;)
[19:22:01] <alex_joni> apple pie
[19:22:05] <alex_joni> with cinnamon
[19:22:13] <cradek> I do actually like pie too
[19:22:17] <alex_joni> & roasted nuts
[19:22:31] <cradek> apple is good, but I like pumpkin
[19:22:40] <cradek> nuts on applie pie, interesting
[19:23:17] <cradek> I hear in Wisconsin US it's a law that apple pie be served with cheddar cheese
[19:23:26] <cradek> I think it's wisconsin
[19:24:00] <cradek> I think apple pie should be warm with ice cream
[19:24:08] <alex_joni> mmmh.. nice
[19:28:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> pie is good
[19:28:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> pie pie pie pie pie
[19:28:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> (yes cradek, you are correct. the cartoon is called weebl & bob)
[19:29:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/pie.htm
[19:31:44] <cradek> I've seen it before, but it's still not funny to me
[19:32:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I find it funny in it's strange oddness
[19:32:34] <cradek> and I guess the line is "me like pie" so I got it wrong
[19:42:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I ran my lathe a bit just now, and now g92 seems to work correctly
[19:43:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no problems, I did about 10 offsets (5 in X and 5 in Z)
[19:44:05] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: odd.. maybe you missed something
[19:44:15] <alex_joni> when it didn't work right
[19:44:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> probably
[19:44:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> maybe a division error or something
[19:44:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any way to input a math operation instead of a value?
[19:45:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it didn't like g92 x(12.35/2)
[19:45:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but is there any other way to do the same thing?
[19:45:41] <alex_joni> only using vars afaik
[19:45:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[19:45:48] <alex_joni> not sure you can do that from MDI though
[19:45:54] <alex_joni> #2=12.35
[19:45:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so no easy way in mdi?
[19:46:00] <alex_joni> #3=#2 / 2
[19:46:06] <alex_joni> or something like that..
[19:46:11] <A-L-P-H-A> swpadnos is still not here.
[19:46:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, not very practical for what I'm doing
[19:46:16] <alex_joni> but to say for sure .. RTFM ;)
[19:46:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> shh!
[19:46:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ;)
[19:46:25] <alex_joni> the Fine manual
[19:46:37] <A-L-P-H-A> thought it stood for fucking
[19:46:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'm going to print it tomorrow
[19:46:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I'll write that stuff about lathe functions too
[19:47:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Who's played with the gecko G101/G100? I want to talk to them about their experience before I drop a load of cash on that unit.
[19:48:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, another question, is joystick functionality going to come with 2.0.1?
[19:49:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and if so,can you use a midi/gameport joystick?
[19:49:55] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: I think it's in 2.0.0 already
[19:50:19] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: I don't think anyone from here...
[19:50:23] <K4ts> helo
[19:50:25] <K4ts> hello
[19:50:32] <alex_joni> although I heard jmk & swp have one ?
[19:50:34] <alex_joni> hi K4ts
[19:50:47] <K4ts> hi alex_joni
[19:50:49] <les_w> hi k4ts
[19:51:36] <K4ts> ehila les_w
[19:52:02] <K4ts> tarzan?
[19:52:42] <les_w> me? not quite!
[19:52:44] <les_w> HAHA
[19:53:11] <les_w> I hunted up ehila in translator
[19:53:17] <les_w> in english...
[19:53:20] <K4ts> I'm your jane tarzan
[19:53:28] <K4ts> ahah
[19:53:28] <les_w> it says "hey you"
[19:53:33] <les_w> haha
[19:53:39] <K4ts> hey you!
[19:53:49] <les_w> ehila!
[19:53:53] <K4ts> ahah
[19:54:04] <alex_joni> don't mistake that for ebola
[19:54:05] <K4ts> :-)
[19:54:34] <les_w> I am nervous...got a call and many engineers will be flying down to visit my shop
[19:54:49] <les_w> From ITW Finishing systems
[19:55:02] <alex_joni> coo
[19:56:00] <les_w> I am trying to get that Agilent impedance analyzer in before they get here
[19:56:07] <les_w> and learn how to use it
[19:56:31] <les_w> $41,000 lunchbox?
[19:56:38] <les_w> that's what it looks like
[19:56:47] <SkunkWorks> alex_joni: have not blown any ir's up yet but I have not run any current. Took me to this point to find 2 solder bridges that hooked the other side of the gate resister to ground :(. both the high side gates where shorted to ground - so when I would try to just activate them the current would skyrocket on vcc.
[19:56:52] <giacus> hello
[19:56:59] <les_w> hi giacus
[19:57:39] <alex_joni> hi giacus
[19:57:58] <giacus> hi guys
[20:01:52] <Jymmm> hi les
[20:02:07] <giacus> hi Jymmm :)
[20:02:20] <Jymmm> hi jacky
[20:04:42] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I was watching the spray can videos... I noticed they they "zero" out one string by making it go all the way to the motor, then do the safe for the other string. I guess they have limit/home switches to help "calibrate" Bx
[20:04:54] <Jymmm> s/safe/same/
[20:05:09] <alex_joni> either that or relying on steppers ;)
[20:05:19] <alex_joni> to lose steps when they are at point 0
[20:05:52] <alex_joni> they don't calibrate Bx (that's a mechanical constant there : aka a metal rod between the two motors)
[20:05:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni I just noticed that they do this process in all the videos before starting a new painting.
[20:05:59] <alex_joni> they calibrate / home AD & BD..
[20:09:50] <Jymmm> yeah, what you said =)
[20:10:53] <robin_z> les_w, hi :)
[20:16:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra> uh, how do you configure EMC to use a joystick for jogging?
[20:17:53] <cradek> you'd probably need to add more jog hooks to halui
[20:18:54] <K4ts> hi Jymmm !!!
[20:20:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> didn't someone use it during the fest?
[20:20:29] <Jymmm> les_w with all these visitors, you should open up a B&B and get grandma across the street to cook family style
[20:20:30] <cradek> for feed override, not jogging
[20:20:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[20:20:35] <Jymmm> Hey SWPadnos!!! LTNS
[20:20:37] <cradek> afaik
[20:20:40] <SWPadnos> indeed
[20:20:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so only one axis was used?
[20:20:49] <cradek> hi swp
[20:20:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Got lost? Kindnapped?
[20:21:03] <cradek> we were starting to wonder if a bus hit you
[20:21:19] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes, but they're all supported by the hal driver
[20:21:44] <SWPadnos> just barely
[20:21:46] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: you can use an encoder to jog now, that's better than a joystick anyway
[20:22:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok. What type of encoder?
[20:22:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is it possible to use the hole-disc type?
[20:22:22] <cradek> the usual jogwheel type (any quadrature encoder really)
[20:22:37] <cradek> not unless you just want to jog in one direction ever
[20:22:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, you havea point there ;)
[20:23:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> how many pins do quadrature encoders usually have?
[20:23:23] <cradek> gnd, +5, two phases
[20:23:25] <alex_joni> 2+gnd
[20:23:32] <alex_joni> and +5V
[20:23:59] <alex_joni> but usually a bit more (+5, gnd, A, /A, B, /B, Z, /Z )
[20:24:04] <SWPadnos> +1 for index
[20:24:07] <SWPadnos> right
[20:24:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I found something at home that I think are encoders, it says grayhill on the side, has an axle that can turn without stops, and a total of 6 pins
[20:24:23] <SWPadnos> that's a 6201 series, I believe
[20:24:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> has a pid of 61by15034
[20:24:52] <SWPadnos> oops - 61C11
[20:25:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> google doesn't find anything called "61by15034"
[20:25:48] <SWPadnos> pin 1 is ground, 2 and 3 are the button (if
[20:25:56] <SWPadnos> (if you can push the shaft)
[20:26:06] <SWPadnos> 4 is A, 5 is B, 6 is +5V
[20:26:15] <SWPadnos> sorry - 4 is B, 5 is A
[20:26:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the shaft is translatable about 1.5mm, no "click" feeling though
[20:26:31] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: might be gray code
[20:27:09] <Jymmm> grey code makes sense
[20:27:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that would give +5, gnd, and 4 pins for gray code
[20:27:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> which sounds reasonable
[20:27:53] <SWPadnos> does it have detents when you turn it?
[20:28:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no, it's smooth
[20:28:29] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:28:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra> has quite a bit of resistance
[20:28:41] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: did you open it?
[20:28:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> no, I haven't gotten the courage yet
[20:29:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> and it looks quite hard to open
[20:29:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the top is riveted
[20:29:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra> or something
[20:29:19] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: how big is it.. and please use mm
[20:30:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> images coming...
[20:33:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/6757/img52739ec.jpg
[20:34:16] <jepler> cradek: what pull-up resistor value did you use for your encoders? Did you just guess?
[20:34:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/8538/img52749yh.jpg
[20:34:32] <cradek> jepler: I didn't use any
[20:34:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> tha base is 19.5mm (the square part)
[20:35:06] <jepler> cradek: oh? the datasheet for the spirograph's encoders called for them.
[20:35:18] <cradek> huh
[20:35:25] <jepler> 3.3 kOhm
[20:35:30] <cradek> I get nice square waves without them
[20:35:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/6757/img52739ec.jpg
[20:35:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/8538/img52749yh.jpg
[20:35:51] <cradek> I thought encoders generally have direct-to-ttl output
[20:35:53] <jepler> I think I did too, when just hooking them up to the 'scope with nothing extra
[20:35:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> there, sorry about the b0rken links
[20:36:00] <jepler> I don't remember exactly
[20:36:32] <SWPadnos> it depends on the output drivers
[20:37:10] <jepler> "Grayhill 62S SERIES OPTICAL ENCODER" http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/searchPage2.jsp?x=0&Ntt=categorynumber84931&Nty=1&showImages=true&N=4&y=0&Ntk=gensearch
[20:37:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> it doesn't say 62S anywhere on the encoder.. strnage
[20:37:41] <jepler> no, that's not quite it
[20:37:53] <jepler> this page also has Series 61 and 61M
[20:38:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh, ok
[20:38:14] <cradek> I love how they number the pins 1..6 as if that helps anyone
[20:38:24] <alex_joni> lol
[20:38:25] <SWPadnos> it's probably a 24-position roptical rotary switch
[20:38:29] <jepler> http://www.newark.com/brands/grayhill/
[20:39:09] <jepler> http://www.sodimatel.com/image_base/Img_560.pdf
[20:39:23] <SWPadnos> http://lgrws01.grayhill.com/web/pdf/I-19-20.pdf
[20:39:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> well, the images don't match, but I guess that doesn't say much
[20:40:00] <SWPadnos> they have a 61B series, but no Y as a standard part
[20:40:05] <SWPadnos> they do make custom switches thouh
[20:40:10] <SWPadnos> though
[20:40:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> oh. I wonder where those came from
[20:40:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> found em in a box with other assorted stuff at home
[20:41:04] <jepler> the 15 might indicate 15 degree (24 position)
[20:41:12] <SWPadnos> that was my thought
[20:41:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> anyway, those look like they would be quite suitable for jogging a lathe
[20:41:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> easier than a keyboard + mouse in any case
[20:41:43] <SWPadnos> kinda low res, but OK
[20:42:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, yes a bit too low-res
[20:42:10] <cradek> it would be nicer if it had 25 (100) per rev
[20:42:11] <SWPadnos> the 24 is actually the number of phase changes, not the number of cycles
[20:42:18] <cradek> oh
[20:42:23] <cradek> that's too low then
[20:42:30] <SWPadnos> if it's like the 32-count one I'm holding ;)
[20:42:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> too coarse?
[20:42:51] <jepler> yeah, that's how I read "Img_560.pdf"
[20:42:52] <cradek> yes see "position number" in the waveform plot
[20:43:47] <SWPadnos> it would still be onw jog increment per encoder click, but at 0.1 mm/step, the machine would only move 2.4mm per full revolution of the encoder
[20:43:53] <SWPadnos> s/onw/one/
[20:44:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, depending on how fast you spin it it could work ;)
[20:44:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:44:38] <A-L-P-H-A> my hero!!!
[20:44:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra> i could probably do 1 turn/sec
[20:44:43] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos... got time to chat?
[20:44:46] <jepler> cradek: I've continued messing with this encoder divider for AVR. If my cycle counting is right, it's around 20 AVR cycles per encoder change, for a single encoder and nothing else running.
[20:44:58] <jepler> cradek: (and if the software is correct)
[20:44:58] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, sure
[20:45:10] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, k... you wrote something for the gecko g10X.
[20:45:18] <SWPadnos> just the serial downloader
[20:45:28] <SWPadnos> (for Windows)
[20:45:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm wondering what's the development stage at this point for the G100/G101?
[20:45:51] <SWPadnos> damned good question. you need Dynamic C from Rabbit
[20:45:51] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, I've got a crappy pulse train... which only gets me something like 6-10ipm on my mill...
[20:46:12] <SWPadnos> that's strange. have you updated the firmware recently? (and which firmware are you using)
[20:46:17] <cradek> jepler: I was trying to figure out a way to use large state lookup tables to read four encoders (all at a time on one port) and count them
[20:46:23] <A-L-P-H-A> nononono
[20:46:27] <A-L-P-H-A> i haven't bought one yet.
[20:46:31] <SWPadnos> ah - nevermind ;)
[20:46:52] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: what are you using?
[20:46:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I know how the G100/G101 will work to increase my pulse train... but I'm wondering how easy would it be.
[20:46:57] <alex_joni> and what is the pulse rate?
[20:47:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm it's late here in sweden
[20:47:12] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, easy as pie, if you use Mach4
[20:47:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra> night all
[20:47:19] <SWPadnos> night LH
[20:47:21] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: one thing is for sure.. you won't be able to use emc with it
[20:47:23] <alex_joni> night lh
[20:47:26] <A-L-P-H-A> AMD XP 1700, parallel port, emc BDI (I have a new copy).
[20:47:33] <A-L-P-H-A> newer
[20:47:34] <SWPadnos> not yet anyway (and possibly not ever)
[20:47:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> *poofs*
[20:47:40] <A-L-P-H-A> crap.
[20:47:51] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: how much pulses?
[20:47:56] <alex_joni> 20-30kHz ?
[20:47:57] <alex_joni> more?
[20:48:03] <A-L-P-H-A> i can't remember what my range is...
[20:48:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd have to boot up the emc machine.
[20:48:11] <alex_joni> or.. lets put it the other way.. what's the counts / inch ?
[20:48:17] <SWPadnos> it isn't really made for closed loop control, you can't get around the 1mS update rate (maybe to 500 uS, but no better without changing the FPGA)
[20:48:32] <A-L-P-H-A> what's Mach4's website?
[20:49:01] <A-L-P-H-A> so win32 -> mach4 -> G10X -> drivers -> mill is the best option?/
[20:49:17] <alex_joni> http://www.gillettem3power.com
[20:49:30] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't say it's the best option, no
[20:49:31] <jepler> alex_joni: *snorts*
[20:49:31] <alex_joni> that's the best Mach3 I know
[20:49:41] <SWPadnos> but it should work for open loop control
[20:49:46] <A-L-P-H-A> machsupport.com
[20:49:46] <A-L-P-H-A> :P
[20:49:54] <Jymmm> artofcnc.ca
[20:49:55] <SWPadnos> http://www.artofcnc.ca
[20:50:00] <alex_joni> oh.. in case you cut yourself?
[20:50:47] <SWPadnos> very nice razors, actually
[20:51:12] <alex_joni> and there is Fusion..
[20:51:15] <alex_joni> 5 blades ;)
[20:51:16] <SWPadnos> haven't tried the 5-blade ones yet
[20:51:20] <alex_joni> better than mach4 ;)
[20:51:30] <SWPadnos> of course, it's got a 5 in the name ;)
[20:51:43] <alex_joni> these days you'll only need to move the razor half an inch
[20:51:48] <A-L-P-H-A> so hot here... so muggy too
[20:51:48] <alex_joni> and it'll shave all your head
[20:51:49] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[20:51:58] <alex_joni> because it'll have 317 blades :D
[20:52:05] <SWPadnos> I won't be happy until I can just beam the hair off my face
[20:52:10] <SWPadnos> (or head, as the case may be)
[20:52:22] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, already can.
[20:52:26] <A-L-P-H-A> laser hair removal.
[20:52:34] <alex_joni> http://www.laughparty.com/items/349.jpg
[20:52:40] <SWPadnos> too much equipment to carry on a plane ;)
[20:52:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:52:55] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, you really only need to do it once or twice.
[20:53:05] <alex_joni> every few years
[20:53:14] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[20:53:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I dunno... I'm Asian... I have very little body hair.
[20:53:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:53:44] <SkunkWorks> wohoo - I can pulse the optos and the motor spins :)
[20:53:46] <SWPadnos> I'm part eastern european, so I get a fair amount ;)
[20:54:10] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: looking away ;)
[20:54:13] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe all eastern european, come to think of it
[20:54:20] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, so... what's the deal? Should I get the G10X or the step multipliers from geckodrive?
[20:54:20] <SWPadnos> cool, SkunkWorks
[20:54:42] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I don't have that much..
[20:54:52] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, are you currently using emc?
[20:54:53] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, my exGFs that were European, they were furry compared to me... :( kinda grossed me out.
[20:55:16] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, yes... but I'm willing to jump ship if I can make it work better with the mach4+g10x
[20:55:19] <SWPadnos> I still can't grow a (nice) beard, but I get a fair amount of stubble
[20:55:51] <SWPadnos> it'll run you ~$350 for the G100, plus $150 or 200 for mach + the license for the mach version of the firmware
[20:55:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I get whiskers... I can go withuot shaving for a week and still be acceptable... after that it's just eew... they're too long.
[20:55:59] <SkunkWorks> pretty cool. The last but I don't know what it was - the low gate one one of the mosfets wasn't getting 15v. I fiddled with it looking for voltages - and it started working. Odd
[20:56:14] <SWPadnos> the G901 (or 902) will be $100 total
[20:56:26] <SWPadnos> do you have steppers or servos?
[20:56:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I haven't shaved in 3 days... and I have 1mm of stubble.
[20:56:31] <A-L-P-H-A> steppers
[20:56:38] <A-L-P-H-A> would need 3 I think.
[20:56:45] <SWPadnos> right - they're $34 each
[20:56:48] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[20:56:59] <SWPadnos> or close to that
[20:57:02] <A-L-P-H-A> 102 + shipping + customs + brokerage.
[20:57:03] <SkunkWorks> I need to make another board - this one is pretty hacked up. (1 set of pins needs to be reversed.)
[20:57:12] <SkunkWorks> but so far so good.
[20:57:40] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... I think I'll order it that way... that way I don't have to mach4.
[20:57:42] <jepler> SkunkWorks: this is one of the first boards you've milled, right?
[20:58:03] <A-L-P-H-A> and I could use turboCNC (i'm a proud registered user) with it too
[20:58:04] <SWPadnos> you may also want to consider a Mesa or Pico card
[20:58:08] <cradek> I wish I had gone to the mach demos at workshop
[20:58:16] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos? who?
[20:58:39] <SWPadnos> mesa electronics (http://www.mesanet.com) or Pico Systems (http://www.pico-systems.com I think)
[20:58:45] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, what's the G901 board exactly do? just takes one pulse and sends out 10?
[20:58:45] <jepler> cradek: you can see some screenshots in the worst picture viewer ever: http://www.machsupport.com/artsoft/screenshots/Mach3ScreenShot.html
[20:58:50] <SkunkWorks> jepler: right.
[20:58:51] <A-L-P-H-A> is there a controlled mannor that it does this?
[20:59:02] <SWPadnos> selectable, 1, 2, 5, or 10 output pulses per input pulse
[20:59:11] <A-L-P-H-A> hmmm.
[20:59:25] <robin__sz> * robin__sz wonders about doing his own zinc plating
[20:59:34] <robin__sz> how hard can it be huh?
[20:59:53] <cradek> * cradek blinks at the colorful mach display
[21:00:00] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... I've settled on getting the g901. (three of them)
[21:00:36] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[21:01:17] <SWPadnos> what kind of pulse rates are you trying to get with the parport?
[21:01:45] <A-L-P-H-A> gah... the machsupport gallery thing is aweful
[21:02:09] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, so how was the fest?
[21:02:20] <SWPadnos> it was fun for me
[21:02:25] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[21:02:28] <SWPadnos> and pretty productive, I think
[21:02:28] <cradek> man that's an ugly program - why are they afraid to use standard widgets and fonts? someone might understand how to use them?
[21:02:41] <SWPadnos> those aren't so non-standard for XP
[21:02:47] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, they're affraid that someone knows how to use them.
[21:02:51] <SWPadnos> it's all about jellybeans
[21:02:53] <cradek> are the things at the top tabs?
[21:02:58] <cradek> "tabs"?
[21:03:03] <SWPadnos> could be
[21:03:16] <cradek> and the fake LCD font makes the numbers nice and hard to read
[21:03:19] <jepler> cradek: you must have missed the guy over near the swap tables showing his cam software. it was a combination of Times New Roman for the unimportant text, and MS Comic Sans (Bold?) for the important text.
[21:03:22] <SWPadnos> it didn't look that colorful when I ran it on this machine
[21:03:37] <SWPadnos> (mach, not easyCNC)
[21:03:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm am sooo happy that I switched to LCD monitors... there isn't an ADDED heat issue with the room from the monitors
[21:03:54] <SWPadnos> you need bigger LCDs
[21:04:08] <cradek> yeah mine runs pretty warm
[21:04:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I got three 17" Viewsonic Optiquest LCDs... model Q7.
[21:04:24] <A-L-P-H-A> :P
[21:04:31] <SWPadnos> whatever ;)
[21:05:15] <Jymmm> Yeah, my 21" CRT puts out a bit of heat too
[21:05:23] <cradek> even on the demo screenshots they have text splattered over other text and under widgets
[21:05:40] <cradek> "OutPut" haha
[21:05:57] <Jymmm> but damnit, I cant find a 32" LCD at hi res super cheap!
[21:06:49] <SWPadnos> wait one, they'll be there
[21:06:54] <SWPadnos> (one decade)
[21:06:57] <Jymmm> =(
[21:07:08] <cradek> huh, people contribute code ("wizards") even though they bought the software?
[21:07:17] <Jymmm> Hey 17" LCS only $170
[21:07:18] <A-L-P-H-A> heh... I maybe selling my old 19" CRTs to someone for 75CDN / each.
[21:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> 225. :)
[21:07:36] <A-L-P-H-A> recapture 1/3 of my LCD prices.
[21:07:59] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A $2 CDN per inch
[21:08:34] <jepler> that seems like a pretty high price for a used CRT
[21:08:51] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler... :) should I go higher? :)
[21:09:03] <cradek> hahahaha
[21:09:05] <jepler> I'd rather have a 1280x1024 17" LCD than a larger CRT.
[21:09:09] <cradek> mach3-011.jpg
[21:09:13] <jepler> or whatever the typical inch size is for 1280x1024
[21:09:54] <SWPadnos> that sure looks like an easy way to do a G83 cycle (or whatever it is)
[21:10:00] <Jymmm> http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/electronics/frys/i/2006/05/26/17078.html
[21:10:42] <jepler> it's to do a circle of drills
[21:10:44] <cradek> yeah the functionality is probably nice, I can't get over the yellow round RESET pink EXIT and baby ble Post Code all in different fonts
[21:10:49] <cradek> blue
[21:10:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:11:02] <cradek> and the [Clear] Inch
[21:11:03] <SWPadnos> high class design
[21:11:14] <jepler> cradek: btw someone (steve stallings?) was confused at the "ESTOP" button in axis, he thought it was a quit button because of the "x".
[21:11:20] <cradek> and the smattering of fake lcds all over the screen like someone sneezed
[21:11:43] <jepler> wtf is with the glowey green dots?
[21:11:48] <Jymmm> 17" LCD $120 http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/electronics/frys/i/2006/05/19/16976.html
[21:11:55] <cradek> I can't imagine
[21:12:02] <SWPadnos> they make it look much cooler
[21:12:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Maybe I won't have to wait a decade after all =)
[21:12:09] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/electronics/frys/i/2006/05/26/17078.html shit that looks exactly like my viewsonic.
[21:12:14] <A-L-P-H-A> exacpt it sames emprex on it.
[21:12:20] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that's not 32"
[21:12:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A they're all made in the same place, just different stickers on the front/back
[21:13:03] <jepler> cradek: what you don't realize from the screenshots is that a lot of things blink
[21:13:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I deny your reality, and substitute my own!
[21:13:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm - any idea what mach3-022027.jpg is doing? (second from the bottom, right side, page 3)
[21:14:57] <Jymmm> multi views?
[21:15:31] <SWPadnos> it's basically the same as the one next to it (mach3-022026.jpg)
[21:15:37] <SWPadnos> just more colorful
[21:17:26] <robin__sz> paint it black
[21:17:35] <robin__sz> * robin__sz had sales rep fun today
[21:17:43] <Jymmm> I think MACH's UI is WAY WAY TOO overloaded UI wise
[21:18:34] <robin__sz> eh?
[21:18:48] <robin__sz> * robin__sz wonders what planet Jymm is on
[21:18:50] <Jymmm> 50,000 controls cramed into one screen
[21:19:11] <robin__sz> * robin__sz wonders even more
[21:19:23] <robin__sz> you have found the screen editor, right?
[21:19:37] <Jymmm> No, and I shouldn't have to.
[21:19:47] <robin__sz> eh?
[21:20:02] <robin__sz> thats like saying emc has far too many functions to use
[21:20:21] <robin__sz> you dont HAVE to use them all you know, thats just a base to start with
[21:20:47] <robin__sz> which screen are you using anyway? the full one with everyting on it?
[21:21:02] <SWPadnos> looking at screenshots from machsupport.com
[21:21:22] <robin__sz> there are simple screens for routers, lathes and other things
[21:21:35] <Jymmm> 53 controls that I count... Pg1, top left, mach3-001
[21:22:11] <robin__sz> yeah, but emc has 12 axes and 240 inputs ...
[21:23:19] <SWPadnos> stop please. the mach screens in that picturebook look crowded. the emc screens also look confusing to first time users. let's move on please.
[21:23:33] <Jymmm> The UI is just not intuitive, could be broken up.
[21:23:37] <SWPadnos> (just nipping the oncoming "duscussion" in the bud :) )
[21:23:49] <robin__sz> why?
[21:24:02] <SWPadnos> me?
[21:24:18] <robin__sz> question: have you acutally used the Mach screen editor?
[21:24:43] <SWPadnos> I have fiddled with it, but not used. I know it's there, and I know it's useful.
[21:24:54] <robin__sz> good. thats a start then :)
[21:25:33] <robin__sz> its a good tool, we could use sometihng similar
[21:25:47] <SWPadnos> there's been work done on that front, but not in some time
[21:25:56] <SWPadnos> feel free to contribute something though ;)
[21:27:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm drops a pin.... KaBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
[21:27:07] <robin__sz> the point is, its no point saying "machs screens are too cluttered" because they are NOT designed to be used as such, the stock screens are just everything fully configured, because its so easy to chaneg them as you want them, and there are other specialist cut-down screens pre doen for people who want a simpler version ..
[21:27:37] <robin__sz> SWPadnos, I did start, but lost interest when the licensing problems began
[21:27:54] <dmessier> hi all..
[21:28:47] <robin__sz> I think I offered up what I had done and someone grabbed it .. then I delted the repository in a fit of pique :)
[21:28:48] <SWPadnos> there are no licensing problems that I know of (in the UI realm, anyway)
[21:28:53] <SWPadnos> bummer
[21:29:12] <SWPadnos> Paul, Alex (I think) and I had done some work on a qt widget library
[21:29:31] <alex_joni> not me..
[21:29:45] <SWPadnos> maybe it was anonimasu
[21:29:55] <SWPadnos> I can't remember - one of you A guys ;)
[21:29:55] <robin__sz> my view was that the gui connector should be LGPL to allow commercial users to build their own GUI frameworks ...
[21:30:19] <SWPadnos> we discussed that idea at fest
[21:30:36] <SWPadnos> it was met with lukewarm enthusiasm, I'd say
[21:30:43] <alex_joni> libnml is LGPL for exactly that reason
[21:30:52] <SWPadnos> is it?
[21:30:53] <robin__sz> it is?
[21:30:59] <SWPadnos> what he said
[21:31:02] <robin__sz> * robin__sz thought it was GPL
[21:31:08] <SWPadnos> what he said
[21:31:16] <robin__sz> and was pretty certain it was stated it would NEVER be gpl
[21:31:26] <SWPadnos> almost what he said ;)
[21:31:33] <SWPadnos> (never be lgpl)
[21:31:44] <robin__sz> personally I think it should be LGPL, but shrug
[21:32:14] <robin__sz> I cant remember if I deleted my repository containing the re-write of Rays Tcl stuff
[21:32:29] <robin__sz> i was fairly off the wall then .. so probably :)
[21:33:50] <robin__sz> whatever ... time moves on
[21:34:09] <SWPadnos> interesting. it does look like it's LGPL. cool
[21:34:16] <robin__sz> coo ...
[21:34:22] <robin__sz> how did THAT happen?
[21:34:28] <SWPadnos> damfino
[21:35:00] <robin__sz> step in the right direction ... it might encourage someone commercial to do something at some point ..
[21:35:10] <robin__sz> and maybe, just maybe, contribute to the core
[21:35:19] <SWPadnos> could well be
[21:35:29] <alex_joni> way back it happened
[21:35:46] <SWPadnos> at least 12 months ago, since that's the last revision date on most of the files ;)
[21:35:58] <robin__sz> I thought libnml was pauls re-write of the nml public domain stuff?
[21:36:02] <alex_joni> it is
[21:36:22] <alex_joni> and he released it under LGPL
[21:36:30] <robin__sz> really?
[21:36:33] <alex_joni> really
[21:36:36] <robin__sz> mazin
[21:36:42] <alex_joni> lol
[21:36:44] <robin__sz> * robin__sz doffs his cap
[21:37:30] <robin__sz> I take back most of what I said about him
[21:37:37] <SWPadnos> heh.
[21:38:10] <robin__sz> is he on channel today?
[21:38:18] <SWPadnos> hard to tell
[21:38:42] <robin__sz> yeah, sometimes its not easy to spot which of the new names is him ... so many new names these days
[21:40:10] <alex_joni> g'night gents
[21:40:18] <robin__sz> night mr Joni
[21:40:26] <SWPadnos> night-o
[21:40:34] <robin__sz> * robin__sz appoints Mr Joni as "keeper of the bots"
[21:41:59] <giacus> hey SWPadnos !
[21:42:07] <SWPadnos> hiya giacus
[21:42:22] <giacus> we was talking about you yestarday
[21:42:24] <robin__sz> so ... just how crazy would it be to try to do my own zinc plating?
[21:42:26] <giacus> is all right ?
[21:42:49] <SWPadnos> I was just trying to get some work done, so I didn't load chatzilla ;)
[21:42:58] <giacus> :-)
[21:42:59] <SWPadnos> today, however, I was in an auto accident :(
[21:43:05] <robin__sz> coo
[21:43:09] <SWPadnos> so now I'm relaxing
[21:43:10] <giacus> ouch
[21:43:21] <robin__sz> did anything die?
[21:43:33] <K4ts> giacus mi fai aprlare sola
[21:43:35] <K4ts> ?
[21:43:45] <giacus> anna .. non sono sul canale :)
[21:43:47] <SWPadnos> my trusty van (which brought me to fest, 2300 miles) was hit pretty badly
[21:43:50] <giacus> hehe
[21:43:55] <robin__sz> oopsie
[21:44:09] <robin__sz> write off?
[21:44:13] <SWPadnos> my new computer was in the van, and the hit was bad enough to dent the case
[21:44:22] <robin__sz> dang
[21:44:23] <giacus> K4ts: oh.. the query, sorry ..
[21:44:29] <SWPadnos> 10 years old, 143000 miles - probably a write-off
[21:44:34] <robin__sz> whose fault?
[21:44:39] <SWPadnos> the computer is worth more than the van
[21:44:44] <robin__sz> heh
[21:44:46] <SWPadnos> the other driver
[21:44:56] <robin__sz> gonna pay?
[21:44:57] <SWPadnos> slammed me from behind
[21:45:02] <dmessier> sucks when that happens... everyone OK
[21:45:03] <SWPadnos> insurance is compulsory here
[21:45:18] <robin__sz> here too, but they wiggle and avoid
[21:45:28] <SWPadnos> I'm mostly fine. she wasn't wearing a seat bels, and was taken away in an ambulance
[21:45:30] <dmessier> but book value will be next to nothin'
[21:45:35] <robin__sz> hahaha
[21:45:44] <robin__sz> here, belts are compulsory
[21:45:51] <SWPadnos> same here
[21:46:07] <robin__sz> heh, oh well.
[21:46:23] <SWPadnos> yeah- book is anywhere from $2200 to $3100 or so ($5000 for retail)
[21:46:25] <dmessier> belts.. insurance.. emission test.. we need it ALL
[21:46:37] <robin__sz> you know what is the single biggest thing you can fot to a vehicle to imoprove safety?
[21:46:47] <SWPadnos> the brake line popped when I was hit, and the back door (liftgate) is a bit munched
[21:46:53] <SWPadnos> don't drive it
[21:47:19] <robin__sz> nah, a 12" steel spike in the middel of the steering wheel ...
[21:47:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:47:53] <SWPadnos> make people pay attention, huh
[21:47:56] <robin__sz> right
[21:47:58] <dmessier> i like electrical shorts... just after i filled her UP
[21:48:11] <robin__sz> electrical shorts?
[21:48:18] <robin__sz> sound fun, I might get my wife a pair
[21:48:33] <dmessier> lite her up... and walk away...
[21:48:50] <SWPadnos> I prefer a hands on approach to that ;)
[21:48:58] <dmessier> an electrical SHORT circuit
[21:49:04] <robin__sz> oh ... riiiiight
[21:49:17] <robin__sz> been rebuilding my bike ...
[21:49:32] <robin__sz> a carb overhaul has worked wonders
[21:49:35] <dmessier> what kinda bike>>??
[21:49:43] <robin__sz> nice one :)
[21:49:53] <robin__sz> '76 Ducati
[21:50:25] <robin__sz> paint stripper works great on carbs ...
[21:50:45] <dmessier> si... a friend ran over a turtle on Saturday on his new paul smart special edition...
[21:51:21] <robin__sz> remove all the bits, paitn stripper and wire brush, then 'fizz' them in a weak casutic bath
[21:51:25] <robin__sz> heh
[21:51:31] <robin__sz> turtle? weird.
[21:51:54] <dmessier> no we have many... he was behind a car...
[21:52:24] <dmessier> said it flew and landed like a dream
[21:52:40] <robin__sz> my perfect bike would be a 750SS, like the imola/smart bike, but not the crazy sparkly paint job
[21:53:11] <dmessier> i wont ride down south here...
[21:54:19] <dmessier> canada has managed to CRAM 90 % of its population into 10 % of its land area... and i wont ride in that ZONE
[21:54:58] <SWPadnos> Toronto, eh?
[21:55:33] <dmessier> yes..
[21:55:44] <dmessier> area.. Oshawa actually
[21:56:16] <SWPadnos> it's worth it to go to Rodney's (and I like the Nine of Cups as well, though I'm not sure it's still there)
[21:56:24] <K4ts> night
[21:56:40] <robin__sz> http://www.dankelman.nl/images/Modellen/Ducati_750_SS_1972.jpg
[21:56:42] <robin__sz> like that.
[21:56:46] <robin__sz> thats what I want
[21:57:55] <dmessier> same front fairing as my buddy's 1000
[21:58:44] <dmessier> its tight when you have big mitts like mine
[22:01:12] <robin__sz> but your mates is a modern bike ...
[22:01:30] <dmessier> robin you PG right??
[22:01:42] <robin__sz> yeah, when I get the time
[22:02:08] <robin__sz> in the hills, not like you flatlanders :)
[22:03:04] <dmessier> i left my bag in the car on Sunday.. flew the HG... a higher air time pilot decides to ask what we think...
[22:04:53] <dmessier> i said ..i have no speed bar attatched to my wing this spring yet.. and find it quite cyclic...lull to 10km for3-5 min... build to 25-30 in the next 5...
[22:05:31] <dmessier> howl up to 35 for 5 and cycle back down...
[22:06:24] <dmessier> he launche in a lull NOT... went VERTICLE.. and slightly backwards....2500 fpm
[22:06:44] <robin__sz> now, thats what i call a thermal :)
[22:07:16] <robin__sz> Ive seen 2000 fpm when flying in the french alps .. and it was SCARY
[22:07:35] <dmessier> was pulling out rope till he released... we could have sent him to 5000 ft without a step... although he would have been over the next town.. ; )
[22:07:48] <robin__sz> nice
[22:08:02] <dmessier> thats a towed hg launch
[22:08:43] <robin__sz> ive seen 2K up on the PG above Chamonix ... liek being in an express lift
[22:09:15] <robin__sz> the 2K up is fine, its: 1) the sudden way it begins ...
[22:09:34] <robin__sz> 2) the way the front tucks as you fly out of the side
[22:10:08] <robin__sz> you familiar with big mountain thernals? ... centre core going up, outer surface going down?
[22:10:33] <dmessier> never flown BIG mountains... i wish... ; (
[22:10:55] <dmessier> where thers lift theres SINK..
[22:11:03] <robin__sz> true.
[22:11:16] <robin__sz> it just seems more sudden in the mountains
[22:11:44] <dmessier> i deread those conditions in a pg... when i had the option of the hp
[22:11:49] <dmessier> dread
[22:11:55] <robin__sz> and you get the "valley wind" problem in the afternoon
[22:12:05] <robin__sz> you know that one?
[22:12:20] <robin__sz> mountains warm in the sun ...
[22:12:25] <robin__sz> air goes up ...
[22:12:35] <robin__sz> fed from the bottom with cold air ...
[22:12:46] <dmessier> have you studied micro-meteorology at all... ?? what certs do you need to hold there??
[22:13:10] <robin__sz> so in "still" conditions, you discover a 20-30 mph wind coming up the valley floor at 100 feet.
[22:13:13] <robin__sz> me,?
[22:13:42] <robin__sz> I have a proper PPL and a pg. I dont hold any PG certs, I just fly it ...
[22:13:44] <dmessier> inverse gradiant..
[22:14:40] <dmessier> oh really.. hmm we have a seperate national org for hg/pg pilots..
[22:14:50] <robin__sz> we do too.
[22:14:59] <robin__sz> but they have no legal authority
[22:15:09] <robin__sz> they like to think they have, but they dont
[22:15:20] <robin__sz> I ignore them :)
[22:16:17] <dmessier> we are ALLOWED to fly under a few transport CANADA "exceptions" allowing ultralight aircraft to be semi-self regulated...
[22:16:29] <robin__sz> you'll find that under most countries that unpowered flight is actually not regualted much at all
[22:16:58] <robin__sz> I bet if you look at the law, you can fly gliders with no certs ...
[22:17:00] <robin__sz> can here
[22:17:03] <dmessier> its all about sharing the AIRSPACE to them...
[22:17:33] <robin__sz> keep clear of airways and clouds. and airports. and danger areas. and ...
[22:17:48] <dmessier> sure...same here i used to test fly old junk all the time..
[22:18:06] <dmessier> clear to the right
[22:18:08] <robin__sz> and never EVER tell the military you are going to be pg flying in an area
[22:18:34] <robin__sz> because sure as hell, every time we did, we got low flying jets
[22:19:14] <robin__sz> it was in an AIAA, for military, but it seemed to make it worse not better when we warned them
[22:19:42] <dmessier> but our primary instructor flies SAR out of Trenton and he went to 10000 ft last summer then landed on the apron at a nearby airport... 88 km away..
[22:19:51] <robin__sz> ick, the exhausts on theat new Imola replica are DISGUSTING
[22:20:05] <robin__sz> nice
[22:20:31] <dmessier> from a 900' tow...
[22:21:51] <dmessier> hes awesome... he lanches and parks/ seeks.. we launch behind and have radio contact... we've had a few really nice 30 km 3 -4 man flights
[22:25:35] <dmessier> a friend whom i started Hging with started pg last summer... went away to the dominican for 10 days.. and has more hours than me... in 1/10 th the # of flights..
[22:25:57] <dmessier> i started in 1999
[22:26:48] <dmessier> on a new wing whe got 4.75 hrs... and only landed cause it was dark...
[22:28:52] <dmessier> have you seen www.uflyontario.com
[22:29:21] <dmessier> also chk out www.highperspective.com
[22:30:47] <giacus> does anyone know the url of the officila ABBA website (slides, screw etc.) ?
[22:31:31] <dmessier> sorry last link is false... www.flyhigh.com works
[22:31:54] <Jymmm> giacus: No, and it's ABBA, we don't care... really, we don't! =)
[22:32:53] <giacus> Jymmm: I found a new one .. but it isn''t what I seen time ago
[22:33:18] <Jymmm> giacus JUST SAY NO TO ABBA!
[22:33:23] <giacus> why ?
[22:33:30] <Jymmm> giacus JUST SAY NO TO ABBA!
[22:33:36] <giacus> ok
[22:33:40] <giacus> :)
[22:33:41] <Jymmm> =)
[22:41:59] <dmessier> or you'r become the Dancin' Queen
[22:45:33] <Jymmm> giacus just google, google knows everything.
[22:50:43] <Jymmm> Hey stinky!
[22:52:12] <robin__sz> wow ... now .. how much is 1hp?
[22:52:20] <robin__sz> 746W right?
[22:52:30] <robin__sz> so .. how many watts is this then?
[22:52:32] <robin__sz> http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_16013250/.HomePage/__sr_/7d59.jpg?grG6hfEBfCIu2n0m
[22:52:40] <robin__sz> (lower picture)
[22:54:09] <robin__sz> note that it has the very latest drive by wire" features ... the driver is inthe cab, the control system is sitting in the engine bay, behinf the engine :)
[23:05:48] <giacus> 2 days working 20 sec. of video :/
[23:12:24] <A-L-P-H-A> what a good nap.
[23:18:00] <giacus> absolutely
[23:21:33] <A-L-P-H-A> my nap. :)
[23:21:45] <A-L-P-H-A> it was peaceful... nice during the middle of a hot day... in a cool room
[23:23:06] <giacus> :)
[23:23:36] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: 1 hour at night is enough
[23:23:50] <giacus> maybe less ..