#emc | Logs for 2006-05-23

[00:00:13] <giacus> no. I can't recall it
[00:00:16] <DaveF> what is that please?
[00:00:54] <giacus> something like fsck.ext3
[00:01:04] <giacus> but for fat32
[00:01:22] <giacus> there are a bunch of tools abut that
[00:01:35] <DaveF> actually I haven't heard of any of tghose things. I'll google it.
[00:01:40] <DaveF> Thanks.
[00:01:56] <robin_sz> fsck is "file system check" on Linux/Unix
[00:02:37] <robin_sz> I think in windows you just expect it to be broken by default and then by Norton Disk Doctor
[00:02:46] <DaveF> I really need a new drive, but this box is such a piece of crap I don't want to put any more into it. Spent all my dough on the mill & drives.
[00:02:49] <giacus> dosfstools - Utilities to create and check MS-DOS FAT filesystems
[00:03:17] <DaveF> haha. Right re win. Did you check out the video link I posted earlier?
[00:04:03] <robin_sz> mmmm,. no, was busy with my guitar :)
[00:04:11] <DaveF> http://www.devilducky.com/media/28888/
[00:04:43] <DaveF> Go look. It's a hoot. Re Windows etc. About 1 minute.
[00:06:12] <robin_sz> cant seem to play it ...
[00:06:14] <DaveF> That clip was shot at a retirement party for an IBM exec who invented the crtl-alt-del sequence. He gets in a great dig at Bill Gates wjo is sitting right next to him.
[00:08:08] <robin_sz> ok, downloading and trying to play it with Xine ...
[00:08:13] <giacus> it doesnt work for me
[00:08:27] <giacus> but I've some issue in firefox
[00:08:38] <DaveF> robin_sz: on my windows system if you just wait for a few seconds it starts by itself.
[00:08:47] <giacus> this afternoon I played with cinelerra, mixing a bit of tools ..
[00:09:02] <giacus> mplayer can't work right now :(
[00:09:15] <robin_sz> DaveF, thankfully, I dont have a windows box in the house :)
[00:09:40] <jmkasunich> yay robin!
[00:09:42] <DaveF> god for you. I'm trying to get there too... Can't wait.
[00:09:59] <DaveF> good I mean. Well, God too.
[00:11:20] <DaveF> Anyway, they ask him about ctrl-alt-del, and he goes on about the idea a bit, then says, Well I just invented it, But Bill made it famous...
[00:11:44] <giacus> :D
[00:12:00] <DaveF> Then the camera pans to Bill Gates sitting next to him & he's livid. The audience is LOL
[00:12:42] <robin_sz> heh
[00:13:44] <giacus> robin_sz: time to take the bike !
[00:14:01] <giacus> nice and hot day here
[00:14:43] <DaveF> hey giacus, what's cinelerra anyway? Sorry I'm so ignorant.
[00:15:16] <giacus> it's a software driving me crazy :(
[00:15:46] <DaveF> It can be that way.
[00:15:49] <giacus> http://cvs.cinelerra.org/
[00:16:50] <giacus> I had some difficult to get it working on debian testing ..
[00:17:39] <giacus> installing from unofficial mirrors and compiling
[00:17:47] <DaveF> You working on the project?
[00:17:47] <giacus> now playng :)
[00:17:52] <giacus> nah ..
[00:18:19] <giacus> I would like just to learn it!
[00:18:42] <giacus> seems a powerful video editing software
[00:19:07] <DaveF> what's now playing?
[00:19:32] <giacus> attempting to mix multiple audio/video tracks
[00:19:39] <giacus> adding effects
[00:20:36] <giacus> my camera save the video in a bad format for it ..
[00:21:20] <giacus> I have to work a bit converting and extracting audio and video before get ready for cinelerra :(
[00:22:09] <robin_sz> only one decent video editing suite ..
[00:22:17] <robin_sz> Avid :)
[00:22:43] <giacus> I agree
[00:23:45] <robin_sz> at one time, i used to maintain 12 MediaComposer and FIlmComposer suites
[00:24:01] <robin_sz> thats when I began to hate macs :)
[00:24:40] <giacus> oh.. mac should be nice for that
[00:24:55] <robin_sz> thats all the early avid stuff ran on
[00:25:04] <robin_sz> Macs and fast SCSI drives
[00:25:18] <robin_sz> striped usually
[00:25:40] <giacus> I know ..
[00:26:13] <robin_sz> anyway
[00:26:15] <robin_sz> bedtine
[00:26:18] <giacus> Right now, i'm using a P4, 1 gb ram, 256 video, just playng with small files in low resolution
[00:26:18] <robin_sz> later guys
[00:26:24] <giacus> G'night robin_sz
[00:27:13] <DaveF> giacus: Since I'm a total newby at linux, would I be better off to buy a commercial version like red hat or something, or what would you recommend? I don't want to have a huge learning curve to get started with EMC etc.
[00:28:09] <jmkasunich> DaveF: Ubuntu
[00:28:11] <giacus> DaveF: you're talking to the wrong person ..
[00:28:15] <DaveF> I thought maybe the ubuntu live cd might get me going easily.
[00:28:19] <giacus> I'm a newbie too
[00:28:30] <giacus> I just use linux since 1998
[00:28:39] <giacus> but I'm a debian fanatic
[00:28:44] <jmkasunich> newbie!?!
[00:28:52] <DaveF> That's new????
[00:28:54] <giacus> yup.
[00:29:06] <jmkasunich> crazy
[00:29:12] <DaveF> You been asleep for the last 8 years?
[00:29:15] <DaveF> :)
[00:29:25] <giacus> I've an idea of what a Unix like system is ..
[00:29:37] <giacus> you'll never get the time to learn all
[00:29:45] <giacus> just what you need ..
[00:29:59] <giacus> an Linux is dinamic :/
[00:30:07] <giacus> change often ..
[00:30:52] <giacus> I choose debian, because im a free software supporter
[00:30:57] <giacus> just for that
[00:31:07] <giacus> probably Ubuntu is the better choice
[00:31:41] <DaveF> I started in that direction due to the EMC recommendation.
[00:32:03] <DaveF> But I just meant as far as installing etc.
[00:33:08] <DaveF> Well, I have the live cd. Guess I'll go ahead and burn it try it. Then I'll have a better idea what I'm in for.
[00:34:24] <giacus> enjoy it :)
[00:35:24] <DaveF> Thanks. I'm off to see if I can smoke my cnc box. :)
[00:35:31] <DaveF> G'nite -
[00:35:34] <giacus> bye ;)
[00:50:28] <giacus> G'night
[01:56:13] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/emcmotcfg.h: enlarge tc queue to let us read ahead much further
[02:04:09] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: fix ignoring of [TASK]CYCLE_TIME
[02:48:58] <SkunkWorks> cradek: really?
[02:49:07] <cradek> ?
[02:49:23] <SkunkWorks> read ahead more than one segment?
[02:49:43] <cradek> still only blends adjacent segments, but it's important to have many of them ready
[02:49:53] <SkunkWorks> ah
[02:50:17] <SkunkWorks> how big was it before?
[02:50:26] <cradek> 200 I think
[02:50:35] <cradek> the real problem was it would read at most 10 segments/sec from the gcode
[02:50:45] <cradek> so if your program used more than that, it would stutter
[02:50:53] <SkunkWorks> interesting
[02:51:16] <cradek> when running the spiral very fast, I saw stuttering in the center again, leading me to track this problem down
[02:51:29] <SkunkWorks> nice work - again.
[02:51:34] <cradek> now in the first few seconds, it will read the whole program
[02:52:15] <cradek> if I had some cam software, I'd try some heavy duty contouring - I bet it's working well now.
[02:52:56] <SkunkWorks> I could look - I might have some files at work that are huge and short line segment.
[02:53:09] <SkunkWorks> made up of short line segments
[02:53:16] <cradek> ok, if you think of it that would be nice
[02:55:19] <SkunkWorks> did jepler find his memory card and reader?
[02:56:01] <jepler> not yet
[02:56:06] <jepler> I figure it's gone
[02:56:31] <SkunkWorks> that sucks. did you ask roland?
[02:56:56] <jepler> nope, I don't know how to contact him
[02:57:43] <SkunkWorks> http://www.cardinaleng.com/index.html
[03:00:35] <jepler> aha
[03:00:49] <jepler> I'll do that after cradek tells me he's sure it's not in a box of his stuff.
[03:01:33] <cradek> sorry, still haven't unpacked everything
[03:07:54] <SkunkWorks> I was able finally to put a ground area on eagle. it was exactly how cradek explained it. ;)
[03:08:10] <SkunkWorks> just had to name it GNDA
[03:08:17] <SkunkWorks> it did the rest
[03:08:30] <SkunkWorks> polyarea
[03:14:35] <fenn> perfectly obvious
[03:19:32] <SkunkWorks> right ;)
[03:25:07] <fenn> * fenn really hates usemod.. have i mentioned that?
[03:31:20] <A-L-P-H-A> i hate paypal... does that count?
[03:34:38] <SkunkWorks> I hate imaginary numbers
[03:35:39] <A-L-P-H-A> but it's just an 'i'
[03:35:59] <A-L-P-H-A> (-1)^0.5 :)
[03:36:17] <A-L-P-H-A> i think i would hate imaginary letters more, if they existed.
[03:36:27] <SkunkWorks> ;)
[03:41:26] <fenn> like fnord
[03:52:03] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, so did you kill JFK or Hoffa?
[03:52:14] <A-L-P-H-A> where'd you put JFKs brain or Hoffa's body?
[03:53:18] <fenn> they are in the basement of the rockefeller center and the scottish rite cathedral in DC
[03:58:11] <SkunkWorks> ok - my battery is almost dead - night
[05:36:59] <fenn> i might as well mention i hate joomla while i'm at it
[05:51:39] <alex_joni> fenn: why is that?
[05:57:36] <fenn> stupid thing wont update pages after i change them, and its even worse than usemod
[05:57:42] <fenn> as far as usability
[06:06:49] <alex_joni> I had absolutely no issues with it so far
[06:06:54] <alex_joni> what are you trying to update?
[06:07:27] <alex_joni> and what browser are you using?
[06:10:04] <fenn> the front page
[06:10:18] <fenn> the source is right but it just doesnt show it
[06:10:27] <alex_joni> what browser?
[06:10:36] <fenn> konqueror, what does that matter?
[06:10:44] <fenn> it shows up right if i click "preview"
[06:10:51] <alex_joni> konqueror does it's things bad sometimes.. let me look
[06:11:01] <fenn> pff
[06:11:06] <fenn> joomla does its bad things sometimes
[06:11:14] <alex_joni> what are you using to edit? frontend or backend?
[06:11:35] <alex_joni> fenn: write a better CMS and I'll consider it
[06:11:38] <alex_joni> or send a patch
[06:11:39] <fenn> well i log in and click on static content manager
[06:11:55] <fenn> then homepage (which now has a lock next to it??)
[06:12:10] <fenn> now click preview and compare to www.linuxcnc.org
[06:12:10] <alex_joni> it has because you didn't save alright
[06:12:22] <alex_joni> ok, if you go to Admin, that's backend
[06:12:35] <alex_joni> you can also log-in on the documentation page, then you can edit any page (frontend)
[06:15:10] <alex_joni> there is System->Global checkin
[06:15:51] <fenn> ok it updates correctly with the frontend
[06:17:36] <fenn> how can i make it not checked out and update the other pages i changed?
[06:17:55] <fenn> although actually i dont remember changing them
[06:18:21] <fenn> nevermind
[06:18:35] <fenn> it doesnt like it when you press "back' and go through the editing page
[06:22:27] <alex_joni> right
[06:22:36] <alex_joni> there is the Global Checkin on the Admin interface
[06:22:52] <alex_joni> but you loose any unsaved changes.. which you probably already lost
[06:22:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be back tonight
[06:25:13] <fenn> it's all good now
[06:51:57] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/emc2/gcode.lyx: added a bit on gcode best practices
[07:15:21] <fenn> stupid joomla
[07:15:27] <fenn> * fenn grumbles
[11:25:18] <giacus> websys: you around ?
[11:27:43] <giacus> added a link to your nick and a pic pointing to synergy: http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc.html. If any (c) issue occour please let me know, I'll remove it.
[11:28:29] <A-L-P-H-A> swpadnos does still come in here right?
[11:29:04] <giacus> last seen 2 days ago.
[11:35:49] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks
[12:18:29] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: he may still be driving home from fest. his drive was one of the longer ones.
[12:28:23] <SkunkWorks> the front page of linuxcnc.ord
[12:28:26] <SkunkWorks> oops
[12:28:33] <SkunkWorks> lets try that again
[12:28:47] <SkunkWorks> the home page of linuxncn.org changed - cool.
[12:29:02] <SkunkWorks> neat picture too
[12:29:32] <SkunkWorks> or has it been that way for a while (I am not one to notice things like that for weeks)
[12:29:53] <jepler> yeah, the very front page has recently been reorganized
[12:30:26] <jepler> it still needs to have extra words taken out
[12:30:50] <jepler> "We are making the transition to the GPL license"?
[12:32:03] <SkunkWorks> did cradek get on the ball and look through the rest of his stuff?
[12:32:06] <SkunkWorks> :)
[12:32:15] <jepler> not that I've heard
[12:33:15] <jepler> fenn: thanks for working on the web pages and docs
[12:33:55] <SkunkWorks> jepler: when do you think the jog feedrate slider will be in the ubuntu update?
[12:34:42] <jepler> SkunkWorks: not soon
[12:34:58] <SkunkWorks> no hurry - Is it in head?
[12:35:01] <jepler> yes
[12:35:23] <SkunkWorks> ok - thanks
[12:36:35] <SkunkWorks> oh - look there is a last updated at the bottom of the linuxcnc.org page :O
[12:37:00] <jepler> bbl
[15:19:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/setup.py: remove redundant commit
[15:20:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/i18n/se.po: new translation
[15:25:25] <K4ts> hello
[15:32:04] <giacus`> giacus` is now known as giacus
[15:46:23] <chinamill> Hola
[15:54:52] <K4ts> hola
[15:54:55] <K4ts> chinamill:
[15:56:16] <chinamill> its quiet today.
[16:13:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: show when an axis is at its limit
[16:13:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: show when an axis is at its limit
[17:16:09] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/roland.JPG
[17:16:50] <SkunkWorks> front and center roland (owner of cardial engineering where the workshop was held)
[17:17:26] <SkunkWorks> dave_e to the left and steve stallings and cradek to the right (side view)
[17:28:54] <SkunkWorks> cardinal
[17:41:49] <SkunkWorks> cradeks mill http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/cadekmill.JPG
[18:06:56] <cradek> SkunkWorks: these are good photos
[18:08:30] <cradek> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/cncworkshopemc.JPG
[18:08:57] <cradek> haha, 60% bearded; I wonder what the percentage in the general population is
[18:10:13] <jepler> much less
[18:15:38] <cradek> has anyone figured out who the guy is next to me?
[18:16:54] <giacus> jepler ?
[18:17:01] <jepler> no, it's not me
[18:17:08] <giacus> :)
[18:17:21] <giacus> no idea
[18:17:21] <cradek> no, I think I'd recognize jepler
[18:17:41] <giacus> you, not me ..
[18:18:20] <giacus> I never seen jepler in face
[18:18:26] <giacus> he's anonimous :)
[18:18:41] <jepler> I'm in that photo, though
[18:18:46] <jepler> it's not hard to find a photo of me
[18:18:50] <fenn> SkunkWorks: do you have the casting picture that shows the stream of metal in the fire?
[18:19:27] <giacus> jepler: I know, kidding :)
[18:20:07] <giacus> well, and who is that guy ?
[18:20:52] <jepler> cradek: he's not one of the guys who had strong opinions on threading, is he?
[18:21:16] <cradek> no, I don't think I ever talked to him
[18:21:16] <giacus> uhm ..
[18:24:33] <SkunkWorks> fenn: you mean this one? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fennpour.JPG
[18:25:08] <fenn> no there were about 5 pictures like that, and in one or two of them you could see the metal
[18:25:28] <giacus> what is a barbecue ?
[18:25:46] <fenn> um, in what context?
[18:26:45] <jepler> giacus: food cooked outdoors, often with a spicy sauce
[18:26:52] <jepler> giacus: on a flame or coals
[18:26:59] <jepler> it can also refer to the sauce itself
[18:27:08] <giacus> was you rousting sausages ? O_O
[18:27:20] <giacus> and beer ?
[18:27:21] <jepler> rousting and roasting are two different things
[18:27:22] <giacus> wow
[18:27:29] <SkunkWorks> fenn: hold on
[18:28:06] <giacus> jepler: yup, I sell you a vocal :P
[18:29:11] <giacus> yes, roast*
[18:29:51] <giacus> nice stuff also for chestnuts
[18:30:10] <giacus> with a bit of red wine
[18:30:45] <giacus> a bit expensive for fuel I guess..
[18:31:23] <SkunkWorks> that guy had a very distinct southern accent. seemed like a nice guy. bit of a know it all - I hope I don't come off that way.
[18:31:53] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn1.JPG
[18:32:00] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn2.JPG
[18:32:03] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn3.JPG
[18:32:06] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn4.JPG
[18:32:10] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn5.JPG
[18:32:13] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/fenn6.JPG
[18:32:23] <SkunkWorks> fenn:
[18:37:05] <fenn> thanks
[18:37:26] <jepler> cradek: by connecting a different value to axis.0.motor-pos-fb I could verify that axis shows a soft limit too
[18:37:30] <jepler> they look the same
[18:37:40] <cradek> jepler: great
[18:40:25] <jepler> what do we want to do about a keyboard shortcut for feed rate override increase and decrease?
[18:40:48] <jepler> what does tkemc do?
[18:40:49] <cradek> we could use 1-0 but only while running
[18:41:03] <cradek> I think 1-0 change depending on the mode you're in
[18:41:19] <cradek> or `-0 or something
[18:41:51] <jepler> * jepler sucks in air through his teeth
[18:41:56] <jepler> I thought about that too
[18:42:19] <fenn> isnt it already +/-?
[18:42:33] <jepler> fenn: no, that's zoom
[18:42:35] <jepler> bind AutoBindings <KeyPress-1> {emc_feed_override 10}
[18:42:41] <jepler> changing the meaning when in 'auto' is what tkemc does
[18:42:55] <cradek> jmk and I looked for something in the stat buffer that says "the machine is busy doing something" but there doesn't seem to be one.
[18:43:39] <jepler> we use this in axis to find if it's OK to switch to manual mode:
[18:43:40] <jepler> def manual_ok(do_poll=True):
[18:43:40] <jepler> if do_poll: s.poll()
[18:43:40] <jepler> if s.task_state != emc.STATE_ON: return False
[18:43:40] <jepler> return s.interp_state == emc.INTERP_IDLE
[18:43:59] <jepler> I don't know if it's the right test in this case
[18:44:26] <cradek> we wanted to know even if it's currently jogging for instance
[18:44:34] <cradek> or running an mdi command
[18:44:59] <jepler> oh, hm
[18:45:00] <cradek> but sorry, that's a tangent
[18:45:13] <jepler> I think manual_ok may be what I want in this case
[18:45:29] <cradek> looking at my keyboard I see home/end and insert/delete that could be some kind of up/down
[18:45:59] <fenn> f/F
[18:46:12] <jepler> not home/end
[18:46:17] <cradek> ;'
[18:46:24] <jepler> * jepler sucks air through his teeth again
[18:46:33] <jepler> even [] is bad for foreign keyboards ,. probably is too.
[18:46:37] <cradek> the keyboard is just about used up
[18:46:38] <fenn> what are you some kind of air-whale? :)
[18:46:43] <cradek> ,. is already jogspeed
[18:46:48] <cradek> [] is alread A jog
[18:47:00] <jepler> heck, digits are. the damned french put the digits on shifted keys, and their stupid non-english letters on the unshifted top row.
[18:47:11] <jepler> I know we already use [] and .,, I'm just saying they're bad too
[18:47:22] <cradek> ok
[18:47:53] <cradek> we need full latin-15 keyboards with about 200 keys
[18:48:50] <fenn> does keystick compile on anyone else's systems?
[18:49:02] <cradek> yes, I've used it recently
[18:49:04] <fenn> i see the entry in the makefile but no .o file anywhere
[18:49:16] <cradek> configure probably has to find curses-dev or somesuch
[18:49:59] <cradek> I'm not at the right machine to check, but it does build and run if you get the right libraries
[18:50:50] <cradek> you might have to fight a bit of bitrot regarding terminal settings if you want to run it on the console
[18:51:07] <cradek> and also emc's occasional spewing of a string that messes up the display
[18:51:16] <fenn> yes it did that before
[18:51:24] <cradek> but in an xterm it runs great
[18:51:29] <fenn> hmm ncurses-devel is already the newest version
[18:51:48] <cradek> check the configure output, I bet it will say something
[18:53:08] <fenn> checking ncurses.h usability... yes
[18:53:08] <fenn> checking ncurses.h presence... yes
[18:53:08] <fenn> checking for ncurses.h... yes
[18:53:08] <fenn> checking for main in -lncurses... yes
[18:53:59] <cradek> hmm
[18:54:45] <cradek> # ncurses support for keystick
[18:54:45] <cradek> KEYSTICKLIBS = -lncurses
[18:54:45] <cradek> HAVE_NCURSES = yes
[18:54:51] <cradek> (in Makefile.inc)
[18:55:34] <cradek> -rwxr-xr-x 1 chris chris 197182 2006-05-23 13:56 keystick
[18:56:34] <fenn> oh i was looking in the wrong place
[18:56:43] <fenn> its in src/objects/emc/
[18:56:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py:
[18:56:50] <CIA-8> add keyboard shortcuts for feed override: the keys `, 1, ..., 9, 0 set feed
[18:56:50] <CIA-8> override from 0% to 100%. When not running a program, the first keys still
[18:56:50] <CIA-8> select the corresponding axis. NEEDS TO BE DOCUMENTED.
[18:57:23] <fenn> arg now its in bin too
[18:57:34] <fenn> * fenn checks for gremlins
[19:08:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: document feed override keys and fix them to work better
[19:14:48] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/TODO: done
[20:08:09] <alex_joni> the gremlins got him
[20:08:18] <cradek> hi alex
[20:08:26] <alex_joni> hi chris.. looong day today
[20:08:33] <cradek> did you just get home?
[20:08:41] <alex_joni> an hour ago
[20:08:51] <alex_joni> managed to eat smthg and take a bath
[20:08:56] <alex_joni> we're having a show this week
[20:09:05] <alex_joni> I set up a booth & robot today
[20:09:14] <cradek> fun
[20:09:19] <cradek> you'll have to take a photo again
[20:09:27] <alex_joni> I will tomorrow :)
[20:09:57] <cradek> ok
[20:10:14] <alex_joni> I built a big booth today :D
[20:10:22] <alex_joni> 2x2m but 5m tall
[20:10:33] <alex_joni> using some kind of alu profiles
[20:11:24] <alex_joni> http://www.setbuild.co.za/images/Surgesound_1.jpg <- something like this
[20:11:49] <cradek> looks high-tech
[20:15:43] <alex_joni> it's a very nice system (called mezzo)
[20:23:39] <SkunkWorks> I told my father that everyone liked the pictures - he says if you take enough - you get a few good ones ;)
[20:24:08] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: that's one of the first rule in taking pictures
[20:51:34] <giacus> darn xorg upgrade
[20:51:42] <giacus> again ..
[20:52:01] <giacus> * giacus lock Xorg package once time for all
[20:52:19] <giacus> and damn ati !
[20:52:47] <giacus> I want to downgrade to Xfree86
[20:53:11] <giacus> any 2 month a battle to reinstall the drivers
[20:53:39] <alex_joni> g'night all
[20:53:47] <giacus> Night alex_joni :)
[20:54:36] <giacus> * giacus put Xorg in the blacklist
[20:54:40] <giacus> :P
[20:55:05] <fenn> * fenn is wondering how to open a new virtual terminal without root privileges
[20:55:36] <giacus> su user ?
[20:55:48] <fenn> its part of a script
[20:56:18] <fenn> right now, keystick wants to run in an xterm window, but the whole point of keystick is that it should work without X
[20:56:24] <fenn> but xterm is an X application, so its fubared
[20:56:49] <fenn> but.. if you run keystick in the same terminal as emc you get error messages all over the screen and cant see anything
[20:57:12] <fenn> so i'm trying to open keystick in a new virtual terminal somehow
[20:58:03] <alex_joni> fenn: export TERM=xterm should work on almost any console
[20:58:41] <cradek> fenn: by setting DEBUG=0 you may be able to get rid of the messages
[20:58:46] <cradek> any that still appear are bugs IMO
[20:59:32] <fenn> yes pesky ones like "cant do that in MDI mode"
[21:01:26] <cradek> you are right about it being bogus to require xterm, but it was the easiest way to get it functional (and I use it that way sometimes)
[21:05:39] <fenn> for some reason when i run keystick.ini on this machine it closes immediately as soon as the xterm opens
[21:05:58] <SkunkWorks> fenn: where you able to get the parrallel port working on the touch screen computer?
[21:06:09] <jepler> openvt? (on fedora)
[21:06:12] <jepler> not sure if it needs root
[21:06:16] <fenn> it needs root
[21:06:32] <fenn> i could just sudo openvt i guess
[21:06:37] <jepler> I'm not surprised
[21:06:38] <fenn> * fenn tries that
[21:07:35] <jepler> if you could arrange to own /dev/tty9 yourself I think it would work
[21:11:58] <cradek> fenn: sim/keystick.ini runs fine for me as-is
[21:14:39] <K4ts> hello
[21:18:55] <giacus> ciao
[21:20:19] <robin_sz> hi
[21:21:33] <anonimasu> hello
[21:21:56] <robin_sz> does it hang well?
[21:22:06] <anonimasu> tired
[21:22:33] <SkunkWorks> reading the conversation between jon_e and jmk on the dev list is full of a lot of good info. quite the read.
[21:22:56] <robin_sz> yep, both as knoweldgable as it gets
[21:23:09] <robin_sz> * robin_sz can't spol
[21:23:28] <SkunkWorks> join the club
[21:24:36] <SkunkWorks> hey robin - is dr who still running over there? When we where in ireland last year there where preview for a new dr. I see they are running them on scifi over here. is it still running currently?
[21:25:09] <SkunkWorks> sorry - just a random thought
[21:27:56] <robin_sz> mmm
[21:28:05] <robin_sz> dunno, thats a TV series right?
[21:28:26] <robin_sz> im joking ...
[21:28:39] <robin_sz> these days I dont have a TV, so I dont know if its still on
[21:29:26] <SkunkWorks> I guess I could research ;)
[21:31:00] <SkunkWorks> bbl
[21:59:07] <dmessier> hi all... ; )
[21:59:14] <anonimasu> 'yawns*
[21:59:41] <dmessier> wiki has an awesome v22 osprey WRECK from 1991
[21:59:46] <dmessier> .avi
[22:14:59] <fenn> wild
[22:17:27] <dmessier> just BAD
[22:21:11] <fenn> yeah i dont really see any way to fix the problems with oscillation and retain maneuverability
[22:24:17] <dmessier> its been done... they ARE deployed now...
[22:25:40] <dmessier> 2 pilot + 1 computer TRYING to fly the same airplane was what i made of that heli/plane - WRECK
[22:26:13] <giacus> hey dmessier
[22:26:26] <dmessier> oui.. or ci
[22:26:32] <giacus> I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky :)
[22:26:41] <giacus> nice
[22:26:54] <fenn> i believe i can touch the pavement at 150+ mph
[22:26:55] <dmessier> we have... ... just smole... ; )
[22:27:01] <dmessier> smile
[22:27:27] <giacus> fenn: didnt you seen the video ?
[22:27:35] <giacus> funny
[22:27:52] <fenn> i dont know which video you're talking about
[22:28:14] <dmessier> i feel for the oilots who THOUGHT they had it under control... after the 1'st bump
[22:28:46] <fenn> oh, its just that thing on the end of the engine nacelle, its not important
[22:28:53] <dmessier> pilots... ( sorry fingers are tir'de
[22:29:23] <dmessier> 11.4 M in diameter.. 38 ft...
[22:30:20] <giacus> fenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVq5F5GU0N0&search=I%20believe%20I%20can%20fly
[22:30:21] <dmessier> once 1 prop hit.. ALL power was put to the other.... you can hear the prop wind up
[22:30:58] <giacus> dmessier: I suppose they where not using win98 to fly ..
[22:31:43] <dmessier> i doubt it
[22:31:49] <giacus> :D
[22:32:34] <dmessier> i have 2 sons i like alot... love the some times... been offered 3 trampolines... still dont have 1
[22:35:36] <dmessier> thats why i like flying para & hang - gliders... ; ) no unwanted powered excursions into FUNLAND
[22:36:43] <anonimasu> hm
[22:36:52] <robin_sz> the trouble with paragliders is ...
[22:37:00] <robin_sz> one minuteyou are flying along ...
[22:37:19] <robin_sz> next minute you look up and instead of a wing ... there is this big mess
[22:37:46] <dmessier> yup... sucks.... in NO time eh..
[22:38:01] <anonimasu> hm, you need stiff wires ;)
[22:38:11] <robin_sz> nah .. thats WORSE
[22:38:21] <anonimasu> lol, really stiff..
[22:38:29] <robin_sz> I had a Ailes d k pantair ...
[22:38:33] <dmessier> i have 2 broken wrists to remember me.. of a winch operator with a grudge..
[22:38:47] <robin_sz> carbon fibre booms inthe leading edge ...
[22:39:00] <robin_sz> now, when that tucked, it stayed tucked
[22:39:17] <dmessier> sharp wing... dont fly nearme...
[22:39:51] <dmessier> it would tangle more than tuck though right??
[22:39:57] <robin_sz> mmm,
[22:40:08] <robin_sz> no, the front would tuck
[22:40:25] <robin_sz> then then sorta deflate in the middle
[22:40:33] <dmessier> and would NOT stay assym.?
[22:41:02] <robin_sz> and then just sit there
[22:41:19] <robin_sz> I never had an assymetric tuck on it .. but I heard of people that did
[22:41:34] <robin_sz> and they just spiralled away :)
[22:41:54] <dmessier> not enuf SPINE
[22:42:18] <robin_sz> silly design really, the LE came forward about a metre
[22:42:34] <robin_sz> one of the first gliders with a speed bar
[22:42:42] <dmessier> needs more ark - sorter outer lines... decreased area might make it quite fast
[22:43:00] <dmessier> 1 M??
[22:43:09] <dmessier> ; o
[22:43:37] <dmessier> no need for SPEED on 1 m speedbar travel...
[22:44:30] <dmessier> i understand speed bar mechs...
[22:45:10] <dmessier> but it WOULd add some axial stability
[22:47:09] <dmessier> but what do I know..
[22:52:00] <dmessier> i fly on NATIVE messier landing gear.
[22:52:12] <robin_sz> basically, tipping the nose down 200mm on an unstable glider was not such a great plan
[22:53:02] <dmessier> no doubt...the bad old days... ..
[22:54:02] <dmessier> ive had guys bring me old rogalo tow kites.." whats it worth"??
[22:55:34] <dmessier> we had 1 in the rafters of the barn to keep pigion shit off the gliders set up under it
[23:09:31] <fenn> gee i wonder how i managed to break it this time
[23:09:33] <fenn> RTAPI: ERR: clock_set_period: -2009260032 nsecs, out of range
[23:09:38] <fenn> when inserting motmod.ko
[23:13:11] <fenn> i did something to cause this error without recompiling, and it persists across reboots
[23:17:20] <robin_sz> dmessier, old wings are just too dangerous compared to todays wings ... and the modern ones are faster and slippier too, so the value of an old wing is glose to zero
[23:18:26] <fenn> hmm now i get a bunch of undefined symbols when compiling
[23:18:37] <fenn> in rtapi.ko
[23:40:19] <fenn> gah why didnt i pick an easier project to work on
[23:50:47] <giacus> mm take a pause
[23:52:28] <giacus> * giacus give a beer to fenn :)
[23:53:24] <fenn> * fenn looks at dvd burners on ebay