#emc | Logs for 2006-05-20

[00:00:08] <giacus> nice job
[00:06:17] <alex_joni> yeah, but poor job on the fotos ;)
[00:06:25] <alex_joni> fenn-fest: when's your birthday?
[00:09:15] <K4ts> night
[00:09:30] <K4ts> ciao alex_joni
[00:10:51] <giacus> G'nigh K4ts
[00:15:31] <giacus> stats: Rayh - seen 6 days ago - "brb" ...
[00:15:36] <giacus> :D
[00:29:43] <giacus> G'night all
[01:38:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni drops a needle
[01:39:26] <skkwrk_galesburg> hey alex. Fun at the fest.
[01:40:28] <skkwrk_galesburg> skkwrk_galesburg is now known as SkunkWorks
[01:40:35] <alex_joni> really?
[01:40:59] <SkunkWorks> I can't stay up as late as the emc guys though :) I don't think they are human.
[01:41:09] <alex_joni> 04:45 < SkunkWorks> I can't stay up as late as the emc guys though :) I don't
[01:41:11] <alex_joni> think they are human.
[01:41:44] <SkunkWorks> it is 8:47 here
[01:41:51] <SkunkWorks> I pass out at 10:00 :)
[01:42:00] <alex_joni> me too.. but am ;)
[01:42:06] <alex_joni> AM
[01:42:38] <alex_joni> it's almost 5AM here.. still kinda fresh
[01:42:45] <SkunkWorks> did you get the pictures of the mazak running?
[01:42:56] <alex_joni> from fenn? yeah
[01:43:06] <SkunkWorks> cool huh
[01:43:10] <alex_joni> yu
[01:43:14] <alex_joni> yup
[01:43:25] <alex_joni> sorry.. my ssh is laggy ;)
[01:43:28] <SkunkWorks> the wheels are turning :)
[01:45:17] <alex_joni> turrent?
[01:45:23] <alex_joni> turret I mean
[01:45:26] <SkunkWorks> I met fenn, Jepler, rayh, cradek, jonE, roland, steveP to name a few.
[01:45:35] <SkunkWorks> turret? you mean tool changer?
[01:45:38] <alex_joni> yup
[01:45:47] <SkunkWorks> almost - jmk was working on it
[01:45:59] <alex_joni> then it's as good as done;)
[01:46:16] <alex_joni> sounds like quite a crowd there.. too bad I missed it
[01:46:23] <SkunkWorks> I only got a few people mixed up while I was there.
[01:46:30] <SkunkWorks> next year?
[01:46:43] <alex_joni> hope so
[01:46:57] <SkunkWorks> got to see the thread cutting
[01:48:18] <SkunkWorks> sat in on mach demo. I still like emc :)
[01:49:06] <alex_joni> just because? or any reason to say that?
[01:52:07] <SkunkWorks> honestly - It seems powerfull - I just don't like the interface.
[01:52:32] <SkunkWorks> I am hooked on axis
[01:52:53] <alex_joni> I agree
[01:52:55] <SkunkWorks> very busy
[02:11:00] <fester> this is only a test.
[02:11:51] <SkunkWorks> did ray do a hit and run?
[02:45:02] <SkunkWorks> night
[02:47:45] <alex_joni> g'night all
[04:09:10] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (6 files): misc ladder logic and HAL work - tool unclamp, feedhold, interlocking, spindle stuff
[04:48:11] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/modmath.c: changed underscores to hyphens in hal names
[06:32:29] <cradek> g28
[06:32:34] <cradek> haha oops
[07:32:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.h tp.c):
[07:32:44] <CIA-8> an "obvious" way to improve blends a lot. spiral looks good now.
[07:32:44] <CIA-8> needs more testing.
[07:58:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: fix previous fix to work right with feed override
[11:37:47] <Bo^Dick> i've got the feeling that stepper motors commonly have an inductance of about 3mH. i've also heard that the pwm frequency of stepper drivers are about 20kHz
[11:37:58] <Bo^Dick> am i totally wrong?
[11:39:19] <Bo^Dick> is that pretty much how it is?
[12:46:39] <Bo^Dick> hi
[12:47:10] <Guest522> hi
[12:51:45] <alex_joni> morning
[12:53:17] <SkunkWorks> morning
[12:53:50] <SkunkWorks> Hi - Bo^Dick
[12:55:05] <SkunkWorks> another beautiful day here
[12:58:34] <Bo^Dick> i've figured out that the standard pwm frequency of 20kHz is only suitable for the slow decay-mode
[13:57:58] <Bo^Dick> it's confirmed!
[13:58:25] <Bo^Dick> 20kHz is too slow when the fast decay-mode is used in stepper drivers
[13:58:43] <Bo^Dick> this should be the situation for geckodrives as well!
[13:59:35] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (5 files): toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
[13:59:36] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/iotask/ioControl.cc: toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
[13:59:36] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/modmath.c: toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
[14:00:15] <Bo^Dick> i guess some of you use geckodrives?
[14:07:59] <jepler> not me personally but here at cnc workshop I saw some machines using them.
[14:11:04] <jepler> I watched Steve Stallings talk several people out of buying his gecko board not because they're innately bad, but because they were overpowered and too expensive compared to the machines the people want to run (desktop mills)
[14:13:33] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (demo_mazak.hal demo_mazak.ini): fixed a sign problem, now the spindle turns the right direction ;-)
[14:14:13] <Bo^Dick> that's probably very true
[14:14:15] <jepler> test version of the jog speed control for axis: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/places.tcl
[14:14:39] <jepler> cradek: ^^ try this out if you can
[14:14:53] <cradek> trying
[14:15:07] <jepler> juist "wish" it
[14:15:11] <jepler> just
[14:15:15] <cradek> right
[14:15:17] <jepler> * jepler showers
[14:15:52] <cradek> that looks great
[14:15:53] <Bo^Dick> i can easily prove that 20kHz isn't suitable for the fast decay-mode: http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/comparison.gif
[14:15:58] <cradek> I should shower too
[14:22:17] <jepler> or that there's a bug in your simulator or a bug in your model or that you're misinterpreting the result
[14:24:03] <Bo^Dick> well the lower image clearly shows the inefficiency of having 20kHz at the fast decay-mode
[14:24:43] <Bo^Dick> this is precisely why i'd like to know how gecko's do it
[14:24:58] <Bo^Dick> do they really use fast decay and 20kHz?
[14:25:04] <Bo^Dick> i strongly doubt so
[14:42:27] <jepler> so buy one and reverse-engineer it if that is legal to do in the country where you reside.
[15:02:59] <dmessier> hi all..
[15:03:43] <Bo^Dick> i didn't mean that of course
[15:36:49] <alex_joni> has anyone used software raid1?
[15:38:21] <chinamill> I have fooled around with it... (just a little)
[15:38:38] <dmessier> not i
[15:40:47] <K4ts> ciao
[15:40:52] <K4ts> hello
[15:41:03] <alex_joni> chinamill: any idea how to change the IDE speeds..
[15:56:44] <dmessier> any one use GAIM chat
[15:57:02] <chinamill> alex_joni: no
[15:57:18] <chinamill> Hola
[15:59:41] <A-L-P-H-A> dmessier... what's going on?
[15:59:51] <A-L-P-H-A> dmessier... what's the prospect of jobs?
[16:06:34] <dmessier> could you pass as a maintenance manager... ??
[16:07:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm too young looking to do that.
[16:07:54] <dmessier> so am i
[16:08:18] <dmessier> again especially... i was 20 the last time i did that job
[16:08:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm 27... I look ~20... maybe a little older than 20.
[16:08:55] <A-L-P-H-A> 27 in a month
[16:09:41] <dmessier> have to know and understand cnc machines... whats your paperwork say you are??
[16:10:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm... a programmer/database guy by work... I've got a B.Sc in Mathematical Sciences... I've got a post graduate certification for Forensic Accounting (accounting and computer related
[16:10:48] <A-L-P-H-A> )
[16:10:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got my own CNC lathe and mill?
[16:11:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I know how to code gcode by hand.
[16:11:11] <dmessier> i just got Xnap running ont the puppy linux on laptop... HURRAY...
[16:12:02] <dmessier> sounds like you might be able to pull it off... lol
[16:12:53] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[16:13:03] <A-L-P-H-A> whens' the fireworks? Sunday Night? or Monday Night?
[16:14:08] <dmessier> where.. cne are sun and mon.. ashbridges bay i think are sun
[16:14:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[16:14:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I just heard yesterday that "the beaches" is being renamed to "the beach"
[16:14:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I was like WTF... are you serious... and my buddy was.
[16:14:52] <dmessier> thats a bichc
[16:15:50] <A-L-P-H-A> appearantly there was a low turn out to the vote to change things... 60% voted yes.. 40% voted no...
[16:15:53] <alex_joni> hi guys
[16:16:39] <A-L-P-H-A> hey AJ
[16:16:44] <dmessier> the city is going to the BIRDS
[16:17:08] <dmessier> who kno's how to config GAIM??
[16:17:16] <alex_joni> dmessier: what's there to configure?
[16:18:58] <A-L-P-H-A> dmessier, uh... it's not hard at all... hit control-a add an account or two
[16:18:59] <A-L-P-H-A> done
[16:19:56] <dmessier> what server... just irc.freenode.net???
[16:20:13] <alex_joni> IRC, irc.freenode.net
[16:21:24] <A-L-P-H-A> what's with the geckodrive G-Rex G100 now?
[16:21:35] <A-L-P-H-A> how would I use that with emc?
[16:21:37] <dmessier> still no go
[16:25:53] <dmessier> ok i got a freenode server i think... but no channel options... ; (
[16:26:16] <dmess> do im an idiot
[16:26:36] <dmess> this seem VERY nice...
[16:27:24] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, ever going to the pickering flea market?
[16:27:36] <dmess> once in a while..
[16:28:43] <dmess> trying this out
[16:29:12] <dmess> a;)
[16:29:52] <dmess> 8-|)
[16:30:09] <dmess> sorry... im done playin
[16:30:51] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A puts dmess in the corner for a time out
[16:32:16] <dmess> but..... but.... ok
[16:32:35] <A-L-P-H-A> 10 mintues... not another word... or I'll make it 20!
[16:32:39] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
[16:33:12] <dmess> i wanna set up a hdd free machine for my son... his big NEED is msn..
[16:36:47] <dmess> i just downloaded CLASSICAL GAS... by masin williams.... AWESOME tune...
[16:41:21] <robin_sz> meep?
[16:41:38] <giacus`> hello
[16:41:50] <dmess> bon jour
[16:42:30] <robin_sz> so ... another busy week
[16:42:43] <giacus`> dmess: need to run msn on Linux ?
[16:42:50] <robin_sz> think I found myself a nice little robot weld cell for not too much cash
[16:43:19] <robin_sz> cell, powersource, robot, all the gear and the PLC etc for 5K
[16:44:22] <dmess> my son does...
[16:44:35] <giacus`> bitlbee.org
[16:44:49] <giacus`> or gaim, amsn etc..
[16:44:59] <robin_sz> I never figured out what msn was ...
[16:45:13] <robin_sz> thought it was just a search portal and news service?
[16:45:25] <giacus`> microsoft network
[16:45:42] <giacus`> Istant messenger
[16:45:47] <robin_sz> oh, right
[16:45:52] <dmess> msm... sorry..
[16:46:02] <giacus`> oh.. :)
[16:46:03] <dmess> micro soft messenger
[16:46:12] <robin_sz> like skype then?
[16:46:35] <dmess> well no phone... but voice msgs...
[16:46:43] <giacus`> similar to that but using proprietary protocol of course
[16:46:44] <robin_sz> so, just irc then?
[16:47:03] <dmess> skype seems cool...basically... buddy list...
[16:47:12] <robin_sz> skype is cool,
[16:47:13] <giacus`> most peoples have that problem migrating to linux, having ols msn accounts ..
[16:47:29] <dmess> GAIM support it and yahoo messenger too
[16:47:29] <giacus`> I like jabber too
[16:48:06] <dmess> iv not tried it .. but it is supported as is ICQ
[16:48:07] <K4ts> drin drin giacus
[16:48:11] <robin_sz> ive tried to write Jabber applications from time to time .. but the XML usually annoys me in the end
[16:48:21] <K4ts> :-)
[16:48:26] <giacus`> I also have an old msn account, using bitlblee.orc on irc right now
[16:48:36] <giacus`> but have no file transfer support
[16:48:51] <giacus`> its enough for me
[16:49:11] <giacus`> just see it like another irc channel
[16:49:58] <dmess> gaicus... you use Gaim??
[16:50:28] <giacus`> I used it for years
[16:50:44] <dmess> cool..
[16:50:53] <giacus`> now I just use emacs for all, mail, irc, IM, sms, etc.. :)
[16:51:19] <giacus`> but gaim work fine, yeah.
[16:51:24] <giacus`> robin_sz: http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/11_20/products_id/346
[16:51:30] <giacus`> what about that hehe
[16:52:17] <dmess> nice little arm...
[16:52:18] <giacus`> nice toy ..
[16:52:31] <dmess> 6 axes
[16:52:55] <dmess> end of arm looks COMPLEX...
[16:53:24] <dmess> does it ahave a disconet ther for other eoa attatchments???
[16:54:08] <dmess> looks like you'd have to do a wrist-ectomy to alter it
[16:54:19] <giacus`> no clue
[16:56:36] <giacus`> giacus` is now known as giacus
[17:05:55] <dmess> ALPHa... how big is you mill???
[17:22:33] <giacus> uh k4ts was here ? :(
[17:23:05] <giacus> I didnt seen her..
[17:23:36] <giacus> dmessier: dmess (n=root...) thats is bad
[17:23:39] <giacus> ;)
[17:30:30] <dmess> im running from RAM disk... ; )
[17:31:06] <dmess> you can have it all.. 1 reboot and im back
[17:35:05] <giacus> I meant is bad to join irc as root .. you could join as normal user
[17:35:40] <dmess> live cd has no login..
[17:35:43] <giacus> maybe we're sayng the same thing :)
[17:35:46] <giacus> su ?
[17:38:28] <dmess> it does return ROOT to me too...
[17:38:36] <giacus> adduser dmess
[17:38:39] <giacus> su dmes
[17:38:51] <giacus> su dmess should work I guess
[17:39:18] <giacus> you should get dmess$
[17:39:27] <giacus> if not its a bad live cd ;P
[17:40:14] <dmess> yup... brb
[18:02:45] <dmess> giacus... i see what you mean... but for some reason.. it STILL comes up ROOT
[18:03:36] <dmess> i am logged in as denis but whoami says root..
[18:03:46] <dmess> brb
[18:06:14] <giacus> I seen ..
[18:23:04] <robin_sz> another day, another dollar
[18:26:37] <giacus> another day, another .. debit
[18:26:43] <giacus> :D
[18:28:00] <giacus> and another dinner
[18:28:02] <giacus> later
[18:30:23] <dmess> be well
[18:31:26] <robin_sz> should I go back to work for a couple of hours, run some jobs ...
[18:31:31] <robin_sz> or .. option B,
[18:31:34] <robin_sz> not bother
[18:35:46] <dmess> pick /b in multiple choice tests... ; )
[18:39:07] <Jymmm> d) All the above
[18:39:33] <robin_sz> so quite a fun weekl ... bought more gear :)
[18:39:47] <robin_sz> mainly boring stuff, but still ...
[18:39:50] <dmess> what sort??
[18:39:59] <robin_sz> welding gear ...
[18:40:11] <dmess> i like burnin stuff too
[18:40:14] <robin_sz> Kempii 4000 series welders and feeders
[18:40:43] <dmess> you used the plural sense.... how many did youy buy??
[18:40:55] <robin_sz> just two of them, and soem ESAB ventilated masks
[18:41:16] <dmess> ESAB make nice plasma's
[18:41:25] <robin_sz> mmmm ....
[18:41:30] <dmess> i love th plasma cutter
[18:41:31] <robin_sz> Hypertherm are nicer
[18:41:48] <dmess> we have a motomaster...
[18:42:08] <robin_sz> going to look at this robot early next week
[18:42:21] <dmess> cool
[18:42:34] <robin_sz> thats got a Kempi weld source ...
[18:42:52] <robin_sz> its an ABB 1400, about 1997/98
[18:43:06] <robin_sz> old, but not dead
[18:43:08] <dmess> we hacke a welding bot to make a robotic deburring unit out of it
[18:43:27] <dmess> about like that one... '98
[18:44:48] <robin_sz> wait, I have some pictures ...
[18:44:57] <dmess> added a pressure sensitive unit.. and different end of arm.. tools...
[18:45:37] <dmess> it t/c's by itself... but operator intervention req'd to swap belts and bobs
[18:50:05] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/
[18:51:05] <robin_sz> 2nd pic shows the 'bot
[18:51:19] <robin_sz> rest is just the small weld cell it comes with ...
[18:52:48] <dmess> as long as you have no health and safety commitee ... it looks pretty sweet... WE cant HAVE anything exposed...
[18:53:27] <dmess> its retarded... WE are being legislated OUT of business
[18:54:48] <dmess> we have GAP-BED lathes that are FIXTUREs... you cant get one like that any more.... soon we wont be able to operat it bcz it has too many openings to shroud
[18:55:35] <robin_sz> exposed? .. theres nothing exposed onthat bot
[18:56:20] <robin_sz> see the front view? thats a sliding door .. comes up, with interlocks
[18:56:51] <robin_sz> the view where you can see the bot (pic2) is from the rear door, also interlocked
[18:57:16] <robin_sz> with coded keys etc, doors have to be locked, keys in the rack before it will run
[18:58:12] <robin_sz> so its completely enclosed, with interlocks and a double safety chain to the latest specs
[18:58:36] <dmess> slick... $$$$
[18:58:41] <robin_sz> cheap
[18:58:49] <robin_sz> guess ... ?
[18:58:56] <dmess> whats wrong with it???
[18:59:09] <robin_sz> noting .. was working until pulled about 2 months ago
[18:59:20] <dmess> 10k US
[18:59:25] <robin_sz> close ...
[18:59:38] <robin_sz> 5K gbp, say 8k US
[18:59:39] <dmess> control??
[18:59:49] <robin_sz> yeah, ABB S4 series control
[18:59:53] <dmess> from where??
[19:00:04] <dmess> power the same as yours??
[19:00:15] <dmess> transformes etc??
[19:00:19] <robin_sz> sure, its a UK machine
[19:00:24] <dmess> cool
[19:00:33] <dmess> sounds like a steal
[19:00:39] <robin_sz> its basically complete, robot, welder, PLC cabinet
[19:00:48] <robin_sz> and cell
[19:00:49] <dmess> you have work for it??? want some??
[19:01:03] <robin_sz> have some .. always wanting more :)
[19:01:35] <dmess> tapered tremmels... cones out of screen.... give it some thought
[19:02:26] <dmessier> shippin would be bruttal
[19:03:06] <Jymmm> How difficult/costly do you think it would be to have a camcorder that tracks me?
[19:03:33] <robin_sz> Jymmm, cheap and easy
[19:03:52] <Jymmm> Yeah? What you got in mind?
[19:03:57] <robin_sz> Jymmm, try the 'motion' project on sourceforge
[19:04:32] <robin_sz> will track a person moving in a room, and drive a stepper motor cotnrolled camera
[19:05:01] <Jymmm> I need pan and tilt
[19:05:25] <Jymmm> I need it to "follow me" within +- 24"
[19:05:39] <robin_sz> does it do that?
[19:05:41] <LawrenceG> 72 point PCI i/o card.... http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml
[19:05:59] <Jymmm> nope, just a plain old camcorder
[19:06:15] <robin_sz> have you read up on the motion project yet?
[19:10:16] <robin_sz> LawrenceG, looks like some 8255's with a PCI bus interface chip ... the 8255 is wel known and easy to use, so should be a cinch
[19:10:26] <dmessier> sounds neat.. and doable to me..
[19:10:33] <robin_sz> LawrenceG, essentially, what you have there is 3 printer sockets on a single card
[19:10:38] <LawrenceG> robin_sz: yes ... very cheap for lots of i/o
[19:11:11] <LawrenceG> robin_sz: some opto 22 racks and classic ladder would rock
[19:11:59] <LawrenceG> robin_sz: would handle all the i/o for just about any machine
[19:12:14] <dmessier> im lookin at classic ladder to run my perpetual motion - electrical generator...
[19:12:59] <anonimasu> dmessier: there's no such thing.
[19:13:08] <anonimasu> energy never is free.
[19:13:17] <robin_sz> anonimasu, shh, let him find out the hard way
[19:13:19] <dmessier> and with a little help from my friends id like a workin' prototype by december
[19:13:21] <LawrenceG> dmess: cool... send me the plans, sounds like it would good for a BC bud grow op
[19:13:43] <dmessier> anaon.. you got to know were to steal from..
[19:14:16] <dmessier> VERY good for my BC friends... but dont forget Daddy
[19:14:57] <dmessier> this idea DID not come from thinkin' straight
[19:15:35] <robin_sz> no kidding
[19:15:35] <dmessier> bendin' and pushing the rules... of what ppl know...
[19:15:47] <LawrenceG> I find a lot of interesting inventions come from a bottle of rye and a bag of tatter tots!
[19:16:20] <robin_sz> indeed
[19:16:31] <robin_sz> sadly they only work in a world of rye ...
[19:16:38] <robin_sz> in the real world .. they fail
[19:16:50] <dmessier> but higher physics ARE that sort of thinkin'...
[19:17:51] <dmessier> mine seems to work in a micro application.. so we go for MINI... then MACRO...
[19:18:10] <robin_sz> does it?
[19:18:19] <dmessier> opposit to the pc revolution..
[19:18:53] <dmessier> it does... i have a flashlight yo shack to charge batteries...
[19:18:53] <Jymmm> robin_sz: I'm reading... I see that it can detect motion, but I dont see anything about tracking motion.
[19:19:18] <Jymmm> dmessier I have one too, just keep it away from the CRT's =)
[19:19:25] <dmessier> si
[19:19:34] <robin_sz> Jymmm, they do have a bit to drive some steppers in there
[19:20:09] <Jymmm> robin_sz Ah, ok. I was thinking some sort of RF triangulation, and I wear a small TX of sorts.
[19:20:25] <dmessier> well i will build a bank of falling magnets... and charge batteries ..t o run an inverter.. and make 120 ac power...
[19:20:35] <robin_sz> ah yes
[19:21:02] <robin_sz> the batteries, remind me .. how do they get back to the top again?
[19:21:13] <Jymmm> anti-gravity
[19:21:16] <dmessier> the batteries dont fall..
[19:21:22] <anonimasu> how does antigravity work?
[19:21:27] <robin_sz> sorry, the magnets
[19:21:34] <dmessier> it sucks you up
[19:21:35] <Jymmm> anonimasu google it =)
[19:21:44] <robin_sz> how do the magnets get back to the top again?
[19:21:46] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I know, but how do you apply it in the _real_ world.
[19:22:08] <dmessier> there is NO antigravity... only potential differential
[19:22:10] <anonimasu> Jymmm: if we can do that kind of stuff why dont we just float instead of walk
[19:22:48] <Jymmm> anonimasu traffic control
[19:22:55] <dmessier> bcz we are DUMB humans
[19:23:03] <robin_sz> how do the magnets get back to the top again?
[19:23:16] <dmessier> not Exceptional humans
[19:24:02] <dmessier> they are hooked to th ones falling on the other side with 1 g of water on them
[19:24:42] <robin_sz> so they only fall because one side has water on it to make it heavier, right?
[19:25:13] <dmessier> si
[19:25:33] <robin_sz> so, basically, it is a waterwheel, with magnets mounted directly on it
[19:25:42] <dmessier> but it makes more E than it takes to get the drop back up...
[19:26:31] <dmessier> no the are tubes.. that allow terminal V to be reaced in the macro mode
[19:26:51] <dmessier> the tubes are coils
[19:27:08] <robin_sz> whatebver .... magents moving past coils ...
[19:27:14] <dmessier> the target is magnetic.. accelerated by G
[19:27:41] <robin_sz> right, same as a water wheel
[19:27:55] <Jymmm> That's an aweful lot of copper wire.
[19:28:02] <dmessier> but i consume VERY little water
[19:28:23] <robin_sz> then you have very little energy
[19:29:10] <dmessier> and get a long run for it... both the upwards travelling magnet AND the downwards travelling magnet make E from the same drop of water...
[19:29:50] <dmessier> since they move within the coil and have a flux
[19:29:56] <robin_sz> same as a waterwheel .. put magnets all around it .. coils all around the diameter,
[19:30:00] <Jymmm> dmessier: Why not make a scaled model and see how it does?
[19:30:11] <robin_sz> I agree completely that the magnet moving through the coil makes electricity
[19:30:26] <robin_sz> pick a magent up, drop it down the tube ...
[19:30:34] <robin_sz> it will work ..
[19:30:41] <dmessier> so lets not fight... lets save the planet...
[19:30:56] <robin_sz> but you are not saving the planet are you?
[19:31:39] <dmessier> for my kids... yes..
[19:31:43] <robin_sz> you are going to use energy to make this ...
[19:32:02] <dmessier> GRAVITY IS FREE
[19:32:15] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[19:32:24] <dmessier> wanna argue??
[19:32:30] <robin_sz> no ..
[19:32:48] <robin_sz> but what you have is a pretty sort of waterwheel
[19:32:50] <Jymmm> dmessier: How much copper wire would you need (in dollars) ?
[19:33:02] <dmessier> its been a friend of mine for many yrs.... taught me a few VITAL lessons...
[19:33:20] <robin_sz> magnets go down, magents go up ...
[19:33:30] <robin_sz> I dont see any fundamental difference yet
[19:34:09] <dmessier> full scaled... 2500' drop 6 ft dia.... .02 dia wire... MANNNY wraps... X2 pipes
[19:34:38] <Jymmm> dmessier: how much would the wire cost you think?
[19:34:38] <dmessier> in weather they move up or down??
[19:34:52] <dmessier> 250 000$$$ us
[19:35:14] <Jymmm> and the magnets?
[19:35:16] <dmessier> for about a 1 Kwat per drop...
[19:35:38] <robin_sz> so, in one tube magnets comeing down, in the other manets going up
[19:35:46] <dmessier> yes..
[19:35:58] <robin_sz> lets assume it is rictionaless and perfect OK?
[19:36:03] <robin_sz> no losses?
[19:36:10] <robin_sz> frictionless
[19:36:14] <dmessier> approx 500 kg of magnetic mat'l per tube
[19:36:30] <dmessier> only 1 wheel
[19:36:33] <robin_sz> so ... say you get 1kw out coming down
[19:36:55] <chinamill> robin_sz: You had laser cutters, right? How many watts is your lasers?
[19:36:58] <dmessier> in 30 seconds
[19:37:20] <robin_sz> actually, you dont because you dont meusure energy in watts, you measure it in joules ..
[19:37:21] <dmessier> then it turns around and DOE it again
[19:37:35] <robin_sz> chinamill, 1800W is
[19:37:56] <chinamill> cut like 10mm or so?
[19:38:09] <robin_sz> dmessier, so .. you get 1000J on the way down right?
[19:38:28] <dmessier> sounds reasonable... for free
[19:38:29] <robin_sz> chinamill, 15mm for 1800W
[19:38:37] <chinamill> ok...
[19:38:48] <robin_sz> dmessier, and how many watts you get out on the way up?
[19:38:56] <robin_sz> sorrym joules
[19:39:01] <robin_sz> 1000J again?
[19:39:08] <dmessier> its a STUPID idea/PLan for retirement... but its ALL i got
[19:39:13] <chinamill> robin_sz: Did you buy the finished tubes or did you hack away?
[19:39:35] <robin_sz> chinamill, no, I bought the thing fully working ... as a machine
[19:39:58] <chinamill> robin_sz: over my budget ;)
[19:40:51] <dmessier> so E is proportionate to the # of Devices... falling..
[19:41:41] <Jymmm> I was photographing the demolition of a 100 year old Del Monte processing plant. The jerk of a security guard was being a pita, think I need to start video taping my photography sessions from now on.
[19:41:57] <Jymmm> you can't fix stupid
[19:42:15] <robin_sz> dmessier, so .. if you get 1000J out as it goes up ....
[19:42:32] <robin_sz> you will need 2000J to raise it to the top
[19:42:54] <robin_sz> 1000J to give it the PE as it goes from the bottom to the top
[19:43:04] <robin_sz> 1000J to be extracted by the coils
[19:43:41] <robin_sz> so ... you have:
[19:43:46] <Jymmm> wouldn't it just be easier to find a thermal pocket somewhere instead?
[19:43:54] <robin_sz> 2000J per magent going in to raise them
[19:44:08] <robin_sz> 1000J coming out as they go up
[19:44:15] <robin_sz> 1000J coming out as they go down
[19:44:27] <robin_sz> result... same in, as goes out.
[19:44:40] <robin_sz> assuming no losses from friction
[19:45:17] <Jymmm> then use stacked wind generators in the shaft and let the thermal feature turn the props?
[19:46:10] <robin_sz> Jymmm, I am not suggesting the magent idea as a good plan, I am just trying to show dmessier WHY it wont give free energy
[19:46:35] <dmessier> but YOU forgot about the DIFFERENTIAl
[19:46:47] <robin_sz> no, trust me .. I didn't
[19:47:02] <Jymmm> robin_sz: I understand, just seems the cost of the coild @ $250,000 USD id be cheaper to buy/use wind generators
[19:47:09] <dmessier> when it works i'll still like ya
[19:47:55] <dmessier> the mini mode will use 2" dia x 10 ft tubel...
[19:47:57] <robin_sz> dmessier, well, all I can suggest is you sit down with a high school physics teacher and explain it to them before you invest your savings
[19:48:28] <robin_sz> Jymmm, well, a wind generator woudl actually produce power ... so its already way ahead as an idea
[19:48:29] <Jymmm> dmessier is this shaft of yours in the desert?
[19:49:00] <dmessier> thx for the advise... i taught my physics teacher all thru high school... it was the only class i ever liked...
[19:49:15] <Jymmm> robin_sz so will the magnets, it's just getting back up that I question.
[19:49:38] <dmessier> there are many shafts as prospects.. the most available is in sand..
[19:49:47] <robin_sz> Jymmm, if he weights the magnets on one side with water, he will get some excess energy
[19:50:17] <robin_sz> Jymmm, but hed get the same from pouring the watre down the same shaft, onto a turbine wheel
[19:50:34] <dmessier> then ditch the water on that one... and add water to the other
[19:51:12] <robin_sz> Jymmm, the only energy available is the potential energy of the water that you can drop down the shaft and then not bother to bring back up again
[19:51:13] <Jymmm> Gravity sucks, in more ways than one. But if you could find a thermal feature, even letting the pressure build up slightly is bound to turn the wind generators. Plus the fact of using "heat rises" is an added bonus.
[19:51:31] <dmessier> no the water on the wheel would work for 2-3 seconds.. as opposed to using it for 3--40 seconds
[19:51:41] <robin_sz> Jymmm, so it will work on a small scale, but onb a large scalem the shaft just fills with water
[19:52:09] <Jymmm> robin_sz: But if there's a thermal feature, you get steam =)
[19:52:21] <robin_sz> Jymmm, possibly, but I dont care
[19:52:36] <dmessier> they are full to a cerain level ANYWAY...
[19:52:46] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Yeah, we know when your children have done to your bathroom floor Noah =)
[19:53:21] <robin_sz> dmessier, so how is it different from a large chain of buckets, that empty as they go round at the bottom. chain drives a generator ...
[19:53:41] <dmessier> i could use rainfall into the existing waterfilled hole and it would NEVER overflow...
[19:53:45] <Jymmm> Hey, there's an idea.... drop a bunch of ADD kids in a hole and use their energy!
[19:54:37] <dmessier> ive seen bucket wheels
[19:54:41] <dmessier> WORK
[19:54:52] <robin_sz> yes
[19:54:54] <robin_sz> I agree
[19:55:20] <Jymmm> dmessier: The magnets are a nice idea, but I aint seeing it in principal of cost. But we do have a hell of a lot of thermal features I bet you could take advantage of and be practical in practice and cost.
[19:55:34] <dmessier> this is the POSIBILITY of adding terminal velocity to MAGNETS
[19:55:42] <anonimasu> heh
[19:56:10] <anonimasu> you mean that you drop them into a hole.
[19:56:14] <anonimasu> right?
[19:56:30] <dmessier> yes... i have a 1.5 mile hole if i need it
[19:56:59] <dmessier> 8380 feet to be precice
[19:57:11] <Jymmm> dmessier where is this hole apx?
[19:57:28] <dmessier> Kirkland lake Ontario Canada
[19:57:40] <dmessier> macassa mine shaft # 3
[19:57:40] <giacus> wow http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4776181634656145640
[19:58:49] <dmessier> he
[19:58:56] <dmessier> 's GOOD
[19:59:38] <robin_sz> like ai said, go find a high school physics teacher ... let them explain potential and kinetic energy to you
[20:00:08] <dmessier> i wanna show them e can make more froe E than gold
[20:01:07] <robin_sz> well, just dont bet the farm on it
[20:01:08] <dmessier> i AM VERY well versed in potential e and kinetic e but you need to learn about gravitational acceleration
[20:02:27] <robin_sz> 9.812 ms^-2
[20:02:34] <dmessier> IT does't give anyting up
[20:02:50] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[20:03:03] <robin_sz> I knew another guy like you once ...
[20:03:44] <dmessier> and??
[20:04:05] <robin_sz> his idea was to put containers to the bottom of the ocean, open a valve, allow the water to compress the air, bring them up and allow the air to force out the water, driving a generator/turbine
[20:04:26] <robin_sz> but them on a big chain, so one is always going up, the other going down
[20:04:55] <dmessier> and was he so wrong...
[20:05:07] <robin_sz> yep .. mad as a brush
[20:05:40] <dmessier> we need to find RENEWABLE resourses... and i have NEVE gotten a gravity bill
[20:05:57] <Jymmm> never got a solar bill either
[20:05:58] <dmessier> never
[20:06:41] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[20:06:42] <anonimasu> dmessier: well, all you have to do is create something with a negative mass and wham you have antigravity..
[20:06:43] <robin_sz> dmessier, so just build a big bucket wheel down the mione shaft and start filling buckets with water, or sand or anytihng you dont want to bring up again ...
[20:06:44] <Jymmm> I still think if you could find a way to harness the volcanic rock in Hawaii, you'ld be better off
[20:06:45] <alex_joni> night all..
[20:06:48] <dmessier> right.. and i had 3 solar cells in 1980.... 1.5 V @ 300 milliamp in full sunlight...
[20:06:51] <anonimasu> alex_joni: nice call
[20:06:54] <Jymmm> nite alex_joni
[20:06:57] <robin_sz> alex_joni, seen my bot?
[20:07:04] <dmessier> this isnt my 1st brain wave..
[20:07:10] <robin_sz> or soon-to-be-mine?
[20:07:25] <Jymmm> My solar blanket puts out 24V @ 1A full sun
[20:07:36] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/
[20:07:45] <dmessier> i was 13 yrs old..
[20:08:08] <Jymmm> mine is made specifically for radios
[20:08:11] <dmessier> and thinkin / dreamin''''' HOW
[20:08:21] <Jymmm> recharging the gelcells
[20:08:31] <robin_sz> dmessier, same as my friend with the containers ... hed been working on it for 30 years ...
[20:08:49] <robin_sz> mad as a brush, still believes it will work too.
[20:09:14] <Jymmm> robin_sz it probably will, just will never see it in our lifetime
[20:09:15] <dmessier> it will work... the math im NOT worried about...
[20:09:24] <robin_sz> well, you should be
[20:09:52] <dmessier> you ever had to learn some NEW math...
[20:09:54] <Jymmm> "I know we could talk wirelessly" circa 1700's =)
[20:10:36] <dmessier> challenges really drive me.... and ive NEVER LOSt
[20:10:40] <robin_sz> dmessier, your particular problem doesnt require any "new" maths, its just multipliaction and additon
[20:11:16] <dmessier> and an eye on what we've been missing
[20:11:28] <robin_sz> dmessier, OK, then heres a challenge ...
[20:11:37] <dmessier> i never said it was complicated..
[20:11:53] <Bo^Dick> if i mess up my latest attempt with my stepper driver i've spent the amount of money it costs to buy one geckodrive!
[20:12:09] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick, just buy a gecko .. its cheaper
[20:12:18] <anonimasu> Bo^Dick: if you cound all time invested as free..
[20:12:28] <robin_sz> and they are better.
[20:13:00] <Bo^Dick> of course a one axis system doesn't yield a cnc system however
[20:13:01] <robin_sz> Bo^Dick, is yours microstepping?
[20:13:11] <Bo^Dick> my will be quarterstepping
[20:13:29] <Bo^Dick> does that count as microstepping?
[20:13:34] <robin_sz> no :)
[20:13:52] <robin_sz> microstepping approximates to sine wave drive of the coils
[20:14:04] <Bo^Dick> i know
[20:14:35] <Bo^Dick> so you think 1/8 stepping is a lot smoother than 1/4 stepping
[20:14:40] <robin_sz> will ti do 7A at 70v?
[20:14:54] <Bo^Dick> it will do whatever powerstage i install to it
[20:15:28] <robin_sz> what anti resonance circuit you using?
[20:16:33] <robin_sz> or not bothering?
[20:17:35] <Bo^Dick> i haven't implemented anti-resonance
[20:17:45] <Bo^Dick> do you know how anti-resonance works?
[20:18:11] <robin_sz> dmessier, if you want a challenge, why not learn about eigenvalues and eigenvectors ... cant be hard, as you say you never lost and you liek to learn new maths
[20:18:43] <Bo^Dick> i wonder if the anti-resonance stuff is done in the controller part or in the powerstage!
[20:19:03] <Bo^Dick> does anyone know about that?
[20:19:09] <robin_sz> you basically watch the coil voltages, try and measure the back emf from the motor
[20:19:18] <robin_sz> its in the power stage really
[20:19:38] <Bo^Dick> phew, since i'm happy with the controller part!
[20:19:40] <robin_sz> otherwise the motr is likely to stall at mid-range ...
[20:20:07] <Bo^Dick> i don't think i'm gonna run the motors fast at constant speed
[20:20:24] <dmess> robin.. relax.. dont BLOW a vessel
[20:21:09] <dmess> i might just do that
[20:21:17] <robin_sz> dmess, yeah whatever ... just seems a shame you are going to try something that is plainly noty going to work ... but, if you have cash to burn, it will be a fun project
[20:21:19] <K4ts> hello
[20:22:37] <giacus> hey K4ts !
[20:22:42] <giacus> LOL http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-837351778607056708
[20:24:42] <robin_sz> dmess, try http://www.mathphysics.com/calc/eigen.html .. . they are fun because they blend matrix algebra and calculus, and they have applications in applied physics, so its a neat mix of two big areas of maths, plus a bridge between pure and applied maths ... quite a challenge
[20:37:55] <anonimasu> 6*yawn*
[20:45:30] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[20:45:30] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[20:52:37] <dmessier> is THAT just a fancy name for unit vector robin...?
[20:56:53] <dmessier> thx robin..
[20:59:42] <dmessier> Automatically Programmed Tool uses a VERY similar matrix structure... it does full 5 axis programming in a verbose / text mode.. geometry creation and all...
[21:00:42] <dmessier> it breaks it down to connonical form for all basic elements.. and a few complex ones..
[21:01:16] <dmessier> you CAN drive along a tabulated cylinder
[21:01:45] <dmessier> with adjusted tl/ axis vectors
[21:13:50] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/TODO: logarithmic jog speed control
[21:13:50] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: logarithmic jog speed control
[21:13:50] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: logarithmic jog speed control
[21:28:54] <Jymmm> cradek do you remember taper linear pots?
[21:28:58] <Jymmm> tapered
[21:32:13] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/arcspiral.ngc: spiral.ngc fitted with arcs
[21:51:01] <CIA-8> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/ (spiral.ngc arcspiral.ngc): as cut on the mazak
[22:03:48] <giacus> I believe I can fly
[22:04:11] <giacus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR9t_12Hxzk&feature=Views&page=2&t=t&f=b
[22:04:17] <giacus> I can touch the sky :P
[22:12:57] <Jymmm> I can fart
[22:14:56] <giacus> :-)
[22:15:00] <Jymmm> =)
[22:19:37] <dmess> i ate asperagus .. i can FLY... trust me lol
[22:22:17] <SWPadnos> logger_aj: bookmark
[22:22:17] <SWPadnos> See
[22:53:12] <giacus> http://www.roboitalia.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=72&place=thumbnails&album=lastup&cat=10196
[22:53:32] <giacus> a friend of mine done his drivers today :P
[22:53:58] <giacus> looks a nice job
[23:15:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/threading.ngc: demo as cut at cnc workshop