#emc | Logs for 2006-05-13

[00:00:50] <bigAl> right - I got that compiled eventually
[00:02:21] <les_w> I have not been able to do anything with emc2 due to work schedules
[00:02:33] <les_w> need to though
[00:04:55] <bigAl> Have a choice here, either stick with emc, or change out all the hardware and try emc2
[00:05:42] <les_w> well there have been a lot of improvements
[00:06:03] <les_w> I just need to get away from the old stg card...it's too slow for a router
[00:06:16] <les_w> I need 10 kHz servo update rates
[00:06:52] <les_w> ahhh that fire feels good...seems strange in may though
[00:07:33] <les_w> wish I had some saki or hot buttered rum
[00:09:44] <bigAl> we are looking at running 15KHz servo loops
[00:09:55] <les_w> cool
[00:10:14] <bigAl> testing emc and it looks like we can do it
[00:10:22] <les_w> well the fastest demonstrated with emc I Saw was 8 kHz with a motenc card
[00:10:38] <les_w> have you gone faster?
[00:10:45] <bigAl> jitter is around 2 microseconds in the lab
[00:10:50] <SWPadnos> bigAl, what hardware do you need to change to be able to try emc2?
[00:11:26] <bigAl> processor cards
[00:12:06] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the CPU demands of emc2 are only slightly higher than for emc1
[00:12:41] <les_w> bigal might mean i/o cards...
[00:13:27] <SWPadnos> that was my first thought, but since emc2 has a superset of the drivers that emc1 has, I asked my question
[00:13:46] <les_w> ah ok
[00:14:33] <les_w> I wish I could get some time to work on the cnc stuff some
[00:14:41] <les_w> my own fault really
[00:14:49] <SWPadnos> greedy bastard ;)
[00:14:54] <les_w> I've gone capitalistic
[00:15:12] <bigAl> the drivers are no use in emc or emc2
[00:15:26] <SWPadnos> which drivers?
[00:15:37] <bigAl> all of them
[00:15:38] <les_w> what's your interface card?
[00:15:53] <bigAl> custom inhouse
[00:15:58] <les_w> ohhhh
[00:16:34] <les_w> making commercial product? factory automation?
[00:16:36] <SWPadnos> in that case I'd say that emc2 is definitely the way to go
[00:16:58] <SWPadnos> the driver is just a separate source module in emc2, not linked into task etc. at compile time
[00:17:33] <SWPadnos> (you do have to tweak a makefile to get it to build, and oneemc2 source file to make it loadable with halcmd)
[00:21:34] <bigAl> if emc2 is not going to compile on our hardware, I don't know what to do.
[00:21:54] <anonimasu> hm, does anyone have experience with gibbscam?
[00:22:15] <SWPadnos> ah right - you were the one compiling for ppc, right?
[00:22:30] <SWPadnos> sorry anon - never heard of it
[00:22:33] <bigAl> yes. 740 chip
[00:23:32] <SWPadnos> ok. Fest is next week. I'm sure several of us will be on IRC, so remind us that "other platform support" is being requested by a potential user
[00:24:40] <bigAl> the lab rats tell me I am wasting my time
[00:25:02] <SWPadnos> what is the processor speed on the CPU?
[00:26:14] <bigAl> from 400MHz up
[00:26:51] <SWPadnos> ok. and what kind of hardware do you have to run motors? (ie, A/D and D/A, step/direction, PWM, CPU generated steps ...)
[00:27:00] <SWPadnos> err - to run motor drivers
[00:27:26] <bigAl> digital interface
[00:28:32] <SWPadnos> like SPI, or "write a word to memmaped I/O to set velocity"
[00:29:50] <bigAl> from the interface side, it is a set of registers that we read and write
[00:30:28] <bigAl> communications with the servo is with fiber optic cables
[00:30:36] <SWPadnos> ok. then the driver should be no problem. the main thing is the lack of userspace acces to "test_and_set_bit"?
[00:30:47] <SWPadnos> (unless you've found something else)
[00:31:50] <bigAl> iopl(), all bit functions, and some linking problems
[00:32:30] <bigAl> and that stupid rdtscll call.
[00:32:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm. iopl() could be an issue
[00:32:55] <fenn> this certainly sounds like an interesting project
[00:33:02] <bigAl> ppc does not have iopl, only i386
[00:33:07] <SWPadnos> It shouldn't be necessary on ppc - isn't memory mapped I/O used most of the time
[00:33:23] <SWPadnos> ie, there's no equivalent of inb() and outb()
[00:34:07] <bigAl> of course there are inb and outb calls. Standard C
[00:35:36] <SWPadnos> they're faked on ppc - there's a memory array called ISA_io
[00:37:06] <fenn> is that a good thing? :)
[00:37:15] <SWPadnos> sort of ;)
[00:37:43] <SWPadnos> it's good that not every processor family is as stupidly designed as the ix86
[00:37:56] <bigAl> you need to look at asm/io.h - It is all there.
[00:38:13] <bigAl> and the calls are not faked.
[00:39:30] <anonimasu> g nite
[00:39:30] <SWPadnos> right, but they're "reads from I/O memory", which AFAIK is a region of memory that has been defined as I/O
[00:40:24] <SWPadnos> you can still just read the memory with a pointer, but these instructions use barriers to insure that they don't return until the memory is actually read/written (ie, they wait for wait states)
[00:40:29] <SWPadnos> night, anonimasu
[00:41:20] <SWPadnos> in any case, those should only be in kernel code anyway
[00:42:55] <bigAl> correct.
[00:43:24] <SWPadnos> (my example of something "only available on ix86" was a bad one)
[00:47:01] <bigAl> I really do not want to switch to x86, but need to get a demo running for Monday
[00:47:18] <SWPadnos> oh. well that's a bit soon ;)
[00:47:34] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to get a demo working before I start the drive to Fest tomorrow ;)
[00:48:50] <bigAl> can grab a cheap box from RatShack, but do not want to mess with another kernel compile
[00:49:16] <SWPadnos> don't compile. download Ubuntu, follow the instructions on the wiki, and go
[00:49:48] <SWPadnos> there are precompiled packages for emc2, and you can get source easily enough, so you can compile your custom driver
[00:50:11] <bigAl> i see there is a BDI-4,46 - can i use that ?
[00:50:43] <VNR> hi, can i ask a question ?
[00:52:33] <SWPadnos> bigAl, I'm not sure what the status of BDI 4.46 is. I see the new files though
[00:52:39] <SWPadnos> VNR, sure - go ahead
[00:53:30] <SWPadnos> bigAl, the emc on BDI4 is sort of a cross between emc1 and emc2
[00:53:59] <SWPadnos> an ubuntu install + emc2 install (with build-dep) may be a better bet
[00:54:43] <giacus> goodnight
[00:54:49] <Jymmm> apt-get install emc2 ????????
[00:55:44] <VNR> i want to know if EMC close the feedback loop at the software from the encoder
[00:56:02] <bigAl> so Ubuntu comes complete with a real time kernel ?
[00:56:07] <VNR> i mean, many of the PC based cnc that i saw send the direction and pulse signal to the driver and the loop is closed between the driver and the motor, but there isn't closed loop between the CNC program and the driver
[00:56:16] <SWPadnos> VNR - yes it does
[00:56:41] <SWPadnos> bigAl, no, but there is a precompiled RT kernel that gets installed as a dependency for emc2
[00:56:49] <SWPadnos> that's in the emc2 repository
[00:57:04] <bigAl> but no CD ?
[00:57:26] <SWPadnos> VNR, if you use steppers, then closing the loop is a strange proposition. with serrvos, it's great
[00:57:56] <VNR> SWpadnos: so i can be sure that there is no missed steps, is that correct ?
[00:58:13] <SWPadnos> bigAl, jepler is working on making an ISO with all the dependencies for emc2 (you'd use apt-cdrom add for it)
[00:58:13] <fenn> this topic seems to come up often
[00:58:22] <SWPadnos> bigAl, and alex_joni is working on a liveCD
[00:58:52] <SWPadnos> VNR, steppers have an opposite torque curve compared to servos, so you can't control them the same way
[00:59:12] <SWPadnos> if they lose steps, you need to slow down. if a servo falls behind, you tell it to try harder
[00:59:33] <fenn> i'm a little braindead right now but i dont see why it couldnt catch up at the end of the move
[00:59:51] <SWPadnos> what if only X stalls, but not Y or Z?
[00:59:52] <bigAl> By the sound of it you don't support the BDI stuff any more
[00:59:58] <SWPadnos> you end up with an incorrect part
[01:00:06] <fenn> yeah but only a little gouge
[01:00:33] <SWPadnos> bigAl, BDI has moved to )one sec - looking up the url)
[01:00:34] <fenn> within the following error, same as a servo
[01:00:40] <fenn> bdi4emc.com
[01:00:53] <SWPadnos> bdi4emc.ourproject.org I think
[01:01:03] <SWPadnos> or did he get a domain for it?
[01:01:09] <fenn> ah see what i mean, i'm braindead
[01:01:11] <bigAl> that is the link I have
[01:01:14] <VNR> SWpadnos: do i have to use servo-to-go cards for closed loops ?
[01:01:30] <SWPadnos> no - there are drivers for 6 or 7 cards
[01:01:51] <fenn> there is a supported hardware page on the wiki - you need to use one of the commercial cards
[01:01:52] <SWPadnos> STG, Motenc, Mesa, Pico Systems, Vigilant ...
[01:02:17] <SWPadnos> well - unless you want to write some drivers ;)
[01:02:34] <VNR> SWpadnos: thanks you for your help
[01:02:39] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:03:23] <SWPadnos> bigAl, if it's not too long (> 30k or so), can you send a ppc build log (of emc2) to the developer list?
[01:03:34] <SWPadnos> at least the parts that don't work
[01:04:07] <bigAl> I have seen ubuntu and it was flakey and had to fix a load of configs before we could use it.
[01:04:18] <SWPadnos> how long ago?
[01:04:28] <SWPadnos> and on what harrdware?
[01:04:55] <SWPadnos> I think my R key thinks I'm a pirrrate
[01:04:57] <bigAl> do not want to go back there again.
[01:05:28] <fenn> rayh: get your pcmcia card working?
[01:05:35] <bigAl> ppc and an embedded 586
[01:05:49] <SWPadnos> ah - not an AMD elan?
[01:05:58] <fenn> * fenn wonders if anything would work right on an embedded box
[01:06:05] <rayh> I did. I had the little connector cables switched.
[01:06:18] <bigAl> I would have to look up the specs
[01:06:58] <SWPadnos> where do you want the GUI to be in this system? (on the ppc board, or remote)
[01:07:39] <bigAl> we plan to use an x86 for the user interface
[01:08:06] <SWPadnos> o0k
[01:08:08] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:09:13] <bigAl> or has client/server been dropped ?
[01:09:38] <SWPadnos> it's still there
[01:09:43] <SWPadnos> NML or remote X
[01:10:01] <SWPadnos> or a telnet shell session, very recently (untested by most)
[01:10:46] <bigAl> sigh.
[01:10:47] <fenn> is that actually telnet or just telnet-like protocol?
[01:11:13] <bigAl> remote X and vnc are not really an option are they.
[01:11:14] <SWPadnos> good question. I haven't compiled that yet
[01:11:32] <roltek> ray what kind of machine did roland plan on retrofitting
[01:11:33] <SWPadnos> the same methods that emc1 has are available in emc2
[01:13:14] <rayh> We have a punch press, a wire edm, and the finish of the mazak.
[01:13:39] <rayh> Jon Elson has a bpt series 2 here also
[01:14:01] <roltek> roland planning on doing a machine monday benchtop
[01:15:01] <bigAl> the bdi-4 looks like it has everything to install emc on a single CD
[01:15:07] <rayh> Yes a grizzly. He's got all the machining done just an assembly demo.
[01:15:20] <bigAl> any plans to do an emc2 package for it ?
[01:15:42] <rayh> Not that I know.
[01:15:43] <SWPadnos> it should have emc2 already, but I'm not sure what version, and I think there were some unresolved build issues
[01:16:34] <rayh> Roland plans to build a "Universal controller" as a demo also.
[01:17:10] <bigAl> seems such a waste of resources to have everyone doing their own CDs
[01:17:16] <roltek> ray you have all your paper work done.
[01:17:38] <rayh-laptop> Just to prove it works.
[01:17:50] <bigAl> Oh, there is a puppy CD as well.
[01:18:13] <SWPadnos> two puppies, actually - coolcnc is based on that
[01:18:22] <rayh-laptop> I've got puppy, ubuntu, and bdi-4.42 ready for fest.
[01:18:47] <rayh-laptop> Paul mentioned a 4.45 should be ready to download today.
[01:18:48] <SWPadnos> 4.46 is out, as of today or so
[01:18:50] <bigAl> I am nearly done downloading bdi-4.46
[01:19:11] <rayh> you're way ahead of me.
[01:19:17] <SWPadnos> only the install CD and src-1 so far though - he hasn't uploaded src-2
[01:19:38] <SWPadnos> bigAl, where are you downloading from?
[01:21:24] <bigAl> ftp://bdi4emc.ourproject.org/pub/bdi4emc/
[01:22:21] <SWPadnos> ah. ok
[01:22:57] <roltek> ray how is the card going
[01:24:11] <bigAl> You realize having five different CDs is going to be very confusing for us
[01:25:09] <bigAl> and having so many competing disks doesn't bode well for the rest of the development
[01:26:12] <SWPadnos> there are two separate emc-based projects right now, emc2 and bdi4emc (and that's what doesn't bode well, IMO)
[01:26:15] <bigAl> surely it would make sense to pool resourcs
[01:26:36] <SWPadnos> the two projects have somewhat dfferent goals, it seems
[01:26:51] <SWPadnos> (though I'm not sure exactly what the differences are)
[01:26:57] <bigAl> but bdi4emc is just the CD/distro isn't it ?
[01:27:24] <SWPadnos> yes and no. the version of emc on that CD isn't the same as either emc1 or emc2
[01:27:43] <bigAl> why is that ?
[01:27:45] <SWPadnos> though you can install emc2 (manually), there have been problems
[01:27:53] <SWPadnos> because emc1 can't work on kernel 2.6
[01:28:03] <SWPadnos> so BDI has something we've dubbed "emc 1.5"
[01:28:08] <rayh> Folk can install what they want but I'm only teaching emc2
[01:29:01] <rayh> I wonder if the source for emc2-2.0 is on the bdi-4.46?
[01:29:53] <jepler> bigAl: back before emc2 was viable, paul corner changed emc1 to work on the kernel 2.6 with rtai, while the focus of most people here on #emc has been emc2. we mostly consider emc2 to be the real emc.
[01:30:06] <jepler> rayh: I don't know; he made a package once but I don't think it was usable
[01:31:20] <rayh> Okay. I try compiling from scratch here before monday.
[01:31:25] <bigAl> don't you guys talk to each other ?
[01:31:57] <rayh> there are a few issues bigAl that we'd rather not get into.
[01:32:09] <fenn> it seems since we stopped talking so much that work has actually gotten done
[01:32:10] <SWPadnos> Source: emc2
[01:32:11] <SWPadnos> Version: 2.0.0+cvs20060329
[01:33:24] <jepler> fenn: this guy, Matt Timmermans, seems pretty sharp. He's contributed a new step waveform generator and a new trajectory planner to emc1.
[01:33:43] <jepler> er, to bdi4emc
[01:33:58] <SWPadnos> I'd like to see the TP work
[01:34:06] <bigAl> jeez.. I'm going to have a hard time convincing the rest of the team to use this stuff
[01:34:23] <jepler> I don't think emc2 has a lot to learn from the step waveform generator, but I would like to know what he's done with the TP. Its main feature compared to cradek's is lookahead.
[01:34:23] <rayh> Team?
[01:34:25] <SWPadnos> bigAl, what are your other options?
[01:34:32] <fenn> SWPadnos: exactly what i was going to ask
[01:34:56] <jepler> bigAl: it's free software -- forks happen.
[01:35:05] <asdfqwega> "A man with a new idea is a fool...
[01:35:13] <SWPadnos> (not meant as a rhetorical question - I'm curious about what other machine controllers you can get, that will work unmodified on a ppc board)
[01:36:40] <bigAl> Delta Tau and Galil do PCI cards that we can plug in, but it is the fiber optic links that are the problem.
[01:37:24] <SWPadnos> but those cards don't have G-code interpreters etc.
[01:37:26] <rayh> Whoa. Delta Tau and Galil are a whole different world?
[01:37:28] <SWPadnos> or do they?
[01:39:47] <bigAl> If we can side step G code and tlak direct with the motion, it will save a lot of processing
[01:40:09] <rayh> I'm really curious, bigAl, what kind of project is this -- or are you not at liberty to say.
[01:40:16] <bigAl> G code isn't that good for what we plan on doing any way.
[01:41:21] <bigAl> rayh, I have probably said enough to get me the sack already.
[01:43:30] <fenn> :0
[01:43:33] <jepler> that's OK, we don't know who you are anyway
[01:43:44] <fenn> looks like they got 'im
[01:43:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:44:11] <SWPadnos> sounds like he's trying to make an embedded controller with sercos drives or something
[01:44:20] <rayh> does.
[01:44:22] <cradek> hi all
[01:44:24] <fenn> fiber optics?
[01:44:25] <jepler> hi cradek
[01:44:32] <SWPadnos> unless the fiber thing is different
[01:44:36] <SWPadnos> hi cradek
[01:44:36] <rayh> canterp would be the way to handle the input of his motion stuff.
[01:44:49] <SWPadnos> well, galil is a much less expensive solution ;)
[01:44:59] <jepler> cradek: I'm still struggling with this CD .. but maybe creating and signing Release is what's needed, and that's what I'm doing now
[01:45:18] <jepler> cradek: I'm also not sure how to do the bootstrap step. I imagined a script on the cd, but apt-cdrom wants to mount and unmount the device to work!
[01:45:43] <SWPadnos> jepler, can you do a kernel "make xconfig" or "make gconfig"?
[01:46:02] <SWPadnos> with the packages you have on the CD
[01:46:07] <jepler> SWPadnos: oh, I'm not sure
[01:46:13] <rayh> night guys.
[01:46:16] <SWPadnos> I think it would be a good thing ;)
[01:46:16] <jepler> I kind doubt it, I didn't make sure that would work
[01:46:18] <SWPadnos> night ray
[01:46:21] <cradek> rayh: see you in a few days
[01:46:27] <rayh> You bet.
[01:46:36] <cradek> jepler: I sure appreciate you working on the cd, it would NOT have gotten done if it was up to me
[01:46:46] <SWPadnos> I had a problem recently, but I can't remember if it was on my aborted Dapper install
[01:48:27] <jepler> cradek: it's not done yet
[01:49:04] <cradek> jepler: it'll work unsigned
[01:50:39] <jepler> gpgv: not a detatched signature
[01:50:41] <jepler> (wtf?)
[01:56:13] <asdfqwega> (wtf?) ... COMMAND ACCEPTED. PROCESSING...
[01:57:41] <asdfqwega> Hm, I'm going to have to look at Ubuntu sometime
[01:57:53] <asdfqwega> Pity I didn't pick up a free CD at Notacon
[02:25:05] <jepler> Can someone explain this? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/smif.png
[02:30:27] <fenn> * fenn storms into the laboratory, shouting "WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS!?"
[02:31:12] <fenn> it's google's poorly executed customer-targeted ads
[02:31:30] <SWPadnos> the smif-n-wessun one is fairly on-target
[02:31:41] <SWPadnos> maybe J&R also sells rap CDs
[02:32:10] <fenn> Looking for Snark? Find exactly what you want today. www.eBay.com
[02:32:28] <SWPadnos> I'd expect to find that on Amazon, actually
[02:32:46] <SWPadnos> but maybe there are some copies on ebay or half.com
[02:32:58] <fenn> Beeblebrox Whatever you're looking for you can get it on eBay. www.eBay.com
[02:33:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:33:10] <SWPadnos> that would be an amazon thing as well ;)
[02:33:24] <fenn> i guess ebay is the default case
[02:33:33] <SWPadnos> I think I like "cheap snark prices at NexTag.com" best
[02:34:03] <Jymmm> google for 'poopoo' Sponsored Links
[02:34:03] <Jymmm> Poo at Amazon.com
[02:34:30] <Jymmm> Sponsored Links
[02:34:30] <Jymmm> Turd
[02:34:30] <Jymmm> Browse a huge selection now
[02:34:30] <Jymmm> Find exactly what you want today
[02:34:30] <Jymmm> www.eBay.com
[02:34:31] <Jymmm> Turd at Amazon.com
[02:34:33] <Jymmm> Low prices on turd.
[02:34:35] <Jymmm> Qualified orders over $25 ship free
[02:34:37] <Jymmm> Amazon.com
[02:34:49] <SWPadnos> les has more than $25 of turd ;)
[02:34:53] <Jymmm> sorry for the flood
[02:35:09] <SWPadnos> Turd at the farmers market
[02:35:16] <Jymmm> buy.com gets 10% off of amazon
[02:36:19] <Jymmm> Is there anyway to PWM an LED wihtout a uC?
[02:36:50] <Jymmm> I'm just trying to get the longest life out of a set of batteries
[02:39:12] <SWPadnos> use a PWM chip
[02:39:20] <SWPadnos> though a uC is probably less expensive
[02:39:25] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[02:39:36] <Jymmm> 555 ?
[08:10:27] <anonimasu> morning
[08:11:27] <chinamill> morning
[08:11:30] <Jymmm> hi anonimasu, just getting ready to hit the bed myself
[08:12:03] <anonimasu> hm ok
[08:12:08] <anonimasu> I am getting ready to go to work soon
[08:12:09] <anonimasu> :
[08:12:11] <anonimasu> :)
[08:12:20] <Jymmm> [05/13 01:11:17] <anonimasu> morning
[08:12:26] <anonimasu> yeah, in a bit
[09:20:47] <alex_joni> morning all
[09:49:38] <chinamill> morning
[10:56:12] <les_w> morning
[10:56:37] <alex_joni> hi guys
[10:57:13] <les_w> amazing low temperatures for mid may this morning
[10:57:17] <les_w> freezing!
[10:58:29] <alex_joni> we had that a few days ago
[10:58:35] <alex_joni> 10-12 C midday
[10:58:38] <alex_joni> now it's 24
[11:01:05] <giacus> hey, morning
[11:02:11] <giacus> les_w: here too, low average temperature
[11:02:32] <giacus> there are no half seasons more
[11:02:32] <les_w> well it's sure cold for 35 degrees north latitude...
[11:03:05] <giacus> well' switch from 15° to 40* in a day ..
[11:03:17] <les_w> wow
[11:03:51] <les_w> well locals call this "blackberry winter"
[11:04:07] <les_w> the blackberrys are getting ripe here
[11:04:13] <les_w> they grow everywhere
[11:04:17] <les_w> like a weed
[11:04:42] <giacus> mmm :(
[11:10:01] <giacus> k4ts is in brescia, going for the matrimony of her nepew
[11:10:32] <giacus> to be married at 18 years old.. crazy peoples :/
[11:12:12] <les_w> 18 wow
[11:12:29] <giacus> yes, too young ..
[11:12:33] <les_w> I waited till 29
[11:13:08] <giacus> after 7-8 they will be one at sud and other at nord ..
[11:13:21] <giacus> I waited 27 too
[11:13:49] <giacus> and with a secure job ..
[11:13:55] <giacus> and house
[11:14:20] <les_w> yes I bought a house shortly after
[11:14:35] <les_w> but I rented a house of my own when I was 21
[11:15:00] <giacus> dunno how they can do.. they have to pay a reny for a house, and they do not work ..
[11:15:06] <giacus> rent*
[11:15:11] <les_w> hmm
[11:15:30] <giacus> and she's no pregnant ..
[11:15:46] <les_w> I went to school a while, then worked, then more school
[11:15:49] <giacus> it just seems she want to get out from her family/house
[11:16:02] <giacus> bad ..
[11:16:55] <les_w> I went to school a lot...changed majors from chemistry to physics to engineering
[11:17:29] <giacus> that's good
[11:17:40] <les_w> heh have a lot of hours
[11:18:06] <giacus> they stop studing at school, just want to live a fable
[11:18:19] <giacus> but the life is hard ..
[11:18:21] <les_w> will need to go back later
[11:19:04] <giacus> bah ..
[11:19:11] <les_w> heh
[11:20:32] <giacus> I just think much peoples can undestard value of what was having just after lost it, not before..
[11:20:59] <giacus> when I heard that things I become very angry :(
[11:21:26] <les_w> well yes
[11:21:36] <les_w> brr more wood on the fire
[11:21:45] <giacus> :)
[11:22:13] <les_w> I have gone back to mostly wood heat....natural gas bills are $1000/month
[11:22:14] <alex_joni> giacus: you familiar with debian?
[11:22:24] <les_w> not me...
[11:22:41] <giacus> alex_joni: I should be , it depend
[11:23:16] <alex_joni> dpkg-scanpackages ?
[11:23:44] <giacus> nope, sorry :(
[11:23:47] <giacus> never used
[11:24:54] <les_w> I have to work today
[11:25:01] <les_w> at leas part of the day
[11:25:40] <les_w> might as well...too cold for gardening or golf
[11:26:39] <les_w> need a clean up day...having to work so fast that there is no time to clean machines
[11:26:52] <les_w> so lathe and mill are covered with chips
[11:27:15] <les_w> bandsaws too
[11:27:24] <les_w> big piles of aluminum dust
[11:29:18] <giacus> take a bit of relax near to fireplace, with a good book, thinking to the next stuff ;P
[11:29:27] <les_w> ha
[11:29:30] <les_w> hard to do
[11:33:15] <giacus> time to eat for me.. later
[13:04:49] <Rocco> hello
[13:08:35] <alex_joni> hello
[14:00:21] <paul_c> Anyone seen Ray ?
[14:01:09] <cradek> hi paul, he just left the channels 10 mins ago.
[14:01:21] <alex_joni> hello
[14:02:24] <paul_c> hi Alex
[14:02:58] <alex_joni> what's up Paul? long time no see..
[14:03:49] <paul_c> been busy.
[14:04:31] <cradek> paul_c: do you know if the bdi4emc mailing list has a maximum post size? jepler has been having trouble getting a message through and thought it might be because it's too long.
[14:05:09] <paul_c> above 10K it gets held for moderation.
[14:05:28] <cradek> ok that's good to know
[14:05:49] <paul_c> the auto-responder should have told him that.
[14:05:56] <cradek> did you disallow his recent message?
[14:06:18] <cradek> ok, I think he would have mentioned that, but maybe he didn't see it for some reason
[14:07:09] <dan_falck> hi paul
[14:07:50] <paul_c> 1) jepler has been told on more than one occasion that my personal CVS repository is off limits.
[14:08:07] <paul_c> 2) He also asked to be silenced on the subject.
[14:08:23] <paul_c> ergo - subject gets dropped.
[14:08:31] <paul_c> Hi Dan
[14:08:36] <cradek> ok, so that's a yes
[14:08:48] <cradek> that's unfortunate
[14:09:07] <cradek> thanks for being straightforward about it.
[14:09:43] <paul_c> bickering about access to my repository does neither side any favours.
[14:11:30] <cradek> do you intend to keep axis on your distribution? if so, you and jepler working together to keep it functional would be pragmatic
[14:12:44] <paul_c> as long as I don't have to mess around patching stuff, it can stay.
[14:13:31] <cradek> without jepler being able to know the changes you make in emc (like the canon interface change) you will have to do the patching yourself to keep it running.
[14:16:50] <paul_c> canon is an internal interface - NML is the public one.
[14:18:05] <cradek> I'm not interested in debating about how axis works. in an open source program, there should be no secret interfaces.
[14:19:07] <alex_joni> is there a commit mailing list for the bdi4emc ?
[14:19:21] <paul_c> bdi4emc is the CD
[14:19:43] <alex_joni> and you do develop it .. right?
[14:20:04] <alex_joni> sorry.. I assumed you use some sort of versioning control
[14:20:34] <alex_joni> and, even if the access to the repository itself is restricted, I thought there might be at least a notify possibility for changes
[14:22:46] <paul_c> main users mailing list is for package inclusion/deletion requests/discussions.
[14:25:14] <alex_joni> I am currently not subscribed to that list, think you could change the emc2 version included?
[14:29:17] <cradek> paul_c: I also want to know the answer to the question jepler is asking (but using many more words): is it on purpose or due to a bug that your users cannot rebuild the bdi emc deb packages using the standard debian way?
[14:34:57] <cradek> hmm
[14:35:05] <cradek> well I'm off to find some breakfast
[14:37:58] <cradek> hi ray, paul was here looking for you but you missed him by two minutes
[14:38:25] <Bo^Dick> as for what i've understood you guys are Linux users
[14:39:23] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: sometimes
[14:39:47] <Bo^Dick> i can't connect my Linux machine to internet for some reason. it was said on the "linux headquarters" site that the coommand /sbin/lsmod would list some devices and i can confirm that the file exists but it won't run
[14:40:01] <alex_joni> try only 'lsmod'
[14:42:03] <Bo^Dick> "command not found"
[14:42:17] <Bo^Dick> could my Linux installation be messed up
[14:42:34] <alex_joni> what linux is this? and are you running as a user? or as root?
[14:42:45] <alex_joni> try 'sudo /sbin/lsmod'
[14:43:02] <Bo^Dick> it's an old redhat 7.1
[14:45:49] <Bo^Dick> what does "sudo" mean?
[14:46:43] <jepler> "sudo" is executes a command as root (or another user). redhat 7.1 probably doesn't have "sudo". It will have "su", which works differently
[14:47:23] <jepler> logger_aj: bookmark
[14:47:23] <jepler> See
[14:47:59] <Bo^Dick> thx, now it worked
[14:48:28] <Bo^Dick> it's a shame they didn't mention that the "su" command was needed on the "linux headquarters" site
[15:06:49] <cradek> wow, that cat on festcam has been there a LONG time
[15:07:12] <alex_joni> festcam?
[15:08:09] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/festcam.jpg
[15:08:23] <cradek> I think jmk intends to have a webcam at fest, and this is the test
[15:09:13] <alex_joni> coo
[15:10:38] <rayh> Nice.
[15:10:55] <dan_falck> lazy cat
[15:11:45] <rayh> Bo^Dick, The standard bdi install requires the /sbin ahead of many of these commands.
[15:11:54] <rayh> When you are a user.
[15:12:31] <rayh> You can become root and have a more complete path to linux commands.
[15:28:04] <chinamill> Hello; Does anyone know any implementation of a game pad controller in EMC? Like http://www.dynatorch.com/Joystick.htm
[15:32:52] <jepler> chinamill: I wrote this. It doesn't work with analog sticks, and I haven't tested it in a long time. http://emergent.unpy.net/software/01119021973
[15:40:31] <fenn> there is a hal driver for joysticks but no pins in the motion controller to connect it to yet
[15:41:36] <chinamill> jepler, I guess that does not work woth emc2?
[15:41:55] <chinamill> fenn: ok
[15:42:43] <jepler> chinamill: I haven't tested it lately. the python interface to emc1 and emc2 is mostly the same, though.
[15:42:57] <chinamill> ok
[15:54:53] <dmessier> bon jour tous
[15:57:13] <chinamill> Bonjour!
[16:11:49] <chinamill> dmessier: êtes-vous français?
[16:13:15] <anonimasu> heh
[16:13:49] <SWPadnos> chinamill, have you looked at hal_joystick?
[16:14:13] <chinamill> SWPadnos: not yet, have you?
[16:14:15] <SWPadnos> nevermind - fenn already mentioned it
[16:14:21] <SWPadnos> nope ;)
[16:14:31] <SWPadnos> maybe I should add some joysticks to the stuff for fest
[16:14:32] <chinamill> ok, thanks anyway
[16:14:49] <fenn> SWPadnos: then we can play "rock em sock em mazaks"
[16:15:06] <fenn> its like battlebots but better
[16:15:24] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm wondering if we can get my force feedback stick to do something cool
[16:15:40] <fenn> like make really annoying chatter noises?
[16:15:50] <anonimasu> heh
[16:15:53] <anonimasu> real feedbac
[16:15:53] <anonimasu> k
[16:18:00] <fenn> is it force feedback like, push on it and it pushes back? or a little motor that buzzes in your hand
[16:20:27] <SWPadnos> it resists motion, or "kicks" under software control
[16:21:02] <SWPadnos> the demo is kinda cool - there are "bowshots". "gunshots", and a "helicopter" mode that vibrates and pulls a bit
[16:24:28] <anonimasu> yep
[16:26:17] <dmessier> cool... i remember Hurco's with a track ball...
[16:30:40] <dmessier> my wife washed my USB stick.. ;)
[16:33:16] <giacus> dmessier: mmm neat :D
[16:33:40] <anonimasu> dmessier: is it alive?
[16:34:13] <giacus> how could be possible ?
[16:35:17] <giacus> no hope..
[16:36:10] <giacus> dmessier: btw you're lucky, I losted a cellphone in that way !
[16:42:07] <dmessier> good to go... ;)
[16:42:52] <dmessier> i ran over a cell phone with both wheels of my suburban .. and it survived... : )
[16:43:39] <dmessier> im readin the wiki stuff for classic ladder and Hal
[16:49:46] <fenn> dmessier: did it go through the drier too?
[16:54:08] <dmessier> im not sure..
[16:54:42] <dmessier> but she handed it to me and said " here its nice and shiney and clean"
[16:55:56] <anonimasu> :)
[16:56:11] <dmessier> i just seen my 2nd baby robin fall out the nest today... i walked it down to the creek..
[16:57:35] <dmessier> the pug found the first one for me... i tried to pick it up and was PROMPTLY scolded by 2 VERY irate full grown Robins at 24" proximity... way cool in the mornin' ; )
[17:01:59] <dmessier> classic ladder looks like the "CAT's MEOW" to me... ; ) i Like it
[17:03:14] <anonimasu> ?
[17:03:34] <dmessier> very well done..
[17:04:27] <dmessier> if your trting to tie ALL things to 1 cpu .. and timer..
[17:04:35] <dmessier> trying
[17:08:11] <dmessier> i could build a ladder in ther that would be a security sytem for the SHOP ... while the machine cuts unattended...
[17:08:42] <dmessier> cut to sinet mode when folks are close... ; )
[17:08:49] <dmessier> silent
[17:09:45] <dmessier> we now have the preliminary base for an adaptive control also
[17:10:10] <fenn> you mean g33 and all that?
[17:10:50] <dmessier> no i mean spindle load monitoring and worn tool detection capability
[17:11:06] <fenn> yeah
[17:11:29] <dmessier> where's ther g33 documentation
[17:11:33] <fenn> i meant using the spindle-sync code to slow feedrate in response to spindle load
[17:11:51] <fenn> eh, i dont think there is a whole lot, it'd be on the wiki somewhere
[17:12:26] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?SpindleSynchronizedMotion
[17:12:44] <fenn> beyond that, you'd have to look at the source
[17:12:51] <dmessier> sync code can do it...but the monitoring needs base line data .. is tere a g32 that reads a baseline power
[17:13:10] <fenn> no i think you'd do that in hal
[17:13:22] <fenn> oh, wait that changes for each type of cut right?
[17:13:58] <dmessier> you need to READ 3 part minimum to get baseline...
[17:14:33] <dmessier> map tape/ machine position to load
[17:15:15] <dmessier> establish a controled process... no halts.. for operator intervention
[17:15:54] <dmessier> best used for SMALL dia cutters only.. the overhead on the TOshiba 888 was exorbitant
[17:16:00] <fenn> i'd rather have an encoder on the spindle and constant feed/rev
[17:16:41] <dmessier> agreed... fpt must be consistent... NOT feed...
[17:16:52] <dmessier> sfm will be sacrificed
[17:17:11] <fenn> well, better than breaking a bit off
[17:17:14] <dmessier> but chip load maintained
[17:17:39] <anonimasu> hm, I am curious when somone will build a edm running with emc :)
[17:17:47] <fenn> next week
[17:17:59] <anonimasu> lol
[17:18:02] <anonimasu> for real?
[17:18:11] <fenn> watch it live on the festcam-o-rama
[17:18:19] <fenn> well, that's the goal
[17:18:21] <dmessier> if a worn tool is detected it needs a sister tool to replace it inmacro.. with all necessary tool lenghts being swappable out
[17:18:36] <anonimasu> I am mostly curious about the reversal thing..
[17:18:37] <anonimasu> :
[17:18:38] <anonimasu> :)
[17:18:40] <fenn> dmessier: that would be nice eh?
[17:19:19] <anonimasu> :)
[17:19:19] <dmessier> em is a macro builders dream... NO problem to use EMC
[17:19:20] <fenn> dmessier: i think you'd need tool length probing for enough reliability to leave unattended
[17:19:41] <fenn> anonimasu: yes that's mostly what the problem is
[17:20:00] <fenn> that and the standard retrofit crap
[17:20:03] <dmessier> we have capability within classic ladder to make a skip signal... ALL we need
[17:20:37] <anonimasu> fenn: need cnc to build cnc ;)
[17:20:52] <fenn> well, that's what i'm doing
[17:20:58] <fenn> or, would be doing if i werent so lazy
[17:21:04] <dmessier> use a marposs R/F probe comes with all necessary h/ware...
[17:21:28] <fenn> anonimasu: i need to figure out the hexapod equivalent of a lathe
[17:21:36] <dmessier> i input... stop the drives..
[17:21:40] <dmessier> 1
[17:21:47] <anonimasu> fenn: why?
[17:21:57] <fenn> so i can have a "team"
[17:22:08] <fenn> hexapod isnt very good for lathe stuff you know
[17:22:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:22:25] <fenn> and lathes are big and heavy and hard to manufacture just like milling machines are
[17:22:38] <anonimasu> fenn: cant you havea rotary axis on a hexapod?
[17:22:53] <fenn> i thought about it and it's really not very good
[17:23:07] <fenn> i mean you can do some lathe stuff in plastic or wax or something no problem
[17:23:12] <fenn> or using live tooling
[17:23:20] <fenn> but making a ballscrew? no way
[17:23:46] <dmessier> linear motors... ; )
[17:23:55] <fenn> yeah i just gotta figure out how to make em
[17:23:59] <dmessier> no screw
[17:24:08] <dmessier> buy em
[17:24:12] <anonimasu> very expensive :
[17:24:14] <anonimasu> :)
[17:24:15] <fenn> cylindrical linear motors would be perfect, and probably not that hard to make
[17:24:30] <dmessier> reasonable for their capacity
[17:24:40] <fenn> still need a lathe to make even that though
[17:24:45] <anonimasu> dmessier: this is hobby stuff..
[17:24:58] <fenn> yeah i cant afford a regular servo motor
[17:25:02] <dmessier> there are some on the DMG machines... ck em out
[17:25:09] <fenn> DMG?
[17:25:13] <anonimasu> a dmg machine costs more then the house I live in..
[17:25:23] <anonimasu> my reseller has some small ones costs 1000eur..
[17:25:24] <dmessier> deckel maho- gildemister
[17:25:35] <anonimasu> err linear motors ;)
[17:25:36] <fenn> oh, a conglomeration of all the oldies
[17:25:54] <dmessier> si
[17:26:27] <dmessier> kick ass equipment though... i was applications engineer for a while
[17:26:56] <dmessier> i ove whacking BRAND NEW EQUIPMENT.... ; )
[17:27:54] <dmessier> i turned a 12 lobe cam on a brand new machin... hade the service guys confinced it was fackin' up... i wanted a cylinder... LOL
[17:28:17] <anonimasu> lol
[17:28:36] <anonimasu> how do you turn a cam?
[17:28:41] <anonimasu> rotary + mill?
[17:28:47] <anonimasu> or lathe + live tooling?
[17:30:57] <dmessier> lathe tool with lots of clearance... in milling mode at maximum a-axis revs.... ; )
[17:31:37] <fenn> are acme threads normally cut with a 29 degree Vee tool or a trapezoid shaped tool or what?
[17:31:42] <dmessier> map the lobe 1 time with z-ais feeds... and call the loop toll you run out of material
[17:31:59] <dmessier> trap..
[17:32:12] <anonimasu> what axis is a ?
[17:32:18] <fenn> is it a big PITA because of the low tool pressure?
[17:32:32] <dmessier> but from 2 sides.. so the tool bit isnt the fill width of the finished form
[17:33:06] <dmessier> sorry C... it was around the Z
[17:33:42] <fenn> ok.. so how do you feed the bit in the Z direction without moving the compound setting?
[17:33:45] <dmessier> High tool pressure... lotsa tool in contact
[17:34:03] <anonimasu> ah
[17:34:04] <anonimasu> cool :)
[17:34:23] <fenn> hrm i think i have it figured out
[17:34:25] <dmessier> its a 4/5 axis turnin center
[17:35:23] <dmessier> the tool went in and oput like a woodpecker... thats why i had the service guys freakin... the whole SHOP vibrated when i set this OFF
[17:36:21] <dmessier> it move in/ out in x 24 x in 1 rec of the c...and move about .024 in z
[17:36:24] <fenn> thats amusing
[17:36:27] <dmessier> rev
[17:36:49] <dmessier> then it would part it off... LOL
[17:37:05] <anonimasu> what kind of precision did the cams end up at?
[17:37:08] <anonimasu> ;)
[17:37:18] <dmessier> in lathe mode workin fine... service hated me for that 1 for a yr
[17:37:45] <dmessier> +/- .003-005 "
[17:38:10] <dmessier> in aluminum...
[17:38:26] <anonimasu> ah ok :)
[17:38:49] <dmessier> it was a test to see if we could at least get the code to run thru... automotive application..
[17:39:08] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:39:48] <dmessier> i had the wronh machine for their part .. dit could show basic capability... which NO other machine tool deare could at the time
[17:40:14] <fenn> how long did it take?
[17:40:27] <dmessier> the machine wasnt even bolted down...LOL
[17:40:36] <dmessier> 1 week...
[17:40:42] <fenn> 1 week??
[17:41:12] <dmessier> start of program to test parts and a pissed off service dept... yeay
[17:41:22] <dmessier> ro you mean to make...
[17:41:29] <fenn> time per part
[17:42:36] <dmessier> it would turs aboit 2" of cam in 30 seconds at about 3 " dia.... customer part was 6" dia... so we were bring extreme on the drives..
[17:43:15] <dmessier> their part was 0.5 " thick
[17:43:43] <dmessier> so it all came down to time in cut
[17:45:01] <dmessier> i wanted to try it on one of their rotary Swiss-style machines... but with 6 lathes bouncing around IM positive id have BLOWN it up
[17:45:56] <dmessier> i turned a cnc lath into a rotary axis shaper.... LOL..
[17:46:36] <dmessier> i believe i had a 200 rpm cap on the rotary axis...
[17:47:06] <dmessier> as a lathe it had 8000 rpm capacity...
[17:48:15] <fenn> cut some hypoid gears with it?
[17:48:19] <dmessier> i'm looking for a big old dinosaur cnc to come available... then CODEFEST comes to Canada
[17:48:52] <dmessier> not gears...but low transition lobes
[17:50:18] <dmessier> twin pallet... 60 tools...add an extra trunnion rotary to 1 pallet
[18:06:37] <robin_sz> evening ...
[18:07:38] <giacus> hi robin_sz
[18:07:44] <robin_sz> are you well?
[18:07:54] <dmessier> allo Robin_sz
[18:08:03] <giacus> well, almost ready for dinner
[18:08:28] <robin_sz> been busy looking at robots
[18:08:37] <dmessier> robin... you parapente??
[18:08:42] <giacus> found something of nice ?
[18:08:43] <robin_sz> yeah a bit
[18:08:59] <robin_sz> dmessier, dont get mush time for it these days
[18:09:00] <dmessier> hrs?? flights??
[18:09:19] <robin_sz> dmessier, oh, I dunno, couple of hundred flights maybe
[18:09:37] <dmessier> i only have 25 hrs... 250 flights
[18:09:52] <robin_sz> moistly in the UK, but a bit in france and the alps
[18:10:21] <dmessier> 1 alpine launch... all the rest are tow launch
[18:10:33] <robin_sz> never towed ...
[18:11:21] <robin_sz> domne a few launches off skis though :)
[18:11:58] <dmessier> i designed 2 and built 1 of the 4 step towing rigs in Ontario Canada.. i've maintained ALL of them
[18:12:05] <robin_sz> nice
[18:12:32] <robin_sz> I know the theory of towing, never had the opportunity to try it
[18:12:39] <robin_sz> we have hills here :)
[18:13:26] <robin_sz> UK flying, especially in wales is probably different to anything you have tried
[18:13:39] <dmessier> all nee a saure-sundtrand series 90 - hydrostatic unit,,, USEFULL info if you plan to LIVE thru testing it prior to delivery
[18:13:46] <dmessier> need
[18:14:20] <anonimasu> what kind of thing is that?
[18:14:32] <dmessier> dont TRY to go cheap... its NOT worth losing a buddy
[18:14:45] <anonimasu> towing planes?
[18:14:55] <robin_sz> the only tow rig I have seen was built on a DAF Variomatic unit
[18:15:16] <robin_sz> a sort of ealry continously variable gear unit on a small car
[18:15:38] <dmessier> its a nice NEAT unit... whaen mated to the correct presssure controller allows for us to control LINE pressure.. not speed...
[18:15:59] <anonimasu> hm..
[18:16:08] <dmessier> it is a continuosly variable hydraulic pump
[18:16:10] <anonimasu> that sounds just like a regular valve...
[18:16:10] <robin_sz> I can see how that would be useful
[18:16:23] <anonimasu> or rather that is ;)
[18:16:30] <dmessier> swash plate design
[18:16:50] <dmessier> variable pison displacment
[18:16:59] <robin_sz> well, we have hills here, so tow lauch is quite rare
[18:17:28] <robin_sz> mostly slope-soaring, in the lift band of the hill
[18:17:46] <robin_sz> typically 50 to 100 feet above ground
[18:17:56] <robin_sz> but 10 feet is common too :)
[18:18:18] <dmessier> we hook tha to the proper drum sproket/hydraulic motor sprocket... and viola... 72 mph capability on the downwind... ; )
[18:18:22] <robin_sz> infact ... my harness has plenty of marks on the base from coming too close :)
[18:18:46] <robin_sz> yeah?
[18:18:55] <robin_sz> modern gliders are quite quick I guess ..
[18:19:09] <dmessier> LOL we call that "kicin' squils"
[18:19:33] <dmessier> squirrels
[18:19:49] <robin_sz> lots of UK flying ends up like that ... you learn a lot of control flying a narrow llift band at 10 feet
[18:20:07] <dmessier> SHITE
[18:20:21] <robin_sz> where?
[18:20:33] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ducks
[18:21:06] <dmessier> i crear and launch .. inflate... clear lines.... go.... and am at 150 in 30 sec.... 1000' in 1.5 min
[18:21:44] <dmessier> YOU dont want to BLOW a weak link...
[18:21:56] <dmessier> been there..
[18:22:30] <dmessier> i did in 1 wrist a back and an ankle from 150' when a tow goes bad...
[18:22:37] <robin_sz> I can imagine ...
[18:22:47] <robin_sz> just locks out and round you go?
[18:23:03] <robin_sz> your tow rigs fitted with line cutters?
[18:23:34] <dmessier> we've since lerned..i was flying the wing the tow operater was planing in buying
[18:24:38] <dmessier> hook knive for the op.. but as far as para towing goes... WE are it... www.uflyontario.com
[18:24:47] <robin_sz> right
[18:25:16] <robin_sz> the rig I saw had spring loaded guillotines for the lines ... just pull a lever, its cut
[18:25:33] <dmessier> alot of HG there now... RAY has since had a TRANFOMATION.... hes BI now...LOL
[18:25:46] <robin_sz> he
[18:25:56] <dmessier> i made 1 for a guy in the us
[18:26:12] <robin_sz> never tried paramotor?
[18:26:26] <robin_sz> that kinda interests me
[18:27:06] <dmessier> my wing has para motor scars... not mine... the guy who died.... NOT
[18:27:19] <robin_sz> heh
[18:27:36] <dmessier> the mmotor is waiting for me... i dont know if i want it
[18:27:47] <robin_sz> thats the only thing that worries me .. the lines will get caught up
[18:28:20] <dmessier> no... the shroud is usualy good..
[18:28:31] <robin_sz> some are only shrouded at the front
[18:28:44] <dmessier> we flew the Mosquito HG powerd rig....
[18:29:06] <dmessier> theres a mouthfull...
[18:29:20] <dmessier> bite thropttle
[18:29:54] <dmessier> whats the first thing you do when SHIT happens...
[18:30:14] <dmessier> you bite down....
[18:30:37] <dmessier> welcome to wide open throttle..
[18:30:49] <dmessier> SPIT IT OUT
[18:31:48] <dmessier> we ended up towiny to 750-1000' then starting the motor....
[18:37:16] <dmessier> we had a guy tow up and head for the city.... landed on the apron of Buttonville airport... he's a military pilot and flew the pie down... freaked out the cessna's on final...LOL he went to 9950' to keep it legal on that flight
[18:38:59] <dmessier> he IS an AWESOME instructor... ray went the Dominican for 2 weeks with him and now has more are time than ME
[18:39:38] <dmessier> air
[18:43:30] <dmessier> radio instruction... full time...IF he has a visual... Ray went cloud bustin' big ear desent...
[18:43:58] <dmessier> was inside for 10-15 minutes...
[18:44:05] <robin_sz> heh
[18:44:14] <robin_sz> doen big ears many times ...
[18:44:18] <dmessier> inside THE cloud
[18:44:20] <robin_sz> only HAD to do it once :)
[18:44:55] <dmessier> he learned... fast.. i have still TO need them
[18:45:03] <robin_sz> when it going up and getting rough, spiral dives no longer look so attractive :)
[18:46:11] <dmessier> i do them... but in control... when it start to get rowdy... straight.. and EARS
[18:46:46] <dmessier> i can land ANYWHERE
[18:46:56] <robin_sz> yeah yeah ...
[18:47:22] <dmessier> HG is a different lz problem...
[18:47:41] <robin_sz> seen HG do a "fly on the wall" on a steep hill?
[18:47:57] <dmessier> you have landing issues i see LOL
[18:48:29] <dmessier> NEver land up hill... downwind...
[18:48:40] <robin_sz> seen it done ...
[18:49:00] <dmessier> hurts BAD.. sympathies
[18:49:10] <robin_sz> nah, the guy did it right
[18:49:18] <robin_sz> turn in, push out ..
[18:49:37] <dmessier> and SHOVEL IT
[18:49:43] <robin_sz> yep
[18:50:09] <dmessier> i try ot to set myself up for that sort of stuff
[18:50:14] <dmessier> not
[18:50:22] <robin_sz> seen PG land fast downwind on a slope with ravines across it
[18:50:40] <robin_sz> miss the top of a ravine and catch the upslop of the far side ...
[18:50:48] <robin_sz> I swear he bounced up 2m
[18:50:49] <dmessier> hard on the back side...
[18:51:10] <robin_sz> and trees. we have trees here you know.
[18:51:28] <robin_sz> if you have a hill, and a tree and some beginners .. what do they all focus on?
[18:51:51] <dmessier> i dont mind TREE landings... practiced them..by accident.. HG and PG
[18:52:23] <dmessier> object fixation is the technical term
[18:52:35] <robin_sz> well, the trouble is, after the first guy has ended up in the tree ... the rest of them are so busy staring at him, they end up in the tree too
[18:52:37] <robin_sz> yep
[18:52:38] <dmessier> been there seen it
[18:52:46] <robin_sz> we had three of them at once :)
[18:53:07] <dmessier> LOL.... foot launch??
[18:53:12] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:53:34] <robin_sz> that was "Hay Bluff" I think ...
[18:54:27] <dmessier> we had a TREE on the tow line.... i used to make them look at it for 1 full minute.. then tell them to never look at it again
[18:55:17] <robin_sz> http://freespace.virgin.net/glasbury.scouts/hay%20bluff.jpg
[18:55:24] <robin_sz> hay bluff, classic PG site
[18:55:26] <dmessier> we had a Mig pilot want to learn.. he trie to go thr a tree line...
[18:56:15] <dmessier> almost made it... hit a tree at 6' and spun
[18:56:49] <dmessier> throwing himself out the other side of the tree line
[18:57:02] <dmessier> facing into it
[18:57:45] <robin_sz> ooh ..
[18:57:55] <robin_sz> heres one of my favourite sites ...
[18:57:58] <robin_sz> http://www.flywelshborders.org.uk/gallery/fforest-farm-from-the-air.html
[18:58:03] <dmessier> stope... fine
[18:58:03] <robin_sz> fforest farm
[18:58:44] <dmessier> www.highperspective.com
[18:59:52] <dmessier> i'd fly that.... on appiontment
[19:00:43] <robin_sz> its a nice site
[19:01:18] <dmessier> whats you MAX air time??
[19:01:24] <robin_sz> not long ...
[19:01:30] <dmessier> nor i
[19:01:34] <robin_sz> 1 hour or so max
[19:02:08] <dmessier> i made 1.25 hrs... but i have many over the hour
[19:02:33] <dmessier> i need a 2-6 hr flight
[19:02:55] <robin_sz> id say mine are mostly quite short, but thats probably because my glider is ancient :)
[19:02:59] <dmessier> for sanity redemtion
[19:03:22] <dmessier> so is mine.. what do you fly??
[19:03:34] <robin_sz> very very ancient :)
[19:03:41] <dmessier> i fly an APCO 27
[19:03:46] <robin_sz> Harley 'Typhoon' .. ancient
[19:04:02] <robin_sz> had an Ailes de K pantair before that
[19:04:09] <robin_sz> that was scary ...
[19:04:34] <dmessier> i'll send you mine when i upgrade...
[19:04:47] <robin_sz> it gets so little use these days, so its ancient but still flies
[19:04:50] <dmessier> soon i
[19:05:05] <dmessier> hope
[19:05:07] <robin_sz> I think there are many good gliders now
[19:05:22] <robin_sz> much safer than mine
[19:05:23] <dmessier> we ar ages from 2000
[19:05:39] <robin_sz> mine is '98 I think
[19:05:48] <dmessier> mine is a trainer
[19:06:03] <dmessier> '98 or so
[19:06:42] <dmessier> did it hace certification of any sort??
[19:06:47] <dmessier> have
[19:07:05] <robin_sz> yeah ..
[19:07:22] <robin_sz> it was before DHV though
[19:07:31] <robin_sz> Ithink it was ACPULS then
[19:07:38] <asdfqwega> booyah!
[19:07:54] <robin_sz> Ithink it got mainly 1, with a 2 for asymetric tucks
[19:07:58] <dmessier> www.uflyontario.com mine is still only acpuls cert
[19:08:26] <dmessier> acpul 1-2
[19:08:36] <robin_sz> anyway ... I think I will buy this http://www.robotsltd.co.uk/ABB-IRB1400.htm ;) .. alright,, its not a wing, but it looks fun :)
[19:10:54] <dmessier> look for an old CRS robotics arm.... canuck made and you arent resticted to the AB s/ware
[19:11:37] <dmessier> we have 1 of them... robotic deburring application
[19:11:46] <dmessier> the abb
[19:12:14] <robin_sz> these look cheap for what you get
[19:12:18] <robin_sz> 5K GBP
[19:14:05] <dmessier> brb... ; )
[19:22:47] <giacus`> giacus` is now known as giacus
[19:27:37] <fenn> hmmmm i am seriously wondering about using RTnet to talk to my motor controllers
[19:29:55] <skunkworks> god - I wish I had half of the knowlege of linux you do.
[19:30:35] <fenn> bah, i just act like i know what i'm talking about and it seems to work
[19:31:04] <fenn> RTnet is a realtime ethernet driver
[19:31:10] <skunkworks> I figured
[19:31:34] <skunkworks> No really - I figured thats what rtnet was.
[19:31:43] <fenn> see right now the plan is to have a thing that hooks up to a parallel port and talks to the individual controllers via i2c or spi
[19:32:02] <fenn> but i'm using cat5 cable because its cheap and has nice connectors and low noise etc etc
[19:32:12] <fenn> so i got to thinking.. what if i added the option to use ethernet instead
[19:32:16] <skunkworks> high bandwidth
[19:32:45] <skunkworks> are you planing on doing pid in the controllers then?
[19:33:12] <fenn> no, not in this version at least
[19:33:22] <fenn> but its "just software" so maybe
[19:33:45] <skunkworks> so - your just going to send it digital level - and send back the encoder info?
[19:33:54] <fenn> the atmega48 might not have enough memory to store all that code, i'd have to use something bigger
[19:34:04] <fenn> skunkworks: right
[19:34:07] <skunkworks> nice
[19:34:08] <fenn> torque mode
[19:34:17] <fenn> do all the pid crap in emc
[19:34:28] <fenn> use the auto-tuning script you're going to write :)
[19:34:46] <skunkworks> Don't hold your breath :)
[19:35:15] <skunkworks> My plan is just to do the psudo pwm out and read the encoder into the parrelel port.
[19:35:27] <skunkworks> like jmk and jepler have done
[19:35:37] <skunkworks> maybe a little bigger servos though
[19:35:54] <skunkworks> faster computers are cheap and should handle it I hope
[19:36:00] <fenn> hmmm
[19:36:13] <fenn> parallel port wouldnt have much resolution on the pwm signal
[19:36:19] <fenn> unless its really slow
[19:36:34] <giacus> * giacus likes skunkworks plan :P
[19:36:45] <fenn> yeah might as well try it and see if it works
[19:36:50] <skunkworks> - like I said - once I get it working - a card that does pwm out and encoder in will be next
[19:36:59] <fenn> but thats goofy
[19:37:08] <fenn> why get it working and then spend more money?
[19:37:57] <skunkworks> more like - if I can't get it to perform with a few parrallel ports - I know I should get the performance I want with a card. If that makes sense - start cheap :)
[19:38:07] <fenn> ok that makes sense
[19:38:20] <skunkworks> bbl
[19:46:49] <dmessier> i like the sound of that
[19:47:40] <jepler> fenn: If base_period is 50us and servo_period is 1ms, then each servo control period can give one of 20 different duty cycles. (1ms / 50us = 20). but over one second there are 20000 different duty cycles. My servo motors say they have a mechanical time constant of 30ms, or 1500 different duty cycles per mechanical time constant.
[19:47:50] <jepler> lower the base_period to 20us and everything gets better by a factor of 2.5
[19:48:16] <asdfqwega> ooo-er
[19:49:03] <asdfqwega> make in emc2:release seems to have a recursive loop in /emc2/src/hal/components
[19:50:05] <jepler> asdfqwega: I'll take a look. I'm not aware of such a problem.
[19:50:20] <jepler> how did you download the emc2 source?
[19:50:20] <asdfqwega> jepler: it may be just me
[19:50:33] <asdfqwega> I have the tarball
[19:50:42] <jepler> the one from sourceforge?
[19:50:57] <asdfqwega> hm...
[19:51:22] <asdfqwega> aw nuts...my mistake...wrong tarball
[19:51:31] <asdfqwega> this is what happens when you don't keep your /home clean
[19:51:53] <jepler> asdfqwega: no problem. if you run into any more problems, don't hesitate to ask.
[19:52:54] <jepler> * jepler runs a configure --enable-run-in-place && make on emc2.0.0.tar.gz just to be sure
[19:53:04] <asdfqwega> heh...an old tarball of emc2 cvs as of august 2005
[19:53:49] <jepler> you might as well remove that one now
[19:54:17] <jepler> compile's done!
[19:54:20] <asdfqwega> already have
[19:57:09] <asdfqwega> note to self: make tarballs only with date tags in name
[19:57:59] <jepler> it's too bad the emc2.0.0 tarball doesn't have the version number in the directory name
[19:59:54] <asdfqwega> w00t! here we go...
[20:01:05] <asdfqwega> em2.0.0 with axis 1.3
[20:01:18] <dmessier> the kids have untied/tangled one of my traction kites.... i think i need to rebridle it now... ; )
[20:02:22] <dmessier> i mean untied any knot they could find.. and manage...
[20:02:57] <dmessier> it bites to be ME
[20:03:17] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has a small kite
[20:04:11] <asdfqwega> jepler: with etch-servo, do you know what the PWM output frequency is?
[20:04:14] <giacus> hello robin_sz
[20:04:48] <robin_sz> giacus, yeah
[20:05:07] <giacus> any link for your nick ?
[20:05:12] <robin_sz> dmessier, got a 6m2 flexifoil "skytiger" here :)
[20:05:18] <giacus> you have very interesting stuffs :D
[20:05:22] <robin_sz> link for my nick?
[20:05:27] <giacus> yeah
[20:05:39] <dmessier> i had 2 1.8m tangled... and my daughter and friends "worked " on it...
[20:06:06] <giacus> robin_sz: here http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc.html
[20:06:19] <dmessier> now i have 3.6m tangled - unbridled... ahhhhh
[20:06:27] <robin_sz> 1.8m? they make them that small?
[20:06:56] <dmessier> its a BUMBLE BEE on STAROIDS...
[20:07:00] <robin_sz> heh
[20:07:09] <dmessier> hold on
[20:07:09] <asdfqwega> jepler: I've looked at writing a pwm module, but when I started wanting 1-99% duty cycle for a 5 kHz signal, the period needed started getting extremely low
[20:07:24] <robin_sz> hey, ever tried putting a paraglider on kite lines ?
[20:07:33] <anonimasu> asdfqwega: any idea about feeding it to a pwm chip?
[20:07:39] <anonimasu> err thought about it?
[20:08:01] <dmessier> yes... ive had the apco on 100' lines... anchored to the planet
[20:08:16] <robin_sz> I tried it ... had to take bout 100mm out of the front risers to get it to go though
[20:08:30] <robin_sz> was real slow compared to a power kite
[20:08:52] <dmessier> i screwed alot with the risers too
[20:09:02] <asdfqwega> anon: already thought of, but I was curious about what jepler got working
[20:09:04] <dmessier> bigger is slower
[20:09:08] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:09:24] <giacus> robin_sz: I'm tryng to increase the diffusion of channel, making it more popoular, any help would be appreciated :)
[20:09:24] <dmessier> i hated the firs 12 m kite i flew....
[20:09:35] <giacus> I know you're a VIP :D
[20:09:49] <robin_sz> giacus, I am rarely on here .. hardly VIP
[20:09:56] <giacus> hehe
[20:10:06] <jepler> asdfqwega: well, freqmod is not really PWM
[20:10:16] <robin_sz> shit, my arms are full of glass fibre
[20:10:36] <dmessier> i hope to fetch a tandem rating this summer.. for para..
[20:10:37] <robin_sz> trying to get birds out of the loft
[20:11:03] <robin_sz> dmessier, kewl ... for tow?
[20:11:03] <robin_sz> they two tandem?
[20:11:03] <robin_sz> tow
[20:11:12] <dmessier> si
[20:11:18] <jepler> asdfqwega: I've used both 20us and 50us as base period. that means that up to 50% duty cycle, the output is made up of 20us "high" ouputs with variable-sized "low" outputs; above 50% it's the reverse.
[20:11:27] <dmessier> its easier... pull me...
[20:11:28] <giacus> si ?? :-)
[20:11:38] <dmessier> yes
[20:12:05] <dmessier> we tow everything.... ; )
[20:12:32] <dmessier> its my winch design after all...
[20:12:34] <asdfqwega> dmessier: You sound a bit tow-headed
[20:13:00] <dmessier> sorry its aLL we have to get sky-high
[20:13:21] <dmessier> flat land ontario
[20:14:11] <dmessier> you can see level by how fla lake ontario looks
[20:14:18] <dmessier> flat
[20:14:53] <dmessier> or witch way the CNtower is pointing...
[20:16:12] <dmessier> its NOT nice to see it from the UP side
[20:16:35] <dmessier> big end down is bad
[20:18:40] <jepler> asdfqwega: freqmod is most like "PDM", I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-density_modulation
[20:20:15] <jepler> asdfqwega: that article refers to converting the digital signal back to analog with a low-pass filter. In the case of a servo motor, the servo motor itself is a low-pass filter, both because of the L/R time constant of its inductor, and because mechanically it will tend to continue turning after power is removed (for a short time)
[20:20:19] <asdfqwega> jepler: What I'm after is a signal to a Synrad laser. They say use a standard 5kHz PWM, with a 1% tickle signal
[20:20:57] <robin_sz> is the laser pulsed?
[20:21:10] <robin_sz> or cw?
[20:21:42] <robin_sz> I suspect its CW and they are LPF the pwm signal to get a DC voltage
[20:21:44] <asdfqwega> essentially pulsed, since running at 100% doesn't really give performance gains, just more heat
[20:21:56] <asdfqwega> it's a CO2
[20:22:11] <robin_sz> how many wats?
[20:22:13] <robin_sz> 100?
[20:22:16] <asdfqwega> 10W
[20:22:19] <jepler> asdfqwega: so you mean you need to make a pulse that is as narrow as 2 microseconds (1% of 200us)? Yeah, I don't think you'll achieve that in software on a pc
[20:22:56] <robin_sz> it might be pulsed ... shrug ...
[20:22:58] <asdfqwega> <grins> That was my assesment as well
[20:23:34] <jepler> asdfqwega: Do you only need to generate a 1% duty cycle, or do you need other duty cycles as well?
[20:23:56] <jepler> if you only need one duty cycle, an external 555 activated by a digital I/O might work
[20:23:58] <asdfqwega> jepler: from 1% to 95%
[20:24:19] <jepler> ah, forget it then
[20:24:30] <robin_sz> ive not seen pulsing that fast on a YAG, due to the flourescence liftime of the rod, but maybe CO2 will pulse that fast
[20:24:33] <anonimasu> there are pwm chips out there too
[20:25:03] <asdfqwega> robin: transverse rf-excited
[20:25:14] <robin_sz> yes, I know the synradslabs
[20:25:17] <robin_sz> slabs
[20:25:30] <robin_sz> ther was a 100w slab on ebay last week
[20:25:45] <anonimasu> why not run a chip like that?
[20:26:19] <asdfqwega> I'm planning on it, but if it was possible to do it in software, I'd do that instead
[20:26:41] <robin_sz> no one bought hte laser I put on ebay :(
[20:27:00] <giacus> robin_sz: how much ? :P
[20:27:06] <robin_sz> £450
[20:27:18] <asdfqwega> In emc2 all I need to do is make some hal output for 8-bits, and I'll do the rest
[20:27:19] <giacus> url ?
[20:27:48] <robin_sz> search on ebay.co.uk for "ferranti laser" in closed sales
[20:30:21] <giacus> I'm not a good ebayer :(°
[20:30:23] <robin_sz> whatever, 450W co2 for 450 quid
[20:30:23] <jepler> asdfqwega: yeah, I don't think any existing component will do that.
[20:31:06] <asdfqwega> jepler: actually, I could work with a PDM signal, no problem
[20:31:36] <jepler> asdfqwega: the narrowest pulse will be one base_period wide, that's OK too?
[20:32:09] <asdfqwega> convert to analog, and a couple of 555's, and voila, I've got my 5kHz PWM
[20:32:21] <jepler> yes that sure could work
[20:32:43] <jepler> PDM -> voltage -> PWM
[20:33:48] <asdfqwega> I'll just need to be able to set the PDM with motor speed or somesuch
[20:34:18] <asdfqwega> spindle speed
[20:35:08] <asdfqwega> I'll look at it later, time to go play with other things
[20:35:25] <jepler> OK
[20:35:37] <jepler> it's very possible to turn spindle speed into pulses with hal and freqmod
[20:59:57] <dmessier> thats the way to go
[21:08:07] <Jymmm> les_w: Hey, just got back from the lumber store. Found some rough cut redwood 1x6 that on three sides is almost black. Looks very cool as the grain comes out and has an alomost navy blue tint to it. Any ideas or what would casue that?
[21:08:26] <Jymmm> I'd love to reproduce it
[21:15:57] <dmessier> mould... ; (
[21:17:52] <Jymmm> it's very consistant and only on three sides... |_______|
[21:18:09] <Jymmm> no scent to it either
[21:23:39] <dmessier> salt side??
[21:23:55] <dmessier> plane off??
[21:24:22] <dmessier> sounds COOL if its safe,,, ; )
[21:24:48] <dmessier> i plat the devils advocate...
[21:24:56] <dmessier> play
[21:25:03] <giacus> hey Jymmm! we no needs another hero :P
[21:25:26] <giacus> who sing this song ?
[21:25:34] <robin_sz> Jymmm, if its redwood, then Id say its been in contact with iron or steel
[21:25:34] <giacus> tina turner ?
[21:25:37] <dmessier> survivors tell good stories...
[21:26:15] <robin_sz> Jymmm, early inks where made from iron fillings and redwood chips ... turns blue
[21:26:24] <dmessier> but the tales live on forever...
[21:26:55] <dmessier> si
[21:27:06] <Jymmm> robin_sz loading dock?!
[21:28:08] <robin_sz> Jymmm, could be
[21:28:33] <Jymmm> robin_sz: It looks awesome, just not sure how to reproduce that, wouldn't want iron fillings in the wood when being machined
[21:29:08] <giacus> * giacus play /mnt/synapse/download/DivX/complete/U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday (live at Red Rock).mpg
[21:29:11] <giacus> :D
[21:29:16] <robin_sz> dunno, mix iron in water and then let it sit for a while.? brush it on, dunno, try some things
[21:29:20] <Jymmm> and wth do you get IRON plate these days? everything is steel
[21:29:33] <robin_sz> iron, steel ... same chemical thing
[21:29:56] <Jymmm> you think?
[21:29:57] <dmessier> i like the ROCK and ROLL sOLUTION
[21:30:11] <robin_sz> I sold the scrap pile today
[21:30:18] <robin_sz> £340 cash :)
[21:30:20] <dmessier> $$$$
[21:30:33] <robin_sz> hopefully same next week
[21:30:54] <robin_sz> processing around 8 tonnes a week at the moment
[21:30:59] <dmessier> and the wifey thinks its garbage around here.... ; )
[21:31:25] <dmessier> si GOODEr ... ; )
[21:32:02] <dmessier> and YOU find time to FLY
[21:34:12] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Is the blueing effect SPECIFIC to redwood?
[21:34:54] <robin_sz> think oak does it too
[21:35:20] <giacus> :P
[21:35:32] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Ah, ok so something in those two speciies/family of trees huh?
[21:38:03] <robin_sz> I think its to do with the amount of acid in the wood
[21:39:18] <Jymmm> Ok, cool. I have a stinking old steel plate around here, will try with some scrap. Now to figure out out to get blue without rust stains
[21:40:51] <robin_sz> well, try it and see
[21:40:55] <Jymmm> http://www.doityourself.com/stry/restoringredwood
[21:40:58] <robin_sz> it could be rubbbish of course :)
[21:41:11] <Jymmm> thus the scraps =)
[21:42:25] <robin_sz> In the presence of iron and water, the naturally-occurring tannins in redwood react to form a dark, blue-black iron tannate precipitate.
[21:42:36] <robin_sz> from that page
[21:42:44] <Jymmm> still reading it
[21:43:05] <Jymmm> I'll hit a spot with bleach first... JUST to be sure =)
[21:46:02] <giacus> Jymmm: bloody sunday :(
[21:47:33] <Jymmm> I wonder if iron balls (like buckshot) is available?
[21:48:07] <giacus> nope ..
[21:48:19] <giacus> too expensive
[21:50:30] <giacus> O_O
[21:50:54] <giacus> :-)
[21:51:12] <giacus> all busy dancing on saturday night :(
[21:52:17] <giacus> is it a saturday fever night ?
[21:52:32] <alex_joni> that is long gone
[21:52:40] <Jymmm> then why are you on the computer where theres a party going on?
[21:53:47] <giacus> Jymmm: it's a money issue :(
[21:54:23] <Jymmm> rent your body out then =)
[21:54:28] <giacus> i've to be in messina monday
[21:54:42] <giacus> at 6:00 at morning ..
[21:54:44] <giacus> sigh
[21:55:35] <giacus> that's why i'm not in milan right now .. sigh
[21:57:17] <Jymmm> becasue you cant rent your body out?
[21:57:54] <giacus> what mean rent your body ?
[21:58:04] <Jymmm> giacus male hooker
[21:58:14] <giacus> I do not rent my body !
[21:58:17] <giacus> hehehe
[21:58:22] <giacus> :D
[21:58:28] <giacus> nahhh
[21:58:40] <Jymmm> you give it away for free, no wonder your broke =)
[21:58:45] <giacus> I'm not a VIP as I sayd ..
[21:58:59] <giacus> jsut VIP's can rent his body
[21:59:21] <giacus> for free ? yeah
[21:59:35] <giacus> I always give my body for free
[21:59:42] <giacus> I'm gpl'd :D
[22:00:45] <giacus> Jymmm: is it a calm saturday there ?
[22:00:48] <Jymmm> * Jymmm shakes his head
[22:01:00] <Jymmm> no, damn kids all over the place!
[22:01:14] <giacus> * giacus give yo Jymmm a good B52
[22:01:45] <giacus> oh Jymmm nice, kids = happyness
[22:01:50] <giacus> at least ..
[22:02:05] <Jymmm> kids == pain in the ass and loud!
[22:02:12] <giacus> hahahaa
[22:02:20] <giacus> sometime ;)
[22:06:44] <giacus> Jymmm: do you have a fast internet connection ?
[22:07:10] <giacus> try this: http://www.giacus.org/files/giacus_cnc_working_at_sunday.mpg
[22:07:24] <giacus> I don't like it so much ..
[22:08:01] <giacus> I think I'll overwrite it soon with the latest :P
[22:08:13] <giacus> much better
[22:08:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni finally did it.. emc2 running on the LiveCD
[22:09:02] <giacus> I'm thinking if released it under GPL or creative commons ..
[22:09:08] <giacus> I'm undecided :(
[22:09:25] <giacus> alex_joni: nice !
[22:19:07] <fenn> ugh.. 60mb?
[22:19:16] <giacus> more..
[22:20:02] <fenn> wtf is this??
[22:20:06] <dmessier> talk to me alex... can i send You an mp3
[22:20:13] <alex_joni> dmessier: sure
[22:20:22] <giacus> high resolution engraving
[22:20:37] <giacus> mp3 ??
[22:20:40] <giacus> bleah
[22:20:44] <robin_sz> right, I am going to buy a bot
[22:20:45] <giacus> ogg is better ..
[22:20:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni swears for AAC+
[22:21:06] <giacus> :)
[22:21:16] <robin_sz> probably this one: http://www.robotsltd.co.uk/ABB-IRB1400.htm
[22:22:45] <alex_joni> dmessier: just noticed it..
[22:23:59] <dmessier> i might have thrown the wrong one,,,, sorry
[22:24:50] <dmessier> it'l still be ok
[22:25:03] <alex_joni> that's pink floyd
[22:25:11] <dmessier> si
[22:25:39] <giacus> alex_joni: we'll have roger waters in palermo next ..
[22:25:50] <alex_joni> keep him
[22:26:02] <dmessier> cani come
[22:26:20] <alex_joni> dmessier: have another one you wanted to send me?
[22:26:30] <dmessier> that didnt sound right
[22:29:06] <dmessier> 7.35 Mb sorry
[22:29:54] <alex_joni> van morrison ?
[22:30:19] <dmessier> give you remarks please
[22:30:38] <dmessier> i wont ruin it for you
[22:31:03] <giacus> hahaha
[22:31:31] <dmessier> i'll send to you too
[22:32:12] <dmessier> its an enlightening experience
[22:32:58] <giacus> dmessier: how is zidane around there ?
[22:33:17] <dmessier> zidane>>
[22:33:18] <giacus> did you know about what's is happening here ?
[22:33:27] <giacus> in the soccer :P
[22:33:33] <dmessier> tell me??
[22:33:41] <giacus> a storm ...
[22:33:52] <dmessier> of ???
[22:34:13] <giacus> investigation about matches
[22:34:21] <giacus> read the news ..
[22:34:34] <dmessier> throwing matches>>
[22:34:39] <giacus> juventus in first
[22:35:30] <giacus> too much mafia around soccer business
[22:35:46] <dmessier> my 2 sons ARE very goood Soccer/Football players
[22:36:07] <Jymmm> dmessier and good at torturing Dad too!
[22:36:24] <dmessier> i will. see PRO coaches sOON
[22:36:33] <giacus> let's sse what happen in the mondial champions league
[22:36:35] <dmessier> VERY
[22:36:35] <giacus> :)
[22:37:41] <giacus> dmessier: don't you like soccer ?
[22:38:10] <dmessier> we wher approached for our middle son last month.. il love it....
[22:38:29] <giacus> I lost interesting in it ..
[22:38:36] <giacus> in latest years
[22:39:10] <dmessier> rep league best in the province.... but all over
[22:39:18] <giacus> soccer here around would be a business only
[22:39:21] <giacus> no passion
[22:39:29] <giacus> as time ago ..
[22:39:43] <dmessier> i could DO it...
[22:40:40] <giacus> that's why italian soccer is died
[22:40:48] <dmessier> i love soccer its a sport ANY one can play
[22:40:50] <giacus> losted maradona ..
[22:41:03] <giacus> losted all champions here around
[22:41:31] <giacus> and there's no reason to believe in the soccer passion too
[22:41:33] <dmessier> find a new one.... i'll send you tyler
[22:42:02] <dmessier> hes SMART
[22:42:13] <giacus> dmessier: I jsu belive in hackers
[22:42:23] <dmessier> and good feet...
[22:42:37] <dmessier> he's a hacker tooo
[22:42:58] <dmessier> fighter.... boulder..
[22:43:32] <dmessier> shooter...
[22:44:03] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01147559232
[22:44:08] <dmessier> ther WILL be casualties
[22:44:08] <giacus> an hacker is angelo d'arrigo http://www.angelodarrigo.com/video_wingsofcondor.htm
[22:44:29] <giacus> if you're able to do that, I believe in you ! :P
[22:46:06] <dmessier> my 13 yr old son has had 3 hg flights an 2 solo hand town para flights.... i see angelo as my lost twin brother,,, and ha'e their ucle
[22:47:18] <dmessier> im a twinless twin from 1967
[22:49:43] <dmessier> and ALL stuff wierd happens to ME...
[22:49:48] <giacus> :))
[22:51:00] <dmessier> i could shouw some pics of angelo to my mom and she would SEE me
[22:52:02] <dmessier> and FEEL her son...
[22:52:02] <giacus> * giacus :(°
[22:53:03] <giacus> nope
[22:53:47] <dmessier> thx Giacus.... i love you and yours. for it,,,
[22:54:15] <dmessier> and YUP....
[22:54:40] <giacus> :)
[22:54:41] <dmessier> gidde - up
[22:55:04] <alex_joni> ok, guys.. running away for a while.. want to put the iso online, and my home upload sux
[22:55:16] <alex_joni> bbl
[22:55:21] <dmessier> 500 fpm thermal..... come join
[22:55:54] <dmessier> big fatthie.....
[22:59:56] <dmessier> 1000 fpm..... some start crying for thiere crayons
[23:00:03] <dmessier> like ME
[23:08:37] <bigAl> hey any emc developers around ?
[23:09:34] <jmkasunich> bigAl: kinda
[23:09:48] <jmkasunich> (pretty frazzled, but here at the moment)
[23:10:20] <bigAl> just installed the bdi-4.46 on one of the lab rats computers
[23:10:48] <bigAl> found an emc2 tar ball on the disk
[23:11:13] <bigAl> compiled first time
[23:11:22] <jmkasunich> thats promising
[23:11:25] <giacus> ah !
[23:11:52] <giacus> Hi John.
[23:12:04] <bigAl> but what gives with the fonts ?
[23:12:21] <jmkasunich> you mean on tkemc?
[23:12:24] <jmkasunich> dunno
[23:12:30] <giacus> bigAl: wait ..
[23:13:09] <bigAl> emc2 is blocky
[23:13:10] <bigAl> but generic.run looks much better.
[23:13:23] <jmkasunich> there is some fonts issue
[23:13:30] <jmkasunich> unfortunately I'm not the guy that understands it
[23:13:48] <jmkasunich> emc2 on bdi is "complicated"
[23:13:50] <giacus> jmkasunich: I can do it for you
[23:14:00] <jmkasunich> giacus: thank you very much
[23:14:05] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is having one of those days
[23:14:09] <giacus> what's the problem ? :)
[23:14:12] <giacus> we are
[23:14:12] <jmkasunich> too much stuff to do, too little time
[23:14:45] <alex_joni> bigAl: re fonts
[23:14:46] <giacus> that's the rule
[23:14:53] <alex_joni> emc2 uses trutype fonts
[23:15:03] <alex_joni> and those seem to be missing from the bdi disk
[23:15:27] <alex_joni> bigAl: try selecting some other fonts from the tkemc menu
[23:16:34] <giacus> apt-get install ttf-bitstream-vera
[23:16:53] <alex_joni> giacus: sure?
[23:17:02] <giacus> looking ..
[23:17:11] <robin_sz> apt-get install hot-blonde
[23:17:31] <alex_joni> apt-get source hot-blonde && customize && debuild
[23:17:45] <alex_joni> robin_sz: way better like that :)
[23:17:53] <robin_sz> sigh .. I think I need to purge my packages
[23:18:02] <giacus> * giacus cellphone ..
[23:18:59] <robin_sz> later
[23:22:21] <bigAl> already have ttf-bitstream-vera installed
[23:22:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: wb
[23:22:43] <alex_joni> bigAl: try selecting another font from the tkemc menu
[23:23:08] <alex_joni> then once it's ok, you can change /etc/X11/app-defaults/TkEmc (from memory..)
[23:23:32] <skunkworks_2> Cradek: ?
[23:24:09] <skunkworks_2> Or Jepler: ?
[23:24:19] <alex_joni> skunkworks_2: may I help?
[23:24:55] <skunkworks_2> I was looking for a link to the feed/rpm for the tinker pcb engravers.
[23:25:02] <skunkworks_2> I cannot find it.
[23:25:09] <skunkworks_2> bits
[23:25:16] <alex_joni> oh.. too much for me I guess
[23:25:43] <skunkworks_2> :)
[23:26:50] <alex_joni> Ubuntu LiveCD at: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/emc2-ubuntu-livecd.iso
[23:27:22] <skunkworks_2> again - nice work alex
[23:27:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks_2: don't say till you haven't tried
[23:27:50] <dmessier> so you DNT appprove of Van...
[23:27:51] <alex_joni> but be warned, that's the first version that booted & ran emc2..
[23:27:59] <alex_joni> dmessier: didn't listen yet
[23:28:04] <alex_joni> doing that now
[23:28:42] <skunkworks_2> jepler: cradek: never mind - it is right on cradeks site. :)
[23:29:20] <dmessier> YOU alex might understand
[23:30:08] <skunkworks_2> bbl
[23:33:17] <dmessier> any comments alex???
[23:33:40] <bigAl> One small change fixes the font with emc2
[23:34:02] <alex_joni> bigAl: which one?
[23:34:05] <alex_joni> dmessier: nice..
[23:34:13] <alex_joni> but it's too late to REALLY listen
[23:34:24] <bigAl> tkemc.tcl line 1156
[23:34:41] <bigAl> change fontfamily to Courier
[23:35:18] <dmessier> sweet we call it... ; )\listenagain pls...
[23:35:38] <bigAl> courier 10 pitch is just ugly
[23:35:41] <alex_joni> bigAl: did you use a deb? or source ?
[23:35:59] <bigAl> the source on the CD
[23:36:12] <alex_joni> ok, compiled for run in place?
[23:36:26] <alex_joni> I mean ./configure --enable-run-in-place ?
[23:36:35] <bigAl> yes
[23:36:47] <alex_joni> ok, look at emc2/tcl/TkEmc
[23:36:58] <alex_joni> that's a resource file for tkemc
[23:37:04] <alex_joni> there is a line:
[23:37:22] <alex_joni> *top*font: -*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
[23:37:47] <alex_joni> hmm.. that's for the top font, I really meant:
[23:37:53] <alex_joni> *top*position*font: -*-courier-bold-r-normal-*-56-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
[23:38:14] <alex_joni> you can change that to suit your needs..
[23:38:22] <alex_joni> without touching tkemc.tcl
[23:39:46] <alex_joni> dmessier: care for an mp3?
[23:40:25] <dmessier> alex tu a le driot.. ;)
[23:40:41] <dmessier> ship it
[23:40:54] <bigAl> changing to 24, font is still the same size and type
[23:40:55] <alex_joni> I sent you a /msg
[23:41:08] <alex_joni> bigAl: need to change the family
[23:41:22] <bigAl> to what ?
[23:41:35] <alex_joni> try fonts from the tkemc menu
[23:41:40] <alex_joni> settings->font I think
[23:42:38] <bigAl> did that. So what do I put in the TkEmc file to make it stick ?
[23:42:46] <alex_joni> the name you chose
[23:43:17] <bigAl> but the file already says courier-bold
[23:43:50] <alex_joni> I see 'Helvetica' 'Courier''courier 10 pitch' & 'Times'
[23:44:00] <alex_joni> in the menu
[23:45:03] <bigAl> yes. And courier 10 is the ugly default one
[23:45:03] <bigAl> but it is not in your TkEmc file.
[23:45:24] <cradek> I think you have to put something in the .ini to change those numbers
[23:45:29] <alex_joni> bigAl: so I guess you should put 'Courier' in there.. instead of 'courier-bold-r-normal'
[23:45:48] <cradek> alex_joni: I think you're mixing X font specifiers with tcl font specifiers
[23:46:02] <alex_joni> cradek: might be so.. never was good at these..
[23:46:12] <alex_joni> cradek: please set me right
[23:46:28] <cradek> * cradek wades into tkemc
[23:46:40] <cradek> I could have sworn I saw it in here somewhere
[23:47:13] <cradek> set userfont [emc_ini "POSITION_FONT" "DISPLAY"]
[23:47:36] <cradek> try: in [DISPLAY] put POSITION_FONT="Courier 48 bold"
[23:50:55] <bigAl> first find the right config file.
[23:51:45] <bigAl> restart and i have what looks like 8 point.
[23:51:59] <cradek> hmm
[23:52:20] <giacus> goodnigh
[23:52:25] <giacus> t*
[23:52:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prepares to go home
[23:53:10] <bigAl> and try to change the font from tkemc, and it throws an application error
[23:53:18] <cradek> I guess it's broken, I don't understand all of what's happening in here, I'm looking at tkemc.tcl starting at line 1136
[23:54:13] <bigAl> change line 1156 from
[23:54:21] <alex_joni> bigAl: guess the best way would be that you stick back your change in there (the Courier at line 1156) and let it alone for now ;)
[23:54:37] <bigAl> set fontfamily {courier 10 pitch}
[23:54:44] <bigAl> to set fontfamily Courier
[23:54:59] <cradek> bigAl: since it needs to be different on different systems, changing the default back and forth is not an acceptable fix, we need to fix the code that makes it configurable instead
[23:55:17] <cradek> but for your system, of course just changing that line is fine.
[23:55:38] <bigAl> so how comes the generic.run looks fine, but not emc2 ?
[23:55:41] <cradek> the code that makes it configurable in the ini file must have a bug in it
[23:55:59] <cradek> bigAl: because they are different versions of emc whose primary platforms are different; the defaults suit the primary platforms.
[23:57:08] <bigAl> so I have to install what, FC4 ?
[23:57:34] <cradek> the primary suggested platform for emc2 is Ubuntu 5.10, but it also runs fine on bdi4.
[23:57:34] <dmessier> we will NEVER have the power... but the MAN WIL lOSE
[23:58:03] <dmessier> alex understands
[23:58:22] <cradek> I have to go get ready for the trip to the cnc workshop tomorrow
[23:58:57] <cradek> dmessier: I don't know if I want some of what you're smoking or not
[23:59:48] <dmessier> share and repair///