#emc | Logs for 2006-05-09

[00:04:07] <giacus> goodnight
[00:14:48] <bigAl> will have to get one of the lab rats to finish this off
[00:31:49] <asdfqwega> Well nuts
[00:32:28] <asdfqwega> Did a apt update of emc to my 'old' machine, to try quickstep out
[00:33:08] <asdfqwega> Celeron 450, lowest freqmod period I could get was 0.0000225
[00:33:44] <asdfqwega> With which I could not use Axis
[00:34:28] <asdfqwega> With quickstep, just for kicks I set PERIOD down to 0.00001
[00:34:52] <asdfqwega> No problem! Tk gui and system very responsive
[00:35:50] <asdfqwega> however, Axis won't work - gives an error about rs274 and exits
[00:36:59] <asdfqwega> so, I'm going to try first downgrading python2.3-axis from 1.2.1-1 back to what it was before
[00:38:44] <asdfqwega> it's a PITA...I can either have my parport card in, or my ethernet
[00:38:54] <asdfqwega> apt-zip and floppies, anyone?
[00:42:35] <asdfqwega> Cool, I still had a cd-r with a mirror of the bdi update on it
[00:43:37] <asdfqwega> Yep, downgrade Axis to 1.1+cvs20051221, and it works again
[00:46:25] <jepler> asdfqwega: I'm sorry to hear that. Because I don't have regular access to a BDI4 system I rely on paul_c to make sure the packages work before he puts them online.
[00:46:48] <jepler> asdfqwega: If you want to /msg me with the error I'll try to help, but there may not be much I can do since it's such a PITA to build axis on bdi4emc.
[00:48:30] <jepler> I just changed my settings so I can get messages from unregistered users
[00:48:53] <asdfqwega> 10,000 spammers suddenly jump on jepler
[00:49:21] <asdfqwega> Well, let me switch it back so I can log the error
[00:49:23] <jepler> none yet
[00:51:49] <asdfqwega> now, if I can just find the itty bitty USB memstick so I can transfer the log...
[00:57:43] <CIA-4> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/emc2/hal_show.lyx: make image paths relative
[01:00:58] <jepler> if the computers are nearby it might be OK to transcribe the lines. I'd want the lines starting with "Traceback (most recent call last):", the paths and line numbers, and then the error message itself.
[01:08:22] <jepler> be back in a few ...
[01:11:41] <jepler> I knew you'd send me the error the moment I said I was leaving :)
[01:14:26] <jepler> unfortunately, I'm none the wiser about the cause of the problem
[01:14:37] <jepler> can you tell me the version of the emc package you have installed?
[01:16:29] <asdfqwega> 1.2.1-1 gives the error
[01:17:15] <jepler> that's the version of python-axis. can you tell me the version of the emc package too?
[01:17:27] <jepler> something like 1.0-45 maybe
[01:17:36] <asdfqwega> yes, that's it
[01:17:53] <jepler> If you type this at the command prompt, do you get a similar error (the last line is the same)? python -c 'import gcode'
[01:18:02] <asdfqwega> (slow machine, takes a while for aptitude to refresh)
[01:18:24] <jepler> that's OK
[01:19:14] <jepler> I have ssh access into a bdi machine and I got the same error when I installed emc 1.0-45 and axis 1.2.1-1 (when running python -c 'import gcode')
[01:21:07] <asdfqwega> Yes, I get the same error
[01:21:55] <asdfqwega> The same ImportError
[01:27:28] <jepler> I think there is just some problem with the axis 1.2.1-1 deb. "_ZN7InifileC1Ev" is the name of a function that should be provided by emc but it's just not there for some reason
[01:28:01] <jepler> (it comes from a "static library" so something is wrong at the time the axis .deb is produced)
[01:32:33] <jepler> (and it's just the first of many symbols which should be present but aren't)
[01:47:20] <asdfqwega> Time for me to call it a night
[01:47:24] <jepler> OK, I found two separate problems, both of which are specific to bdi4emc.
[01:47:44] <asdfqwega> Hm?
[01:48:31] <jepler> asdfqwega: there are two problems. The original undefined symbol error occurs because two files are listed in an incorrect order when the python 'gcode' module is created.
[01:49:24] <jepler> the second error is also an undefined symbol but it has a different and more difficult to explain cause
[01:49:46] <jepler> do you read the bdi4emc mailing list? I am going to prepare a post to it about this issue .. I don't think anyone can successfully use paul_c's latest axis .deb packages
[01:50:53] <jepler> unfortunately, paul_c doesn't supply some of the files necessary for others (i.e., me) to produce new .deb packages of axis, so I can't fix the problem myself.
[01:51:23] <jepler> (not with a new .deb that you could easily install; instead you would have to follow several steps of downloading, patching and compiling)
[01:53:41] <jepler> asdfqwega: if you're very brave, upgrade to axis 1.2 again. Then download this file, untar it, and move the 'gcode.so' file inside it to /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ .. it might work, or you might have to downgrade to 1.1+cvs again.
[01:53:57] <jepler> that's all for tonight .. but watch for the mailing list post and any replies.
[01:54:32] <asdfqwega> I've already downgraded it back, running the Chips.ngc for a screensaver :)
[01:54:59] <asdfqwega> I'll give compiling Axis a try
[01:55:18] <jepler> if you want to do that, you'll need a patch I haven't yet prepared
[01:57:21] <jepler> you'd follow the instructions at the bottom of http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2 but before you run 'setup.py' you would apply the patch from http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-1.2-bdi4emc.patch
[01:58:04] <jepler> goodnight
[01:58:25] <asdfqwega> 'night
[02:19:43] <stevec20> am linux newbie and need help with emc failing to install
[02:19:59] <jmkasunich> hi stevec20
[02:20:10] <jmkasunich> what kind of system are you trying to install it on?
[02:21:11] <stevec20> Dell Optiplex GX1
[02:21:55] <jmkasunich> do you already have linux installed?
[02:22:18] <stevec20> yes, that went smoothly
[02:22:37] <cradek> maybe we should let stevec20 tell us where he's stuck
[02:22:37] <jmkasunich> which linux? ubuntu?
[02:23:35] <stevec20> ubuntu as recommended
[02:23:43] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:23:54] <jmkasunich> cradek is right, tell us where you got stuck
[02:24:45] <stevec20> tried the install script and is OK thru building dependency tree
[02:25:07] <stevec20> then it says some packages not installed.
[02:25:54] <cradek> did you have a network connection during the ubuntu install, or did you set it up afterward?
[02:26:17] <stevec20> set it up afterward
[02:26:59] <cradek> ok this is a known problem, it means you need to enable some repositories so your system can download the necessary packages from the ubuntu servers
[02:27:16] <jmkasunich> now, in english.....
[02:27:20] <cradek> jmkasunich: do you know how to turn on those repositories with synaptic? I only know how to edit the sources.list
[02:27:25] <cradek> haha
[02:27:33] <cradek> ok please translate for me
[02:27:38] <jmkasunich> I edited sources.list, but lemme look
[02:28:00] <stevec20> text editing i can do
[02:28:19] <jmkasunich> synaptic is pretty easy tho
[02:28:41] <jmkasunich> are you familiar with any of the editors on your ubuntu system?
[02:28:44] <cradek> I'm not at the right machine to look at synaptic
[02:28:51] <jmkasunich> (dunno how long you've had it running)
[02:28:55] <cradek> gedit is easy for everyone to use
[02:29:04] <cradek> EDITOR=gedit sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:29:11] <stevec20> found synaptic
[02:29:29] <jmkasunich> lets use synaptic
[02:29:38] <stevec20> pk
[02:29:44] <stevec20> ok
[02:30:00] <jmkasunich> start synaptic
[02:30:14] <stevec20> done
[02:30:39] <jmkasunich> on the menu bar, click settings, then repositories
[02:30:58] <stevec20> k
[02:31:07] <jmkasunich> I have a fairly long list, yours is shorter I suspect
[02:31:27] <stevec20> yes just 3
[02:31:54] <jmkasunich> ubuntu 5.10 breezy badger (binary) on all three?
[02:32:11] <jmkasunich> under that is a couple lines of small print
[02:32:15] <stevec20> yes
[02:32:28] <jmkasunich> Officialy Supported / Restricted Copyright?
[02:32:51] <stevec20> yes under first one
[02:33:03] <jmkasunich> Community maintained (Universe)?
[02:33:24] <stevec20> no dont see that
[02:33:53] <jmkasunich> do any say "Updates" or "Security Updates" on the first line?
[02:34:10] <stevec20> no
[02:34:32] <jmkasunich> hmm
[02:34:41] <jmkasunich> oh, just found a better way I think
[02:34:53] <jmkasunich> click the settings button under the list
[02:35:10] <jmkasunich> the first checkbox says "show disabled software sources"
[02:35:14] <jmkasunich> check it
[02:35:28] <stevec20> ok
[02:35:30] <jmkasunich> then click close
[02:35:38] <jmkasunich> now you should have a long list
[02:35:57] <stevec20> yes - long
[02:36:00] <jmkasunich> the little box to the left of each one tells whether it is enabled or not
[02:36:14] <jmkasunich> you probably have three dark gray boxes (enabled) and a bunch light gray
[02:36:23] <stevec20> yes
[02:36:41] <jmkasunich> click all the light gray ones that say "(Binary)" at the end of the title
[02:36:54] <jmkasunich> except breezy-backports
[02:38:05] <stevec20> ok
[02:38:20] <jmkasunich> now we need to add the special one with EMC in it
[02:38:41] <cradek> I bet that's done already if he ran the install script
[02:39:10] <jmkasunich> is there one called dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/emc2?
[02:39:15] <stevec20> there is one with emc in small print
[02:39:17] <cradek> in fact just running it again is probably the easiest way to finish the install
[02:39:57] <jmkasunich> lets try that
[02:40:13] <stevec20> so.. should i click OK and go back to install script?
[02:40:13] <jmkasunich> click OK to get out of preferences
[02:40:43] <jmkasunich> it might ask you about updating repository info
[02:40:45] <jmkasunich> say yes
[02:40:54] <jmkasunich> when its done with that, exit from synaptic
[02:41:01] <stevec20> it says you must reload packages do you want to
[02:41:13] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:41:45] <jmkasunich> that will take a little while (maybe a couple minutes on dialup, less on DSL)
[02:41:45] <stevec20> it it downloading package list
[02:41:55] <jmkasunich> good
[02:42:21] <stevec20> DSL its done
[02:42:27] <cradek> yay dsl
[02:42:28] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:42:31] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[02:42:35] <jmkasunich> exit from synaptic
[02:42:41] <jmkasunich> and try the script again
[02:45:06] <stevec20> script is taking longer - a good thing
[02:46:02] <stevec20> thanks for the help
[02:46:40] <cradek> when the install finishes, you'll just have to reboot, then you can run emc
[02:46:48] <stevec20> yay
[02:53:51] <cradek> stevec20: how did you find the pointer to the emc channel for help?
[02:55:16] <stevec20> from the contact page
[02:55:36] <jmkasunich> good
[02:55:42] <stevec20> linuxcnc.org
[02:57:00] <stevec20> script has finished going to reboot thanks for the help
[02:57:48] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[02:57:58] <jmkasunich> don't hesitate to come back if you need more help
[02:58:06] <jmkasunich> (or just want to talk about CNC ;-)
[02:58:13] <stevec20> ok i will
[02:59:18] <cradek> thanks for helping him with synaptic
[02:59:47] <jmkasunich> no prob
[03:14:43] <SWPadnos> hmm - have you seen the halscope trace from JonE?
[03:15:34] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:15:42] <jmkasunich> its simply horribly mistuned thats all
[03:15:47] <jmkasunich> no I = no performance
[03:15:56] <SWPadnos> he says the red trace is encoder delta - is that even possible?
[03:16:09] <jmkasunich> don't know the scaling
[03:16:13] <SWPadnos> (not to probe - to get that kind of waveform)
[03:16:26] <SWPadnos> if you look at the fuzz, it looks like ~10 counts / div
[03:16:30] <SWPadnos> maybe more
[03:16:39] <jmkasunich> he has 128000 counts per inch
[03:17:19] <jmkasunich> if he's at 10 counts/div, then thats 25 counts or so, about 12ipm IIRC
[03:17:21] <SWPadnos> 1) does the upc/usc driver even have delta? and 2) doesn't it reset each read()
[03:18:01] <jmkasunich> 1) checking, but it must (or he's smoking even more dope that I think he is)
[03:18:13] <SWPadnos> that was the corollary question ;)
[03:18:24] <jmkasunich> 1) yes
[03:18:43] <SWPadnos> ok. I didn't remember putting that in
[03:18:47] <jmkasunich> 2) no
[03:19:02] <jmkasunich> delta = pos now - pos last time
[03:19:14] <SWPadnos> last time = pos
[03:19:18] <SWPadnos> so 2) yes
[03:19:29] <jmkasunich> ?
[03:19:42] <jmkasunich> yeah, I guess
[03:19:54] <SWPadnos> unless he's got the scope running faster than the servo thread
[03:20:03] <jmkasunich> its basically the same as if you routed it to a ddt component
[03:20:07] <SWPadnos> right
[03:20:17] <jmkasunich> scope is sampling at the servo rate
[03:20:31] <SWPadnos> at 1 KHz, the normal servo rate ...
[03:21:43] <SWPadnos> I suppose someone should ask to see his hal/ini files ;)
[03:22:02] <jmkasunich> I suppose
[03:22:15] <jmkasunich> we know input scale is set to 128000
[03:22:21] <SWPadnos> that would be the right thing to do, tech-support wise ;)
[03:22:24] <jmkasunich> output scale is probably _not_ set the way I would
[03:22:45] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna reply
[03:22:49] <SWPadnos> I
[03:22:49] <jmkasunich> and even be nice about it
[03:22:57] <SWPadnos> !
[03:23:32] <SWPadnos> I think maybe I'll go to bed. I was fighting with LabView until 3:30 this morning (and again until a half hour ago, when it crashed)
[03:23:43] <jmkasunich> ouch
[03:23:49] <jmkasunich> what are you trying to do with it?
[03:23:51] <SWPadnos> labview = ouch
[03:23:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:24:06] <SWPadnos> a power supply controller for an arc machine (similar control to EDM)
[03:24:16] <SWPadnos> using an NI CompactRio chassis
[03:24:27] <SWPadnos> so FPGA connected to IO modules, then a realtime controller, tehn the PC
[03:24:33] <SWPadnos> PC connected via ethernet
[03:24:40] <SWPadnos> = big PITA
[04:43:16] <Jymmmm> Yes, SWPadnos is a BIG PITA! =)
[06:32:01] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: 3mm 18000mcd 30 degrees, whatcha think? http://cgi.ebay.com/50X-NEW-3mm-WHITE-LED-LAMP-WIDE-VIEWING-ANGLE-18-000mcd_W0QQitemZ7617134665QQcategoryZ66948QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[08:54:28] <alex_joni> hi jacky
[08:55:22] <giacus> hi alex_joni
[08:55:25] <giacus> morning
[08:57:41] <giacus> I wake up too late this morning
[08:58:16] <giacus> I should go to my doctor for some doc.. I'll go this afternoon at this point
[09:34:03] <alex_joni> heh.. yeah
[10:29:13] <giacus> hello anonimasu
[10:33:32] <anonimasu> hi
[10:33:53] <giacus> got a picture of your cnc/lathe and a link for that ?
[10:34:21] <giacus> I'd like to add your userpic to this page http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc.html
[10:34:46] <giacus> I already did it for someone without ask for permission.. :(
[10:35:05] <anonimasu> I dont have a cnc lathe yet
[10:35:30] <giacus> on the nick there's a link to the personal website, on the pic the link to the machine
[10:35:37] <giacus> let me know
[10:36:48] <anonimasu> giacus: ah, I'll throw you a pic someday
[10:37:03] <giacus> ok
[10:38:00] <alex_joni> hi anders
[10:38:36] <anonimasu> hey alex
[10:38:57] <anonimasu> what's up?
[10:39:28] <alex_joni> work ;)
[10:39:32] <anonimasu> hehe
[10:39:35] <alex_joni> giacus: you can use this one for me: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/01146513141/IMG_3293.JPG
[10:39:43] <giacus> ok
[10:40:14] <alex_joni> anonimasu: struggling to set up wildfire
[10:40:24] <anonimasu> wildfire?
[10:40:40] <alex_joni> http://www.jivesoftware.org/wildfire/
[10:40:51] <anonimasu> ah
[10:40:52] <anonimasu> nice
[10:41:35] <anonimasu> I am finishing the setup of a w2k3r2 server :)
[10:43:16] <alex_joni> w2k3r2 sounds very funny :D
[10:44:48] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:44:55] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what timezone are you in?
[10:45:16] <anonimasu> +1
[10:46:07] <alex_joni> you sure? :D
[10:46:24] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:46:26] <alex_joni> GMT didn't switch to summer time
[10:46:34] <alex_joni> I used to be GMT+2, now I am GMT+3
[10:46:49] <anonimasu> wtf?
[10:46:54] <anonimasu> it's summertime here now :)
[10:47:05] <alex_joni> yeah, but GMT doesn't have summertime
[10:47:08] <alex_joni> I think..
[10:47:19] <anonimasu> hmm yeah
[10:47:19] <anonimasu> might be true
[10:47:31] <anonimasu> yep they dotn
[10:47:42] <alex_joni> so you're GMT+2
[10:47:47] <alex_joni> confusing as hell
[10:48:11] <anonimasu> windows tells me +1 ;)
[10:48:20] <anonimasu> but it tweaks the timezones(summertime)
[10:49:18] <alex_joni> yup.. so does mine.. stupid ;)
[10:50:11] <anonimasu> eah
[10:50:12] <anonimasu> err yeah
[10:53:11] <giacus> alex_joni: is a link from your userpic to http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/work.php ok ?
[10:54:23] <giacus> or, give me your prefered link to
[10:58:57] <alex_joni> www.juve.ro
[11:00:53] <giacus> K, updated
[11:13:17] <fenn> i think this picture is much cuter: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/work.php
[11:13:19] <fenn> ack
[11:13:25] <fenn> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/images/work3.jpg
[11:14:02] <fenn> and he's already got a square around him
[11:15:35] <giacus> yeah, nice
[11:15:57] <giacus> fenn: any pic of your machine ?
[11:16:13] <fenn> i am ashamed of my machine, but i didnt build it either
[11:16:31] <giacus> :)
[11:17:53] <fenn> giacus: here's a pic of me if you want to use it: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0349.JPG
[11:18:54] <giacus> nice, ok
[11:19:49] <giacus> I just have to rescale it .. np
[11:26:18] <giacus> fenn: updated
[11:29:07] <giacus> dinner .. later
[11:29:15] <giacus> ops. lunch :)
[11:41:46] <Bo^Dick> ok, lets say we've got a 4-bit counter in a DIL14 package. mention a typical race time for the 0001 state to achieve 0010
[11:54:16] <jepler> what's the datasheet say?
[11:57:17] <fenn> not more than 300 ns
[12:00:59] <les_w> morning
[12:03:59] <giacus> hi les_w !
[12:04:06] <jepler> les! good morning.
[12:04:08] <giacus> what's up ?
[12:04:16] <les_w> hi guys
[12:04:28] <les_w> aw, another day another dollar
[12:04:39] <les_w> I'm booked up for months
[12:04:45] <les_w> which is a good thing
[12:04:57] <giacus> haha nice theory, I like it
[12:05:23] <giacus> les_w: good
[12:05:40] <les_w> yeah....I get little time off though
[12:05:59] <les_w> I don't get to work on the cnc control much
[12:08:35] <alex_joni> I thought cnc already had control in it ;)
[12:08:35] <giacus> hehe, time to run EMC2.0.0 then :)
[12:10:42] <les_w> I am in the middle of a rewire still, and I want to try the motenc and the newer code
[12:11:04] <giacus> nice
[12:11:26] <les_w> a bunch of stuff is on hold for me
[12:11:27] <giacus> I'm thinking to get a motenc card too
[12:11:41] <les_w> like the shop enlargement
[12:12:20] <les_w> I keep thinking a break in work will happen
[12:12:25] <les_w> but it doesn't
[12:13:13] <les_w> but I figure if the work is there...gobble it up...fill those bank accounts
[12:13:33] <giacus> hehe, yeah
[12:14:06] <giacus> I think two things are very important in the life, in first the family, after the work
[12:14:12] <les_w> yes
[12:14:40] <giacus> les_w: I like very much 2 things: the second is to travel ..
[12:14:42] <giacus> :D
[12:17:53] <giacus> les_w: I'm playng around this stats: http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc.html
[12:18:09] <giacus> can I add some pic and link from your website ?
[12:19:59] <les_w> neat! sure, links to the site are always welcome
[12:20:09] <giacus> thanks :)
[12:20:26] <les_w> well off to the shop now
[12:20:35] <les_w> back at midmorning break
[12:21:09] <giacus> have a fun :)
[12:51:17] <Bo^Dick> what's the internal resolution of the gecko stepper drive?
[12:55:02] <Bo^Dick> you might wonder why i ask that but that's intresting since i believe that the gecko has a finer resolution in the logics than 1/10 steps. is that true?
[13:13:10] <jepler> http://kimsal.com/rabbit_pancake.jpg
[13:28:40] <SkunkWorks> :)
[14:02:38] <alex_joni> jepler: lol
[15:56:29] <SkunkWorks> logger_aj: bookmark
[15:56:29] <SkunkWorks> See
[15:57:04] <SkunkWorks> logger_aj: bookmark
[15:57:04] <SkunkWorks> See
[16:03:53] <giacus> SkunkWorks: read the query please
[16:04:24] <SkunkWorks> ?
[16:04:35] <giacus> are you identified to the server ?
[16:05:59] <giacus> I'm asking you if you have any personal image or weblink to use as userpic in the stats page
[16:06:00] <SkunkWorks> no - but I got your message. I will look to see what I have. Thanks
[16:06:06] <giacus> ok
[16:06:30] <giacus> oh.. maybe I can't read you in query instead
[16:06:42] <giacus> np :)
[16:07:37] <SkunkWorks> I can usually see what people are saying to me - but I can't talk back :)
[16:08:00] <SkunkWorks> How about this? Only picture I have up. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/me.JPG
[16:08:01] <giacus> because you've not registered the nickname
[16:08:13] <SkunkWorks> How would I go about doing that?
[16:08:30] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[16:08:30] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[16:08:35] <giacus> /msg nickserv register yourpassword
[16:09:17] <giacus> after that, you've to identify to the server anytime you connect it with /msg nickserv identify yourpassword
[16:09:30] <SkunkWorks> don't I have to register my name somehow with freenode initially
[16:09:57] <SkunkWorks> or does that line just work?
[16:10:02] <giacus> you can also put the appropriate command into your irc client to auto-identify anytime (without type any passwd)
[16:10:11] <SkunkWorks> I am sorry - I am really new to irc
[16:10:21] <giacus> yes, it work giving that command
[16:10:28] <SkunkWorks> cool
[16:10:30] <giacus> choose a good passwd
[16:10:52] <giacus> so, you'll be also sure no other than you will use the nick SkunkWorks
[16:11:24] <giacus> just this command: /msg nickserv register yourpassword
[16:11:29] <giacus> one time only
[16:11:45] <giacus> and /msg nickserv identify yourpassword anytime you connect the server
[16:12:27] <giacus> SkunkWorks: can I link your nick to http://www.electronicsam.com too ?
[16:12:35] <giacus> is it correct ?
[16:13:05] <SkunkWorks> You can link :)
[16:13:08] <giacus> ok
[16:17:01] <SkunkWorks> giacus: have they start the huge suspention bridge between sicily to italy?
[16:17:28] <SkunkWorks> over the strait of messina
[16:18:44] <giacus> They're planning to start since 1960 ..
[16:18:56] <SkunkWorks> oops. :)
[16:19:23] <giacus> but when some japanese engineer seen our plan he start to cry ..
[16:19:54] <giacus> the bridge should be double of the biggest bridge of the world
[16:20:16] <giacus> lenght is more of 3000 meters
[16:20:31] <giacus> the biggest one is around 1500 mt
[16:21:20] <SkunkWorks> it has a suspention lenght 2.5 times the golden gate bridge
[16:23:57] <giacus> they will never built it, they just used that bridge as spot to get votes on politician elections
[16:28:28] <dave> hmmmm! pretty quiet
[16:29:00] <dave> cradek you around
[16:30:00] <dave> can anyone tell me how to set blending?
[16:31:10] <SWPadnos> g64p###, I Think
[16:31:25] <SWPadnos> that's blending with tolerance ###
[16:31:36] <dave> that makes sense..
[16:31:43] <dave> I've not tried it and want to.
[16:32:10] <SWPadnos> I winder if anyone at CNC workshop would want to buy a Tapmatic 90X
[16:32:13] <dave> there must be docs someplace but I've not found them
[16:32:13] <SWPadnos> wonder
[16:32:26] <dave> bring it and find out
[16:32:38] <SWPadnos> heh - it 's relatively small
[16:32:50] <dave> you might check ebay and he an idea of going price
[16:33:10] <dave> get an idea
[16:33:29] <dave> which type is the 90X?
[16:33:37] <SWPadnos> yeah. it varies quite a bit. it's big though, so many machines (including my Bridgeport) aren't really big enough for it
[16:33:53] <SWPadnos> it's the huge one, 1/2 to 1-1/8 capacity
[16:34:08] <SWPadnos> auto-reversing clutch type
[16:34:09] <dave> wow..no wonder it is big
[16:34:24] <SWPadnos> yeah - I think it exceeds the max tool weight for a BP
[16:34:25] <dave> a bit spendy also?
[16:34:39] <SWPadnos> they're $1100 new, I think
[16:34:54] <SWPadnos> I should see what I spent - it wasn't anywhere near that
[16:34:56] <dave> shaft mount or R8...or?
[16:35:19] <SWPadnos> MT3 or MT4, I Think
[16:35:25] <SWPadnos> but the mount is removable
[16:35:36] <SWPadnos> in fact, it's removed right now
[16:36:08] <dave> 1" shaft would be nice
[16:36:35] <SWPadnos> yep. it's got the threads for whatever shaft you want
[16:36:47] <SWPadnos> the shafts are $$pricey though
[16:36:54] <dave> oh, that makes it easier
[16:37:19] <dave> with a good lathe you should be able to make your own.
[16:37:34] <SWPadnos> one day, I'll have a lathe
[16:38:13] <dave> get some acralloy shaft... 4142 normalized and ground to 16 microinch finish
[16:39:10] <dave> I'm off to try g64 p ... thanks
[16:50:06] <SkunkWorks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[16:50:14] <SkunkWorks> woops - dave is gone
[16:51:03] <giacus> :-)
[16:51:34] <anonimasu> hi
[16:52:28] <giacus> hi anonimasu
[16:52:36] <SkunkWorks> Hi anonimasu
[16:53:39] <anonimasu> what's up?
[16:56:18] <giacus> all nice here around, I just back from doctor. Tomorrow I'll go for a complete check-up
[16:56:36] <giacus> doctors are doing a nice business here
[16:57:25] <anonimasu> :)
[16:57:25] <giacus> next time i'll born I want to become a doctor :P
[16:57:28] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:57:58] <anonimasu> next time I'm born I want to have more social skills :D
[16:58:10] <SkunkWorks> same here. :)
[16:58:18] <anonimasu> but that's probably not true..
[16:58:29] <anonimasu> it's the env.. i grew up in..
[16:58:48] <anonimasu> ;)
[16:59:12] <anonimasu> imagine a programmer with great social skills..
[16:59:18] <anonimasu> That's not something common :)
[16:59:18] <giacus> dunno.. sometime, more know about human nature more hate it
[16:59:28] <giacus> it depend
[17:00:00] <giacus> all turn around the possession
[17:00:07] <anonimasu> possession?
[17:00:28] <anonimasu> hm, I feel good today, maybe I should go and try to finish some machining
[17:00:30] <giacus> checking ..
[17:00:45] <giacus> how was sayng john lennon in his song image ?
[17:00:45] <anonimasu> I know the word, but what in what context?
[17:00:52] <giacus> image no possesion ?
[17:00:57] <anonimasu> "stuff" ?
[17:01:03] <anonimasu> yeah..
[17:01:16] <giacus> * giacus look at the dictionary ..
[17:01:33] <anonimasu> I'll be back in a hour :)
[17:01:55] <giacus> :(
[17:01:58] <giacus> haha K
[17:02:07] <anonimasu> sorry about just going in the middle of a convo..
[17:02:12] <anonimasu> talk to you later
[17:02:13] <anonimasu> bye
[17:03:01] <giacus> bye anonimasu
[17:03:39] <giacus> btw, possession was right as term, it mean exactly what I want to say ..
[17:03:56] <giacus> i'm a bit a dreamer as lennon :P
[17:04:43] <giacus> that's why I think no people could live without dream a bit :D
[17:04:47] <fenn> Imagine no possessions
[17:04:47] <fenn> I wonder if you can
[17:04:47] <fenn> No need for greed or hunger
[17:04:47] <fenn> A brotherhood of man
[17:04:49] <giacus> hehe
[17:05:23] <giacus> fenn: nice, I'm able to play it with my guitar, but I don't know the mean of all word
[17:05:47] <fenn> its really sad that christians are attacking this song
[17:05:56] <bill203> indeed.
[17:06:16] <giacus> I'm cristian, but I never attack it
[17:06:24] <giacus> I always love it
[17:06:41] <giacus> there's a big true inside it I guess
[17:09:14] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/photo/famiglia/giacomo/img009.jpeg.html :)
[17:09:29] <giacus> but I have respect for all
[17:09:46] <fenn> that just seems so creepy to me
[17:09:53] <giacus> hehe
[17:11:07] <fenn> who are these? http://www.giacus.org/photo/famiglia/giacomo/img008.jpeg.html
[17:11:45] <giacus> haha yes, I'm the one on the left
[17:11:50] <giacus> was carnival
[17:12:45] <giacus> a bit of years ago :(°
[17:12:58] <giacus> hi Jymmmm
[17:19:21] <Jymmmm> ROTFLMAO... MY hero, turn on speakers.... http://carlosmencia.com/main.php
[17:20:26] <giacus> :D
[17:23:01] <giacus> Jymmmm: I've a problem
[17:23:53] <Jymmmm> you're pregnant?
[17:24:04] <giacus> O_O who ?
[17:24:09] <giacus> haha, nope
[17:24:34] <giacus> I've been to my doctor this afternoon
[17:25:33] <giacus> I found a big difficult to explain him I agree to talk to computers, machines, and not to the peoples
[17:26:00] <giacus> any hope to get him understand that ?
[17:27:07] <giacus> I just sayd I've a nice feeling with computers, but a big difficult with the peoples
[17:27:17] <giacus> what you think about ?
[17:29:13] <giacus> no reply eh ? heheh too difficult question :P
[17:29:56] <Jymmmm> what was the question?
[17:30:45] <giacus> why is so difficult to get a nice feeling with peoples, when not with machines ?
[17:30:58] <Jymmmm> Oh, people suck.
[17:31:03] <giacus> hahahaha
[17:31:09] <giacus> nahhh
[17:31:19] <fenn> humans are poorly programmed
[17:31:23] <giacus> you're kidding
[17:31:37] <Jymmmm> giacus: yeah, they do. go listen to the link I posted.
[17:31:47] <fenn> doctors are notoriously difficult to use
[17:32:13] <giacus> Jymmmm: I tried, he speak too fast for me :(
[17:32:20] <Jymmmm> ah, ok
[17:32:26] <Jymmmm> FUNNY FUNNY shit
[17:32:48] <fenn> is this the starbucks coffe guy
[17:33:09] <Jymmmm> no idea who that is
[17:34:13] <SkunkWorks> fenn: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/pcbbot.JPG
[17:34:17] <SkunkWorks> getting there.
[17:35:09] <giacus> SkunkWorks: nice
[17:35:15] <giacus> how you got it ?
[17:35:21] <giacus> printer ?
[17:35:26] <SkunkWorks> milled
[17:35:54] <SkunkWorks> I made an engraving cutter to do that. Probably buy some official ones though when I get a chance.
[17:35:59] <giacus> oh.. ok, it was seems ink to me
[17:36:02] <giacus> nice
[17:36:16] <Jymmmm> I can't find tose micro endmills on ebay =(
[17:36:19] <Jymmmm> those
[17:36:21] <approx> seems like you get some burrs because you have sanded id?
[17:36:25] <approx> it
[17:36:35] <SkunkWorks> its a crappy picture
[17:36:46] <SkunkWorks> Yes - I had to sand it.
[17:36:53] <approx> when using proper tools and spindle you can get very clean cuts without burrs
[17:37:05] <alex_joni> hi all
[17:37:09] <SkunkWorks> That is why I want to get some decent cutters. Or try to sharpen mine better.
[17:37:15] <giacus> hi alex_joni
[17:37:29] <alex_joni> hi giacus, any news?
[17:37:36] <fenn> SkunkWorks: looks pretty good to me
[17:37:51] <approx> this is what I get with my router http://www.students.tut.fi/~kontkant/cont/cnc-jv2/020-bcp/4a3977proto.jpg
[17:38:01] <SkunkWorks> I am happy with it - I will probably make the official prototype with my cutter.
[17:38:02] <giacus> alex_joni: not yet .. I've to heard anna, today got a long day in office
[17:38:38] <SkunkWorks> approx: very nice. what cutter do you use?
[17:39:50] <alex_joni> approx: what power stage do you plan here: http://www.students.tut.fi/~kontkant/servodrive.php.html ?
[17:40:55] <approx> I used the too in right in this picture http://www.students.tut.fi/~kontkant/cont/cnc-jv2/020-bcp/1tools.jpg
[17:41:50] <SkunkWorks> approx: this is my plan http://thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm Cradek has had good luck with them
[17:41:53] <approx> closer look on traces http://dal.ton.tut.fi/a3977proto2.jpg
[17:42:22] <approx> I have some similar looking tools made by VHF
[17:42:28] <approx> I haven't used them much yet
[17:42:54] <approx> alex_joni: I'm going to use discrete mosefet power stage
[17:43:38] <SkunkWorks> approx: what is the narrowest isolation you can cut?
[17:43:55] <fenn> i wonder if a negative rake engraving cutter would help reduce burs
[17:44:24] <approx> not sure about that. depends on tool. I guess 0.3 mm can be done
[17:45:26] <fenn> approx: what voltage? are you using the surplus center p5 motors?
[17:45:46] <approx> yes, P5's. I probably use 200V mosfets
[17:47:51] <fenn> aw crap they raised the price on the power module i was thinking of using
[17:48:21] <fenn> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/FS/FSBB15CH60.html <- used to be $12
[17:49:29] <approx> and only in 1000 piece quantities
[17:52:16] <fenn> digikey has them for $16.35 in qty 1 (am i reading that right?)
[17:52:24] <anonimasu> hm
[17:54:38] <approx> fenn: are you planning to build a servo drive?
[17:54:53] <fenn> well i've got 6 of these 400W p5's
[17:55:15] <fenn> think i will use icee's design since i'm pretty familiar with it
[17:55:18] <giacus> please build an AC servodrive !
[17:56:01] <fenn> http://forums.donniebarnes.com/viewtopic.php?t=52 and http://www.lyle.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ServoController
[17:56:30] <fenn> anyway gotta make my desktop version with little brushed servos first
[17:57:34] <approx> looks promising AC drive plan
[17:57:50] <approx> any boards assembled yet?
[17:58:27] <fenn> not me
[17:59:03] <giacus> :D
[17:59:05] <fenn> damn damn damn i gotta make this jameco order
[17:59:13] <fenn> * fenn shuts up
[17:59:19] <Jymmmm> jameco? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[17:59:30] <fenn> whatever
[17:59:40] <Jymmmm> high priced bastards
[17:59:42] <fenn> they have a good website and good pricing and good selection
[18:00:26] <fenn> you are probably sour from trying to order avr's from them
[18:00:35] <fenn> but did you know digikey is atmel's main supplier?
[18:00:41] <fenn> digikey/arrow
[18:02:57] <Jymmmm> No, Jameco is (was) based here in San Jose, I used to hit the retail store all the time, the prices were always high. When I looked at the website last month, I wasn't impressed with their pricing.
[18:03:51] <fenn> well they have the best deal in town on rj45 jacks
[18:04:13] <Jymmmm> wall mount?
[18:04:21] <fenn> pcb mount
[18:04:32] <Jymmmm> you tried halsted?
[18:04:35] <fenn> $0.39 top entry $0.48 side entry
[18:04:37] <fenn> no and i dont care
[18:04:54] <Jymmmm> fenn: Don't get your panties in a bunch with me young lady!
[18:05:11] <fenn> * fenn gives jymmm a wedgie
[18:05:50] <fenn> wtf, now ebay is swimming in rj45 jakcs
[18:07:59] <Jymmmm> $0.25 and metal shielded from the looks of them... http://www.excesssolutions.com/cgi-bin/item/ES1607
[18:10:07] <SkunkWorks> fenn: I remember the 3 phase drive that larance was building. Do they actually have one running using the pico driver?
[18:11:19] <fenn> i havent heard from him in months
[18:11:35] <fenn> i think the last thing he said here was posting the url to that wiki, which hasnt changed either
[18:11:48] <fenn> so, maybe he zapped himself )
[18:12:39] <SkunkWorks> ewww. burnt hair
[18:13:40] <SkunkWorks> well I can't wait to get one axis running and seeing how a brushed servo runs only using emc as the feedback.
[18:13:56] <SkunkWorks> feedback loop.
[18:14:15] <SkunkWorks> yes I am a cheap bastard.
[18:15:01] <anonimasu> iab
[18:15:20] <fenn> let us know - i for one am interested
[18:15:52] <anonimasu> hm, I finally started making motor mounts
[18:15:56] <approx> SkunkWorks: how do you connect encoders to PC? some additional interface?
[18:16:04] <SkunkWorks> It has been done - jmk first - and now jepler is doing something similar.
[18:16:09] <anonimasu> I need a cnc machine, I'll die without one soon
[18:16:10] <anonimasu> :)
[18:16:16] <SkunkWorks> for his etche -o-sketch
[18:16:40] <alex_joni> approx: either a servo card or parport & software counting
[18:16:59] <SkunkWorks> approx: right now the encoders will be hooked into the parrallel port
[18:17:07] <approx> is there enough inputs in parallel port?
[18:17:09] <alex_joni> approx: most servo cards have counter chips (like LS7166)
[18:17:23] <alex_joni> approx: for 2-3 axes sure
[18:17:28] <alex_joni> or get a second parport
[18:17:31] <approx> and outputs too?
[18:17:49] <SkunkWorks> for what I need 2 will be fine.
[18:17:51] <approx> I have been looking for PCI card for second parport but haven't found yet
[18:17:56] <SkunkWorks> If I get that far.
[18:18:09] <jepler> one parallel port can't do more than 2 axes: you need 2 outputs and 2 inputs per axis
[18:18:24] <SkunkWorks> if it works well I will then probably get a fpga
[18:18:32] <approx> where to get additional parports?
[18:19:08] <fenn> SkunkWorks: huh?
[18:19:15] <fenn> SkunkWorks: if it works well, get more parport cards, fool!
[18:19:35] <giacus> Jymmmm: query ..
[18:19:36] <fenn> fpga's are friggin expensive
[18:19:49] <SkunkWorks> fenn: my mind went blank - its like 300 dollars and does pwm out and encoders in - field programmable array
[18:20:02] <fenn> m5i20?
[18:20:05] <SkunkWorks> tes
[18:20:07] <SkunkWorks> yes
[18:20:09] <SkunkWorks> thank you
[18:20:29] <jepler> PCI parallel port cards: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?btnG=Search&price1=&price2=25&btnP=Go&q=parallel+port+pci&lmode=online&cat=1370&lnk=catsugg
[18:20:42] <SkunkWorks> my wife loves froogle.
[18:22:32] <approx> how fast encoder counting I get with emc2? same as stepping frequency?
[18:22:59] <alex_joni> approx: almost
[18:23:21] <fenn> wouldnt it be faster because you dont have to worry about time quantization
[18:23:27] <approx> I have some linear encoders.. would like to try dual loop feedback :)
[18:23:41] <fenn> i mean you should be able to go right up to 1/2 base period
[18:23:47] <fenn> er, 2x base period
[18:24:27] <fenn> * fenn doesnt know what he's talking about, so please correct
[18:24:46] <jepler> you can have at most one quadrature "edge" per base_period
[18:24:56] <jepler> that's assuming the signal is completely clean
[18:25:22] <fenn> well you should be filtering it anyway
[18:25:23] <jepler> some encoders are specified in cycles of 4 edges
[18:26:33] <alex_joni> approx: dual loop is usually bad ;)
[18:26:34] <fenn> and you can do some minimal glitch detection, the motor wont just spontaneously reverse direction
[18:26:49] <approx> alex_joni: ?
[18:27:34] <alex_joni> approx: unstable, and hard to tune
[18:27:51] <alex_joni> unless you have a velocity loop & a position loop over that
[18:27:59] <approx> I tried linear encoder PID loop it with some AVR hack. worked nicely
[18:28:21] <alex_joni> that works, but having two loops of the same kind one inside the other is hard
[18:28:39] <alex_joni> I used encoder feedback to a gecko and to emc once, didn't quite work perfectly
[18:29:05] <approx> I tried linear encoders with steppers. no problems at all
[18:29:31] <approx> I don't see why servos would be any worse
[18:29:32] <SkunkWorks> approx: explain the linear encoders with steppers
[18:30:00] <approx> linear encoder mounted on machine axis. stepper driven by step pulses
[18:30:57] <alex_joni> ok, but don't use pid on it
[18:31:10] <approx> yes, I had PID on avr
[18:31:23] <alex_joni> pid works just the other way around that steppers want it
[18:31:54] <alex_joni> if your system misses a step, pid will make it go faster, and that only will make the motors stall
[18:32:27] <approx> yes, motors still can stall but it can be detected
[18:33:15] <fenn> alex_joni: heh so use a negative P :P
[18:35:44] <approx> linear encoder is there just to eliminate backlash and mechanical errors. not to make steppers run like servos
[18:37:56] <alex_joni> approx: right, that's why I said don't use PID
[18:39:01] <approx> is there better methods for this?
[18:39:24] <alex_joni> approx: you should use the linear encoder as position feedback only
[18:39:48] <approx> but why not to use PID to correct position?
[18:39:56] <alex_joni> maybe some small pid too, but with a small P
[18:41:45] <jepler> when you notice a stall, turn the feed rate way down and then slowly ramp it back up to unstall the motor.
[18:42:50] <alex_joni> jepler: or simply stop ;)
[18:43:00] <SkunkWorks> wouldn't you get a following error first?
[18:43:21] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: depends how it's tuned
[18:44:50] <jepler> I guess you have to have a way to inject the missed steps before you start feeding normally again
[18:45:07] <approx> PID will do that for you
[18:45:38] <jepler> straw idea: don't give following errors during G0 moves. It's not a coordinated move anyway, so it doesn't matter if you leave the idealized path from start to finish as long as you arrive at the end.
[18:48:52] <jepler> in fact, just put the end position as the commanded position and let pid or stepgen sort it out
[18:58:25] <giacus> approx: are you curious or just asking too many questions?
[18:58:52] <SkunkWorks> why can't there be a "self tuning" utility in emc?
[18:59:12] <SkunkWorks> I thought there was one initially - but it got lost along the way
[18:59:34] <giacus> SkunkWorks: I think It's hard
[18:59:46] <jepler> approx: for steppers, the better way is to not use PID at all.
[18:59:58] <giacus> but there's a reason
[19:00:08] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: around?
[19:00:09] <SkunkWorks> If you tune it by hand using halscope - I would think the computer could do it better than me.
[19:00:48] <giacus> maybe ..
[19:00:50] <SkunkWorks> than I?
[19:02:17] <giacus> the issue is to get a machine to think as a human
[19:02:23] <giacus> as much is possible
[19:02:32] <giacus> sometime, is it not so possible
[19:02:39] <giacus> that's the reason
[19:03:12] <giacus> we are always better
[19:04:19] <giacus> and the machine is always stupid
[19:04:25] <giacus> and its right so
[19:04:29] <jepler> I don't know enough about servo tuning to believe it's impossible for a computer to do it.
[19:04:57] <cradek> sure seems possible.
[19:05:09] <SkunkWorks> this is what I remember reading http://emc.sourceforge.net/Handbook/node38.html
[19:05:23] <SkunkWorks> then another one saying the script was lost.
[19:06:11] <approx> there are plenty of known methods for automated PID tuning. it would like to have one in emc too
[19:06:27] <SkunkWorks> seems like it was a start anyway
[19:06:52] <strav> he all...
[19:07:00] <jepler> any tuning software written back in 2000 is unlikely to work with emc2, even if we could find it
[19:07:30] <cradek> but the algorithm would still work and be easy to reimplement with hal
[19:07:32] <giacus> eh strav
[19:07:49] <fenn> yeah just measure the acceleration curve of the motor
[19:07:52] <fenn> just a simple matter of programming
[19:08:06] <strav> I've been looking around for a stepper moter driver board, at a good price. Any suggestion besides the ones listed on linuxcnc wiki?
[19:08:28] <cradek> right, and the PID gaines "can be deduced" from that, just another SMOP
[19:08:42] <strav> (if possible, a board which has actually been tested with emc)
[19:08:57] <fenn> strav: are you shooting for minimum cost at any cost? or something that will work reliably at decent speeds?
[19:09:19] <fenn> i could point you to a $20 board that might not work for your application
[19:09:34] <strav> My goal is actually only to practice sync motors so I merely need a toy driver.
[19:10:12] <strav> (best deal I found was at site called stepper world)
[19:10:48] <strav> fenn: does it at least can enable half-step or micro-steps?
[19:11:17] <strav> I must precise: I'm looking for one which has already 3 axis implemented.
[19:11:19] <fenn> hmm actually nevermind, forget about that board
[19:11:56] <giacus> approx: http://www.giacus.org/emcstats/emc.html :) you're not a very aggressive person
[19:12:48] <jepler> if you want a "toy" driver, use the ULN2803, one per axis (or parallel more chips for more current). It does half-stepping. 2 axis version: http://axis.unpy.net/files/etchcnc/etch-schematic.png
[19:12:53] <approx> :P
[19:13:16] <giacus> jepler: unipolar only, right ?
[19:13:18] <jepler> the good: ULN2803 is a dollar apiecce or so. the bad: unipolar, L/R is the worst design in terms of max speed
[19:13:24] <jepler> giacus: yes
[19:13:30] <giacus> I know
[19:13:42] <giacus> it is great to control a webcam in remote
[19:14:02] <giacus> cheap and good
[19:14:52] <jepler> in theory you could have emc generate a microstepping waveform .. that would be the height of silliness, though.
[19:15:28] <strav> jepler: I'd be glad to try out building it from scratch though the only thing I I want to avoid is encarving the board myself. Do you happend to sell pre-encarved boards?
[19:15:42] <fenn> wow $0.69 each for uln2803
[19:15:53] <giacus> I bought it as stock
[19:16:04] <giacus> very cheap, yeah
[19:16:17] <fenn> i think i like jameco
[19:16:23] <jepler> strav: No, I don't. But it's so simple you could assemble it on perfboard if you wanted
[19:18:06] <fenn> oh, send the poor guy a board
[19:18:24] <SkunkWorks> cradek - now that I mentioned the pid auto tuning - is it going to be done? I seem to have that effect on people :)
[19:18:36] <jepler> SkunkWorks: we thought you were going to do it
[19:18:53] <fenn> * fenn cracks the whip
[19:18:58] <SkunkWorks> jepler: I wish
[19:19:03] <fenn> no excuses
[19:19:11] <giacus> :D
[19:19:31] <cradek> SkunkWorks: if you come up with the algorithm and do the math, I bet someone would do the hal part if you can't
[19:19:49] <SkunkWorks> Its like I have my own personal team of programmers _ makes me feel powerfull whoo ha ha ha ha
[19:20:09] <strav> fenn: one has to start small... else he's a self-inflated idiot.
[19:20:12] <fenn> pff, "if you want something done right, do it yourself"
[19:20:44] <SkunkWorks> I will see what I can come up with.
[19:21:00] <fenn> strav: i forget if its on the wiki, but check out pminmo.com
[19:21:09] <SkunkWorks> http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
[19:23:24] <giacus> nice, that's the board cradek use
[19:23:35] <SkunkWorks> there was some pretty nice setups on ebay with motors a while back. Around 100 dollars an axis if I remember right.
[19:23:42] <strav> yep this one is on the wiki. Thing is I tought I absolutely needed to carve the board myself. (didn't had much time for checking this out, lately)
[19:24:00] <fenn> i really hate when companies remind you that they have all your personal information
[19:24:18] <strav> what I found at stepper world was about 170$ for 3 axis integrated.
[19:24:31] <giacus> fenn: who ?
[19:25:09] <SkunkWorks> carve? as in mill or etch?
[19:25:15] <giacus> they really go on so
[19:25:40] <giacus> just selling personal informations
[19:26:19] <giacus> a right law would be nice
[19:26:41] <giacus> but politicians don't know waht the net is ! :/
[19:27:27] <giacus> anonimasu: wb
[19:27:31] <anonimasu> thanks
[19:27:44] <strav> skunk: well come out with the copper sheme done on board
[19:30:26] <strav> I don't feel much like getting a used car battery and a compass kit.
[19:31:16] <alex_joni> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2942922314315974986 <- that's a nice setup
[19:33:26] <giacus> huh.. The url is invalid and can't be loaded
[19:33:39] <SWPadnos> that's an awesome video
[19:33:39] <alex_joni> does work here..
[19:33:56] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: doesn't it make you wanna cnc it?
[19:34:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:34:03] <alex_joni> lol
[19:34:12] <SWPadnos> it's already animated - what could be more CNC than that? ;)
[19:34:12] <strav> hehe. I wonder how the guy did it. Either by sequencing the balls from the tracks or sequencing the sound from the balls.
[19:34:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I meant for real
[19:34:49] <SWPadnos> the air-based aiming would be hard ;)
[19:35:00] <SWPadnos> there is a CNC guitar-like instrument I've seen
[19:36:01] <giacus> wow alex_joni nice
[19:36:10] <SWPadnos> and I think Ray mentioned that he was working on a "player violin" some years ago
[19:36:26] <strav> (but this suff ain't hard to do... most 3d apps have already integrated motion controllers that react to the amplitude of a sound...the only challenge is a good sound tracking to work with the controller)
[19:37:15] <fenn> i dont really see what the big deal is about that video
[19:37:23] <fenn> maybe if they actually did it in reality
[19:37:45] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm hands fenn his anti-crusty pills
[19:37:47] <Jymmmm> =)
[19:38:01] <SWPadnos> it's well done music, and the animation is also interesting.
[19:38:03] <fenn> * fenn hands jymmm his suppositories
[19:38:15] <Jymmmm> fenn no thanks, no need for those
[19:38:19] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos sends Jymmmm and fenn to the planning room
[19:38:56] <alex_joni> fenn: maybe this is better: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4886526472898348120
[19:39:27] <strav> gotta go. Thanks for the links, usefull or not.
[19:40:08] <giacus> Jymmmm: did u read the query ?
[19:41:42] <Jymmmm> ????
[19:42:28] <giacus> how much FW are you using ? :((
[19:42:36] <fenn> alex_joni: hmm i had that movie but deleted it on accident before i got to watch it
[19:42:52] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Any thoughts on these? http://cgi.ebay.com/50X-NEW-3mm-WHITE-LED-LAMP-WIDE-VIEWING-ANGLE-18-000mcd_W0QQitemZ7617357065QQcategoryZ66948QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:43:14] <Jymmmm> what a POS switch this is, and it's $30!
[19:43:21] <SkunkWorks> coworker has the animusic dvd
[19:43:34] <Jymmmm> SkunkWorks how is it?
[19:43:40] <SkunkWorks> pretty cool
[19:43:49] <SkunkWorks> I would watch it once :)
[19:43:52] <giacus> Jymmmm: I was calling you
[19:44:22] <Jymmmm> giacus I dont understand what your saying/asking of me
[19:44:39] <giacus> I was queryng you
[19:44:40] <SkunkWorks> he is trying to talk to you in a different irc window
[19:44:47] <SkunkWorks> chat
[19:45:03] <Jymmmm> ah
[19:45:55] <giacus> alex_joni: I seen time ago a robot palyng a flute
[19:46:06] <giacus> can't find the video right now
[19:46:11] <Jymmmm> I remember the robot playing a flute
[19:46:13] <giacus> but was very nice
[19:46:31] <giacus> can't find the url
[19:47:42] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, those should output somewhere around 75% of the luminous flux that the 135000 mcd ones do
[19:48:02] <SWPadnos> unless the 10mm vs. 5mm size makes a difference
[19:48:30] <SWPadnos> if so, then the big ones are ~5x more "flux-y"
[19:49:00] <SWPadnos> that's assuming that the big ones are 12 degrees, which is what I think I remember from our previous conversation
[19:49:44] <SWPadnos> the way I calculated that was to take sin(angle)^2 * mcd rating
[19:50:29] <SWPadnos> the sin^2 function gives you a number proportional to spot size. multiplying by brightness (intensity) gives a number that should be proportional to total luminous flux output
[19:51:34] <SkunkWorks> here are the 2 "servos" I will be playing with. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/SERVO.JPG
[19:54:05] <SkunkWorks> it has an integrated encoder - I have not played with it yet - I hope to use it.
[19:54:07] <SkunkWorks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/SERENC.JPG
[19:54:12] <giacus> SkunkWorks: nice
[19:54:21] <K4ts> hello
[19:54:27] <giacus> hey K4ts
[19:54:37] <giacus> you there ?
[19:54:49] <SkunkWorks> they are out of old line printers - but it gives me something small to play with.
[19:55:19] <alex_joni> line printers rule
[19:55:21] <giacus> nice surplus
[19:55:49] <fenn> SkunkWorks: you coming to the cnc-workshop>
[19:55:57] <SkunkWorks> the last 3 days
[19:55:59] <SkunkWorks> :)
[19:56:06] <SkunkWorks> cradek talked me into it.
[19:56:09] <fenn> good
[19:56:42] <fenn> is that a temperature sensor?
[19:56:47] <giacus> K4ts: any news from antonietta ?
[19:58:02] <K4ts> ?
[19:58:19] <SkunkWorks> Fenn: Are you talking to me? that is the encoder on the back of the motor. You can see the disk.
[19:58:28] <SkunkWorks> (little out of focus)
[19:58:35] <giacus> K4ts: novità da antonietta ?
[19:58:40] <K4ts> no
[19:58:54] <giacus> could you please ask then ?
[19:58:57] <fenn> i meant the white/red wire with red goo on it
[19:59:45] <SkunkWorks> 2 brushes
[20:00:23] <giacus> K4ts: ask her and let me know
[20:00:29] <giacus> ok ?
[20:00:36] <giacus> :)
[20:00:50] <fenn> SkunkWorks: oh heh, nevermind
[20:01:45] <giacus> * giacus give K4ts a big english dictionary :P
[20:03:09] <giacus> K4ts: O_O
[20:03:34] <K4ts> sto parlando al telefono
[20:03:41] <K4ts> con la prprietaria
[20:03:41] <giacus> ok ..
[20:04:08] <giacus> she's busy to phone ..
[20:04:10] <giacus> grrrr
[20:06:58] <SkunkWorks> we actually had the line printers for a while before we took them apart. You could put them into a test mode and it would print out the ascii charecter set. The paper would be 100% convered with text and flying out of the printer.
[20:07:51] <giacus> * giacus play mplayer 06 - Track06_Kc & The Sunshine Band.mpc
[20:07:52] <SkunkWorks> some had an hammer for each posision - and a rotating drum with the charecters
[20:08:03] <alex_joni> SkunkWorks: scary.. huh?
[20:08:07] <SkunkWorks> eys
[20:08:09] <SkunkWorks> yes
[20:08:34] <SkunkWorks> ah the good old days :)
[20:09:04] <K4ts> giacus
[20:09:31] <giacus> * giacus is busy playng 06 - Track06_Kc & The Sunshine Band.mpc
[20:09:42] <giacus> hehe K4ts ! tell me all
[20:10:15] <SkunkWorks> giacus: are you making k4ts pimp out her friends?
[20:10:28] <giacus> I'm tryng ..
[20:11:12] <giacus> K4ts: ??
[20:11:23] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Ah, very cool. Not TOO expensive, think I'll order them.
[20:14:04] <K4ts> tonight is nervous giacus?
[20:14:23] <alex_joni> lol.. :)
[20:14:35] <giacus> ^_^
[20:15:03] <giacus> K4ts: did you understand what I asked you ?
[20:15:04] <K4ts> mah is mad
[20:15:15] <giacus> :(
[20:15:18] <K4ts> ahah
[20:15:29] <K4ts> 700 euro
[20:15:32] <K4ts> sigh
[20:16:03] <giacus> for your house ?
[20:16:10] <K4ts> yes for mounth
[20:16:17] <giacus> E. 700 /month ?
[20:16:20] <giacus> nothing ..
[20:16:21] <K4ts> 4 room
[20:16:30] <giacus> seems cheap to me :)
[20:16:37] <giacus> in the centre of naples
[20:16:47] <K4ts> 3 piano
[20:16:52] <giacus> why do not you move into the mountains around ?
[20:16:59] <giacus> 3th floor
[20:17:05] <giacus> :D
[20:17:17] <K4ts> penso di
[20:17:21] <K4ts> prenderla se mi piace
[20:17:30] <giacus> saputo niente di antonietta per alex ?
[20:17:47] <K4ts> antonietta è in pieno trasloco
[20:17:57] <K4ts> dalle una decina di giorni
[20:17:59] <giacus> fammi sapere (let me know)
[20:18:04] <giacus> ok
[20:18:33] <giacus> she's going to wrk or not ?
[20:18:38] <giacus> work
[20:19:09] <K4ts> alexwhait 10 day for new holiday?
[20:19:25] <giacus> eh ?
[20:19:33] <K4ts> ho detto se puo aspettare
[20:19:38] <K4ts> 10 giorni
[20:19:41] <giacus> if he can wait ?
[20:19:52] <giacus> we can wait
[20:19:59] <giacus> but let me know ok ?
[20:20:02] <K4ts> è inutile che fai il professore ahah
[20:20:05] <K4ts> mettimi
[20:20:08] <giacus> :)
[20:20:08] <K4ts> translate
[20:20:11] <K4ts> altrimenti
[20:20:15] <giacus> ok.. ok
[20:20:17] <K4ts> sto ore intere per tradurre
[20:20:30] <giacus> understood
[20:20:40] <K4ts> alex_joni: sorry for my italien
[20:20:44] <giacus> :-)
[20:20:50] <giacus> again ??
[20:20:54] <giacus> italian ?
[20:21:05] <giacus> you must say sorry for my english !!
[20:21:06] <K4ts> I not have translate
[20:21:10] <SkunkWorks> is the pid in axis parrallel or series?
[20:21:11] <K4ts> no
[20:21:13] <K4ts> perchè
[20:21:13] <giacus> lol
[20:21:21] <K4ts> si innervosisce se scrivo qui in italiano
[20:21:24] <K4ts> ecco perchè
[20:21:29] <giacus> ok, relax
[20:21:31] <K4ts> ho detto scusa per l italiano
[20:21:34] <giacus> hehe
[20:21:49] <giacus> hai sbagliato (you're worng)
[20:22:11] <K4ts> giacus banggggggggggg
[20:22:22] <giacus> dovresti dire scusa per il mio inglese ( you should say sorry for my bad english..)
[20:22:28] <K4ts> no
[20:22:29] <giacus> * giacus died
[20:22:52] <giacus> K4ts: are you a very aggressive persone then ?!
[20:22:53] <K4ts> perchè quando uno non scrive in inglese qui alex_joni si arrabbia
[20:23:03] <giacus> :D
[20:23:25] <giacus> please anyone can explain her what I meant :(°°°
[20:23:26] <K4ts> se entri in msn
[20:23:29] <K4ts> è meglio
[20:23:37] <alex_joni> que e arrabbia?
[20:23:51] <K4ts> you!
[20:23:53] <Jymmmm> K4ts: giacus says you are a mean person!
[20:24:03] <giacus> rotl
[20:24:11] <giacus> what are you sayng ??!!
[20:24:15] <Jymmmm> K4ts: you beat up all your boyfriends!
[20:24:56] <K4ts> yes Jymmmm
[20:24:59] <Jymmmm> lol
[20:25:03] <giacus> K4ts: ok..ok
[20:25:11] <giacus> should I run msn ?
[20:25:14] <K4ts> kikked giacus
[20:25:20] <K4ts> ahah
[20:25:24] <giacus> ok..
[20:25:36] <giacus> now asking to emacs to run msn, wait ..
[20:25:51] <giacus> let me search ..
[20:25:56] <giacus> :(
[20:26:07] <giacus> bitlbee.org
[20:26:12] <giacus> K4ts: I'm
[20:26:14] <alex_joni> oh-oh ;)
[20:26:19] <giacus> haha
[20:26:40] <giacus> K4ts: ok.. I'm on msn
[20:26:44] <giacus> * giacus sighs
[20:26:44] <K4ts> k4ts eat ice cream spiteful for giacus
[20:27:02] <Jymmmm> K4ts take a photo, and email it to giacus
[20:27:24] <fenn> feed it to the dog!
[20:27:47] <fenn> k4ts tirelo al cane
[20:28:07] <K4ts> ahah fenn
[20:28:13] <K4ts> yes
[20:28:18] <K4ts> kira eat giacus
[20:28:23] <K4ts> ahah
[20:28:25] <giacus> :(
[20:28:49] <fenn> K4ts: ice cream not giacus
[20:28:51] <K4ts> k4at smack giacus
[20:28:54] <K4ts> ahah
[20:29:01] <Jymmmm> fenn both
[20:30:03] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/files/kyra.png
[20:30:16] <giacus> that should be kyra eating me hahaha
[20:30:27] <giacus> K4ts: you're a looser
[20:30:36] <Jymmmm> K4ts: That your puppy?
[20:30:42] <giacus> buy a doberman
[20:30:43] <K4ts> ice cream yes
[20:30:57] <K4ts> yes is my dog
[20:31:15] <Jymmmm> K4ts: I dislike small dogs, but he's cute.
[20:31:35] <giacus> * giacus eat kyras at breakfast
[20:32:00] <giacus> again :/
[20:32:06] <Jymmmm> K4ts: boot giacus!
[20:32:44] <giacus> hey guys, too much peoples beat giacus here around
[20:32:55] <Jymmmm> not enough!!!
[20:33:04] <giacus> warning, anything is written !
[20:33:07] <giacus> :D
[20:33:20] <alex_joni> logger_aj: beat giacus up
[20:33:20] <alex_joni> I'm logging. I don't understand 'beat giacus up', alex_joni. Try /msg logger_aj help
[20:33:43] <giacus> * giacus loves logger_aj
[20:34:02] <K4ts> ahah love
[20:36:12] <giacus> love and piece brothers, stop the war :)
[20:37:04] <giacus> K4ts: sorry.. you're right, I'm wrong , I missed all
[20:37:19] <giacus> are you happy now ? :)
[20:38:04] <giacus> psss K4ts you must say YES! now ..
[20:38:58] <giacus> with a bit of late as woman usually do ..
[20:39:20] <fogl> hello, does anybody intend to record the emc class at the cnc workshop, i would like to see this if possible?
[20:39:51] <fenn> hmm last year it was sort of spontaneous
[20:39:57] <giacus> * giacus give a gift to K4ts : apt-get install ntpdate
[20:40:12] <fenn> i was tihnking about bringing a webcam but i may not get around to setting it all up
[20:40:22] <fenn> since i'd have to buy one and figure out how to use it etc
[20:40:47] <fenn> fogl: is there actually a class planned?
[20:41:06] <fogl> http://www.cnc-workshop.com/emc_schedule_notes.htm
[20:42:54] <cradek> I think ray is planning a lot of things - you should ask him about it
[20:45:59] <fogl> do you have his e-mail?
[20:47:00] <fenn> oh cool a casting workshop
[20:47:25] <fogl> dont you think it would be nice to upload these movies to emc web page?
[20:47:55] <cradek> yes but video of hours worth of classes would be a bit unmanageable
[20:48:35] <Jymmmm> put the videos in the wiki with everything else!
[20:49:07] <cradek> Jymmmm: it's possible you've had worse ideas, but I can't think of one right now
[20:49:50] <Jymmmm> cradek: whats to managing videos?! you shove em in a directory and let apache do what it does best!
[20:50:04] <SWPadnos> we've got to something to use up the pace and bandwidth ;)
[20:50:11] <SWPadnos> s/pace/space/
[20:50:19] <cradek> the wiki is on sf and can barely manage the 1k pages we type in
[20:50:33] <SWPadnos> oh yeah
[20:53:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni can host videos on dsplabs
[20:53:18] <alex_joni> shouldn't be a problem up to a few gigs
[20:53:24] <SWPadnos> they can be put on dreamhost. I've got space and bandwidth to spare
[20:53:44] <SWPadnos> ~74G space / 2TB bandwidth
[20:54:04] <SWPadnos> err - 2TB/month transfer
[21:08:17] <giacus> j #gnus
[21:12:52] <giacus> how much are the bots intelligent now ?
[21:13:23] <giacus> <giacus> what's up ?
[21:13:23] <giacus> [23:10]<giacus> I'm from italy
[21:13:23] <giacus> <giacus> you ?
[21:13:23] <giacus> <fsbot> you is, like, an ingrate who doesn't want to serve me beer.
[21:13:28] <giacus> O_O
[21:19:38] <A-L-P-H-A> isn't that fromt he Ali G show?
[21:19:44] <A-L-P-H-A> hate that show
[21:24:50] <giacus> cant find Ali G show here around .. A-L-P-H-A
[21:25:54] <K4ts> giacus
[21:26:58] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus. you're lucky
[21:27:54] <giacus> why ? O_O
[21:28:15] <A-L-P-H-A> go find an ep on youtube, or google.
[21:28:31] <giacus> ah ... ok
[21:58:12] <giacus> goodnight
[21:58:19] <alex_joni> goodnight
[22:01:58] <K4ts> night