#emc | Logs for 2006-04-27

[02:56:27] <jepler> boy it's been real busy since the last time I looked over here
[04:23:20] <Jymmm> ?
[05:45:56] <Jymmm> http://search.ebay.com/7556293444
[05:46:14] <Jymmm> 2000 hits on that
[06:04:12] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0628.JPG <- what i've been doing
[06:13:33] <Jymmm> calibrating the focus on your camera?
[06:14:19] <fenn> yes i know my camera sucks
[06:14:42] <Jymmm> I thik you just need a good light... been saying that for a while now.
[06:14:45] <Jymmm> think
[06:14:47] <fenn> that is actually through a magnifying glass
[06:14:58] <Jymmm> what are those anyway?
[06:15:02] <fenn> otherwise it's REALLY blurry
[06:15:12] <fenn> they're hubs to attach to timing pulleys
[06:15:19] <fenn> msc didnt send me the pulleys with hubs! bastards
[06:15:20] <Jymmm> ah
[06:15:35] <fenn> anyway i need to attach a thingy to it so its not all bad
[06:15:36] <Jymmm> bastages!
[06:15:57] <Jymmm> you still need a good light down there =)
[06:17:08] <alex_joni> fenn: you might need a better light
[06:17:35] <fenn> * fenn whines
[06:21:52] <alex_joni> fenn: kidding ;)
[06:30:49] <alex_joni> what camera is it?
[06:31:06] <fenn> a kodak DC3200
[06:32:48] <Jymmm> I'm not, you need some lighting down there!
[06:33:09] <fenn> i really hate fluorescents.. any suggestions on what to use?
[06:33:47] <fenn> i've already got 5 lights in a 6 foot area
[06:33:51] <Jymmm> They have new floresents now, there's also halogen
[06:34:31] <Jymmm> maybe setup a halogen just for shooting pics
[06:34:49] <fenn> you think that will improve the focus of the camera?
[06:34:59] <fenn> its just a cmos chip and lens
[06:35:08] <Jymmm> On some cameras it's manditory
[06:35:18] <Jymmm> for focus that is
[06:35:49] <Jymmm> My D70 has a special light built in just for that.
[06:35:57] <fenn> i want to do macro shots of circuit boards and stuff too
[06:36:11] <Jymmm> I also have stobes and speedlight too
[06:36:53] <Jymmm> Yeah, I shoot PCB's once in a while... I use a couple lights and a reflector
[06:37:29] <fenn> i figured the easiest way would be a flatbed scanner
[06:37:55] <Jymmm> difficult when there are components
[06:38:21] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you don't compare a D70 with a DC3200
[06:38:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni for focusing methods you can.
[06:39:21] <alex_joni> DC3200 = 1Mpixel, non-zoom ...
[06:39:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni for focusing methods you can.
[06:39:57] <Jymmm> Mp means nothign in this context
[06:39:59] <fenn> and the stupid flash always charges up every time you turn the camera on, draining the batteries
[06:40:30] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not likely, on your D70 it's not the CMOS doing the focus
[06:40:54] <alex_joni> I mean the mirror doesn't go up, everytime you want to focus.. does it?
[06:43:15] <alex_joni> but you are right, light always helps on focusing
[06:43:34] <alex_joni> fenn: and also you might consider a cheap tripod to keep it from moving around
[06:44:06] <Jymmm> the DC3200 has no tripod socket.
[06:44:08] <alex_joni> fenn: does it have a 10s delay? (usually for autoportrets)
[06:44:39] <Jymmm> fenn: Hey, your camera has a power adapter jack on it.... no need for batteries
[06:44:47] <fenn> * fenn coughs
[06:45:08] <fenn> no delay as far as i know
[06:45:23] <fenn> it does delay about 1 second after you push the button though :)
[06:45:59] <fenn> jymmm i took this picture just for you: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0629.JPG
[06:46:47] <fenn> hm it looks a lot less bright than irl
[06:46:53] <alex_joni> fenn: nice dungeon
[06:46:56] <alex_joni> ;-)
[06:47:18] <fenn> hang on lemme cheat with gimp
[06:48:13] <Jymmm> If you install new lighting, you can fix that fire trap of wires and cables too =)
[06:48:44] <fenn> never heard of cat4 starting a fire
[06:49:05] <Jymmm> it was more the power strips plugged into power strips handing from the ceiling
[06:49:12] <fenn> yeah i'm pissed about that
[06:49:23] <fenn> i had a power strip that sat on my bench just fine, then someone stole it
[06:49:32] <Jymmm> bastards!
[06:49:38] <fenn> then someone put a new power strip there to charge up their 20 fucking battery chargers
[06:49:43] <fenn> and it falls out all the time
[06:50:19] <Jymmm> extension cable, then power strip maybe?
[06:50:24] <fenn> the big smiling monster thing is a skateboard press
[06:52:26] <Jymmm> do floresents bother you that much?
[06:54:56] <fenn> yep
[06:55:25] <fenn> i think painting the walls/floor white would be much better than installing more lights
[06:55:31] <Jymmm> check out the newer ones... coming close to regular bulbs
[06:55:59] <fenn> the little curly ones? those are even worse
[06:56:05] <fenn> physically painful to look at
[06:56:22] <Jymmm> no, newer 4ft tubes
[06:58:44] <Jymmm> Full Spectrum Fluorescent
[06:59:16] <fenn> yeah i had some in my fish tank, they're much better i agree
[06:59:49] <Jymmm> I think the newer ones are called natural lighting - something like that
[07:01:26] <Jymmm> saw them on a tv commercial, just forgot the details
[07:44:11] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[07:44:11] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[09:59:44] <giacus> morning :)
[10:10:47] <alex_joni> morning giacus
[10:11:44] <giacus> hi alex_joni
[10:18:22] <alex_joni> what's up?
[10:21:37] <giacus> replyng to some mail --
[10:23:49] <alex_joni> coo
[11:35:49] <giacus`> damn telecom ..
[11:35:58] <alex_joni> huh ;)
[11:36:03] <giacus`> :)
[11:41:24] <alex_joni> try /ns GHOST giacus passwd
[11:42:24] <giacus`> :D
[11:42:29] <giacus`> giacus` is now known as giacus
[11:42:49] <giacus> thanks ;P
[11:56:19] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/Hal_Introduction.lyx: added STG driver description
[12:31:16] <rayh> logger_aj, bookmark
[12:31:16] <rayh> See
[13:06:01] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[13:06:01] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[14:49:21] <CIA-4> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: fixed quit message
[14:54:49] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[15:02:11] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[15:06:20] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[15:13:28] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[15:15:56] <Jymmm> I can't find those micro endmills with the plastic rings on ebay - and you know they gotta be there somewhere
[15:16:23] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[15:23:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> g'day
[15:30:33] <Jymmm> mornin
[15:42:14] <bill20r3> hi.
[16:09:17] <CIA-4> 03rayh 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: fix to settings to add config
[16:12:25] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10v2_0_branch/: build PASSED
[16:24:00] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10v2_0_branch/: build PASSED
[16:27:38] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10v2_0_branch/: build PASSED
[16:35:37] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10v2_0_branch/: build PASSED
[16:37:02] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10v2_0_branch/: build PASSED
[17:48:46] <CIA-4> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: fixed sort that I broke
[17:54:26] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:00:34] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:01:32] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Is it possible to have compile-farm notify ONLY of failures instead of EVERYTHING by chance?
[18:01:51] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yes, but that's on the dev-list
[18:02:20] <alex_joni> I mean it only emails when failures
[18:02:26] <alex_joni> in here it shouldn't be that bad
[18:02:30] <CIA-4> 03rayh 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/Hal_Introduction.lyx: two tiny edits
[18:03:30] <Jymmm> it's just flooding... If it only ran a couple of times a day I'd understand that, but all the time is just annoying.
[18:04:01] <alex_joni> it's only running when there are commits to the code
[18:04:10] <Jymmm> it's still flooding
[18:04:15] <alex_joni> look away
[18:04:29] <Jymmm> there sno need for the PASSED items
[18:05:09] <cradek> Jymmm: the developers seem to disagree
[18:05:55] <Jymmm> For what practical purpose does it serve to have the PASSEd notified all the time?
[18:06:50] <rayh> Perhaps there would be a middle ground here. Most (all) of my commits don't need compiling and compiling does nothing to test them.
[18:07:11] <cradek> true it would be nice if it could tell if it's a code change
[18:08:17] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:08:47] <skunkworks> I think we just need to get rid of the CIA-4 person.
[18:09:00] <skunkworks> he is the one causing all the problems
[18:09:09] <alex_joni> lol
[18:09:16] <skunkworks> she?
[18:09:18] <rayh> or perhaps rayh!
[18:09:33] <alex_joni> cradek, ray: maybe we should move CIA to #emc-devel ?
[18:09:47] <rayh> kick, ban, you outa here, boy!
[18:10:08] <rayh> That works for me. Most interested folk are already over there as well as here.
[18:10:08] <cradek> alex_joni: no, I want the most public channel to show the activity of the project
[18:10:11] <skunkworks> bbl - changing the oil in the rider.
[18:10:26] <Jymmm> cradek huh?
[18:10:58] <cradek> Jymmm: huh what?
[18:11:02] <alex_joni> cradek: all righty then
[18:11:02] <rayh> maybe cia over on devel and commit at both.
[18:11:37] <rayh> I have been watch the reports of success at the farm.
[18:11:45] <rayh> I like em.
[18:11:46] <Jymmm> cradek: "show the activity of the project" is that why the PASSED are being displayed? (I have ZERO issues on failures)
[18:11:49] <cradek> I honestly don't see why it's a problem, I like seeing them too
[18:12:43] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:14:27] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10documents/scratch.txt: a special greeting from CIA to Jymmm
[18:14:51] <cradek> haha
[18:15:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni couldn't help it...
[18:17:07] <CIA-4> 03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[18:22:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's a rather... interesting log there (scratch.txt)
[18:22:50] <rayh> I love it, thanks for that exchange.
[18:23:52] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: documents/scratch.txt is a file we use for testing purposes only. like new users to make sure they got a grip over cvs
[18:24:24] <rayh> So they don't trash the whole system like I did the first time.
[18:26:53] <jepler> I'd like to find a way to have fewer PASSED messages while still showing that the system is working
[18:27:30] <alex_joni> maybe one single message containing: BDI-LIVE:Passed, Ubuntu: Failed, etc.. ?
[18:27:37] <jepler> e.g., only print PASSED after a FAILED, or every time for the "lead architecture" (e.g., ubuntu or bdi4, take your pick)
[18:30:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is the change history saved a-la wiki in cvs (or the version of cvs you run)?
[18:30:51] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes
[18:31:05] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: that's exactly what CVS is fore
[18:31:09] <jepler> s/fore/for/
[18:32:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> does anyone know if teh bug jmkasunich was working on got fixed/has found out something?
[18:32:30] <jepler> which bug is this?
[18:33:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra> the one with the line-interpolated curve giving erratic acceleration when going from one line to another
[18:34:13] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: jmk and I fully understand the problem, but there's not an easy fix, only the things we previously suggested to make it better
[18:34:28] <jepler> cradek: this is the problem due to time quantization?
[18:34:37] <cradek> yes
[18:34:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: Ok, just as long as you're aware of it and all then I'm pleased
[18:35:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: is it possible to fix it entirely?
[18:35:45] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: a friend used to say "it's just a simple matter of programming" in response to questions like that
[18:35:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: or would that require so large a rewrite that it's impractical
[18:36:02] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: in other words, anything is possible, but it's sometimes hard
[18:37:08] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: in this case, I think an entirely new planning algorithm would be needed. We will do that some day, but not right away
[18:38:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: sometime around EMC3 or still the EMC2-base? (what I mean is, is it years or months), as far as you can tell
[18:38:19] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra: emc developers are very weird..
[18:38:29] <alex_joni> sometimes they decide and do things overnight
[18:38:39] <alex_joni> other times they tend to sleep on a problem for years
[18:38:51] <rayh> I resemble that remark about wierd
[18:39:16] <alex_joni> rayh: ok, is odd better?
[18:39:26] <alex_joni> and btw, I am kidding...
[18:39:31] <rayh> I'm all of that also.
[18:39:36] <alex_joni> and I was mostly talking about myself :)
[18:40:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that sounds like most developers (not limited to EMC) ;)
[18:41:08] <alex_joni> might be so..
[18:42:35] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10documents/images/ (axis.png keystick.png mini.png tkemc.png): added GUI screenshots
[18:42:43] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: the thing about free software is that you get to talk to us and get direct help for cheap (worth every penny you paid for it, I hope) but you don't usually get a timetable or promises or stuff like that.
[18:43:06] <alex_joni> or even if you do, it's not worth much :)
[18:43:10] <cradek> one of these days, someone will get a bug in his shorts and write us a new planner, but it's hard to even guess when
[18:43:24] <cradek> heck, it might even be me
[18:43:34] <alex_joni> heck, you did it the last time :)
[18:43:40] <Jymmm> is ther a bug list somewhere?
[18:43:46] <cradek> yes, on sourceforge
[18:43:55] <Jymmm> current?
[18:44:05] <alex_joni> Jymmm: there are bug & feature requests on Sourceforge
[18:44:07] <cradek> yes, I just edited one a few days ago
[18:44:12] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[18:44:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm: anyone can add discovered bugs & needed features there
[18:44:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: that is one of the main reasons I really enjoy OSS
[18:45:34] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: I'm a believer in it too
[18:54:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: are there any other OS-cnc controllers, or all they all proprietary/closed source? (not that I plan to switch, I'm just curious)
[18:58:42] <alex_joni> there is another project called Open-Cascade, but I didn't investigate it very much
[18:58:51] <alex_joni> most of the software used out there is closed source
[19:27:28] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/emc2/introduction.lyx: added UI screenshots
[19:57:57] <fenn> open cascade is a cad library
[19:58:14] <alex_joni> fenn: there was some open something that does control too
[19:58:40] <fenn> maybe youre thinking orocos
[19:59:06] <alex_joni> yeah, that one
[19:59:15] <alex_joni> soemthing with an O
[19:59:25] <fenn> stands for open robot control something
[19:59:33] <Jymmm> http://www.orocos.org/
[19:59:38] <alex_joni> CIA-4: what's wrong? did Jymmm make you shut up?
[19:59:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: :-)
[20:00:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni No, it's on ignore, but I hate doing that becasue it's useful in other channles, just excessive in here.
[20:00:44] <alex_joni> odd.. I just commited something, and it didn't show up
[20:00:57] <jepler> alex_joni: it sometimes .. doesn't get the messages
[20:01:26] <alex_joni> silly CIA.. they need better snitches
[20:02:04] <alex_joni> salut phil_, ca va?
[20:02:08] <phil_> hello room
[20:02:13] <phil_> ouii !
[20:02:42] <alex_joni> phil_: et emc2?
[20:02:42] <phil_> dont say me you speak french ! ;) ??
[20:02:54] <alex_joni> phil_: jus'que un petit peux
[20:02:58] <alex_joni> and very badly..
[20:03:14] <phil_> non c'est bien !..
[20:03:33] <phil_> EMC2 work great ! ;)
[20:03:39] <alex_joni> YAY
[20:03:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy
[20:03:50] <phil_> the sound of the motors are beautifull !
[20:03:58] <phil_> never heard that with windows !
[20:04:03] <phil_> me too ;)
[20:04:16] <jepler> phil_: have you made anything yet? Or just listened?
[20:04:23] <alex_joni> ok, you need one more thing I suspect (to make your homing work ok)
[20:04:25] <phil_> ( hello room ) !
[20:04:34] <phil_> yep
[20:04:42] <phil_> i need some little help more ..
[20:04:50] <alex_joni> phil_: sure, just ask :)
[20:04:51] <giacus> hello phil_
[20:05:12] <phil_> 1/ i want change the DIR of Z
[20:05:17] <phil_> hi giacus
[20:05:46] <phil_> 2/ SW-HOME dont work
[20:05:59] <alex_joni> 1. is easy (just make INPUT_SCALE negative)
[20:06:15] <phil_> ok i search
[20:06:19] <alex_joni> 2. the switches do work, but emc2 isn't configured to use them
[20:06:43] <alex_joni> 1. in /home/phil/emc2/configs/philmachine/stepper_mm.ini (if I remember that right)
[20:07:07] <phil_> i open the file
[20:07:34] <alex_joni> go to [AXIS_2] (that is Z)
[20:08:13] <phil_> i found INPUT_SCALLE = 32 .. change to -32 ?
[20:08:18] <alex_joni> yup
[20:08:42] <phil_> done
[20:08:56] <phil_> well the 2/ now ?
[20:08:57] <alex_joni> since you are there... a bit more down you see HOME_SEARCH_VEL
[20:09:18] <alex_joni> that is the velocity used during homing to search for the SW-HOME
[20:09:52] <phil_> yes, it's 0.0
[20:09:56] <alex_joni> if you have a positive velocity it will go in one direction, if it's negative it will search the other direction
[20:10:07] <alex_joni> you need to change 0.0 with a safe value
[20:10:26] <alex_joni> not too low, or homing will take too much time, not too high because it will go over the switch
[20:10:44] <alex_joni> the actual speed depends on your machine
[20:10:45] <phil_> wich safe value ?
[20:10:53] <phil_> ok i must try
[20:10:58] <alex_joni> I have no idea at what speeds your machine moves
[20:11:03] <phil_> ( i'm not on the machine now
[20:11:23] <alex_joni> maybe start emc2, go to MDI mode and try some moves (G1X10 F20) (G1X0 F50)...
[20:11:35] <alex_joni> and see which speed is like the one you would think it's ok for homing
[20:11:43] <alex_joni> this is all trial & error
[20:11:45] <phil_> sorry, i come back in 2 minutes..
[20:12:04] <alex_joni> remember to change all 3 axes (the HOME_SEARCH_VEL)
[20:13:24] <phil_> im back sorry
[20:13:31] <alex_joni> no problem
[20:13:36] <jepler> alex_joni: I've never had a machine with home switches. So emc will always move in a set direction to find the home position?
[20:13:44] <alex_joni> jepler: yes
[20:13:59] <jepler> alex_joni: I have to always be to the left (e.g.) of the home location before I hit the "home" button?
[20:14:01] <alex_joni> that is not the ideal solution to homing..
[20:14:06] <alex_joni> right
[20:14:39] <alex_joni> older robots I service have this homing switches too
[20:14:42] <phil_> your machines dont have home switch ?..
[20:14:55] <alex_joni> but they use one very long contact, for half the travel
[20:15:12] <alex_joni> so when you turn them on they know on which side they are and home in the other direction
[20:15:46] <jepler> phil_: The machine I use (cradek's maxnc) has no limit or home switches, only software limits.
[20:15:52] <alex_joni> jepler: newer machines simply save the position in the servo and go to sleep :)
[20:16:18] <jepler> alex_joni: yeah, the DOS software for maxnc preserved the position between runs
[20:16:23] <jepler> I wouldn't mind if emc did that
[20:16:32] <phil_> oh ok ... my machine is a cnc table 1000x1000mm
[20:16:42] <alex_joni> jepler: they also have resolvers which act like an absolute encoder on one turn, so when you start the machine they can be sure if the machine moved or not
[20:17:11] <alex_joni> jepler: because it's highly unlikely to move the machine (while it's off) exactly one motor turn
[20:17:25] <phil_> good question !.. how the machine know the position if you move when shes off ?
[20:18:15] <alex_joni> phil_: when it starts up, and sees the motor is not in the position it was when it shutdown, it knows. and it will go into an unhomed state, which needs an skilled technician to resolve
[20:18:31] <phil_> ok
[20:18:38] <jepler> phil_: that's quite a bit bigger than the maxnc10. what kinds of things do you want to make on your table?
[20:18:56] <alex_joni> phil_: sounds like a wood router..
[20:19:05] <phil_> so, what must i do for my home switch working ?
[20:19:26] <phil_> i mill some wood and plastic like PVC
[20:19:26] <alex_joni> phil_: add HOME_SEARCH_VEL != 0
[20:20:08] <phil_> where alex ? stepper_mm.ini ?
[20:20:11] <cradek> jepler: I noticed if you home while the home switch is "in", it moves the "other way"
[20:20:34] <cradek> jepler: so it does what you want if you put the switch at one end (near a limit) which is maybe the usual thing to do?
[20:20:40] <phil_> hi chris
[20:20:43] <jepler> cradek: hm, ok
[20:20:49] <cradek> hello phil_
[20:21:23] <cradek> jepler: I'm new to it too, but it seemed to do the right thing
[20:22:05] <alex_joni> phil_: yes, each AXIS_* has that
[20:22:16] <alex_joni> AXIS_0, AXIS_1 & AXIS_2
[20:22:30] <alex_joni> you can have different homing speeds for the axes
[20:23:53] <phil_> done alex
[20:25:34] <alex_joni> phil_: now you can test :)
[20:26:02] <phil_> cool, i will test tomorrow ..
[20:26:33] <alex_joni> if it starts homing in the wrong direction you can use negative speeds
[20:26:35] <phil_> i must do some tests about the speed & acceleration, but it's already better then windows !
[20:26:51] <alex_joni> phil_: that's easy :D
[20:26:56] <cradek> if the motors sound better, you may find that you can run it a lot faster than before
[20:27:07] <cradek> what windows program were you using?
[20:27:08] <phil_> it mustt start to search homing switch just when i run EMC ?
[20:27:41] <alex_joni> phil_: no, to home you need to select the axis you want, and push the home button
[20:28:09] <phil_> i have trying many windows program .. KCAM, MASTER5 ( not so bad, but too complicat ! ), CNC3AXES ( a french freeware ) and many others ..
[20:28:27] <phil_> ok alex ..
[20:28:31] <Bo^Dick> need help. i've modeled this bridge from the L298 datasheet and it performs poorly. what is wrong? http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/sheet.gif http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/bridge.gif http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/trace.gif
[20:28:46] <phil_> do you think that u will design a GUI to easly configur EMC2 ?..
[20:29:55] <alex_joni> phil_: that's not that easy :)
[20:30:12] <alex_joni> emc2 is far too flexible :D
[20:30:40] <phil_> yep... little too flexible for newbie like me ..
[20:31:08] <alex_joni> yeah, but we have a wide range of users..
[20:31:18] <phil_> sure
[20:31:34] <alex_joni> and emc is beeing developed for quite a few years..
[20:34:12] <phil_> what is the parameter for the "manual move speed" ?
[20:34:26] <Bo^Dick> phil_: what driver do you have?
[20:34:43] <alex_joni> phil_: what interface are you running? AXIS?
[20:34:54] <phil_> i have a basic paralel board ( L297 + MOSFET )
[20:35:00] <phil_> yes
[20:35:22] <alex_joni> phil_: change [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY
[20:35:35] <alex_joni> I think that one is used by AXIS for jogging. right cradek ?
[20:35:35] <Bo^Dick> phil_: does it have jumpers where you can set the default forward direction for example?
[20:36:40] <jepler> alex_joni: phil: yes, if you want to increase the jog speed in axis, increase [TRAJ]DEFAULT_VELOCITY
[20:36:42] <phil_> no Bo
[20:36:49] <Bo^Dick> phil_: have you degigned or built it yourself?
[20:37:13] <cradek> alex_joni: yes
[20:37:13] <phil_> please alex, can you put the link of my board, i dont have here
[20:37:35] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: it's a design by some french guy :), looks pretty decent.. looking for the link now
[20:37:44] <phil_> alex_ jepler : what is the unit of DEAFULT_VELOCITY ?
[20:37:53] <alex_joni> http://mac1.ifrance.com/cnc3ax/cnc3axdoc.pdf
[20:37:53] <jepler> phil_: mm/s
[20:37:58] <Bo^Dick> are switching bridges using bjt transistors rather than mosfets doomed to perform crappy?
[20:37:59] <alex_joni> http://mac1.ifrance.com/cnc3ax/cnc3axdoc.pdf
[20:38:22] <alex_joni> http://mac1.ifrance.com/cnc3ax/cnc3axdoc.pdf
[20:38:27] <phil_> i have 0.424 .. it s realy slow ?..
[20:38:31] <phil_> ty alex
[20:38:40] <alex_joni> that means 0.424 mm/sec
[20:39:06] <Bo^Dick> it's written in french. does it have "torque compensation" for half-stepping?
[20:39:49] <phil_> i'm not sure to right understand your question Bo
[20:40:09] <alex_joni> phil_: when you are half stepping you sometimes command one winding, sometimes 2
[20:40:45] <Bo^Dick> phil_: "torque compensation" is a method to make half-stepping somewhat more sinusoid shaped and it gives around 40% more torque than regular half-stepping
[20:40:51] <jepler> Bo^Dick: I don't know that simulator software you're using, but what voltages do you get at the base of Q1 and Q2? If the 7408 are hooked up to +5V then Q1 and Q2 will never turn on.
[20:41:11] <phil_> 0.424mm/sec .. it seem realy slow .. what can i try ? .. with windows i use about 250mm/s
[20:41:18] <phil_> oups error !
[20:41:39] <Bo^Dick> jepler: ok, do i need to feed the bases off all transistor with the full bridge voltage?
[20:43:09] <alex_joni> phil_: 250mm/s seems a bit much for jogging
[20:43:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> goodnight all of you
[20:43:19] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: goodnight
[20:43:31] <alex_joni> g'night
[20:43:47] <phil_> i write error alex !..
[20:43:58] <alex_joni> ok.. didn't knwo what you mean :)
[20:44:06] <alex_joni> 250mm/min might be more like it
[20:44:34] <phil_> delete my last value ! ;)
[20:44:54] <K4ts> hello
[20:45:01] <phil_> hi k4
[20:45:06] <alex_joni> hello K4ts
[20:45:14] <K4ts> hi alex_joni
[20:45:40] <alex_joni> giacus: still there?
[20:45:55] <Bo^Dick> in fact to be honest. since the L297 is soo hard to get here in sweden i've modeled it myself. http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/logic.gif
[20:46:32] <Bo^Dick> is this foolish?
[20:46:49] <phil_> to hard the L297 ?..
[20:47:02] <phil_> lol .. big foolish !..
[20:47:14] <phil_> u can find it all over the world ..
[20:47:33] <phil_> try digikey.com or eBay ..
[20:47:34] <Bo^Dick> yeah, to ship them over the atlantic
[20:47:45] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: phil_ is in france
[20:47:55] <alex_joni> and there should be an ebay.se
[20:48:08] <phil_> in France, u can find it on all electronic house !..
[20:48:11] <Bo^Dick> i've checked the ebay.se, they don't have them
[20:48:31] <phil_> call your local seller ..
[20:48:48] <Bo^Dick> yeah, of course they can be found in france, germany, spain....... remember sweden is a small country
[20:49:12] <alex_joni> Bo^Dick: you can find them in _romania_
[20:49:20] <jepler> Bo^Dick: won't you need a higher voltage than 40V to turn on the NPN transistor? Otherwise, I don't see how you get any base current.
[20:49:22] <phil_> realy ?.. its hard to beleive, but i think you have search it !..
[20:49:53] <phil_> try ebay some weeks ..
[20:50:02] <Bo^Dick> jepler: don't transistors switch around 0.7 volts?
[20:50:40] <cradek> I searched google for L297 sweden, clicked the second link, clicked distributors, europe, sweden, and there are four companies listed
[20:50:42] <skunkworks> I would use pnp's for the upper transisters if you are going that route
[20:51:06] <phil_> in fact, even if i dont find it in France, i certainly buy it on digikey or other web merchand .. you will pay $10 or $20 for the shipping, but better than try to design it yourself !..
[20:51:11] <Bo^Dick> cradek: are "farnell", "future electronics"... listed?
[20:51:27] <Bo^Dick> at "farnell" they are around 15$
[20:51:29] <cradek> why not do the search and look?
[20:51:33] <Bo^Dick> that sucks......
[20:51:50] <cradek> your time must be free if you can model that circuit for less than $15
[20:52:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni swallows a remark
[20:52:01] <Bo^Dick> at for example "future electronics" they only sell a minimum qty of 20pcs and only to companies, that sucks.......
[20:52:15] <phil_> like you want .. if you prefer try to do it .. loose some months to finaly buy parts ..? ;)
[20:52:16] <jepler> Bo^Dick: an NPN transistor switches at around 0.7 volts compared to what?
[20:52:48] <phil_> Futur ar not for particular .. they ar pro ..
[20:53:28] <Bo^Dick> so if you can find a dealer that seels them cheaply in sweden so please let me know
[20:53:32] <phil_> Bo .. a NPN or PNP is drive by current ..
[20:54:03] <Bo^Dick> phil_: don't ttl circuits supply at least 20mA?
[20:54:19] <phil_> not many much ..
[20:54:24] <phil_> wich ttl ?
[20:54:35] <Bo^Dick> the 7808 for example
[20:54:41] <Bo^Dick> maybe i'm wrong
[20:54:44] <phil_> wich suffix ?..
[20:55:01] <phil_> between th .; and not 78 but 74 ...
[20:55:12] <phil_> 74xxx08
[20:55:28] <jepler> phil_: I think Bo^Dick has only simulated this circuit so far .. but it doesn't work
[20:55:58] <phil_> u will win some time to try in real .. not by simulator ..
[20:56:07] <jepler> phil_: so who knows what model is in this software
[20:56:11] <skunkworks> there should be some resisters between the gates and bases
[20:56:11] <phil_> better if you dant realy know how use the simulator
[20:56:21] <Bo^Dick> i thought the npn transistors could be seen as amplifiers and direct a large current commanded from the gates
[20:56:26] <cradek> the circuit you modeled was not meant to be built like that, it's a block diagram
[20:56:28] <phil_> no i dont know wich simulaotir he use
[20:56:45] <phil_> PNP dont have GATE !..
[20:56:48] <Bo^Dick> i'm using an old microsim pspice
[20:56:49] <phil_> they habe BASE
[20:56:57] <skunkworks> base
[20:56:59] <skunkworks> sorry
[20:57:01] <Bo^Dick> i was talking about the TTL gates
[20:57:15] <phil_> you confuse between MOSFET and BIPOLAR
[20:58:09] <phil_> Bo... realy .. try your design in reality .. TTL & bipolar are cheapper ..
[20:58:33] <Bo^Dick> i know. the damned mosfets are expensive
[20:59:01] <phil_> yep and realy more difficult ..
[20:59:02] <jepler> Bo^Dick: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/highside-wontwork.png
[20:59:09] <phil_> more sensitiv devies ..
[20:59:18] <phil_> devices
[21:00:03] <jepler> this won't work, because if Q actually turned on, its emitter would actually be at around 23V, but the base is at 5V, so no base current can flow.
[21:00:31] <jepler> er, around 24V
[21:00:34] <phil_> from your TTL output ( depend of the suffix, u must read the datasheet ) .. u can't drive more than 10/15mA safely
[21:01:18] <skunkworks> jepler: you will get 5v-diode drop across r10
[21:01:29] <phil_> but it's enought to drive little bipolar or darlington ..
[21:02:11] <skunkworks> if the hfe is high enough
[21:02:34] <alex_joni> ok guys.. I'm heading to bed
[21:02:34] <phil_> yep
[21:02:39] <alex_joni> g'night all
[21:02:41] <skunkworks> night
[21:02:43] <phil_> me too
[21:02:46] <alex_joni> phil_: any more questions before I go?
[21:02:49] <jepler> skunkworks: that's true, but you really don't want that (bo already has experience melting transistors)
[21:03:03] <phil_> good night .. will be back this week to test my EMC2 machine ;)
[21:03:10] <cradek> bye alex
[21:03:11] <phil_> no ty, i got to bed too ;)
[21:03:14] <skunkworks> right - it isn't going to work in this situation
[21:03:51] <phil_> have good dreams alex ;)
[21:03:57] <phil_> by room
[21:04:00] <alex_joni> phil_: lol
[21:04:06] <jepler> see you guys later
[21:04:11] <phil_> cu this week end ;)
[21:04:13] <jepler> quite dark over there in europe, I assume
[21:04:16] <cradek> bye phil_
[21:04:19] <jepler> ooh I get to go home from work now
[21:04:34] <phil_> lol jepler
[21:04:34] <alex_joni> jepler: hurry before the offer goes away
[21:04:43] <phil_> by by