#emc | Logs for 2006-03-30

[00:11:02] <Jymmm> lol
[01:10:16] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[01:10:57] <steve_stallings> OK, I'm late to the discussion of lathe threading, but here goes....
[01:11:28] <steve_stallings> I agree that we should work from some document that is accessible.
[01:12:20] <steve_stallings> Manuals for Haas and a few others may be available on line, but some times lack detail or are based on implementations that are not widely accepted.
[01:13:31] <steve_stallings> One alternative is the Peter Smid book "CNC Programming Handbook" ISBN 0-8311-3158-6 which is widely available, including $45 from Amazon.com
[01:14:11] <steve_stallings> It tends toward Fanuc, but it does a great job of explaining what all the possibilities and pramaters do in the real world.
[01:25:34] <cradek> steve_stallings: that sounds like a great resource to use while writing the emc threading spec
[01:37:12] <steve_stallings> I would think so, even if you elect to use some style other than Fanuc.
[01:37:50] <cradek> I'm definitely opposed to any kind of closed standard
[01:45:41] <fenn> cradek: how hard would it be to have multiple "targets" for the interp?
[01:46:01] <fenn> telling people they need to do a fanuc post for milling and a haas post for lathes seems kinda silly
[01:46:27] <cradek> fenn: I don't really know
[01:46:40] <fenn> and since there are no "open" standards, except EMC (which isnt supported) you only have closed standards to choose from
[01:47:02] <fenn> this is why i'm pissed that STEP still isn't finished
[01:47:29] <cradek> well one way to handle that is "I won't buy your cam program unless you provide an emc post"
[01:47:48] <fenn> i dont think we really would make any dent in the marketplace
[01:48:17] <cradek> yeah that's always the problem with voting with your feet/wallet
[01:48:28] <cradek> each individual thinks he's insignificant
[01:48:39] <fenn> there's no open source alternative either
[01:49:04] <fenn> heh right now i'm trying to find a python SVG library to write a cam script
[01:51:41] <fenn> cradek: do you make other stuff with your mill besides circuit boards?
[01:51:55] <cradek> sure, sometimes
[01:52:01] <fenn> how do you go about doing that?
[01:52:14] <cradek> what do you mean?
[01:52:34] <fenn> do you just program custom python scripts for each part?
[01:52:42] <cradek> oh how do I write the gcode
[01:52:46] <fenn> yeah
[01:52:50] <cradek> sometimes I write a program that does it
[01:53:02] <cradek> often I use my autolisp program to generate the toolpaths
[01:53:25] <fenn> is that like autotrace?
[01:53:27] <cradek> if the shape is much more complex than a rectangle I draw it in autocad
[01:53:47] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/autocad
[01:54:21] <fenn> funny how your brain filters certain things out of consciousness
[01:54:28] <fenn> i never noticed that
[01:55:01] <cradek> heh
[01:55:14] <cradek> it's very simple, but with autocad's power, you can do a LOT with it
[01:55:30] <fenn> i've never used autocad
[01:55:54] <cradek> it's like all those cad packages, except good
[01:56:02] <fenn> i've heard lots of trash talk about it
[01:56:09] <cradek> well, it used to be, my version is 10 years old, I don't know what it's like now
[01:56:31] <fenn> heh REALIZE probably doesnt even work with new versions then
[01:56:52] <cradek> actually it does, I recently fixed some things in it
[01:57:01] <fenn> DXF is the best example of a proprietary defacto standard gone bad
[01:57:08] <cradek> yep
[01:57:14] <cradek> well I think DXF was always open
[01:57:19] <fenn> not really
[01:57:20] <cradek> X stands for "interchange"
[01:57:34] <fenn> it wasn't some encrypted binary crap at least
[02:06:11] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:30:00] <Jymmm> encrypted?
[02:31:45] <fenn> there was some file format that was apparently encrypted, according to the person who was reverse engineering it
[02:31:58] <fenn> it was some cad program i think, maybe autocad
[02:32:49] <fenn> http://www.opendesign.com/about/faq.htm#encrypted
[02:41:09] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[02:48:34] <cradek> wooo
[02:48:52] <cradek> my spindle encoder works, and I appear to have good spindle synchronization
[02:49:01] <cradek> I need to set up a tool holder of some kind, and cut some threads
[02:49:30] <fenn> you have lathe tools?
[02:52:46] <cradek> yes, a few
[02:55:06] <cradek> good, my sherline toolholder sort of fits
[02:55:09] <cradek> it's pretty short though...
[04:27:27] <dmessier> allo all..
[04:28:26] <dmessier> Jymmm thx for the host id shite... now its just environment settings to sort out
[04:36:31] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/nc_files/threading.ngc: multiple passes at 29 degrees
[04:37:55] <Jymmm> such as?
[05:37:29] <fenn> * fenn pokes CIA-8
[05:37:46] <Jymmm> * Jymmm PEEKS fenn "You're a chicken"
[05:38:32] <fenn> * fenn clucks quizzically
[05:38:37] <Jymmm> lol
[05:38:42] <Jymmm> how ya doin tonight?
[05:39:03] <fenn> after i ate a pound of reeses peanut butter cups i feel fine
[05:39:21] <fenn> today i swore i would actually program this dumb avr
[05:39:23] <fenn> no beans
[05:39:25] <fenn> * fenn sighs
[05:39:38] <Jymmm> Cool, then you can teach me
[05:40:29] <fenn> hmm you can join ##microcontrollers or #robotics
[05:40:45] <fenn> but ##microcontrollers does have a lot of babble about dumb stuff
[05:41:21] <Jymmm> No, it's much easier to just ask you directly =)
[05:41:57] <fenn> who says i know anyway
[05:42:04] <fenn> i'll be happy to make stuff up for you
[05:43:59] <Jymmm> cool!
[05:44:12] <Jymmm> I have a STK300 dev kit, but it's old
[05:44:28] <Jymmm> and has never been used in all the years I've had it.
[05:45:24] <fenn> i dont believe in dev kits
[05:45:39] <fenn> you're not gonna make a circuit out of it, so why even mess with it in the first place
[05:45:49] <Jymmm> Sheer learning purposes
[05:46:20] <Jymmm> or toss on a LCD and test up before making a pccb, etc
[07:25:31] <TorbaX> oh my God
[07:25:34] <TorbaX> http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/hdspeakers/hdspeakers.htm
[07:26:09] <TorbaX> it's terrible!! three way speakers with hard disk drive
[07:28:09] <Jymmm> the hdd ARE the speakers =)
[07:28:48] <TorbaX> yesss
[07:29:23] <TorbaX> there are many videos of them
[07:29:29] <fenn> too many
[07:51:19] <alex_joni> hello guys
[07:51:24] <alex_joni> fenn: wot's up?
[07:51:38] <Jymmm> Howdy alex_joni
[07:55:45] <anonimasu> morning
[07:56:56] <chinamill> morning
[07:58:56] <anonimasu> what's up?
[07:59:01] <Jymmm> Very nice text editor for WIN.. http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/ supports code folding too
[07:59:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu likes what he saw in the thread..
[08:00:05] <anonimasu> err at the list
[08:00:05] <anonimasu> :)
[08:05:15] <alex_joni> what list?
[08:05:18] <alex_joni> ;)
[08:39:24] <chinamill> I have studied the torch height controller (http://www.campbelldesigns.com/plasma-torch-height-control.php) and need some advise...
[08:39:39] <chinamill> This THC is designed to fit a mach2 system, but I think it would be possible to tweak it to work with emc2, but I'm not sure.
[08:39:55] <chinamill> Maybe we can define whats is to be done to get it to work.
[08:40:06] <chinamill> There is something mentioned about THC in the wiki,
[08:40:06] <chinamill> See point no 8 @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?EmcFeatures
[08:40:19] <chinamill> This THC has a input: torch on ; outputs (to mach2/EMC2 ; 5V) Down; Up; Arc OK; Fault.
[08:40:28] <chinamill> The trick would be to adapt emc to respond to the inputs it will get to actually move the z axis up/down.
[08:40:39] <chinamill> This would be a really nice solution because then it wouldnt matter if you have steppers or servos.
[08:41:04] <alex_joni> chinamill: that's not hard to do
[08:41:47] <chinamill> Have you done something similar before?
[08:41:54] <alex_joni> nope ;)
[08:42:37] <chinamill> Are you familiar with the "arbitrary variable synchronization" in EMC
[08:43:24] <alex_joni> chinamill: that page is a wishlist
[08:43:32] <chinamill> :)
[08:43:32] <alex_joni> nothing in there exists in emc
[08:43:45] <chinamill> true!
[08:44:11] <chinamill> Do you have any idea how it could be done?
[08:44:39] <chinamill> If nothong works I can do a hardware based hack...
[08:44:56] <alex_joni> I have an idea, actually more than one
[08:45:19] <alex_joni> but the easiest would be this:
[08:45:53] <alex_joni> have a HAL module (very simple) with 2 inputs (Up, Down), output (a value) (output gets increased or decreased by the up/down
[08:46:27] <alex_joni> that output would need to get added (using a HAL adder) to the axis_Z position command, and feed_back (not to have following errors)
[08:46:30] <alex_joni> and that's it
[08:47:10] <chinamill> How to connect the hal inputs up;down to the actual moving of the Z?
[08:47:31] <alex_joni> like I said: have a HAL module (very simple) with 2 inputs (Up, Down),
[08:47:31] <alex_joni> output (a value) (output gets increased or decreased by the
[08:47:32] <alex_joni> up/down
[08:47:49] <alex_joni> this HAL module actually has something like a counter inside
[08:47:59] <alex_joni> when IN is active it counts up
[08:48:10] <alex_joni> err... I mean when UP is active
[08:48:17] <alex_joni> when DOWN is active it counts down
[08:48:40] <alex_joni> so it's a small module which will hold an offset that will be added to the Z axis
[08:49:09] <chinamill> ok... I can not say I'm compleatly with you, but do you think I can rely somewhat for help here if I spend the 400 dollars to buy?
[08:49:50] <alex_joni> chinamill: you can
[08:50:11] <chinamill> Would it be possible to control the speed and accel of the z-axis movements?
[08:51:04] <alex_joni> this is at EMC higher level, this goes to PID (if you use servos) or to the stepgen (which has a velocity/accel limit)
[08:51:22] <alex_joni> so I think speed/accel can be controlled
[08:51:52] <alex_joni> there would be another pin that starts/stops the command offset
[08:52:08] <chinamill> I think the first step would be start basic..
[08:52:09] <alex_joni> you don't want to control height with the THC when the torch is somewhere in air
[08:52:20] <alex_joni> chinamill: what I said is very basic
[08:52:22] <chinamill> yep
[08:52:30] <alex_joni> probably 10-15 minutes to complete it
[08:53:16] <chinamill> I'll pray to the cumputing gods for that ;)
[08:57:39] <chinamill> Would it be possible to map a up or down signal to a specific delta value for z like 0.1mm?
[09:01:17] <alex_joni> sure
[09:01:24] <alex_joni> I would make a parameter for that
[09:01:33] <alex_joni> so you can set it based on what you need
[09:01:42] <alex_joni> if it's too slow, make it bigger
[09:03:49] <chinamill> great!
[09:04:17] <alex_joni> but it's not discrete
[09:04:27] <alex_joni> I think it doesn't send impulses
[09:04:32] <alex_joni> it sets an output
[09:04:41] <alex_joni> as long as the height is too little, it sets UP
[09:04:48] <chinamill> yup...
[09:04:55] <alex_joni> and then EMC will move up, until the UP pin isn't on anymore
[09:05:02] <chinamill> yep
[09:05:17] <alex_joni> so I think 0.01mm or so would be better
[09:05:25] <alex_joni> because you add it every servo cycle
[09:05:43] <chinamill> ok...
[09:41:38] <anonimasu> chinamill: want info on thoose ultrasonic thingies?
[09:41:41] <anonimasu> I've got the catalog here
[09:43:01] <anonimasu> got capacitive sensors there too
[09:44:04] <alex_joni> hi anders
[09:44:19] <alex_joni> do you like the new webpage?
[09:44:59] <anonimasu> yeah it's really nice
[09:46:40] <anonimasu> how's stuff with you?
[09:46:59] <alex_joni> pretty ok
[09:47:02] <chinamill> anonimasu: Thanks, but I'll think I start with the arc voltage type.
[09:47:07] <alex_joni> got better, was sick the other day
[09:47:36] <anonimasu> buying that thing?
[09:48:06] <anonimasu> yeah saw your message after you left
[09:48:15] <chinamill> I think so...
[09:48:36] <anonimasu> ok, that's a good idea
[09:48:41] <anonimasu> unless you are a wiz at electronics
[09:51:39] <chinamill> maybe not a wiz but I gt around... (I studied the components they use for arc V THC) It's tempting to use a voltage divider with HF filter and then do A/D convertion with a P18F452 I have laying around.
[09:52:13] <chinamill> And let the pic feed the signal to emc2
[09:53:46] <chinamill> If someone more was intrested in doing this.. it would be nice to share the testing... These things always take alot more time then you think....
[09:54:19] <alex_joni> chinamill: yup, that's the biggest problem
[09:57:06] <anonimasu> * anonimasu agrees
[09:58:11] <chinamill> So then 400 dollars would maybe not be so bad for a (already working) THC...
[10:02:43] <anonimasu> always factor in tiem
[10:02:45] <anonimasu> time
[10:03:20] <anonimasu> unless you are unemployed and well, want to learn badly
[10:03:44] <chinamill> Unemployed, yes :(
[10:05:59] <chinamill> But it would be really elegant to be able to set the reference value with the serial interface to the P18F452, and to leave feedback to the PC with the serial interface about the actual voltage value. No dial or external displays... All stuff goes to the PC...
[10:13:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:13:36] <chinamill> I'm unemployed but I have arranged a EU VAT number so if anyone needs help with a small project I can help out and then send a invoice that is valid for bookkeeping.
[10:13:37] <anonimasu> that'd be neat
[10:18:34] <anonimasu> *aywns*
[10:33:13] <chinamill> In camplells package thaey have a current sensor (or current transformer). I think this one is not really needed since the tip voltage will eather raise or go to zero if something is wrong.
[12:00:27] <Bo-Dick> need help from you stepper gurus.
[12:01:12] <Bo-Dick> i've found out that a voltage regulator alone can be configured into a current limiter. now i wonder if it's responsive enough to be useful for a stepper driver.
[12:14:36] <chinamill> If I were you I would be looking for a dedicated driver. Maybe some thing like http://www.geckodrive.com/
[12:16:29] <Bo-Dick> that would probably have been the best option yes. since i've already started this and spent 80$ so far i'm gonna finish it even though the end result is somewhat crappy.
[12:17:39] <alex_joni> Bo-Dick: in the end they all realize that buying expensive hardware is cheaper then building your own
[12:24:10] <Bo-Dick> well you don't have to convince me that the gecko design is superior to any aother home-made design.
[12:24:19] <Bo-Dick> i'm now so perfectly aware of that
[12:25:15] <alex_joni> if you want home-made use a L297-298 schematic
[12:25:26] <alex_joni> that should be good and simple (cheap) enough
[12:25:33] <Bo-Dick> yeah, if i only would have known that from the start.
[12:25:58] <alex_joni> that's why the 'net' is out there ;)
[12:26:00] <Bo-Dick> if i somehow would get the schematic of a geckodrive i would be afraid to solder my own
[12:26:10] <alex_joni> to gather that kind of information
[12:26:28] <Bo-Dick> but i guess it implements details not commonly known by stepper enthusiasts?
[12:27:46] <Bo-Dick> so far i've spent 80$ and i guess the total budget will fall under 100$ in the end. a three axis gecko would cost around 350$ without shipping
[12:29:08] <Bo-Dick> i'm aiming at a four axis system
[12:30:46] <alex_joni> yeah, but I think you can get a xylotex for less
[12:31:04] <alex_joni> http://www.xylotex.com/4axBoard.htm
[12:31:09] <alex_joni> 175$ + shipping
[12:32:02] <alex_joni> http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm (including motors)
[12:32:44] <Bo-Dick> how can geckodrive compete with that ??
[12:34:04] <Bo-Dick> i mean i four axis geckodrive system with motors would be way more expensive
[12:35:42] <Bo-Dick> are they good the xylotex?
[12:36:02] <Bo-Dick> there's got to be a catch when they are so much more cheap
[12:53:40] <alex_joni> they geckos are better, but xylotex are good enough
[12:55:09] <Bo-Dick> the term "good enough" sound good enough for me. who needs better than "good enough"?
[13:11:36] <alex_joni> they are lots better than homebuilt
[13:27:20] <jepler> you think xylotex is better than homebuilt l298? Why?
[13:27:38] <alex_joni> jepler: it can do microstepping, afaik
[13:28:31] <alex_joni> FULL, HALF, QUARTER, & EIGHTH step/Full Step
[13:29:27] <jepler> I guess I've never used a "micro"stepping system, but half stepping seems good enough: it gives you all the positioning you need on a mill
[13:29:33] <jepler> re: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/thread.jpg yay
[13:30:52] <jepler> alex_joni: the new website broke the rs274ngc handbook links I used in the quick reference, e.g., http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1003436
[13:31:07] <jepler> alex_joni: is there a copy of this document on linuxcnc.org anymore, or should I direct the links back to the NIST site?
[13:34:05] <alex_joni> I think we should move that to linuxcnc.org
[13:34:23] <alex_joni> jepler: yay, I've seen that
[13:35:45] <jepler> OK; if you can move it there while preserving the URLs, that's great. If you have to modify the URLs, please let me know so that I can update the quick reference
[13:45:50] <alex_joni> no, I think I can keep it not modified
[13:45:58] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[13:46:16] <SWPadnos> hi alex
[13:46:22] <alex_joni> hello
[13:46:35] <SWPadnos> if you just copy the handbook over, and make it an "external" link, it should work
[13:46:41] <alex_joni> yup
[13:46:42] <SWPadnos> but it'll be ugly (relatively ;) )
[13:47:41] <SWPadnos> out of curiosity, have you done a spider-style download of the old linuxcnc.org site?
[13:54:36] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yes
[13:54:41] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:54:50] <rayh> Hi guys.
[13:54:57] <SWPadnos> hi Ray
[13:55:34] <rayh> Just got a request from a guy in Singapore for a bit of help with auto tuning of axes.
[13:56:08] <SWPadnos> is he paying travel expenses? ;)
[13:56:14] <rayh> His request is 'I will like to ask you whether is there any function which can be used to record data in the shared memory from the real time to a text file."
[13:56:33] <SWPadnos> HAL logging - hmmm
[13:56:36] <alex_joni> rayh: Koh Chin Hua ?
[13:56:43] <rayh> He's a poor student at the university but they should pay our way.
[13:56:55] <rayh> Yis
[13:57:06] <alex_joni> rayh: me too ;) (same request)
[13:57:28] <rayh> There was a save setup from halscope but I know nothing about it.
[13:58:17] <rayh> Might have just been an image from the gxx widget?
[13:58:21] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks!
[13:58:29] <rayh> Hi Jymmm
[13:59:49] <Jymmm> rayh: So, have you ever been to Singapore before?
[13:59:54] <SWPadnos> hi Jymmm
[14:00:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos howdy!
[14:00:21] <SWPadnos> too early for howdy
[14:00:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ug Ug Ug
[14:00:38] <SWPadnos> much better
[14:01:59] <Jymmm> Oh, if you use windows, this is a nice text editor... http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
[14:02:12] <Jymmm> Mmmmm code folding
[14:02:46] <SWPadnos> Programmer's Notepad is good as well
[14:02:59] <Jymmm> this one is free
[14:03:08] <Jymmm> GPL and source provided
[14:03:36] <SWPadnos> same deal with PN, I think
[14:04:11] <SWPadnos> PN comes with the WinAVR package - the gcc for AVR chips
[14:04:25] <Jymmm> ah, cool
[14:04:53] <rayh> No never anywhere in the "east"
[14:05:18] <alex_joni> rayh: I think you can go west to singapore :)
[14:05:29] <SWPadnos> might even be faster ;)
[14:06:18] <SWPadnos> here's a funny thing - it's less expensive to buy a round-the-world first class ticket, than it is to buy a round-trip from here to Europe (on United)
[14:06:20] <rayh> I plan a trip to Bejing later this year.
[14:06:46] <Jymmm> rayh JUST Bejing?
[14:07:06] <rayh> A few other places along the way.
[14:07:26] <Jymmm> ah, cool.
[14:07:46] <rayh> phone
[14:07:57] <alex_joni> phone is a nice place to visit
[14:08:08] <SWPadnos> I've heard that
[14:11:00] <Jymmm> What's the avg (per sqaure inch) cost of a SS or DS PCB ?
[14:11:31] <SWPadnos> $0.35-$0.50, plus setup
[14:11:39] <SWPadnos> less in quantity
[14:11:50] <Jymmm> setup being under $100 ?
[14:12:00] <SWPadnos> sure. how many boards?
[14:12:44] <alex_joni> 3.12 boards
[14:12:46] <alex_joni> :D
[14:12:48] <Jymmm> maybe 10 to test, then 1000 after that at a time
[14:13:05] <SWPadnos> barebones boards are $0.45/sq.in + $42 setup. 2 sides, plated through holes, no mask, no legend
[14:13:53] <SWPadnos> lemme check another source
[14:14:26] <Jymmm> k
[14:14:51] <Jymmm> a white mask would be nice
[14:15:03] <SWPadnos> I assume these are through hole boards
[14:15:13] <Jymmm> yeah
[14:15:21] <SWPadnos> do you want mask and legend on the prototypes?
[14:15:28] <Jymmm> nah
[14:16:22] <SWPadnos> ok, the other place I use is $40 + $0.60/sq.in
[14:16:34] <SWPadnos> what size are the boards?
[14:17:03] <rayh> back
[14:20:16] <cradek> morning
[14:20:28] <alex_joni> morning chris
[14:20:31] <alex_joni> nice photo ;)
[14:20:43] <rayh> Sh...oot. More errors in tkemc.
[14:20:57] <cradek> hi alex, thanks
[14:20:59] <alex_joni> rayh: what kind?
[14:21:08] <cradek> it's the crappiest thread ever cut, but I was happy anyway
[14:21:13] <rayh> second time opening the gcode editor.
[14:21:39] <rayh> Hey cradek. How do you get the nut over one end of that?
[14:21:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: individually? Or as a whole board then snapped apart?
[14:21:55] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, individually
[14:22:19] <cradek> rayh: you don't, it has both an entry and exit cut
[14:22:46] <SWPadnos> think of it as a worm drive ;)
[14:23:00] <SWPadnos> btw - great photo
[14:23:09] <alex_joni> jepler: can you try the handbook now?
[14:23:19] <rayh> Oh worms use a totally different profile.
[14:23:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: apx .300" by 8" or 12"
[14:23:43] <rayh> Nice job on the axis coordination, chris.
[14:24:54] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, most of the cheapo proto services have a minimum X and Y dimension of 1.0 - 1.25 inches
[14:25:16] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, so you might have to get a "standard" board
[14:25:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah, is it possible to get 1" wide, but have it cut so I can snap apart?
[14:26:21] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, not generally with the cheapo proto services - they frown on that
[14:26:33] <Jymmm> heh
[14:26:47] <SWPadnos> and they look for it
[14:27:06] <SWPadnos> making LED carrier boards?
[14:27:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'd rather have a 12" sq board that I can snap apart. Yep, exactly
[14:27:46] <SWPadnos> not really - then you're also paying for the routed area
[14:28:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I was gonna design a PCB that I can use thru hole and surface mount on the safe board.
[14:28:08] <SWPadnos> which in this case would e a significant fraction of the board area
[14:28:18] <SWPadnos> s/e/be/
[14:28:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Well, shit. I can always route it out myself I guess.
[14:29:17] <SWPadnos> heh - you can engrave the proto boards too
[14:29:29] <SWPadnos> just ask cradek ;)
[14:29:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos but I can't do the thru hole, nor the mask/legend.
[14:29:54] <SWPadnos> you doon't get that with cheapo services anyway
[14:30:23] <SWPadnos> the minimum for a pklated / mask / legend board is in the $300 range (for the lot)
[14:30:26] <SWPadnos> plates
[14:30:28] <SWPadnos> plated
[14:30:30] <SWPadnos> there
[14:30:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos about what qty for $300 ?
[14:30:55] <SWPadnos> one sec - I've got to log in for that
[14:31:00] <Jymmm> k
[14:31:15] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[14:31:24] <SWPadnos> how many holes?
[14:31:51] <Jymmm> 6 per inch
[14:32:06] <Jymmm> err 8 per inch
[14:32:16] <SWPadnos> 8 holes, or 8 LEDs?
[14:32:21] <Jymmm> 8 holes
[14:32:36] <Jymmm> 8 leds per inch - ouch
[14:32:54] <SWPadnos> 3mm
[14:33:02] <Jymmm> 5mm or 10 mm
[14:33:12] <SWPadnos> oriuented so the flats are against each other
[14:33:14] <SWPadnos> gah
[14:33:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Hey, you're the one that found the 110000 mcd ones @ 10mm =)
[14:33:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:33:56] <SWPadnos> 130000
[14:34:02] <Jymmm> where?
[14:34:12] <SWPadnos> same guy, I think
[14:34:19] <SWPadnos> depends on which listing you look at ;)
[14:34:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, @ $2/ea
[14:35:02] <SWPadnos> this guy sells in 5000 qty as well
[14:35:06] <steve_stallings> Ray - last night I got around to reading back to the lathe threading discussion and recommended the Peter Smid book as a possible "open" specification reference.
[14:35:17] <steve_stallings> It is available from Amazon for less than $50
[14:35:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm still waiting for the 40K and 80K ones to arrive
[14:36:14] <steve_stallings> ISBN 0-8311-3158-6
[14:36:33] <steve_stallings> It is to CNC coding what the Machinery's Handbook is to manual machining
[14:37:14] <steve_stallings> Tends toward Fanuc style, but is well explained with examples of paramaters and real world effects
[14:37:35] <alex_joni> bbl
[14:37:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: $0.36/ea USD incl S&H http://search.ebay.com/7603923166
[14:45:41] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, well, I'm having a hard time getting a real quote. There's apparently a minimum wodth for standard production as well, so I need to quote it as an array, for which there's no description of the parameters
[14:48:06] <skunkworks> nice work cradek
[14:49:41] <cradek> thanks
[14:50:00] <cradek> maybe tonight I'll get some bigger rod and cut something nicer
[14:50:00] <skunkworks> was there any following errors? (I take it your spindle was changing speed pretty bad)
[14:50:23] <cradek> only when I turned it up too far for the Z axis to keep up
[14:50:51] <cradek> I am pretty sure the spindle stopped sometimes (belt slipped) but it still tracked fine
[14:51:11] <skunkworks> cool. the thin and thick top of the treads? Just not centered?
[14:51:39] <cradek> right, not centered
[14:51:48] <skunkworks> video? :)
[14:52:01] <rayh> video at five!
[14:52:05] <cradek> not sure if my camera can do that, but it would be cool
[14:52:18] <cradek> I'll try to get something better going tonight.
[14:52:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe someone should think about bringing a (reasonable quality) video camera to Fest/Workshop
[14:53:02] <jepler> the camera I'll be bringing is still photos only
[14:53:26] <SWPadnos> I'll probably bring a still camera as well (which can also do low-res video)
[14:53:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm - it does 640x480 - not bad
[14:54:11] <SWPadnos> now I need a 30G xd card ;)
[14:55:06] <cradek> yeah my card is 64M... can't get much video on that even if the camera does it
[14:55:19] <rayh> my old gateway and ubuntu has a really bad time with 3+ megapixel images.
[14:55:30] <rayh> takes near forever to get from one to the next.
[14:55:50] <SWPadnos> I've got a 512M card, but it's not enough for much video
[14:56:01] <cradek> rayh: maybe there's a better image viewer you could try
[14:56:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos np, thanks.
[14:56:22] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has a digital camcorder, but aint goin to fest.
[14:56:35] <Jymmm> 700x zoom!
[14:56:46] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I think I was seeing $3-$5 each, in 250-1000 quantity
[14:57:00] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the numbers ;)
[14:57:38] <rayh> Right I was thinking that. Also the new gnome ought to handle them better.
[14:57:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, it might be cheaper to have them make the full boards, then just cut them myself.
[14:57:56] <rayh> I should just get a bigger memory stick for it.
[14:58:05] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that was some kind of array price, but I'm not sure if I defined it correctly
[14:58:55] <SWPadnos> rayh, this camera is a 12MP, and my ubuntu machine seems to like it
[14:59:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, if it's cheaper for me to cut up, may not be a bad thing.
[14:59:43] <SWPadnos> it's easier to populate as an array, but hard to cut once populated ...
[15:01:09] <rayh> I don't have any trouble with large files on the faster boxes.
[15:01:27] <cradek> rayh: maybe you don't have enough ram and are swapping.
[15:01:31] <SWPadnos> I guess a dual opteron would wualify as a fast box ;)
[15:01:34] <SWPadnos> qualify, too
[15:01:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, I wonder how clean of a cut I can get using rotobits? $1/ea and un/downcut are available too.
[15:01:49] <Jymmm> s/un/up/
[15:02:14] <rayh> Jymmm, Hack Saw?
[15:02:21] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, they'll probably work well for a while, but the boards are glass epoxy
[15:02:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos at $1/ea I could replace them cheaply
[15:03:01] <Bo-Dick_> what are the disadvantages of using a voltage regulator in a current limiting configuration for a stepper driver?
[15:03:16] <Jymmm> rayh this would be like 20 piece per board.
[15:03:44] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick BEMF
[15:04:07] <Jymmm> if you mean the PS that is.
[15:04:18] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I suppose I could have just quoted it as a single board with a lot of holes and 120 route points
[15:04:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos did they have a max dimensions?
[15:05:01] <SWPadnos> 12x16 is pretty standard for a maximum
[15:05:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos that would be fine, half of 16" is 8"
[15:05:43] <SWPadnos> wow. and half of 8 is 4
[15:05:58] <Jymmm> I meant for me cutting them
[15:05:58] <skunkworks> I have a minidv camera that does both video to a memory card or you can transfer full video though firewire. really quite neat and inexpensive. (plus it had 20 optical zoom and 900 digital) it was around $400
[15:06:01] <alex_joni> so you're saying that a quarter of 16 is 4 ?
[15:06:10] <SWPadnos> I never said that
[15:06:23] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: but I still think so
[15:06:27] <alex_joni> I need to prove that
[15:06:27] <SWPadnos> so you would want a 2x24 array, allowing for some cutter width
[15:07:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, I wanted the snap aprt are various points (every 4") so I can have whatever length I needed, up to 16" long.
[15:07:18] <jepler> Bo-Dick_: If you mean a 78xx positive voltage regulator, one big problem is that it's linear (lots of heat dissipation)
[15:10:26] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, in quantity 50, 2-week turn time, they're $82.98/panel
[15:10:28] <Bo-Dick_> well if that's the only disadvantage i can deal with it
[15:10:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos qty per full board?
[15:11:05] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, yes, 2x24 at 12x0.5" each
[15:11:11] <jepler> Bo-Dick_: It's only the first one that comes to mind .. there may be others
[15:11:16] <SWPadnos> oops, 2x24 at 8x0.5" each
[15:11:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos so 48 8" long pieces?
[15:11:38] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, yes
[15:11:46] <SWPadnos> scored, ready to break apart
[15:12:14] <SWPadnos> in 10 qty, they're closer to $150/panel
[15:12:54] <Jymmm> $1.73/ea in qty of 50 panels
[15:13:06] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:13:32] <Jymmm> that's not too shabby I guess
[15:13:39] <SWPadnos> white soldermask both sides, black or yellow legend on one side
[15:14:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos do they offer a white mask?
[15:14:20] <SWPadnos> err - white soldermask both sides
[15:14:39] <SWPadnos> but you don't want a white legend on that ;)
[15:14:53] <Jymmm> white mask/black legend
[15:15:01] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:15:05] <Jymmm> white mask for the reflectiveness
[15:15:21] <SWPadnos> it's a little more expensive to get a white mask, but these prices include that
[15:15:53] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[15:16:06] <SWPadnos> 2 week lead is $130.42/10, $100.77/20, and $82.98/50
[15:16:19] <SWPadnos> take off about 25% for 4-wek lead time
[15:16:23] <SWPadnos> week
[15:16:57] <SWPadnos> $60.32 for 48 boards is a good deal
[15:17:00] <Jymmm> $82.98 per panel @ 50 panels == $4149
[15:17:12] <SWPadnos> and 2400 of them ;)
[15:18:16] <SWPadnos> if you're not in a hurry, then the $60.32/board is much better, at $3016
[15:19:15] <SWPadnos> I'd want to look into the spacing for V-scoring though - it may be possible to cram a few more on a panel (or maybe less, if they need more than 0.2")
[15:19:20] <Jymmm> Hmmm, maybe I need to rethink the .300"
[15:19:51] <SWPadnos> .3 is big for an LED, but much thinner will be very hard to cut away without breaking it
[15:21:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I just need to be able to have mounting holes - maybe one per inch that'll accept a wood screw or 10/32 - maybe .200" and just score it before snapping apart.
[15:21:45] <SWPadnos> you'll need to space the LEDs further apart or the screw won't go in
[15:21:47] <jepler> Speaking of linear regulators, what's the purpose of the "Tracking Preregulator" shown on page 12? http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM138.pdf
[15:23:33] <jepler> does it spread the voltage drop and thus the power dissipation across both LM338s?
[15:23:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 1" was a guestimate, maybe .750" increments and one led per .750"
[15:24:18] <SWPadnos> ok, I thought it was 4 LEDs per inch, because you said 8 holes
[15:24:54] <SWPadnos> jepler, damned good question
[15:25:04] <SWPadnos> it may be for heat spreading
[15:26:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Ah, one pair for a resistor (if needed), 2 pair for power/daisy chain, last pair for LED, and I guess two additional mouting holes
[15:26:28] <Jymmm> or dbl stick tape =)
[15:26:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:26:41] <SWPadnos> they'll get warm, tape isn't a good idea
[15:26:45] <Jymmm> screw it, hot glue gun
[15:26:51] <SWPadnos> same ptoblem
[15:26:55] <SWPadnos> problem, too
[15:27:05] <Jymmm> I have some high temp glue stick here
[15:27:16] <Jymmm> not your avg wal mart stuff
[15:27:27] <Jymmm> meant for sealing boxes
[15:27:42] <SWPadnos> are you thinking you want a bunch of 1" baords, or that you actually want an 8" single piece?
[15:28:11] <SWPadnos> you get rid of almost all the power chaining holes if you actually use the PCB as a printed *circuit* board
[15:28:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I'm thinking minimum size being 4". But can have up to 16" long pieces.
[15:28:47] <jepler> Is the idea something like this? http://www.superbrightleds.com/light_bars.htm
[15:29:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:29:20] <Jymmm> jepler: Mostly yeah.
[15:30:14] <Jymmm> but not at $19/each
[15:31:14] <Jymmm> jepler and I'm talking 40000 mcd per LED
[15:31:54] <SWPadnos> if you do a cost analysis (as a product), you may end up selling them at close to $19
[15:32:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos might even be more due to the sheer brightness
[15:33:02] <SWPadnos> for 1 foot, you're looking at ~$2 for the PCB (in large quantity), $3.50 for hte LEDs, $1 for other parts (resistors, diodes, etc), adn you still have labor
[15:33:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: If it's thru hole, could sell it as a kit for $19
[15:33:37] <SWPadnos> maybe more for the resistors and stuff, since they may need to be big ones (1/2 wat tor so)
[15:33:45] <SWPadnos> true
[15:34:01] <SWPadnos> sell it with a drive power connector, and you'll be golden ;)
[15:34:21] <Jymmm> no doubt
[15:35:32] <SWPadnos> I can bring you one or two of the 36-LED boards I have, if you like (unpopulated, of course)
[15:35:47] <SWPadnos> they're for 5mm LEDs though
[15:35:52] <Jymmm> I could never figure out what those "jumpers" were in that pic jepler gave. are they good ol' standart headers?
[15:36:08] <SWPadnos> looks that way, btu I'm not sure
[15:36:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos sure why not...
[15:37:00] <SWPadnos> they're just 6 strings of 6 LEDs each, with places to mount resistors
[15:37:42] <Jymmm> See, I wanted to do something like this --> O------/\/\/\---|<-----O--||--O
[15:37:47] <SWPadnos> if you don't think you'll use it, I'd rather hold on to them - they come in handy for special effects
[15:38:04] <Jymmm> where the || is where the board could be snapped, but is electrically connected.
[15:38:20] <SWPadnos> right
[15:38:29] <cradek> FR4 doesn't snap very well, it splinters
[15:38:45] <SWPadnos> it's better if it's V-scored
[15:42:27] <Jymmm> I can do v-scoring
[15:42:45] <SWPadnos> the PCB houses do that
[15:42:54] <Jymmm> I ALSO wanted to leave pads on the PCV in case I wanted todo surface mount ones instead
[15:42:57] <SWPadnos> though it may be more precise if you do it
[15:43:09] <Jymmm> or mix and match
[15:43:30] <SWPadnos> that's not a problem, as long as the baord is wide enough
[15:43:54] <SWPadnos> the problem you'll have is efficiency
[15:43:59] <Jymmm> ?
[15:44:06] <Jymmm> labor wise?
[15:44:13] <SWPadnos> no - electrically
[15:44:22] <anonimasu> hm, optimal effiency would be to PWM them..
[15:44:29] <SWPadnos> these things will rin on 12V
[15:44:31] <SWPadnos> run
[15:45:05] <SWPadnos> so if you have a 1" board, that's got to take 12V in, which means you have one LED, plus a resistor
[15:45:23] <Jymmm> not necessarily 12V. What I was thinking is having three traces so I can mix/match series/parallel
[15:45:28] <SWPadnos> so you're drawing 20-30 mA, and using 240-360 mW for that one LED
[15:45:49] <SWPadnos> you probably don't want to do that - just change resistor values for different voltages
[15:45:59] <SWPadnos> so in a PC case, use the 5V rail
[15:46:23] <SWPadnos> the ideal is to use 2-3 LEDs in series, plus a small resistor (on a 12V line)
[15:46:35] <SWPadnos> there are several advantages to that:
[15:46:36] <Jymmm> 3.4V @ 4 = 13.6V
[15:47:06] <SWPadnos> use 3, at 10.2V, plus a ~100-ohm resistor
[15:47:24] <SWPadnos> (for 20 mA)
[15:47:50] <SWPadnos> that way, the resistor is using ~40 mW, and the rest goes into the LEDs
[15:48:19] <SWPadnos> it also allows you to chain more baords, because you don't need as high current from the supply
[15:48:30] <Jymmm> 10.2 aint gonna happen
[15:48:45] <SWPadnos> ?
[15:48:46] <Jymmm> 5, 9 12 13.8 24 ok
[15:49:18] <SWPadnos> no - the 3 LEDs in series need 10.2V, the other 1.8 is dropped across the current limiting resistor
[15:49:25] <SWPadnos> for a total of 12
[15:49:27] <Jymmm> oh
[15:50:49] <Jymmm> I just wish those LED's would hurry up and get here already!
[15:51:02] <SWPadnos> did you order from Hong kong?
[15:51:07] <Jymmm> Yeah
[15:51:29] <SWPadnos> they'll be about 5 business days or so, unless something goes wrong
[15:52:30] <Jymmm> Rcvd ack of payment on 23rd, today is the 30th.
[15:53:04] <SWPadnos> then it should be soon
[15:53:17] <SWPadnos> today would be 5-6 business days, after all
[15:53:42] <Jymmm> Just anxious is all
[15:55:33] <Jymmm> "I want it NOW NOW NOW damnit" Bart Simpson
[15:55:58] <SWPadnos> heh - maybe you can compete with these:
[15:56:02] <SWPadnos> http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1380&link_str=285&partno=NL-24-8-1
[15:56:34] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, what about flex pcb - on a roll?
[15:56:52] <SWPadnos> that would be kinda cool - jus tcut to length ;)
[15:57:10] <Jymmm> and to fit any counture too
[15:57:21] <Jymmm> (sp)
[15:57:25] <SWPadnos> but you really want to have "rigid flex" - the areas where the components are would want to be backed by rigid PCB
[15:57:29] <SWPadnos> contour
[15:58:04] <SWPadnos> oh, and flex PCB is about 3x (or more) the cost of standard
[15:58:14] <Jymmm> oh hell.
[15:58:18] <anonimasu> ?
[15:58:28] <Jymmm> screw it..... wire wrap the bastards!
[15:58:37] <anonimasu> that's suck
[15:58:51] <SWPadnos> just drop all the components in a solder pot, and see what comes out
[15:58:56] <Jymmm> lol
[15:59:16] <Jymmm> buss wire the damn thing
[16:02:34] <Jymmm> I bet if I made a fixture, that I actually could solder end-to-end w/o PCB, or find some kid with a soldering iron and no life todo it for me.
[16:06:22] <anonimasu> heh
[16:09:54] <Jymmm> just make a fixture, and pay him/her piece work.
[16:10:22] <Jymmm> is mylar film conductive?
[16:32:14] <Jymmm> anonimasu flex pcb. you've never heard of it?
[16:32:36] <anonimasu> I've seen it
[16:32:45] <anonimasu> thoose rollable keyboards
[16:32:56] <Jymmm> anonimasu ok, just was wondering what the '?' was about.
[16:33:02] <anonimasu> plastic with thin metal inside..
[16:33:06] <Jymmm> anonimasu also in cellphones
[16:33:08] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, mylar isn't conductive, but you have to be careful when soldering to it
[16:33:11] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:33:15] <SWPadnos> err - near it ;)
[16:33:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos HELP ME I"M MELTING
[16:33:33] <SWPadnos> it's very easy to delaminate the traces from the substrate
[16:33:47] <SWPadnos> damn, I guess I'll have to get a taxi ;)
[16:33:54] <Jymmm> ok, scratch the mylar ideas =)
[16:34:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos what, you never heard of injection molding?
[16:34:24] <SWPadnos> what, me?
[16:34:28] <SWPadnos> of course I have, silly
[16:34:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos then what do you need a taxi for?
[16:35:04] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should have asked what you were melting ;)
[16:35:33] <Jymmm> Me! I stepped out into the rain.
[16:36:01] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10mm-Ultra-Bright-10-pcs-White-Led-130-000-MCD_W0QQitemZ7604111567QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:36:13] <Jymmm> $7 for 10 of them
[16:38:15] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-5000-XtraBright-10mm-110-cd-Free-Ship_W0QQitemZ7598154279QQcategoryZ66952QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:38:23] <SWPadnos> $864 for 5000 of them ;)
[16:38:29] <SWPadnos> though they're only 110 cd each
[16:39:29] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-50-XtraBright-10mm-130000mcd-NR-F-R_W0QQitemZ7604700607QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:39:44] <Jymmm> 135K mcd http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-50-XtraBright-10mm-135000mcd-NR-F-R_W0QQitemZ7604432033QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:39:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:40:19] <SWPadnos> the thing to look at is the radiation angle though
[16:40:43] <SWPadnos> brughtness isn't the same as "illuminance"
[16:40:55] <SWPadnos> brightness, either
[16:41:36] <Jymmm> yeah, thus the sm qty, not 5000!
[16:41:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:42:04] <SWPadnos> anyway - gotta go. time to do wome paying work
[16:42:06] <SWPadnos> some
[16:42:12] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[16:42:15] <Jymmm> hasta
[17:51:49] <rayh> Hi les_w. I got another guy going on emc2 and servos with an m5i20 last night.
[17:52:19] <les_w> really
[17:52:55] <les_w> 3 axis?
[17:54:36] <anonimasu> :)
[17:55:09] <les_w> hi anon
[17:55:12] <anonimasu> hi
[17:55:34] <anonimasu> what's up?
[17:55:45] <rayh> He's got 4 motors on the bench.
[17:56:05] <les_w> super busy with work...but this wekend I hope to plow
[17:56:17] <rayh> Be interesting to hear how they tune up for him.
[17:56:19] <les_w> just ordered a rototiller for the tractor
[17:56:45] <les_w> any idea of servo update rate ray?
[17:57:09] <rayh> Stock right now. That will be a later test of his.
[17:57:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is holding a guitar
[17:57:36] <rayh> He's an old time servo robot guy so I'm looking forward to his report.
[17:57:42] <anonimasu> but I need to go to work and fetch a plc in a bit..
[17:57:45] <anonimasu> need to work
[17:57:50] <les_w> great
[17:58:10] <les_w> I am having to do tax stuff
[17:58:18] <les_w> calls for missing 1099s
[17:58:25] <les_w> you know the drill
[17:59:05] <rayh> Ah right. I thought if they didn't send a 1099 by end jan you were in the clear.
[17:59:35] <les_w> ???huh?? like income is not taxable??
[18:00:14] <les_w> what have I done...
[18:00:22] <anonimasu> that cant happen right?
[18:00:35] <rayh> Nah. The 1099 is designed to exract extra if you contract big time for only for one.
[18:00:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[18:00:58] <anonimasu> I with I could be free
[18:00:58] <les_w> I have not a clue about this stuff
[18:01:14] <rayh> I hand it all to the accountant and smile a lot.
[18:01:26] <les_w> but the accountant better work miracles
[18:01:42] <rayh> Mine seems to do that quite a lot.
[18:01:48] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:01:54] <anonimasu> they do, that's why you hire them
[18:02:00] <les_w> all of the sudden I am making money again.
[18:02:18] <anonimasu> if you do get one make sure she's old the kind that keeps spending balanced ;)
[18:02:21] <rayh> That's a good way to do it.
[18:02:34] <anonimasu> err of the old kind..
[18:02:36] <les_w> heh
[18:02:41] <anonimasu> that rocks :)
[18:02:53] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is impressed by the lady at the office
[18:02:53] <les_w> my spending is a little unbalanced
[18:03:01] <les_w> I just bought a car cash.
[18:03:11] <rayh> True. IMO creative accounting is not a good job for the young.
[18:03:12] <les_w> drove it to chicago
[18:03:37] <les_w> My blood has thinned
[18:03:43] <anonimasu> thinned?
[18:03:49] <les_w> I froze my a$$ off up there
[18:03:51] <rayh> Don't you hate that.
[18:04:02] <anonimasu> ah yeah :/
[18:04:17] <les_w> but wow did I get contracts
[18:04:33] <rayh> Sunshine and warm today. Lake is still frozen but I'd not drive a truck out there anymore.
[18:04:52] <les_w> 60 and overcast here
[18:08:22] <rayh> You planting along with the tilling?
[18:12:23] <les_w> it's the golf course. First till, then drag chain harrow, then seed,straw, and roll
[18:13:28] <rayh> Ah. That is beginning to sound like work.
[18:14:19] <les_w> nah just weekend fun. I need to get out and do stuff like that to get away from work some
[18:15:59] <les_w> I need to dig a quick little pond for a source of watter too
[18:16:29] <les_w> I'll pump it up from a small creek
[18:20:53] <alex_joni> hi les
[18:20:57] <alex_joni> rayh: still there?
[18:25:24] <rayh> You bet.
[18:25:42] <rayh> doing a bit of coding on halconfig.
[18:25:50] <alex_joni> was wondering about tkemc
[18:25:57] <alex_joni> you said earlier it has some problems
[18:26:50] <rayh> Ah. Yes I was getting errors still.
[18:27:39] <rayh> When I tried to edit a gcode file twice.
[18:27:51] <rayh> button already exists was the message.
[18:28:10] <alex_joni> hmm.. did that ever work?
[18:28:13] <rayh> let me see if I can help chase it down.
[18:28:32] <rayh> Yes it has worked until now.
[18:31:11] <rayh> Found it.
[18:31:25] <alex_joni> what is it?
[18:32:17] <rayh> line 250 msgcat.
[18:32:49] <rayh> should read geneditStart programEditor "untitled.ngc"
[18:33:15] <rayh> I'll look at some of the other popups and then commit.
[18:33:23] <alex_joni> great
[18:33:29] <alex_joni> will you commit to HEAD?
[18:34:33] <rayh> Yep.
[18:34:46] <rayh> Should we also commit to release
[18:35:15] <rayh> If yes, you'll have to teach me how.
[18:37:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is not sure what would be best
[18:37:53] <cradek> cvs up -r v2_0_branch
[18:37:54] <rayh> I could checkout a copy of "release" and fix and commit both.
[18:37:55] <cradek> make your change
[18:37:59] <cradek> cvs commit
[18:38:05] <cradek> cvs up -A to get back to head
[18:38:24] <cradek> or, make a new checkout of the branch in a separate directory (recommended)
[18:38:35] <alex_joni> yeah, I'd recommend that too
[18:38:36] <rayh> Okay. I'll do that.
[18:38:42] <alex_joni> have emc2/ and emc2-release/
[18:38:56] <alex_joni> the second one checked out with -r v2_0_branch
[18:39:08] <alex_joni> cradek: but will we commit each bug to both places?
[18:39:13] <alex_joni> err.. bugfix :D
[18:39:16] <cradek> haha
[18:39:22] <jepler> Bugfixes have to be committed twice to be fixed in both branches
[18:39:23] <rayh> I think so.
[18:39:32] <alex_joni> yeah, I know they have to
[18:39:42] <alex_joni> ok, nm.. wasn't thinking straight :)
[18:39:49] <jepler> You might decide that some bugs don't warrant being fixed on the stable branch
[18:39:53] <cradek> but we have to be sure they are bug fixes, don't get confused
[18:39:55] <jepler> or that they should be fixed in a different way
[18:40:00] <cradek> right, what jepler says
[18:40:06] <rayh> I think "bugs" will propagate by themselves;)
[18:40:14] <fenn> rayh i started
[18:40:17] <fenn> erf.
[18:40:31] <fenn> i started adding logging capability to halscope, but its pretty rudimentary right now
[18:40:31] <rayh> Hi fenn
[18:40:32] <jepler> (i.e., in 2.0 we should do a band-aid fix; in 2.1 we should make a more sweeping change)
[18:40:38] <fenn> morning :)_
[18:40:44] <fenn> * fenn wipes drool off face
[18:40:52] <alex_joni> morning fenn
[18:41:02] <rayh> How do you do that from rt?
[18:41:15] <alex_joni> rayh: the data goes through SHM to userspace
[18:41:28] <fenn> you uncomment a line in scope.c and it saves all active channels to scope.log
[18:41:31] <rayh> Okay and a user space program saves it.
[18:41:42] <jepler> By the way, CVS can help you merge the changes from the HEAD back to the branch. If your bug was fixed in version 1.21 of foo.c, you can 'cvs update -j1.20 -j1.21 foo.c' in the maint branch. CVS will perform the merge and leave conflicts in the file with the <<<< >>>> format.
[18:42:01] <jepler> You can also use 'cvs diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 foo.c | patch foo.c' and if there are failures you'll get a .rej file
[18:42:54] <jepler> er, s/maint branch/stable branch/
[18:43:02] <rayh> my head reels from the attack of the teachers.
[18:44:16] <fenn> jymmm check out sparkfun or olimex prototype services
[18:44:34] <fenn> but for LED carriers you dont need all that fancy stuff.. just use the ol' ironing board technique :P
[18:44:50] <Jymmm> ?
[18:46:08] <jepler> I'm not sure what the "ironing board" technique is either.
[18:46:29] <fenn> http://www.batchpcb.com/faq.php
[18:46:53] <fenn> oh the "ironing board" technique - print out on a laser printer and iron the paper onto blank copper-clad
[18:46:57] <jepler> lol: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/dremel_releases_new_workstatio.html
[18:47:10] <fenn> you have to use photo paper or magazine paper
[18:47:31] <fenn> then soak in water and the paper peels off, and you can etch it with your etchant of choice
[18:47:33] <jepler> fenn: oh -- toner transfer + chemicals?
[18:48:12] <cradek> fenn: Have you actually had good luck with that? I've done it and it sucks
[18:48:27] <cradek> the best I found was to use transparencies, but it still was bad
[18:49:35] <cradek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladyada/109988714/in/set-72057594078225242/
[18:49:50] <alex_joni> cradek: transparencies and UV light on photoresistive copper
[18:50:08] <cradek> alex_joni: sure, but I mean the iron method
[18:50:12] <skunkworks> I work for a screen printing company. I just make a positive -> silkscreen ;)
[18:50:22] <rayh> found another --> invalid command name "emc_log_isopen"
[18:50:34] <skunkworks> I alwas wanted to try the iron on mothod though
[18:50:41] <cradek> even in this picture you can see that 2 of the 3 transfers are unusable
[18:50:59] <jepler> strangely, involving both the dremel thing I just mentioned, and the toner transfer method
[18:51:11] <alex_joni> I'm not worried about the ones where you can see that they are unusable
[18:51:21] <alex_joni> I'm worried about the ones that look ok, but aren't
[18:51:35] <alex_joni> and if it is something you rely on, forget it
[18:51:53] <cradek> actually 3/3 have obvious defects
[18:51:56] <jepler> cradek: Have you milled an invisibly flawed board yet?
[18:52:10] <jepler> seems like if they look good, they are good
[18:52:11] <cradek> jepler: nope
[18:52:13] <alex_joni> jepler: milling is different
[18:52:20] <jepler> alex_joni: yeah -- it's dependable
[18:52:22] <alex_joni> you can see if you damage the cabling
[18:52:30] <alex_joni> but if it's shading of black..
[18:53:17] <alex_joni> new testing tgz: http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc2-testing-2006-03-30.tar.gz
[18:53:21] <rayh> Chuck up a sharpie perminent marker and draw the traces then etch?
[18:53:30] <skunkworks> My first circuit boards where painted on with finger nail polish. (I was around 10)
[18:53:46] <skunkworks> that sucked
[18:53:57] <cradek> rayh: I thought about trying that with my pen plotter, but marker didn't seem to stop the etchant when I experimented
[18:54:28] <skunkworks> magic marker (sharpie) didn't work for me either.
[18:54:46] <skunkworks> unless they have changed the formulation sense then.
[18:54:55] <cradek> it seems to be common knowledge that you can etch-resist with a sharpie, but when you actually try it, you can't
[18:55:51] <alex_joni> rayh: I just added a newsflash to the linuxcnc.org page
[18:55:59] <alex_joni> and it needs approval before it gets added :)
[18:56:29] <skunkworks> radio crap used to sell dry transfer sheets. - that is what I used the most. (for one or two boards)
[18:56:35] <alex_joni> and I do have all the powers there can be on joomla ;) (so I think we're safe from users adding unwanted stuff)
[18:56:46] <skunkworks> But a good screen printed board is nice.
[18:57:03] <cradek> skunkworks: jepler just found some of that crap at my house, we both had a good laugh
[18:57:11] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:57:42] <fenn> no i havent done toner transfer but i know people that have
[18:57:43] <cradek> if you don't have a mill, photo processes are obviously best, but the sensitized board is expensive
[18:57:45] <skunkworks> If I where doing one now - I would try milling it.
[18:58:22] <cradek> skunkworks: milling works great. You get easy drilling too then, and the holes are even in the right places.
[18:58:27] <skunkworks> I actually had a kit that had a spray bottle of photosense. (didn't have good luck with that ither)
[18:58:33] <skunkworks> either
[18:58:50] <jepler> clearly what we should be doing is panting the conductive stuff onto the bare FR4 board
[18:59:07] <alex_joni> jepler: if the paint were good enough
[18:59:13] <alex_joni> but it's not, and it's expensive
[18:59:17] <cradek> jepler: a very long time ago, I tried that using a conductive ink marker and cardboard
[18:59:30] <skunkworks> we have samples here of screening for touch pads.
[18:59:36] <cradek> I thought I was some kind of genius to come up with the idea (I was really young)
[18:59:52] <skunkworks> (we do not do much electronic screening - mostly overlays and decals)
[19:00:14] <cradek> I also thought I could use darkly-drawn pencil traces, because I read somewhere that pencil lead is conductive
[19:00:38] <skunkworks> cradek: did we grow up in the same family?
[19:00:39] <fenn> cradek: did it work? :)
[19:00:52] <cradek> skunkworks: I don't think so...
[19:00:55] <cradek> fenn: uh, not really.
[19:01:15] <fenn> http://rifraf.rememberit.com.au/openservo/openservo2-bottom.jpg <- toner transfer
[19:01:36] <skunkworks> I could never get the photo sensitive spray on the circuit boards evenly enough.
[19:01:38] <cradek> although you can make a grid-leak resistor for your radio with a pencil line (1-10 megohm)
[19:02:22] <cradek> some of the old ones even look a lot like a piece of pencil lead in a glass tube
[19:04:55] <jepler> graphite = carbon. a lot of resistors are "carbon composition". whatever that means.
[19:05:26] <cradek> fenn: that's nice fine pitch, but it looks like some things are touching that shouldn't be
[19:05:36] <skunkworks> maybe the sharpie works if you don't agitate the acid. But once I found out if I shaked the container the circuit board etched in minutes - I never looked back.
[19:05:57] <cradek> skunkworks: maybe, I always shook it too (and heated it)
[19:06:13] <jepler> yeah -- I see what looks like a problem at the very left side, the leftmost trace to the next to bottom smd
[19:06:59] <cradek> I'm sure you guys have all seen my one pcb picture: http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[19:07:34] <skunkworks> have you guys ever used bakelite(sp) circuit boards? Eww (you look at the traces funny and they come of the board)
[19:07:52] <jepler> Here's another board from chris's cnc machine: http://axis.unpy.net/files/etchcnc/etch-board-full-small.jpg
[19:07:57] <cradek> skunkworks: nope
[19:08:00] <jepler> (no small, tight traces there, though)
[19:08:20] <skunkworks> I had some really old stock ;)
[19:08:51] <cradek> jepler: I wish I had taken a picture of the board I made for ted - those smd pads were on .8mm centers
[19:09:22] <skunkworks> cradek: am I seeing the resolution of your machine?
[19:09:36] <skunkworks> (stair stepping)
[19:10:08] <cradek> no, you're seeing your browser scale the image badly
[19:10:13] <cradek> click on it
[19:10:23] <skunkworks> nope - that was my monitor
[19:10:25] <skunkworks> sorry
[19:10:34] <cradek> ha
[19:10:38] <cradek> my firefox scales badly
[19:10:46] <jepler> yeah firefox has that issue
[19:11:03] <jepler> cradek: with your new rod, is it 6400 half-steps per inch?
[19:11:22] <cradek> yes in XY
[19:11:29] <cradek> Z is still 8000
[19:16:36] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO
[19:16:43] <alex_joni> http://www.humanupgrades.com/
[19:16:44] <giacus> ?
[19:17:13] <alex_joni> go to Human Upgrades -> The Team -> Anesthesiologists
[19:17:22] <alex_joni> then select the 4th from the left
[19:17:29] <rayh> late reply. I was able to make several boards by using a sharpie but that was 1980.
[19:17:30] <giacus> mmm
[19:17:33] <giacus> :)
[19:17:36] <alex_joni> "Emma Loop"
[19:18:12] <alex_joni> rayh: had a friend that only took a copper board, and drew stuff with a marker
[19:18:20] <alex_joni> no schematic or design of any kind
[19:18:30] <giacus> * giacus is looking for a new brain as gift for berlusconi ..
[19:18:51] <alex_joni> http://www.humanupgrades.com/images/team/ane4.htm <- that's "Emma Loop" (check out the description)
[19:19:05] <alex_joni> ROFL
[19:19:52] <rayh> Right. I did a number of prototypes that way.
[19:20:26] <rayh> hey giacus, it won't take much of one to improve the situation.
[19:20:56] <giacus> right.. 5-6k
[19:20:59] <giacus> :)
[19:21:41] <giacus> maybe you know rocco siffredi
[19:22:17] <giacus> is a porn actor, he's on a spot in these days
[19:22:39] <skunkworks> Alex - I would want her on my team also - I think
[19:22:44] <giacus> he sayd, berlusconi is tired, give a vote and i'll sodomize all you for the next 5 years .. for free
[19:22:51] <giacus> im thinking up :(
[19:23:00] <giacus> 9 april is near ..
[19:24:24] <rayh> IMO he's as slimy as most any political servant.
[19:25:07] <rayh> * rayh won't get started on politics.
[19:25:28] <giacus> yeah, its a black beast ..
[19:26:44] <giacus> btw, it a strange thing that a reporter to talk about him have to go in french ..
[19:26:49] <giacus> or other countries
[19:27:06] <giacus> they cannot talk about berlusconi-mafia here
[19:27:14] <giacus> justice is comprimised
[19:27:25] <giacus> thats the bad thing ..
[19:28:04] <giacus> and peoples is going on wathing TV programs
[19:28:34] <giacus> without know nothing about what happen to the other side
[19:28:43] <giacus> thats is italy today.
[19:30:06] <giacus> anyway, if ill find a goos screwdriver and brain ill try :P
[19:30:31] <giacus> just not as frankenstein junior
[19:32:00] <giacus> oh.. it was YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN 1974
[19:32:32] <giacus> great mel brook's
[19:41:44] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[19:46:34] <giacus> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8751284902995767173&q=berlusconi&pl=true
[19:46:45] <giacus> if you want to know why i'm tired ..
[19:46:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wouldn't dare
[19:46:59] <giacus> and who is the 'best partner' ..
[19:47:14] <giacus> well the doc you see
[19:47:22] <giacus> hanst seen by italian peoples
[19:47:25] <giacus> :D
[19:47:29] <giacus> funny ..
[19:47:49] <giacus> instead, has been censured
[19:47:52] <alex_joni> fsc it, 55 minutes?
[19:47:57] <alex_joni> you're kidding
[19:47:58] <giacus> yeah ..
[19:48:11] <giacus> server is overload also I suppose..
[19:48:19] <giacus> try to listen some minuts
[19:51:23] <giacus> thats is a long story.. since 1990..
[19:52:48] <giacus> as I sayd, it is interesting because is whatt all wolrd seen except italians
[19:55:21] <giacus> :-)
[19:59:25] <giacus> what does not appear on TV does not exist
[19:59:37] <giacus> he sayd
[20:00:06] <giacus> so, the power is information
[20:00:20] <giacus> and press
[20:02:16] <giacus> the*
[20:06:56] <giacus> lol
[20:07:05] <giacus> :P
[20:07:28] <berlusconi> berlusconi is now known as alex_joni
[20:14:29] <SWPadnos> ok. looks like it's time to restart Mozilla. be back later
[20:21:06] <K4ts> hello
[20:21:18] <giacus> hi K4ts
[20:22:25] <K4ts> hi les_w
[20:22:31] <giacus> I was talking about our premier
[20:22:51] <giacus> he sayd we are anti-americans ..
[20:23:07] <giacus> because we are to the left an he's to the right side
[20:23:13] <giacus> O_O
[20:23:16] <giacus> so ..
[20:23:31] <giacus> I was thinkink if rayh is from somalia
[20:23:46] <giacus> les_w: from holland
[20:24:02] <giacus> stallam from china ?
[20:24:07] <giacus> :D
[20:25:46] <giacus> stallman*
[20:26:40] <les_w> hi k4ts
[20:26:44] <les_w> hi jacky
[20:26:51] <giacus> hello les_w :)
[20:28:04] <Jymmm> speal of the devil...
[20:28:06] <Jymmm> speak
[20:28:09] <giacus> hehe
[20:28:21] <giacus> nah ..
[20:28:25] <Jymmm> I mean les_w
[20:28:32] <giacus> oh ..
[20:28:34] <giacus> :)
[20:29:14] <giacus> * giacus was thinking to another devil
[20:29:16] <giacus> haha
[20:29:41] <les_w> ah....my microsoft wireless mouse broke...
[20:29:56] <giacus> les_w: good
[20:30:05] <Jymmm> les
[20:30:27] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[20:30:32] <giacus> les_w: switch to the keyboard !
[20:30:36] <giacus> hehe
[20:30:49] <MrAsshole> * MrAsshole poops on les to get his attention.
[20:31:06] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[20:31:37] <Jymmm> * Jymmm thinks les_w has him on ignore
[20:32:13] <les_w> no I was crawling under the table
[20:32:22] <les_w> hooked up an old mouse
[20:32:24] <Jymmm> for the last two weeks?
[20:32:36] <les_w> oh...I was in chicago
[20:32:43] <Jymmm> before that
[20:32:57] <Jymmm> I'm musta said hi to you at least 5 times
[20:33:06] <Jymmm> maybe just timing
[20:33:11] <les_w> yeah
[20:33:17] <les_w> I was in the shop a lot
[20:33:32] <les_w> getting ready for the visit
[20:33:36] <Jymmm> actually, WAY longer now that I think about it...
[20:33:51] <les_w> I have been busy!
[20:34:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, since March 8th
[20:34:12] <les_w> and I booked myself up pretty good for this year too
[20:34:26] <les_w> the rest of it
[20:34:54] <Jymmm> les_w: Well you have a few minutes now?
[20:35:06] <les_w> yeah
[20:35:33] <Jymmm> les_w Could use a lil help with ideas on that.
[20:36:40] <Jymmm> les_w I tried playing with some 1/4" acrylic bar, but not that effective.
[20:36:40] <giacus> les_w: how is going the invention and emc2 ?
[20:36:55] <giacus> any progress ?
[20:38:10] <giacus> i've not been around latest night
[20:38:22] <giacus> i'm working on the new website :(
[20:38:36] <giacus> it will take a bit of time
[20:39:08] <les_w> nothing on emc2 yet but the invention is going very very well
[20:39:19] <giacus> nice
[20:40:24] <les_w> that is what part of my chicago stay was about
[20:40:47] <giacus> yeah, I know ..
[20:41:50] <giacus> I'm following, at least in that
[20:41:55] <les_w> I drove the new car and it did well
[20:42:20] <giacus> how much away is chicago from there ?
[20:43:05] <les_w> both ways about 3500 km
[20:43:17] <giacus> wow, a lot
[20:43:36] <les_w> yup that is why I wanted a very comfortable car
[20:43:49] <giacus> how many hours ?
[20:43:49] <Jymmm> les_w: Did you see that pic?
[20:43:53] <anonimasu> isnt that 3 hours..
[20:43:58] <anonimasu> not that far..
[20:44:03] <anonimasu> well 3�
[20:44:09] <les_w> yeah I saw the pic
[20:44:18] <les_w> are you identified?
[20:44:23] <Jymmm> les_w: yes
[20:44:24] <les_w> I answered
[20:44:36] <Jymmm> les are YOU identified?
[20:44:42] <les_w> you need a leaky lightpipe
[20:44:44] <les_w> yeah
[20:44:44] <giacus> hehe
[20:44:55] <les_w> with no metalization
[20:46:15] <Jymmm> les_w could you resend that please (up arrow)?
[20:46:28] <les_w> k
[20:47:37] <les_w> weird
[20:47:48] <les_w> jacky can you do gcc now?
[20:48:25] <alex_joni> heh, or maybe g++ ?
[20:48:45] <les_w> dcc oops
[20:48:47] <alex_joni> les_w: think you wanted dcc not gcc ;)
[20:48:54] <les_w> haha
[20:49:26] <alex_joni> close enough
[20:50:57] <giacus> oh, sorry ..
[20:51:01] <giacus> i'm
[20:51:06] <giacus> dcc ? no ..
[20:51:10] <giacus> im firewalled
[20:51:38] <giacus> I should do it
[20:51:57] <les_w> aw, I wanted to show you car pics!
[20:52:10] <giacus> wait .. a sec
[20:52:15] <les_w> k
[20:52:21] <giacus> I should edit some file, or ..
[20:54:35] <giacus> * giacus configuring email ..
[20:54:42] <K4ts> les_w: what is DCC?
[20:54:59] <giacus> K4ts: file transfer via irc
[20:55:04] <K4ts> ah
[20:55:23] <giacus> oh les_w try with K4ts
[20:55:31] <les_w> yes I want to show you my car!
[20:55:33] <les_w> ok
[20:55:35] <giacus> she's not firewalled I guess
[20:55:36] <les_w> just a sec
[20:55:54] <giacus> I should edit iptables instead
[20:57:55] <les_w> k4ts you should see a request window
[20:58:02] <K4ts> yes
[20:58:32] <les_w> click ok or yes
[20:58:38] <les_w> so the file will send
[20:58:48] <K4ts> yes i accepted
[20:58:58] <les_w> oh ok
[20:59:14] <les_w> it timed out
[20:59:20] <les_w> darn
[20:59:38] <K4ts> [INFO] Now logging to <file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/anna/Dati%20applicazioni/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/vhe6l3yg.default/chatzilla/logs/dcc/les_w/les_w.2006-03-30.log>.
[20:59:47] <giacus> :)
[20:59:48] <K4ts> non va
[21:00:00] <K4ts> mi da messaggio di errore
[21:00:07] <giacus> les_w: you can use email giacomo at giacus.org
[21:00:19] <giacus> or anna at giacus.org
[21:00:32] <les_w> ok I will email
[21:00:37] <giacus> K
[21:00:56] <K4ts> No default action for objects of type ``IRCDCCFileTransfer''.
[21:02:00] <giacus> K4ts: no clue ..
[21:02:14] <giacus> I dont know much about chatzilla
[21:04:14] <giacus> anna: http://webmail.aruba.it/
[21:04:32] <giacus> you have a new mail box :P
[21:04:48] <K4ts> aruba? io non ho rubato nulla ah ah
[21:04:59] <giacus> no aruba
[21:05:06] <K4ts> hi hi
[21:05:19] <les_w> sent
[21:05:20] <giacus> anna chiocciola giacus.org
[21:05:34] <les_w> forward to anna...it will take less time
[21:05:41] <giacus> passwd you know
[21:06:12] <giacus> les_w: I found gthumb is nice for photos
[21:06:36] <giacus> I seen alex_joni albums time ago and tried it
[21:06:43] <giacus> its very nice and simple
[21:07:12] <giacus> latest album I upload ws the total eclipse of yesterday :P
[21:07:17] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/eclipse/index.html
[21:07:46] <les_w> ok also sent to anna
[21:09:49] <les_w> I want to know if anna thinks it is old man car.
[21:09:58] <les_w> haha
[21:10:01] <giacus> hehe
[21:11:42] <les_w> i'll be back in about 10 minutes
[21:11:44] <giacus> ok received ..
[21:11:46] <giacus> looking
[21:11:54] <les_w> must check on grandma
[21:12:00] <les_w> well?
[21:12:06] <les_w> old man car?
[21:13:16] <giacus> wow :P
[21:13:31] <giacus> first of all its a very elegant colour
[21:13:33] <les_w> wow really old man car huh
[21:13:34] <les_w> hahaha
[21:13:45] <les_w> dark pearl blue
[21:13:51] <giacus> wonderful inside
[21:13:55] <giacus> yeah
[21:14:04] <giacus> I like black or whithe for cars
[21:14:10] <les_w> ivory leather and california walnut inside
[21:14:10] <giacus> in some case red
[21:14:20] <giacus> just for sportive cars
[21:14:20] <les_w> my bmw is red
[21:14:22] <giacus> like ferrari
[21:14:34] <les_w> my truck is white.
[21:14:44] <les_w> hey brb
[21:14:58] <giacus> K
[21:15:23] <K4ts> I don't see anything
[21:24:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[21:24:38] <les_w> back
[21:24:39] <alex_joni> night all
[21:24:45] <les_w> night alex
[21:24:52] <giacus> night alex_joni
[21:24:55] <les_w> so did k4ts see?
[21:25:17] <giacus> mmm fightin :(
[21:25:29] <giacus> skynet2:/home/jack# nmap -sT
[21:25:40] <giacus> PORT STATE SERVICE
[21:25:41] <giacus> 25/tcp filtered smtp
[21:25:41] <giacus> 135/tcp open msrpc
[21:25:41] <giacus> 139/tcp open netbios-ssn
[21:25:41] <giacus> 445/tcp open microsoft-ds
[21:25:51] <giacus> where is vnc server ? O_O
[21:25:53] <giacus> haha
[21:26:19] <giacus> I was tryng to connect her and help
[21:26:21] <giacus> lol
[21:26:29] <les_w> ah ok
[21:26:43] <giacus> K4ts: run vnc server !
[21:27:17] <giacus> :(
[21:27:24] <K4ts> servizio non avviato
[21:27:26] <K4ts> dice
[21:27:42] <giacus> you should see the icon in the tray bar
[21:28:08] <K4ts> vedo ora
[21:28:12] <K4ts> c'è icona
[21:28:39] <giacus> yeah :)
[21:34:03] <K4ts> les_w: i don't see your car! :-(
[21:34:29] <les_w> aww
[21:36:37] <giacus> thats because there was a flag on remember my IP logging the mail box ..
[21:36:49] <giacus> K4ts: give me some min.
[21:36:55] <K4ts> ok
[21:37:14] <giacus> the server remember my IP and refuse the yours ..
[21:38:56] <K4ts> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=37&cid=2
[21:39:09] <K4ts> les_w: look my little dog
[21:41:18] <les_w> k
[21:42:32] <les_w> nice!
[21:42:37] <les_w> tiny dog
[21:43:32] <K4ts> yes
[21:44:30] <les_w> looking at more pictures
[21:46:14] <les_w> I only have a cat and chickens
[21:46:27] <les_w> cat is old...16 years
[21:47:11] <K4ts> my dog is sick
[21:47:43] <K4ts> of scabies
[21:48:00] <les_w> well that can be cured right?
[21:48:31] <fenn> yuck scabies
[21:48:40] <les_w> heh
[21:48:44] <les_w> what is that
[21:48:47] <les_w> I forgot
[21:49:00] <les_w> i'll hunt it up
[21:49:01] <fenn> little mites that can be transferred just by touching something the dog sat on
[21:49:24] <K4ts> is atcare
[21:49:28] <K4ts> at care
[21:49:29] <anonimasu> yeah but it's expensive to cure
[21:49:35] <giacus> hackers ?
[21:49:38] <giacus> :D
[21:50:27] <K4ts> yes anonimasu
[21:50:31] <les_w> i googled it
[21:50:45] <les_w> dog scabies not transferable to humans
[21:50:51] <K4ts> rogna sarcoptica
[21:51:17] <K4ts> yes trasferable humns
[21:51:22] <K4ts> humans
[21:51:30] <K4ts> i have
[21:51:32] <giacus> as I sayd.. that dogs comes from east ..
[21:52:03] <giacus> and the funny thing is K4ts payed 250 only for insurance
[21:52:05] <giacus> hehe
[21:52:10] <les_w> the site I have says the mites might jump on humans for a lttle while but then they die
[21:52:20] <les_w> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/scabies/factsht_scabies.htm
[21:53:29] <les_w> So once your dog is treated you will be ok too.
[21:53:30] <K4ts> my do have payed 850 euro 250 for insurance
[21:53:37] <giacus> les_w: can I put your photos on my webspace to show them to K4ts ?
[21:53:40] <K4ts> 300 for pedigree
[21:53:43] <les_w> gasp
[21:53:46] <giacus> Ill remove it after ..
[21:53:46] <les_w> haha
[21:54:10] <K4ts> sigh
[21:54:43] <les_w> my cat and chickens cost nothing
[21:54:49] <les_w> but much food costs
[21:54:54] <les_w> in 16 years
[21:55:18] <K4ts> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=36
[21:55:29] <K4ts> ah ah les
[21:55:40] <les_w> oh, yes put the car pic on the site please
[21:56:31] <giacus> K4ts: the mailbox seems to be locked from there, ill' see later ..
[21:56:41] <K4ts> ok
[21:57:05] <giacus> go here http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/les_w/index.html
[21:57:32] <K4ts> tomorrrow woww
[21:57:33] <K4ts> les_w:
[21:57:45] <K4ts> beautifullllllllllllllllll
[21:57:53] <giacus> :P
[21:57:56] <les_w> old man car?
[21:58:04] <giacus> les_w: is able to choose cars
[21:58:07] <K4ts> noooooo
[21:58:15] <les_w> hahaha
[21:58:58] <K4ts> car just for les!
[21:59:07] <les_w> heh
[21:59:28] <giacus> nice design
[22:00:18] <les_w> I needed something comfortable for business use
[22:00:33] <K4ts> now to come at italy
[22:00:42] <giacus> with the car ?
[22:00:45] <giacus> hehe
[22:00:50] <K4ts> yes
[22:00:51] <K4ts> ah ah
[22:00:55] <les_w> oh, i'll need a ferrari for that
[22:01:06] <giacus> better with the plane ..
[22:01:10] <K4ts> cosi ci porta con se
[22:01:13] <K4ts> a capri
[22:01:20] <les_w> I flew some in chicago
[22:01:22] <K4ts> wow
[22:01:26] <les_w> but had engine trouble
[22:02:11] <giacus> youre a mechanical guy :P
[22:02:19] <giacus> whats the problem
[22:02:26] <giacus> hehe.. kidding
[22:02:40] <K4ts> les_w: tomorrow I come georgia :-)
[22:02:59] <les_w> Well, I did try some things in the air
[22:03:00] <giacus> or in office :(
[22:03:29] <giacus> les_w: Im already impressed by the crash of d'arrigo :/
[22:03:38] <les_w> but the engine continued to run rough
[22:03:44] <giacus> it should be a video online somewhere..
[22:03:51] <les_w> I returned to the airport and landed
[22:04:00] <les_w> bad intake valve I think
[22:04:54] <les_w> It was just a bit rough...I did not declare an emergency or anything
[22:05:05] <giacus> les_w: here is http://www.repubblica.it/2006/c/video/sezioni/cronaca/aereopic/aereopic/aereopic.html
[22:05:17] <les_w> it would misfire when I added throttle
[22:06:51] <giacus> http://www.tg5.mediaset.it/video/2006/03/vedivideo_5013.shtml
[22:06:59] <giacus> K4ts: you seen the video ?
[22:07:18] <les_w> did not load
[22:07:19] <giacus> the morning we was at the stallman conference
[22:07:22] <les_w> checking
[22:07:25] <giacus> try the second url
[22:07:33] <K4ts> foto
[22:07:35] <K4ts> no video
[22:07:39] <les_w> oh I was flying one of these
[22:07:51] <giacus> was a small airplane
[22:07:52] <K4ts> ok
[22:07:53] <les_w> http://www.deltaaviation.co.uk/about/planes/warrior.htm
[22:08:25] <giacus> yeah ..
[22:08:42] <les_w> but it had newer instruments
[22:08:47] <les_w> large screen gps
[22:09:14] <giacus> the driver was a man with 25k hours of fly
[22:09:19] <giacus> not d'arrigo ..
[22:09:26] <les_w> still trying to see it
[22:09:34] <giacus> the're were 2 peoples aboard
[22:10:02] <giacus> the other was driving
[22:10:47] <les_w> what should I click?
[22:11:08] <K4ts> non vedo nulla
[22:11:24] <giacus> http://www.tg5.mediaset.it/video/2006/03/vedivideo_5013.shtml
[22:11:39] <giacus> should be attomatically loaded
[22:11:43] <giacus> not ?
[22:12:23] <giacus> or maybe depend on player you've installed :(
[22:12:41] <giacus> i'm using mplayer, windows media player should work too
[22:13:14] <giacus> that video don't show much ..
[22:13:17] <K4ts> I don't see
[22:13:50] <giacus> lot of peoples captured the 'scene' with a cellphone
[22:14:01] <les_w> bad crash
[22:14:09] <giacus> vertical
[22:14:20] <giacus> peoples was thinking at virtuosism
[22:15:28] <giacus> les_w: he flyed on everest
[22:15:39] <giacus> 9k meters
[22:15:46] <les_w> one of the airplanes at the field in chicago crashed a couple weeks ago.
[22:15:53] <giacus> here's another http://multimedia.repubblica.it/home/173056
[22:15:58] <les_w> I had flown that airplane a lot.
[22:17:15] <giacus> btw' it seems a human error there
[22:17:27] <les_w> wow
[22:18:09] <les_w> yes crashes are usually human error
[22:18:25] <giacus> I was thinking an engine issue ..
[22:19:13] <les_w> I have lost an engine once
[22:19:25] <les_w> I glided to a good landing
[22:19:33] <giacus> :(
[22:19:42] <K4ts> giacus I have new blotch on skin
[22:19:49] <K4ts> sigh
[22:20:03] <giacus> K4ts: don't worry about it
[22:20:11] <K4ts> grrrrrrrrrr
[22:20:15] <les_w> when your dog is cured you will be too!
[22:20:18] <giacus> this morning you talked with doctors ..
[22:21:06] <les_w> haha I have lots of blotches
[22:21:18] <giacus> :)
[22:21:23] <les_w> laying on a beach in florida for 10 years will do that
[22:21:38] <les_w> I lived on the shore
[22:21:55] <K4ts> night
[22:21:59] <K4ts> night
[22:22:04] <les_w> good night k4ts
[22:22:08] <giacus> night K4ts
[22:22:13] <giacus> see you tomnorrow
[22:22:24] <giacus> dont worry ;)
[22:24:46] <les_w> I guess I will draw up a lossy lightpipe for jymmm
[22:24:57] <les_w> for his edge lighted signs
[22:25:03] <giacus> nice
[22:25:32] <les_w> later!
[22:25:35] <giacus> later
[22:29:50] <fenn> oh.. i thought he was fixing a busted LCD screen
[22:29:55] <fenn> silly fnen
[22:33:34] <giacus> hi fenn
[22:33:48] <giacus> mm hard to get, I guess
[22:34:55] <giacus> I eard he was talking about smt components some day ago
[22:48:13] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=727346500427703770&q=lathe
[22:48:56] <anonimasu> holy crap
[23:02:10] <ramsberg> Hi people
[23:02:40] <ramsberg> anyone around for a question?
[23:04:01] <ramsberg> sorry, dropped connection...Anyone here?
[23:04:42] <giacus> yes
[23:04:47] <giacus> we are
[23:05:27] <giacus> what's the question ?
[23:05:53] <ramsberg> just reinstalled with ubuntu and emc2...
[23:06:23] <ramsberg> everything is working well until i try to set up 0.5mm backlash for an axle...
[23:06:53] <anonimasu> hey giacus watch that video
[23:07:02] <giacus> anonimasu: yeah
[23:07:07] <ramsberg> when running the axle, it make a small tick and pops an error... some about joing out of...
[23:08:16] <ramsberg> seems like that the backlash compensation speed is too high... i cant seem to turn it down...
[23:08:30] <anonimasu> is this a stepper machine?
[23:08:37] <ramsberg> yepp...
[23:08:56] <ramsberg> joing=joint...
[23:09:19] <anonimasu> does emc error
[23:09:27] <anonimasu> or does your machine lose steps?
[23:09:58] <ramsberg> yepp, "joing out of sync" or something and the emergency stop goes on
[23:10:08] <ramsberg> damn, joinT
[23:10:16] <ramsberg> "joint out of sync"
[23:10:16] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has never seen that before
[23:10:28] <anonimasu> what happens of you lower it?
[23:10:32] <anonimasu> 0.5 is pretty large backslash
[23:10:43] <ramsberg> * ramsberg blushes.
[23:10:48] <ramsberg> i know
[23:11:12] <ramsberg> i will fix that...
[23:11:14] <anonimasu> try using 0.05
[23:11:15] <anonimasu> :)
[23:11:17] <anonimasu> and see what it does
[23:11:46] <ramsberg> backlash 0.05?
[23:11:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:11:53] <anonimasu> 0.05mm..
[23:11:59] <anonimasu> just to see if it still happens
[23:12:05] <ramsberg> ok, ill do that right away... brb
[23:12:33] <anonimasu> ok
[23:12:56] <giacus> anon thta's a monster not a lathe !
[23:13:15] <giacus> incredible
[23:13:39] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7790843153265630790&q=tool+changer
[23:13:46] <anonimasu> watch that ;)
[23:14:01] <giacus> looking
[23:16:17] <giacus> incredible fast machine
[23:16:20] <giacus> cool
[23:18:43] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:19:28] <giacus> japanese company I suppose
[23:19:33] <giacus> for what I seen
[23:19:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:20:18] <anonimasu> http://www.pluritecindustries.com/pluristation.html
[23:20:32] <giacus> that's a pleasure to see that machine working
[23:20:56] <anonimasu> I love the first lathe
[23:20:58] <anonimasu> it blows my mind
[23:21:19] <giacus> wonder about the cost
[23:21:41] <giacus> but its cool, really
[23:21:45] <anonimasu> if you crank out a 5$ part every 3sec..
[23:22:08] <anonimasu> like huydralic fittings..
[23:22:20] <anonimasu> thats 100$ per minute..
[23:22:21] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:22:30] <giacus> yeah
[23:22:39] <giacus> thta0s really high tecnology
[23:24:07] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:25:38] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3250521071319788207&q=cnc&pl=true
[23:26:59] <anonimasu> *never gets tired of watching*
[23:27:14] <giacus> yeah, cool videos
[23:28:51] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2694766710211797290&q=cnc&pl=true
[23:28:55] <anonimasu> look at the end!
[23:29:07] <anonimasu> they turn without coolant
[23:32:19] <giacus> wow
[23:33:50] <ramsberg> Hi, im back after my backlash test...
[23:34:25] <anonimasu> giacus: makes you crave for a lathe dosent it?
[23:34:29] <anonimasu> how did that work out?
[23:34:53] <ramsberg> seem like the error comes when the backlash gets over 0.3mm... is there a possibility to limit the backlash velocity=
[23:34:55] <ramsberg> ?
[23:35:09] <giacus> anonimasu: I really changed idea about lathe
[23:35:10] <anonimasu> I dont think there is
[23:35:49] <giacus> ramsberg: did you touched any other parameter around the ini files ?
[23:36:12] <anonimasu> ramsberg: usually backslash isnt that large you might have ran onto a bug
[23:36:19] <ramsberg> giacus.... well... pretty many of the yeah...
[23:36:47] <ramsberg> hehe... then the bug is "no ballscrews"
[23:37:08] <anonimasu> what kind of screws are you using anyway?
[23:37:17] <anonimasu> just curious
[23:37:45] <ramsberg> 10mm trapetziod screws with regular metal nuts...
[23:37:59] <anonimasu> hm, no preloading?
[23:38:08] <ramsberg> preloading?
[23:38:39] <anonimasu> nut(SPRING)nut
[23:38:47] <ramsberg> nope...
[23:39:03] <anonimasu> or just --nut--nut--
[23:39:08] <anonimasu> with a bit of preload
[23:40:04] <ramsberg> no... have experimenting a bit with twisting the nut sideways a bit and mounting it a bit twisted
[23:40:19] <ramsberg> with some success...
[23:40:19] <anonimasu> hm, you should try it if you want to reduce your backslask to almost zero..
[23:40:39] <anonimasu> err backslash..
[23:40:53] <ramsberg> hehe
[23:40:55] <anonimasu> ramsberg: ah you arr a swede too .)
[23:40:58] <anonimasu> :)
[23:41:00] <anonimasu> nice
[23:41:01] <ramsberg> yup
[23:41:26] <anonimasu> and I thought I were all alone :p
[23:41:38] <anonimasu> http://www.liutaiomottola.com/Tools/Backlash.htm
[23:43:10] <ramsberg> thanks...
[23:43:58] <ramsberg> been thinking about some designs of a --nut-nut-- solution but hasnt come up with anything yes...
[23:44:01] <ramsberg> yet...
[23:44:22] <giacus> ramsberg: hoy you checked the backslash ?
[23:44:30] <ramsberg> how?
[23:44:37] <giacus> how*
[23:45:29] <ramsberg> i use a hmm... whats it called... micrometer? like a clock with a pin that pushes into it
[23:45:46] <ramsberg> borrowed it from a guy with a mechanical shop
[23:45:52] <anonimasu> dial gagues
[23:45:53] <anonimasu> :)
[23:46:08] <anonimasu> gague.. that is :)
[23:46:12] <giacus> you could also try this: http://www.yty.net/cnc/
[23:46:25] <ramsberg> ahh, yeah, dial gague .good for 0.01mm
[23:46:28] <giacus> at the section: Today I got EMC's backslash settings configured....
[23:46:48] <ramsberg> ok
[23:47:09] <giacus> btw' you're probably right with measurements
[23:51:05] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[23:51:19] <anonimasu> good night..
[23:51:27] <giacus> night anonimasu
[23:51:36] <giacus> I'm going too ..
[23:51:52] <ramsberg> thanks guys!