#emc | Logs for 2006-03-27

[00:00:32] <Jymmm> quick chicken marinade for bbq is garlic, lots of lime juice, a bit of olive oil, and a touch of worchester sauce.
[00:00:55] <Jymmm> toss it all in a ziplock bag and ready in 20 to 40 minutes
[00:01:29] <Jymmm> also good for beef (fajitas)
[00:01:39] <dmessier> sounds good
[00:02:09] <Jymmm> juice of two limes, everything else to taste.
[00:02:29] <Jymmm> oil is just to help coat everything
[00:04:50] <dmessier> i'll try it
[00:05:14] <Jymmm> avoid lemon if you can, changes the flavor
[00:05:24] <dmessier> ci
[00:06:47] <dmessier> i like to use brown sugar in my BBQ sauce... granny's special taste
[00:07:06] <Jymmm> as opposed to molases you mean?
[00:07:58] <dmessier> mlases is nice too... if you can cook with it
[00:09:37] <dmessier> i still end up using b'sugar to finish it up..
[00:09:45] <Jymmm> I never tried making a bbq sauce, but never have really been into bbq sauce too much either... I'd rather slow smoke a slab of meat i think.
[00:10:27] <Jymmm> of burry it in the ground
[00:10:37] <Jymmm> over hot rocks
[00:10:49] <Jymmm> gawd that was good...
[00:11:11] <Jymmm> I was even chowing down on the strings they used to tie the meat up
[00:11:34] <Jymmm> lil tender morsales of meat stuck to the string =)
[00:35:45] <Jymmm> has anyone used engraving bits in their cnc ?
[01:05:25] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_away
[01:36:01] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[03:05:02] <fenn> * fenn belches and yawns
[03:05:24] <fenn> silly me got all excited about gravy and ate 6 cups of mashed potatoes
[04:43:45] <Jymmm> lol
[04:44:10] <fenn> * fenn kicks sdp-si in the nutts!
[04:44:22] <fenn> hiiiyah!
[04:44:37] <fenn> sumbitches dont even have the right pulley
[04:52:29] <Jymmm> I have a dumb question... why do commercial routers that you find at home depot go to 25k RPM, but we as machinsest types use chipload to dial us in to an optimal speed/feed situation?
[04:56:08] <fenn> because a 110V DC motor spins at 25K rpm
[04:56:23] <Jymmm> Yeah, and?
[04:56:39] <Jymmm> that's what the mfg set it for, but why?
[04:56:50] <fenn> er..
[04:57:29] <SWPadnos> the routers at Home Depot are meant for hand use, cutting wood
[04:57:42] <SWPadnos> if it smells/looks burnt, go faster
[04:57:59] <SWPadnos> if it's hard to push or sounds like the motor is bogging down, go slower
[04:58:15] <SWPadnos> there's automatic "chipload compensation" in the control system ;)
[04:58:32] <Jymmm> Right, but everybody will try to move that as fast as then can (most of the time)... so moving by hand at 25000 still doensn't "add up" chipload calculation wise.
[04:58:55] <SWPadnos> what are you thinking is an appropriate chipload for wood?
[04:59:10] <Jymmm> I'm not
[04:59:18] <Jymmm> too many densities
[04:59:29] <fenn> i think you expect a lot better results with your CNC router than you would if doing it by hand
[04:59:31] <SWPadnos> then how can you say it "doesn't add up"
[05:00:34] <Jymmm> fenn EXACTLY... That's why when I do something per chipload (looking it up in the charts and everything) it's likw 18000 @ 80 IPM
[05:00:45] <Jymmm> ro 40IPM
[05:00:47] <Jymmm> or
[05:00:49] <Jymmm> .
[05:00:57] <fenn> okely dokely
[05:01:08] <Jymmm> 40ipm is a rate you can do by hand
[05:01:11] <SWPadnos> but the 25k speed on the routers at HD is the no-load speed
[05:01:39] <fenn> there is some sort of primitive speed control on your router right?
[05:01:56] <SWPadnos> probably
[05:01:58] <Jymmm> on mine yes, and compensates for load too
[05:02:30] <SWPadnos> can it keep up if you try to rout in wood by hand?
[05:02:38] <SWPadnos> (as fast as you can go)
[05:02:48] <Jymmm> yeah
[05:02:53] <SWPadnos> cool
[05:03:04] <Jymmm> but I'm not talking MINE
[05:03:13] <Jymmm> In general the avg rpm is 25K
[05:04:23] <Jymmm> With that in mind, and say feed by hand is 40IPM whatever that calculates chipload wise isn't gonna be the same for everything; but it still does the job nicely.
[05:04:50] <Jymmm> does that make sense what I'm trying to convey here?
[05:05:03] <SWPadnos> sure - the chipload is partly to make the cutter last longer
[05:05:34] <SWPadnos> when you're cutting something so soft like wood (using a steel bit), I suspect the optimal chipload isn't that much better than a lot of non-optimal chiploads
[05:05:44] <SWPadnos> cutting Iron, it'll matter a lot
[05:05:50] <fenn> do you find that you actually get the best results with the manufacturer suggested chipload?
[05:06:11] <Jymmm> fenn: not so far
[05:06:18] <SWPadnos> I find nothing, since my BP is effectively a very nice drill press right now ;)
[05:06:33] <fenn> was asking jymmm
[05:06:44] <Jymmm> Even doing the math outright, I'm not getting the best results
[05:07:01] <fenn> SWPadnos: you have the handles on it still right?
[05:07:09] <SWPadnos> yep - they're back
[05:07:33] <fenn> so that's more than a drill press by my definition
[05:07:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - a very nice X-Y table on a beefy drill press
[05:08:08] <SWPadnos> I can say that there's an obvious sweet spot in milling aluminum
[05:08:31] <fenn> er, what's the difference in your view between a drill press and a milling machine?
[05:09:09] <SWPadnos> I've cut 1 inch deep, 1/2inch width slots, and I could easily feel the difference that going a little *faster* made - it started to cut like butter
[05:09:23] <SWPadnos> umm, a milling machine is stiffer
[05:09:26] <fenn> feeding faster
[05:09:33] <fenn> increasing chipload
[05:09:37] <SWPadnos> yes - faster was way easier
[05:09:42] <SWPadnos> up to a point
[05:11:45] <Jymmm> Let me back up a bit and explain....
[05:14:36] <Jymmm> I bought an engraver bit to play around with. suppose to be around .002" chipload. ok I do the math, set the speed/feed and I get shitty results in some aluminum I have. Ok I play around drop with the feed by half each time. then play with the speed. no matter what combination I do and with max depth being .004" I still get shitt results and burrs around the evngraving. So I'm at the WTF now trying to understand.
[05:15:10] <SWPadnos> would that normally be used in a router, or an engraver?
[05:15:51] <Jymmm> it's 1/4" shank is all I know.
[05:16:00] <Jymmm> the mfg makes tooling for the CNC industry
[05:16:28] <SWPadnos> what's the tip angle?
[05:16:35] <Jymmm> 60 deg
[05:16:45] <SWPadnos> is that net, or per side?
[05:17:03] <jmkasunich> you using any cutting fluid/lube?
[05:17:06] <SWPadnos> (I don't know how they spec these things)
[05:17:14] <fenn> the alloy might just be a pain
[05:17:33] <SWPadnos> .004 is barely past the aluminum oxide (hard) layer
[05:17:52] <fenn> that too
[05:17:55] <Jymmm> https://www.onsrud.com/xpost search 37-03
[05:18:27] <Jymmm> sigh.... product click any, then the search box appears
[05:18:35] <SWPadnos> got it
[05:18:37] <fenn> bah screw that website
[05:18:47] <Jymmm> and thats the NEW website as of a week ago
[05:18:56] <SWPadnos> there's no datasheet
[05:19:00] <fenn> the NEW website is _always_ worse
[05:19:39] <Jymmm> 60 deg total .01" tip flat
[05:19:44] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:20:20] <SWPadnos> 60 degrees gives you an extra 0.002 in diameter, so the effective is 0.012
[05:20:33] <SWPadnos> what SFM were you using for your calculations
[05:20:35] <SWPadnos> ?
[05:21:01] <Jymmm> 80 40 20 IPM
[05:21:15] <SWPadnos> I mean cutter Surface Feet per Minute
[05:21:22] <Jymmm> ????
[05:21:35] <SWPadnos> that's step 1 in the calculations
[05:21:39] <Jymmm> chipload was .002" iirc
[05:21:56] <jmkasunich> RPM comes first, then chipload
[05:21:59] <jmkasunich> what is your rpm?
[05:22:11] <SWPadnos> RPM comes from SFM though
[05:22:30] <jmkasunich> right, I'm asking him what RPM he calculated
[05:22:33] <Jymmm> 8k 18k 25k
[05:22:48] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking there wasn't a calcualtion there ;)
[05:23:11] <Jymmm> When I explained I said I tried various combinations
[05:23:25] <jmkasunich> 33K RPM on a diameter of 0.012" gives about 100 SFM
[05:23:31] <jmkasunich> which is about as slow as you want to go
[05:23:48] <jmkasunich> if the tool is carbide, you probably want 300K RPM ;-/
[05:24:29] <SWPadnos> if you add collant / lubricant, even faster
[05:24:32] <SWPadnos> coolant
[05:24:43] <SWPadnos> (Tap Magic for aluminum is great, and even smells nice)
[05:24:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I'll ask you about the carbined comment in a sec, but in the onsrud catalog they have these threes formulas"
[05:24:55] <SWPadnos> https://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/ChipAluminum
[05:24:58] <jmkasunich> for a cutter that small, you probably don't want anywhere near 0.002 chipload
[05:25:25] <SWPadnos> it's a V cutter, 60 degree, 0.010 end face
[05:25:31] <SWPadnos> (not sure if you missed that)
[05:25:50] <jmkasunich> ok, so maybe
[05:25:53] <Jymmm> 1) ChipLoad = FeedRate / (RPM * # of cutting edges)
[05:26:12] <jmkasunich> that means 33K RPM = 66IPM for one flute, 132IPM for 2
[05:26:17] <Jymmm> 2) Feed Rate = RPM * # of cutting edges * chip load
[05:26:37] <Jymmm> 3) Speed (RPM) = Feed Rate / (#of cutting edges * chip load)
[05:26:51] <SWPadnos> those formulas are all correct, but they don't tell you anything about how to calculate the optimal RPM
[05:26:58] <jmkasunich> set your RPM as fast as it will go, put some tap magic or wd40 on the surface, and experiment with different feeds
[05:27:01] <SWPadnos> (they're the same formula, rearranged)
[05:27:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos No it s engraver bit
[05:27:13] <Jymmm> not a v tip router bit
[05:27:16] <jmkasunich> optimal in this case is as fast as it will go I suspect
[05:27:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos they have chipload charts in here
[05:28:26] <SWPadnos> but they still don't tell you how fast the cutter tooth is supposed to pass over the work
[05:28:32] <jmkasunich> chipload is secondary to speed and fluid IMO
[05:28:41] <jmkasunich> how fast can your spindle go?
[05:28:49] <Jymmm> jmkasunich 8K to 25K
[05:29:15] <fenn> i never really understood what the "best" SFM was and why
[05:29:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos #2 Iabove
[05:29:29] <SWPadnos> nope - that's not it
[05:29:33] <jmkasunich> ok, at 25K and with a cutting diameter of 0.012", your surface speed (at the outside) is 78.5 SFPM
[05:29:55] <jmkasunich> 100 SFM is considered normal for HSS steel tools cutting steel
[05:30:05] <jmkasunich> 200-300 for HSS tools on alum
[05:30:23] <jmkasunich> 500 or so for carbide on steel
[05:30:30] <jmkasunich> and 1000 or more for carbide on alum
[05:30:36] <SWPadnos> 2-3x for carbide, another 2x for the right fluids ...
[05:30:38] <jmkasunich> so no matter what you do you are too slow
[05:31:04] <Jymmm> Here
[05:31:05] <Jymmm> http://www.onsrud.com/pdf/NewProducts.pdf
[05:31:12] <Jymmm> 37-03 is what I have
[05:31:16] <jmkasunich> all you can do is set the spindle as fast as you can, put some fluid on there to prevent chip welding etc, and trial and error the feeds
[05:31:49] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, chipload and SFM (cutting speed) are not the same thing
[05:31:58] <jmkasunich> you can do math till your blue in the face, or you can go experiment
[05:32:01] <jmkasunich> your choice
[05:32:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos then explain what SFM is?
[05:32:22] <Jymmm> go look at the tool first then come back to me so were on the sam epage please.
[05:32:28] <SWPadnos> it's the speed at which the cutter actually cuts the work
[05:32:29] <jmkasunich> SFM is the speed at which the flute of the cutter moves thru the metal (rotation speed * circumference of the cutter)
[05:32:32] <SWPadnos> I looked at it already
[05:32:45] <jmkasunich> feed rate and chipload don't have a damned thing to do with SFM
[05:33:06] <jmkasunich> the only thing that matters for SFM is tool material, work material, and any fluid you might be using
[05:33:06] <Jymmm> well it's single flute then
[05:33:21] <SWPadnos> consider this - if you're sawing a piece of aluminum, how fast do you pull the saw?
[05:33:27] <jmkasunich> the number of flutes doesn't mean a damn thing either
[05:34:05] <fenn> wow jmk right on the nose with 300krpm
[05:34:11] <fenn> == 942 sfm
[05:34:15] <jmkasunich> trust me - spindle as fast as it will go, WD-40 or tap magic on the tool, try different feeds until you get good results
[05:34:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich so SFM has nothign todo with the article you had me read a few weeks ago?
[05:34:39] <jmkasunich> I have no idea what article that was
[05:34:47] <jmkasunich> I can't remember what I said a few days ago
[05:34:51] <Jymmm> jmkasunich something out of the archives
[05:34:57] <jmkasunich> oh, that
[05:34:58] <Jymmm> old news posting
[05:35:04] <jmkasunich> that is feed, not speed
[05:35:07] <jmkasunich> SFM is speed
[05:35:20] <jmkasunich> the first paragraph or two of the article talks about speed
[05:35:32] <jmkasunich> and the rest (the trial and error, go by ear part) is feed
[05:35:37] <Jymmm> it was long can only remember bottom line
[05:35:55] <jmkasunich> fsck, 12:30, and I have to catch a plane at 7am
[05:36:00] <jmkasunich> why am I still here?
[05:36:03] <SWPadnos> night jmk ;)
[05:36:04] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[05:36:06] <Jymmm> g'night jmkasunich
[05:36:17] <fenn> there goes one master procrastinator
[05:36:29] <Jymmm> no engraving machine is gonna be doing 300K rpm
[05:36:35] <fenn> why not?
[05:36:45] <Jymmm> fenn show m one that does
[05:37:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.chipblaster.com/Tech/MillDrillFS/Aluminum.htm
[05:37:47] <SWPadnos> note that for a given material, the SFM is constant, though the RPM and IPM change all over the place
[05:38:41] <SWPadnos> for a 0.004 depth, you could almost drag the engraving bit over the wrok with the spindle off
[05:38:44] <fenn> a dentist drill can do 300000
[05:38:46] <SWPadnos> work
[05:38:50] <Jymmm> and all the values were between what I tried combinations of too, but single flute.
[05:39:03] <Jymmm> fenn but that's not an engraving machine
[05:40:28] <Jymmm> Ok new hermes IS400 max rotation speed 20k
[05:40:47] <fenn> junk :)
[05:41:02] <Jymmm> fenn then you find better.
[05:41:03] <fenn> what is the actual maximum diameter?
[05:41:17] <fenn> the tip is .01 what is the width of cut
[05:41:44] <SWPadnos> .012, because it's 0.004 depth with 60deg angle
[05:42:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe it's a little more, cos(60) is 0.866, not 1/2 like the sin
[05:43:05] <Jymmm> Even this one is only 20,000 RPM --> http://www.gravograph.com/usa/Engraving%20Machines/IS6-7-8000.php
[05:43:07] <SWPadnos> no, wait - 2*cos(30) = 1, so it's 0.014
[05:43:38] <fenn> dunno what you're doing swp
[05:43:47] <Jymmm> So what I'm not getting is why do I have more RPM than these dedicate engraving machines, but getting shitty results.
[05:44:06] <SWPadnos> heh - trying to do trig in my head when I'm tired
[05:44:19] <SWPadnos> like the old saying "people shouldn't drink and derive"
[05:44:39] <fenn> tan(30)*2*.004 == fucking bc god dammit
[05:45:13] <cradek> 0.00461880215351701
[05:45:14] <fenn> christ who designed bc without any trig functions
[05:45:20] <fenn> and units fails me also
[05:45:21] <cradek> fenn: orpie
[05:45:31] <fenn> never heard of it
[05:45:33] <cradek> (assuming you like rpn)
[05:46:05] <fenn> and no, i hate rpn
[05:46:05] <SWPadnos> I think it's 2*sin(30) * depth = 0.004 + 0.010
[05:46:15] <cradek> not orpie then
[05:46:26] <SWPadnos> nope - I'm wrong
[05:46:44] <SWPadnos> ok, I can't do simple math in my head. time to go to bed.
[05:46:47] <Jymmm> ok I was mistaken.... max depth 0.422, making max width .0587
[05:46:56] <Jymmm> ok I was mistaken.... max depth 0.0422, making max width .0587
[05:47:05] <SWPadnos> good night guy
[05:47:07] <SWPadnos> s
[05:47:13] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[05:47:17] <Jymmm> nite SWP_Away
[05:47:28] <fenn> * fenn suffers the misery that is kcalc
[05:48:40] <fenn> ok diameter is .0487
[05:49:08] <Jymmm> .0587
[05:49:26] <fenn> tan(30)*2*.0422 is .0487
[05:49:52] <Jymmm> the CAM is telling me max width is .0587
[05:50:07] <Jymmm> (maybe a bug - who knows)
[05:50:09] <fenn> oh it's got a flat point
[05:50:13] <fenn> hrm
[05:50:15] <Jymmm> yes
[05:50:19] <fenn> sticky
[05:50:27] <Jymmm> .01 flat
[05:50:45] <fenn> that's where the extra .01 comes from then
[05:50:58] <Jymmm> k
[05:51:18] <Jymmm> gawd, onsrud makes nice tools but suck websites
[05:51:49] <fenn> tell them you'd love to shop with them but the website makes it impossible
[05:52:45] <Jymmm> not worth the trouble
[05:53:07] <fenn> why not? they might actually fix it
[05:54:09] <fenn> my browser just shows a blank white window
[05:59:48] <Jymmm> it's a large pdf
[06:00:53] <Jymmm> requires javascript too
[06:03:38] <fenn> onsrud.com is a flash animation
[06:03:39] <Jymmm> ok... .0587" @ 25K RPM = 384.19 SFPM
[06:05:13] <Jymmm> https://www.onsrud.com/oc/mydata/common/xDocs.nsf/0520a971a66adeffc12569ab003d8ce1/8625712c0079db06c1256ec200405fb6/xRichDesc1/0.49BE?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
[06:05:59] <fenn> i was really just whining more than anything
[10:39:33] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[12:11:46] <alex_joni> morning everyone
[12:12:16] <kevin> :)
[12:16:39] <kevin> the following is the error information:
[12:16:40] <kevin> g++ -o ../bin/inivar objects/libnml/inifile/inifile.o objects/libnml/inifile/inivar.o
[12:16:40] <kevin> /usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a(elf-init.oS)(.gnu.linkonce.t.__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx+0x0): In function `__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx':
[12:16:40] <kevin> : multiple definition of `__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx'
[12:16:40] <kevin> objects/libnml/inifile/inifile.o(.gnu.linkonce.t.__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx+0x0):libnml/inifile/inifile.cc:33: first defined here
[12:16:42] <kevin> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[12:16:44] <kevin> make: *** [../bin/inivar] error 1
[12:17:56] <kevin> I really don't know how to resolve thI really don't know how to resolve the error when I make emc2testing.e error when I make emc2testing.
[12:18:14] <kevin> Please help me,thanks
[12:34:15] <cradek> kevin: I think nobody has answered because we have no idea what's wrong
[12:34:26] <cradek> it looks like a problem with your compiler setup.
[12:34:42] <cradek> can you compile any other program?
[12:38:42] <cradek> you also don't say anything about your system configuration
[12:40:27] <kevin> thanks
[12:40:57] <kevin> my linux is debian ,rtlinux3.1 with kernel 2.4.16
[12:42:07] <kevin> and I use gcc-2.95 to complie kernel and rtlinux3.1
[12:42:40] <kevin> then I "ln -sf /usr/bin/gcc-3.3 /usr/bin/gcc"
[12:43:24] <kevin> and use gcc-3.3 and g++-3.3 to compile emc2testing
[12:43:34] <kevin> so do g++-3.3
[13:25:48] <jepler> kevin: see this message, and then the mailing list message it links to. Maybe upgrading binutils will fix the problem. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-09/msg01528.html
[13:27:21] <kevin> ok,thanks
[13:28:26] <kevin> I will go out for half hours
[13:33:16] <alex_joni> kevin: I think you need the same compiler for both the kernel and the modules for it, so compiling the kernel & rtlinux with 2.95 and emc2 with 3.3 will probably lead to problems :(
[13:52:05] <kevin_> alex_joni, we can not use gcc2.95 to complie emc2, so I choose gcc3.3(debian release)
[14:05:33] <alex_joni> yes, but you compiled the kernel with 2.95 if I understand it correctly
[14:05:49] <alex_joni> and they won't mix well, I'm not sure if it works (didn't try it..)
[14:07:44] <kevin_> yes,I compiled the kernel with 2.95
[14:09:47] <kevin_> because we need to use gcc2.95 (kernel gcc) to complie kernel 2.4.16 &rtlinux3.1
[14:11:16] <kevin_> I will try to use gcc4.0 to compile emc2 later
[14:11:43] <alex_joni> like I said, I don't know if you can mix compilers
[14:12:02] <alex_joni> but I know there have been some changes to the emc2 build process, so you can compile on older gcc's
[14:12:31] <alex_joni> try an update of the emc2 source, and try again with the 2.95
[14:12:44] <kevin_> ok
[14:14:50] <kevin_> but now this computer isn't the pc used to run emc2, so I will update it later
[14:14:57] <kevin_> thank you :)
[14:15:34] <alex_joni> kevin_: no problem
[14:16:37] <kevin_> I use "ln -sf /usr/bin/gcc-3.3 /usr/bin/gcc" to change gcc
[14:19:45] <CIA-8> 03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: Added more i18n support (msgcats)
[14:24:39] <CIA-8> 03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: Added border between picture and tree
[14:24:48] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:28:06] <Jymmm> Heh... almost had visitors into the office
[14:28:36] <Jymmm> all of the two winged kind
[14:44:12] <CIA-8> 03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: fixed path to .msg,..
[14:55:58] <Jymmm> Morning giacus
[15:06:27] <CIA-8> 03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: added msgcats for i18n
[15:16:33] <CIA-8> 03flo-h * 10emc2/src/po/de_rs274_err.po: fixed an error
[16:02:14] <les_w> morning
[16:03:20] <cradek> hi les
[16:03:49] <les_w> looking for the cheapest microcontroller out there
[16:03:58] <les_w> looks like about 30 cents
[16:04:06] <SWPadnos> what quantity?
[16:04:27] <les_w> well, gas ranges
[16:04:29] <les_w> big
[16:04:37] <les_w> 10,0000+
[16:04:42] <les_w> oops
[16:04:48] <les_w> 10,000
[16:04:49] <les_w> haha
[16:05:05] <SWPadnos> I don't think you'll get a 30c micro in that low a quantity
[16:05:40] <les_w> .038 quan 100 for an atmel 8 bit risc in digikey
[16:05:55] <SWPadnos> how much processing power do you need?
[16:06:08] <les_w> oops again .38
[16:06:12] <SWPadnos> an 8-pin ATTINY?
[16:06:17] <les_w> Ha I need more than it has
[16:06:27] <les_w> tone decoder
[16:07:14] <les_w> iK memory 8 MHz...no way
[16:07:55] <les_w> looks like mixed signal....
[16:08:04] <les_w> bring out the lm 2902s again
[16:08:25] <SWPadnos> tone decoder for an analog signal?
[16:08:35] <SWPadnos> (ie, analog into the micro)
[16:08:47] <les_w> eight pennies for a quad automotive under hood rated
[16:08:55] <les_w> swp: yeah
[16:09:04] <les_w> 4 tones
[16:09:11] <SWPadnos> I'm surprised that the tinys are that cheap - $0.28 in singles is great
[16:09:21] <les_w> yup
[16:09:26] <SWPadnos> oops - $0.28 in 95 qty
[16:09:59] <les_w> couldn't do an ultrasonic tone decoder though
[16:10:04] <les_w> I don't think
[16:10:41] <SWPadnos> it's only 2 MHz, but it may work if you only need to detect one of 4 tones
[16:10:57] <SWPadnos> it you need to control the frequency, then you'd need more power
[16:11:09] <les_w> nah just detect
[16:11:31] <SWPadnos> how far apart are the tones?
[16:11:32] <les_w> have to compare that to 4 op amps with twin T or similar
[16:12:03] <les_w> tones will be quite far apart.. 12 kHz or so
[16:12:09] <les_w> all below 100 kHz
[16:12:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:12:32] <SWPadnos> that may be doable with a tiny. one input only?
[16:12:42] <les_w> yeah
[16:13:00] <SWPadnos> what does it do when it detects (or doesn't detect) a valid tone?
[16:13:01] <les_w> can you write tiny code for this?
[16:13:04] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:13:15] <les_w> you may have a job here
[16:13:21] <SWPadnos> ok by me ;)
[16:13:25] <les_w> heh
[16:13:33] <les_w> this is a very big project
[16:13:57] <SWPadnos> I like big projects
[17:16:03] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[17:29:38] <Jymmm> hey les_w
[18:00:33] <les_w> what a lunch I had. Filet mignon left over from yesterday!
[18:00:50] <les_w> cooked on cherry wood.
[18:01:43] <les_w> oh, SWP...I gotta sell them +125c max or we are dead in the water here.
[18:07:13] <Jymmm> hey les_w
[18:09:03] <anonimasu> FASDFAhm
[18:09:58] <anonimasu> hi..
[18:15:07] <Jymmm> lol
[18:15:38] <anonimasu> I got the mill togther today
[18:15:39] <anonimasu> :)
[18:15:55] <anonimasu> not the cnc one yet, but I can use my regular tooling now
[18:18:09] <Jymmm> ah, cool. what was stopping you before?
[18:20:08] <anonimasu> the spindle didnt fit the machine
[18:20:28] <Jymmm> you made your own mill?
[18:20:40] <anonimasu> no..
[18:22:20] <anonimasu> I made a adaptor for the horizontal spindle..
[18:22:36] <anonimasu> so I could skip using the drill spindle
[18:23:03] <Jymmm> oh your retrofitting a cheap mill
[18:23:30] <anonimasu> heh.. I saw one similar for 5000eur..
[18:23:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:25:56] <Jymmm> what was different; bearings?
[18:26:25] <anonimasu> it were 5 years newer..
[18:27:34] <Jymmm> besides age I mean
[18:27:52] <anonimasu> nothing..
[18:28:01] <anonimasu> they sell around there..
[18:28:12] <Jymmm> Basiclly what did you change to turn it from a drill spindle to a mill spindle
[18:28:20] <fenn> someone already made the rapid chocolate prototyper.. http://www.instructables.com/ex/i/961360D260131028A786001143E7E506/
[18:28:27] <fenn> i'm so bummed
[18:28:43] <anonimasu> I made a adaptor for the milling head from another mill(cousin) to mount to it..
[18:29:17] <anonimasu> cousin/another schaublin of compareable size
[18:29:59] <anonimasu> http://www.anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/Schaublin13.html
[18:39:32] <Jymmm> oh a minimill..
[18:39:56] <anonimasu> 8mm
[18:40:09] <anonimasu> toolroom mill..
[18:40:22] <Jymmm> nfc, but it's ok
[18:40:40] <anonimasu> heh..
[18:49:26] <Jymmm> What I was asking i... what makes a mill spindle not a drill soindle (generically)
[18:49:37] <Jymmm> less the typos
[18:52:07] <anonimasu> well, smaller tooling..
[18:52:27] <anonimasu> and less stability and high internal gearing
[18:56:38] <anonimasu> that's what differs them..
[19:07:48] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[19:14:03] <fenn> the bearings of a drill spindle are more angled for thrust loads than side loads
[19:18:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:48:37] <Jymmm> anything else?
[19:49:26] <alex_joni> hello
[19:49:35] <Jymmm> G'Night alex_joni
[19:50:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni howdy!
[19:51:19] <alex_joni> howdy Jymmm
[19:51:24] <alex_joni> logger_aj: bookmark
[19:51:24] <alex_joni> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-03-27#T19-51-24
[20:07:47] <jepler> wow, this looks like total junk:
[20:08:18] <jepler> "QBasic software allows sample rates up to 600+ Hz (depending on the clock speed of your PC's cpu)."
[20:16:39] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:16:49] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is exhausted
[20:16:52] <Jymmm> hey now, no mocking my QBASIC =)
[20:17:14] <robin_sz> peek?
[20:17:19] <robin_sz> poke?
[20:17:36] <Jymmm> 10 LPRINT CHR$(12) 20 GOTO 10
[20:18:32] <robin_sz> second language I learnt that was .. at the age of 15
[20:19:01] <Jymmm> LOL... My very first CNC experiance and didn't know it 20+ years ago.... FORMFEEDING the highspeed dotmatirx printers till the tray of paper emptied (jogging)
[20:20:31] <robin_sz> heh
[20:21:29] <robin_sz> there was a POKE on the commodore PET that made smoke come out
[20:22:25] <Jymmm> robin_sz: BTW... the stated chipload for that was .006-.006, but I talked to the folks at Onsrud this morning and they're thinking the tip width is about the limit on the depth.
[20:22:34] <Jymmm> robin_sz ouch
[20:22:45] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_poke
[20:23:24] <robin_sz> yeah, width = depth is usually as deep as you want to do
[20:23:44] <robin_sz> depth = width/2 is a safe option
[20:24:08] <Jymmm> robin_sz well it being an engraving tool you would think you'ld want a beveled wall
[20:24:27] <anonimasu> that sounds right
[20:24:37] <Jymmm> anyhow... gonna try that later and see how it does.
[20:28:01] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[20:38:37] <Jymmm> Anyone know long a small pkg take to go from HK to US by chance?
[20:39:56] <anonimasu> hm depends entirely on how you ship it
[20:40:07] <anonimasu> air or sea?
[20:40:21] <Jymmm> hk post
[20:40:41] <anonimasu> hm no idea what that is..
[20:41:08] <Jymmm> me neither
[20:50:49] <Jymmm> jepler: Many, that is pretty bad for so many reasons.... driving the motors at 12VDC, power resistors, then the statement "Motors run smoothly without resonance in the full operational range". That alone would turn me away.
[20:50:56] <Jymmm> s/many/man/
[20:52:57] <Jymmm> Hand carved, but awefully purrrrrrty... http://www.chipcarving.com/gallery.htm
[20:56:39] <chinamill> Is it possible to ad your own M-codes to EMC2?
[20:57:16] <cradek> yes, you can make a program or shell script run when you use an M code
[20:57:32] <cradek> there are examples M101 and M102 already installed I think
[20:59:25] <chinamill> ok, I guess I'll have a look in the emc1 documentation then.
[21:00:32] <cradek> chinamill: look in /usr/share/emc/ncfiles/M101
[21:00:44] <cradek> chinamill: it works in a very simple way
[21:00:50] <chinamill> ok
[21:06:08] <chinamill> craked: the M102 example seems to be very powerful
[21:06:40] <cradek> good, I hope it helps you
[21:11:14] <jepler> cradek: ~jepler/to.py
[21:11:32] <jepler> (just a mock-up, it doesn't actually do anything)
[21:27:14] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: tabbed widget save is still broken.
[21:28:46] <rayh> m103 the ultimate bug. sudo cd / ; rm -rf
[21:29:14] <alex_joni> doesn't work on ubuntu anymore ;)
[21:29:24] <alex_joni> you need to type a passwd after sudo now
[21:29:34] <alex_joni> at least with the default security settings
[21:29:37] <rayh> Oh I defeated that already.
[21:30:03] <alex_joni> I said default, if you change that.. it's your problem :)
[21:30:40] <rayh> da fault is all mine.
[21:30:47] <alex_joni> ;-)
[21:32:39] <giacus> hello
[21:33:03] <giacus> alex_joni: what you used to get the mosaic image on your homepage ?
[21:33:13] <giacus> any plugin ?
[21:33:53] <giacus> I'm playng around this: http://www.kirchgessner.net/photo-mosaic.html
[21:34:00] <giacus> its cool :P
[21:36:50] <alex_joni> giacus: photoshop
[21:36:54] <alex_joni> but that was ages ago
[21:37:17] <giacus> oh, ok..
[21:37:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[21:37:21] <alex_joni> night all
[21:37:25] <giacus> night alex_joni
[21:37:33] <rayh> See you alex
[21:37:48] <rayh> Lots of progress today.
[21:38:03] <alex_joni> maybe yours.. I didn't do anything the whole day :(
[21:38:10] <alex_joni> was feeling bad
[21:38:52] <Jymmm> nite alex_joni
[21:41:30] <cradek> jepler: for some reason I'm not getting depend.sh from cvs. did you remove it?
[21:41:54] <jepler> cradek: depend.sh <= depend.sh.in (even though it doesn't actually have any @SUB@s anymore)
[21:42:02] <cradek> oh, duh
[21:42:08] <cradek> sorry
[21:43:14] <jepler> cradek: what did you think of 'to.py'?
[21:46:28] <cradek> jepler: it looks just like Snap Off or whatever you called it
[21:46:44] <jepler> cradek: yes
[21:46:45] <cradek> seems like a simple enough solution I guess
[21:47:03] <jepler> it just seems kinda clunky
[21:47:05] <cradek> I'm not sure I like it a lot, but when in doubt, do the simplest thing
[21:47:11] <cradek> yeah
[21:47:14] <jepler> I'm also not sure where to invoke it from
[21:47:23] <jepler> does it go on our poorly-organized menu under "Edit"?
[21:47:44] <cradek> Do you still have the notes from last time we decided to clean up the menus?
[21:48:31] <jepler> mmmmmm not sure
[21:49:51] <cradek> yay, I see the beginnings of tabs in emccalib, that will be much nicer
[21:50:35] <jepler> oh good
[21:53:47] <Jymmm> dont forget the CTROL+PGUP/PGDN please =)
[21:53:53] <Jymmm> -O
[21:54:56] <jepler> Jymmm: what should that do?
[21:56:38] <Jymmm> jepler that's the kybd commands to switch tabs; CTRL+PGDN to switch to the next right tab, CTRL+PGUP to switch to the next left tab
[21:57:03] <jepler> Jymmm: I've always used ctrl-tab; I've never heard of those as shortcuts to do the same
[21:57:17] <Jymmm> CTRL+TAB is to switch windows in an app
[21:57:27] <Jymmm> err to switch applications
[21:57:32] <giacus> :)
[21:57:46] <Jymmm> CTRL+SHIFT+TAB and CTRL+TAB
[21:57:58] <jepler> ALT+TAB switches applications
[21:58:16] <Jymmm> jepler M$, Mozilla, and FF all use the CTRL+PGUP/DN for switching tabs
[21:58:29] <jepler> no, they all use ctrl-tab
[21:58:40] <cradek> mine seems to do both
[21:58:46] <jepler> am I speaking to the real Jymmm or the mirror-universe one?
[21:58:48] <Jymmm> jepler: Yourright, I said it correctly the first time, was thingking of something else
[21:58:50] <jepler> with a goatee?
[22:00:02] <jepler> This reference only mentions CTRL+TAB, not PGUP/PGDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/appxB.asp
[22:00:05] <Jymmm> jepler: Try it in Mozilla or FF
[22:00:31] <jepler> CTRL+TAB Display next tabbed page or child window (MDI)
[22:01:48] <jepler> yeah, CTRL+PGDN also works in my FF
[22:02:30] <Jymmm> CTRL+TAB usually switchs between windows in the same application, But when you have multiple windows and tabs, that's when the CTRL+PGDN/UP comes into play
[22:03:29] <giacus> Jymmm: do you like keyboard control ?
[22:03:43] <jepler> I certainly like keyboard control
[22:03:48] <giacus> Ion wm would be great for that
[22:04:22] <Jymmm> giacus VERY much so. I can do everything via kybd, except drag. (well I can do that too, but cumbersome)
[22:05:25] <giacus> I like it because its very custoizable for that
[22:05:32] <giacus> emacs as editor too
[22:05:50] <giacus> veri nice keyboard control
[22:07:59] <giacus> I had some issue at the begin with irssi the irc client
[22:08:10] <giacus> where alt was already used by ion
[22:08:16] <giacus> replaced by esc
[22:08:31] <giacus> but its simple to map new keys
[22:08:49] <giacus> and, some other issue using gimp
[22:09:03] <giacus> opening lot of windows :(
[22:09:51] <giacus> for remainder I got a very nice keyboard control everywhere
[22:14:45] <anonimasu> hm
[22:14:48] <anonimasu> *aywns*
[22:15:14] <Jymmm> jepler: It's mentioned at the bottom of this page, but has been around since Windows95 that *I* know of/have used. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/UxGuide/UXGuide/Controls/tabs.asp
[22:18:28] <Jymmm> Thanks jepler! Making me search thru that made me find a kybd cmd that got changed after Win3.10 woo hoo!!!
[22:19:23] <anonimasu> night all
[22:19:29] <Jymmm> nite anonimasu
[22:30:28] <dmessier> whats with this new linux XP???
[22:30:48] <giacus> enterprise ?
[22:30:52] <giacus> :P
[22:31:11] <dmessier> http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/linux-xp.html
[22:31:54] <dmessier> http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/linuxxp/desktop
[22:32:49] <giacus> http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/
[22:33:02] <giacus> bad for bad .. :)
[22:34:09] <giacus> haha
[22:34:19] <giacus> dmessier: funny
[22:34:52] <dmessier> isnt it..
[22:38:18] <giacus> oh ..
[22:38:33] <giacus> alex is working for they ?
[22:38:40] <giacus> hehe
[22:39:07] <giacus> look at Developers Quote section
[22:41:12] <dmessier> of which??
[22:41:26] <giacus> weird ..
[22:41:28] <giacus> nothing
[22:41:37] <giacus> just the similar name ..
[22:41:45] <giacus> :)
[22:42:50] <dmessier> 1st was a joke from 2000.... tuxmzchines iIS a russian distro
[22:43:41] <dmessier> http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/linuxxp/gimp
[22:45:12] <fenn> i hope they get sued
[22:45:16] <dmessier> a guy at work asked me about this today...
[22:45:39] <dmessier> i knew NOTHING of it
[22:47:37] <dmessier> seems like any BDI could pull this off.. with some tweakin'
[22:48:19] <dmessier> http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-xp/...... go figure
[22:51:07] <giacus> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linuxxp
[22:52:20] <dmessier> yeah i seen that... in RU
[22:53:41] <dmessier> my ru is rusty..
[23:10:50] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: Fixed typo and removed msgcat in tk_getFilexx processes.
[23:14:38] <giacus> wow
[23:15:01] <giacus> * giacus discovered OpenCV :P
[23:16:17] <giacus> found the eye for the robot :))
[23:20:26] <Jymmm> http://www.craigslist.org/sby/zip/145696954.html
[23:22:22] <dmessier> Jymmm your a nut
[23:22:30] <Jymmm> ?
[23:22:37] <Jymmm> Not my ad
[23:29:23] <Jymmm> Nice SS box http://www.craigslist.org/sby/tls/145347118.html
[23:33:35] <dmessier> si...500 canuck bucks you ship it
[23:34:06] <Jymmm> lol
[23:35:05] <Jymmm> freight alone would take almsot that much
[23:35:48] <dmessier> whats your point??
[23:36:16] <Jymmm> ok, send the $500 CAD, and I'll tell you
[23:36:24] <dmessier> they ship arts for chevrolets to Oshawa daily for pennies a pc
[23:36:43] <dmessier> parts
[23:40:10] <Jymmm> Besides, I dont ship international anymore
[23:58:30] <giacus> night